WEBVTT - Do objects or experiences make us happier? 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:04.040 Welcome to you stuff you should know from House stuff 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:12.680 Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.079 Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, Jerry's here, 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:18.960 and uh, stuff you should know. We've got the eighteen 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:24.319 Yeah in the house, not the Chuck Holograham. It's not 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:29.600 guest producers mad or Noel. It's not pocket Josh, not 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:32.280 pocket Josh, although I did have a pocket Josh on me. 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:37.040 So he's here, He's always here. That's a voodoo doll. No, 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:40.120 it's not. It's clearly a voodoo doll. That's my hair. 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:45.600 I recognize. How's that back pain treating you? Hurt so bad? Uh? 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:48.800 How's it going pretty good except for the back pain. Well, 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:51.640 let me just massize your little pocket Josh. I think 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:56.400 the touch me, Chuck. I'm excited about this one. Our 0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:01.240 ongoing series on happiness. Yeah, we've covered it with the 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.640 Bhutan Yeah, a Gross National Happiness, and then we did 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:09.080 our audiobook All about Happiness, super Stuff Guide to Happiness, 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.119 and all that was I guess a hold over from 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:15.959 was it right before or right after the financial global 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:19.440 financial collapse? M I feel like it was sort of 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:22.920 in the midst of okay, because I think what it 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.360 was was the world got cocky, especially the developed world. 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:30.040 Sure like, hey, things are going so well, We're all rich, 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:34.920 everybody's pretty happy. We're we're at war with not one 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:38.040 but two countries at once. Look at us, go um, 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:41.319 let's start talking about happiness and what makes us happy. 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:43.959 Let's start blogs about how we try to be happy 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.480 and enter it in once a day every day and 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.120 then get a book deal out of it. Let's just 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:53.840 think about happiness, happiness, happiness, happiness. Well, a few years on, 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.840 there's been some changes over time. Everybody said, people don't 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:00.840 talk about happiness anymore. Like there is a little while 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:04.440 where there was a period basically from my impression about 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:08.919 two thousand five to two thousand nine, where you could 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:14.400 get substantial grants to conduct research into the nature of happiness, 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:18.960 to quantify happiness, what makes people happy, what makes people unhappy, 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:22.600 how to make people happier? Um. And there was an 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:28.360 offshoot of psychology called positive psychology that we talked about, 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:32.880 the super stub guided happiness that said, we're good at 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:42.480 diagnosing um maladies, which physical maladies, no like problems, psychological problems, 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:47.040 but we're terrible at um how to make people happier. 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.640 So hence now we're going to have something called positive psychology, 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:54.040 which appears to have fallen by the wayside um. Yeah, 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:57.519 it's all negative psychology. Well, psychology itself as a field 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:01.160 is under tremendous amount of attack, and positive psychology. I 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.079 think they gave the chance to retreat. They're like, look, 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:08.600 you're you're pretty easy target. You should probably go. This 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:12.040 isn't even a real thing. I don't know. Maybe it 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:14.280 was a valiant attempt. I think it just came in 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:17.920 at the wrong time. But the the the point is, 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:21.639 if you look up happiness now, you will notice, like 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.639 just about everything cuts off. In two thousand nine, I 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.800 did notice that actually American doesn't care about being happy anymore, 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:30.720 or maybe they just hanging on studied and learned everything 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:32.360 they need to know, and we're like, all right, here 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:34.000 we are. Well, you know what, it's funny that you 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.800 say that, because if that's true and you're you could 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:43.200 be right, that represents them possibly the shortest amount of 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:46.880 time any subject has ever been studied. No, really, because 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:51.800 it started and what makes people happy? And maybe I 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:54.720 think two thousand three I read I read a study, 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.440 and it was about how this was one of the 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:00.560 first studies to ever try to figure out what makes 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.800 people happy. So then this field of study existed from 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.880 like two thousand three to two thousand nine, and they 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:08.560 were saying that the reason that this would be the 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:11.920 first studies because it's been so accepted for so many 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:18.440 years ever since. Hume the philosopher Hume, David Hume, Robert Hume, 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:21.160 the Scottish philosopher is one of my favorites. Just if 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:23.240 you're on Jeopardy, you could just say hum hum, We'll 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:26.720 go with hum um. Who is hum if you're on 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.160 Jeopardy he was the Scottish philosopher. No, I'm just had 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:33.239 to phrase it, Okay, I'm just teasing um, he said. 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:35.960 He was one of the first people to mention this 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:40.640 concept of what makes people happy insofar as what we're 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:45.520 talking about today, which is does an object make you happier? 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:49.160 Or does an experience make you happier? Yeah, I think 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:52.360 they've done like the lottery studies before two thousand four, 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:57.760 like if lottery winners, But um, that's a pretty specialized study. Yes, 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:01.000 So to my point is to try to honify happiness, 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:05.160 that kind of thing and really investigated. But it started 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:07.520 in the early two thousands, that ended by the mid 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:11.159 two thousand, the first decade of the tea. Well, while 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.720 I'm reading all these studies, I'm looking oh seven oh 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:19.000 eight oh four, Yeah, very keen observation, and I can't 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:21.080 quite figure out. I mean, obviously, I think the Great 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:24.880 Recession is almost entirely responsible for that falling to the wayside. 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:30.680 But if you look still today, there's there are still 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.679 related studies. It's just not happiness studies. Yeah, I found 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:36.760 when I was reading this, I disagreed with a lot 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:41.640 of these findings and studies. They didn't seem fully fleshed out, 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:44.120 did they. Well, for instance, we'll go ahead and start 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:48.200 with this supposed fact. Researchers have done some studying and 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:53.080 they have pinned down how long a material object can 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:55.760 will make you happy, and they say between six and 0:05:55.800 --> 0:06:00.039 twelve weeks, then you get bored with it. Basically, I 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.840 just don't know about that because it wholly to me, 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.760 it wholly depends on what the object is. That's something 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:11.880 that gives you ongoing pleasure, like a guitar, let's say, yeah, 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:15.359 because that is also an experience an object. But like 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:17.560 I will love my guitars until I die because I 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:20.120 play them and enjoy it and play them with my friends. 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:22.960 You know. Yeah, And what you're talking about the gift 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:28.840 that keeps giving right exactly, that's called um uh, active engagement. 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:33.520 It is a It is a purchase. And when we 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.320 say purchase, we're not talking about necessarily just an object, 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:38.120 which we'll talk about in a little bit. You can 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.120 also you purchase experiences as well. In fact, they say 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.200 that's the way to go, right. So there's a happiness purchase, 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:47.640 is what we're saying. And your guitar that you purchased, 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:51.080 that's an object, but you purchased it, but it's making 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:52.880 you happy, you know, over and over and over again. 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:56.359 The reason why is because you become actively engaged in 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:59.640 an active engagement in anything that is positive or that 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:02.640 makes you happy can continue to make you happy for 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:07.000 longer than say another object that doesn't actively engage you, 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:09.120 Like a pair of shoes that you wanted really really 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:12.040 bad and then got and then like sit in your closets, 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.920 you don't wear them anymore because after well, you may 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.000 still wear them, but you're wearing them as shoes. You're 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.800 not wearing them like I'm I'm the King of Rotterdamn 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.680 here and check out my shoes. You know that that 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:29.000 kind of thing that lacks active engagement, that lacks social interaction, 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:32.080 and that lacks exercise. And those are the three, the 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:35.760 big three things that you can buy objects wise that 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:40.000 kind of sit outside of that six to twelve week Um, 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:45.560 happiness adaptation is what it's called. Um. So, yeah, you 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:47.400 kind of nailed it right there with the guitar. It's 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:50.680 not just guitar. Video games are another good example. Yeah, 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:53.360 like you buy your PS three and you may get 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:55.640 sick of some of the games, but they're always releasing 0:07:55.680 --> 0:08:00.520 new games, right. Um, if you bought a um, a 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:04.080 language module, you learn a language or something, you know, 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:06.840 I mean like it's you're something that actively engage you, 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:09.560 something that that you use for exercise, or something that 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:14.520 leads to social interaction. Are the three object types that 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:16.760 make you happier longer? Well, that makes me feel better 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.840 than and um the whole six or twelve weeks though, 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:24.440 whether that's a an accurate number not the chuck um. 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.240 Remember we talked about the hedonic treadmill. It's evidence of 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:32.320 the hedonic treadmill. That's just a thing called um hedonic adaptation, 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.560 and that is that something that makes you happy isn't 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:40.080 gonna make you happy forever. Something you've purchased pretty much, 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:45.640 whatever it is, you're going to eventually subsume it into 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.559 your everyday life. You're gonna end up taking it for granted, basically, 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:53.160 is another way to put it. How long, how short 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.040 that happens, or how long that happens is um. It 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:58.320 definitely differs depending on the type, and we'll talk about 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:02.080 the type in the minute. But what people end up 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:06.240 getting on once once an object stop making stops making 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.280 them happy, they still want to be happy. So they 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:11.360 end up on the hedonic treadmill and buy another pair 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:14.199 of shoes, and then another, and then another and then another. 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:17.840 And you end up just trying to keep pace, buying 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:22.160 all this stuff, accumulating all of this material stuff, and 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:26.280 it's just kind of keeping you at a a steady 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:31.080 pace of happiness without any kind of real enrichment. And 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:35.600 that's the hedonic treadmill. Yeah, and that's materialism UM. Which 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:39.400 they've done studies on materialism. There was one by these 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.400 dudes Chaplain and John in two thousand seven where they 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.920 linked it to low self esteem generally from childhood, Like 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.160 you're sort of always trying to gain your self esteem 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:54.040 through material objects. Uh. They've linked it to narcissism. Yeah, 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.400 people who try to build themselves like up through having 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:01.600 you know, fancy things and showing them off. Yeah. And 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.040 there's the I mean, that's that is a real um 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:10.200 technique that people use to establish their identities, established their 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:14.800 worth to others. And it's a ironically, it's a cheap 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.679 and easy way to do it. It may be very 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.120 expensive dollar wise, but you don't have to put a 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.680 tremendous amount of thought or effort into it. You just 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:28.560 go by the most expensive, most obvious, uh obviously expensive 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:31.560 item you can and wear it out and broadcast it 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:34.200 and get your sense of self worth from that. So 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:36.920 it is very shallow thing materialism. I think everybody kind 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:40.000 of knows that intuitively, but it's been studied, you know, 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.120 like it it is linked to all these kind of 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:46.040 um personality disorders. There's a guy named Russ Belk who's 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:47.880 a marketing researcher, and he was the first one to 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:52.559 really research materialism on the Belk Chain of Stars, I wonder, 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:55.400 and he uh, he found it to be a character 0:10:55.480 --> 0:11:02.960 trait marked by envy, non generosity, and possessiveness. Yeah, materialism 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:04.920 is so hard to define for me though, because it's 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:08.680 like a guitar is a material object and a nice 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:14.160 guitar is. I don't know. I definitely not materialistic, I 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.560 don't think, but I want a nice guitar because it 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.760 sounds awesome, it looks cool. But I think that that's 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:23.040 why like Belk and Chaplain and John went to the 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.800 trouble of like kind of investigating it. It's like, do 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:31.199 you do you have like a clinically flawed personality? Uh, 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:36.760 that's based on your desire for material objects. Yeah, but 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:39.560 see that, like it's all personal. Like I might think 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:42.320 it's material to go out and buy a pair of 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.400 eight hundred dollar shoes, but the person might get a 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:47.760 lot of joy out of those shoes, and say, I 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:49.600 think it's stupid to go pay a thousand dollars for 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:54.000 a guitar. You know, Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:55.840 I don't know what I'm saying. You don't know. I mean, 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:58.600 I think you raise a good point, and it's it's 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:03.959 valid because there that the research isn't that deep. I mean, 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:07.840 you could be exactly right, and I think it's subject yes. 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.640 And not only is this whole you know, the finding subjective, 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.440 the reportings are subjective to Like there's a study in 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:18.400 in San Francisco, UM in two thousand nine. The last 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:20.719 year that happiness was ever studied, the last year of 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:25.480 happiness mattered m and basically this uh, this group had 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:29.360 a hundred and fifty four college students, it's pretty small 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:31.680 fill out a survey. They said that we want you 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:35.600 to pick um. We want you to write down a 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:39.120 little bit about an object that you purchased to make 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.440 you happy in the last three months, or an experience 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:44.760 that made you happy in the last three months that 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:48.800 you purchased. Yes, which is important to distinguish that, right, 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.520 because you think you're gonna have free experiences too, you can, yeah, 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:56.920 and we'll get to that. But the college students um 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:01.520 self reported that the at the time of the purchase, 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:06.280 the experiences made them happier, and the happiness lasted longer 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:10.400 than the ones who reported an object made them happy. Yeah. 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:16.200 I mean every study pretty much confirms experiences over material objects. Yes. 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:20.520 My point is it was self reported, so it's subjective 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:22.040 right out of the gate, and that's the problem with 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.360 studying things like happiness. It's it's an emotion which is subjective. 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:30.440 And then it was also a small sample of college students, um, 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:34.280 homogeneous group and what do they know? Not they'ren't money 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:37.920 for anything now there, But there's this UM acronym for 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:43.040 college for studies like that. It's weird. It's Western educated, 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:50.120 uh something rich and democratic. Yeah, I can't remember what 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.679 the eye but weird it's it's and it's saying like 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.080 there's a lot of studies out there that people rely 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.040 on that are weird that the population sample are like 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:02.640 eighteen to twenty one year old, right, you know, fairly 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:05.200 well off western kids, right, Like, what does that really 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.360 tell us? Yeah? Yeah, so um, this is an example 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.000 of that. I saw another study that thought was interesting. 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:14.200 As far as objects go, um, Like, like we said, 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:16.920 across the board, it's they pretty much have said experiences 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.160 purchased or free mean more to someone in the long 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:22.840 run than an object. But um, when it comes to 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.080 spending on objects, this one study did find that spending 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:30.400 on others across the board, even on an object, is 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:36.360 brings more happiness than spending on yourself for an object. Yeah. Um, 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.880 And in fact, uh, people were assigned to spend money 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.960 and one of these studies, and they experienced greater happiness. 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:46.560 And people assigned to spend money on themselves, like here's 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.000 a hundred dollars go by yourself something nice, or here's 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.480 a hundred bucks go by someone else something nice. People 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.960 were happier that bought something for someone else, which was interesting. 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.720 And that's you're saying, that's like the case with objects 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.800 and experiences as well. I think that was just objects, 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:02.280 but I would say it probably holds true for experience, 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.520 Like you takes someone out to dinner, you feel good 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:07.040 about it. So what you what you have there is 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:11.200 you're spending on another person. It's there. It's fostering social interaction, 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.880 which is another key huge and it's an experience. Yeah, 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:17.760 pretty much like you couldn't get happier than that. Yeah, 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:19.600 the social thing is kind of the key to all 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:24.680 of this, they say, because generally your experience happiness is 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:28.080 usually not alone, like you'll go to a concert with 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.000 someone or to dinner with someone. But um, but not 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.960 always right and not always is a pretty good little 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:40.000 buzz term for this part of the podcast, because um, 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:44.920 there's also research that shows that objects can bring more 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.520 happiness than experiences, depending on the experience. Like for a 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:52.440 long time, the literature just basically said experiences make you 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:56.680 happier than objects. It's exactly. And these researchers found that 0:15:56.800 --> 0:16:01.320 um a an unhappy experience, Yeah, especially one that was 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.080 meant to be happy. Like let's say you want on 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:05.920 a cruise or you went on a vacation and it 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:11.240 just sucked like that. That compared to an object that's 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.440 supposed to make you happy, that object is gonna beat 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:17.400 that experience and you're gonna have that bad memory of 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:21.360 the experience longer too. Yeah. You know what else I 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:23.520 think I haven't seen pointed out is you can't you 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.440 can't get your money back on a bad dinner and play. Yeah, 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:29.160 that's true. But if you get an object, you know, 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:33.080 like this thinks you can usually return that unless you 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:36.320 took a bite out of it already. Yeah, this is 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.240 a good way to say it. But you can't, you 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:39.800 know what I'm saying, Like you take a vacation that 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.400 ends up being a disaster, I would be more upset 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:44.960 about that because it's like you've lost your money, You're 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:47.200 gonna have this bad memory. But if you buy some 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:49.560 stupid thing. You can like just resell it or on 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:53.480 Craig Lester send it back, right. And um, so that's 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:59.760 that's one distinction between materials, I guess objects and experiences. Yeah. Um, 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:01.600 and we should give a shout out to start here. 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:07.800 Who start sart Oh? Yeah, John Paul Sartra, the philosopher 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.000 um who is kind of credited with really introducing this 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.920 concept or codifying it into the mainstream. To start, there 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.000 were three paths to happiness, are three types of happiness. 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:23.520 There was um, having, doing and being and being we're 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:27.440 not even talking about in this one, but having and doing, um, 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:33.200 materialism and experientialism um start in the fifties. I think, 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.240 uh just kind of introduce us into the literature, and 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:40.479 that ultimately is what kicked off the this kind of 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:44.640 study into which one is better, which one makes you happier? Yeah? 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.520 And I like how you you wrote this, right. I 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:48.560 like how you point out about Buddhism, how they feel 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:51.680 that material objects actually get in the way of happiness. 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.359 Not only may they not bring you happiness, but they 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.160 will prevent it. Sure. And it's not just Buddhism, it's 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:01.800 UM for centuries. It's just basically been accepted that an 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:07.720 object is less desirable if you're seeking happiness than an experience, 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:14.199 and it's that's why the researchers were saying, Um, you know, 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.040 we're one of the first studies to to conduct and 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:20.960 an investigation into this because it's just been generally accepted 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:25.240 that that's the case, but no one knew exactly why. 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:27.520 So now we've kind of reached the why parts. And 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.400 one of the things you said is, um, you can't 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.200 take an experience back. All right, hold on to that thought. 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:35.080 Let's take a quick message break and we'll get back 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:40.160 with the why. Chuck. I don't know if you've heard 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:41.960 this or not, but the cost of a stamp just 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:45.000 went up to cents, but not if you have stamps 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:48.040 dot Com. Buddy, Oh yeah, yeah. With stamps dot Com 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.000 you'll pay less for postage than you would at the 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:54.000 post office for first class mail, Priority Priority Express mail 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:58.040 packages and more. Well, buddy, it's awesome and convenient, super 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:00.320 easy to use with stamps dot Com and buy and 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.600 print discounted stamps, shipping labels, and more using your own 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:05.800 printer and computer right there at home. And not only 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.280 will you save money with stamps dot Com, chuckers by 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:11.440 not paying full price for postage. 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That's right, so don't wait. 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.080 Go to stamps dot com before you do anything else. 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:39.040 Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:41.520 and type an S t U F F that Stamps 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:49.840 dot Com enter stuff. Okay, So why well, um, you 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:54.360 mentioned that objects. Uh, you can take an object back, 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:58.360 you can't take an experience back. One of the big 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:03.600 differences that researchers came up with is that with experiences 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.639 you can because you can't take them back. They're kind 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:13.320 of esoteric. They're also more subject to revision. Right, so 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:15.919 you can you can think back to an experience and 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:20.720 over time, but stopped pump it up, alter it slightly, um, 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.560 make it more meaningful, whatever. Um, you're just kind of 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:27.720 adding to it. You remember when we did that thing 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:30.760 on memory, We research memory, and it's like every time 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:32.919 you bring up memory, you kind of add to it. 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:35.280 When you store it away, it's different, it's altered in 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:38.959 one way. Well, what you're remembering an experience, you're not 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:41.440 remembering an object because you have the object in your 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:43.440 hand and you're shaking it and you're like, why don't 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:45.919 you make me happy anymore? What happened to you? I 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.800 wanted this this object so bad, and you know, and 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:53.800 and now it's whatever. And the reason why is because 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:57.240 it's part of your present, and experience is part of 0:20:57.280 --> 0:20:59.800 your past. It can be your immediate pastor just past whatever, 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:03.000 and that is subject to revisionism, which is one of 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:06.600 the reasons why they think that when you especially self 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:10.320 report what makes you happier, you're probably going to go 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:12.800 with an experience. Yeah, and I'm kind of that way. 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:15.120 I think a lot of people, even with bad experiences, 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:19.320 later on you might think, uh, oh, you know it 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:21.840 was bad at the time, but we also we laugh 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:23.960 about it now, or you know, how you can reframe 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:28.359 bad experiences or if you're like super on the ball. 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:31.280 In the moment, you can say, you know, maybe we'll 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:34.119 be laughing at this in ten minutes, like you know, 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:38.680 some terrible vacation, Like I have fun memories about bad experiences, 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:42.120 and I don't think it's revisionism. I think it's uh, 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:45.879 just time. And maybe at the time you're not looking 0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:50.280 at the positives, you know, right, because your genes are 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:53.159 expressing all sorts of horrific things that are making you 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:56.320 so mad, you know. Um, But once the genes go 0:21:56.400 --> 0:21:59.040 back to normal, Yeah, things kind of take on a 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:02.520 different cast. Like, for instance, Uh, we went on a 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:04.520 big group camping trip like five or six years ago, 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:07.440 a bunch of us, Um, my dog got in a 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:11.399 fight with my friend Justin's dog, poured down rain and 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:13.520 it was the worst camping trip I've ever been on. 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.280 But now we look back at it and we laugh, 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:20.040 and we remember the midnight dance party we had in 0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:22.399 the rain and we made the best of it. But 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:24.720 at the time we're all like, man, I gotta get 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:27.280 out of here. This is miserable, do you know what 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:30.919 I'm saying? Like I look back on certain miserable experiences 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:34.199 and kind of laugh about him. There aren't many awful 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:38.080 experiences unless it's involved, like, you know, something really bad 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:41.320 and like life changing. Like I don't look back at 0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:43.520 like the death of a relative and say, you know, 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:46.360 that was really pretty fun. Now I thought that that 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:51.240 dress they buried her and was horrible, but now it's hilarious. Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:53.720 you can't do that with an object. No, you can't 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:56.600 do that. And even if you stay well, I remember 0:22:56.600 --> 0:23:00.959 when I was eight, I got this awesome um Castle 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:04.679 Gray school place and it was the bomb and I 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:08.320 was so happy. Um, what you're doing right there is 0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:13.520 remembering an object, which is significant, but sort of the 0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:17.440 experience of having it thought. Yeah, that's the big distinction. 0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:19.760 And I don't think anybody in the literature has done 0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:21.920 a very good job or did a very good job 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:25.760 over that six year period when happiness was studied of 0:23:26.480 --> 0:23:32.440