1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to you stuff you should know from House stuff 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, Jerry's here, 4 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: and uh, stuff you should know. We've got the eighteen 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: Yeah in the house, not the Chuck Holograham. It's not 6 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: guest producers mad or Noel. It's not pocket Josh, not 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: pocket Josh, although I did have a pocket Josh on me. 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: So he's here, He's always here. That's a voodoo doll. No, 9 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: it's not. It's clearly a voodoo doll. That's my hair. 10 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: I recognize. How's that back pain treating you? Hurt so bad? Uh? 11 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: How's it going pretty good except for the back pain. Well, 12 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: let me just massize your little pocket Josh. I think 13 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: the touch me, Chuck. I'm excited about this one. Our 14 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: ongoing series on happiness. Yeah, we've covered it with the 15 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: Bhutan Yeah, a Gross National Happiness, and then we did 16 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: our audiobook All about Happiness, super Stuff Guide to Happiness, 17 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 1: and all that was I guess a hold over from 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: was it right before or right after the financial global 19 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: financial collapse? M I feel like it was sort of 20 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: in the midst of okay, because I think what it 21 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: was was the world got cocky, especially the developed world. 22 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: Sure like, hey, things are going so well, We're all rich, 23 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: everybody's pretty happy. We're we're at war with not one 24 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: but two countries at once. Look at us, go um, 25 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: let's start talking about happiness and what makes us happy. 26 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: Let's start blogs about how we try to be happy 27 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: and enter it in once a day every day and 28 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: then get a book deal out of it. Let's just 29 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: think about happiness, happiness, happiness, happiness. Well, a few years on, 30 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: there's been some changes over time. Everybody said, people don't 31 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: talk about happiness anymore. Like there is a little while 32 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: where there was a period basically from my impression about 33 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: two thousand five to two thousand nine, where you could 34 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: get substantial grants to conduct research into the nature of happiness, 35 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: to quantify happiness, what makes people happy, what makes people unhappy, 36 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: how to make people happier? Um. And there was an 37 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: offshoot of psychology called positive psychology that we talked about, 38 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: the super stub guided happiness that said, we're good at 39 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: diagnosing um maladies, which physical maladies, no like problems, psychological problems, 40 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: but we're terrible at um how to make people happier. 41 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: So hence now we're going to have something called positive psychology, 42 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: which appears to have fallen by the wayside um. Yeah, 43 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: it's all negative psychology. Well, psychology itself as a field 44 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: is under tremendous amount of attack, and positive psychology. I 45 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 1: think they gave the chance to retreat. They're like, look, 46 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: you're you're pretty easy target. You should probably go. This 47 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: isn't even a real thing. I don't know. Maybe it 48 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: was a valiant attempt. I think it just came in 49 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: at the wrong time. But the the the point is, 50 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 1: if you look up happiness now, you will notice, like 51 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: just about everything cuts off. In two thousand nine, I 52 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: did notice that actually American doesn't care about being happy anymore, 53 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: or maybe they just hanging on studied and learned everything 54 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 1: they need to know, and we're like, all right, here 55 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: we are. Well, you know what, it's funny that you 56 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: say that, because if that's true and you're you could 57 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: be right, that represents them possibly the shortest amount of 58 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: time any subject has ever been studied. No, really, because 59 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: it started and what makes people happy? And maybe I 60 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: think two thousand three I read I read a study, 61 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: and it was about how this was one of the 62 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: first studies to ever try to figure out what makes 63 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: people happy. So then this field of study existed from 64 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: like two thousand three to two thousand nine, and they 65 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: were saying that the reason that this would be the 66 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: first studies because it's been so accepted for so many 67 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: years ever since. Hume the philosopher Hume, David Hume, Robert Hume, 68 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: the Scottish philosopher is one of my favorites. Just if 69 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: you're on Jeopardy, you could just say hum hum, We'll 70 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 1: go with hum um. Who is hum if you're on 71 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: Jeopardy he was the Scottish philosopher. No, I'm just had 72 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:33,239 Speaker 1: to phrase it, Okay, I'm just teasing um, he said. 73 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: He was one of the first people to mention this 74 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: concept of what makes people happy insofar as what we're 75 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: talking about today, which is does an object make you happier? 76 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: Or does an experience make you happier? Yeah, I think 77 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: they've done like the lottery studies before two thousand four, 78 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: like if lottery winners, But um, that's a pretty specialized study. Yes, 79 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: So to my point is to try to honify happiness, 80 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: that kind of thing and really investigated. But it started 81 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: in the early two thousands, that ended by the mid 82 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 1: two thousand, the first decade of the tea. Well, while 83 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 1: I'm reading all these studies, I'm looking oh seven oh 84 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: eight oh four, Yeah, very keen observation, and I can't 85 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: quite figure out. I mean, obviously, I think the Great 86 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: Recession is almost entirely responsible for that falling to the wayside. 87 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: But if you look still today, there's there are still 88 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,679 Speaker 1: related studies. It's just not happiness studies. Yeah, I found 89 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: when I was reading this, I disagreed with a lot 90 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: of these findings and studies. They didn't seem fully fleshed out, 91 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: did they. Well, for instance, we'll go ahead and start 92 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: with this supposed fact. Researchers have done some studying and 93 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: they have pinned down how long a material object can 94 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: will make you happy, and they say between six and 95 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,039 Speaker 1: twelve weeks, then you get bored with it. Basically, I 96 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 1: just don't know about that because it wholly to me, 97 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: it wholly depends on what the object is. That's something 98 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: that gives you ongoing pleasure, like a guitar, let's say, yeah, 99 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,359 Speaker 1: because that is also an experience an object. But like 100 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: I will love my guitars until I die because I 101 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: play them and enjoy it and play them with my friends. 102 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, And what you're talking about the gift 103 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: that keeps giving right exactly, that's called um uh, active engagement. 104 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: It is a It is a purchase. And when we 105 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: say purchase, we're not talking about necessarily just an object, 106 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: which we'll talk about in a little bit. You can 107 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: also you purchase experiences as well. In fact, they say 108 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: that's the way to go, right. So there's a happiness purchase, 109 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: is what we're saying. And your guitar that you purchased, 110 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: that's an object, but you purchased it, but it's making 111 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: you happy, you know, over and over and over again. 112 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: The reason why is because you become actively engaged in 113 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: an active engagement in anything that is positive or that 114 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: makes you happy can continue to make you happy for 115 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: longer than say another object that doesn't actively engage you, 116 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: Like a pair of shoes that you wanted really really 117 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: bad and then got and then like sit in your closets, 118 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: you don't wear them anymore because after well, you may 119 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: still wear them, but you're wearing them as shoes. You're 120 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: not wearing them like I'm I'm the King of Rotterdamn 121 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: here and check out my shoes. You know that that 122 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: kind of thing that lacks active engagement, that lacks social interaction, 123 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: and that lacks exercise. And those are the three, the 124 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: big three things that you can buy objects wise that 125 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: kind of sit outside of that six to twelve week Um, 126 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: happiness adaptation is what it's called. Um. So, yeah, you 127 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: kind of nailed it right there with the guitar. It's 128 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: not just guitar. Video games are another good example. Yeah, 129 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: like you buy your PS three and you may get 130 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: sick of some of the games, but they're always releasing 131 00:07:55,680 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: new games, right. Um, if you bought a um, a 132 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: language module, you learn a language or something, you know, 133 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: I mean like it's you're something that actively engage you, 134 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: something that that you use for exercise, or something that 135 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: leads to social interaction. Are the three object types that 136 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: make you happier longer? Well, that makes me feel better 137 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: than and um the whole six or twelve weeks though, 138 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: whether that's a an accurate number not the chuck um. 139 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: Remember we talked about the hedonic treadmill. It's evidence of 140 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: the hedonic treadmill. That's just a thing called um hedonic adaptation, 141 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: and that is that something that makes you happy isn't 142 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: gonna make you happy forever. Something you've purchased pretty much, 143 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: whatever it is, you're going to eventually subsume it into 144 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 1: your everyday life. You're gonna end up taking it for granted, basically, 145 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: is another way to put it. How long, how short 146 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: that happens, or how long that happens is um. It 147 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: definitely differs depending on the type, and we'll talk about 148 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: the type in the minute. But what people end up 149 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: getting on once once an object stop making stops making 150 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: them happy, they still want to be happy. So they 151 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: end up on the hedonic treadmill and buy another pair 152 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,199 Speaker 1: of shoes, and then another, and then another and then another. 153 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: And you end up just trying to keep pace, buying 154 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: all this stuff, accumulating all of this material stuff, and 155 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: it's just kind of keeping you at a a steady 156 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: pace of happiness without any kind of real enrichment. And 157 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: that's the hedonic treadmill. Yeah, and that's materialism UM. Which 158 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: they've done studies on materialism. There was one by these 159 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: dudes Chaplain and John in two thousand seven where they 160 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: linked it to low self esteem generally from childhood, Like 161 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: you're sort of always trying to gain your self esteem 162 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: through material objects. Uh. They've linked it to narcissism. Yeah, 163 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: people who try to build themselves like up through having 164 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: you know, fancy things and showing them off. Yeah. And 165 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: there's the I mean, that's that is a real um 166 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: technique that people use to establish their identities, established their 167 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: worth to others. And it's a ironically, it's a cheap 168 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 1: and easy way to do it. It may be very 169 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: expensive dollar wise, but you don't have to put a 170 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of thought or effort into it. You just 171 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: go by the most expensive, most obvious, uh obviously expensive 172 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: item you can and wear it out and broadcast it 173 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: and get your sense of self worth from that. So 174 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: it is very shallow thing materialism. I think everybody kind 175 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: of knows that intuitively, but it's been studied, you know, 176 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: like it it is linked to all these kind of 177 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: um personality disorders. There's a guy named Russ Belk who's 178 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: a marketing researcher, and he was the first one to 179 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 1: really research materialism on the Belk Chain of Stars, I wonder, 180 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: and he uh, he found it to be a character 181 00:10:55,480 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: trait marked by envy, non generosity, and possessiveness. Yeah, materialism 182 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: is so hard to define for me though, because it's 183 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: like a guitar is a material object and a nice 184 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: guitar is. I don't know. I definitely not materialistic, I 185 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: don't think, but I want a nice guitar because it 186 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: sounds awesome, it looks cool. But I think that that's 187 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: why like Belk and Chaplain and John went to the 188 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: trouble of like kind of investigating it. It's like, do 189 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 1: you do you have like a clinically flawed personality? Uh, 190 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: that's based on your desire for material objects. Yeah, but 191 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: see that, like it's all personal. Like I might think 192 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: it's material to go out and buy a pair of 193 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: eight hundred dollar shoes, but the person might get a 194 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: lot of joy out of those shoes, and say, I 195 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: think it's stupid to go pay a thousand dollars for 196 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: a guitar. You know, Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. 197 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm saying. You don't know. I mean, 198 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: I think you raise a good point, and it's it's 199 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 1: valid because there that the research isn't that deep. I mean, 200 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: you could be exactly right, and I think it's subject yes. 201 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: And not only is this whole you know, the finding subjective, 202 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: the reportings are subjective to Like there's a study in 203 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: in San Francisco, UM in two thousand nine. The last 204 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,719 Speaker 1: year that happiness was ever studied, the last year of 205 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: happiness mattered m and basically this uh, this group had 206 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty four college students, it's pretty small 207 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: fill out a survey. They said that we want you 208 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: to pick um. We want you to write down a 209 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: little bit about an object that you purchased to make 210 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: you happy in the last three months, or an experience 211 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: that made you happy in the last three months that 212 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: you purchased. Yes, which is important to distinguish that, right, 213 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: because you think you're gonna have free experiences too, you can, yeah, 214 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: and we'll get to that. But the college students um 215 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: self reported that the at the time of the purchase, 216 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: the experiences made them happier, and the happiness lasted longer 217 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: than the ones who reported an object made them happy. Yeah. 218 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: I mean every study pretty much confirms experiences over material objects. Yes. 219 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: My point is it was self reported, so it's subjective 220 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: right out of the gate, and that's the problem with 221 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: studying things like happiness. It's it's an emotion which is subjective. 222 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: And then it was also a small sample of college students, um, 223 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: homogeneous group and what do they know? Not they'ren't money 224 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: for anything now there, But there's this UM acronym for 225 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: college for studies like that. It's weird. It's Western educated, 226 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: uh something rich and democratic. Yeah, I can't remember what 227 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 1: the eye but weird it's it's and it's saying like 228 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: there's a lot of studies out there that people rely 229 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: on that are weird that the population sample are like 230 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: eighteen to twenty one year old, right, you know, fairly 231 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: well off western kids, right, Like, what does that really 232 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: tell us? Yeah? Yeah, so um, this is an example 233 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: of that. I saw another study that thought was interesting. 234 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: As far as objects go, um, Like, like we said, 235 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: across the board, it's they pretty much have said experiences 236 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: purchased or free mean more to someone in the long 237 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: run than an object. But um, when it comes to 238 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: spending on objects, this one study did find that spending 239 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: on others across the board, even on an object, is 240 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: brings more happiness than spending on yourself for an object. Yeah. Um, 241 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: And in fact, uh, people were assigned to spend money 242 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: and one of these studies, and they experienced greater happiness. 243 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: And people assigned to spend money on themselves, like here's 244 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: a hundred dollars go by yourself something nice, or here's 245 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: a hundred bucks go by someone else something nice. People 246 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: were happier that bought something for someone else, which was interesting. 247 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: And that's you're saying, that's like the case with objects 248 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: and experiences as well. I think that was just objects, 249 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: but I would say it probably holds true for experience, 250 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: Like you takes someone out to dinner, you feel good 251 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: about it. So what you what you have there is 252 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: you're spending on another person. It's there. It's fostering social interaction, 253 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: which is another key huge and it's an experience. Yeah, 254 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: pretty much like you couldn't get happier than that. Yeah, 255 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: the social thing is kind of the key to all 256 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: of this, they say, because generally your experience happiness is 257 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: usually not alone, like you'll go to a concert with 258 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: someone or to dinner with someone. But um, but not 259 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: always right and not always is a pretty good little 260 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: buzz term for this part of the podcast, because um, 261 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: there's also research that shows that objects can bring more 262 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: happiness than experiences, depending on the experience. Like for a 263 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: long time, the literature just basically said experiences make you 264 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: happier than objects. It's exactly. And these researchers found that 265 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: um a an unhappy experience, Yeah, especially one that was 266 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: meant to be happy. Like let's say you want on 267 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: a cruise or you went on a vacation and it 268 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: just sucked like that. That compared to an object that's 269 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: supposed to make you happy, that object is gonna beat 270 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: that experience and you're gonna have that bad memory of 271 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: the experience longer too. Yeah. You know what else I 272 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: think I haven't seen pointed out is you can't you 273 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: can't get your money back on a bad dinner and play. Yeah, 274 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: that's true. But if you get an object, you know, 275 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: like this thinks you can usually return that unless you 276 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: took a bite out of it already. Yeah, this is 277 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: a good way to say it. But you can't, you 278 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like you take a vacation that 279 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: ends up being a disaster, I would be more upset 280 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: about that because it's like you've lost your money, You're 281 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: gonna have this bad memory. But if you buy some 282 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: stupid thing. You can like just resell it or on 283 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: Craig Lester send it back, right. And um, so that's 284 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: that's one distinction between materials, I guess objects and experiences. Yeah. Um, 285 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: and we should give a shout out to start here. 286 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: Who start sart Oh? Yeah, John Paul Sartra, the philosopher 287 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: um who is kind of credited with really introducing this 288 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 1: concept or codifying it into the mainstream. To start, there 289 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: were three paths to happiness, are three types of happiness. 290 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: There was um, having, doing and being and being we're 291 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: not even talking about in this one, but having and doing, um, 292 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: materialism and experientialism um start in the fifties. I think, 293 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: uh just kind of introduce us into the literature, and 294 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:40,479 Speaker 1: that ultimately is what kicked off the this kind of 295 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 1: study into which one is better, which one makes you happier? Yeah? 296 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: And I like how you you wrote this, right. I 297 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: like how you point out about Buddhism, how they feel 298 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: that material objects actually get in the way of happiness. 299 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: Not only may they not bring you happiness, but they 300 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: will prevent it. Sure. And it's not just Buddhism, it's 301 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: UM for centuries. It's just basically been accepted that an 302 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: object is less desirable if you're seeking happiness than an experience, 303 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: and it's that's why the researchers were saying, Um, you know, 304 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: we're one of the first studies to to conduct and 305 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: an investigation into this because it's just been generally accepted 306 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: that that's the case, but no one knew exactly why. 307 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: So now we've kind of reached the why parts. And 308 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 1: one of the things you said is, um, you can't 309 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: take an experience back. All right, hold on to that thought. 310 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick message break and we'll get back 311 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 1: with the why. Chuck. I don't know if you've heard 312 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: this or not, but the cost of a stamp just 313 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: went up to cents, but not if you have stamps 314 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: dot Com. Buddy, Oh yeah, yeah. With stamps dot Com 315 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: you'll pay less for postage than you would at the 316 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: post office for first class mail, Priority Priority Express mail 317 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: packages and more. 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And here's the best part, you 326 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: may never have to go to the post office again. 327 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: That sounds good to me. So right now, we have 328 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: a very special offer. You can use our promo code 329 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: stuff for a no risk trial plus a hundred and 330 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: ten dollar bonus offer which includes a digital scale and 331 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 1: up to fifty free postage. That's right, so don't wait. 332 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: Go to stamps dot com before you do anything else. 333 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage 334 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: and type an S t U F F that Stamps 335 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: dot Com enter stuff. Okay, So why well, um, you 336 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 1: mentioned that objects. Uh, you can take an object back, 337 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 1: you can't take an experience back. One of the big 338 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: differences that researchers came up with is that with experiences 339 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: you can because you can't take them back. They're kind 340 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: of esoteric. They're also more subject to revision. Right, so 341 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 1: you can you can think back to an experience and 342 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: over time, but stopped pump it up, alter it slightly, um, 343 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: make it more meaningful, whatever. Um, you're just kind of 344 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: adding to it. You remember when we did that thing 345 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: on memory, We research memory, and it's like every time 346 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: you bring up memory, you kind of add to it. 347 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: When you store it away, it's different, it's altered in 348 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,959 Speaker 1: one way. Well, what you're remembering an experience, you're not 349 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: remembering an object because you have the object in your 350 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: hand and you're shaking it and you're like, why don't 351 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: you make me happy anymore? What happened to you? I 352 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: wanted this this object so bad, and you know, and 353 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: and now it's whatever. And the reason why is because 354 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: it's part of your present, and experience is part of 355 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: your past. It can be your immediate pastor just past whatever, 356 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: and that is subject to revisionism, which is one of 357 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: the reasons why they think that when you especially self 358 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: report what makes you happier, you're probably going to go 359 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: with an experience. Yeah, and I'm kind of that way. 360 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people, even with bad experiences, 361 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: later on you might think, uh, oh, you know it 362 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: was bad at the time, but we also we laugh 363 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: about it now, or you know, how you can reframe 364 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: bad experiences or if you're like super on the ball. 365 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: In the moment, you can say, you know, maybe we'll 366 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 1: be laughing at this in ten minutes, like you know, 367 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: some terrible vacation, Like I have fun memories about bad experiences, 368 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,120 Speaker 1: and I don't think it's revisionism. I think it's uh, 369 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: just time. And maybe at the time you're not looking 370 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: at the positives, you know, right, because your genes are 371 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: expressing all sorts of horrific things that are making you 372 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: so mad, you know. Um, But once the genes go 373 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: back to normal, Yeah, things kind of take on a 374 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: different cast. Like, for instance, Uh, we went on a 375 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: big group camping trip like five or six years ago, 376 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: a bunch of us, Um, my dog got in a 377 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: fight with my friend Justin's dog, poured down rain and 378 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: it was the worst camping trip I've ever been on. 379 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: But now we look back at it and we laugh, 380 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: and we remember the midnight dance party we had in 381 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: the rain and we made the best of it. But 382 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: at the time we're all like, man, I gotta get 383 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: out of here. This is miserable, do you know what 384 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: I'm saying? Like I look back on certain miserable experiences 385 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 1: and kind of laugh about him. There aren't many awful 386 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: experiences unless it's involved, like, you know, something really bad 387 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: and like life changing. Like I don't look back at 388 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: like the death of a relative and say, you know, 389 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 1: that was really pretty fun. Now I thought that that 390 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: dress they buried her and was horrible, but now it's hilarious. Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, 391 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: you can't do that with an object. No, you can't 392 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: do that. And even if you stay well, I remember 393 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,959 Speaker 1: when I was eight, I got this awesome um Castle 394 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 1: Gray school place and it was the bomb and I 395 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: was so happy. Um, what you're doing right there is 396 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: remembering an object, which is significant, but sort of the 397 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: experience of having it thought. Yeah, that's the big distinction. 398 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: And I don't think anybody in the literature has done 399 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 1: a very good job or did a very good job 400 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: over that six year period when happiness was studied of 401 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: explaining that that. When you're talking about materialism versus experientialism, 402 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: objects versus experiences, like you're talking about the object itself 403 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: and not your propensity to generate memories and experiences through 404 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 1: the object, which is kind of confusing and cluttering frankly, 405 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,360 Speaker 1: but it's an important point. Uh. There's a book out 406 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 1: people love writing books about this stuff too, telling them 407 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: for you know online. Elizabe Dunna. Michael Norton wrote one 408 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: called Happy Money. The science is Smarter Spending. Uh. And 409 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 1: they track down some key principles. Um. They they obviously 410 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: say experiences are more valuable than objects, but they break 411 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: it down further and give you some advice, like you 412 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: should buy an experience. First of all, you should make 413 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: it a treat, which means, you know, it makes it 414 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: more special if you limit your access to these things. Uh. 415 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,199 Speaker 1: And I get that if you go to like some 416 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: really fancy restaurant, it's great, but if you go like 417 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: every week, you're kind of like, all right, I'm kind 418 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: of sick of sick of this place. They say you 419 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 1: should buy time, which I'm not fully sure to understand 420 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: what that means. You go to another human being and 421 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: say I would like to purchase one to two years 422 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 1: of your life. Um, and you just put it onto 423 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: my little watch here. I'm gonna take it from your watch. 424 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: How much do you want? And then they give you 425 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: some of their life o. Uh. And then they say 426 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,479 Speaker 1: to invest in others, which goes back to that original 427 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 1: study I was talking about. And then pay now and 428 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: consume later, and that delayed consumption leads to increased enjoyment. 429 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, which is the opposite of one of the 430 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: tenants of materialism, like exactly, and then you pay now. Apparently, 431 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: people who are um um, I guess registered materialists. I 432 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: don't remember how they quantified at r MS figured it 433 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: out in the UM in the study, but people who 434 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: are materialistic have UM more credit cards, typically have at 435 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: least one loan of a thousand dollars and more outstanding. Um. 436 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: It's just kind of a not only does it lead 437 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: to or is it associated with character flaws, it also 438 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: has other pitfalls and pathfalls associated with it too, like debt. Yeah, 439 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: that's the exact opposite that's consumed now, pay later exactly, 440 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: whereas the other is like cantra and this is like 441 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 1: whatever the opposite of tantra is. I don't know, um, 442 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 1: but the the there's this kind of unspoken or very 443 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: rarely spoken indictment of material culture um and that well, 444 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: I ran across this one quote. It's called it's a 445 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 1: consumer Materialism is a degrading outcome of untrammeled marketing power. 446 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: That it's kind of like you have people who possibly 447 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: have low self esteem, low self worth, and are looking 448 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: for a way to generate their own identity. Who are 449 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: more highly susceptible, maybe too being marketed to like, if 450 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: you drink this liquor, you're going to turn into a 451 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: lion and own the barrier. And no matter what your 452 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: salary is, as long as you can afford a bottle 453 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: of this, no matter how much it puts you out, 454 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: you're gonna You're gonna be awesome. Your friends are gonna 455 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: be awesome. And some people say, like, I need to 456 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 1: feel awesome right now, and I'm willing to shell out 457 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,640 Speaker 1: fifty bucks for that, and I'm gonna do it. And 458 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: who knows, maybe it does pump them up a little bit, 459 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: hopefully though ideally, if it does pump them up, pump 460 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 1: them up to a level where they realize that materialism 461 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: isn't going to make them happy. What about a facelift? 462 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: That's neither an object nor I guess the experience is 463 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: having the new face. Apparently, plastic surgery um people are 464 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: reported to have surgery people they they are reported to 465 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 1: have longer lasting happiness. That hedonic adaptation takes way longer 466 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: for plastic surgery than other I guess purchases interesting. Uh, well, 467 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: going back to the whole lottery thing, I think everyone 468 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: knows that all the studies generally point to it's like 469 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: a baseline happiness. Objects can make you happy in the moment, 470 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: But with lottery winners, they did find out repeatedly that 471 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: they generally go back to their baseline happiness from before 472 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: they had the dough. And I would say that's the 473 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: case for most of these studies. It's not about how 474 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: happy you are in a moment or even in a 475 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: given experience or holding an object, but eventually you're going 476 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 1: to return to the schmuck that you are. You're either 477 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 1: happy or you're not. You know, we're remember when we 478 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: did our super Stuff Guide to Happiness, there was that um, 479 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: one of the founders of trans humanism, who was saying, like, 480 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: we need to figure out how to ratchet up everybody's 481 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: base level happiness. Yeah, like even with pills and things right, 482 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: or genetic um manipulation or whatever. He's like, whatever it takes, 483 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,479 Speaker 1: that's one of the things that should be a pursuit 484 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: of humanity is making everyone happier by nature. I don't 485 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, I think you said the same thing 486 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: in the stuff. Yeah, because I think pathos is valuable. 487 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I'm pretty sure we made that point. 488 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 1: It seems like something you would say and I'd be like, yeah, 489 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: I do. I think it's valuable to the human experience. 490 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: I think it's I can do a lot of good 491 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: to be uh, briefly depressed. And well here's an example 492 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: of that. Um, this the Great Recession. Since the Great Recession, 493 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: teenagers have been reporting um less desire for material objects 494 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: than the teenagers for a decade before. Um, They're like, 495 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: but you're not talking about my smartphone, right, everything? But 496 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: that right, Well, they were saying like they're there. Um, 497 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: they were scoring on like materialism surveys as less materialistic 498 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: than their counterparts a decade before, and they were more 499 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: likely to say things like I want a job that 500 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: benefits society. They were they were becoming less materialistic and 501 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: more pro social, and they were saying that that's a 502 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: direct result of this Great Recession. So lessons learned. Yeah, 503 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: your point that, um, that depression of one way or 504 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: one sort or another can be beneficial. It's on a 505 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: social societal level that's true too. Apparently, Yeah, I did it. 506 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: Happiness objects or or experiences. What do you think I 507 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: think objects super shiny, golden, golden, sparkly objects. Yeah, which 508 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: is one last thing. I think you made a really 509 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: good point, like wanting a guitar is doesn't make you 510 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: a materialist. You don't have to reject all possession to 511 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: be a good, grounded, normal, happy person. Yeah. Listen to 512 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: our podcasts on freegans, yeah, dumpster diving. I think those 513 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: people are happy. I think I say yes, yeah, and 514 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: go check out our super Stuff Guide to Happiness. It 515 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: was very, very good. It's on iTunes. It's available on iTunes. Yeah, 516 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: just blow the dust off of it. It's still relevant 517 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: because everything stopped in two thousand nine. It was so 518 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: interesting too. Yeah, it was a good one. Uh. And 519 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about objects or um experiences, 520 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: you can type those words in the search bar at 521 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com and it will bring up 522 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: this article that we were working off of. And since 523 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: I said search bar, it's time for listener mail. All right, 524 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this grocery waste. We did our podcast 525 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: on de fridging, and we got a surprisingly a lot 526 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: of responses from people. Yeah, I was kind of surprised. 527 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,239 Speaker 1: It really hit home. Uh. So this is from a 528 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: former grocery store employee when he was in high school. 529 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: He said, part of my job at the store was 530 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: to find all the eggs, bread and milk that had 531 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: a cell by date within the next three days. Uh. 532 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: And it's really terrible because cell by dates are designed 533 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: with some wiggle room just to make sure nothing is 534 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: spoiling before the date on the cart. And when I 535 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: had the cart loaded up with perfectly good food, I 536 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: had to throw the bread and eggs into the garbage 537 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: compactor and pour all the milk down the drain dozens 538 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: of gallons a night. M It's just like maddening. And 539 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: I got with the local f f a teacher whatever 540 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: that is, and asked if yeah, look at you, okay, 541 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: whatever that is, I don't remember for you remember. Um? 542 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: They asked if all this wasted food? Um. I asked 543 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: if all the wasted food could be used to slap 544 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: the pigs that the students were raising, and he said 545 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: that'd be a great idea. So I went to the 546 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: manager of the grocery store, said we should do this 547 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: and it might even be good pr for us. It 548 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: turns out the grocery store got back partial store credit 549 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: from their suppliers for expired food that they threw away. 550 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: And here's the hitch. They would not get any credit 551 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: if any of the expired food was put to any use. 552 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: Isn't that awful. Some suppliers would even refuse credit if 553 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: they decided the store wasn't doing enough to prevent dumpster 554 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: divers from retrieving food. What's worse, many foods that don't 555 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: actually spoil for years and years, but they have arbitrarily 556 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: short sell by dates because they found that people don't 557 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: trust foods to have an expiration date too far into 558 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: the future. Can you remember didn't we talk about, Oh, 559 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: I did a brain stuff on water going bad, and 560 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: it's like, there's no reason for it to have an 561 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: expiration date. Yeah? Uh so, he says. Thus, I spent 562 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: one memorable evening throwaway throwing out hundreds of dollars worth 563 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: of cheese that was a known danger of spoiling anytime soon. 564 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: Even asked if I could take some home, and they 565 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: said that that would be considered shoplifting. Wow. So I 566 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: don't see food waste being addressed until it becomes a 567 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: matter of public outrage. On the level of sweatshop labor. 568 00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: There are just too many economic barriers in the way. 569 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: That is from Todd from Okay. See thanks Todd, And 570 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: that is just his store. We heard from other people 571 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: some stores have different policies where they can actually put 572 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: some of that food to use, but I don't think 573 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: that's the norm. No. And we heard from another guy 574 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: too who was fired because he got so tired of 575 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: throwing stuff where he took a bunch of baguettes to 576 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: a homeless shelter and they found out about it and 577 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: he was fired because of it. Um, but he said 578 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: he didn't regret. It's still his day. Good good for him. Yeah, Um, 579 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: thanks Todd from Okay. See I would say go thunder, 580 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: but go heat instead. Uh. If you want to get 581 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: in touch with Chuck or Me or Jerry, UM, you 582 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: can send us a tweet. Our handle is s y 583 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: s K Podcast with the little at symbol ahead of that. 584 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: We're on Facebook dot com slash stuff you should know 585 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: check us out there. UM. You can check out our 586 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: YouTube channel Josh and Chuck that's the name of it. 587 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: You'll love it. Um. You can also send us a 588 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: regular old email Stuff podcast at discovery dot com and 589 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: want to st at home on the web. 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