1 00:00:15,410 --> 00:00:25,050 Speaker 1: Pushkin. April seventeen eighty nine, early morning, a British ship 2 00:00:25,170 --> 00:00:29,010 Speaker 1: and crew have been sailing home from Tahiti for three weeks. 3 00:00:29,930 --> 00:00:34,490 Speaker 1: It's quiet on board, just wind and slapping light waves. 4 00:00:35,570 --> 00:00:39,970 Speaker 1: But if someone had been listening closely, that have heard whispers, lightly, 5 00:00:40,010 --> 00:00:44,490 Speaker 1: hurrying footsteps, and then, about an hour before dawn, an 6 00:00:44,530 --> 00:00:50,890 Speaker 1: explosion of noise. This is HMS Bounty, and one of 7 00:00:50,930 --> 00:00:56,730 Speaker 1: the most famous mutinies in history is underway. Lieutenant Fletcher 8 00:00:56,810 --> 00:01:01,130 Speaker 1: Christian has organized most of the crew who detest their captain, 9 00:01:01,570 --> 00:01:05,770 Speaker 1: thirty four year old William Blind. They drag Blithe from 10 00:01:05,770 --> 00:01:09,570 Speaker 1: his cabin, tying his wrists behind his back on deck. 11 00:01:09,730 --> 00:01:13,490 Speaker 1: He struggles to get free, and Fletcher Christian blocks him, 12 00:01:13,530 --> 00:01:18,730 Speaker 1: pressing a bayonet to his chest. In England they've been friends. 13 00:01:19,530 --> 00:01:24,850 Speaker 1: Now glaring at each other. That's over. Pistols are at hand, 14 00:01:25,170 --> 00:01:28,890 Speaker 1: and the crew calls for Christian to blow Bli's brains out. 15 00:01:30,370 --> 00:01:33,770 Speaker 1: Bly yells back at Christian, telling him he must stop that. 16 00:01:33,850 --> 00:01:37,610 Speaker 1: In England, didn't he remember Christian had held Bli's own 17 00:01:37,730 --> 00:01:42,410 Speaker 1: children on his knee after what's happened on this voyage, However, 18 00:01:42,890 --> 00:01:48,930 Speaker 1: Christian doesn't care. He forces Bly into a tiny, overloaded 19 00:01:49,010 --> 00:01:53,450 Speaker 1: launch out on the vast Pacific. This far from land, 20 00:01:53,890 --> 00:01:59,290 Speaker 1: no one is likely to survive for long. I'm Tim 21 00:01:59,330 --> 00:02:27,970 Speaker 1: Harford and you're listening to cautionary Tales. This episode is 22 00:02:28,010 --> 00:02:31,810 Speaker 1: the third in a series exploring the famous idea that 23 00:02:32,130 --> 00:02:36,850 Speaker 1: nice guys finish last, inspired by David Bandanas's book The 24 00:02:37,090 --> 00:02:40,450 Speaker 1: Art of Fairness. And we'll hear a bit from David 25 00:02:40,450 --> 00:02:45,290 Speaker 1: Bandanas himself later. But first, the mutiny on the Bounty. 26 00:02:46,810 --> 00:02:49,650 Speaker 1: It's not only an astonishing story in its own right, 27 00:02:50,010 --> 00:02:53,210 Speaker 1: it also sheds light on the question of whether nice 28 00:02:53,250 --> 00:03:00,010 Speaker 1: guys finish last or first. Let's start with Captain William Bly. 29 00:03:01,090 --> 00:03:03,810 Speaker 1: Several movies have been made about the mutiny, and Bly 30 00:03:04,090 --> 00:03:08,410 Speaker 1: is often painted as a cruel, petty tyrant. Just how 31 00:03:08,450 --> 00:03:11,690 Speaker 1: cruel and tea he really was is something we'll look 32 00:03:11,730 --> 00:03:15,730 Speaker 1: at closely. Certainly, before he became Captain of the Bounty, 33 00:03:16,010 --> 00:03:20,290 Speaker 1: William Bly was a generally quiet, thoughtful fellow. He came 34 00:03:20,370 --> 00:03:23,370 Speaker 1: from a fairly humble family, just an inch above the 35 00:03:23,410 --> 00:03:26,850 Speaker 1: working classes. Joining the Navy when he was still a 36 00:03:26,890 --> 00:03:31,210 Speaker 1: teenager was a good way to rise. He developed his 37 00:03:31,370 --> 00:03:36,130 Speaker 1: artistic abilities and was especially drawn to painting watercolor landscapes, 38 00:03:36,770 --> 00:03:41,290 Speaker 1: and he discovered that he loved mathematics. That was big 39 00:03:42,130 --> 00:03:46,690 Speaker 1: Bly was awed at the sophisticated men of Britain's royal society. 40 00:03:47,370 --> 00:03:50,450 Speaker 1: They were heirs to Sir Isaac Newton and the other 41 00:03:50,570 --> 00:03:55,530 Speaker 1: great rational minds that were transforming the world. His ambition 42 00:03:55,770 --> 00:03:58,730 Speaker 1: and his mathematical skill came together when he was lucky 43 00:03:58,850 --> 00:04:02,690 Speaker 1: enough barely passed twenty to get a position as sailing 44 00:04:02,770 --> 00:04:06,730 Speaker 1: master and one of the voyages that Captain James Cook 45 00:04:07,050 --> 00:04:12,970 Speaker 1: was undertaking. Cook was the greatest explorer of the age 46 00:04:13,330 --> 00:04:16,010 Speaker 1: and exactly the sort of man BLI wanted to model 47 00:04:16,090 --> 00:04:19,770 Speaker 1: himself on. Others Sea captains often treated their men with 48 00:04:20,090 --> 00:04:25,090 Speaker 1: staggering cruelty. On one British ship, the captain ruled that 49 00:04:25,170 --> 00:04:27,410 Speaker 1: the last man to make it down from the mast 50 00:04:27,810 --> 00:04:30,810 Speaker 1: was to be whipped. However quickly the descent took place. 51 00:04:32,090 --> 00:04:36,610 Speaker 1: Cook was the opposite. The ships he explored with weren't 52 00:04:36,650 --> 00:04:40,610 Speaker 1: going to be festering slave holds. Men from the lowest 53 00:04:40,690 --> 00:04:44,850 Speaker 1: ranks of society might tend to be impulsive, but could 54 00:04:44,890 --> 00:04:49,010 Speaker 1: be redeemed. There would be good light below deck, healthy 55 00:04:49,050 --> 00:04:54,090 Speaker 1: food and fresh air. Treat them well, treat them fairly, 56 00:04:55,050 --> 00:05:00,090 Speaker 1: and they'd perform wanders. If you listen to our last 57 00:05:00,210 --> 00:05:04,330 Speaker 1: episode about the Empire State Building, you'll recognize this idea. 58 00:05:04,770 --> 00:05:08,650 Speaker 1: It's just what construction manager Paul Starrett believed. Over a 59 00:05:08,690 --> 00:05:14,130 Speaker 1: century later. Here in the late eighteenth century, the twenty 60 00:05:14,170 --> 00:05:18,450 Speaker 1: two year old Bli saw Captain Cook demonstrate the power 61 00:05:18,450 --> 00:05:23,090 Speaker 1: of this fairness on a global voyage. Cook's mission really 62 00:05:23,210 --> 00:05:26,450 Speaker 1: was to boldly go where no man, or at least 63 00:05:26,570 --> 00:05:30,850 Speaker 1: only a few men, had gone before. Bly traveled with 64 00:05:30,930 --> 00:05:34,730 Speaker 1: him deep into the Pacific and also up to the Arctic, 65 00:05:35,330 --> 00:05:40,370 Speaker 1: rising to be the main navigator on board. Bly's young 66 00:05:40,490 --> 00:05:45,170 Speaker 1: friend Fletcher Christian, also came to share Cook's vision for 67 00:05:45,250 --> 00:05:48,450 Speaker 1: how to run a ship. He was ten years younger 68 00:05:48,450 --> 00:05:52,650 Speaker 1: than bl tall and dark haired, and from a notably 69 00:05:52,810 --> 00:05:58,370 Speaker 1: higher social class. His older brother was a fellow at Cambridge, 70 00:05:58,610 --> 00:06:03,370 Speaker 1: but he too was interested in science, in rational approaches, 71 00:06:03,970 --> 00:06:08,090 Speaker 1: and that brought an affinity Blie didn't have with most others. 72 00:06:09,290 --> 00:06:13,010 Speaker 1: Years after the expedition with Cook, when Bly was briefly 73 00:06:13,090 --> 00:06:17,170 Speaker 1: captaining in the merchant Service, Bly and Christian got on 74 00:06:17,330 --> 00:06:21,810 Speaker 1: very well on a voyage to the West Indies. Then, 75 00:06:22,090 --> 00:06:25,930 Speaker 1: in seventeen eighty seven, bl was in his early thirties 76 00:06:26,090 --> 00:06:29,850 Speaker 1: Christian in his early twenties, Bly was given the command 77 00:06:30,050 --> 00:06:34,690 Speaker 1: for a new sort of mission. Tahiti had a tree 78 00:06:34,730 --> 00:06:39,450 Speaker 1: called the breadfruit tree, which produced nutritious, large fruit. If 79 00:06:39,490 --> 00:06:44,410 Speaker 1: he could collect living samples and transport them to the Caribbean, 80 00:06:44,930 --> 00:06:49,130 Speaker 1: that would help feed the landowners there, and also, this 81 00:06:49,530 --> 00:06:53,970 Speaker 1: cruel side of empire, feed the captured Africans who were 82 00:06:54,010 --> 00:06:58,890 Speaker 1: forced to labor for them. Like most Britons of his time, 83 00:06:59,450 --> 00:07:04,130 Speaker 1: Bly was able to put that slavery out of his mind. Instead, 84 00:07:04,370 --> 00:07:07,610 Speaker 1: he was focused on what he felt was a great opportunity. 85 00:07:08,570 --> 00:07:11,330 Speaker 1: In this new mission, he would follow the model of 86 00:07:11,370 --> 00:07:15,010 Speaker 1: the revered Captain Cook. He'd show that he too could 87 00:07:15,090 --> 00:07:19,610 Speaker 1: run everything through logic and reason rather than primitive impulse. 88 00:07:20,370 --> 00:07:25,890 Speaker 1: The men under his command would not be brutalized into submission. Instead, 89 00:07:26,450 --> 00:07:30,810 Speaker 1: they'd be shaped by the use of rational incentives, rewarded 90 00:07:30,810 --> 00:07:34,130 Speaker 1: when they did well and punished when they fell short. 91 00:07:35,610 --> 00:07:39,570 Speaker 1: Blyh was given command of a fast, three masted sailing ship, 92 00:07:40,130 --> 00:07:45,010 Speaker 1: HMS Bounty. He immediately set about putting his rational principles 93 00:07:45,050 --> 00:07:49,210 Speaker 1: into practice. Fletcher Christian was happy to join him, and 94 00:07:49,250 --> 00:07:53,090 Speaker 1: together they modified the ship, using the latest science to 95 00:07:53,130 --> 00:07:57,570 Speaker 1: create good airflow and lighting. They also converted the captain's 96 00:07:57,650 --> 00:08:01,090 Speaker 1: room into a huge nursery for the breadfruit seedlings they 97 00:08:01,130 --> 00:08:05,370 Speaker 1: would be transporting to the Caribbean. There were skylights and 98 00:08:05,450 --> 00:08:08,410 Speaker 1: a stove to keep the new plants warm, even a 99 00:08:08,450 --> 00:08:12,090 Speaker 1: clever rec cycling system for the fresh water that drained out. 100 00:08:14,770 --> 00:08:21,010 Speaker 1: In October seventeen eighty seven, they finally set sail. Before departure, 101 00:08:21,370 --> 00:08:25,010 Speaker 1: Fletcher Christian spent time with Bli's family and played with 102 00:08:25,050 --> 00:08:28,690 Speaker 1: his children. Quite likely they traveled to the ship together. 103 00:08:30,090 --> 00:08:34,090 Speaker 1: The voyage started as well as both had imagined. Bly 104 00:08:34,410 --> 00:08:37,730 Speaker 1: created an easier watch schedule, because, as he put it, 105 00:08:38,410 --> 00:08:43,530 Speaker 1: I have ever considered extra sleep among seamen as conducive 106 00:08:43,610 --> 00:08:47,490 Speaker 1: to health. It adds much to their content and cheerfulness. 107 00:08:48,810 --> 00:08:53,890 Speaker 1: Horpouses swam alongside the boat. One afternoon, a vast cloud 108 00:08:53,970 --> 00:08:58,730 Speaker 1: of butterflies blue passed to everyone's delight. There was dancing 109 00:08:58,810 --> 00:09:01,010 Speaker 1: and music on the deck when the weather was good, 110 00:09:01,450 --> 00:09:06,330 Speaker 1: for Bly had brought a fiddler along. Bly's ideas were 111 00:09:06,330 --> 00:09:09,050 Speaker 1: put to a sterner test when the weather got worse 112 00:09:09,650 --> 00:09:13,610 Speaker 1: and late at night in the South Atlantic, a catastrophic 113 00:09:13,690 --> 00:09:20,530 Speaker 1: wave poured tons of seawater in bly Rose to the challenge. 114 00:09:20,570 --> 00:09:24,370 Speaker 1: He selflessly vacated his cabin, turning it over to the 115 00:09:24,450 --> 00:09:28,330 Speaker 1: use of those poor fellows who had wet berths. He 116 00:09:28,450 --> 00:09:31,730 Speaker 1: arranged soaked wet clothes to be dried on the stove. 117 00:09:32,490 --> 00:09:38,050 Speaker 1: Fletcher Christian remained at Bly's side, and control and kindness 118 00:09:38,490 --> 00:09:46,530 Speaker 1: ensured everything ran smoothly, Almost everything that is well into 119 00:09:46,570 --> 00:09:50,410 Speaker 1: their voyage. The sailing master informed Bli that one of 120 00:09:50,450 --> 00:09:54,930 Speaker 1: the ordinary sailors, a twenty year old named Matthew Quintal, 121 00:09:55,410 --> 00:10:00,930 Speaker 1: had been insolent. The Royal Navy had a clear command structure, 122 00:10:01,210 --> 00:10:05,130 Speaker 1: so although Bli didn't see Quintal's insolence with his own eyes, 123 00:10:05,650 --> 00:10:09,690 Speaker 1: he had to accept this report. He was di appointed 124 00:10:10,810 --> 00:10:14,770 Speaker 1: until this afternoon. He wrote. I had hopes I could 125 00:10:14,810 --> 00:10:20,610 Speaker 1: have performed the voyage without punishment to anyone, but insolence 126 00:10:20,770 --> 00:10:23,770 Speaker 1: was a threat to the entire mission. He had to 127 00:10:23,850 --> 00:10:31,170 Speaker 1: maintain order, and that meant a vicious flogging. Matthew Quintal's 128 00:10:31,250 --> 00:10:35,650 Speaker 1: shirt was stripped off and his arms tied tight. The 129 00:10:35,850 --> 00:10:39,730 Speaker 1: Cato nine Tails was brought out, a fearsome whip with 130 00:10:39,970 --> 00:10:43,810 Speaker 1: nine knotted cords. It was designed to rip through the 131 00:10:43,890 --> 00:10:50,290 Speaker 1: skin and carve long slices where it fell. This was 132 00:10:50,330 --> 00:10:58,530 Speaker 1: an excruciating sentence, but when the flogging was done, that 133 00:10:58,690 --> 00:11:02,690 Speaker 1: was it. Quintal was resentful, of course, but the rest 134 00:11:02,770 --> 00:11:07,370 Speaker 1: of the long journey was easy. There were no more floggings. 135 00:11:07,930 --> 00:11:11,530 Speaker 1: Bligh had been angry at Quintal for disrupting his perfectly 136 00:11:11,650 --> 00:11:16,490 Speaker 1: organized system, but now his temper was gone. 137 00:11:17,490 --> 00:11:18,370 Speaker 2: The ship was. 138 00:11:18,450 --> 00:11:23,130 Speaker 1: Back to steady, running, hour after hour, cutting through the water, 139 00:11:23,890 --> 00:11:29,490 Speaker 1: its big sails, catching powerful winds and pulling them along. Finally, 140 00:11:30,410 --> 00:11:35,730 Speaker 1: after nearly twenty eight thousand miles, they arrived in Tahiti. 141 00:11:36,490 --> 00:11:40,290 Speaker 1: It was October seventeen eighty eight. They'd been at sea 142 00:11:40,410 --> 00:11:45,090 Speaker 1: for a full year. The bay they settled in was magnificent. 143 00:11:45,570 --> 00:11:48,970 Speaker 1: Canoes raced to their ship, eager for trade, and by 144 00:11:49,010 --> 00:11:53,970 Speaker 1: sunset there were hogs, fruits, and bright new textiles on board. 145 00:11:54,770 --> 00:11:58,610 Speaker 1: Bli's men were delighted. In England, there'd been among the 146 00:11:58,650 --> 00:12:02,850 Speaker 1: lowest of the low, most of them underweight, disfigured from 147 00:12:02,970 --> 00:12:08,930 Speaker 1: fights or accidents. Here, though, they were as gods. The 148 00:12:09,170 --> 00:12:13,450 Speaker 1: next few days a new rhythm started up. Ly went 149 00:12:13,490 --> 00:12:16,850 Speaker 1: ashore with the ship's botanist and made arrangements to locate 150 00:12:16,930 --> 00:12:21,170 Speaker 1: the breadfruit seedlings he needed. It would take several months 151 00:12:21,210 --> 00:12:23,210 Speaker 1: for them to grow enough to be brought to the 152 00:12:23,370 --> 00:12:28,010 Speaker 1: on board nursery, So the sailors dispersed into local villages, 153 00:12:28,410 --> 00:12:31,690 Speaker 1: taking up with local families, where they were quickly accepted. 154 00:12:32,290 --> 00:12:37,450 Speaker 1: They learned about surfing, flew kites, strolled along the perfect beaches. 155 00:12:38,850 --> 00:12:42,450 Speaker 1: Bly had brought his water color materials and was delighted 156 00:12:42,490 --> 00:12:44,730 Speaker 1: that he would have so much time to draw the 157 00:12:44,810 --> 00:12:48,650 Speaker 1: plant life and other scenes. He also wanted to improve 158 00:12:48,730 --> 00:12:51,850 Speaker 1: his own language skills and make what notes he could 159 00:12:52,130 --> 00:12:57,890 Speaker 1: on the culture. Life is good. Blye is content, The 160 00:12:58,010 --> 00:13:03,050 Speaker 1: crew is content. But what will Bly do as time 161 00:13:03,130 --> 00:13:08,250 Speaker 1: goes on and that crew is no longer under his control? 162 00:13:10,290 --> 00:13:21,490 Speaker 1: Cautionary tales will return in just a moment. So long 163 00:13:21,530 --> 00:13:25,770 Speaker 1: as Bly and his crew were focused entirely on the island, 164 00:13:26,410 --> 00:13:29,770 Speaker 1: the contrast with the life they'd left behind wasn't too 165 00:13:29,890 --> 00:13:33,530 Speaker 1: much of a problem. But they couldn't leave their ship, 166 00:13:33,970 --> 00:13:40,290 Speaker 1: HMS Bounty entirely uncared for. At one point, Bli brought 167 00:13:40,530 --> 00:13:43,370 Speaker 1: everyone back on board so they could move it from 168 00:13:43,410 --> 00:13:48,530 Speaker 1: their initial anchorage to another one nearby. But the lookout 169 00:13:48,690 --> 00:13:52,650 Speaker 1: was clumsy now, and the sailor who lowered weighted chains 170 00:13:52,690 --> 00:13:56,010 Speaker 1: to measure the depth was clumsy. The men in the 171 00:13:56,050 --> 00:14:00,410 Speaker 1: scouting boat that traveled immediately ahead of them were clumsy too. 172 00:14:00,970 --> 00:14:05,130 Speaker 1: Bly was supposed to be a master navigator. He was 173 00:14:05,210 --> 00:14:12,050 Speaker 1: proud of that, Yet now a sickening scrape as the 174 00:14:12,090 --> 00:14:18,450 Speaker 1: bounty's bough dragged along a reef. They were stuck, which 175 00:14:18,610 --> 00:14:22,570 Speaker 1: was embarrassing enough, not least because several of Bly's Tahitian 176 00:14:22,730 --> 00:14:26,730 Speaker 1: friends were on board. But then the weather began to change, 177 00:14:27,250 --> 00:14:31,970 Speaker 1: with dark clouds building quickly. There was a dangerous swell, 178 00:14:32,570 --> 00:14:36,530 Speaker 1: and that made everything worse. The storm was rocking the 179 00:14:36,570 --> 00:14:39,650 Speaker 1: ship against the sharp reef. If they didn't get the 180 00:14:39,650 --> 00:14:43,450 Speaker 1: ship off, it would be pushed harder and harder until 181 00:14:43,490 --> 00:14:47,130 Speaker 1: it was holed through. Then it would take in water 182 00:14:47,850 --> 00:14:53,730 Speaker 1: and sink. Blide did manage to float the ship free, 183 00:14:53,890 --> 00:14:57,450 Speaker 1: but the episode was dismaying. How could his men have 184 00:14:57,530 --> 00:15:02,410 Speaker 1: let this happen? By now, it was December seventeen eighty eight, 185 00:15:03,170 --> 00:15:07,930 Speaker 1: and soon all order began to break down. The crew 186 00:15:08,090 --> 00:15:11,810 Speaker 1: were in heaven. Here many seemed to have settled into 187 00:15:11,890 --> 00:15:16,250 Speaker 1: steady relationships, playing with the new step children they had acquired. 188 00:15:17,250 --> 00:15:21,210 Speaker 1: Most still slept on board and spent only the daytime 189 00:15:21,290 --> 00:15:25,970 Speaker 1: with these new families, but some would spend longer go 190 00:15:26,050 --> 00:15:31,690 Speaker 1: back to England, and all that would disappear. A few 191 00:15:31,730 --> 00:15:35,330 Speaker 1: weeks after the shift to a new anchorage, three of 192 00:15:35,330 --> 00:15:38,610 Speaker 1: the crew decided to make sure they weren't going to 193 00:15:38,650 --> 00:15:42,970 Speaker 1: be pulled away whatever happened. Late one night, they took 194 00:15:43,010 --> 00:15:48,610 Speaker 1: supplies and an entire arms chest and quietly left the ship. 195 00:15:50,890 --> 00:15:53,570 Speaker 1: They were soon tracked down, but the officer of the 196 00:15:53,610 --> 00:15:57,490 Speaker 1: watch had slept right through it. Bli lashed the three 197 00:15:57,530 --> 00:16:00,210 Speaker 1: deserters when they were brought back. He was just as 198 00:16:00,250 --> 00:16:02,970 Speaker 1: angry at the officer, putting him in irons for over 199 00:16:03,010 --> 00:16:06,930 Speaker 1: a week. Then Bli found out that no one had 200 00:16:06,970 --> 00:16:10,970 Speaker 1: been bringing the spare sales out for regular airing. That 201 00:16:11,130 --> 00:16:14,610 Speaker 1: was a greater degree of danger entirely. Every one of 202 00:16:14,650 --> 00:16:17,530 Speaker 1: his officers, every one of the ordinary sailors too, for 203 00:16:17,570 --> 00:16:21,650 Speaker 1: that matter, knew how crucial taking care of the sales was. 204 00:16:22,130 --> 00:16:24,490 Speaker 1: They'd need them for the near year of sailing to 205 00:16:24,530 --> 00:16:27,050 Speaker 1: get back home, but they'd been left to mill you 206 00:16:27,610 --> 00:16:32,530 Speaker 1: and some were even beginning to rot. Bli wrote, scarce 207 00:16:32,730 --> 00:16:35,770 Speaker 1: any neglect of duty can equal the criminality of this. 208 00:16:37,050 --> 00:16:40,250 Speaker 1: He realized they had to get off this blasted island 209 00:16:40,290 --> 00:16:45,330 Speaker 1: before matters got worse. But the breadfruit saplings still weren't ready, 210 00:16:45,850 --> 00:16:50,090 Speaker 1: so they had several more months to wait. Bly grew 211 00:16:50,450 --> 00:16:54,690 Speaker 1: ever more exasperated. So Isaac Newton's vision of a clean, 212 00:16:54,930 --> 00:16:59,930 Speaker 1: logical universe was so clear, so obvious. Bli had made 213 00:17:00,010 --> 00:17:02,890 Speaker 1: it come true on the voyage out, why were his 214 00:17:03,090 --> 00:17:07,970 Speaker 1: men letting it collapse here? In the months before they left? 215 00:17:08,330 --> 00:17:11,650 Speaker 1: He gave one of the sailor's twelve hard lashes with 216 00:17:11,690 --> 00:17:15,770 Speaker 1: a cat and nine tails for insolence. Another got twelve 217 00:17:15,850 --> 00:17:20,770 Speaker 1: lashes for letting natives steal a young cook's assistant, the 218 00:17:20,850 --> 00:17:25,010 Speaker 1: most innocuous of crewmen, was tied down and lashed for 219 00:17:25,130 --> 00:17:29,010 Speaker 1: neglecting his duty. Then the ship's butcher was just as 220 00:17:29,090 --> 00:17:36,970 Speaker 1: viciously flogged for suffering his cleaver to be stolen. Where 221 00:17:37,090 --> 00:17:41,090 Speaker 1: had the considerate Bly gone? For a perspective on that 222 00:17:41,210 --> 00:17:43,690 Speaker 1: question that there is no better person to ask than 223 00:17:43,850 --> 00:17:46,850 Speaker 1: David Bardanis, who wrote about the mutiny in his book 224 00:17:47,250 --> 00:17:51,050 Speaker 1: The Art of Fairness. David he began as a sensitive 225 00:17:51,050 --> 00:17:54,410 Speaker 1: watercolor painter. He turned into a brute. Where did Bli, 226 00:17:54,570 --> 00:17:57,690 Speaker 1: as the defender of enlightened captainship. 227 00:17:57,130 --> 00:18:01,010 Speaker 2: Go, Maybe that enlightened captain had never been there. Bli 228 00:18:01,290 --> 00:18:04,290 Speaker 2: cared about two things. He cared about his mission, and 229 00:18:04,370 --> 00:18:06,170 Speaker 2: he did indeed want to show that he could be 230 00:18:06,290 --> 00:18:10,490 Speaker 2: rational and scientific. But that was the sailors how he 231 00:18:10,610 --> 00:18:13,930 Speaker 2: dealt with them. The sailors were a means to that end. 232 00:18:14,730 --> 00:18:16,970 Speaker 1: This reminds me of the old saying that someone who 233 00:18:16,970 --> 00:18:20,250 Speaker 1: believes that honesty is the best policy isn't actually an 234 00:18:20,250 --> 00:18:23,410 Speaker 1: honest person. An honest person is honest, whether or not 235 00:18:23,650 --> 00:18:25,570 Speaker 1: he believes that honesty is the best policy. 236 00:18:25,970 --> 00:18:29,810 Speaker 2: That's exactly it. And Bli is someone who believes that 237 00:18:29,930 --> 00:18:34,690 Speaker 2: fairness is the best policy. He's not wholeheartedly committed to it. 238 00:18:34,890 --> 00:18:38,010 Speaker 2: He just thinks it will work, it'll be efficient, and 239 00:18:38,050 --> 00:18:42,130 Speaker 2: when the going gets tough, he abandons his previous ideas. 240 00:18:42,450 --> 00:18:44,370 Speaker 1: But this abandonment, it seems as sudden. 241 00:18:44,730 --> 00:18:47,930 Speaker 2: What's happening is a flip from one equilibrium to another. 242 00:18:48,770 --> 00:18:53,010 Speaker 2: When things were going well, Bli extended fairness and generosity. 243 00:18:53,490 --> 00:18:57,290 Speaker 2: The sailors responded with good cheer and hard work. But 244 00:18:57,370 --> 00:19:01,130 Speaker 2: when they got to Tahiti and they started resenting any discipline, 245 00:19:01,570 --> 00:19:06,290 Speaker 2: it began a downward spiral. The sailors were sullen that 246 00:19:06,370 --> 00:19:09,730 Speaker 2: made Bly harsh, that made the sailors more so, and 247 00:19:09,770 --> 00:19:12,770 Speaker 2: that made Bly even harsher. So it's a feedback loop, 248 00:19:13,130 --> 00:19:17,170 Speaker 2: exactly a feedback loop. In the last episode, we talked 249 00:19:17,170 --> 00:19:20,930 Speaker 2: about the ancient Rabbi Hillales great question of who are we, 250 00:19:21,690 --> 00:19:23,970 Speaker 2: and the idea was that it's not enough to only 251 00:19:23,970 --> 00:19:27,610 Speaker 2: be for yourself, but it's not enough either to exist 252 00:19:27,650 --> 00:19:31,610 Speaker 2: only for others. All of us struggle with the balance, 253 00:19:31,730 --> 00:19:34,610 Speaker 2: with getting it right. And the great insight I think is, 254 00:19:34,650 --> 00:19:37,090 Speaker 2: if there are no fixed answers. 255 00:19:37,290 --> 00:19:38,650 Speaker 1: Why are the non fixed answers? 256 00:19:39,210 --> 00:19:42,210 Speaker 2: I think it's because being fair or equitable it's not 257 00:19:42,290 --> 00:19:45,570 Speaker 2: a static disposition. It's not a part of our personality 258 00:19:45,770 --> 00:19:48,890 Speaker 2: or a set of rules that we can automatically follow. 259 00:19:49,450 --> 00:19:52,450 Speaker 2: It's a process, and it's a process that depends on 260 00:19:52,490 --> 00:19:56,170 Speaker 2: our circumstances. We all try to hold steady, to be constant, 261 00:19:56,410 --> 00:19:57,090 Speaker 2: but it's hard. 262 00:19:57,370 --> 00:20:00,450 Speaker 1: Well. So if Bly had never gone to Tahiti, maybe 263 00:20:00,490 --> 00:20:01,770 Speaker 1: the problem would never have arisen. 264 00:20:02,290 --> 00:20:05,890 Speaker 2: That would have been perfect, but that's not how life works. 265 00:20:06,450 --> 00:20:09,810 Speaker 2: We rarely have complete control over whi we end up. 266 00:20:10,330 --> 00:20:13,090 Speaker 2: And when Bli saw his sailors slip away from the 267 00:20:13,130 --> 00:20:16,170 Speaker 2: proper behavior that he had in mind. He became so 268 00:20:16,370 --> 00:20:18,170 Speaker 2: furious that he overshot. 269 00:20:18,610 --> 00:20:20,730 Speaker 1: Thank you, David, please stick around. I am going to 270 00:20:20,770 --> 00:20:27,090 Speaker 1: want your advice again, I am sure. Finally the breadfruit 271 00:20:27,210 --> 00:20:31,970 Speaker 1: saplings had grown enough, Bli's men loaded them on board, 272 00:20:32,290 --> 00:20:37,050 Speaker 1: and they weighed anchor the fourth of April seventeen eighty nine. 273 00:20:37,690 --> 00:20:40,250 Speaker 1: Blind knew he had to get the ship operating as 274 00:20:40,290 --> 00:20:43,170 Speaker 1: well as it had before. They'd be crossing half the 275 00:20:43,290 --> 00:20:46,410 Speaker 1: planet to get to the Caribbean with just one stop 276 00:20:46,450 --> 00:20:49,490 Speaker 1: at Cape Town along the way. He had the men 277 00:20:49,730 --> 00:20:53,930 Speaker 1: practice hard raising and shortening the sails on the masts. 278 00:20:54,530 --> 00:20:58,370 Speaker 1: He also switched them to shipboard rations, knowing the fresh 279 00:20:58,370 --> 00:21:02,650 Speaker 1: stock they'd brought from Tahiti would be needed later. Morale 280 00:21:03,130 --> 00:21:06,050 Speaker 1: was going to be important. I need to nurse my 281 00:21:06,170 --> 00:21:10,930 Speaker 1: people with care and attention, he wrote. Luckily, he still 282 00:21:10,930 --> 00:21:13,970 Speaker 1: had the fiddler, so there'd be music in the long 283 00:21:14,170 --> 00:21:17,490 Speaker 1: free hours on board. He explained, there would be the 284 00:21:17,530 --> 00:21:21,330 Speaker 1: same generous schedule, with more sleeping time than other ships, 285 00:21:21,690 --> 00:21:24,770 Speaker 1: and just as before, he had vacate his own bunk 286 00:21:24,970 --> 00:21:27,890 Speaker 1: for anyone who'd been caught up in storms on deck 287 00:21:28,330 --> 00:21:32,370 Speaker 1: and needed a dry place to rest. All of that 288 00:21:32,970 --> 00:21:35,370 Speaker 1: was just what he had done on the Atlantic run. 289 00:21:36,210 --> 00:21:39,930 Speaker 1: But the time in Tahiti had changed the men far 290 00:21:40,050 --> 00:21:45,130 Speaker 1: more than he could grasp. After six months in paradise, 291 00:21:45,810 --> 00:21:49,050 Speaker 1: who cared about a fiddler? And since the men had 292 00:21:49,090 --> 00:21:54,810 Speaker 1: been changed, that would change Bli too. Within a week 293 00:21:54,890 --> 00:21:58,330 Speaker 1: at sea, Fly had ordered another flogging of a seaman, 294 00:21:58,690 --> 00:22:02,770 Speaker 1: whom he charged with neglect of duty. Normally he could 295 00:22:02,770 --> 00:22:07,090 Speaker 1: have expected his officers to support him without hesitation in that, 296 00:22:07,570 --> 00:22:12,810 Speaker 1: but something was different, notably with his old friend Fletcher Christian. 297 00:22:13,890 --> 00:22:15,570 Speaker 1: He was not the same man as had been on 298 00:22:15,610 --> 00:22:20,730 Speaker 1: the voyage out the reason. Christian had spent almost every 299 00:22:20,850 --> 00:22:23,890 Speaker 1: night on shore and was leaving behind a woman he 300 00:22:23,930 --> 00:22:26,770 Speaker 1: had been close with and who was now pregnant with 301 00:22:26,850 --> 00:22:32,610 Speaker 1: their child. Bligh was frustrated, and that poured out he 302 00:22:32,730 --> 00:22:36,050 Speaker 1: cursed his men. Perhaps his pain was all the more 303 00:22:36,130 --> 00:22:38,890 Speaker 1: sharp for the loss of his friendship with Fletcher Christian. 304 00:22:39,770 --> 00:22:43,010 Speaker 1: One of the crew remembered. Whatever fault was found, mister 305 00:22:43,090 --> 00:22:45,650 Speaker 1: Christian was sure to bear the brunt of the captain's anger. 306 00:22:48,650 --> 00:22:53,930 Speaker 1: Christian hated it, begging Bli to stop, but bly was 307 00:22:54,090 --> 00:22:59,930 Speaker 1: past listening. In his log he wrote, such neglectful and 308 00:23:00,130 --> 00:23:03,610 Speaker 1: worthless petty officers I believe never were in a ship 309 00:23:03,810 --> 00:23:08,050 Speaker 1: as are in this harsher punishment would be needed. He 310 00:23:08,130 --> 00:23:13,050 Speaker 1: swore where when Bli cursed, he really cursed. Later, when 311 00:23:13,090 --> 00:23:17,130 Speaker 1: the Admiralty learned more of how Bli spoke when angry, 312 00:23:17,570 --> 00:23:22,290 Speaker 1: he was officially reprimanded for his immoderate use of language. 313 00:23:23,210 --> 00:23:28,410 Speaker 1: This is staggering given what was considered acceptable for sea 314 00:23:28,450 --> 00:23:33,890 Speaker 1: captains in the seventeen hundreds. The conflict boiled over when 315 00:23:33,890 --> 00:23:39,490 Speaker 1: they were nineteen days out. Coconuts were an important source 316 00:23:39,530 --> 00:23:43,330 Speaker 1: of fresh water, and Bli had a huge pile stacked 317 00:23:43,370 --> 00:23:46,690 Speaker 1: between the guns on the top deck. The officers were 318 00:23:46,730 --> 00:23:50,090 Speaker 1: responsible for guarding them. But then on the morning of 319 00:23:50,130 --> 00:23:55,170 Speaker 1: April twenty third, Bli noticed that the pile had shrunk. 320 00:23:56,410 --> 00:24:00,810 Speaker 1: Who had been stealing one after another? The officers said 321 00:24:00,850 --> 00:24:05,770 Speaker 1: they had no idea. Clearly, however, one or more of 322 00:24:05,810 --> 00:24:11,930 Speaker 1: them knew something. This was infuriating. They were defending each 323 00:24:11,930 --> 00:24:16,050 Speaker 1: other over remaining loyal to their captain. Bli started swearing 324 00:24:16,130 --> 00:24:19,290 Speaker 1: once again, God damn you, I'll sweat you for it. 325 00:24:19,410 --> 00:24:22,410 Speaker 1: You can all go to hell. This was very far 326 00:24:22,490 --> 00:24:26,690 Speaker 1: from the calm Captain Cook he had once admired. Nothing 327 00:24:26,730 --> 00:24:30,170 Speaker 1: made sense to him. Sensible procedures had worked perfectly on 328 00:24:30,210 --> 00:24:33,970 Speaker 1: the voyage out. Why couldn't they continue that way? Fletcher 329 00:24:34,050 --> 00:24:38,370 Speaker 1: Christian tried to intervene, but that just made Bly angrier. 330 00:24:38,890 --> 00:24:44,050 Speaker 1: He stormed to his cabin. According to the carpenter, A 331 00:24:44,330 --> 00:24:49,930 Speaker 1: William Purcell, Christian was in tears. What's the matter, mister Christian, 332 00:24:50,450 --> 00:24:54,330 Speaker 1: He asked, Can you ask me and hear the treatment 333 00:24:54,490 --> 00:25:00,330 Speaker 1: I receive? Christian answered. Purcell tried to console him, saying 334 00:25:00,370 --> 00:25:04,850 Speaker 1: that he too had suffered Bly's tongue lashings, but that 335 00:25:04,970 --> 00:25:08,490 Speaker 1: missed a difference between the two men. Since Purcell was 336 00:25:08,530 --> 00:25:12,970 Speaker 1: a carpenter, he was protected by an Admiralty warrant that 337 00:25:13,170 --> 00:25:17,010 Speaker 1: kept him from being flogged, but Christian was only an 338 00:25:17,210 --> 00:25:22,730 Speaker 1: acting lieutenant. His actual rank of master's mate meant that 339 00:25:22,850 --> 00:25:28,290 Speaker 1: he could be whipped. Christian couldn't bear to imagine this humiliation. 340 00:25:29,170 --> 00:25:32,930 Speaker 1: His brother was at Cambridge Down for goodness sake. If 341 00:25:32,970 --> 00:25:37,050 Speaker 1: I should speak to Bly as you do, Christian told Purcell, 342 00:25:37,570 --> 00:25:40,970 Speaker 1: he would probably break me and perhaps flog me. It 343 00:25:40,970 --> 00:25:45,170 Speaker 1: would be the death of us both. Blih was wild 344 00:25:45,250 --> 00:25:51,130 Speaker 1: with rage, Christian was sick with fear. The journey ahead 345 00:25:52,250 --> 00:25:58,610 Speaker 1: was due to last twelve more months. Cautionary tales will 346 00:25:58,650 --> 00:26:11,970 Speaker 1: return after the break. Most of the crew of the 347 00:26:12,010 --> 00:26:16,010 Speaker 1: bounty was on Fletcher Christian side. They couldn't bear to 348 00:26:16,090 --> 00:26:19,930 Speaker 1: leave Tahiti behind, nor did they want a year stuck 349 00:26:19,970 --> 00:26:25,890 Speaker 1: on board with the increasingly violent Captain Blind. But to 350 00:26:26,130 --> 00:26:32,170 Speaker 1: mutiny against the captain was immensely risky. Every sailor in 351 00:26:32,210 --> 00:26:36,530 Speaker 1: Britain knew that the nation depended on foreign trade that 352 00:26:37,050 --> 00:26:41,090 Speaker 1: depended on the navy, and the navy depended on orders 353 00:26:41,210 --> 00:26:47,730 Speaker 1: being followed. Break that and everything would crumble As a result. 354 00:26:48,050 --> 00:26:52,370 Speaker 1: The Royal Navy would chase any mutineers to the ends 355 00:26:52,490 --> 00:26:56,490 Speaker 1: of the earth, however long it took. However, many ships 356 00:26:56,530 --> 00:27:00,490 Speaker 1: needed to be sent, and mutineers, when found, would be 357 00:27:00,570 --> 00:27:05,530 Speaker 1: brought back in chains and condemned, and then hanged, their 358 00:27:05,570 --> 00:27:12,010 Speaker 1: bodies left to rot, dangling warning to anyone else. Despite 359 00:27:12,130 --> 00:27:16,970 Speaker 1: the incredible danger, most of the crew decided they had 360 00:27:17,050 --> 00:27:21,210 Speaker 1: to get rid of Captain Blind. Whence the mutiny we 361 00:27:21,250 --> 00:27:25,490 Speaker 1: began with Very early in the morning on Tuesday, April 362 00:27:25,690 --> 00:27:31,290 Speaker 1: twenty eighth, seventeen eighty nine, Fletcher Christian and several other 363 00:27:31,370 --> 00:27:35,250 Speaker 1: conspirators got hold of the ship's muskets and distributed them 364 00:27:35,250 --> 00:27:40,050 Speaker 1: to their fellow mutineers. Then they went to Bly's cabin. 365 00:27:41,090 --> 00:27:45,690 Speaker 1: Before long pandemonium had broken out, the entire ship awake, 366 00:27:46,050 --> 00:27:50,850 Speaker 1: and the captain held at gunpoint. That's when Bli called 367 00:27:50,850 --> 00:27:54,130 Speaker 1: out to Christian, for God's sake, drop it. You've danced 368 00:27:54,130 --> 00:27:57,130 Speaker 1: my children on your knee. But it was no use. 369 00:27:58,090 --> 00:28:01,170 Speaker 1: Christian ensured that Bly and the other crew men the 370 00:28:01,210 --> 00:28:06,050 Speaker 1: mutineers weren't convinced about, were pushed into the small open launch. 371 00:28:06,410 --> 00:28:11,050 Speaker 1: Bobbing alongside. One of those with Bly called up, pleading 372 00:28:11,090 --> 00:28:16,490 Speaker 1: for Fletcher Christian to stop, you know. Christian calmly replied 373 00:28:17,250 --> 00:28:21,330 Speaker 1: that Captain Bly has treated me like a dog I've 374 00:28:21,370 --> 00:28:26,090 Speaker 1: been in hell. Christian must have felt some guilt that 375 00:28:26,210 --> 00:28:28,930 Speaker 1: he let Bly and the eighteen men with him take 376 00:28:28,970 --> 00:28:34,370 Speaker 1: a compass, water writing equipment, some cutlasses, and a few 377 00:28:34,570 --> 00:28:38,250 Speaker 1: other items. One of the men in the small launch 378 00:28:38,490 --> 00:28:42,610 Speaker 1: tried to keep a rifle. Matthew Quintal, the young man 379 00:28:42,810 --> 00:28:45,970 Speaker 1: Bly had flogged first on the voyage out from Britain, 380 00:28:46,570 --> 00:28:50,170 Speaker 1: now had his chance. He was one hundred percent on 381 00:28:50,290 --> 00:28:56,290 Speaker 1: Christian's side and grabbed the gun back. The bounty sailed off. 382 00:28:57,090 --> 00:29:00,530 Speaker 1: Christian was going to look for an isolated island someplace 383 00:29:00,610 --> 00:29:04,210 Speaker 1: the Royal navy would never find them. Bly and his 384 00:29:04,370 --> 00:29:08,930 Speaker 1: men could only watch it recede, its sales raised to 385 00:29:09,170 --> 00:29:14,290 Speaker 1: catch the breeze, its deck high and majestic above the water. 386 00:29:16,290 --> 00:29:21,090 Speaker 1: Their own launch was completely different. It was small, crowded, 387 00:29:21,570 --> 00:29:25,810 Speaker 1: and rows only inches above the waterline. They couldn't head 388 00:29:25,850 --> 00:29:29,010 Speaker 1: back to Tahiti, for it was likely Christian might head 389 00:29:29,050 --> 00:29:34,050 Speaker 1: there first, leaving some armed men as a precaution. Everyone's 390 00:29:34,050 --> 00:29:37,250 Speaker 1: assumption was that leaving blyh and these loyalists in the 391 00:29:37,250 --> 00:29:42,210 Speaker 1: boat was simply a delayed death sentence. The nearest European 392 00:29:42,250 --> 00:29:48,410 Speaker 1: settlement was Dutch Temor, over three thousand miles away. No 393 00:29:48,690 --> 00:29:52,290 Speaker 1: open boat like this small launch had ever crossed such 394 00:29:52,290 --> 00:29:57,490 Speaker 1: a distance, not least without any proper map. Yet, facing 395 00:29:57,650 --> 00:30:02,890 Speaker 1: such hardship, Captain William Bly was in his element. He 396 00:30:02,970 --> 00:30:06,410 Speaker 1: had a mission, a hard one, admittedly, but he also 397 00:30:06,490 --> 00:30:10,250 Speaker 1: had some tools, oars, and a company for materials to 398 00:30:10,330 --> 00:30:15,210 Speaker 1: keep up a mast, and eighteen men. Yelling and cursing 399 00:30:15,290 --> 00:30:21,170 Speaker 1: would do nothing here but calm, analysis and rational, consistent action. 400 00:30:22,130 --> 00:30:25,410 Speaker 1: He began a journal. As soon as I had time 401 00:30:25,450 --> 00:30:30,610 Speaker 1: to reflect, Bly wrote, I found my mind most wonderfully supported, 402 00:30:31,050 --> 00:30:36,650 Speaker 1: and began to conceive hopes t Moor was three thousand 403 00:30:36,730 --> 00:30:43,530 Speaker 1: miles away London twelve thousand. Get there, explain what happened 404 00:30:43,570 --> 00:30:49,650 Speaker 1: to the admiralty. He could start again Almost instantly, the 405 00:30:49,810 --> 00:30:54,850 Speaker 1: old structure of command reappeared. That's because everyone in the 406 00:30:54,890 --> 00:30:58,890 Speaker 1: boat knew that only Bligh had even the faintest chance 407 00:30:58,970 --> 00:31:03,810 Speaker 1: of navigating their way back to safety. His personality flipped back. 408 00:31:04,450 --> 00:31:07,730 Speaker 1: In this setting, there was nothing to thwart his desire 409 00:31:08,130 --> 00:31:12,770 Speaker 1: to show benevolent and rationality could work. Bly worked out 410 00:31:12,810 --> 00:31:17,410 Speaker 1: an ingenious way of stretching taut cloths above the launch's edge, 411 00:31:17,970 --> 00:31:21,410 Speaker 1: raising the sides by several inches to help keep the waves. 412 00:31:21,410 --> 00:31:24,850 Speaker 1: At day, he encouraged his men to tell stories about 413 00:31:24,850 --> 00:31:28,530 Speaker 1: their past, joining in to tell his own. At night, 414 00:31:29,050 --> 00:31:34,090 Speaker 1: he led boat wide singing. Bly also ensured their food 415 00:31:34,130 --> 00:31:38,290 Speaker 1: supplies were safely locked in the carpenter's chest, and created 416 00:31:38,370 --> 00:31:42,650 Speaker 1: scales from coconut shells to weigh it out. Best of all, 417 00:31:43,010 --> 00:31:46,770 Speaker 1: he helped the men sew a raggedy Union Jack flag 418 00:31:47,050 --> 00:31:50,090 Speaker 1: out of scraps of signal flags found at the bottom 419 00:31:50,130 --> 00:31:53,530 Speaker 1: of the launch. It was a reminder of home, and 420 00:31:53,610 --> 00:31:57,370 Speaker 1: in another way of boosting their confidence they would need it. 421 00:31:57,610 --> 00:32:01,330 Speaker 1: He said to properly identify themselves. When they reached port, 422 00:32:02,730 --> 00:32:08,010 Speaker 1: it worked well. After weeks of storms and constantly low rations, 423 00:32:08,570 --> 00:32:13,810 Speaker 1: the men heard a strange roaring sound. Bli realized this 424 00:32:13,970 --> 00:32:18,410 Speaker 1: meant they were almost upon the Great Barrier reef. They 425 00:32:18,450 --> 00:32:21,370 Speaker 1: needed to find an opening, and by now his men 426 00:32:21,450 --> 00:32:25,290 Speaker 1: were unified to do exactly what he ordered. He had 427 00:32:25,330 --> 00:32:28,450 Speaker 1: them row parallel to the reef as fast as possible, 428 00:32:28,890 --> 00:32:32,130 Speaker 1: till suddenly, when he identified what looked like an opening, 429 00:32:32,610 --> 00:32:39,090 Speaker 1: he had them turn hard to cut through it. Soon 430 00:32:39,210 --> 00:32:43,610 Speaker 1: they were in calmer water and came to an island. There, 431 00:32:44,290 --> 00:32:49,530 Speaker 1: safe discipline quickly broke down, and the helpful encouraging William 432 00:32:49,570 --> 00:32:56,290 Speaker 1: bly became once again a furious man. Admittedly he was provoked. 433 00:32:56,890 --> 00:32:59,730 Speaker 1: The prime rule he set out when they landed was 434 00:32:59,770 --> 00:33:04,130 Speaker 1: that they must keep any fires small in case potentially 435 00:33:04,210 --> 00:33:10,290 Speaker 1: dangerous locals saw their camp. Almost immediately, Sailor started a 436 00:33:10,330 --> 00:33:14,290 Speaker 1: fire that blew out of control, sparking a grass blaze 437 00:33:14,330 --> 00:33:17,570 Speaker 1: that was visible for miles. Another party had been sent 438 00:33:17,650 --> 00:33:21,090 Speaker 1: out for turtles, but as the fire raged, they ran 439 00:33:21,210 --> 00:33:24,010 Speaker 1: back to help put it out, and so they brought 440 00:33:24,050 --> 00:33:29,250 Speaker 1: back no food. At another island, after Bli explained they 441 00:33:29,330 --> 00:33:33,170 Speaker 1: needed to share any food they found. One man tried 442 00:33:33,290 --> 00:33:37,250 Speaker 1: secretly to go hunting just on his own. BLI beat 443 00:33:37,330 --> 00:33:41,130 Speaker 1: him when he found out. Then the carpenter, William Purcell, 444 00:33:41,370 --> 00:33:44,690 Speaker 1: also went out foraging, and when he came back, he 445 00:33:44,770 --> 00:33:47,770 Speaker 1: insisted even more that he wasn't going to share food 446 00:33:47,810 --> 00:33:53,450 Speaker 1: he'd found. Bly yelled at him. Pacell yelled back. Bly 447 00:33:53,810 --> 00:33:57,810 Speaker 1: had had enough. I determined to strike a final blow, 448 00:33:58,130 --> 00:34:01,410 Speaker 1: and either to preserve my command or die in the attempt. 449 00:34:01,650 --> 00:34:04,410 Speaker 1: Seizing a cutlass, I ordered him to take hold of 450 00:34:04,450 --> 00:34:11,050 Speaker 1: another and defend himself. That's Bly's version, but in a 451 00:34:11,090 --> 00:34:15,090 Speaker 1: crew member's account, Bly was almost crazed, and when the 452 00:34:15,130 --> 00:34:17,570 Speaker 1: men tried to call him off, he threatened them with 453 00:34:17,650 --> 00:34:22,370 Speaker 1: death if they tried to intervene. Luckily, Purcell the carpenter 454 00:34:22,650 --> 00:34:27,050 Speaker 1: gave in before anyone was killed. And then when they 455 00:34:27,090 --> 00:34:31,490 Speaker 1: all returned to the launch, everything flipped back again. No 456 00:34:31,530 --> 00:34:35,130 Speaker 1: one could start unapproved fires on their tiny boat, no 457 00:34:35,170 --> 00:34:37,570 Speaker 1: one was going to secretly search for their own food, 458 00:34:38,090 --> 00:34:42,170 Speaker 1: and everyone depended on Bly to get them back. Although 459 00:34:42,170 --> 00:34:45,330 Speaker 1: there were a few complaints at how low their rations were, 460 00:34:45,890 --> 00:34:50,770 Speaker 1: no problems more serious than that arose. The entire launch 461 00:34:51,010 --> 00:34:55,130 Speaker 1: went back to singing and storytelling, with Bly encouraging his 462 00:34:55,210 --> 00:34:59,210 Speaker 1: men and tenderly taking care of those who fell ill. 463 00:35:00,250 --> 00:35:04,450 Speaker 1: Until that is they finally arrived in the safely populated 464 00:35:04,530 --> 00:35:09,770 Speaker 1: island of Timor, with its large European settlement. Lye had 465 00:35:09,810 --> 00:35:14,010 Speaker 1: accomplished one of the greatest feats of open boat navigation 466 00:35:14,370 --> 00:35:18,450 Speaker 1: ever recorded, But once on the way back to England, 467 00:35:18,850 --> 00:35:22,090 Speaker 1: he and his men began arguing again, so much that 468 00:35:22,210 --> 00:35:25,850 Speaker 1: Bly ended up having the carpenter Percell and another sailor 469 00:35:26,290 --> 00:35:30,130 Speaker 1: arrested at bayonet point and held in irons for almost 470 00:35:30,170 --> 00:35:37,650 Speaker 1: a month. When they finally reached Britain, the Royal Navy 471 00:35:37,770 --> 00:35:42,530 Speaker 1: sent out teams to hunt the mutineers. A few were 472 00:35:42,650 --> 00:35:47,290 Speaker 1: caught and ended up being hanged in London. Fletcher, Christian 473 00:35:47,410 --> 00:35:50,970 Speaker 1: and several of the others got away safe at the 474 00:35:51,050 --> 00:35:56,210 Speaker 1: isolated Pitcairn Island, where some of their descendants survived to 475 00:35:56,250 --> 00:36:02,010 Speaker 1: this day. Blie himself undertook a second trip to Tahiti, 476 00:36:02,410 --> 00:36:06,810 Speaker 1: this time with a substantial armed marine guard to complete 477 00:36:06,850 --> 00:36:11,330 Speaker 1: his mission of collecting breadfruits links, since there was no 478 00:36:11,410 --> 00:36:14,970 Speaker 1: threat to his authority. Those voyages went well, and he 479 00:36:15,090 --> 00:36:18,490 Speaker 1: was back to being as reasonable and helpful as he 480 00:36:18,490 --> 00:36:29,050 Speaker 1: had been at his best, So what are the lessons? Well, 481 00:36:29,090 --> 00:36:32,650 Speaker 1: this and the last two episodes of Cautionary Tales Investigating 482 00:36:32,730 --> 00:36:36,570 Speaker 1: Fairness drew on my friend David bandanas book The Art 483 00:36:36,850 --> 00:36:39,930 Speaker 1: of Fairness, and David is back with me now. David, 484 00:36:40,530 --> 00:36:44,570 Speaker 1: after everything you've read and written about Captain BLI, what 485 00:36:44,730 --> 00:36:46,690 Speaker 1: would you make of him as a person? 486 00:36:47,690 --> 00:36:50,770 Speaker 2: You know, at first I thought the way Bligh changed 487 00:36:50,970 --> 00:36:55,010 Speaker 2: was pretty bizarre, but then I realized we all change 488 00:36:55,250 --> 00:36:59,210 Speaker 2: at least a little bit. It really does depend on circumstances. 489 00:37:00,050 --> 00:37:03,130 Speaker 2: The big question is how much? And that's where I saw. 490 00:37:03,290 --> 00:37:05,770 Speaker 2: That's something we've both thought about. Comes up. 491 00:37:05,850 --> 00:37:06,210 Speaker 1: What's that? 492 00:37:06,970 --> 00:37:09,770 Speaker 2: Well? In both the writings we do we card to 493 00:37:09,810 --> 00:37:14,050 Speaker 2: tease out rational rules. It's the Enlightenment ideal that Captain 494 00:37:14,050 --> 00:37:17,290 Speaker 2: Cook had. It's what William Blyi had too when he 495 00:37:17,370 --> 00:37:20,810 Speaker 2: wasn't acting up for them. It was about ventilation and 496 00:37:20,890 --> 00:37:21,810 Speaker 2: sleeping schedules. 497 00:37:21,810 --> 00:37:24,850 Speaker 1: And they're like, oh, for us, it's about behavior economics. 498 00:37:24,570 --> 00:37:28,290 Speaker 2: Exactly, And I wonder we try to find these insights, 499 00:37:28,330 --> 00:37:31,290 Speaker 2: these principles that can help people. It's in our books, 500 00:37:31,370 --> 00:37:34,530 Speaker 2: it's in all the Questionary Tales. But what makes the 501 00:37:34,570 --> 00:37:39,690 Speaker 2: final step happen? What makes people actually engage with those insights, 502 00:37:40,130 --> 00:37:42,210 Speaker 2: and especially when they're under stress. 503 00:37:42,290 --> 00:37:45,490 Speaker 1: Yeah, stress, I think is a key idea. It sounds 504 00:37:45,490 --> 00:37:49,130 Speaker 1: so simple, but sometimes you just need to mentally prepare 505 00:37:49,170 --> 00:37:52,890 Speaker 1: yourself for this. You need to mentally rehearse loyal as 506 00:37:52,890 --> 00:37:55,810 Speaker 1: subscribers who who subscribed to pushkin plus will have heard 507 00:37:55,850 --> 00:37:58,130 Speaker 1: the story of the Tenerief air crash. There was a 508 00:37:58,170 --> 00:38:01,010 Speaker 1: plane on fire on the runway and some people got 509 00:38:01,010 --> 00:38:05,130 Speaker 1: out and some people just froze. One of the explanations 510 00:38:05,130 --> 00:38:07,450 Speaker 1: for why some people got out was because they'd thought about, well, 511 00:38:07,450 --> 00:38:09,090 Speaker 1: what happens if there is a problem, where are they 512 00:38:09,130 --> 00:38:11,690 Speaker 1: emergency exits? What would I do? If you thought about it? 513 00:38:11,730 --> 00:38:15,690 Speaker 1: Your mind under pressure may grab one of these useful scripts. 514 00:38:16,170 --> 00:38:18,250 Speaker 1: If you haven't given it any thought and you're under 515 00:38:18,290 --> 00:38:20,570 Speaker 1: intense pressure, then your mind comes up with nothing and 516 00:38:20,610 --> 00:38:24,010 Speaker 1: it's just like you're spinning and you're in neutral. So 517 00:38:24,370 --> 00:38:27,370 Speaker 1: thinking through I'm going to have this conversation with a 518 00:38:27,410 --> 00:38:31,730 Speaker 1: doctor about this diagnosis that I'm worried about. How do 519 00:38:31,810 --> 00:38:35,130 Speaker 1: I want that conversation to go? Or somebody might phone 520 00:38:35,170 --> 00:38:37,290 Speaker 1: me and try to con me, or somebody might send 521 00:38:37,290 --> 00:38:39,010 Speaker 1: me an email and try to con me What am 522 00:38:39,050 --> 00:38:41,090 Speaker 1: I going to do if that happens. If you recognize 523 00:38:41,090 --> 00:38:43,930 Speaker 1: the patterns, it can really help. I guess Bli didn't 524 00:38:43,970 --> 00:38:46,090 Speaker 1: really think it through. That was one of his problems. 525 00:38:46,090 --> 00:38:48,050 Speaker 1: He didn't think through, or didn't seem to think through, 526 00:38:48,090 --> 00:38:51,210 Speaker 1: what is going to happen, if this is really going 527 00:38:51,250 --> 00:38:52,970 Speaker 1: to fall apart? What is going to happen if my 528 00:38:53,090 --> 00:38:54,770 Speaker 1: men don't respond to my rules? 529 00:38:55,090 --> 00:38:58,210 Speaker 2: You know what it was? Bli had a single principle, 530 00:38:58,450 --> 00:39:01,930 Speaker 2: be rational and sensible. It would work for him, clearly, 531 00:39:02,050 --> 00:39:04,930 Speaker 2: it would work for everybody. All he thought about was 532 00:39:04,970 --> 00:39:07,810 Speaker 2: that rule. It's like standing on a mountain and far 533 00:39:08,090 --> 00:39:10,850 Speaker 2: far away in the disc since there's plateaus stretching on, 534 00:39:11,210 --> 00:39:14,170 Speaker 2: but you can't see him. For Blig, those plateaus were 535 00:39:14,170 --> 00:39:18,130 Speaker 2: the consequences. He wasn't thinking about the consequences he had 536 00:39:18,170 --> 00:39:21,690 Speaker 2: this rule. However, the way that other people felt when 537 00:39:21,690 --> 00:39:25,370 Speaker 2: he enacted the rule, that was not his problem. But 538 00:39:25,410 --> 00:39:28,290 Speaker 2: of course it came back to leave them Bob being 539 00:39:28,370 --> 00:39:30,690 Speaker 2: up and down in a little boat in the sea. 540 00:39:31,690 --> 00:39:34,930 Speaker 1: Where we have now had three episodes of cautionary tales. 541 00:39:34,970 --> 00:39:37,330 Speaker 1: We've investigated fairness in all three of them. We're going 542 00:39:37,370 --> 00:39:40,090 Speaker 1: to have one more. The final of this series looking 543 00:39:40,130 --> 00:39:44,010 Speaker 1: at one further story from David Bandanas's writings, and in 544 00:39:44,010 --> 00:39:46,810 Speaker 1: that story, we're going to see how one woman wielded 545 00:39:46,850 --> 00:39:50,050 Speaker 1: the techniques of fairness to shift the course of the 546 00:39:50,130 --> 00:39:54,010 Speaker 1: largest empire the world has ever seen. Thank you, David 547 00:39:54,010 --> 00:40:01,730 Speaker 1: berdanis join us next time on Cautionary Tales. Cautionary Tales 548 00:40:01,770 --> 00:40:05,410 Speaker 1: is written by me Tim Harford with Andrew Wright. This 549 00:40:05,690 --> 00:40:10,250 Speaker 1: mini series is based on David Bandanas's book Art of Fairness, 550 00:40:10,370 --> 00:40:13,530 Speaker 1: The Power of Decency in a World Turned Mean, and 551 00:40:13,610 --> 00:40:17,130 Speaker 1: it was written with David Bandanas himself. For a full 552 00:40:17,210 --> 00:40:20,330 Speaker 1: list of our sources, see the show notes at Timharford 553 00:40:20,410 --> 00:40:24,090 Speaker 1: dot com. The show is produced by Alice Fines, with 554 00:40:24,250 --> 00:40:27,490 Speaker 1: Marilyn Rust. The sound design and original music for the 555 00:40:27,490 --> 00:40:32,850 Speaker 1: work of Pascal Wise. Sarah Nix edited the script. Cautionary 556 00:40:32,850 --> 00:40:36,530 Speaker 1: Tales features the voice talents of Ben Crowe, Melanie Guttridge, 557 00:40:36,650 --> 00:40:41,810 Speaker 1: Stella Harford, Jemma Saunders, and Rufus Wright. The show wouldn't 558 00:40:41,810 --> 00:40:45,410 Speaker 1: have been possible without the work of Jacob Weisberg, Ryan Dilly, 559 00:40:45,650 --> 00:40:50,930 Speaker 1: Greta Cohen, Eric Sandler, Carrie Brody, Christina Sullivan, Kira Posey 560 00:40:51,410 --> 00:40:56,250 Speaker 1: and Owen Miller. Cautionary Tales is a production of Pushkin Industries. 561 00:40:56,770 --> 00:41:00,530 Speaker 1: It's recorded at ward Or Studios in London by Tom Garret. 562 00:41:01,290 --> 00:41:04,530 Speaker 1: If you like the show, please remember to share, rate 563 00:41:04,770 --> 00:41:07,370 Speaker 1: and review. It doesn't really make a difference to us 564 00:41:07,610 --> 00:41:10,250 Speaker 1: and if you want to hear the SHO show ad free, 565 00:41:10,770 --> 00:41:13,490 Speaker 1: sign up to Pushkin Plus on the show page on 566 00:41:13,530 --> 00:41:19,850 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or at pushkin dot Fm, slash plus