Speaker 1: Warning.
Speaker 2: Today's episode canday spoilers for season one of Daredevil, which
Speaker 2: originally ed on Netflix but you can currently find on
Speaker 2: Disney Plus.
Speaker 3: Hello.
Speaker 2: My name is Jason Concepcion and I'm Rosy Night, and.
Speaker 4: Welcome back the next.
Speaker 2: Version of the podcast where we done deep into your
Speaker 2: favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture. Company from Myra Podcast,
Speaker 2: where we're bringing you three episodes every week Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,
Speaker 2: plus a news episode on weekend.
Speaker 3: In today's episode, you've been asking for it ever since
Speaker 3: we first began an Xtra Vision many moons ago. In
Speaker 3: this long period of time that we're all living through,
Speaker 3: we are going back to twenty fifteen to the now
Speaker 3: canon Netflix Dead Evil series and we will be recapping
Speaker 3: it and talking about it and digging in in preparation
Speaker 3: for the upcoming sequel series on Disney Plus Dad Evil
Speaker 3: Born Again.
Speaker 2: Let's dive in first some context on Daredevil. The character
Speaker 2: debuted in nineteen sixty four creation of Stan Lee and
Speaker 2: Bill Everett, appearing in It's his own solo title of
Speaker 2: just immediately Off Jump Daredevil Number one. And one thing
Speaker 2: that is immediately clear from reading back to you know
Speaker 2: the original Daredevil runs is how much this is an
Speaker 2: attempt to clone Spider Man.
Speaker 3: Dude, it's so funny, Like they are like, what if
Speaker 3: he's like Spider Man?
Speaker 4: But he's like serious, what if he's Spider Man?
Speaker 3: They like something weird and bad happened to him, Like
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 4: I love a street level hero.
Speaker 3: But as we know, it is quite notorious in the
Speaker 3: comic book industry that kind of every ten years Marvel
Speaker 3: will try and remake Spider Man.
Speaker 4: And the most successful version.
Speaker 3: They've had of it is Kamala Khan, where they actually
Speaker 3: created a completely different, completely new street level Haroy that
Speaker 3: people fell for. But yes, that Devil's definitely in that space,
Speaker 3: and I think that is why there's a lot of
Speaker 3: crossover between the characters.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that you find him and Spider Man fighting about.
Speaker 3: But something important about that devil. He's Catholic, Okay, and
Speaker 3: that's gonna.
Speaker 4: Come off for altholic.
Speaker 2: He's very Irish Catholic. The show Daredevil the adaptation was
Speaker 2: released in twenty fifteen on Netflix, uh and it was
Speaker 2: helmed by Showner Or Stephens de Night, who gave us Spartacus.
Speaker 2: The Spartacus television show on Stars.
Speaker 4: The League Gets Stars Network.
Speaker 2: The beleaguered, very much beleaguered. Stars Network and Daredevil immediately
Speaker 2: made an impression on people because of its incredible action scenes,
Speaker 2: including the now iconic one shot Ish Hallway fight from
Speaker 2: episode three of season one. It's fantastic. I think it's
Speaker 2: what's so striking about it watching a bag is it's
Speaker 2: like you don't see superheroes get tired.
Speaker 1: And I love that about Matt Murty.
Speaker 4: Yah, he is fucking tied, like he's tired.
Speaker 1: I'm tied halfway.
Speaker 2: I'm halfway through this fight and I am exhaust something else.
Speaker 3: I think that probably really spoke to people, and that
Speaker 3: interestingly that MCU had set people up to take in
Speaker 3: in a way they were maybe more open to after
Speaker 3: the kind of lead into the Avengers movies.
Speaker 4: This is an incredibly slow bun show.
Speaker 3: It sets up a lot of the which have now
Speaker 3: become memes, but a lot of the tropes of a
Speaker 3: prestige TV adaptation of a comic book or a book
Speaker 3: that you love. This man does not get his costume
Speaker 3: till the last episode, Like he doesn't get the dead
Speaker 3: of a costume till the last episode. We don't mean
Speaker 3: Wilson Fisk till the end of episode three properly where
Speaker 3: it's revealed that he is the villain. There is so
Speaker 3: much work and patience that is put into this show,
Speaker 3: and we will talk about how that works good and
Speaker 3: bad as we get into it. But I do think
Speaker 3: that at the time there was nothing else like it.
Speaker 3: I so deeply remember the reactions by friends. It's still
Speaker 3: at the time when Netflix's binge model is seen as.
Speaker 4: A positive thing.
Speaker 3: It's also, you know, three years after the Avengers and
Speaker 3: suddenly we're getting to see like, how does a normal
Speaker 3: person deal with living in New York during the Chatari invasion?
Speaker 4: And what I think is really.
Speaker 3: Interesting is the MCU and the creators and Drew Goddard
Speaker 3: and Steven st.
Speaker 4: Knight.
Speaker 3: Their response was, well, it would obviously be really hard.
Speaker 3: Here are the tough, working class neighborhoods that have been destroyed.
Speaker 3: Which is really funny because now, almost ten years later,
Speaker 3: we all know thanks to many hilarious TikTok creators and stuff,
Speaker 3: that the way we all see it as like, oh Man,
Speaker 3: like Superman, smash my car again, back all my car insurance,
Speaker 3: Like there's a more comedic read that I think that
Speaker 3: fans enjoy. But it was very different to see a
Speaker 3: show like this that features so many different comic book
Speaker 3: characters and it just plays it entirely serious and straight
Speaker 3: the whole way down.
Speaker 2: Very straight, completely grounded, very very little superpowers in evidence,
Speaker 2: although of course Matt has heightened senses, but you forget
Speaker 2: about them a lot. This show is connected to the
Speaker 2: Wider MCU and was seen as in very interesting ways,
Speaker 2: and it was seen as being something like a farm system.
Speaker 2: In twenty thirteen, then CEO and now current CEO again
Speaker 2: Bob Eiger said that, you know, stuff works on Netflix.
Speaker 2: Quote it's quite possible they could become feature films, which
Speaker 2: a Serrando's also echoed, So that was kind of seen
Speaker 2: as the model. Hey, if this hits there, maybe we
Speaker 2: bring them in to the wider MCU, which was then
Speaker 2: reaching of truly frothy boil.
Speaker 1: Jeff Lobe, who was.
Speaker 2: Kind of at the helm of all things Marvel Television
Speaker 2: live action television for a long time, said in twenty
Speaker 2: fourteen that quote, within the Marvel universe, there are thousands
Speaker 2: of heroes, but the Avengers are here to save the universe,
Speaker 2: and dared Devil is here just to save your neighborhood.
Speaker 2: It does take place in the Marvel cinematic universe. It's
Speaker 2: all connected, but that doesn't necessarily mean we could look
Speaker 2: up in the sky and see Iron Man. It's a
Speaker 2: different part of New York, but we have not that
Speaker 2: we have not yet seen in the Marvel movies. Also,
Speaker 2: Jeff Lobe was also you know, running Agents of Shield
Speaker 2: around this time too, which was connected ish.
Speaker 3: And at some point it seemed very connected, but then
Speaker 3: that was kind of pulling and.
Speaker 2: Other times was like nah, yeah, yeah exactly. And then
Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen, Lobe talked about crossovers, whether we'd ever
Speaker 2: see crossovers from MCU to ABC tonight.
Speaker 3: And he basically by that point, which I think is interesting,
Speaker 3: is over those two years, it's gone from yeah, this
Speaker 3: could be a thing that will happen to now kind
Speaker 3: of being like we need to earn it, we don't want.
Speaker 4: To push it, you know.
Speaker 3: And he talked about how Captain America doing the crossover
Speaker 3: in Thought two that kind of funny. Loki cameo Bruce
Speaker 3: Banner at the end of Iron Man three, and the
Speaker 3: audience needs to understand who the characters are and what
Speaker 3: the world is before you start co mingling him, is
Speaker 3: what he said, And it's funny because Jeff Loo, as
Speaker 3: much as I hate to give him any credit, he
Speaker 3: was obviously onto something because it took nine years.
Speaker 4: It took nine years. Well, you know, love.
Speaker 2: We'll get into this maybe in a different episode later,
Speaker 2: but with Jeff Lobe, the highs are really high and
Speaker 2: the lows are really correct.
Speaker 4: On every level. I think about his own career level.
Speaker 2: Whether it's comics or television, it's it's both.
Speaker 4: The things he gave you, you know.
Speaker 2: Some of the greatest Batman's stories you've ever seen.
Speaker 1: And he also.
Speaker 2: Gave you, you know, the Ultimates three, which is one of
Speaker 2: the worst things that anybody's ever seen. Anyway, let's get
Speaker 2: into Daredevil Season one the recap.
Speaker 1: It opens in a post Battle.
Speaker 2: Of New York World. New York is still recovering from
Speaker 2: the Chatari invasion, and this is the perfect time for
Speaker 2: organized crime gangs in New York to start making moves.
Speaker 2: You know, construction is needed, new investment is needed, New
Speaker 2: money is pouring in government money that.
Speaker 1: Means lots to steal.
Speaker 2: And there's really no one looking out for the little
Speaker 2: guy except for.
Speaker 4: Matt Murdoch uh.
Speaker 2: A blind lawyer by day crime fighter by night, powered
Speaker 2: by heightened senses, and also, as we as he mentions,
Speaker 2: and as many other characters mentioned throughout this season, an
Speaker 2: immensely powerful sense of catholic.
Speaker 4: This man is so guilty at all times.
Speaker 3: Yes, his Catholic guilt is so strong, and you know what,
Speaker 3: I just want to give him a hug and says, Okay,
Speaker 3: it's okay, Matt, You're doing all right.
Speaker 2: Matt is the son of a former boxer who passed away,
Speaker 2: and he spends his days practicing law with his best
Speaker 2: friend Foggy, defending you know, the poorest inhabitants citizens of
Speaker 2: New York City and mostly his Hell's Kitchen neighborhood, and
Speaker 2: at night he cosplays basically as Batman.
Speaker 3: And just kneels a show people on the streets, people
Speaker 3: in that And this is where immediately you feel like
Speaker 3: something is completely different from everything else you've seen in
Speaker 3: the MCU before and even still really to this day,
Speaker 3: Like the violence in this show is so brutal and so.
Speaker 4: Realistic, and it's much more in that.
Speaker 3: You know, there's no surprise that they have a world
Speaker 3: famous you know, corridor scene in this because it's very feels,
Speaker 3: very heavily influenced by movies like Old Boy, these kind
Speaker 3: of like revenge thrillers where you are always punching two
Speaker 3: times great, Oh my god, I love that movie. But
Speaker 3: like there's so much anger in every punch that Matt
Speaker 3: packs that he is often going too far and he
Speaker 3: is often fighting too hard, and that is one of
Speaker 3: the things he has to struggle with is what does
Speaker 3: it really mean to be a vigilante who helps people
Speaker 3: or just to be someone who's out there taking out
Speaker 3: your anger and rage on people who are kind of
Speaker 3: trying to survive in the streets.
Speaker 2: Put a pinion that we're going to talk more about
Speaker 2: these actions scenes because they are remarkable and continue to
Speaker 2: be they really do.
Speaker 1: Pre season of Daredevil enter Karen Page.
Speaker 2: She is kind of like a core brit drone working
Speaker 2: in the legal department who finds herself kind of unwinningly
Speaker 2: entangled in this corporate conspiracy involving this business called United Allied.
Speaker 2: She has uncovered some stuff Union excuse me, Union Allied,
Speaker 2: and she's uncovered some stuff kind of unwittingly that turns
Speaker 2: out to be evidence of massive, massive organized crime corruption.
Speaker 2: She is almost framed for murdered, for murdered but then
Speaker 2: almost murdered herself because she has uncovered all but she's
Speaker 2: having a really bad time. But she's saved by Matt,
Speaker 2: both as Daredevil and as a lawyer and as an employer.
Speaker 2: Matt and Foggy take her case, and they also give
Speaker 2: her a job and say, you know, well, we need
Speaker 2: some help at the at the law firm, and also
Speaker 2: Foggy quickly develops a crush on her, and this sets
Speaker 2: off a chain of events that quickly draws the attention
Speaker 2: of numerous organized crime groups throughout the city, including international
Speaker 2: crime groups like the Yakuza and the Triads. And behind
Speaker 2: all of those groups, jostling for power in their own
Speaker 2: little neighborhoods and their own little turf battles, is Wilson Fisk,
Speaker 2: the King Pole. No one is even allowed to say
Speaker 2: this guy's fucking no name. You can't say his name,
Speaker 2: and in fact.
Speaker 3: And how much of a hold he has on New
Speaker 3: York City really even until the final episode of the show,
Speaker 3: which I think is really interesting.
Speaker 2: And in fact, we only access him over the early
Speaker 2: episodes through his chief Lieutenant James, who is like the
Speaker 2: guy who goes to talk to the gangs. The point
Speaker 2: person to keep Wilson insulated from everything. Because Wilson, on
Speaker 2: the surface is just a businessman. He's a philanthropist, he's
Speaker 2: an art lover, he's an avid cur he loves culinary guy.
Speaker 2: He loves this guy loves a bottle of wine and
Speaker 2: to be chopping it up in the kitchen. He loves that.
Speaker 2: But what's he doing behind the scenes. He's running the
Speaker 2: ultimate gentrification scam, using organized crime the various groups as
Speaker 2: his kind of like personal real estate development firm in
Speaker 2: order to force inhabitats out of buildings that he intends
Speaker 2: to buy and then flip from major major profits. His
Speaker 2: plan one to control the Hell's kitchen by bribing everybody,
Speaker 2: strong arming landlords, and killing people when necessary to use
Speaker 2: his crime syndicate, which includes multiple organized crime bosses including
Speaker 2: Madam Gow, mystical drug Crumpkin loves loves a hot cup
Speaker 2: of tea Nobu, high ranking yakuza warrior who fights like
Speaker 2: a dark soul's boss, and Leland Owsley, who is kind
Speaker 2: of like his money guy, the finance guy. It's like
Speaker 2: he works for Wilson, but he's also got a mind
Speaker 2: of his own to wipe out and he uses these
Speaker 2: people to wipe out all of his competition and basically
Speaker 2: lock down his illegal control of the city, and then
Speaker 2: step three, through his relationship with the beguiling art world
Speaker 2: impresario Vanessa, to launder his public image as just like, Hey,
Speaker 2: I'm just like a guy who loves art and fine
Speaker 2: dining and look at my wonderful look at my wonderful
Speaker 2: girlfriend Vanessa, who is on the up and up and
Speaker 2: is well respected in the art world. She would never
Speaker 2: be involved with anything criminal. Therefore, I am clean. Wilson
Speaker 2: fiske love me?
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, Wilson.
Speaker 2: Actually really loves Vanessa like it, is immediately intrigued by
Speaker 2: her when he meets her at the gallery.
Speaker 4: And this is all going great.
Speaker 2: His plan is all going great, except for the fact
Speaker 2: that there's this quote man in the mask who is
Speaker 2: running around at night beating up all of the organized
Speaker 2: crime henchmen that Goo and Nobu and Owsley and Wilson
Speaker 2: are using to force people out of their homes and
Speaker 2: beat up the common folks. It's annoying at first, but
Speaker 2: it starts to really cut into the profits over time,
Speaker 2: and Wilson is getting increasingly aggravated. Matt, meanwhile, is you know,
Speaker 2: going through all of his various personal problems, giving his
Speaker 2: Catholic guilt. With every single episode, we get various flashbacks
Speaker 2: to how he came to be Daredevil, how he got
Speaker 2: his powers. We meet his mentor, Stick, the irascible blind
Speaker 2: mentor Stick, who is not a nice guy at all,
Speaker 2: but definitely help Matt with some very important things. And
Speaker 2: as this is happening, Matt begins to really take a
Speaker 2: bite into Wilson's criminal organization, and Karen is providing important
Speaker 2: evidence to the muck racking muckraking reporter Ben Urick of
Speaker 2: Union Allied's vast criminal conspiracy and how it involves the police,
Speaker 2: city politicians, and more. Fisk is starting to get really annoyed. Now,
Speaker 2: he's just starting to get really aggravated by all of this.
Speaker 2: He's sick of this. The final domino falls when there's
Speaker 2: a couple of things that happened. First, Leland Owsley and
Speaker 2: Madam gow feeling like, you know what, Wilson is getting
Speaker 2: too His attention is too much on Vanessa Jealous.
Speaker 1: Jealous, stop paying us so much attention.
Speaker 4: I got this any of your business.
Speaker 1: Like treat this woman.
Speaker 3: There's literally multiple liciversations about how they're like maybe to distracted.
Speaker 2: It's interesting how much this mirrors like sticks advice to
Speaker 2: Matt also where it's like, listen, you can't have anybody
Speaker 2: in your life, you can't have any romantic entanglements.
Speaker 1: Like it's like that speech from Heat.
Speaker 2: You gotta be You got to be disconnected from everything
Speaker 2: in order to focus on what you need to do.
Speaker 2: And that's how Gal and leland Owsley feel the I
Speaker 2: feel like listen, Wilson's got like lovey dovey eyes and
Speaker 2: we can't get him to focus on business. So they
Speaker 2: take the extremely unwise path by trying to basically assassinate Vanessa,
Speaker 2: using poison to make it look like someone's trying to
Speaker 2: kill Fisk. Vanessa goes into the hospital, Fisk is enraged,
Speaker 2: he kills land Owsley. This draws the attention of the FEDS,
Speaker 2: and now the heat is really on for Fisk. The
Speaker 2: Feds move in. Fisk is like looking for an escape plan.
Speaker 2: He has a shotgun marriage to Vanessa, Yeah, going on.
Speaker 4: So many good things, and then he's like, I need
Speaker 4: to escape. But in the best.
Speaker 3: Wilson Fisk like Vincent Dinofrio performance of your Lifetime, I
Speaker 3: love you and I say that as someone who knows
Speaker 3: hubs criminal intent. That's one of the best like procedural
Speaker 3: shows out. But you've done your time in many good shows.
Speaker 3: But you are Wilson Fisk, like the man you are
Speaker 3: in this l He's like, I'm Wilson.
Speaker 4: Fisk, and I've got to escape this police fan.
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna give like a three minute monologue where
Speaker 3: I'm just telling these guys a story about nothing to
Speaker 3: in my dulcet tones, and they're all listening to me.
Speaker 4: But it's all a.
Speaker 3: Ploy because like every corrupt cop in the whole city
Speaker 3: is coming to break him out. And that's when you
Speaker 3: really realize that, like Wilson Fisk has so many more
Speaker 3: people under his thumb and in his employ than we
Speaker 3: even know. He walks out after a firefight, just straight
Speaker 3: into the street like it's not even an issue. And
Speaker 3: if there wasn't a certain man fueled by Catholic guilt
Speaker 3: and horniness, Matt Murdoch, he would have probably been able
Speaker 3: to escape. But of course they have to have that
Speaker 3: final showdown and it is like so good.
Speaker 2: Yes, So the Union allied scheme is collapsed, the Feds
Speaker 2: are on his tail, and Matt Burdock is really mad
Speaker 2: because Kingpin killed ben Urine for revealing all this stuff,
Speaker 2: and so they have a big, big how do you
Speaker 2: do fight in the back alley as Wilson Fisk is
Speaker 2: trying to escape his pehouse and is a brutal, brutal
Speaker 2: fight with Matt finally like applying the couda grass by
Speaker 2: like doing a leaping like action Wilson.
Speaker 4: And it's all red.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got his He's fully Daredevil now in his
Speaker 2: Daredevil suit, and so the Kingpin is down. He gets
Speaker 2: put under arrest by a cop that Daredevil had helped
Speaker 2: out previously. He was about to arrest. Daredevil is like, hey,
Speaker 2: remember when I helped you out? Why don't you just
Speaker 2: forget like I was ever here? Just arrest Wilson Fisk
Speaker 2: and the cop is like fine.
Speaker 3: I'm like you're not gonna live very long, my friend, like,
Speaker 3: don't risk you a loud guess guy like come on.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Vanessa is at the helipad being like, where is
Speaker 2: my love? Where is Wilson? He never shows up, so
Speaker 2: she leaves. Later on, setting up season two, Wilson Fisk
Speaker 2: is in jail. Matt, Foggy and Karen have their new
Speaker 2: offices and they are calling their firm, Nelson and Murdoch.
Speaker 2: That is the speed recap of season one, and let's
Speaker 2: just talk about what we thought. First of all, we
Speaker 2: got to talk because we this is a show that
Speaker 2: is I think it's trademark is its fight scenes. We
Speaker 2: talked about it, and to me, I think what makes
Speaker 2: this so unlike anything else in Marvel even now, is
Speaker 2: the fact that because Matt he has the heightened senses,
Speaker 2: but he's just a guy, a very very well trained guy,
Speaker 2: a peak athlete. You know, if I'm thinking back to
Speaker 2: my Marvel Handbook to the Marvel Universe, and you know
Speaker 2: in the in the Daredevil section, it would say under
Speaker 2: powers and skills like peak endurance and strength of a human.
Speaker 1: Athlete.
Speaker 2: So he's unlike other figures in the MCU who would
Speaker 2: punch a guy and the guy would go flying through
Speaker 2: a window and that would be it. Matt really has
Speaker 2: to put the work in to fight. He does, and
Speaker 2: you feel it. It's visceral when he.
Speaker 3: I do think that the one thing that surprises me
Speaker 3: the most about how long it took them to bring
Speaker 3: Dad Evil to the MCU is that Charlie Cox is
Speaker 3: just one of those generationally great casting. In fact, all
Speaker 3: the casting in this show is fantastic, but when you
Speaker 3: see him, especially early on, it's very rare in the
Speaker 3: MCU and in these big superhero universes that we get
Speaker 3: to see a character in an early version of their
Speaker 3: suit or without a suit.
Speaker 4: When you see him with.
Speaker 3: That really cool man in the mask, like kind of
Speaker 3: black bandana around his eyes, very assic Ninja turtles look,
Speaker 3: and just like his black tight thermals and his boots,
Speaker 3: you're like, wow, this is so different to the kind
Speaker 3: of high military versions of the heroes that we've gotten,
Speaker 3: And it feels realistic that in a world where the
Speaker 3: Avengers are publicly heroes and exist, other people who don't
Speaker 3: have that tech, who don't have this backing of Tony Stark,
Speaker 3: would take this into their own hands.
Speaker 4: And this show.
Speaker 3: Feels like it really deals with what the reality inverted
Speaker 3: commas of that would be. And I think the fights
Speaker 3: are such a great part of that because so much
Speaker 3: of what we saw in the MCU, Like we joke
Speaker 3: about this all the time, the collateral damage is high,
Speaker 3: like the Avengers are killing so many people, but you
Speaker 3: never see what that collateral damage really is.
Speaker 4: Even in the.
Speaker 3: Age of Vulture where they deal I'm in Civil War
Speaker 3: where they deal with it with the Legos explosion and
Speaker 3: what happened there and everything.
Speaker 4: It it does, we don't see the aftermath, whereas here.
Speaker 3: You see the violence, you see the punches, you see
Speaker 3: the broken skin on Matt's hands after he's beaten, the
Speaker 3: shout of a henchman, and I think that it still
Speaker 3: is some of the best action we've had in any
Speaker 3: superhero TV show or movie. Yes, and also the impact
Speaker 3: is there, you feel the punches that really stood out
Speaker 3: to me. I also think it's very interesting how they
Speaker 3: utilize comic book characters in this show, because we get
Speaker 3: very early on in the first three episodes, we get
Speaker 3: Rosario Dawson's character, who is called Claire Temple, and she's
Speaker 3: essentially like her reimagining of the Night Nurse character.
Speaker 2: She's a very important part of the street level logistics
Speaker 2: being a superhero the Luke Cage.
Speaker 4: She's a Luke Cage character hero for Higher Issue too.
Speaker 3: She was created by Archie Goodwin and George Tusker, and
Speaker 3: she is a kind of composite of Claire Temple in
Speaker 3: the comics, where she's a doctor and then the Linda
Speaker 3: Carter hilarious nod there of course to the legend night
Speaker 3: nurse character. And I thought that was a really interesting
Speaker 3: way of dealing with the reality of how does Matt
Speaker 3: Murdock get up after a night of getting the crap
Speaker 3: kicked out of him and go to work as a lawyer?
Speaker 3: And I love that rather than just being like a
Speaker 3: suspension of this belief, they were like, no, he'd need
Speaker 3: a nurse, he'd need someone who could fix them. And
Speaker 3: also talking of big connections to the defenders, I mean,
Speaker 3: Claire is a recurring character in these shows.
Speaker 4: She is someone who needs.
Speaker 3: The you know she's coming back, baby, You're gonna see her,
Speaker 3: And I thought that was an interest. It's interesting how
Speaker 3: early she comes in and how they kind of build
Speaker 3: in this relationship with Matt as a way to make
Speaker 3: you believe that he can go out and do this
Speaker 3: every night and still be walking.
Speaker 2: Here are the several things that stood out to me
Speaker 2: on rewatch one. The action is good was as good
Speaker 2: as I remember. It's still it holds up and in
Speaker 2: fact holds I would say this season together, yeah, because two,
Speaker 2: I think this becomes much more evident in seasons two
Speaker 2: and three. But it's here as well this season, and
Speaker 2: the episodes are too there's too much fat. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: they're a little too long. There's a lot of stuff
Speaker 2: in here that either feels repetitive at times or just
Speaker 2: could be sharper and tighter, including the Union Allied investigation.
Speaker 2: I think they could have gone. I think they could
Speaker 2: have made that much more interesting. It feels at times like,
Speaker 2: oh God.
Speaker 4: Here we go. I was gonna say, did that hook you?
Speaker 3: Because I do think that for a show like they
Speaker 3: might have gone a bit to standard procedural drama like
Speaker 3: money laundering kind of they didn't necessarily hook you in.
Speaker 3: But what does hook you in is the characters and
Speaker 3: the conversation and and I think.
Speaker 2: There were problems with it. Here are the here are
Speaker 2: the structural problems on a standard like kind of procedural
Speaker 2: that you would expect to see a character like Ben
Speaker 2: Urick in. It's the discovery of the facts that are
Speaker 2: that are the hook here. It's like, you know, Union
Speaker 2: Allied is bad because you're with Matt Murdoch and he's
Speaker 2: doing illegal shit at night and he's making it out.
Speaker 2: He's like uncovering all these criminal figures people who are
Speaker 2: involved on the on the kind of like bleeding edge
Speaker 2: of the scam, and so I think they needed to
Speaker 2: really juice up Ben's investigation and make it feel more dangerous,
Speaker 2: like he's and or that he's really uncovering like like
Speaker 2: incredible stuff that is shocking in some way, because it
Speaker 2: just kind of felt like he and Karen are having
Speaker 2: these conversations. Karen doesn't really want to talk to him,
Speaker 2: but she also is and she's scared, but she's helping,
Speaker 2: and then you're but you also feels like for a
Speaker 2: lot of those I'm just finding out stuff that I
Speaker 2: already knew, and I wish they had just made those
Speaker 2: a little tighter. There's and there's other things, a lot
Speaker 2: of like the organized crime, you know, Madam Gow and
Speaker 2: Nobu and the kind of like faceless Asian yakas a
Speaker 2: triad gangs. It feels very like paint by numbers, And
Speaker 2: so there's a lot of stuff here that felt like
Speaker 2: we could have moved quicker through this.
Speaker 3: Ben is also a good example of how this show
Speaker 3: does not treat people of color well, because Ben Urick
Speaker 3: is an iconic character in Dead Evil Law, and by
Speaker 3: the end of the show he's dead, you know, there
Speaker 3: was no he kind of continued to be an icotic character.
Speaker 3: But they need to kill someone to kind of make
Speaker 3: the vengeance element, so they kill Elena, they kill Ben Uric,
Speaker 3: And I remember that was really controversial when that happened
Speaker 3: at the time, especially because I feel like, like you said,
Speaker 3: they don't necessarily make the most of him or kind
Speaker 3: of showcase his skill his impact.
Speaker 2: I don't, yeah, I didn't love. This is a spoiler
Speaker 2: for our book club Born Again book Club episode, but
Speaker 2: there's a passage. There's a scene in Born Again in
Speaker 2: which Urick is flying he's getting really close to the truth,
Speaker 2: and the Kingpin sends an assassin to his house. But
Speaker 2: she's seems like she's a home carriage. She's like a nurse,
Speaker 2: just like a very big nurse, and it is it
Speaker 2: was like a it's a scary scene, like it's really
Speaker 2: really terrifying, and Ben escapes by the skin of his teeth,
Speaker 2: And I thought we could have used more threat to
Speaker 2: bend through. It's like, really only at the end when
Speaker 2: the Kingkin shows up and kills him that you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: this was dangerous. But if Ben had been under increasing
Speaker 2: threat throughout.
Speaker 3: It would have felt less just like kind of shortcut
Speaker 3: to bengeance and I'm glad you bought Born Again Again actually,
Speaker 3: because I do think I do think that one of
Speaker 3: the most interesting things going into a show named Dad
Speaker 3: ever Born Again is how much this season does seem
Speaker 3: to pull from Born Again. There's a lot of stuff
Speaker 3: like kind of Karen who you can't tell whether you
Speaker 3: can trust that?
Speaker 4: Is she a criminal? Is she not?
Speaker 3: That feels very Born Again, the ben Yurik stuff very
Speaker 3: born Again.
Speaker 2: Yes, So it'll be interesting to see what Born Again
Speaker 2: actually is because there's so much of it that at
Speaker 2: least the comics story in this season. And then finally,
Speaker 2: the final thing that really stood out to me is like, actually,
Speaker 2: how much Defender's connective to you? There is a lot
Speaker 2: like there's it like a lot, there's there's you know,
Speaker 2: when when we get to meet Stick, Matt's mentor both
Speaker 2: in his flashbacks in the early kind of training days,
Speaker 2: Matt as a young blind kid who's not in control
Speaker 2: of his senses, uh to Stick in the present day
Speaker 2: and the kind of mysterious circumstances of his rival, why
Speaker 2: is he in New York And you come to realize
Speaker 2: he's here to assassinate a child crazy?
Speaker 1: Who is who is?
Speaker 2: Who is a Black Sky one of these I guess
Speaker 2: black Sky figures who the Hand and the yakas of
Speaker 2: feel like could be an important leader for them in
Speaker 2: the future. And he's there to kill this person, which
Speaker 2: is crazy, absolutely, and that becomes a very important kind
Speaker 2: of plot point to the Defender's storyline all throughout that
Speaker 2: season and what the Hand is up to. So those
Speaker 2: are the things. And oh and one more thing. I
Speaker 2: think there's too many flashbacks.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 2: It's really you know, like Wilson fisk, I don't he's
Speaker 2: a bad guy. I don't need to know about his
Speaker 2: childhood as a traumatized young kid.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well what stood out for you?
Speaker 5: You know what?
Speaker 3: I think that for me, I agree with you action.
Speaker 3: I think it's too long. We've talked about that as well,
Speaker 3: like it's a thirteen hour long show, and at the
Speaker 3: time there was lots of this talk about, oh, it's
Speaker 3: a thirteen hour movie. It is not, sir, I do so.
Speaker 3: I love Wilson Fisk, I agree there's too many flashbacks.
Speaker 3: I do feel like ironically the better or for worse,
Speaker 3: the stick stuff and the way that's presented in the
Speaker 3: stick episode is like, it feels very influential on how
Speaker 3: shows like to do a flashback a bottle episode. Now,
Speaker 3: I like pretty much anything they do with Wilson Fisk
Speaker 3: because I think this is one of the better versions
Speaker 3: of making a villain feel emotionally kind of resonant as
Speaker 3: you get to learn more about him. And also I
Speaker 3: love the relationship with him and Vanessa so much. I
Speaker 3: think it's just completely deranged and so much fun to watch,
Speaker 3: and you do even though like on an ethical and
Speaker 3: moral level in real life, you wouldn't be supporting it.
Speaker 3: When he's like gripping her hands as the Feds drag
Speaker 3: him away in episode thirteen and he's giving her the
Speaker 3: ring and he's like, I love you.
Speaker 4: Vanessa, Let's get married, Like I will marry you. This
Speaker 4: is crazy.
Speaker 3: I think that Vincent Donofrio makes or breaks the show
Speaker 3: as much as I do. I think the main trick
Speaker 3: you buy him, Karen Page, you need to buy him
Speaker 3: as Yeah, the Karen Page, Charlie Cox, Foggy Nelson at
Speaker 3: Murdoch all fantastic cast thing. They look like they're in
Speaker 3: the comics. Their chemistry together is so good, So that's great.
Speaker 3: But really for me, this is the Vincent Dinofrio show.
Speaker 3: I love the kind of the way he shoots the
Speaker 3: words out of his mouth, like bull It's Vanessa Vanessa,
Speaker 3: Like I will listen to him talk in that voice
Speaker 3: all day.
Speaker 4: Other things that really stood out to me.
Speaker 3: I think that something I think is very funny and
Speaker 3: cool here that kind of happened earlier than a lot
Speaker 3: of other movies and TV shows doing this is the
Speaker 3: show is definitely in conversation with readers at least a
Speaker 3: little bit, because I love that when Foggy finds out
Speaker 3: about Matt's secret life, he is really mad at him.
Speaker 4: Because he's like, are you even blind? He's like, have
Speaker 4: you just He's.
Speaker 3: Like, I'm helping you around every day, but you can
Speaker 3: sense everything. And he's like I'm nodding and you know
Speaker 3: I'm nodding right, And Matt's like yeah. And I think
Speaker 3: that's really funny because one, they do it in a
Speaker 3: way that feels very real and like you would be
Speaker 3: really pissed off and they sell it.
Speaker 1: But also yeah, wait, wait, so like you're you don't
Speaker 1: really know where you're.
Speaker 4: Not, like come on bo.
Speaker 3: Yeah, It's like a big conversation in the disability community
Speaker 3: about Matt Murdock in the comic book community.
Speaker 4: So I think I thought that was really great.
Speaker 3: I do think it's too long, Like, I know, people
Speaker 3: love this show, but I thirteen hours, I don't think.
Speaker 3: I think they could have done double what they did
Speaker 3: in the same thirteen hours, or they could have cut
Speaker 3: it down to nine hours and it would have been
Speaker 3: like the snappiest, most impactful show ever. But at the time,
Speaker 3: you know, this is very much in those early kind
Speaker 3: of at what we call prest these TV nowadays days.
Speaker 3: The opening for this, the credit sequence, is one of
Speaker 3: the most influential credit sequences of all times. Shows are
Speaker 3: still trying to make a credit sequence like that, with
Speaker 3: the kind of blood and the wax going over the
Speaker 3: faces of the characters and Lady Justice. Yeah, I thought
Speaker 3: it was great. I do think I agree with pretty
Speaker 3: much everything you said. But the main thing is just
Speaker 3: like the action, and also if you were there, if
Speaker 3: you're old like us, if you're watching this nine years ago,
Speaker 3: I still do remember the excitement of like a real
Speaker 3: street level team, you know, And I think the biggest
Speaker 3: thing that even though the show was long, I do
Speaker 3: think the finale sticks the landing it manages to wrap
Speaker 3: up the loose end, set up what you want from
Speaker 3: a season two. I think that you get some really
Speaker 3: interesting stuff because Matt has chosen not to reveal who
Speaker 3: he is to Karen, which, if you've ever read a
Speaker 3: Spider Man story, is a terrible idea will always come
Speaker 3: back to bite you in the bar and is not
Speaker 3: healthy or good. But you still get the beginnings of
Speaker 3: some chemistry between them. This is before Dared Evil went
Speaker 3: fully into Matt being.
Speaker 4: Like a Lathario.
Speaker 3: This is kind of still a little bit of your
Speaker 3: innocent Matt. I think Stephen at de Night had spoken
Speaker 3: quite extensibly at the time about the violence being the
Speaker 3: adult part, and they wanted to kind of lure people
Speaker 3: in with that and get them comfortable with it before
Speaker 3: any sex. And there wasn't really a sexual, big sexual
Speaker 3: element to Dead Devil, but the rest of the Defenders
Speaker 3: Jessica Jones later seasons of Dead Devil definitely changed that.
Speaker 3: I mean, Matt Murdoch has always been a character that
Speaker 3: people have crushes on, but I think Charlie Cox Matt
Speaker 3: Murdoch expanded that exponentially. Yeah, I think generally this is
Speaker 3: like I'm glad that at the time we knew we
Speaker 3: had it so good, because we haven't.
Speaker 4: Really had it so good for a long time.
Speaker 3: And at the time we knew we knew, we were like,
Speaker 3: we're eating and this is delicious, and it's gonna nourish
Speaker 3: us and serve us well.
Speaker 4: And it's an interesting.
Speaker 3: Part of what the MCU used to be when there
Speaker 3: was a little bit more separation between church and state,
Speaker 3: let's say, like TV and movies.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I'm very interested in it.
Speaker 3: But what I want to know is, like, for you
Speaker 3: from watching it, what do you feel like your main
Speaker 3: takeaways where like, Wow, the impact of this show, Like
Speaker 3: how have you seen it change things over the years.
Speaker 2: I think the impact of the show is there is
Speaker 2: the level is the action and the level of violence.
Speaker 2: I think it's set a standard that you saw start
Speaker 2: to affect the MCU in like you know, Captain America,
Speaker 2: Winter Soldier, and in the kind of ex style of
Speaker 2: action and in some of Disney Plus's Marvel television offerings,
Speaker 2: and just the way the fights are. I think that
Speaker 2: the main you know, think about the fans of this
Speaker 2: show from the Netflix era, their initial reaction to the
Speaker 2: announcement that Daredevil would coming to the MCU and that
Speaker 2: Born Again would be his first kind of like TV
Speaker 2: title on Disney Plus was will it be as hard hitting?
Speaker 2: That's really the thing, and that's to me, more than anything,
Speaker 2: the influence that Daredevil has, And I think that when
Speaker 2: we talked about it before, I think street level is
Speaker 2: a big hole in Marvel stuff, like we've immediately transcended
Speaker 2: in the films to cosmic threats, multiversal threats, you know,
Speaker 2: fighting in and outside of the timeline, different versions.
Speaker 4: Of branches of the tree of life. And it's.
Speaker 2: Of that that we're ignoring a really rich tradition of
Speaker 2: like street level heroes, and I think Daredevil points the way.
Speaker 2: So it mays to be seen what the influence is,
Speaker 2: but I think one of the things that we can
Speaker 2: say is its influence is in the fact that they
Speaker 2: got it right with the casting. It was announced, for instance,
Speaker 2: that Foggy and Karen would both be in Born Again.
Speaker 2: This is essentially a retcon of stuff that happened at
Speaker 2: the end of seasons two and three of Daredevil, So
Speaker 2: those characters are going to be around, and that to
Speaker 2: me is like a tacit emission that you know what,
Speaker 2: one it's really hard to have a Daredavil story without
Speaker 2: Karen and Froggy.
Speaker 4: And two.
Speaker 1: Netflix did it right.
Speaker 2: Whatever the thing was too long, too many floppy plotlines
Speaker 2: are fine, but.
Speaker 1: They got it right.
Speaker 2: The core of it really really worked, and so we
Speaker 2: have to bring them back, including bringing back I think Vanessa.
Speaker 2: It was announced on it was reported, and I think
Speaker 2: it was Business Insider had that the actor who plays
Speaker 2: Vanessa said that in the canon, the fictional canon that's
Speaker 2: you know, kind of like ongoing right now, is that
Speaker 2: Vanessa took over the rackets when Wilson went. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: love that after season three, which I love that because.
Speaker 4: She's such a brilliant actor. I think you're right. I
Speaker 4: think those are the main things.
Speaker 3: I will also say, so, this show came out before
Speaker 3: I moved here, and then when I moved here, I
Speaker 3: did a lot of coverage in like twenty sixteen, like
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen onwards to for the CW.
Speaker 4: Arrow Verse shows.
Speaker 3: And obviously we don't necessarily think about those shows as
Speaker 3: having like hard hitting action because they were on broadcast TV.
Speaker 4: They don't have the brutality.
Speaker 3: But what I will say is, whenever I went to
Speaker 3: those sets, they had a full blown stunt team really
Speaker 3: putting together intricate, ongoing action shots important big superhero fights,
Speaker 3: and I definitely felt like without dead Level, that wouldn't necessarily.
Speaker 4: Have become such a hallmark of what you need, Like
Speaker 4: you need.
Speaker 3: To have somebody who's gonna make you go whoa, Like
Speaker 3: you can't just get away with the flash flash running
Speaker 3: fast around someone. You have to have a street level
Speaker 3: hero like Guardian or something that's gonna be there beating
Speaker 3: the stuffing out of people, and you have to have
Speaker 3: good stump work, and you have to have interesting fight scenes.
Speaker 3: So I think you're right. I think that's the biggest
Speaker 3: ongoing impact. I also think that this is a series
Speaker 3: that established superhero storytelling as something that people who maybe
Speaker 3: didn't usually watch superhero stuff, who didn't watch Marvel, they
Speaker 3: wanted to watch it.
Speaker 4: They saw it on Netflix, they wanted to be get.
Speaker 2: Like fans of NCIS or like or like Navy Seals
Speaker 2: or any of those kind of like s for you,
Speaker 2: like CBS action y kind of procedurals, they might be
Speaker 2: attracted to a show like this. You're exactly right. Any
Speaker 2: final thoughts on Daredevil Season one as we head into
Speaker 2: our coverage of season two and three looking forward to
Speaker 2: Daredevil boarding.
Speaker 3: In final thoughts, I hope that this encourages people to
Speaker 3: seek out more Dad level comics.
Speaker 4: There's so many brilliant Dead level comics.
Speaker 3: I'm a Annie Nasenti Jr.
Speaker 4: J June JRJ Drummer. That's a point.
Speaker 3: I'm a superstar of that run, the Typhoid Mary run.
Speaker 3: You can collect that.
Speaker 2: There's never I'll go further. There's never been a bad
Speaker 2: Dart level true. I think I think fantastic. I think
Speaker 2: it punches above its weight. It is consistently one of
Speaker 2: the best things going in Marvel always. Maybe it's because
Speaker 2: it's so insulated from like the ongoing events in the
Speaker 2: wider Marvel six one six Cannon, but there are more
Speaker 2: great runs in Daredevil than maybe any other comment.
Speaker 4: I think that's pretty fair.
Speaker 3: I would say like it's up there with X Men,
Speaker 3: and honestly X Men is once you get past clamor
Speaker 3: becomes pretty spoty depending on what you like.
Speaker 2: But the nineties get weird, you know.
Speaker 3: I love Jila, also, I love Barrrison, but definitely I
Speaker 3: think Dad Devil has a lot more access storylines.
Speaker 4: Maybe we'll have to get Jewels on here.
Speaker 3: Actually because he did a great thing where he read
Speaker 3: every Dead Level comic to rank them all for Notice,
Speaker 3: which was really good.
Speaker 4: I also would say if you want.
Speaker 3: To see more action like Dead Level, there is not
Speaker 3: really more action like Dead Level in a whole series.
Speaker 3: But the pilot episode of Echo is the closest we
Speaker 3: have come back to it. It has Dead Level in it.
Speaker 3: There's a fantastic opening fight scene.
Speaker 4: Check that out. Also, our discord.
Speaker 3: Is going absolutely crazy, big big fans of your friendly
Speaker 3: neighborhood spider Man, which I think is the closest we've
Speaker 3: gotten in the MCU of Yeah, the kind of street
Speaker 3: level down and like who are your friends? How do
Speaker 3: they back you up? And what does it mean to
Speaker 3: be a hero in your community? Very different tones, and
Speaker 3: Dead Level makes an appearance, very different tone but super fun.
Speaker 4: And Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Want the three things I want to continue from this
Speaker 3: show over our cast, chemistry, action.
Speaker 4: And the way that this show just brings in so.
Speaker 3: Many random, outrageous comment but characters that you never thought
Speaker 3: you were going to see. I love that stuff. Those
Speaker 3: are my three biggest things. What do you want to
Speaker 3: make sure that comes over for Dad? Evil Born again?
Speaker 2: I think my final takeaways are great season, but that
Speaker 2: there's it could even be better, and that Born Again
Speaker 2: I think that there's real hope that it could actually
Speaker 2: be something truly great because the procedural elements are kind
Speaker 2: of the weak pointed day are like you never really
Speaker 2: get the Matt.
Speaker 1: Murdoch in the courtroom like iconic moment.
Speaker 2: Which would be great, right if you could tie together
Speaker 2: some of these strands that way. And so I think
Speaker 2: that by doubling down and really adding value in the
Speaker 2: procedural elements, the investigation elements, the courtroom stuff, give Foggy
Speaker 2: and Karen some real stuff to dig into.
Speaker 4: I would love that.
Speaker 2: If though, if that element of the show is elevated
Speaker 2: to the level or anywhere near of the action elements,
Speaker 2: the Dared Devil elements, I think you've got a show
Speaker 2: that's not just like really good, but potentially great. And
Speaker 2: so that's the thing that I come away with from
Speaker 2: this season is really good season of television, and it
Speaker 2: could have been like great and maybe Born Again.
Speaker 4: Maybe it will be, Maybe it will be. I can't wait.
Speaker 4: I'm so excited for this show. I'm for book club.
Speaker 3: I'm so stoked to see how many people are reading
Speaker 3: along and I think it's going to be a really
Speaker 3: interesting combo, especially leading into the show, which we're kind
Speaker 3: of now wondering how much is that just a title?
Speaker 4: Is it really gonna pull elements? And from that it's
Speaker 4: going to be interesting to see.
Speaker 2: Well. In the next few episodes of X ray Vision,
Speaker 2: we'll be recapping, of course, Daredevil seasons two and three
Speaker 2: originally on Netflix you can find them now on Disney Plus,
Speaker 2: and beginning our coverage of Born Again. That's it for
Speaker 2: this episode, Thanks for singing bye. X ray Vision is
Speaker 2: hosted by Jason Spcion and Rosie Knight and is a
Speaker 2: production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kurtman.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 3: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan, and Bay wag.
Speaker 2: Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
Speaker 2: songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and
Speaker 3: Heidi our discord moderator.