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Speaker 1: This is Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous in Depth.

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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, welcome to the Almost Famous podcast. Today is

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Speaker 1: the day that we've all been waiting for for weeks.

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Speaker 1: Gabby el Nikki is with us, and we could not

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Speaker 1: be more thrilled to have this badass woman on the show.

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Speaker 1: Jared was on a plane today and he found a

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Speaker 1: Bachelor fan. He said, Ashley's interviewing Gabby today and she goes,

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Speaker 1: you tell that girl that she is a badass bitch.

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Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I'll repeat that because that is

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Speaker 1: how I feel about you. Gabby. Thank you for coming

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Speaker 1: on for giving us your time. Oh my goodness, I

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Speaker 1: love that. That's so funny, and thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for having me. I'm excited to be hers. For me.

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Speaker 1: You were my favorite and I don't know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know everybody in the cast, so like, no offense to

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Speaker 1: everybody else, but you were my favorite watching on TV

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Speaker 1: this season because one, you were like the relatable girl,

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Speaker 1: right because you were always so open about the situations

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Speaker 1: that you were nervous in, whether it was his final

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Speaker 1: pick or the fact that you're just a little awkward

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Speaker 1: around guys that you like at the beginning of a relationship. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I am, and I am not afraid to

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Speaker 1: show that. I mean, it's just who I am. But

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Speaker 1: that's what was so great. You're not scared to say it.

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Speaker 1: You're like, I'm not the cool girl. I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to try to be the cool girl. You're like you

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Speaker 1: really own and embrace your insecurities, your uncertainties and your nerves.

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Speaker 1: And I love that about you. Thank you. I appreciate

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Speaker 1: that so because you are one of the most rootable characters,

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Speaker 1: Like everybody was just feeling so much at the end

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Speaker 1: of the show because you were the main character the

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Speaker 1: last few weeks, and I hate that you have to

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Speaker 1: relive this over and over again. But we have to

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Speaker 1: talk about fantasy suits a week. Did you know that

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Speaker 1: you were your placement in that week? Did you know

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Speaker 1: that your date was second? I did because I did

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Speaker 1: the math, because you did the math, not because you

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Speaker 1: girls knew. How did you do the math? Well, I

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Speaker 1: knew when I arrived there. Usually you have like a

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Speaker 1: day to rest from travel day, and then you know

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Speaker 1: that the next day is going to be you know

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Speaker 1: that day they get home from the morning, they rest,

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Speaker 1: then they do the next day. So I had done

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Speaker 1: the math in my head of like, Okay, well you've

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Speaker 1: been in Thailand for three days now and you are

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Speaker 1: not on a date girl, so I can't do the

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Speaker 1: math there. Okay. So during the portion of your one

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Speaker 1: on one with Zach during that week, he sits you

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Speaker 1: down and says, you know, hey, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: have sex with anyone this week, and you said I

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Speaker 1: didn't expect to get engaged to someone that I've never

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Speaker 1: had sex with, which is totally normal and understandable. And

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Speaker 1: I'm curious to know whether this conversation continued between the

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Speaker 1: two of you in the fantasy suite, because it did

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Speaker 1: seem like such an executive, one side decision from him

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Speaker 1: on TV. Yeah, I think you know that conversation the

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Speaker 1: part that was shown, and obviously you know there is

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Speaker 1: a narrative, and there is you know, there has to

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Speaker 1: be context to what is shown and what happens. But

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Speaker 1: there was so much more to our conversation. And I'm

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Speaker 1: a big advocate of therapy and mental health and mental wellness,

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Speaker 1: and so much of Zack and I's conversation actually revolved

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Speaker 1: around like my journey of healing, my like my therapy journey.

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Speaker 1: There was just so much more that that we both

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Speaker 1: related on in like such an intimate level of emotional intimacy,

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Speaker 1: and we felt very connected, or at least I still

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Speaker 1: felt that way, Like even though it wasn't me, I

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Speaker 1: do think that we felt very connected at that time.

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Speaker 1: And you know, it's okay that that wasn't shown, but

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Speaker 1: I do think there was so much more to that

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Speaker 1: conversation that I think it's unfortunate that people maybe didn't

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Speaker 1: get to see how connected we were at that time.

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Speaker 1: And so, you know, if I'm thinking something, if I'm

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Speaker 1: feeling something, I say it. And everyone saw that throughout

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Speaker 1: the season, and you know, I did say that to

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Speaker 1: Zach of like, no, I didn't think this, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know if he. I didn't expect it, and I

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Speaker 1: don't think that he expected it either, To be completely

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Speaker 1: honest with you, I think he was trying to do

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Speaker 1: the right thing to the best that he could, and

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Speaker 1: I think he was trying to follow, you know, what

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Speaker 1: felt right and what he thought was going to make

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Speaker 1: the most sense to not hurt anyone. And unfortunately, you know,

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Speaker 1: like relationships are messy, and relationships don't always like work

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Speaker 1: the way that you think they're going to and you

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Speaker 1: can't set a plan because nothing goes to plan. So

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Speaker 1: you know that that conversation, it was such a small

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Speaker 1: portion of that and um, you know, it's just it's

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Speaker 1: kind of unfortunate. So are you saying that, like when

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Speaker 1: the cameras are rolling before you went into the fantasy

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Speaker 1: this week, you guys did have a longer conversation about

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Speaker 1: all that where you maybe solid but more eye I no,

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Speaker 1: I don't. It wasn't even a longer conversation about it

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Speaker 1: because it was such a such a small conversation there,

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Speaker 1: like where it was just like, this is this is

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Speaker 1: my thoughts on the week. This is the statement that

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Speaker 1: I'm making. I responded to that, and you know that

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Speaker 1: was that you were like onto bigger things. Yes, like

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Speaker 1: we're more important, you know what we're talking about, which

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Speaker 1: that is an important conversation, but you know, it was

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Speaker 1: just a small portion of our conversation. Gotcha all right?

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Speaker 1: So something that was just mind blowing to me or

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Speaker 1: a puzzling It's all very mysterious, and I think after

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Speaker 1: the day of reunion we were all like, wait, what

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Speaker 1: does she mean by that? What does she mean about that?

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Speaker 1: When you were on the after the Final Rows stage,

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Speaker 1: you said, I didn't know that you told everyone about

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Speaker 1: what happened in the Fantasy Suite until I was watching

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Speaker 1: it on TV. And I want to know what exactly

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Speaker 1: you meant by that, because we do know that you

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Speaker 1: told Katie while standing up there at the Final three

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Speaker 1: Rows ceremony that you felt like you were wearing a

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Speaker 1: scarlet letter, so you had to have known that she knew. Well,

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Speaker 1: you gotta explain the whole situation and what we're missing. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think for me, and you know, in that moment,

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Speaker 1: I felt very isolated and I felt like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: everyone's looking at me. Everyone knows, you know, But I

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Speaker 1: don't know what happened, you know, But I didn't get

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Speaker 1: the details of other what happened after my Fantasy Suite ate.

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Speaker 1: What happened that was never a topic of conversation, and like,

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't care to know. But um, for me,

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Speaker 1: what I meant by that was I did not know.

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Speaker 1: When he came into my room and he spoke to me,

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Speaker 1: he said, I don't want you to feel like you're

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Speaker 1: keeping a keeping a secret, and I don't want to

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Speaker 1: start a relationship off with secrets, and you know. It

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Speaker 1: was not like, Hey, I'm going to go tell everyone

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Speaker 1: that me and you were physically intimate and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to use your name and every single one of my interviews.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell Jesse, I'm gonna tell all of my interviews,

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Speaker 1: which I'm telling the world, I'm going to paint the

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Speaker 1: picture of it was me and you, and you were

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Speaker 1: the ones that were physically intimate I had. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know the level of like like privacy that was going

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Speaker 1: to be violated until watching it back. Of like, like,

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Speaker 1: did I know that it was probably gonna be aired

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Speaker 1: out that it was me? Yes, But did I think

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Speaker 1: that Zach was going to go and tell everyone and

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Speaker 1: use my name and leave nothing for interpretation. No. I

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Speaker 1: did not think he was going to do that. And

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Speaker 1: watching it back was the first time that I like

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Speaker 1: actually like found out that he had done that, which

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Speaker 1: to me was very violating and it hurt more than

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Speaker 1: like honestly even going through it, because I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, like I'm seeing this and it's like

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Speaker 1: so like I don't know, I just felt so overwhelmed

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Speaker 1: by like the lack of privacy that I had. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: when I was watching that, I was thinking it was

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Speaker 1: awkward for me having to have my virginity all over

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Speaker 1: the place when the show was airing. It was nothing

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Speaker 1: that I'd ever like talk to my dad about, do

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? It was actually odder and

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Speaker 1: more awkward for me to have my dad watch that stuff,

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Speaker 1: like one of the most close people to me in

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Speaker 1: my life, then have the whole country watch it. So

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Speaker 1: how did you deal with your family going through that

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Speaker 1: with you and them having to It's like, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: know when you hear like I heard suck with her

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Speaker 1: in the Fantasy Suite, you like have you like come

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Speaker 1: up with like a visual in your head, And that's

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Speaker 1: what I feel like you feel so violated for because

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Speaker 1: there's there's a difference between what happens in the Fantasy

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Speaker 1: Suite being alluded to assumed and versus like it actually

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Speaker 1: being blatantly said. So, just like, how did that feel

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Speaker 1: with those closest to you on like a smaller scale,

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Speaker 1: because I feel like that's like the way it gets

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Speaker 1: even weirder. Yeah, I mean, it definitely was tough. I

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Speaker 1: actually like made my sister like break the news to

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Speaker 1: my mom before I did, because it was something I

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Speaker 1: was like fearing, like you know, how how was all

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Speaker 1: going to play out? How like because I knew it

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Speaker 1: wasn't me, and I was like, how is this all

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Speaker 1: gonna like? Air? Like? I mean, I thought it was

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Speaker 1: gonna be me, Like I thought we were in love

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Speaker 1: and so you know the fact that it wasn't me

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Speaker 1: and then this happened, and you know, I was uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: I was you know, I was worried, like my parents

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Speaker 1: would feel like they were being judged and like why

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Speaker 1: like for what, like there's no reason for that, But

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Speaker 1: they were super supportive of me. I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: the hardest part for me was how it all played

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Speaker 1: out of like how like everyone got to know me

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Speaker 1: throughout the season and like I am like a very fun,

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Speaker 1: light hearted, awkward person and like I'm not a seductress.

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Speaker 1: I'm not like this like you heard the like Arabian

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Speaker 1: music and like Zac says this not Mama, that's I like, thankfully,

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Speaker 1: like my family knows who I am. But I felt

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Speaker 1: bad because I felt like maybe like the people who

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Speaker 1: my family, like you know, they're friends and my other

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Speaker 1: family members and like everyone like they know who I am,

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Speaker 1: but like you know, no one knows, Like yeah, but

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Speaker 1: who was this like, and like anyone who knows me,

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Speaker 1: it's like Gabby's awkward, like she's not a seductress. But

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Speaker 1: that's why we love you, that's why you're so endearing.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah No, But even me watching it back,

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Speaker 1: I was like, well, you're a sexier then you give

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Speaker 1: yourself credit for. But I totally understand not feeling like

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Speaker 1: a seductress. Okay, So you just said that you felt

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Speaker 1: like it was you, that in that moment in the

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Speaker 1: Fantasy s Week you thought it was you, which I'd understand.

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Speaker 1: Why when did you start getting the gut feeling that

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Speaker 1: it wasn't you. I know, in my head, there were

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Speaker 1: two moments for you. One there would be the one

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Speaker 1: where you find out that he told Katie and then

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Speaker 1: like Katie was there and the whole like feeling like this,

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Speaker 1: you know, and in the fact that he wasn't looking

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Speaker 1: at you. The eye contacting was major because we knew

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Speaker 1: as an audience that when Zach wasn't looking at somebody

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Speaker 1: in the eyes, it was bad news. So you were

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Speaker 1: very much aware of that. Then the other moment, if

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk for you right now, was when you

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Speaker 1: were on the beach and he was like, there, I'm

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Speaker 1: still not sure what I'm gonna do. So I'm sure

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Speaker 1: that you were feeling great after Fantasy Suits and then

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Speaker 1: you're like, doubt, doubt, doubt, Yeah, yeah, I think well, honestly, like,

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Speaker 1: there were so many moments that Zach and I had

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Speaker 1: throughout this season where it felt like it was just

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Speaker 1: me and him, and we had a lot of things

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Speaker 1: in common that I think a lot of people didn't

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Speaker 1: get to see it. People are like, what's Gabby's still

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Speaker 1: doing here? But not mustard on waffles, not that one,

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Speaker 1: not that one. But no, we did have so much

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Speaker 1: in common and we had so many good moments where

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Speaker 1: it felt like it was just us and I didn't

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Speaker 1: really have a doubt in my mind, And like you

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Speaker 1: hear that, you hear Zach say that at some point,

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Speaker 1: like you've not doubted like our relationship this whole time,

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Speaker 1: You've had so much confidence in us, and I truly did.

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Speaker 1: And I and I saw like because of how similar

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Speaker 1: like our own healing journeys were, and how like we

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Speaker 1: related on those things, and like the things that really matter,

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Speaker 1: of like having a life with someone, of like how

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Speaker 1: will we get through things that are hard? Are you

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Speaker 1: going to pick me up when I'm down, Like are

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Speaker 1: we going to enjoy the good time together? Are we

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Speaker 1: going to get through the bad time together? Like there's

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Speaker 1: so much I felt like we could have been, like

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Speaker 1: had a really successful life together and like a very

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Speaker 1: happy life together. And I think he felt the same way.

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Speaker 1: And so, you know, I think I felt very comfortable

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Speaker 1: to let my guard down, to like to be emotional

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Speaker 1: in front of him, to share those sides of me,

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Speaker 1: to share my insecurities, and he did the same to me.

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Speaker 1: And so I think as soon as it there was

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Speaker 1: just like this feeling like I can't say like it

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Speaker 1: was one one necessarily thing that he did, but I

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Speaker 1: mean eye contact, that rose, ceremony, obviously those were things.

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Speaker 1: But I just could feel like his energy like it

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Speaker 1: shifted and I could tell that it was not me

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Speaker 1: at that last date. It was not after after I

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Speaker 1: met his family, like we were in a really good spot.

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Speaker 1: Like honestly, I still was feeling really excited. I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's trying to do the right thing, he's

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Speaker 1: trying to be honest, Like I can look past this, Like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I want somebody who's honest in life. I

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Speaker 1: want somebody who you know, you know, follows their gut

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Speaker 1: and their heart and like all these things. So I

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Speaker 1: was like, I'll look past this. But in that moment

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Speaker 1: and then at that last chance date on the beach,

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Speaker 1: I could just tell that his energy was like different

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Speaker 1: and something was off and some of that could have

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Speaker 1: been me. It might not have just been him like

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Speaker 1: I could have. I also, you know, you spend so

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Speaker 1: much time just by yourself thinking, and I think also

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Speaker 1: I was, you know, time gives you more perspective, right,

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Speaker 1: and so I think I was also having the time

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Speaker 1: to think about okay, like why did he break your trust?

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Speaker 1: Like why would he Why would you guys say that

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Speaker 1: it was going to be between you? And now it's

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Speaker 1: you know, he Katie knows like the like other people know. Like, um,

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Speaker 1: obviously at that time I didn't know that, you know

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Speaker 1: how how many people knew, but um, it's it was

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Speaker 1: just like I think I was thinking through it more

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Speaker 1: and then I could feel his energy was different, and

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Speaker 1: I said that that day like I I almost sent

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Speaker 1: myself home that day, um, and I I ended up

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Speaker 1: staying and I I had a conversation that like was like,

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Speaker 1: how how would you feel you know if you were

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Speaker 1: on the other side of this. And I never wanted

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Speaker 1: to do that to Katie. I never wanted to put

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Speaker 1: her through like feeling like she was the chosen one

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Speaker 1: because out of pity, she was always the choice. She

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Speaker 1: was Zack's choice. But I never wanted her to feel

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Speaker 1: like it was just because it was her by default

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Speaker 1: because I left. But I knew on that last date

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Speaker 1: on the beach. So that's just really kind of you.

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Speaker 1: You basically took the courage to just walk up to

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Speaker 1: that podium so that she would not feel chosen by default,

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Speaker 1: even though that wasn't her sation, that wasn't a situation

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Speaker 1: at all. Yeah, I mean there's still a level of

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Speaker 1: hope you have, right Like I wasn't like I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna stay here and humiliate myself. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I had a little bit of hope, like you know,

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Speaker 1: you always you always think in your head, like, well,

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Speaker 1: what if it is me, what if I'm being crazy,

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Speaker 1: Like what if I'm you know, what if I'm so

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Speaker 1: in my head and like I'm just reading this completely wrong.

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Speaker 1: So there was a level of hope that I had felt.

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Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, Ultimately, I really

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Speaker 1: thought about going home, and you know, the putting myself

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Speaker 1: in Katie's shoes of if I was on the other

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Speaker 1: side of this, how I would feel was ultimately what

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Speaker 1: made me stay because I knew, like I knew after

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Speaker 1: that last day, you guys saw me say it like

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Speaker 1: it's not me. And you guys saw me get out

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Speaker 1: of the car that day and step in the mud

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Speaker 1: and say, you guys, clean this up before Katie gets here, like,

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Speaker 1: don't do this to her. It was like oddly beautiful,

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Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah, but I but I knew that it

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Speaker 1: wasn't me. Another reason to love you even more. Really so,

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Speaker 1: when you're on Caitlin's podcast Grape Therapy, Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: off the vine Grape Therapy, you talked a lot about

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Speaker 1: therapy and about your healing journey and about ADHD. How

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Speaker 1: do you feel like therapy and you working through heartbreak

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Speaker 1: of your past before going on the Bachelor played a

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Speaker 1: role in your behavior and your actions? Did you maybe

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Speaker 1: think more and you aren't so rational? And then I

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Speaker 1: want to know, how do you feel like add played

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Speaker 1: a choice in your in your role in your choices?

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Speaker 1: Because I yeah, that ADHD can really change the way

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Speaker 1: somebody makes choices in life. Yeah, I think for me,

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Speaker 1: like my ADHD, in an environment like that was heightened.

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Speaker 1: You have so much stimulation going on. There's so much

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Speaker 1: around you. It is overwhelming. You aren't getting Like for me,

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Speaker 1: like I'm used to exercising every day. I am used

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Speaker 1: to sleeping, you know, at a regular schedule. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of things that I do to help regulate some

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Speaker 1: of those symptoms of it that I feel. Um and

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Speaker 1: and you know, I didn't have that necessarily that that

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Speaker 1: same routine like I had. You know, I did the

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Speaker 1: best that I could with the environment that I was

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Speaker 1: in and um, and so I've normally on a daily basis,

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Speaker 1: like I probably can can handle those emotions that I

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Speaker 1: feel a little better. Um. You know, if I'm feeling

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Speaker 1: super upset about something else, I know I need to

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Speaker 1: go on a walk or go our exercides or do

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Speaker 1: something that'll like kind of get my mind off of it.

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Speaker 1: But I feel emotions, and this is a common thing

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Speaker 1: for ADHD for women. UM like feeling emotions very intensely,

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Speaker 1: very strong and very quickly and having a hard time

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Speaker 1: regulating those emotions. And so for me, you know, as

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Speaker 1: it got more and more intense and more and more stimulating.

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Speaker 1: Um you see that come out more and more. It's

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Speaker 1: also more time away from my therapist and more time

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Speaker 1: away from like my normal life. And so for me, honestly,

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Speaker 1: therapy taught me a lot of good tools going into

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Speaker 1: the show, you know about you know, like just taking

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Speaker 1: a deep breath when I need to, like trying to

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Speaker 1: find things that will like separate me a little bit,

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Speaker 1: or thinking about conversations of like, you know, she taught

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Speaker 1: me something like do you need to say something right now?

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Speaker 1: Like does this need to be said? Doesn't need to

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Speaker 1: be said right now? Does it need to be said

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Speaker 1: by you? And you know, when you have all these

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Speaker 1: emotions around you. That was a tool that she had

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Speaker 1: taught me, you know, with some of the impulsivity that

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Speaker 1: I feel sometimes that I really did feel like I

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Speaker 1: used in the show because I would just kind of

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Speaker 1: think that to myself of Okay, do you need to

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Speaker 1: say this right now? And then outside of that, like

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Speaker 1: I think the healing that I had done, you're not

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Speaker 1: like suddenly healed like it, and a lot of people

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Speaker 1: like I've had so much support, but a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are like she's on and she's not mentally stable,

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Speaker 1: and like all these things, and this is how I

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Speaker 1: imagine they speak. I don't know actually how they sound,

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Speaker 1: but that's how I imagine they speak. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a healing journey. It's not suddenly you're healed and

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Speaker 1: you're fixed and all of a sudden you're perfect. It's

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Speaker 1: a journey. And like I have insecurities. I have deep insecurities,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I'm still working on figuring out how

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Speaker 1: to cope with those. But I don't think they're ever

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Speaker 1: gonna go away. I don't think people's insecurities ever go away.

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Speaker 1: You might just get better at hiding them. And I'm

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Speaker 1: never gonna hide how I feel. And that's something I

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Speaker 1: you know, i'd get upset in private and maybe people

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Speaker 1: wouldn't see it so publicly. But you know, my therapist

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Speaker 1: also taught me, like it's okay to not be okay,

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Speaker 1: Like you don't have to always be okay. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm glad people got to see my emotional

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Speaker 1: side because that's how I was feeling and it was

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Speaker 1: intense and it was emotional, and so I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: as I continue you to heal, like I'll continue to

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Speaker 1: learn things about me that are not you know, that

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Speaker 1: are perfectly imperfect and that still need work, and it's

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Speaker 1: just like an evolving thing. And so I don't know,

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Speaker 1: therapy is great. It's taught me a lot, and honestly

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Speaker 1: the show was kind of like therapy. So yeah, through

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Speaker 1: this bachelor journey, I've learned that a lot of the

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Speaker 1: people that say, oh, she's unhinged because we're all vocal

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Speaker 1: and open about our emotions are usually they really got

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Speaker 1: to either have a reality check and realize that they

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Speaker 1: probably act the same way in their house, or they

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Speaker 1: need to go to therapy and like, and you live

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Speaker 1: life a little bit more, you need to like uncover

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Speaker 1: that you need to release. Yes, yes, all right. So

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Speaker 1: I just want to end this by saying that, like,

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Speaker 1: Ben Higgins definitely should have been here for you as

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Speaker 1: my permanent co host, but like for you, he really

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Speaker 1: needed to be here because he wrote a whole book

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Speaker 1: about being unlovable and that is an insecurity that you

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Speaker 1: suffer suffer with and you really really shouldn't because you

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Speaker 1: are so lovable. And I just wanted to say, like,

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Speaker 1: when you were in the back of that suv and

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Speaker 1: you're like nobody's ever gonna love me like there's something

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Speaker 1: wrong with me. I'm unlovable. I'm like you know, Gabby,

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Speaker 1: that you are just you just haven't found that guy yet.

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Speaker 1: And that guy, when you find him, is going to

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Speaker 1: love the out of you. Someday, someday come along. But

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Speaker 1: thank you, of course I appreciate that, of course. All right,

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Speaker 1: well it's been a pleasure. Wish we had more time

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Speaker 1: with you, and maybe we will see you soon on

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Speaker 1: our TVs or here on zoom. All right, yeah, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much, thank you so much, so good meeting you.

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Speaker 1: Followed the Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on

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00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.