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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joe Wasn't All and I'm Tracy Alloway. So Tracy, Obviously,

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Speaker 1: everyone knows about the so called labor shortage this year,

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Speaker 1: like we've we've talked about it many times on the show,

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Speaker 1: but numerous employers up and down different industries have all

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Speaker 1: talked about the difficulty they've had in hiring or at

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Speaker 1: least hiring at the same levels and wage points as

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Speaker 1: they had a pre pandemic. Yeah, truly, it's been a

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Speaker 1: year of shortages or I guess maybe maybe scarcity is

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Speaker 1: a better way of putting it, both in terms of

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Speaker 1: like the supply chain, which we've spoken a lot about,

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Speaker 1: but also in terms of labor market. So a lot

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Speaker 1: of employers saying that they can't find the right employees,

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Speaker 1: or if they find the right employees, then they don't

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Speaker 1: turn up to actually work, or they're all quitting on

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Speaker 1: mass to do something else. I have a lot of

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Speaker 1: questions about what else is that other people are actually

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Speaker 1: leaving to do. But that seems to be you know,

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Speaker 1: the anecdotes that we keep hearing over and over from

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Speaker 1: the labor market, right, And it's important to note anecdotes

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Speaker 1: from the employer's side. Obviously the anecdotes from the labor

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Speaker 1: side might look different. One area that from what I understand,

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Speaker 1: is have uh and we'll get drilled down into specifics,

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Speaker 1: but public sector employment has been tough, and I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of governments to particularly areas where people have

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Speaker 1: pensions that they can retire to and so forth. You know,

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Speaker 1: for a long time post grade financial crisis, the public

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Speaker 1: sector cut a lot of jobs. But my understanding right

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Speaker 1: now is it's the opposite where the public sector by

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Speaker 1: and large is having a really hard time recruiting, and

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Speaker 1: of course public sector is more limited budget flexibility and

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Speaker 1: so forth then businesses are. But that's a whole area

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Speaker 1: or sub component of the labor market shortage that we

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Speaker 1: haven't really talked about. Yeah, it's kind of an interesting

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Speaker 1: one because is you know, for years, if you worked

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Speaker 1: in the public sector, it was considered a very safe

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Speaker 1: and stable and to some extent, desirable job. And I

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Speaker 1: have to say I'm kind of speaking slightly from experience

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Speaker 1: here because I just realized my mother worked in the

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Speaker 1: public sector for Austria and she just took early retirement

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Speaker 1: last year. I think there's one of the people that

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Speaker 1: basically like threw her hands up and said, it's not

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Speaker 1: worth it anymore. I'm just going to retire early and

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Speaker 1: avoid all this pandemic related stress and um, you know,

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Speaker 1: take my retirement benefits and and go live my life.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, Now, of course, when it comes to government,

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Speaker 1: their varying degrees to which the public actually interfaces with

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Speaker 1: the government. But there's no question that for a lot

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Speaker 1: of parents, particularly including myself, over the last two years,

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Speaker 1: one of the big issues has been schools and getting

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Speaker 1: to school, and that is sort of for people, for

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Speaker 1: parents who have children kind of one of the key

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Speaker 1: ways that they interact with public institutions. And so whether

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Speaker 1: those are functioning, whether AHM staffing, whether they can get

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Speaker 1: the kids to school h H is to what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about. That is a huge way in which these

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Speaker 1: shortages can or again these mismatches perhaps are this scarcity.

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Speaker 1: I keep using shortages even though I really think that's

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Speaker 1: like sort of employers and framing ends up being a

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Speaker 1: real issue for the for the general public. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: the only thing I know about this is basically from

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Speaker 1: your tweets, But there is apparently there is apparently a

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Speaker 1: shortage of school bus drivers, and as you just pointed out,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is particularly a sensitive issue for parents.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we talk about inflation being painful for

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Speaker 1: people who feel like they're no longer able to feed

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Speaker 1: their families or it's going to cost them a lot

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Speaker 1: more than it used to. And I feel like you're right,

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Speaker 1: this is probably one area where the labor shortage would

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Speaker 1: actually be particularly felt by parents. And the question I

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Speaker 1: have is whether or not this is an idiosyncratic development,

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Speaker 1: because maybe there are individual things around the school bus

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Speaker 1: driver market that make it more difficult to hire the

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Speaker 1: right people, or whether this is a reflection of that

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Speaker 1: broader trend that you were just describing of people really,

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Speaker 1: you know, the great resignation that we keep hearing so

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Speaker 1: much about and people just deciding that they don't want

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Speaker 1: to drive school buses for a living anymore. Well, I'm

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Speaker 1: really excited. We're going to dive right into it. Before

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Speaker 1: I do, I just want to say my daughter, she

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Speaker 1: goes to school very close to our house, as she

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Speaker 1: could walk, but she did go to summer camp on

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Speaker 1: Staten Island uh the summer, so she did have to

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Speaker 1: take a school bus for the first time. So this

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Speaker 1: is an important topic for me, and we have the

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Speaker 1: perfect guest to discuss it. We're gonna be speaking with

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Speaker 1: Corey Muirhead. He's the executive vice president at Logan Bus

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Speaker 1: Company and Affiliates. It's the largest New York City public

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Speaker 1: school UH bus contractor in the area, has two thousand

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Speaker 1: buses in New York City plus another five on Long Island,

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Speaker 1: and up until very recently, he was the president of

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Speaker 1: the New York School Bus Contractors Association. So we have

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Speaker 1: the perfect guest to talk about what is going on

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Speaker 1: with school bus drivers. Corey, thank you for coming on

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Speaker 1: outlots Hey, Joe and Tacy, thank you very much for

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Speaker 1: having me. So obviously we're going to talk about the

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Speaker 1: claims that there's a school bus shortage or a driver shortage,

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Speaker 1: to be more specifically. But before we do, and before

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Speaker 1: we get into current conditions, why do you give us

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Speaker 1: like a brief overview of what a what pre pandemic

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Speaker 1: normal look like in terms of how the market works

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Speaker 1: and how many drivers you employed and how much they're paid,

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Speaker 1: and just sort of like just what what normal looked

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Speaker 1: like pre pandemic. So, pre pandemic people were coming through

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Speaker 1: the door and they wanted to be hired. One of

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Speaker 1: the things that we see now post pandemic that was

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Speaker 1: still very prevalent pre pandemic, and one of the big

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Speaker 1: things that we're pushing as an industry is no matter

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Speaker 1: what time frame it was, it's always extremely difficult to

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Speaker 1: become a school bus driver. It's one of the most

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Speaker 1: heavily regulated industries and it is a regulatory marathon. But

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Speaker 1: for good reason, right you want to put on the

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Speaker 1: most professional, expert people drivers that are transporting kids. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're transporting the most precious cargo. So for obvious and

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Speaker 1: for safe reasons, you need to have those regulatory hurdles

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Speaker 1: in order to put the best and brightest on the road.

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Speaker 1: So be that as it may. Back before the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: people were coming through the door, but there was certainly

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a a stagnant, a stagnation happening there.

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Speaker 1: And you know, was it wages? Was it because the

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Speaker 1: drivers were only getting six hours per pay. A lot

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Speaker 1: of the companies outside of New York City don't offer pensions,

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Speaker 1: and they don't they offer four one ks or the benefits.

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Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that you see there's

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Speaker 1: a dichotomy between New York City and the surrounding areas

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Speaker 1: of Westchester, Long Island, et cetera. Because New York City

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Speaker 1: offers family benefits, full time, forty hour paying jobs with pension,

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Speaker 1: and a mound in Westchester do not. So you certainly,

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Speaker 1: you certainly saw some people leaving the industry because with

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Speaker 1: everything going on, people were coming into this industry. The

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Speaker 1: pay may have not been as good as other industries,

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Speaker 1: but they were coming because of one the stability of

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Speaker 1: a pension and two because of the family health benefits

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Speaker 1: that you were able to receive. Now, another big thing

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Speaker 1: about the city and Long Island, and this is what

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Speaker 1: we're all kind of getting together and racking our brains about,

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Speaker 1: is you have a job is like despite being the

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Speaker 1: length of a school year, like a teacher, when the

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Speaker 1: teachers are obviously that are paid than school bus drivers.

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Speaker 1: School bus drivers are paid basically forty weeks out of

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Speaker 1: fifty two weeks of the year. So if you're looking

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Speaker 1: for a full time job, that's extremely difficult to not

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Speaker 1: be paid for three months out of a twelve month year.

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Speaker 1: So we started to really see people exit the industry

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Speaker 1: there as well. A lot of times this industry was

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Speaker 1: flooded with retirees because of just the flexibility of the hours,

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Speaker 1: the shortness of the routes, certain things that you were

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Speaker 1: able to do that it was you know a lot

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Speaker 1: of retirees in the NYPD, f D and Y sanitation

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Speaker 1: other second jobs that people would retire forty fifty and

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Speaker 1: then come and drive a school bus because it only

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Speaker 1: took a couple of hours a day for them. That

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Speaker 1: was all great and well pre pandemic. Now we'll get

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Speaker 1: into why post pandemic that is just completely non existent.

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Speaker 1: But that was the flexibility we had where we had

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Speaker 1: the full time people in the part time people. So

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Speaker 1: can I just press you on this point because I

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Speaker 1: think it will inform the rest of our discussion. But

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Speaker 1: can you give us, like, you know, if you were

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Speaker 1: trying to sell someone on becoming a school bus driver,

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Speaker 1: what would be the big selling points that you would

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Speaker 1: give them, What is the attraction about the job, and

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Speaker 1: historically what kind of people I realized you just mentioned retirees,

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Speaker 1: but what kind of people would have been most interested

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Speaker 1: in becoming drivers? The people that would be most interested

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Speaker 1: in becoming drivers are community members. Flex time flexibility, right,

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Speaker 1: So you have people that maybe haven't been in an industry,

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Speaker 1: are are new to entering uh the job workforce, and

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Speaker 1: they say, hey, what can I do that's something around

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Speaker 1: the block or that gives me the flexibility if I

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Speaker 1: have children, I five, if I have other things to do.

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Speaker 1: So the reason why a lot of people became school

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Speaker 1: bus drivers because you got your job done early in

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Speaker 1: the morning, you have the flexibility to do some of

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Speaker 1: the things in the middle of the day what you

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Speaker 1: needed to do, and then you did the afternoon route

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Speaker 1: and you got to do whatever you need to do

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Speaker 1: at night. As well as being a part of your community,

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Speaker 1: you were around your neighborhood. Many of these school buses,

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Speaker 1: school bus companies facilities are in heavily densely populated neighborhoods,

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Speaker 1: so a lot of people work walked to work. There's

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Speaker 1: very seldom do I have many drivers that are driving

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Speaker 1: to the facilities. So that was another big, big sticking point.

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Speaker 1: Now once again probably the largest thing, and it with

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Speaker 1: certain companies was the stability of the industry pre pandemic.

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Speaker 1: Our industry is recession proof, but it's not pandemic proof.

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Speaker 1: So what we saw during the Great Financial Crisis back

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Speaker 1: in o eight oh nine we saw we had so

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Speaker 1: many people applying for jobs that there had to be

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Speaker 1: layoffs and waiting lists. That has completely gone done A

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Speaker 1: one eight. So it's very interesting to see in this

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Speaker 1: life cycle, you know, from two thousand and eight to

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Speaker 1: two one it's uh, it's the complete opposite. But like

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Speaker 1: I said, you had people lining down the block because

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Speaker 1: you were able to do and and as you know,

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Speaker 1: as we get into it there, as you continue to

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Speaker 1: escalate through your years of longevity and tenure, you get

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Speaker 1: paid more. But because of that flexibility, some people do

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Speaker 1: have second jobs. And when the financial crisis happened, that's

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Speaker 1: what we saw. A lot of people were retirees or

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Speaker 1: people from you know, the finance sector. We're saying, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I need a job. They are hiring, school

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Speaker 1: buses aren't going away. I can do this job in

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Speaker 1: the morning, in the afternoon, and then I could do

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Speaker 1: what I need to do in the middle of the

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Speaker 1: day and at night as well. So that was the

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Speaker 1: attractiveness of the industry pre pandemic. You know, it's interesting

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Speaker 1: you mentioned regulation, and we have high barriers to entry

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Speaker 1: into space for a very good reason because you know,

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Speaker 1: it's children and it's the same with daycare and childcare.

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Speaker 1: But there's also this tension in childcare and daycare where

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Speaker 1: the very the regulation of childcare facilities is extremely high,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of the people who are in childcare itself,

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Speaker 1: particularly teachers, aren't paid particularly well. Can you just give

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Speaker 1: it a little more clarity out of sort of like

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Speaker 1: what school bus driver pay grades looked like a normal time.

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Speaker 1: So we'll talk about the greater New York area, and

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Speaker 1: for New York City, it's forty hours paid pay per week,

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Speaker 1: and there's an average between twenty and twenty two dollars

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Speaker 1: per hour. When you get outside to Long Island in Westchester,

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Speaker 1: that average dips down to about eighteen dollars an hour.

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Speaker 1: There are certain different you know, companies offer different packages.

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Speaker 1: If you don't take benefits, then you can be offered

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Speaker 1: a package as high as twenty five dollars an hour,

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Speaker 1: but then you start to tail that you cut back

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Speaker 1: on the number of hours that you're paid. So many

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Speaker 1: times in Westchester, along Island and even upstate, you'll start

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Speaker 1: to see a five hour guarantee or a six hour guarantee.

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Speaker 1: And that's really the problem with our industry right now

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Speaker 1: that really needs to be addressed is if you want

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Speaker 1: to attract people, this has to be more of a

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Speaker 1: full time job. That's something that the industry has really

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Speaker 1: it's really shined a light on what's going on right

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Speaker 1: now that no longer do people just want the twenty

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Speaker 1: five dollars an hour for five hours a day. You

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Speaker 1: need to give them a full day's paid work. The

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Speaker 1: retire re section. That's kind of where that that marriage

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Speaker 1: came from, because these retirees only wanted to work part

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Speaker 1: time or quote unquote part time, and that's non existent

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Speaker 1: as I said before, So you know, it runs the

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Speaker 1: gamut between eighteen dollars and twenty two dollars. There's different

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Speaker 1: types of school buses that we can get into a

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Speaker 1: little bit longer of why other people aren't coming into

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Speaker 1: this industry. As you mentioned before the Great Retirement. There's

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Speaker 1: type A, which is minivans. These minivans transport special needs

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Speaker 1: education children. And then there's type C, which is your

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Speaker 1: conventional big school bus that you guys see on the

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Speaker 1: road quite often and that transports the general education children.

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Speaker 1: Could you may describe how the contracting system works in

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Speaker 1: New York because I think not a lot of people

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Speaker 1: will necessarily be familiar with it. But you know, if

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Speaker 1: a district needs school bus drivers, how do they actually

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Speaker 1: go about acquiring those or um, you know, striking a

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Speaker 1: deal with a company that can provide them. So there's

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Speaker 1: two different ways that this industry operates. There's the public

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Speaker 1: sector and the private sector. So let's go micro to macro.

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Speaker 1: New York City is a hundred percent privately contracted. New

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Speaker 1: York State is sixty privately contracted. The nationwide is forty

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Speaker 1: private contract privately contracted. So the majority of the majority

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Speaker 1: of the nation is publicly contracted, but New York State

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Speaker 1: is majority privately contracted. How you get a private contract

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Speaker 1: or a public contract, so it works two ways. It's

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Speaker 1: an RFP or an RFB, and RFP is a request

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Speaker 1: for proposal and an RFB is a request for bid.

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Speaker 1: The DIP prince between the two is very simple. And

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Speaker 1: RFP has a select criteria of about ten agenda items

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Speaker 1: that you have to master and you get scored based

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Speaker 1: on that criteria. So it's safety, operational history, insurance, age

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Speaker 1: of vehicle driver abstracts. It's it's a it's a select

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Speaker 1: criteria so that you are you are the most fit

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Speaker 1: and professional operation and obviously prices, of course one of

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Speaker 1: the bigger ones. But there's there's a myriad of different

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Speaker 1: things that you need to score the highest on to

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Speaker 1: be selected as that vendor. And you are selected by

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Speaker 1: a panel of about three people within the school district

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Speaker 1: or the municipality, and they look at your entire proposal

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Speaker 1: and they say, we deem this operator the most fit

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Speaker 1: operationally financially, and we would like to go ahead with them.

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Speaker 1: On the opposite side of that is what's called a

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Speaker 1: request forbid. A request for bid is very simple. It

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Speaker 1: is the lowest responsible bidder. So if you bid the

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Speaker 1: lowest number, so long as that district of municipality goes

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Speaker 1: in there and they say, okay, they have the facilities,

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Speaker 1: they have the buses, they have the drivers there will

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Speaker 1: go with them. It's very simple. A lot of the districts,

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Speaker 1: the majority of the districts opt for an RFP because

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Speaker 1: of all of the extra things that you have to

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Speaker 1: put in there. Right, you know, you want a safe, reliable,

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Speaker 1: good company, You want newer buses on the road. So

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Speaker 1: a lot of people in their RFPs they'll put in

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Speaker 1: we're gonna promise to purchase forty brand new vehicles you know,

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Speaker 1: if you do an RFB, you don't have to put

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Speaker 1: in the age of your fleet. Now, if you're a

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Speaker 1: school district, then you don't want to have fifteen year

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Speaker 1: old buses, dirty diesel buses for every single bus on

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Speaker 1: the road. No, when you look at that, and as

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Speaker 1: when you're a board of education or superintendent and you're

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Speaker 1: looking at these rfp s and RFPs, you have a

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Speaker 1: fiduciary responsibility to put the safest, most reliable, and also

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Speaker 1: environmentally friendly vehicles on the road. So many oftentimes they

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Speaker 1: opt for an RFP rather than an RFPA. So let

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Speaker 1: me ask you another question. You as a Logan bus company,

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Speaker 1: your company largest NYC contractor, you have two thousand bus

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Speaker 1: and NYC how do what is the market share of

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Speaker 1: your of those two thousand buses in New York City?

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Speaker 1: And how do market share decisions work? How can they

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Speaker 1: change over time? To what degree do you compete with

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Speaker 1: other operate fleet operators within that our New York City

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Speaker 1: school bus contractors? So there's very little competition outside of

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Speaker 1: the two bids that went on in two thousand thirteen

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Speaker 1: and two thousand fourteen as far as market share, where

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Speaker 1: about twenty two to fluctuating on how many routes are

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Speaker 1: created each year. And how it works is you you

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Speaker 1: get you pick your routes at the beginning of each year,

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Speaker 1: the d o E and OPT have to route each child,

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Speaker 1: and you know, you have a certain of what's called

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Speaker 1: restoration rights and you get restored your contract routes. But overall,

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Speaker 1: with including pre K, there's about ten thousands school bus

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Speaker 1: routes in New York City and we operate two thousand.

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Speaker 1: So just you know, for easy context of the market. Now,

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Speaker 1: as far as competition and how we grow and and

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Speaker 1: and you know what, how we scale or things like that,

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Speaker 1: this is an extremely difficult job. It's an extremely difficult industry,

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Speaker 1: I should say job. Excuse me, uh, it's extremely extremely

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Speaker 1: capital intensive. And a few of the things that are

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Speaker 1: i'd call threats to the industry in terms of businesses

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Speaker 1: staying in business are the cost of vehicles, the cost

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Speaker 1: of real estate, and the cost of insurance. Obviously, because

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Speaker 1: we are school buses transporting children, we have very high

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Speaker 1: levels of insurance, and with high levels of insurance come

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Speaker 1: high levels of litigation. So many school bus companies have

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Speaker 1: gone out of business or they have was up shop

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Speaker 1: because they could not afford to pay for these expenses.

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Speaker 1: Vehicles are six figures. You know, brand new type C

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Speaker 1: school bus costs about anywhere from a hundred to a

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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty grand, depending on which original equipment manufacturer

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Speaker 1: you're coming with. And then, of course the other thing

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Speaker 1: being who can pay the most for the same pool

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Speaker 1: of people. We all operate in the five boroughs of

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Speaker 1: New York City, and some of us have the same

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Speaker 1: collective bargaining agreement with unions. Some of us have other unions.

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Speaker 1: But when you are all operating in the same space

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Speaker 1: and you're fighting for the same person, you have to

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Speaker 1: get very creative and crafty on what you're willing to

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Speaker 1: offer these people. So a lot of the smaller companies,

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Speaker 1: you know, if I were to go and offer an

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Speaker 1: extra five days paid off on top of the New

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Speaker 1: York City five page leave a smaller company that operates

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Speaker 1: a hundred or two hundred busses, it's gonna be very

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Speaker 1: difficult for them to offer an additional five paid days

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Speaker 1: off for a hundred people. That's going to really really

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Speaker 1: handstring their operations. So that's where we see a lot

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Speaker 1: of companies fold and consolidation of the industry out, whether

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Speaker 1: it be acquisition or for the most part, it's just

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Speaker 1: it's companies throwing in the towel and then the Department

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Speaker 1: of Education distributing the work to the vendors. So this

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Speaker 1: is something that I wanted to ask you based on

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Speaker 1: your previous description of how the contracting process actually works.

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Speaker 1: But if you're a school bus company, how do you

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Speaker 1: actually make money in this business while providing a sort

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Speaker 1: of economic rate to the people who are buying your services?

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Speaker 1: Because I imagine the ceiling on running a school bus

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Speaker 1: operation could in theory be almost limitless. You know, you

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Speaker 1: could have totally brand new school buses because everyone would

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Speaker 1: love to have their kids driven in a brand new vehicle.

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Speaker 1: You could have the us possible school bus drivers, people

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Speaker 1: with years and years of experience, because obviously parents would

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Speaker 1: feel more comfortable with that. It feels like the cost

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Speaker 1: could rapidly spiral out of control. But clearly people are

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Speaker 1: in this industry. You have lots of companies competing for

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Speaker 1: these contracts, So how are they actually making money and

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Speaker 1: how do they sort of balance safety with the need

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Speaker 1: for profit. So that's a great question, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: a very difficult one. So here the couple of easy

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Speaker 1: answers to that, and I say easy facetiously. But the

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Speaker 1: ways that we maintain and mitigate exposure when you talk

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Speaker 1: about being able to turn a profit is you have

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Speaker 1: to stay on top of your insurance and your insurances

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Speaker 1: and safety. So what I mean by that is accident

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Speaker 1: courses to limit the number of vehicles a vehicular accidents

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Speaker 1: you get into so that your order liability claims stay low.

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Speaker 1: Workers compensation. We have such an extensive workers compensation program

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Speaker 1: because as I'm sure you could imagine, I have two

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Speaker 1: thousand buses employees, we have quite a bit of workers

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Speaker 1: compensation claims. So to stay on top of that program,

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Speaker 1: mitigate the workers compensation claims, mitigate the losses, return to

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Speaker 1: work policies, things like that when you can, when you're

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Speaker 1: able to control and mitigate those type of costs, that

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Speaker 1: is way to turn profit. You know, you can't sacrifice safety, right,

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Speaker 1: so you still have to put the best, latest and

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Speaker 1: greatest vehicles on the road. But what you can do

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Speaker 1: by that is if you have great credit and you

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Speaker 1: build a grood company, you can leverage debt. So if

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Speaker 1: I'm going to make sure that I pour the money

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Speaker 1: in my company, back into labor and back into and

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Speaker 1: I reinvest into my vehicles. I can, I can buy

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Speaker 1: vehicles at an extremely large number of quantity, and I

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Speaker 1: could have great rates to buy those vehicles. So that's

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Speaker 1: a great way to leverage debt in our industry is

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Speaker 1: that if you want to have a good, safe operation,

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Speaker 1: you reinvest your money or you use the money that

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Speaker 1: you have to debt to buy debt down on brand

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Speaker 1: new vehicles. And then you know, as far as other things,

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Speaker 1: it's a juggling act between the labor and the number

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Speaker 1: of employees that you have to run your operation. You know,

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Speaker 1: as far as efficiency wise, you really have to end

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Speaker 1: like operational operational logistics. You have to take a really deep,

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Speaker 1: deep dive and understanding your personnel. How many people, though

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Speaker 1: I do I need to run dispatch to get out

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Speaker 1: a hundred buses? How oh man, it's two? Okay, And

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Speaker 1: that may seem like a lot, but at the very

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Speaker 1: least you need one dispatcher for for every fifty buses.

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Speaker 1: Think about that for a second. This person is responsible

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Speaker 1: for GPS and answering phone calls and making sure that

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Speaker 1: they can get the driver on the radio. So even

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Speaker 1: fifty fifties a lot. But that's exactly it. So you

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Speaker 1: really have to get down into the leeds, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's more about you don't make money, you don't make

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Speaker 1: more money on each round. You have to find streamlined

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Speaker 1: operational efficiencies in order to make money make more money.

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Speaker 1: So I think we've got a pretty good understanding of

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Speaker 1: like how the market structure generally works in this space.

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Speaker 1: So what don't we now address the so called the

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Speaker 1: school bus driver shortage? So you talked a little bit

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Speaker 1: about what looked like you said, this is a recession

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Speaker 1: proof industry, but it's not a pandemic proof industry. You said,

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Speaker 1: post GFC you had applications out the door because it

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Speaker 1: was a stable very different today. Why do you talk

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Speaker 1: us about here we are, it's December, what are the

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Speaker 1: new stresses on the running of your business? And what

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Speaker 1: are what are some of the overall numbers of how

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Speaker 1: how things changed? Sure, so let's go back to March

433
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: when the entire nation school bus school education system shutdown.

434
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: Obviously we were low on the picking order, right, Respectfully,

435
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: I completely understand that. But here's the problem. And as

436
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 1: we say, you know, the school bus starts the education process,

437
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 1: especially especially in minority neighborhoods and lower income neighborhoods where

438
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: you see twice as many nearly twice as many people

439
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,199
Speaker 1: take the school bus to school in those neighborhoods to

440
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: get their education. So we weren't being spoken to by

441
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,199
Speaker 1: the contract The contractors were not being spoken to by

442
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: the school district. The school districts had a lot on

443
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: their hands, municipalities had a lot on their hands. But

444
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: we tried to explain to them, this industry is not

445
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 1: just a lights which you don't turn it on and off.

446
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: These are some of the most heavily regulated and highly

447
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 1: licensed individuals in the state. You need to have a

448
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: plan for us. They didn't have a plan for us.

449
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: And what happened was you saw a lot of these

450
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 1: CDL drivers say, you know, what the heck is going

451
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 1: on with my job? What am I supposed to do?

452
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: And a lot of the school districts and municipality said,

453
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: we're not going to pay the school bus contractors because

454
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 1: it would be seen as a gift of public funds. Now,

455
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 1: I'm not an attorney, I can't unpack that, but that

456
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,360
Speaker 1: was that was, you know, a full statement, and what

457
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: we saw was a lot of these school bus drivers,

458
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: as they mentioned before, that operating the same communities they

459
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 1: live in, the communities they opt rate. They're very upset

460
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: in the sense that they felt like they're you know,

461
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: the school districts and the municipalities turned their backs on them.

462
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: You know. For me, obviously, we tried to work with

463
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: the unions to keep them paid for a certain period

464
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: of time. We tried to keep their benefits for a

465
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: couple of months and things like that. But when I

466
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: am receiving zero revenue, I of course had to lay off,

467
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: lay them off, and you know that keeps you up

468
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,120
Speaker 1: at night. But concurrently with all of that going on,

469
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: you hear terrible, terrible stories that the transportation industry was

470
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: the second deadliest job during COVID. Even in New York

471
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: City alone, m t A experienced a hundred and fifty

472
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: six deaths. Now, the m t A union, one of

473
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: the m c A unions, is one of the school

474
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: bus unions. They all speak to each other. So it

475
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: became a very very difficult job. You were laid off

476
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: the people who were working, which, by the way, school

477
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: bus drivers and transit workers are considered essential employees. They

478
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: never get the same respect. And I'm not saying that

479
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: whether they should or not, but they should be at least,

480
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: you know, acknowledge as essential employees. So you had a

481
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: really bad perfect storm of you were laid off, you

482
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 1: weren't getting paid, the contractors couldn't do anything, and you

483
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: were hearing about these transportation deaths. And then you were

484
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: expected to come back that September and you're expected to

485
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: drive a school was filled with fifty unvaccinated children. Now,

486
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 1: this industry is the median age of a school bus

487
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: driver is fifty five years old. So this is a

488
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: pretty old and I say that relatively, this is a

489
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: pretty old workforce. There was there was quite some fear

490
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: amongst a lot of people to come back to work.

491
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 1: I'm talking back in September twenty now, quite a quite

492
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 1: a lot of fear about people coming back to work

493
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: transporting children that were unvaccinated. Despite all the measures that

494
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: we took, whether it was mandating masks, we had, we

495
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: had cleaning solutions to wipe down the buses, we lost

496
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: quite a bit of workforce then because of the fear

497
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: of unvaccinated children. So at the same time, during the pandemic,

498
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: when school bus drivers weren't working. They still had their CDLs.

499
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: What was the number one industry that boomed during the pandemic,

500
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: truck trucking and delivery. So many drivers went to go

501
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: work for Amazon and other delivery services because that was

502
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: pandemic proof. That was a pandemic proof industry. In fact,

503
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 1: it skyrocketed to ring the pandemic. So if you are

504
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: a CDL driver holder, and Amazon warehouses and last mile

505
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 1: services are popping up every day in a new neighborhood,

506
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 1: whether it's Brooklyn, whether it's Rockaway, whether it's Staten Island,

507
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: they have all of their bases covered in the five boroughs.

508
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: You can walk in there with the CDL and your

509
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: drug testing and all of your licenses still intact and say, hey,

510
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: put me on the road immediately. So that further decimated

511
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 1: our industry. Last year, if you remember, in September to June,

512
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: many of the schools were remote learning, so it was

513
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: a hybrid x. It was some days in school, some

514
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: days out of school, and there were quite a bit

515
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: of problems on how we're going to be paid for

516
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 1: that and not from the school districts, And then that

517
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: trickles down to quite a bit of problems on how

518
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: you're going to pay your drivers. So how was the

519
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 1: driver expected to only work three days out of the

520
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: week or only work two days out of the week.

521
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: Once again, that's strength that strike three, that that once

522
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: again decimated the industry. So those are the three really

523
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 1: big points from school from the school year on why

524
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: we see today when they said in September, hey, we're

525
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: going back to a d ready to go fully back

526
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: in school, and the industry said, whoa hold on. You've

527
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: been telling you guys for the last eighteen months there's

528
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: gonna be an issue here. So two things here, is

529
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: it possible to give like a rough estimate of how

530
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: many drivers were lost because they were you know, slightly

531
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: older retirees who are maybe worried about actually catching COVID

532
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: versus people who needed money or found better alternatives in

533
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: the form of Amazon and simply couldn't hang on to

534
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: the school bus job. And then secondly, I'm assuming that

535
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: the older generation of bus drivers probably isn't going to

536
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: come back into the workforce. Um, correct me if I'm wrong.

537
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: But on that assumption, where do you start to look

538
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: for new drivers? So the first part there was about

539
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: depends nation in statewide, there was a fifteen driver shortage,

540
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: so you lost you know, if it's the ten thousand

541
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: in New York City, you lost two people in a

542
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: New York City does a little bit better because of

543
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: the things that I spoke about before the forty hours

544
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: the union that that the health benefits and pension and

545
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: things like that. But no, across the state and across

546
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: the nation you saw about decline. And then to your

547
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: second point, Yeah, it's a very very very scarce job

548
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: market because there are no retirees and they're are no

549
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: older workforce to be here. So some of the creative

550
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: things that we've been doing is we're trying to you know,

551
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: hire younger, trying to trying to hire people as a

552
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: stepping stone. And you know, whether it be hey, drive

553
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: a school bus for a couple of years before you

554
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: get your Class A and go onto trucking, or drive

555
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: a school bus before you you you do something bigger. Um,

556
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: it's been it's been a challenge and we're still racking

557
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: our brains. There's no right answer here. We're offering sign

558
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: on bonuses, were increasing our pay something you mentioned before

559
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: that is really big and something that the whole industry

560
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: is taking about you know, right now inflation, you know,

561
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: and we measured in our industry, but just by c

562
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: p I right now CPI is outpacing e C I

563
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: and e c I is the employer cost index. So

564
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: if those increases are if your bottom up there, how

565
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: are you expected to hire workforce? How you how am

566
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: I expected to film my film My void if if

567
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: inflation is outpacing the the employer uh costs index. So

568
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: you know, we're really trying to get creative here and

569
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: think of ways outside of the box to at ract

570
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: new people. One of the things when I mentioned the

571
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: younger workforce is once again trying to hit on that

572
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: flexibility of hours. Hey, if you only want to do

573
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: a PM route because you don't want to work in

574
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: the morning, will take you. I was wondering on that, like,

575
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: you know, like artists, like any thought of like just

576
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: like sort of the more classical gig worker types or

577
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 1: people who don't want to make it a career but

578
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: need a little extra money while they pursue their passion.

579
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: Is that a possible Is that a possible future school

580
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: bus driver? It is to a certain extent, But this

581
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: goes back to the difficulty It takes and the longevity

582
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,719
Speaker 1: it takes to become a school bush. You know, you

583
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: have to take five written tests, five written permit tests

584
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: to pass. You have to take a you know, you

585
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: have to learn about air breaks, you have to learn

586
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: about pre inspections, you have to know about transmission and suspensions, uh,

587
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: leaf springs. You know, I'm just throwing names out there, like,

588
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: you know, if you want to if you're a part

589
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: time person, if you're developing an app, or if you're

590
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: you're an accountant, or if you're doing something like that,

591
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: but what are you going to learn about shock absorbers

592
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: and brake systems? You know, it's a very difficult, difficult,

593
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: cumbersome process. And then on top of that, you still

594
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: have to get behind the road and pass your road

595
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: test and you need training. It's not like you just

596
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: get in this car and pass your d m V

597
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: road tests. No, we do driver's head and then the

598
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: same thing for school buses. So we're trying, we're trying

599
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: to figure out ways for people to to think of

600
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: like hey, we'll do split shifts, we'll do you know,

601
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: medical positions and things like that. But no, it's become

602
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: it's become very difficult so one of the things, um

603
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: that's obviously happening right now, and I should just include

604
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: our usual caveat, which is that we are recording this

605
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: on December six. But clearly there are concerns over the

606
00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: omicron variant of COVID, and we are seeing some you know,

607
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: additional steps to maybe not go back into full lockdowns.

608
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: But people are talking about, you know, more vaccination requirements

609
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: and perhaps more restrictions on the movement of people and

610
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: things like that. How do you expect that to impact

611
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: the school bus driver situation now? And are you worried

612
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: that it's sort of I guess undoes some of your

613
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: efforts when it comes to recruiting new drivers. Absolutely, it's

614
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: extremely extremely im I am extremely extremely nervous, especially if

615
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: you go into a remote option or if you do

616
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: a full lockdown. In both of those scenarios, it's very

617
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: hard to pay labor because if they're not going to

618
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: pay the contractors for the days that you are remote,

619
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: then the contractors can't pay labor. Then they're going to

620
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: look for other industries where they can continue to work

621
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: five days a week. You know, as we spoke about before,

622
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: if you're only working three months nine months out of

623
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: twelve months, and you have three months off being the

624
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: summer and the HOID breaks. You know you're going to

625
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: continue to further destroy the industry if you don't pay

626
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: them for the time off during the remoteness. So all

627
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: the efforts that we've had paying for training, we've been

628
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: working with government to make the road tests and the

629
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: regulatory process more efficient and eliminate some of the unneeded things,

630
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: and all of these goal, the goodwill and the progress

631
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: that we've built over the last four months a whole

632
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 1: from September December would be destroyed because all of that uncertainty.

633
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: Just like how the markets move with on the kron

634
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: the job markets going to move if if they if

635
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,919
Speaker 1: they see the writing on the wall is that there's

636
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: going to be a shutdown, They're going to look for

637
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 1: businesses that do not shut down when school shutdown. So

638
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: I want to get your take, UM. I think in

639
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: the September Governor Hocoll announced these plans to ease the

640
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: school bus driver shortage somewhat perhaps streamline the efficiency of

641
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,479
Speaker 1: the CDL system. Can you talk about have you seen

642
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: any effect of those UM proposals and what more could

643
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: the city or states or municipalities be doing to continue

644
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: to ease some of the stress you're facing. That's a

645
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: great question and that that's once again a lot to unpack,

646
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: so let me try and address all of that. We

647
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 1: worked with Governor Hopele's office there. They were great. Sometimes

648
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: when you work with government, I'm sure you guys know this,

649
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 1: they write down notes and then nothing comes of it

650
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: with respectfully and it's art because it's difficult. They have

651
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: to hear from every industry in every sector, and they

652
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: don't know what is right what is wrong, and they

653
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: take it with a grain of salt, but knock her

654
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: off as they did great. So we had meetings and

655
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: we had conference goals with them, and here are a

656
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: couple of things that that that they did really that

657
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: really helped our industry. As you guys remember, uh federal

658
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 1: unemployment stimulus packages where people were staying home in New

659
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,879
Speaker 1: York State. They're making about nine hundred dollars a day,

660
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: I believe, or maybe a little bit less than that.

661
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: It didn't end until September six, by the way, trying

662
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: to hire people when you were already making nine hundred

663
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 1: dollars for September first rollout for schools. That was another

664
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 1: very difficult task, right, you know, if you're already sitting

665
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: home making nine an hour, why are you going to

666
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 1: come in and drive a school bus at six am

667
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: for you know, the same pay. So with that being said,

668
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: when we spoke to the Governor's office, we explained to

669
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: them that it's very difficult to have people come in

670
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: the door when we have all of our people who

671
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: are still sitting home on unemployment and the benefits haven't exhausted,

672
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,479
Speaker 1: but we know that there's a lot more CDL people.

673
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: So one of the biggest things that she did is

674
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: she released a survey with about three thousand responses of

675
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: CDL workers that were on the sidelines, will call it

676
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: on unemployment to come back to work. And she said, hey,

677
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: look at your local school buses. They're offering sign on bonuses,

678
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,720
Speaker 1: they have new pay packages. Are you interested in driving

679
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: for a district or for a private contractor? And the

680
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: responses were overwhelming. There was three thousand responses, and they

681
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 1: released the data to all of us and we were

682
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 1: able to call these people and get them pluck them

683
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 1: off the list to come work for us. That was

684
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: extremely extremely helpful. The other thing that was extremely helpful.

685
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: Has we've spoken about quite a bit is the time

686
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,280
Speaker 1: it takes to become a driver. It takes anywhere between

687
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: sixteen and twenty two business days to become a driver.

688
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: Now that's very, very difficult, and I should say it

689
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: could take even longer than that. If you need a

690
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,439
Speaker 1: job immediately, the last thing that you want to do

691
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: is wait three, four or five weeks to get put

692
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: on the road unpaid. So that's always been a problem

693
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: with our industry. And the Governor's office recognized that and

694
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: they said, hey, that's that's not right, that's that's really tough.

695
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: So what they did is they suspended the two weeks

696
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: between the written tests and the road test. That if

697
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: you were ready, if you passed all of your written

698
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: permit tests and you were ready for a road test,

699
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: you could schedule that immediately and you could get on

700
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: the road. Now, another thing like any other industry, And

701
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: as you alluded to at the beginning of this podcast,

702
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: you know, government was short staff during the pandemic also,

703
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: so d m V had less people working the road tests.

704
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 1: So so times you can have all of your licenses

705
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 1: in place, your drug testing, fingerprinting, everything done and then

706
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: it would still take four weeks to schedule yourself a

707
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: road test. Now, when they heard that, they said, oh

708
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: my god, that's really terrible because not only did you

709
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: take the three weeks to get all of your things

710
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: done to become a driver, but now you have to

711
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: wait on the government four weeks to take your road

712
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: test to become licensed. So she put on more DMV

713
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 1: inspectors and and and test instructors, and that really helped

714
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: us as well. So after that happened, we certainly saw

715
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: a good number of people come into this industry and

716
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: we were very very thankful that we had an ear

717
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: because the previous administration, I'm not going to get political, Uh,

718
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: the previous administration completely tuned us out. So this kind

719
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: of leads into a slightly philosophical question that I want

720
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: to ask you. But you know, if if we all

721
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: decide that school bus drivers are are a value part

722
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: of the labor force, essential workers, what are the chances

723
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: that governments actually start paying them more or you know,

724
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 1: start paying more for contracts and then the contractors can

725
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: actually pay school bus drivers more. Like is that the

726
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: natural solution to this is just to pay them more?

727
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: And if so, why isn't that happening, or what are

728
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 1: the obstacles to that happening. I think that's a loaded question. Sorry,

729
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: it's okay, No, it's great. I understand you're saying. I

730
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: think it's difficult. I think get in good faith. Yeah,

731
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 1: I know, I know that. I'll say this though. The

732
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: public companies, the public school districts, excuse me, do quite

733
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: often pay more than the private contractors to a certain extent,

734
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 1: and they're still having an extremely difficult job of hiring people.

735
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: So I don't know if money is just the answer.

736
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,919
Speaker 1: And I think it's because of the type of job

737
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 1: it is. And I think that the workforce right now

738
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: because there are other jobs out there that and you

739
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: you know, you said that else the other thing at

740
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: the beginning. I think that the other jobs out there

741
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: are more enticing to the new workforce. I don't think

742
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: people want to wake up at five o'clock in the

743
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,439
Speaker 1: morning and hop on a school bus and transport unvaccinated

744
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: children right now. I think that that looks like a

745
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: difficult job for them when they can work for Amazon

746
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: or work for other delivery companies and they can wake

747
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: up at eight o'clock, nine o'clock. Um. Obviously, there's some

748
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: other things with the federal with the New York state

749
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: marijuana legislation in that pass that we lost some of

750
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,760
Speaker 1: our people as well. You know, not to speak on Amazon,

751
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: but Amazon doesn't you know, in delivery services, they don't

752
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: drug test. Obviously, school buses, of course we're going to

753
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 1: drug test. It's we're governed by the Federal Motor Clearing

754
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: Safety Administration and it's not federally regulated, so they have

755
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: to make sure that they're still not smoking marijuana. So

756
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: I think you lost people there as well. The younger

757
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: work for is going to tail off to more jobs

758
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: that do not drug test to a certain extent. So

759
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,439
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not sure it's just pay. Obviously, pay

760
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: needs needs to needs to be looked at. And let

761
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: me just one more question on pay though, and all

762
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 1: your other points make a lot of sense. You know,

763
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: you know, a company like Amazon, though, like they could

764
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: announce tomorrow that every one of their um, every one

765
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 1: of their warehouse and logistics workers get to two dollars

766
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: more proper. I don't know if they would, but obviously

767
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: they could do that unilaterally. To what extent are your

768
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,919
Speaker 1: revenues fixed? And how long did the contracts last with

769
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: the municipalities, and what kind of flexibility is there in

770
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: terms of repricing those contracts from your perspective, as the

771
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: labor market reprices. So the contracts are extremely fixed. But

772
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: for the most part, you by New York State education law,

773
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: a contract can go no longer than five years. So

774
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: five year extension is the is the maximum. And what

775
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: would happen if you wanted to give our industry, if

776
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: you wanted to give a two dollar raise, you have

777
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: to go what we call quote unquote go out to bid.

778
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: So what go out to bid means is you, you know,

779
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,959
Speaker 1: you tell the municipality the contract numbers no longer work.

780
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: We would like to go out to bid and try

781
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: and get our numbers. And then you you, you go out,

782
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: you put pen to paper and you put in a

783
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 1: new number. Now, obviously you know the contract. The school

784
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,280
Speaker 1: districts look at all the bids that come in. They

785
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: once again have to find the safest, most reliable, fiscally

786
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: responsible bus company. But but you know that's the competition.

787
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 1: So a lot of times, I certainly do think you

788
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 1: see more activity in the bid space now more than ever.

789
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 1: So sure, and I think that that's where this industry

790
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: is going. Is that you'll continue to see and it's

791
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: healthy competition. But there is still very extremely uh, there

792
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 1: is still huge barriers to entry for any new existing

793
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: bus company to come in. But that's what's going to

794
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: have to happen. Contractors are going to have to bid

795
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: out their work and get their numbers up and then

796
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: enforced that of course, must go back down to giving

797
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: increases to labor. One other thing I'll say, by the way,

798
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: and some of the other contractors will get mad at

799
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 1: me for saying this, but I already do it. So

800
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,919
Speaker 1: I'll say here all the things you're not supposed to say.

801
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: It has to be an eight hour job. It can't

802
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: be five hours, you can't be six hours. The retiree

803
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,919
Speaker 1: pipeline is no longer there. You have if you're only

804
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: working ten months out of the twelve months, you have

805
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: to give them the full eight hour job so that

806
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,399
Speaker 1: people can see it as a forty hour work week

807
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: and a full time job. If you when you start

808
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:39,919
Speaker 1: to get to those levels, I think you'll see even

809
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: more people come into this industry. It's kind of interesting

810
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: because we're told over and over again by other types

811
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 1: of employers that the younger workforce is looking for flexibility,

812
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: and you know, they want to be able to work

813
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: from home or they want to be able to dictate

814
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,760
Speaker 1: their own working hours. But you're sort of advocating going

815
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: in the office directions. Well, unfortunately for us, we don't

816
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: have that flexibility. Right school buses operate at six in

817
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,839
Speaker 1: the morning and two in the afternoon, So whoever wants

818
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: to come into the industry, it's the school bell times

819
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 1: aren't going to change. So let me just ask you

820
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: one last question before we go. So right now, you know,

821
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: one of the things that strikes me about school buses

822
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 1: and schools in general, and I mentioned this in the intros,

823
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: it's one of the most clear ways that parents are

824
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: people interact with their government, especially if their kids are

825
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: in public school. Um, but it's a clear it's a

826
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: service that people expect. What is the quality of service

827
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 1: right now? Have there are the fewer routes being run?

828
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,479
Speaker 1: Have you to consolidate routes? Do parents need to take

829
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: their kids further from their front door to find a

830
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: bus route? Like? What is the current level of adjustment

831
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: that's been required because of the difficulty and high Sure,

832
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 1: So the contractors and municipalities and school districts have really

833
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: worked together well. But there is still some pain points

834
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: that are being filled. Uh. There are certainly less routes

835
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 1: being run what will we'll call them, uh, multiple routes

836
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 1: being ran on the same bus. You know that some kids,

837
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 1: some kids are are not taking the bus any longer.

838
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: So you have that flexibility. But say you have a

839
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: middle school on a high school. One of the bell

840
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: times is eight o'clock, the other one is eight thirty.

841
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: You'll put both of those groups of kids on the

842
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: same bus and you'll do that route back to back.

843
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 1: So that consolidation of route has been helpful. Now the

844
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: only reason you're able to do that is because it's

845
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 1: not at full capacity. But some of the times the

846
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 1: routes still do run late. Um. You do not have

847
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 1: that flexibility on special education routes. Special education routes they

848
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: go all over and you can't double up what I'll

849
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 1: called double putting two routes on one. So you know,

850
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: other things are Obviously home to school is the most

851
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: important thing. The school bus starts the education process. So

852
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: we've worked with the athletics departments and the athletic conferences

853
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 1: in the state to explain. You know, hey, we have

854
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 1: to make sure that we do our routes, get the

855
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: kids back home from school, and then we'll do the athletics.

856
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 1: So whereas athletics used to start at three o'clock three thirty,

857
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: they're starting at four o'clock now, and that's been a

858
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: big help because, um, you know, it's one of the

859
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,439
Speaker 1: things that people understand, understand, it's one of the few

860
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: things that even the parents understand. You know, it's more important.

861
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: It's more important to get the kids home from school

862
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: right now than to get the kids to to practice, which,

863
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: by the way, I play I too, season athlete. I

864
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 1: completely understand. It stinks. It's a very unfortunate situation right now,

865
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: but that's the type of creativity we need to get

866
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: everybody to and from school right now. Well, Corey, that

867
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: was fantastic. I learned a lot from that. Coremere ahead

868
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: of the Logan Bus Company. Thank you so much for

869
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: coming on odd Locks. Thank you both very much. This

870
00:46:45,800 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: was great. Yeah, it's so good. Thank you, Tracy. I

871
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 1: really like that episode. And you know, I like all

872
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 1: of our episodes where we go like deep into something.

873
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,720
Speaker 1: But now I kind of want to do more things

874
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 1: related to public sector provisioning because it's like it's a

875
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: whole different world, or thinking about business reality is and

876
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: things like how ur fps are done and r f

877
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 1: b s and all that stuff and listening to Corey

878
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: explaining all is U super educational. Yeah, And I mean

879
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 1: I think it fits in with the broader theme of

880
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: Outlots over the past year or so, which has been

881
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: this idea that you know, we're talking supply chains, We're

882
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: talking all these invisible processes that you don't normally think

883
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 1: about and suddenly in one you actually have to think

884
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:47,399
Speaker 1: about them. And that you know, includes things like where

885
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 1: do school bus drivers come from? And where do we

886
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: get more of them when an entire generation of older

887
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: driver decides that it's not really worth the time or

888
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 1: the risk anymore. The other thing, and you know, thinking

889
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: about future Odd Lots episodes is like the Amazon effect

890
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 1: on the labor market overall, because I really think like

891
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: that's its own fascinating story essentially, Like you can make

892
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: the argument like Jeff Bezos, but did he returned? He's

893
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: not the CEO. Whoever the CEO of Amazon is at

894
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: any given moment, is like our de facto minimum wage

895
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: center right now in America because there's so many warehouses

896
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: all over the country. They have such a large footprint,

897
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: and as soon as they set up shop in an area,

898
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 1: as Corey said, like for a lot of his employees,

899
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: it may just make more sense to work at Amazon.

900
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: And when you know, I didn't think about it. You know,

901
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 1: when you think about the conditions of last September, especially

902
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 1: before the vaccine, You're on a bus getting up on

903
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 1: you know, bus full of unvaccinated children, your school bus drivers, uh,

904
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 1: typically on the older end. And suddenly the just competition

905
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,280
Speaker 1: from other areas. You can see why even pay us side,

906
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: you could see why other other types of job has

907
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: become more appealing. And then you have this veheman Amazon

908
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 1: that just growing and growing and growing. Yeah, and I

909
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 1: mean minimum wage that is a great way to put it.

910
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 1: And you kind of wonder what the response from the

911
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 1: government is going to be, right because you think of Amazon,

912
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: and normally people think about it in the context of

913
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: taking potential workers away from private businesses or crowding out

914
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: some sort of private business, and you don't necessarily think

915
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 1: about it crowding out public services. But in this particular case,

916
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 1: that's exactly what what it's been doing. Yeah, no, totally.

917
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: And you know, I hadn't thought like his point about

918
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 1: hybrid two days on, three days off, and how maybe

919
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 1: that might have worked for the teachers, but it was

920
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: very unrealistic for school bus drivers like slash all their routes,

921
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: and there very so many interesting things like yeah, I

922
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: guess it just goes back to so many interesting things

923
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: I had never thought about. I mean, part of me

924
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,800
Speaker 1: also just continues to be stunned by like the lack

925
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 1: of a social safety net or job security in the States,

926
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 1: and the fact that school bus drivers seem to be

927
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 1: at will employees, and even though they might have expected

928
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: to drive school buses every day for a school year,

929
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: the pandemic happens and suddenly it's like, oh no, we

930
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 1: don't need you anymore, so goodbye, you're out of work.

931
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: That's kind of stunning and unfortunately different to the way

932
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: some other countries would do this. Yeah. Pretty uh, pretty

933
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 1: fascinating lens into how things actually work. All right, should

934
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: we leave it there? Let's leave it there. This has

935
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: been another episode of the All Thoughts podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway.

936
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: You can follow me on Twitter at Tracy Alloway. And

937
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: I'm Joe Wisenthal. You can follow me on Twitter at

938
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: The Stalwart. Follow our producer Laura Carlson. She's at Laura M. Carlson.

939
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 1: Follow the Bloomberg head of podcast Francesco Leavi at Francesca Today,

940
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 1: and check out all of our podcasts at Bloomberg under

941
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: the handle at podcasts. Thanks for listening to