Speaker 1: Loud and Quiet Presents Midnight Chats.
Speaker 2: Evening listeners, Greg, here, this is Midnight Chats. Thanks for
Speaker 2: joining us for another artist in conversation and tuning in.
Speaker 2: Do you tune into a podcast?
Speaker 3: Maybe not, but.
Speaker 2: Wherever you are and wherever you're listening to this, cheers
Speaker 2: for joining us. Before we get stuck into this week's
Speaker 2: Midnight Chats. Can I just say what a total privilege
Speaker 2: it was to have Viv Albertine speaking to Stuart on
Speaker 2: last week's episode. She's incredible and what a powerful listen.
Speaker 2: Do seek that out if you haven't already, So thank you, Viv.
Speaker 2: When we started this we hoped but never imagined we'd
Speaker 2: probably get to a point where we'd have such icons
Speaker 2: to come and talk to us.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: We always try and put a range of voices and
Speaker 2: experiences on the podcast. That's what keeps it interesting for
Speaker 2: us and hopefully for you too. In that spirit, this
Speaker 2: is something totally different from last week. My guest tonight
Speaker 2: is Cogi Radical, the East London based British Ghanaian rapper,
Speaker 2: visual artist, poet, head of an arts collective, fashion designer,
Speaker 2: basically a master of many trades. He is a connected guy,
Speaker 2: or rather he's made himself a connected guy over the
Speaker 2: last five years or so that he's been sharing his creations.
Speaker 3: It was a while.
Speaker 2: Back twenty fourteen when he released his debut project, Dear
Speaker 2: Daisy Opium. Just a year later, it was his EP
Speaker 2: twenty three Winters that introduced him to more people. Since then,
Speaker 2: there's been a steady stream of releases from Koji. The
Speaker 2: thirteen track release in God's Body in twenty seventeen was magnificent,
Speaker 2: and the single Water that he did with Swindle and
Speaker 2: Mahalia last year. It's also just dropped the video for
Speaker 2: twenty five, which is the track that we talk about
Speaker 2: in this and came out at the start of the
Speaker 2: year and it's very good, So do have a look
Speaker 2: at that. Other artists have noticed his talents as well,
Speaker 2: and we'd beer all night if I listed off the
Speaker 2: people that Cogi has collaborated with. Leave that for the
Speaker 2: conversation instead. But that's basically a testament to how respected
Speaker 2: and well regarded he is. As I speak to you now,
Speaker 2: it's the end of March and this chat was recorded
Speaker 2: in the middle of February, a couple of weeks before
Speaker 2: the oscars. I mentioned that because he'd recently met and
Speaker 2: interviewed Spike Lee, and Spike's movie Black Clansman was up
Speaker 2: for Best Picture. Cogi came into our office in East London.
Speaker 2: He arrived on time, but then again there was no
Speaker 2: excuse for him not too because he literally lives less
Speaker 2: than a mile away, about five stops on the bus road.
Speaker 2: It was dark, raining buckets outside, but Cogi arrived looking
Speaker 2: very stylish, wearing sunglasses, beanie cool yellow jacket, and I
Speaker 2: thoroughly enjoyed meeting him. We laughed a lot. A quick mention,
Speaker 2: if you are new to Midnight Chats, come on in.
Speaker 2: We are halfway through series seven, now five more of
Speaker 2: these to come in the run some brilliant guests. Subscribe
Speaker 2: if you don't already, so you get every new episode
Speaker 2: that we put out on Thursday at midnight, and like
Speaker 2: and rate and comment hopefully nice things wherever you're listening
Speaker 2: to this enough from me, Let's get onto Cogi, our
Speaker 2: guest on episode sixty eight of Midnight Chats and Vice.
Speaker 2: If you're listening, We're ready when you are. That will
Speaker 2: make sense in a minute. Coagy, welcome to our podcast
Speaker 2: Midnight Chats. Thank you for having me been excited about
Speaker 2: having your Actually, oh yeah, because yeah, yeah. I mean
Speaker 2: obviously I've been watching some of your interviews and you've
Speaker 2: always like you seem like you kind of enjoy like,
Speaker 2: you know, having a platform and kind of like and
Speaker 2: doing this kind of thing and getting out there and
Speaker 2: speaking to different people and different artists and things like
Speaker 2: that to be something you're kind of relish.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like it's it's part of the process.
Speaker 5: I think you spend so much time in sula and
Speaker 5: in your own head and then your own thoughts and
Speaker 5: in rooms listening to things on loop that once they're interpreted,
Speaker 5: they're kind of just interpreted, so and you get a
Speaker 5: chance to i don't know, talk about things or put
Speaker 5: more context to things. It helps shape things in the
Speaker 5: mind of the listener, which I enjoy.
Speaker 2: The So for your sat on there, we've recorded quite
Speaker 2: a lot of these podcasts in this room, and we've
Speaker 2: had people from all over the world, really North America,
Speaker 2: South America, Asia, even as far as Australia. We had
Speaker 2: Courtney Barnett on the podcast still while ago literally outside
Speaker 2: of the world. You are definitely the most local person
Speaker 2: that we've ever had on Midnight Chats because you're.
Speaker 3: From just down the road from Hoxton.
Speaker 2: Cool, which if people are listening to this and they
Speaker 2: don't know too much about, you know, where, we're doing
Speaker 2: this just to paint the picture. We're recording this in
Speaker 2: the Loud and Quiet offices in Hackney. Hoxton is less
Speaker 2: than a mile away.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you could probably first you could.
Speaker 2: You could probably see that your window, if it wasn't
Speaker 2: if the if the weather wasn't so miserable, you could
Speaker 2: have walked here in about.
Speaker 4: Yeah I didn't, but I could have.
Speaker 5: I'm just contemplating with our walk home, but I probably won't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it gets soaked.
Speaker 2: Tell me a little bit about growing up in Hoxton.
Speaker 2: You know, it's one of those places that it might
Speaker 2: be a familiar name to some people, some of our listeners,
Speaker 2: but it still always sounds like a bit of a
Speaker 2: curious place to maybe grow up in because people possibly
Speaker 2: immediately associated with nightlife and kind of trendy bars or
Speaker 2: coffee shops or whatever. So what was the reality like
Speaker 2: of growing up in Hogston in East London?
Speaker 5: It was different. It definitely weren't good like. I don't
Speaker 5: like to paint a picture of it being some kind
Speaker 5: of like coll hole. It wasn't necessarily that. But the
Speaker 5: Hocks then everybody knows now definitely wasn't what it was then.
Speaker 5: I think, speaking more positively, though, there was definitely much
Speaker 5: more of a sense of community and it felt like
Speaker 5: a majority of the places around there were very kind
Speaker 5: of like homegrown businesses and eventually you start to see
Speaker 5: that change and kind of fade out. But I feel
Speaker 5: like what Hocksten is kind of hasn't changed in one sense.
Speaker 5: It just they put a look of paint on it.
Speaker 5: It was probably part of the reason why my outlook
Speaker 5: on life is so eclectic, because you see everything, do
Speaker 5: you know what I mean? You see every think from
Speaker 5: from like deep poverty to like flamboyant ego sharing the
Speaker 5: same paper, And yeah, I think it was just it
Speaker 5: was an interesting bontage point to have so young.
Speaker 2: Without getting too deep into the gentrification debate, it sounds
Speaker 2: like you feel like as money's moved in in certain
Speaker 2: parts of Hoxton, at least because it's not all the same,
Speaker 2: the soul hasn't necessarily moved out of the area at
Speaker 2: the same time, or it has to a certain extent
Speaker 2: or just changed.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, there's there's certain things that I would attribute
Speaker 5: to the soul. I think the market. I lived like
Speaker 5: very close to that hocks the market, and I remember
Speaker 5: as a kid that used to feel like the most
Speaker 5: like hustle and bustle environment and that just started to
Speaker 5: thin out a little bit as gentrification started to take
Speaker 5: place and again more like more buildings with purpose that
Speaker 5: meant things for the community, Like the cafes and stuff
Speaker 5: are great and it's cool or whatever, but like it's
Speaker 5: not even like they're hiring local youth. Me said, it's
Speaker 5: it's not beneficial to anybody from there. And really, I
Speaker 5: think that's where most areas should begin, do you know
Speaker 5: what I mean?
Speaker 4: And start? But I'm not the mayor yet.
Speaker 2: One day, one day, we had novelists on the podcast
Speaker 2: a while ago, and he was talking about his involvement
Speaker 2: in politics, and I think he was young mayor for
Speaker 2: his local constituency at one point, and that was interesting.
Speaker 2: He was talking about a similar point, how like he
Speaker 2: felt like he wanted to get involved on that front
Speaker 2: and he learned a lot from doing that. He kind
Speaker 2: of stepped away from doing that for a little bit,
Speaker 2: but it was interesting talking to him about a similar subject.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's necessary. I think people forget how
Speaker 5: much love the young have for London and for where
Speaker 5: they grew up and why actually when it was time
Speaker 5: to fight back, they were so passionate because where we're
Speaker 5: from shape us, shapes us.
Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean? Like it?
Speaker 5: I don't feel like I would be completely who I
Speaker 5: am if I didn't grow up in Hoxton.
Speaker 3: You're still based around there in the family.
Speaker 4: Yeah, my family lives in Hoxton.
Speaker 2: And again for people if you don't necessarily know the
Speaker 2: area too well, we're talking like pretty much central London,
Speaker 2: certainly like middle of London. Really you could get on
Speaker 2: a bus and be at Oxford Street in Yeah. Exactly
Speaker 2: what are you like now that you've been doing a
Speaker 2: lot of traveling with your music the last few years,
Speaker 2: when you leave the city and you're saying more rural
Speaker 2: areas or in smaller cities, are you hungry to get
Speaker 2: back to the energy of the city in the urban
Speaker 2: environment or are you as you get a little bit older,
Speaker 2: do you enjoy getting a little bit of time and
Speaker 2: space of being outside of that environment.
Speaker 4: I love the space. I love the time.
Speaker 3: Definitely, you're going to buy a farm money coaching, I.
Speaker 5: Couldn't be bothered problem. I can't be bothered. I'm just
Speaker 5: like the definition of the quiet life. But it's cool.
Speaker 5: I know that it's going to be very hard for
Speaker 5: me to find somewhere else in the world that I'd
Speaker 5: want to settle, just because I'm used to the hustle
Speaker 5: and bustle, and a part of not having it makes
Speaker 5: me nervous. Like if I'm in faces that are a
Speaker 5: bit too quiet, I just keep thinking someone's gonna murder me.
Speaker 5: No one will be around to help, do you know
Speaker 5: what I mean? Or just like the idea of being
Speaker 5: too distant from firmily or familiarity. But I love traveling,
Speaker 5: Like luckily it was weird, Like the traveling side of
Speaker 5: music came from a very weird point in my career,
Speaker 5: so like it forced me to open my eyes.
Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2: Just like it came in a strange time in the
Speaker 2: sense that that was part of it, you went.
Speaker 5: I think it's like I'm trying to I don't know
Speaker 5: if I'm talking in the context of like my life
Speaker 5: or like music and how I feel about this thing.
Speaker 5: But like because everyone every every time I say something,
Speaker 5: people got really or yeah, but I know how it
Speaker 5: feels on the inside.
Speaker 4: You get me.
Speaker 5: So when I started traveling with music, it was at
Speaker 5: a time where I felt like, even though I was
Speaker 5: being embraced, my music had kind of gone cold and
Speaker 5: I wasn't getting the love that I thought I would
Speaker 5: get in the UK. So like it, well, if it
Speaker 5: ain't happening here, it ain't really about to happen nowhere else.
Speaker 5: And then all of a sudden, like literally out of nowhere,
Speaker 5: we just started getting booking requests from like the most
Speaker 5: random parts of the world, and we was like, well,
Speaker 5: let's go. Fuck it went to that Bulgaria, New Zealand, Melbourne, Sydney, Moscow, Johannesburg,
Speaker 5: where has to be, Copenhagen, like just wherever, like in Brazil.
Speaker 5: We did like four shows in Brazil, majority of them
Speaker 5: sold out. I remember the last one was the Johannesburg
Speaker 5: one and that was like six hundred people sold out,
Speaker 5: first time in the country, and it was it was
Speaker 5: crazy to me to know that, like again, when you
Speaker 5: drop a stone in the river, like you're going to
Speaker 5: see a local ripple, you feel me, you don't know
Speaker 5: how far that wave travels. And it was an opportunity
Speaker 5: to see how far it travel to it kind of
Speaker 5: reinvigorated me. So by the time I went through that experience,
Speaker 5: I think I had finished in God's body and it
Speaker 5: was out and I knew there was like some like
Speaker 5: recalibrations I had to make to make sure everything made sense.
Speaker 5: But now I find myself traveling in order to kind
Speaker 5: of spark that same inspiration that I probably would have
Speaker 5: got just walking around the ends.
Speaker 4: Do you know what?
Speaker 2: Did you find yourself almost having to make a bit
Speaker 2: of a leap of faith. So somebody books you for
Speaker 2: a show in Bulgaria and you're like, I just need
Speaker 2: to Google map. We're about to fly into Yeah, and
Speaker 2: did it, you know, explode your expectations. You turn up
Speaker 2: and you're like, this is a venue full of just
Speaker 2: people that are pumped.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: That show in particular was crazy because the guy that
Speaker 5: booked me was a personal fan.
Speaker 3: Like that why show?
Speaker 4: In many respects essentially.
Speaker 5: He was like, I've got money, I love music in particular,
Speaker 5: I love your music, and I wanted to put on
Speaker 5: a show for Bulgaria, So I'm paying for everything. Bring
Speaker 5: the whole band, bring everybody, bring the tour manager, bring everything.
Speaker 5: And we're just going to do this show and Sofia
Speaker 5: as soon as we landed, he came and got us
Speaker 5: and they're like he had like a million questions about
Speaker 5: a million different songs, like different moments, like specific moments,
Speaker 5: and I was like, you are really a fan. And
Speaker 5: it helped me appreciate the whole thing a lot more.
Speaker 5: And I've been excited to go back to Bulgaria ever since.
Speaker 4: It's one of them like, oh yeah, like the Bulgaria
Speaker 4: is gonna be lit when I go back.
Speaker 3: It's like, make sure.
Speaker 5: Everyone's like Bulgaria, Go ya Bulgaria. People don't even know
Speaker 5: there's Bulgarian grime.
Speaker 3: Really tell me about Bulgarian grime.
Speaker 5: Well before So the open and opening act was this
Speaker 5: Bulgarian rapper and we went in to check him out
Speaker 5: and it was like yo, like he's really spitting. And
Speaker 5: then Zulu was with me up and something. I think
Speaker 5: something happened in he set and he invited the guy
Speaker 5: back on and the guy just started spitting too. Grime
Speaker 5: temposts like on the spot, there's Russian grime as well,
Speaker 5: there's Russian grime, there's Brazilian grime.
Speaker 2: We're basically what we're doing here is brainstorming like a
Speaker 2: new Vice documentary.
Speaker 5: I know, yeah, yeah, trust me, they should have been
Speaker 5: done that. But like grime's heavy. The culture of grime
Speaker 5: is heavy in Brazil.
Speaker 4: They love that.
Speaker 5: They love that shit, and like it's weird because like
Speaker 5: I didn't come up making grime, but I grew up
Speaker 5: in London and it grime is it within you. It's like,
Speaker 5: if you grow up in the heart of Bushwick, Brooklyn,
Speaker 5: you are going to have hip hop in your heart.
Speaker 5: You're going to have Biggie in your heart. If you
Speaker 5: grew up in the middle of East London, you were
Speaker 5: going to have grime in your heart. You're going to
Speaker 5: have sc beat in your heart. You're going to have
Speaker 5: that He's gonna puls through you. So like as much
Speaker 5: as I didn't necessarily make grim music, as soon as
Speaker 5: I landed in these countries and understood they understood our culture,
Speaker 5: it was way easier to, I guess, embed myself in
Speaker 5: what was going on. So I remember even in Brazil,
Speaker 5: we had done the festival that we kind of got
Speaker 5: booked for and it was like it's quiet, like it
Speaker 5: weren't lit, and the promoter that we was with was
Speaker 5: just like you guys want to do the parties, don't you.
Speaker 5: We was like, yeah, you know what I mean, And
Speaker 5: he's more or less like driven us out to like
Speaker 5: quite close to the favelas, and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 5: we're just going to do a set tonight here, and
Speaker 5: we was like what I remember? It was me, my DJ,
Speaker 5: selector Suave and Pote, who's a producer and DJ works
Speaker 5: closely with Benji b. And then we took a picture
Speaker 5: outside like and send it to my tour manager, like
Speaker 5: we're here tonight, we're going off g Yeah, we're going
Speaker 5: off the grid, like if you don't hear from me,
Speaker 5: and for hours basically cool. We've walked in and it's
Speaker 5: just like it's a movie, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 5: It's literally a movie. And we was like walking around
Speaker 5: trying to take it and everybody speaking pure Portuguese. It's
Speaker 5: not like that every other person can speak English. Were like,
Speaker 5: and then we'll walk like they're playing like Brazilian funk
Speaker 5: but also like a lot of like trap, and then
Speaker 5: all of a sudden we just hear I can't remember
Speaker 5: what grime tune it was. I think I might've been
Speaker 5: pasing Q's or something like that. And we've all just
Speaker 5: looked at each other and went, oh, it's lip you
Speaker 5: know what I mean, Oh, it's lit like we're good.
Speaker 5: Gone in there, wrecked it like turned it into like
Speaker 5: some like like they split the middle open because there
Speaker 5: was no stage, so split the middle open, and.
Speaker 4: It was like people on me, You're in the middle.
Speaker 4: I was in the middle and just.
Speaker 5: Barring off and it's like people just in my face
Speaker 5: just like love it like going off. And then news
Speaker 5: kind of traveled throughout Brazil and we got booked for
Speaker 5: some other ones. We ended up flying to Rio and
Speaker 5: did a party there called I Hate Mondays Insane. I
Speaker 5: saw a kid get chucked across the room like mosh
Speaker 5: pit style, just lifted it and like catapulted when I
Speaker 5: think after Winter dropped or something like that. And just
Speaker 5: seeing those kind of reactions to my music made me
Speaker 5: understanding a completely different light, because I think London caught
Speaker 5: me as a poet. I mean they was introduced to
Speaker 5: me as a poet. When they hear my name, the
Speaker 5: first thing that probably comes to mind is poet. So
Speaker 5: the way they approach my shows is very subdued in
Speaker 5: terms of the energy that I've required to feed off
Speaker 5: in order to create a better show. But I feel
Speaker 5: like all of that changed when we did the Coco
Speaker 5: Show in November.
Speaker 3: I've seen footage from that and it did go off.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was nuice.
Speaker 2: So where I mean that sounds really exciting, like going
Speaker 2: going around the world, Like a lot of the time,
Speaker 2: artists will just turn up, they'll play their show, they'll
Speaker 2: go into their dressing room, they get on whatever mode
Speaker 2: of transport they're taking to go to the next place.
Speaker 2: It sounds like you've managed to have an experienced last
Speaker 2: for years, where like you say, you've managed to discover
Speaker 2: Bulgarian grime, Russian grimes, and Brazilian grime like these scenes.
Speaker 2: Do you feel the impulse to do anything with that,
Speaker 2: Like I mean a joke about the kind of series,
Speaker 2: but like you've made tour documentaries before, would you consider
Speaker 2: maybe doing developing that idea in some way?
Speaker 5: I feel like more time, I just wait for people
Speaker 5: to understand that I'm a genius and then approach me
Speaker 5: with the like sufficient deal to incorporate said genius. And
Speaker 5: I'm right there. I work hard, I show up on time,
Speaker 5: there's no question mark. I think it's just more so
Speaker 5: just going like let's just cut the fat. Like I know,
Speaker 5: we measure everything on this metric and that metric, and no,
Speaker 5: we have a person that actually, for whatever reason, can
Speaker 5: just float through any walk of life and and be
Speaker 5: embraced in a way that makes me now a part
Speaker 5: of that experience for however long I'm there.
Speaker 4: This should be a thing. But I don't know.
Speaker 5: You might have the genius gene too, because you saw
Speaker 5: it was an idea, but we're just still waiting, still
Speaker 5: waiting for them.
Speaker 2: We need to put these genius genes together and find
Speaker 2: somebody with essentially some belief in some cash.
Speaker 5: Belief in a check, and we can we can move,
Speaker 5: we can talk. I'm like hoping to do more stuff
Speaker 5: with like way more platforms, hopefully maybe some more stuff
Speaker 5: with Vice.
Speaker 4: We did that really quick. We did it. I interviewed
Speaker 4: Spike Lee.
Speaker 2: I was going to ask about that later. I mean,
Speaker 2: we might as well talk about it now. What did
Speaker 2: you take away from that experience of meeting Spike Lee?
Speaker 2: And I mean you were I don't know how much
Speaker 2: interviewing you've done before. This is obviously switching places, so
Speaker 2: to speak, to what you're normally used to, but did
Speaker 2: feel very natural like, you did a good job with it.
Speaker 2: What was it like spending that hour within half an
Speaker 2: hour whatever it was in the end, do you.
Speaker 4: Know what it is?
Speaker 5: I've always hated interviews but loved conversations, So with that,
Speaker 5: when I was in an interview process, majority of the
Speaker 5: time it ended up turning into a conversation, just because
Speaker 5: that's just the way I try to steer things, so
Speaker 5: at least I'm not on the edge the whole time.
Speaker 5: And I had done somebody had asked me to be
Speaker 5: involved in this Sky Atlantic series that was going on
Speaker 5: for a series called Gorilla, and we did like a
Speaker 5: mini documentary series with SBTV on that one, and then
Speaker 5: I did a collaborative song with Rebecca Ferguson. At the
Speaker 5: end of it was kind of like a very like
Speaker 5: interesting process.
Speaker 4: But yeah, like.
Speaker 5: I did one of the last interviews with Dark as Hell,
Speaker 5: Like we interviewed everybody from the cast through the pinto
Speaker 5: like everyone.
Speaker 4: It was lit.
Speaker 5: I think maybe that kind of showed people that he's
Speaker 5: good at the whole like interview things. Then how did
Speaker 5: that come about? Jenna, my amazing publicist, said we should
Speaker 5: go into a meeting advice, and I went and sat down.
Speaker 4: With Alex and he sound yeah, sound load.
Speaker 3: And in a couple of weeks day he says Spikes.
Speaker 4: Like, do you want to interview Spike Lee.
Speaker 5: I said, yes, We've gone cinema, watched the film and
Speaker 5: Alex liked it. Come back. So I'm sitting in the
Speaker 5: room now waiting for him. Like this is like a
Speaker 5: few days later, so I've had a couple of days
Speaker 5: to digest it.
Speaker 4: Sitting in the room and.
Speaker 5: I have one long Island dice tea than another one
Speaker 5: immediately afterwards.
Speaker 4: And I was fine after that, do you know what
Speaker 4: I mean?
Speaker 5: I was really to go and he's come in and
Speaker 5: he's only really meant to do about twenty thirty minutes
Speaker 5: in each room, but he did about forty five minutes
Speaker 5: with me just talking, and you know, for the most part,
Speaker 5: because again it was an interview process, so like one
Speaker 5: like I've got a lot of time to have like
Speaker 5: a deep personal moment. But meeting certain people you kind
Speaker 5: of take away certain things from their area and their presence,
Speaker 5: and being around him kind of always taught me that
Speaker 5: it doesn't matter how far you've gone, do you know
Speaker 5: what I mean, Like what you've contributed to the scale
Speaker 5: of or how much people value it. There's always more
Speaker 5: to do, do you know what I mean? There's always
Speaker 5: more to get done, and that humility and that kind
Speaker 5: of like head down, like, here's another product, here's another conversation,
Speaker 5: here's another contribution to what I feel. It's important while
Speaker 5: I'm alive. I think, Yeah, I just try and take
Speaker 5: those kind of energies and put them into what I'm
Speaker 5: trying to do.
Speaker 2: Two quick questions off the back of that, By the
Speaker 2: time people hear this, Black Clansman might have won an
Speaker 2: Oscar Best Picture. Would you like to see that?
Speaker 4: That'd be good. Yeah, that'd be good.
Speaker 5: I've got a sick little jiff meme of me and
Speaker 5: Spike laughing.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So if it wins, then I'm just going to drop
Speaker 5: that and be like congrat Spike in.
Speaker 3: A timely moment, and just the internet turn up to
Speaker 3: that cogrets.
Speaker 4: Yeah, my old power knows me.
Speaker 2: We're talking a minute about all the different things that
Speaker 2: you do. You're a bit of a polymath, you kind
Speaker 2: of in terms of your art and what you create.
Speaker 2: If you've always been quite fearless about basically trying something new,
Speaker 2: because something like often fear does kind of hold people back,
Speaker 2: and they sort of think not everybody would basically have
Speaker 2: got in that car and driven to the almost favelas
Speaker 2: and turned up at a show and just been like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm going to go with this and this might be
Speaker 2: an amazing experience. Some people would have been like absolutely not,
Speaker 2: no way. So if you if you always live without fear,
Speaker 2: was there a moment where you're like, I need to
Speaker 2: kind of let go and basically I'll give anything, most
Speaker 2: things to go at least.
Speaker 4: What have you got to lose.
Speaker 5: We're here until we're not here, and I've seen a
Speaker 5: lot of people die, So for me, the the process
Speaker 5: of living is literally to experience. And if you have
Speaker 5: an idea, you were a vessel for their idea, so
Speaker 5: in a way you kind of have to give life
Speaker 5: to it. And that was just my process for being
Speaker 5: on the Earth's just giving life to your ideas and
Speaker 5: seeing what happens with them. I didn't know. I knew
Speaker 5: I wasn't going to be regular, but I just couldn't
Speaker 5: be bothered. I kept getting fired from everything.
Speaker 3: What the jobs that you started doing.
Speaker 4: I got fired from every job I worked, per se,
Speaker 4: maybe like.
Speaker 3: One exact because you just you knew it was in
Speaker 3: your passion, and.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I thought I was a good employee.
Speaker 5: I thought I had some reputable skills for I was
Speaker 5: all right to have around, clearly not like got fired.
Speaker 5: I don't know what happened, but I always knew that
Speaker 5: I'm not the guy that's taken more hours. Don't matter
Speaker 5: how broke I am.
Speaker 4: Can you cover this?
Speaker 5: No, can't cover it. Can't cover it. Can't cover it
Speaker 5: because my time is my time, you feel me, and
Speaker 5: I If I keep thinking that it's only like my
Speaker 5: personal time is only worth the amount of hour that
Speaker 5: they suggest it is, then I'll never be able to
Speaker 5: kind of get out this phase of of accepting that
Speaker 5: and wanting to push past that. So my time was
Speaker 5: my whatever. I didn't like the days I head off,
Speaker 5: I did everything like you get me, like I'm trying
Speaker 5: to do everything.
Speaker 4: You just get lost. It's so easy to get lost.
Speaker 2: It raises an interesting question now, because presume you feel
Speaker 2: like you're in a fortunate position whereby you turn your
Speaker 2: passions into your career. Right, So your job is your
Speaker 2: passion being music, making videos, interviewing, spight ly illustrations, et cetera.
Speaker 2: All of the different elements of what you put together
Speaker 2: to create what it is your universe, what you do
Speaker 2: when it becomes your job and it's your passion at
Speaker 2: the same time, that brings up its own challenges, doesn't it.
Speaker 2: Because the thing that you just mentioned there is like
Speaker 2: when you're doing a regular job and it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: you're clocking in for eight hours a day, and you're
Speaker 2: kind of like, that's my job. In my brain, I
Speaker 2: can like siphon that off. That's over here, My passions
Speaker 2: are over here. When those two things come together, it
Speaker 2: becomes more difficult, presumably because you're like always on. So
Speaker 2: how do you do you have ways of managing that
Speaker 2: in Yeah.
Speaker 5: Nah, okay, I smoke a lot of weed pretty much
Speaker 5: like that. I laugh about that because like it was
Speaker 5: kind of there was a point where I was like, yeah,
Speaker 5: I'm done, not smoking no more.
Speaker 4: Finished.
Speaker 5: This was like maybe three years ago, and then the
Speaker 5: next day I think I started the project. Smoked every
Speaker 5: day because my brain never it never turned off. If
Speaker 5: I ever got a free moment, I had to think about.
Speaker 5: I was like I was independent for five years. I
Speaker 5: was the brain behind everything to get me. I was
Speaker 5: pushing everything, making everything stay afloat, so I had to
Speaker 5: worry about everything, everything from Texas to insurance, so silly,
Speaker 5: get me that everything. So it just it was long
Speaker 5: like now I don't have to worry about that. I
Speaker 5: think I probably made some of the sickest music I've
Speaker 5: ever made in my life, like in the last few months,
Speaker 5: just because I ain't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because parts of those things have taken care of
Speaker 2: and that's part of that. You don't have to concern
Speaker 2: yourself with that, some of those logistics.
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. I just it was like I find that,
Speaker 5: like I don't know. I was always just more Soto typed,
Speaker 5: like do what you got to do, handle what you've
Speaker 5: got to do. Just bomb and don't worry about no
Speaker 5: one else's opinion, you feel me. So I'm not the
Speaker 5: showy guy. I'm not the show off. Like all the
Speaker 5: things I like done in my life, I could easily be.
Speaker 5: I could glow every day. It's pointless me like, you.
Speaker 4: Only win with more work, so that you just got
Speaker 4: to keep going to work.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about music.
Speaker 2: Start by talking about twenty five, which was the track
Speaker 2: that you started twenty nineteen by releasing, and to my mind,
Speaker 2: at least, it felt like a bit of it felt
Speaker 2: like you taking stock, like kind of reflecting on the
Speaker 2: past twenty five years because you just turned twenty six
Speaker 2: and my right, yeah, so this was you kind of
Speaker 2: taking a moment to just sort of like reflect on
Speaker 2: on years ago, but also kind of what's happened in
Speaker 2: a particularly busy spell for you the last two or
Speaker 2: three years, Like we've already just been talking about. Is
Speaker 2: that Am I reading that right? Is that how you
Speaker 2: felt about that track? Tell me a little bit more
Speaker 2: about twenty.
Speaker 5: Five twenty five? Was that it was like, well, you've
Speaker 5: been here twenty five.
Speaker 3: Years, bro, you got your court century up.
Speaker 4: You know what I mean? Like, you're here, what does
Speaker 4: it feel like? For me?
Speaker 5: I always got what does it feel like? And then
Speaker 5: that dictates the production. So it was bright. It was
Speaker 5: a good feeling because again, like a lot of my
Speaker 5: friends didn't make it this far, you get me, and
Speaker 5: like you want a way to to celebrate that in
Speaker 5: a way that that honors their time on earth and
Speaker 5: what it's taught you moving forward. The overall tone of
Speaker 5: what I was actually rapping about outside of the music
Speaker 5: was really sad. So I like, our whole thing at
Speaker 5: the moment has just been like juxtaposing.
Speaker 4: The memories of me being in.
Speaker 5: Like depressive state with the optimism that I now want
Speaker 5: to have in life. I'm kind of messing that together
Speaker 5: with the music. So it's interesting. What's funny is that
Speaker 5: whenever I make songs like that, I think to myself,
Speaker 5: what's that? What's like the twenty fourteen crop. I'm gonna
Speaker 5: think about this one? A sold out? Why is it
Speaker 5: all like trappy? Why it's so bright?
Speaker 3: Ah?
Speaker 5: Fucking idiots like I love I love everybody. I remember
Speaker 5: I used to because I didn't get like, I didn't
Speaker 5: get fucking mountains of attention in my opinion anyway, But
Speaker 5: so I listened to everything. If I saw somebody did
Speaker 5: like a project review on YouTube, it don't matter if
Speaker 5: twenty five years I was view twenty six.
Speaker 4: I saw it early. You get me.
Speaker 5: And I remember when in God's Body dropped, it was
Speaker 5: just like some old stands. Let me not even call
Speaker 5: them that, that's rude, but like just old supporters that
Speaker 5: it was like, ah, we missed the experimental production of
Speaker 5: like like his earlier work goes, what.
Speaker 4: Are you talking about? Like?
Speaker 5: I made every beat like not even like I mean like,
Speaker 5: but we made every beat as we went along. There
Speaker 5: was no like today we're moving into this world.
Speaker 4: We just made music.
Speaker 5: Clearly, you just like one type of music and not
Speaker 5: the other. So if you just like that stuff, then
Speaker 5: I've got music. There's music there. Listen to that stuff
Speaker 5: bare times. Those songs don't have a million plays. If
Speaker 5: you really liked it that much, you would listen to
Speaker 5: it a million times.
Speaker 2: How are you feeling getting into your twenty sixth year then,
Speaker 2: do you? I mean you celebrate your birthday at the
Speaker 2: start of the year day, so just into January? What
Speaker 2: do you do for your birthday?
Speaker 4: Heat just gone?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh did you tell me about that trip I went.
Speaker 5: There for just after Christmas to just celebrate New Year's
Speaker 5: do my birthday out there, chill, catch up with my
Speaker 5: cousin who makes music as well. Just in break like
Speaker 5: I'm learning to refamiliarize myself with because I spent so
Speaker 5: much time here. I know I'm originally from Ghana. At
Speaker 5: some point I would like to go spend an extended
Speaker 5: amount of time there, but there's some kind of like
Speaker 5: acclimatization that you have to do just before that. So
Speaker 5: it's just making Ghana a normal place for me to
Speaker 5: go to making it home.
Speaker 2: So when you got back, you've kind of been busying
Speaker 2: yourself with making more music. What's happened with the first
Speaker 2: kind of chunk of this year? What's that I have
Speaker 2: been spent doing predominantly?
Speaker 4: I was in Sweden for about a week.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you went from hot, you went from hot
Speaker 2: to cold. Then that's brutal. Yeah, Sweden must have been cold.
Speaker 4: Yeah it was. I came back from Ghana.
Speaker 5: I think I did like a week or two weeks
Speaker 5: here working on music, just straight, and then just flew
Speaker 5: to Sweden snowing, just locked myself in homestall. Yeah, just wrote,
Speaker 5: just wrote and wrote and wrote things down that might
Speaker 5: never get used.
Speaker 2: Considering that you do a lot of collaborative work when
Speaker 2: you writing your stuff, your your parts, do you still
Speaker 2: work best in isolation?
Speaker 5: Do you think if people really want me to like
Speaker 5: dig deep, yeah, a little bit. If you want me
Speaker 5: into style a verse out and bring everybody in the room,
Speaker 5: I'll just try and outrap everyone. But like for like
Speaker 5: depth fear some of the deeper records. I wrote that
Speaker 5: by myself at like five am. Cold, do you know
Speaker 5: what I mean? Like being cold?
Speaker 2: I write It's been interesting to note the last few
Speaker 2: years that you've worked with so many different artists. I mean,
Speaker 2: I could probably spend about ten minutes of this podcast
Speaker 2: just listening to people that you've worked with. Well, actually,
Speaker 2: I can name a few that are kind of different.
Speaker 2: People would consider have different vibes from people like Goldling,
Speaker 2: to get Ray Black, Michayla Cole, Tom grennan Aj, Tracy Obunjaya,
Speaker 2: Swindle Wretch, Like these are people that all have different
Speaker 2: approach to what they do. So I wanted to ask
Speaker 2: when it comes to working with another artist, that's a
Speaker 2: lot of disparate sounds that those artists create. There must
Speaker 2: be something that you always look for in order to
Speaker 2: feed you to go, yeah, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 2: do something with this person.
Speaker 3: What is that thing?
Speaker 4: Vibrations?
Speaker 5: That's it to get in the room and vibrate, that's it.
Speaker 5: All of them collaborations there weren't know deep thought of
Speaker 5: like yo, we should get this personal, like either I
Speaker 5: hollered them or they holler me until them managed just
Speaker 5: buy the phone in it.
Speaker 4: Once the phone call comes in, it comes in that.
Speaker 5: I'm trying to think that gold Link, I met gold
Speaker 5: link outside the pub outside of Barney Artist show in
Speaker 5: Hoxton on my road. He hung out a few times,
Speaker 5: got really close. He was working on on his album
Speaker 5: at the time and he wanted to do some like vignettes,
Speaker 5: like video vignettes using some poetry. So we had these
Speaker 5: little sixty second things directed for us and then I
Speaker 5: wrote over the top. But it was like such like
Speaker 5: when people say like working with them. He was like, yo, coach,
Speaker 5: I need this. I bet I've recorded it in a
Speaker 5: voice note and send him the voice notes. So he
Speaker 5: was wherever else in the world. I was lit see
Speaker 5: my room, bought those things, send it across and I
Speaker 5: didn't expect it to go as far as it did,
Speaker 5: but I did. It was cool Tom Grennan. It was
Speaker 5: interesting because I had never met him when I worked
Speaker 5: with him. I worked with a guy called Selassie, producer
Speaker 5: who was working with Tom at the time, and they
Speaker 5: had just done some random demos. One of the random
Speaker 5: demos was Footsteps, like the beat as ray as it was,
Speaker 5: and it had that thing that I am joying, and
Speaker 5: I was like, keep all of this, keep all of
Speaker 5: this and sendul this beat. I'm going off tonight, And
Speaker 5: I said, I sent Selassie a voice note. That same
Speaker 5: night the songs come out. It's obviously like blown up,
Speaker 5: done what it's done. And I met Tom in a
Speaker 5: smoking area of some random ass event and just hear
Speaker 5: it off immediately like that was immediately my guy.
Speaker 4: And that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 5: I feel like life and the vibrations and energy just
Speaker 5: forced people to connect, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 5: Like Rich, I remember when I went to Richer's like
Speaker 5: writing camp. It was like the biggest learning experience ever
Speaker 5: because he is a master at work. He's literally a
Speaker 5: master at work, and it's like you feel like you're
Speaker 5: karate kid. Wait till you see mister Me's that's Rich
Speaker 5: Who else?
Speaker 2: Like what are those writing camps like? Because like I
Speaker 2: a few years ago, I went to one out in
Speaker 2: West London. It was actually for Justin Bieber Record, so
Speaker 2: a different viable together but like effectively again, if people
Speaker 2: don't know what a writing camp is offering in the
Speaker 2: run up to somebody putting an album together, they'll put
Speaker 2: it's basically a meeting of minds. It's put some heads together,
Speaker 2: see what we can come up with and like spark
Speaker 2: some ideas. Basically the one that I attended was in
Speaker 2: a big It was like a residential studio, like an
Speaker 2: old house, and imagine this mansion where in each different
Speaker 2: room at this place, there was a couple of different
Speaker 2: writers all getting together. You know, we're giving a kind
Speaker 2: of theme, giving them some ideas, and said, right, let's
Speaker 2: meet back again at lunchtime. See what we've all got,
Speaker 2: See if there's something that we want to develop, and
Speaker 2: then buy dinner time.
Speaker 3: We've got a new song. How have you found that
Speaker 3: experience of doing those things?
Speaker 5: Wretch's one was the first one I went to, and
Speaker 5: like that would be a slow process for him.
Speaker 3: I can imagine that.
Speaker 5: Would be intensely slow like his I think he had two.
Speaker 5: I only went to one of them. But the one
Speaker 5: I went to was play Deep Studios, Vinis an Angel
Speaker 5: or King's Cross or something like that. I was like,
Speaker 5: four might been four rooms a producer and every at
Speaker 5: least maybe one or two producers in every room. Rioters
Speaker 5: floating about in between each rooms, laying things down as
Speaker 5: they go. And he literally walks into the room while
Speaker 5: standing up and will wrap to the song, no pen,
Speaker 5: no paper, wrap to the song on the spot. You
Speaker 5: hand them like a microphone that you can hold in
Speaker 5: his hand. He'll wrap a demo and leave the room,
Speaker 5: go into the next room and wrap the next song.
Speaker 5: And the song in this song room could be song
Speaker 5: in this room could be a party song. Song in
Speaker 5: the next room could be a deep song about him
Speaker 5: and his mother or something like that. The one in
Speaker 5: that one could be about him and his girl. The
Speaker 5: one in that one could just be another party with him,
Speaker 5: and he can do them simultaneously. And I think for
Speaker 5: me that was like such a massive learning experience because
Speaker 5: it was like it taught me to understand like first
Speaker 5: set the vibe, get the vibe. Set it's not a
Speaker 5: race to finish the tune. But if you could at
Speaker 5: least set a good precedent for the tune, and you
Speaker 5: know it's a banger, it will always be a banger.
Speaker 5: You can't just not be a banger, won't they You
Speaker 5: can go back in and really add the context and
Speaker 5: at the depth. So that's been like one of the
Speaker 5: things that I took into my process. At the moment,
Speaker 5: it was just like set vibes vie vibe by vibe
Speaker 5: now got too many vibes, but now we're just es. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 5: like we were just were sitting there go and like, well,
Speaker 5: I mean like we could drop like three albums today,
Speaker 5: but like, we're just not going to We're just not
Speaker 5: going to do that. I feel like you only get
Speaker 5: X amount of chances at a body of work that
Speaker 5: represents you, and I feel like people have lost the
Speaker 5: that need to have a great body of work. Now
Speaker 5: it's like how many songs can you fit? How many
Speaker 5: of them will immediately be bangers and the rest of
Speaker 5: them can we can generate streams off the back of
Speaker 5: the ones that are Do.
Speaker 2: You aspire to read interviews you in the past where
Speaker 2: you say, when it's time to deliver a debut album
Speaker 2: that it has to be the right body of work
Speaker 2: that represents you. We just take your time over that
Speaker 2: until it's the right thing. Or it's interesting hearing you
Speaker 2: say that you you do aspire to want to do that,
Speaker 2: because let's face it, like you know, the album as
Speaker 2: a format, if that's what we're gonna call it, it's
Speaker 2: not it's not necessity anymore, is it. You could you
Speaker 2: could just forever just keep releasing bangers like individual genes,
Speaker 2: So why do it? Where is the desire come from?
Speaker 5: I feel like I've just like sunk into like ships,
Speaker 5: the version of me that is like fucking incomplete belief
Speaker 5: of like postmodernity and just the idea that like nothing
Speaker 5: is new, it's all just things that have been done before.
Speaker 5: And then on top of that, nothing is so nobody
Speaker 5: wants to be labeled as anything, or nothing wants to
Speaker 5: be labeled as anything because it creates too harsh of
Speaker 5: a definition. And then box this sit and I might
Speaker 5: never drop an album. It don't matter. It don't mean
Speaker 5: people won't get music. But I feel like people really
Speaker 5: go to ask themselves what is the point of.
Speaker 4: Things these days?
Speaker 5: Because I've never not gone to click somebody's music because
Speaker 5: it was just the EP, it was just the album,
Speaker 5: or it's just a mixtape. I want to hear it,
Speaker 5: and if I like it from top to one, I'm
Speaker 5: going to listen to it from top to one. If
Speaker 5: I don't, I'm gonna separate anyway, So the album can
Speaker 5: very quickly become three or four songs in somebody's.
Speaker 4: Playlist the next day.
Speaker 5: I control that there's nothing you can do, so like
Speaker 5: even even now, even entering the new situation, and we've
Speaker 5: got it's like just keep telling them like, yeah, the
Speaker 5: album's coming, but for now we're doing this. So they're like,
Speaker 5: is this the album? And I go, no, it's not
Speaker 5: how we're going to market it. That's not the album. Huh,
Speaker 5: that's that's it. It's not the album.
Speaker 3: Okay, just keep going. I'll tell you when I'm ready.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: It's been interesting and imagine possibly a bit frustrating from
Speaker 2: your point of view, but I don't want to put
Speaker 2: words in your mouth being sometimes held up in terms
Speaker 2: of interviews and features and wherever it may be media
Speaker 2: press about being a so called like political rapper making
Speaker 2: political music. How frustrating can it be when you get
Speaker 2: kind of tired with a brush when ultimately you're writing output,
Speaker 2: be it songs or whatever, outlet of creativity that is
Speaker 2: ultimately just a reflection of your experience.
Speaker 5: Me, people get the bite size is that first, if
Speaker 5: you don't know who I am at all, and you
Speaker 5: go who's coady and someone has to loosely describe me,
Speaker 5: they'd probably be like, oh, it makes and then I
Speaker 5: get stuck and it's like, well, it's a bit like
Speaker 5: then they get stuck again. Then then they just start
Speaker 5: listing off things that they think sounds close to it.
Speaker 5: Then they go but then it's not like rubbish. He's
Speaker 5: not talking rubbish. It's like poetry. But so like is
Speaker 5: it conscious. It's like, no, it's not conscious, but like
Speaker 5: he's not afraid. Like he'll talk about things that political.
Speaker 5: I'll say it's political. It be like, well, yeah, but
Speaker 5: now you know, I mean, like the songs that I
Speaker 5: wrote that were like more politically charged never had political intent.
Speaker 5: So to me, they're not political songs if you are
Speaker 5: look at the context in which most of these songs
Speaker 5: were written. They were all written were purpose. So I'm
Speaker 5: guessing the ones that people list off, Quime and Krima,
Speaker 5: crime and Chrima I wrote because at the time, that
Speaker 5: whole project in the context was about me becoming closer
Speaker 5: with my dad and understanding more about Ghana and his
Speaker 5: process of migration. So as I was turning twenty three
Speaker 5: on that project when he was twenty three, that was
Speaker 5: when Gharnaways made it independent, and he was standing there
Speaker 5: at the speech when when Crimean Kremer said today Ghana
Speaker 5: is free forever.
Speaker 4: So that is an important moment to him.
Speaker 5: So now I'm like, well, that seems like a pretty
Speaker 5: big moment.
Speaker 4: In history.
Speaker 5: How come I don't know that much by it? I'm going, well,
Speaker 5: obviously it won't talk to me in school, so now
Speaker 5: I have to educate myself. So in the process of
Speaker 5: educating myself on who he is and his policies and
Speaker 5: all the things that happened, I see likenesses and I
Speaker 5: feel like, maybe, rather like if I could be in
Speaker 5: his head, what would I feel like When I said,
Speaker 5: they felt like they're twenty mon time, I feel like
Speaker 5: I'm Crimean Kreman. I was like literally, it was like,
Speaker 5: I'm learning about this guy and I feel like him,
Speaker 5: Like I feel like I have the potential to really
Speaker 5: spark a change for free thinking, and not in a
Speaker 5: Kanye sense, but just like actually just like thinking. Then
Speaker 5: it come out and it was like political song and
Speaker 5: I was like okay, and then what like open hand.
Speaker 4: Open Hand I wrote? I wrote at the time of.
Speaker 5: The elections, I think when just before we got made
Speaker 5: into that both sides and what's the one the coalition?
Speaker 3: So we're talking like what must be five years ago?
Speaker 4: Yeah, ages ago?
Speaker 5: I wrote open Handed ages ago, and people still reference
Speaker 5: it as he's a political artist. I guess I was
Speaker 5: five years ago. Yeah, coalition just happened. But for me,
Speaker 5: that's when I started to see it was almost like
Speaker 5: I predicted the future. I saw, I like four saw
Speaker 5: all of these seeds of hate that will grow and
Speaker 5: grow and grow and grow and grow to the point
Speaker 5: where now politics is about separating people. And I wanted
Speaker 5: to make a song that people could use as like
Speaker 5: a manta for not believing in that.
Speaker 4: And yeah, that was five years ago.
Speaker 5: Comen Kruml was like maybe three three years ago or
Speaker 5: something like that. I'll say politically like political things like
Speaker 5: I'm not afraid, like I know what world I live in,
Speaker 5: and really music is my last outlet to just like
Speaker 5: say what I fucking feel.
Speaker 4: But I'm not I'm not. I'm not here to.
Speaker 5: Be like the token political artists because certain political issues
Speaker 5: again that's not at all political issues affect me. But
Speaker 5: some are going to come to my end way quicker
Speaker 5: than others because of the experience.
Speaker 4: I live in my day to day life.
Speaker 5: So if they come out, I want them to come
Speaker 5: out as easy as conversation, Because in conversation people might
Speaker 5: talk about political things, it doesn't necessarily make them instantly
Speaker 5: a political person. You feel me, it just means we
Speaker 5: all have existing it's political.
Speaker 2: It came up in that conversation you had with Spike, lying, yeah,
Speaker 2: but you both put it really nicely. Everybody's making a
Speaker 2: political decision when they make art and share it with
Speaker 2: other people. Even if you decide that it doesn't address
Speaker 2: politics directly, you're still making.
Speaker 5: That Even if you decided not to vote, it's a
Speaker 5: political decision.
Speaker 2: We listen really good to chat to you. We should
Speaker 2: maybe we should stop this podcast and get brainstorm in
Speaker 2: our documentary series.
Speaker 3: Series on where should We Go First? Kenyan Grime. Okay,
Speaker 3: so just watch this space that's going to be coming.
Speaker 3: And thanks for joining us.
Speaker 4: On the podcast. Thank you for having me, man appreciate it.
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