WEBVTT - Ep 68: Kojey Radical

0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.440
<v Speaker 1>Loud and Quiet Presents Midnight Chats.

0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:25.599
<v Speaker 2>Evening listeners, Greg, here, this is Midnight Chats. Thanks for

0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:29.320
<v Speaker 2>joining us for another artist in conversation and tuning in.

0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:30.760
<v Speaker 2>Do you tune into a podcast?

0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:32.479
<v Speaker 3>Maybe not, but.

0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:35.400
<v Speaker 2>Wherever you are and wherever you're listening to this, cheers

0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:38.280
<v Speaker 2>for joining us. Before we get stuck into this week's

0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Midnight Chats. Can I just say what a total privilege

0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:43.960
<v Speaker 2>it was to have Viv Albertine speaking to Stuart on

0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:48.240
<v Speaker 2>last week's episode. She's incredible and what a powerful listen.

0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:52.360
<v Speaker 2>Do seek that out if you haven't already, So thank you, Viv.

0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.920
<v Speaker 2>When we started this we hoped but never imagined we'd

0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:59.160
<v Speaker 2>probably get to a point where we'd have such icons

0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:00.360
<v Speaker 2>to come and talk to us.

0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:01.520
<v Speaker 4>Now.

0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.560
<v Speaker 2>We always try and put a range of voices and

0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:08.720
<v Speaker 2>experiences on the podcast. That's what keeps it interesting for

0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:12.560
<v Speaker 2>us and hopefully for you too. In that spirit, this

0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:16.559
<v Speaker 2>is something totally different from last week. My guest tonight

0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:21.200
<v Speaker 2>is Cogi Radical, the East London based British Ghanaian rapper,

0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:25.680
<v Speaker 2>visual artist, poet, head of an arts collective, fashion designer,

0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:30.800
<v Speaker 2>basically a master of many trades. He is a connected guy,

0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:34.200
<v Speaker 2>or rather he's made himself a connected guy over the

0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:37.720
<v Speaker 2>last five years or so that he's been sharing his creations.

0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:40.240
<v Speaker 3>It was a while.

0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:43.240
<v Speaker 2>Back twenty fourteen when he released his debut project, Dear

0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:47.000
<v Speaker 2>Daisy Opium. Just a year later, it was his EP

0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:52.120
<v Speaker 2>twenty three Winters that introduced him to more people. Since then,

0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:55.680
<v Speaker 2>there's been a steady stream of releases from Koji. The

0:01:56.000 --> 0:02:01.400
<v Speaker 2>thirteen track release in God's Body in twenty seventeen was magnificent,

0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.480
<v Speaker 2>and the single Water that he did with Swindle and

0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:07.360
<v Speaker 2>Mahalia last year. It's also just dropped the video for

0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:09.720
<v Speaker 2>twenty five, which is the track that we talk about

0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:11.200
<v Speaker 2>in this and came out at the start of the

0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:13.160
<v Speaker 2>year and it's very good, So do have a look

0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:16.800
<v Speaker 2>at that. Other artists have noticed his talents as well,

0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:19.440
<v Speaker 2>and we'd beer all night if I listed off the

0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:23.000
<v Speaker 2>people that Cogi has collaborated with. Leave that for the

0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.919
<v Speaker 2>conversation instead. But that's basically a testament to how respected

0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:31.480
<v Speaker 2>and well regarded he is. As I speak to you now,

0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:35.600
<v Speaker 2>it's the end of March and this chat was recorded

0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:38.160
<v Speaker 2>in the middle of February, a couple of weeks before

0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:42.320
<v Speaker 2>the oscars. I mentioned that because he'd recently met and

0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:46.639
<v Speaker 2>interviewed Spike Lee, and Spike's movie Black Clansman was up

0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:50.200
<v Speaker 2>for Best Picture. Cogi came into our office in East London.

0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:53.840
<v Speaker 2>He arrived on time, but then again there was no

0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:57.520
<v Speaker 2>excuse for him not too because he literally lives less

0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:00.520
<v Speaker 2>than a mile away, about five stops on the bus road.

0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:05.600
<v Speaker 2>It was dark, raining buckets outside, but Cogi arrived looking

0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:10.520
<v Speaker 2>very stylish, wearing sunglasses, beanie cool yellow jacket, and I

0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:13.880
<v Speaker 2>thoroughly enjoyed meeting him. We laughed a lot. A quick mention,

0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:17.000
<v Speaker 2>if you are new to Midnight Chats, come on in.

0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:21.080
<v Speaker 2>We are halfway through series seven, now five more of

0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:25.359
<v Speaker 2>these to come in the run some brilliant guests. Subscribe

0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.639
<v Speaker 2>if you don't already, so you get every new episode

0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:32.520
<v Speaker 2>that we put out on Thursday at midnight, and like

0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:37.760
<v Speaker 2>and rate and comment hopefully nice things wherever you're listening

0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:42.600
<v Speaker 2>to this enough from me, Let's get onto Cogi, our

0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:46.840
<v Speaker 2>guest on episode sixty eight of Midnight Chats and Vice.

0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:50.839
<v Speaker 2>If you're listening, We're ready when you are. That will

0:03:50.840 --> 0:04:11.680
<v Speaker 2>make sense in a minute. Coagy, welcome to our podcast

0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Midnight Chats. Thank you for having me been excited about

0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:16.640
<v Speaker 2>having your Actually, oh yeah, because yeah, yeah. I mean

0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:20.280
<v Speaker 2>obviously I've been watching some of your interviews and you've

0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:23.080
<v Speaker 2>always like you seem like you kind of enjoy like,

0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:25.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, having a platform and kind of like and

0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:27.880
<v Speaker 2>doing this kind of thing and getting out there and

0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.320
<v Speaker 2>speaking to different people and different artists and things like

0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:32.320
<v Speaker 2>that to be something you're kind of relish.

0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.520
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I feel like it's it's part of the process.

0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:39.039
<v Speaker 5>I think you spend so much time in sula and

0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:42.040
<v Speaker 5>in your own head and then your own thoughts and

0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:45.640
<v Speaker 5>in rooms listening to things on loop that once they're interpreted,

0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:48.040
<v Speaker 5>they're kind of just interpreted, so and you get a

0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:50.600
<v Speaker 5>chance to i don't know, talk about things or put

0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:52.960
<v Speaker 5>more context to things. It helps shape things in the

0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:54.720
<v Speaker 5>mind of the listener, which I enjoy.

0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:57.320
<v Speaker 2>The So for your sat on there, we've recorded quite

0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.360
<v Speaker 2>a lot of these podcasts in this room, and we've

0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:03.280
<v Speaker 2>had people from all over the world, really North America,

0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:08.200
<v Speaker 2>South America, Asia, even as far as Australia. We had

0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.360
<v Speaker 2>Courtney Barnett on the podcast still while ago literally outside

0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:14.480
<v Speaker 2>of the world. You are definitely the most local person

0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.599
<v Speaker 2>that we've ever had on Midnight Chats because you're.

0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:19.520
<v Speaker 3>From just down the road from Hoxton.

0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:22.560
<v Speaker 2>Cool, which if people are listening to this and they

0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.520
<v Speaker 2>don't know too much about, you know, where, we're doing

0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.000
<v Speaker 2>this just to paint the picture. We're recording this in

0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.640
<v Speaker 2>the Loud and Quiet offices in Hackney. Hoxton is less

0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:32.440
<v Speaker 2>than a mile away.

0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you could probably first you could.

0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.960
<v Speaker 2>You could probably see that your window, if it wasn't

0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.039
<v Speaker 2>if the if the weather wasn't so miserable, you could

0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:42.080
<v Speaker 2>have walked here in about.

0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:43.719
<v Speaker 4>Yeah I didn't, but I could have.

0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:48.200
<v Speaker 5>I'm just contemplating with our walk home, but I probably won't.

0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:49.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it gets soaked.

0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.520
<v Speaker 2>Tell me a little bit about growing up in Hoxton.

0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:54.480
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's one of those places that it might

0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.279
<v Speaker 2>be a familiar name to some people, some of our listeners,

0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:59.640
<v Speaker 2>but it still always sounds like a bit of a

0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.799
<v Speaker 2>curious place to maybe grow up in because people possibly

0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:07.719
<v Speaker 2>immediately associated with nightlife and kind of trendy bars or

0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:10.640
<v Speaker 2>coffee shops or whatever. So what was the reality like

0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:12.359
<v Speaker 2>of growing up in Hogston in East London?

0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:16.919
<v Speaker 5>It was different. It definitely weren't good like. I don't

0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:20.680
<v Speaker 5>like to paint a picture of it being some kind

0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.000
<v Speaker 5>of like coll hole. It wasn't necessarily that. But the

0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:27.200
<v Speaker 5>Hocks then everybody knows now definitely wasn't what it was then.

0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:31.040
<v Speaker 5>I think, speaking more positively, though, there was definitely much

0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:35.680
<v Speaker 5>more of a sense of community and it felt like

0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:40.480
<v Speaker 5>a majority of the places around there were very kind

0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:44.200
<v Speaker 5>of like homegrown businesses and eventually you start to see

0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:46.719
<v Speaker 5>that change and kind of fade out. But I feel

0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:50.240
<v Speaker 5>like what Hocksten is kind of hasn't changed in one sense.

0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:52.960
<v Speaker 5>It just they put a look of paint on it.

0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:55.800
<v Speaker 5>It was probably part of the reason why my outlook

0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:59.040
<v Speaker 5>on life is so eclectic, because you see everything, do

0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:01.159
<v Speaker 5>you know what I mean? You see every think from

0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:06.919
<v Speaker 5>from like deep poverty to like flamboyant ego sharing the

0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:10.400
<v Speaker 5>same paper, And yeah, I think it was just it

0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:12.560
<v Speaker 5>was an interesting bontage point to have so young.

0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:16.360
<v Speaker 2>Without getting too deep into the gentrification debate, it sounds

0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:19.920
<v Speaker 2>like you feel like as money's moved in in certain

0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:22.480
<v Speaker 2>parts of Hoxton, at least because it's not all the same,

0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:26.080
<v Speaker 2>the soul hasn't necessarily moved out of the area at

0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:28.000
<v Speaker 2>the same time, or it has to a certain extent

0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:28.760
<v Speaker 2>or just changed.

0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.000
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, well, there's there's certain things that I would attribute

0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.160
<v Speaker 5>to the soul. I think the market. I lived like

0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:37.520
<v Speaker 5>very close to that hocks the market, and I remember

0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:39.240
<v Speaker 5>as a kid that used to feel like the most

0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:43.000
<v Speaker 5>like hustle and bustle environment and that just started to

0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:46.560
<v Speaker 5>thin out a little bit as gentrification started to take

0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:51.360
<v Speaker 5>place and again more like more buildings with purpose that

0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:55.200
<v Speaker 5>meant things for the community, Like the cafes and stuff

0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.560
<v Speaker 5>are great and it's cool or whatever, but like it's

0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:01.040
<v Speaker 5>not even like they're hiring local youth. Me said, it's

0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:04.560
<v Speaker 5>it's not beneficial to anybody from there. And really, I

0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:06.600
<v Speaker 5>think that's where most areas should begin, do you know

0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:06.920
<v Speaker 5>what I mean?

0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:11.440
<v Speaker 4>And start? But I'm not the mayor yet.

0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:15.000
<v Speaker 2>One day, one day, we had novelists on the podcast

0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:17.120
<v Speaker 2>a while ago, and he was talking about his involvement

0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:20.800
<v Speaker 2>in politics, and I think he was young mayor for

0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.680
<v Speaker 2>his local constituency at one point, and that was interesting.

0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.080
<v Speaker 2>He was talking about a similar point, how like he

0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.320
<v Speaker 2>felt like he wanted to get involved on that front

0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:30.120
<v Speaker 2>and he learned a lot from doing that. He kind

0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:31.640
<v Speaker 2>of stepped away from doing that for a little bit,

0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:34.160
<v Speaker 2>but it was interesting talking to him about a similar subject.

0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.640
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I think it's necessary. I think people forget how

0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:41.440
<v Speaker 5>much love the young have for London and for where

0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:44.480
<v Speaker 5>they grew up and why actually when it was time

0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.920
<v Speaker 5>to fight back, they were so passionate because where we're

0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:49.360
<v Speaker 5>from shape us, shapes us.

0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:50.920
<v Speaker 4>Do you know what I mean? Like it?

0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.000
<v Speaker 5>I don't feel like I would be completely who I

0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:55.520
<v Speaker 5>am if I didn't grow up in Hoxton.

0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:57.440
<v Speaker 3>You're still based around there in the family.

0:08:57.600 --> 0:08:59.240
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, my family lives in Hoxton.

0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.520
<v Speaker 2>And again for people if you don't necessarily know the

0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:07.760
<v Speaker 2>area too well, we're talking like pretty much central London,

0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:10.680
<v Speaker 2>certainly like middle of London. Really you could get on

0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:13.760
<v Speaker 2>a bus and be at Oxford Street in Yeah. Exactly

0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:16.679
<v Speaker 2>what are you like now that you've been doing a

0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:18.640
<v Speaker 2>lot of traveling with your music the last few years,

0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.880
<v Speaker 2>when you leave the city and you're saying more rural

0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:24.560
<v Speaker 2>areas or in smaller cities, are you hungry to get

0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.720
<v Speaker 2>back to the energy of the city in the urban

0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:29.960
<v Speaker 2>environment or are you as you get a little bit older,

0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.000
<v Speaker 2>do you enjoy getting a little bit of time and

0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:34.000
<v Speaker 2>space of being outside of that environment.

0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:36.800
<v Speaker 4>I love the space. I love the time.

0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:39.880
<v Speaker 3>Definitely, you're going to buy a farm money coaching, I.

0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:43.640
<v Speaker 5>Couldn't be bothered problem. I can't be bothered. I'm just

0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:49.200
<v Speaker 5>like the definition of the quiet life. But it's cool.

0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:51.680
<v Speaker 5>I know that it's going to be very hard for

0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:53.640
<v Speaker 5>me to find somewhere else in the world that I'd

0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.000
<v Speaker 5>want to settle, just because I'm used to the hustle

0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.320
<v Speaker 5>and bustle, and a part of not having it makes

0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:00.599
<v Speaker 5>me nervous. Like if I'm in faces that are a

0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.200
<v Speaker 5>bit too quiet, I just keep thinking someone's gonna murder me.

0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.199
<v Speaker 5>No one will be around to help, do you know

0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:08.000
<v Speaker 5>what I mean? Or just like the idea of being

0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:13.360
<v Speaker 5>too distant from firmily or familiarity. But I love traveling,

0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.839
<v Speaker 5>Like luckily it was weird, Like the traveling side of

0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.520
<v Speaker 5>music came from a very weird point in my career,

0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:22.319
<v Speaker 5>so like it forced me to open my eyes.

0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:23.040
<v Speaker 4>Do you know what I mean?

0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:24.640
<v Speaker 3>What do you mean by that?

0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.280
<v Speaker 2>Just like it came in a strange time in the

0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:29.319
<v Speaker 2>sense that that was part of it, you went.

0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:32.560
<v Speaker 5>I think it's like I'm trying to I don't know

0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:34.560
<v Speaker 5>if I'm talking in the context of like my life

0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:36.640
<v Speaker 5>or like music and how I feel about this thing.

0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.640
<v Speaker 5>But like because everyone every every time I say something,

0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:42.920
<v Speaker 5>people got really or yeah, but I know how it

0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:43.720
<v Speaker 5>feels on the inside.

0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:44.160
<v Speaker 4>You get me.

0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.760
<v Speaker 5>So when I started traveling with music, it was at

0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:51.080
<v Speaker 5>a time where I felt like, even though I was

0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:54.679
<v Speaker 5>being embraced, my music had kind of gone cold and

0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.560
<v Speaker 5>I wasn't getting the love that I thought I would

0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:00.560
<v Speaker 5>get in the UK. So like it, well, if it

0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.199
<v Speaker 5>ain't happening here, it ain't really about to happen nowhere else.

0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:06.120
<v Speaker 5>And then all of a sudden, like literally out of nowhere,

0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.000
<v Speaker 5>we just started getting booking requests from like the most

0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:13.000
<v Speaker 5>random parts of the world, and we was like, well,

0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:22.120
<v Speaker 5>let's go. Fuck it went to that Bulgaria, New Zealand, Melbourne, Sydney, Moscow, Johannesburg,

0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:30.280
<v Speaker 5>where has to be, Copenhagen, like just wherever, like in Brazil.

0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:34.640
<v Speaker 5>We did like four shows in Brazil, majority of them

0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:37.679
<v Speaker 5>sold out. I remember the last one was the Johannesburg

0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:39.720
<v Speaker 5>one and that was like six hundred people sold out,

0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:43.600
<v Speaker 5>first time in the country, and it was it was

0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:48.439
<v Speaker 5>crazy to me to know that, like again, when you

0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:50.760
<v Speaker 5>drop a stone in the river, like you're going to

0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:52.720
<v Speaker 5>see a local ripple, you feel me, you don't know

0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:56.719
<v Speaker 5>how far that wave travels. And it was an opportunity

0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:58.440
<v Speaker 5>to see how far it travel to it kind of

0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:02.640
<v Speaker 5>reinvigorated me. So by the time I went through that experience,

0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:08.599
<v Speaker 5>I think I had finished in God's body and it

0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:12.320
<v Speaker 5>was out and I knew there was like some like

0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:14.959
<v Speaker 5>recalibrations I had to make to make sure everything made sense.

0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.400
<v Speaker 5>But now I find myself traveling in order to kind

0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:20.640
<v Speaker 5>of spark that same inspiration that I probably would have

0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:21.920
<v Speaker 5>got just walking around the ends.

0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:22.240
<v Speaker 4>Do you know what?

0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:25.719
<v Speaker 2>Did you find yourself almost having to make a bit

0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:27.680
<v Speaker 2>of a leap of faith. So somebody books you for

0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:30.920
<v Speaker 2>a show in Bulgaria and you're like, I just need

0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:35.520
<v Speaker 2>to Google map. We're about to fly into Yeah, and

0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.720
<v Speaker 2>did it, you know, explode your expectations. You turn up

0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:42.480
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, this is a venue full of just

0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:43.360
<v Speaker 2>people that are pumped.

0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:43.600
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.720
<v Speaker 5>That show in particular was crazy because the guy that

0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.720
<v Speaker 5>booked me was a personal fan.

0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:52.480
<v Speaker 3>Like that why show?

0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:54.520
<v Speaker 4>In many respects essentially.

0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:59.359
<v Speaker 5>He was like, I've got money, I love music in particular,

0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.040
<v Speaker 5>I love your music, and I wanted to put on

0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:05.520
<v Speaker 5>a show for Bulgaria, So I'm paying for everything. Bring

0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.760
<v Speaker 5>the whole band, bring everybody, bring the tour manager, bring everything.

0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:10.920
<v Speaker 5>And we're just going to do this show and Sofia

0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:12.920
<v Speaker 5>as soon as we landed, he came and got us

0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:16.040
<v Speaker 5>and they're like he had like a million questions about

0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:20.920
<v Speaker 5>a million different songs, like different moments, like specific moments,

0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.560
<v Speaker 5>and I was like, you are really a fan. And

0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:25.840
<v Speaker 5>it helped me appreciate the whole thing a lot more.

0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.440
<v Speaker 5>And I've been excited to go back to Bulgaria ever since.

0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:33.560
<v Speaker 4>It's one of them like, oh yeah, like the Bulgaria

0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:34.800
<v Speaker 4>is gonna be lit when I go back.

0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:35.840
<v Speaker 3>It's like, make sure.

0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:41.520
<v Speaker 5>Everyone's like Bulgaria, Go ya Bulgaria. People don't even know

0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:42.760
<v Speaker 5>there's Bulgarian grime.

0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.720
<v Speaker 3>Really tell me about Bulgarian grime.

0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:51.480
<v Speaker 5>Well before So the open and opening act was this

0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.280
<v Speaker 5>Bulgarian rapper and we went in to check him out

0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:57.800
<v Speaker 5>and it was like yo, like he's really spitting. And

0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:02.160
<v Speaker 5>then Zulu was with me up and something. I think

0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:04.640
<v Speaker 5>something happened in he set and he invited the guy

0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:06.920
<v Speaker 5>back on and the guy just started spitting too. Grime

0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:10.040
<v Speaker 5>temposts like on the spot, there's Russian grime as well,

0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.440
<v Speaker 5>there's Russian grime, there's Brazilian grime.

0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:15.920
<v Speaker 2>We're basically what we're doing here is brainstorming like a

0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:17.440
<v Speaker 2>new Vice documentary.

0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.320
<v Speaker 5>I know, yeah, yeah, trust me, they should have been

0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.600
<v Speaker 5>done that. But like grime's heavy. The culture of grime

0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:24.600
<v Speaker 5>is heavy in Brazil.

0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:25.240
<v Speaker 4>They love that.

0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:27.680
<v Speaker 5>They love that shit, and like it's weird because like

0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:30.160
<v Speaker 5>I didn't come up making grime, but I grew up

0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:32.320
<v Speaker 5>in London and it grime is it within you. It's like,

0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.080
<v Speaker 5>if you grow up in the heart of Bushwick, Brooklyn,

0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:36.960
<v Speaker 5>you are going to have hip hop in your heart.

0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:38.880
<v Speaker 5>You're going to have Biggie in your heart. If you

0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.080
<v Speaker 5>grew up in the middle of East London, you were

0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.040
<v Speaker 5>going to have grime in your heart. You're going to

0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:44.800
<v Speaker 5>have sc beat in your heart. You're going to have

0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.560
<v Speaker 5>that He's gonna puls through you. So like as much

0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.160
<v Speaker 5>as I didn't necessarily make grim music, as soon as

0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.400
<v Speaker 5>I landed in these countries and understood they understood our culture,

0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.280
<v Speaker 5>it was way easier to, I guess, embed myself in

0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:00.720
<v Speaker 5>what was going on. So I remember even in Brazil,

0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:02.600
<v Speaker 5>we had done the festival that we kind of got

0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.480
<v Speaker 5>booked for and it was like it's quiet, like it

0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.240
<v Speaker 5>weren't lit, and the promoter that we was with was

0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.320
<v Speaker 5>just like you guys want to do the parties, don't you.

0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:15.280
<v Speaker 5>We was like, yeah, you know what I mean, And

0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:17.240
<v Speaker 5>he's more or less like driven us out to like

0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.920
<v Speaker 5>quite close to the favelas, and I was like, yeah,

0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.120
<v Speaker 5>we're just going to do a set tonight here, and

0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 5>we was like what I remember? It was me, my DJ,

0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:32.440
<v Speaker 5>selector Suave and Pote, who's a producer and DJ works

0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:34.600
<v Speaker 5>closely with Benji b. And then we took a picture

0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:36.640
<v Speaker 5>outside like and send it to my tour manager, like

0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.880
<v Speaker 5>we're here tonight, we're going off g Yeah, we're going

0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:41.520
<v Speaker 5>off the grid, like if you don't hear from me,

0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:45.080
<v Speaker 5>and for hours basically cool. We've walked in and it's

0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:46.880
<v Speaker 5>just like it's a movie, do you know what I mean?

0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:49.760
<v Speaker 5>It's literally a movie. And we was like walking around

0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:52.560
<v Speaker 5>trying to take it and everybody speaking pure Portuguese. It's

0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:56.080
<v Speaker 5>not like that every other person can speak English. Were like,

0:15:56.760 --> 0:16:00.880
<v Speaker 5>and then we'll walk like they're playing like Brazilian funk

0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:03.280
<v Speaker 5>but also like a lot of like trap, and then

0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:07.800
<v Speaker 5>all of a sudden we just hear I can't remember

0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:09.560
<v Speaker 5>what grime tune it was. I think I might've been

0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:11.800
<v Speaker 5>pasing Q's or something like that. And we've all just

0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:14.880
<v Speaker 5>looked at each other and went, oh, it's lip you

0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:17.760
<v Speaker 5>know what I mean, Oh, it's lit like we're good.

0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:22.200
<v Speaker 5>Gone in there, wrecked it like turned it into like

0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:24.880
<v Speaker 5>some like like they split the middle open because there

0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:27.560
<v Speaker 5>was no stage, so split the middle open, and.

0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:29.720
<v Speaker 4>It was like people on me, You're in the middle.

0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:31.200
<v Speaker 4>I was in the middle and just.

0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:33.520
<v Speaker 5>Barring off and it's like people just in my face

0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:37.120
<v Speaker 5>just like love it like going off. And then news

0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:39.040
<v Speaker 5>kind of traveled throughout Brazil and we got booked for

0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.960
<v Speaker 5>some other ones. We ended up flying to Rio and

0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:46.560
<v Speaker 5>did a party there called I Hate Mondays Insane. I

0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.920
<v Speaker 5>saw a kid get chucked across the room like mosh

0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:54.080
<v Speaker 5>pit style, just lifted it and like catapulted when I

0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:57.640
<v Speaker 5>think after Winter dropped or something like that. And just

0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:59.880
<v Speaker 5>seeing those kind of reactions to my music made me

0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:04.280
<v Speaker 5>understanding a completely different light, because I think London caught

0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:07.320
<v Speaker 5>me as a poet. I mean they was introduced to

0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:09.560
<v Speaker 5>me as a poet. When they hear my name, the

0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:12.000
<v Speaker 5>first thing that probably comes to mind is poet. So

0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.840
<v Speaker 5>the way they approach my shows is very subdued in

0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:18.280
<v Speaker 5>terms of the energy that I've required to feed off

0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:20.359
<v Speaker 5>in order to create a better show. But I feel

0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:22.200
<v Speaker 5>like all of that changed when we did the Coco

0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:23.119
<v Speaker 5>Show in November.

0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.240
<v Speaker 3>I've seen footage from that and it did go off.

0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:26.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it was nuice.

0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:30.560
<v Speaker 2>So where I mean that sounds really exciting, like going

0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.440
<v Speaker 2>going around the world, Like a lot of the time,

0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.640
<v Speaker 2>artists will just turn up, they'll play their show, they'll

0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.240
<v Speaker 2>go into their dressing room, they get on whatever mode

0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:41.160
<v Speaker 2>of transport they're taking to go to the next place.

0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:43.760
<v Speaker 2>It sounds like you've managed to have an experienced last

0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:45.959
<v Speaker 2>for years, where like you say, you've managed to discover

0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:49.600
<v Speaker 2>Bulgarian grime, Russian grimes, and Brazilian grime like these scenes.

0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:52.560
<v Speaker 2>Do you feel the impulse to do anything with that,

0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:54.960
<v Speaker 2>Like I mean a joke about the kind of series,

0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.399
<v Speaker 2>but like you've made tour documentaries before, would you consider

0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:00.560
<v Speaker 2>maybe doing developing that idea in some way?

0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.639
<v Speaker 5>I feel like more time, I just wait for people

0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:08.639
<v Speaker 5>to understand that I'm a genius and then approach me

0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:13.720
<v Speaker 5>with the like sufficient deal to incorporate said genius. And

0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:15.880
<v Speaker 5>I'm right there. I work hard, I show up on time,

0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:18.719
<v Speaker 5>there's no question mark. I think it's just more so

0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.840
<v Speaker 5>just going like let's just cut the fat. Like I know,

0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.119
<v Speaker 5>we measure everything on this metric and that metric, and no,

0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.760
<v Speaker 5>we have a person that actually, for whatever reason, can

0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:32.960
<v Speaker 5>just float through any walk of life and and be

0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.360
<v Speaker 5>embraced in a way that makes me now a part

0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:38.040
<v Speaker 5>of that experience for however long I'm there.

0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:41.040
<v Speaker 4>This should be a thing. But I don't know.

0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:43.320
<v Speaker 5>You might have the genius gene too, because you saw

0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:45.600
<v Speaker 5>it was an idea, but we're just still waiting, still

0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:46.119
<v Speaker 5>waiting for them.

0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:48.160
<v Speaker 2>We need to put these genius genes together and find

0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.120
<v Speaker 2>somebody with essentially some belief in some cash.

0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:52.960
<v Speaker 5>Belief in a check, and we can we can move,

0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.399
<v Speaker 5>we can talk. I'm like hoping to do more stuff

0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.320
<v Speaker 5>with like way more platforms, hopefully maybe some more stuff

0:18:58.320 --> 0:18:58.760
<v Speaker 5>with Vice.

0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:00.880
<v Speaker 4>We did that really quick. We did it. I interviewed

0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:02.520
<v Speaker 4>Spike Lee.

0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:04.439
<v Speaker 2>I was going to ask about that later. I mean,

0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:06.400
<v Speaker 2>we might as well talk about it now. What did

0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.280
<v Speaker 2>you take away from that experience of meeting Spike Lee?

0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:11.359
<v Speaker 2>And I mean you were I don't know how much

0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:15.080
<v Speaker 2>interviewing you've done before. This is obviously switching places, so

0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:17.560
<v Speaker 2>to speak, to what you're normally used to, but did

0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:20.479
<v Speaker 2>feel very natural like, you did a good job with it.

0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:23.800
<v Speaker 2>What was it like spending that hour within half an

0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:25.960
<v Speaker 2>hour whatever it was in the end, do you.

0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:26.359
<v Speaker 4>Know what it is?

0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:30.320
<v Speaker 5>I've always hated interviews but loved conversations, So with that,

0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:32.840
<v Speaker 5>when I was in an interview process, majority of the

0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:35.480
<v Speaker 5>time it ended up turning into a conversation, just because

0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.399
<v Speaker 5>that's just the way I try to steer things, so

0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:39.800
<v Speaker 5>at least I'm not on the edge the whole time.

0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:45.560
<v Speaker 5>And I had done somebody had asked me to be

0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:49.399
<v Speaker 5>involved in this Sky Atlantic series that was going on

0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:54.040
<v Speaker 5>for a series called Gorilla, and we did like a

0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:57.359
<v Speaker 5>mini documentary series with SBTV on that one, and then

0:19:57.400 --> 0:19:59.680
<v Speaker 5>I did a collaborative song with Rebecca Ferguson. At the

0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:01.399
<v Speaker 5>end of it was kind of like a very like

0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:02.840
<v Speaker 5>interesting process.

0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:04.120
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, like.

0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:08.160
<v Speaker 5>I did one of the last interviews with Dark as Hell,

0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:14.600
<v Speaker 5>Like we interviewed everybody from the cast through the pinto

0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:16.480
<v Speaker 5>like everyone.

0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:17.040
<v Speaker 4>It was lit.

0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:19.640
<v Speaker 5>I think maybe that kind of showed people that he's

0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:24.120
<v Speaker 5>good at the whole like interview things. Then how did

0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:29.280
<v Speaker 5>that come about? Jenna, my amazing publicist, said we should

0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:32.440
<v Speaker 5>go into a meeting advice, and I went and sat down.

0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:38.000
<v Speaker 4>With Alex and he sound yeah, sound load.

0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.760
<v Speaker 3>And in a couple of weeks day he says Spikes.

0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.520
<v Speaker 4>Like, do you want to interview Spike Lee.

0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:51.320
<v Speaker 5>I said, yes, We've gone cinema, watched the film and

0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:54.920
<v Speaker 5>Alex liked it. Come back. So I'm sitting in the

0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:56.560
<v Speaker 5>room now waiting for him. Like this is like a

0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:58.680
<v Speaker 5>few days later, so I've had a couple of days

0:20:58.680 --> 0:20:59.320
<v Speaker 5>to digest it.

0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:02.400
<v Speaker 4>Sitting in the room and.

0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:09.640
<v Speaker 5>I have one long Island dice tea than another one

0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:11.640
<v Speaker 5>immediately afterwards.

0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:13.040
<v Speaker 4>And I was fine after that, do you know what

0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:13.360
<v Speaker 4>I mean?

0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:16.439
<v Speaker 5>I was really to go and he's come in and

0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:18.840
<v Speaker 5>he's only really meant to do about twenty thirty minutes

0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:20.800
<v Speaker 5>in each room, but he did about forty five minutes

0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:22.840
<v Speaker 5>with me just talking, and you know, for the most part,

0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:25.840
<v Speaker 5>because again it was an interview process, so like one

0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:27.359
<v Speaker 5>like I've got a lot of time to have like

0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:32.800
<v Speaker 5>a deep personal moment. But meeting certain people you kind

0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:35.560
<v Speaker 5>of take away certain things from their area and their presence,

0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:38.920
<v Speaker 5>and being around him kind of always taught me that

0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:41.159
<v Speaker 5>it doesn't matter how far you've gone, do you know

0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:44.280
<v Speaker 5>what I mean, Like what you've contributed to the scale

0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:48.600
<v Speaker 5>of or how much people value it. There's always more

0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:50.280
<v Speaker 5>to do, do you know what I mean? There's always

0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:52.720
<v Speaker 5>more to get done, and that humility and that kind

0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:55.840
<v Speaker 5>of like head down, like, here's another product, here's another conversation,

0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:58.760
<v Speaker 5>here's another contribution to what I feel. It's important while

0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:03.280
<v Speaker 5>I'm alive. I think, Yeah, I just try and take

0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:05.080
<v Speaker 5>those kind of energies and put them into what I'm

0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:05.479
<v Speaker 5>trying to do.

0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:07.639
<v Speaker 2>Two quick questions off the back of that, By the

0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:09.960
<v Speaker 2>time people hear this, Black Clansman might have won an

0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Oscar Best Picture. Would you like to see that?

0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:14.880
<v Speaker 4>That'd be good. Yeah, that'd be good.

0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:19.760
<v Speaker 5>I've got a sick little jiff meme of me and

0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:20.680
<v Speaker 5>Spike laughing.

0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:21.560
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:23.440
<v Speaker 5>So if it wins, then I'm just going to drop

0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:25.880
<v Speaker 5>that and be like congrat Spike in.

0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:28.879
<v Speaker 3>A timely moment, and just the internet turn up to

0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:29.640
<v Speaker 3>that cogrets.

0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:35.040
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, my old power knows me.

0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:37.439
<v Speaker 2>We're talking a minute about all the different things that

0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:39.480
<v Speaker 2>you do. You're a bit of a polymath, you kind

0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:41.280
<v Speaker 2>of in terms of your art and what you create.

0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:45.560
<v Speaker 2>If you've always been quite fearless about basically trying something new,

0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:48.640
<v Speaker 2>because something like often fear does kind of hold people back,

0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:51.320
<v Speaker 2>and they sort of think not everybody would basically have

0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:53.879
<v Speaker 2>got in that car and driven to the almost favelas

0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:55.600
<v Speaker 2>and turned up at a show and just been like, Okay,

0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:57.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go with this and this might be

0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:00.359
<v Speaker 2>an amazing experience. Some people would have been like absolutely not,

0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:03.880
<v Speaker 2>no way. So if you if you always live without fear,

0:23:04.040 --> 0:23:06.280
<v Speaker 2>was there a moment where you're like, I need to

0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:08.920
<v Speaker 2>kind of let go and basically I'll give anything, most

0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:10.160
<v Speaker 2>things to go at least.

0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:11.399
<v Speaker 4>What have you got to lose.

0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:15.000
<v Speaker 5>We're here until we're not here, and I've seen a

0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:21.360
<v Speaker 5>lot of people die, So for me, the the process

0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:26.080
<v Speaker 5>of living is literally to experience. And if you have

0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:28.800
<v Speaker 5>an idea, you were a vessel for their idea, so

0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:30.520
<v Speaker 5>in a way you kind of have to give life

0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:33.520
<v Speaker 5>to it. And that was just my process for being

0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:39.240
<v Speaker 5>on the Earth's just giving life to your ideas and

0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:41.920
<v Speaker 5>seeing what happens with them. I didn't know. I knew

0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:44.320
<v Speaker 5>I wasn't going to be regular, but I just couldn't

0:23:44.320 --> 0:23:46.000
<v Speaker 5>be bothered. I kept getting fired from everything.

0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:48.440
<v Speaker 3>What the jobs that you started doing.

0:23:48.960 --> 0:23:51.520
<v Speaker 4>I got fired from every job I worked, per se,

0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:52.240
<v Speaker 4>maybe like.

0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:55.680
<v Speaker 3>One exact because you just you knew it was in

0:23:55.720 --> 0:23:56.440
<v Speaker 3>your passion, and.

0:23:56.840 --> 0:23:58.639
<v Speaker 4>I don't know. I thought I was a good employee.

0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:02.680
<v Speaker 5>I thought I had some reputable skills for I was

0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:06.600
<v Speaker 5>all right to have around, clearly not like got fired.

0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:09.840
<v Speaker 5>I don't know what happened, but I always knew that

0:24:10.440 --> 0:24:13.360
<v Speaker 5>I'm not the guy that's taken more hours. Don't matter

0:24:13.359 --> 0:24:15.760
<v Speaker 5>how broke I am.

0:24:16.400 --> 0:24:17.040
<v Speaker 4>Can you cover this?

0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:20.720
<v Speaker 5>No, can't cover it. Can't cover it. Can't cover it

0:24:20.720 --> 0:24:22.560
<v Speaker 5>because my time is my time, you feel me, and

0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:27.919
<v Speaker 5>I If I keep thinking that it's only like my

0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:30.640
<v Speaker 5>personal time is only worth the amount of hour that

0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:33.520
<v Speaker 5>they suggest it is, then I'll never be able to

0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:37.240
<v Speaker 5>kind of get out this phase of of accepting that

0:24:37.560 --> 0:24:40.000
<v Speaker 5>and wanting to push past that. So my time was

0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:42.399
<v Speaker 5>my whatever. I didn't like the days I head off,

0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:44.840
<v Speaker 5>I did everything like you get me, like I'm trying

0:24:44.840 --> 0:24:45.399
<v Speaker 5>to do everything.

0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:48.800
<v Speaker 4>You just get lost. It's so easy to get lost.

0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:52.360
<v Speaker 2>It raises an interesting question now, because presume you feel

0:24:52.359 --> 0:24:55.159
<v Speaker 2>like you're in a fortunate position whereby you turn your

0:24:55.200 --> 0:24:57.880
<v Speaker 2>passions into your career. Right, So your job is your

0:24:58.119 --> 0:25:04.399
<v Speaker 2>passion being music, making videos, interviewing, spight ly illustrations, et cetera.

0:25:04.560 --> 0:25:06.720
<v Speaker 2>All of the different elements of what you put together

0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:09.200
<v Speaker 2>to create what it is your universe, what you do

0:25:10.040 --> 0:25:12.800
<v Speaker 2>when it becomes your job and it's your passion at

0:25:12.800 --> 0:25:16.760
<v Speaker 2>the same time, that brings up its own challenges, doesn't it.

0:25:16.760 --> 0:25:18.240
<v Speaker 2>Because the thing that you just mentioned there is like

0:25:18.240 --> 0:25:20.439
<v Speaker 2>when you're doing a regular job and it's like, you know,

0:25:20.440 --> 0:25:22.320
<v Speaker 2>you're clocking in for eight hours a day, and you're

0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:24.520
<v Speaker 2>kind of like, that's my job. In my brain, I

0:25:24.560 --> 0:25:27.280
<v Speaker 2>can like siphon that off. That's over here, My passions

0:25:27.280 --> 0:25:30.040
<v Speaker 2>are over here. When those two things come together, it

0:25:30.080 --> 0:25:35.160
<v Speaker 2>becomes more difficult, presumably because you're like always on. So

0:25:35.200 --> 0:25:39.399
<v Speaker 2>how do you do you have ways of managing that

0:25:39.440 --> 0:25:41.760
<v Speaker 2>in Yeah.

0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:45.840
<v Speaker 5>Nah, okay, I smoke a lot of weed pretty much

0:25:45.960 --> 0:25:51.000
<v Speaker 5>like that. I laugh about that because like it was

0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:52.800
<v Speaker 5>kind of there was a point where I was like, yeah,

0:25:52.920 --> 0:25:55.480
<v Speaker 5>I'm done, not smoking no more.

0:25:56.119 --> 0:25:56.560
<v Speaker 4>Finished.

0:25:57.200 --> 0:26:03.000
<v Speaker 5>This was like maybe three years ago, and then the

0:26:03.080 --> 0:26:06.360
<v Speaker 5>next day I think I started the project. Smoked every

0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:11.760
<v Speaker 5>day because my brain never it never turned off. If

0:26:11.800 --> 0:26:14.280
<v Speaker 5>I ever got a free moment, I had to think about.

0:26:14.400 --> 0:26:18.800
<v Speaker 5>I was like I was independent for five years. I

0:26:19.040 --> 0:26:22.399
<v Speaker 5>was the brain behind everything to get me. I was

0:26:22.440 --> 0:26:25.399
<v Speaker 5>pushing everything, making everything stay afloat, so I had to

0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:28.840
<v Speaker 5>worry about everything, everything from Texas to insurance, so silly,

0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:32.119
<v Speaker 5>get me that everything. So it just it was long

0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:34.399
<v Speaker 5>like now I don't have to worry about that. I

0:26:34.440 --> 0:26:36.960
<v Speaker 5>think I probably made some of the sickest music I've

0:26:37.000 --> 0:26:39.600
<v Speaker 5>ever made in my life, like in the last few months,

0:26:39.640 --> 0:26:40.320
<v Speaker 5>just because I ain't.

0:26:40.800 --> 0:26:42.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because parts of those things have taken care of

0:26:42.960 --> 0:26:45.639
<v Speaker 2>and that's part of that. You don't have to concern

0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:48.000
<v Speaker 2>yourself with that, some of those logistics.

0:26:47.480 --> 0:26:51.080
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, exactly. I just it was like I find that,

0:26:51.280 --> 0:26:55.359
<v Speaker 5>like I don't know. I was always just more Soto typed,

0:26:55.400 --> 0:26:58.480
<v Speaker 5>like do what you got to do, handle what you've

0:26:58.480 --> 0:27:03.800
<v Speaker 5>got to do. Just bomb and don't worry about no

0:27:03.840 --> 0:27:06.679
<v Speaker 5>one else's opinion, you feel me. So I'm not the

0:27:06.680 --> 0:27:09.280
<v Speaker 5>showy guy. I'm not the show off. Like all the

0:27:09.280 --> 0:27:11.600
<v Speaker 5>things I like done in my life, I could easily be.

0:27:12.440 --> 0:27:17.120
<v Speaker 5>I could glow every day. It's pointless me like, you.

0:27:17.160 --> 0:27:19.479
<v Speaker 4>Only win with more work, so that you just got

0:27:19.520 --> 0:27:20.480
<v Speaker 4>to keep going to work.

0:27:21.720 --> 0:27:22.720
<v Speaker 3>Let's talk about music.

0:27:23.359 --> 0:27:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Start by talking about twenty five, which was the track

0:27:26.760 --> 0:27:31.640
<v Speaker 2>that you started twenty nineteen by releasing, and to my mind,

0:27:31.680 --> 0:27:34.040
<v Speaker 2>at least, it felt like a bit of it felt

0:27:34.119 --> 0:27:39.320
<v Speaker 2>like you taking stock, like kind of reflecting on the

0:27:39.400 --> 0:27:42.120
<v Speaker 2>past twenty five years because you just turned twenty six

0:27:42.160 --> 0:27:44.119
<v Speaker 2>and my right, yeah, so this was you kind of

0:27:44.119 --> 0:27:46.520
<v Speaker 2>taking a moment to just sort of like reflect on

0:27:46.720 --> 0:27:50.920
<v Speaker 2>on years ago, but also kind of what's happened in

0:27:51.680 --> 0:27:53.879
<v Speaker 2>a particularly busy spell for you the last two or

0:27:53.880 --> 0:27:56.240
<v Speaker 2>three years, Like we've already just been talking about. Is

0:27:56.240 --> 0:27:58.040
<v Speaker 2>that Am I reading that right? Is that how you

0:27:58.040 --> 0:27:59.520
<v Speaker 2>felt about that track? Tell me a little bit more

0:27:59.560 --> 0:28:00.240
<v Speaker 2>about twenty.

0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:04.080
<v Speaker 5>Five twenty five? Was that it was like, well, you've

0:28:04.080 --> 0:28:05.040
<v Speaker 5>been here twenty five.

0:28:04.920 --> 0:28:07.480
<v Speaker 3>Years, bro, you got your court century up.

0:28:07.520 --> 0:28:09.760
<v Speaker 4>You know what I mean? Like, you're here, what does

0:28:09.800 --> 0:28:11.480
<v Speaker 4>it feel like? For me?

0:28:11.520 --> 0:28:13.040
<v Speaker 5>I always got what does it feel like? And then

0:28:13.080 --> 0:28:17.840
<v Speaker 5>that dictates the production. So it was bright. It was

0:28:17.920 --> 0:28:21.000
<v Speaker 5>a good feeling because again, like a lot of my

0:28:21.080 --> 0:28:22.879
<v Speaker 5>friends didn't make it this far, you get me, and

0:28:23.000 --> 0:28:29.359
<v Speaker 5>like you want a way to to celebrate that in

0:28:29.400 --> 0:28:33.040
<v Speaker 5>a way that that honors their time on earth and

0:28:33.119 --> 0:28:37.159
<v Speaker 5>what it's taught you moving forward. The overall tone of

0:28:37.200 --> 0:28:39.680
<v Speaker 5>what I was actually rapping about outside of the music

0:28:39.800 --> 0:28:42.800
<v Speaker 5>was really sad. So I like, our whole thing at

0:28:42.800 --> 0:28:46.680
<v Speaker 5>the moment has just been like juxtaposing.

0:28:47.320 --> 0:28:49.080
<v Speaker 4>The memories of me being in.

0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:53.280
<v Speaker 5>Like depressive state with the optimism that I now want

0:28:53.280 --> 0:28:56.480
<v Speaker 5>to have in life. I'm kind of messing that together

0:28:56.520 --> 0:29:00.280
<v Speaker 5>with the music. So it's interesting. What's funny is that

0:29:00.360 --> 0:29:04.000
<v Speaker 5>whenever I make songs like that, I think to myself,

0:29:05.480 --> 0:29:10.240
<v Speaker 5>what's that? What's like the twenty fourteen crop. I'm gonna

0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:16.200
<v Speaker 5>think about this one? A sold out? Why is it

0:29:16.240 --> 0:29:20.200
<v Speaker 5>all like trappy? Why it's so bright?

0:29:20.520 --> 0:29:20.680
<v Speaker 3>Ah?

0:29:21.760 --> 0:29:26.480
<v Speaker 5>Fucking idiots like I love I love everybody. I remember

0:29:26.480 --> 0:29:28.160
<v Speaker 5>I used to because I didn't get like, I didn't

0:29:28.160 --> 0:29:32.400
<v Speaker 5>get fucking mountains of attention in my opinion anyway, But

0:29:32.880 --> 0:29:36.040
<v Speaker 5>so I listened to everything. If I saw somebody did

0:29:36.080 --> 0:29:39.000
<v Speaker 5>like a project review on YouTube, it don't matter if

0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:41.000
<v Speaker 5>twenty five years I was view twenty six.

0:29:41.080 --> 0:29:42.360
<v Speaker 4>I saw it early. You get me.

0:29:42.880 --> 0:29:46.400
<v Speaker 5>And I remember when in God's Body dropped, it was

0:29:46.480 --> 0:29:48.800
<v Speaker 5>just like some old stands. Let me not even call

0:29:48.880 --> 0:29:53.400
<v Speaker 5>them that, that's rude, but like just old supporters that

0:29:54.600 --> 0:29:59.480
<v Speaker 5>it was like, ah, we missed the experimental production of

0:29:59.640 --> 0:30:07.520
<v Speaker 5>like like his earlier work goes, what.

0:30:05.280 --> 0:30:06.239
<v Speaker 4>Are you talking about? Like?

0:30:06.480 --> 0:30:08.560
<v Speaker 5>I made every beat like not even like I mean like,

0:30:08.600 --> 0:30:11.520
<v Speaker 5>but we made every beat as we went along. There

0:30:11.600 --> 0:30:13.760
<v Speaker 5>was no like today we're moving into this world.

0:30:14.040 --> 0:30:15.040
<v Speaker 4>We just made music.

0:30:15.760 --> 0:30:18.200
<v Speaker 5>Clearly, you just like one type of music and not

0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:20.920
<v Speaker 5>the other. So if you just like that stuff, then

0:30:21.000 --> 0:30:23.000
<v Speaker 5>I've got music. There's music there. Listen to that stuff

0:30:23.120 --> 0:30:25.680
<v Speaker 5>bare times. Those songs don't have a million plays. If

0:30:25.680 --> 0:30:27.280
<v Speaker 5>you really liked it that much, you would listen to

0:30:27.280 --> 0:30:28.080
<v Speaker 5>it a million times.

0:30:28.320 --> 0:30:30.400
<v Speaker 2>How are you feeling getting into your twenty sixth year then,

0:30:30.560 --> 0:30:32.880
<v Speaker 2>do you? I mean you celebrate your birthday at the

0:30:32.960 --> 0:30:35.160
<v Speaker 2>start of the year day, so just into January? What

0:30:35.160 --> 0:30:37.400
<v Speaker 2>do you do for your birthday?

0:30:38.480 --> 0:30:40.000
<v Speaker 4>Heat just gone?

0:30:40.200 --> 0:30:44.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Oh did you tell me about that trip I went.

0:30:43.960 --> 0:30:48.920
<v Speaker 5>There for just after Christmas to just celebrate New Year's

0:30:48.920 --> 0:30:52.160
<v Speaker 5>do my birthday out there, chill, catch up with my

0:30:52.240 --> 0:30:55.160
<v Speaker 5>cousin who makes music as well. Just in break like

0:30:55.200 --> 0:31:00.760
<v Speaker 5>I'm learning to refamiliarize myself with because I spent so

0:31:00.840 --> 0:31:03.080
<v Speaker 5>much time here. I know I'm originally from Ghana. At

0:31:03.160 --> 0:31:04.960
<v Speaker 5>some point I would like to go spend an extended

0:31:04.960 --> 0:31:06.960
<v Speaker 5>amount of time there, but there's some kind of like

0:31:06.960 --> 0:31:09.800
<v Speaker 5>acclimatization that you have to do just before that. So

0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:12.480
<v Speaker 5>it's just making Ghana a normal place for me to

0:31:12.520 --> 0:31:14.200
<v Speaker 5>go to making it home.

0:31:14.880 --> 0:31:17.800
<v Speaker 2>So when you got back, you've kind of been busying

0:31:17.880 --> 0:31:20.000
<v Speaker 2>yourself with making more music. What's happened with the first

0:31:20.080 --> 0:31:21.840
<v Speaker 2>kind of chunk of this year? What's that I have

0:31:21.840 --> 0:31:23.160
<v Speaker 2>been spent doing predominantly?

0:31:24.240 --> 0:31:25.760
<v Speaker 4>I was in Sweden for about a week.

0:31:26.080 --> 0:31:27.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so you went from hot, you went from hot

0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:32.160
<v Speaker 2>to cold. Then that's brutal. Yeah, Sweden must have been cold.

0:31:32.040 --> 0:31:33.760
<v Speaker 4>Yeah it was. I came back from Ghana.

0:31:33.840 --> 0:31:37.320
<v Speaker 5>I think I did like a week or two weeks

0:31:37.320 --> 0:31:41.360
<v Speaker 5>here working on music, just straight, and then just flew

0:31:41.400 --> 0:31:51.680
<v Speaker 5>to Sweden snowing, just locked myself in homestall. Yeah, just wrote,

0:31:52.080 --> 0:31:55.600
<v Speaker 5>just wrote and wrote and wrote things down that might

0:31:55.640 --> 0:31:56.400
<v Speaker 5>never get used.

0:31:56.600 --> 0:31:59.840
<v Speaker 2>Considering that you do a lot of collaborative work when

0:31:59.840 --> 0:32:03.480
<v Speaker 2>you writing your stuff, your your parts, do you still

0:32:03.480 --> 0:32:04.760
<v Speaker 2>work best in isolation?

0:32:04.840 --> 0:32:06.880
<v Speaker 5>Do you think if people really want me to like

0:32:06.920 --> 0:32:11.200
<v Speaker 5>dig deep, yeah, a little bit. If you want me

0:32:11.240 --> 0:32:13.479
<v Speaker 5>into style a verse out and bring everybody in the room,

0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:16.920
<v Speaker 5>I'll just try and outrap everyone. But like for like

0:32:17.080 --> 0:32:20.200
<v Speaker 5>depth fear some of the deeper records. I wrote that

0:32:20.280 --> 0:32:24.360
<v Speaker 5>by myself at like five am. Cold, do you know

0:32:24.360 --> 0:32:25.640
<v Speaker 5>what I mean? Like being cold?

0:32:25.880 --> 0:32:29.040
<v Speaker 2>I write It's been interesting to note the last few

0:32:29.080 --> 0:32:32.479
<v Speaker 2>years that you've worked with so many different artists. I mean,

0:32:32.520 --> 0:32:34.800
<v Speaker 2>I could probably spend about ten minutes of this podcast

0:32:34.920 --> 0:32:38.360
<v Speaker 2>just listening to people that you've worked with. Well, actually,

0:32:38.360 --> 0:32:40.360
<v Speaker 2>I can name a few that are kind of different.

0:32:40.480 --> 0:32:45.320
<v Speaker 2>People would consider have different vibes from people like Goldling,

0:32:45.480 --> 0:32:51.480
<v Speaker 2>to get Ray Black, Michayla Cole, Tom grennan Aj, Tracy Obunjaya,

0:32:52.240 --> 0:32:56.080
<v Speaker 2>Swindle Wretch, Like these are people that all have different

0:32:56.080 --> 0:32:58.640
<v Speaker 2>approach to what they do. So I wanted to ask

0:32:59.680 --> 0:33:02.800
<v Speaker 2>when it comes to working with another artist, that's a

0:33:02.800 --> 0:33:05.880
<v Speaker 2>lot of disparate sounds that those artists create. There must

0:33:05.920 --> 0:33:08.960
<v Speaker 2>be something that you always look for in order to

0:33:08.960 --> 0:33:12.040
<v Speaker 2>feed you to go, yeah, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna

0:33:12.080 --> 0:33:13.080
<v Speaker 2>do something with this person.

0:33:13.520 --> 0:33:14.360
<v Speaker 3>What is that thing?

0:33:16.840 --> 0:33:18.040
<v Speaker 4>Vibrations?

0:33:18.520 --> 0:33:22.520
<v Speaker 5>That's it to get in the room and vibrate, that's it.

0:33:22.840 --> 0:33:28.120
<v Speaker 5>All of them collaborations there weren't know deep thought of

0:33:28.200 --> 0:33:31.080
<v Speaker 5>like yo, we should get this personal, like either I

0:33:31.160 --> 0:33:34.560
<v Speaker 5>hollered them or they holler me until them managed just

0:33:34.600 --> 0:33:35.520
<v Speaker 5>buy the phone in it.

0:33:35.600 --> 0:33:37.920
<v Speaker 4>Once the phone call comes in, it comes in that.

0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:40.400
<v Speaker 5>I'm trying to think that gold Link, I met gold

0:33:40.440 --> 0:33:44.560
<v Speaker 5>link outside the pub outside of Barney Artist show in

0:33:44.680 --> 0:33:47.720
<v Speaker 5>Hoxton on my road. He hung out a few times,

0:33:48.600 --> 0:33:53.160
<v Speaker 5>got really close. He was working on on his album

0:33:53.200 --> 0:33:58.320
<v Speaker 5>at the time and he wanted to do some like vignettes,

0:33:58.680 --> 0:34:02.400
<v Speaker 5>like video vignettes using some poetry. So we had these

0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:05.600
<v Speaker 5>little sixty second things directed for us and then I

0:34:05.600 --> 0:34:07.840
<v Speaker 5>wrote over the top. But it was like such like

0:34:07.920 --> 0:34:11.200
<v Speaker 5>when people say like working with them. He was like, yo, coach,

0:34:11.280 --> 0:34:13.440
<v Speaker 5>I need this. I bet I've recorded it in a

0:34:13.520 --> 0:34:16.360
<v Speaker 5>voice note and send him the voice notes. So he

0:34:16.440 --> 0:34:18.040
<v Speaker 5>was wherever else in the world. I was lit see

0:34:18.120 --> 0:34:20.520
<v Speaker 5>my room, bought those things, send it across and I

0:34:20.520 --> 0:34:22.000
<v Speaker 5>didn't expect it to go as far as it did,

0:34:22.000 --> 0:34:24.799
<v Speaker 5>but I did. It was cool Tom Grennan. It was

0:34:24.840 --> 0:34:27.239
<v Speaker 5>interesting because I had never met him when I worked

0:34:27.280 --> 0:34:30.080
<v Speaker 5>with him. I worked with a guy called Selassie, producer

0:34:30.320 --> 0:34:33.120
<v Speaker 5>who was working with Tom at the time, and they

0:34:33.120 --> 0:34:35.880
<v Speaker 5>had just done some random demos. One of the random

0:34:35.880 --> 0:34:38.360
<v Speaker 5>demos was Footsteps, like the beat as ray as it was,

0:34:38.400 --> 0:34:41.680
<v Speaker 5>and it had that thing that I am joying, and

0:34:42.520 --> 0:34:44.480
<v Speaker 5>I was like, keep all of this, keep all of

0:34:44.480 --> 0:34:47.239
<v Speaker 5>this and sendul this beat. I'm going off tonight, And

0:34:47.280 --> 0:34:49.600
<v Speaker 5>I said, I sent Selassie a voice note. That same

0:34:49.680 --> 0:34:53.239
<v Speaker 5>night the songs come out. It's obviously like blown up,

0:34:53.280 --> 0:34:56.920
<v Speaker 5>done what it's done. And I met Tom in a

0:34:56.960 --> 0:35:00.239
<v Speaker 5>smoking area of some random ass event and just hear

0:35:00.280 --> 0:35:04.360
<v Speaker 5>it off immediately like that was immediately my guy.

0:35:04.480 --> 0:35:05.120
<v Speaker 4>And that's what I'm saying.

0:35:05.200 --> 0:35:08.360
<v Speaker 5>I feel like life and the vibrations and energy just

0:35:08.440 --> 0:35:10.000
<v Speaker 5>forced people to connect, do you know what I mean?

0:35:10.080 --> 0:35:13.279
<v Speaker 5>Like Rich, I remember when I went to Richer's like

0:35:13.520 --> 0:35:17.359
<v Speaker 5>writing camp. It was like the biggest learning experience ever

0:35:17.480 --> 0:35:20.680
<v Speaker 5>because he is a master at work. He's literally a

0:35:20.719 --> 0:35:25.240
<v Speaker 5>master at work, and it's like you feel like you're

0:35:26.640 --> 0:35:32.240
<v Speaker 5>karate kid. Wait till you see mister Me's that's Rich

0:35:33.360 --> 0:35:33.839
<v Speaker 5>Who else?

0:35:33.960 --> 0:35:37.240
<v Speaker 2>Like what are those writing camps like? Because like I

0:35:37.280 --> 0:35:39.120
<v Speaker 2>a few years ago, I went to one out in

0:35:39.160 --> 0:35:42.480
<v Speaker 2>West London. It was actually for Justin Bieber Record, so

0:35:42.560 --> 0:35:47.160
<v Speaker 2>a different viable together but like effectively again, if people

0:35:47.160 --> 0:35:50.600
<v Speaker 2>don't know what a writing camp is offering in the

0:35:50.680 --> 0:35:52.919
<v Speaker 2>run up to somebody putting an album together, they'll put

0:35:53.000 --> 0:35:55.640
<v Speaker 2>it's basically a meeting of minds. It's put some heads together,

0:35:55.680 --> 0:35:57.320
<v Speaker 2>see what we can come up with and like spark

0:35:57.400 --> 0:36:00.279
<v Speaker 2>some ideas. Basically the one that I attended was in

0:36:00.320 --> 0:36:03.120
<v Speaker 2>a big It was like a residential studio, like an

0:36:03.120 --> 0:36:06.920
<v Speaker 2>old house, and imagine this mansion where in each different

0:36:07.000 --> 0:36:09.280
<v Speaker 2>room at this place, there was a couple of different

0:36:09.280 --> 0:36:12.160
<v Speaker 2>writers all getting together. You know, we're giving a kind

0:36:12.160 --> 0:36:15.439
<v Speaker 2>of theme, giving them some ideas, and said, right, let's

0:36:15.520 --> 0:36:19.040
<v Speaker 2>meet back again at lunchtime. See what we've all got,

0:36:19.280 --> 0:36:21.040
<v Speaker 2>See if there's something that we want to develop, and

0:36:21.080 --> 0:36:22.640
<v Speaker 2>then buy dinner time.

0:36:23.239 --> 0:36:26.040
<v Speaker 3>We've got a new song. How have you found that

0:36:26.120 --> 0:36:27.520
<v Speaker 3>experience of doing those things?

0:36:27.880 --> 0:36:30.560
<v Speaker 5>Wretch's one was the first one I went to, and

0:36:30.600 --> 0:36:32.600
<v Speaker 5>like that would be a slow process for him.

0:36:33.520 --> 0:36:34.480
<v Speaker 3>I can imagine that.

0:36:34.440 --> 0:36:38.239
<v Speaker 5>Would be intensely slow like his I think he had two.

0:36:38.280 --> 0:36:40.080
<v Speaker 5>I only went to one of them. But the one

0:36:40.120 --> 0:36:45.400
<v Speaker 5>I went to was play Deep Studios, Vinis an Angel

0:36:45.520 --> 0:36:47.640
<v Speaker 5>or King's Cross or something like that. I was like,

0:36:47.960 --> 0:36:53.080
<v Speaker 5>four might been four rooms a producer and every at

0:36:53.120 --> 0:36:56.520
<v Speaker 5>least maybe one or two producers in every room. Rioters

0:36:56.560 --> 0:37:00.480
<v Speaker 5>floating about in between each rooms, laying things down as

0:37:00.520 --> 0:37:03.960
<v Speaker 5>they go. And he literally walks into the room while

0:37:04.040 --> 0:37:06.640
<v Speaker 5>standing up and will wrap to the song, no pen,

0:37:06.760 --> 0:37:09.840
<v Speaker 5>no paper, wrap to the song on the spot. You

0:37:09.920 --> 0:37:12.759
<v Speaker 5>hand them like a microphone that you can hold in

0:37:12.800 --> 0:37:15.439
<v Speaker 5>his hand. He'll wrap a demo and leave the room,

0:37:15.480 --> 0:37:17.279
<v Speaker 5>go into the next room and wrap the next song.

0:37:17.600 --> 0:37:21.319
<v Speaker 5>And the song in this song room could be song

0:37:21.360 --> 0:37:24.960
<v Speaker 5>in this room could be a party song. Song in

0:37:24.960 --> 0:37:27.040
<v Speaker 5>the next room could be a deep song about him

0:37:27.080 --> 0:37:29.400
<v Speaker 5>and his mother or something like that. The one in

0:37:29.440 --> 0:37:30.799
<v Speaker 5>that one could be about him and his girl. The

0:37:30.840 --> 0:37:32.839
<v Speaker 5>one in that one could just be another party with him,

0:37:32.880 --> 0:37:36.759
<v Speaker 5>and he can do them simultaneously. And I think for

0:37:36.880 --> 0:37:40.399
<v Speaker 5>me that was like such a massive learning experience because

0:37:40.400 --> 0:37:44.200
<v Speaker 5>it was like it taught me to understand like first

0:37:44.440 --> 0:37:47.680
<v Speaker 5>set the vibe, get the vibe. Set it's not a

0:37:47.760 --> 0:37:50.319
<v Speaker 5>race to finish the tune. But if you could at

0:37:50.440 --> 0:37:53.160
<v Speaker 5>least set a good precedent for the tune, and you

0:37:53.239 --> 0:37:55.280
<v Speaker 5>know it's a banger, it will always be a banger.

0:37:55.280 --> 0:37:58.680
<v Speaker 5>You can't just not be a banger, won't they You

0:37:58.719 --> 0:38:01.319
<v Speaker 5>can go back in and really add the context and

0:38:01.360 --> 0:38:04.759
<v Speaker 5>at the depth. So that's been like one of the

0:38:04.800 --> 0:38:06.720
<v Speaker 5>things that I took into my process. At the moment,

0:38:06.760 --> 0:38:10.399
<v Speaker 5>it was just like set vibes vie vibe by vibe

0:38:10.440 --> 0:38:15.120
<v Speaker 5>now got too many vibes, but now we're just es. Yeah, Well,

0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:17.120
<v Speaker 5>like we were just were sitting there go and like, well,

0:38:19.239 --> 0:38:21.840
<v Speaker 5>I mean like we could drop like three albums today,

0:38:22.280 --> 0:38:25.279
<v Speaker 5>but like, we're just not going to We're just not

0:38:25.320 --> 0:38:27.440
<v Speaker 5>going to do that. I feel like you only get

0:38:27.520 --> 0:38:30.440
<v Speaker 5>X amount of chances at a body of work that

0:38:30.480 --> 0:38:32.520
<v Speaker 5>represents you, and I feel like people have lost the

0:38:34.200 --> 0:38:39.080
<v Speaker 5>that need to have a great body of work. Now

0:38:39.080 --> 0:38:41.839
<v Speaker 5>it's like how many songs can you fit? How many

0:38:41.840 --> 0:38:45.880
<v Speaker 5>of them will immediately be bangers and the rest of

0:38:45.920 --> 0:38:48.200
<v Speaker 5>them can we can generate streams off the back of

0:38:48.239 --> 0:38:49.480
<v Speaker 5>the ones that are Do.

0:38:49.440 --> 0:38:53.399
<v Speaker 2>You aspire to read interviews you in the past where

0:38:53.440 --> 0:38:56.080
<v Speaker 2>you say, when it's time to deliver a debut album

0:38:56.560 --> 0:38:58.080
<v Speaker 2>that it has to be the right body of work

0:38:58.120 --> 0:39:02.000
<v Speaker 2>that represents you. We just take your time over that

0:39:02.080 --> 0:39:05.400
<v Speaker 2>until it's the right thing. Or it's interesting hearing you

0:39:05.440 --> 0:39:08.279
<v Speaker 2>say that you you do aspire to want to do that,

0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:12.120
<v Speaker 2>because let's face it, like you know, the album as

0:39:12.160 --> 0:39:15.080
<v Speaker 2>a format, if that's what we're gonna call it, it's

0:39:15.160 --> 0:39:17.480
<v Speaker 2>not it's not necessity anymore, is it. You could you

0:39:17.520 --> 0:39:21.000
<v Speaker 2>could just forever just keep releasing bangers like individual genes,

0:39:21.920 --> 0:39:24.879
<v Speaker 2>So why do it? Where is the desire come from?

0:39:25.000 --> 0:39:29.960
<v Speaker 5>I feel like I've just like sunk into like ships,

0:39:30.000 --> 0:39:35.360
<v Speaker 5>the version of me that is like fucking incomplete belief

0:39:35.440 --> 0:39:40.600
<v Speaker 5>of like postmodernity and just the idea that like nothing

0:39:40.800 --> 0:39:45.200
<v Speaker 5>is new, it's all just things that have been done before.

0:39:45.560 --> 0:39:49.240
<v Speaker 5>And then on top of that, nothing is so nobody

0:39:49.239 --> 0:39:53.239
<v Speaker 5>wants to be labeled as anything, or nothing wants to

0:39:53.239 --> 0:39:56.840
<v Speaker 5>be labeled as anything because it creates too harsh of

0:39:56.840 --> 0:40:01.640
<v Speaker 5>a definition. And then box this sit and I might

0:40:01.760 --> 0:40:04.200
<v Speaker 5>never drop an album. It don't matter. It don't mean

0:40:04.239 --> 0:40:07.359
<v Speaker 5>people won't get music. But I feel like people really

0:40:07.360 --> 0:40:09.600
<v Speaker 5>go to ask themselves what is the point of.

0:40:09.640 --> 0:40:10.720
<v Speaker 4>Things these days?

0:40:11.080 --> 0:40:17.760
<v Speaker 5>Because I've never not gone to click somebody's music because

0:40:18.480 --> 0:40:21.120
<v Speaker 5>it was just the EP, it was just the album,

0:40:21.200 --> 0:40:22.879
<v Speaker 5>or it's just a mixtape. I want to hear it,

0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:26.400
<v Speaker 5>and if I like it from top to one, I'm

0:40:26.400 --> 0:40:27.680
<v Speaker 5>going to listen to it from top to one. If

0:40:27.680 --> 0:40:31.080
<v Speaker 5>I don't, I'm gonna separate anyway, So the album can

0:40:31.200 --> 0:40:34.400
<v Speaker 5>very quickly become three or four songs in somebody's.

0:40:34.040 --> 0:40:35.800
<v Speaker 4>Playlist the next day.

0:40:37.120 --> 0:40:40.360
<v Speaker 5>I control that there's nothing you can do, so like

0:40:40.480 --> 0:40:43.279
<v Speaker 5>even even now, even entering the new situation, and we've

0:40:43.320 --> 0:40:48.040
<v Speaker 5>got it's like just keep telling them like, yeah, the

0:40:48.040 --> 0:40:52.400
<v Speaker 5>album's coming, but for now we're doing this. So they're like,

0:40:52.880 --> 0:40:54.880
<v Speaker 5>is this the album? And I go, no, it's not

0:40:56.000 --> 0:40:59.919
<v Speaker 5>how we're going to market it. That's not the album. Huh,

0:41:00.600 --> 0:41:03.600
<v Speaker 5>that's that's it. It's not the album.

0:41:03.760 --> 0:41:09.080
<v Speaker 3>Okay, just keep going. I'll tell you when I'm ready.

0:41:09.239 --> 0:41:09.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, exactly.

0:41:10.600 --> 0:41:14.000
<v Speaker 2>It's been interesting and imagine possibly a bit frustrating from

0:41:14.040 --> 0:41:15.440
<v Speaker 2>your point of view, but I don't want to put

0:41:15.440 --> 0:41:19.680
<v Speaker 2>words in your mouth being sometimes held up in terms

0:41:19.719 --> 0:41:23.240
<v Speaker 2>of interviews and features and wherever it may be media

0:41:23.360 --> 0:41:27.520
<v Speaker 2>press about being a so called like political rapper making

0:41:27.520 --> 0:41:31.560
<v Speaker 2>political music. How frustrating can it be when you get

0:41:31.600 --> 0:41:36.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of tired with a brush when ultimately you're writing output,

0:41:36.600 --> 0:41:40.040
<v Speaker 2>be it songs or whatever, outlet of creativity that is

0:41:40.120 --> 0:41:42.719
<v Speaker 2>ultimately just a reflection of your experience.

0:41:43.520 --> 0:41:47.160
<v Speaker 5>Me, people get the bite size is that first, if

0:41:47.160 --> 0:41:49.759
<v Speaker 5>you don't know who I am at all, and you

0:41:49.840 --> 0:41:52.759
<v Speaker 5>go who's coady and someone has to loosely describe me,

0:41:53.719 --> 0:41:57.000
<v Speaker 5>they'd probably be like, oh, it makes and then I

0:41:57.080 --> 0:42:01.799
<v Speaker 5>get stuck and it's like, well, it's a bit like

0:42:03.080 --> 0:42:05.920
<v Speaker 5>then they get stuck again. Then then they just start

0:42:06.040 --> 0:42:08.640
<v Speaker 5>listing off things that they think sounds close to it.

0:42:09.560 --> 0:42:12.040
<v Speaker 5>Then they go but then it's not like rubbish. He's

0:42:12.040 --> 0:42:16.160
<v Speaker 5>not talking rubbish. It's like poetry. But so like is

0:42:16.200 --> 0:42:18.440
<v Speaker 5>it conscious. It's like, no, it's not conscious, but like

0:42:18.560 --> 0:42:20.480
<v Speaker 5>he's not afraid. Like he'll talk about things that political.

0:42:20.520 --> 0:42:23.960
<v Speaker 5>I'll say it's political. It be like, well, yeah, but

0:42:24.120 --> 0:42:26.920
<v Speaker 5>now you know, I mean, like the songs that I

0:42:26.960 --> 0:42:31.680
<v Speaker 5>wrote that were like more politically charged never had political intent.

0:42:32.480 --> 0:42:36.560
<v Speaker 5>So to me, they're not political songs if you are

0:42:37.840 --> 0:42:40.560
<v Speaker 5>look at the context in which most of these songs

0:42:40.600 --> 0:42:43.839
<v Speaker 5>were written. They were all written were purpose. So I'm

0:42:43.840 --> 0:42:47.080
<v Speaker 5>guessing the ones that people list off, Quime and Krima,

0:42:47.800 --> 0:42:52.160
<v Speaker 5>crime and Chrima I wrote because at the time, that

0:42:52.239 --> 0:42:55.000
<v Speaker 5>whole project in the context was about me becoming closer

0:42:55.040 --> 0:42:57.480
<v Speaker 5>with my dad and understanding more about Ghana and his

0:42:58.000 --> 0:43:00.839
<v Speaker 5>process of migration. So as I was turning twenty three

0:43:00.880 --> 0:43:03.799
<v Speaker 5>on that project when he was twenty three, that was

0:43:03.840 --> 0:43:07.000
<v Speaker 5>when Gharnaways made it independent, and he was standing there

0:43:07.400 --> 0:43:10.760
<v Speaker 5>at the speech when when Crimean Kremer said today Ghana

0:43:10.840 --> 0:43:11.480
<v Speaker 5>is free forever.

0:43:12.480 --> 0:43:14.160
<v Speaker 4>So that is an important moment to him.

0:43:14.480 --> 0:43:17.560
<v Speaker 5>So now I'm like, well, that seems like a pretty

0:43:17.600 --> 0:43:18.240
<v Speaker 5>big moment.

0:43:18.280 --> 0:43:18.800
<v Speaker 4>In history.

0:43:18.840 --> 0:43:21.399
<v Speaker 5>How come I don't know that much by it? I'm going, well,

0:43:21.440 --> 0:43:23.040
<v Speaker 5>obviously it won't talk to me in school, so now

0:43:23.040 --> 0:43:25.400
<v Speaker 5>I have to educate myself. So in the process of

0:43:25.520 --> 0:43:27.880
<v Speaker 5>educating myself on who he is and his policies and

0:43:27.960 --> 0:43:32.480
<v Speaker 5>all the things that happened, I see likenesses and I

0:43:32.520 --> 0:43:34.440
<v Speaker 5>feel like, maybe, rather like if I could be in

0:43:34.440 --> 0:43:38.239
<v Speaker 5>his head, what would I feel like When I said,

0:43:38.239 --> 0:43:39.759
<v Speaker 5>they felt like they're twenty mon time, I feel like

0:43:39.800 --> 0:43:41.560
<v Speaker 5>I'm Crimean Kreman. I was like literally, it was like,

0:43:41.600 --> 0:43:44.439
<v Speaker 5>I'm learning about this guy and I feel like him,

0:43:44.480 --> 0:43:47.360
<v Speaker 5>Like I feel like I have the potential to really

0:43:47.400 --> 0:43:50.480
<v Speaker 5>spark a change for free thinking, and not in a

0:43:50.560 --> 0:43:56.879
<v Speaker 5>Kanye sense, but just like actually just like thinking. Then

0:43:56.920 --> 0:43:59.560
<v Speaker 5>it come out and it was like political song and

0:43:59.600 --> 0:44:03.440
<v Speaker 5>I was like okay, and then what like open hand.

0:44:04.719 --> 0:44:11.040
<v Speaker 4>Open Hand I wrote? I wrote at the time of.

0:44:12.680 --> 0:44:16.640
<v Speaker 5>The elections, I think when just before we got made

0:44:16.640 --> 0:44:20.520
<v Speaker 5>into that both sides and what's the one the coalition?

0:44:21.080 --> 0:44:24.279
<v Speaker 3>So we're talking like what must be five years ago?

0:44:24.400 --> 0:44:25.239
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, ages ago?

0:44:25.280 --> 0:44:27.560
<v Speaker 5>I wrote open Handed ages ago, and people still reference

0:44:27.600 --> 0:44:29.920
<v Speaker 5>it as he's a political artist. I guess I was

0:44:29.960 --> 0:44:34.080
<v Speaker 5>five years ago. Yeah, coalition just happened. But for me,

0:44:34.440 --> 0:44:36.640
<v Speaker 5>that's when I started to see it was almost like

0:44:36.640 --> 0:44:40.040
<v Speaker 5>I predicted the future. I saw, I like four saw

0:44:40.160 --> 0:44:42.759
<v Speaker 5>all of these seeds of hate that will grow and

0:44:42.800 --> 0:44:45.440
<v Speaker 5>grow and grow and grow and grow to the point

0:44:45.480 --> 0:44:48.760
<v Speaker 5>where now politics is about separating people. And I wanted

0:44:48.760 --> 0:44:50.719
<v Speaker 5>to make a song that people could use as like

0:44:50.760 --> 0:44:52.680
<v Speaker 5>a manta for not believing in that.

0:44:54.640 --> 0:44:56.759
<v Speaker 4>And yeah, that was five years ago.

0:44:56.840 --> 0:45:00.719
<v Speaker 5>Comen Kruml was like maybe three three years ago or

0:45:00.760 --> 0:45:04.239
<v Speaker 5>something like that. I'll say politically like political things like

0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:06.359
<v Speaker 5>I'm not afraid, like I know what world I live in,

0:45:06.760 --> 0:45:08.960
<v Speaker 5>and really music is my last outlet to just like

0:45:09.560 --> 0:45:10.640
<v Speaker 5>say what I fucking feel.

0:45:11.160 --> 0:45:13.120
<v Speaker 4>But I'm not I'm not. I'm not here to.

0:45:13.160 --> 0:45:19.960
<v Speaker 5>Be like the token political artists because certain political issues

0:45:20.480 --> 0:45:25.319
<v Speaker 5>again that's not at all political issues affect me. But

0:45:25.560 --> 0:45:27.520
<v Speaker 5>some are going to come to my end way quicker

0:45:27.560 --> 0:45:29.960
<v Speaker 5>than others because of the experience.

0:45:29.560 --> 0:45:30.919
<v Speaker 4>I live in my day to day life.

0:45:32.080 --> 0:45:34.560
<v Speaker 5>So if they come out, I want them to come

0:45:34.560 --> 0:45:38.279
<v Speaker 5>out as easy as conversation, Because in conversation people might

0:45:38.320 --> 0:45:42.120
<v Speaker 5>talk about political things, it doesn't necessarily make them instantly

0:45:42.160 --> 0:45:44.480
<v Speaker 5>a political person. You feel me, it just means we

0:45:44.520 --> 0:45:46.160
<v Speaker 5>all have existing it's political.

0:45:46.600 --> 0:45:49.000
<v Speaker 2>It came up in that conversation you had with Spike, lying, yeah,

0:45:49.040 --> 0:45:51.560
<v Speaker 2>but you both put it really nicely. Everybody's making a

0:45:51.560 --> 0:45:53.600
<v Speaker 2>political decision when they make art and share it with

0:45:53.640 --> 0:45:58.080
<v Speaker 2>other people. Even if you decide that it doesn't address

0:45:58.120 --> 0:45:59.920
<v Speaker 2>politics directly, you're still making.

0:45:59.719 --> 0:46:03.360
<v Speaker 5>That Even if you decided not to vote, it's a

0:46:03.360 --> 0:46:04.160
<v Speaker 5>political decision.

0:46:04.239 --> 0:46:08.240
<v Speaker 2>We listen really good to chat to you. We should

0:46:08.640 --> 0:46:10.880
<v Speaker 2>maybe we should stop this podcast and get brainstorm in

0:46:10.920 --> 0:46:13.000
<v Speaker 2>our documentary series.

0:46:13.040 --> 0:46:19.600
<v Speaker 3>Series on where should We Go First? Kenyan Grime. Okay,

0:46:19.640 --> 0:46:21.359
<v Speaker 3>so just watch this space that's going to be coming.

0:46:22.440 --> 0:46:23.799
<v Speaker 3>And thanks for joining us.

0:46:23.760 --> 0:46:26.200
<v Speaker 4>On the podcast. Thank you for having me, man appreciate it.

0:46:34.719 --> 0:46:38.200
<v Speaker 1>Midnight Chat is a Loud and Quiet podcast. Music courtesy

0:46:38.200 --> 0:46:41.719
<v Speaker 1>of gold Panda. Search Midnight Chats on iTunes for more

0:46:41.760 --> 0:46:45.440
<v Speaker 1>episodes and to subscribe. For more information, visit Loud and

0:46:45.520 --> 0:46:47.960
<v Speaker 1>Quiet dot com