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Speaker 1: Podcast Network, Available on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, leaving this message
Speaker 1: for Katie Curic. This is for this week's episode of Turnout.
Speaker 1: I'm leaving my voting story. We're finally on the other
Speaker 1: side of the presidential election, and it's been, as promised,
Speaker 1: unprecedented because of highly engaged voters like you. I live
Speaker 1: here in Rule Tennessee, just outside Nashville. I'm calling you
Speaker 1: from Connecticut, Virginia, Chicago, Illinois, and Santie, Ohio. You turned
Speaker 1: out in record numbers Dale, North Carolina, Michigan, Denver, Colorado, Rooklyn.
Speaker 1: When all is said and done, is projected to have
Speaker 1: the highest voter turnout rate in more than a century.
Speaker 1: A game mail from Kentucky. I have some special health needs.
Speaker 1: I'm blind. To live in the battleground state. I live
Speaker 1: in the suburb. I have voted both parties in the past.
Speaker 1: My husband and I we voted. It was great to
Speaker 1: hear from so many of you this week who called
Speaker 1: in to share your voting stories. This really is a
Speaker 1: moment in history that will be talking about and analyzing
Speaker 1: for years to come. I'm nineteen years old and this
Speaker 1: is my first time voting in a presidential election. With
Speaker 1: COVID rates on the rise, I decided to vote by mail.
Speaker 1: We voted abstince T about two weeks ago and dropped
Speaker 1: it off at our city clerks box. I have a
Speaker 1: twenty year old son who rushed home from college to
Speaker 1: get his ballot in the box. I voted early this year,
Speaker 1: back in September three weeks ago, two weeks ago, so
Speaker 1: I actually voted in person. In person on my birthday.
Speaker 1: My man ballot actually got lost in the mail, but
Speaker 1: after runing to my local election office, I was able
Speaker 1: to do a limited voting and there was no wait.
Speaker 1: We were in and out within under ten minutes, simple, easy, breezy.
Speaker 1: Uh five minutes, but the line was moving smoothly. Had
Speaker 1: to wait in line for forty five minutes, about two hours.
Speaker 1: I was just glad I was able to vote early
Speaker 1: and get it out of the way. I wore my
Speaker 1: Ruth Fatikins for a T shirt. It was an excellent experience.
Speaker 1: Kudos to the arena and the NBA for making it happen.
Speaker 1: As a member of a marginalized community, it was just
Speaker 1: good to like have my vote count and my voice heard.
Speaker 1: As cliche as it sounds, there's a lot of places
Speaker 1: in my life where you know, um, I don't always
Speaker 1: feel that way. I was able to check online tracked electronically,
Speaker 1: so I know that my local Board of Elections has
Speaker 1: already received my ballot. But I received a text message
Speaker 1: from the Register of Voters the very next day confirming
Speaker 1: that they were inter seat of my ballot. I'm good
Speaker 1: to go and that it will be counted. It felt
Speaker 1: so so great to finally be able to vote, and
Speaker 1: especially in such a critical effection. I'm Katie Curic and
Speaker 1: this is Turnout. It's Friday, November six and today on
Speaker 1: the podcast a conversation I just had over Instagram Live
Speaker 1: with Brian Goldsmith. Now, Brian, many of you know, is
Speaker 1: a really good friend of mine. We used to do
Speaker 1: a podcast together. He worked with me at CBS, later
Speaker 1: at Yahoo. He helped me enormously prepare for my Sarah
Speaker 1: Palin interview my infamous or famous interview, depending on your perspective.
Speaker 1: And he's my go to guy whenever I have a
Speaker 1: question about national politics. In fact, I tease him because
Speaker 1: he was grounded in high school for sneaking out of
Speaker 1: his room to watch c SPAN. Yeah, he's that big
Speaker 1: of a political nerd. So I thought it would be
Speaker 1: really instructive and helpf for us to do a post
Speaker 1: mortem on what happened this week. And since the news
Speaker 1: is changing so fast and furiously, we wanted you to
Speaker 1: know that we recorded this conversation at six pm Eastern
Speaker 1: Time again on Friday. So enjoy. Let's talk about the election, Okay,
Speaker 1: so just give us a quick update. It feels like like,
Speaker 1: when are they going to call this thing? Um help us.
Speaker 1: I don't know why they haven't called it. I mean
Speaker 1: I think I know why, but it doesn't really make
Speaker 1: sense because if your Fox or the A P and
Speaker 1: you've already called Arizona, Um, Biden wins the presidency just
Speaker 1: with Nevada. Nobody who's looked at the numbers thinks that
Speaker 1: Nevada is going to flip back to Trump. So with
Speaker 1: Nevada and Arizona Biden hits to seventy, you know that's it.
Speaker 1: Game over, fat ladies, sung, et cetera. Okay, if you're
Speaker 1: all the other networks you have, haven't called Arizona. Um,
Speaker 1: take a look at Pennsylvania, where Biden's lead is pretty
Speaker 1: substantial and is getting bigger, not smaller. Now, is there
Speaker 1: like an insane scenario with provisional ballots um contradicting you know,
Speaker 1: the historic patterns of previous provisional ballots, contradicting the counties
Speaker 1: from which they came. Yes, I mean I also could
Speaker 1: be struck by lightning right here, right now. That is
Speaker 1: conceivably possible. But Biden is gonna win Pennsylvania. And once
Speaker 1: you've accepted that, you know, you get over to seventy,
Speaker 1: even under the count that ABC, NBC, CBS, and CNN
Speaker 1: are keeping. And started to interrupt Bryant. But Arizona, it
Speaker 1: seems I haven't really looked at it in the last hour.
Speaker 1: I went to the grocery store instead. Arizona is it
Speaker 1: seems like it's tightening up? Um, isn't it a little bit?
Speaker 1: And I guess maybe in the event that Arizona gets
Speaker 1: too close to call um That's why maybe the networks,
Speaker 1: as you said, are waiting for Pennsylvania. So, but he
Speaker 1: doesn't need Arizona. So even if you were to assume
Speaker 1: he doesn't need Arizona, but what I'm saying is maybe
Speaker 1: they're waiting for Pennsylvania, where he has a more sizeable lead,
Speaker 1: since they didn't call Arizona and not that Arizona. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Is Arizona a little up for grabs? I
Speaker 1: don't think so. I mean, everybody serious who's looked at
Speaker 1: this has said that, you know, Biden's lead may narrow
Speaker 1: a bit. It's I mean, it's over one point now,
Speaker 1: it's one point three, um, and it may shrink a
Speaker 1: little bit. But I don't think anyone expects Trump to
Speaker 1: overtake Biden in Arizona. But okay, so let's but then
Speaker 1: even if you take even if you say Arizona is
Speaker 1: too uncertain. And that's why NBCCBS, ABC, CNN have not
Speaker 1: called Arizona, you don't you know, you go over here
Speaker 1: to Pennsylvania and Biden's leader is about fourteen thousand votes
Speaker 1: and growing, and then you know, okay, I'm gonna dip
Speaker 1: down into that you know, where the rest of the
Speaker 1: votes are Um, you know, you still have a bunch
Speaker 1: of Philadelphia votes yet to count. Yes, you have some provisionals,
Speaker 1: but they are not going to be strongly Republican enough
Speaker 1: to overcome the eight twenty margin that Biden is getting
Speaker 1: from a lot of votes out of Pennsylvania. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think there's actually, you know, most people think that
Speaker 1: Biden's margin in Pennsylvania is going to be significantly bigger
Speaker 1: in the end than Trump's margin was in that state
Speaker 1: four years ago when all the Republicans were proclaiming a landslide.
Speaker 1: You know, was this election a huge repudiation of Donald Trump?
Speaker 1: When you see that the Republicans gained seats in the House.
Speaker 1: When you see that they it looks right now with
Speaker 1: a Georgia runoff expected to george to runoffs expected, uh,
Speaker 1: that they're holding the Senate majority. But yet the president
Speaker 1: uh wasn't able to pull it off. So was this
Speaker 1: really about Donald Trump and Donald Trump only? Well, it
Speaker 1: certainly was not a huge repudiation of Republicans. Um. Republicans
Speaker 1: down ballot, you know, for the most part, seemed to
Speaker 1: outperform the top of the ticket a little bit. UM.
Speaker 1: Often you'll see the opposite um and In terms of
Speaker 1: the presidential race itself, Uh, Trump performed pretty respectively. I mean,
Speaker 1: he won Ohio, he won Florida, he won Florida pretty comfortably. UM,
Speaker 1: he won uh North Carolina. Um. He kept it close
Speaker 1: in a number of the other key battleground states. Now,
Speaker 1: in terms of the popular vote, it's not going to
Speaker 1: be that close. I think Biden's on track to in
Speaker 1: the popular vote by five or six or even seven million.
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a bigger popular vote margin
Speaker 1: than Obama's over Romney in twelve. Um, But the electoral college,
Speaker 1: which is where this has really fought and decided, was
Speaker 1: was a bit closer. You know. I think Biden's on
Speaker 1: track for three oh six, which is precisely the numbers
Speaker 1: we've discussed that Trump got four years ago. So I
Speaker 1: think there's gonna be some soul searching, frankly, in both
Speaker 1: parties about you know, what they got right and what
Speaker 1: they got wrong, and it's it's really a mixed bag
Speaker 1: for both You're right, I mean, I think President Trump
Speaker 1: did much better than a lot of people expected, and
Speaker 1: I think it just underscored once again how divided this
Speaker 1: country is that so many people still really felt more
Speaker 1: comfortable with Donald Trump than Joe Biden for a host
Speaker 1: of reasons. What primarily do you believe were the reasons, Brian,
Speaker 1: I think it was primarily ideological. I think there were
Speaker 1: a number of voters who were uncomfortable with Trump personally
Speaker 1: and temperamentally. They had doubts about his capacity for the job,
Speaker 1: but they were convinced, based on their own predispositions to
Speaker 1: be kind of center or center right, that the Democrats
Speaker 1: were a little too extreme, that Biden was a trojan
Speaker 1: horse for the radical left. I mean, I worked in
Speaker 1: Florida this cycle, and you know, we did seven or
Speaker 1: eight focus groups with Trump voters who were considering voting
Speaker 1: for Biden, and that argument resonated with them. They were
Speaker 1: scared by what they saw, you know, that the media
Speaker 1: was focusing heavily on Bernie and Warren and AOC. You know,
Speaker 1: they had they had gone through this kind of summer
Speaker 1: of racially charged protest, of riots, of um, you know,
Speaker 1: defund the police, which is perhaps the worst political slogan
Speaker 1: in a mirror in history, with the possible exception of socialists, UM.
Speaker 1: And they heard both those things, you know, and I
Speaker 1: thought it was striking Abigail Spanburger, who's a congresswoman from
Speaker 1: your home state or home commonwealth. I should call it right. Um,
Speaker 1: she was on this call with other House Democrats kind
Speaker 1: of hashing over the election return she barely survived. You know,
Speaker 1: she's from a tough red to blue district, and she erupted.
Speaker 1: And she's a pretty mild mannered, you know, national security professional,
Speaker 1: moderate Democrat, and and she just said, you know, unless
Speaker 1: we exercise socialism, defund the police, this kind of hard
Speaker 1: left um stench from our party. Um, we're going to
Speaker 1: get you know, bleeping walloped or something to that effect.
Speaker 1: Uh in two years. And it is a problem. I
Speaker 1: worked at congressional race which is still too close to
Speaker 1: call in a Republican district, and it in California, And
Speaker 1: what are the Republican independent groups choose to focus on
Speaker 1: in the last two weeks of the campaign. It was
Speaker 1: defund the police. It was socialism, it was riots, it
Speaker 1: was anarchy. And I think for a lot of you know,
Speaker 1: rightly or wrongly, for a lot of white swing voters
Speaker 1: in suburban communities, that whole line of argument was really scary.
Speaker 1: And I think, and you also saw finally in the
Speaker 1: exit polling the voters who decided at the end, just
Speaker 1: as in broke for Trump. Now we'll see how the
Speaker 1: exit poll evolves as it's kind of reweighted and adjusted
Speaker 1: as we go. But I think that's pretty significant too,
Speaker 1: And I think that's probably a word of warning for
Speaker 1: Joe Biden and Kamala Harris in terms of how they
Speaker 1: approach governing. If in fact, Joe Biden is elected as
Speaker 1: it appears, he will be uh that when it comes
Speaker 1: to you know, holding on of progressive principles is one
Speaker 1: thing like healthcare pre you know, fixing healthcare pre existing conditions,
Speaker 1: even universal healthcare, potentially something like the Green New Deal,
Speaker 1: as long as it doesn't put a ton of people
Speaker 1: out of work. I mean, I think all those things
Speaker 1: are going to have to be seen through a new lens,
Speaker 1: don't you. Uh Not that they're not important issues to tackle,
Speaker 1: but it has to be done carefully, right yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: And Biden was thoughtful during the campaign about distancing himself
Speaker 1: from some of these ideas. He did not endorse the
Speaker 1: Green New Deal. He said he had his own plan.
Speaker 1: He uh publicly repeatedly broke from defund the police. He
Speaker 1: said rioters should be prosecuted. Um, and he needed to
Speaker 1: do all of those things. Um. The question is why
Speaker 1: did he need to do all of those things. Why
Speaker 1: was that even a conversation that was happening. And it
Speaker 1: was because some activists who were almost exclusively from deep
Speaker 1: blue urban areas. We're pushing those issues to the detriment
Speaker 1: of politicians who had to compete on much less friendly terrain.
Speaker 1: And in order for the Democrats to govern uh, to
Speaker 1: win the Senate, to have a significant majority in the House,
Speaker 1: they got to win a lot of areas that are
Speaker 1: center center right in this country, and this stuff is challenging.
Speaker 1: I think that Claire McCaskill talked about that this morning.
Speaker 1: I saw her saying that the progressive wing of the
Speaker 1: party has to appreciate people who are running in much
Speaker 1: more conservative areas. I thought about my sister who was
Speaker 1: running for lieutenant governor with Mark Warner before she was
Speaker 1: diagnosed with cancer and had to drop out of the race.
Speaker 1: But she was really good at kind of I mean,
Speaker 1: she was quite a moderate Democrat of of working with
Speaker 1: people in Charlottesville, but also in larger Alba Marle County,
Speaker 1: which was quite know had a lot of conservative voters.
Speaker 1: There as well. And you know, I think sort of
Speaker 1: we talked about it last night, Brian, sort of cancel
Speaker 1: culture and this self righteous smugness that you're an idiot
Speaker 1: if you don't see things my way, um, which I
Speaker 1: think can can feel like it's coming from uber uber
Speaker 1: progressives can be very off putting to more moderate voters.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can believe two things at the same time.
Speaker 1: You can believe there is a history of systemic racism
Speaker 1: in this country, that systemic racism is a problem here
Speaker 1: now today that has to be addressed, that there needs
Speaker 1: to be more economic opportunity. Those are majority positions. Black
Speaker 1: Lives Matter has a majority favorability rating in the country.
Speaker 1: So you don't want to overlearn the lesson. You know,
Speaker 1: voters of color are the core of the Democratic Party.
Speaker 1: You don't want to push them away. But you also
Speaker 1: don't want to push away, Uh, the seventy of the
Speaker 1: electorate that is white. Um, and that feels like, um,
Speaker 1: they're being blamed. Um, they're being excluded, they're being chastise
Speaker 1: or school You know. I don't know whether I told
Speaker 1: you this, Brian, but I saw I feel the same
Speaker 1: way that it is possible everything has become so black
Speaker 1: white left right that you can you can want to
Speaker 1: reform the police department and feel that that it's patently
Speaker 1: unfair that black men are uh subjected to profiling and
Speaker 1: police brutality much more often than white people. You can
Speaker 1: also respect and appreciate what the police do and support
Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter. And there was a ben diagram that
Speaker 1: Billy Jene King put on her Instagram. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I told you this. It might have been David Brooks.
Speaker 1: I was talking to. I get all you guys mixed up,
Speaker 1: used for each other all the time, so anti semitic
Speaker 1: of you, Katie in the middle. In the middle, it
Speaker 1: said me, and it was Billy Know And I thought, yeah,
Speaker 1: why why do we have to necessarily pick sides and
Speaker 1: say you're either pro police or pro black Lives Matter?
Speaker 1: And I guess a lot of um, you know, activists
Speaker 1: will say, well, you can't be both. But I think
Speaker 1: that's honestly where a lot of people are. You know,
Speaker 1: they want to respect and appreciate good policing and good
Speaker 1: officers and also help them be better officers and weed
Speaker 1: out bad officers. And you know, but as somebody who
Speaker 1: is not a black person. You know, I have a
Speaker 1: different outlook and a different life experience, so I cannot necessarily, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, appreciate what it's like to be a black
Speaker 1: man in America, and so I understand the anger that
Speaker 1: has been built up over years and years and years
Speaker 1: of racial profiling and just late you know, out and
Speaker 1: out racism. Anyway, I completely agree with that. But let
Speaker 1: me just say, if you listen to the voice is
Speaker 1: of black people, uh and Latinos, support for defund the
Speaker 1: police was actually significantly less among those groups than among
Speaker 1: the white left. This is uh more of a kind
Speaker 1: of white elite left issue than it is among actual
Speaker 1: black and brown voters. Um. You know, my favorite example
Speaker 1: of this is the term latin x um, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, the very kind of hip woke term for
Speaker 1: Latinos and Latinos in this country. The only problem with
Speaker 1: it is if you actually listen to Latinos and Latinos Hispanics,
Speaker 1: they identify those terms with those terms, they understand those terms.
Speaker 1: They don't know what latin x is. And Reuben Gayego,
Speaker 1: who's a Hispanic member of Congress from working class Latino
Speaker 1: district in Arizona, the day after the election, tweeted, you
Speaker 1: know one thing we've got to start doing, uh if
Speaker 1: we want to win over more Hispanic voters or Latino voters,
Speaker 1: is stop using the term latin X because they don't
Speaker 1: understand it. Q did a pull that showed that only
Speaker 1: three percent of Americans actually, I think it was three
Speaker 1: percent of Latinos had ever heard the term or used
Speaker 1: the term latin X. So to me, that's like exhibit
Speaker 1: a of the disconnect sometimes between you know what our
Speaker 1: note is like extremely online people who are primarily upscale
Speaker 1: and white and urban, and the voters the Democrats need
Speaker 1: to win. Hey, it's Chuck Wicks from Love Country Talk
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Speaker 1: So let's talk about some other uh lessons that we've
Speaker 1: learned here. So we've realized that that the socialism message,
Speaker 1: the antisocialism message, really resonated with a lot of voters.
Speaker 1: What about the economy? Do you think that the Biden
Speaker 1: campaign made a strong enough connection between when getting COVID nineteen,
Speaker 1: getting the pandemic under control, and jump starting the economy.
Speaker 1: I think they tried. Biden gave a number of speeches
Speaker 1: and interviews on this topic. UM. I think they were
Speaker 1: aware of the challenge. I'm not going to fault what
Speaker 1: they did or didn't do, but the net result was insufficient. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, even coming off the worst economic collapse in history,
Speaker 1: even with the worst jobs record of any president since Hoover.
Speaker 1: You know, Trump went into election day with a consistent
Speaker 1: advantage on who do you trust to handle the economy? UM,
Speaker 1: and that that was a problem. You know, the economy
Speaker 1: is usually one of the biggest issues, if not the
Speaker 1: biggest issue. I believe that once all the exit poll
Speaker 1: data is kind of weighted and compiled, we will see
Speaker 1: that it's the biggest issue again. And and Democrats cannot
Speaker 1: lose on the economy. That's kind of the core of
Speaker 1: of of of who we are. We're fighting for more
Speaker 1: economic opportunity. And I sometimes worry, or at least I
Speaker 1: worried over the course of the Trump presidency that a
Speaker 1: number of Democrats were so distracted by the horror show
Speaker 1: of Trump UM that the message kind of boiled down
Speaker 1: to this is not who we are. America is better
Speaker 1: than this. Trump's behavior is abominable. And a lot of
Speaker 1: people would agree with that, and then they would still
Speaker 1: support Trump because they thought that Trump was more able
Speaker 1: to deliver economic improvements for them, um, in their lives.
Speaker 1: And and so you know, a huge focus for Joe
Speaker 1: Biden from day one has got to be um helping
Speaker 1: people rebuild economically, helping the country rebuild economically. And and
Speaker 1: this leads, unfortunately to the discussion about you know, in
Speaker 1: all likelihood, Democrats are not going to have the Senate,
Speaker 1: and it's going to be very, very difficult for Democrats
Speaker 1: to get things done legislatively. Having said that, as I
Speaker 1: said last night, is there a chance because of Biden's
Speaker 1: personal relationships with some of these folks that it will
Speaker 1: just be less rancorous and it will um or do
Speaker 1: you think they're going to be complete obstructionists? You and I?
Speaker 1: Of course, I interviewed Mitch McConnell at Yahoo and asked
Speaker 1: him about saying, as soon as Barack Obama was elected,
Speaker 1: we're going to spend you know, our our number one
Speaker 1: job for the Republican Party is to make sure he
Speaker 1: isn't re elected, which you know, not even a honeymoon
Speaker 1: period of saying what can we do together? In a course,
Speaker 1: healthcare pass with not one Republican vote, and so um,
Speaker 1: you know, are you do you have any optimism that
Speaker 1: after an exhausting four years, that the parties possibly could
Speaker 1: work together. I think it is possible on a few
Speaker 1: issues that a few Republicans, you know, Susan Collins or
Speaker 1: meant Romney or you know, Republicans without any kind of
Speaker 1: national political ambitions, Republicans who are not afraid of their base,
Speaker 1: Republicans who do you know, feel a sense of responsibility
Speaker 1: to the country. Um, you know, may work with him
Speaker 1: on those things. But I hope I'm wrong. I think
Speaker 1: by and large what the Obama presidency taught us is
Speaker 1: that the Republicans, for the most part, have decided that
Speaker 1: the best political strategy is to oppose the Democratic president
Speaker 1: at every turn. And therefore, when the Democratic president can't
Speaker 1: get certain things done um and gets no bipartisan support,
Speaker 1: the Republicans are able to blame him for those things,
Speaker 1: and voters blame the president for those things. So you know, Obama,
Speaker 1: I think, over and over again, was willing to meet
Speaker 1: the Republicans halfway, sometimes even more than that. They weren't
Speaker 1: willing in many cases to move an inch. And yet
Speaker 1: the voters blamed Obama for being unable to produce you know,
Speaker 1: bipartisan legislative successes. So it's a kind of a cynical strategy,
Speaker 1: of course, but it's an effective one. And I think
Speaker 1: you know, McConnell and most of the Senate Republicans are
Speaker 1: going to look very quickly too, when they have the
Speaker 1: opportunity to expand their majority potentially in the Senate, to
Speaker 1: win back the House, which is far more possible today
Speaker 1: than it looked, you know, before this election, and I
Speaker 1: think the obstruction strategy is going to feel like the
Speaker 1: right strategy to them. And also with the runoffs, if
Speaker 1: the two Democrats win in Georgia, and you were saying
Speaker 1: before in another conversation we had that turnout is very difficult, uh,
Speaker 1: when you don't have a presidential election, so it might
Speaker 1: be more difficult. Although Stacy Abrahams has built quite an
Speaker 1: organization in Georgia, and I'm sure we'll be working very
Speaker 1: hard for these for these Senate races, It's not impossible.
Speaker 1: I think there's a chance. I do think there's a chance.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, Biden's gonna win Georgia's so the
Speaker 1: votes are there. Um, But you know, do all those
Speaker 1: votes from a from a presidential election turnout in January
Speaker 1: for a Senate runoff, Maybe it's possible. Um. If I
Speaker 1: had to bet money, I would bet that the you know,
Speaker 1: the Republicans tend to turn out more Republicans historically do
Speaker 1: better in these off your elections because they show up
Speaker 1: UM over and over and over again. And Democrats tend
Speaker 1: to be tend to vote more intermittently, UM, and mostly
Speaker 1: in presidential years. UM. And so you know, Biden certainly
Speaker 1: knows the stakes. UM. I don't think they're gonna want
Speaker 1: for money. I think Act Blue will funnel you know,
Speaker 1: millions and millions of dollars to these two you know,
Speaker 1: very impressive, attractive Democratic candidates. Uh. But I just I
Speaker 1: think it's it's a heavy lift. But but you know,
Speaker 1: we should try. We should certainly try. But I'm trying
Speaker 1: to give you honest analysis about what I think the
Speaker 1: likelihood is. By the way, a lot of people are
Speaker 1: asking about Kamala Harris's Senate seat. Brian, Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 1: I was just talking about this actually, UM on a
Speaker 1: on a different interview, And I think, Um, I think
Speaker 1: there are two front runners UM Newsom, the governor of California,
Speaker 1: gets to pick uh, commalist successor Vice President elect Harris.
Speaker 1: In my view, UM, and UH, I think those are
Speaker 1: Karen Bass, who was a runner up for the VP slot,
Speaker 1: who is an enormously impressive person, a master legislator. UM.
Speaker 1: The first black woman speaker of the California Assembly. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I know her, I like her. Should be
Speaker 1: a terrific choice. UM. And the and and by the way,
Speaker 1: you then get another black woman in the Senate to
Speaker 1: replace the only black woman in the Senate. Now. The
Speaker 1: second choice, who I think is probably more likely to
Speaker 1: get picked is Alex Padilla, who is California's Secretary of State,
Speaker 1: who would be the first Latino Senator ever from California. UM.
Speaker 1: That is, you know, hard to believe, isn't it. It
Speaker 1: is hard to believe. And we're a majority minority state.
Speaker 1: Latinos are actually, by proportion of population, the biggest group
Speaker 1: in California, slightly edging out whites. UM, but in terms
Speaker 1: of voters have been quite underrepresented over the years. And
Speaker 1: I think, Um, the governor feels a deep sense of history.
Speaker 1: He also goes back a long way with Padilla, who
Speaker 1: actually and and the six junkies watching this will appreciate it.
Speaker 1: When Newsom ran for governor in the primaries against Jerry
Speaker 1: Brown ten years ago, Alex Padilla was actually the chairman
Speaker 1: of Newsom's campaign. So they go back a long way.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, and he's very impressive, and
Speaker 1: I think, you know, if I had to bet, he
Speaker 1: would probably get picked. Let's talk about turnout. Uh, I
Speaker 1: understand this is going to be the largest turnout in
Speaker 1: something like one hundred years. Uh. And um, I think
Speaker 1: people were more, perhaps more engaged in in this election
Speaker 1: than they have in any election of my lifetime certainly. Uh.
Speaker 1: Do you have any idea about the turnout numbers. Did
Speaker 1: a lot of young people come out and vote, did
Speaker 1: a lot of seniors? Or is it hard to tell
Speaker 1: until all the mail in ballots are are are accounted
Speaker 1: and we can really analyze the people who voted. It's
Speaker 1: hard to tell accurately demographic by demographic. But I can't
Speaker 1: say overall turn out his way up. We know that,
Speaker 1: I mean, and on both sides, which is I think
Speaker 1: a surprise to a lot of people. People were expecting
Speaker 1: a blue surge, they weren't expecting a red searge, and
Speaker 1: we got both. So you know, Trump is now just
Speaker 1: under seventy million votes. I think he got sixty three
Speaker 1: or sixty four million last time. Um, Hillary got I
Speaker 1: think sixty six million last time. Biden is now at
Speaker 1: seventy four million. I mean, I think he's gonna get
Speaker 1: to seventy five million once California is fully counted. Um,
Speaker 1: so huge increase in turn out on both sides. And
Speaker 1: I would be shocked if it weren't, you know, driven
Speaker 1: by young people as well as older people. But um,
Speaker 1: you know the thing that the Trump people got mocked
Speaker 1: for um for years saying that they were going to
Speaker 1: bring out a lot more white non college voters. Um,
Speaker 1: it turns out they probably did. I think the Blue
Speaker 1: surge was was clearly bigger, and and and overtook them.
Speaker 1: But you know, the Republicans turned out, and and and
Speaker 1: Trump supporters turned out and and and they're gonna be
Speaker 1: a force in our power. Takes a huge force for
Speaker 1: years to come. And I would not bet against anyone
Speaker 1: whose last name is Trump in Republican primaries. In fact,
Speaker 1: I saw last night there was an article that said
Speaker 1: he had already been discussing by the way, I can't
Speaker 1: vouch for this, but it was I think media it
Speaker 1: saying that he had already been floating the idea of
Speaker 1: if he lost about running in I was going to
Speaker 1: tweet it and say too soon. I think it's very possible.
Speaker 1: I think it's very very possible, And a lot of
Speaker 1: people are talking about that. Um he uh, he would
Speaker 1: be seventy eight, which is about Joe Biden's age. Um,
Speaker 1: he would want to of course avenge his loss. Um.
Speaker 1: I think if the Democratic nominee is Vice President Kamala Harris,
Speaker 1: he would relish the opportunity to have a full on
Speaker 1: race and gender war against somebody who symbolizes is the
Speaker 1: America that he is fighting against tooth and nail. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, David Axelrod had this great line that, you know,
Speaker 1: uh Joe Biden was very culturally inconvenient for Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: And it's true. You know, working class kid from Scranton,
Speaker 1: p A. Not part of the sixties protests movement, not
Speaker 1: part of the woke squad. You know, it was very
Speaker 1: hard to demonize uh Joe Biden or to make him
Speaker 1: a scary figure. I mean, in fact, you know, Donald
Speaker 1: Trump bought himself an impeachment trying to disqualify Joe Biden
Speaker 1: because he knew, I mean give him credit, he knew
Speaker 1: very early on that Biden was going to be a
Speaker 1: deeply problematic opponent for him. Well, I don't think he
Speaker 1: views uh Kamala Harris the same way. Now, he may
Speaker 1: be really underestimating her, and she may build an equally
Speaker 1: if not more powerful coalition driven by you know, different demographics.
Speaker 1: But I just think from the you know, from inside
Speaker 1: you know, humps kind of prejudiced, adult, heat seeking brain. UM.
Speaker 1: You know, I think the possibility of running against a
Speaker 1: woman and a black woman. UM, I think is probably,
Speaker 1: in a sick way, very appealing to him. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about criminal charges that any of the Trump family may face.
Speaker 1: Is that a possibility at all? Given all the investigations
Speaker 1: that are going on in the Southern District of New
Speaker 1: York about you know, improprieties which his charities, uh, certain
Speaker 1: things that have been done taps wise. UM, do you
Speaker 1: think that those will go anywhere? Yeah? I think they might. Um.
Speaker 1: I think you have the New York State Attorney General
Speaker 1: looking into Trump's business and his charity, his fraudulent charity.
Speaker 1: I think you have the Southern District of New York
Speaker 1: looking into this stuff. And I think the great unanswered
Speaker 1: question is, um, does Trump try to pardon himself? I
Speaker 1: actually have very little doubt that he's going to try
Speaker 1: to pardon everyone around him. I think that's how he's
Speaker 1: going to try to buy the loyalty of all these
Speaker 1: people who haven't kind of you know, flipped to use
Speaker 1: the mafia parlance. Um. But I think it is it
Speaker 1: is kind of uncertain legal ground for a president to
Speaker 1: try to pardon himself. You know, that could go to
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. Is Amy Coney Barrett the deciding vote
Speaker 1: on that. I don't know, can a president a president
Speaker 1: can in fact pardon himself for one day herself. Well, no,
Speaker 1: no one has tried before. Nixon, you know, had enough
Speaker 1: propriety that he wouldn't even dream of trying. Um. But
Speaker 1: I don't think Trump respects these you know, these norms
Speaker 1: and traditions at all. Um. And so if it's a possible,
Speaker 1: I mean I certainly don't think Bill Barr is going
Speaker 1: to stand in his way. I think he's going to
Speaker 1: get a favorable opinion from bars Justice Department, um, and
Speaker 1: then it will probably be you know, fought out in
Speaker 1: the courts. And and you know, if if there's anything
Speaker 1: we about Trump that you know, he pushes the limits
Speaker 1: and most of the time he gets away with it. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, you just can't even remember it like washes
Speaker 1: over us all of the stuff that he's done, any
Speaker 1: one of which would have been like a presidency ending
Speaker 1: scandal for previous presidents. And yet he just, you know,
Speaker 1: like old man River, he just keeps rolling along. And
Speaker 1: you know, I think, uh, I think he may try.
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Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. What about these claims of voter
Speaker 1: fraud that seemed to have absolutely no merit. It saddens
Speaker 1: me to see people on this live interview still claiming fraud.
Speaker 1: We've heard that there have been no incidents, or very
Speaker 1: few incidents, or I guess zero incidents. I'm sure there
Speaker 1: have been some cases of sketchy things going on. I mean,
Speaker 1: can you really have an election with zero point zero
Speaker 1: cases of of kind of questionable voting behavior. There's got
Speaker 1: to be a there's got to be a few. But
Speaker 1: you know, no one has presented any evidence of anything significant.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think anyone's presented any evidence of
Speaker 1: a single ballot in this cycle being you know, fraudulent
Speaker 1: in the sense that somebody tried to like double vote
Speaker 1: or cancel out somebody else's vote or something like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, people make plenty of mistakes, of course, and
Speaker 1: we're seeing that all over Pennsylvania in a way that,
Speaker 1: by the way, advantaged Donald Trump, not Joe Biden, because
Speaker 1: you know, people had to kind of go through this
Speaker 1: complicated new procedure with an inner envelope and an outer
Speaker 1: envelope signatures, and I mean it was a whole it
Speaker 1: was a whole thing. Um. But you know, I give
Speaker 1: great credit to Pat to me, the conservative Republican senator
Speaker 1: from Pennsylvania who went on the Today Show this morning
Speaker 1: and said, you know, there's no evidence for what the
Speaker 1: president is saying, and he ought to quit saying. He
Speaker 1: ought to quit saying it. Um. But you know, there
Speaker 1: is a divide in the Republican party between you know,
Speaker 1: the retiring Republicans too, he's not running again in two
Speaker 1: who are being honest about this stuff, um, you know,
Speaker 1: or the or the retired Republicans who you know, many
Speaker 1: of whom supported Biden, and the Republicans with ambition, Um,
Speaker 1: who are you know, in some cases fanning the flames? Now,
Speaker 1: I will say Kevin McCarthy, the House Republican Leader, went
Speaker 1: on Fox last night said that Trump won the election,
Speaker 1: you know, definitively said that Trump won the big Fox
Speaker 1: primetime audience. I think he was on the Lory Ingram Show.
Speaker 1: He then posted that on social media, knowing exactly what
Speaker 1: he said, spread it around, and then today walked it back.
Speaker 1: Today he said he was misunderstood and what he meant
Speaker 1: was that Trump had won by helping down ballad, House
Speaker 1: and Senate Republicans, which of course was not what he meant.
Speaker 1: But I do think it's noteworthy that he felt the
Speaker 1: need to walk it back that you know, you you
Speaker 1: have the news voices on Fox who are mostly being
Speaker 1: pretty responsible here. I mean, apparently Trump is calling Rupert
Speaker 1: Murdoch and others and and yelling about the Fox coverage
Speaker 1: that they're not parroting his line that the whole thing
Speaker 1: was stolen. I think Box, you know, on some level,
Speaker 1: is already looking a little bit past Trump and and
Speaker 1: they may actually have a you know, set aside whatever
Speaker 1: their Morald views are, they have a business interest and
Speaker 1: potentially being kind of the the opposition party because historically
Speaker 1: their ratings have gone up, knocked down one of Democrats
Speaker 1: and in the White House. So let's talk about the
Speaker 1: concession speech. Will it? Do you think there will be one?
Speaker 1: I don't think there's ever gonna be one. That's my question.
Speaker 1: It's something, do you think if Donald Trump has lost
Speaker 1: that he really wants to go down in history as
Speaker 1: the most churlish, most bitter defeated president of all time. Um,
Speaker 1: it's it's such. I know, I know, I know, I know,
Speaker 1: I know better than being a loser, you know. I
Speaker 1: think for Donald Trump, there were always only two outcomes
Speaker 1: to this election. Either he one or it was stolen.
Speaker 1: That was the only two. He was setting that. He
Speaker 1: was setting the foundation for that for months and months
Speaker 1: and months, despite the fact that mailan voting was always
Speaker 1: going to have to be a necessary thing, especially in
Speaker 1: the midst of a pandemic. I was watching John McCain's
Speaker 1: concession speech in two thousand and eight. I saw you
Speaker 1: posted that Larry Clinton's in two thousand sixteen, which someone
Speaker 1: said was not gracious and that could not be further
Speaker 1: from the truth. It was moving, but she was, you know,
Speaker 1: very magnanimous towards Donald Trump. So you think what is
Speaker 1: going to happen in the next two months before the inauguration.
Speaker 1: I think he's going to be churlish and uncooperative. I
Speaker 1: think he's not going to like be physically dragged out
Speaker 1: of the White House. I think he's going to leave,
Speaker 1: but I think that is the most he will do.
Speaker 1: I think, and again I hope to death that I
Speaker 1: am wrong. I don't think he's gonna uh send the
Speaker 1: message to you know, the dregs and crooks who populate
Speaker 1: his administration to cooperate in any sense with the the
Speaker 1: incoming administration. I think Biden, based on the combination of
Speaker 1: COVID and the economy and Donald Trump, is going to
Speaker 1: have by far the worst and most difficult transition of
Speaker 1: any incoming president ever. I think Trump is going to
Speaker 1: say that, you know, the deep state plotted against him,
Speaker 1: the fraudulent votes, and and big media and big tech
Speaker 1: and all this stuff that he's using is what pushed
Speaker 1: him out of the White House. But he knows he won,
Speaker 1: and you know, he won, and this is all a
Speaker 1: fraud and Biden's illegitimate. Um. I don't think he's going
Speaker 1: to invite the Biden's in for the traditional coffee before
Speaker 1: the inauguration. I don't think he's going to attend Biden's inauguration,
Speaker 1: and I'd be surprised if he did that. Uh, you know, traditionally,
Speaker 1: of course, UM, the outgoing president invites the president elect
Speaker 1: shortly after the couple of days after the election to
Speaker 1: the White House for a very civil and cordial meeting.
Speaker 1: You know, the last election like this was when Obama
Speaker 1: defeated Romney, and I think a couple of weeks after
Speaker 1: the election, Obama invited Romney in for lunch and they
Speaker 1: had a very by all accounts, a very friendly, cordial
Speaker 1: conversation for about an hour. President Obama invited President elect
Speaker 1: Trump to the White House I think, two days after
Speaker 1: the election and had him to lunch, and and I
Speaker 1: just think he's gonna, you know, he's just blowing up
Speaker 1: all the norms and and that the real loser is
Speaker 1: our is our institutions and our democracy and public trust,
Speaker 1: and this is really dangerous stuff. Well, Brian, it's been
Speaker 1: so fun talking to you about all this stuff. You
Speaker 1: guys can see why I always call all Brian when
Speaker 1: I have quite political Thank you, all right, I'll talk
Speaker 1: to you soon, bye, Brian. Turnout is a production of
Speaker 1: I Heart Media and Katie Curric Media. The executive producers
Speaker 1: are Katie Curic and Courtney Littz, Supervising producers Lauren Hansen,
Speaker 1: Associate producers Derek Clements, Eliza Costas, and Emily Pento, editing
Speaker 1: by Derreck Clements and Lauren Hansen, mixing by Derrick Clements.
Speaker 1: Our researcher is Gabriel Loser and special thanks to my
Speaker 1: right hand woman Adriana Fasio. You can follow me in
Speaker 1: all my election coverage at Katie Currey. Meanwhile, yes, I'm
Speaker 1: Katie Currect. Thanks so much for listening everyone. We'll see
Speaker 1: you next time. Keney Jason here at three time All
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