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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease?

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Speaker 2: Does it never end with this guy? I'm talking about

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Speaker 2: Rex Huerman, aka the Prime Suspect and the Long Island

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Speaker 2: serial killer murders. Let me just give you an example.

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Speaker 2: He's enjoying behind bars Italian sausage, green beans with potatoes,

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Speaker 2: seasoned veggies, and macaroni salad. Nobody's cooking that for me,

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Speaker 2: but they are for him as he spends two to

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Speaker 2: three hours a day coming over discovery provided by the state,

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Speaker 2: including secret grand jury testimony. Oh and did I mention

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Speaker 2: his wife has just signed a one million dollar deal

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Speaker 2: with Peacock. Does it pay to be a serial killer?

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Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grease, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 2: being with us here at Crime Stories and on series six,

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Speaker 2: sem one eleven.

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Speaker 3: In the last weeks, Rex Huerman in court.

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Speaker 2: Now, guess who shows up for the first time and

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Speaker 2: shows up? May I add and style?

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Speaker 3: Listen?

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Speaker 4: When Asa Eleup showed up for one of Huerman's recent

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Speaker 4: court appearances, she arrived in a silver Mercedes, was equipped

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Speaker 4: with the Lavalier microphone and a Peacock documentary crew in

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Speaker 4: tow ellierp was seen smiling in court as she was

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Speaker 4: seated with her attorney, Bob Macedonia, and an interviewer from

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Speaker 4: the documentary crew. Ellrep even smiled and nodded at Huerman

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Speaker 4: when he turned and smiled at her before leaving the

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Speaker 4: court room.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, I think my hearing is finally going

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Speaker 2: because I thought I heard that she showed up in

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Speaker 2: a silver Mercedes and smiled at the guy she hasn't

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Speaker 2: visited one time, the guy who allegedly is torturing and

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Speaker 2: murdering sex or in their home. Jackie, could you please

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Speaker 2: play that again?

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Speaker 3: I must have misheard it.

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Speaker 4: When Asa Elerap showed up for one of Hureman's recent

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Speaker 4: court appearances. She arrived in a silver Mercedes, was equipped

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Speaker 4: at the Lavalier microphone, and a peacock documentary crew in tow.

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Speaker 4: Ellerp was seen smiling in court as she was seated

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Speaker 4: with her attorney, Bob Macedonia and an interviewer from the

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Speaker 4: documentary crew. Elerap even smiled and nodded at Huerman when

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Speaker 4: he turned and smiled at her before leaving the courtroom.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I heard correctly.

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Speaker 2: The wife who claimed that she was bankrupt, and I

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Speaker 2: believe even has started a GoFundMe to support herself is

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Speaker 2: showing up in a silver Mercedes with a Lavalier mi

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Speaker 2: Con and a camera crew all done up. Really okay,

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Speaker 2: is this Asa Eleirap or is this Kim Kardashkan being

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Speaker 2: Megan and Harry. You remember every time they show up

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Speaker 2: in New York, there's a camera crew chasing them around.

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Speaker 2: Charlie Langston joined me, us editor for dailymail dot Com.

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Speaker 5: What I mean, things have certainly taken a turn for

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Speaker 5: miss Ella up Let us not forget that just a

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Speaker 5: few weeks ago she was seen looking I mean absolutely

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Speaker 5: kind of out of things. She was disheveled, she was crying,

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Speaker 5: And now all of a sudden, she's turning up at court,

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Speaker 5: as you said, like an A list superstar. She's accompanied

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Speaker 5: by cameras, she's smiling. She was even seen laughing with

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Speaker 5: the Peacock interviewer. And that is because her life has

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Speaker 5: taken a pretty drastic turn in the last couple of weeks. Now, obviously,

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Speaker 5: having your husband suspected of multiple murders is not that

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Speaker 5: easy to deal with, but she's now got the cushion

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Speaker 5: of a one million dollar Peacock documentary deal, Plus her

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Speaker 5: husband recently signed over their five hundred and thirty thousand

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Speaker 5: dollars home to her for zero dollars. So her life

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Speaker 5: has really kind of taken, you know, as much as

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Speaker 5: it can a few positive steps forwards.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, what did you say? A few positive steps?

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Speaker 2: A million dollar deal, a camera crew chasing her around,

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Speaker 2: and her husband signed over half a million dollar home

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Speaker 2: to her. Some would argue in a bid so the

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Speaker 2: murder victims families can't get at it.

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Speaker 3: Okay, you know what to Joseph.

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Speaker 2: Jack Alone, I think you'll be able to agree with

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Speaker 2: me on this, or at least empathize with what I'm

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Speaker 2: about to say, because you're a former NYPD sergeant, author

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Speaker 2: of the cold Case handbook, The Criminal Investigative Function, a

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Speaker 2: guide for an investigators, podcast hosts of a hit series

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Speaker 2: True Crime with the Sergeant. I mean, I can go

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Speaker 2: on and on and on, but my point is you've

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Speaker 2: been in the trenches just like me. I've seen crime

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Speaker 2: victims suffering, trying to deal with the loss of their mother,

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Speaker 2: their daughter, and in such a horrible way. Because you know,

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Speaker 2: if these allegations are true, he rex Huerman murdered unarmed,

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Speaker 2: defensive women as he was raping them and beating them

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Speaker 2: and binding them and torturing them and killing them. Many

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Speaker 2: of them had children that to this day don't really

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Speaker 2: know what happened to Mommy can't bear to think about

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Speaker 2: her last moments being raped and tortured by Rex Huerman

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Speaker 2: and now Asa Ellerup has a million dollar peacock deal

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Speaker 2: and they're suddenly exchanging smiles and loving glances in court

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Speaker 2: when she hasn't visited him one time until the cameras

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Speaker 2: shut up. I don't know Joe jacquelone. It just I

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Speaker 2: want good things for her. But the irony that nobody

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Speaker 2: gives a flying fig about the crime victims' families that

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Speaker 2: grew up without him, that doesn't bother you. After all

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Speaker 2: the crime victims you've seen.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely it's what's happening is absolutely abysmal.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's bass awkwards, that's what it is.

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Speaker 3: Pass awkwards.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, we have gotten away from being victim centric in

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Speaker 6: our society, and it's always should have been that way,

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Speaker 6: and it should continue to be that way. And we

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Speaker 6: shouldn't be rewarding people. I don't care if it's family

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Speaker 6: members or not for the deeds of their loved ones.

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Speaker 7: Let's put it that way.

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Speaker 6: The issue that really comes down to is that these

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Speaker 6: families have been struggling for decades and the problem is

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Speaker 6: that they had just gotten some breaks. Right the new

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Speaker 6: police administration, Rodney Harrison, comes in, takes charge, you know,

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Speaker 6: some of the cases of being south and then you know,

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Speaker 6: unfortunately he's leaving, and we see this now happening, and

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Speaker 6: we always seem to forget about the victims. And the

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Speaker 6: victims should always be front and center. I mean, you

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Speaker 6: don't even even the media is not even interviewing them

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Speaker 6: or reaching out to them and saying, hey, let me

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Speaker 6: hear your story. It just has never happened in this case.

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Speaker 6: And I know what John is here. I mean, it

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Speaker 6: wasn't for John Ray, this case would have been died

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Speaker 6: in the media a long time ago.

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Speaker 2: Oh and speaking of John Ray, you know what, that's

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Speaker 2: another thing I like about you, Jack alone, You're not

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Speaker 2: a camera hog. You know, you're calling out John Ray,

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Speaker 2: who has gone so far in advancing this case.

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Speaker 3: John Ray is with us.

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Speaker 2: He's the family lawyer for Shannon Gilbert, who I believe

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Speaker 2: was murdered by Rex Huerman. And while the wife John

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Speaker 2: is planning what she's gonna do with that million dollars

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Speaker 2: and the five hundred thousand dollars house that's been signed

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Speaker 2: over to her. You are out there finding witnesses that

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Speaker 2: are absolutely linking two women, Shannon Gilbert and Karen Vigotta,

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Speaker 2: to rex Huerman.

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Speaker 3: So where's the indictments?

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Speaker 2: Hey? Hey, John Ray, high profile lawyer joining us. You

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Speaker 2: can find him at John Ray Law dot Nette. John,

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Speaker 2: listen to this from our friends at crime on line

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Speaker 2: dot com.

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Speaker 4: At least one million dollars that's how much rex Huerman's

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Speaker 4: family will reportedly be paid for taking part in an

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Speaker 4: upcoming documentary for Peacock NBC. It's a Ellerp and her

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Speaker 4: two grown children with the accused Long Island serial killer,

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Speaker 4: have agreed to sell their life rights shadowing the family

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Speaker 4: during Humorman's upcoming trial for the murders of three sex workers.

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Speaker 3: One million dollars.

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Speaker 2: Okay, John Ray, you have brought to light multiple eyewitnesses

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Speaker 2: and they're not all sex workers. And listen, John, I

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Speaker 2: spent a lot of time as a felony prosecutor in

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Speaker 2: strip bars and going up and down the strip in

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Speaker 2: just outside intercity Atlanta, speaking to sex workers, trying to

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Speaker 2: develop cases all sorts of cases, drug cases, prostitution cases,

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Speaker 2: child sex ring cases you name it, and the fact

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Speaker 2: that many of these victims sex workers. That means nothing

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Speaker 2: to me, and I'm very distressed that anyone would place

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Speaker 2: less value on their lives. They have daughters, sons, moms, dads,

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Speaker 2: grandparents that have never known what happened to them, and

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Speaker 2: their pain is real. But I want to hear from you,

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Speaker 2: John Ray, your reaction to a million dollar peacock deal

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Speaker 2: reported million dollar deal for Asa Elrup.

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Speaker 8: Well, it's what I've been seeing from the start. This

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Speaker 8: miss Ellerup is a sociopath and she certainly is in

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Speaker 8: the circle of suspect.

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Speaker 3: So why would you call her associate?

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Speaker 2: First of all, Now, I know you've got your JD

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Speaker 2: and you're a high profile trial lawyer, but I don't

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Speaker 2: believe you have your degree in psychology, right correct? Okay,

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Speaker 2: hold on, hold on. Dr Bethany Marshall joining me right now, psychoanalyst.

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Speaker 2: You can find her at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. She

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Speaker 2: is in a brand new film project, Doctor Bethany What

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Speaker 2: is now?

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Speaker 3: John Ray?

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Speaker 2: Maybe he's right. I don't know because I'm certainly not

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Speaker 2: a shrink. What did you say, psychopath or sociopath? John?

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Speaker 8: I said, sociopath and also suspect.

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Speaker 2: Oh now, suspect catches my attention a lot more than sociopath. Okay,

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Speaker 2: go ahead, doctor Bethany. Sociopath what is that?

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Speaker 7: Well, sociopath is somebody somebody who has a it's a

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Speaker 7: disorder of detachment. They have a complete lack of remorse.

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Speaker 7: They're callous, their cold, they're parasitic. They suck off of

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Speaker 7: other people.

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Speaker 2: Often parasitic.

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Speaker 7: They're parasitic.

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Speaker 2: Okay, go ahead.

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Speaker 7: They live off of other people. And you know often

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Speaker 7: they use cruelty, which is interwoven with sexuality, so killing

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Speaker 7: people at the same time as you know, maybe having

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Speaker 7: some kind of a masturbatory fantasy.

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Speaker 2: Can I ask how do you work masturbation into every question?

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Speaker 7: I ask you because this is basically a sex crime. Okay,

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Speaker 7: serial killing is all about sexual compulsivity, and correct Leigh

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Speaker 7: in about these wives really quickly. You know, you have

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Speaker 7: an asat ellerup who is smiling. She has like a

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Speaker 7: million reasons to smile right now, and she's pretty remorseless

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Speaker 7: and callous towards the victims. And thousands of serial killers

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Speaker 7: seem to fall into one of two categories. Either you

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Speaker 7: have the ast elerups who really have a corruption of

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Speaker 7: conscience along with the husband. We saw this with J. C.

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Speaker 7: Dugard's hold on.

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Speaker 2: I need to write that down corruption, I'm conscious, Okay,

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Speaker 2: hold on, go ahead. Now.

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Speaker 3: Many people would.

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Speaker 2: Argue that she she is was a battered woman. I

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Speaker 2: don't know that to be true or not. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if I could go so far as to call

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Speaker 2: her a suspect guilty. Knowledge does not aspect make Did

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Speaker 2: she aid in a bet? That's a whole other can

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Speaker 2: of worms. Go ahead.

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Speaker 7: Well, she doesn't appear to be an abuse victim right now.

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Speaker 7: She seems to have kind of a superior, smug attitude

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Speaker 7: towards the victim. She's monetizing their death. So think of

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Speaker 7: JC Douguard, who was kept in the captor's backyard. The

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Speaker 7: captor and his wife would hold religious services, bring j. C.

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Speaker 7: Du Guard in all the time that the husband was

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Speaker 7: raping jac. So the wife knew about it, she sanctioned it,

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Speaker 7: she overlooked it. And compare that to the wife of

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Speaker 7: the BTK killer. We've never heard much from her at all.

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Speaker 7: She's ashamed, she was passive, she was firmly under his control.

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Speaker 7: So on the one hand, you have the abused wife

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Speaker 7: who pretty much knows nothing and is in a state

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Speaker 7: of shock. And then you have the wives who similarly

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Speaker 7: feel that kind of that the victims have it coming

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Speaker 7: to them and take some secret delight in what's happening

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Speaker 7: to the victim.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of the wife as a potential suspect who now

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Speaker 2: has a million dollar deal with Peacock, take a listen

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Speaker 2: to our cut two three eight.

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Speaker 4: The wife of Rex Huerman has not been accused of

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Speaker 4: any wrongdoing by police. They've even gone so far as

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Speaker 4: to say they believe she was out of town when

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Speaker 4: the murders of the Gilgil four were committed. However, in

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Speaker 4: an interview with the US Sun, attorney John Ray points

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Speaker 4: out he doesn't see how it's possible to ignore or

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Speaker 4: refuse to investigate Asa Elerap in light of the purported

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Speaker 4: evidence he has uncovered. Interesting to point out hair's belonging

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Speaker 4: to Ellrop were found on at least three of the women,

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Speaker 4: helping lead detectives back to Humorman.

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Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace, Is there right, Charlie Langston?

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Speaker 2: Hairs found on three of the victims, and how many

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Speaker 2: of those hairs do we believe belong to Asa Ella Up?

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Speaker 3: The wife that is correct.

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Speaker 5: Multiple hairs were found on the victims that belonged to

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Speaker 5: human's wife, Asa, and that was actually one of the

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Speaker 5: things that linked him to the victims in the first place.

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Speaker 5: So you know, I think you can you can say

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Speaker 5: one of many different things, and I'm sure that there

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Speaker 5: are some experts here who will be able to give

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Speaker 5: you better informed information than I can. But how you

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Speaker 5: can fail to investigate her completely seems absolutely wild to me.

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Speaker 6: Surely they would want.

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Speaker 5: To look into what she knew and whether she was

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Speaker 5: connected to any of the victims, because at the end

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Speaker 5: of the day, she had physical evidence on their bodies

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Speaker 5: that links her to three dead women.

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Speaker 2: It's not just the hair, which we are understanding, and

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Speaker 2: this will be made clear in court, that her hair

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Speaker 2: is found on three of the victims.

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Speaker 3: Take a listen now to our cut two two eight.

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Speaker 9: The fourth comes from another state. She was a sex

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Speaker 9: worker for many years. She said that she would service

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Speaker 9: rex Uomen over twenty times, and that he would he

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Speaker 9: was a serial user of sex workers. He would sometimes

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Speaker 9: have him come two at a time to his house

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Speaker 9: and his wife was home upstairs, and in one instance

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Speaker 9: got very angry at one of the sex workers because

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Speaker 9: the wife believed that the worker had stolen an iron

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Speaker 9: from you know, for ironing clothes, and had had it

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Speaker 9: in the car with the driver, So the driver had

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Speaker 9: to get out, everybody had to search the car. There

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Speaker 9: was no iron, but the wife knew about it and

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Speaker 9: knew about obviously what was going on in order for

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Speaker 9: that to happen.

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Speaker 2: John Ray joining us the lawyer for the family of

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Speaker 2: Shannon Gilbert. And I'm still waiting on that indictment because

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Speaker 2: now you have managed to dig up witnesses not necessary

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Speaker 2: early in the sex business that connect Hureman, place Hureman

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Speaker 2: with Shannon Gilbert and Karen Forgata.

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Speaker 3: What more do they need it?

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Speaker 2: I mean, do they really believe another serial killer came

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Speaker 2: in and disposed of bodies where Rex Huerman had been

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Speaker 2: disposing a body that doesn't even make any sense. It's

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Speaker 2: astronomically unlikely that that happened, and now eyewitnesses are linking them.

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Speaker 2: So explain your theory that Elrop is actually a suspect.

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Speaker 2: Guilty knowledge does not a suspect make, But.

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Speaker 8: She's more than guilty knowledge. First of all, I say suspect,

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Speaker 8: I didn't say convict. And because she has four hairs

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Speaker 8: actually that turn up on the three bodies. One of

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Speaker 8: those hairs turns up on the belt, the same as

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Speaker 8: beult dealing with friended burns. And you know, for those

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Speaker 8: here to get there and all of them beyond the

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Speaker 8: different bodies all at once is to me a very

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Speaker 8: strong case for her being a suspect. And it's not

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Speaker 8: hair that just fell off of Rex. That's extremely unlikely.

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Speaker 8: But in any event, we have that, Plus we have

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Speaker 8: this completely conscienceless approach that she's had from day one

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Speaker 8: when she get into this case. She is a they

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Speaker 8: said a sociopath about that, but she's also Everything she

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Speaker 8: says and does indicates that she is conscience less. She

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Speaker 8: has no conscience. That's a precondition as well, because that

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Speaker 8: puts her in the circle of suspects. There has to

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Speaker 8: be more found out about her. But we have other

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Speaker 8: witnesses who say, oh, she's having a you know, she's

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Speaker 8: with her husband. They go and have their haircut together,

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Speaker 8: they travel together. This is not an abused woman. And

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Speaker 8: yet we have witnesses, eyewitnesses who put her in the

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Speaker 8: room with her husband when these multiple sex situations are

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Speaker 8: going on in this teeny weeny little house. So how

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Speaker 8: does that tie in. Well, it puts her closer and

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Speaker 8: closer to the center of the problem, which is the murders.

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Speaker 8: And here she is apparently also involving herself and swinging

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Speaker 8: as well, according to one of the witnesses, so with

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Speaker 8: her husband. That is so we have here also something

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Speaker 8: else about these two people, she and her husband, and

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Speaker 8: they are high risk takers. And you might wonder what

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Speaker 8: happened to all their money. The guy made of four

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Speaker 8: hundred million dollars over the course of years. Where did

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Speaker 8: the money go? Well, we now have a new witness

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Speaker 8: has come forward and says he spends his time sitting

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Speaker 8: in certain gambling places Mohican Mohegan up in Connecticut. He's

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Speaker 8: there for hours and hours. He's a gambler. They are gamblers,

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Speaker 8: they are risk takers. This woman has no conscience, so

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Speaker 8: she can take the risks that she's taking. Think about

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Speaker 8: this every time she talks to Peacock, whatever she says

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Speaker 8: to them. Eventually the district attorney is going to be

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Speaker 8: able to subpoena records of what she said and why

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Speaker 8: all of that's on the table. And then she's got

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Speaker 8: two lawyers who are getting paid to have her expose

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Speaker 8: herself like this, it's bizarre, and it's bizarre because the

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Speaker 8: whole case is bizarre.

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Speaker 2: Another issue about what you just said, John Ray, is

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Speaker 2: the husband wife marital privilege. Much of what prosecutors may

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Speaker 2: want to ask Asa eller Up would be disallowed in

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Speaker 2: court because Rex Huerman, the defendant, would jump up his

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Speaker 2: lawyer with anyway and claim marital privilege. The defendant is

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Speaker 2: the one that claims the privilege, not the witness, not her. However,

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Speaker 2: if she pierces the privilege, my divulging to producers or

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Speaker 2: anyone else, much less on camera private conversations, private observations,

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Speaker 2: has relinquished the privilege. So I guarantee you there will

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Speaker 2: be a court battle for not only the footage that

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Speaker 2: they film, but everything as Eleup says to producers, to assistants,

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Speaker 2: to camera people. You name anything that she says that

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Speaker 2: could pierce the privilege. Could you boil that down?

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Speaker 8: Yeah? I mean basically, what will happen is that everything

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Speaker 8: she says, not not only the peacock, but including her lawyers,

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Speaker 8: that will lose the privilege. When she's saying things to

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Speaker 8: a third party in front, in the presence of her

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Speaker 8: attorneys and with their consentants, especially so so they lose

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Speaker 8: their privilege as well. That you know, the attorney client

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Speaker 8: privilege disappears along with the disappearance of the husband wife privilege.

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Speaker 8: There'll be no more privileges now that she's going into

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Speaker 8: Peacock and doing this.

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Speaker 2: I want to circle back to the hair nother Kendall

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Speaker 2: Crowns is joining US Chief Medical Examiner Terreant County. That's

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Speaker 2: Fort Worth Lecturer, University of Texas Austin and Texas Christian

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Speaker 2: University Medical School.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Crowns, thank.

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Speaker 2: You so much for being with us and taking time

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Speaker 2: away from Oh my Stars. I guess now over ten

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Speaker 2: thousand autopsies you have performed. Could you explain, because I

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Speaker 2: know this is going to be attacked in court, how

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Speaker 2: hair is found a third person's hair, not the victim's hair,

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Speaker 2: on the victim's body or for instance, in a burlap

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Speaker 2: bag in which the victim's body is in case, How

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Speaker 2: exactly is that done in a way that holds up

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Speaker 2: under attack in court?

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Speaker 10: So as I'm sure you're aware, everybody sheds a certain

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Speaker 10: amount of hair every day and it gets on surfaces,

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Speaker 10: on your clothes.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm not aware. I don't know anything about shedding hair.

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Speaker 10: Tell me, okay, Well, everybody every day loses a certain

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Speaker 10: amount of hair. It's just a natural of life. Everybody

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Speaker 10: sheds a little bit of their hair as they go

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Speaker 10: about the day, as you comb your hair, etc. So

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Speaker 10: you have it on your clothes, you have it in

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Speaker 10: your car, you have it on surfaces about your house.

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Speaker 10: When someone gets murdered in an area where your hair

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Speaker 10: fibers are at, their blood can stick to that hair

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Speaker 10: and it gets stuck to their body. Also, when the

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Speaker 10: individual is being murdered, they may grab at your hair

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Speaker 10: and pull it out of your head and it gets

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Speaker 10: on their body as well. If it's a third person,

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Speaker 10: say his wife in this particular case, her hair is

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Speaker 10: in the house where these sex workers are at. Her

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Speaker 10: hair can be transferred onto them and then carried out.

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Speaker 10: So hair is one of those fibers that can easily

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Speaker 10: get mixed onto a body just through the natural course

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Speaker 10: of events.

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Speaker 2: So we shed fifty two one hundred hairs a day

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Speaker 2: that we know of. And I also want to point

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Speaker 2: out John Ray. I hope you're sitting down John Ray,

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Speaker 2: high profile lawyer. The lawyers in this case are getting

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Speaker 2: four hundred thousand and two hundred thousand, respectively in court.

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Speaker 2: That's a half a million dollars. That's a lot of money.

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Speaker 8: The lawyers not only getting paid, they're getting paid to

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Speaker 8: do something that walks the very thin line of of

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Speaker 8: you know, unethical behavior because they're putting there, they're exposing

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Speaker 8: their client to possible prosecution, and they're exposing their client

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Speaker 8: at least to assisting her earn in convicting her husband.

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Speaker 2: You mean by allowing the Peacock documentary to go forward,

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Speaker 2: if you could call it that.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, and to get paid for it, but by a

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Speaker 8: third party they're getting They're not getting paid by Ellrope.

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Speaker 8: They're getting paid by a third party. So who is

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Speaker 8: their client?

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Speaker 2: Not only is there a million dollar deal and a

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Speaker 2: silver Mercedes somehow has weaseled into this scenario.

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Speaker 3: But there's also a go fundme. Take a listen to this.

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Speaker 4: The daughter of the Happy Face killer Keith Jefsperson set

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Speaker 4: up a GoFundMe for Ella Up to help her do

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Speaker 4: just that. So far, over fifty six thousand dollars has

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Speaker 4: been raised. Some victims' families have criticized the fundraiser. Sources

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Speaker 4: tell news agencies that filming has already begun and will

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Speaker 4: continue throughout the as yet unscheduled trial and its aftermath.

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Speaker 4: Film crews were seen trailing the family to Huerman's recent arraignment.

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Speaker 2: Wow and speaking of the recent arrangment, remember that Ace

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Speaker 2: Elrup has not been visiting her husband at all zero

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Speaker 2: times behind bars until this listens.

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Speaker 4: Asa Elerap, wife a suspected Long Island serial killer, shows

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Speaker 4: up to visit him in jail, then comes to a hearing,

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Speaker 4: both the first since his arrest in July, and many

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Speaker 4: wonder if she will continue to show up for her

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Speaker 4: husband of twenty seven years. Ellerup's divorce attorney confirmed that

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Speaker 4: Ellup wants to see the court proceedings for herself. Rex

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Speaker 4: Huerman is caught staring directly at his estranged wife in

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Speaker 4: a recent court hearing. Wpi X reports Huerman cast a

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Speaker 4: sharp glance to his right, where Ellerup is sitting with

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Speaker 4: her lawyer and a p from nbcpacock. While Huerman is

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Speaker 4: looking at her, Fox News reports Ellerup's expression is a

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Speaker 4: slight smile in response.

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Speaker 2: Exchanging smiles in the courtroom, A million dollar deal in

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Speaker 2: the works, silver Mercedes driving her around?

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Speaker 3: What's happening next?

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Speaker 2: Plus a GoFundMe that is raising more money by the day,

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Speaker 2: while my husband, Rex Huerman is behind bars being fed

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Speaker 2: Italian sausage, green beans with potatoes, seasoned veggies and macaroni salad. Okay,

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Speaker 2: joining me right now, special guest Keith Rovere, author of

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Speaker 2: the Story of You That's Why You and podcast host

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Speaker 2: of and I didn't understand this at first or now

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Speaker 2: the Lighter Side of Serial Killers, and you were sent

436
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: Rex Huerman's letter by the Smiley Face Killer? Is that correct,

437
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:00,160
Speaker 2: Keith rev.

438
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 11: Yes, thank you for having me on the show, the

439
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 11: blessing to be a part of it. I have known

440
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 11: Keith for a few years now.

441
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 3: First of all, who is Keith?

442
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 11: Keith Jefferson, the Happy Face Killer. He's been on my

443
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 11: podcast probably ten times or so. And Rex isn't the

444
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 11: first serial color that he has written.

445
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: I assume that when you say Rex, you were on

446
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 2: a first name basis with the two serial killers.

447
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 11: Well, Rex Heerman I've never talked to I've never corresponded

448
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 11: with him at all. Keith had sp for his address

449
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 11: in prison or in jail, right, where is that now?

450
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 11: So I send him that Wayne adam Ford, another serial

451
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 11: killer just on my podcast received the letter from Keith

452
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 11: also years ago, author Shawl Cross, Charles Manson, He's written

453
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 11: numerous people. One of the reasons that he gave me

454
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 11: the letter is like the Manson letter Charles Manson I

455
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 11: received was stolen out of his cell. So he didn't

456
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 11: want that letter stolen. So he said it to me.

457
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,239
Speaker 11: You know, there's a trust factor, but up, I've known

458
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,719
Speaker 11: them for many years. The other reason he sent it

459
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 11: to me, I was going to be on the dateline

460
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 11: special this release on Rex. You were have been last week.

461
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 11: They decided to cut this letter out. I didn't own

462
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 11: the letter at that point. I just they heard about

463
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 11: the letter and they decided to not air that portion

464
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 11: on the show. They want to focus more on the victims. Rightfully,

465
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 11: so came out great.

466
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 6: Well.

467
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 11: Keith found out about that. He's jesperson and I told him,

468
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 11: I'm not going to be part of the show. The

469
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 11: letter's not going to be part of the show. They

470
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 11: want to focused on the victims. That upset him, and

471
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 11: so he said, I'm also going to send you this

472
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 11: letter so you can show that one of the producers

473
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 11: who wanted me on the show, I think Julia Kimmer's

474
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 11: her name. He was upset. Oh, they think I'm lying

475
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 11: because I lied to Depress, you know, years ago.

476
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 2: Well, it's because you're a serial killer. That's why nobody believes.

477
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 11: Them, of course, but that was the one trust factor.

478
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 11: He didn't want the letter stole on and show what

479
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 11: the dateline NBC saying, Hey, look, I'm not a liar.

480
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 11: Here's the letter. Here's the letter.

481
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sorry, hold on, don't care. And I don't

482
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 2: mean that in an evil, hateful way, but I don't

483
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 2: care that a serial killer is angry that he didn't

484
00:27:55,600 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 2: make dateline. Just could not care any less than I.

485
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 2: But speaking of the Happy Face Killer, who apparently has

486
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 2: chuck up a pin pal relationship with Rex Huerman, do

487
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 2: I have to quote my grandmother birds of a feather

488
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 2: flocked together? Okay, there I said it.

489
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 3: Take a listener or cut two five to two. Who

490
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 3: is the Happy Face Killer?

491
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 4: In the early nineties, Keith Jesperson was a long haul

492
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 4: truck driver who liked to kill women. When someone else

493
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 4: took credit for one of his murders, he started sending

494
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 4: letters to the media and police with information only the

495
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 4: killer would know. He put a happy face on each

496
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 4: of his letters and was dubbed the Happy Face Killer

497
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 4: in prison for life since nineteen ninety five, The Happy

498
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 4: Face Killer is becoming pin pals with suspected Long Island

499
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 4: serial killer rex Huerman. The Daily Mail reports that Jessperson

500
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 4: wrote a letter to Hureman, encouraging him to confess and

501
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 4: offering some advice. Rex Huerman reportedly writes back, thanking the

502
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 4: Happy Face Killer for the advice, and then complains about

503
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 4: the food in jail and the exercise show.

504
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace.

505
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 3: Sydney.

506
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 2: Please get me somere menis from the jail, because you

507
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 2: know what, I'm making fish filets tonight. They can you

508
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 2: get frozen and they have a little breading on it.

509
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 2: Because the twins love them. They think they're having fish. Okay,

510
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 2: So I think I would do a backflip if somebody

511
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 2: came in and had prepared and I've got to hear

512
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 2: more Italian sausage, green beans with potatoes, seasoned veggies, and

513
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 2: that crunning salad. I'm sure that there's a dessert in there.

514
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 2: And these two are complaining about the food behind bars.

515
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 2: I mean, what are they talking about with each other? Keith?

516
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 11: One thing I think is very telling sometimes it's what's

517
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 11: not in a letter or what somebody does not say

518
00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 11: in writing that, like how.

519
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 2: They charge raped and murdered unarmed and defenseless women once

520
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 2: they lured them and got them alone and then overpowered

521
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: them by girth and weapons.

522
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 11: Yes, and also the fact what he did not say

523
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 11: is I did not do it. I am not guilty.

524
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 11: Though I get a sense of like peace about this,

525
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 11: like acceptance, like yeah, they got me, and wonder what

526
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 11: the food's going to be. I didn't get a sense

527
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 11: of any of that that, Hey, I'm not guilty. What

528
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 11: do I do or what do I do? I definitely

529
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 11: did not do this nothing. It's almost a calmness when

530
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 11: you read that letter of his streams guilt to me

531
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 11: despite reading it.

532
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 2: Oh no, just a moment, you're absolutely right nowhere did

533
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 2: they claim I didn't do this? I'm being real roaded, Sydney.

534
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 2: How dare you point out to me that you had

535
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 2: already sent me that information? Okay, here we go for breakfast,

536
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 2: chilled a grape juice, hot cinnamon, oatmeal, toast, margarine, milk, coffee, sugar, okay,

537
00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 2: hot wheat, cereal blah blah blah, Krispy rice cereal hard

538
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 2: cooked eggs. That's just for breakfast. Wait for it, is

539
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 2: this lunch or dinner At lunch beef catcheatory with spaghetti,

540
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 2: steam and green beans, bread and butter, Hawaiian beverage, apple sauce.

541
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 2: And for the vegans meatless pepper steak. Okay, I mean.

542
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 3: Here's one of my faves.

543
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 2: This is for lunch, tomato soup, cream and tomato and

544
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 2: grilled cheese sandwich. It's like mother's cooking your meal. Barbecue, chicken,

545
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 2: white rice, creole, bean sauce. I mean, it goes on

546
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 2: and on. Why is that irritating me so much?

547
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 6: Joe jackalone, Well, it actually shows you that we treat

548
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 6: our prisoners a lot better than what some of the

549
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 6: activists are been doing us for years.

550
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: I think it's something else. I'm not listening to the

551
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 2: activists lying on the courthouse steps. It's the fact that

552
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: these guys, I mean, how hard is it. Dr Bethany Marshall,

553
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 2: you're the shrink And I hated doing this, Jeries, but

554
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: I did it every murder trial. I made them think

555
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 2: now it's actually against the law constitutionally for them to

556
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: put themselves in the shoes of the victim. That's disallowed

557
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 2: in most jurisdictions, but I would force him to think

558
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 2: about what the victims went through. Let's just think about

559
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 2: this and Dr Bethany Charlie Langston, Daily Mail Superstar, everybody

560
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 2: on the panel jump in if I'm missing anything. A

561
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: lady is lured to be alone with Rex Hueman, who's like,

562
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 2: what six five weighs about three at least deduce.

563
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 8: In a quarter six two hundred and eighty pounds.

564
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 2: That's less than I thought. So she's alone with him

565
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 2: and he begins to rape her vaginally and anally, and

566
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: during that torturing her and beating her until he strangles

567
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 2: her dead. Some of the victims of which I suspect him, dismembered.

568
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 2: They never what are their last thoughts as they're getting

569
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 2: raped and they're passing out. Just imagine that moment that

570
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 2: this is happening. Will they ever see their children again?

571
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 2: Will they ever see their family again? Or is this it?

572
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 2: And then they die? And this guy is getting cream

573
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 2: and tomato, soap and a grilled cheese sandwich.

574
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 7: Nantea's like he's being put in the center of mother's care,

575
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 7: back to the earliest part of life where everything is

576
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 7: provided for him. He doesn't have to work anymore, he

577
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 7: doesn't have to earn what he gets. He's sort of

578
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 7: at the center of things. Everything is brought to him

579
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 7: in some ways. It's like the ultimate example of being

580
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 7: catered to. Now, you and I may not want to

581
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 7: be catered to that way, but for someone like him,

582
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 7: he is at the center of things. And think of

583
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 7: this he and this other the hap that the smiley

584
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 7: face killer. They're giving it. They're passing little notes back

585
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 7: and forth like kids in the classroom.

586
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 2: And ragging about their pen power relationship. Charlie Langston, isn't

587
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 2: it true that Hueerman was arrested At the moment he

588
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 2: was arrested because police believed he was about to strike again.

589
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 2: A woman reportedly called police because he was following her

590
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 2: in a park and she got so freaked out she

591
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 2: left the park. She was there for a walk, maybe

592
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 2: with her dog, and human was following her around. And

593
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 2: he had just recently bought more minutes for a burner phone,

594
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 2: which was his mode of reaching and luring his victims.

595
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 3: He was about to strike again.

596
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 5: There were definitely suspicions that he was going to commit

597
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 5: more crimes, And I think that's what forced the investigators

598
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 5: to kind of take the step of arresting him when

599
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 5: they did. But the reality is when you look at

600
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,879
Speaker 5: the letters that were exchanged between Jess and Quemen, as

601
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 5: everyone has said, there's a sense of acceptance coming from

602
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 5: Human here. He's asking Jefferson whether he's going to get

603
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 5: butter for his bread in prison, as though he's thinking

604
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 5: about what life is going to be like when he

605
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 5: gets to prison. Jefferson has encouraged him to confess, telling

606
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 5: him that he should avoid the media circus that would

607
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 5: surround a trial, and also advising him that his life

608
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 5: in prison will be easier if he just pleads guilty

609
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 5: avoids the media circus, because that way other people in

610
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 5: prison will know less about his crime. He even said,

611
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 5: you know, you should avoid giving the prosecutors the opportunity

612
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 5: to gloat about the evidence that they have found against you.

613
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 5: And you know, if anyone's going to know whether or

614
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 5: not a person is a serial killer, it's another serial killer.

615
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 5: You said. It birds of a feather flock together. But

616
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 5: it also takes one to know one. And I think

617
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 5: that looking at Jefferson's correspondence with Human is incredibly telling.

618
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 2: And still wondering where are the indictments are for the

619
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 2: two additional women, Vergatta and Gilbert? How much longer do

620
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 2: their families have to wait for justice? And speaking of

621
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 2: the letters, Keith Rovere with us, author of the story

622
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 2: of You That's Why You and star of a hit podcast,

623
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 2: The Lighter Side of Serial Killers.

624
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 3: Keith Rovere, you do know that rex Hureman.

625
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 2: Was writing The Happy Face Killer and asking if Happy

626
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 2: Face got butter on his toast. That's what he's worried about.

627
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 2: He's not worried about the dead victims' families or what

628
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,439
Speaker 2: their children are going through growing up without their mother,

629
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 2: wondering what happened to her. He's worried about not getting

630
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: butter on his toast.

631
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 11: I think he's incapable of that. I mean, certainly, I'm

632
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 11: not a psychiatrist, but let's just assume psychopath or who

633
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 11: lacks empathy like Keith Jefferson did almost ten episodes on

634
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 11: my show going into detail about his crimes with so

635
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 11: lack of interest and empathy, joking about everything. I don't

636
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 11: think it's possible for him to He can he talk

637
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 11: about it? Certainly? Does he care? No, he doesn't have

638
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 11: His brain doesn't give them the ability to care or

639
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 11: to have empathy. I mean, that's part of what I do.

640
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 11: What I do is to learn more about them. It

641
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 11: wasn't that long ago we thought people with schizophrenia were

642
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 11: demon possess So I do what I do to learn

643
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 11: more about that. How does the brain work? Why don't

644
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 11: they have the ability to have fear? That's another thing

645
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 11: you can kind of read in a letter. There's no

646
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 11: fear in that letter. There's no fear. I mean, psychopaths

647
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 11: aren't deterred by fear. Certainly those who a degree can

648
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 11: tell a lot more than I can. But if you're

649
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 11: not deterred by fear, you have no empathy. Usually that

650
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 11: migile portion of the brain of front, the cortex, and

651
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 11: it's not working right. You're also doing the ability to

652
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 11: stop if someone bumps you on the shoulder and you

653
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 11: want to smack them. Oh, I better not. It's a

654
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 11: bad idea. They don't have the ability because your brain

655
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 11: doesn't function that way. So no, there's no fear. There's

656
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 11: no lack of empathy. That's the last thing on his

657
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 11: because it's incapable of feeling that way.

658
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 7: Jump in dout her bethany Sorry, However, The lack of

659
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 7: empathy is not because they don't know what other people

660
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 7: are thinking and how other people feel. They know, they

661
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 7: just don't care.

662
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 11: They can't feel it exactly. They can fake it, they

663
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 11: can discribe it.

664
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 2: So, Charlie Langston, as we are somehow getting sucked into

665
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 2: whether rex Hureman can relate to what he did to

666
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 2: his victims according to police. Charlie, I don't understand what

667
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 2: the hold up is now. It was a couple of

668
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 2: months ago we were told that DNA from a Vegas

669
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 2: murder victim is being compared to find out if she

670
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 2: is another of rex Hureman's victims. We know there is

671
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 2: a woman in South Carolina that was placed with human

672
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 2: just before she goes missing. When are we going to

673
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 2: see the results?

674
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 5: I mean, I think the issue here is that, you know,

675
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 5: it took thirteen years for anything to actually be done

676
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 5: after the remains of more than ten people were discovered

677
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 5: in Gilgo Beach. So thirteen years, I mean, you know,

678
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 5: people who have better understanding of criminal law will be

679
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 5: able to tell you more. But thirteen years is an

680
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 5: incredibly long time for people to be dragging their feet,

681
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 5: and that is not for lack of prompting from lawyers,

682
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 5: from family members. You know we were talking earlier about

683
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 5: Shannon Gilbert. You know, her mother up until the end

684
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 5: of her life was begging investigators to keep looking into

685
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 5: her daughter's disappearance and death. And it was actually the

686
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 5: discovery of her remains that prompted the investigation into rects

687
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 5: Huomen in the first place. But when you look at

688
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 5: how long it's taken for any action to really be

689
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,240
Speaker 5: taken on the part of investigators, I think it's tragic

690
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,439
Speaker 5: that nothing else has been done. I think it's devastating that,

691
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 5: you know, kind of multiple other bodies, multiple other victims,

692
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 5: are having their crimes go unsolved. But it doesn't surprise me, unfortunately,

693
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 5: because when you look at this case on the whole,

694
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 5: it has taken investigators so long to try and achieve

695
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 5: any form of justice. And is it surprising that humanman

696
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 5: was tempted to commit another crime when he went over

697
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 5: a decade without anyone holding him under a microscope and

698
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 5: looking at him as a suspect.

699
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 2: Right now, we are waiting as asa Elera breaks in

700
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: money and is being driven around in a silver Mercedes.

701
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 2: We wait to find out will there be other charges

702
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 2: as it relates to the Long Island serial killer suspect

703
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: Rex Human. Goodbye to