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Speaker 1: Hello there, Happy Thursday, and welcome to another episode of

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Speaker 1: the Chuck Podcast. So this is my Thursday episode. So

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Speaker 1: you know what that means. I got a little college

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Speaker 1: football at the end, and there's a bit of a

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Speaker 1: sports theme to this weekend. My guest, My long interview

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Speaker 1: for this episode is with ja Adande. I first started

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Speaker 1: reading him when he was at the La Times. Many

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Speaker 1: of you will hear his voice and see him and

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Speaker 1: recognize him from around the horn and the former ESPN

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Speaker 1: sort of reporter driven show back in the day, you know,

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Speaker 1: sort of the first derivative of PTI. Ja runs this

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Speaker 1: sports journalism program at Northwestern and you know, it's the

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Speaker 1: whole entire sports ecosystem is so dramatically changed so much

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Speaker 1: in the last few years, from the journalism side of things,

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Speaker 1: the business side of things, professionalizing college, all of that,

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Speaker 1: all of that's having You know, you gotta have a

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Speaker 1: real time impact on.

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Speaker 2: How you teach kids.

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Speaker 1: What are you teaching them? Those many many kids are

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Speaker 1: going to college. They want to they want to go

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Speaker 1: into the sports industry. You know, that was something that

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Speaker 1: I wish I had that opportunity in the early nineties.

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Speaker 1: I didn't quite know it didn't feel like an industry.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't anything you could study. If you wanted to

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Speaker 1: be a sports agent, you were told to go become

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Speaker 1: a lawyer and then you might find your way in.

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Speaker 1: And now my son's majoring in something called sports marketing, right,

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Speaker 1: and you can major in sports broadcast journalism, and so

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Speaker 1: you know, we really things have really changed, and they're

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Speaker 1: changing even faster now. So I really think you'll find

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Speaker 1: the conversation I had with Jaa. I'm actually working on

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Speaker 1: a couple of we're dabbling in a project or two together,

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Speaker 1: so I'm getting to know him a little bit and

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Speaker 1: he is just, you know, a terrific journalist many of

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Speaker 1: you already know that, but a terrific gentleman as well.

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Speaker 1: So I think you will enjoy this conversation. Again, it's

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Speaker 1: sort of the cultural zeitgeist of sports. In fact, we

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Speaker 1: tackle the issue of you know, there was a time

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Speaker 1: where sports, you know, led led us culturally and politically,

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Speaker 1: and I mean he makes a very strong case at

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Speaker 1: how actually, even as sports is becoming more popular, it's

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Speaker 1: actually retreating from its place in the cultural ecosystem. You're

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Speaker 1: going to have to listen to the entire interview to

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Speaker 1: catch where he wanted to go there. But before we

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Speaker 1: get to it, I want to start with not a

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Speaker 1: Q and A like, I'm going to have the as

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Speaker 1: Chuck on the other side of the interview, and yes,

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Speaker 1: I since since I know the real diehards, the Chuck Toodcast,

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Speaker 1: go all the way to the end because I want

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Speaker 1: to hear what I have to say about college football

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Speaker 1: that's also coming up as well. But I do want

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Speaker 1: to start with an interesting observation I got from one

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Speaker 1: of my I Over the years, I've created all I've

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Speaker 1: many political journalists. Any journalists, political politics, sports, whatever, you

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Speaker 1: develop pen piles, meaning you get just people, listeners, viewers,

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Speaker 1: readers will write in and and most journalists are like myself.

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Speaker 2: If it's a if it's a if it's a if.

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Speaker 1: It's a polite you know, critique or whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: you end up sparking up a conversation and you end

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Speaker 1: up with pen pals. And I've developed a share of

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Speaker 1: pen pals, well, one of my pen pals through this

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Speaker 1: observation at me. This was before we knew everything that

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Speaker 1: was going on with the East wing of the White House.

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Speaker 1: Okay we now know, Okay, we now know they're tearing

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Speaker 1: the entire the entire east wings being demolished this weekend.

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Speaker 1: Just let that sink in. Donald Trump has decided to

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Speaker 1: demolish the entire East Wing this weekend in order to

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Speaker 1: build his ballroom. He is putting a change to the

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Speaker 1: White House that hasn't been made since it was burned down,

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Speaker 1: arguably when the British were trying to get rid of it.

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Speaker 1: But this again, this person wrote me before we knew

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Speaker 1: the full extent of this demolition project by by foreman

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump, and he writes this, I think DJH is

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Speaker 1: making a miscalculation with the White House East Wing demolition.

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Speaker 1: Americans love the White House. I think it's the building

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Speaker 1: we revere the most. You can just think of the

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Speaker 1: historic presidents walking those halls, one after another, no matter

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Speaker 1: what party. The optics being circulated right now of the

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Speaker 1: expansive demolition are quite jarring. Maybe his base won't care,

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Speaker 1: but there might be a whole bunch of people in

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Speaker 1: the middle who aren't crazy about him unilaterally tearing down

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Speaker 1: a national treasure. And you know, I sort of touched

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Speaker 1: on it the other day, and I do think that

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Speaker 1: I do think that that Donald Trump right now is

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Speaker 1: sort of playing with matches in front of a gas

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Speaker 1: tank with He's more focused literally on everything other than

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Speaker 1: what he campaigned on. Right, He is not focused on

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Speaker 1: lowering costs. He is not focused on the on the

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Speaker 1: issue that got him elected, lowering costs and improving people's

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Speaker 1: lifestyles and giving them more opportunity. Perhaps you can make

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Speaker 1: an argument on that he is attempting to fulfill his

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Speaker 1: promise in Law and order with immigration and what he's

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Speaker 1: trying to do in the cities, So how he's doing

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Speaker 1: it is actually harming the economy and raising the cost

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Speaker 1: of everyday things. I mean, if you want to know

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Speaker 1: why chicken and beef are so expensive, just ask Ice,

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Speaker 1: okay on that front, And the point I was making

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Speaker 1: the other day on this is I think times a

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Speaker 1: thousand when it comes to sort of the symbolism that

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Speaker 1: he seems to be more consumed with enhancing himself, self

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Speaker 1: dealing and enriching himself and his family, becoming an actual billionaire,

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Speaker 1: trying to get his name in the history books, you know,

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Speaker 1: campaigning for an accolade. It's just so weird, you know,

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Speaker 1: most of us were not raised to campaign for accolades,

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Speaker 1: and yet he campaigns for the Nobel Peace Prize, and

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Speaker 1: you have US sentitors desperate for his endorsement, introducing resolutions

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Speaker 1: in the United States Senate, including one person who thought

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Speaker 1: he committed crime so great against the Constitution that he

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Speaker 1: should never be allowed to hold office again.

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Speaker 2: But that was.

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Speaker 1: Twenty twenty one. That was way back when. Now, of course,

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Speaker 1: reelection is paramount whatever it takes to get DJT.

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Speaker 2: To endorse you.

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Speaker 1: And you know there's a point here right with Trump,

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Speaker 1: and I think it happened to the first term. You know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of his of Trump's opponents are always looking

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Speaker 1: for there, always thinking this is going to sink them.

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Speaker 2: Aha.

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Speaker 1: Right, I go back to the comments about John McCain

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Speaker 1: when he said John McCain was no war hero, and

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Speaker 1: so many of us, myself include, thought, well, there's no

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Speaker 1: way he can survive in a Republican party. My goodness,

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Speaker 1: the chairman of the Republican Party when Donald Trump did that,

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Speaker 1: eviscerated Donald Trump. Well, that chairman would eventually become his

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Speaker 1: first chief is that and writes previous, Right, So trying

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Speaker 1: to predict the downfall of Donald Trump is something that

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Speaker 1: you will lose. You could lose a lot of credibility

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Speaker 1: trying to do. But over time, Trump wears out his welcome, right.

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Speaker 1: You know, the Apprentice was a success until it wasn't,

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Speaker 1: and then he like was desperate for attention. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we got the Gary Busey years, right, and you know,

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Speaker 1: just when it literally was about to get canceled, and

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Speaker 1: he knew it was going to get canceled, he didn't

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Speaker 1: want to go out of failure. So he looked like

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Speaker 1: he just was going through the motions on running for

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Speaker 1: president almost as an exit strategy, because he knew the

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Speaker 1: end was near for a show that people were just

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Speaker 1: sort of tired of it. You know, it was the plot,

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Speaker 1: the same plot over and over, you know, but how

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Speaker 1: crazier and crazier. You know, how many how much Dennis

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Speaker 1: Rodman do you need on your TV screen? How much

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Speaker 1: Gary Busey do you need on your TV screen? And

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Speaker 1: so now we're in the political world, and I do

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Speaker 1: think that you know, there are times when I think

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Speaker 1: it is a fair critique that Democrats get so focused

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Speaker 1: on some things that they take their eye off the

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Speaker 1: main ball, which is, you know, what do voters care about? Well,

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Speaker 1: this is a case where I think Donald Trump, he

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Speaker 1: is so focused on what he wants to do with

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Speaker 1: himself and his own ego that he's taken you know,

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Speaker 1: he's no longer mister America First. He is not putting

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Speaker 1: America first really under any circumstance. Right, he's so enamored

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Speaker 1: with his legacy building he has suddenly become mister foreign

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Speaker 1: policy president. Not the first president to do that. But

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get bogged down on that. But

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Speaker 1: it's this self dealing over time, right, and you start

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Speaker 1: to accumulate things. There was the meme coin.

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Speaker 2: You're like, what is he doing?

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Speaker 1: You're you're part of the crypto scam, okay, and he

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Speaker 1: did this. Then there was the plane and you're like, really, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's gross. And then it sort of came and went

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Speaker 1: by the way the plane's been. Boy, I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you ask Cutter, the plane is valued at somewhere around

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Speaker 1: a half a billion dollars, a little less than half

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Speaker 1: a billion dollars. And they've now gotten NATO like security

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Speaker 1: guarantees from the United States within five months of giving

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Speaker 1: that plane to him. That's a pretty good return on

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Speaker 1: investment on that one. Then we've had the shakedowns of corporations,

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Speaker 1: then of course, earlier this week we found he wants

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Speaker 1: to shake down the government. He so is trying to

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Speaker 1: rewrite history about the various ways that he fought the law,

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Speaker 1: and he wants to get financially compensated for the fact

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Speaker 1: that essentially his his political ambition got most of these

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Speaker 1: cases either dismissed or turned away because he got elected

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Speaker 1: office again, right, he didn't get off. He's not innocent

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Speaker 1: of stealing classified information. He's not innocent of what he

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Speaker 1: did on January sixth. He's not innocent on what he

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Speaker 1: did after the twenty twenty election. They just couldn't follow

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Speaker 1: through at the prosecutions because of a Supreme Court ruling

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Speaker 1: about the president and what kind of what kind of

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Speaker 1: legal issues could he be tried for and what kind

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Speaker 1: of immunities did he have. But the point is he's

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Speaker 1: not gotten off on any of these things. But now

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Speaker 1: he wants to be reimbursed to the tune of some

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Speaker 1: two hundred plus million dollars. And guess who would sign

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Speaker 1: off on that settlement. His former personal attorney who's now

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Speaker 1: a Deputy Attorney General, Todd Plant.

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Speaker 2: So you start to you put all these together.

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Speaker 1: So he's demolishing, you know, he paved over the Rose Garden,

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Speaker 1: he demolished the east wing to build sort of mar

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Speaker 1: a Lago Washington for a ballroom. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: you can make a legitimate this is one of those

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Speaker 1: cases where if he went about this through the proper

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Speaker 1: channels of the White House Historical Association, following through and

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Speaker 1: sort of how you do these things, I actually think

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Speaker 1: there would be bipartisan support for an expanded ballroom for

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Speaker 1: the White House. Okay, it is ridiculous how often they

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Speaker 1: erect tense. There's a big south lawn. They could do

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Speaker 1: more with it. Maybe they could put it together with

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Speaker 1: the with the with the large garage that they have

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Speaker 1: there where they keep the various vehicles for the presidential

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Speaker 1: limousines and stuff like that in the presidential suv. I

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Speaker 1: actually think you could get some sort of But of course,

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Speaker 1: you know, Trump has two issues with that. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: like asking anybody else's permission for anything, right, He just

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Speaker 1: doesn't like to abide by those things. And the second

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Speaker 1: thing is it would probably take longer. And he clearly

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Speaker 1: wants some of this. He wants to experience this these

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Speaker 1: things himself. But if the everyday life of middle class

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Speaker 1: and working class Americans not only don't improve in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five and twenty twenty six, but actually take a

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Speaker 1: step back. He is starting to venture in on what

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Speaker 1: I believe is let them eat cake territory, and you

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Speaker 1: can start to put together the accumulation of this. And

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Speaker 1: this is why I think, well, know one of these

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Speaker 1: we know this. He gets away with any one of

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Speaker 1: these things because in some ways people focus too much

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Speaker 1: on one thing and not enough on the big picture.

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Speaker 1: But let's take a look, if you will, at the

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Speaker 1: big picture when it comes to putting all this together.

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Speaker 1: So since he's come into office, all right, I want

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Speaker 1: to put together and I want you to understand, since

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Speaker 1: he's coming off, there's been no you know if you

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Speaker 1: want it, if you want to if you're looking for

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Speaker 1: the fastest growing family business in America right now, you

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Speaker 1: don't go to Silicon Valley or Wall Street. You go

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Speaker 1: to sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue. Because since Donald Trump has

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Speaker 1: returned to the White House, the Trump family has taken

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Speaker 1: this public power and turned it into private profit at

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Speaker 1: a pace that surpasses anything we saw during Teapot Dome.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons I did the toddcast Time

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Speaker 1: Machine the other day on Teapot Dome. So if you

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Speaker 1: look at the headline number, and various independent media outlets

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Speaker 1: have done Forbes, Fortune, the New York are all have

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Speaker 1: done various estimates on this, and the Trump family's collective

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Speaker 1: wealth in less than a year has grown by somewhere

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Speaker 1: between three and five billion dollars, so roughly doubling the

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Speaker 1: family's net worth in less than a year. And the

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Speaker 1: biggest driver is not real estate. You know he's to

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Speaker 1: be real. It is crypto. Let me get into the

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Speaker 1: details here. You know, it all began with the family's

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Speaker 1: flagship token, this Trump Mean coin, which is totally worthless, right,

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Speaker 1: that exploded into a multi billion dollar market because his supporters,

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Speaker 1: for one reason or the other, buy into this. They're

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Speaker 1: willing to buy this these this Trump Mean coin, which

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Speaker 1: is nothing more than a Franklin mint chochki if you

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Speaker 1: want to, But it had a market value at one

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Speaker 1: point of up to twenty seven billion. The Trump family

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Speaker 1: controls twenty of that twenty seven billion. Eighty percent of

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Speaker 1: all the meme coins are in their control. Now, look,

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Speaker 1: this could end up being worthless, right once they're out

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Speaker 1: of office. People may sell their coins, and whatever coins

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Speaker 1: they'll be worth what they actually should be worth, which

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Speaker 1: is zero. But you know, I think this is something

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Speaker 1: Trump's always wanted to Trump has always believed his name

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Speaker 1: is should be valued at a higher number, that his

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Speaker 1: brand is so great. It used to be the argument

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Speaker 1: he used to make with the Forbes folks when they

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Speaker 1: would do their billionaire list. Trump was always upset that

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Speaker 1: he was not higher on the list, and he'd claim

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Speaker 1: extra net worth just based on his name. In some ways,

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Speaker 1: this meme coined his put a figure on it, and

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Speaker 1: becoming president, you know, he got some twenty billion dollars

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Speaker 1: in equity value. Now, of course, this could easily be

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Speaker 1: bribery money, right. It's other countries, other sovereign wealth funds

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Speaker 1: buying this giving it. It's a way to bribe Trump

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Speaker 1: without actually having to hand him a check. Because if

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Speaker 1: you're buying his meme coin, you've raised the value of

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Speaker 1: the meme coin. So there's that in actual income. Now

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Speaker 1: that you know this, the Trump family also makes money

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Speaker 1: on every transaction of the said meme coin, so they've

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Speaker 1: actually made real dollars here outside of crypto money. Some

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Speaker 1: according to CNBC and Coin Desk, he's already He's raked

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Speaker 1: in just this year three hundred twenty four million dollars

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Speaker 1: in trading fees for Trump connected wallets. Okay, then there's

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Speaker 1: the second crypto project that the Trump family has done,

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Speaker 1: the World Liberty Financial, which is also part of Steve

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Speaker 1: Witcoffe's son is a part of this as well. So

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Speaker 1: the chief negotiator with all these foreign countries is also

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Speaker 1: financially benefiting in partnership with the Trump family. That venture

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Speaker 1: has raised more than five hundred and fifty million dollars

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Speaker 1: in tokens, and that's earned Trump about fifty seven million

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Speaker 1: dollars personally in just one year. And guests who are

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Speaker 1: some of the investors state owned golf investors, including a

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Speaker 1: two billion dollar deal with an Amorati firm MGX and Binance.

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Speaker 1: So no more real estate. He's making more money in

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Speaker 1: crypto than anything else. This is something that Trump still

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Speaker 1: knows nothing about, and basically most Americans don't. It feels

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Speaker 1: like some sort of invented wealth if you will there.

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Speaker 1: But yet, but wait, there's more. According to fortune Anaxios,

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Speaker 1: there's been eighty million dollars it's been given to the

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Speaker 1: family through Trump's Presidential Library. And that's been a mix

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Speaker 1: of legal settlements and corporate deals.

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Speaker 2: You've got the.

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Speaker 1: Forty million dollar Amazon documentary deal about Milania Trump, a

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Speaker 1: ten million dollar payout from x formerly is Twitter to

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Speaker 1: settle Trump's lawsuit for being deep Platform, fifteen million dollar

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Speaker 1: donation to settle a suit with Disney. We know the

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Speaker 1: paramount gave him another fifteen or sixteen million. You've got

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Speaker 1: Meta has also gave him a bunch of money. And

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Speaker 1: then there's the merchandising, right, the guy merchandises everything. Three

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Speaker 1: million from coffee, table books, nearly three million for Trump watches,

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Speaker 1: two and a half million from sneakers and fragrances. And

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Speaker 1: they also have their own tea, their own mobile phone line,

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Speaker 1: four hundred and ninety nine dollars a handset.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: Then you have more ways that the Trump family has

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Speaker 1: sold their name in the last year. There's Trump Tower

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Speaker 1: Jetta announced in Saudi Arabia, the luxury golf resort in Qatar,

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Speaker 1: backed by the country's sovereign Wealth Fund. So they already

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Speaker 1: gave him a plane, now they're giving him a golf

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Speaker 1: resort as well. There's Trump International Hotel and Tower in Dubai,

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Speaker 1: and another hotel is under construction in Oman. And then

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Speaker 1: there's a one point five billion dollar real estate partnership

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Speaker 1: in Vietnam that promises golf courses and resorts across the country.

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Speaker 1: That's just crypto in that. Now, let me throw in

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Speaker 1: what Jared Kushner's been up to the Southern Law. He's

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Speaker 1: got a private equity firm in Affinity Partners that manages

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Speaker 1: billions in golf state capital while he's also negotiating the

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Speaker 1: Israeli Gaza peace steal. He had a two billion dollar

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Speaker 1: investment from Saudi Arabia Sovereign Wealth Fund. Some of this,

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Speaker 1: we believe some of these negotiations on this fund that

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Speaker 1: he runs happened while he was still on a presidential

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Speaker 1: payroll in twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, before Trump left

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Speaker 1: for his first term. There's one hundred million dollars a

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Speaker 1: year in management fees just by just for managing money

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Speaker 1: from Qatar Ua in Saudi Arabia. Donald Trump Junior co

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Speaker 1: founded an exclusive executive branch club in Washington and he's

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Speaker 1: charging five hundred thousand dollars membership. Basically, hey, do you

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Speaker 1: want to be associated with the Trump name? In DC

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Speaker 1: at Kostia half a million dollars. So that's why his

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Speaker 1: personal fortune now is somewhere, according to Forbes, around five

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Speaker 1: to six billion dollars, and maybe about forty percent of

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Speaker 1: it is in crypto, which is much more volatile. We

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Speaker 1: know this, but he's literally was barely a billionaire when

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Speaker 1: he entered office, a second child, and now he's done this.

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Speaker 1: There's a reason results matter more than promises, just like

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Speaker 1: there's a reason Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury

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Speaker 1: law firm. For the last thirty five years, they've recovered

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Speaker 1: twenty five billion dollars for more than half a million clients.

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Speaker 1: It includes cases where insurance companies offered next to nothing,

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Speaker 1: just hoping to get away with paying as little as possible.

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Speaker 1: Morgan and Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact,

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Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, one client was awarded twenty six million dollars,

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Speaker 1: which was a staggering forty times the amount that the

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Speaker 1: insurance company originally offered. That original offer six hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars twenty six million, six hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars. So with more than one thousand lawyers across

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Speaker 1: the country. They know how to deliver for everyday people.

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Speaker 1: If you're injured, you need a lawyer, You need somebody

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Speaker 1: to get your back. Check out for the People dot Com,

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Speaker 1: Slash podcast, or dial Pound Law Pound five to nine

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Speaker 1: law on your cell phone. And remember all law firms

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Speaker 1: are not the same. So check out Morgan and Morgan.

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Speaker 1: Their fee is free unless they win. So he's got

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Speaker 1: all of that, and he's been, you know, remodeling the

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Speaker 1: White House as if it's one of his golf clubs

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Speaker 1: in either New Jersey or Florida, paving over the rose Garden,

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Speaker 1: knocking down the East Wing. That I think falls under

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Speaker 1: the let them eat cake mindset, and that is who

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Speaker 1: gets a pardon? Right, If you suck up to Trump,

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Speaker 1: you get a pardon. If you make it seem as

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Speaker 1: if you've been politically persecuted, you get you get a pardon.

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Speaker 1: It was not we don't think it was anything that

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Speaker 1: the founders ever wanted to see the pardon use. But

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Speaker 1: this is something that clearly that clearly has to get

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Speaker 1: changed because this has been abused to the point where

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Speaker 1: I think Donald Trump has single handedly undone the rule

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Speaker 1: of law in the United States just by the way

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Speaker 1: he manages this pardon nonsense. So let's start with you know,

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Speaker 1: anybody that calls themselves a political prisoner, Donald Trump will

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Speaker 1: somehow figure out a way to pardon you. Mass clemency

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Speaker 1: for the January sixth participants on day one is still

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Speaker 1: one of the most alarming decisions he's made. And we've

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Speaker 1: seen multiple recidivisms on this where people that were convicted

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Speaker 1: pardon have committed more crimes. We've got the guy that

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Speaker 1: was arrested for trying to kill Aqem Jeffreys, so you

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Speaker 1: have that. Then there were the separate commutations and pardons

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Speaker 1: for the head of the Oath Keepers, Stuart Rhodes, the

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Speaker 1: head of the Proud Boys, Enriquetario, and how did they

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Speaker 1: make their plea for a pardon publicly? They declared themselves

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Speaker 1: political prisoners. In fact, that's what Stuart Rhoades said. He

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Speaker 1: set the narrative, told the judge and un quote directly,

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Speaker 1: I'm a political prisoner, and like Donald Trump, my only

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Speaker 1: crime is opposing those who are destroying our country. That's

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Speaker 1: how he asked for his pardon. That's exactly what Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump wants to hear. And you know what his what

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Speaker 1: Enrique Tario wrote in a letter. His lawyer wrote in

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Speaker 1: a letter, Henry is nothing more than a proud American

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Speaker 1: that believes in true conservative values. These folks aren't even

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Speaker 1: making a case. These guys are getting pardons without even

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Speaker 1: claiming they've reformed, without claiming they've already you know that, Hey,

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Speaker 1: they've learned their lesson. No, they're saying they were aggrieved.

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Speaker 1: They were victims of this system in the same way

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump was a victim on that front. But it's

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Speaker 1: not just that. Take a look at the number of

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Speaker 1: people that have received pardons that were former members of Congress.

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Speaker 1: They're almost all Republican, and those that aren't Republican are

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Speaker 1: those that denounce the Democratic Party, like Rob Lagoyevitch in

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Speaker 1: order to get it. So you've got George Santos, he's

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Speaker 1: the most recent one. So how did he beg for

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Speaker 1: his pardon? Marjorie Taylor Green she sent a public letter

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Speaker 1: to the White House calling Santos's seven year sentence quote

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Speaker 1: a grave injustice and judicial overreach. And here's how she

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Speaker 1: made her argument for a pardon from Trump. Many of

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Speaker 1: my colleagues have committed far worse defenses than mister Santos.

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Speaker 1: Yet have faced zero criminal charges. Boy, that is pure

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Speaker 1: What about ism?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Like that is that Santos somehow deserves. But it's a

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Speaker 1: let them eat cake, right, the rules for thee but

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Speaker 1: not for me. And that's I think the pattern that's

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Speaker 1: developing that if your financial life isn't improving, this is

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Speaker 1: really going to piss you off, all right, the other people.

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Speaker 1: Let's look at the various folks that he's been giving

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Speaker 1: pardons to. Former member of Congress, former Republican governor John Roland.

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Speaker 1: He was pardoned for two separate federal corruption cases. Michael Grimm,

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Speaker 1: former New York congressman. He was pardoned for his tax

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Speaker 1: fraud conviction. Brian Kelsey, former state senator in Tennessee, pardon

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Speaker 1: for a campaign finance fraud. Even Michelle Fiori, a Nevada

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Speaker 1: Republican and member of the Las Vegas City Council, pardon

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Speaker 1: for fraud before she was even sentenced. She hadn't even

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Speaker 1: gotten her sentence yet. And how do they beg for

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Speaker 1: every single one of them? Their public defense, they're asked,

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Speaker 1: was that their prosecution was a political hit job, that

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Speaker 1: it was a weaponized doj. Grim has been dining out

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Speaker 1: on that claim for over a decade, so the pardon

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Speaker 1: was the final stamp of approval, and then you get

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Speaker 1: the attempt at the two tiered system. The point is

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Speaker 1: everybody's figured out how you publicly ask for a pardon

432
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 1: from Donald Trump. It is not that you have paid

433
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: your dues, it is not that you've learned your lesson.

434
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 1: It's that, like him, you were persecuted, you were aggrieved.

435
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,719
Speaker 1: And so when you see the sort of and this

436
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 1: is where I just look. This stuff is bad for

437
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: the republic. It's bad for the future of democracy. My

438
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: concern is once you set these precedents, that it becomes

439
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: a slippery slope and the next president, regardless of party,

440
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: will rationalize doing something similar by using an egregious thing

441
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: that Trump has done as the defense. Well, it's not

442
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: as bad as this, or it's not as bad as this.

443
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 1: We are we are setting horrendous standards for the rule

444
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: of law. We are sending horrendous standards for our elected officials.

445
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: If you are not held criminally account for defrauding taxpayers

446
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: and abusing your elected office, and essentially, if your side

447
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: is in power, you can get away and do whatever

448
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: you want because you'll be able to get a pardon.

449
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: You know, that's that's not just you know, we're already

450
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: at a kleptocracy as far as the Trump run government, right,

451
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: which is it's a pay as you go. If you

452
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 1: pay him in some form or another, you will get

453
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: preferential treatment.

454
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 2: Right.

455
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: The best example is cutter. This is a country that

456
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 1: arguably has been on more of an an enemy than

457
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: an ally to the United States. They offered aid and

458
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: protection to Hamas, aid and protection to the Taliban, two

459
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: entities that were literally fighting against you, the United States

460
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: or its allies. But one half a billion dollar plane later,

461
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: and Katar is now considered as important of a security

462
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: ally as Francis, all right, which is arguably our oldest

463
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,719
Speaker 1: ally where I think there's real political peril here. This

464
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: stuff's indefensible, you know how I know it's indefensible. There's

465
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: not a single Republican that in elective office that will

466
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: defend it. It will just say, oh, you guys in

467
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: the media, whenever you ask questions, they just sort of

468
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: flip it by attacking the media, or you'll hear these

469
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: questions like well, you know, hey, his supporters love when

470
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 1: he says these things, and his supporters still love him.

471
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: You know the rationale as well. It's fine, it's his base,

472
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: but I you know, there is an accumulation of this stuff.

473
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 1: And if your life isn't getting better, but he's pardoning

474
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: convicts who who are able to bribe him? If your

475
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: life's not getting better, but he's you know, hanging out

476
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: raising you know, hundreds of millions of dollars in a

477
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: slush fund from his inauguration, shaking down corporate executives that

478
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 1: if they want preferential treatment on tariffs, they give some

479
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: extra money to the ballroom fund or to the inaugural fund.

480
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: By the way, with the inaugural funds, he raised some

481
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: two hundred fifty million dollars. We have no idea he

482
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: can do whatever he wants with that money. For all

483
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: we know, that's just his expense account, now right, I

484
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: promise you My guess is he doesn't spend any of

485
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: his own money on anything. I mean, that's the thing

486
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: with him. He is no doubt it's somebow of the

487
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: inaugural fund pays for stuff. The building fund will pay

488
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: for stuff, the library will pay for stuff. You know

489
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: who won't pay for anything? Donald John Trump and that

490
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: self enrichment, This is again this is I think he's playing,

491
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: you know, I know he thinks he can shoot somebody

492
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: on Fifth Avenue and he won't lose a so porter,

493
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: I think he's really testing the premise here. He's knocking

494
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: down the White House, it is true, the most recognizable

495
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: building in America. He's already like put like car dealership

496
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: American flags up there, which kind of look tacky. You know,

497
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: I'm not going to criticize him for being patriotic, but

498
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: you know, do we have to be tacky about it?

499
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: Does it have to look like I'm driving down an

500
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: interstate in Texas where there's always these competitions between car dealerships.

501
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: This is the one thing I've gotten to see in Dallas,

502
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: of the road to DFW Airport. It's just this parade

503
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: of flags that if they ever, if they ever sort

504
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: of flew off the flagpoles, that would probably engulf multiple

505
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: cars at once. These flags are so big. I think

506
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: he's creating a huge sort of versus them. You know,

507
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: is he with you or is he with them? And

508
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: right now he is a them person. He is in

509
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: the let them eat cake mode. He is in the

510
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: elite mode. He is somebody who has benefited from running

511
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: against the supposed elites. But now he has created his

512
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: own set of elites who play by their own set

513
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: of rules. And I think if chicken is twice the price,

514
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: it's harder to get a car, a loan, it's harder

515
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: to find a home. This stuff is going to come

516
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: across when you start to aggregate it all together. You know,

517
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: instead of lowering your healthcare costs, he's been focused on

518
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: his ballroom, paving the Rose garden, knocking down the East Wing,

519
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: enriching himself with crypto buying land and foreign countries getting

520
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: hotel deals. You start to put all that together and

521
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: you're running on a but who's look looking out for you?

522
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: The populace. The person that won with with populism could

523
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: see his political career go down in flames via that

524
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: kind of populism.

525
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 2: All right, So with that, I will we will pause

526
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: it there.

527
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: We'll take a break for those listening on the entire

528
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: one download podcast. After the break, my conversation with Jada

529
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: Well joining me now is one of the legends of

530
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: sports journalism who has successfully navigated print, television, digital. He's

531
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: now at Northwestern University Director of Sports Journalism There It's Jay,

532
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: a very familiar face if you're a sports fan. Ja

533
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: donde ja Nice to see you, sir.

534
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 2: Thanks, yet each out appreciate it.

535
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: So there's so many directions we could go. I'm like,

536
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: which is the that I want to get into? Which

537
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: is this weird? I don't know who's copying? Who is

538
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: political talk show debate copying sports talk show debate or

539
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: sports talk show.

540
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: Debate copying political.

541
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: But actually, before we get into that, I want to

542
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: start with this private equity story with the Big Ten

543
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: and just sort of what this means and whether you know, Look,

544
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: you're you're a practitioner, you're not a part of the

545
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,239
Speaker 1: board of directors, you're not in these you know, in

546
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: these conversations. But what does this mean? Where's where are

547
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: we headed with college sports with this private equity and

548
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 1: is it is it actually something that is going to happen?

549
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 3: I think so that, for example, the momentum seems to

550
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 3: be there for the Big Ten to get this deal done.

551
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 3: They're talking about a two billion dollars infusion of cash

552
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 3: led primarily from what I've read from the California Teacher's Pension,

553
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: the primary investor.

554
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: Which is a fascinating it was in to there like,

555
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: we're not private equity. It's not a hedge fund, it's

556
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: a pension fund.

557
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, which actually made a big difference to me when

558
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 3: they said, Hey, it's not a private equity hedge fund.

559
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 2: You know, Colpers, which I think is the name of

560
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: the of the fund, seems a little more legitimate or

561
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 2: less ruthless. Right, I, as a.

562
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 3: Journalist or former journalists, kind of shiver when I hear

563
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 3: hedge fund of private equity because we've seen it ruin

564
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 3: the newspaper after newspaper. Right when they come in, they

565
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,239
Speaker 3: grip things down to the bare bones, and then you know,

566
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 3: see what they can extract from the carcass. So my

567
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 3: first instinct was to be very aware when I heard

568
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 3: they were looking for a private investment, but A when

569
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 3: I heard the source of the funds, but b the

570
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 3: fact that it would extend the current Big Ten arrangement

571
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 3: for another two decades. From a selfish standpoint, I was

572
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 3: glad to hear it because as a Northwestern alumni and

573
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 3: faculty member, I live in fear of the Big Ten

574
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,879
Speaker 3: and the SEC breaking off and away from the NC

575
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 3: douablea to former super conference with the best of the best, right,

576
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 3: because Northwestern would not be a part of that.

577
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 2: You know, when it comes and it feels inevitable, like.

578
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 3: The best of the best, I do think it's inevitable, Chuck,

579
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 3: But I think this would delay it. And this delays

580
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 3: the inevitable. I'm actually in favor because no part of

581
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 3: the new super league.

582
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: Right now, Watching USC and Michigan kill it two of

583
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: the teams that might be part of a super league,

584
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: you know, right tells you something. And certainly as an

585
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,399
Speaker 1: acc guy myself, I've watched everybody see each other over

586
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: this granted rights business and disputes over revenue sharing. But

587
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 1: let me dovetail this into sports journalism. How much of

588
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: the business of sports was a part of your beat

589
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: in your head in the nineties versus how much of

590
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: it now you have? How much more knowledge you have

591
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: to have to be a day to day sports reporter

592
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: on the sort of the business side of you know,

593
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: in well, if you don't understand the second apron, you

594
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: don't understand free agency in the NBI, right, And I

595
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: have to say it's a real differentiator now in sports reporters.

596
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 3: No, absolutely, and but there's a difference between you know,

597
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 3: the second apron and that talk is collective bargaining and

598
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 3: salary cap and that hasn't changed since when I first started.

599
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 3: I remember when I first started covering the Chicago Bulls

600
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety four, I met with their salary cap

601
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 3: expert who explained the salary cap to me. Now that

602
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 3: was many iterations of the salary cap would go very

603
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 3: different rules now, but you did have to have an

604
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 3: understanding of that. You know how things worked in the NBA,

605
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 3: but now you do have to have an understanding of

606
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 3: private equity and hedge funds and things like that and

607
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 3: how the markets move and react. Oh, the greatest example

608
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 3: was this year, this past school year, I started teaching

609
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 3: at class covering the business and sports, and it was

610
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 3: far from my expertise. I had to bring in a

611
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 3: lot of experts in the fields to talk about it.

612
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 3: But we did start with the cbas the collective bargaining agreements, right,

613
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 3: because if you're going to cover a professional sport, you

614
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 3: need to understand the collective bargin agreement and what goes

615
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 3: into negotiating that collective bargaining agreement.

616
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 2: Right.

617
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 3: So, I had represented a former representative of the NFL

618
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 3: Players Union. I've had other lawyers come up. I've had

619
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 3: a lawyer come in to explain the current name image

620
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 3: likeness in college sports. We've had people talk about kind

621
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 3: of the stadium game, right, and public funding for stadiums.

622
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 3: That's something you need to understand, not just business, but

623
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 3: the politics of stadium funding.

624
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 2: And then some of the more fun.

625
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 3: Things like collectibles or even sneakers, right, and shoe contracts,

626
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 3: and the influences that you companies have both in college

627
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 3: and professional sports. Right, all these things that weren't necessarily

628
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 3: a part. You know, the CBA part that hasn't changed.

629
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 3: You need to know the CBA. But aside from that,

630
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 3: there's whole worlds from private equity all the way to

631
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:13,720
Speaker 3: the collectibles market.

632
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: One of the growth academic areas to that essentially students

633
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 1: want to major in and this has been a I've

634
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: noticed it in journalism. You're the director of sports journalism.

635
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: There wouldn't have been a director of sports journalism at

636
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: Northwestern thirty years ago.

637
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 2: Correct, absolutely not right.

638
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 1: This is the growth area of journalism schools when I've

639
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: been at when I go to various journalism schools, and

640
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: we talk about because sort of you know, those getting

641
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: into non sports journalism are being told by their parents,

642
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: this isn't a place to get earn a living, right,

643
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: There's not great jobs out there, but the one place

644
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: where parents believe you can make a living is in

645
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: sports journalism, even if it's not in So what do

646
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: you make of that and how much is that transforming Middel?

647
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, I joked when at the time I got

648
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 3: this job. You know, none of the things I was doing,

649
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 3: including this job, existed when I was in school. And

650
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 3: you know that included appearing on ESPN on Around the Horn,

651
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 3: that included doing podcasts, that included writing for ESPN dot com,

652
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 3: and my role as director of sports Journalism. So it's

653
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 3: a completely different landscape than I was in the school

654
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 3: at four. You know, one of the reasons this role

655
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 3: was created was this has been you know, a great

656
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 3: recruiting device, particularly for response to demand. Yeah. Absolutely, both

657
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,919
Speaker 3: a responses demand and anticipation of you know, what would

658
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 3: be appealing in this modern era to get people to

659
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 3: want to go to a graduate journalism program.

660
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,879
Speaker 2: And you know, it's gone really well, including this year.

661
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,879
Speaker 3: We have I think the number is thirty one of

662
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 3: about one hundred and twenty of the great graduate students

663
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 3: are are in the Sports Specialization program, and it's a

664
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 3: very you know, this is the highest number we've had

665
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 3: so in it. You know, I won't say the journalism

666
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 3: field has gotten better over the past decade, you know,

667
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 3: I think we can be honest and say these haven't.

668
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 3: This hasn't been the best decade for journalism and media.

669
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 3: But this has actually increased what I am saying. Where

670
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,720
Speaker 3: I think the opportunities are are in live sports production.

671
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,959
Speaker 3: So it doesn't necessarily mean that things are great for

672
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 3: sports media overall. You know, the fact that Sports Illustrated

673
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 3: doesn't exist as we knew it, you know when you

674
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 3: and I were growing up, that's not good.

675
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 1: And that has been a destination, right, twenty year old

676
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,439
Speaker 1: Ja Donde, what do you man?

677
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 2: I hope to be writing for Sports Illustrated.

678
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: Like I would have said that about that great. I'd

679
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: have said that about Newsweek as a political journalist in

680
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: the early nineties. That would have felt like a destination. Boy,

681
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: if you're writing for Newsweek now, you're hoping to get paid.

682
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 3: What's crazy, though, was even you know as far back

683
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 3: to two thousand and seven when I took about from

684
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,720
Speaker 3: the La Times and I got a call.

685
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: From Sports Illustrated.

686
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say I got a job offer from Sports Illustrated,

687
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 3: but I did. You know, they did call and express

688
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 3: some interest. And by that time, you know, ESPN was

689
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 3: a much better option because you could write, you could

690
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 3: be on TV radio, but you know, they just it

691
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 3: was just a.

692
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 2: Much better vertical than Sports Illustrated.

693
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 3: And I remember thinking at the time, I can't believe

694
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 3: I would ever have a call from Sports Illustrated and

695
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 3: say thanks, but no thanks.

696
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 2: And that's pretty much what happened then. So, yeah, the destination.

697
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 3: I think if you're a writer right now, the Athletic

698
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 3: feels like the place where you'd want to be and

699
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 3: you want to go. And it's funny because it's only

700
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 3: been around what ten fifteen years at that yeah years.

701
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:50,280
Speaker 2: I don't think that was just can.

702
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:53,919
Speaker 3: But you know, if you're going up, I mean they've

703
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 3: they've invested. And that's why I tell all my students

704
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 3: you better subscribe to the Athletic because if that goes way,

705
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 3: that's it. So you know, if you have a dream,

706
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 3: if you want to be a sports writer, you need

707
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 3: to support this potential destination because if and when that

708
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 3: goes that's really the end of it for sports writing

709
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:12,439
Speaker 3: is there.

710
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: I mean, look, you know, the downfall of sports writing

711
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 1: is the same thing as the downfall of political journalism.

712
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: We wiped out local right, and yet the diversity of

713
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: sports writing was because of local right. What made Around

714
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 1: the Horn in its first iteration awesome was you got

715
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,280
Speaker 1: the sports writers from these great sports sections the Boston Globe.

716
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 3: We literally used to come to you from the newsrooms. Yes,

717
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 3: you know of our newspapers.

718
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 2: No, it's what gave it. It gave it.

719
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: Something extra, you know, like it was right out of it.

720
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: You know, back when being called an inkstained wretch was

721
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: a was a compliment, right, And I you know, look,

722
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: I'm trying to revitalize local news. I think that when

723
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: you look at our political, our information ecosystem. The reason why,

724
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: like the core of trust is developed locally, and once

725
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 1: you loose, once that's gone, everything else disappears.

726
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 2: Right.

727
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 1: If you don't have trust in local government, you're not

728
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: gonna have trust in national government. If you don't have

729
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: any local media, you're not gonna trust national media. I

730
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: actually think sports is the way to rebuild local media.

731
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 1: I think with the rise of interest in youth sports,

732
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: gender diversity of youth sports and how and the fact

733
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: that it's a Red America and Blue America both want

734
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: to see their kids succeed in youth sports. I see

735
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: it as a place to just sort of rebuild community,

736
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 1: and then from there you could start to then add

737
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: verticals into your local news environment that over time, you know,

738
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: as I say, if you're the place they go to

739
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 1: watch their kids play, eventually they'll trust you when you

740
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: tell them the city councilman's corrupt.

741
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 2: I think that's a noble option. The problem is there

742
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 2: have been so many alternative noble.

743
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: Which is always code for are like it may not work.

744
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 3: In part because, for example, you know, I don't have kids,

745
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 3: but my friends with kids, like there's apps where you know,

746
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 3: I've been with my friends when they're following you know,

747
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 3: their sons literally.

748
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: Trust me, there's five apps I got, Like, I just

749
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: became an empty nester.

750
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 2: So I just graduated from from the youth memory on

751
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 2: your phones, right.

752
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: Correct, I mean, And that is part of like I

753
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: actually think, if you can, you know right now, the

754
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: youth sports is very silented, and so I think the

755
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 1: real opportunity is figuring out how to look at it instead.

756
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: Of by sport, by community. But that is where the

757
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: I think the opportunity exists.

758
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 3: Well, I think, you know as recently again as fifteen

759
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 3: years ago. So I think you're right in terms of

760
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 3: there was an opportunity to focus on local sports and

761
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 3: build up from that, and that was the the initial game.

762
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 2: Plan for the athletic, was it?

763
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: They know, and I don't I hate that they're going

764
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,280
Speaker 1: away from that. That's right, that's the New York timesification

765
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: of the Athletic, right exactly.

766
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 3: But you know, again, I was happy to see the

767
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 3: New York Times by the Athletic because at least the

768
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 3: New York Times is in the journalism business, you know,

769
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 3: and so there were you know, among the consequences was

770
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 3: the dissolution of the New York Times owned sports staff, right,

771
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 3: So that wasn't good. But overall, I think it's healthy

772
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 3: to have the New York Times own in the athletic.

773
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 3: But the reason the Athletic became of interest to the

774
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 3: New York Times is the New York Times sees itself

775
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 3: as a national outlet. Like you could talk about the

776
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 3: decline of the New York Times local coverage, right, do

777
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 3: they cover City Hall like other people do, you know,

778
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 3: because it's all about scale, and the athletic went from

779
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 3: really trying to own all, you know, be a collection

780
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 3: a network of local markets to instead being a national

781
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 3: sports news outlet, and so that's changed. So, you know,

782
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 3: I think the problem is, you know, the type of

783
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 3: local coverage that you're proposing. I'm not sure anyone with

784
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 3: enough but deep enough pockets would be interested in that

785
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,240
Speaker 3: because it doesn't scale.

786
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting, you know, how would you describe

787
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 1: the local sports ecosystem now for information? Is it driven

788
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: primarily by podcasters? Is it driven by local ex sports

789
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: radio guys.

790
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 2: Who've sort of done their own youtubes? Is it? I know?

791
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: In college sports, I probably I just want to follow

792
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: the University of Miami. The Miami Herald still does a

793
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 1: pretty good job of it. They know that. Frankly, the

794
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: only reason I pay for the Miami Herald is for

795
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: their University of Miami football cover. So and you can

796
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,720
Speaker 1: tell with their sports they still have a semi vibrant

797
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: It used to be a great sports page. I think

798
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: it's it's like the Washington Post. They still want to

799
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 1: there's still a remnant of what it used to be

800
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 1: and they want to keep that they don't want to

801
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 1: lose it. But I get just as much from these

802
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: I don't know what to describe them. On three rivals,

803
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 1: you know that world? What what is? How would you

804
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: describe the local? You know, if you're a White Sox fan, where.

805
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:11,240
Speaker 2: Do you get your information?

806
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 3: Well, the problem is it used to be that's where

807
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 3: you would go to find out what's going on with

808
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:19,720
Speaker 3: the team. Right, they're going to re sign this player,

809
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:21,760
Speaker 3: this player is going to get traded if the manager

810
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 3: is going to get fired. But that's been nationalized and

811
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 3: upscale too. So if you think about the major sports, right,

812
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 3: the breaking stories, the trades, the injuries, everything you know

813
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 3: in the NBA, it's going to come from shams Farania,

814
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 3: like Adrian Wochnowski, you know who kind of held that

815
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 3: corner before.

816
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: Now the Houston Beat reporters going to get scooped by

817
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 1: shams when it comes to Kevin.

818
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 3: Durant news right, just not exactly, or or you know

819
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,720
Speaker 3: an Adam Schefter covering the NFL, et cetera. Jeff Passon

820
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 3: does a great job in Major League Baseball. You know

821
00:46:55,480 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 3: Ken Rosenthal, those guys. So the problem is it's so

822
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 3: much more efficient for the teams to leave sock toy

823
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 3: to those people, and you get it out everywhere, right,

824
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 3: rather than you know, if you leak it out to

825
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 3: your local news outlet, but it'll get picked up but

826
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 3: not as fast.

827
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 2: But here's the weird flaw on this.

828
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: If your team stinks for a period of time, Like

829
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: I say this, I grew up.

830
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 2: All my mom's family are white Sox fans. They're Southsiders

831
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 2: ex Southsiders, right, so right, it's been a tough you know,

832
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 2: it's been a tough.

833
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: Century, right, you know, to be a white Sox fan,

834
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:31,320
Speaker 1: they got the one bright light No.

835
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 2: Five.

836
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: But if you're a bad team, the national reporters don't

837
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: cover you, right, right, So then there's this black hole. Frankly,

838
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 1: if you're a if you're a have not team, right,

839
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: Cincinnati Reds, Chicago White Sox, uh, Colorado Rockies, your whole

840
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: where do you get your info? If your local news

841
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 1: environment is just not very you know, supportive of a

842
00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: of a sports section.

843
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 3: We've seen some things pop up like h I think

844
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 3: it's starting Denver that the NBR and uh the Chicago version,

845
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 3: I think it's hgo. So look, websites and podcasts that

846
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 3: are focused on the team, local sports or what. Yeah, yeah,

847
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 3: they're just focused on that city sports. But what you

848
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 3: don't get is necessarily that that breaking news, right because

849
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 3: they're not necessarily at the ballpark covering the teams. They're

850
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 3: you know, they're not in the arena. You know, they're

851
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 3: not cultivating the sources. So you can get plenty of

852
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 3: discussion about the teams and if you're you know, if

853
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 3: you want to have a debate about who should you know,

854
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,320
Speaker 3: what the rotation should look like, right, or who should

855
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 3: be the closer? And should they bring this guy up

856
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 3: from from Triple A? You can get that discussion and debate,

857
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 3: and there's forums for that and you can listen in

858
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 3: and you can participate. But where's the news going to

859
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:56,240
Speaker 3: come from? And what's the responsibility of journalists and holding

860
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 3: people accountable?

861
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 2: Right?

862
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 3: So who can hold people to account? Who can put

863
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 3: pressure on teams? You know, why have the White Sox

864
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,839
Speaker 3: been allowed to be this bad for this long?

865
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 2: Right? In part because they're not, like justice local media

866
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:11,240
Speaker 2: putting the pressure.

867
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 3: They don't always have beat writers, like the Tribune doesn't

868
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 3: cover the White Sox full time as a beat, right,

869
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 3: So when that happens, when no one's you don't have

870
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 3: a watchdog of science.

871
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 2: That's how you get this type of thing.

872
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 3: And then you don't hear the the White Sox pop

873
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 3: up once again, you know, when they're looking to fund

874
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 3: the stadium.

875
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 2: Right.

876
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: That gets to something that I think is very challenging

877
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: in the journalism field. And I'll give you an expression

878
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: that is frowned upon in the political world, but I

879
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 1: would argue is a necessity in the sports world, and

880
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 1: that is quote unquote access journalism. I think if you're

881
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,800
Speaker 1: a beat writer, you have to have access to the ballpark,

882
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: you have to have access to the team headquarters. And

883
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:08,760
Speaker 1: these are private enterprises. They can choose to say, Jay.

884
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 2: You're a jerk. I don't like you. You're out not

885
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 2: credentialing you.

886
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 1: And you're like, you know, there's no there's no Freedom

887
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: of Information Act, right, just sort of like I've always said,

888
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 1: you know, the Pentagon reporters got kicked out. There's going

889
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 1: to be ways to force the publication of certain information

890
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: and it's not ideal. And you know, I think you

891
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: can do seventy five percent of reporting on politics remotely

892
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 1: the difference makers at twenty five percent, it being their matters.

893
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: I believe that was sports too. But it's a fine

894
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: line on access, Joeneral, you talk about accountability. If Dan

895
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:52,879
Speaker 1: Schneider kicked the Washington Post out of out of right,

896
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 1: the team facilities wouldn't let them, wouldn't let them in.

897
00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 1: And then therefore, over time, Washington fans stopped going to

898
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: the Post for information because they didn't have it. How

899
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 1: do you view that line? You're now, you're teaching these

900
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: young journalists. Where's your head on this? Because I think

901
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: it's an extra challenge that sports journalists have. Frankly, we

902
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: political journalists don't.

903
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,919
Speaker 3: And it's gotten tougher, and in part because it used

904
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 3: to be they would absorb, you know, the team would

905
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 3: have to absorb whatever you said about them, good or bad,

906
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,240
Speaker 3: because they needed you. Right, if you were a fan,

907
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 3: something as basic as what time is the game tonight

908
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 3: and you know what TV station is it on, you

909
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 3: would have to go to the newspaper to get that

910
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 3: basic information.

911
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 2: Right that the newspapers were vital if you.

912
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 3: Were a team getting any type of information out about

913
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,839
Speaker 3: your your franchise, you needed the newspaper, right, and so

914
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 3: you couldn't afford to shut them out.

915
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 2: Now you can't afford to shut them out.

916
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 3: Right, you can have your own stories on your website

917
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,280
Speaker 3: and through your social media feeds, so you don't need

918
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 3: the newspapers or the local media to tell the stories

919
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 3: and to get the word out about your team. Uh.

920
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 3: So we have seen a good example was was was

921
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 3: Leon Sanders at Colorado basically banning a columnist that he

922
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 3: didn't like, right for for the opinions that that columnist had.

923
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 3: So it has become a lot easier because you don't

924
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 3: need them. You have to absorb whatever people had to

925
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,240
Speaker 3: say about you because you needed them to say something

926
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 3: about you.

927
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 2: Now that they don't, you know, we've.

928
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 3: Seen it's still there's still kind of some legacy where

929
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 3: you know, the leagues will try to enforce some rules.

930
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,280
Speaker 3: You know, you have to have certain access.

931
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 2: You know, there's.

932
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 4: There's seems pretty good about it, right yeah, yeah, yeah,

933
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 4: you know Baseball Writers Association, you know, the Pro Basketball

934
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 4: Writers NFL.

935
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 3: Right, Right, so you've got advocate groups that will try

936
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:56,799
Speaker 3: to fight to protect access for people. But also just

937
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 3: because they can credential you, Now it doesn't mean you're

938
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 3: going to see players in the locker room or the clubhouse.

939
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 2: Right.

940
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:04,839
Speaker 3: The you know started in the nineties. In the two

941
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 3: thousands the stadiums were designed. There's so many behind the

942
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 3: scenes places that you know, no matter how long the

943
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 3: locker room is opened before the game, you might never

944
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 3: see a guy because he's back in the trainer's room,

945
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 3: which is off limits. So they've got a players lounge,

946
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 3: it's off limits. So even with the access, that doesn't

947
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 3: mean you can talk to them. One thing I am

948
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,800
Speaker 3: glad about is that we I thought the pandemic was

949
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 3: going to be an opportunity for these.

950
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 2: Leagues to really sell it the media. For safety protocols.

951
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 3: You know, no one was allowed in the locker room

952
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 3: or on the field before the game, and to the

953
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 3: league's credit, they basically restored the pre pandemic access once

954
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:43,959
Speaker 3: once the pandemic was well.

955
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:45,879
Speaker 1: I tell you, in the world of political I mean,

956
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 1: my fear at the time was I'm never going to

957
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: get an onset guest ever again, the minute everybody figured

958
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,319
Speaker 1: out and that has been harder for all of the

959
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 1: Sunday shows. You can still get it, but you've got

960
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: a compromise. As all sorts of principles. You got to

961
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 1: pre tape it or you got to do it on

962
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 1: their schedule, or you know, you don't have.

963
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 2: Any of the sort of well, look this is when

964
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 2: we tape.

965
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:09,399
Speaker 1: If you want to be on, you got to come now, right,

966
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 1: Which maybe in the eighties or nineties you could have

967
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: done a flex like that.

968
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 2: You don't get the flex like that anymore.

969
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 3: So one difference, huge difference between political coverage and sports

970
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 3: coverage is that in sports we just have these hard

971
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 3: to find, undeniable truths. This team won, this team loss.

972
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 3: The quarterback threw three touchdowns, or he threw three interceptions,

973
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 3: or here's the data to back up your one thing.

974
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,479
Speaker 3: Where there's been this divergence. You know, you talked earlier

975
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 3: about the similarities, but one of the main divergences is

976
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 3: sports is one of the last place where we're not

977
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:51,280
Speaker 3: debating the actual facts. We can have debate about whether

978
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 3: it's good or bad. You know, we can debate whether

979
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 3: it show tale Otani put on the greatest postseason performance

980
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 3: in playoff history. We can debate that, right, but we're

981
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 3: not debating the fact that he pitched six set out

982
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 3: innings and hit three home runs and struck out ten

983
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 3: and the Dodgers won.

984
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:07,799
Speaker 2: Right.

985
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 3: So, in politics, you know who's responsible for the government.

986
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 2: Shutdown, right?

987
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 3: Or you know if and when more subjective? Which side

988
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 3: one right? You know we're going to have a debate?

989
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 3: Oh who this side one or this side one?

990
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 2: Right?

991
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 3: The beauty of sports is that it's clear cut and defined,

992
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 3: and we have winners and luke losers and the outcome

993
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 3: is not subject to debate.

994
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: Well, that's a nice transition to the state of sports talk, right,

995
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 1: which is Look, as a fan, I love it in

996
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 1: some ways, but it has gotten to the point of

997
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 1: where it feels formulaic and like the WWE, right, meaning

998
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,799
Speaker 1: I don't know if the takes are real or if

999
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:58,800
Speaker 1: the takes are designed to get traffic. And look, I

1000
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 1: feel that way about television politics right now. The one

1001
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: thing ESPN, Fox Sports One, MSNBC, CNN, Fox News all

1002
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:15,359
Speaker 1: have in common is that they have shrinking platforms, right,

1003
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 1: So they're fighting over a shrinking a shrinking base of

1004
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 1: potential viewers. Well, how do you assess the evolution of

1005
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: sports talk and what it was sports reporters? Right? Some

1006
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 1: people might say the old beat the Press right for sports,

1007
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 1: which is the way I always viewed it. In fact,

1008
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:37,840
Speaker 1: as a consumer, I used to watch Beat the Press

1009
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:42,320
Speaker 1: sports reporters was right after that. I watched eleven thirty

1010
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 1: this week. I used to literally watch all three as

1011
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:49,280
Speaker 1: my Sunday routine. And what we have today with Steven

1012
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 1: A or Pat McAfee or my friend Colin Coward, Like,

1013
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to single because I know

1014
00:56:56,560 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 1: everybody says, well, it's Steven A, it's it's there's.

1015
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 2: Four or five guys that are in this space.

1016
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 1: What do you think? What do you make of the

1017
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: evolution of it?

1018
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 3: So I agree that the early model to the sports reporters,

1019
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,840
Speaker 3: for example, was more based on the political debate shows

1020
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,399
Speaker 3: like A Crossfire or something like that. Right, but keep

1021
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 3: in mind that, you know the modern version, the twenty

1022
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 3: first century version that's kind of led the way for everything,

1023
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 3: which was part of the interruption. The template for that

1024
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 3: was Ciskel and Ebert, right to movie critics who would

1025
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 3: debate and argue. And it's funny because they were diff.

1026
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 1: And now I want to think of Tony and Micah,

1027
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 1: Ciskel and Ebert one hundred percent, I'm I might throw

1028
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: that at Tony when I do.

1029
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 3: That was a model, you know, you know Mark Mark

1030
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 3: Shapiro who basically came up with the concept for it.

1031
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 3: He was running ESPN at the time and he wanted

1032
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 3: a sports version of Cisil and Ebert. So yeah, they

1033
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 3: will take that as a compliment obviously. And then the

1034
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 3: producer Ic ride Home of the show came from Chicago,

1035
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 3: so he was influenced both by Ciskel the eBird who

1036
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 3: were to Chicago based uh, movie critics, and also the

1037
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 3: original the sports writers on TV, which was the first

1038
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 3: one of those, which was Chuck. Again, we talked local

1039
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 3: to national. That was a local thing, but they did

1040
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 3: talk about a lot of national issues, but it was

1041
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 3: based here in Chicago.

1042
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: And Corneizer got their start on local Channel four here

1043
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 1: in DC.

1044
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, in Washington. Yeah, so.

1045
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 3: You know that the other thing is is there that

1046
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 3: kind of path from local to national, you know, and

1047
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 3: it's going to be harder and harder to find. I think,

1048
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 3: you know, people getting a start locally and then and

1049
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 3: then going up to the bigger stage. But so you

1050
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 3: went from a political model to this kind of movie model,

1051
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 3: which was more contentious. Uh you know, Cisco Neeba, We're

1052
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 3: a lot more contentious. But the interesting thing was that

1053
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 3: again it wasn't a winnable argument, right, you like the movie.

1054
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 2: I don't like the movie.

1055
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 3: Neither one of us is, you know, objectively right, Right,

1056
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 3: it's a matter of taste. Around the Horn, which was

1057
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 3: descended from Party Interruption, but it was based on the

1058
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 3: premise that you could win an argument, which was patently absurd.

1059
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 2: Right.

1060
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 3: The whole premise around the Horn that there's points and

1061
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 3: that you can score more points than someone else on

1062
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 3: this argument is absurd because there is no winning the

1063
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 3: argument of who's the greatest player in right? There is

1064
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 3: no right answer. So it was it was all a

1065
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 3: joke in a way, right, that we're gonna Well.

1066
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,439
Speaker 1: That's what I appreciate about Around the Horn is that

1067
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 1: I felt like everybody's kind of in on the joke.

1068
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you'd be surprised, you'd be surprised. But what

1069
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 3: was funny to me was, you know, I didn't really

1070
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 3: care if I won or our lost.

1071
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 2: I got paid the same either way.

1072
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 3: In fact, it used to be you could get eliminated

1073
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 3: with two rounds ago. Now it's you couldn't eliminate with

1074
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 3: one round to go, but you get paid the same.

1075
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 3: So in some ways you're better off losing early because

1076
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 3: you're getting more money for less work or you're getting.

1077
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 2: The same money, save money for us work. Yeah, but

1078
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 2: you know it didn't bother me.

1079
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 3: I could very easily lose and then be out the

1080
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 3: door and be on my way for the rest of

1081
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 3: the day. Sometimes I request to be eliminated early because

1082
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 3: I might have a flight, or I had to go

1083
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 3: cover practice or something so they could get out here early.

1084
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 1: Or I don't I don't have a good rant like

1085
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 1: right the war I got do, I got something to shill, right, like,

1086
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 1: I don't have anything to say this week.

1087
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 2: Don't make me win exactly, Yeah, eliminate me.

1088
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 3: But what I found was that people would come up

1089
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 3: and the people were invested in whether or not you win.

1090
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 2: The knop who watch the show are these people that

1091
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 2: think wrestling is real.

1092
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 3: So wrestling, what I mean, most wrestling outdes most sporting events, right,

1093
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 3: So there's a huge audience for that for that fake competition,

1094
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,439
Speaker 3: I mean around the Horn was fake competition that it's

1095
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 3: no no secret, no trade secret, I'm getting out there.

1096
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes it would be predetermined. Very often it

1097
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 2: wasn't right. It could be at the whims of the host.

1098
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 3: But there was sometimes where some you know, maybe somebody

1099
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 3: had a guess that they wanted to bring in at

1100
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 3: the end, or it was there one thousand episodes, it'll

1101
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 3: be nice to give them a victory on that episode

1102
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 3: or something like that. Right, So sometimes it was predetermined,

1103
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,439
Speaker 3: so yes, you know, if you bet on it, you know, hey,

1104
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 3: that was it.

1105
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 2: But people cared so much so it made me start

1106
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 2: to care who won or lost. That's interesting.

1107
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 3: People get invested whether or not it's actually real competition.

1108
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 2: Well, I want to finish this so we don't have

1109
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 2: it anymore.

1110
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 1: What does that say that we're going more to the

1111
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 1: singular influencer model because that was a collective influencer model, right,

1112
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 1: this is now it's McAfee and he has a cast

1113
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 1: of characters, or it's stephen A. He's got his cast,

1114
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 1: even to a much lesser extent. I'd say Greenberg, you know,

1115
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 1: or that, But I guess we have a new iteration.

1116
01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 1: How would you describe it?

1117
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:03,479
Speaker 3: So it's not that, you know, the paying all the uh,

1118
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 3: all the people, all the panelists was the problem, right,

1119
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 3: because you could add up what we all made, and

1120
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 3: it wasn't what stephen A made. It was the fact

1121
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 3: that from the corporate side, they're looking at the cost

1122
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 3: of production So the thing about a McAfee of steven

1123
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 3: A is those guys can eat up a couple hours

1124
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 3: each right with pro with good viewership, with the same

1125
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 3: production Whereas you know, it was inefficient to have Around

1126
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 3: the Horn for a half hour, PTI for a half hour,

1127
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 3: even though it was under the same production umbrella, you

1128
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 3: still had two different groups of producers, right, you know,

1129
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 3: the studio time, satellite time, you know all those things.

1130
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 3: So the reason why that model is winning the cow

1131
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 3: herd is that if you can have one person that

1132
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 3: can eat up two hours with one production group, that's

1133
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 3: what they're gonna that's what they're going to go for.

1134
01:02:56,600 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 3: And you know, the ultimate reason people say, well, why

1135
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 3: did Round Horn go away? We're going to see the

1136
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 3: end of the studio show because as these I agree,

1137
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 3: as these you know, the espns and the Foxes go

1138
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 3: from TV stations where you have to fill up twenty

1139
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 3: four hours to streaming where it's on demand. You know,

1140
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 3: the only reason Around the Horn and PTI existed in

1141
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 3: the first place was because you needed something on the

1142
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 3: air before the game started. You know, during the day

1143
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 3: when there's no games, you need something to fill that up.

1144
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 2: So now they're just going to look for the things.

1145
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 3: You know, can we get you know, can we go

1146
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 3: from steven A to McAfee And there's four hours with

1147
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 3: two people.

1148
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 4: And two production groups, and so you know they'll stay

1149
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 4: when they don't have to own the show, right, they're

1150
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 4: going to license.

1151
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 2: I think this.

1152
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 1: I think this is where you know, it's funny. At

1153
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 1: first you could argue Sports Talk was copying politics. Now

1154
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 1: I kind of think political news is going to copy

1155
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 1: sports and you're going to see I fully expect the

1156
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 1: pod that they you know, the new version of MSNBC.

1157
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 2: They're going to call it ms now.

1158
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 1: Their next couple of hosts streaming site. Right, they may lice.

1159
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:04,280
Speaker 1: They may say, hey, I mean, look, I'm part of

1160
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 1: a group right now for something called Newsphere, where everybody

1161
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:09,800
Speaker 1: owns their own content, but everybody's going to share the

1162
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:13,760
Speaker 1: revenue of the subscription. You know, so you may license

1163
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 1: a show so that hey, your linear television exclusive home

1164
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 1: for Pat McAfee. But he's going to have his you know,

1165
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:25,680
Speaker 1: own his own studio over here, and he's going to

1166
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 1: own his production over here, and he's going to sell

1167
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: this and monetize this and monetize that. And in some

1168
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 1: ways the legacy media companies. Hey, that's ten less people

1169
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 1: they're paying health care.

1170
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 2: For exactly, and then we're going to start to see

1171
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 2: the remundling. Right, who is that? There's two streamers that

1172
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 2: just announced that they were going to partner.

1173
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 1: Netflix and Spotify, right, yeah, right, where Spotify's licensing content

1174
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 1: to Netflix? And what is this really about? Not allowing

1175
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:55,480
Speaker 1: those shows to show up on YouTube? So suddenly Netflix,

1176
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 1: Well what's interesting is who's who's the king of the

1177
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:01,160
Speaker 1: hill right now?

1178
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:01,640
Speaker 2: Right?

1179
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 1: It's essentially Netflix and YouTube and they're the two giants, right.

1180
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 1: Everybody else is much less. Right. If you want to

1181
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 1: pitch a new TV show, Netflix is where you want

1182
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:17,160
Speaker 1: to be first. That's number one. When you get rejected there,

1183
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 1: then you start to move out to everybody else, and

1184
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 1: then yeah, go ahead.

1185
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 2: And Netflix is not looking for the debate shows like

1186
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 2: we've seen.

1187
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:33,120
Speaker 1: No, although I'm curious they're licensing these ringer shows, which

1188
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:35,920
Speaker 1: are what I would say are light debate shows like

1189
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:39,600
Speaker 1: Simmons isn't a hot hot take guy, but there's certainly

1190
01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 1: takes on it and it is has point of view,

1191
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 1: you know, But you're right, I don't think it's a debate.

1192
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, And.

1193
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 3: I mean what's interesting is that you know, these successful

1194
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 3: podcasts are like local and that it's an intimate relationship, right.

1195
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 3: I Mean, the whole thing local was that it just

1196
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 3: built community base, and the successful podcasts have built these

1197
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,920
Speaker 3: large communities. But podcasting is such an intimate medium, so

1198
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 3: in some ways it replaces that intimacy of local, but

1199
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 3: at a much bigger scale, in the national scale.

1200
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 2: Jay I talk about this all the time.

1201
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 1: The biggest difference for me doing a podcast versus doing

1202
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 1: Meet the Press is I'm much less of a jerk

1203
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 1: because you know, look, part of it is you had

1204
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 1: a finite amount of time and they were sort of

1205
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 1: like I always say, look meet the Press sixty minutes.

1206
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:32,840
Speaker 1: Certain brands are above the individual and you're there, and

1207
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 1: there's an expectation of accountability in a podcast, you they

1208
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 1: your audience is choosing to hear you, and it is

1209
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 1: a personal relationship. I mean, I don't know about you.

1210
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 1: There are times where you hear this and you're like, hey,

1211
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 1: I was I'll tell my wife something I heard on

1212
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 1: a podcast and it's like, you know, I was talking

1213
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 1: to somebody. No, I wasn't, I was listening. I was

1214
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 1: eavesdropping up somebody else's conversation, but it feels that intimate.

1215
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 1: And what it means is always say this to guests

1216
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 1: that are always like, oh, what's Chuck Todd am I

1217
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:06,080
Speaker 1: going to get? And I said, look, we're not. You know,

1218
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you tough questions, but I'm going

1219
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:13,640
Speaker 1: toward them friendlier because the audience won't bother to They

1220
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:16,920
Speaker 1: don't want to be made to be uncomfortable. Like it's

1221
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 1: a real interesting balance you've got to have in this

1222
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 1: intimate relationship that you have with your viewers or listen.

1223
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 3: And I mean it was similar when you know, we

1224
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:29,040
Speaker 3: started the newspapers and then the blog started showing up.

1225
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 3: You know, blogs are a lot more personal. You know,

1226
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 3: if I'll write for the La Times, there's a certain

1227
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:37,800
Speaker 3: formality that comes with it and it's not about me.

1228
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 3: But if you come to my blog, then it is

1229
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 3: much more about me, you know. And I had even

1230
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 3: I had a blog.

1231
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:46,200
Speaker 1: On the LA might share your dog or you're you know, hey,

1232
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:47,720
Speaker 1: we got a new cat in the house, no dog

1233
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 1: in the house or something like that.

1234
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 3: Right, is two different voices that I had when I

1235
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 3: was writing for the newspaper and writing for the blog

1236
01:07:55,240 --> 01:08:02,920
Speaker 3: that was on the newspaper side.

1237
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 1: The last sort of topic I want to get to

1238
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 1: is the infusion and the professionalzation and gambling, right, and

1239
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:19,599
Speaker 1: what is this meant for sports journalism? And because there's

1240
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:22,840
Speaker 1: a certain amount of journalism that goes into these analytics

1241
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:27,480
Speaker 1: sites that are about gambling, there's certainly you have generational

1242
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:31,599
Speaker 1: discomfort with how much gambling, Like I've got older relatives

1243
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 1: are like, why does everything have to be about the

1244
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 1: point spread now during a pregame show? And then there

1245
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:38,639
Speaker 1: are other people that are like, why do they waste

1246
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 1: their time on all these soft shows?

1247
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 2: Just give me some data that I need to decide

1248
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:46,719
Speaker 2: what game I'm going to better? Where does this fit

1249
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:48,280
Speaker 2: in your journalism program?

1250
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:52,640
Speaker 3: So we've talked about that's one of the things. You know,

1251
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:55,840
Speaker 3: we had a segment on in my Business.

1252
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:56,320
Speaker 2: And Sports class.

1253
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 3: Right, you have to talk about gambling, And I make

1254
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 3: it very clear that that's the smartest audience, Like you

1255
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 3: have to be the most precise when you're addressing that audience,

1256
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 3: because for the most.

1257
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 2: Part, you might know more than the audience.

1258
01:09:11,320 --> 01:09:13,920
Speaker 3: Generally you do, but with gambling, they're so you know,

1259
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:16,600
Speaker 3: this is their money at stake. So they're hyper invested,

1260
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:18,719
Speaker 3: so they might know more than you and they certainly

1261
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:23,160
Speaker 3: you have to know all the terminology, right, so either

1262
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 3: you have to go all in. You can't just touch

1263
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:28,880
Speaker 3: it lightheartedly, right, You're of no use that point. So

1264
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 3: it's really important. What I like about it is it's

1265
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 3: creating more opportunities. Again, we talked about things that didn't exist.

1266
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 1: This has opened up the market for sports journalists in

1267
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:41,400
Speaker 1: some ways.

1268
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 3: Initially they were more interested in content and editorial content less.

1269
01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:50,200
Speaker 3: So now but I do think there's still you know,

1270
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:53,439
Speaker 3: there's still a niche and probably a lucrative niche right

1271
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:56,599
Speaker 3: to speak to that audience because the audience is huge.

1272
01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:02,840
Speaker 3: So the importance of no knowing the lingo, right, knowing

1273
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:04,920
Speaker 3: all the jargon that goes with it, being able to

1274
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 3: speak that language. And then it just places a premium

1275
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:10,280
Speaker 3: on being accurate more than ever.

1276
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:11,639
Speaker 2: Right, you always want to be accurate.

1277
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 3: But now again, if somebody makes a bet based on

1278
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:17,160
Speaker 3: a report that you had that turned out to be inaccurate,

1279
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:20,759
Speaker 3: you know they might find you in this day and age,

1280
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 3: so the importance of accuracy, but it's also elevated, you know.

1281
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:27,840
Speaker 3: One of the reasons Adam schefter has millions of followers.

1282
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 3: Is because you know, the timing is everything, right, Like

1283
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 3: can you get something in before the word becomes widespread

1284
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:37,120
Speaker 3: in the line shifts? Right, If you find out that

1285
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:39,439
Speaker 3: the key player is injured and you can get your

1286
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:43,200
Speaker 3: bet in before the line changes, well that's very valuable.

1287
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:45,400
Speaker 2: Right. So time is money more than ever.

1288
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 3: So the shift to you know, accuracy and speed, but

1289
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:53,679
Speaker 3: with speed comes risk, right, that's probably the problem too,

1290
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:55,479
Speaker 3: because you know the morality piece.

1291
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:57,400
Speaker 2: What about the morality piece?

1292
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:03,360
Speaker 3: It was always kind of like newspapers wanted to have

1293
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 3: it both ways. They would discourage gambling, but they would

1294
01:11:06,160 --> 01:11:08,800
Speaker 3: print the Lions and you know, the Lions were growing

1295
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:09,880
Speaker 3: up in the La Times.

1296
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:13,560
Speaker 2: And I don't know what I think the New York Times.

1297
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:15,280
Speaker 1: I think the New York Times was one of those

1298
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:16,920
Speaker 1: entities had never put the lines in.

1299
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 3: The paper, but most did so there was always this

1300
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:24,360
Speaker 3: acknowledgement that gambling existed. It's funny because the leagues didn't

1301
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 3: want the newspapers printing the lines. The leagues didn't want

1302
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 3: any type of discussion. You know, going back, we talked

1303
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:32,559
Speaker 3: about this my class. The reason Jimmy the Greek would

1304
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:35,639
Speaker 3: pick the scores was That was his way of saying

1305
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:37,519
Speaker 3: whether or not the team was going to cover, Like

1306
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:38,719
Speaker 3: it wasn't about you know.

1307
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:40,439
Speaker 2: He thought this final score was going to be this.

1308
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:41,760
Speaker 2: But he did think that was.

1309
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:44,720
Speaker 1: The negotiation they made with the NFL to say, all right,

1310
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:48,320
Speaker 1: we'll have our gambling expert just predict final scores and

1311
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 1: those who know will know if you know, you know.

1312
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:53,320
Speaker 3: Exactly as the kids same day, right, so now you

1313
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 3: can be overt about it, right, And now everyone's got

1314
01:11:57,479 --> 01:11:59,600
Speaker 3: their picks. And then in between the commercials come and

1315
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:01,679
Speaker 3: here you see the same talent that you just saw,

1316
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:05,200
Speaker 3: you know at the desk, uh, you know, touting these

1317
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:09,200
Speaker 3: betting apps and websites. Right, so you know, the walls

1318
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 3: have come down completely. I don't I don't question the

1319
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:16,800
Speaker 3: morality of it that that that doesn't bother me that much.

1320
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:20,439
Speaker 3: You know, are you serving the audience? Right that that's

1321
01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:23,719
Speaker 3: that's the most important thing. That's immediate, serving the audience.

1322
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 3: This is the issue.

1323
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 1: I say that the missing mindset of journalism schools in

1324
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:33,680
Speaker 1: general is service journalism, meaning there's there's accountability journalism, but

1325
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:38,960
Speaker 1: there's basic service journalism. And what you think is just informational.

1326
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 1: Another person is it's it's an actual item telling somebody

1327
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 1: where there's cheaper chicken. Chicken is service journalism, even though

1328
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:49,680
Speaker 1: that's not going to win you a pulzer. And and

1329
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:52,360
Speaker 1: you're right, and in some ways, you know, there's gamblers

1330
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 1: out there and they're looking for content. You serve this.

1331
01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:56,599
Speaker 2: So do you think this.

1332
01:12:56,479 --> 01:12:59,280
Speaker 1: Needs to be a do you think can you imagine

1333
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:03,599
Speaker 1: your sports journalism programming teaching a sort of sports betting

1334
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:04,599
Speaker 1: one on one class?

1335
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:08,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I would probably do more of it if

1336
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 3: I was more familiar with that, if I had more

1337
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:15,280
Speaker 3: of a gambling background. But we certainly, I have guest

1338
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 3: lecturers in the talk about gambling. We have opportunities, for example,

1339
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:24,439
Speaker 3: for our students to intern at gambling based websites, right

1340
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:25,559
Speaker 3: or news outlets.

1341
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:28,200
Speaker 1: That's not going to be an entity that you would

1342
01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:30,879
Speaker 1: not allow to have interns from the journalism program.

1343
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1344
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 3: No, I mean, the only reason there isn't more of

1345
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:36,920
Speaker 3: it is just because that's not my interest in my background, right.

1346
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:39,160
Speaker 2: But it's not a moral opposition to it.

1347
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,519
Speaker 3: And I do encourage our students to learn more about

1348
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:44,760
Speaker 3: it and pursue it if that's where they're interested, you know,

1349
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 3: and you know, We've had a few students who have

1350
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:48,880
Speaker 3: graduated and gone into a gamble.

1351
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 2: You know.

1352
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:51,280
Speaker 3: I always kind of I'll hear from someone with the

1353
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:54,400
Speaker 3: gambling site or or a show and say, hey, do

1354
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 3: you have anyone, And so I'll kind of send out

1355
01:13:56,040 --> 01:13:58,479
Speaker 3: the word, Hey, who among you likes to gamble? Is

1356
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:01,879
Speaker 3: interested in gambling? You know, but it's not You shouldn't

1357
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:03,439
Speaker 3: do it if you don't really know it. You know,

1358
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:05,680
Speaker 3: more than you can kind of fake a lot of

1359
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:08,360
Speaker 3: things in the journalist business. You cannot fake it if

1360
01:14:08,360 --> 01:14:09,720
Speaker 3: you're talking about gambling.

1361
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 2: Anilers, we'll know if you're faking it. Yeah, no, they'll know.

1362
01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:16,680
Speaker 1: Are you seeing just a more gender diversity in the

1363
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:17,360
Speaker 1: sports program?

1364
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:22,920
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yes, the gender diversity has been great.

1365
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:23,719
Speaker 2: It's funny.

1366
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 3: My one of my first classes that I taught here,

1367
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:29,440
Speaker 3: sports commentary class.

1368
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:31,799
Speaker 2: I looked up a couple of weeks before its school started.

1369
01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:35,320
Speaker 3: There's no women in the class, you know, and I

1370
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:37,320
Speaker 3: had to like put out an APB and try to

1371
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:39,600
Speaker 3: round up, and we were able to get one refreshman.

1372
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:42,600
Speaker 2: I felt sorry for she was a lone female in

1373
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:43,160
Speaker 2: the class.

1374
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:48,080
Speaker 3: But then you know, out of like class of like eighteen,

1375
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:52,360
Speaker 3: it'd be two or three, four or five, and now

1376
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:55,200
Speaker 3: we're up to like almost fifty percent. You know, I

1377
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:58,720
Speaker 3: would say in the sports commentary classes, you know, and

1378
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:03,320
Speaker 3: it's really important to have women giving opinion, right, you know,

1379
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:05,200
Speaker 3: because that's kind of the prime space you talked about

1380
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:07,800
Speaker 3: the Pat McAfee, the Stephen as you know, we don't

1381
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:10,479
Speaker 3: have a female like a real equality will be we

1382
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:13,639
Speaker 3: have a female version of that, right, and people showing

1383
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:16,720
Speaker 3: up and a woman making a lot of money to

1384
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:19,400
Speaker 3: give her opinions and hosting her own show, not being

1385
01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:22,240
Speaker 3: the moderator for two men on the panel, but you know,

1386
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:23,680
Speaker 3: being the prime opinion.

1387
01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:26,280
Speaker 1: Giver or noting the sideline and we're still with the

1388
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:28,200
Speaker 1: sideline reporter's almost always.

1389
01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 2: Female, right.

1390
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:31,920
Speaker 3: And in the booth, it's funny we had a section

1391
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:35,280
Speaker 3: I was very proud. A couple of years ago there

1392
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:37,840
Speaker 3: were five women in the booth in the NBA, either

1393
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:41,479
Speaker 3: play by play or analyst, and two of them were

1394
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:45,360
Speaker 3: Medill graduates, Lisa Byington with the Bucks and Katie Wenjy

1395
01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:48,760
Speaker 3: with the Denver Nuggets. So it took a while, but

1396
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:51,080
Speaker 3: I was able to get them both here on campus

1397
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:55,920
Speaker 3: to celebrate the fact that of the women broadcasting the

1398
01:15:56,000 --> 01:16:02,519
Speaker 3: NBA when local teams were medill graduates. Sounds better than two.

1399
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:08,719
Speaker 3: But you know, so it's growing. There's opportunities. I say,

1400
01:16:08,920 --> 01:16:11,400
Speaker 3: you know, there's never been a better time to be

1401
01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 3: a woman in the sports media field. And it's not

1402
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:18,760
Speaker 3: completely balanced yet. But you know what what's cool to

1403
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:20,880
Speaker 3: me is like I'll turn on a game and maybe

1404
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:24,479
Speaker 3: I hear like Candice Parker doing the commentary when she

1405
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:28,920
Speaker 3: was with Turner, and it doesn't seem unusual.

1406
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:32,960
Speaker 2: I think it's starting to normalize hearing female voice doors

1407
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:36,439
Speaker 2: burk Is. I think she'll blaze a lot of trails here.

1408
01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:39,439
Speaker 1: And you know, I know, you know, the problem is

1409
01:16:39,479 --> 01:16:41,720
Speaker 1: when you blaze a trail, then when you're not in

1410
01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:44,479
Speaker 1: that position, it becomes a bigger deal. I sort of

1411
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 1: I hate how much attention her so called demotion got,

1412
01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 1: but in some ways that's how you know you've made

1413
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:57,800
Speaker 1: it right, when the emotion gets as much attention as

1414
01:16:58,040 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 1: in some of them words.

1415
01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:01,920
Speaker 3: Also, you know, yeah, she got there in the first

1416
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:04,599
Speaker 3: but the news is that, you know, she's no longer

1417
01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:05,200
Speaker 3: on the A team.

1418
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:08,000
Speaker 2: But you know, the real core of the story.

1419
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:09,679
Speaker 3: The nut graph is that she was on the eighth

1420
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:13,439
Speaker 3: right right and she called NBA Finals for ESPN and ABC.

1421
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 1: So let me just get you out of here on

1422
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:19,519
Speaker 1: how much do you think now? You know that the

1423
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:23,519
Speaker 1: the politics of everything is what I call it, right,

1424
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:27,320
Speaker 1: we have a way sometimes of politicizing everything. The sports

1425
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:31,680
Speaker 1: world has this debate all the time, which is I

1426
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:33,680
Speaker 1: want to stick, you know, get out of, get out

1427
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 1: of social commentary in my sports. Sports is my distraction.

1428
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:43,559
Speaker 1: And at the same time, these are cultural icons, so

1429
01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:46,320
Speaker 1: they have just as much to say about the culture

1430
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 1: that they're helping to create, expand revitalize whatever you want

1431
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:57,880
Speaker 1: to describe as anybody else in any other field. And

1432
01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:00,360
Speaker 1: yet it feels like the big sports broadcasters don't want

1433
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:03,160
Speaker 1: any of that anymore. So where are we on in

1434
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:06,559
Speaker 1: that space? Because I look at sports, and you know,

1435
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:11,080
Speaker 1: sports has done more. Sports has done a lot for

1436
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:14,160
Speaker 1: civil rights in this country, not just for African American

1437
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:17,360
Speaker 1: civil rights, but we just talked about for women opportunities,

1438
01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:19,519
Speaker 1: Like in some ways it has been a place to

1439
01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:23,120
Speaker 1: break barriers without as much controversy as you had it

1440
01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 1: in other spaces. And yet there's this constant debate, Hey,

1441
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:31,120
Speaker 1: don't let's not talk about this stuff in our sports commentary.

1442
01:18:31,320 --> 01:18:32,400
Speaker 2: Where are we today on this.

1443
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:34,479
Speaker 1: I felt like ten years ago everybody was like, no,

1444
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:37,240
Speaker 1: it's all infused, it's all part of the stew and

1445
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:39,920
Speaker 1: now it feels like there's nobody wants to touch it again.

1446
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:41,559
Speaker 2: Yeah. Two things.

1447
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:43,800
Speaker 3: One, it feels like there's been a retreat, like there's

1448
01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 3: nothing treats so physically blocking anyone from speaking out. But

1449
01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:49,439
Speaker 3: some of the prominent voices that we've had in the

1450
01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:54,720
Speaker 3: recent years have had less to say. There has been

1451
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 3: some because you know, there's been some gender equity. You know,

1452
01:18:58,160 --> 01:19:00,960
Speaker 3: we'll see the new collect Bard and Green for the

1453
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:03,920
Speaker 3: w NBA will kind of let us know where we stand.

1454
01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:07,400
Speaker 3: But you know, equal pay for the female soccer players

1455
01:19:07,439 --> 01:19:12,320
Speaker 3: right from USA Soccer. So we've seen some breakthroughs. So

1456
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 3: even though we're not there, maybe you know, the arguments

1457
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 3: don't have to be as lowed. The flip side is

1458
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:21,439
Speaker 3: that we've seen sports, you know, after leading the way

1459
01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:23,360
Speaker 3: in civil rights and so long, we've seen sports as

1460
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:27,240
Speaker 3: the entry point for discrimination, particularly with the trans issue

1461
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:31,719
Speaker 3: right and and so you know, using the premise of sports,

1462
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:35,559
Speaker 3: you know, to to ban trans people from activities to

1463
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:40,559
Speaker 3: discriminate on the basis of sexual identity. Whereas sports one

1464
01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:44,400
Speaker 3: time led the way to equality. Now we're seeing people

1465
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:48,439
Speaker 3: specifically being banned based on their identity. Right, so sports

1466
01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:51,960
Speaker 3: became a web, you know, because any grands people from

1467
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:52,560
Speaker 3: the workplace.

1468
01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:55,160
Speaker 2: No, but it's a lot easier.

1469
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:59,280
Speaker 3: And the interesting thing is even people like Martine Navratilova,

1470
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:05,440
Speaker 3: who was obviously a big advocate for you know, gay equality, inequality,

1471
01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:08,160
Speaker 3: she was on the side of you know, transit.

1472
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:11,120
Speaker 1: Well, this is really divided the women's sports world, right, Like,

1473
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:14,519
Speaker 1: and you do look, I noticed I follow Martina.

1474
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:16,719
Speaker 2: I find her common.

1475
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:20,200
Speaker 1: You know, she's she's fascinating, you know, I think she's

1476
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:23,439
Speaker 1: got I'm always curious what she's thinking. And you know,

1477
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:26,560
Speaker 1: she's she's pretty. You know, she takes a lot of

1478
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:29,679
Speaker 1: arrows for this one. Right, she's a pretty progressive lefty

1479
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:31,520
Speaker 1: on like ninety percent.

1480
01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:34,559
Speaker 2: Of issues, not on this one, not on this one. Yeah.

1481
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:37,400
Speaker 2: So here we've seen sports divide.

1482
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:40,880
Speaker 3: The fact that we still haven't had uh you know,

1483
01:20:41,040 --> 01:20:43,640
Speaker 3: really we had Michael Sam entered the NFL's draft, but

1484
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:46,799
Speaker 3: you know, we haven't really seen openly gay NFL players.

1485
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:48,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, when we have a start, when a Super Bowl

1486
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:52,360
Speaker 1: MVP is openly gay, right, that's when you know that

1487
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:55,680
Speaker 1: that barrier is gone, right, Yeah.

1488
01:20:55,479 --> 01:20:58,240
Speaker 3: So sports is lagging in the l g pt Q

1489
01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:04,439
Speaker 3: issues and is even an entry point for discrimination on

1490
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:08,400
Speaker 3: those issues. So that's kind of where we are, you know,

1491
01:21:08,479 --> 01:21:12,040
Speaker 3: we Jackie Robinson and all this legacy of integration and

1492
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:16,400
Speaker 3: equality through sports and sports leading the way. Now it's

1493
01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:19,080
Speaker 3: it's gone in a different direction and sports is certainly

1494
01:21:19,120 --> 01:21:21,960
Speaker 3: lagged behind it. You could argue that the biggest issue

1495
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:25,280
Speaker 3: right now. Well, I mean, well, the other thing is,

1496
01:21:26,200 --> 01:21:28,280
Speaker 3: you know Latino issues. You know, it's black and white

1497
01:21:28,280 --> 01:21:33,519
Speaker 3: for so long. Right now, you know, Latino is a

1498
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:38,639
Speaker 3: primary thing, and we would think baseball, you know, should

1499
01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:43,080
Speaker 3: be leading the way with such a heavily Latino presence,

1500
01:21:43,160 --> 01:21:46,720
Speaker 3: and you know, so many superstars like you know, Black Guarrel,

1501
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:50,200
Speaker 3: And you could argue that kind of diminishment of the

1502
01:21:50,240 --> 01:21:53,400
Speaker 3: media too, right, And I know Black Guarrel Junior plays

1503
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:57,040
Speaker 3: in Canada, but you know every other every road game

1504
01:21:57,080 --> 01:21:59,240
Speaker 3: he plays is in the United States, And you know,

1505
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:02,439
Speaker 3: you might want, okay, what does he have to say

1506
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:02,800
Speaker 3: about this?

1507
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:03,200
Speaker 2: Right?

1508
01:22:03,320 --> 01:22:05,439
Speaker 3: And it feels like he doesn't get asked, and this

1509
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 3: might not be the time to ask him, as he's

1510
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:10,240
Speaker 3: you know, on the verge of the World Series in

1511
01:22:10,280 --> 01:22:15,200
Speaker 3: the Baseball playoffs as we record this. But still, why

1512
01:22:15,240 --> 01:22:18,639
Speaker 3: are none of the prominent Latino baseball players speaking out?

1513
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:22,240
Speaker 1: I remember it wasn't it Carlo still Gato who sort

1514
01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:25,840
Speaker 1: of I think he spoke out at a time it

1515
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:29,040
Speaker 1: was sort of end of his career and it may

1516
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:30,880
Speaker 1: have cost him a free agency signing.

1517
01:22:31,400 --> 01:22:34,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and maybe the reason that there's kind

1518
01:22:34,720 --> 01:22:37,479
Speaker 3: of this history, like there's this school of thought that

1519
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:41,200
Speaker 3: the reason that you're seeing so many Latino stars in

1520
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:44,559
Speaker 3: baseball and Pewer and Puer African American stars in baseball

1521
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:48,920
Speaker 3: is because the control factor, Right, you can recruit them

1522
01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:51,800
Speaker 3: in the Caribbean and bring them over and sign them

1523
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:54,760
Speaker 3: for less money, right, and there's this kind of more control, no.

1524
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:55,639
Speaker 2: Child labor law.

1525
01:22:55,760 --> 01:22:57,960
Speaker 1: I mean, apparently he could sign fourteen and fifteen and

1526
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:00,800
Speaker 1: have some sort of unofficial financial control over them and

1527
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:02,599
Speaker 1: the Dominican or when.

1528
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:04,400
Speaker 3: There are ways you know that you can maybe bypass

1529
01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:09,040
Speaker 3: the draft right and and get those So yeah, there's

1530
01:23:09,120 --> 01:23:11,720
Speaker 3: there's a lot there and it hasn't been explored enough.

1531
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:16,200
Speaker 3: The Washington Post had a great Latino Baseball project, but

1532
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:18,080
Speaker 3: outside of that, we're not talking about this enough.

1533
01:23:18,120 --> 01:23:19,639
Speaker 2: And this is the issue of the day.

1534
01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:24,680
Speaker 3: I think that the hour is you know, Latin American,

1535
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:27,120
Speaker 3: you know, and how are we going to integrate and

1536
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:30,479
Speaker 3: do or assimilate or are we just trying to get

1537
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:31,439
Speaker 3: rid of them?

1538
01:23:31,479 --> 01:23:34,040
Speaker 2: All right? And and so you know, it's a great

1539
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:34,880
Speaker 2: way of framing it.

1540
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:37,080
Speaker 1: I sort of I sort of look like, look at

1541
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:39,599
Speaker 1: it as this is the last gasp of a sort

1542
01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:43,920
Speaker 1: of aging patriarchy. Probably it's probably the way to put it,

1543
01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:46,080
Speaker 1: or some sort of aging establishment.

1544
01:23:46,920 --> 01:23:48,920
Speaker 2: And I'd like to think of that way. And a

1545
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:49,920
Speaker 2: lot of times I thought of that.

1546
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:51,880
Speaker 1: Well, I grew up in Miami, and I went through

1547
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:54,560
Speaker 1: this in the seventies and eighties, where Miami was a

1548
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:57,360
Speaker 1: southern city. I always say I was born in Miami,

1549
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:01,479
Speaker 1: and I graduated high school in Miami, you know, and

1550
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:09,200
Speaker 1: Miami's a thriving international destination. And it banned English, it

1551
01:24:09,520 --> 01:24:14,200
Speaker 1: banned Spanish language from government material in nineteen eighty Ja, Okay,

1552
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:16,640
Speaker 1: that isn't like eighteen eighties, you know.

1553
01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:19,639
Speaker 2: It was it was Miami.

1554
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:23,600
Speaker 1: This was Dade County had a referendum, so and it

1555
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:26,000
Speaker 1: was sort of right after the Mary Elite boat lift,

1556
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:28,360
Speaker 1: and there was just a lot of it was the

1557
01:24:28,439 --> 01:24:31,800
Speaker 1: conversation America's having today. This is why Miami is always

1558
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 1: city of the future because in some ways, oh been there,

1559
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:38,360
Speaker 1: We already had the debay, right, and we're going to

1560
01:24:38,439 --> 01:24:40,360
Speaker 1: be better on the other side. But I'm not going

1561
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:42,000
Speaker 1: to lie. We had also had to have three race

1562
01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:46,600
Speaker 1: riots that were tri raccial riots, tri ethnic riots. It

1563
01:24:46,680 --> 01:24:50,400
Speaker 1: wasn't wasn't clean black versus white. It was Cubans and

1564
01:24:50,439 --> 01:24:55,559
Speaker 1: blacks and whites, and it was very uncomfortable in the eighties.

1565
01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:58,479
Speaker 1: But what came out of it was this thriving sort

1566
01:24:58,520 --> 01:25:01,760
Speaker 1: of post you know, you know, as I say, like

1567
01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:07,520
Speaker 1: Miami became Singapore, right, it's sort of this incredible international destination.

1568
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:11,360
Speaker 1: But I like how you frame that, because you're right,

1569
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:13,160
Speaker 1: I do think the rest of the country is going

1570
01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:16,840
Speaker 1: through this identity crisis. Right, What does America look like

1571
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:18,960
Speaker 1: for the next hundred years versus what it looked like

1572
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:22,880
Speaker 1: the last hundred years? Yeah, and you're right, we don't

1573
01:25:22,960 --> 01:25:24,680
Speaker 1: touch that story in sports.

1574
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:25,439
Speaker 2: You know.

1575
01:25:25,479 --> 01:25:28,479
Speaker 3: And I thought the transition was that for some people

1576
01:25:28,520 --> 01:25:32,960
Speaker 3: there's almost a pathological need to discriminate, and it became

1577
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:36,080
Speaker 3: out of favor to discriminate against blacks, and it became

1578
01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:39,120
Speaker 3: you know, legislated against that you couldn't, you know, and

1579
01:25:39,160 --> 01:25:42,280
Speaker 3: that team like for a while, you know, and then

1580
01:25:42,320 --> 01:25:45,559
Speaker 3: as as gay's even one, you know, for example, legalized

1581
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:48,080
Speaker 3: marriage and one other rights in that way, kind of

1582
01:25:48,120 --> 01:25:51,200
Speaker 3: the last segment that you could gang up on without

1583
01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:53,599
Speaker 3: that much pushback or protection was trans people.

1584
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:54,080
Speaker 2: Right.

1585
01:25:54,160 --> 01:25:56,360
Speaker 3: So I thought the reason that this became an issue

1586
01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:58,719
Speaker 3: was because this was kind of the last quote unquote

1587
01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:01,880
Speaker 3: acceptable discriminate a nation that we could have right where

1588
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:04,680
Speaker 3: there would not be as much pushback. And you know,

1589
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:06,400
Speaker 3: my fear is and I think we're seeing coming to

1590
01:26:06,479 --> 01:26:08,880
Speaker 3: light though, is you start there and then it starts

1591
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:11,800
Speaker 3: to spread, right, So if you don't protect their rights, okay, then.

1592
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:12,960
Speaker 2: We'll move on to another group.

1593
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:16,760
Speaker 1: Famous poem about the Nazis. First they came for the graphics.

1594
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:18,599
Speaker 1: First they came, you know, and then.

1595
01:26:18,479 --> 01:26:19,040
Speaker 2: They came out.

1596
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:24,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, we started focusing on trans and no,

1597
01:26:24,760 --> 01:26:25,800
Speaker 3: you can't participate.

1598
01:26:26,200 --> 01:26:27,600
Speaker 2: You know, we're going to ban you, We're going to

1599
01:26:27,640 --> 01:26:28,559
Speaker 2: discriminate against you.

1600
01:26:29,080 --> 01:26:32,559
Speaker 3: And now there's like it's illegal to be Latino, and

1601
01:26:33,280 --> 01:26:35,680
Speaker 3: you know, like that's like that's the next step is

1602
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:40,200
Speaker 3: we're kind of declaring, you know, illegitimacy and an illegality

1603
01:26:40,720 --> 01:26:42,040
Speaker 3: to people.

1604
01:26:42,479 --> 01:26:45,280
Speaker 1: There's something that's arguably been that Muslim ban, right, right.

1605
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:50,360
Speaker 1: The fabric of our country has always been we assimilate outsiders, right,

1606
01:26:50,400 --> 01:26:53,120
Speaker 1: And it's so we've always been this weird contradiction, right,

1607
01:26:53,479 --> 01:26:57,599
Speaker 1: we're both we're of that's the origin story of our country,

1608
01:26:57,720 --> 01:27:00,360
Speaker 1: and the minute we get here, everybody wants to everybody

1609
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:03,240
Speaker 1: else out. It's the strangest I made it. But yeah,

1610
01:27:03,680 --> 01:27:09,640
Speaker 1: not you you know, but that's a yeah.

1611
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:11,919
Speaker 3: I feared that sports will not be at the forefront

1612
01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:15,840
Speaker 3: because we've seen the last couple hot issues.

1613
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:18,880
Speaker 1: Even though sports used to be arguably the place where

1614
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:21,840
Speaker 1: was at the front. I mean, look, I had a

1615
01:27:21,880 --> 01:27:25,040
Speaker 1: great interaction one time with Willie Mace. Willy was a

1616
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:28,160
Speaker 1: Obama brought him on Air Force one to go to

1617
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:30,840
Speaker 1: the All Star Game his first year in office. So

1618
01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:34,240
Speaker 1: they bring Willy back to the press plane and I said,

1619
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:36,719
Speaker 1: so I happened to be back there. I didn't happen

1620
01:27:36,760 --> 01:27:38,000
Speaker 1: to be back there. I found out we were going

1621
01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:40,880
Speaker 1: to the All Star Game and it was NBC's turn.

1622
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:44,720
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm taking this seat, right, you know.

1623
01:27:44,800 --> 01:27:48,479
Speaker 1: I pulled rank on that one. But I remember asking him,

1624
01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:50,479
Speaker 1: what's it like you know, here you are Air Force one.

1625
01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:53,719
Speaker 1: Did you ever you know with the first African American president?

1626
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:56,200
Speaker 1: And he said, it meant everything I went through was

1627
01:27:56,200 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 1: worth it, That's all he said. He didn't elaborate on it,

1628
01:27:59,560 --> 01:28:02,280
Speaker 1: but I would said, you know, being black in the

1629
01:28:02,360 --> 01:28:06,719
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties in baseball, you think that was easy? Yeah,

1630
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:12,000
Speaker 1: probably the hardest thing. You know, we we we've created

1631
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:14,040
Speaker 1: a you know, there's a movie about Jackie's experience.

1632
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:19,000
Speaker 2: But Willie and Hank, Aaron and and I mean Larry Dobe, right,

1633
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:20,120
Speaker 2: you know, Larry.

1634
01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:24,120
Speaker 1: Adobe Don Newcomb, you know, probably was driven to alcoholism

1635
01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:26,439
Speaker 1: by it. You know, we don't know that, but I

1636
01:28:26,560 --> 01:28:29,559
Speaker 1: think that, you know, but for that he might be

1637
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:33,040
Speaker 1: the greatest picture of his generation. You know, it was hard,

1638
01:28:33,439 --> 01:28:38,559
Speaker 1: beyond hard, and and you know that's where baseball, you know,

1639
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:41,280
Speaker 1: we had a break up Arry baseball before we guaranteed

1640
01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:42,880
Speaker 1: voting rights.

1641
01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:46,200
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, Jackie Robins says, before Martin Luther King. You know,

1642
01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:49,640
Speaker 3: Martin Luther King at least had Jackie's footsteps to walk in.

1643
01:28:50,200 --> 01:28:52,080
Speaker 2: You know, who did Jackie get to?

1644
01:28:52,240 --> 01:28:54,240
Speaker 1: And you don't think the sports world in the next

1645
01:28:54,280 --> 01:28:58,000
Speaker 1: twenty five years is going to be leading leading the

1646
01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:02,080
Speaker 1: space of equals going forward for very And.

1647
01:29:02,120 --> 01:29:05,839
Speaker 3: One reason is you talked about the politics of everything,

1648
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:10,160
Speaker 3: and I think sports has become a sanctuary. Not that

1649
01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:12,559
Speaker 3: it should be or needs to be sure, but I

1650
01:29:12,680 --> 01:29:17,080
Speaker 3: find myself seeking solace in sports and an escape in

1651
01:29:17,120 --> 01:29:19,559
Speaker 3: a bubble. And I was someone, you know, my writings,

1652
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:21,800
Speaker 3: I always tried to incorporate and put sports in the

1653
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:25,519
Speaker 3: context of society and deal with society issues through the

1654
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:28,360
Speaker 3: prism of sports. And now I am someone as a

1655
01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:31,800
Speaker 3: consumer who wants my sports to be in a.

1656
01:29:31,760 --> 01:29:35,360
Speaker 1: Bubble just because it's everywhere else, right, I am that

1657
01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:38,599
Speaker 1: I am a walking contradiction myself. My favorite sports books

1658
01:29:38,600 --> 01:29:41,400
Speaker 1: are the ones that are grounded in American culture and

1659
01:29:41,439 --> 01:29:44,360
Speaker 1: about like you know, I love there's this history of

1660
01:29:44,400 --> 01:29:48,559
Speaker 1: the Negro leagues and about you know, Jewish financiers who

1661
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:52,000
Speaker 1: worked with because nobody else would take their money and

1662
01:29:52,080 --> 01:29:54,600
Speaker 1: so they you know, there are all these incredible stories

1663
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:58,360
Speaker 1: that are larger than about sports, and you're right, we're

1664
01:29:58,400 --> 01:30:01,679
Speaker 1: not nobody want much those stories told right now through

1665
01:30:01,720 --> 01:30:02,639
Speaker 1: the prism of sports.

1666
01:30:03,120 --> 01:30:03,599
Speaker 2: Go do it.

1667
01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:05,840
Speaker 1: Go do it as a documentary for politics, but get

1668
01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:06,759
Speaker 1: it out of ESPN.

1669
01:30:06,920 --> 01:30:12,600
Speaker 2: Right JA, This was great man. Appreciate it, appreciate it.

1670
01:30:12,600 --> 01:30:25,200
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on. I hope you enjoyed that

1671
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:29,559
Speaker 2: conversation with Ja. You know, he's right there.

1672
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:33,360
Speaker 1: It has been interesting the particularly on the Latino front,

1673
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:39,160
Speaker 1: we've not seen We've not seen many Latino sports figures

1674
01:30:40,240 --> 01:30:44,000
Speaker 1: sort of weigh in too much. Perhaps Bad Bunny and

1675
01:30:44,080 --> 01:30:48,640
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl Halftime Show will spark an interesting conversation

1676
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:50,920
Speaker 1: on that front going forward.

1677
01:30:50,920 --> 01:30:51,760
Speaker 2: But it is, it is.

1678
01:30:52,720 --> 01:30:55,200
Speaker 1: I think he's onto something there right where. You know,

1679
01:30:55,240 --> 01:30:58,479
Speaker 1: in the fifties and sixties and seventies, sports almost led

1680
01:30:58,520 --> 01:31:02,519
Speaker 1: the way and sort of cultural change in helping us

1681
01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:04,920
Speaker 1: have this more perfect union. And I think right now

1682
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:07,320
Speaker 1: there's a bit of a retreat right as there's more

1683
01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:09,759
Speaker 1: of a money grab when it comes to all things sports.

1684
01:31:10,600 --> 01:31:12,200
Speaker 2: But let me sneak in a few questions here. It's

1685
01:31:12,240 --> 01:31:17,680
Speaker 2: time for a little last Chuck Ask Chuck. All right.

1686
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:20,400
Speaker 1: Next first question comes from Zach from Ohio. Yes, I'm

1687
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:24,000
Speaker 1: a Buckeye fan, soon to be back to back national champs.

1688
01:31:24,240 --> 01:31:26,439
Speaker 1: I like the cockiness. Let me just tell you, I

1689
01:31:26,479 --> 01:31:28,360
Speaker 1: remember a certain University of Miami team that thought they

1690
01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:31,040
Speaker 1: were going back to back and it was some upstart

1691
01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:35,639
Speaker 1: team from Columbus, Ohio that prevented that. So I will

1692
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:39,360
Speaker 1: tell you, am, I would love love to get my

1693
01:31:39,439 --> 01:31:43,280
Speaker 1: ultimate revenge on the stolen national title from two thousand

1694
01:31:43,320 --> 01:31:46,439
Speaker 1: and two that Ohio State improperly has thanks to a

1695
01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:50,320
Speaker 1: referee named Terry Porter. Yes, I will never forget his name, Zach.

1696
01:31:50,760 --> 01:31:53,960
Speaker 1: He was the official who decided there was past interference

1697
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:58,479
Speaker 1: on the infamous fake national title that Jim Tressel is

1698
01:31:58,520 --> 01:32:01,080
Speaker 1: able to take credit for. But it would be some

1699
01:32:01,320 --> 01:32:03,719
Speaker 1: rich irony if we were able to stop you guys

1700
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:05,479
Speaker 1: from your back to back on that front.

1701
01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:08,759
Speaker 2: But I've digressed. Let me get to your actual question.

1702
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:10,800
Speaker 1: I know you've spoken quite a bit about AI and

1703
01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:13,920
Speaker 1: its effects impossible impact on society you like to reference.

1704
01:32:13,920 --> 01:32:16,200
Speaker 1: It's going to bring back more in person relationships and

1705
01:32:16,200 --> 01:32:19,160
Speaker 1: seeing things with your own eyes, et cetera. That's my hope.

1706
01:32:19,400 --> 01:32:22,320
Speaker 1: What I think you're missing is that why aren't we

1707
01:32:22,360 --> 01:32:25,519
Speaker 1: talking about watermarking every piece of AI produced so people

1708
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:27,880
Speaker 1: know what they're seeing is altered. Let me know your thoughts,

1709
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:33,600
Speaker 1: go buck eyes. The problem with these attempts with watermarks

1710
01:32:33,680 --> 01:32:36,080
Speaker 1: or doing little things like that is that apparently as

1711
01:32:36,120 --> 01:32:38,160
Speaker 1: fast as you can sort of force it is as

1712
01:32:38,200 --> 01:32:42,800
Speaker 1: fast as it seems to go away. Now we're the

1713
01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:45,080
Speaker 1: only way you're going to be able to enforce sort

1714
01:32:45,120 --> 01:32:48,439
Speaker 1: of some sort of water mark like that with AI,

1715
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:52,639
Speaker 1: so that we could have is if it's a regulation, right,

1716
01:32:52,640 --> 01:32:54,600
Speaker 1: if it's an actual law. And I think this is

1717
01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:58,160
Speaker 1: the flaw that the federal government has gone about when

1718
01:32:58,200 --> 01:33:01,280
Speaker 1: it's come with AI. This mindset of hey, let's let

1719
01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:03,680
Speaker 1: the industry one wild and then we'll figure out the

1720
01:33:03,760 --> 01:33:08,080
Speaker 1: regulation after the fact is. You know, it didn't work

1721
01:33:08,120 --> 01:33:09,920
Speaker 1: with social media, why do we think it's going to

1722
01:33:09,960 --> 01:33:10,559
Speaker 1: work with AI.

1723
01:33:11,439 --> 01:33:13,760
Speaker 2: I think you're right. I think we could have it.

1724
01:33:13,880 --> 01:33:17,360
Speaker 1: I think a watermark would work. But you've got to

1725
01:33:17,520 --> 01:33:21,519
Speaker 1: force it. You've almost got to force it as a

1726
01:33:21,560 --> 01:33:25,360
Speaker 1: regulation that it is a have to that literally you

1727
01:33:25,400 --> 01:33:29,080
Speaker 1: will lose your you know, your ability to to get

1728
01:33:29,080 --> 01:33:31,519
Speaker 1: on the Internet if you don't have it. There has

1729
01:33:31,560 --> 01:33:34,680
Speaker 1: to be some sort of teeth to this regulation.

1730
01:33:34,920 --> 01:33:35,160
Speaker 2: You know this.

1731
01:33:36,120 --> 01:33:39,960
Speaker 1: All these AI developers are trying to claim that they

1732
01:33:40,040 --> 01:33:42,479
Speaker 1: you know, they want to try to protect content creators

1733
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:44,360
Speaker 1: and they want to try to protect the public. But

1734
01:33:44,439 --> 01:33:46,800
Speaker 1: we're going to just march forward and then worry and

1735
01:33:46,880 --> 01:33:49,600
Speaker 1: then see you know what it is that that it

1736
01:33:49,640 --> 01:33:52,200
Speaker 1: could be problematic so that we can then regulate after

1737
01:33:52,240 --> 01:33:55,960
Speaker 1: the fact. And that's the problem with after the fact regulation, Right,

1738
01:33:56,080 --> 01:33:57,920
Speaker 1: genie is out of the bottle, and it makes it

1739
01:33:58,000 --> 01:34:01,280
Speaker 1: much harder to pick your put the toothpaste back in

1740
01:34:01,320 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 1: the tube, put the genie back in the bottle, et cetera.

1741
01:34:03,120 --> 01:34:03,479
Speaker 2: Et cetera.

1742
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:10,599
Speaker 1: So I think in theory a some and I do

1743
01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:13,280
Speaker 1: think this is coming some sort of where you're gonna

1744
01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:18,040
Speaker 1: have AI transparency, right, full transparency, and that maybe where

1745
01:34:18,120 --> 01:34:21,920
Speaker 1: this goes that you have to say where it's you

1746
01:34:21,960 --> 01:34:24,360
Speaker 1: know that it was not create you know that it

1747
01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:26,679
Speaker 1: was created with this image or created this way.

1748
01:34:28,280 --> 01:34:28,479
Speaker 2: You know.

1749
01:34:29,160 --> 01:34:32,920
Speaker 1: I uh, I just I just I'm skeptical by the

1750
01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:35,599
Speaker 1: time we get to the point where those laws are passed,

1751
01:34:35,640 --> 01:34:39,920
Speaker 1: whether whether it's almost too late right on that front,

1752
01:34:41,600 --> 01:34:44,760
Speaker 1: but I do think it's we've got to whatever we

1753
01:34:45,040 --> 01:34:49,719
Speaker 1: pass to protect on this front has to have some teeth,

1754
01:34:49,840 --> 01:34:54,960
Speaker 1: because right now, even the protections that exist, they're all

1755
01:34:54,960 --> 01:34:57,719
Speaker 1: finds and finds. As far as these big tech titans

1756
01:34:57,760 --> 01:35:00,479
Speaker 1: are concerned, are fine with them because they just sort

1757
01:35:00,520 --> 01:35:03,599
Speaker 1: of they use it at the price of doing business.

1758
01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:08,160
Speaker 1: Some form of liability needs to happen. Look, I kind

1759
01:35:08,160 --> 01:35:10,559
Speaker 1: of think let's sick some trial lawyers on these guys

1760
01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:12,800
Speaker 1: and let's see how quickly they start to change that.

1761
01:35:13,040 --> 01:35:18,720
Speaker 1: Once their bottom line is truly threatened, then they'll change

1762
01:35:18,760 --> 01:35:20,840
Speaker 1: their behavior. I'll give you an example of something that

1763
01:35:20,880 --> 01:35:25,479
Speaker 1: they do, right. They prevent child pornography from you know,

1764
01:35:25,640 --> 01:35:30,360
Speaker 1: getting out into the mainstream of the Internet. Yes, it's

1765
01:35:30,479 --> 01:35:32,840
Speaker 1: it's still been hard to get rid of in the

1766
01:35:32,920 --> 01:35:34,880
Speaker 1: dark web and some of the you know, it's not

1767
01:35:34,960 --> 01:35:40,080
Speaker 1: to say it's been permanent, but but the the fact that,

1768
01:35:40,120 --> 01:35:41,960
Speaker 1: you know, if you want to, you know, the fear

1769
01:35:42,040 --> 01:35:45,800
Speaker 1: of being associated with the distribution of child pornography has

1770
01:35:46,120 --> 01:35:48,880
Speaker 1: led the tech companies to put in real restrictions to

1771
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:51,439
Speaker 1: make sure that doesn't that doesn't you know, you don't

1772
01:35:51,439 --> 01:35:53,920
Speaker 1: see the solicitations and stuff like this. So the fact is,

1773
01:35:54,720 --> 01:35:57,599
Speaker 1: if they choose to, they can. And it's only if

1774
01:35:57,880 --> 01:35:59,840
Speaker 1: they feel as if that you know, in that sense,

1775
01:36:00,160 --> 01:36:03,360
Speaker 1: reputational damage, that that's no way to come out, get

1776
01:36:03,360 --> 01:36:08,280
Speaker 1: out from under. So whatever we design in a regulation,

1777
01:36:08,439 --> 01:36:11,760
Speaker 1: it needs to have the type of teeth that will

1778
01:36:11,760 --> 01:36:14,800
Speaker 1: allow it to stick. Next question comes from Elmer Cise,

1779
01:36:14,840 --> 01:36:17,360
Speaker 1: it's just writing, you just writing to you the night

1780
01:36:17,400 --> 01:36:19,599
Speaker 1: of the No Kings protest, so over from the last weekend.

1781
01:36:19,640 --> 01:36:21,559
Speaker 1: Why is it that we see large numbers of people

1782
01:36:21,560 --> 01:36:24,479
Speaker 1: coming out for this but we don't see this during

1783
01:36:24,520 --> 01:36:26,559
Speaker 1: election day? Also been a big fan of yours, going

1784
01:36:26,560 --> 01:36:28,360
Speaker 1: back to the other podcast days. I remember listening to

1785
01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:30,160
Speaker 1: your what if episodes at the end of the year

1786
01:36:30,200 --> 01:36:32,680
Speaker 1: looking forward to it. Thank you, Elmer, And yes, some

1787
01:36:32,760 --> 01:36:36,240
Speaker 1: what if episodes are coming up. I will tell you now,

1788
01:36:36,720 --> 01:36:39,680
Speaker 1: will I will reveal the topic of one what if

1789
01:36:39,720 --> 01:36:41,439
Speaker 1: episode right now, And by the way, I'd love for

1790
01:36:41,479 --> 01:36:44,559
Speaker 1: you and the big what if episode. It's almost I'm

1791
01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:46,439
Speaker 1: doing it because so many people have asked for it.

1792
01:36:46,479 --> 01:36:49,760
Speaker 1: Is what if Trumpet won in twenty twenty, where would

1793
01:36:49,760 --> 01:36:51,600
Speaker 1: we be? What would its second term have looked like

1794
01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:55,799
Speaker 1: under those circumstances. I think it's an extraordinarily fair butterfly

1795
01:36:55,840 --> 01:36:59,320
Speaker 1: effect question. But it also leads me to Hey, send

1796
01:36:59,320 --> 01:37:02,920
Speaker 1: me ask Chuck at the chucktodcast dot com, or leave

1797
01:37:02,960 --> 01:37:07,520
Speaker 1: a comment on the YouTube page, or leave a message

1798
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:12,040
Speaker 1: on Instagram or wherever you interact with my content. We've

1799
01:37:12,040 --> 01:37:15,760
Speaker 1: got it on LinkedIn, Instagram, bacebook, you name it. But

1800
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:19,680
Speaker 1: we are looking for suggestions of I do these alternative

1801
01:37:19,720 --> 01:37:22,800
Speaker 1: histories during the holiday season, and so you know what

1802
01:37:22,880 --> 01:37:25,479
Speaker 1: if you know, if one thing had changed, how would

1803
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:27,200
Speaker 1: that have gone on? You know, what if Bill Clinton

1804
01:37:27,240 --> 01:37:29,800
Speaker 1: had resigned the presidency in nineteen ninety eight during the

1805
01:37:29,800 --> 01:37:32,680
Speaker 1: height of the Monica Lewinsky scandal, Al Gore would have

1806
01:37:32,720 --> 01:37:35,080
Speaker 1: been president, you know, through the two thousand election, and

1807
01:37:35,120 --> 01:37:38,200
Speaker 1: if he had won, what would have How would that

1808
01:37:38,240 --> 01:37:40,799
Speaker 1: have changed the impact of nine to eleven for instance.

1809
01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:43,360
Speaker 1: So that is one that I've done, and you can

1810
01:37:43,400 --> 01:37:46,040
Speaker 1: go back into the archives of the old NBC version

1811
01:37:46,080 --> 01:37:49,760
Speaker 1: of the Chuck Podcast and check that out. I did

1812
01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:51,880
Speaker 1: one that what if John Lennon had lived and not

1813
01:37:53,080 --> 01:37:57,080
Speaker 1: died by an assassin back in nineteen eighty how would

1814
01:37:57,080 --> 01:38:00,160
Speaker 1: the reputation of the Beatles be today? Would they be

1815
01:38:00,240 --> 01:38:02,200
Speaker 1: more like the Rolling Stones or would they still be

1816
01:38:02,240 --> 01:38:05,320
Speaker 1: held in this level where they're you know, it's the

1817
01:38:05,320 --> 01:38:07,920
Speaker 1: Beatles and everybody else type of mindset. So, you know,

1818
01:38:07,960 --> 01:38:10,080
Speaker 1: I've tried to do politically. I'm a big believer in

1819
01:38:10,120 --> 01:38:14,120
Speaker 1: these butterfly effects, you know, sort of accidental moments in

1820
01:38:14,240 --> 01:38:22,160
Speaker 1: history and things like that. So anyway, I employ you

1821
01:38:22,200 --> 01:38:25,320
Speaker 1: if you've got thoughts on some alternative scenarios you'd like

1822
01:38:25,360 --> 01:38:28,160
Speaker 1: me to discuss, and I bring on an expert in

1823
01:38:28,200 --> 01:38:30,760
Speaker 1: that field and we go through it. I would love

1824
01:38:30,840 --> 01:38:34,080
Speaker 1: to get some more suggestions there. But to get to

1825
01:38:34,120 --> 01:38:38,680
Speaker 1: your point, I remember during the first, the big the

1826
01:38:38,720 --> 01:38:43,120
Speaker 1: first Women's march during Trump one point zero, and I

1827
01:38:43,120 --> 01:38:45,240
Speaker 1: think we had sent us some reporters out to talk

1828
01:38:45,240 --> 01:38:49,240
Speaker 1: to people about you know, where a bunch of folks

1829
01:38:49,280 --> 01:38:54,240
Speaker 1: participating in the protests admitted they didn't vote in the election. So,

1830
01:38:54,479 --> 01:38:56,479
Speaker 1: you know, the two thousand election is my favorite one

1831
01:38:56,479 --> 01:38:58,479
Speaker 1: to note how nobody seemed to care about it until

1832
01:38:58,479 --> 01:39:02,040
Speaker 1: after the fact. You know, suddenly here was a mediocre

1833
01:39:02,120 --> 01:39:06,240
Speaker 1: turnout election, super close, and everybody's like, oh my god,

1834
01:39:07,320 --> 01:39:12,120
Speaker 1: I guess I should have participated given the impact of

1835
01:39:12,280 --> 01:39:19,800
Speaker 1: set election. Look as Churchill said about America and Americans,

1836
01:39:19,880 --> 01:39:23,720
Speaker 1: he is, I'm going to probably screw this, but I'm

1837
01:39:23,720 --> 01:39:27,040
Speaker 1: going to paraphrase Churchill. You know, the Americans are always there.

1838
01:39:27,200 --> 01:39:31,360
Speaker 1: After they've exhausted every other path to get there, will

1839
01:39:31,439 --> 01:39:34,000
Speaker 1: eventually be there. The voters eventually figure it out, the

1840
01:39:34,080 --> 01:39:36,400
Speaker 1: voters eventually put it keep us on the right path.

1841
01:39:36,960 --> 01:39:39,280
Speaker 1: But you know, one of the great Martin Luther King

1842
01:39:39,360 --> 01:39:42,479
Speaker 1: quotes is that the arc of history bends towards justice. Well,

1843
01:39:42,520 --> 01:39:45,840
Speaker 1: one of the alternative ways. I like to use that metaphors.

1844
01:39:46,280 --> 01:39:49,759
Speaker 1: You know, if you've ever gone onto a big loopy

1845
01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:51,760
Speaker 1: loop on a big highway, Miami's got one of these

1846
01:39:51,800 --> 01:39:54,799
Speaker 1: where in order to go south, you have to go north,

1847
01:39:55,280 --> 01:39:59,479
Speaker 1: meaning your arc goes so backwards before you get to

1848
01:39:59,479 --> 01:40:00,320
Speaker 1: go forward.

1849
01:40:00,240 --> 01:40:01,040
Speaker 2: Right, you know.

1850
01:40:01,640 --> 01:40:04,759
Speaker 1: And so yes, I believe the arc of history bends

1851
01:40:04,760 --> 01:40:09,960
Speaker 1: towards justice, but sometimes you go backwards before you get

1852
01:40:10,040 --> 01:40:13,920
Speaker 1: to go back forwards again. So, and that's been the

1853
01:40:13,960 --> 01:40:17,280
Speaker 1: story of America. You know, we have over time created

1854
01:40:17,280 --> 01:40:20,040
Speaker 1: a more perfect union. And like the stock market, the

1855
01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:24,880
Speaker 1: era is always getting up eventually, but we have these dips.

1856
01:40:25,360 --> 01:40:29,599
Speaker 1: Sometimes they're really really scary dips. McCarthyism was a scary dip.

1857
01:40:29,960 --> 01:40:33,680
Speaker 1: This feels like a scary dip. We dip, but we

1858
01:40:33,760 --> 01:40:39,920
Speaker 1: eventually we eventually get there. At least that's my story

1859
01:40:39,920 --> 01:40:43,679
Speaker 1: and I'm sticking to it, I promise, all right. Next

1860
01:40:43,760 --> 01:40:47,840
Speaker 1: question comes from another Chuck, a fellow Chuck Chuck S.

1861
01:40:48,280 --> 01:40:50,639
Speaker 2: I'm Chuck T. Thanks for writing in he goes.

1862
01:40:50,680 --> 01:40:53,040
Speaker 1: I appreciate your recent comments about engaging with people who

1863
01:40:53,040 --> 01:40:55,559
Speaker 1: hold different political views. I agree it's important, But how

1864
01:40:55,560 --> 01:40:58,160
Speaker 1: do you have meaningful discussions about the economy, foreign affairs,

1865
01:40:58,640 --> 01:41:00,960
Speaker 1: or progress when you can't even agree and basic facts

1866
01:41:01,479 --> 01:41:05,559
Speaker 1: it's one hundred percent true. It feels like truth has

1867
01:41:05,560 --> 01:41:08,360
Speaker 1: become optional. Controlling is the norm, like trying to debate

1868
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:10,759
Speaker 1: science with a flat earther. How do we move forward

1869
01:41:10,800 --> 01:41:13,680
Speaker 1: when reality itself seems up for debate? Thanks love for

1870
01:41:13,720 --> 01:41:17,080
Speaker 1: the show. Look, this is the real challenge that we're

1871
01:41:17,080 --> 01:41:19,840
Speaker 1: there on this and this is where we need more

1872
01:41:19,880 --> 01:41:23,680
Speaker 1: help from the right side of the aisle. I think

1873
01:41:23,760 --> 01:41:25,880
Speaker 1: the biggest difference between Trump one point oh and Trump

1874
01:41:25,960 --> 01:41:28,639
Speaker 1: two point zero is the is the lack of spine

1875
01:41:28,680 --> 01:41:32,439
Speaker 1: among some Republicans who are extraordinarily uncomfortable with what he's

1876
01:41:32,479 --> 01:41:34,519
Speaker 1: doing with the self enrichment, what he's doing with the

1877
01:41:34,600 --> 01:41:36,840
Speaker 1: rule of law, how he's just you know, I mean,

1878
01:41:38,360 --> 01:41:40,599
Speaker 1: I know a lot of these Republican senators and Republican

1879
01:41:40,600 --> 01:41:42,800
Speaker 1: members of Congress, and I'm going to say something that

1880
01:41:42,840 --> 01:41:44,400
Speaker 1: some of you just aren't going to agree with, but

1881
01:41:44,400 --> 01:41:46,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you it's true. Ninety five percent

1882
01:41:46,120 --> 01:41:47,960
Speaker 1: of these people came here for the right reasons. You

1883
01:41:48,000 --> 01:41:49,800
Speaker 1: may not agree with some of their points of view,

1884
01:41:49,800 --> 01:41:56,439
Speaker 1: but They came here ostensibly believing in these institutions, but

1885
01:41:56,520 --> 01:41:58,800
Speaker 1: they want to be in politics so bad, and they

1886
01:41:58,920 --> 01:42:01,559
Speaker 1: want to stay in good standing in the Republican Party

1887
01:42:01,640 --> 01:42:05,800
Speaker 1: so bad that they rationalize their way out of out

1888
01:42:05,800 --> 01:42:09,799
Speaker 1: of these things. You know, one of my favorite little

1889
01:42:10,600 --> 01:42:13,920
Speaker 1: stories of late and I say favorite loosely here is

1890
01:42:14,240 --> 01:42:16,240
Speaker 1: there's a lot of grumpy they're starting to become a

1891
01:42:16,360 --> 01:42:19,479
Speaker 1: little bit of a grumpiness among some Republican senators about

1892
01:42:19,520 --> 01:42:23,519
Speaker 1: John Thune. And you know what the chief complain is

1893
01:42:23,560 --> 01:42:27,879
Speaker 1: that John Thune hasn't pushed back on Trump enough. Essentially,

1894
01:42:27,960 --> 01:42:30,479
Speaker 1: what these senators are saying is, hey, we don't have

1895
01:42:30,560 --> 01:42:32,400
Speaker 1: the guts to push back on them, but we were

1896
01:42:32,439 --> 01:42:35,400
Speaker 1: hoping you could protect us from having to, you know,

1897
01:42:35,520 --> 01:42:39,720
Speaker 1: vote for these terrible nominees. Right, you know that, you

1898
01:42:39,760 --> 01:42:40,479
Speaker 1: know why?

1899
01:42:40,520 --> 01:42:40,720
Speaker 2: Why?

1900
01:42:40,800 --> 01:42:43,080
Speaker 1: You know, why couldn't you have stopped Pete Hegseth from

1901
01:42:43,080 --> 01:42:45,559
Speaker 1: coming to the floor. Why couldn't you have stopped Bobby

1902
01:42:45,600 --> 01:42:47,920
Speaker 1: Kennedy Junior from coming to the floor. Why couldn't you

1903
01:42:47,960 --> 01:42:52,240
Speaker 1: have stopped Telsey Gabbard from coming to the floor. And

1904
01:42:52,280 --> 01:42:55,559
Speaker 1: I'm you know, and weird. I'm going to defend Thune

1905
01:42:55,560 --> 01:42:58,640
Speaker 1: here on this Look, you know, Thune was not a

1906
01:42:58,680 --> 01:43:01,200
Speaker 1: MAGA guy, and he's always been worried that, you know,

1907
01:43:01,200 --> 01:43:03,519
Speaker 1: if Trump turns on him, he's done right.

1908
01:43:03,680 --> 01:43:04,040
Speaker 2: Essentially.

1909
01:43:04,120 --> 01:43:06,840
Speaker 1: Rick Scott ran as the MAGA candidate for Majority Leader

1910
01:43:07,520 --> 01:43:09,960
Speaker 1: and he didn't win. So we know a majority of

1911
01:43:09,960 --> 01:43:14,080
Speaker 1: Republican senators don't want Trump to just you know, to

1912
01:43:14,240 --> 01:43:20,040
Speaker 1: have a Trump sycophant in that position. And yet Une

1913
01:43:20,160 --> 01:43:24,680
Speaker 1: is precarious himself. And we know these senators they but

1914
01:43:24,800 --> 01:43:28,240
Speaker 1: they don't have the guts to show their opposition in

1915
01:43:28,280 --> 01:43:32,600
Speaker 1: public on their own. And I think that's been the

1916
01:43:32,600 --> 01:43:36,680
Speaker 1: biggest problem, and it's the biggest problem with sort of

1917
01:43:36,720 --> 01:43:40,200
Speaker 1: normal debate, is you have to accept the premise of

1918
01:43:40,200 --> 01:43:44,559
Speaker 1: what's right and wrong, what's ethical and what's unethical, and

1919
01:43:44,640 --> 01:43:48,280
Speaker 1: right now those lines are so blurry they're impossible to see.

1920
01:43:49,560 --> 01:43:51,120
Speaker 1: I don't think the lines have been blurred. I think

1921
01:43:51,120 --> 01:43:56,679
Speaker 1: they've been erased. And you know what I'm concerned about

1922
01:43:56,920 --> 01:44:00,960
Speaker 1: is what we saw, you know, you know, you have

1923
01:44:01,040 --> 01:44:03,920
Speaker 1: the release of those awful texts from that from that

1924
01:44:03,960 --> 01:44:07,639
Speaker 1: young Republican club mostly out of the Northeast. I think

1925
01:44:07,680 --> 01:44:11,000
Speaker 1: what really is bothersome is how often we've seen this

1926
01:44:11,160 --> 01:44:15,240
Speaker 1: among among you know, sort of young aspiring Republicans in

1927
01:44:15,280 --> 01:44:18,040
Speaker 1: the Trump era under the age of thirty five, and

1928
01:44:18,120 --> 01:44:21,559
Speaker 1: how often they've had just such hateful, harmful rhetoric in

1929
01:44:21,640 --> 01:44:25,519
Speaker 1: their social media feeds or texts or whatever happens. Right,

1930
01:44:26,640 --> 01:44:28,439
Speaker 1: And you know, we're told, oh, kids are going to

1931
01:44:28,479 --> 01:44:31,920
Speaker 1: be kids, or you know, hey, youthful indiscretion. Right, Jade

1932
01:44:32,000 --> 01:44:35,320
Speaker 1: Vance's been trying to say, but what does it say

1933
01:44:35,360 --> 01:44:40,000
Speaker 1: about your party that as that these younger folks think

1934
01:44:40,160 --> 01:44:44,240
Speaker 1: if they, you know, play the fascist card, play the

1935
01:44:44,320 --> 01:44:48,000
Speaker 1: Nazi card, you know, nod in wink at a hitlerd

1936
01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:54,720
Speaker 1: as a quote unquote joke that actually ingratiates themselves with

1937
01:44:54,760 --> 01:45:00,439
Speaker 1: the movement. That I know, I would be a offended

1938
01:45:00,720 --> 01:45:06,280
Speaker 1: Vice President Vance if I thought the only way somebody

1939
01:45:06,280 --> 01:45:09,839
Speaker 1: would feel noticed by me is if I bragged about

1940
01:45:10,280 --> 01:45:14,000
Speaker 1: how much I'm willing to praise the Nazis or praise Hitler.

1941
01:45:15,240 --> 01:45:18,960
Speaker 1: And yet that seems to be the message that has

1942
01:45:19,000 --> 01:45:23,639
Speaker 1: been sent to so many of these young these these

1943
01:45:23,680 --> 01:45:27,400
Speaker 1: young conservatives who think that's what debate is. Owning the

1944
01:45:27,439 --> 01:45:30,800
Speaker 1: Libs is what debate is creating memes that have the

1945
01:45:30,840 --> 01:45:35,040
Speaker 1: president literally shitting on the country in a in a

1946
01:45:35,280 --> 01:45:41,600
Speaker 1: in an AI created airplane that this is funny, good politics,

1947
01:45:43,200 --> 01:45:48,880
Speaker 1: just part of the political debate. You know that That's

1948
01:45:48,920 --> 01:45:51,760
Speaker 1: where you wonder if we lost an entire generation who

1949
01:45:51,840 --> 01:45:57,599
Speaker 1: think this is what practicing politics successfully looks like. This

1950
01:45:57,680 --> 01:45:59,880
Speaker 1: is the this is the stuff that i've you know,

1951
01:46:00,040 --> 01:46:02,680
Speaker 1: that have made me want to, you know, you know,

1952
01:46:02,840 --> 01:46:05,080
Speaker 1: walk away from mainstream media and say, what, what the

1953
01:46:05,120 --> 01:46:05,800
Speaker 1: hell is this?

1954
01:46:06,400 --> 01:46:08,080
Speaker 2: We've got to fix this.

1955
01:46:08,680 --> 01:46:12,200
Speaker 1: We've got to create a new media ecosystem, a new

1956
01:46:12,240 --> 01:46:15,680
Speaker 1: information ecosystem. We've got to create better incentives. We've got

1957
01:46:15,680 --> 01:46:17,840
Speaker 1: to update our constitution. We've got a lot of work

1958
01:46:17,880 --> 01:46:22,280
Speaker 1: to do on this stuff. And I think that you know,

1959
01:46:22,360 --> 01:46:24,479
Speaker 1: you start you look at some of the stuff being

1960
01:46:24,520 --> 01:46:28,840
Speaker 1: done and being sort of tolerated right now in our politics,

1961
01:46:29,640 --> 01:46:31,160
Speaker 1: and if you put it in a poll question and

1962
01:46:31,160 --> 01:46:33,719
Speaker 1: ask people whether they found this to be acceptable behavior,

1963
01:46:34,160 --> 01:46:36,760
Speaker 1: it would be eighty twenty to the No. Okay, this

1964
01:46:36,800 --> 01:46:40,440
Speaker 1: isn't a fifty. This isn't a fifty to fifty mindset,

1965
01:46:40,520 --> 01:46:45,720
Speaker 1: And yet it looks like it is. And certainly the

1966
01:46:45,880 --> 01:46:49,840
Speaker 1: currency of succeeding in the MAGA movement looks like this.

1967
01:46:51,160 --> 01:46:53,599
Speaker 1: That's it that should be embarrassing to the maga movement.

1968
01:46:54,200 --> 01:46:56,320
Speaker 1: That's you know that that is not how you build

1969
01:46:56,320 --> 01:47:00,600
Speaker 1: a sustainable political movement. At some point people are going

1970
01:47:00,680 --> 01:47:06,240
Speaker 1: to be disgusted enough that they're out completely. But it is,

1971
01:47:06,320 --> 01:47:08,479
Speaker 1: it is the it is the problem with political debate.

1972
01:47:08,520 --> 01:47:11,679
Speaker 1: I mean, look at the nonsense that you see out

1973
01:47:11,680 --> 01:47:16,120
Speaker 1: of out of these cable chat shows at night. You know,

1974
01:47:16,200 --> 01:47:19,200
Speaker 1: those that attempt to have a have two people debating.

1975
01:47:19,200 --> 01:47:23,000
Speaker 1: They're not debates. They're just sort of like they're talk.

1976
01:47:23,320 --> 01:47:26,120
Speaker 1: It's like you're it's like you got talking. You know,

1977
01:47:26,400 --> 01:47:30,840
Speaker 1: it's as if the social media memes have been translated

1978
01:47:30,880 --> 01:47:33,960
Speaker 1: into words and you've got the you know, everybody's trying

1979
01:47:33,960 --> 01:47:37,320
Speaker 1: to dunk on everybody else. But it's not a meaningful conversation,

1980
01:47:37,400 --> 01:47:40,519
Speaker 1: and it certainly doesn't advance anything. All right, old man

1981
01:47:40,640 --> 01:47:44,160
Speaker 1: yelling at cloud comes to an end, Chuck s all right.

1982
01:47:44,600 --> 01:47:47,040
Speaker 1: Next question comes from John from New Jersey. Hey, Chuck,

1983
01:47:47,080 --> 01:47:49,759
Speaker 1: I've been loving the longer format lately. Your guests, especially

1984
01:47:49,760 --> 01:47:53,080
Speaker 1: Mark Zandy, at such great depth to complex topics. Well,

1985
01:47:53,120 --> 01:47:54,800
Speaker 1: thank you for saying that you mentioned earlier this summer

1986
01:47:54,800 --> 01:47:56,960
Speaker 1: that Pete Eggs at the Pan BONDI might be out

1987
01:47:56,960 --> 01:47:59,439
Speaker 1: of their role soon. Yeah, Oops, yet they seem both

1988
01:47:59,439 --> 01:48:00,519
Speaker 1: seem solid in place.

1989
01:48:00,600 --> 01:48:00,760
Speaker 2: Now.

1990
01:48:01,400 --> 01:48:03,320
Speaker 1: Can you share what might have changed or if this

1991
01:48:03,360 --> 01:48:06,280
Speaker 1: suggests others like Kennedy could be sticking around too. And

1992
01:48:06,320 --> 01:48:08,479
Speaker 1: by the way, as someone who's college didn't have a

1993
01:48:08,479 --> 01:48:11,080
Speaker 1: football team, your college sports talk has officially turned me

1994
01:48:11,120 --> 01:48:14,280
Speaker 1: into a college football fan that watches every Saturday, John

1995
01:48:14,320 --> 01:48:17,320
Speaker 1: from New Jersey. It's great to hear John, and I

1996
01:48:17,360 --> 01:48:19,880
Speaker 1: will tell you it bothers me that New Jersey. You know,

1997
01:48:20,200 --> 01:48:23,400
Speaker 1: Rutgers was one of the founding members of college football, right,

1998
01:48:23,439 --> 01:48:27,719
Speaker 1: the first games competitive games played, Right, the initial powers

1999
01:48:27,720 --> 01:48:32,680
Speaker 1: were Rutgers, New Jersey. New Jersey should be, you know,

2000
01:48:32,760 --> 01:48:35,960
Speaker 1: finding more ways to make Rutgers football great. I'd say

2001
01:48:35,960 --> 01:48:38,360
Speaker 1: great again, but it's been such a long time since

2002
01:48:38,400 --> 01:48:40,760
Speaker 1: the late nineteenth century that it's hard to say that

2003
01:48:40,840 --> 01:48:43,400
Speaker 1: was the I'd say that's the last time. But I

2004
01:48:43,439 --> 01:48:45,639
Speaker 1: have a feeling if Rutgers were better at college football,

2005
01:48:45,640 --> 01:48:47,880
Speaker 1: maybe you would have you know, the rest of maybe

2006
01:48:47,880 --> 01:48:50,839
Speaker 1: you'd be been a bigger fan sooner. But I'm glad

2007
01:48:51,640 --> 01:48:54,160
Speaker 1: I've brought you. I just think college football's you know,

2008
01:48:54,439 --> 01:48:59,080
Speaker 1: it's the best drama on TV these days. I actually

2009
01:48:59,120 --> 01:49:03,559
Speaker 1: had a conversation with somebody very tied into Trump world

2010
01:49:03,600 --> 01:49:09,320
Speaker 1: these days. I had this conversation today actually today is

2011
01:49:09,400 --> 01:49:11,280
Speaker 1: the middle of the week, I'm and it's the evening

2012
01:49:12,120 --> 01:49:16,320
Speaker 1: or here before Thursday, yes, full trans full disclosure here,

2013
01:49:16,400 --> 01:49:21,240
Speaker 1: I'm taping this on Wednesday evening going into Thursday. And

2014
01:49:21,760 --> 01:49:25,679
Speaker 1: this person said that they're One thing Donald Trump didn't

2015
01:49:25,800 --> 01:49:28,400
Speaker 1: like reputationally was this idea that he couldn't keep a

2016
01:49:28,439 --> 01:49:31,240
Speaker 1: staff in the first term, because that really was the narrative, right,

2017
01:49:31,520 --> 01:49:33,679
Speaker 1: how many national security advisors did he go through?

2018
01:49:33,720 --> 01:49:35,960
Speaker 2: I think it was for how many chiefs of staff.

2019
01:49:36,040 --> 01:49:38,439
Speaker 1: I think it was for how many secretaries of State,

2020
01:49:38,479 --> 01:49:41,960
Speaker 1: how many secretaries of defense? Right, So he's been determined

2021
01:49:42,000 --> 01:49:44,479
Speaker 1: and he doesn't want to quote give the media a win.

2022
01:49:44,680 --> 01:49:47,840
Speaker 1: So under the rules of Trump one point oh, we'd

2023
01:49:47,880 --> 01:49:51,479
Speaker 1: already hag Seth, Bondi, Kennedy all would be gone. But

2024
01:49:51,600 --> 01:49:54,519
Speaker 1: under the rules of Trump two point zero, I think

2025
01:49:54,560 --> 01:49:55,679
Speaker 1: you've got to be rowing.

2026
01:49:55,520 --> 01:49:57,040
Speaker 2: Moore type of problems.

2027
01:49:57,800 --> 01:50:00,240
Speaker 1: Or as we found out, you know what does it

2028
01:50:00,280 --> 01:50:03,599
Speaker 1: take to to sort of lose standing in Trump world?

2029
01:50:05,360 --> 01:50:07,960
Speaker 1: You got to get caught before your confirmation doing saying

2030
01:50:07,960 --> 01:50:11,160
Speaker 1: something horrible or or doing something like that.

2031
01:50:11,280 --> 01:50:12,000
Speaker 2: It's it doesn't.

2032
01:50:12,000 --> 01:50:15,519
Speaker 1: But he doesn't want the drama. He doesn't want it

2033
01:50:15,600 --> 01:50:19,600
Speaker 1: seen as that, and so he has had a higher tolerance.

2034
01:50:21,680 --> 01:50:24,160
Speaker 1: But the message it's gone out the cabinet secretaries. No

2035
01:50:24,240 --> 01:50:27,360
Speaker 1: matter what kind of precarious position you're in, the more

2036
01:50:27,360 --> 01:50:31,640
Speaker 1: you suck up to him, the safer your seat will be.

2037
01:50:31,840 --> 01:50:35,439
Speaker 1: But most of this the reason, and I'll fully admit

2038
01:50:35,560 --> 01:50:37,720
Speaker 1: I thought we were still operating.

2039
01:50:37,320 --> 01:50:39,519
Speaker 2: By the rules of Trump one point zero.

2040
01:50:39,600 --> 01:50:41,439
Speaker 1: Now I will say this, we're still eight months in, right,

2041
01:50:41,920 --> 01:50:43,920
Speaker 1: and we're just like, oh my god, he hasn't gotten

2042
01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:46,200
Speaker 1: rid of somebody eight months in. I mean, well he has, right,

2043
01:50:46,240 --> 01:50:50,000
Speaker 1: He's on his second National Security advisor. I think Marco Rubio, Right,

2044
01:50:50,080 --> 01:50:52,719
Speaker 1: he's I still believe, the head of the Archive, like seriously,

2045
01:50:52,760 --> 01:50:57,519
Speaker 1: head of the Archives, Secretary of State, National Security Advisor,

2046
01:50:57,720 --> 01:51:00,439
Speaker 1: Sean Duffy's ahead of NASA, and the Secretary of Train Insportation.

2047
01:51:00,600 --> 01:51:00,760
Speaker 2: Right.

2048
01:51:00,840 --> 01:51:04,200
Speaker 1: Remember, we've some of these people in multiple jobs because

2049
01:51:04,200 --> 01:51:08,960
Speaker 1: he can't get some people confirmed. But the big piece

2050
01:51:09,000 --> 01:51:12,080
Speaker 1: of intel that I learned today is actually he's he is.

2051
01:51:12,520 --> 01:51:15,040
Speaker 1: He does not like he did not. It was the

2052
01:51:15,080 --> 01:51:18,080
Speaker 1: biggest thing he didn't like about his first term is

2053
01:51:18,080 --> 01:51:21,640
Speaker 1: that it looked like he that he had a reputation

2054
01:51:21,720 --> 01:51:25,519
Speaker 1: of just going through cabinet secretaries left and right, and

2055
01:51:25,600 --> 01:51:38,599
Speaker 1: he wanted to stop that. I'm gonna take one more

2056
01:51:38,680 --> 01:51:42,240
Speaker 1: question here and then i will go into said long

2057
01:51:42,880 --> 01:51:44,000
Speaker 1: my college football preview.

2058
01:51:45,439 --> 01:51:47,840
Speaker 2: Thanks for all you do. Appreciated Colin Coward's appearance on

2059
01:51:47,880 --> 01:51:49,559
Speaker 2: your pod. Yeah, so did.

2060
01:51:49,600 --> 01:51:52,080
Speaker 1: I appreciated that. I think it would be really informative

2061
01:51:52,080 --> 01:51:53,920
Speaker 1: for the audience if you started a segment similar to

2062
01:51:53,960 --> 01:51:55,960
Speaker 1: Cowards what Colin got right and what Colin got wrong.

2063
01:51:56,160 --> 01:51:57,760
Speaker 1: For example, you mentioned a while back that you thought

2064
01:51:57,800 --> 01:51:59,280
Speaker 1: the shutdown would last a week or two, and it

2065
01:51:59,360 --> 01:52:01,720
Speaker 1: obviously lasting longer than that. I'd love to understand the

2066
01:52:01,760 --> 01:52:04,519
Speaker 1: underlying reasons of why you thought that and what assumptions

2067
01:52:04,520 --> 01:52:06,760
Speaker 1: you had that ended up being incorrect. Obviously lots of

2068
01:52:06,760 --> 01:52:09,680
Speaker 1: instances where you're right to and I like to understand

2069
01:52:09,800 --> 01:52:12,800
Speaker 1: those underlining assumptions logic as well. I think it would

2070
01:52:12,840 --> 01:52:15,720
Speaker 1: be very informative, Go Cane strew A. I think it's

2071
01:52:15,760 --> 01:52:18,880
Speaker 1: a good idea for a straight up segment, and you're right,

2072
01:52:18,920 --> 01:52:21,479
Speaker 1: I do. I'd like to think I that if you're

2073
01:52:21,520 --> 01:52:25,160
Speaker 1: listening continuously, I you know, I don't pretend like I

2074
01:52:25,200 --> 01:52:27,640
Speaker 1: didn't say those things. Look, I I'll tell you why

2075
01:52:27,680 --> 01:52:30,320
Speaker 1: I got the shut down wrong on that one, because

2076
01:52:30,360 --> 01:52:36,000
Speaker 1: I just didn't. I didn't think the the Democrats had

2077
01:52:36,000 --> 01:52:39,360
Speaker 1: the stomach for it, and I thought the Republican ask

2078
01:52:39,520 --> 01:52:42,639
Speaker 1: was reasonable, and I couldn't believe the Democrats were going

2079
01:52:42,680 --> 01:52:45,679
Speaker 1: to be the less reasonable party here when it came

2080
01:52:45,720 --> 01:52:49,479
Speaker 1: to you know, temporary keeping the government going another six weeks.

2081
01:52:51,000 --> 01:52:53,760
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm still sort of think this is

2082
01:52:53,760 --> 01:52:56,640
Speaker 1: head scratching. But what I think I got wrong was

2083
01:52:56,840 --> 01:53:02,679
Speaker 1: underestimating the siloed information ecosystem both you know, the feedback

2084
01:53:02,720 --> 01:53:05,160
Speaker 1: loop for Democrats makes them think they're winning and the

2085
01:53:05,160 --> 01:53:08,360
Speaker 1: feedback loop from Republicans makes them think they're winning. That's

2086
01:53:08,439 --> 01:53:11,479
Speaker 1: not an insignificant development. And the fact that we have

2087
01:53:11,520 --> 01:53:14,360
Speaker 1: these it's also why goes back tying back into my

2088
01:53:14,439 --> 01:53:18,880
Speaker 1: opening monologue today on this podcast. I don't think Donald

2089
01:53:18,920 --> 01:53:21,600
Speaker 1: Trump gets the feedback loop of non maga right. And

2090
01:53:21,640 --> 01:53:23,959
Speaker 1: when you don't get it, you don't realize how damaging

2091
01:53:23,960 --> 01:53:27,240
Speaker 1: what you're doing could actually be. So, you know, this

2092
01:53:27,439 --> 01:53:31,599
Speaker 1: is what a fragmented ecosystem can do, can really sort

2093
01:53:31,640 --> 01:53:35,439
Speaker 1: of get you farther out of touch with the voters.

2094
01:53:35,520 --> 01:53:40,200
Speaker 1: Faster than ever before. So on that instance, that is

2095
01:53:40,200 --> 01:53:43,920
Speaker 1: one hundred percent that I was. I just did not

2096
01:53:44,479 --> 01:53:49,320
Speaker 1: see that. It Again, I go back to, you know,

2097
01:53:49,400 --> 01:53:53,400
Speaker 1: I thought this is not worth a full what if.

2098
01:53:53,560 --> 01:53:57,000
Speaker 1: But I think the Democrats made a tactical mistake by

2099
01:53:57,120 --> 01:54:02,800
Speaker 1: making a six continuing resolution the hill to die on.

2100
01:54:03,680 --> 01:54:06,000
Speaker 1: I think the better hill to dieon was after a

2101
01:54:06,040 --> 01:54:10,000
Speaker 1: continuing resolution where you basically you bought the full six

2102
01:54:10,040 --> 01:54:12,439
Speaker 1: month and you got And in fact, I think they'd

2103
01:54:12,479 --> 01:54:18,480
Speaker 1: even have more more of the of the political zeitgeist

2104
01:54:18,520 --> 01:54:23,600
Speaker 1: on their side. Right if November one hit, the premium,

2105
01:54:24,160 --> 01:54:28,240
Speaker 1: the premium, the shock and rising premiums hit, then they

2106
01:54:28,240 --> 01:54:31,719
Speaker 1: have this sort of you know budget impass on November

2107
01:54:31,720 --> 01:54:36,960
Speaker 1: twenty first, then having the fight over Obamacare subsidies seems

2108
01:54:37,080 --> 01:54:41,480
Speaker 1: like a logical thing to do. Look, the problem, you know,

2109
01:54:41,520 --> 01:54:43,680
Speaker 1: I always say sometimes the problem I have is I

2110
01:54:43,720 --> 01:54:46,480
Speaker 1: know too much. What what you know? It may look

2111
01:54:46,720 --> 01:54:49,400
Speaker 1: like to plenty of people that Democrats shut you know,

2112
01:54:49,480 --> 01:54:52,920
Speaker 1: did this for healthcare subsidies. Democrats were looking for a

2113
01:54:52,960 --> 01:54:56,600
Speaker 1: reason to have a showdown with them, and they decided

2114
01:54:56,640 --> 01:54:59,880
Speaker 1: healthcare subsidies pulled the best. And I think that this

2115
01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:02,560
Speaker 1: this is also why I was a bit probably have

2116
01:55:02,600 --> 01:55:07,400
Speaker 1: been a bit little where my assumptions got off on this,

2117
01:55:07,560 --> 01:55:11,120
Speaker 1: But I now I now see in hindsight, this was

2118
01:55:12,520 --> 01:55:14,480
Speaker 1: they were going to They were going to have this confrontation.

2119
01:55:14,760 --> 01:55:17,640
Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer politically felt like he had to have this confrontation.

2120
01:55:18,200 --> 01:55:22,080
Speaker 1: What was the best rationale healthcare subsidies pulled the best

2121
01:55:22,680 --> 01:55:25,680
Speaker 1: on that one. But I like your idea, and it's

2122
01:55:25,680 --> 01:55:27,360
Speaker 1: a good idea to sort of, you know, you know,

2123
01:55:27,440 --> 01:55:31,000
Speaker 1: maybe once a month here twice a month, use my

2124
01:55:31,920 --> 01:55:35,280
Speaker 1: my Q and a time to address that one more.

2125
01:55:35,280 --> 01:55:36,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to hit from Jason P.

2126
01:55:37,240 --> 01:55:37,520
Speaker 2: That way.

2127
01:55:37,560 --> 01:55:40,400
Speaker 1: I got six in today trying. My son has been

2128
01:55:40,400 --> 01:55:41,960
Speaker 1: giving me a hard time. He doesn't think I answer

2129
01:55:42,080 --> 01:55:44,000
Speaker 1: enough of your questions. I guess is you guys think

2130
01:55:44,040 --> 01:55:46,640
Speaker 1: that's right too. Here's what Jason P writes. He says, Hey,

2131
01:55:46,680 --> 01:55:48,280
Speaker 1: I love starting my mornings with your show. You always

2132
01:55:48,320 --> 01:55:50,880
Speaker 1: make me think and challenge my assumptions. I get your

2133
01:55:50,880 --> 01:55:52,920
Speaker 1: point about Democrats need to be the adults in the room,

2134
01:55:52,920 --> 01:55:54,480
Speaker 1: but as someone who leans left, it's hard to not

2135
01:55:54,520 --> 01:55:57,400
Speaker 1: feel frustrated when it seems like Republicans keep breaking norms

2136
01:55:57,400 --> 01:55:59,720
Speaker 1: and getting away with it. From redistricting, to rule bending.

2137
01:55:59,720 --> 01:56:02,280
Speaker 1: How to do democrats uphold core values without sounding preachy

2138
01:56:02,840 --> 01:56:05,920
Speaker 1: or like hall monitor. It's a huge struggle. I get that,

2139
01:56:06,160 --> 01:56:09,320
Speaker 1: especially if the saving democracy message isn't resonating anymore. And

2140
01:56:09,360 --> 01:56:11,440
Speaker 1: on a lighter note, as a Wisconsin football fan, which

2141
01:56:11,480 --> 01:56:13,960
Speaker 1: would take on programs like our struggling to keep up

2142
01:56:14,280 --> 01:56:17,560
Speaker 1: in the New Power Conference era adjacent p So, look,

2143
01:56:17,880 --> 01:56:21,760
Speaker 1: I get this first question a lot, you know, in

2144
01:56:21,800 --> 01:56:24,640
Speaker 1: a retort on my whole adults in the room rant,

2145
01:56:24,720 --> 01:56:29,880
Speaker 1: and look, I think what you gotta do is you

2146
01:56:29,960 --> 01:56:31,680
Speaker 1: got to tie these things again.

2147
01:56:31,760 --> 01:56:32,800
Speaker 2: I go back. I think.

2148
01:56:34,120 --> 01:56:36,440
Speaker 1: I may use a line that I use all of that.

2149
01:56:38,320 --> 01:56:40,440
Speaker 1: What is this thing taught us? I'm holding up an

2150
01:56:40,440 --> 01:56:44,280
Speaker 1: iPhone for those of you listening on audio only. Well,

2151
01:56:44,280 --> 01:56:48,080
Speaker 1: there's two things I've learned from social media. One is

2152
01:56:48,080 --> 01:56:52,879
Speaker 1: we're all a little bit narcissistic, right, We've all decided

2153
01:56:52,960 --> 01:56:54,840
Speaker 1: whatever's happening around us we should share.

2154
01:56:56,040 --> 01:56:56,200
Speaker 2: Now.

2155
01:56:56,240 --> 01:56:58,360
Speaker 1: What that also tells me is, hey, we really like

2156
01:56:58,640 --> 01:57:01,880
Speaker 1: micro local news, right. We think whatever's happening around us

2157
01:57:01,960 --> 01:57:04,960
Speaker 1: is so important that more people ought to understand what's

2158
01:57:04,960 --> 01:57:07,360
Speaker 1: happening around us. So there's been always been a part

2159
01:57:07,400 --> 01:57:09,480
Speaker 1: of me that says Hey, lean into this, you know,

2160
01:57:10,600 --> 01:57:13,880
Speaker 1: but ultimately, you know, it's why why do we always

2161
01:57:13,920 --> 01:57:16,280
Speaker 1: say it's the Why did krvil say it's economy stupid?

2162
01:57:16,320 --> 01:57:18,840
Speaker 1: Why do we always say every election is a pocketbook election?

2163
01:57:18,880 --> 01:57:23,000
Speaker 1: Because ultimately, what we're really saying is most voters vote

2164
01:57:23,000 --> 01:57:26,680
Speaker 1: in their self interest. It's just depends on what they

2165
01:57:26,720 --> 01:57:28,760
Speaker 1: believe their self interest is at the moment.

2166
01:57:29,160 --> 01:57:29,320
Speaker 2: Right.

2167
01:57:29,360 --> 01:57:31,720
Speaker 1: I know some people think, no, those voters aren't voting

2168
01:57:31,760 --> 01:57:34,760
Speaker 1: their self interest. They don't understand. They believe they are

2169
01:57:34,840 --> 01:57:37,840
Speaker 1: voting their self interest. You know, culture may be more

2170
01:57:37,840 --> 01:57:40,600
Speaker 1: of a self interest to them than you know, how

2171
01:57:40,680 --> 01:57:43,440
Speaker 1: much medicaid support that they get and things like that.

2172
01:57:44,480 --> 01:57:49,560
Speaker 1: But what I would say is, ultimately, Democrats, I think,

2173
01:57:49,640 --> 01:57:51,360
Speaker 1: could be campaigning on these issues.

2174
01:57:51,400 --> 01:57:53,480
Speaker 2: But if you do it through the prism of.

2175
01:57:55,640 --> 01:58:00,240
Speaker 1: The voter themselves, right, which is you're upset about this, Well,

2176
01:58:00,280 --> 01:58:03,040
Speaker 1: guess what, it's because they're doing that that they're not

2177
01:58:03,160 --> 01:58:06,760
Speaker 1: helping you here. I think that if I were to say,

2178
01:58:06,840 --> 01:58:09,200
Speaker 1: what do Democrats really need to improve on when it

2179
01:58:09,240 --> 01:58:15,520
Speaker 1: comes to their anti Trump messaging is connecting Trump's own narcissism,

2180
01:58:15,560 --> 01:58:20,480
Speaker 1: Trump's own self dealing, Trump's own greed with how that

2181
01:58:20,680 --> 01:58:25,120
Speaker 1: has not put America first, right, you essentially run Trump

2182
01:58:25,160 --> 01:58:28,879
Speaker 1: against Trump. It's still the best thing to do in politics.

2183
01:58:28,880 --> 01:58:32,720
Speaker 1: Whenever you can run somebody against their own promises, run

2184
01:58:32,800 --> 01:58:36,400
Speaker 1: some run and you know, run on an issue that

2185
01:58:36,520 --> 01:58:40,360
Speaker 1: your opponent said they were going to solve but didn't. Right,

2186
01:58:40,520 --> 01:58:44,880
Speaker 1: those are always the most powerful political messages. Running on

2187
01:58:44,920 --> 01:58:49,680
Speaker 1: democracy alone wasn't going to do it. But explaining how

2188
01:58:49,720 --> 01:58:52,840
Speaker 1: it you know, in some ways COVID made it easy

2189
01:58:52,880 --> 01:58:55,240
Speaker 1: to see. God, Trump's so consumed with himself he won't

2190
01:58:55,280 --> 01:58:58,720
Speaker 1: even care about how this is impacting me. But ultimately

2191
01:58:59,240 --> 01:59:02,920
Speaker 1: you've always got to connected to the me, right, and

2192
01:59:03,000 --> 01:59:05,120
Speaker 1: so for that voter, whether they live in Des Moines,

2193
01:59:05,200 --> 01:59:07,880
Speaker 1: whether they live in Rolla, Missouri, whether they live in Miami, Florida,

2194
01:59:07,920 --> 01:59:11,600
Speaker 1: whether they live in Arlington, Virginia, you know, you know

2195
01:59:11,880 --> 01:59:13,600
Speaker 1: the them, right? What what what.

2196
01:59:13,600 --> 01:59:15,560
Speaker 2: Is it that that that this is.

2197
01:59:15,520 --> 01:59:19,120
Speaker 1: Taking away from them? And it can't be just sort

2198
01:59:19,120 --> 01:59:21,280
Speaker 1: of taking away rights in general. It's but you know,

2199
01:59:21,400 --> 01:59:31,600
Speaker 1: impacting your kids, your spouses, your parents, your grandparents. When

2200
01:59:31,680 --> 01:59:35,200
Speaker 1: whenever Democrats are running that way, right, that's how they

2201
01:59:35,640 --> 01:59:40,160
Speaker 1: eviscerated Mitt Romney in twenty twelve. You know, he doesn't

2202
01:59:40,160 --> 01:59:42,640
Speaker 1: care you know. Essentially, it's all about I've always thought

2203
01:59:42,640 --> 01:59:44,800
Speaker 1: one of the most important questions, you know, ask us

2204
01:59:44,800 --> 01:59:49,760
Speaker 1: which care which candidate cares cares about you? Right?

2205
01:59:49,840 --> 01:59:52,040
Speaker 2: It just it's it's it's.

2206
01:59:52,240 --> 01:59:54,080
Speaker 1: Knowing there and right now. I think a lot more

2207
01:59:54,080 --> 01:59:58,680
Speaker 1: people thought Donald Trump in you know, when he said, look,

2208
01:59:58,720 --> 02:00:01,920
Speaker 1: this is his brilliance of saying no tax on tips. Right,

2209
02:00:02,160 --> 02:00:04,440
Speaker 1: it was sort of like, I hear you service workers,

2210
02:00:05,000 --> 02:00:08,000
Speaker 1: even though is he really helping service workers? But it is.

2211
02:00:08,600 --> 02:00:12,160
Speaker 1: I guess that's where I think that the Democrats could

2212
02:00:12,200 --> 02:00:17,720
Speaker 1: be doing a lot better. All Right, everybody's asked for it.

2213
02:00:18,640 --> 02:00:20,720
Speaker 1: Either that or I'm curating the questions in such a

2214
02:00:20,760 --> 02:00:26,480
Speaker 1: way that that I make it seem as if everybody

2215
02:00:26,480 --> 02:00:29,280
Speaker 1: loves uh loves all the college football stuff that we do.

2216
02:00:31,760 --> 02:00:35,800
Speaker 1: So on, so get here's here's a here's a big

2217
02:00:35,840 --> 02:00:39,720
Speaker 1: hot take prediction for this week's college football action. There

2218
02:00:39,800 --> 02:00:43,560
Speaker 1: is not like a super marquee game or marquee games.

2219
02:00:44,200 --> 02:00:47,760
Speaker 1: You know what that means. Everybody's on upset alert right

2220
02:00:48,040 --> 02:00:52,040
Speaker 1: the weekends that lack the big game that you're firing

2221
02:00:52,080 --> 02:00:56,320
Speaker 1: people up for, you know, your Georgia Alabama's or or

2222
02:00:56,360 --> 02:01:01,080
Speaker 1: you're you know, Miami Notre Dames or you're in Oregon's right,

2223
02:01:01,120 --> 02:01:03,120
Speaker 1: we don't have any of those type of games this

2224
02:01:03,200 --> 02:01:06,800
Speaker 1: weekend where it's top five versus top five. I think

2225
02:01:06,800 --> 02:01:10,320
Speaker 1: there's a I'm looking quickly here. There's two ranked versus ranks,

2226
02:01:10,840 --> 02:01:15,480
Speaker 1: three ranked versus ranks this weekend, but none of them

2227
02:01:15,480 --> 02:01:18,240
Speaker 1: are within the top ten. Right, you have number eight

2228
02:01:18,240 --> 02:01:22,280
Speaker 1: Ole miss at number thirteen Oklahoma. You have number fifteen

2229
02:01:22,320 --> 02:01:26,680
Speaker 1: Missouri at number ten Vanderbilt, and you have number three

2230
02:01:26,720 --> 02:01:29,280
Speaker 1: Texas A and M at number twenty LSU.

2231
02:01:29,480 --> 02:01:30,560
Speaker 2: So there's no.

2232
02:01:32,160 --> 02:01:36,320
Speaker 1: There's no top five versus top five or any or

2233
02:01:36,320 --> 02:01:38,680
Speaker 1: two teams within the top ten facing each other. See

2234
02:01:39,360 --> 02:01:41,920
Speaker 1: and only three ranked versus ranked teams. So in theory

2235
02:01:41,960 --> 02:01:44,880
Speaker 1: and yes, we're still in conference play. Look, one of

2236
02:01:44,920 --> 02:01:48,120
Speaker 1: my the hardest thing to do is when a conference game.

2237
02:01:48,440 --> 02:01:49,840
Speaker 1: Hardest thing to do is beat a team that you

2238
02:01:49,920 --> 02:01:52,840
Speaker 1: play every year because over time you get to know them.

2239
02:01:52,840 --> 02:01:54,640
Speaker 1: Why are you know? In the NFL, one of the

2240
02:01:54,720 --> 02:01:58,720
Speaker 1: rules of betting is you know division You know, whenever

2241
02:01:58,720 --> 02:02:02,720
Speaker 1: you see divisional games and a road team and a

2242
02:02:02,800 --> 02:02:04,840
Speaker 1: road team is favorite, always take the underdog in the

2243
02:02:04,840 --> 02:02:08,640
Speaker 1: divisional game because they definitely you know, they all know

2244
02:02:08,760 --> 02:02:13,400
Speaker 1: each other, they game plan twice a year, they face

2245
02:02:13,480 --> 02:02:15,840
Speaker 1: each other a lot. It's the same thing with conference games,

2246
02:02:15,880 --> 02:02:18,000
Speaker 1: so I think, you know, I know, the SEC thinks

2247
02:02:18,040 --> 02:02:20,640
Speaker 1: it's the only conference that has tough conference games. Every

2248
02:02:20,680 --> 02:02:25,880
Speaker 1: conference has tough conference games, Okay, every single one of them.

2249
02:02:27,560 --> 02:02:31,680
Speaker 1: Miami has Stanford this week. Stanford comes to Miami after

2250
02:02:31,720 --> 02:02:33,800
Speaker 1: pulling their big upset of Florida State last week, and

2251
02:02:33,880 --> 02:02:36,200
Speaker 1: not a questionable call there. I think Florida State may

2252
02:02:36,880 --> 02:02:41,120
Speaker 1: have scored that touchdown there. But let's just say, I'd

2253
02:02:41,200 --> 02:02:43,440
Speaker 1: rather face a team after they've pulled a big upset

2254
02:02:43,520 --> 02:02:46,560
Speaker 1: than when they've lost a big game, right. I was

2255
02:02:46,640 --> 02:02:51,120
Speaker 1: nervous about or a team that has a week off,

2256
02:02:51,200 --> 02:02:53,240
Speaker 1: like Louisville had a week off and the only thing

2257
02:02:53,240 --> 02:02:58,400
Speaker 1: they cared about was game planning for Miami. I'd like

2258
02:02:58,440 --> 02:03:00,720
Speaker 1: to see Miami put a real smack down on this one.

2259
02:03:00,880 --> 02:03:06,040
Speaker 1: This is probably their biggest spread since Bathune Cookman when

2260
02:03:06,040 --> 02:03:08,840
Speaker 1: they played earlier this year. Miami needs to look like

2261
02:03:08,840 --> 02:03:11,840
Speaker 1: Miami again, and I think if they do, it will

2262
02:03:11,880 --> 02:03:14,320
Speaker 1: sort of you know, the doubters are all creeping in

2263
02:03:14,320 --> 02:03:16,600
Speaker 1: and oh, here come the Hurricanes again, blowing a game

2264
02:03:16,640 --> 02:03:19,720
Speaker 1: that they shouldn't have blown. And they had a pattern

2265
02:03:19,800 --> 02:03:23,200
Speaker 1: over the last five or six years when they'd lose one,

2266
02:03:23,280 --> 02:03:25,560
Speaker 1: it seemed to come in bunches. Suddenly they'd lose two

2267
02:03:25,560 --> 02:03:27,520
Speaker 1: out of three, or two in a row or three

2268
02:03:27,520 --> 02:03:31,640
Speaker 1: in a row. So this needs to be a clean,

2269
02:03:31,880 --> 02:03:36,520
Speaker 1: sort of palette cleanser type of game. A close game

2270
02:03:36,800 --> 02:03:39,680
Speaker 1: would have me questioning whether the goals that I have

2271
02:03:39,800 --> 02:03:41,720
Speaker 1: for this team for the end of the year, whether

2272
02:03:41,720 --> 02:03:44,720
Speaker 1: those are reachable or not, because, unfortunately, whether it's fair

2273
02:03:44,800 --> 02:03:48,560
Speaker 1: or not, two loss acc teams are probably not going

2274
02:03:48,600 --> 02:03:51,920
Speaker 1: to get invited to the playoff, so they have to

2275
02:03:52,000 --> 02:03:56,400
Speaker 1: keep it to one loss. So margin of victory matters

2276
02:03:56,440 --> 02:03:59,680
Speaker 1: to me on this one, so that will be of interest.

2277
02:03:59,680 --> 02:04:03,720
Speaker 1: It's a night game, and Miami's a I always feel

2278
02:04:03,720 --> 02:04:06,240
Speaker 1: better when Miami's playing a night game on a Saturday.

2279
02:04:06,560 --> 02:04:08,400
Speaker 1: I never feel as good if Mimmy's playing a night

2280
02:04:08,400 --> 02:04:13,160
Speaker 1: game on a Thursday or a Friday. The other intriguing

2281
02:04:13,320 --> 02:04:16,200
Speaker 1: you know the other games I'll be watching with intrigue

2282
02:04:16,240 --> 02:04:18,040
Speaker 1: this week UCLA at Indiana.

2283
02:04:18,880 --> 02:04:21,040
Speaker 2: Who is UCLA? I know?

2284
02:04:21,960 --> 02:04:26,240
Speaker 1: Kirk google me. Signetti said that he considers UCLA a

2285
02:04:26,280 --> 02:04:28,400
Speaker 1: three and oh team. They're facing an undefeated team, and

2286
02:04:28,440 --> 02:04:31,120
Speaker 1: since they've gotten the new coaching regime, they are undefeated.

2287
02:04:33,280 --> 02:04:36,880
Speaker 1: He's obviously trying to get the attention of his own team.

2288
02:04:37,600 --> 02:04:41,400
Speaker 2: We're going to find out a lot. I am stunned.

2289
02:04:41,240 --> 02:04:45,920
Speaker 1: That this is a more than nearly a four touchdown spread.

2290
02:04:46,080 --> 02:04:49,480
Speaker 1: This is the most respect Indiana has ever gotten. I

2291
02:04:49,520 --> 02:04:52,919
Speaker 1: think when it comes to both from gamblers and the polsters,

2292
02:04:53,000 --> 02:04:58,920
Speaker 1: right highest ranking the gambler and me would say, hm,

2293
02:04:59,080 --> 02:05:01,800
Speaker 1: this is this is a this is a cell high

2294
02:05:01,800 --> 02:05:06,560
Speaker 1: spot on Indiana, right. But I'm not sure what to

2295
02:05:06,600 --> 02:05:11,919
Speaker 1: make of UCLA. And one thing we've learned about Indiana

2296
02:05:12,280 --> 02:05:16,040
Speaker 1: is they seem to always be prepared. And there's now

2297
02:05:16,120 --> 02:05:19,600
Speaker 1: three weeks of this new type of offense, these new

2298
02:05:19,800 --> 02:05:23,000
Speaker 1: game plans that UCLA has put together, and the longer

2299
02:05:23,000 --> 02:05:29,320
Speaker 1: that's on film, perhaps mister Signetti and his staffer is

2300
02:05:29,360 --> 02:05:32,000
Speaker 1: going to find find a way to take advantage of it.

2301
02:05:32,040 --> 02:05:37,040
Speaker 1: So I'll just simply say, I'm just very right. We

2302
02:05:37,120 --> 02:05:39,680
Speaker 1: all want to know. We're gonna learn how good both

2303
02:05:39,720 --> 02:05:44,200
Speaker 1: teams are on this one. Is UCLA fully fully back

2304
02:05:44,440 --> 02:05:47,040
Speaker 1: or you know, has this been a bit of a

2305
02:05:47,080 --> 02:05:50,960
Speaker 1: mirage and they just caught some teams napping Indiana won't

2306
02:05:51,000 --> 02:05:53,320
Speaker 1: be napping on this one, and we're gonna find out

2307
02:05:53,360 --> 02:05:57,760
Speaker 1: how Indiana handles handles praise. You know, I was last

2308
02:05:57,760 --> 02:06:00,200
Speaker 1: week wasn't the best of tests. It was Michigan's eight

2309
02:06:00,240 --> 02:06:03,080
Speaker 1: and something seems to be wrong with Michigan State at

2310
02:06:03,080 --> 02:06:06,200
Speaker 1: the moment, So we'll find out here. I still think

2311
02:06:06,680 --> 02:06:10,560
Speaker 1: we're more likely to see no undefeated playoff teams than

2312
02:06:10,640 --> 02:06:13,120
Speaker 1: having at least one or two. Put it this way,

2313
02:06:13,120 --> 02:06:14,760
Speaker 1: I think if we have an undefated playoff team, it's

2314
02:06:14,760 --> 02:06:18,440
Speaker 1: only one. But I'm still gonna bet on zero on

2315
02:06:18,480 --> 02:06:24,440
Speaker 1: that front. Ol Miss, Oklahoma, this is a playoff elimination game.

2316
02:06:26,760 --> 02:06:29,200
Speaker 1: My son said something during the old Miss Georgia game,

2317
02:06:29,200 --> 02:06:32,840
Speaker 1: and he goes, doesn't Ole Miss. This is what is observation.

2318
02:06:33,000 --> 02:06:35,200
Speaker 1: It was one of those you know sometimes you know

2319
02:06:35,240 --> 02:06:37,800
Speaker 1: your kids say stuff. You're like, yeah, that is pretty

2320
02:06:37,800 --> 02:06:40,600
Speaker 1: obviously he goes, doesn't. Lane Kiffin always lose these games, meaning,

2321
02:06:40,680 --> 02:06:44,680
Speaker 1: you know, whenever he's it seems like when he's he

2322
02:06:44,720 --> 02:06:47,160
Speaker 1: doesn't ever win that big game you gotta win. He'll

2323
02:06:47,160 --> 02:06:49,560
Speaker 1: pull an upset, but can he do two or three

2324
02:06:49,600 --> 02:06:54,440
Speaker 1: of them? Right? This is just the type of game

2325
02:06:54,480 --> 02:07:00,760
Speaker 1: he blows and so you know what's interesting is i'd beenables.

2326
02:07:02,880 --> 02:07:04,480
Speaker 1: I don't think he I think he's got a shorter

2327
02:07:04,600 --> 02:07:06,920
Speaker 1: leash maybe than he should, but I think he does.

2328
02:07:08,760 --> 02:07:11,800
Speaker 1: They lose this one, and you could see, you know,

2329
02:07:11,840 --> 02:07:13,880
Speaker 1: their schedule is not easy the rest of the way.

2330
02:07:13,920 --> 02:07:16,120
Speaker 1: You could see suddenly, you know what if they lose

2331
02:07:16,120 --> 02:07:18,320
Speaker 1: three or four games this season. Right at first, they

2332
02:07:18,360 --> 02:07:19,600
Speaker 1: looked like they were going to be one of.

2333
02:07:19,600 --> 02:07:21,320
Speaker 2: The top SEC teams.

2334
02:07:22,520 --> 02:07:25,040
Speaker 1: If they are indeed a top SEC team, then they

2335
02:07:25,040 --> 02:07:27,600
Speaker 1: need to win this game. But this is you know,

2336
02:07:27,760 --> 02:07:30,680
Speaker 1: as far as playoff implications, I think it's very much

2337
02:07:31,200 --> 02:07:34,280
Speaker 1: oh you and O miss. This is an elimination game

2338
02:07:35,040 --> 02:07:42,360
Speaker 1: for them. South Florida Memphis. Speaking of elimination games, the

2339
02:07:42,400 --> 02:07:45,120
Speaker 1: winner of this game is probably the front runner for

2340
02:07:45,160 --> 02:07:49,360
Speaker 1: the group of five slot in the playoff. South Florida

2341
02:07:49,440 --> 02:07:52,480
Speaker 1: so smoked North Texas that my assumption is that they'll

2342
02:07:53,320 --> 02:07:56,280
Speaker 1: h that they're going to beat Memphis as well. Somehow

2343
02:07:56,320 --> 02:07:59,440
Speaker 1: Memphis lost to UAB. I guess it's the new coach

2344
02:07:59,480 --> 02:08:02,600
Speaker 1: bounce that happened with the Trent Dilfer firing a couple

2345
02:08:02,680 --> 02:08:05,200
Speaker 1: weeks earlier that got you at U A b off

2346
02:08:05,200 --> 02:08:09,240
Speaker 1: the mat that was uh it's about his head scratching

2347
02:08:09,960 --> 02:08:13,160
Speaker 1: of a of a of an outcome that we've seen.

2348
02:08:15,680 --> 02:08:17,760
Speaker 1: But I'm like looking at this line of four and

2349
02:08:17,800 --> 02:08:19,560
Speaker 1: a half and I'm staring at it, and I know

2350
02:08:19,680 --> 02:08:23,880
Speaker 1: Memphis is hosting, and I'm wondering, really, isn't South South

2351
02:08:23,880 --> 02:08:27,040
Speaker 1: Florida has played a tougher schedule than most of the

2352
02:08:27,040 --> 02:08:31,960
Speaker 1: Big Ten, right so, I you know, and probably half

2353
02:08:32,000 --> 02:08:35,120
Speaker 1: of the Accuh. They certainly have played a tougher schedule

2354
02:08:35,160 --> 02:08:37,240
Speaker 1: that Georgia Tech has, right, Georgia Tech has got the

2355
02:08:37,240 --> 02:08:38,760
Speaker 1: easy schedule this year in the ACC.

2356
02:08:41,360 --> 02:08:41,960
Speaker 2: I'll be creus.

2357
02:08:42,000 --> 02:08:44,840
Speaker 1: I I know South we might be buying you know,

2358
02:08:44,880 --> 02:08:46,800
Speaker 1: buying high here. But why do I think South Florida

2359
02:08:46,840 --> 02:08:49,440
Speaker 1: is going to blow out Memphis? Uh? In this one?

2360
02:08:49,800 --> 02:08:52,680
Speaker 1: And then the other potential elimination game playoff wise is

2361
02:08:52,680 --> 02:08:53,680
Speaker 1: Missouri Vanderbilt?

2362
02:08:55,000 --> 02:08:55,400
Speaker 2: Where now?

2363
02:08:55,440 --> 02:08:59,360
Speaker 1: So Vanderbilt just Vanderbilt being a favorite in SEC games?

2364
02:08:59,400 --> 02:09:03,360
Speaker 1: Now this is because hey, normal, back to back weeks ranked,

2365
02:09:03,840 --> 02:09:07,240
Speaker 1: back to back weeks, favored over other SEC opponents. I mean,

2366
02:09:07,280 --> 02:09:10,160
Speaker 1: you know, up is down, cats and dogs living together,

2367
02:09:10,320 --> 02:09:15,760
Speaker 1: you know, whatever it is here we are. I've not

2368
02:09:16,040 --> 02:09:20,400
Speaker 1: been impressed with Missouri all year Missouri's always and has

2369
02:09:20,440 --> 02:09:22,040
Speaker 1: been that way the last couple of years. You look

2370
02:09:22,080 --> 02:09:23,680
Speaker 1: and they're like, they always have a pretty good record

2371
02:09:23,760 --> 02:09:26,080
Speaker 1: nine and three, eight and four, ten and two. My

2372
02:09:26,160 --> 02:09:28,880
Speaker 1: apologies to my friend Major Garrett, who is might be

2373
02:09:28,920 --> 02:09:32,640
Speaker 1: the biggest Missouri football fan. I know I have I

2374
02:09:32,680 --> 02:09:35,280
Speaker 1: have an ant and who went to Missou. But sorry,

2375
02:09:36,840 --> 02:09:39,120
Speaker 1: I think my buddy Major Garrett is is a bigger

2376
02:09:39,120 --> 02:09:42,600
Speaker 1: football fan on that front than you are, Aunt Janet.

2377
02:09:43,200 --> 02:09:46,120
Speaker 2: But I tease, they just.

2378
02:09:46,080 --> 02:09:49,080
Speaker 1: Don't look like a playoff team to me, and weirdly

2379
02:09:49,200 --> 02:09:49,920
Speaker 1: Vanderbilt does.

2380
02:09:50,000 --> 02:09:50,120
Speaker 2: Right.

2381
02:09:50,280 --> 02:09:52,320
Speaker 1: Are you really going to bet against Povey in a game?

2382
02:09:52,400 --> 02:09:56,560
Speaker 1: This is just a you know, that's one the other

2383
02:09:57,200 --> 02:09:58,920
Speaker 1: there's a few other games to keep an eye on.

2384
02:09:59,040 --> 02:10:02,240
Speaker 1: B YU At Iowa State. Iowa State's not look great

2385
02:10:02,240 --> 02:10:04,880
Speaker 1: all year, but just when you think Iowa State and

2386
02:10:05,040 --> 02:10:07,160
Speaker 1: they're no good, Matt Campbell finds a way and there's

2387
02:10:07,160 --> 02:10:09,160
Speaker 1: something by use one of the undefeateds. You're like, really,

2388
02:10:09,200 --> 02:10:12,000
Speaker 1: they're still undefeated and they just got through the Holy

2389
02:10:12,080 --> 02:10:15,640
Speaker 1: War against Utah last week. If they drop a game

2390
02:10:15,680 --> 02:10:18,000
Speaker 1: before the big twelfth title game, this is the game

2391
02:10:18,040 --> 02:10:20,480
Speaker 1: they drop, we're gonna learn. I'm going to learn a

2392
02:10:20,520 --> 02:10:23,560
Speaker 1: lot about how good BYU really is because it's you know,

2393
02:10:23,600 --> 02:10:26,960
Speaker 1: the rivalry game against Utah is everything. What kind of

2394
02:10:26,960 --> 02:10:30,280
Speaker 1: hangover do they have going at again one of the

2395
02:10:30,400 --> 02:10:32,920
Speaker 1: toughest you know, one of the better home fields that

2396
02:10:32,960 --> 02:10:37,240
Speaker 1: exists in the Big twelve is in uh is in

2397
02:10:37,360 --> 02:10:42,120
Speaker 1: Aims there for for the Iowa State Cyclones. After that,

2398
02:10:43,880 --> 02:10:47,680
Speaker 1: Texas Mississippi State. Do we do we fully bury Texas

2399
02:10:47,680 --> 02:10:50,320
Speaker 1: if mississ If the cow Bells win this one, because

2400
02:10:50,360 --> 02:10:54,040
Speaker 1: this is in Stark Vegas, which means we'll see how

2401
02:10:54,160 --> 02:10:57,680
Speaker 1: Arch handles the cow Bells on that front, and then

2402
02:10:58,240 --> 02:11:03,000
Speaker 1: the other the other one that'll be could also be

2403
02:11:04,720 --> 02:11:08,920
Speaker 1: Brian Kelly's elimination game is the Texas A and M

2404
02:11:08,960 --> 02:11:11,720
Speaker 1: at LSU A and M I think looks like they're

2405
02:11:11,760 --> 02:11:15,000
Speaker 1: going to be one of the SEC representatives, right they have,

2406
02:11:15,240 --> 02:11:18,760
Speaker 1: They're still undefeated. They've got margin for error here. They

2407
02:11:18,800 --> 02:11:22,440
Speaker 1: can lose and keep going. They've got some good wins.

2408
02:11:22,440 --> 02:11:24,920
Speaker 1: They got the good out of out of conference win

2409
02:11:24,960 --> 02:11:30,280
Speaker 1: against Notre Dame. But boy, this is a this is

2410
02:11:30,280 --> 02:11:33,160
Speaker 1: one of those where if LSU doesn't win this one,

2411
02:11:34,400 --> 02:11:39,400
Speaker 1: remember LSU has not fired one coach who had previously

2412
02:11:39,440 --> 02:11:42,440
Speaker 1: won a national title. LSU's fired two coaches that have

2413
02:11:42,480 --> 02:11:46,080
Speaker 1: won national titles, Les Miles and my man ed Orgery

2414
02:11:46,720 --> 02:11:47,400
Speaker 1: ed Oljeron.

2415
02:11:47,560 --> 02:11:48,640
Speaker 2: I love me some ed Orgeron.

2416
02:11:48,800 --> 02:11:51,520
Speaker 5: He's also a Universy Miami guy, so I love Edgeorge

2417
02:11:51,600 --> 02:11:55,360
Speaker 5: Ron Edgeorge Run. This is my best Edgeorge Run impersonation.

2418
02:11:56,360 --> 02:11:59,840
Speaker 5: I'm curious what you guys think of it, but in

2419
02:12:00,720 --> 02:12:06,240
Speaker 5: all semi seriousness here, I do think Brian Kelly, this

2420
02:12:06,280 --> 02:12:09,960
Speaker 5: is one of those where you're wondering would Serve would

2421
02:12:09,960 --> 02:12:13,720
Speaker 5: he survive the weekend if he loses by double digits

2422
02:12:13,760 --> 02:12:17,600
Speaker 5: to Texas A and M. Just something to ponder there.

2423
02:12:17,640 --> 02:12:22,080
Speaker 1: So, look, the slate doesn't look great, right, but as

2424
02:12:22,160 --> 02:12:25,040
Speaker 1: any college football fan will tell you, it is the

2425
02:12:25,080 --> 02:12:29,280
Speaker 1: weeks that you're not expecting the craziness is when the

2426
02:12:29,320 --> 02:12:33,480
Speaker 1: craziness hits, you know. So I may have previewed those games,

2427
02:12:33,480 --> 02:12:37,960
Speaker 1: but when Syracuse knocks off Georgia Tech, or when South

2428
02:12:38,000 --> 02:12:40,920
Speaker 1: Carolina is lining up for the game winning field goal

2429
02:12:40,960 --> 02:12:44,280
Speaker 1: over Alabama, that's when you'll know this is one crazy

2430
02:12:44,400 --> 02:12:46,640
Speaker 1: ass weekend of college football. I'm not making either of

2431
02:12:46,680 --> 02:12:49,480
Speaker 1: those predictions, but the point is that's what kind of

2432
02:12:49,520 --> 02:12:54,800
Speaker 1: slated is this weekend where something weird is likely to happen. Obviously,

2433
02:12:54,840 --> 02:12:57,720
Speaker 1: being a Miami guy, I do not want the something

2434
02:12:57,760 --> 02:13:01,240
Speaker 1: weird to be happening at hard Rock Stadium in Miami Gardens, Florida,

2435
02:13:01,560 --> 02:13:06,120
Speaker 1: at seven pm on Saturday night. So with that, I

2436
02:13:06,120 --> 02:13:08,440
Speaker 1: hope you have an excellent weekend. I hope if you

2437
02:13:08,640 --> 02:13:12,520
Speaker 1: are looking for distractions from the mess that is our democracy,

2438
02:13:12,880 --> 02:13:16,280
Speaker 1: you find those distractions. If you have time with family,

2439
02:13:16,400 --> 02:13:19,920
Speaker 1: enjoy that and I'll see in about ninety six hours

2440
02:13:20,000 --> 02:13:20,960
Speaker 1: until I upload again.