1 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. 3 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: You can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven 4 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel from Marino Bass layers to technical outerwear 5 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: for every hunt. First like go farther, stay longer. This 6 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: is uh, this is on your Instagram, Johnnie, I haven't 7 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: posted it yet. You fix it too, Yeah, I was. 8 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: I was thinking about it. I will at some point 9 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: in the next week, so if listeners were to go 10 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: to your thing, they would find it. Yeah, Yanni, really, 11 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: Yanni rehabilitated a did you tell me what you did? Yanni? 12 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: You rehabilitated. It's a Reinhardt target I gotta use are 13 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: our buddy Ben O'Brien gave it to me and uh, 14 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: just after it was in pretty good shape when he 15 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: gave it to me, but after explain Yeah, it's say 16 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: three three dimensional um life size mule deer target. That's 17 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: not life size. It is really. Oh yeah, I'm telling 18 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: you it is. I mean it's that thing is hard 19 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: to carry if you carry the body and the head 20 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: and the piece of the antlers are attached to his 21 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,479 Speaker 1: ear forehead chunk. It's a lot to carry. It's it's 22 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: a big it doesn't this picture makes it look out 23 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: of scale anyways, close to life size mule deer three 24 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: D target for shooting. You just changed it, yeah, to 25 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: make you happy. So I want to hear about it 26 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: here in five more minutes. If you say, well, it's 27 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: actually only six which is a mule deer is high. Um. Anyways, 28 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: after a couple four years of sitting out in the 29 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: Montana sun and weather, at the foam was sorted certaining 30 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: to degrade. So I called up Ryan Hart and she said, oh, yeah, 31 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: no problem. This is what you do to bring it 32 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: back to life. Take a can of spray paint whatever 33 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: color you want to color your three D target, and uh, 34 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: you know, repaint it and then take some Thompson's deck 35 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: ceiling like water ceiling, paint that over it. And you 36 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: should be good to go and do that. You know, 37 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: when you see it wearing off, and if you know, 38 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: you know the water is not beating on it anymore. 39 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: And uh so I went and got to think a 40 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: can of khaki was the closest I could get to 41 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: like the tan colored of a mule deer's body. Already 42 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: had some black and white, and then I got a 43 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: dark walnut because I wanted to as I was he 44 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: I don't know what ran Hart was thinking, but when 45 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: I got this buck and had these, the antlers are like, 46 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 1: I'm guessing they model them after because they're giant. Yeah, 47 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: it looks like one of the it looks like one 48 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: of those deer that who's that ran looks like one 49 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: of those dear Randy. Yeah yeah, yeah, type in Randy 50 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: Almer mule deer. And then this is what this target 51 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: is modeled after. Anyways, they're very yellow the antlers, and 52 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 1: I didn't feel like they were very realistic, so I 53 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: went to repaint those because I wanted to protect those two. 54 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: I thought, you know, it would be kind of fun 55 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: to turn him and turn him into the mythical timber 56 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: buck that Stephen and I heard about when we were 57 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 1: hunting Colorado together. Dark antler timber buck. Yeah yeah, I 58 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: get buck fever looking at you and he's target. Yeah, no, 59 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: he's he's intimidating. Um here, friends, it is a high class. 60 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: We're camping last weekend and I had my I had 61 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: a three D target off in the meadow, you know, 62 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: and I mean, there must have been ten times I 63 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: come around the corner and kind I couldn't get used 64 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: to that. It was quite the antlers they are. How 65 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: long did that take you? Oh, I don't know. As 66 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: long as it takes the spray Holcanus spray paint. It's pretty, 67 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: it's pretty detailed. So we got a letter. We got 68 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: a letter in. Oh, I'm gonna do it. Oh, I'm 69 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: gonna introduce our guests, Fred Gould, Fred, Okay, here's how 70 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: this goes. People will remember, people will remember a long 71 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,679 Speaker 1: time ago. If you've been, if you follow the show closely, 72 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: U Karin, our beloved producer, had one day it was 73 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: kind of spouting off about that fair Phil. Yeah, that's 74 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 1: a great way to put it. Stopping spouting off. Karin 75 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: was spouting off about GMOs genetically modified organism. It was 76 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: well intentioned spouting off. She wasn't spouting off. She was 77 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: just I don't know what she's doing. God's talking about 78 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: GMO of like taking like arctic char and mixing it 79 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: up with strawberries. I don't know. And then and then 80 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: crackted herself a week later, and then corrected herself a 81 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: week later. But the emails kept coming. The emails kept coming, 82 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: and I said, well, Crim, why don't you go track 83 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: down a GMO expert. He's here now, used to live 84 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: in a Van University distinguished professor in the Department of 85 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: Entomology that's studying bugs and plant pathology at North Carolina 86 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: State University and rally right role, I though they're real 87 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: particularly and the co director of the Genetic Engineering and 88 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: Society Center. You got it. Um, once we get down 89 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: with our up top stuff getting an interview, do you 90 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: do you have any idea what we're talking about with 91 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: the strawberries and the art at char Yeah, you know, phenomenal, 92 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 1: genuine vegetarian, used to live in a Van. Self described 93 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: former hippie. Krim sent me an article back, did you 94 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: did you quit being a hippie? I guess I did, 95 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: but like aged out. Um, yeah, that's gonna be a 96 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: great conversation. Also, the other thing that inspired uh that 97 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: the inspired justus want to have a conversation about GMOs. 98 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: And we'll get to this is it's a very popular 99 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: thing to have like a shirt or whatever it has 100 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: a deer on it, like a white tailed deer. Who 101 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: and white tailed deer? I love people, I mean they like. 102 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: They like edge habitats, they like agricultural landscapes, they like 103 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: disturbed landscapes. They like areas where the human presence uh 104 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: decreases the predator load. Right, they like crows, Canada geese, 105 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: what else, white tailed deer, magpies, magpies, just things that 106 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: are sort of the winners of the anthrop a scene. Dogs, dogs, 107 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: Increasingly coyotes are finding like fuge from persecution in urban 108 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: in the sort of urban suburban landscape. I feel like 109 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: increasingly a lot of more animals, especially predators. Yeah, they're 110 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, these people aren't that bad. 111 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: You're gonna learn how to deal with them. Um. Anyways, 112 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: people like to have a shirt or whatever, stickers and 113 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: stuff they have a deer on it and it'll say 114 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: like organic, or they'll have they'll talk about mallard ducks 115 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: being organic. And we've we'll ask you about this, we've 116 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: talked about increasingly. UM. I would say that if you're 117 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: eating a mallard duck in North America in the lower 118 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: forty eight, probably not man, probably not right right, They 119 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: are all eaten corn out of a GMO field somewhere, 120 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: soybeans like probably not organic. They probably wouldn't be able 121 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: to be certified organic. I don't think so that you probably, 122 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, you know what, I don't have an 123 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: answer for that. I'm not sure. I'm not sure how 124 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: how they would certify something like that. But it's a 125 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: high The likelihood is that if you're gonna shoot it yourself, 126 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: nobody's going to care. Yeah, but I mean meaning that 127 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: if he's migrating through like if he's migrating from Canada 128 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: to coastal Louisiana, UM, and it's utilizing air cultural fields like, 129 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: it has a very high lighthood of stumbling into some 130 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: kind of grain. Well, we need to get to all 131 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: of this because it's really kind of curious. And I 132 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: mentioned to you that on the US reserves for a 133 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: long time you weren't able to grow genetically engineered crops. 134 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: So if you shoot and a word of four reserve, 135 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: right it was, it would have been non GMO. So 136 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: that's that rule is has been changed and it's sort 137 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: of filtering down, but it probably will change. Right So 138 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: right now, if you want to get your non GMO ducks, 139 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: you know, before we do our some of other stuff 140 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: you got, we gotta talk about these jars here of 141 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: bison garam darm. How do you pronounce that? I have 142 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: no idea. That's a good research project. Someone find out 143 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: how to pronounce that, so we don't sound stupid. You 144 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: mind doing that film? Uh tell real quick? Talk about 145 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: those the because you live in North Carolina, um, and 146 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: you're talking about the the least corn land. Explain that. Yeah, 147 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: So it's an interesting thing because you know, I man, 148 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 1: you have all these reserves, right, and there's a lot 149 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: of water, but there's I have a lot of land 150 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: there and they want to have food for the ducks 151 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: you know that migrate there. And what they've done is 152 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: they allow farmers to grow corn on that land, right, 153 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: and then they're allowed to harvest most of it, but 154 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: they have to leave some of it behind, so they're 155 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: not paying rent on the land like they would with 156 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 1: a typical landowner. Right. It's kind of funny cause it 157 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: winds up sounding like, um, it's reminiscent of the sharecropper system. Well, 158 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: it is exactly, I mean, and they leave that amount 159 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 1: standing and that's for the waterfowl. But you know, there's 160 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: all of course, you know, given it it's a federal program, 161 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: they have regulations and they don't want certain pesticides right 162 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: that would hurt the aquatic animals and and so on. 163 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: So they have regulations on what you're allowed to spray. 164 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: And you know, there are a lot of good reasons 165 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: for for having some of those regulations, but some of 166 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: the others, you know, have sort of seeped in. And 167 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: one of those was about using genetically engineered corn and 168 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: so that was prohibited. So that has been prohibited. So 169 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: you know, it's a problem for the farmers because some 170 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: of the weed problems, for example, are kind of really 171 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: tough on those refuges. So you know, they need to 172 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: make a certain amount of profit off that amount that 173 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 1: they're able to harvest. So you know, it gets a 174 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: little bit tricky, but they have things worked out, but 175 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: it will be The farmers would love it if those 176 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: regulations were changed. And so during the Trump administration, they 177 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: lifted the regulation on they lifted the prohibition, they lifted 178 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: that The argument, you know what the argument for the 179 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: foreign against arguments. You know, I wish I could give 180 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: you all the rational but I don't think this was 181 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: just a rational kind of thing. I think it was 182 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: probably a lot political. But there is some some kind 183 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: of rationale because indeed a lot of the crops that 184 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: are genetically engineered genetically engineered for herbicide tolerance, right, so 185 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 1: if you have herbicide tolerance, you can spray more herbicides 186 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: on that. So if there if it's a herbicide that's 187 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: not allowed or something like that, that's an issue. But 188 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: I think more of it was really just that idea 189 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: of of natural and I thought we could get to 190 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: that because I think more of the GMO thing has 191 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: to do with natural versus this whole thing about safety. 192 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: And I think it's really useful, you know, especially with 193 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: your guys. You know, it's it's really interesting to talk 194 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 1: about that. But all I would say is that it 195 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: will be great for the farmers, you know, if that changes. 196 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to harm the refuges, but 197 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: duck hunter and duck but presumably there will be more 198 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: duck food. I don't think there'll be a big change 199 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: in it. But I think you should tell all your 200 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: listeners to will lobby against relaxing that law so that 201 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: they can continue to get organic ducks. This is a 202 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: called action. Yeah, this is a call to action. That's bold. 203 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: Um you have are you protected in your job. You 204 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: talked about, so this is a difference between having a 205 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: federal and so you have. I thought you're gonna ask 206 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: me if I'm protected from losing my job when I 207 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: say things you have? Do you have? What the words 208 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: escaping me? When you get immunity from prosecution? What you want? 209 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: That's great. You're gonna get the straight story, right, Okay? 210 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: Fred hank Ty, you got anything to add in? Add in? 211 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: But we have. I didn't know this existed. I got 212 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: a package in the mail from Lasiano Culinary School in 213 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: the Latian Islands or in Michigan's Upper Peninsula, and the 214 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: guy someone the director of the culinary school there, director 215 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: and instructor of culinary arts at Lake Superior State University. 216 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: I didn't know they had that program I went to that. 217 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: I'm not quite a lung because I only did a 218 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: semester there. I went to three schools before I finished, 219 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: like regular college, Skeeing Community College, Lake Superior State University, 220 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: Grand Valley State University. I did one semester at Lake 221 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: State and had no idea that this exists. That was 222 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: one of your brothers. They he runs the program there. 223 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: He sent me a beautifully typed letter. And they've been 224 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: experimenting with various forms of fermentation, and they have a 225 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: they've been making koji mold. But he took this is 226 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: this jar in front of you, honest, which looks like 227 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: a jar of If I handed that to you with 228 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: no label, what would you think you were looking at? 229 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: Oh boy, I mean, it's like the color of molasses. 230 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: But it just it's it's just liquid. Yeah, so sauce, 231 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: soy sauce, balsamic vinegar, fish sauce. Maybe. So they've been 232 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: they've been dicking around with kogi mold, putting it on 233 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: various forms of grain. Okay, the mold itself is sweet 234 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: and fruity. They've used it for many things, including toasting 235 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: it for salads, making risotto, lacto fermenting it which I 236 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: don't know about, making bread pudding. Koji mold is also 237 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: an important greenia for many of the Asian pantry staples, 238 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: such as here I'm in more familiar territory mi so 239 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: fish sauce show you, or soy sauce and saki. They 240 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: were making it with coffee. Then they took a freshly 241 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: slaughtered and ground bison meat. So the meat from a freshly. 242 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: I'm trying to say ground bison meat. And they put 243 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: the cog on there which is grown on barley. And 244 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: they put the bison meat, kogi, salt and water, place 245 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: it in a rice cooker set to warm, and they 246 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: skimmed it and stirred it for ten weeks, then strained 247 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: out the solids, which they then dehydrated and made a 248 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: bison spice with and jarred it for use. My goodness, 249 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: I feel like maybe we should share one of these 250 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: an auction one of them in the auction House Oddities 251 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: or do you want your own jar? We have two jars. No, 252 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: we could share. We could share a jar. Have you 253 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: cracked that open yet? No? Man, just go open the 254 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: box right now. This is like, this isn't even in 255 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: the document. I challenge you to find this in the 256 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: document and what we're are in what are It's not 257 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: in there? Phil, Well, i'll see. Let me save you 258 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: the time. It's not in there. That's how freshness is. 259 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: H's open a damn thing up? Now? Well? Yeah, I 260 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: think we should have a smell and maybe it takes. 261 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: I want to save a jar for ther House Oddities 262 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: to raise money for our access initiatives. Oh, yeah, you 263 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: don't even have to put your nose to it. Here's 264 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: what he says. He says, We've been marinating our bison 265 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: backstrap steaks. This is probably making you want to make 266 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: Fred friends over there, licking his lips. Yeah, we've been 267 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: marinating our bison backstrap steaks in it for a few 268 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: days before we sue, feed and butter base them. It 269 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: does a really nice job of breaking down the muscle 270 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: fibers in the steak and tenderizing it. We also use 271 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: the sauce as the umami component in a saracho honey 272 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: glaze for sashimi salmon. Can anyone hear anybody here? Fred, 273 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: you might be Can anybody in Layman's terms, explain O Mommy, Yeah, 274 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: let's hear it. Phil tell him it's so it's so 275 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: easy Phil to do it. I was gonna say, it's 276 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: one of those things like the meat. It's the meat sensation. 277 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: It's it's like that Supreme Court justice who was asked 278 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 1: to define porn. He just said, I just I know 279 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: it when I see it. I feel like that's you, mommy, 280 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: you know when you taste it. I can't describe it. 281 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 1: Don't ask me. Well, this sauce. Definitely is ou Mommy. 282 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: I looked it up at Mariam Webster. I just want 283 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: to drink that, like put a little bob or something 284 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: in there. Miriam Webster says. It's the taste sensation that 285 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: is produced by several amino acids and nucleotides such as 286 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: glutamate and aspirate, and has a rich or meaty flavor. 287 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: So you're right, characteristic of cheese, cooked meat, mushrooms, soy 288 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: and ripe tomatoes, very very prevalent in Asian cooking. I 289 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: feel like they're always talking about, mommy, have you found 290 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: out how to pronounce what we're sitting on right now? 291 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: I looked it up. I got I got two pronunciations 292 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: gear room and ga room. But I think the biggest 293 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: things that that you as an oo sound gar room, 294 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: Like mommy, there you go. Um, So we're gonna put 295 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 1: a jar of this. Someone's gonna tell us there's like 296 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: some kind of legal problem with this. Yeah, That's the 297 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: only thing I was thinking is you know, you can't 298 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: auction off food? Why not? I don't know that's what, 299 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: but I was thinking there might be a legal issue 300 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: with it homemade, you know, not f d A U S. 301 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: D A Inspects blah blah blah. I'm gonna I try. 302 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: I try to. I try to put in my used 303 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: T shirts with the essence of Yanni because I know 304 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: that some folks like those T shirts. Steve, you know, 305 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: they shot me down. Why. They didn't really give an answer. 306 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: They just said, I think that's too much. It's like 307 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: like like Ralph Nader works here now or something. Uh, 308 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna find out a way because I'm also planning 309 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: on auction off my big court jar of python oil 310 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: the auction house. Oddity's real quick is is we're starting 311 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: an auction house and it will all fund access, like 312 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: like we did the Shiloh Pon. We kicked in money 313 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: to buy Shilo Pond and Maine to turn it into 314 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: public land. Um, we just raised a bunch of money 315 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 1: for UH to support state state level access initiatives like 316 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: state level private land, you know, public hunter private land. 317 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: What's the word I'm looking for hunting access? Yeah, issues, um, 318 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: other projects. So we're starting to sing in the first 319 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,919 Speaker 1: thing when we launched the auction house is it's all 320 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: going to be stuff like gear used on season ten 321 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: of our our Netflix show Mediator, like actually used both 322 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: my binal harnesses from that season, my backpack from that season. 323 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: We got one of Clay's guns in that season hopefully 324 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: the Raccoon hide. All that kind of stuff tanned and 325 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: then we've got paintings, We got crazy stuff. I tell 326 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: you that I reached out to our buddy Luke Colmbs 327 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: and he's going to chip in for the auction house audit. No, 328 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: but I meant you and forgot. Yeah, he's in North Carolina. 329 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: Do you want to hear that? Do you want to 330 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: hear the country singer your boys coming in big? What 331 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: are you talking about? Luke's coming in big for the 332 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: House of Oddities? Is he donating that tour bus? Okay, 333 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: not that big, but a signed guitar that he's played 334 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 1: on stage with your kids, along with T shirts from 335 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: the tour Signed man. It was one text and he 336 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 1: came back with I am so in here you go 337 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: my favorite from that episode that we film a loop 338 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 1: which is coming out with September. I was explaining him. 339 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 1: I was explaining to Luke how I think pronghorn when 340 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 1: you smell them like their fur, their hair, I think 341 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: it smells like fried corn chips. It really does. And 342 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: I told him, I said, when you smell that thing's 343 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: gonna smell like freedo corn chips. And he said, we'll 344 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: bust out the bean dud. Uh oh. Two more promo 345 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: things we gotta do. So on a previous episode of 346 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: the show, we played of our of our random house 347 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: audio original, Meat Eater's Close Calls No camp Fire Stories 348 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: right meters camp Fire Stories Close Calls, which I should 349 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,239 Speaker 1: point out is on its second month on the New 350 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: York Times bestseller list. Congratulations for audio originals. We're doing more, like, 351 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: we're doing more. Do we get that stamp as a 352 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: company or does that count as like under your sort 353 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 1: of list of author Uh. I would think it would 354 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 1: be where the company would claim it. Nice. Anyways, we're 355 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: doing more of those, and so we're looking for your stories. 356 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: UM's so camp fire stories. So if you if you're 357 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: familiar with the Campfire Stories and you have this camp 358 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: Fire Stories audio original Meat Eaters camp Fire Stories close Calls, 359 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: and you're like, holy ship, those boys should know about X. 360 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: Send that to you camp Fire Stories at the meat 361 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: Eater dot com. Um. Savannah, my beloved partner that work 362 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: on all this with and Brody, Savannah was saying, if 363 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: you want, you can give shout outs to folks who 364 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 1: sent in their dad's stories and tell them we want more. 365 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: She said, we have an overwhelming number from veterans, like 366 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: she's glad we have so many stories from veterans, and 367 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: a lot of stories about people's dads. And she said, uh, 368 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: the old sweet dads give me life. And she said, 369 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: it's also funny how everyone's subject line is crazy ass story, 370 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: which I think we might have said to use that, 371 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 1: don't we. Yeah, so keep them calm and as well. 372 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: It kind of defeats the purpose when everyone is saying 373 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: craziest stories. It kind of it loses its effect when 374 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: everyone's using it. Do you get what I'm saying. It's 375 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: like if you asked my kids if something was epic, 376 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: like they go down the little five ft hill in 377 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: the yard and it was a sled rug. Yeah. The 378 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: other thing we're working on and we I don't know 379 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: how many we have, but we need a lot more. 380 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: Um keep sending in the keep sending your submissions to 381 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 1: fund up Old Deer stands because I'm still pushing. Like 382 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: now with the success of the calendar, tremendous success. Now 383 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 1: no one can stand in the way of making it 384 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 1: a fine art coffee table book. I'm proud of you. 385 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: No one can stand in my way. I told Ross 386 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: he'd have he'd encounter zero resistance on that project going forward. 387 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: So send your pictures of crazy old deer stands two 388 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: funked up old deer stands at the media dot com. 389 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: We've gotten over. I don't know. That was a long 390 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: time ago there, Now what that's a lot of pictures 391 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: to look through. Seflixom he listens so like Walleye podcasts 392 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: and this is the poet draws the salary dream job. 393 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, kee paying him for this, Like 394 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: I feel like I should be paying you guys. Um. 395 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: A surgeon wrote in saying that he had a this 396 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: comes off. We were talking about a cannibalism article that 397 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: was in vice of a guy that had, like I 398 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: can't remember why, he had an amputation and then had 399 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: a party and made tacos and like his friends came 400 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 1: over ate his arm foot right foot? Is that what 401 00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: it was was advice? Uh? A surgeon rode in and 402 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: he had to go through a deal he had with 403 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: a guy. He gave a hip replacement too, and the 404 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: guy really wanted his ball joint back, So the doctor 405 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: had humored him and went through a lengthy process of 406 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: getting it checked out for hospital for the legality. Then 407 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: she got it squared away, gave the guy his ball 408 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: joint back and asked what he was gonna do with it, 409 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: and he couldn't decide between turning it into the handle 410 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: on a gun cleaning rod or the shifter for his truck. 411 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: That's a redneck move right there. Toxo plasmosis, which we 412 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time on. Who oh, yeah, we 413 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 1: had a do we have a yeah, we had an 414 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: expert on for that. Toxo plasmosis. Did you ever hear that? Fred, 415 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: I've heard of it. It's like bacterial infection that's passed 416 00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: through feline feces. And there's this interesting I was skeptic, 417 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 1: but I've I've become not a skeptic. Telling my favorite 418 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: quote of all time, Johnnie, Skepticism is the chastity of 419 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: the intellect. I was telling my kids that there, and 420 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: I try to explain after them, trying to teach six 421 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: every night at dinner. There tell me something that some 422 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: guy at school told him, some kids school, something like no, 423 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: just no, it's like not, he's not telling the truth. 424 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: Oh right, your kids are back in school already, so 425 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 1: I started, Oh yeah, just the strachers. Joe was so 426 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: and So's dad got a checked by a grizzly. I 427 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: feel like I would have heard about them, man, you know. 428 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: Um uh. Anyways, this is weird thing where it seems 429 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: and there's like some research out of Africa that like 430 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: toxoplasmosis is transmitted like the whole is through feelines. Even 431 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: herbivores get it from just like grazing close to cat excrement. 432 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: But it seems that an animal um infected with toxoplasmosis 433 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:19,120 Speaker 1: loses its fear of feelines reduced inhibitions. And I don't 434 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: know if it's just reduced inhibitions or reduced inhibitions of feelines. 435 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: But for instance, they were looking at what was that 436 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: animal that the what's the like the thing that everybody 437 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: in Africa's lie is mad at all times? It was 438 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: in Africa. It wasn't a dingo dog. No no, no, no. 439 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 1: That they're looking at like of hyena pops that are 440 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: infected with toxoplasmosis that they track get killed by lions, 441 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: ones that aren't infected. It's a very low percentage, but 442 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: they did. There's a study in this journal that someone 443 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: sent us um that risky business linking toxoplasma in fact 444 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: and entrepreneurship behaviors across individuals and countries. WHOA, you lose 445 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: your inhibitions, you become more entrepreneurial when uh not in fact? Yeah? 446 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: When in fact with the toxic plasmosis. Yeah, well that's cool. 447 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:22,719 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I mean there are a lot 448 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: of these cases with plants, right that they have compounds 449 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: in them that when a herbivore eats them, all right, 450 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: they get a little bit of hallucinogenic kind of effect 451 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:35,719 Speaker 1: and they're happy and hang out. Well, oh he does 452 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: want to get eaten to have his seed spread. No, 453 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: he wants if if you're eating the plant and you 454 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: lose your inhibitions and some carnivore comes in, that's what's 455 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: pretty good for the plant. So you know, I told 456 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: you I was a hippie, but I mean, you like, 457 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: but the thing about it, right, hippie is just hanging out. 458 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: Do we have that here in North America's prayer? Does 459 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: that happen in North America? Yeah? Well I'm trying to think. 460 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: I mean, you know psilocybina. That's pretty much rooms, right, 461 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna read the first line of the abstract discipline 462 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: such as business and economics often rely on the assumption 463 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: of rationality when explaining complex human behaviors. However, growing evidence 464 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: suggests that behavior may concurrently be influenced by infectious micro 465 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: organisms toxico plasma infects and estimated man, how can this 466 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: be true? Two billion people worldwide and has been linked 467 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: to behavioral alterations in humans and other vertebrates. Are a 468 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: quarter of the world's population? Is that correct? Seven billion 469 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: people on the planet. Uh? You know Rick Smith's I 470 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: know that number always because when someone's saying like, someone 471 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: will mentioned like someone doing some crazy thing and people 472 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: be like no, and Brick'll be like, there's seven billion 473 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,959 Speaker 1: people on the planet. Of course someone's into that. Mhm Um, 474 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: that's really interesting. If you want to get, like your 475 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: spouse onto on board with an idea that they can't 476 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,239 Speaker 1: get on board with. They think it's risky her hang 477 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: out by the literal to get a little go over 478 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: to the old litter box. Um, this is a great story. 479 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: This is a this is legitimately fascinating story right here. Um, 480 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: there's a research real quick though. It's not only a correction, 481 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: but in twenty nineteen, we're up to seven point six billion, 482 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: so you might as well just start saying eight. I'll 483 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:51,959 Speaker 1: switch round it up. We're getting there, Fred, This right 484 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: is gonna tickle your fancy all right. Um I I 485 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: know of this gentleman because my my brother in Alaska 486 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: actually studied under him. Uh. There's a research named Matthew 487 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: Wooler who interestingly, Matthew Wooler, who is doing work on 488 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: woolly mammoth's at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks. So this, 489 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: this is interesting, This is good to look at. This 490 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: guy focuses on stabile isotopes and he's looking at the 491 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: isotope strontium. Might pronounce that right, straw stum. Now, strontium 492 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: is is like a stable isotope that occurs and soils 493 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: and comes from from the natural ground. Okay, And it's 494 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: like the vegetation regimes change, but that stays the same. 495 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: And it's one of these isotopes that varies across the landscape. 496 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: But over time, right, the climate might change, vegetation regime change, 497 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: animals change, it doesn't change, and it's in varying in 498 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: uh densities across the landscape. So this guy first, these 499 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: guys went and they were looking at some kind of 500 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: shrew I think is it in here? They were looking 501 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: at some kind of vol or shrew, and they were 502 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: taking the teeth out of voles and shrews that are 503 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: widely distributed across northern Alaska, and they have a very 504 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: small home range. So when you catch one and take 505 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: his tooth out the strontium, the stabile isotope in the soil, 506 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: is grows into its teeth and he doesn't stray fire. 507 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: So when you catch one, you can assume that he's 508 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: always been in some tight little spot, and so you 509 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: can look at how this isotope is taken up in 510 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: this guy's tooth, and his tooth continuously grows right. So 511 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: you can then measure that like the level of the tooth, 512 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 1: and you can make a map of how much of 513 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: this stuff exists across the landscape and various areas. They then, 514 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: how do you feel about my explanation? That sounds great? 515 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: Don't you don't want to repair it in anyway? They 516 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: get a tusk off of mammoth. It's a big gas 517 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: tusk um and they take that mammoth tusk and rip 518 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: it in a band saw all the way around, so 519 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: they like run it through a bandsaw, and they have 520 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: this big, curly split tusk. And apparently this is the 521 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: same thing on sheep horns too. When you cut it 522 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: and look at it in profile, as it grows, it 523 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: grows in what looks like stacked ice cream cones, and 524 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: it's very clear on the inside, but on the outside 525 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: that the differences get they get smoothed over from you, 526 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: so you can't tell. But when you cut it looks 527 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: like stacked ice cream cones. Where he's continuously putting out 528 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: new tusk. So these things whatever, they get like an 529 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: eight nine ft tusk over the course of the life 530 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: this mammoth, their tusks they're looking at with him, he's 531 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: a twenty eight year old mammoth. When he's a little 532 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: baby sucking on his mother's milk, that's like the very 533 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: tip of his tusk, and that grows out. And then 534 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: when he's twenty eight years old, what's going on with 535 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 1: his tusk is like emerging from his jaw. Then they 536 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: can take and look at because they put together this 537 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: map of this stable isotope and the soil and then 538 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: they can take and look as he grew, where was 539 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: he living and this thing. You look at the map 540 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: they published, it's in it's in the journal Science. You 541 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: look at the map they published the detail of how 542 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: this thing spent the years of its life. It is incredible. 543 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: It was born and raised and spent like its adolescents 544 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: south of the Brooks Range when it hits around the 545 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: time it was fourteen, I think they hit sexual maturity. 546 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: He migrated up through a pass to the north side 547 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,800 Speaker 1: of the b Range and then later made another migration 548 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: near the Colville River. He it seems like he walked 549 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 1: enough to have traveled around the Earth twice in his 550 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: migrations and then died of starvation along the Coalville. And 551 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: they can tell he died of starvation because his diet 552 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: changed to just like to look like a carnivore. And 553 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: it was when he was he somehow it had an injury, 554 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: couldn't eat anymore, it seems, and just self digested and 555 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: was taking in no vegetation and that's where he died. 556 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: It's an incredible map. Was the map in the male 557 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: was Matt Beth Shapiro who's been on this show. It 558 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: was her lab that determined some of the some of 559 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: the demographics about the animal years old, seventeen thousand, one 560 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: years ago, a male mammoth. You look at the Smithsonian 561 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: link or the the Science link. I read about it 562 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: in Science. So you had to pay to get access 563 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: to the whole thing. No, someone sent me one of 564 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: those J store or whatever links. I'd show you the map, Fred, 565 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: but I don't know. I've seen that. It's an incredible 566 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: bit of work, man, excellent, very cool piece of work. 567 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,919 Speaker 1: So I guess you talked to Beth about bringing back 568 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: that mammoth. She's great. We're trying to get her back 569 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 1: on the show. One more thing, Fred, and we're gonna 570 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 1: one extremely quick. One's extremely quick. Hey, whatever, this is fun. 571 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: Guy wrote it about why do you trapp Why do 572 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: conna bears have the desert the size destination they have. 573 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: I called some experts. No one knows. So conna bears 574 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,279 Speaker 1: like generally like traditionally, conna bears are coming like one tent. 575 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: Everybody knows one ten body gripping traps. I called a 576 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 1: trap expert. I call him Joe Beaver, but his name 577 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,319 Speaker 1: is Mike. Uh. He said, I have no idea, man, 578 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 1: he goes it's a very confused system. It's like a 579 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: one ten n a bear has a four inch jaw 580 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: spread unless you buy a blile one ten, which is 581 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: a four point five inch straw spread. Now if you 582 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,359 Speaker 1: can't say it, so, a one ten zero has one 583 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,800 Speaker 1: spring and a four inch spread, A one two zero 584 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 1: has two springs four inch spread. And there's a one 585 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: fifty with a five inch spread, one sixty with a 586 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,720 Speaker 1: six in spread. So at this point you're thinking like, okay, 587 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: one five five inch spread, one six zero six in spread. 588 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 1: Well that goes to hell when you hit a two 589 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 1: twenty which has a seven inch spread, to eighty at 590 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: eight three thirty at a ten, he's like, there's no rhymer. 591 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,439 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean anything. If anyone has corrected this, it's 592 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: Minnesota Brand traps. They launched a trap called them m 593 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:53,479 Speaker 1: B twelve sixteen j C. And that's like a rifle 594 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 1: caliber because it actually means something, m B Minnesota Brand 595 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: twelve sixteen. It's twelve by sixteen j C. It was 596 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: invented by John Kratty of Michigan. So you got a 597 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,760 Speaker 1: couple of those, don't you. So in short for your answer, 598 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 1: the best I can tell in my casual research that 599 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: I don't know. No one knows what the hell it means. 600 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: It's like one of small three is big to his 601 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: medium enough. Yeah, I was trying to find something on it. 602 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: I was looking all over the place, couldn't find anything. 603 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 1: A guy from East Texas wrote in He's conflicted about 604 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: the use of orange plastic trailmarking tape surveyors tape that 605 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,759 Speaker 1: hunters used to navigate their way to and from their 606 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,800 Speaker 1: hunting areas. This is he says, On one hand, I 607 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: understand that everyone has the means to purchase a GPS 608 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: or even a smartphone to utilize mapping apps that have 609 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: become so accessible. On the other hand, I hate walking 610 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: through the woods and seeing orange flag and tape littered 611 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 1: all throughout. Some of it's been there for years. Something 612 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 1: looks like it was just put up, he says. When 613 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,399 Speaker 1: I see it, I put in my pocket and throw 614 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 1: in the garbage. Am I bad? Am I doing my 615 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,319 Speaker 1: fellow hunters wrong? I pick up every scrap I see. 616 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 1: I do the same thing, Josh. I've left a lot 617 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,920 Speaker 1: of it throughout my life because we used to mark 618 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,359 Speaker 1: blood trails with it. Um not go back and pick 619 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 1: it up whatever, you're lazy. Most of it's plastic, right man, 620 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 1: It's just plastic, orange svarrious tapes. I hate seeing. It's 621 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,359 Speaker 1: not okay to leave plastic in the woods. I hate 622 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 1: seeing it. Always go grab it much if you're using 623 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: it to mark ways in. I think a much more 624 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: a nicer spot is just get those little glow in 625 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: the dark thumb tacks. You can see it in the daylight. 626 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 1: At night, your flashlight hits it. We used to use 627 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,959 Speaker 1: those to get into duck spots. Just stick thumb tacks 628 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 1: and trees. We used to also walked through was a 629 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: a machette and blaze all the trees. That was common practice. 630 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:53,920 Speaker 1: Just being dumb. But yeah, I've hung a lot of 631 00:39:53,960 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: that tape. I don't like it. This guy be other 632 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: ways well, obviously on X tracking function is definitely the easiest. Yeah, 633 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 1: but he's trying to be he's trying to be compassionate 634 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: and empathetic. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know acknowledging. 635 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 1: Maybe not everyone has. Sure you got like a roll 636 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 1: of surveyors tape laying around. I can't like, you know, 637 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: I can't blame someone for using it, but I just 638 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,800 Speaker 1: think you should when you're done. Grab But yeah, exactly, 639 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 1: you're done grab all right? Fred? You're queens, Yeah, New 640 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: York City. Yeah, you began your career. Explain this studying 641 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:52,239 Speaker 1: spider might evolution. Yeah, and insecticide resistance? Is that a 642 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,279 Speaker 1: good avenue into this or what's the best avenue to 643 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 1: get into your work? Well, that's not a bad one 644 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 1: to get into how to get into the ems? Yeah, 645 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,279 Speaker 1: So I'll tell you, you know, the way I got 646 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: into this whole thing is through that work and spider mites. 647 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,839 Speaker 1: So the thing is is that you know, plants are 648 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 1: attacked by herbivores, right, and spider mites are one of them. 649 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: Spider mites are actually you know, I think you know 650 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 1: that it's really tiny, right, like aphids and such. A 651 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 1: really tiny big caterpillar is different, right, A single spider 652 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 1: night they're attacked by the spider mites attack plants, all right. 653 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,279 Speaker 1: So the spider mites feed on lots of crops. And 654 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,400 Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, spider mites, a single spider 655 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 1: mite species one called a two spotted spider mite attacks 656 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,840 Speaker 1: plants in your house and attacks crops like corn or soybeans. 657 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 1: And it's not an ai it's not an a it's 658 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: actually not even an insect has it has eight legs. 659 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 1: But the important thing is that it attacks these crops 660 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 1: and plant breeders, today's plant breeders try to breed their 661 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,480 Speaker 1: crops so that to be resistant to the attack of 662 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: the spider mite. All right, so they wouldn't have to 663 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:05,240 Speaker 1: spray insecticide or carraside as it would be. So what's 664 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:11,759 Speaker 1: interesting carrasite is because erachnant, right, so as opposed to insects. Um, 665 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: So what is the what is the base word you using? 666 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 1: Like insecticide? I get it, it's like a thing that 667 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,520 Speaker 1: kills insects, But what is the word a caraside? But 668 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:25,400 Speaker 1: what is the cas a caraside? That must be my 669 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 1: leftover queen's act. I don't know. Yeah, you're saying, like right, yeah, right, 670 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,320 Speaker 1: So in any event that you know, breeders breed that 671 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,120 Speaker 1: into their plants. I do this all the time for 672 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,960 Speaker 1: pathogens as well. You know fungi that you know that 673 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:48,920 Speaker 1: caused the Irish potato famine. Right, breeders will breed potatoes 674 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: so that they won't be attacked by that fungus. Right. 675 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,880 Speaker 1: The problem is that these are living organisms and they evolve, 676 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,800 Speaker 1: and so those spider mites evolve to become able to 677 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,959 Speaker 1: feed on those crops that the breeder so carefully bred 678 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 1: to be resistant to them. Let's spider mites are interesting. 679 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,200 Speaker 1: All right. Let me just say this. I worked on cucumbers. Right. 680 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:15,960 Speaker 1: Have you ever eaten a cucumber and the peel is bitter? Listen? Yesterday, 681 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,839 Speaker 1: Oh I had I left one of my garden too long. 682 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 1: My daughter. My daughter was like not into it and 683 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 1: wanted me to peel it. Right, yeah, Okay, that's due 684 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:32,760 Speaker 1: to cucurbitations. See right, it's a compound. It's a terpenoid compound, 685 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,879 Speaker 1: doesn't doesn't really matter, but it's a chemical, right, it's 686 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: a chemical that is making that cucumber toxic to those 687 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:45,040 Speaker 1: spider mites. Yeah. So for my thesis, well, that's what 688 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,320 Speaker 1: makes it. That's what that bitterness when you well, so 689 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,279 Speaker 1: this is the right. So, but the thing is that 690 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,239 Speaker 1: that cucurbitation is in the leaves as well, So the 691 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,359 Speaker 1: spider might speed on the leaves. So if you want 692 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,640 Speaker 1: to protect them, that would be that's a great resistant 693 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,719 Speaker 1: cucumber variety. So for my thesis, the question was, wait, 694 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 1: you're gonna put all these years and it could take 695 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,839 Speaker 1: ten years to breathe these cucumbers to be resistant. Well, 696 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,880 Speaker 1: I looked at those spider mines. They have a generation 697 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 1: every week or two a right, how long is it 698 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,840 Speaker 1: gonna take them to become adapted to it? And I 699 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 1: did experiments in my thesis and show that they could 700 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:23,319 Speaker 1: become adapted to that toxin and then you know, then 701 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: you wouldn't have any utility to that cucumber. But okay, 702 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,280 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to be I'm trying to be considered 703 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 1: of people tracking along talk about by what mechanism they 704 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,520 Speaker 1: become adapted to explain that, Like they're having many offspring 705 00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:48,320 Speaker 1: that are all a little different. Yeah, okay, So spider 706 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,799 Speaker 1: mines like human beings, right, we're all different, right, blue eyes, 707 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,200 Speaker 1: brown eyes, whatever. We have genes that control that. So 708 00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,319 Speaker 1: with spider mites, they have genes that differ in terms 709 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 1: of the metabolism of that itider mite and spider mans 710 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,680 Speaker 1: have evolved over millions of years, right to feed on plants, 711 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,479 Speaker 1: so they've always had to be dealing with toxins before 712 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,480 Speaker 1: humans existed. Right that plants are always producing toxins to 713 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 1: kill off the things that feed on them. It just 714 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 1: makes sense. That's why you have all these spices right 715 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,680 Speaker 1: in the grocery store. Then plants did not make spices 716 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:26,160 Speaker 1: for you. They made it to protect themselves or and 717 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,680 Speaker 1: and some other things, but mainly to protect themselves right 718 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:36,960 Speaker 1: against uh, either insects or mammals or against um, you know, pathogens. 719 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:41,239 Speaker 1: Imagine how helpful capskin is, right, you know how many 720 00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,120 Speaker 1: things are gonna want to eat? How many wild animals 721 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,480 Speaker 1: are gone into a haberdactly? Right? And then of course 722 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,800 Speaker 1: you have insects that have adapted to a certain plant 723 00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: and they sequester that company. They put that compound into 724 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,239 Speaker 1: their bodies like a monarch butterfly does. Right. They take 725 00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,880 Speaker 1: from the milkweed that they feed on, they take the 726 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:02,320 Speaker 1: cardenoloids that obviously cardiac effects, and they put them in 727 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,600 Speaker 1: their body. So when a bird feeds on them in 728 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,279 Speaker 1: Mexico where they all migrate, they would spit them out. 729 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,960 Speaker 1: Of course, there are birds that have adapted to be 730 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,080 Speaker 1: able to deal with that toxin as well. But anyway, 731 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,920 Speaker 1: it's a whole coevolution, right of the plants and the 732 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,680 Speaker 1: insects that I studied when I was in graduate school. 733 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 1: But the whole idea is for have applied implications, right, 734 00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,279 Speaker 1: so that you know, how could you have a sustainable 735 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,960 Speaker 1: agricultural system where you use less insecticide and the plants 736 00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:35,200 Speaker 1: protected themselves. So that's what I was studying, going about 737 00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:39,480 Speaker 1: by business, and some people cared about it. Most people 738 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:43,040 Speaker 1: didn't write, but it was an important thing for sustainable agriculture, right, 739 00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,239 Speaker 1: I mean at the big level. Two. I mean, you know, 740 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,719 Speaker 1: we were having a real problem with wheat with the 741 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,359 Speaker 1: hessian fly, right, would adapt so quickly to every time 742 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,600 Speaker 1: in the Midwest. So they put out a new variety 743 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,000 Speaker 1: of wheat that was resistant to this hession fly. That 744 00:46:56,080 --> 00:47:00,400 Speaker 1: really is problematic. It would last for four years or so, 745 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,319 Speaker 1: and then the hessian fly would adapt to it. Well 746 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,880 Speaker 1: that's not sustainable, right, you gotta So that's what I 747 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:10,200 Speaker 1: was studying because because the ultimate goal is it's like 748 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,200 Speaker 1: the ultimate goal is too pronged. It's continue to produce 749 00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:19,120 Speaker 1: food to feed people, and to reduce how much chemical 750 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,640 Speaker 1: you need to spray, right, Yeah, And and to get 751 00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:24,080 Speaker 1: back to your question of what what happened there was 752 00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,520 Speaker 1: that some of the mites had different metabolic pathways than others, 753 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,760 Speaker 1: just as in the same way that our digestive systems 754 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,719 Speaker 1: are different one human to another, and those that were 755 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,919 Speaker 1: able to deal with that cucurbitation, that compound that stays 756 00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,560 Speaker 1: so bitter to you, we're able to survive. And the 757 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,080 Speaker 1: ones that didn't die it off. So over time the 758 00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:47,239 Speaker 1: population shifted from the majority of dying because they were 759 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,000 Speaker 1: when they feed on a cucommer plant to the end 760 00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,960 Speaker 1: the majority of them survived and did just fine because 761 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,279 Speaker 1: they had the enzymes or whatever it took to deal 762 00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,200 Speaker 1: with that c curbutation. I think a good way here. 763 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:00,040 Speaker 1: I want you to explain this whe you correct me 764 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,680 Speaker 1: if it just doesn't work for people. I'm just trying 765 00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:07,000 Speaker 1: to put in human terms, um a human but no, no, no, 766 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,520 Speaker 1: I don't mean I'd just be like terms not might, 767 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:15,280 Speaker 1: but check me out on it, right, Uh. I imagine 768 00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:17,440 Speaker 1: most people will accept the idea. There's a thing called 769 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:22,400 Speaker 1: celiac disease. Okay, wee allergy. Imagine we were living in 770 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:27,120 Speaker 1: an environment where all we ate was wheat. Um something 771 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,160 Speaker 1: switches and only humans only eat wheat. Now you would 772 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,880 Speaker 1: find in the future that you had run out of 773 00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,680 Speaker 1: people with Celiac disease, and you would have uh, there 774 00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,960 Speaker 1: would be a strong selective pressure against people that had 775 00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,680 Speaker 1: Celiac disease, and you could envision the future in which 776 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:51,759 Speaker 1: that had gone away. That would be us evolving, right, Yeah, 777 00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:53,719 Speaker 1: and in the same way we're talking about. Yeah, and 778 00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,839 Speaker 1: of course, you know, think about people who are lactose intolerant. Right, 779 00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,439 Speaker 1: A lot of cultures Almost everybody is lactose intolerant once 780 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:02,680 Speaker 1: they are adults. Right, when you're young, you need to 781 00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,760 Speaker 1: be able to deal with your mother's milk. But unless 782 00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,480 Speaker 1: you're a milk drinking culture, you lose that. So certain 783 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,840 Speaker 1: groups in Africa that use milk, and certain groups in 784 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,839 Speaker 1: Europe that use milk have those genes, but in other 785 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:27,719 Speaker 1: places you don't because that wasn't adaptive to have, right. 786 00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,440 Speaker 1: So the story, right, So I'm just working on my way, 787 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,600 Speaker 1: but then all of a sudden people develop these genetically 788 00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:38,200 Speaker 1: engineered crops, right, and all of a sudden, well that 789 00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:48,640 Speaker 1: brown okay really yeah, it was earlier later, Okay, So 790 00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,040 Speaker 1: we're gonna have to get into definitions, right, right, what 791 00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:52,759 Speaker 1: is the GMO and all that. I'll tell us a 792 00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:54,440 Speaker 1: little story and then we'll get back to that, right. 793 00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,960 Speaker 1: But the whole thing is that there had been and 794 00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:04,000 Speaker 1: organic insecticide called bacillustheringens or BT, and it was sold 795 00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,480 Speaker 1: called dipel and organic farmers used that. And basically it 796 00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:17,000 Speaker 1: was a fermented soup and dried down of bacterial spores, right, 797 00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,440 Speaker 1: but organic farmers used it because it was natural, right. 798 00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:24,400 Speaker 1: It was it was a bacteria that kills insects, produced naturally, 799 00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,279 Speaker 1: you know. Abbott produced it in these big fermenters that 800 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,040 Speaker 1: they used for pharmaceutic you know, like this big industry 801 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,880 Speaker 1: and organic pharmacusic. But also back in my state of 802 00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:37,200 Speaker 1: North Carolina, tobacco farmers used it against caterpillars, you know, 803 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,480 Speaker 1: and this is you know, pretty intensive, and you put 804 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,040 Speaker 1: it in the tobacco and when the you know, caterpillars 805 00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:45,640 Speaker 1: feed on it, they get disease and they die. Right. 806 00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,640 Speaker 1: But they're one of the things about that bacterias it 807 00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:52,200 Speaker 1: had a single protein that it produced. It was toxic 808 00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,160 Speaker 1: to the guts of the insect that actually made holes 809 00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:59,920 Speaker 1: in the cells. Right. So folks from Montsanto and other 810 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,120 Speaker 1: people were working on that. But what they did was 811 00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:05,920 Speaker 1: they found the gene that codes for that protein. And 812 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:07,560 Speaker 1: we'll get into this a little bit. When you want 813 00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,239 Speaker 1: to say, what is the GMO and what is an 814 00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,880 Speaker 1: organic duck? All right? Because what they did was they 815 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:17,040 Speaker 1: took the DNA code from that bacteria and they moved 816 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,920 Speaker 1: back back one step all right, good, good? What's what 817 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,840 Speaker 1: one step one step back? What had the okay? What 818 00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,200 Speaker 1: had the thing that rots the hole through the gut? 819 00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:34,040 Speaker 1: This protein? All right, there was proteins. It's part of 820 00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:39,040 Speaker 1: that bacteria. Every time that bacteria, you know, makes a spore, 821 00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,600 Speaker 1: so it could last, you know, when there's no food around, 822 00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:44,800 Speaker 1: it would sort of protect itself by making this toxin. 823 00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,759 Speaker 1: And it was a protein toxin. Okay. So that so 824 00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,200 Speaker 1: that's what the farmers were using. Right, they spray it 825 00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:57,560 Speaker 1: and when the catapety living protein, well, they spray how 826 00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,160 Speaker 1: do you call a living a protein with in a 827 00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:04,160 Speaker 1: living bacteria and sometimes they kill the bacteria to process it. 828 00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:08,839 Speaker 1: But whatever it was, that yeah, and actually it would 829 00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:12,880 Speaker 1: only stay out there for about four days because with 830 00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,400 Speaker 1: sunlight and everything else, it would decompose. But the main 831 00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,320 Speaker 1: thing is that's how they kill caterpillars, right, using that 832 00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,640 Speaker 1: protein which was toxic. Right, once the caterpillar ate it, 833 00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:26,680 Speaker 1: it died. So so what these technology people did was 834 00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:30,279 Speaker 1: they took the gene that codes for that protein. So right, 835 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,560 Speaker 1: let's just go back to you have Every organism has 836 00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:36,640 Speaker 1: d N A, and the d n A is read 837 00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:42,319 Speaker 1: you know, in in the cell by and becomes rn A, right, 838 00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:46,879 Speaker 1: and that becomes protein. So for every gene, everybody says 839 00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,799 Speaker 1: you get one protein a. Right. So that's the whole 840 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:53,680 Speaker 1: translation of you have a People would call it like 841 00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:57,480 Speaker 1: a blueprint is the DNA and the house is the protein. 842 00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,719 Speaker 1: So you go from that blueprint to the protein. So 843 00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,480 Speaker 1: the protein is what's killing that insect. So what these 844 00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:09,640 Speaker 1: technology people did was it took that blueprint and moved 845 00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,760 Speaker 1: it from the bacteria into a tobacco plant. At first, 846 00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,680 Speaker 1: that was the that was the like the original one. Yeah, 847 00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:20,239 Speaker 1: tobacco was like the white rat of plant biology because 848 00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:21,920 Speaker 1: we so eased to work with. I know, I know 849 00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:26,080 Speaker 1: it's weird, but that that's that whole was largely driven 850 00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:34,080 Speaker 1: by Chester. Okay, whoa wait a minute here what noll 851 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:38,640 Speaker 1: I listen? So here these boys started chewing as young babes. Okay, well, hey, 852 00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:43,640 Speaker 1: I'm not the GMO in you just just all right, 853 00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:45,600 Speaker 1: So let me tell you about that, all right, Chester, 854 00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,000 Speaker 1: So here we have this, right, the first plant, the 855 00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:52,880 Speaker 1: easiest thing to make to be toxic to these catapults, 856 00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:55,440 Speaker 1: and it was. And anybody who grew up in North 857 00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,080 Speaker 1: Carolina some of your listeners know this that if you 858 00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,040 Speaker 1: grew up in North Carolina for years ago and you 859 00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,279 Speaker 1: were a little kid, you got paid money for every 860 00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,360 Speaker 1: caterpillar that you pulled out of a tobacco plant and squeezed, 861 00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:13,759 Speaker 1: because they you know, and stead before all this insectici Yeah, 862 00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:19,520 Speaker 1: exactly exactly. So that was like, that's like, that's that's 863 00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:21,960 Speaker 1: like the wait wait wait, okay, that's the first I mean, 864 00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,120 Speaker 1: that's like like the first thing like what people would 865 00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:28,719 Speaker 1: have called a genetically modified organism. Well that i'd have 866 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:30,960 Speaker 1: to say in terms of something that could have been 867 00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:35,600 Speaker 1: a commercialized crop. Yes, that's probably so let me tell 868 00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,799 Speaker 1: you all right, all right, Well, the is a reason 869 00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,839 Speaker 1: why you don't know about it, and that is they 870 00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:44,680 Speaker 1: developed that. And we were working actually with some of 871 00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,680 Speaker 1: the companies to test some of this because so these 872 00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:52,200 Speaker 1: are companies that no longer exists Romans Do you know 873 00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,920 Speaker 1: Roman has? Yeah, Well you wouldn't because they don't exists 874 00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:58,399 Speaker 1: a tobacco producer. Well, no, they were a chemical producer. Okay, 875 00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:01,399 Speaker 1: I mean you know these these things really complicated. When 876 00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,200 Speaker 1: you get to these companies. You know, there's no more Monsanto, right, 877 00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:09,759 Speaker 1: Oh there is, it's gone. Bayer bought them. Yeah, so 878 00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:12,320 Speaker 1: that's what happens. But to get back to the story, 879 00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,320 Speaker 1: was that we we tested some of these tobacco plants 880 00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:21,160 Speaker 1: and they were like a mortality of the caterpillars. Right now, 881 00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:23,600 Speaker 1: this is a protein that comes from an organic thing 882 00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:27,520 Speaker 1: that people have been using in tobacco, right, and they 883 00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,360 Speaker 1: put protein and they put that natural protein into that 884 00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:36,840 Speaker 1: tobacco plant. Okay, And we actually did have a meeting 885 00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:41,160 Speaker 1: with Reynolds Tobacco company to talk about this as to 886 00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,320 Speaker 1: whether that would be a good idea for their tobacco. 887 00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:46,680 Speaker 1: And you know, I don't want to swear to this, 888 00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:48,799 Speaker 1: but the word that came back to me was they 889 00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:53,400 Speaker 1: considered it, but their pr people figured that they're smokers 890 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:59,400 Speaker 1: would not want to because because it would have the 891 00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:03,799 Speaker 1: hand out. My right, I'll smoke, I'll smoke twenty these 892 00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,000 Speaker 1: things a day, but there's just some things I won't do. 893 00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:10,320 Speaker 1: Right exactly. But now wait a minute, now, have you 894 00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,680 Speaker 1: ever heard of organic tobacco? Yeah, yeah, right, you've heard 895 00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:15,759 Speaker 1: of organic tobacco because it's out on the market, but 896 00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:21,320 Speaker 1: not transgenic tobacco because that will kill you. No anyway, 897 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,239 Speaker 1: I mean people are fine, even though they could have 898 00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:28,520 Speaker 1: killed of those caterpillars. Right, So so I just this 899 00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:33,439 Speaker 1: is why this human nature. Did any tobacco Did any 900 00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:36,200 Speaker 1: big tobacco company pick up on it? Nobody did. They 901 00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,320 Speaker 1: don't want it. It's never I mean, we grow tobacco 902 00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,640 Speaker 1: in North Carolina, you know, big Lake creage. Still they 903 00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:53,040 Speaker 1: still spread it. Yeah, really yeah, okay, real about that, Phil. 904 00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:56,880 Speaker 1: I can't tell Phil's pay attention. No, I'm I'm paying attention. 905 00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,040 Speaker 1: I just when you were talking about Yeah, these health 906 00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:01,480 Speaker 1: conscious smokers just reminded me of all the guys in 907 00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,759 Speaker 1: my dorm room rolling their own cigarettes. But oh it's 908 00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,840 Speaker 1: it's loose leaf tobacco, so it's good for you actually, 909 00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:11,560 Speaker 1: right exactly, So so just you know, get around. We'll 910 00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,200 Speaker 1: get to this health thing. Right. But but what got 911 00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,680 Speaker 1: me involved? Right, because I'm interested in using this stuff, 912 00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:20,880 Speaker 1: but using it so it's sustainable. And I learned from 913 00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:24,440 Speaker 1: those spider mites it only took them like two months 914 00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:29,320 Speaker 1: to adapt to this cucurbitation thing right back in you up, 915 00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:34,320 Speaker 1: how would when it when it makes sense to you 916 00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:36,480 Speaker 1: get into how you wouldn't have had the same problem 917 00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:40,360 Speaker 1: with your tobacco leaves. Well that's what that's where I 918 00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:45,400 Speaker 1: come in. So I'm actually trained as an applied evolutionary biologist, right, 919 00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,960 Speaker 1: so I'm interested in how these things evolved. Right, So 920 00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:53,080 Speaker 1: the idea is how can we stop evolution? Right? So 921 00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:56,160 Speaker 1: it was clear to me that if all of a sudden, 922 00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:58,440 Speaker 1: so the organic tobacco people when they put out their 923 00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,040 Speaker 1: bt the dipell and stuff like that, it only lasts 924 00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:02,680 Speaker 1: for a couple of days, right, so it's not out 925 00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,760 Speaker 1: there all the time. But what the Monsando people were 926 00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:08,680 Speaker 1: doing was using a promoter that turns on this gene 927 00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,120 Speaker 1: that makes that protein all the time from the time 928 00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,040 Speaker 1: the seedling comes out until it dies. Right, So the 929 00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:16,320 Speaker 1: insects are exposed to it all the times, like taking 930 00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:21,200 Speaker 1: antibiotics all the time, right, good or not good? Well, 931 00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:24,880 Speaker 1: it's going to cause the bacteria resistance in the same way, 932 00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:28,320 Speaker 1: right that. So we were sort of saying, gee, this 933 00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,240 Speaker 1: could be a good thing, but not the way you're 934 00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:32,000 Speaker 1: doing it. We need to come up with a way 935 00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:36,000 Speaker 1: that you could use it and have more sustainable agriculture. 936 00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:39,200 Speaker 1: So the insects won't adapt to it, and so that's 937 00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:42,000 Speaker 1: my area of interest. But when I was doing this 938 00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,760 Speaker 1: before GMOs, there were plenty of other things to work on, 939 00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:47,400 Speaker 1: like the Hessian fly that I mentioned before that I 940 00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:49,680 Speaker 1: was working on and who's that of pain in the 941 00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:54,160 Speaker 1: ask you again, wheat growers. Yeah, but the amount of 942 00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:58,200 Speaker 1: money that's available for crop breeding for Hessian fire resistance 943 00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,760 Speaker 1: is not huge, so you know, getting making headway with 944 00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,800 Speaker 1: that was kind of slow. But when transgenic crops came out, 945 00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,720 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, there was all this controversy about them, right, 946 00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:10,720 Speaker 1: and so there were the people who said you needed 947 00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:13,520 Speaker 1: to feed the world, and people said it's gonna poison you. 948 00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:15,560 Speaker 1: And we were saying, hey, wait a minute, we've been 949 00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:17,760 Speaker 1: using this for organic stuff, but if you use it 950 00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,360 Speaker 1: too heavily, it's gonna go away and it's not going 951 00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:24,000 Speaker 1: to be sustainable. And so we were in the middle, 952 00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:25,160 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden there was a lot of 953 00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:29,480 Speaker 1: attention to this, to the point that when the first crops, 954 00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:32,240 Speaker 1: the first cotton in the first corn came out with 955 00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:37,720 Speaker 1: BT in it, the Secretary of Agriculture label that those 956 00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:42,080 Speaker 1: crops a public good. That right, it's going to decrease 957 00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:48,160 Speaker 1: the amount. Oh god, I gotta go back. It was 958 00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:54,080 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six that that came out, something like that, 959 00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:59,200 Speaker 1: Phil look down there, okay, But but the main the 960 00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:02,080 Speaker 1: piece on that that was really important was he says, 961 01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:04,680 Speaker 1: a public good, so we have to protect it. So 962 01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:09,160 Speaker 1: he involved or the U. S d A, involved our 963 01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:12,080 Speaker 1: group and some others to come up with what approach 964 01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:15,480 Speaker 1: could you take to slow down the evolution of resistance 965 01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:18,960 Speaker 1: to this? And I could go into a bunch of detail, 966 01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,120 Speaker 1: but I think I don't hop if you want it. 967 01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:23,920 Speaker 1: But you know, it's basically a way of actually, like 968 01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,520 Speaker 1: with an antibiotic, right, the doctor who says take it 969 01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:29,720 Speaker 1: until the very end, right as many days as you 970 01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,439 Speaker 1: want give it, give those back to a really high dose. 971 01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:37,640 Speaker 1: A huge evolutionary challenge that hopefully they can't meet. So 972 01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,560 Speaker 1: our whole we came up with lots of different approaches, 973 01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:42,480 Speaker 1: but the one that the companies thought they could meet 974 01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:44,960 Speaker 1: was coming up with a very high dose and the 975 01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:48,960 Speaker 1: plant of this protein that's not at all toxic to humans, 976 01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:51,959 Speaker 1: not at all toxic to humans, right, and it can't 977 01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:54,560 Speaker 1: be carcinogenic in a sense because it breaks down. But 978 01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:56,920 Speaker 1: we get into that, but the main thing was that 979 01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,160 Speaker 1: you could have a high dose but also leave some 980 01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:01,400 Speaker 1: of the crop without any of the BT talks and 981 01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:05,360 Speaker 1: at all. So that would produce susceptible insects that would 982 01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,800 Speaker 1: then mate with any few resistant insects. So it's called 983 01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,440 Speaker 1: the high dose refuge approach. And the U s c 984 01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:14,440 Speaker 1: A made that uh and and the e p A 985 01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:18,200 Speaker 1: made that code. You know, that was what was needed. 986 01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:21,320 Speaker 1: Of course, that you have to have enforcement. And that's 987 01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:24,480 Speaker 1: the problem, right, I mean, people are planning refuges and 988 01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,680 Speaker 1: using the high dose for some insects, but it hasn't 989 01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:31,160 Speaker 1: turned out quite as good. But when it's used over 990 01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:35,560 Speaker 1: the last twenty years, since nineteen nine, well since nine, um, 991 01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:39,880 Speaker 1: in those insects haven't become resistant. In cases where it 992 01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:43,600 Speaker 1: hasn't been used, insects have become resist. So that's been 993 01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:46,480 Speaker 1: you know, a nice story at least, you know in 994 01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:49,240 Speaker 1: terms of you know, if you think and you plan carefully, 995 01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:54,400 Speaker 1: you can do something more sustainable. Uh. Let's approach this. 996 01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,920 Speaker 1: You're smiling. I want to approach this whole subject from 997 01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:06,440 Speaker 1: a different angle from all right, Um, when you go 998 01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:08,760 Speaker 1: to the whole foods store, not like whole foods where 999 01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:10,840 Speaker 1: you go to like a you know, like a fancy 1000 01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:14,280 Speaker 1: s fancy store. Here in this town. We have what's 1001 01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:16,880 Speaker 1: there with the co op? Yeah, I one time saw 1002 01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:19,080 Speaker 1: an advertisement in in the co op. I don't like, really, 1003 01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:22,560 Speaker 1: I don't really going into that much, but um, it's 1004 01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:25,880 Speaker 1: just a little too special. There was an advertisement in 1005 01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:29,240 Speaker 1: there for a cat psychologist. But it was one of 1006 01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:31,640 Speaker 1: those ones where you you know, you cut the fringe 1007 01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:33,760 Speaker 1: and write your number on all the fringe pieces on 1008 01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,360 Speaker 1: the paper and tear them off. All of them had 1009 01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:42,880 Speaker 1: been torn off. A cat psychologist. Okay, somebody could have 1010 01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:47,160 Speaker 1: just been upset with that and then just like seeing 1011 01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:48,840 Speaker 1: an orange tape in the woods, you gotta tear that. 1012 01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:51,720 Speaker 1: It was just people calling her to goof on her. 1013 01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:56,960 Speaker 1: But um, anyhow, you go down to this place, okay, whatever, 1014 01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:00,720 Speaker 1: and you buy a box of cereal and bold letters 1015 01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:07,680 Speaker 1: on no GMOs? What are they signaling to? Like? What 1016 01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:13,160 Speaker 1: are they what are they telling people that people think 1017 01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:16,160 Speaker 1: they're hearing? What are they telling people that they actually 1018 01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:21,120 Speaker 1: need to know? Is it? Uh? Is it a non point? 1019 01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:27,320 Speaker 1: Oh man? Yeah, you can get non gmo water. Really, 1020 01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:30,680 Speaker 1: someone who bother to put that out there? Well, you 1021 01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:34,000 Speaker 1: get no water that has no calories in it too, 1022 01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:40,040 Speaker 1: So it's a back up. Most of the stuff you 1023 01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:42,520 Speaker 1: buy in the grocery store, you couldn't get GMO if 1024 01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:45,200 Speaker 1: you want it because it's not there. So, you know, 1025 01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:46,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people think that when they go to 1026 01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:49,960 Speaker 1: the grocery store, if they buy peppers, they buy carrots, 1027 01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:54,560 Speaker 1: they have to look out that they're not getting GMO. Vegetables. Well, 1028 01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:58,120 Speaker 1: there are a couple of vegetables that have been you know, 1029 01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:03,480 Speaker 1: that our GMO, but mostly it's just corn and soybean 1030 01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:06,760 Speaker 1: and cotton. In the US, there are sugar beets, there's 1031 01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:10,480 Speaker 1: a specialty apple that doesn't brown, and stuff like that. Yeah, 1032 01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:13,520 Speaker 1: but very little. Would you like one of those special 1033 01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:18,320 Speaker 1: apples taste good? Yeah, well apparently apparently they Yeah, they 1034 01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:20,480 Speaker 1: don't brown. You know, you could put lemon on them. 1035 01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:22,480 Speaker 1: Now that's another way of doing it. But you know, 1036 01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:24,880 Speaker 1: you could send your kids to school and they would 1037 01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:29,280 Speaker 1: have apples it wouldn't brown, sliced apples, or you could 1038 01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:32,400 Speaker 1: have it in a salad bar and you could lead 1039 01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,560 Speaker 1: it out for two days and nobody would know u. Yeah, 1040 01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:39,760 Speaker 1: but anyway, but there are a lot of good things 1041 01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:42,400 Speaker 1: coming along in those ways, but it's not out there 1042 01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:48,280 Speaker 1: so much. But to get to the corn, soybean, cotton, 1043 01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:53,560 Speaker 1: sugar beets, um, canola, Uh, mostly the big crops and 1044 01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:55,840 Speaker 1: the big pest because you know a lot of it's 1045 01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:59,560 Speaker 1: been done for her beside tolerance, um, for g life's sake. 1046 01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,720 Speaker 1: Now that the weeds is somebody of your people know 1047 01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:05,800 Speaker 1: have become resistant to life sit because it's been overused, 1048 01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:08,720 Speaker 1: same same old, same right, so they're going to other 1049 01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:13,120 Speaker 1: other compounds. But um, basically you have to think about 1050 01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:17,000 Speaker 1: it commercially. You know what's the market for these different things, right, 1051 01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:20,080 Speaker 1: I mean the amount of market for sea quarn seat 1052 01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:22,080 Speaker 1: is huge in the United States, So that's where you 1053 01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:26,680 Speaker 1: want to make your investment, not in blackberries. Right so so, 1054 01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,440 Speaker 1: but but so to get to your point, let me 1055 01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:31,840 Speaker 1: get to your point. But I want to on top 1056 01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:35,520 Speaker 1: of that, it's more like, um, it's not that you 1057 01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,960 Speaker 1: couldn't that that someone couldn't mess around with carrots and 1058 01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:42,600 Speaker 1: find some improvement if they wanted to. It's just like 1059 01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:44,760 Speaker 1: it's it's more like it's it's out there for things 1060 01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:47,040 Speaker 1: that there's been a need. It's not that there's a 1061 01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:50,120 Speaker 1: reason why in the future you wouldn't have GMO carrots yeah, yeah, 1062 01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:52,720 Speaker 1: you could, and people are working someone incentivized people are 1063 01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:55,880 Speaker 1: people are working on that. There's been a recent article, 1064 01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:58,080 Speaker 1: I guess, in the New York Times about somebody working 1065 01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:01,880 Speaker 1: on tomatoes that would be more nutritious, right, And there's 1066 01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:03,720 Speaker 1: a lot of that going on, but they haven't hit 1067 01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:05,560 Speaker 1: the market. But to go back to your thing about 1068 01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:08,080 Speaker 1: going to the grocery store, go to any old grocery 1069 01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:12,000 Speaker 1: store and look at cheerios in the cereal section, right, 1070 01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:15,600 Speaker 1: and you'll see that they're on the boxes of cheerios. 1071 01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:18,160 Speaker 1: If you look at the regular old cheerios, you know, 1072 01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:21,680 Speaker 1: like good old what oats, you look on the box 1073 01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:24,200 Speaker 1: that said no GMOs on it, you'll see the label. Well, 1074 01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:25,920 Speaker 1: I don't know what it's like in Montana, but in 1075 01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:27,560 Speaker 1: North Carolina, you go to the grocery store, in the 1076 01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:30,680 Speaker 1: box says no GMOs. But you go and look at 1077 01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:35,760 Speaker 1: some of those fancier cheerios that have some other things 1078 01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:42,680 Speaker 1: in them, maybe corn syrup, um, maybe you fanci, oh, 1079 01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,560 Speaker 1: probably maybe honey nut, whatever it is, something that has 1080 01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:48,600 Speaker 1: corn in it or soybean in it, and those say 1081 01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:52,880 Speaker 1: contain some GMOs. Right, So they're being honest with you. 1082 01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:55,600 Speaker 1: Of course, the regular cheerios that are made out of 1083 01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,960 Speaker 1: oats don't have any GMOs. And because there aren't any 1084 01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:02,160 Speaker 1: oats that are produced that have GMOs in them. But 1085 01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:06,400 Speaker 1: you could go down the aisle to another sort of 1086 01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:09,520 Speaker 1: like cheerio e kind of sweet sweetened with some kind 1087 01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:11,920 Speaker 1: of corn, then then it's going to have GMO in it. 1088 01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:14,439 Speaker 1: Now we can get to the question of as corn 1089 01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:18,479 Speaker 1: syrup a GMO. Right, So if you have corn that's 1090 01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:23,240 Speaker 1: been genetically engineered, right, somebody put herbicide tolerance into that corner. 1091 01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:26,000 Speaker 1: Somebody put that protein I was talking about into that 1092 01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:30,360 Speaker 1: corn all right, Well that protein was there, what makes 1093 01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:34,120 Speaker 1: it a GMO? Right? Well, of course we can go 1094 01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:37,200 Speaker 1: back just to quickly. I think all your folks know 1095 01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:42,160 Speaker 1: that genetically modified is any crop that we grow? Right? 1096 01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:46,880 Speaker 1: Corn was developed from teosinte thousands of years ago by 1097 01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:52,000 Speaker 1: cut farmers in Mexico, right, And it was like a grass, 1098 01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:54,680 Speaker 1: right it was. Yeah. I mean so all of these 1099 01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:59,360 Speaker 1: things anything you have, potatoes, tomatoes, tomatoes grow wild in 1100 01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:02,160 Speaker 1: the andes, these little things that might kill you because 1101 01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:06,200 Speaker 1: of the content. Yeah, all of those things have been Yeah, 1102 01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:09,480 Speaker 1: so that's something that's really really exciting. The apple is 1103 01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:13,000 Speaker 1: some little ship and thing from Kazakhstan or something, right, right, 1104 01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:18,439 Speaker 1: all of these things that oh yeah, well they it 1105 01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:24,120 Speaker 1: really is. It's really grass from the western hemisphere, so potatoes, 1106 01:08:24,360 --> 01:08:26,560 Speaker 1: you know, you well, the main thing is, you know 1107 01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:29,360 Speaker 1: this is way back at the turn of the century. 1108 01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:33,080 Speaker 1: You know, this is like you had Darwin right discovered 1109 01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:37,880 Speaker 1: all this stuff about natural selection and this uh Russian 1110 01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:45,920 Speaker 1: agricultural evolutionary biologists um got interested um in g can 1111 01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:48,960 Speaker 1: I use evolution to understand how to get better crops 1112 01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:53,080 Speaker 1: for Russia at that time before the revolution. And his 1113 01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:56,000 Speaker 1: whole thing was going all over the world to collect 1114 01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:59,040 Speaker 1: the most diverse germ plasm he could German pleasant meaning 1115 01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:02,760 Speaker 1: the most netic diversity. Right, So he's going to Kazakhstan, 1116 01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:05,920 Speaker 1: he'd go to the United States or Mexico, collect all 1117 01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:09,519 Speaker 1: these seeds and bring them back to his operation, huge 1118 01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:13,240 Speaker 1: operation to save those seeds and breed better crops. Right. 1119 01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:15,640 Speaker 1: But to get to your point, you know where all 1120 01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:18,040 Speaker 1: these things came from. So he was really one of 1121 01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:21,120 Speaker 1: these people who went back to find the grasses or 1122 01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:24,120 Speaker 1: to find what was the original potato thing that led 1123 01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:27,920 Speaker 1: to a potato um so that you could find things 1124 01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:29,880 Speaker 1: in the andies. So they came from different parts of 1125 01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:32,400 Speaker 1: the world. Right, I wish I could give you all 1126 01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:35,839 Speaker 1: of the diesels. But obviously rice, you know, came from Asia. 1127 01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:39,599 Speaker 1: Soybean came from China, right, and then they spread over 1128 01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:41,920 Speaker 1: the world. You know, we think of Italians being into 1129 01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:46,600 Speaker 1: tomato sauce, right, Well, they didn't have tomatoes. Do you 1130 01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:49,000 Speaker 1: want to hear these stories in my first book? All right, 1131 01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:53,240 Speaker 1: all the Italians got turned and worried about them in 1132 01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:55,640 Speaker 1: the beginning, and right, so, I mean this is the 1133 01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:59,120 Speaker 1: story of of this is early interesting and even more 1134 01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:01,880 Speaker 1: interesting of the person aonalities to study it. There was 1135 01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:06,000 Speaker 1: this controversy about the origins of corn for like thirty years. 1136 01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:08,519 Speaker 1: I don't know, I thought it still was. No, I 1137 01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:14,799 Speaker 1: don't think so it's quieting though, Well, michell, when Michael 1138 01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:18,120 Speaker 1: Pollan wrote that book, the Hell's that book called, it 1139 01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:25,400 Speaker 1: was about weed, about her marijuana, taters apples, okay, yeah, 1140 01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:30,160 Speaker 1: boy desire. Yeah, it was about we think that we're 1141 01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:33,559 Speaker 1: using these plants, and it was about how they're using us. 1142 01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:35,760 Speaker 1: And it's like how these plants conquered the world, right, 1143 01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:38,640 Speaker 1: you know, conquered the world by appealing to humans. But 1144 01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:40,479 Speaker 1: you were just talking about that, right, in terms of 1145 01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:43,720 Speaker 1: animals that love hanging out, Right, all those squirrels in 1146 01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:50,280 Speaker 1: my backyard, Eastern Eastern grays. How many acres you got, No, 1147 01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:52,559 Speaker 1: I'm in this, I'm in this, I'm in the city. 1148 01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:56,599 Speaker 1: You want to go ahead. My squirrels they're pretty smart. 1149 01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:01,559 Speaker 1: So let's get back of that thing, right. So, um, 1150 01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:05,439 Speaker 1: all these crops are really you know, we're genetically modified, right, 1151 01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:09,120 Speaker 1: they're genetically modified from something wild again, like those spices. 1152 01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:12,799 Speaker 1: They didn't come to you as the bounty of nature. 1153 01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:16,880 Speaker 1: They came to you screaming and hollering as as you 1154 01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:20,559 Speaker 1: got them to come, or they got us to breathe 1155 01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:23,920 Speaker 1: them so they could live nicely in a big, huge cornfield. Here, 1156 01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:26,400 Speaker 1: now I'm getting okay, here's where this, here's where you 1157 01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:32,120 Speaker 1: gotta get clear. If there's a difference between like if 1158 01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:35,200 Speaker 1: I whatever, I'm messing around my garden. Yeah, okay, and 1159 01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:37,560 Speaker 1: I'm and I'm whatever messing around with pole beans, and 1160 01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:39,800 Speaker 1: I mixed the different kinds of pole beans, and and 1161 01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:43,000 Speaker 1: I stumbled across and also I realized I got some 1162 01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:46,880 Speaker 1: kind of weird variety that loves my yard. Okay, no 1163 01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,000 Speaker 1: one is gonna be like I'm not eating that something 1164 01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:52,800 Speaker 1: bits pole beans. Those are GMOs right there, head, Like, 1165 01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:54,519 Speaker 1: what is the difference? There's a difference. I don't know 1166 01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:57,640 Speaker 1: what it is. I'm I honestly don't know, but I 1167 01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:02,160 Speaker 1: know that GMO. I don't say GMO apologists is GMO 1168 01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:06,679 Speaker 1: explainers like to point to, well, everything is because everything's 1169 01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:12,960 Speaker 1: been manipulated, right, So but um, all right, so let 1170 01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:14,720 Speaker 1: me let me you know, you're having me on your 1171 01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:17,080 Speaker 1: show because I was in charge of writing this six 1172 01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:22,200 Speaker 1: page report on GMO. And we don't use the word GMOs. Don't. 1173 01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:27,160 Speaker 1: We use genetically engineered crops and genetically engineered foods. And 1174 01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:29,439 Speaker 1: the reason we do that is to stay clear of 1175 01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:33,160 Speaker 1: this as we can, because it is such an odd definition. 1176 01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:35,160 Speaker 1: It got. It was a label that sort of stuck, 1177 01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:37,640 Speaker 1: you know, like frankin foods or something, you know, like 1178 01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:40,160 Speaker 1: it's just the one that sucked. But it muddles the 1179 01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:44,880 Speaker 1: water because indeed, people sort of what's happening here is 1180 01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:49,519 Speaker 1: you know, we've been engineering, you know, genetically modifying food 1181 01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:53,040 Speaker 1: for a long time. We've sometimes made mistakes in the breeding. 1182 01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:55,200 Speaker 1: You know, there was a potato that came out that 1183 01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:58,200 Speaker 1: had more alkaloid in it that had to be taken 1184 01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:00,320 Speaker 1: off the market because what would it do. It would 1185 01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:03,320 Speaker 1: make people sick. You know, Alkaloids are I don't know, 1186 01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:05,680 Speaker 1: They're just toxic to a lot of things, right, And 1187 01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:08,719 Speaker 1: that's why when we bread, when the original people bread 1188 01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:12,720 Speaker 1: those tomatoes sol in a city that that like copersicum, 1189 01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:15,200 Speaker 1: they got you know, they kept breeding for the ones 1190 01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:19,439 Speaker 1: that wouldn't produce as much alkaloid. Right. Mostly what happens 1191 01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:23,040 Speaker 1: in tomatoes or in some potatoes is they'll produce the 1192 01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:25,960 Speaker 1: alkaloid until they get ripe, and then they get rid 1193 01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:29,360 Speaker 1: of it over time. Well, so that makes it well. 1194 01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:32,160 Speaker 1: One of the things is they defend themselves against birds 1195 01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:36,680 Speaker 1: eating the fruit too early before it's mature. Right, So 1196 01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:39,400 Speaker 1: once that seed is mature, then they want the bird 1197 01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:41,639 Speaker 1: to disperse it, so they make the fruit taste sweet 1198 01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:46,280 Speaker 1: and nice. Those plants are smart, right, or whatever evolution 1199 01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:50,360 Speaker 1: is has worked. But but again that's happened a lot. 1200 01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:54,760 Speaker 1: So what we differentiate that because people are interested is 1201 01:13:54,800 --> 01:14:00,240 Speaker 1: this new technology with the first applications coming out. I've 1202 01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:04,800 Speaker 1: where some commercially bread potatoes that had this protein, the 1203 01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:09,920 Speaker 1: BT protein that from that bacteria. When that first came out, 1204 01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:12,800 Speaker 1: the idea was, Wow, this is so new that genetically 1205 01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:16,479 Speaker 1: engineering this, and we don't know if in putting that 1206 01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:20,760 Speaker 1: gene into the plant, they have caused some disruption of 1207 01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:24,120 Speaker 1: the plant's physiology and now maybe it's making an alkaloid 1208 01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:27,639 Speaker 1: that's going to kill us because we've disrupted the genome 1209 01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:30,560 Speaker 1: of that plant. I mean, we didn't know much about this. 1210 01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:33,080 Speaker 1: I mean it was really interesting when they first put 1211 01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:37,800 Speaker 1: that bacterial code, that blueprint from a bacteria into a plant. 1212 01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:41,280 Speaker 1: It didn't work very good because those things have been 1213 01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:44,280 Speaker 1: separated so long that the plant didn't know how to 1214 01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:49,200 Speaker 1: interpret that blueprint very well. So they readjusted the blueprint, 1215 01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:51,040 Speaker 1: made it red. I don't know what, you know, they 1216 01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:54,240 Speaker 1: adjusted how those codes were so they could get the 1217 01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:56,800 Speaker 1: same protein out and the plant would recognize it. So 1218 01:14:56,960 --> 01:15:02,040 Speaker 1: that was like an early fear was I don't know 1219 01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:05,479 Speaker 1: what that is, right, And you know, in a certain sense, 1220 01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:08,200 Speaker 1: it was such an early fear. I mean, I'm I'm 1221 01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:10,479 Speaker 1: trained as an evolutionary biologist, and when that was happening, 1222 01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:12,439 Speaker 1: I said, oh my god, wait a minute, this is 1223 01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:15,040 Speaker 1: not gonna work. You have well no, I was just 1224 01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:17,280 Speaker 1: thinking of it like this is stupid. You know, you 1225 01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:21,320 Speaker 1: have these bacteria that evolves millions, billions of years different 1226 01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:23,639 Speaker 1: from the plants that these they haven't seen each other's 1227 01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:27,439 Speaker 1: code and forever you're gonna take something, throw slap it 1228 01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:30,960 Speaker 1: in there and somehow it's gonna and it worked, you know, 1229 01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:33,679 Speaker 1: And it was like taking an old cassette tape trying 1230 01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:38,559 Speaker 1: to get it your computer though, right, yeah, but anyway 1231 01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:42,320 Speaker 1: that that sort of stuff happened, and but people were 1232 01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:45,720 Speaker 1: still especially think if you're not that tuned into all 1233 01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:49,479 Speaker 1: the ramifications of the DNA and the protein and the evolution, 1234 01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:52,680 Speaker 1: or you think, man, this is wild ass stuff, right, 1235 01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:54,840 Speaker 1: you're gonna put that in there and expect everything to 1236 01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:57,799 Speaker 1: be copasetic, you know. So a lot of the early 1237 01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:01,760 Speaker 1: concern well, what some of it was about the protein itself, right, 1238 01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:03,840 Speaker 1: was well, that protein is fine if you put it 1239 01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:05,200 Speaker 1: on the top of a plant and you eat a 1240 01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:06,600 Speaker 1: little bit of it, but now it's going to be 1241 01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:09,120 Speaker 1: concentrated and you're gonna eat it. Do we have enough 1242 01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:13,840 Speaker 1: studies so the washing, right, no washing that off. So 1243 01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:16,599 Speaker 1: you know, the studies had to be done to make sure. 1244 01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:18,840 Speaker 1: And some people didn't trust the FDA or the U 1245 01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:20,519 Speaker 1: s d A or the E p A you know, 1246 01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:22,280 Speaker 1: to do it well or something like that. So there 1247 01:16:22,360 --> 01:16:25,400 Speaker 1: was a lot of controversy in the in the first years. So, 1248 01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:28,439 Speaker 1: but I think that the issue was if it was 1249 01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:31,559 Speaker 1: bred by you in your garden or by a company, 1250 01:16:32,160 --> 01:16:35,960 Speaker 1: uh like Harris or whatever. You know, some companies using 1251 01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:39,280 Speaker 1: traditional means to breed it. Well, we trust that. We've 1252 01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:42,120 Speaker 1: been trusting that for a hundred years, right, We've always 1253 01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:45,439 Speaker 1: had that kind of agricultures. But this is brand new, 1254 01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:48,280 Speaker 1: and I don't trust it. And by the way, I 1255 01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:50,759 Speaker 1: just generally don't trust the government, you know, or whatever 1256 01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:53,160 Speaker 1: it would be. And I think it's going to poison 1257 01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:58,400 Speaker 1: people over time. Right, I think that was a major concern. Now. 1258 01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:01,519 Speaker 1: The other concern, and that's one thing I want to 1259 01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:05,439 Speaker 1: talk about, is the issue of damn, this is not natural. 1260 01:17:06,560 --> 01:17:11,360 Speaker 1: I'm eating bacteria. I'm eating char in my strawberries, you know, 1261 01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:16,880 Speaker 1: strawberries at the char and it you know, like, what 1262 01:17:17,120 --> 01:17:19,760 Speaker 1: is this? So there was this great sort of uh 1263 01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:23,679 Speaker 1: bio design art group that designed the thing that would 1264 01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:26,840 Speaker 1: be called the mayo tomato. Right, tomatoes don't have a 1265 01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:29,240 Speaker 1: lot of protein in it, so we'll take mayacin as 1266 01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:32,200 Speaker 1: a good protein and put that Gane in tomato, So 1267 01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:34,960 Speaker 1: when you eat the tomato, you could be a good vegetarian, 1268 01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:38,360 Speaker 1: not become a n e maker or whatever. Um So, 1269 01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:40,680 Speaker 1: so that could be kind of weird, and that that's 1270 01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:43,000 Speaker 1: some of the safety stuff. But the other part is 1271 01:17:43,080 --> 01:17:47,080 Speaker 1: that is natural. So I would want to say that 1272 01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:51,280 Speaker 1: over time, those things have been tested, that the ones 1273 01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:53,519 Speaker 1: that are out there have been tested over and over again, 1274 01:17:54,479 --> 01:17:56,919 Speaker 1: some by the industry and you might not trust industry, 1275 01:17:57,479 --> 01:18:01,280 Speaker 1: but some by academic labs or other groups, or government 1276 01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:05,880 Speaker 1: groups and European groups, right, Europeans are very worried about GMOs, 1277 01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:08,800 Speaker 1: so they've done a lot of testing. When we wrote 1278 01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:11,599 Speaker 1: the six hundred page report, we had a huge number 1279 01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:14,479 Speaker 1: of references about safety testing, and in the back of 1280 01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:18,320 Speaker 1: that report we separate each of those references in terms 1281 01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:21,200 Speaker 1: of who did the study and who funded the study. 1282 01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:24,240 Speaker 1: So if somebody doesn't trust industry or government, you know, 1283 01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:26,439 Speaker 1: like they can pick and choose. But I think you 1284 01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:28,639 Speaker 1: find that if you go over the all those studies, 1285 01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:31,519 Speaker 1: you still come to the same conclusion that that corn 1286 01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:35,080 Speaker 1: in the Midwest is not going to affect your health 1287 01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:37,920 Speaker 1: in any measurable way. I mean, there's no way with 1288 01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:40,599 Speaker 1: anything for us to know if it's going to take 1289 01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:44,519 Speaker 1: a year off your life, right, I mean, you know, 1290 01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:47,720 Speaker 1: it's too many other variables, but we have that all 1291 01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:49,840 Speaker 1: the time. We don't know if a Mediterranean you know, 1292 01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:52,519 Speaker 1: Mediterranean diets supposed to be good for you, but eggs 1293 01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:54,160 Speaker 1: were good for you then they were bad for you. 1294 01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:57,320 Speaker 1: And cholesterol. You know, there are a lot of things 1295 01:18:57,360 --> 01:18:59,240 Speaker 1: where it's very hard to get that douta because it's 1296 01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:03,080 Speaker 1: so little. So you can say I don't trust it. 1297 01:19:03,200 --> 01:19:06,840 Speaker 1: But why would you then trust something that Steve Brendan 1298 01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:10,479 Speaker 1: his garden, right, it was weird, right, you find this 1299 01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:13,880 Speaker 1: mutant and you didn't find it, but you found that 1300 01:19:13,960 --> 01:19:15,760 Speaker 1: mute int your garden. How would you know that that 1301 01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:19,840 Speaker 1: mutation hadn't done some weird thing to the temples that 1302 01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:23,000 Speaker 1: the plant uses to kill its enemies. It wouldn't occur 1303 01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:26,160 Speaker 1: to you to be suspicious. It might occur to me, 1304 01:19:26,240 --> 01:19:28,439 Speaker 1: but it won't occur. It won't occur, It won't It 1305 01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:30,240 Speaker 1: won't occur to the U, S d A or f 1306 01:19:30,360 --> 01:19:34,040 Speaker 1: d A in any big way. Um. They do test 1307 01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:37,439 Speaker 1: things to make sure that they're substantially equivalent, they call it, 1308 01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:38,720 Speaker 1: you know, they look to see that they have the 1309 01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:41,880 Speaker 1: same amount of vitamins and so on. But only when 1310 01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:44,640 Speaker 1: it's something big, not something where somebody comes up with 1311 01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:46,840 Speaker 1: a new heirloom variety. They're not going to test that. 1312 01:19:48,320 --> 01:19:53,719 Speaker 1: So the deal is is that, um, you know, over time, 1313 01:19:53,960 --> 01:19:56,120 Speaker 1: there's been enough testing on the things that are there now. 1314 01:19:56,800 --> 01:20:00,439 Speaker 1: But when people start messing around with the pathways them selves. 1315 01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:02,679 Speaker 1: So let's say somebody wants to give you a better 1316 01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:05,000 Speaker 1: tomato and this was his article, I guess in the 1317 01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:08,439 Speaker 1: New York Times, um about I think it was New 1318 01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:11,040 Speaker 1: York Times um making a better tomato that would have 1319 01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:15,439 Speaker 1: more of these antioxidants in it. Right, Well, when you 1320 01:20:15,520 --> 01:20:18,800 Speaker 1: do that, you change the pathways. Because plants. Every plant 1321 01:20:18,880 --> 01:20:22,800 Speaker 1: makes five to a hundred different of these compounds that 1322 01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:25,800 Speaker 1: serve them in some way, right, So when you shut 1323 01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:27,679 Speaker 1: off the pathway to make one of them, you're gonna 1324 01:20:27,680 --> 01:20:30,120 Speaker 1: make more of something else. So we don't know in 1325 01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:31,880 Speaker 1: the future. You know, I don't want to say that 1326 01:20:32,040 --> 01:20:34,920 Speaker 1: just because we've proven that these few crops are safe 1327 01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:38,960 Speaker 1: that in the future you wouldn't be able to make 1328 01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:41,519 Speaker 1: a crop that would be genetically modified and would have 1329 01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:46,080 Speaker 1: health implications. So that's that is feasible that that could happen, 1330 01:20:46,160 --> 01:20:48,920 Speaker 1: So you just have to monitor well. And now compared 1331 01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:52,160 Speaker 1: to we have great tools, you know, the same way 1332 01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:54,720 Speaker 1: you do personalized medicine. We could get a blueprint of 1333 01:20:54,800 --> 01:20:58,280 Speaker 1: a person, right, and now you can do the whole 1334 01:20:58,360 --> 01:21:01,880 Speaker 1: genome of plants and find out if there's anything strange 1335 01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:05,200 Speaker 1: that's been affected by putting that gene in. So there's 1336 01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:07,920 Speaker 1: more of that I would my personally, I think that 1337 01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:10,680 Speaker 1: would be needed, uh, to figure this out, you know, 1338 01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:15,160 Speaker 1: to make people, you know, feel that due diligence has 1339 01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:23,120 Speaker 1: been done about safety. Do you think that the organic 1340 01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:29,080 Speaker 1: label is Do you think it's nonsense? No, I don't 1341 01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:33,800 Speaker 1: think they were getting laybals nonsense. But do you feel 1342 01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:40,320 Speaker 1: that if but but being a being a GMO whatever 1343 01:21:40,360 --> 01:21:43,400 Speaker 1: the hell? What the word you like? Better? Genetically engineered? 1344 01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:49,679 Speaker 1: Yea genetically a genetically engineered organism or an organism that's 1345 01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:56,840 Speaker 1: been fed genetically engineered organisms isn't eligible for organic labeling. Right, Well, 1346 01:21:57,280 --> 01:22:00,439 Speaker 1: so this you asked me if I thought organic labeling 1347 01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:03,320 Speaker 1: was a problem. But I think organic labeling is not 1348 01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:08,000 Speaker 1: just for GMOs. So the issue? Yeah, yeah, what all 1349 01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:11,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's you know, it's it's a value system, right, 1350 01:22:11,600 --> 01:22:13,519 Speaker 1: I mean, I really like to get things that have 1351 01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:15,640 Speaker 1: grown locally just because I want. I think, you know, 1352 01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:17,880 Speaker 1: we really need our agriculture and we don't want it 1353 01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:21,680 Speaker 1: all to be grown in some desert in Arizona somewhere. Um. 1354 01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:24,639 Speaker 1: But you know, so there are reasons why people do things. 1355 01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:27,840 Speaker 1: But in terms of the safety issue, if that's all 1356 01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:32,639 Speaker 1: you're concerned about, right, I don't think that the things 1357 01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:34,920 Speaker 1: you buy in the grocery store that our g M 1358 01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:37,759 Speaker 1: O versus non GMO are going to be any different 1359 01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:42,400 Speaker 1: in terms of your health. Okay, I'll give you one exception, 1360 01:22:42,680 --> 01:22:47,280 Speaker 1: but um, I think that the important piece that you're 1361 01:22:47,320 --> 01:22:50,599 Speaker 1: getting to though, is in terms of eating a duck 1362 01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:54,439 Speaker 1: that had fed on GMOs. Right, is that? So think 1363 01:22:54,479 --> 01:22:58,160 Speaker 1: about this duck, Okay, goes into a corn field out 1364 01:22:58,200 --> 01:23:00,800 Speaker 1: in North Dakota right where you did a show, right, 1365 01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:03,800 Speaker 1: and you shoot, these ducks were on soybeans and corn 1366 01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:09,040 Speaker 1: right exactly, and almost certainly all of that was probably engineered, 1367 01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:13,439 Speaker 1: at least most of it was engineered, right corn right, 1368 01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:17,640 Speaker 1: And so to worry about eating that duck because of 1369 01:23:18,120 --> 01:23:21,519 Speaker 1: the GMO that it's GMOs as opposed to the lead 1370 01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:25,479 Speaker 1: that it was exposed or whatever, maybe in your shotgun shell. 1371 01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:29,360 Speaker 1: You know, I mean it's it wouldn't be an issue 1372 01:23:29,920 --> 01:23:31,720 Speaker 1: to me. And let me explut the sound of your 1373 01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:36,000 Speaker 1: body shock and going off next next your ear. That's 1374 01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:38,439 Speaker 1: a whole other part. Right, what kind of risks are 1375 01:23:38,439 --> 01:23:40,640 Speaker 1: you willing to take? Right? But the thing is is 1376 01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:44,040 Speaker 1: that think about that duck. Right, So the plant makes 1377 01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:47,439 Speaker 1: a kernel. Let's you know, the corn kernel that it's eating, right, 1378 01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:50,519 Speaker 1: it takes it in gizzard. You talk about how you know, 1379 01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:54,960 Speaker 1: grinds it all up, it digests it that it's that 1380 01:23:55,640 --> 01:24:00,240 Speaker 1: d NA gets degraded, right, that DNA gets you know, 1381 01:24:00,280 --> 01:24:03,000 Speaker 1: there's all sorts of enzymes, and people have done testing 1382 01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:07,519 Speaker 1: to show that those that DNA gets degraded in the gut. Right, 1383 01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:12,160 Speaker 1: the digestive process digests that DNA and digests that protein 1384 01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:14,200 Speaker 1: to make great I mean no ascids to build duck. 1385 01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:20,280 Speaker 1: It doesn't wind up putting that protein from the bacteria 1386 01:24:20,360 --> 01:24:24,280 Speaker 1: straight into the meat. So by the time you actually 1387 01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:27,439 Speaker 1: get that duck. And people have done testing more on cows, right, 1388 01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:30,519 Speaker 1: you know, you don't find that in the milk. You 1389 01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:33,479 Speaker 1: find little fragments maybe, but you're not going to find 1390 01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:36,080 Speaker 1: a whole gene in there. And then you know, so 1391 01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:39,160 Speaker 1: that you know, it's that question of what makes it 1392 01:24:39,479 --> 01:24:42,760 Speaker 1: not be organic? Yeah, what does make it not your Well, 1393 01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:47,640 Speaker 1: I think the idea is it's not about biology as 1394 01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:52,920 Speaker 1: much as a social issue. Like organic beef. Okay, so 1395 01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:57,240 Speaker 1: you're so organic beats beef? Oh beef, Okay, there are 1396 01:24:59,200 --> 01:25:01,840 Speaker 1: if you buy I'm a vegetarians, I think beats when 1397 01:25:01,880 --> 01:25:06,479 Speaker 1: you say beef. If you buy organic beef, you're looking 1398 01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:08,840 Speaker 1: for a handful of things, right, It'll have to do 1399 01:25:08,920 --> 01:25:14,080 Speaker 1: with medications and all that. But um, if someone did, 1400 01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:20,519 Speaker 1: let's say a beef producer did everything organic except one 1401 01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:28,200 Speaker 1: detail they fed it GMO corn, genetically engineered cor that 1402 01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:33,360 Speaker 1: beef would be ineligible for organic labeling. But you're saying 1403 01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:40,560 Speaker 1: that a chemist wouldn't be able to go into that 1404 01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:48,880 Speaker 1: flesh and find the incriminating DNA. If they found it, 1405 01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:51,160 Speaker 1: it would be little pieces. I mean, they would not 1406 01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:54,640 Speaker 1: find something right, right, they wouldn't find functional protein or 1407 01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:58,640 Speaker 1: functional DNA and that meat. Right. But let's get to 1408 01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:03,519 Speaker 1: the issue here. I mean, you know it's not you know, like, well, well, 1409 01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:06,960 Speaker 1: it's not an issue about science, I think sometimes, right, 1410 01:26:07,400 --> 01:26:09,960 Speaker 1: I think, why why is it that you know you 1411 01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:12,680 Speaker 1: don't want to use certain antibiotics or certain like the 1412 01:26:12,760 --> 01:26:16,479 Speaker 1: antibiotics are not going to be in that beef either, right, 1413 01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:20,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. Well, yeah, then you know you're gonna 1414 01:26:20,280 --> 01:26:24,120 Speaker 1: feed them to that cow to keep it healthy. Right, 1415 01:26:24,439 --> 01:26:28,559 Speaker 1: But the antibiotic breaks down as well. But there against 1416 01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:33,120 Speaker 1: isn't the worry like the growth hormones. Okay, so that's 1417 01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:35,840 Speaker 1: a whole other thing, the growth hormones. So again, I 1418 01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:38,439 Speaker 1: don't think that there's any evidence that using the growth 1419 01:26:38,479 --> 01:26:43,120 Speaker 1: hormones is going to make that meat bad for your health. Now, 1420 01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:47,000 Speaker 1: of course the way that it's produced might make it 1421 01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:49,360 Speaker 1: bad for your health. Right, So if you put all 1422 01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:51,360 Speaker 1: this santbiotics and and all these growth hormones in it, 1423 01:26:51,400 --> 01:26:54,680 Speaker 1: so you can put all these animals together and not 1424 01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:57,840 Speaker 1: worry about them getting infections and stuff like that, you know, 1425 01:26:57,880 --> 01:27:02,200 Speaker 1: it's a whole production system. So I do think organic 1426 01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:05,479 Speaker 1: as a statement, you know, about a production system as 1427 01:27:05,560 --> 01:27:07,960 Speaker 1: as opposed to only health. Now, I'm not saying that's 1428 01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:11,640 Speaker 1: what every person who buys organic is feeling, right, I 1429 01:27:11,720 --> 01:27:13,240 Speaker 1: think there are a lot of people who buy organic 1430 01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:15,680 Speaker 1: because they worry about the health effects. You know what 1431 01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:17,800 Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like, there's so many things. But I think 1432 01:27:17,800 --> 01:27:19,560 Speaker 1: I mean that you might be making a sort of 1433 01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:24,759 Speaker 1: landscape animal welfare decision, or you're making a personal health decision, 1434 01:27:25,520 --> 01:27:26,880 Speaker 1: or you don't even know, you just know that it's 1435 01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:28,960 Speaker 1: supposed to be right. It's like it's supposed to it 1436 01:27:29,040 --> 01:27:31,160 Speaker 1: and you can afford it, right. Yeah, So it could 1437 01:27:31,160 --> 01:27:32,760 Speaker 1: be a lot of things to a lot of different people. 1438 01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:35,760 Speaker 1: But um, I know that there are you know, um, 1439 01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:38,720 Speaker 1: some organic farmers who think that you should be able 1440 01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:42,840 Speaker 1: to use genetically engine here at corn Rye. But but 1441 01:27:43,160 --> 01:27:45,960 Speaker 1: that's not the rules, that's not the way it's set up. 1442 01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:48,439 Speaker 1: But you know, actually, and if you thought about each 1443 01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:52,120 Speaker 1: of these individual groups, you'd have eight different kinds of 1444 01:27:52,360 --> 01:27:55,720 Speaker 1: organic labels, right. So I think that's just the way 1445 01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:57,880 Speaker 1: it is. And there was a definite, big debate with 1446 01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:01,720 Speaker 1: you in U. S. T A about to include genetically 1447 01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:06,040 Speaker 1: modified corn and soybean as being okay to be organic. 1448 01:28:06,520 --> 01:28:09,280 Speaker 1: There was a there was a debate and it came 1449 01:28:09,320 --> 01:28:11,120 Speaker 1: out with that not being in the you know, the 1450 01:28:11,240 --> 01:28:16,200 Speaker 1: rule being not No. I was not un gladly well, 1451 01:28:16,280 --> 01:28:19,880 Speaker 1: because it's it's an issue about really again not about 1452 01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:23,920 Speaker 1: the science, about values, right, I think that um, well, 1453 01:28:24,040 --> 01:28:26,360 Speaker 1: I mean, it could have said something about the safety, 1454 01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:38,240 Speaker 1: but I don't think that was the big issue. Let 1455 01:28:38,320 --> 01:28:40,800 Speaker 1: me just bring this around to you, all right about 1456 01:28:40,840 --> 01:28:46,040 Speaker 1: the natural part, right, Um, I think about your followers 1457 01:28:46,080 --> 01:28:48,680 Speaker 1: and people who are hunters who care, right, who are 1458 01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:54,479 Speaker 1: conservationists as well, right when you go out to hunt. Well, 1459 01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:57,200 Speaker 1: let's let's bring it back to fishing. Okay, So if 1460 01:28:57,240 --> 01:29:00,800 Speaker 1: you go fishing for trout, we you rather would you 1461 01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:03,799 Speaker 1: feel better about yourself? Have you caught a natural trout 1462 01:29:04,040 --> 01:29:08,360 Speaker 1: or one that was released by hey? Whatever? The breeding? 1463 01:29:08,840 --> 01:29:18,320 Speaker 1: Absolutely natural? Oh? Natural? I prefer native. Um. Like, to me, 1464 01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:23,679 Speaker 1: there's like extra points um in my mind, if it's 1465 01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:28,759 Speaker 1: a native animal native to the landscape, meaning a rainbow 1466 01:29:28,800 --> 01:29:34,360 Speaker 1: trout in Alaska, um, to me has far more value 1467 01:29:34,840 --> 01:29:39,720 Speaker 1: than a rainbow trout in Montana. M Um. I view 1468 01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:42,120 Speaker 1: a rainbow trout in Montana as being like a corrupted 1469 01:29:42,920 --> 01:29:46,400 Speaker 1: h It came from a hatchery, it's corrupted, it was 1470 01:29:46,439 --> 01:29:49,080 Speaker 1: brought in by man. I hunt turkeys in a lot 1471 01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:51,759 Speaker 1: of areas where they're not native, and when I'm hunting 1472 01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:55,400 Speaker 1: turkeys where they are native, it feels more special to me. Okay, 1473 01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:57,080 Speaker 1: that's what I want to I mean, I'm sure that 1474 01:29:57,200 --> 01:30:01,200 Speaker 1: a lot of your listeners feel that. I can tell 1475 01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:03,599 Speaker 1: you a hell a lot of trout fisherman like native 1476 01:30:03,640 --> 01:30:09,400 Speaker 1: brook trout, steelhead, a steelhead out of Lake Michigan. Is 1477 01:30:09,439 --> 01:30:13,439 Speaker 1: it a steelhead? I understand all of this, and I 1478 01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:16,040 Speaker 1: agree with you, but I think that it would almost 1479 01:30:16,080 --> 01:30:19,720 Speaker 1: be down the middle two people that are like, man, 1480 01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:25,000 Speaker 1: it eats the fly, it jumps, looks pretty captured. Like 1481 01:30:25,439 --> 01:30:28,280 Speaker 1: I just don't know. I don't know if there's that 1482 01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:31,240 Speaker 1: many people that have your value system, because when they're 1483 01:30:31,240 --> 01:30:34,960 Speaker 1: looking at trout, let me fishing generally. Put this way, 1484 01:30:35,600 --> 01:30:38,800 Speaker 1: you're probably right Chester. You're a big fish, big fisherman. Here. 1485 01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:41,280 Speaker 1: I want you to speak to because he's a guide 1486 01:30:41,479 --> 01:30:47,120 Speaker 1: who takes oh and so somehow his opinions. Let me 1487 01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:49,720 Speaker 1: let me you'll get your chance. Let me explain why 1488 01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:51,120 Speaker 1: I think that that's true. I don't know what the 1489 01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:54,519 Speaker 1: hell he's gonna say. If you talk to a person who, 1490 01:30:54,640 --> 01:30:56,320 Speaker 1: let's say you talk to a person who lives and 1491 01:30:56,439 --> 01:31:02,519 Speaker 1: breathe steelhead, a steelhead fanatic, Okay, I don't know how 1492 01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:04,320 Speaker 1: many there are. Let's there's ten thousand steel in the 1493 01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:09,880 Speaker 1: northwest part of the steel head fanatic anywhere Great Lakes Region, 1494 01:31:11,240 --> 01:31:16,960 Speaker 1: Pacific rim you go find me a hundred steel head fanatics, 1495 01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:25,080 Speaker 1: randomly sampled Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Okay, Oregon, Washington, a very 1496 01:31:25,160 --> 01:31:28,599 Speaker 1: small subset of fisher I'm choosing people who have who 1497 01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:30,200 Speaker 1: are steel head fanatics. You don't have a lot of 1498 01:31:30,200 --> 01:31:35,760 Speaker 1: steelhead fanatics from Kentucky. I don't have access to Go ahead, 1499 01:31:36,439 --> 01:31:42,120 Speaker 1: and you said to these steel head fanatics, Uh, would 1500 01:31:42,120 --> 01:31:47,919 Speaker 1: you rather catch a native steel head or a hatchery 1501 01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:52,720 Speaker 1: steel head? Ninety nine out of a hundred, ninety out 1502 01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:56,600 Speaker 1: of a hundred, it's gonna say, oh, native one of 1503 01:31:56,720 --> 01:31:59,519 Speaker 1: the fanatics. Now you've got all these people that don't 1504 01:31:59,560 --> 01:32:06,000 Speaker 1: know I will say, I don't know there, but I 1505 01:32:06,040 --> 01:32:08,479 Speaker 1: can't think of oh, you know, the all the ones 1506 01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:11,640 Speaker 1: I know are not friendly to not kid friendly. You 1507 01:32:11,680 --> 01:32:14,439 Speaker 1: don't think i'd agree with that, No, because you're guiding 1508 01:32:14,520 --> 01:32:17,040 Speaker 1: people who probably don't even know that rainbow troll aren't 1509 01:32:17,120 --> 01:32:20,680 Speaker 1: from here. I tell him all the time, like, that 1510 01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:23,599 Speaker 1: is a native fish you caught. That's way cooler than 1511 01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:26,600 Speaker 1: that one. You're that way cooler. Yeah, okay, all right, 1512 01:32:26,680 --> 01:32:30,000 Speaker 1: so here we are right in a way in my 1513 01:32:30,120 --> 01:32:31,960 Speaker 1: mind is I think it's cool you bring it up. 1514 01:32:32,240 --> 01:32:40,679 Speaker 1: Did they taste better? No, that's not saltwater. Okay, Sam 1515 01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:42,600 Speaker 1: out of the salt water tastes better Sam out of 1516 01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:44,120 Speaker 1: fresh water. But that's not that's nothing to do with 1517 01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:46,280 Speaker 1: just die right, right. But I guess I just want 1518 01:32:46,280 --> 01:32:48,360 Speaker 1: to bring this around to the cheerios, right. I know, 1519 01:32:48,439 --> 01:32:51,320 Speaker 1: I'm I'm tracking. I want to lay a very solid 1520 01:32:51,360 --> 01:32:54,880 Speaker 1: foundation for whatever you're gonna say. Okay, so, but those 1521 01:32:54,880 --> 01:32:56,960 Speaker 1: are your values, right, I mean you and there's a 1522 01:32:57,040 --> 01:33:01,120 Speaker 1: reason behind your values. I could explain it, but it 1523 01:33:01,120 --> 01:33:04,519 Speaker 1: wouldn't be like terribly convinced. And that's where I think 1524 01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:07,840 Speaker 1: we get in trouble with trying to get an somebody 1525 01:33:07,880 --> 01:33:09,880 Speaker 1: who wants to buy organic, Because Steve, I think it 1526 01:33:09,920 --> 01:33:11,760 Speaker 1: feels like to you probably feels like you're cheating or 1527 01:33:11,800 --> 01:33:13,800 Speaker 1: you're taking a shortcut when you're not. But when you're, 1528 01:33:13,840 --> 01:33:15,720 Speaker 1: when you don't catch like it's something that's native, right, 1529 01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:16,920 Speaker 1: like kind of in your head? Is that how you 1530 01:33:16,960 --> 01:33:26,160 Speaker 1: would frame it? No, it's um. I view. If I 1531 01:33:26,320 --> 01:33:29,840 Speaker 1: was going to say, what was like, what is the 1532 01:33:29,960 --> 01:33:35,639 Speaker 1: most purest form of nature? Okay? I love nature? Okay, 1533 01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:40,080 Speaker 1: I regard it as a sacred thing. Um, even though 1534 01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:43,400 Speaker 1: we are part of nature, right, We're like a component 1535 01:33:43,479 --> 01:33:48,960 Speaker 1: of nature. I somehow have more respect and admiration for 1536 01:33:49,080 --> 01:33:52,799 Speaker 1: the sort of natural mechanisms of Nate that the non human, 1537 01:33:54,000 --> 01:34:00,559 Speaker 1: non intentional mechanisms that drove the distribution of species around 1538 01:34:00,640 --> 01:34:06,680 Speaker 1: the planet. Okay, it's just like to see to be 1539 01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:09,320 Speaker 1: on the landscape with things that arrived in some way 1540 01:34:09,439 --> 01:34:14,360 Speaker 1: that was outside of my species manipulation seems to me 1541 01:34:16,479 --> 01:34:22,320 Speaker 1: more admirable. It's just the story is more intriguing to me. Yeah, 1542 01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:24,720 Speaker 1: So I think where this metaphor comes in is that 1543 01:34:24,920 --> 01:34:26,840 Speaker 1: where you kind of touched on it earlier, where you 1544 01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:29,280 Speaker 1: sort of said, well, Fred brought up the fact, well, 1545 01:34:29,280 --> 01:34:31,599 Speaker 1: we've been doing we've been doing GMOs for thousands of years, 1546 01:34:31,640 --> 01:34:35,280 Speaker 1: but like in your head, long term selective breeding is 1547 01:34:35,360 --> 01:34:37,519 Speaker 1: not the same as I think what people picture when 1548 01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:40,920 Speaker 1: they picture GMOs now is someone in like a lab 1549 01:34:41,080 --> 01:34:44,320 Speaker 1: with a hazmat suit on and like some syringes and 1550 01:34:44,360 --> 01:34:49,560 Speaker 1: a petri dish creating corn and then yeah, exactly, but 1551 01:34:49,680 --> 01:34:52,080 Speaker 1: that's but I think Fred is kind of looting the 1552 01:34:52,120 --> 01:34:54,599 Speaker 1: fact that that's that's not what it's really happened. Well, 1553 01:34:54,640 --> 01:34:57,280 Speaker 1: but but that's this is this whole issue, right, that's 1554 01:34:57,320 --> 01:34:59,760 Speaker 1: really interesting what you was just saying. So it goes 1555 01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:02,280 Speaker 1: back to these kind of values that people have, you know, 1556 01:35:02,400 --> 01:35:06,200 Speaker 1: like you're kind of connection to it, something that really 1557 01:35:06,320 --> 01:35:08,160 Speaker 1: was on the land, and you're connected to it, and 1558 01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:10,760 Speaker 1: you go out there and you do it yourself in 1559 01:35:10,800 --> 01:35:12,920 Speaker 1: a sort of natural way. You're out there trying to 1560 01:35:13,200 --> 01:35:15,200 Speaker 1: deal with this dead carcass that you're trying to bring 1561 01:35:15,280 --> 01:35:18,000 Speaker 1: back a thousand miles or whatever. Right, I mean, it's 1562 01:35:18,080 --> 01:35:21,240 Speaker 1: you're you're out there in that natural situation, and that's 1563 01:35:21,360 --> 01:35:26,760 Speaker 1: valuable to and and so getting around this whole thing 1564 01:35:26,760 --> 01:35:29,000 Speaker 1: about genetic engineering and natural you know, that thing of 1565 01:35:29,040 --> 01:35:31,240 Speaker 1: the people in the lab coats. This seems to be 1566 01:35:31,439 --> 01:35:32,960 Speaker 1: I think to a lot of people who want an 1567 01:35:33,040 --> 01:35:36,000 Speaker 1: heirloom variety or as you were saying, you know, that's 1568 01:35:36,040 --> 01:35:39,360 Speaker 1: pretty intriguing to hear how plants evolved, Right, people who 1569 01:35:39,479 --> 01:35:42,400 Speaker 1: want to have that connection to not being natural but 1570 01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:46,360 Speaker 1: being our cultures have over time. The Chinese culture did 1571 01:35:46,439 --> 01:35:49,680 Speaker 1: one thing, the Mexican culture did something else. Right, That's 1572 01:35:49,720 --> 01:35:53,240 Speaker 1: why Mexican hate GMO corn. Right, you know, we bread 1573 01:35:53,320 --> 01:35:57,640 Speaker 1: this stuff. Our ancestors bred gmo corn, you know, and 1574 01:35:57,800 --> 01:36:00,439 Speaker 1: now you're taking it an injecting it with all the 1575 01:36:00,439 --> 01:36:03,960 Speaker 1: stuff and sending it back to us. You know, we don't. 1576 01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:07,759 Speaker 1: You know, it's not natural, it's not our culture anymore. 1577 01:36:08,200 --> 01:36:11,599 Speaker 1: So I want to bring it connected to conservationists. Right. 1578 01:36:12,000 --> 01:36:14,320 Speaker 1: So you know the story of the chestnut tree in 1579 01:36:14,520 --> 01:36:19,640 Speaker 1: the US. But it was a major part of the 1580 01:36:19,920 --> 01:36:22,640 Speaker 1: forest in the US and it got wiped out by 1581 01:36:22,720 --> 01:36:26,560 Speaker 1: a fungus chestnut chestnut blight. You still can find it 1582 01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:28,800 Speaker 1: out there, but it's only little stumps because once it 1583 01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:31,840 Speaker 1: gets big enough, it gets knocked out, all right. So 1584 01:36:32,479 --> 01:36:37,280 Speaker 1: people have taken Chinese chestnut and crossed it with American 1585 01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:40,640 Speaker 1: chestnut to try to bring the Chinese chestnut's resistant to 1586 01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:44,479 Speaker 1: that fungus. Right, try to bring that in and then 1587 01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:47,640 Speaker 1: plant that out, so you have a hybrid of a 1588 01:36:47,800 --> 01:36:51,320 Speaker 1: Chinese chestnut and an American chestnut. You try to get 1589 01:36:51,439 --> 01:36:53,479 Speaker 1: rid of as many of the Chinese genes. And it's 1590 01:36:53,560 --> 01:36:55,960 Speaker 1: very interesting that we call them American and Chinese. Right. 1591 01:36:56,400 --> 01:37:00,519 Speaker 1: But now genetic engineers have come up the way of 1592 01:37:00,640 --> 01:37:03,880 Speaker 1: moving I think it's a wheat gene into the native 1593 01:37:03,960 --> 01:37:07,960 Speaker 1: American chestnut to protect it against the blight. And this 1594 01:37:08,080 --> 01:37:09,880 Speaker 1: has been going on for a while and there are 1595 01:37:09,880 --> 01:37:12,160 Speaker 1: a huge number of people, some probably some of your 1596 01:37:12,240 --> 01:37:15,960 Speaker 1: listeners who are real proponents of getting the chestnut back 1597 01:37:16,080 --> 01:37:19,920 Speaker 1: into our forests. And the way to do that is 1598 01:37:20,000 --> 01:37:22,559 Speaker 1: to genetically engineer the chestnut tree. So you know, it's 1599 01:37:22,560 --> 01:37:24,639 Speaker 1: a whole. It's a chestnut tree, more of a chestnut 1600 01:37:24,680 --> 01:37:27,960 Speaker 1: tree than the Chinese American hybrid. It's just put you know, 1601 01:37:28,160 --> 01:37:31,040 Speaker 1: a little bit of DNA in there and it protects 1602 01:37:31,080 --> 01:37:35,800 Speaker 1: that chestnut tree. But it's a genetically engineered, transgenic chestnuts tree. 1603 01:37:35,880 --> 01:37:39,960 Speaker 1: So the question the landscape back when Daniel Boone came 1604 01:37:40,040 --> 01:37:42,920 Speaker 1: down through the Cumberland gas right, look more like that, 1605 01:37:43,439 --> 01:37:45,920 Speaker 1: and look more like that, but it would be transgenic 1606 01:37:46,040 --> 01:37:48,920 Speaker 1: and it bears eating right right. And so what I 1607 01:37:49,000 --> 01:37:50,920 Speaker 1: bring up to people is how you know, like also, 1608 01:37:51,040 --> 01:37:55,679 Speaker 1: you know about the kittured fungus right with amphibians kittrid 1609 01:37:55,800 --> 01:38:00,680 Speaker 1: fungus now, but the kittured fungus has been causing the 1610 01:38:00,720 --> 01:38:03,599 Speaker 1: extinction of a lot of amphibians, especially in the tropics. Oh, 1611 01:38:03,720 --> 01:38:05,120 Speaker 1: I don't know about this. I don't know the name 1612 01:38:05,120 --> 01:38:06,960 Speaker 1: of it, but anyway, I mean it's a it's a 1613 01:38:07,000 --> 01:38:08,479 Speaker 1: big deal. So you know, one of those kind of 1614 01:38:08,520 --> 01:38:11,160 Speaker 1: things is wow, what about if you genetically engineered all 1615 01:38:11,240 --> 01:38:14,400 Speaker 1: these frogs pieces to be resistant to the kitchened fungus. 1616 01:38:14,760 --> 01:38:17,640 Speaker 1: So I think twenty years from now, one story is, 1617 01:38:17,960 --> 01:38:22,360 Speaker 1: oh no, people didn't want that genetically engineered frog, and 1618 01:38:22,479 --> 01:38:25,360 Speaker 1: the other as they did. So you go to the 1619 01:38:25,400 --> 01:38:29,720 Speaker 1: forest on one side and a no frog, not much 1620 01:38:29,760 --> 01:38:30,960 Speaker 1: in the way of frogs. You go on the other 1621 01:38:31,040 --> 01:38:33,120 Speaker 1: side and you got all these incredible frogs. And I'm 1622 01:38:33,160 --> 01:38:36,240 Speaker 1: sure you've seen some of these incredible frogs, right, But 1623 01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:38,280 Speaker 1: what does it mean to you to go out into 1624 01:38:38,320 --> 01:38:42,240 Speaker 1: a forest and have this experience and come back and 1625 01:38:42,520 --> 01:38:47,439 Speaker 1: see that? Wait? Was I in a natural forest or 1626 01:38:47,560 --> 01:38:51,040 Speaker 1: was this just a Hollywood movie? I just was in. Right, 1627 01:38:51,120 --> 01:38:53,960 Speaker 1: what does that mean in terms of nature? And where 1628 01:38:54,000 --> 01:38:57,640 Speaker 1: is genetic engineering taking us? And actually, I have to 1629 01:38:57,720 --> 01:39:00,439 Speaker 1: say there is right now that I see in the 1630 01:39:00,520 --> 01:39:04,639 Speaker 1: International Union of is having a meeting to discuss use 1631 01:39:04,680 --> 01:39:08,439 Speaker 1: of synthetic biology for conservation. Really, yeah, it's a very 1632 01:39:08,560 --> 01:39:11,960 Speaker 1: controversial issue. You know. I'm working with a group that's 1633 01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:14,960 Speaker 1: trying to get rid of rats and mice from islands 1634 01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:18,240 Speaker 1: where they cause loss of biodiversity, and we're using a 1635 01:39:18,720 --> 01:39:21,680 Speaker 1: novel technology called gene drive. Well, we're trying to it's 1636 01:39:21,760 --> 01:39:26,200 Speaker 1: far away. It's not there. Basically, well, basically it's a 1637 01:39:26,240 --> 01:39:29,560 Speaker 1: way of having inheritance that pushes the gene into a population, 1638 01:39:30,080 --> 01:39:31,880 Speaker 1: and in this case, we'll be pushing a gene into 1639 01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:34,920 Speaker 1: population who caused the eradication of the mice on that island. 1640 01:39:35,720 --> 01:39:40,439 Speaker 1: The gene it's a gene that makes males instead of males, 1641 01:39:40,479 --> 01:39:43,200 Speaker 1: and females have a whole bunch of males, Are it? 1642 01:39:43,280 --> 01:39:46,080 Speaker 1: I mean, this is just it's not there. I don't 1643 01:39:46,120 --> 01:39:48,040 Speaker 1: I don't want to. I don't want anybody to think 1644 01:39:48,080 --> 01:39:50,160 Speaker 1: that that's the The other is just to have basically 1645 01:39:50,240 --> 01:39:53,120 Speaker 1: in fertility genes, right, so those won't go, but you 1646 01:39:53,200 --> 01:39:55,479 Speaker 1: want to restricted to the island. But there are all 1647 01:39:55,560 --> 01:39:57,879 Speaker 1: sorts of things going on in terms of synthetic biology 1648 01:39:57,920 --> 01:40:02,280 Speaker 1: about just making the arits or something like that blackfoot 1649 01:40:02,720 --> 01:40:06,840 Speaker 1: to be resistant to the diseases, right, so that you 1650 01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:11,639 Speaker 1: can save biodiversity using genetic engineering. But the conservation biology 1651 01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:15,719 Speaker 1: group is really struggling with this, right I think, because 1652 01:40:15,840 --> 01:40:17,040 Speaker 1: and think about it. You know, it goes back to 1653 01:40:17,120 --> 01:40:19,840 Speaker 1: your thing about the fish, right, you know, what kind 1654 01:40:19,880 --> 01:40:22,200 Speaker 1: of natural world do you go out into? Is it? 1655 01:40:22,439 --> 01:40:25,639 Speaker 1: Is it? What what makes it natural? If you guys 1656 01:40:25,760 --> 01:40:30,040 Speaker 1: need someone to do this, I'll do it. Just bring me. 1657 01:40:30,439 --> 01:40:33,960 Speaker 1: I'll tell you chest nuts a okay, yeah, okay. The 1658 01:40:34,120 --> 01:40:37,800 Speaker 1: mouse thing, I think real careful how you can keep 1659 01:40:37,800 --> 01:40:40,200 Speaker 1: those mice and getting yeah yeah, yeah, well I think 1660 01:40:40,240 --> 01:40:44,120 Speaker 1: there's a lot of work being done. I can handle all. Yeah, yeah, 1661 01:40:44,840 --> 01:40:47,240 Speaker 1: well I think, man, I would be very nervous about 1662 01:40:48,160 --> 01:40:52,960 Speaker 1: right right swimming off, you're leaving, you're leaving, and he 1663 01:40:53,080 --> 01:40:57,639 Speaker 1: jumps on the boat right right right, So actually, ill 1664 01:40:58,320 --> 01:41:00,800 Speaker 1: you know that actually the work of the people I 1665 01:41:00,880 --> 01:41:02,960 Speaker 1: work with at NC State are trying to work on 1666 01:41:03,680 --> 01:41:07,320 Speaker 1: one of these gene drives that won't escape from the island. Yeah. 1667 01:41:08,040 --> 01:41:11,800 Speaker 1: I don't want to go into this, but it's a 1668 01:41:11,800 --> 01:41:13,760 Speaker 1: great it's a great question. Yeah. But I mean that's 1669 01:41:13,880 --> 01:41:16,240 Speaker 1: that's has been. I mean I have to say that 1670 01:41:16,360 --> 01:41:19,920 Speaker 1: of all the genetic engineering stuff, the scientists themselves are 1671 01:41:19,960 --> 01:41:22,880 Speaker 1: probably more worried than the public in some ways. So 1672 01:41:23,040 --> 01:41:25,360 Speaker 1: think about this thing about you have a gene that 1673 01:41:25,520 --> 01:41:27,880 Speaker 1: could spread into the island and get rid of all 1674 01:41:27,920 --> 01:41:30,800 Speaker 1: those rats and mice and and really be good for biodiversity. 1675 01:41:30,840 --> 01:41:32,960 Speaker 1: That's pretty clear that, you know, some people say, oh, 1676 01:41:32,960 --> 01:41:34,400 Speaker 1: you're gonna get rid of them, and they're part of 1677 01:41:34,439 --> 01:41:37,919 Speaker 1: the food chain. Now, now it would lead there's evidence 1678 01:41:37,960 --> 01:41:40,360 Speaker 1: that getting you know, getting rid of those leads to 1679 01:41:40,439 --> 01:41:44,240 Speaker 1: higher biodiversity. But you go, ask anybody who rides the 1680 01:41:44,280 --> 01:41:48,160 Speaker 1: New York City subways about getting rid of you know, 1681 01:41:48,320 --> 01:41:52,760 Speaker 1: using this technology, should get rid of the Norway rats? Yeah? Yeah, 1682 01:41:53,000 --> 01:41:57,559 Speaker 1: And what do they say, say do it right? Because 1683 01:41:57,640 --> 01:42:00,680 Speaker 1: they hate rats and it's a non native and it's 1684 01:42:00,800 --> 01:42:05,240 Speaker 1: and and but you know it's gonna move back to Norway, 1685 01:42:05,360 --> 01:42:07,920 Speaker 1: no doubt, right, I mean, I guess the thing is 1686 01:42:08,560 --> 01:42:12,519 Speaker 1: people the scientists who do it, who have ecological backgrounds, 1687 01:42:12,560 --> 01:42:16,200 Speaker 1: they're like you, they're worried about this stuff. But the 1688 01:42:16,280 --> 01:42:19,760 Speaker 1: public has different opinions. You know, if you don't stereotyping 1689 01:42:19,760 --> 01:42:25,720 Speaker 1: me man generally not like on the food thing. It 1690 01:42:25,840 --> 01:42:29,640 Speaker 1: doesn't like just I could. It doesn't matter to me 1691 01:42:30,680 --> 01:42:32,360 Speaker 1: if my kids I had a bowl of cereal, I don't. 1692 01:42:32,479 --> 01:42:34,560 Speaker 1: I don't really like cereal. I mean, I'll eat it, 1693 01:42:34,640 --> 01:42:39,400 Speaker 1: but like it has no barrier whatsoever? What I do 1694 01:42:39,479 --> 01:42:42,519 Speaker 1: watch out for? And I should ask you about this? Um. 1695 01:42:43,560 --> 01:42:45,160 Speaker 1: Somehow I got in my head in some kind of 1696 01:42:45,240 --> 01:42:50,120 Speaker 1: convincing way that I don't like him. Uh, I don't 1697 01:42:50,120 --> 01:42:55,800 Speaker 1: like them, the milk with bull vine growth hormone. I 1698 01:42:55,880 --> 01:42:58,320 Speaker 1: was like, we can afford the other kind, so't I'm 1699 01:42:58,320 --> 01:43:00,479 Speaker 1: not saying I don't know. I don't know, but I'm like, 1700 01:43:00,640 --> 01:43:01,920 Speaker 1: it's just not a big deal. We can buy the 1701 01:43:01,960 --> 01:43:03,360 Speaker 1: other They don't go through that much, but we can 1702 01:43:03,400 --> 01:43:05,000 Speaker 1: buy the other kind. And I don't need to, like, 1703 01:43:05,120 --> 01:43:07,719 Speaker 1: wonder if there's something I'm supposed to pay attention to. Yeah, 1704 01:43:08,240 --> 01:43:10,760 Speaker 1: that's probably a lot of people, like I don't really know, 1705 01:43:11,439 --> 01:43:13,599 Speaker 1: but it's know something that I don't have the energy 1706 01:43:13,640 --> 01:43:15,680 Speaker 1: to go find out right. And that's that whole thing 1707 01:43:15,760 --> 01:43:18,439 Speaker 1: again that the people in the developed world to get 1708 01:43:18,439 --> 01:43:20,960 Speaker 1: accused of. Wait a minute, you know, it's easy for 1709 01:43:21,040 --> 01:43:23,640 Speaker 1: you to be against genetic engineering because you've got the 1710 01:43:23,720 --> 01:43:26,240 Speaker 1: extra money to buy that stuff, the extra whatever, like, 1711 01:43:28,280 --> 01:43:32,160 Speaker 1: but people in the developing world needs g amounts. That's what. 1712 01:43:32,240 --> 01:43:33,880 Speaker 1: That's what. That's That's a great segue. And what I 1713 01:43:33,960 --> 01:43:37,519 Speaker 1: want to ask you next seven and a half billion people, 1714 01:43:37,840 --> 01:43:42,680 Speaker 1: seven point three what is it? Like I said, just 1715 01:43:42,800 --> 01:43:46,040 Speaker 1: round up to COVID trimmed off. So no, no, not, 1716 01:43:47,960 --> 01:43:51,000 Speaker 1: I mean I mean not enough. I mean that not 1717 01:43:51,240 --> 01:43:53,840 Speaker 1: enough to change not enough to change a decimal. I 1718 01:43:53,880 --> 01:43:56,880 Speaker 1: don't think so whatever some seven and a half billion 1719 01:43:56,920 --> 01:44:01,800 Speaker 1: people on the planet, and buy your understanding if we 1720 01:44:01,880 --> 01:44:06,240 Speaker 1: were going to globally Okay, we're gonna we we come 1721 01:44:06,320 --> 01:44:11,920 Speaker 1: to this global decision. Uh, we're done with GMOs. No more. 1722 01:44:12,000 --> 01:44:14,880 Speaker 1: I can't put them in the ground. Um. Is it 1723 01:44:15,000 --> 01:44:19,800 Speaker 1: true that we would that you would buy necessity, need 1724 01:44:19,880 --> 01:44:23,320 Speaker 1: to Probably you would buy necessy probably be starving off 1725 01:44:23,360 --> 01:44:25,960 Speaker 1: a couple of billions of that seven and a half 1726 01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:32,120 Speaker 1: billion people, that you would starve them off. How do 1727 01:44:32,240 --> 01:44:34,400 Speaker 1: I answer that? I think it's like yes or no. 1728 01:44:38,120 --> 01:44:39,439 Speaker 1: I mean, if I had to give you a yes 1729 01:44:39,560 --> 01:44:43,280 Speaker 1: or no, I'd say no, you wouldn't You wouldn't necessarily 1730 01:44:43,320 --> 01:44:46,320 Speaker 1: be starving them off, all right? Um, But I think 1731 01:44:46,360 --> 01:44:49,120 Speaker 1: it's it's a lot of people use that as an 1732 01:44:49,200 --> 01:44:52,599 Speaker 1: argument for GMOs. That's the that's the one that resonates 1733 01:44:52,600 --> 01:44:57,680 Speaker 1: with people. So I guess this is this is a 1734 01:44:57,680 --> 01:44:59,120 Speaker 1: tough one for me because I want to go back 1735 01:45:01,200 --> 01:45:07,000 Speaker 1: in the place where genetics were, which is pretty incredible, right. 1736 01:45:07,040 --> 01:45:08,720 Speaker 1: I told you when they made that tobacco plant, I 1737 01:45:08,840 --> 01:45:12,680 Speaker 1: was like, whoa, But things are changing that you know what, 1738 01:45:13,120 --> 01:45:15,479 Speaker 1: genetic engineering. We've got better go back to what is 1739 01:45:15,520 --> 01:45:18,240 Speaker 1: genetic engineering? Right, it's those people in the white coats 1740 01:45:18,400 --> 01:45:21,400 Speaker 1: right who are doing this, right, But people in white 1741 01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:24,760 Speaker 1: coats do a lot of things, and one is to 1742 01:45:24,840 --> 01:45:27,120 Speaker 1: actually take a gene from a bacteria and stick it 1743 01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:30,360 Speaker 1: in a plant. Another thing that they found that they 1744 01:45:30,400 --> 01:45:34,599 Speaker 1: could do is take a gene from a wild tomato 1745 01:45:35,080 --> 01:45:38,880 Speaker 1: that made the tomato resistant and just put that gene in, right, 1746 01:45:38,960 --> 01:45:41,880 Speaker 1: So they're not taking it from something really weird to 1747 01:45:41,960 --> 01:45:46,479 Speaker 1: taking something similar, so that where you're taking it, yeah, 1748 01:45:47,439 --> 01:45:50,640 Speaker 1: tomatoes and putting tomatoes and tomatoes. Right. So if you 1749 01:45:50,680 --> 01:45:54,240 Speaker 1: start out with the bacteria, it's called transgenic. Moving something 1750 01:45:54,400 --> 01:45:59,280 Speaker 1: trans across the species barriers, right, So that's transgenic. This 1751 01:45:59,479 --> 01:46:02,920 Speaker 1: is called cysgenic because it's similar, right, So you put 1752 01:46:03,000 --> 01:46:07,479 Speaker 1: it in and it's not so weird system. And now 1753 01:46:07,600 --> 01:46:09,720 Speaker 1: the big thing is something new. Instead of moving char 1754 01:46:09,840 --> 01:46:14,439 Speaker 1: into strawberries, you'd be moving like char into another charge right. Yeah, yeah, 1755 01:46:14,600 --> 01:46:16,840 Speaker 1: char from you know, one region of the country into 1756 01:46:16,840 --> 01:46:20,439 Speaker 1: another one to make it more tolerant um. But now 1757 01:46:20,560 --> 01:46:23,880 Speaker 1: there's something called gene editing, right, and this is something 1758 01:46:24,000 --> 01:46:26,640 Speaker 1: that's happened with humans in China, right where you go 1759 01:46:26,800 --> 01:46:30,040 Speaker 1: in and you actually just tweak a human gene, right, 1760 01:46:30,160 --> 01:46:33,680 Speaker 1: But can you tweak just a plant gene? Right? It's 1761 01:46:33,920 --> 01:46:36,200 Speaker 1: you're not doing anything coming from any place else. You're 1762 01:46:36,240 --> 01:46:39,519 Speaker 1: just changing that gene. And that's called gene editing, and 1763 01:46:39,600 --> 01:46:42,479 Speaker 1: it's just one kind of genetting. You use genetting for 1764 01:46:42,520 --> 01:46:44,839 Speaker 1: a lot of new things. It's this thing called crisper 1765 01:46:45,240 --> 01:46:48,720 Speaker 1: that everybody talks about now, right, So that scene is 1766 01:46:48,800 --> 01:46:52,519 Speaker 1: somewhat different by some people because it's more natural because 1767 01:46:52,560 --> 01:46:55,920 Speaker 1: it's not transgenic. Right. But in terms of what you 1768 01:46:56,000 --> 01:46:57,639 Speaker 1: can do to the plant, you can do a lot 1769 01:46:57,760 --> 01:47:00,320 Speaker 1: of new things. But what's coming along behind I ain't. 1770 01:47:00,360 --> 01:47:03,880 Speaker 1: That is something even to me more interesting because as 1771 01:47:03,960 --> 01:47:06,519 Speaker 1: you know, like with human diseases, some human diseases are 1772 01:47:06,520 --> 01:47:08,840 Speaker 1: caused by one gene. So you can think, oh, well, 1773 01:47:08,880 --> 01:47:12,719 Speaker 1: we could fix that one gene, yeah, right, But most 1774 01:47:12,840 --> 01:47:15,799 Speaker 1: human diseases are caused by ten to a hundred genes 1775 01:47:16,120 --> 01:47:19,439 Speaker 1: acting together. You can't make a cure where you're changing 1776 01:47:19,479 --> 01:47:22,080 Speaker 1: a hundred genes at least with the technology we have now. 1777 01:47:22,600 --> 01:47:24,280 Speaker 1: And the same thing with a plant. If you want 1778 01:47:24,320 --> 01:47:27,240 Speaker 1: to increase plant yield, it seems real simple. Oh, we're 1779 01:47:27,240 --> 01:47:28,840 Speaker 1: just gonna put this one gene and it's gonna be 1780 01:47:28,880 --> 01:47:31,600 Speaker 1: salt tolerant. Well, that happens once in a while. But 1781 01:47:31,680 --> 01:47:34,000 Speaker 1: the way progress is really being made now by the 1782 01:47:34,080 --> 01:47:39,080 Speaker 1: big companies is they're doing something called genomic selection. And 1783 01:47:39,400 --> 01:47:41,040 Speaker 1: again we can get into a lot of diesels, but 1784 01:47:41,120 --> 01:47:44,320 Speaker 1: they're looking at the whole genome of the plants they're 1785 01:47:44,360 --> 01:47:48,479 Speaker 1: selecting and coming up with the best combinations that fit together. 1786 01:47:48,960 --> 01:47:51,880 Speaker 1: And it requires a lot of computer power, a lot 1787 01:47:51,960 --> 01:47:56,680 Speaker 1: of this whole thing about um, machine learning and and 1788 01:47:56,840 --> 01:47:59,519 Speaker 1: all that artificial intelligence has come up with the best ways. 1789 01:48:00,080 --> 01:48:04,479 Speaker 1: So plant breeding to get higher yields is happening because 1790 01:48:04,520 --> 01:48:09,160 Speaker 1: of high tech. But the new high tech is not transgenics. 1791 01:48:10,240 --> 01:48:15,599 Speaker 1: That's way back. So the you know, so when people say, oh, 1792 01:48:15,720 --> 01:48:17,280 Speaker 1: we're never going to feed the world unless we have 1793 01:48:17,360 --> 01:48:19,479 Speaker 1: genetic engineering, and say, well, what do you what do 1794 01:48:19,520 --> 01:48:21,880 Speaker 1: you mean by genetic engine You mean good plant breeding. 1795 01:48:23,680 --> 01:48:27,040 Speaker 1: Let's have good plant breeding, right, and so good plant 1796 01:48:27,080 --> 01:48:29,640 Speaker 1: breeding can do a lot, but it's no longer this 1797 01:48:29,880 --> 01:48:34,320 Speaker 1: narrow thing that happened that everybody was focused on, and 1798 01:48:34,439 --> 01:48:37,479 Speaker 1: this other stuff is going on, and again nobody knows 1799 01:48:37,560 --> 01:48:41,760 Speaker 1: about it. It's like the genetically engineered tobacco, right, it's 1800 01:48:41,800 --> 01:48:44,400 Speaker 1: in the background. It's it happened now, but this stuff 1801 01:48:44,479 --> 01:48:48,160 Speaker 1: is coming, and you know, for good or bad. I 1802 01:48:48,240 --> 01:48:49,800 Speaker 1: think a lot of the big companies are hiring a 1803 01:48:49,840 --> 01:48:52,519 Speaker 1: lot of computer people to help them with this stuff 1804 01:48:52,560 --> 01:48:54,320 Speaker 1: as opposed to people out in the field, because you 1805 01:48:54,439 --> 01:48:59,559 Speaker 1: can improve a plant without looking at it. There's another argument, 1806 01:48:59,680 --> 01:49:05,360 Speaker 1: another their pro gmo argument, and I keep using that's okay, 1807 01:49:05,400 --> 01:49:08,400 Speaker 1: we all know, we don't talk about is that from 1808 01:49:08,439 --> 01:49:13,000 Speaker 1: a conservation perspective? Is that I've heard people say from 1809 01:49:13,040 --> 01:49:18,400 Speaker 1: a wildlife conservation perspective, Um, they work better, they put 1810 01:49:18,479 --> 01:49:22,439 Speaker 1: off more bushels per acre, so it winds up being less. 1811 01:49:22,760 --> 01:49:26,479 Speaker 1: Land needs to be converted into monoculture. Agriculture to meet 1812 01:49:26,520 --> 01:49:31,479 Speaker 1: our needs because it's just more efficient. And if you, uh, look, 1813 01:49:31,560 --> 01:49:34,000 Speaker 1: if you're a duck hunter and that you and you're 1814 01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:37,120 Speaker 1: worried about the prairie pothole region, and when when grain 1815 01:49:37,200 --> 01:49:40,960 Speaker 1: prices are high, more of the prairie pothole region gets tilled, 1816 01:49:41,080 --> 01:49:44,000 Speaker 1: and it gets tilled closer to the pond's edge, and 1817 01:49:44,160 --> 01:49:48,519 Speaker 1: more duck habitat is lost. Um, why not solve that 1818 01:49:48,600 --> 01:49:51,840 Speaker 1: with more efficient agricultural systems so we have more ducks. 1819 01:49:52,240 --> 01:49:55,080 Speaker 1: That's another argument right. I like the efficiency argument and 1820 01:49:55,720 --> 01:49:59,599 Speaker 1: conserving land. But let's ask that question about what has 1821 01:49:59,720 --> 01:50:06,040 Speaker 1: jen engineering done so far since to increase yields of corn, 1822 01:50:06,200 --> 01:50:13,640 Speaker 1: soybean and cotton. I can a lot no, alright, so, 1823 01:50:13,960 --> 01:50:18,519 Speaker 1: so yields of corn per acre? Let me yeah, hold on, 1824 01:50:18,720 --> 01:50:20,720 Speaker 1: let me give you the deal here, right, Yeah, So 1825 01:50:20,880 --> 01:50:23,880 Speaker 1: Monsanto had an article published in a peer review journal 1826 01:50:23,920 --> 01:50:26,560 Speaker 1: showing how this has been increasing. That so when we 1827 01:50:26,640 --> 01:50:28,519 Speaker 1: were doing the six d page study for the National 1828 01:50:28,520 --> 01:50:31,120 Speaker 1: Academy of Sciences, right, we got down on it, right. 1829 01:50:31,160 --> 01:50:34,160 Speaker 1: We looked carefully at the data, same data they used, 1830 01:50:34,680 --> 01:50:36,960 Speaker 1: all right, And if you look at yields of corn, 1831 01:50:37,280 --> 01:50:41,800 Speaker 1: soybean and cotton over time, right, and we were looking 1832 01:50:41,880 --> 01:50:45,720 Speaker 1: from nineteen eighty to two thousand fifteen. I think it 1833 01:50:45,920 --> 01:50:49,519 Speaker 1: was where we ended to look at what's happening to yields. 1834 01:50:49,960 --> 01:50:53,320 Speaker 1: They're going up, you know, this fluctuation from year to year, 1835 01:50:53,439 --> 01:50:57,760 Speaker 1: like like per unit of space, like per per acre yield. 1836 01:50:57,920 --> 01:51:00,840 Speaker 1: Yield per acre for cotton, soybean, cotton have been going 1837 01:51:01,000 --> 01:51:03,599 Speaker 1: up since nineteen eight They've been going up since nineteen thirty. 1838 01:51:03,680 --> 01:51:05,360 Speaker 1: But I mean we were looking at the data as 1839 01:51:05,479 --> 01:51:08,000 Speaker 1: was months out off about nineteen eighty and you see 1840 01:51:08,040 --> 01:51:10,720 Speaker 1: the yields going up on all three crops. And then 1841 01:51:11,840 --> 01:51:14,560 Speaker 1: happens and all those crops are now genetically engineered in 1842 01:51:14,600 --> 01:51:16,960 Speaker 1: the US. Not every one of them, but most of them. 1843 01:51:17,160 --> 01:51:21,400 Speaker 1: And you ask, well, the the yields going up faster 1844 01:51:21,600 --> 01:51:27,400 Speaker 1: because I spiked, Yeah, not at all. Really, that's the data. 1845 01:51:27,600 --> 01:51:32,000 Speaker 1: Then I can show you that line, that is a 1846 01:51:32,160 --> 01:51:36,400 Speaker 1: straight line. Now some people will say, so what did 1847 01:51:36,520 --> 01:51:38,720 Speaker 1: we gain? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So some people say, oh, well, 1848 01:51:38,760 --> 01:51:40,720 Speaker 1: if we have climate change and all of that, if 1849 01:51:40,800 --> 01:51:43,200 Speaker 1: we didn't have genetic engineering, would be going down. But 1850 01:51:43,280 --> 01:51:46,799 Speaker 1: if you look at wheat or oats, remember not genetically unshared, 1851 01:51:46,800 --> 01:51:49,000 Speaker 1: those yields are still also going up the same way. 1852 01:51:49,280 --> 01:51:51,719 Speaker 1: So there really isn't the evidence in the United States 1853 01:51:52,240 --> 01:51:55,040 Speaker 1: so far. I'm not saying it can't happen. People have 1854 01:51:55,120 --> 01:51:58,880 Speaker 1: been trying since the nineteen eighties to increase the efficiency 1855 01:51:58,920 --> 01:52:03,040 Speaker 1: of photosynthesis, but it's a hard problem. They haven't solved it. 1856 01:52:04,120 --> 01:52:06,439 Speaker 1: So let me put I want the same thing. Maybe 1857 01:52:06,439 --> 01:52:09,519 Speaker 1: you guys got into this or not. If you looked 1858 01:52:09,600 --> 01:52:16,280 Speaker 1: at amphibians that or pollinators or whatever the hell monarchy waterflies, 1859 01:52:16,280 --> 01:52:19,799 Speaker 1: I don't know, And you look at like amphibian counts 1860 01:52:19,920 --> 01:52:29,960 Speaker 1: from adjacent wetlands over from fifteen in does that pivot 1861 01:52:30,080 --> 01:52:34,000 Speaker 1: some way? Good? Good question. Okay, So there I can 1862 01:52:34,080 --> 01:52:38,799 Speaker 1: give you another answer, not for those amphibians, but for insects. Okay, 1863 01:52:39,600 --> 01:52:45,080 Speaker 1: So by not using as much insecticide, there's more bio 1864 01:52:45,120 --> 01:52:48,760 Speaker 1: diversity of insects in the non you know, in the 1865 01:52:48,880 --> 01:52:51,519 Speaker 1: GMO fields than in the fields that are not GMO 1866 01:52:51,600 --> 01:52:53,519 Speaker 1: that are spread with the insects side of course, right, 1867 01:52:54,240 --> 01:52:57,320 Speaker 1: I mean that that is there. So so you are 1868 01:52:57,680 --> 01:52:59,599 Speaker 1: helping in the way of concertion. But then there's an 1869 01:52:59,600 --> 01:53:03,040 Speaker 1: efferent different question here about you wanting to keep your 1870 01:53:03,120 --> 01:53:08,080 Speaker 1: little areas that are natural from going into farming. So well, 1871 01:53:08,080 --> 01:53:11,560 Speaker 1: I'm good, and I build this genetically engineered crop that 1872 01:53:11,760 --> 01:53:16,200 Speaker 1: is highly tolerant or it's fair. It's fair, it's fair, 1873 01:53:16,560 --> 01:53:19,720 Speaker 1: like prayer po whole region whatever. Sure, I would like 1874 01:53:19,800 --> 01:53:23,679 Speaker 1: to I would like to retain as much waterfowl nesting 1875 01:53:23,760 --> 01:53:27,240 Speaker 1: habitat as possible. So I all I wanted to bring 1876 01:53:27,320 --> 01:53:31,439 Speaker 1: up is if some scientists uses genetic engineering in a 1877 01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:36,000 Speaker 1: way to make those areas commercially useful, because now they 1878 01:53:36,040 --> 01:53:38,880 Speaker 1: have a plant that will survive better and also produce 1879 01:53:38,960 --> 01:53:41,479 Speaker 1: something for humans so we could have more meat and 1880 01:53:41,600 --> 01:53:45,840 Speaker 1: not worry about efficiency of eating being a vegetarian. Right, 1881 01:53:46,400 --> 01:53:48,680 Speaker 1: I mean, so I guess what I what we get to? 1882 01:53:48,880 --> 01:53:50,880 Speaker 1: You know, of course I'm with this Genetic Engineering and 1883 01:53:50,960 --> 01:53:54,160 Speaker 1: Society Center, you know, to keep asking these questions as 1884 01:53:54,240 --> 01:53:56,760 Speaker 1: deeply as we can to ask Wait a minute, you 1885 01:53:56,840 --> 01:53:58,680 Speaker 1: have a nice story, but is that the only way 1886 01:53:58,720 --> 01:54:02,160 Speaker 1: the story unfolds? Where it could unfold in a different way. 1887 01:54:02,200 --> 01:54:04,680 Speaker 1: I think what we find is that we need a 1888 01:54:04,840 --> 01:54:07,760 Speaker 1: lot of brains to be thinking about how it's going 1889 01:54:07,800 --> 01:54:09,519 Speaker 1: to be used, not whether we can make it. You know, 1890 01:54:09,880 --> 01:54:12,479 Speaker 1: I'm sure you have examples as in hunting, right. You know, 1891 01:54:12,560 --> 01:54:15,559 Speaker 1: you can make something, it's how you use it that determines, 1892 01:54:15,880 --> 01:54:19,160 Speaker 1: you know, whether it's an ethical way animals and stuff 1893 01:54:19,200 --> 01:54:22,920 Speaker 1: like that. So I think that's important. Let's say we're hiking, yeah, 1894 01:54:23,120 --> 01:54:27,000 Speaker 1: and you you fall off a cliff there's no chance 1895 01:54:27,040 --> 01:54:31,680 Speaker 1: of surviving, and I yelled down, Um, so are GMOs 1896 01:54:31,760 --> 01:54:37,040 Speaker 1: good or bad? What would you yell back? Yes? And no? 1897 01:54:43,080 --> 01:54:46,200 Speaker 1: But I mean that's the deal, right? Yeah? I had 1898 01:54:46,280 --> 01:54:49,840 Speaker 1: that with some students, right, they had this, So let's 1899 01:54:49,840 --> 01:54:57,120 Speaker 1: come to the chase, right right? Huh? So I would 1900 01:54:57,200 --> 01:55:00,360 Speaker 1: would say anybody who says to me should have a 1901 01:55:00,440 --> 01:55:04,160 Speaker 1: moratorium on genetic engineering research. I think such a more 1902 01:55:04,320 --> 01:55:07,920 Speaker 1: term would be a very bad idea, right, But I 1903 01:55:08,040 --> 01:55:10,240 Speaker 1: think that we need to be very careful in the 1904 01:55:10,280 --> 01:55:12,320 Speaker 1: way we use these things. And I think there are 1905 01:55:12,360 --> 01:55:16,560 Speaker 1: examples of these where if it's not interesting. Example, in 1906 01:55:16,720 --> 01:55:20,680 Speaker 1: in Africa, Burkino Fosso is the first country that said, hey, 1907 01:55:20,800 --> 01:55:23,880 Speaker 1: bring me genetically engineered cotton that has that BT and 1908 01:55:24,040 --> 01:55:26,720 Speaker 1: that has that protein that it kills caterpillars, and we 1909 01:55:26,760 --> 01:55:29,240 Speaker 1: won't be able to won't be using as much insecticide, 1910 01:55:29,240 --> 01:55:33,160 Speaker 1: which we can't afford anyway. Right, So they get this 1911 01:55:33,280 --> 01:55:36,680 Speaker 1: genetically engineered cotton, they start growing it, and they produce 1912 01:55:37,320 --> 01:55:41,040 Speaker 1: more per hectare then they would have without it, and 1913 01:55:41,120 --> 01:55:43,880 Speaker 1: they used less insecticide and a since you think the 1914 01:55:43,920 --> 01:55:46,880 Speaker 1: farmers are really happy about that, right, and everybody should 1915 01:55:46,880 --> 01:55:49,160 Speaker 1: be happy about it, except that they didn't breed it, right. 1916 01:55:49,200 --> 01:55:51,280 Speaker 1: They brought over sort of an American variety that they 1917 01:55:51,360 --> 01:55:55,080 Speaker 1: back crossed into the cross sit into the African type. 1918 01:55:55,280 --> 01:55:59,000 Speaker 1: The African type in the Franco African countries produces longer 1919 01:56:00,040 --> 01:56:04,200 Speaker 1: fread to count, right, and so they were producing more, 1920 01:56:04,400 --> 01:56:08,280 Speaker 1: but it wasn't of the quality that was needed, so 1921 01:56:08,440 --> 01:56:11,080 Speaker 1: it sat on the market and the country then banned 1922 01:56:11,160 --> 01:56:13,640 Speaker 1: it again. Right, So it's it's how you do it. 1923 01:56:13,720 --> 01:56:15,120 Speaker 1: It would have been a great thing if they had 1924 01:56:15,160 --> 01:56:18,160 Speaker 1: done it right. And other examples had a lot of 1925 01:56:18,280 --> 01:56:24,360 Speaker 1: shitty cotton a lot of Americans. But but I just 1926 01:56:24,440 --> 01:56:26,840 Speaker 1: want to bring another really interesting example to me is 1927 01:56:26,840 --> 01:56:32,839 Speaker 1: about corn. Is that actually using traditional breeding they Jeanette, 1928 01:56:32,920 --> 01:56:36,520 Speaker 1: they bread corn to be more drought tolerant, and who 1929 01:56:36,560 --> 01:56:39,560 Speaker 1: could be against drought toners like mother and apple pie, right, 1930 01:56:40,320 --> 01:56:43,880 Speaker 1: But what it was interesting was that when they gave 1931 01:56:43,960 --> 01:56:46,400 Speaker 1: it to farmers to farm, and you think, oh, this 1932 01:56:46,520 --> 01:56:49,000 Speaker 1: is gonna be good because it's gonna lower the impact 1933 01:56:49,080 --> 01:56:53,280 Speaker 1: of drought. But there's a spacing that most of your 1934 01:56:53,400 --> 01:56:55,600 Speaker 1: you know, some of your listeners know when they're planting corn, 1935 01:56:55,680 --> 01:56:58,040 Speaker 1: they planted a certain spacing. But if you plant the 1936 01:56:58,120 --> 01:57:00,600 Speaker 1: corn too close, you get to a point in a 1937 01:57:00,720 --> 01:57:03,920 Speaker 1: normal year, you cause drought to happen because the corn 1938 01:57:03,960 --> 01:57:05,920 Speaker 1: plants are just sucking up all the order. So there's 1939 01:57:05,920 --> 01:57:09,400 Speaker 1: a certain optimal distance. Well, if you have drought tolerant corn, 1940 01:57:09,440 --> 01:57:12,280 Speaker 1: you can plan it closer in a good year and 1941 01:57:12,360 --> 01:57:16,080 Speaker 1: get higher yield and then the field though still drought sensitive. 1942 01:57:17,360 --> 01:57:21,120 Speaker 1: Is it making sense right? Each plant is drought tolerant, 1943 01:57:21,160 --> 01:57:24,280 Speaker 1: but it's the way the farmer plants it. So this 1944 01:57:24,440 --> 01:57:26,920 Speaker 1: is why yes and no, is that we have to 1945 01:57:27,000 --> 01:57:30,800 Speaker 1: figure out what is our goal with this genetically engineered stuff. 1946 01:57:30,800 --> 01:57:33,920 Speaker 1: You know, is it for more sustainability of specific farmers 1947 01:57:34,040 --> 01:57:36,920 Speaker 1: or global issues. I don't know that that's a bad 1948 01:57:37,040 --> 01:57:40,160 Speaker 1: thing that there that you're having higher yields and it's 1949 01:57:40,160 --> 01:57:43,360 Speaker 1: still sensitive to drought because we do have crop insurance 1950 01:57:43,400 --> 01:57:45,960 Speaker 1: in the U S. It's underline. And also you're talking 1951 01:57:45,960 --> 01:57:50,160 Speaker 1: about it, you know global economy where wealth too bad 1952 01:57:50,280 --> 01:57:52,760 Speaker 1: for Iowa? But man am I making a killing in 1953 01:57:52,840 --> 01:57:55,520 Speaker 1: North Carolina because they haven't a problem. Uh you know, 1954 01:57:55,760 --> 01:57:58,960 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there's all I'm trying to get 1955 01:57:59,000 --> 01:58:00,520 Speaker 1: out here is I don't have an So it's it's 1956 01:58:00,560 --> 01:58:03,720 Speaker 1: a in the system. It's a whole system that you're 1957 01:58:03,760 --> 01:58:06,280 Speaker 1: dealing with. So when we talk about what are the 1958 01:58:06,360 --> 01:58:09,080 Speaker 1: issues with GMOs, and this is this whole thing about 1959 01:58:09,320 --> 01:58:12,680 Speaker 1: our group, the Genetic Engineering Society Center, is to sort 1960 01:58:12,720 --> 01:58:15,680 Speaker 1: of dig a little deeper. And it's not just about 1961 01:58:16,120 --> 01:58:20,080 Speaker 1: the genetic insurance any technology as they're coming on. We 1962 01:58:20,160 --> 01:58:22,160 Speaker 1: have to think about them more in terms of what 1963 01:58:22,280 --> 01:58:26,240 Speaker 1: the repercussions are. I don't. I'm not, you know, against risk. 1964 01:58:26,320 --> 01:58:28,400 Speaker 1: I mean, we always have to take risk. You always 1965 01:58:28,440 --> 01:58:30,720 Speaker 1: have to answer ask that question if you don't use GMOs, 1966 01:58:30,880 --> 01:58:32,880 Speaker 1: are we're gonna be able to feed the world? Right? 1967 01:58:33,160 --> 01:58:34,800 Speaker 1: So you better have an answer to that about how 1968 01:58:34,840 --> 01:58:36,640 Speaker 1: you're going to do that if you don't use GMOs. 1969 01:58:36,720 --> 01:58:38,760 Speaker 1: And I would say that there are some places where 1970 01:58:38,800 --> 01:58:42,480 Speaker 1: you really GMOs have decreased the amount of pest side 1971 01:58:42,600 --> 01:58:47,160 Speaker 1: used by farmers in um, certain in certain countries in 1972 01:58:47,240 --> 01:58:51,160 Speaker 1: South Africa's an example where decreasing pest side use meant 1973 01:58:51,240 --> 01:58:53,280 Speaker 1: that fewer farmers round up in the hospital at the 1974 01:58:53,360 --> 01:58:57,440 Speaker 1: end of the season. Well that's the safety of GMOs. 1975 01:58:57,600 --> 01:59:00,880 Speaker 1: That's interesting, And I said, I'd come I should make 1976 01:59:00,920 --> 01:59:05,640 Speaker 1: this one comment. Uh, there's a group called Simplot in Idaho. Right, 1977 01:59:05,720 --> 01:59:08,000 Speaker 1: they breed potatoes. Well, they bread a potato that has 1978 01:59:08,080 --> 01:59:14,080 Speaker 1: lower acrylamide in it. Acrylamide when you fry your potatoes 1979 01:59:14,520 --> 01:59:17,920 Speaker 1: or toast your bread, turns into something that is considered 1980 01:59:17,920 --> 01:59:23,600 Speaker 1: a probable carcinogen. So those potatoes are possibly less Carson 1981 01:59:23,640 --> 01:59:27,320 Speaker 1: and genetic if you're eating French fries. Yeah, but then again, 1982 01:59:27,360 --> 01:59:33,120 Speaker 1: you shouldn't eat French fries. Right, Your simplot gotta start 1983 01:59:33,760 --> 01:59:37,120 Speaker 1: you hear that story? Simplot was his due Jr. Simplot, 1984 01:59:37,680 --> 01:59:42,080 Speaker 1: and it was during the depression. Teachers were being paid 1985 01:59:43,040 --> 01:59:47,880 Speaker 1: with these bonds and Idaho, okay, they're being paid with 1986 01:59:48,000 --> 01:59:50,280 Speaker 1: bonds and the bonds had to mature over some period 1987 01:59:50,320 --> 01:59:55,960 Speaker 1: of time. It was like a deferred payment. Simplot. He 1988 01:59:58,640 --> 02:00:02,400 Speaker 1: wanted to like, I'm not sure about the sequence, but 1989 02:00:02,440 --> 02:00:05,720 Speaker 1: basically started buying these bonds and people fifty cents on 1990 02:00:05,800 --> 02:00:11,280 Speaker 1: the dollar because they need money, gets himself a bunch 1991 02:00:11,360 --> 02:00:16,560 Speaker 1: of pigs piglets, and takes him out in the desert, 1992 02:00:16,920 --> 02:00:19,840 Speaker 1: gets a big cauldron, takes him out in the desert 1993 02:00:20,080 --> 02:00:25,240 Speaker 1: and starts shooting wild horses to fatten those hogs. That's 1994 02:00:25,280 --> 02:00:28,840 Speaker 1: how he got to start an egg And that's Simplot today. 1995 02:00:29,520 --> 02:00:31,800 Speaker 1: My goodness, Well I didn't know that story. I pad 1996 02:00:31,840 --> 02:00:37,360 Speaker 1: toxic plasma risk aversion. That's how he got his That's 1997 02:00:37,400 --> 02:00:41,040 Speaker 1: not that's what started that. Yeah, my buddy's kids just 1998 02:00:41,080 --> 02:00:43,680 Speaker 1: want to work for Simplot. I bet he don't even 1999 02:00:43,680 --> 02:00:50,720 Speaker 1: know that. Yeah, well the world is complicated, so I think, 2000 02:00:50,800 --> 02:00:54,240 Speaker 1: you know, taking a certain amount of step back and ask. 2001 02:00:54,320 --> 02:00:56,120 Speaker 1: You know, when somebody gives you these lines, you know, 2002 02:00:56,200 --> 02:00:58,600 Speaker 1: these simple answers. GMO is a good, GMOs are bad, 2003 02:00:59,160 --> 02:01:02,360 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. It's it's harder to when 2004 02:01:02,400 --> 02:01:06,280 Speaker 1: you jump off a click. Okay, they're okay to eat. 2005 02:01:06,840 --> 02:01:09,360 Speaker 1: So I think the ones that have been tested and 2006 02:01:09,400 --> 02:01:11,920 Speaker 1: are on the market today, I would agree that those 2007 02:01:11,960 --> 02:01:13,720 Speaker 1: are fine to eat, and I eat them all the time. 2008 02:01:14,480 --> 02:01:17,080 Speaker 1: I probably have eaten more GMO sweet corn than most 2009 02:01:17,120 --> 02:01:20,640 Speaker 1: people because we were growing that stuff. So I didn't mind. 2010 02:01:20,920 --> 02:01:25,000 Speaker 1: I I you know, for ethics or health or combination. 2011 02:01:25,480 --> 02:01:29,000 Speaker 1: I told you I was a hippie, so I was well. 2012 02:01:29,080 --> 02:01:31,760 Speaker 1: I was. I was hitchhike and cross country wound up. 2013 02:01:31,800 --> 02:01:36,720 Speaker 1: But somebody's farm out in Nevada, and he wouldn't need anything. 2014 02:01:36,760 --> 02:01:39,960 Speaker 1: He didn't kill himself. I thought, now that made sense 2015 02:01:40,040 --> 02:01:42,720 Speaker 1: to me. I'm not gonna eat anything less kill it myself. 2016 02:01:43,920 --> 02:01:47,320 Speaker 1: That's how I started. And I got a bunch of chickens, 2017 02:01:47,640 --> 02:01:50,200 Speaker 1: and after they stopped laying eggs, I couldn't kill the suckers. 2018 02:01:50,480 --> 02:01:52,120 Speaker 1: So that was the end of it, and I became 2019 02:01:52,160 --> 02:01:54,040 Speaker 1: a vegetarian. How many years ago was that when I 2020 02:01:54,120 --> 02:01:58,240 Speaker 1: was nineteen? No kid, yeah now now now I'm just 2021 02:01:58,360 --> 02:02:00,600 Speaker 1: a vegetarian, right, I don't think about that every day. 2022 02:02:00,680 --> 02:02:02,280 Speaker 1: Oh no, no, I'm not gonna let me ask you. 2023 02:02:02,720 --> 02:02:04,160 Speaker 1: Let me ask you this one because I was we 2024 02:02:04,240 --> 02:02:06,200 Speaker 1: got my friends, got some kids that are vegetarians, and 2025 02:02:06,240 --> 02:02:08,120 Speaker 1: I was messing with them because they always eat marshmallows. 2026 02:02:08,600 --> 02:02:15,680 Speaker 1: Neat marshmallows. No oh wait, wait wait, vegetarian, vegetarian eat marshmallows. 2027 02:02:15,680 --> 02:02:18,840 Speaker 1: I'm a vegetarian who eats more shows on campfires because 2028 02:02:18,880 --> 02:02:25,720 Speaker 1: that's natural. Yeah, oh man, you guys got anymore? This 2029 02:02:25,800 --> 02:02:29,000 Speaker 1: has been great. This is what I knew, what happened. Yeah, 2030 02:02:30,600 --> 02:02:32,720 Speaker 1: you know what this is. This tells you the power 2031 02:02:32,800 --> 02:02:35,560 Speaker 1: of krint. I told crim to find someone said I 2032 02:02:35,600 --> 02:02:41,560 Speaker 1: don't want like an ideologue? G m O ideologue? Did 2033 02:02:41,680 --> 02:02:44,400 Speaker 1: she say, Steve, He's gonna want to know what that 2034 02:02:44,560 --> 02:02:49,520 Speaker 1: word means. Like a person driven, a person driven by 2035 02:02:49,840 --> 02:02:58,400 Speaker 1: a sort of like severely drawn perspective. Would happen ilogue ideologue? Yeah? 2036 02:02:58,560 --> 02:03:02,200 Speaker 1: Like a person who's you know, full of fired brimstone. 2037 02:03:04,320 --> 02:03:07,320 Speaker 1: I've got a question. So in Wisconsin, if you look 2038 02:03:07,360 --> 02:03:10,680 Speaker 1: at a lot of these corn fields, they all look 2039 02:03:10,720 --> 02:03:13,400 Speaker 1: the same. And some of these little farms where I 2040 02:03:13,480 --> 02:03:18,560 Speaker 1: grew up are organic dairy farms and they have, you know, 2041 02:03:18,840 --> 02:03:22,640 Speaker 1: a hundred two hundred acres, and their corn that they're 2042 02:03:22,680 --> 02:03:26,680 Speaker 1: feeding their cows looks exactly the same. Is the neighbor 2043 02:03:26,800 --> 02:03:29,880 Speaker 1: next door who does not have an organic dairy farm. 2044 02:03:31,120 --> 02:03:34,440 Speaker 1: Is that corn that those because it like looks exactly 2045 02:03:34,520 --> 02:03:39,960 Speaker 1: the same? Probably gmo corn. Well it could be, of course, 2046 02:03:40,120 --> 02:03:42,320 Speaker 1: I can't tell you. But you could have two fields 2047 02:03:42,400 --> 02:03:44,920 Speaker 1: next to each other, one being GMO and one being 2048 02:03:45,000 --> 02:03:47,440 Speaker 1: non gmo, and they will look the same. So let's 2049 02:03:47,480 --> 02:03:50,040 Speaker 1: go back to when we said, how do you get 2050 02:03:50,080 --> 02:03:55,520 Speaker 1: it so that you could have this SPT this protein 2051 02:03:56,000 --> 02:03:58,360 Speaker 1: in the corn and not have the insects adapt to it. 2052 02:03:58,760 --> 02:04:00,640 Speaker 1: The way that that would be done is by having 2053 02:04:00,720 --> 02:04:03,600 Speaker 1: the BT corn that you know that produces that protein 2054 02:04:03,720 --> 02:04:07,920 Speaker 1: and the non BT corn. Right, So, farmers, even if 2055 02:04:07,960 --> 02:04:10,680 Speaker 1: you're a conventional farmer in the Midwest, many of them 2056 02:04:10,760 --> 02:04:14,600 Speaker 1: plant that refuge. Some planted to ones that are herbicide tolerant, 2057 02:04:14,640 --> 02:04:17,960 Speaker 1: but some planted to non gmo. So the companies have 2058 02:04:18,200 --> 02:04:23,400 Speaker 1: decreased the effort they put into producing new non GMO varieties, 2059 02:04:23,760 --> 02:04:27,200 Speaker 1: so the yield on a non GMO variety has become 2060 02:04:27,240 --> 02:04:29,600 Speaker 1: a little bit less than what you get from a GMO. 2061 02:04:30,120 --> 02:04:32,920 Speaker 1: Forget about the insects and anything, just because the breeding 2062 02:04:32,960 --> 02:04:36,400 Speaker 1: effort isn't is as great. But they typically are are 2063 02:04:36,520 --> 02:04:39,040 Speaker 1: not that different. So yes, you could be looking at it. 2064 02:04:39,280 --> 02:04:42,000 Speaker 1: A breeder, you know, as great eyes were looking at 2065 02:04:42,040 --> 02:04:45,320 Speaker 1: the differences, might see it, but you probably wouldn't. I mean, 2066 02:04:45,400 --> 02:04:49,000 Speaker 1: the differences among varieties about hybrids is greater than the 2067 02:04:49,080 --> 02:04:52,760 Speaker 1: difference between the GMO and the non GMO. I know, 2068 02:04:53,280 --> 02:04:55,240 Speaker 1: go ahead, you gotta follow up. I got a question. 2069 02:04:55,280 --> 02:05:00,320 Speaker 1: I got a question for Phil. Yeah, when you're shopping 2070 02:05:00,360 --> 02:05:02,880 Speaker 1: for groceries, do you are you like when you're picking 2071 02:05:02,960 --> 02:05:05,320 Speaker 1: cereal out? Are you keeping an eyeball out on GMO? 2072 02:05:06,320 --> 02:05:10,040 Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, I mean I'm glad you's gonna 2073 02:05:10,040 --> 02:05:11,640 Speaker 1: see if I was. I was looking to see if 2074 02:05:11,680 --> 02:05:13,480 Speaker 1: this has changed your mind about it. I do occasionally 2075 02:05:13,480 --> 02:05:15,080 Speaker 1: shop at the co op Steve, and I've got a 2076 02:05:15,120 --> 02:05:19,840 Speaker 1: great cat psychologist if we need one. There's just so 2077 02:05:19,920 --> 02:05:24,000 Speaker 1: many buzzwords these days that people are people are are 2078 02:05:24,160 --> 02:05:29,240 Speaker 1: afraid of, uh, you know, like GMO, gluten, MSG and 2079 02:05:29,360 --> 02:05:32,520 Speaker 1: for various reasons. Uh. So it's it's nice to sit 2080 02:05:32,560 --> 02:05:34,960 Speaker 1: down and like and actually just throughout the facts and 2081 02:05:35,360 --> 02:05:37,040 Speaker 1: have you you know, like Steve said, you're falling off 2082 02:05:37,080 --> 02:05:40,880 Speaker 1: a cliff. I still don't have the answer for you. 2083 02:05:41,640 --> 02:05:43,960 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's because it's it's just to the point 2084 02:05:44,000 --> 02:05:45,640 Speaker 1: where you can look at a can of mountain dew 2085 02:05:45,680 --> 02:05:48,080 Speaker 1: and it says gluten free and it's like, yeah, no, ship, 2086 02:05:48,720 --> 02:05:51,560 Speaker 1: just like like that's how that's how these companies have 2087 02:05:51,680 --> 02:05:53,840 Speaker 1: to label things these days because they're people are afraid 2088 02:05:53,840 --> 02:05:56,200 Speaker 1: of things and they don't know why. I don't know why. 2089 02:05:56,280 --> 02:05:59,120 Speaker 1: And they have the money to pay the extra two cents. Right, 2090 02:05:59,600 --> 02:06:02,440 Speaker 1: it's not such a big deal and whatever if Company 2091 02:06:02,520 --> 02:06:05,440 Speaker 1: A is doing it, company they all jump on you. 2092 02:06:06,680 --> 02:06:09,640 Speaker 1: But you're gonna ask something else. No, No, I'm okay, 2093 02:06:09,920 --> 02:06:13,440 Speaker 1: Well no I don't know what was it. Well, I 2094 02:06:13,600 --> 02:06:18,440 Speaker 1: was just saying like like all that all that corn 2095 02:06:18,840 --> 02:06:22,600 Speaker 1: is modified over time, no matter what. So like I 2096 02:06:22,720 --> 02:06:25,800 Speaker 1: just don't quite I don't quite get it, you know, 2097 02:06:26,480 --> 02:06:30,840 Speaker 1: like in a way. So so it's become a big 2098 02:06:30,920 --> 02:06:34,760 Speaker 1: deal because of the pressure on it. Right, Yeah, so 2099 02:06:34,840 --> 02:06:38,000 Speaker 1: you have white corn and yellow corn, right, Yeah, they're 2100 02:06:38,120 --> 02:06:44,480 Speaker 1: more different. Yeah, you're married, Fred No, No wait, wait, 2101 02:06:44,520 --> 02:06:50,120 Speaker 1: a minute. Wait, that's it, you're out. Yeah, I get 2102 02:06:50,200 --> 02:06:51,840 Speaker 1: to talk to someone always might not want to know. 2103 02:06:52,400 --> 02:06:54,280 Speaker 1: I know that we've covered it, and we've had some 2104 02:06:54,360 --> 02:06:57,800 Speaker 1: people right in with the good answers, but I think 2105 02:06:57,840 --> 02:07:00,720 Speaker 1: we should hear Fred's take on it. But like, I 2106 02:07:01,040 --> 02:07:04,520 Speaker 1: think the question around, if we have all this power 2107 02:07:05,040 --> 02:07:07,720 Speaker 1: to just like mess around and make things like better 2108 02:07:07,840 --> 02:07:11,000 Speaker 1: to grow, how come no one's doing that just to 2109 02:07:11,160 --> 02:07:16,920 Speaker 1: make my strawberries always taste like fish. Did you ever 2110 02:07:17,000 --> 02:07:20,640 Speaker 1: get around with the child strawberry? Yeah, so that was 2111 02:07:20,720 --> 02:07:24,280 Speaker 1: another thing. Your strawberries taste like what? Just like the 2112 02:07:24,320 --> 02:07:26,680 Speaker 1: strawberries out of my garden or for whatever. I just 2113 02:07:26,720 --> 02:07:28,840 Speaker 1: feel like in general, out of all the regions I've 2114 02:07:28,960 --> 02:07:32,400 Speaker 1: lived right now, I lived in the worst region ever 2115 02:07:33,200 --> 02:07:36,920 Speaker 1: for like the quality of produce. I get, everything just 2116 02:07:37,160 --> 02:07:40,480 Speaker 1: taste like bland. Just give me some good berries. I 2117 02:07:40,560 --> 02:07:43,240 Speaker 1: can't tell if it's a You might I mean, if 2118 02:07:43,280 --> 02:07:46,280 Speaker 1: you if it wasn't for texture and and looks inside, 2119 02:07:46,320 --> 02:07:49,360 Speaker 1: you might confuse the asparagus with the Brussels sprouts, or 2120 02:07:49,360 --> 02:07:51,600 Speaker 1: the asparagus with the green bean. I mean, everything just 2121 02:07:51,640 --> 02:07:54,240 Speaker 1: seems to be just there. That's all this whole thing started, too, 2122 02:07:54,360 --> 02:07:57,600 Speaker 1: is that that Steve was talking about growing strawberries outside 2123 02:07:57,640 --> 02:07:59,600 Speaker 1: his house in Seattle and how they tasted so good, 2124 02:07:59,800 --> 02:08:02,120 Speaker 1: and you can go to the grocery store and things 2125 02:08:02,200 --> 02:08:07,160 Speaker 1: just kind of taste bland, and you go to the 2126 02:08:07,200 --> 02:08:09,240 Speaker 1: farmer stand there and all I do is I eat 2127 02:08:09,280 --> 02:08:12,520 Speaker 1: tomatoes and the water mills and all that great produced here. 2128 02:08:12,760 --> 02:08:14,840 Speaker 1: But I haven't had a good tomato in Montana since 2129 02:08:14,840 --> 02:08:16,600 Speaker 1: I moved here. But yeah, we had a we had 2130 02:08:16,640 --> 02:08:20,760 Speaker 1: a produce, we had a produced supplier. Well, I want 2131 02:08:20,760 --> 02:08:23,240 Speaker 1: to interject my own and say that I could win 2132 02:08:23,280 --> 02:08:26,280 Speaker 1: the county fair with the strawberries I'm growing right now, Okay, 2133 02:08:26,840 --> 02:08:29,840 Speaker 1: but produce supplier rolled in. And he was saying, because 2134 02:08:29,840 --> 02:08:31,200 Speaker 1: we were talking about that, and he was saying, the 2135 02:08:31,360 --> 02:08:38,560 Speaker 1: industry has optimized for shelf life and visual appeal. He's like, 2136 02:08:38,720 --> 02:08:45,840 Speaker 1: you put a big, gass, shiny, waxy apple that's bland 2137 02:08:45,920 --> 02:08:52,120 Speaker 1: and flavor next to a superb apple that's like blemished, smaller. 2138 02:08:52,440 --> 02:08:55,360 Speaker 1: It's colors aren't his vibrant. They're just gonna pick up 2139 02:08:55,360 --> 02:08:57,080 Speaker 1: the big shiny one. Yeah, I know we were putting 2140 02:08:57,080 --> 02:09:02,040 Speaker 1: a b And also, taste is subjective, but Fred, I 2141 02:09:02,040 --> 02:09:04,120 Speaker 1: don't know if if you can touch on that at all, 2142 02:09:04,280 --> 02:09:07,440 Speaker 1: Like you, are there any studies about how GMO affects 2143 02:09:07,640 --> 02:09:10,920 Speaker 1: the flavor of something or I I don't have not 2144 02:09:11,280 --> 02:09:14,440 Speaker 1: people have studied that and not seen an effect on 2145 02:09:15,040 --> 02:09:18,160 Speaker 1: the flavor of these things that are not flavorful to 2146 02:09:18,240 --> 02:09:19,960 Speaker 1: start with. So this was the whole thing. One of 2147 02:09:20,040 --> 02:09:25,000 Speaker 1: the first products was a flavor savor tomato and you 2148 02:09:25,080 --> 02:09:29,560 Speaker 1: can look at it, remember that term. Okay, so this 2149 02:09:29,760 --> 02:09:32,960 Speaker 1: is a great story. I mean, these these folks were academics, 2150 02:09:33,320 --> 02:09:36,000 Speaker 1: I think, I think you see Davis, and they made 2151 02:09:36,040 --> 02:09:40,800 Speaker 1: this tomato that would stay good on your shelf. So 2152 02:09:40,960 --> 02:09:43,160 Speaker 1: that means that you could pick them when they were 2153 02:09:43,200 --> 02:09:45,520 Speaker 1: closer to being ready, you know, so that you wouldn't 2154 02:09:45,560 --> 02:09:48,800 Speaker 1: pick them so green. So the idea was you would 2155 02:09:48,840 --> 02:09:53,800 Speaker 1: save the flavor that you had in that tomato. They 2156 02:09:53,880 --> 02:09:57,600 Speaker 1: were very careful to advertise that they were genetically engineered. 2157 02:09:57,760 --> 02:09:59,800 Speaker 1: They went through all of the testing. They were not. 2158 02:10:00,120 --> 02:10:03,480 Speaker 1: They were genetically so they went through all of the 2159 02:10:03,560 --> 02:10:06,800 Speaker 1: regulations to make sure everything was okay. But the marketing 2160 02:10:06,880 --> 02:10:10,040 Speaker 1: didn't work and the whole thing fell apart. And there 2161 02:10:10,160 --> 02:10:12,640 Speaker 1: is a great film that anybody could probably find on 2162 02:10:12,760 --> 02:10:16,640 Speaker 1: YouTube about the labor Saver tomato and what happened with that. 2163 02:10:17,480 --> 02:10:20,040 Speaker 1: But that was a great example of you know, the 2164 02:10:20,160 --> 02:10:23,480 Speaker 1: first things being tried was this little for your tomato. 2165 02:10:24,000 --> 02:10:26,720 Speaker 1: But now there definitely are people who are trying to 2166 02:10:26,920 --> 02:10:30,040 Speaker 1: use regular breeding things, you know, this genomic selection thing 2167 02:10:30,080 --> 02:10:32,640 Speaker 1: I mentioned, and other things to improve the taste that's 2168 02:10:32,680 --> 02:10:35,400 Speaker 1: been lost over time. So if you read academic journals, 2169 02:10:35,680 --> 02:10:37,360 Speaker 1: you'll see that there are a lot of small academic 2170 02:10:37,440 --> 02:10:40,040 Speaker 1: groups working on these things to try to make those things. 2171 02:10:40,080 --> 02:10:41,920 Speaker 1: But the question is how do you get that through 2172 02:10:41,960 --> 02:10:44,720 Speaker 1: the regulations? And you're not going to be as a 2173 02:10:44,800 --> 02:10:47,400 Speaker 1: small academic and a market that stuff. It's gonna wind 2174 02:10:47,480 --> 02:10:49,720 Speaker 1: up with a big company, and that big company has 2175 02:10:49,760 --> 02:10:51,960 Speaker 1: got to make sure that it ships right and it 2176 02:10:52,040 --> 02:10:53,600 Speaker 1: looks right and all of that kind of thing. So 2177 02:10:54,040 --> 02:10:57,760 Speaker 1: there are some hurdles. But with this whole crisper new 2178 02:10:58,040 --> 02:11:01,760 Speaker 1: approach to genetic engineering, you know, and gene editing, we 2179 02:11:01,920 --> 02:11:03,800 Speaker 1: may be able to come up with some of those things. 2180 02:11:04,280 --> 02:11:06,200 Speaker 1: But then I do want to ask, you know, where 2181 02:11:06,280 --> 02:11:10,120 Speaker 1: is the public going to be on the natural versus artificial? Okay, 2182 02:11:10,640 --> 02:11:15,000 Speaker 1: I think if this thing tasted wonderful, oh there you go. 2183 02:11:16,680 --> 02:11:19,880 Speaker 1: I think it would be a green versus purple state. No, 2184 02:11:20,000 --> 02:11:21,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what it would be, 2185 02:11:21,320 --> 02:11:23,320 Speaker 1: but it would be you know, people would differ. Right 2186 02:11:23,840 --> 02:11:26,680 Speaker 1: and wait a minute, this is totally unnatural. This is 2187 02:11:26,760 --> 02:11:29,800 Speaker 1: not a strawberry, but it tastes great. I think people 2188 02:11:29,800 --> 02:11:32,760 Speaker 1: will take this tastes great, and I'm buying it, you know. 2189 02:11:32,920 --> 02:11:36,320 Speaker 1: So you know, I think that if you could produce 2190 02:11:36,400 --> 02:11:39,120 Speaker 1: something really good, and there are companies doing this now, 2191 02:11:40,160 --> 02:11:43,440 Speaker 1: some of them are venture capital companies have gotten investments 2192 02:11:43,480 --> 02:11:46,960 Speaker 1: from big companies. My senses, in the next ten years 2193 02:11:47,080 --> 02:11:50,320 Speaker 1: we will see um, some fruits and vegetables coming out 2194 02:11:50,360 --> 02:11:53,120 Speaker 1: that really do taste better. I sure hope. So just 2195 02:11:53,480 --> 02:11:57,800 Speaker 1: that might be your next investment, man, I'm into it. Okay, 2196 02:11:57,880 --> 02:12:01,360 Speaker 1: last question, last question for Crins. Say, all right, now, 2197 02:12:01,440 --> 02:12:05,600 Speaker 1: what's going on with the strawberries and the fish? Okay. So, 2198 02:12:05,960 --> 02:12:08,640 Speaker 1: so one of the big deals is that sometimes you 2199 02:12:08,680 --> 02:12:11,520 Speaker 1: get a frost in the early season or something like that, 2200 02:12:11,840 --> 02:12:15,040 Speaker 1: and you don't want your produce to just turn to mush, 2201 02:12:15,560 --> 02:12:18,880 Speaker 1: right because of ice crystals forming. So I think there's 2202 02:12:18,960 --> 02:12:20,640 Speaker 1: been some of this kind of talk that you know, 2203 02:12:20,720 --> 02:12:23,920 Speaker 1: some of these very arctic fish and stuff have anti 2204 02:12:24,040 --> 02:12:27,160 Speaker 1: freeze proteins, and the idea would be, can you move 2205 02:12:27,240 --> 02:12:31,680 Speaker 1: those genes for this anti freeze into something else right 2206 02:12:31,840 --> 02:12:35,160 Speaker 1: and make it? But the first that's not on the market, 2207 02:12:35,440 --> 02:12:38,160 Speaker 1: That is not I've never been on the market. There 2208 02:12:38,240 --> 02:12:40,680 Speaker 1: was a guy who early on, many many years ago 2209 02:12:40,800 --> 02:12:46,280 Speaker 1: came up with what's called ice minus bacteria that wouldn't 2210 02:12:46,320 --> 02:12:48,080 Speaker 1: nuclear you know, so when you know, one thing that 2211 02:12:48,200 --> 02:12:51,480 Speaker 1: happens is you know, in terms of that frost affecting 2212 02:12:51,560 --> 02:12:53,960 Speaker 1: your crop, is that it nucleates, you know, so the 2213 02:12:54,080 --> 02:12:57,920 Speaker 1: ice forms and then it proliferates. So if it's certain 2214 02:12:58,000 --> 02:13:00,440 Speaker 1: bacteria that allow that to happen more than others, so 2215 02:13:00,760 --> 02:13:03,320 Speaker 1: you could replace one with another. I mean they use 2216 02:13:03,400 --> 02:13:06,040 Speaker 1: it apparently now where they have strains of when they 2217 02:13:06,720 --> 02:13:10,800 Speaker 1: make ice, you know, snow, artificial snow, they put some 2218 02:13:11,000 --> 02:13:15,280 Speaker 1: bacteria and it makes it work better. Yeah, spraying spray 2219 02:13:15,520 --> 02:13:18,880 Speaker 1: stuff on the wing of an airplane or something. You know, 2220 02:13:19,040 --> 02:13:23,520 Speaker 1: I'm talking here this bitter sweet and timber ridge. I 2221 02:13:23,600 --> 02:13:26,120 Speaker 1: can't remember the Boying Mountain when they got to make snow. 2222 02:13:26,200 --> 02:13:27,640 Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm saying. If you had something 2223 02:13:27,680 --> 02:13:31,280 Speaker 1: that would inhibit ice grol inhibit yeah, yeah, you know, 2224 02:13:31,400 --> 02:13:33,000 Speaker 1: I'm talking a little out of turn. This is not 2225 02:13:33,120 --> 02:13:36,120 Speaker 1: my area. But just to say that that that that bacteria. 2226 02:13:36,560 --> 02:13:39,800 Speaker 1: You know, the story early on was, you know, because 2227 02:13:39,880 --> 02:13:42,280 Speaker 1: of regulations, the sky shows up in like space suit 2228 02:13:42,680 --> 02:13:46,200 Speaker 1: to put out these bacteria on the plants, and everybody 2229 02:13:46,240 --> 02:13:50,880 Speaker 1: thinks it must be really dangerous because space. So, yeah, 2230 02:13:50,880 --> 02:13:53,080 Speaker 1: you don't want to see a space suit on your 2231 02:13:53,120 --> 02:13:58,600 Speaker 1: farm field. Something's going wrong, right, yeah, all right, man, 2232 02:13:58,640 --> 02:14:02,080 Speaker 1: thank you very much for joined elves. Great, okay, thank you. Yeah, 2233 02:14:02,160 --> 02:14:05,480 Speaker 1: this is fun. I'm feeling better about everything. Good, I'm 2234 02:14:05,520 --> 02:14:10,560 Speaker 1: feeling more complicated about everything. We're definitely have to have 2235 02:14:10,640 --> 02:14:14,280 Speaker 1: Fred on again. This is fun. Come out to my 2236 02:14:15,160 --> 02:14:19,080 Speaker 1: taste time with the meat tasty finally get that laughing 2237 02:14:19,080 --> 02:14:21,280 Speaker 1: around meeting here and we'll we'll have fred on talking 2238 02:14:21,280 --> 02:14:23,280 Speaker 1: about that. Oh yeah, maybe you should gear up for 2239 02:14:23,320 --> 02:14:27,000 Speaker 1: a lab grown a whole bunch about start up. You 2240 02:14:27,040 --> 02:14:29,480 Speaker 1: can come back up part all right, stay too, Part 2241 02:14:29,560 --> 02:14:32,840 Speaker 1: two Fred and Lab grown Meat alright, coming soon