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Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome back. Before we dive into this episode,

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Speaker 1: let's do a quick recap. It all started out with

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Speaker 1: that crazy night my uncle Chris's trailer. I learned how

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Speaker 1: to kill people with my bare hands. I got to

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Speaker 1: see some guns up close, and I got to listen

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Speaker 1: to my uncle Chris's roommates Glenn and Kittycat make sweet

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Speaker 1: love while I fell asleep watching Frasier. We spent some

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Speaker 1: time with my mom, learning about her and my uncle's

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Speaker 1: side of the family and their ties to Spanish and

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Speaker 1: Panamanian high society. We met my friends Marcus, Bill Turner,

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Speaker 1: and Matt learned about their incredible adventures floating down the Mississippi, hitchhiking,

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Speaker 1: train hopping, and biking cross country, all the things that

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Speaker 1: inspired my own dismal failure of a bike trip. So far,

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Speaker 1: everything we've covered is on the lighter side, with a

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Speaker 1: few exceptions here and there. So I feel like I

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Speaker 1: should warn you that this episode is going to get

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Speaker 1: pretty dark. You're going to hear some stories that aren't

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Speaker 1: exactly easy to listen to. A lot of violence and

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Speaker 1: a lot of death. But I think these stories are important,

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Speaker 1: and the people you're going to meet today are amazing.

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Speaker 1: Up to this point, we've heard about adventures from people

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Speaker 1: who went out into the world on their own terms.

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Speaker 1: Today's episode, we're going to learn about people who were

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Speaker 1: forced into the world, whether they were ready or not.

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Speaker 1: This is a segment from when I was interviewing my

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Speaker 1: friend Marcus, the guy who went down the Mississippi. While

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Speaker 1: we were talking, I brought up a conversation that he

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Speaker 1: and I had had a few years ago. We were

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Speaker 1: talking about just growing up and the way we grew

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Speaker 1: up or something, and I remember you saying I'm glad

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Speaker 1: I didn't grow up the way you grew up. Do

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Speaker 1: you remember that or do you still agree with that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I do.

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Speaker 4: I do. I feel bad having said it so chilly,

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Speaker 4: But maybe I was dissecting in you some light tone

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Speaker 4: of like idealism about the way that you grew up.

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Speaker 5: Oh.

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Speaker 1: Probably. I think it was more not a lot of

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Speaker 1: thought into it, more just like, yeah, that's what you're

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Speaker 1: supposed to have, like.

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Speaker 4: The way I grew up. You know, my parents were divorced.

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Speaker 4: Dad had money that my mom didn't have access to.

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Speaker 4: We lived full time with my mom. She was pretty

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Speaker 4: broke all the time, and yet we'd go like spend

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Speaker 4: weekends at my dad's and he had this like nice

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Speaker 4: house and stuff. There was kids there in my age,

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Speaker 4: and we'd build forts and play in the woods, go

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Speaker 4: canoeing and things like that. But there's a lot of

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Speaker 4: stuff about growing up in the city and being broke

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Speaker 4: that while some of it may not have been enjoyable,

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Speaker 4: I just, you know, I think was super valuable.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I noticed about Marcus when I

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Speaker 1: met him in college was that he could be very

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Speaker 1: pragmatic when he needed to be. He seemed to have

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Speaker 1: a lot more common sense than the rest of us

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Speaker 1: art school kids, common sense that he picked up from

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Speaker 1: growing up the way he did. For instance, in second grade,

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Speaker 1: Marcus was taking the downtown Chicago city bus to school

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Speaker 1: all by himself. That's a harrowing feat for a lot

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Speaker 1: of adults that I know. As he and I were discussing,

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Speaker 1: my childhood was very different, So how did I grow up?

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Speaker 1: When I was seven, we moved from Virginia to Minnesota.

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Speaker 1: My dad was an ideologist and he started his own practice.

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Speaker 1: In case you don't know, audiologists specialize in ears. He

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Speaker 1: would test hearing and sell hearing aids. The motto for

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Speaker 1: his office was haven't you heard? We can help? My

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Speaker 1: parents are still married, and while my dad went to

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Speaker 1: the office every day, my mom was always home to

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Speaker 1: take care of my sister and me. We grew up

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Speaker 1: upper middle class in a suburb about thirty minutes outside

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Speaker 1: of Minneapolis. Five minutes east there was a target, and

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Speaker 1: five minutes west it was pure farmland. I grew up

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Speaker 1: in a big, brand new house with a big backyard

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Speaker 1: and acres of woods to play in with my friends.

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Speaker 1: My sister and I had plenty of friends and plenty

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Speaker 1: to do. In the winter, we'd go sledding, ice fishing, skiing,

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Speaker 1: or hang out at the Mall of America. In the summer,

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Speaker 1: we'd swim in lake, go out on friends boats, up

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Speaker 1: to friends cabins, or hang out at the Mall of America.

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Speaker 1: We went on lots of family trips Disney World, Disneyland,

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Speaker 1: the Grand Canyon, and road trips to pretty much everywhere else.

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Speaker 1: I grew up very privileged, loved, taken care of, in

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Speaker 1: a very stable environment. I can honestly say that I

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Speaker 1: had nothing to worry about. Listening to Marcus compare our childhoods,

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Speaker 1: I can understand what he's getting at for Marcus. Growing up,

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Speaker 1: there were struggles that he had to deal with that

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Speaker 1: me and the other kids I grew up around would

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Speaker 1: have never even considered. And now he can look back

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Speaker 1: with pride because he managed to overcome those obstacles and

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Speaker 1: make it through the other side better for it. The

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Speaker 1: environment I grew up in was so stable and so

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Speaker 1: nurturing that there really wasn't anything serious I ever had

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Speaker 1: to struggle with. The only thing I ever needed to

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Speaker 1: overcome was being bored. When I would look back at

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Speaker 1: my childhood, words and feelings would come to mind, but

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Speaker 1: my pride was never one of them. That right there

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Speaker 1: probably explains why I felt like I needed to go

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Speaker 1: on a bike trip so bad. My four years in

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Speaker 1: Savannah were my first exposure to life outside of a

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Speaker 1: suburb in Minnesota, and it was truly eye opening. I

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Speaker 1: met and became friends with people from all sorts of

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Speaker 1: different backgrounds, some similar to mine, some far more privileged,

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Speaker 1: and many more that were far less. I had friends

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Speaker 1: that were in the Army and went to fight in

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Speaker 1: Iraq and came back with heartbreaking stories to tell. I

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Speaker 1: worked at a Quizno's with a bunch of guys who

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Speaker 1: lived in the projects that were only a couple of

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Speaker 1: blocks away from where I took film classes. The restaurant

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Speaker 1: I worked at that hired people directly out of prison,

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Speaker 1: hired a drag queen named Queen Solomon or Sister Girl Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: depending on his mood. He and I got along great,

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Speaker 1: but he really got into crack, stopped showing up for work,

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Speaker 1: and ended up living on the street. Meeting all these

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Speaker 1: people in Savannah gave me a real taste for how

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Speaker 1: different life is for everyone, and how kind or cruel

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Speaker 1: the world can be depending on where you are in it.

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Speaker 1: I know that's very obvious and corny thing to say,

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Speaker 1: and it was something that I already knew intellectually, but

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Speaker 1: it was completely different to feel it and experience it

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Speaker 1: for myself firsthand, especially during those formative college years. During

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Speaker 1: that time, I took my life in Minnesota for granted.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was normal, even boring, compared to the

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Speaker 1: more interesting and exciting stories I'd heard from folks in Savannah.

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Speaker 1: But as I was driving home after my bike trip

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Speaker 1: failed miserably, I began to feel differently about how I

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Speaker 1: grew up. I began to feel guilty. On the last episode,

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Speaker 1: I mentioned that Glenn told me his life story on

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Speaker 1: the day I started my bike trip, when he and

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Speaker 1: I drove down from my uncle Chris's trailer to the coast.

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Speaker 1: That night, when I was sitting on the park bench

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Speaker 1: in Georgetown, South Carolina, I wrote down every detail of

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Speaker 1: what he told me, and I've decided to recreate it

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Speaker 1: in his own words as best I can. Unfortunately, I

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Speaker 1: have no way of tracking down the real Glenn, so

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Speaker 1: I've done the next best thing and found an actor

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Speaker 1: to tell his story for him. And trust me, this

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Speaker 1: guy nailed it. As we drove down the coast, I

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Speaker 1: was behind the wheel and Glenn sat shotgun drinking hot beers.

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Speaker 1: Early on in the drive, I asked him how he

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Speaker 1: knew my uncle Chris.

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Speaker 6: I only met him a couple of weeks ago when

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Speaker 6: I got out of prison. I'm from Chattanooga. But when

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Speaker 6: I got busted in Greenville, don't worry now, I didn't

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Speaker 6: do nothing. I was just working at the brothel, just

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Speaker 6: the front desk. I mean, I wasn't pimping at nothing.

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Speaker 6: Then one day the cops come crashing in and arrest everybody.

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Speaker 6: I may have had an outstanding one or two. The

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Speaker 6: next thing I know, I was spending four years locked

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Speaker 6: up at the labor correctional institution store.

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Speaker 1: My life boy.

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Speaker 6: So anyways, it was about time for me to get out.

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Speaker 6: I wasn't quite sure what I was gonna do. When

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Speaker 6: my sale mate he was passed with the uncle Chris,

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Speaker 6: and they put in a.

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Speaker 1: Call to That's pretty much it. Glenn moved in with Chris.

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Speaker 1: As soon as he got out of prison. I asked

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Speaker 1: him how Kitty Cat got there.

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Speaker 6: Kitty Cat's hooking up and Chad and Nuga what you

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Speaker 6: hear as they got out, and he says, come to me. Hell,

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Speaker 6: she starts sucking off truckers making her way down here.

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Speaker 6: Turns out the last trucker didn't care for it too much.

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Speaker 6: He ended up slashing her face with a razor blade.

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Speaker 6: So there's man Chres striking at his place in the

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Speaker 6: middle of the night, and then there's his knock on

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Speaker 6: the door. Right, it's Kitty Cat standing in the pouring rain,

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Speaker 6: her face all covered in blood. Hell, I ain't seen

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Speaker 6: her in years, but I knew it was her right away,

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Speaker 6: so I turned her uncle. I says, Chris, this is

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Speaker 6: my woman, and we got to get her to the hospital.

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Speaker 6: So what does Chris do. He marches off into his bedroom,

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Speaker 6: comes back with a loaded shotgun pointed at both of us,

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Speaker 6: makes us both stand there in the rain, so we're

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Speaker 6: standing on the stoop, and he says.

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Speaker 7: If either of you try to suck me over.

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Speaker 3: I'll kill you.

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Speaker 6: Then he asked if we understood. We told him what death.

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Speaker 6: He drove us to the hospital. She got patched up,

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Speaker 6: and that was that. Ah, your uncle is a guy

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Speaker 6: you do not fuck with.

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Speaker 3: Do you know?

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Speaker 6: He killed five men, two with a gun, one with

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Speaker 6: a knife, and two with his bare hands.

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Speaker 1: Glenn was cheerful and talkative, and I didn't feel like

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Speaker 1: challenging him on anything. But I didn't believe that Chris

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Speaker 1: had murdered people. If he had, I'm sure my mom

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Speaker 1: would have known about it, and I'm sure I would

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Speaker 1: have found out, and you know, it probably would have

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Speaker 1: caused a lot of drama.

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Speaker 6: Chris, don't tell you, mama shit. Every man hey killed,

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Speaker 6: Hey kill on self defense. South Carolina's got to stand

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Speaker 6: your ground law. If you can prove it self defense. Hell,

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Speaker 6: it ain't against the law. The cops they tried to

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Speaker 6: lock him up, but they was all bar fights. There

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Speaker 6: was always a bunch of witnesses, claiming that the other

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Speaker 6: guys already your uncle Chris boy, he never starts a fight,

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Speaker 6: but he'll damn well finish one, all right.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I should believe him or not.

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Speaker 1: They said something like, oh, that's crazy. You can't go

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Speaker 1: around killing people.

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Speaker 6: Sometimes that's exactly what you gotta do. First time I

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Speaker 6: got locked up, I was seventeen. That was big for

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Speaker 6: my age, so they put me in with the men.

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Speaker 6: My first day in this big fella comes over to

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Speaker 6: me and starts rubbing on my back and saying all

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Speaker 6: sorts of shit. So I told him, you touched me again,

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Speaker 6: I'll kill you. Next day, they got us all lined

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Speaker 6: up outside of cells and the same motherfucker comes up

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Speaker 6: behind me and squeezing my ass. So I turned around,

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Speaker 6: pushed his ass over the railing. He fell two stories

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Speaker 6: down to the concrete. His head popped. It was so

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Speaker 6: damn loud it echoed off the bars.

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Speaker 1: I asked him what happened after that?

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Speaker 3: Nothing. I went and got breakfast.

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Speaker 6: The guard didn't see shit. All the other guy saw

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Speaker 6: is that I'm a guy you don't fuck with, and

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Speaker 6: that was that.

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Speaker 1: So there I was driving my Grandpa's car through miles

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Speaker 1: of swamp, next to a man that I had only

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Speaker 1: met the night before, an ex con weeks out of prison,

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Speaker 1: chugging hot morning beers and telling me how he nonchalantly

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Speaker 1: killed someone when he was a teenager. Yes, I was

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Speaker 1: very nervous, but I was also fascinated, and despite looking

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Speaker 1: and sounding terrifying, Glenn had a certain charm to him.

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Speaker 1: He had decided that he liked me, and he was

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Speaker 1: able to make me feel at ease. I think from

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Speaker 1: his point of view, he was having a good time

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Speaker 1: going for a drive and was happy to have an audience.

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Speaker 1: He cracked open another beer and went on to tell

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Speaker 1: me his life story.

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Speaker 6: When I was twelve years old, I come home from

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Speaker 6: school and say, my dadd had bating a shit out

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Speaker 6: of my mama with a baseball bat in the kitchen.

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Speaker 6: He baited the shit out of it all the time,

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Speaker 6: but this was excessive. So I walk in the same

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Speaker 6: bashing away, and I go grab the gun and keeps

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Speaker 6: in the bedroom a little six shooter. I walked back

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Speaker 6: in the kitchen and I don't say nothing, I just

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Speaker 6: point and shoot.

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Speaker 3: I got him right in the gut. What does my

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Speaker 3: mama do.

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Speaker 6: She makes me a sandwich, gives me five dollars, and

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Speaker 6: tells me to go away and never come back.

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Speaker 3: Then she goes back to hugging.

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Speaker 6: Him and crying all over the man it was beating

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Speaker 6: her with a baseball bat.

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Speaker 1: I asked if his dad had died. As far as

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Speaker 1: I know, I did just stay around and find out.

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Speaker 6: You know what, I do feel bad about them, but

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Speaker 6: I didn't last. My mama wanted to brought me up

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Speaker 6: from being a little baby before I left that house forever.

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Speaker 6: I just wish I would have asked my mama for

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Speaker 6: two sandwiches. I got hugger fast hell, but I didn't

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Speaker 6: need out of no dumpsters, No, sir, that shit boy,

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Speaker 6: that's your department.

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Speaker 1: For the rest of the ride, Glenn told me a

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Speaker 1: story after story. After he shot his dad, he made

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Speaker 1: his way to New York City, and even though he

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Speaker 1: was only twelve, he said that he looked old for

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Speaker 1: his age and was able to get an apartment with

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Speaker 1: the money he made from stealing car stereos. He would

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Speaker 1: spend the next few years living in New York, stealing

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Speaker 1: car stereos and breaking into houses for money. He learned

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Speaker 1: how to play guitar and was in a few bands.

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Speaker 1: He got arrested a few times and spent a lot

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Speaker 1: of time in Juvie. When he was seventeen, he had

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Speaker 1: been arrested enough times that they put him in actual prison.

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Speaker 1: When he turned eighteen, they gave him the option to

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Speaker 1: serve out his sentence or go fight in Vietnam. He

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Speaker 1: chose Vietnam. He claimed to have been the only survivor

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Speaker 1: of his platoon after a sniper took them all out

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Speaker 1: one by one. They sent him back to the States

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Speaker 1: after that happened. Once he came back, he played bass

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Speaker 1: in a Black Sabbath cover band and started selling wheed.

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Speaker 1: That turned into selling coke, which turned into all sorts

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Speaker 1: of other illegal activities. He would go on to spend

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Speaker 1: the next few decades in and out of prison, traveling

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Speaker 1: all over looking for ways to make money. He particularly

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Speaker 1: enjoyed working in I don't know if any of his

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Speaker 1: stories were true. All I know is that from sitting

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Speaker 1: next to him and listening to him, he certainly believed

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Speaker 1: that they were, and I really have no reason to

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Speaker 1: think otherwise. A couple of days later, after my trip failed,

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Speaker 1: it was Glenn who picked me up at the Greyhound station,

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Speaker 1: and I was really struck by how nice he was

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Speaker 1: about everything. Sure, maybe Uncle Chris pointed a shotgun at

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Speaker 1: him and told him he had to pick me up.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, But that night, as he drove us

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Speaker 1: back to Chris's trailer, he didn't gloat or rub it

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Speaker 1: in my face. He tried to make me feel better.

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Speaker 1: When we got back to the trailer, Kitti Kat gave

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Speaker 1: me a huge hug and was incredibly warm, And the

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Speaker 1: next morning she made me breakfast, and when I left,

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Speaker 1: I was struck by how sweet and kind. The two

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Speaker 1: of them were literally criminals, a prostitute and a guy

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Speaker 1: who'd spent half his life in prison, but I could

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Speaker 1: sense that deep down they were genuinely good people. They

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Speaker 1: were victims of circumstance. And that's when the guilt showed

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Speaker 1: up there. I was the product of privilege and stability,

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Speaker 1: born and raised in a bubble, a naive kid with

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Speaker 1: fantasies of entering the real world, and after just dipping

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Speaker 1: my toe into it, experiencing the tiniest bit of discomfort,

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Speaker 1: I was ready to retreat back into the bubble. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Glenn and Kittycat were born into the world, there was

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Speaker 1: nowhere for them to go back too. They came to

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Speaker 1: embody the whole idea of nature versus nurture For me,

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Speaker 1: if I were to switch spots with Glenn and if

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Speaker 1: he grew up how I grew up and vice versa,

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Speaker 1: would we turn out the same or would we be

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Speaker 1: completely different? How much of me do I actually get

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Speaker 1: to take credit for or does it all just come

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Speaker 1: down to luck and what you're born into. I really

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Speaker 1: started to wonder if I deserved the life that I had,

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Speaker 1: because I don't think that Glenn deserved his. As I

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Speaker 1: said earlier, it would have been amazing to track down

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Speaker 1: Glenn and Kittycat for this podcast, but I have no

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Speaker 1: clue where to find them. I remember talking to my

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Speaker 1: uncle Chris on the Christmas following my bike trip, and

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Speaker 1: I asked him how Glenn and Kittycat were doing, and

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Speaker 1: he responded with who. I reminded him that they were

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Speaker 1: there when I visited it, and then he remembered he

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Speaker 1: had caught them stealing from him and chased them out

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Speaker 1: of the trailer with a shotgun. He hadn't seen them since.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, they were good people, just deep deep.

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Speaker 8: Down I know about good people that make bad decisions.

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Speaker 8: I knew that they had a good soul once upon

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Speaker 8: a time. Well, like, I know this one dude. He's

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Speaker 8: a really really good dude, sweetest dude ever. Will get

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Speaker 8: you to shut off his back. Whatever you asked for,

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Speaker 8: if he got it, he'd give it to you. But

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Speaker 8: a half a blink of an eye he would snap

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Speaker 8: off in the whole room and be on the floor.

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Speaker 1: This is my friend Demetrius. He and I live in

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Speaker 1: Forest Park. It's a suburb right outside of Chicago, about

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00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,680
Speaker 1: eight miles west of downtown. It's the best of both worlds,

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Speaker 1: the perfect mix of city life and suburban life. We

337
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,400
Speaker 1: met because our daughters were in the same class at school.

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Speaker 1: I'm ten years older than Demetrious, but since our daughters

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Speaker 1: are the same age, we've been going through a similar

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Speaker 1: existential crisis at the same time. We've spent a lot

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00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,919
Speaker 1: of time hanging out talking about how hard it is

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Speaker 1: to find the balance between being a dad and pursuing creativity.

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Speaker 1: Demetrius is a rapper. He goes by the name Pooky.

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Speaker 8: That's one thing I feel like nobody could tell me

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Speaker 8: that I'm not good at Somebody could be like man, Yeah,

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Speaker 8: you you suck at basketball, And I'd be like, okay,

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Speaker 8: But if you say I suck in rap, I could

348
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Speaker 8: prove it like I could turn on a nice song

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Speaker 8: for somebody else.

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Speaker 9: I'm I'm gonna due out with this paper. Ye, I'm

351
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,160
Speaker 9: gonna due that with this paper. You know you're gonna

352
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Speaker 9: step in you vapis. Yeah, spend up in a lab lately,

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00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,119
Speaker 9: twist it up, blame it up, double cup, sit on

354
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,760
Speaker 9: that money, make it double. I was down, bamist and

355
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,640
Speaker 9: run it up. How does en enough shit the puck

356
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,800
Speaker 9: atomic up? Pussy Boy's much more baying us boy about it?

357
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Speaker 5: Go and get your numbers up.

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Speaker 8: I could be a hood rap of a city rap.

359
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,000
Speaker 8: I could be a family man rapper. I could be

360
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,280
Speaker 8: a husband rapper. I could be a dad rapper. I

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00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,959
Speaker 8: can make a song about mathematics, teaching a kid how

362
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,399
Speaker 8: to read and write and do math and count. I

363
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Speaker 8: just want to show people how I get down.

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Speaker 5: Like this is what I do.

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Speaker 1: As we got to know each other, I learned that

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Speaker 1: Demetrius and I come from very different backgrounds. You grew

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Speaker 1: up south side Chicago. Yep. I've never been to south

368
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Speaker 1: Side Chicago. I've driven by it on the way to Indiana.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's about okay.

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Speaker 1: Demetrius is the middle child of seven siblings. He spent

371
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,080
Speaker 1: his early childhood living at his grandma's house before moving

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Speaker 1: to Chicago's notorious South Side.

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Speaker 8: We used to live on one hundred and eighth of Truth,

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Speaker 8: and it was this big vacant field full of wooden

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Speaker 8: planks just everywhere.

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Speaker 1: He and his brothers would go out into the field

377
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Speaker 1: and lift up wooden.

378
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Speaker 8: Planks and it was like hundreds of snakes used to

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Speaker 8: just be like just going everywhere, underground, just everywhere. We

380
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 8: started going over there just to see the snakes. Lift

381
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Speaker 8: it up, see the snakes run. Then we like, I

382
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,000
Speaker 8: guess we grew courage to just lift it up, catch.

383
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Speaker 5: The snakes now. And we made it a daily thing,

384
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Speaker 5: go over that, catch snakes.

385
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Speaker 1: When Demetrius was ten, he and his brothers moved in

386
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Speaker 1: with his mom and stepdad on the South Side.

387
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Speaker 8: That's when the rough stuff came around. Will you moved

388
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Speaker 8: my mom, And that's when, like you know, we wasn't

389
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Speaker 8: playing with snakes no more.

390
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Speaker 1: It was a new neighborhood and a new school, and

391
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Speaker 1: Demetrius was quick to notice that things were different.

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Speaker 8: You know, everybody's a good person until you get like

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Speaker 8: some type of influence to change you or something. So

394
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,119
Speaker 8: that's typically what somebody would go through that live on

395
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Speaker 8: the South Side. You could be an eight plus student

396
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:47,919
Speaker 8: until you move on the South Side because you're going

397
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 8: to get influenced by somebody.

398
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Speaker 1: As he got older, he became more and more aware

399
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 1: of the violence that was happening around him. Do you

400
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,359
Speaker 1: remember like one of the first times you kind of

401
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,520
Speaker 1: saw what was going on or got a sense.

402
00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 8: Of One day, it was mom my friend birthday and

403
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,040
Speaker 8: we had just got off the bus and this car

404
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:10,520
Speaker 8: rides up behind us, and we were like freshmans and

405
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,120
Speaker 8: these guys supposed to be like probably twenty at the time.

406
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,360
Speaker 5: So we're looking at them like, oh, these the big

407
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 5: bad dudes. You know, these are the dudes that we

408
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 5: don't need to be around. So we just started running.

409
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,159
Speaker 8: They started shooting at us, and I'm just like, bro,

410
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 8: this is my first time ever getting shot at.

411
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Speaker 5: That's what letting knew, Like, yo, this this real life

412
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Speaker 5: right here.

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Speaker 1: For Demetrius, there was a clear line in his life

414
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Speaker 1: from before that day and after.

415
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Speaker 5: Me and my friend Avery, we used to ice skate,

416
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,640
Speaker 5: we used to shoot pool. We used to sell.

417
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 8: Candy, We used to run around, ride bikes, play tag.

418
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 8: But then you know that one day when we got

419
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Speaker 8: shot at, it just like turned you to a different person,

420
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Speaker 8: and it just made you like, don't want to do

421
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:54,720
Speaker 8: none of that fun stuff no more, because now you like,

422
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,640
Speaker 8: I ain't gonna walk over here no more.

423
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna walk over there no more. You getting

424
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,400
Speaker 5: shot at. That's how I make you think.

425
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,440
Speaker 1: As Dimitrius explains that you have no choice. You're going

426
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 1: to get involved with the violence, whether you want to

427
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,400
Speaker 1: or not. You can become a target for simply living

428
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 1: on the wrong block, walking down the wrong street, or

429
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 1: even knowing or talking to the wrong people. As he

430
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 1: laid it all out, I was reminded of when I

431
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 1: first moved to Chicago in two thousand and six. I

432
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 1: worked as a delivery guy for Jimmy John's and one

433
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 1: day my manager asked me to give him a ride

434
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Speaker 1: somewhere in the neighborhood. And it was just you know,

435
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: these streets where I'd been delivering sandwiches for months, and

436
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, yeah, this is Damon, this is

437
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,159
Speaker 1: augusta whatever. And then he would like have to like

438
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 1: drop down and hide for one block. Yeah, and then

439
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,399
Speaker 1: he would get back up and he was like explaining me,

440
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,639
Speaker 1: like this street belongs to the Vikings. It was like

441
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 1: some Harry Potter shit. Yeah, he had this whole different

442
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 1: like map of what was actually going on.

443
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,440
Speaker 8: Yeah, certain streets, like some people can't get seen on

444
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 8: a certain part of Chicago.

445
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 5: That's how deep it is.

446
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 1: And how do you like figure out the rules?

447
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 5: Say figure it out as you go, And it's really

448
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 5: no rules none.

449
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 8: Like it's really unfair in Chicago because you could be

450
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 8: with your kids and somebody probably would still do something

451
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 8: to you. I know a couple of people who dropped

452
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 8: their kids off at school and got killed, like right

453
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,400
Speaker 8: after people who got killed with their kid, or their

454
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 8: kid got killed because they were walking around with their kid.

455
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,120
Speaker 8: I've seen like high speed chase goes from the East

456
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 8: side of Chicago and comes on the South side and

457
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 8: then the suspects hit a newborn baby in the stroller,

458
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 8: moms waiting on the bus stop for a bus to come.

459
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 8: Things like that happen, and you could just be chilling,

460
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 8: like me and my friend was chilling. We were smoking

461
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 8: and we's like, bro, what's all that noise coming from

462
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 8: this way, and we seen the police chasing this car

463
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 8: and we've seen.

464
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 5: A car hit the baby.

465
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my god.

466
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 8: That's the type of environment I was in living on

467
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 8: the South Side. You can be this guy that's going

468
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,880
Speaker 8: to school, going to work, coming home.

469
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 5: You still in that.

470
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 8: Like, let's just say, if you stay on the block

471
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 8: where all these guys that sell drugs and gang bang,

472
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 8: and you know, you stay on they block and it's

473
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 8: what they post up every day at you're gonna make

474
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,880
Speaker 8: friends with them or you're gonna be enemies with them,

475
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,679
Speaker 8: because either you're gonna.

476
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 5: Be cool with what they're doing and you're gonna be like, hey,

477
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 5: what's up, y'all, or you're.

478
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 8: Gonna man your business, go to work, go to school,

479
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 8: or you're gonna be in told with them because you

480
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 8: might not like what they're doing. Like, hey, y'all in

481
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 8: front of my house standing right here all the time

482
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 8: every time I come outside.

483
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying.

484
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 8: That's how it is, you know, especially if the school

485
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 8: is down the street from where you stay at.

486
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 5: That's how I got cool with a lot of people

487
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 5: when I moved over.

488
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: There, rather than making enemies. Demitrius took the approach of

489
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: being cool with everybody and got to know a lot

490
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 1: of the people in the neighborhood. Because of that, he

491
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: experienced what was happening from every angle.

492
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 5: I can blend in with whoever. Tough people, soft people,

493
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 5: gentle people.

494
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: How do the gentle people do in that environment?

495
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 5: They did good.

496
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 8: Like those are the people that like mad at their business,

497
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,719
Speaker 8: but they were still cool people like me, I mad

498
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 8: at my business.

499
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 5: I'm cool. I didn't put myself in bad situations. Bad

500
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 5: situations came to me.

501
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: An example of a situation that he didn't knowingly get

502
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: himself into happened shortly before he moved out to the

503
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: suburbs where he lives now.

504
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,479
Speaker 8: I had a friend that was my real like one

505
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 8: of my real friends, and he got shot in the

506
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 8: neck this one particular night.

507
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: We was together and for some reason, unbeknownst to Demetrius,

508
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 1: his friend thought that he had something to do with

509
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 1: the shooting.

510
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 8: Since I was with him when he got shot. We

511
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 8: were super drunk too that night, so you know, he

512
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 8: probably don't remember everything but getting shot in who the

513
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 8: last people he was with, So that's probably the conclusion

514
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 8: he came up with. Like that We hung out maybe

515
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 8: like two or three more times after he got better.

516
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 8: Whatever was going on in his head this particular night

517
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 8: when we was hanging out out, he tried to retaliate.

518
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: One night, Demitrius is hanging out with this guy at

519
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: another friend's house and noticed that things felt kind of weird.

520
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 5: We was drinking, you know, and he was arguing with

521
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 5: this one dude that we was with.

522
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 8: They was arguing the whole time we was at my

523
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 8: other homie house, and when we left, I did not

524
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 8: know he was driving with a gun under the bumper

525
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 8: his car. I was driving his car and he was

526
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 8: in the passage to see and his friend was in

527
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,640
Speaker 8: the back. His car was real dirty because we got

528
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 8: stuck in my friend backyard.

529
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 5: That was full of mud. When we was on our

530
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 5: way back home, we seen a car wash out of nowhere.

531
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: Demitrius was driving and his friends told him to pull

532
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: the car into a car wash. His friend got out

533
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: and started washing the car.

534
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 8: I wasn't thinking nothing of it. I'm just like, it's

535
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 8: late while you want to wash your car, you know.

536
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 8: But it was meant to happen the way that it

537
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 8: was happening. It was a manual car wash. Where you

538
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 8: put the soap and stuff on yourself. He put the

539
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 8: soap on the windshield. I'm not like, I didn't pay

540
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 8: attention to why he was putting the soap on one

541
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 8: ship because it's my friend. In my head, I don't

542
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 8: thinking me friends in his head, he got this vandatta

543
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 8: out against me.

544
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: As his friend was spraying the windshield with soap, Demitrius

545
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 1: was sitting in the driver's seat looking at his phone.

546
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: What he didn't see from the driver's seat was that

547
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: his friend, as he was soaping up the window, was

548
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: also reaching under the bumper for a hidden gun. Suddenly,

549
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 1: Demitrius hurt a gun shot.

550
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 8: I don't know what he shot at, but wherever he

551
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 8: shot at, it got my attention and I hopped out

552
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 8: the car so fast, and I look at my friend

553
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 8: and he's aiming a gun at me. But in my head,

554
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 8: I'm just like, why is he aiming a gun at me?

555
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 8: And I'm thinking like, I hope this dude don't kill me.

556
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 5: Ooh, y'a. I hope you don't shoot me. I hope

557
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 5: you don't shoot me. I ran. Then he started shooting,

558
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 5: and then I got away.

559
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: After that the next day he was still confused about

560
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: what happened and was unsure if the friend was trying

561
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: to shoot him or the guy he'd been or arguing

562
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: with all night. It was only later that he found

563
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: out that the reason that the two guys were arguing

564
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: is because shooting Demetrius was their plan. You thought I

565
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it. Yeah, it was a surprise.

566
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was at a surprise party for me.

567
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what's that guy up to now? I don't know. Ye,

568
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 1: you lost touch.

569
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 5: Lost touch.

570
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 8: That scarred me for a long time, you know, because

571
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 8: I wasn't able to trust a lot of people after that.

572
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: Demitrius grew up in the world completely different than the

573
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: world I come from.

574
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 8: I got a lot of friends that's in jail due

575
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 8: to gain violence or just like police violence. Probably over

576
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 8: one hundred, probably two three hundred people from my neighborhood

577
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 8: that I was friends with, probably did half of my class,

578
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 8: my high school classes did and in jail. My class

579
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 8: just had a reunion. High school class were in ten

580
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 8: years and I started just going through like old stuff

581
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 8: from high school. People that I graduated with are dead

582
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 8: or in jail.

583
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: I just went to my twenty year high school reunion

584
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: and half the people are lawyers. They are still alive though,

585
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: you know, we're alive, and I can't think of a

586
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: single person from my high school class he was dead. Yeah,

587
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: Demitrius made it out and now is thriving in Forest Park.

588
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: One of the friendliest people I've ever met. He's known

589
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: by pretty much everyone in town and it has become

590
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: a fixture in our neighborhood. But even though he's out,

591
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: he still knows that he needs to be careful.

592
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 8: You don't really make it out to be honest, because

593
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 8: until you turn eighty years old and you die from

594
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 8: natural cause or something, because you know, it's been years

595
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 8: since we seen people that we grew up with that

596
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 8: was fighting back and forth. They might see you today,

597
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 8: it's been ten years since I seen you, but haha, gotcha.

598
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 8: When I was younger, my friends that and some of

599
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 8: the people they friends that too. So anything can happen anywhere.

600
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: No matter who you with. Oh and that's like it

601
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: just sounds like a war zone.

602
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a war zone. So yeah, so that's why

603
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 5: people move far out.

604
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: After I finished interviewing Demetrius, I was struck by the

605
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: way he compared growing up on the South Side to

606
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: growing up in war. I thought it could be helpful

607
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: to talk to another friend of mine, someone who lived

608
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 1: in an actual war zone. This is Augie.

609
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 7: The proper name is Agnion, but it's always been Augie.

610
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 7: Even back at home, it's always been Augie.

611
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: I had him a few years ago at work. I

612
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: was there making videos and he was doing graphic design.

613
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: One day, it was just the two of us in

614
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: the office and we were just hanging out talking and

615
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: he ended up telling me all about his experience in

616
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: the war.

617
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 7: I was born and raised in Sarajevo, Bosnia. I was

618
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 7: probably about twelve or thirteen at the time. Early to

619
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 7: mid nineties in Bosnia conflict broke out. It was a

620
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 7: civil war of a pretty large scale. I think at

621
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 7: the end of it all a million people died, so

622
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 7: it was a significant conflict. What felt to me like

623
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 7: the conflict began overnight.

624
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 3: One day.

625
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 7: My dad was coming from work and all of a

626
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 7: sudden he called and he said he couldn't get home.

627
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 7: The city streets were closed. They were all barricaded, and

628
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 7: he couldn't move from one neighborhood to the other. And

629
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 7: we couldn't quite understand the magnitude of what was coming

630
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 7: down right that day, he made it home and after

631
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 7: that he never went back to work. Within probably a week,

632
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 7: we lost power or telephones didn't work, started living with

633
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 7: candles and supplies that you have at home, and it

634
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 7: just sort of escalated from there.

635
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: As the war escalated, Aggie, his four year old sister,

636
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: and his mom and dad had no choice but to

637
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: stay inside the apartment.

638
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 7: There was a lot of fighting at night, so much

639
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 7: so that I would walk outside in the morning and

640
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 7: people shoveling empty gun shells. There's just like full on

641
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 7: weapons left around.

642
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:26,239
Speaker 3: Right.

643
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 7: I found a hand grenade. I found it like a

644
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 7: bazooka launcher. You know, I was a twelve year old kid.

645
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 7: I only seen this stuff in movies, not realizing what

646
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 7: was happening around me.

647
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 3: We lived in a.

648
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 7: Part of town that was, without going into too much detail,

649
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 7: that was basically occupied by the aggressor, let's call it right,

650
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 7: So we were not being attacked, but the city's being

651
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 7: attacked from our location. My dad was required to join

652
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 7: the aggressor because he was employed by the National Army,

653
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 7: who was at the time. Depending who you ask to

654
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,479
Speaker 7: this day, they're going to say, well, you guys were

655
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 7: aggressor we were aggressors, but.

656
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 3: Like, I know what happened. I was there, so.

657
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 7: So my dad refused to do that because he was like,

658
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 7: I'm not going to fight my neighbors purely based on

659
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 7: different religion and these other people that I grew up with.

660
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 3: That I knew, I'm not going to go shoot at

661
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 3: my friends. That's insane, right.

662
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: Oggi says that it's still very unclear to this day.

663
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: People argue over who started the war and who was

664
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: and was not on the side of the aggressor. So

665
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: here's a sloppy Wikipedia summation of the main details. The

666
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: war lasted from nineteen ninety two to nineteen ninety five

667
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: and was part of the breakup of Yugoslavia. What started

668
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: as a dispute between armies developed into an ethnic war

669
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: between Muslims, Orthodox Christians, and Catholics. Regardless of who started what,

670
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: Oggi and his family were innocent civilians stuck in the

671
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: middle of a full on war.

672
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 7: One day, somebody knocked at the front door of our

673
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 7: condo building, and my dad happened to answer the door,

674
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 7: and he was sold that we had one day to

675
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 7: evacuate or all of us.

676
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 3: Will be killed.

677
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 7: We just start grabbing some suitcases and things that we

678
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,719
Speaker 7: felt we needed and left with two pieces of luggage

679
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 7: in our hand, and we walked with a white flag

680
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 7: on a stick because on top of the hill behind

681
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 7: our accountability there was a church and there was a

682
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 7: known sniper sitting at the very top of the church

683
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 7: bell is, So we waved the flag so that they

684
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 7: wouldn't shoot. And we crossed this field that felt like

685
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 7: miles to me, and I've never never been so terrified

686
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 7: in my entire life, because you're hoping they don't shoot,

687
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 7: but you don't know if they will. And we just

688
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 7: four of us walked in complete silence. My sister probably

689
00:33:49,920 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 7: had no idea what was happening. We made it to

690
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 7: the different part of town where the Bosnian army was centralized,

691
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 7: so that would have been the army that was formed

692
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 7: to defend the city. We went from the enemy side

693
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 7: to now the side of the army that would protect us, right,

694
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 7: that would protect the city, that protected citizens.

695
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 3: From this invasion.

696
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 7: When we got there, we moved into a building that

697
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 7: we previously lived in about five years prior.

698
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: Oggi and his family would stay in this condo for

699
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: the next six months. During that time, the war continued

700
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: to escalate and Aggie began to see and experience real war.

701
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: The thing that you told me that just stuck with me,

702
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 1: which I saund so crazy, was the sniper signs that

703
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: people would put up nice neighborly like, hey guys, there's

704
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 1: a sniper on this corner, be careful.

705
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 3: Yeah.

706
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 7: On certain major intersections in city center, they would be

707
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 7: the signs on one side of the street that would

708
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 7: say watch out, sniper, pose sniper.

709
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: You could actually google pase sniper and see lots of

710
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: pictures of the signs that people put up all over Sarajevo.

711
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 1: As Aggi describes it, Sarajevo is a city surrounded by

712
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 1: mountains on all four sides. During the war, the forces

713
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: of the aggressor were up in those mountains, firing into

714
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,439
Speaker 1: the city from north, south, east, and west. Snipers would

715
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: line themselves up with the streets in the city and

716
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,240
Speaker 1: take out targets as they crossed the street or waited

717
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: in lined for bread.

718
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 7: You would reach the corner of the street and then

719
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 7: when you have to cross it, you ran. So what

720
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 7: would happen is younger folks who usually dodge the snipers.

721
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 7: The problem is the senior citizen and the elderly, and

722
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 7: I've seen a lot of them being gunned down in

723
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 7: these intersections just because they can only move so fast. Obviously,

724
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 7: sad to see that, but the saddest part is that

725
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 7: no one would want to go help. For an early

726
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 7: teenage kid to see that, it is, it's eye opening,

727
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 7: and it's just it's a shock that I can describe

728
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 7: because you're seeing someone being gunned down and you you

729
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 7: see that they're you need to help, but nobody's willing

730
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 7: to risk their lives to go in the middle of

731
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 7: the intersection to help this person, and you know, and

732
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 7: I'm getting shot themselves.

733
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 3: That was that was hard to digest.

734
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: How many times do you think you saw stuff like that?

735
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 7: In that one month when we moved to the city center,

736
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 7: it was happening almost daily because I was in the

737
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 7: downtown area where a lot of these signs were almost

738
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 7: at every intersection. To see casualties on urban streets, just

739
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 7: sitting there, decomposing with nobody being able to do anything

740
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 7: or pick them up or put a sheet over or anything.

741
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 7: It's a grim sight to live your life and just

742
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 7: go about your daily things like oh, I have to

743
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 7: go get water and bread. Oh, by the way, there's

744
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 7: a dead person on this corner.

745
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 3: So I watch.

746
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 7: You know, it's just it just becomes this this weird

747
00:36:55,000 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 7: part of this norm that you just sort of become desensitized. Unfortunately,

748
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 7: like you just see so often that the shock value

749
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 7: just gets diluted over time.

750
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: Aware of everything going on outside, Oggy and his family

751
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: stayed inside their condo building. The building was full of families.

752
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: There were children all over the place, so.

753
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 7: You became friends with all the kids that lived into

754
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 7: that building. So there's a lot of kids running up

755
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 7: and down the stairs, different floors, playing chess, playing cards,

756
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 7: doing whatever you can in a day to day basis,

757
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 7: just to not to go crazy. And one day the

758
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 7: fighting sort of calmed down, and it was beautiful outside,

759
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 7: and I saw these kids playing outside, and I begged

760
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 7: my dad to let me out, and he was like, okay, fine,

761
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 7: I'll let you off just for a little bit. I

762
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,959
Speaker 7: go outside, I meet these kids and where we're just playing,

763
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 7: running around being kids, and all of a sudden, it

764
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 7: starts to rain.

765
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: OGGI had been outside playing with these kids for less

766
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: than ten minutes, but once the rain started, his dad

767
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 1: waved for him to come back into the building, and.

768
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't want to go inside.

769
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 7: We just got out. We've been inside for like three

770
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 7: months straight. It's the first time I actually seen sunshine

771
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 7: and been outside. He's like, no, no, no, let's go inside.

772
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,280
Speaker 7: The moment I got to the door of the condo building,

773
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 7: the moment he closed the door, an explosion that I've

774
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 7: never felt in my entire life. You know, like in

775
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 7: the movies when something explodes. You watch a war movie

776
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 7: and all of a sudden, you just hear that ringing

777
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 7: and almost it shows you a perspective of a soldier

778
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 7: who's getting out, but he's all disoriented and his ears

779
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 7: are ringing and everything's moving super slow. It was exactly

780
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 7: that same feeling. I was completely dis oriented, and I

781
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 7: looked up and my dad was on top of me.

782
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 7: All the glass shattered all around us.

783
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: Oggie went back into the building with his dad, and

784
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: that's when they found out that he and the other

785
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: kids were the targets.

786
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 5: Of the attack.

787
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 7: Found out that someone called in the coordinates and that

788
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 7: there was a coordinated attack onto that specific area where

789
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 7: all of us kids were playing. So had it been

790
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 7: even a minute later, I wouldn't be sitting here talking

791
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 7: to you.

792
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 3: So that was that was wild.

793
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 7: That was probably the first time where I was Okay,

794
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 7: this is real. This I could have legitimately died right here.

795
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,839
Speaker 1: Did any of the other kids you're playing with get

796
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: hurt or killed or.

797
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, there were definitely some casualties.

798
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 7: I can't remember exactly because it was one of those

799
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,879
Speaker 7: summer moments where it's sunny and all of a sudden

800
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 7: it's like a downpour and then like kids scatter, So

801
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 7: it was instant from having thirty kids out to no

802
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 7: kids at all within probably like fifteen seconds.

803
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: How crazy that it started raining.

804
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 7: So all these scenarios who played in I had years

805
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 7: and years later thinking like why didn't I escape here?

806
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,240
Speaker 1: For a year and a half, Oggiy and his family

807
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 1: were trapped in the middle of the war. His mom

808
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: made some connections found a way for them to escape.

809
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 7: My mom ended up getting a job for the Bosnian

810
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 7: army to work as a cook for the soldiers.

811
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: Right there were convoys of buses that were taking people

812
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,720
Speaker 1: out of the war zone, but the buses were located

813
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: in the city center downtown. Since Augie's mom worked for

814
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: the army, she knew that there were armored trucks that

815
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 1: would often go from where they lived to the city

816
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: to load up on supplies. She made arrangements for the

817
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: family to get a ride in one of those armored trucks.

818
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 7: And the day came in and we loaded up in

819
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 7: one of these armored vehicles. And this was probably the

820
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 7: wildest experience I've ever been part of. It was one

821
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 7: of those armored vehicles where there were five soldiers in it.

822
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 7: There was a one guy standing in the center of

823
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 7: it on a fifty caliber gun at the very top,

824
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 7: and there were two guys on either side, two on

825
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 7: the right, two.

826
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 3: On the left.

827
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 7: It was fully bulletproof on all sides. It's just completely

828
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 7: enclosed in with black like dark in there, like I mean,

829
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 7: it was dark. The only lights were coming from those

830
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 7: small open where these guys on the sides had their

831
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 7: machine guns through, so that was the only opening to

832
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 7: let light in, so you were able to see inside.

833
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,839
Speaker 7: So I had no visual reference of where we were going.

834
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 7: I could just sort of feel this armor vehicle move,

835
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 7: but I had no idea where we were. At one

836
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 7: point halfway through this trip, I just hear the guy

837
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 7: that fifty caliber like cocked the gun. When you cock

838
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 7: a fifty caliber gun, it's like you hear that. At

839
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:32,439
Speaker 7: that point, I think I knew that we were about

840
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 7: to get ready for something. And then all of a sudden,

841
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 7: you just hear the pings of well, let's hitting the

842
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 7: armor vehicle and bouncing off.

843
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,280
Speaker 1: Do you hear the gunshots or just the pings.

844
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 3: I just heard the pins.

845
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 7: Then I hear the two guys on either side open fire,

846
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 7: and then the guy up top when he started shooting.

847
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 7: All these shells, these massive shells were just pouring inside

848
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 7: the cabin this armored vehicle at the bottom of my feet,

849
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 7: and they were piling up so fast. They were like

850
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 7: knee hi by the time we were done, and I'm

851
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 7: just looking at these things and I was like sort

852
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 7: of kicking it with my feet because they're just sitting

853
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 7: in this one spot and the sound was deafening. It

854
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:21,919
Speaker 7: was unbelievable.

855
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: Oggi and his family made it to the city and

856
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: would end up spending the next month living with some

857
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: friends of theirs. This was the month where Aggie got

858
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 1: to experience the daily sniper fire. Eventually, their names were

859
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 1: selected and they were next in line to get on

860
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: a bus that would take them out of the war zone.

861
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 7: This bullet riddle bus that was barely standing. It was

862
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 7: literally like Swiss cheese. I mean this thing had bullet

863
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 7: holes everywhere.

864
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: The bus would take the fleeing families outside of the

865
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: war zone to Croatia.

866
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 7: The normal scenario, the distance that we were trying to cover,

867
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,280
Speaker 7: you could probably cover in a car in about five hours.

868
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 7: We were on this bus for thirty six hours. We

869
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 7: were going through wooded areas, newly carved roads. It was

870
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 7: completely like this ad hoc war zone. We're gonna take

871
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 7: it through these woods and this gravel road, and then

872
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,959
Speaker 7: you're gonna go across this field, like I'm talking about

873
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 7: in like a greyhound bus.

874
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 3: How many people on it packed? I mean every seat

875
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 3: was taken.

876
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: During the three day trip, the bus would stop at

877
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: numerous small towns and checkpoints along the way.

878
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 7: We get to this town just outside of my hometown, Sarajevo.

879
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 7: It's like war never happened. We walked out of the

880
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 7: bus and the first thing I saw was a fruit

881
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,439
Speaker 7: stand and I'm like, I'm looking at this, I'm looking

882
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 7: at my dad, and I just almost couldn't believe because

883
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 7: for a number of months, we ate like a slice

884
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 7: and a half of bread a day. And then I'm

885
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 7: now walking into this into this town that's let's say,

886
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 7: fifty miles outside of my own town. And here's all

887
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 7: the shops are open. People are sitting heaven espressos, there's that.

888
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 7: People are selling produce and grapes and and all the

889
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,800
Speaker 7: things that I haven't seen in like a year. And

890
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 7: I look at my dad and I'm like, I want everything,

891
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 7: and he brings us like grapes and brings us these

892
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 7: like sausages with bread and cheese, and we're sitting inside

893
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 7: this bus and like eating like like we've never seen

894
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 7: food before. It was mind blowing to me.

895
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 1: After three days on the bus, Oggi and his family

896
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: finally made it to their destination, a resort town on

897
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: the coast of Croatia.

898
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 7: You know, you leave in a war zone and now

899
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 7: you're on this resort town and you almost feel like, oh,

900
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 7: I just went from war zone to vacation, like in

901
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 7: a three day span.

902
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,800
Speaker 1: They spent the next few months living with family in

903
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: Croatia until they were granted visas to move to either

904
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: the Netherlands or Italy. Oggie's parents let him and his

905
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 1: sister decide where they should move. They both picked Italy,

906
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,399
Speaker 1: even though they already had an aunt who was living

907
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: in Amsterdam.

908
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,280
Speaker 7: She used to send us these birthday cards from Holland,

909
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 7: and these things would have one word that's fifteen letters

910
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 7: with like four a's in the middle, and you know,

911
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 7: two l's and two ms and I we could never

912
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 7: pronounce any of it. I remember us looking at each

913
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 7: other and we just realized as like, oh, no, no,

914
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 7: we're gonna have to learn that language.

915
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 3: No, we can't have that, and we're like, Italy it is.

916
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, half the words are food that everyone already knows

917
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 1: pretty much. I'll wrap it up here, but there is

918
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: so much more to Aggie's story. It's incredible. He spent

919
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: his teenage years in Italy until his family was granted

920
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: refugee immigration status and came to the United States. It's seventeen.

921
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: Aggie had to learn English, teach his parents English, and

922
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: get a job to help the whole family get on

923
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: their feet, and he succeeded. There's a lot to take

924
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: away from talking to Demetrius and AUGI. First off, I'm

925
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 1: amazed by how vibrant, funny, and cheerful both of them

926
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: are on a regular basis, despite having experienced the kind

927
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 1: of things that I've only ever had nightmares about. If

928
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: there's anything to take away from their stories, it's knowing

929
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 1: that you can go through some pretty extreme shit and

930
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: still come out the other end a great person. Another

931
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: thing to take away that's much more of a bummer

932
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,320
Speaker 1: is how similar living in a neighborhood in Chicago is

933
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 1: to living in an actual war zone. I think about

934
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: Oggi's experience arriving in the town that was only fifty

935
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: miles from Sarajevo, but there was plenty of food and

936
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 1: people were living their lives without a care in the world.

937
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: It reminds me of Chicago, a thirty minute drive from

938
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 1: the South Side and it's nothing but restaurants, museums, and

939
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 1: yoga studios. But whatever commentary might come with that observation,

940
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:38,240
Speaker 1: that's for somebody else's podcast. What I found most similar

941
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: in most heartbreaking about their stories is that everyone involved

942
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: was put on a side, whether they wanted to be

943
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: or not, and being on the wrong side could cost

944
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 1: you your life.

945
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 7: Your neighbors became enemies simply for being Muslim, or being

946
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 7: Catholic or Christian. It was purely based on your religious preference.

947
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 7: A lot of people that belong onto one ethnic group

948
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 7: felt that their group was in danger, so they had

949
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 7: to go and fight the other ethnic group.

950
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 5: It's like a past down generational thing.

951
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:14,919
Speaker 8: If you move in a neighborhood and you're twelve, you're

952
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 8: going to be part of the stuff that's going on

953
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,800
Speaker 8: because your family is going to stay in this neighborhood

954
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 8: for the next ten years. So when you live on

955
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 8: a certain side of the town, that's a group of

956
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 8: friends you're gonna choose.

957
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 5: It's a war.

958
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 8: Whatever side you're rolling with, you can't go on out

959
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 8: of the side, no matter what, no matter how many years,

960
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 8: no matter what type of white flag you try to

961
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:37,399
Speaker 8: throw in, it don't matter.

962
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 5: It stays with you.

963
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: Being forced to choose the side meant that they really

964
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: had no choice in determining who they were in the world,

965
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 1: and that reality controlled how they had to act and

966
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 1: think in order to merely survive. They were robbed of

967
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: all agency and forced to play a game that they

968
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: didn't sign up for. Amazingly, both Aggie and Demetrius managed

969
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,240
Speaker 1: to escape and are now living their lives on their terms.

970
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 1: In two thousand and nine, augu made a trip back

971
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: to Bosnia for the first time, and despite the risks,

972
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 1: Demetrius often goes back to the South Side to visit

973
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: his mom.

974
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 5: Don't nuts and stop me from saying, my mom, it's

975
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 5: just traffic.

976
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: So those are their stories you've already heard mine. Part

977
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: of sitting down with AUGI and Demetrius was telling them

978
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: about everything I was going to cover on the podcast,

979
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: especially the adventures that my friends went on and my

980
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,839
Speaker 1: very own disaster of a bike trip. I wasn't sure

981
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,359
Speaker 1: how either of them would react. I figured they'd roll

982
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: their eyes at the stories of a bunch of middle

983
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,959
Speaker 1: class college kids going out and roughing it in the world,

984
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: like my uncle Chris and Glenn. I thought they'd both

985
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: find it all ridiculous. Instead, they both said it sounded

986
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 1: pretty awesome.

987
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 5: Me. I wish I could have done things like that

988
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 5: when I was twenty one.

989
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 8: I was still on the same block, smoking, getting shot at,

990
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 8: getting locked up, chased by the police.

991
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 5: That's tragic. Only low class people want to hear about

992
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 5: that type.

993
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 8: Of stuff, criminals or listeners of this podcast, right, But

994
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 8: it's criminal. I got a lot of friends that come

995
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 8: from that, you know.

996
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 5: I happen. Maybe like four friends including you that don't

997
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 5: come from that. Like you say, you privileged. You grew

998
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 5: up in a nice neighborhood.

999
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 8: You got your mom and dad in the house with you,

1000
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 8: they're married, you got your whole family and all that.

1001
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 5: That's good. You better glorify that right there.

1002
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 8: You know, a lot of people wish they had their

1003
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 8: mom and dad in the same house and siblings and

1004
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 8: getting stuff for Christmas and all that. I'll be telling

1005
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:41,800
Speaker 8: people glorify that, Like, don't try to glorify Chicago in

1006
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 8: the South side of the streets and all that stuff.

1007
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 8: I'm trying to escape that to become my real self

1008
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 8: and actually be myself.

1009
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 5: I'm still learning how to leave that in the past.

1010
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 7: Just because I had this journey that was very unorthodox

1011
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 7: in a way doesn't mean that look at other people

1012
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 7: and say, you know, my life is so much harder,

1013
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 7: and you never made it through the war, so your

1014
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 7: life is easy, right Like it's it's not something I

1015
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 7: wished either, you know, it just sort of happened. Right

1016
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 7: prior to the war, we were sort of this like

1017
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 7: middle upper class family.

1018
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,839
Speaker 3: We've lived an okay life, like a comfortable life.

1019
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 7: I'm more by product of this war that happened that

1020
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 7: I never wanted to happen, more so than I'm like

1021
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 7: remembering of the times before that.

1022
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: Right, it's this weird thing where living a comfortable life

1023
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: did not shape who you are. Being forced into a terrifying,

1024
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 1: uncomfortable situation actually shaped.

1025
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:41,240
Speaker 7: You one hundred percent. That's definitely true.

1026
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: And that's a weird thing to realize. You and are

1027
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: both parents. You want to give them all of the

1028
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,439
Speaker 1: good things to shape them into the best person they're

1029
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: going to be.

1030
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 7: But are you just providing this sheltered life where there

1031
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 7: are eventually not going to be able to fend for

1032
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 7: themselves because everything was sort of handed to them. You

1033
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 7: want them to fight their own battles and work for things, right,

1034
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 7: because you want him to kind of like learn to

1035
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 7: appreciate that. Right, I can relate the stories of the

1036
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 7: war to him, but like he wasn't there.

1037
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 8: When you don't tell your kids about the real world,

1038
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 8: they grew up and they found out theyself. I didn't

1039
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 8: have anybody to warn me about the real world. My

1040
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 8: daughter is very nice, her kindness, somebody could take that,

1041
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,320
Speaker 8: so sometimes I give it to her straight.

1042
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 1: The main reason Demetrius moved out to Forest Park was

1043
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 1: so we'd have an opportunity to raise his kids in

1044
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,919
Speaker 1: a completely different environment than the South Side, the chance

1045
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: for a life that he didn't have. If they do

1046
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 1: grow up exactly how you're hoping, what do you think

1047
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: they'll be missing because they didn't grow up where you

1048
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 1: grow up.

1049
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 8: I would think that they'd be missing common sense, because look,

1050
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 8: when you grow up a little rough, you have some

1051
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 8: type of common sense.

1052
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 5: I have a lot of privileged friends.

1053
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 8: They graduated from college, but when it comes to real

1054
00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 8: life situations, it doesn't click, and it is so hard

1055
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:02,359
Speaker 8: sometimes getting through to them.

1056
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 5: And that's one thing I hope my kids have its

1057
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 5: common sense.

1058
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 1: The common theme between all of these stories for Marcus, Glenn, Demetrius,

1059
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 1: and Augie seems to be common sense. The world is

1060
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 1: full of obstacles, and if the stakes are high enough,

1061
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:21,320
Speaker 1: there are certain decisions that are actually a matter of

1062
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: life and death, and that's where having some good common

1063
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: sense can really come in handy. I'm guessing that most

1064
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: of you who are listening to this right now aren't

1065
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 1: living a life where you have to make numerous life

1066
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: or death decisions on a daily basis. What I've come

1067
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: to learn is that that in itself is a luxury

1068
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 1: not to be taken for granted. The problem that my

1069
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 1: uncle Chris and Glenn had with me going on my

1070
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: trip had nothing to do with the trip that I

1071
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: had planned. Their problem was with me. I was a

1072
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: naive college grad who had taken everything in my life

1073
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: for granted, with a romanticized vision of what going out

1074
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 1: into the world would be, and they saw that I

1075
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 1: had some ridiculous expectation that I could take the world

1076
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 1: and my place in it for granted. As well, they

1077
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 1: saw a kid who didn't have enough common sense to

1078
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 1: know that it would be important to be able to

1079
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: fix a bike wheel while biking cross country. Here's my

1080
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 1: mom again.

1081
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 2: Despite some of the abuse and some of the sadness

1082
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 2: and horrible things that happened in my growing up, I

1083
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 2: feel like I have had a very fortunate life.

1084
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:30,240
Speaker 5: I feel very very lucky.

1085
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 2: I just wanted to give you a safe environment, make

1086
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 2: sure that you had good memories, that you didn't have

1087
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:39,320
Speaker 2: some of the sad things that I had. But it

1088
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 2: wasn't necessarily what a lot of people say. I want

1089
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 2: my kids to have a better life than I had

1090
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 2: because I thought mine was fine. If you have as

1091
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 2: good a life as I'd done, I'm happy for you

1092
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 2: in l.

1093
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 1: I'm happy to report that over the years, and especially

1094
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 1: after having kids of my own, I no longer look

1095
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 1: at the way I grew up as something to feel

1096
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 1: guilty about. Instead, it's something that I have an incredible

1097
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: amount of gratitude for, and I actually do have feelings

1098
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 1: of pride. Pride not for anything that I did, but

1099
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 1: pride for what my parents were able to give me,

1100
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: because I know now that a lot of what I

1101
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: took for granted was the result of a lot of

1102
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:20,359
Speaker 1: hard work and sacrifice on their part. Eventually, I did

1103
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: go out into the world, and I had to learn

1104
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 1: some things the hard way and developed some common sense

1105
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: of my own. And now I'm a parent trying to

1106
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: impart that wisdom and common sense onto my kids, knowing

1107
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: full well that these are the things that only the

1108
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 1: world can teach them. So I'm doing what I can

1109
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 1: for now, and when they eventually do go out into

1110
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 1: the world, they'll know that I've got their back in

1111
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 1: case they ever need to take a breather. On the

1112
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: next episode, we're going to look at the life of

1113
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 1: mine Uncle Chris. Where does he fit in with all

1114
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 1: these stories I've shared? And who was he in the world.

1115
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 1: We'll figure it all out next time, but first I'll

1116
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 1: leave you with Demetrius aka Pooky with his track for Everybody.

1117
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, we grew up passest.

1118
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 9: Yeah, we came along way from flipping on a mattress.

1119
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 9: I was a young, shorty witness and a lot of

1120
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 9: stabbings came from them.

1121
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 5: Red buildings, a lot of action. Then we moved over east.

1122
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 9: A lot of trapping niggas getting that belt put on them,

1123
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 9: anybody stepping on them.

1124
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, we grew up reckless year. Well we smoke put

1125
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 5: it in the earth.

1126
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 9: Ain't nobody really asking while we moved like this?

1127
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 5: Me and my pills.

1128
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 9: Man, we've been doing some shit. We don't drop tears.

1129
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,720
Speaker 9: We done lost friends to this shit. They don't drop tills.

1130
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 9: They done lost pears to this shit whole time. This

1131
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 9: shit it ain't for nobody. Administrations ain't for nobody, man,

1132
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 9: and shit, it ain't for everybody. Men, this shit, it

1133
00:55:55,880 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 9: ain't for everybodystration shit, it ain't everybody.

1134
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 1: Special. Thanks to Travis Harmon, the actor who played Glenn,

1135
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,840
Speaker 1: and a huge thanks to Marcus Demetrius and Aggi for

1136
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:13,439
Speaker 1: sharing their stories. Uncle Chris is a production by Will

1137
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: Ferrell's Big Money Players Network at iHeart Podcasts. It's created

1138
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 1: and hosted by me Ian faff I, wrote, directed, scored,

1139
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 1: edited and mixed this episode. The show is executive produced

1140
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 1: by Hans Sanhi and Will Ferrell and co produced by

1141
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:29,839
Speaker 1: Olivia Aguilar. If you want to see what else I'm

1142
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 1: up to, go to ianfaff dot com or check out

1143
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:36,280
Speaker 1: my Instagram. Spring Break nineteen eighty four. Thanks for listening.