WEBVTT - A Gut Check on Political Spending 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:07.040 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:15.360 Stacy Vaningsmith, Max Chafkin. 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:18.400 You know, I think it's time here on everybody's business 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:20.160 from Bloomberg BusinessWeek. 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:21.560 For a gut check, a gut check. 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:26.600 We do have the outbreak of cyclospora that is getting 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:28.840 out of control, So there's the literal gut check, and 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:32.839 then there is the gut check on politics. It's a 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:37.280 huge week politically. We had this big upset election in Michigan. 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:42.040 There's just also a sense that, you know, business interests 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:45.800 are are are under attack from voters. 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:47.360 And I do think in a lot of ways, our 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:49.480 whole country is having a little bit of a gut 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:54.680 check this summer between the economy and the political divide 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:58.560 and that and that. 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:01.920 We've got west Cause over here from BusinessWeek to talk 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:02.560 about that. 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:06.880 We've got Diana Shanker also from BusinessWeek to talk about 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:10.120 all things food, including a brand new cooking show brought 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:11.880 to you by the federal government. 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:14.520 And I guess we sort of maybe have our own 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:16.160 cooking show coming up at the very. 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:19.080 End we do Max and I take to our kitchens 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:24.360 and bring you the listener some very high quality food content. 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:25.760 Stay tuned. 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:37.160 Stacy Yeah, it is August twenty twenty six. 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:37.720 That's true. 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:40.039 It is August, which means we are getting closer and 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.120 closer to a midterm election. And when you get to 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:47.119 the midterm election, people start talking about presidential elections. There 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:50.640 is so much political news happening right now, including a 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.520 lot of news that impacts our world, the world of business. 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:56.960 Yes, indeed, I actually think this is a really important 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:00.600 kind of maybe watershed type moment in the world relationship 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:06.480 between American politics and business. And I feel like in 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:09.480 the next maybe six months to a year, things are 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:11.480 going to shift, possibly quite dramatically. 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:15.360 Yeah, I totally agree. And we have West Kasova here. 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:18.800 He is editor at large at BusinessWeek. You may know 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:23.160 him as a columnist in the magazine. Wes is in Washington, DC, 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:25.280 joining us from there. How you doing, Wes, Hey, I'm good. 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:26.160 Thanks for having me here. 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:28.880 All right, So, Wes, the reason we wanted to have 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.320 you is because, so we're recording this on Thursday, August sixth, 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:35.799 two days ago, there was a big primary. They're basically 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:38.880 a primary election every week now, but there was a 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:43.200 pretty big race in Michigan. Abdul al Sayed, who was 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:47.360 the progressive candidate, tell us how significant this this victory 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:48.840 was for al Sai ed So. 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:51.320 This was a really big deal. You're right, he doesn't 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:55.440 identify as a democratic socialist, but he's definitely part of 0:02:55.480 --> 0:03:00.720 that left wing, progressive wing, not moderate run of the 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:05.519 midd democratic part of the party that's been doing very 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.880 well this year, winning all sorts of races around the country, 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:12.119 be until the win in Michigan, a lot of them 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.600 had been in solid blue states, and of course we 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.919 saw the big one that kind of kicked off this 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:24.120 whole trend with Mom Donnie winning the mayor's race in 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:24.600 New York. 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.360 You hit it at this West Elseiah did not run 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:31.040 as a socialist per se, but he ran with the 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.400 endorsement of Bernie Sanders, with the endorsement of AOC, with 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:38.920 many of these figures on the sort of progressive populace 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:42.320 left who've been running around, you know, essentially saying we 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:44.720 got to stick it to the billionaires. Let's listen to 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.400 a clip of Bernie Sanders, who was active in this race, 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.240 kind of trying to doing his best to spin this 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:53.440 victory or claim victory. 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:58.120 In the so called purple state of Michigan. A tectonic 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.840 shift took place in American politics. That's what I believe. 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:06.760 With an historic voter turnout, the largest voter turnout in 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:11.360 Michigan primary history, the people of that state stood up 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:17.479 to an unprecedented onslaught of billion am money close to 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:25.400 seventy million dollars in ads coming from super PACs like 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:30.880 APAC and others. And despite that onslaught of money, they 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:34.800 voted for a progressive candidate who has the guts to 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:38.800 take on the oligoux and fight for working people and 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.600 for a saying in moral foreign policy. 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:44.760 When we first started the show, it was the inauguration. 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:47.680 Happened the presidential inauguration, and I will never forget the 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:52.720 image of Donald Trump with all of these big tech 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:56.280 CEOs behind him, these big business people behind him, and 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:59.680 the message seemed to be the era of like business 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:04.520 friends deals is happening. How are big businesses feeling now? 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:08.200 This seems like a really different atmosphere. 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:11.240 Yeah, things have just gotten a whole lot more complicated. 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:14.440 You know, presidential races tend to clarify politics in a 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:16.599 way that midterm elections don't. 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.200 You know, two big candidates. 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:20.880 Running for the biggest office in the country as opposed 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:23.120 to hundreds and hundreds of candidates running all. 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:23.600 Over the country. 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.240 But when Trump was elected, you're right, you remember he 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:28.560 had that famous line where he said everybody wants to 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.520 be my friend, and it was true. Yet all of 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:34.040 these billionaires giving a million dollars and more for his 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:35.200 inaugural parties. 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:36.040 And it's not. 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:38.159 Necessarily, of course, that they all love Donald Trump. If 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:40.200 you look back at some of their other giving their 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.120 own personal politics in the past, it wasn't as though 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:47.800 that they were kind of standard Republicans, let alone maga Republicans. 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.080 But they could see the power shifting. They could see 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:53.920 how it was going to affect their businesses, and they 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:55.920 wanted to make sure that they were on the right 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.800 side at the right time. And you know, that's something 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:02.200 that businesses have done all the time. The real difference 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:05.960 now is just the amounts of money are astonishing. 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:10.200 And now what we've had is a very unpopular Trump presidency, 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:14.840 a Trump presidency that's been defined by kind of shifting policies. 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:18.200 You know, the tariffs have not been particularly popular, The 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:21.240 war is unpopular, and that feels like it's redounding on 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:22.640 the business class right now. 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:23.680 Yeah, it is. 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.600 And you know, when you look at why these companies 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:29.560 were kind of cozying up to Trump in the beginning. 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:33.120 It was that they understood Trump to be a purely 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:38.839 transactional creature. His policies were based on the deals that 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.280 he wanted to make, some of them benefiting the things 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:44.440 he ran on, some of them benefiting himself. Some of 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:47.719 them He just wanted all these powerful people to come 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.719 and kind of bend the need to him. And so 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.760 you saw a lot of these people, take Tim Cook 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.800 of Apple coming into the White House and giving Donald 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:01.440 Trump this gold plated award, shaking his hand, saying congratulations, 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:06.440 mister President. You saw the CEO of Intel coming and 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:10.600 striking a deal with Donald Trump. You saw all of 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.440 these CEOs who had gotten in trouble with Trump or 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:15.640 gotten on his wrong side, realizing that the way to 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:17.880 get back in and make sure that you weren't on 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:21.080 the bad side of a president who liked to take 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:25.640 out his anger in by punishing companies to make sure 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:27.800 that they were on the right side of that. And 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:32.120 now what you have is the politics for Trump not 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:36.320 looking as good, But the calculation for businesses might not 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:39.640 necessarily change, because if what they're looking for is to 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:44.040 protect their own interests, to protect against regulations they don't want, 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:46.960 or to get tax incentives that they do want, or 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.200 any number of things. Trump's own popularity may not be 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.640 as important as whether or not they're still able to 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:57.200 operate more freely than if they crossed it. 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:00.800 I do feel though, like maybe the hide is turning 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:03.760 a little bit against business. Certainly, business is sort of 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.080 a superstar in our economy right now. The stock markets 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:09.920 have been setting records, company earnings are coming in, some 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:14.880 of them incredibly high. But it also seems like there 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:18.120 is a little bit of a wave of socialism happening. 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:22.760 There's a lot of protest against data centers. It does 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:24.560 seem like there's starting to be a little bit of 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:28.040 resistance against big business. Should big business be worried or 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:29.240 now so. 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:31.240 A lot of the backlash I think that we're seeing 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:36.440 is just that the difference between a working person and 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:41.040 a mega ultra hyper billionaire now is so beyond anything. 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:43.400 It used to be used to be that Americans didn't 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:46.200 resent billionaires because everyone thought, well, I'm going to get 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:49.720 rich too one day. But now the difference between a 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:53.920 person working and say a CEO of a company, the 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:57.600 difference between a person working in an Amazon fulfillment warehouse, 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:01.200 and Jeff Bezos is just so completely out of proportion 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:04.040 that when we talk about things like the K shaped economy, 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.480 it doesn't even begin to capture just how vast the 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:11.120 difference is. And Donald Trump came into office saying the 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:14.480 system is rigged against you. He meant it in a 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.640 particular way. And I think that people now, a lot 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.360 of people who are finding some of these left wing 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:23.920 candidates attractive, are saying, yeah, the system is rigged against me. 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:28.760 And these politicians, including Donald Trump and all the companies 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.400 that are occurring favor with him, are the problem, not 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:33.040 the answer. 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:37.040 Despite the fact that many of the most prominent Democrats 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:41.559 in the state, the Gretchen Whitmer or the governor, had 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:45.040 endorsed Steven's not say it is this as big an 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.640 upset Wes. As Bernie Sanders says, it. 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:51.920 Is, yes and no. Everybody loves to read everything into 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.040 certain races, like all of us in the press are 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.160 guilty of this. We're looking for attention, We're looking for 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:58.400 stories that can explain it all. But as we know, 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.480 these things are really complicated in one race. Doesn't the 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:03.720 reason when people looked at this one in particular, because, 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:05.880 as Sanders said in that Klip is a purple state. 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:09.720 It's not just a Democratic socialist candidate or in this case, 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:14.600 a very liberal candidate winning in a liberal place where 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:16.559 you'd think, okay, that's where that could happen. It was 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:21.200 a test of whether this has a kind of attraction. 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:21.960 In other places too. 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:23.960 And if you look at the amount of money that 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:27.560 was spent against him, it really is impressive that he 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:29.559 was able to win. You're right that it wasn't this 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:34.200 big blowout, which would have shown maybe Democrats and Republicans okay, 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:39.120 things have really really changed. But APAC, the pro Israeli 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:43.920 American Political Action Committee, spent thirty two million dollars to 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:45.000 try to defeat him. 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:46.680 He's a very strong critic of Israel. 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:49.960 Now that he's won, they've said, okay, now we're going 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:52.520 to be really opening up the checkbook and we're going 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.680 to be spending even more to defeat him and other 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:59.559 candidates around the country. And you're seeing this in all 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.120 kinds of other ways where the politics are getting split, 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:07.720 even within the Democratic Party where they would want to 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:11.760 be focused single mindedly on defeating Trump, and instead there's 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:15.080 spending half their time just arguing amongst each other about 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.000 which side of the party should be winning. 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:21.640 I do want to talk about the Republicans for one second, West, 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.680 because you have been we have been talking about the Democrats, 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.400 because there was this big Democratic primary, and because a 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:30.800 lot of this populist energy is happening on the Democratic side, 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:34.040 it is happening on the Republican side as well. And 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:36.680 that is one thing that would really scare me if 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:39.880 I were one of these big donors, because you know, 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:42.040 I just wrote a story in BusinessWeek about this kind 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:46.120 of very far right candidate, James Fishback. He's like a Groperesque. 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:49.160 Many of his followers are fans of Nick Fuentes. I mean, 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:51.760 this is at the fringes of the Republican Party. But 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:54.840 this is a guy who's going around, in addition to 0:11:54.840 --> 0:12:00.400 making appeals based on race, making these very populist economics, 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:02.920 talking about we got to stop data centers, we got 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:04.440 to get rid of palant here, we got to get 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:08.240 rid of flock. It's it's almost like Bernie esque stuff, 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.040 and it's not just you know, this is happening even 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.360 when you look at somebody like Ron DeSantis, who's who's 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.680 kind of carved out a political identity that is not 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:20.640 super friendly to big companies, or jd Vance, who who 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:22.920 I think right now would be the you know, consider 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:26.440 the front runner for the Republican presidential nomination in the 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:27.080 next cycle. 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:30.360 You know, he has favored you know, breaking up tech monopolies. 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.360 He attacks tech companies like, where does this money go 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:35.479 on the Republican side. 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:38.240 Well, you know, it goes to protect all the interests 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:40.320 that you're talking about, and it's going to try to 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:42.240 find the candidates who are going to give. 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:43.120 Them that voice. 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.400 You're right, you know you are seeing that same kind 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:49.160 of message, which is the natural outgrowth of Trump's own message, 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.600 which is that this there's a big system and it's 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:55.160 rigged against you. And I think that the strain that 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:59.040 you're identifying has this common theme of this idea that 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:03.559 you know, there is an enormous amount of self enrichment 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:08.199 going on from the White House, in corporations, among CEOs 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:11.800 at all different levels that is allowing them to get 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.520 richer and richer and richer by breaking the rules of 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.840 the game that everybody else has to play. And if 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:21.280 you're looking for the kind of next beat of maga 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:25.320 after Trump and everything that comes along with Trump. That's 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.840 not a bad place to be considering that the beating 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:32.800 heart of Trump is working class men who are the 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:36.160 ones who often are getting really the short end of 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.640 the stick of trump Ism. And these people, for culture 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:43.359 war reasons and other reasons, will never vote for a Democrat, 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:46.920 but they're looking for a Republican who's going to kind 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:49.439 of voice those concerns actually do something about it. 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:53.319 Wes, thank you for being here. Come back soon anytime. 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:53.679 Guys. 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:04.000 So Max, I have a question for you. Yes, do 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:05.680 you watch cooking shows? 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:09.239 I mean not with any kind of regularity. 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:11.640 I know, cooks for your family sometimes cook. 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.000 And so every now and then, i'll, you know, I'll 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:16.160 check in see what's going on in the you know. 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:18.120 In the world of cuisine on television. 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:20.320 There is a hot new cooking show that you need 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.120 to know about and check out immediately. It is called 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:26.360 The Real Food Show. It is I love the name, 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:30.760 presented by the Department of Health and Human Services and 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:36.480 it is hosted by none other than RFK Junior. Yes, 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.720 so this is a cooking show. It's I've actually kind 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:41.920 of thought the idea is pretty cool. The idea is 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.960 he presents recipes that are sort of whole food Zee 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:48.120 make America healthy again, a. 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:50.480 New food pyramid. This is going to be axact place 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.320 to show people. I guess how to apply the new 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:53.920 food pyramids. 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:58.240 Teach a man to cook a fish, and the meals 0:14:58.280 --> 0:14:59.960 are supposed to be less than five dollars to serpa. 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:03.280 I got to see a clip of this before, ye any, Okay, 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:03.760 here we go. 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:07.040 And another element that people don't necessarily talk much about 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:10.240 is nutritional yeast. This is actually very good for you, 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.440 and it adds a ton of blue mommy and richness 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:14.880 without having to add things like cheese or any of 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.120 those other fattier ingredients that might overpower the flavor of 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:18.600 the salmon. 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:20.960 And then I'm just ready for your microbiome. 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:22.880 Wonderful for the microbiome. 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:27.200 Okay, so it's you know, it's not for everybody, but 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.080 it's really but it is for your gut biome. 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:32.440 It's you know who it's for. It's for Dina Shanker. 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:33.120 Who it is for. 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.960 Dina Shanker, who is a Bloomberg columnist or column's called 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.560 Extra Staal. You should check it out. And we brought 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:41.160 her in to talk about the new RFK Food Show, 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.280 also the cyclospora outbreak that's been happening, and just the 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.560 price of food going up so much. We feel like 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:48.480 Dina would be a great person to help us like 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.720 round up all these topics. Dina, welcome, Thank you so 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:55.480 much for having me back. Okay, Dina, first of all, 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.520 you've been writing about food for a long time. How 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:03.520 has the food business changed since Trump took office and 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:05.200 RFK Junior took his posts. 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:10.000 So it's really interesting because Make America Healthy Again first became, 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:16.120 you know, like a nationally recognized political movement of sorts. 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:20.560 It's a certainly a grassroots amalgamation of all different kinds 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:22.880 of personalities with all kinds of different goals. 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.760 The first big campaign that actually sort of almost. 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.560 Kind of was there at the creation maybe was part 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:33.080 of the creation of this movement was against Artificial Dies. 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:36.960 That was a campaign led by Vonnie Harry, who's also 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.720 known as food bab online, and she has like just 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:44.320 a massive social following and she's been running these kinds 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:49.080 of campaigns since before influencers online were a thing. She's 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.200 was an activist that used the Internet to bring attention 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:56.160 to weird stuff in food. This then sort of became 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:58.440 its own political movement, and. 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:00.920 Kennedy took it up, and so Maha was born. 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.200 And so when this first happened, when they were first elected, 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:08.600 I remember listening to the Smucker investor call for earnings 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:10.160 and someone asked him about. 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:13.360 Maha as the CEO, and he was like, I am 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:15.000 not worried about Maha. 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:18.880 Fast forward, Oh, every major company is making these promises 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:21.600 they're going to take the food dies out of their 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:26.720 products by a variety of timelines. So the government hasn't 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:30.040 actually put out any new regulations. They're just basically relying 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.800 on companies to live up to their word. They've made 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:34.560 these promises in the past, them backed out of them. 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:37.160 And it's not the entire food industry. But the question 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.480 is do they want to be in the spotlight as 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:44.440 the company that isn't doing what Kennedy food Babe and 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.119 a lot of the public really wants. 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:52.800 All Right, So you have this new administration, this new regime. 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.560 RFK Junior leading Department of Health and Human Services. 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:58.440 It's a vast bureaucracy, right. 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:02.520 It includes not just the food pyramid, but the FDA, 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:09.760 the cdced NIH including you know, being responsible for you know, 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:14.400 surveillance of various food born outbreaks such as the cyclospora 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:16.800 outbreak that's going on right now. And what is RFK 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.240 doing right now? Do you know what is happening here? 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:20.000 What is this? 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:25.480 The idea is to be presenting recipes that align with 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:29.919 the new dietary guidelines and that are affordable for I 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:35.800 guess like everyday Americans. But if you watch this recipe, 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.640 this cooking demonstration, I don't know who this is for. 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:40.920 And I will start by saying. 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:47.280 That was one really clean kitchen and two really clean aprons. 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:52.960 Everything was perfectly prepared, like the ingredients were all set 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:57.560 up in their own little bowls. Everything just like really ready. 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:01.160 It's also like sam min cakes. 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.800 Oh yes, you should say. Now the recipe is like 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:08.560 it's for salmon cakes with wildcod salmon, Pinko bread crumbs, 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:14.480 avocado mayonnaise, nutritional yeast. And then there's a salad on 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:17.600 the side, a white bean salad. So yeah, talk about 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:20.440 the recipe itself, because I think this this was quite 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:24.040 surprising to me because it was pitched as an affordable 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:28.359 nutritious meal and wildcod salmon is not the most affordable 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:29.320 thing at the store. 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:32.679 It's funny because salmon cakes are like, in my mind, 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:34.480 oh that's a pantry dinner. 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:37.199 That's like you've run out of stuff to cook. But 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:39.840 you've got, you know, a can. 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.240 Of salmon that probably costs you like five dollars or 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.280 less at the supermarket. You've got you know, an egg 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:47.520 and some bread crumbs and whatever, and you can put 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.159 together some kind of salmon cake. But they decided to 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:54.359 use a salmon filet, which they said was had been frozen, 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:58.399 and then they defrosted it, which also takes time, and 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:00.840 then they roasted it, which all so it takes time. 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:01.120 Not that long. 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:02.920 Salmon doesn't take a super long time to cook, but 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.040 then you have to wait for it to cool, which 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:06.160 also takes time. 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:08.440 And like you said, it's not cheap. 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.639 Can you find a frozen filet of salmon for a 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:15.119 reasonable price, Sure, but why not go with the can 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:18.320 salmon which is half the price And all you need 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.080 to do to prepare that can is open it. So 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:23.080 that to me felt like a little bit, you know, 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:25.800 out of touch with the way somebody just trying to 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:28.679 get dinner on the table would actually cook. 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:32.359 Now, I actually have a few complaints. 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:34.680 About the recipe for it. Do you know, we want 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:36.520 to know, but you know what else makes a salmon 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:37.040 cake good? 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:37.760 Sauce? 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:39.919 You know what they did not have sauce? 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:42.040 I thought that's what the avocado mayonnaise. 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:44.960 No, they used that in the recipe to help the 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:46.640 whole thing kind of bind together. 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:49.880 Also like twelve bucks a jar, Yeah, FYI. 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:52.400 And I mean nutritional yeast actually made me. 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:57.159 Laugh because who keeps nutritional yeast in their pantry? 0:20:57.520 --> 0:20:58.000 Vegans? 0:20:58.280 --> 0:20:59.800 I don't know anybody whose does it. 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:02.679 So it's not that there's anything wrong with any of 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:06.200 these ingredients. It's just that if you want to share 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:10.679 with Americans how to make dinner that is affordable and healthy, 0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:13.040 help me do that in a way that is not 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:17.600 completely inconvenient and requires an entire trip to the supermarket. 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:20.240 If there's one thing I know about RFK is that 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:22.800 he's no vegan. But leaving that aside, and I think, 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:26.520