1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: We have good news. Ruthie's Table four is launching on YouTube. 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: Well you'll find full episodes, clips, and some of my 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: favorite moments from the series. Guests like Kate Blanchett, Francis 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: Ford Coppola, Sienna Miller, so Is Saldana, and many many more. 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 2: To watch. 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: Go to YouTube dot com slash hat symbol Ruthie's Table 7 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: four pod. I can't wait to see you there. 8 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 3: Welcome to Rivercafe Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and 9 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 3: Adamized Studios. 10 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 2: I'm going to read a recipe of yours, the Summer Ministrony, 11 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 2: and it serves ten, well might serve ten for some 12 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 2: meats anyway, finish it off. 13 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: My guests all love food, but Nigel Yella Lawson does 14 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: more than love food. Apart from her extraordinary children with 15 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: John Diamond, Bruno and Cosima, food is the true focus 16 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: of her life. I cannot remember the day I met 17 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: Nigella because that would be like remembering the day I 18 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: met my sister or my cousin. For Nigella is family together. 19 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: We've been through sadness and happiness and celebrations of both. 20 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: Nigella and I might go for months without seeing each other, 21 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: but I know for a fact that she would be 22 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: the first person on my bed and I would be 23 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: the first person on hers. In a crisis. We would 24 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: lay in each other's arms, and then we would go 25 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: in the kitchen and eat. Quite simply, she's close to 26 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: my heart, and quite simply, I love her. 27 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: I love you all so moving, Ruthie. Right, and now 28 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 2: I'm going to read the Summer MINISTRONI so two garlic cloves, 29 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 2: one small head of celery chopped, three small red onions chopped, 30 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 2: four tablespoons olive oil, one kilo of thin asparagus, six 31 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 2: hundred grams of fresh peas, six hundred grams of fresh 32 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: young broad beans, four hundred and fifty grams of young 33 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 2: green beans, trimmed and chopped, one liter of chicken stock, 34 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:30,399 Speaker 2: half a bunch of fresh basil leaves, finely chopped, three 35 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: hundred mills of double cream in a saucepan. Fry the garlic, celery, 36 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 2: and onions gently in the olive oil until soft. Divide 37 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 2: the asparagus, peas, broad beans and green beans between two bowls. 38 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 2: Add one bowlful to the onion mixture, and cook, stirring 39 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 2: to coate with oil for five minutes. Season cover with 40 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: the chicken stock and bring to the boils. Simmer for 41 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 2: fifteen minutes. Add the maining vegetables and cook for a 42 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: further ten minutes. Remove from the heat and stir in 43 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: the basil and cream cool to room temperature. Then served 44 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 2: with parmesan and pesto. 45 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: Thank you so yeah, So of all the recipes, you 46 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: say it reminds you of the River Cafe. Well, I. 47 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 2: Feel choosing any recipe is a source of anguish because 48 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 2: there's so many I could choose, And I think I 49 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: remember having this. I don't know when. It would have 50 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 2: been the eighties, yep, late eighties. 51 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: Might have even been on our first menu. Yes, I 52 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: think it was really one of the first. 53 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 2: And it was like it was both like nothing else 54 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 2: I'd ever eaten and yet so familiar. There's something as well, 55 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 2: I think it says so many interesting things about food 56 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 2: and eating that the eating at room temperature. I think 57 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: so many people eat food too hot and too cold, 58 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: and room temperature is something the Italians really get allows 59 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 2: you to taste flavors so vibrantly. Maybe it's maybe there's 60 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 2: something about it that reminds me of child and not 61 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: that I ate this, but that although it's Italian. Those 62 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 2: the sweet starchiness of the peas somehow reminds me of 63 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 2: an English summer as well. 64 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of our favorite food 65 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: does go back to very often the food that we 66 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: did have as a child, or that has a memory. 67 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: And did you grow up with? Is your mother cooked? Yes, 68 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 1: she was a good Tell me about your mother. 69 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 2: My mother was a rather fascinating but I was saying 70 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 2: difficulty is not a very compassionate way of describing it. 71 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 2: She married very young, she was nineteen nineteen and had 72 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 2: to have her child at twenties. You know, my old brother. 73 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 2: She felt things very deeply but didn't always express it, 74 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 2: so would erupt quite a bit. And you know, she 75 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 2: was fantastically impatient. And one of the jobs we had 76 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 2: to do, my sister Thomasina, we used to have to 77 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 2: make mayonnaise together and one of us would whisk and 78 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 2: one would pour the oil. And whoever was whisking, you know, 79 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 2: you weren't whisking fast enough, and whoever was poor, and 80 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 2: you weren't to sing slowly, you weren't. And the tension, 81 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 2: you know, So it's so difficult because I remember what 82 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 2: I learned, and I remember being in the kitchen with 83 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 2: fondness and gratitude. And yet it would be so unfaithful 84 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 2: to the truth if I didn't say it was also 85 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 2: a source of great tension. I mean, it was frightening, 86 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 2: but I think that. But I think I did learn 87 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 2: a lot. And she was a very spontaneous cook. 88 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: But imagine being ninety and twenty and having to embrace 89 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: motherhood and domestic life and cook. 90 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 2: Do you think she liked cooking? 91 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: Did she like he? 92 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 2: Didn't? I associate my mother with food, and yet she 93 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 2: had a very troubled relationship and had eating disorders, which 94 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: I didn't really think. I didn't really take on board 95 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 2: until I was in my teens, I think, and I 96 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 2: don't know when it started. And it was difficult because 97 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: it it was really a repudiation of something that gave 98 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 2: her pleasure. And the heartbreaking thing is, you know, she 99 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 2: died when she was forty eight, and she hit pretty 100 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 2: quickly because she got diagnosed, well, she didn't get diagnosed. 101 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 2: I was told by the doctor three weeks before she died. 102 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 2: I didn't tell her until two weeks because I was 103 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: waiting a bit just to get it for you know, 104 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: more tests and things and she said it was the 105 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: first time being ill, was the first time she could 106 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 2: eat without anxiety or guilt. I mean, that's that's and 107 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 2: I think that so on the one hand, you know, 108 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: I've learnt everything about what cooking is from her, not 109 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 2: everything I've learned from you. I've learned from Anadeale Conte. 110 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 2: I've learned from Claudia Rodin. But I also learned what 111 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 2: path I didn't want to go down, and it wasn't 112 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 2: that one was your father? Did you ever cook? No? 113 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 2: He didn't. Occasionally later on he would make his own 114 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: breakfast breakfast, which I think is quite an old fashioned 115 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 2: male thing to do that somehow they don't feel, you know, 116 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 2: cooking eggs is too much of a dent to their dignity. 117 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: Because he you know, we talk a lot about, you know, 118 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: the generational men in the kitchen, men coming in the 119 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: kitchen ment. Very often Americans will say their father never cooked, 120 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: but did the barbecue, yes, or that's somehow grilling me. 121 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 2: But even so, I think he would only make his 122 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 2: break I don't know, but we know what about your brother? 123 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: Did your mother concentrate on teaching him. 124 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 2: Or no, he didn't get taught, although I did teach 125 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 2: him how to make you know, home days, which he loves. 126 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: But he's a wonderful eater, and I sometimes think, you know, 127 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 2: not everyone can be a cook, but good eaters are 128 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: are valuable. 129 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: The other night you were here with Bruno, and I've 130 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: seen you here with children and family and little kids 131 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: and big heads and students come here and have just 132 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: one pasta or whatever. But was it more of a 133 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: special occasion for your birthdays. 134 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 2: Birthdays or occasionally for a treat. There was a Chinese 135 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 2: restaurant in King's Row called Choys Oh Choice, Yeah, you know, 136 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 2: and I remember that, But it was I was. I 137 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: found meals difficult. It's an odd thing, or family meals. 138 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 2: You know. I was clumsy and I'd always not something over, 139 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 2: and I found myself slightly inhibited within a family group. 140 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 2: I came into my own later, and I think as well, 141 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 2: I didn't really enjoy eating. Well, I didn't enjoy meals 142 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 2: a lot until I had a bit more control so 143 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 2: I can decide what I wanted to eat. And for 144 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 2: that reason, you know, a tasting menu is my idea 145 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 2: of hell. Also, you went to Italy, didn't I didn't. 146 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 2: It made it such an impression on me well more 147 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 2: than that. It really altered my life in so many 148 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:37,719 Speaker 2: ways before. So what happened was I did the in 149 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 2: the olden days, you did an entrance exam to go 150 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 2: to Oxford. I thought I would like to do German 151 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 2: and Italian, so I thought. I pretended at the interview 152 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 2: that I was going to go to school there, but 153 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 2: I didn't in Italy, you know, in the year between 154 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 2: the gap year. But I didn't, And I just turned 155 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 2: up with a school friend and and I got a job. 156 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 2: We got we had a job share, so we had 157 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,239 Speaker 2: one room in a pen in Florence, and we were chambermaids. 158 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 2: And all I would say is if anyone ever stays 159 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 2: in a hotel and wonders whether people try on your 160 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 2: clothes and put your center on, yes we do. 161 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: And because they live that, you don't leave your clothes 162 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: on the floor. Yeah, so you're seventeen, No, I was 163 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: by then. 164 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 2: I was nineteen, I think, just on the cars, just 165 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 2: about eighteen nineteen. I couldn't say anything. I could say, 166 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 2: you know, missus Green has a brown hat or something, 167 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,959 Speaker 2: and oh, I don't know. It was just terrible, and 168 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 2: I was meant to be the one getting us somewhere, 169 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 2: and I had no idea, and I couldn't understand when 170 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 2: they answered. So there was It was a penzione run 171 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 2: by a married couple who came from Arezzo, and they 172 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 2: had a son called Leonardo, and they had his mother, Lana, 173 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 2: living there, and every now and then they go to 174 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 2: their farm and she would be left there and we 175 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 2: weren't allowed in the kitchen. But the minute they gone, 176 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 2: you know, I'd be allowed in the kitchen because she 177 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 2: wanted a company, you know, and she was wanted to 178 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 2: chat and so so I watched her cook, and there 179 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 2: was something she used to do that. The thing I 180 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 2: remember most is that wonderful Italian with ros beef, which 181 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 2: is almost sort of pot roast, do you knows. And 182 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 2: I would see a bit of the oil, put the garlic in, 183 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 2: and move the garlic when it was brown. In the 184 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 2: north of Italy, the idea of leaving lots of garlic 185 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 2: was sort of odd and very small amount of meat, 186 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 2: which then you know, it was called roz aladdin when 187 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 2: you round something sit around that and you know rosmar 188 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 2: eating a bit of wine like that and sort of 189 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 2: cook it so it was not quite not fried, but 190 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:55,079 Speaker 2: not poached really and there's something so enormously different. Again 191 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 2: served at room temperature, and she made prey mashed potatoes 192 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 2: with I always feel like saying, whenever people go Italians 193 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 2: don't use butter. I felt like you should have seen 194 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:06,119 Speaker 2: mashed potatoes. 195 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: And I think, but again, when you were mentioning about 196 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 1: the beef being room temperature, I often think that the 197 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: only thing that Italians really like temperature is ice cream 198 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: very cold and pasta very hard. I mean, I think 199 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: that's the otherwise, as you're saying, roastbyeffish, I always let 200 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: my ice cream stay out. 201 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I love that. But I think that being 202 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 2: in Italy, we didn't have an awful lot of money 203 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 2: to spend. And there was a bar I went to, 204 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 2: and you could sit at the bar and have a 205 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 2: campari soda and you could have a selection of I 206 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 2: suppose it was I suppose they were still crostini, not 207 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 2: blue to getter, but with you could choose different soft cheeses, 208 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 2: whether it it was mozzare la urata And I'm trying 209 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 2: to think which is the other one was. Now it 210 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 2: will come to me there was another one. No, it 211 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 2: was creamier and you had it with stripe of anchovy 212 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 2: on term so wonderful and I could keep you going, 213 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 2: do you know that would really keep And again I 214 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 2: could go to a bar and have a comparty. You 215 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 2: know that's the difference, isn't it That you considered a 216 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 2: bar and have a drink something to eat. Was going 217 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 2: back to Oxford a rude awakening then when you could 218 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 2: only go to a pub and I didn't really want to, 219 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 2: I didn't want to be. What I was going to 220 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 2: say about Italy is that I'd been very shy, and 221 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 2: I mean not at home more than at home or 222 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 2: in the adult world a bit. And when I had 223 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 2: to speak Italian, because I was speaking a different language, 224 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 2: I had to be a different person. I was more voluble, 225 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 2: I was less shy, and so I found my voice 226 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: and that doesn't matter where you find it. I felt 227 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 2: that I felt you, both in the food, food and 228 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 2: a way of being and being with other people, because 229 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 2: I think one of the things that's quite difficult when 230 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 2: you're adolescent is that people on the whole. This is 231 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 2: different now and there's Facebook and Instagram, but then people 232 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 2: knew you just in the context of your family. And 233 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 2: I'm not talking about having a well known father, and 234 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 2: I'm talking about everyone, so they know your so and so, sister, 235 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 2: Oh I know your cousin or didn't I see you there? 236 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 2: And that's fine. But somehow to go into a place 237 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: and not be, not have all those connections is freeing, 238 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 2: being completely independent, earning your own living, fending for yourself. 239 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: I can imagine they loved you. I can see you 240 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: in Italy. I can close my eyes and see you. 241 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 2: It was. It was if It's as if I had 242 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: decided at a young age I wanted to be Italian, 243 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 2: and then I sort of proceeded. 244 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: And then did you bring that food backward? 245 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 2: I did? It may be shocked differently, but you know, 246 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 2: it's so different because I think it's hard not to 247 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 2: love itly without without being romantic about it. And one 248 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 2: shouldn't be because like any country, it has its issues 249 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 2: and it's a bit. Nevertheless, I think one is allowed 250 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 2: to have places which in reality and symbolically mean a 251 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 2: lot in your life. 252 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: I have such strong memories. I mean I have memories. 253 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: I said, you know, I don't remember when we met 254 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: because I just remember just you being in my life 255 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: and this magnificent woman who you know, combined all the 256 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: food and energy and writing and restaurants and and love 257 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: and love for John, and you know, and I think 258 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: I might have met John the first time, maybe in 259 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: the ivy. And he was so funny, you know, he 260 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: was just so funny and so attractive. 261 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 2: Not a great and I don't mean he was, but 262 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 2: you know, he tell me, no, he was a greade eater. 263 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 2: But he just didn't like an awful lot. He was 264 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 2: picky and he I remember the first time I cooked 265 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 2: for him. I think it was in my flat in 266 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 2: chester to Roads. No, it wasn't really, and I think 267 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 2: I don't. I think we were just friends at that stage. 268 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 2: But I thought I would cook something and I think 269 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 2: it was based on a Claudia Roidin recipe. And there 270 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 2: was a sort of corsettes with saffron and some sort 271 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 2: of sauce and and then you made the sauce new 272 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 2: for the the chopsychini around the chicken. And John took 273 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 2: one look at it and he said, no gravy for. 274 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: Me, please. 275 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 2: And that's so I know, And you know he I 276 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 2: still think of him that, you know, he his idea. 277 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 2: He adored tinned potatoes. I've I know their new potatoes. 278 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: In tins, so their whole little cooked, Yes, cooked. 279 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 2: And his idea of a real treat too was tin 280 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 2: fruit salad with evaporated milk vapp I mean, but he did. 281 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: He had a sweet chet. I guess. He loved talking. 282 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 2: He loved talking. 283 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: Endless meals and remember that big table, the. 284 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 2: Big odal table, and there was yes, so there was 285 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 2: always people, people and eating. And I don't do children's 286 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 2: food and non children's food, but obviously there is certain 287 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 2: things that I would I make that were easier and 288 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 2: people liked, and also that thing of sometimes it would 289 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 2: just be like an indoor picnic. You know, you can 290 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 2: get you know, bread, cheese, hams, salami, tomatoes, and it 291 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 2: just really depends that. You know, there's so many pleasures 292 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 2: around food. And what about the kids eating? Were they? 293 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 1: Did they cook with you? Did you cook with Yes? 294 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 2: I always did because I was completely And I remember 295 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 2: once going to shave my brother when Bruno was very little, 296 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 2: when I was cooking and he put his hand, I 297 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 2: said careful and he put his hand, yes, And I 298 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 2: felt like the most awful person. But actually coming to 299 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 2: lunch was a child psychologist, I think, and he went nonsense, 300 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 2: the best way to learn about danger is in a 301 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 2: safe environment. I felt much better, he said. He went 302 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 2: put his hand in a sauceman again. 303 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you also about restaurants. Do you 304 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 1: love restaurants? 305 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 2: So do I love some? I love some because you 306 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 2: were a critic for what I was, and well, I 307 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 2: didn't do lots like people do now. I didn't want 308 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 2: to fortnight, and I always felt I was representing the reader. 309 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 2: So I really wanted to, in a way evoke just 310 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 2: when I read a recipe, I'm trying to evoke the 311 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 2: feeling of cooking something. I wanted to devote the experience 312 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 2: of being in the restaurant, not you know, it's not 313 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 2: about how chummy you are with the chefs or what 314 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 2: you know about a place. It's are you going to 315 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 2: have a wonderful time? And the theater of the room 316 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 2: and the space, and that wonderful always of a clink 317 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 2: of glasses. And I feel I have less of a 318 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 2: restaurant going life than I used to do, and that's partly. 319 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 2: Sometimes I don't I don't want to be looked at 320 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 2: instead at and I feel like I'm a bit on show. 321 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 2: Not always, but sometimes it depends on how vulnerable or 322 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 2: otherwise I might be feeling at any time. I love 323 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 2: going to places I feel at home in and I 324 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 2: love seeing you know, people who work there, and that 325 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 2: makes because it's about exchange, human connection. 326 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,199 Speaker 1: As we've said over and over that food is a 327 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 1: connection to our history, to our children now, to our lives, 328 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: to our friends. It also is a comfort. And so 329 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 1: I guess my last question to you, as I ask everyone, 330 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: is it food is a comfort? Is there a food 331 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: that you go to if you need if you're hungry, 332 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: not if you want to impress, but if you need comfort. 333 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 2: It's so difficult because I feel like for me, all 334 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 2: food is comfort. That's a good answer. 335 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: So I do that. 336 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. I guess you know my mother's 337 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 2: way of cooking chicken, which is a bit like chicken soup. 338 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 2: You know, so anything chicken eat brothy is a comfort 339 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 2: rice in some I think that generally, I guess, like 340 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 2: a lot of people, I think of comfort food as 341 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 2: being something sort of carby. Yeah, I mean bread always, 342 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 2: but I think in different moods, all food is a comfort, 343 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 2: And I think it's it's just there is such beauty 344 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 2: in just the ingredients, and sometimes when you've peeled an onion. 345 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 2: The way the skin looks on the shopping board, it's 346 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 2: just wonderful. Or I thinks, smell as you great lemon 347 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 2: zest and that changes the air. So I feel it 348 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 2: reminds you. You know, you're alive and you're taking pleasure, 349 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 2: and to be grateful for that. 350 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 1: Well, I'm grateful for you. And we're going to go 351 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: and take comfort and have some lunch in the River Cafe. 352 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: Comfort and connection and love. 353 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 2: I love you, Nanja, I love you, Darnie. 354 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 1: Thank you. 355 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 3: River Cafe Table four as a production of iHeartRadio and 356 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 3: Adamized Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 357 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.