WEBVTT - OpenAI, Oracle Expand Stargate Project 

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive

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<v Speaker 1>from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde and New York

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<v Speaker 1>and Ed Lovelow in San Francisco.

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<v Speaker 2>This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. Open AI ramps up

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<v Speaker 2>with more computing capacity from Oracle, expanding the Stargate initiative. Plus,

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<v Speaker 2>the US House of Representatives is on track to vote

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<v Speaker 2>on Donald Trump's tax and spending bill.

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<v Speaker 3>What does that mean for tech?

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<v Speaker 2>And the Trump administration lifts some export license controls requirements

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<v Speaker 2>for chip design software sales, specifically for China. Let's get

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<v Speaker 2>right to financial markets and as that one hundred is

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<v Speaker 2>pushing once again to fresh record highs strong jobs data

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<v Speaker 2>for the month of June. Halfway through the show, we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to go really deep on jobs and then we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to look at the labor market when it comes

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<v Speaker 2>to the technology sector. But there are other things happening

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<v Speaker 2>that are pushing the tech sector in XT markets higher.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of it is related to compute capacity. Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 2>broke a really big story last night, and I want

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<v Speaker 2>to get right to it.

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<v Speaker 3>The story's Oracles.

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<v Speaker 2>On a two day basis, we saw a five percent

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<v Speaker 2>jump in oracle yesterday. We're pushing a little bit higher

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<v Speaker 2>again this Thursday. But the deal is open AI expanding

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<v Speaker 2>the Stargate project, getting more compute capacity in new states

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<v Speaker 2>and new sites beyond what they've already got in Texas.

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<v Speaker 2>The person that broke that story Bloomberg's Brody Ford, and he's.

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<v Speaker 3>With us now.

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<v Speaker 2>I think we need to get to the details of

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<v Speaker 2>what you reported, because there was a lot of detail

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<v Speaker 2>in it, Brody, specifically in terms of gigawatts.

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<v Speaker 3>The scale of this new capacity.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, we saw earlier in the year, you know, Larry

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<v Speaker 4>Ellison standing there in the White House talking about we're

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<v Speaker 4>going to deploy five hundred billion dollars with open AI

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<v Speaker 4>for data centers. A lot of people doubted that scale. Well,

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<v Speaker 4>yesterday we broke that they have inked a pretty unprecedented

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<v Speaker 4>deal four point five giggle watts. The usual rule of

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<v Speaker 4>thumb is that a gigglewats about a nuclear reactor, and

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<v Speaker 4>so we're talking about a scale of four and a

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<v Speaker 4>half worth of nuclear reactors or powering about three and

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<v Speaker 4>a half million homes. I mean, this is likely the

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<v Speaker 4>largest cloud deal of all time, and it's gonna be

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<v Speaker 4>tens of billions of dollars of chips of power. I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>it's gonna be hard to wrap our head around what

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<v Speaker 4>this looks like in the build out.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, what do we know?

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<v Speaker 2>What are sources telling us about where these new sites

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<v Speaker 2>are going to be, what's under consideration? And kind of

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<v Speaker 2>like how near term this is?

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<v Speaker 5>Right?

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<v Speaker 4>So they've narrowed on a handful of data center sites, right,

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<v Speaker 4>I mean a ten states like Wisconsin or Pennsylvania or Texas.

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<v Speaker 4>They'll also be expanding the campus they've already built out

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<v Speaker 4>in Abilene that a lot of us have seen, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>images of how near term I mean, a lot of

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<v Speaker 4>this stuff is tough to get off the ground. Oracle

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<v Speaker 4>earlier this week said that the full ramp would likely

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<v Speaker 4>not hit into twenty twenty eight, and so it's it's

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<v Speaker 4>fairly far out, but I would expect to see some

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<v Speaker 4>of these sites come out and a pretty rapid clip.

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<v Speaker 4>We don't know exactly which one's gonna move first, but

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<v Speaker 4>you know, I'm sure we're gonna be starting to get

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<v Speaker 4>more details trickling out in the coming weeks and months.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's talk about the Oracle side of this.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a stop that's now again pushing fresh record

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<v Speaker 2>highs almost every day. At the moment, it's up forty

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<v Speaker 2>percent so far in twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 3>This is a big win for Oracle.

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<v Speaker 2>They are really pushing and changing their position in the

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<v Speaker 2>landscape of infrastructure and AI cloud computing.

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<v Speaker 4>Three years ago, if you said Oracle major cloud player,

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<v Speaker 4>people would make fun of you, definitely, But today that's

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<v Speaker 4>not the case, right. I mean, they're making I think

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<v Speaker 4>around ten billion per year in cloud infrastructure. On Monday

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<v Speaker 4>they said the deal that we connected is this opening

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<v Speaker 4>I one will be thirty billion per year. I mean

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<v Speaker 4>that is triple the size of their entire current cloud

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<v Speaker 4>and so it's huge for revenue. The big question is

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<v Speaker 4>what it means for margins, And that's kind of the

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<v Speaker 4>classic with a lot of these AI businesses that they're

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<v Speaker 4>going to be buying a lot of chips and power

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<v Speaker 4>and construction, and that's going to constrain their margins. What

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<v Speaker 4>does that mean for cash flow? That's what investors are

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<v Speaker 4>asking this morning.

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<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg's Brody Ford there with the reporting, let's get to

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<v Speaker 2>the analysis. This expanded deal between Oracle and open Ai.

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<v Speaker 2>It's also good news for some chip makers. That's according

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<v Speaker 2>to Bloomberg intelligence, who say the likes of Nvidia and

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<v Speaker 2>AMD are going to benefit here. Keunjin Sabani offered that

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<v Speaker 2>note and he joins us. Now inside all of this infrastructure,

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<v Speaker 2>at the heart of it is the compute, and the

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<v Speaker 2>compute right now in this market is largely coming from Nvidia,

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<v Speaker 2>but also to a greater extent increasingly from a AMD.

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<v Speaker 2>What's the thesis here that you've got congent.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, two points, As Brady mentioned, Oracle has been really

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<v Speaker 6>beefing up their spending versus what we thought a year

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<v Speaker 6>or two ago. Now if you look at the estimates

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<v Speaker 6>now you're in for twenty five, it is going to

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<v Speaker 6>be the fastest CSP in terms of capex increases, so

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<v Speaker 6>definitely increasing the wallet share and becoming a serious buyer

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<v Speaker 6>of the chips. Second point, it is one of the

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<v Speaker 6>only hyper scalers or cloud providers among the top five

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<v Speaker 6>who does not have a custom silicon or an ACIC program.

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<v Speaker 6>What does that mean is majority of the capex that

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<v Speaker 6>is is going to spend to bring up this four

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<v Speaker 6>point five gigle wats of capacity is going to merchant

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<v Speaker 6>GPU providers, likes and media which it has been buying.

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<v Speaker 6>Most of GPS from in the past, but also AMD

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<v Speaker 6>because as they announced, they're ordering about one hundred and

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<v Speaker 6>thirty k M three point fifty five for the second half,

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<v Speaker 6>which equates to somewhere between three to four billion dollars

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<v Speaker 6>of revenue for AMD.

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<v Speaker 2>Just real quick, con Jen Brody was giving us the

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<v Speaker 2>reporting on the dollar value of this deal to Oracle, right,

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<v Speaker 2>it's that thirty billion dollars that we were talking about

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<v Speaker 2>earlier in the week per year starting in fiscal twenty eight.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you able to model or do the math on

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<v Speaker 2>what these kinds of deals and the value of them

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<v Speaker 2>are to AMD and Video in terms of like number

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<v Speaker 2>of chips that they will send that way, or kind

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<v Speaker 2>of the pipeline of business that they're securing through Oracle.

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<v Speaker 6>To some extent, because there are a lot of assumptions,

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<v Speaker 6>but what we can map is the gigawards to the

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<v Speaker 6>chip spending. So rather than the revenue that Oracle will

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<v Speaker 6>collect the four point five gigabards, assuming that's all brand

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<v Speaker 6>new data center build out, one gigaward approximately in today's term,

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<v Speaker 6>equates to sixty billion dollars of capex, which includes everything

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<v Speaker 6>from chips and hardware. So even if you had to

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<v Speaker 6>like make take conservative stance and cut it half for chips.

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<v Speaker 6>That still leaves you for what every gigaward at least

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<v Speaker 6>thirty billion.

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<v Speaker 3>Dollars Bloomberg Intelligence is congense.

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<v Speaker 2>Vanni, there with the analysis, we had the reporting, We

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<v Speaker 2>got the analysis.

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<v Speaker 3>Now let's get the market reaction.

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<v Speaker 2>Janet Murray, head of market analysis at RBC Berandolphin, found

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<v Speaker 2>it really interesting these big capital projects in infrastructure just

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<v Speaker 2>keep coming. What does that signal to you about what

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<v Speaker 2>the market should model for in the coming years ahead?

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<v Speaker 6>As thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 7>I think the significance of this deal is that the

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<v Speaker 7>demountable computing power is just incestiable. And remember when deep

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<v Speaker 7>SIK come out, a lot of investors were worries that

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<v Speaker 7>actually they may not be the need for so much

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<v Speaker 7>computing power if the modeling is so efficient, But actually

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<v Speaker 7>that's not true. We see that there is high visibility

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<v Speaker 7>of the scale of the investment by sovereigns, by hyperscalars

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<v Speaker 7>and many corporates. So I guess this is really the

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<v Speaker 7>big conclusion is that the runway still is still very

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<v Speaker 7>long and the incentive to invest is still very high.

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<v Speaker 7>So I think the theme of investment in a particularly

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<v Speaker 7>in semiconductors and cloud which are the AI infrastructure is particalarly.

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<v Speaker 2>Relevant Janet and Brodie's reporting. He's saying that this expansion

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<v Speaker 2>between Oracle and Open AI is four point five giggle

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<v Speaker 2>watt's worth of capacity and in the context of energy,

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<v Speaker 2>you could power this country at that scale. How do

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<v Speaker 2>you think about the energy sector and the energy infrastructure

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<v Speaker 2>requirements that markets are going to have to fund to

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<v Speaker 2>support these types of data center expansion.

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<v Speaker 7>Again, I think the utility side energy side of things

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<v Speaker 7>goes hand in hand with the need for from shooting power,

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<v Speaker 7>and that's why we have seen our hyperscalar like meta

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<v Speaker 7>investing in nuclear energy for example. So I think the

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<v Speaker 7>quest or cheaper, more efficient energy would be there, and

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<v Speaker 7>I think that is why I think the US warming

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<v Speaker 7>basically the region that would lead the AI race, because

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<v Speaker 7>the US is basically self sufficient in the energy production

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<v Speaker 7>relatively cheaper energy compared to say Europe and for example,

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<v Speaker 7>the UK. So I guess that's a very important conclusion,

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<v Speaker 7>is that there is incentive for companies to invest and

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<v Speaker 7>base their production in the US to access is cheap

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<v Speaker 7>energy base.

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<v Speaker 2>Janet, the story this Thursday is treasuries are falling, the

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<v Speaker 2>dollar is stronger, and equity markets, particularly the technology sector,

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<v Speaker 2>pushing fresh record highs on the Nasdaq one hundred. Give

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<v Speaker 2>me your reaction to the jobs data and the coprint

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<v Speaker 2>that we got this morning.

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<v Speaker 7>Well, I would say that data is basically goldilots because

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<v Speaker 7>on one hand, you get better than expected jobs data

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<v Speaker 7>in general a softening trend, but it's still okay. It's

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<v Speaker 7>still reflective of a solid labor market. An employment rate

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<v Speaker 7>is lower, and at the same time, wage growth is

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<v Speaker 7>actually slower despite a shrinking labor force. So I would

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<v Speaker 7>say it's a goldilocks, which market clearly likes. And I

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<v Speaker 7>think the conclusion is that the Federal Reserve really is

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<v Speaker 7>in urgency to cut raise. But that's fine because I

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<v Speaker 7>think the markets would prefer the evidence of a strong

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<v Speaker 7>labor market rather than fretting over the exact timing of

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<v Speaker 7>the rate cut.

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<v Speaker 2>I do see some outperformance in technology. Why is that?

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<v Speaker 2>Why is that? Is it just a waiting issue right

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<v Speaker 2>now and technology is what this market is or is

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<v Speaker 2>there something in this economy and the path forward for

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<v Speaker 2>the Fed that makes this sector more attractive right now?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 7>I guess there are lots of reasons right. First of all,

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<v Speaker 7>in terms of earning it's growth profile, technology is still

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<v Speaker 7>the brightest spot out there, as I mentioned, a clear

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<v Speaker 7>visibility on AI investment. I think secondly, I think in

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<v Speaker 7>terms of the productivity gains, I think the tech sector

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<v Speaker 7>is likely to see or have a lot of those

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<v Speaker 7>productivity surplus. And of course, I think in terms of

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<v Speaker 7>the US market, I think the tech sector is where

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<v Speaker 7>the actionists to access the aif them et cetera, and

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<v Speaker 7>if we see for example, rape cuss really coming by.

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<v Speaker 7>I think law barn Yiel's law interest rate also partically

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<v Speaker 7>benefit those growth areas as well. So really a combination

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<v Speaker 7>of factors.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're a technology investor, that was the what you

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<v Speaker 2>needed to know. Janet Mouri, head of market analysis at

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<v Speaker 2>RBC BRA and Dolphin, thank you very much. There is

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<v Speaker 2>a lot more coming up the house pools and all

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<v Speaker 2>nighter as Republicans race to get a tax bill to

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<v Speaker 2>President Trump's desk before their July fourth deadline. We're going

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<v Speaker 2>to live to Washington, DC next and we will have

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<v Speaker 2>the latest on where things stand.

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<v Speaker 3>Don't go anywhere. This is Bloomberg Tech.

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<v Speaker 8>Live, the good life, good name.

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<v Speaker 3>Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech.

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<v Speaker 2>You're looking at live pictures from Capitol Hill where House

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<v Speaker 2>Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries is delivering a blistering rebuttal of

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<v Speaker 2>the tax bill that's now going into its sixth hour.

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<v Speaker 3>Here with the very.

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<v Speaker 2>Latest, Bloomberg's Tyler Canda out in Washington, DC. What is

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<v Speaker 2>the latest? What do we expect to happen? What do

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<v Speaker 2>we need to know?

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, hey, Ed, So, the House Democratic Leader Hawking Jeffries

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<v Speaker 5>has something known as the magic minute, which means that

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<v Speaker 5>he can speak for however long as he wants, and

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<v Speaker 5>as you mentioned, he started at four fifty three am Eastern,

0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:26.880
<v Speaker 5>so we could be in this for the long haul.

0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:29.320
<v Speaker 5>But it really does feel like they're sort of delaying

0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:33.079
<v Speaker 5>the inevitable because Republicans a pure poised to pass President

0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:36.520
<v Speaker 5>Trump's signature legislative Achievement, which would be the one big,

0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:40.160
<v Speaker 5>beautiful bill. Once Leader Jeffries is done speaking, House Speaker

0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.720
<v Speaker 5>Mike Johnson might take the mic, or they could try

0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:44.320
<v Speaker 5>to get this done as soon as possible and this

0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:48.120
<v Speaker 5>would proceed immediately to a vote on finalized passage. Once

0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:50.560
<v Speaker 5>that happens, we're looking for that magic number of two

0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.560
<v Speaker 5>hundred and seventeen, which means House Speaker Mike Johnson can

0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:56.480
<v Speaker 5>only afford to lose three votes, but he appears to

0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.200
<v Speaker 5>have it. It seems like Republican leadership was able to

0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:02.120
<v Speaker 5>flip some of the staunches critics of this bill, those

0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:05.240
<v Speaker 5>members of the House Freedom Caucus, those Republicans that were

0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:08.520
<v Speaker 5>pitching themselves as fiscal hawks, and our reporting on the

0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.040
<v Speaker 5>Hill this morning indicates that they did get some sort

0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:13.960
<v Speaker 5>of concessions and assurances from this White House in order

0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:15.920
<v Speaker 5>to flip their votes, including one that I know that

0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.120
<v Speaker 5>you pay close attention to, which is when it comes

0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:20.840
<v Speaker 5>to the phase out of those clean energy tax credits.

0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.840
<v Speaker 5>Ralph Norman told our reporter on the Hill today that

0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:25.839
<v Speaker 5>one of the assurances that the White House gave them

0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.320
<v Speaker 5>was that there would be strict enforcement when it does

0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:31.880
<v Speaker 5>come to the phase out, particularly around solar and win

0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:35.839
<v Speaker 5>tax subsidies. So that's something to look forward and look

0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.440
<v Speaker 5>out to as we try to glean more details on

0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.280
<v Speaker 5>exactly what it took to get these Republicans to flip

0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.200
<v Speaker 5>their vote when it came to the procedural vote.

0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:47.199
<v Speaker 2>Earlier this morning, tailer technology markets in real time and

0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.640
<v Speaker 2>as that one hundred already pushing fresh record high is

0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:51.920
<v Speaker 2>now extending its gain in the session to one percent.

0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.560
<v Speaker 2>It is a short week because it is a July

0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.520
<v Speaker 2>fourth holiday this Friday in the United States. There's a

0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:01.040
<v Speaker 2>lot being made of, like the symbolism of the President

0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:03.680
<v Speaker 2>signing this bill July and fourth. I heard you speaking

0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:05.439
<v Speaker 2>with Bloombogs, Matt and Miner about that earlier.

0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:07.520
<v Speaker 3>Why is that symbolism.

0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:11.520
<v Speaker 5>There, Well, it really was this self imposed deadline from

0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.120
<v Speaker 5>the administration that they wanted to get this done by

0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:17.199
<v Speaker 5>July fourth. We are expecting a pretty big signing ceremony

0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:20.280
<v Speaker 5>either later today or tomorrow, so that President Trump can

0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:24.040
<v Speaker 5>tout this legislative achievement that they're really hoping we'll pair

0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.880
<v Speaker 5>with some of these potential trade deals frameworks that we

0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:31.120
<v Speaker 5>could get next week ahead of that July ninth deadline

0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.480
<v Speaker 5>that they have put into effect. Because the administration is

0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:35.520
<v Speaker 5>really hoping for a few different things to happen here.

0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.560
<v Speaker 5>They want to see a confluence really of economic factors

0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:40.880
<v Speaker 5>going into the summer so that they can help push

0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:44.440
<v Speaker 5>ahead when it comes to President Trump's economic agenda. Now,

0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.200
<v Speaker 5>of course they're dealing with criticism. We have the House Speaker,

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.800
<v Speaker 5>for example, railing against some of the changes when it

0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.240
<v Speaker 5>comes to Medicaid. But this administration is really trying to

0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.440
<v Speaker 5>focus people on this idea of stabilizing the debt to GDP. Yes,

0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.240
<v Speaker 5>this bill is going to add significantly to the national debt,

0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:00.320
<v Speaker 5>but it is the other policies that they're looking to

0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.080
<v Speaker 5>put into place that ultimately they say will help grow

0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:03.680
<v Speaker 5>the economy.

0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:06.880
<v Speaker 2>The national debt pile the big focus of Elon Musk,

0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.920
<v Speaker 2>as we've discussed all week, Bloomberg Tyler Kendall terrific work

0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:10.960
<v Speaker 2>out in Washington, DC.

0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:13.400
<v Speaker 3>Thank you very much. Let's get to another big story.

0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:16.880
<v Speaker 2>The US and China are beginning to implement their recent

0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.240
<v Speaker 2>trade deals, and as part of that, there's some easing

0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:24.320
<v Speaker 2>of restrictions on critical technologies, including export license requirements for

0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:29.240
<v Speaker 2>chip design, software sales, particularly in China. Bloomberg's Peter Elstrom,

0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.240
<v Speaker 2>who leads the team in covering Asia tech and European tech,

0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.560
<v Speaker 2>is with us. So what we're talking about is EDA

0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.720
<v Speaker 2>and as of last night, we're hearing from the key players,

0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.320
<v Speaker 2>the key names in the DA space that they're now

0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:41.680
<v Speaker 2>free to do business in China.

0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:42.440
<v Speaker 3>What do we need to know?

0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:45.960
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, that's right. So this is a strange one. It

0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:48.280
<v Speaker 9>was just in May when we found out from the

0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:51.479
<v Speaker 9>companies that they were going to have these export restrictions

0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.640
<v Speaker 9>on China. Their EDA software is necessary to be able

0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:57.320
<v Speaker 9>to design semiconductors. It was also strange the way that

0:15:57.360 --> 0:15:59.880
<v Speaker 9>it got announced. It was the companies that actually were

0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.560
<v Speaker 9>these new restrictions, it was not the Commerce Department, which

0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:05.360
<v Speaker 9>is the agency behind that. Again this time it's kind

0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:08.680
<v Speaker 9>of similar. We had Semens come out first. Cadence Design

0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.600
<v Speaker 9>Systems and Synopsis are also affected here. They came out

0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:13.720
<v Speaker 9>and then they said it in fact, those restrictions are

0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:15.640
<v Speaker 9>now being rolled back. They're not going to have the

0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:19.000
<v Speaker 9>same kind of restrictions on servicing and supporting selling into

0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:20.680
<v Speaker 9>China to support their customers.

0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:21.560
<v Speaker 3>So what's going on.

0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.240
<v Speaker 9>Behind the scenes? As you say, the US and China

0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:26.880
<v Speaker 9>are now in the middle of East trade negotiations. Back

0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:29.440
<v Speaker 9>in May, China was kind of playing tough. They were

0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.320
<v Speaker 9>not exporting some of the rare earth the minerals that

0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:37.120
<v Speaker 9>American companies needed. Now that the negotiations are preceding, China

0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:39.760
<v Speaker 9>struck this tentative agreement to be able to ship those again.

0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:41.840
<v Speaker 9>In the US and China are coming back to the

0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:44.320
<v Speaker 9>table and as a result, these companies are going to

0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:46.880
<v Speaker 9>have a little bit more breathing space. But that's very unusual.

0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.480
<v Speaker 9>You've got export controls, which are typically national security issues

0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.160
<v Speaker 9>now being traded as part of the trade negotiations.

0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:57.560
<v Speaker 2>We're seeing some of the chip makers push higher, but

0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.240
<v Speaker 2>really the stories around the software name, Cadencenopsis, the two

0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:03.200
<v Speaker 2>that you mentioned also pushing higher. Will show those in

0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:06.920
<v Speaker 2>just a second. The modern day cutting edge chip has

0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.520
<v Speaker 2>billions of transistors. Right, No human brain can do the

0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.360
<v Speaker 2>blueprint or designed for that. But there is some concern

0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:17.359
<v Speaker 2>here that Huawei, in particular, if they are having free

0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:20.399
<v Speaker 2>access to EDA, that they can use that technology in

0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.240
<v Speaker 2>that software platform to close the gap a little bit,

0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, design their own cutting edge chips. Why is

0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:30.439
<v Speaker 2>America not more concerned about that, Peter, Yeah, that's a.

0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:36.160
<v Speaker 9>Key issue in the technology race between the two countries.

0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:40.400
<v Speaker 9>You have the US ahead and a few different key areas.

0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:43.440
<v Speaker 9>In particular, DA is one of the most important ones.

0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.320
<v Speaker 9>Of course, semiconductor equipment is another one. The Netherlands ASML

0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.320
<v Speaker 9>is by far the leading player. While Way however, has

0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:52.520
<v Speaker 9>been able to break through some of these barriers. It's

0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.240
<v Speaker 9>become a national champion for China. It's helped try to

0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.800
<v Speaker 9>focus on some of these key bottlenecks that they have.

0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:00.680
<v Speaker 9>DA is one of the key areas, or if they're

0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.480
<v Speaker 9>able to use these tools, they can step ahead and

0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:07.119
<v Speaker 9>design some of these chips. They have the surprise the world,

0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:10.720
<v Speaker 9>i'd say, with some of their advancements and semiconductors, particularly

0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:13.240
<v Speaker 9>this seven nanometer chip that they used in one of

0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.679
<v Speaker 9>their smartphones in the past. But now they have not

0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:18.439
<v Speaker 9>been able to make some of the progress, have not

0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:20.920
<v Speaker 9>been able to move forward quite as quickly. So these

0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:22.640
<v Speaker 9>tools are going to help them make some of those

0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.320
<v Speaker 9>steps going forward again. That's why it's so surprising that

0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:29.000
<v Speaker 9>they're trading this away in the negotiations between the US

0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:29.880
<v Speaker 9>and China.

0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:33.639
<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg's executive editor for Global Technology, Peter Elstrom, thank you

0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:42.440
<v Speaker 2>so much. It's time for talking tech, and first up,

0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:46.160
<v Speaker 2>Deep Seek ramps up hiring. The Chinese AI startup posted

0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.960
<v Speaker 2>ten positions on LinkedIn, indicating it maybe looking to lure

0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:52.880
<v Speaker 2>talent from outside of its homeland. The listings include three

0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:56.840
<v Speaker 2>roles focused on general intelligence, with the positions based in

0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:01.600
<v Speaker 2>Beijing and Han Joe plus ASML and other European semiconductor

0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.600
<v Speaker 2>stocks extended losses. Today, there was a report from Nicky

0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:08.240
<v Speaker 2>Asia that said Samsung would be delaying its completion of

0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:12.200
<v Speaker 2>a chip factory in Texas. The report, citing sources, says

0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:15.560
<v Speaker 2>the delay is due to Samsung struggling to find customers

0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:18.520
<v Speaker 2>for the plant's output and some news that broke this hour.

0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Core Weaves the first company to receive the latest AI

0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:26.359
<v Speaker 2>system based on Nvidia's newest chip. Dell delivered the first

0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.800
<v Speaker 2>GB three hundred MVL seventy two.

0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:31.640
<v Speaker 3>Rack of servers to core Weave and would deploy them.

0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:33.840
<v Speaker 2>In the US, with core Weave aiming to bring more

0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:36.639
<v Speaker 2>of the tech online throughout the year. Open AI is

0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.600
<v Speaker 2>one of Corweave's customers and the infrastructural players, saying the

0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:43.760
<v Speaker 2>new systems will work well for larger, more complex models.

0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:45.959
<v Speaker 2>That's the reporting, that's the detail. I want to get

0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.040
<v Speaker 2>some more analysis on this. One man deep seeing of

0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:52.880
<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg Intelligence is with us. There's this like constant tracking

0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:59.280
<v Speaker 2>of the launch and ramp of Nvidia's latest generation server

0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:02.600
<v Speaker 2>design that has the latest generation chip and chip combination

0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:02.920
<v Speaker 2>in it.

0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:05.439
<v Speaker 3>Col Weave goes first, what do you make of that?

0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.680
<v Speaker 8>Well, when I look at in video's release cycle, they

0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.000
<v Speaker 8>are on a one year rhythm and in between that

0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.359
<v Speaker 8>year now they are launching the black Vell Ultra before

0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:20.080
<v Speaker 8>the Ruben series comes online. And look, they're almost giving

0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:23.240
<v Speaker 8>a fifty percent performance upgrade with the black Vel Ultra

0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:28.359
<v Speaker 8>in terms of token processing. So from that perspective, Corviv

0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:32.160
<v Speaker 8>having that chip first really gives them a leg up

0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:36.040
<v Speaker 8>over the hyperscalers, which will also get their in Vidia allocation.

0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:39.320
<v Speaker 8>But for Corviv, you know they have a backlog of

0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:43.480
<v Speaker 8>about twenty six billion. To convert that backlock to revenue,

0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:48.440
<v Speaker 8>you need the most kind of impressive in Vidio chips

0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:51.960
<v Speaker 8>first and that helps with the faster backlock conversion.

0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.720
<v Speaker 10>So really good news for Corevive, especially on the training front,

0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:58.960
<v Speaker 10>because a lot of these latest black Ultra chips I

0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.439
<v Speaker 10>believe will be used for training and then the older

0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:03.920
<v Speaker 10>series will be used for in printing over time.

0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:07.920
<v Speaker 2>So call we've stock really pushed higher after news came out.

0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:10.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm also looking at Dell, like, help us understand the

0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:12.200
<v Speaker 2>Dell component in this ecosystem.

0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:16.000
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, well, Dell is the one who is making that server,

0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:19.919
<v Speaker 8>So in Vidia is providing the chip and krviv is

0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:24.679
<v Speaker 8>really bringing those racks and the servers online to be

0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:29.199
<v Speaker 8>consumed in a cloud consumption model. But Dell is the

0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:33.960
<v Speaker 8>one who is actually assembling that server and making sure

0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:37.400
<v Speaker 8>that it can be delivered to coreviv. So from that perspective,

0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:40.040
<v Speaker 8>they are part of that supply chain and it's a

0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:43.159
<v Speaker 8>good thing that they get to, you know, do that

0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:48.040
<v Speaker 8>for Nvidia before any other server maker like Quanta or

0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:50.920
<v Speaker 8>you know, any other Chinese OEMs come into play.

0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:54.720
<v Speaker 2>Very quick, we just have twenty seconds, Mandy, Well, what's

0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:57.080
<v Speaker 2>the BI big picture thesis right now on how this

0:21:57.160 --> 0:21:58.760
<v Speaker 2>AI infrastructure build outs going.

0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:02.840
<v Speaker 8>I mean, Oracle and open Ai really raised up the

0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:06.000
<v Speaker 8>ante when it comes to you know, their big announcement

0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:09.399
<v Speaker 8>the thirty billion dollar contract and now this news. So

0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:13.760
<v Speaker 8>to my mind, you know, the infrastructure supercycle is really

0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:16.639
<v Speaker 8>playing out and you're seeing that right now.

0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:20.240
<v Speaker 2>Man, keep seeing Bloomberg Intelligence of BI. Great to have

0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:24.360
<v Speaker 2>the reaction here on the show.

0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:30.040
<v Speaker 3>Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech.

0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:31.720
<v Speaker 2>Let's get right to the markets and I'll start with

0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:33.880
<v Speaker 2>the technology sector in the acuity market. Right then, a's

0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:37.439
<v Speaker 2>that one hundred continuing to push fresh record highs. But

0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:41.359
<v Speaker 2>we got the job's data for June strong labor market,

0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:45.120
<v Speaker 2>and the story is really clear. Equities pushed higher outperformance

0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:48.280
<v Speaker 2>in the tech sector, but you also saw treasuries full

0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:51.280
<v Speaker 2>the dollar strengthen. Take all of that in aggregate. It's

0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:53.480
<v Speaker 2>really important. This is what the bomb market looks like.

0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:55.639
<v Speaker 2>I know we go there less often, but there is

0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:59.040
<v Speaker 2>always a relationship between what's happening in yields and particularly

0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:02.840
<v Speaker 2>valuations around technology sector. Now, this was the blowout jobs report,

0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:04.439
<v Speaker 2>and there's any one guy that I want to go

0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:07.720
<v Speaker 2>to on a daylight today, that's Bloomberg's Economics and Policy

0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:09.480
<v Speaker 2>correspondent Michael McKee.

0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:11.080
<v Speaker 3>As you know, I just don't know.

0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:14.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't really understand the granularity of the job's data,

0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:17.000
<v Speaker 2>the revisions, the changes, what is the need to know

0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:20.840
<v Speaker 2>in June, and the kind of explanation for why markets

0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:21.920
<v Speaker 2>reacted the way they did.

0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:22.960
<v Speaker 3>Well.

0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:25.680
<v Speaker 11>The explanation for why markets reacted the way they did

0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:29.320
<v Speaker 11>is fairly simple. The economy seems stronger than it was

0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:32.680
<v Speaker 11>expected to be, and that would suggest that corporate earnings

0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:36.120
<v Speaker 11>can stay strong. But this is a report that looks

0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:39.440
<v Speaker 11>better on the surface than it does underneath. It's not terrible,

0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:41.479
<v Speaker 11>but it's not as great as it looks. We had

0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:44.760
<v Speaker 11>one hundred and forty seven thousand jobs created, and the

0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:48.239
<v Speaker 11>unemployment rate falls to four point one percent. But of

0:23:48.280 --> 0:23:51.680
<v Speaker 11>those one hundred and forty seven thousand jobs, seventy three

0:23:51.760 --> 0:23:53.920
<v Speaker 11>thousand were in government employment.

0:23:54.040 --> 0:23:54.760
<v Speaker 3>Most of that.

0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:59.240
<v Speaker 11>State and local education schools are out in June, so

0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:02.720
<v Speaker 11>there's probably a seasonal adjustment problem with these numbers that

0:24:02.760 --> 0:24:06.919
<v Speaker 11>will cause them to be revised lower. Private payrolls were

0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:10.760
<v Speaker 11>up only seventy four thousand. That's lower than we had

0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:14.199
<v Speaker 11>been seeing, so there is some concern about all this.

0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:16.880
<v Speaker 11>And of course the unemployment rate falls because one hundred

0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:18.919
<v Speaker 11>and thirty thousand people left the labor force, so ed

0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:24.040
<v Speaker 11>not quite as good as anticipated, and of course we

0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:26.080
<v Speaker 11>want to know how they're doing out in.

0:24:25.920 --> 0:24:26.959
<v Speaker 3>Your neck of the woods.

0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:31.000
<v Speaker 11>We lost five thousand jobs in computer manufacturing, another thousand

0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:37.080
<v Speaker 11>in semiconductor manufacturing. Web search portals and hosting lost three

0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:40.359
<v Speaker 11>hundred jobs, so on the tech side not so great either.

0:24:41.920 --> 0:24:46.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm really grateful for that level of detail on the

0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:49.479
<v Speaker 2>tech sect, like we're going to go deep into what

0:24:49.520 --> 0:24:51.800
<v Speaker 2>the environment is right now, particularly in software with our

0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:55.040
<v Speaker 2>next guest, But what I'm seeing on the news cycle

0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:57.960
<v Speaker 2>and timel this morning is very FED related a lot

0:24:57.960 --> 0:25:01.080
<v Speaker 2>of questions directed towards the administration and about what the

0:25:01.080 --> 0:25:02.159
<v Speaker 2>FED should or shouldn't do.

0:25:02.280 --> 0:25:06.359
<v Speaker 11>Why is that, Well, everybody wants lower interest rates because

0:25:06.400 --> 0:25:08.919
<v Speaker 11>of course it's going to mean higher corporate profits. But

0:25:09.600 --> 0:25:12.439
<v Speaker 11>this report pretty much pushes the FED out of that.

0:25:12.600 --> 0:25:14.800
<v Speaker 11>For the July meeting, there was only a couple of

0:25:14.800 --> 0:25:18.560
<v Speaker 11>FED officials who were talking about July. September still stays

0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:22.040
<v Speaker 11>on the calendar as the most likely first month for

0:25:22.280 --> 0:25:24.960
<v Speaker 11>a rate cut. We'll see what happens next week when

0:25:25.000 --> 0:25:28.280
<v Speaker 11>we get the CPI report on the fifteenth. That could

0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:32.119
<v Speaker 11>make a difference to the Fed. But at this point

0:25:32.520 --> 0:25:35.159
<v Speaker 11>it looks like the Fed stays on hold. And of

0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:38.879
<v Speaker 11>course the President will keep tweeting that he doesn't like j.

0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:39.280
<v Speaker 12>Powell.

0:25:40.840 --> 0:25:45.400
<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg's Michael McKee, International Economics and Policy correspondent. It's great

0:25:45.400 --> 0:25:47.840
<v Speaker 2>to have you back on Bloomberg Tech. Let's get right

0:25:47.920 --> 0:25:50.399
<v Speaker 2>to tech and more on the jobs outlook in the sector.

0:25:50.880 --> 0:25:55.520
<v Speaker 2>Eric Wosakowski is the Bespoke Partner's CEO, an absolute specialist

0:25:56.080 --> 0:25:59.960
<v Speaker 2>in executive search, particularly in the fields of SaaS software

0:26:00.119 --> 0:26:03.760
<v Speaker 2>also private equity here in the United States, and I

0:26:03.800 --> 0:26:06.200
<v Speaker 2>want to talk about what that market is like right now,

0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:08.359
<v Speaker 2>particularly at the higher end. There's been so much in

0:26:08.400 --> 0:26:12.479
<v Speaker 2>the news cycle about talent poaching. Frankly, but just on

0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:15.199
<v Speaker 2>the data this morning, was there any read through for

0:26:15.280 --> 0:26:18.199
<v Speaker 2>you that directly correlates to what you're seeing in the

0:26:18.240 --> 0:26:19.159
<v Speaker 2>technology sector?

0:26:20.600 --> 0:26:20.679
<v Speaker 8>Ed?

0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:22.520
<v Speaker 13>Thank you for having me on. I tend to agree

0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:25.720
<v Speaker 13>with Michael. I think the headline news sounds fantastic, but

0:26:25.760 --> 0:26:28.160
<v Speaker 13>I think when you peel back the onion, private sector jobs,

0:26:28.200 --> 0:26:34.440
<v Speaker 13>particularly in tech and innovation, are flat. CEOs today are

0:26:35.000 --> 0:26:37.960
<v Speaker 13>trading on uncertainty in the market, whether it be the

0:26:38.000 --> 0:26:41.480
<v Speaker 13>impact of the tariffs, the geopolitical environment. That said, I

0:26:41.520 --> 0:26:44.439
<v Speaker 13>don't think it's a negative situation because I think what

0:26:44.480 --> 0:26:47.720
<v Speaker 13>we saw yesterday with Microsoft announcing they're cutting more jobs

0:26:48.080 --> 0:26:50.920
<v Speaker 13>is CEOs over the last six months have really tightened

0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:55.199
<v Speaker 13>their belt to see how the market pivots. If we

0:26:55.240 --> 0:26:58.160
<v Speaker 13>get negative implications from tariffs, they're going to be able

0:26:58.160 --> 0:27:00.960
<v Speaker 13>to weather the storm. But I actually think the underpinnings

0:27:01.000 --> 0:27:04.000
<v Speaker 13>here are on a positive economy in the next six

0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:06.840
<v Speaker 13>to twelve months, a strong future, and I think CEOs

0:27:06.840 --> 0:27:10.000
<v Speaker 13>are sitting back with capital to invest. Is they get

0:27:10.000 --> 0:27:12.960
<v Speaker 13>favorable news on tariffs in the geopolitical environments and hopefully

0:27:13.000 --> 0:27:13.480
<v Speaker 13>a rate cut.

0:27:15.040 --> 0:27:18.760
<v Speaker 2>We did hear from the administration, so to speak. This morning,

0:27:19.119 --> 0:27:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Stephen Moran gave an interview to Open Interest, one of

0:27:22.040 --> 0:27:25.040
<v Speaker 2>our earlier shows. He leads the Council of Economic Advisors.

0:27:25.240 --> 0:27:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Let's listen to what he said.

0:27:28.359 --> 0:27:31.240
<v Speaker 14>What we see is an economy that continues to continues

0:27:31.280 --> 0:27:34.840
<v Speaker 14>to defy expectations, continues to define all the doom and

0:27:34.840 --> 0:27:36.800
<v Speaker 14>gloom that's out there, whether it's about the border, or

0:27:36.800 --> 0:27:40.159
<v Speaker 14>immigration or tariffs, just labor market continues to power ahead.

0:27:40.240 --> 0:27:43.360
<v Speaker 14>There were tons of predictions that there'd be a disaster

0:27:43.440 --> 0:27:46.200
<v Speaker 14>of labor market because of the border policies, and nothing

0:27:46.240 --> 0:27:48.520
<v Speaker 14>could be further from the truth. The economy continues to

0:27:48.560 --> 0:27:50.560
<v Speaker 14>create jobs, and if you look at the details of

0:27:50.600 --> 0:27:52.639
<v Speaker 14>the jobs, all of the job gains since the president

0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:55.160
<v Speaker 14>of office are due to native born Americans, and there's

0:27:55.160 --> 0:27:57.600
<v Speaker 14>actually been a decline in foreign born worker which means

0:27:57.640 --> 0:27:59.920
<v Speaker 14>that all of the benefits of the expanding economy are

0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:04.240
<v Speaker 14>recurring to Americans instead of migrants.

0:28:05.400 --> 0:28:10.440
<v Speaker 2>What Stephen outlined, they're seeing in the relationship between policy

0:28:10.760 --> 0:28:14.639
<v Speaker 2>and how it impacts fiscal policy and political policy and

0:28:14.680 --> 0:28:17.960
<v Speaker 2>how it impacts the jobs market. Do you see what

0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:21.639
<v Speaker 2>he explained reflected in software and SATs.

0:28:23.240 --> 0:28:25.560
<v Speaker 13>I don't think it's reflected yet. I think there's an

0:28:25.600 --> 0:28:29.600
<v Speaker 13>opportunity going forward because the largest creator of high paying

0:28:29.680 --> 0:28:33.280
<v Speaker 13>good jobs in the United States is innovation and private equity.

0:28:33.320 --> 0:28:34.879
<v Speaker 13>And I think when we look at the number of

0:28:34.960 --> 0:28:38.160
<v Speaker 13>deals that are done in private equity, the investment that's happening,

0:28:38.160 --> 0:28:40.360
<v Speaker 13>I think we're still in a wait and see mode.

0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:42.480
<v Speaker 13>I think if you look year over year, the number

0:28:42.480 --> 0:28:46.719
<v Speaker 13>of private equity deals is down. That said, in speaking

0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:50.200
<v Speaker 13>with the investment banking firms, their mandate pipelines are full.

0:28:50.280 --> 0:28:52.840
<v Speaker 13>In speaking with our private equity clients, they're reviewing a

0:28:52.840 --> 0:28:55.680
<v Speaker 13>record number of new deals. And I think the next

0:28:55.720 --> 0:28:57.560
<v Speaker 13>six to twelve months, I really think we're going to

0:28:57.600 --> 0:29:00.560
<v Speaker 13>start to see the deal activity pick, which is going

0:29:00.600 --> 0:29:02.080
<v Speaker 13>to fuel investment in jobs.

0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:10.280
<v Speaker 2>So the big story has been mister Mark Zuckerberg, according

0:29:10.320 --> 0:29:14.120
<v Speaker 2>to mister Sam Outman, the CEO of Open Ai, approaching

0:29:14.200 --> 0:29:16.800
<v Speaker 2>talent in the field of AI, but let's call it

0:29:16.880 --> 0:29:23.000
<v Speaker 2>software and offering. According to Sam Outman, pay packages of

0:29:23.000 --> 0:29:24.800
<v Speaker 2>one hundred million US dollars.

0:29:25.680 --> 0:29:27.520
<v Speaker 3>Is that the kind of market that you're seeing.

0:29:27.520 --> 0:29:31.840
<v Speaker 13>This is what you specialize in absolutely, and we're not

0:29:31.920 --> 0:29:34.920
<v Speaker 13>privy to those particular deals. But I think the labor

0:29:35.000 --> 0:29:39.560
<v Speaker 13>market at the high end in software tech SaaS is

0:29:39.720 --> 0:29:42.480
<v Speaker 13>very tight because you don't have that natural flow of

0:29:42.520 --> 0:29:46.040
<v Speaker 13>deals and exits that creates natural term You've got a

0:29:46.120 --> 0:29:49.920
<v Speaker 13>number of assets that are at the ready to transact

0:29:49.920 --> 0:29:53.840
<v Speaker 13>in the next six to eighteen months, and so executives

0:29:53.840 --> 0:29:56.240
<v Speaker 13>today are not reticent to make a move, and so

0:29:56.360 --> 0:29:59.840
<v Speaker 13>that notion of poaching, the notion of having to overpay

0:30:00.040 --> 0:30:03.600
<v Speaker 13>to attract star executives for those open roles you need,

0:30:04.280 --> 0:30:09.080
<v Speaker 13>is absolutely happening. The premium proven executives are at a

0:30:09.120 --> 0:30:12.680
<v Speaker 13>premium right now, and that's why they're demanding outsize pay

0:30:13.080 --> 0:30:16.600
<v Speaker 13>AI is clearly another area that's on the frontier. The

0:30:16.600 --> 0:30:20.600
<v Speaker 13>top executives that are leading way there are demanding outsized

0:30:20.600 --> 0:30:21.280
<v Speaker 13>pay packages.

0:30:22.480 --> 0:30:25.840
<v Speaker 2>Eric just very quickly, how does Bespoke use technology to

0:30:25.880 --> 0:30:28.000
<v Speaker 2>find a solution in that type market.

0:30:28.760 --> 0:30:31.080
<v Speaker 13>So we have, as far as I know, the first

0:30:31.120 --> 0:30:36.240
<v Speaker 13>executive index in executive recruiting. It's focused particularly on the

0:30:36.280 --> 0:30:39.880
<v Speaker 13>software market. We used AI and mL to index six

0:30:40.040 --> 0:30:44.240
<v Speaker 13>hundred and seventy six thousand software executives in North America.

0:30:44.600 --> 0:30:49.840
<v Speaker 13>The technology gives us key indicators on job fits, propensity

0:30:49.880 --> 0:30:53.320
<v Speaker 13>to make a move and the like, and so we,

0:30:53.360 --> 0:30:55.479
<v Speaker 13>as far as I know, are the first and are

0:30:55.520 --> 0:30:58.880
<v Speaker 13>going to continue to push the envelope on technology and recruiting.

0:31:00.960 --> 0:31:03.320
<v Speaker 2>Eric Walzakowski, it's great to have you on the program,

0:31:03.440 --> 0:31:06.320
<v Speaker 2>Bespoke Partner's CEO on this job's Day, but also there's

0:31:06.320 --> 0:31:08.920
<v Speaker 2>so much conversation around what's happening right now in the

0:31:08.960 --> 0:31:10.200
<v Speaker 2>technology jobs market.

0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:11.000
<v Speaker 3>Thank you very much.

0:31:11.040 --> 0:31:11.120
<v Speaker 5>So.

0:31:11.240 --> 0:31:14.479
<v Speaker 2>Coming up, Amy Saper from Uncoort Capital joins us talk

0:31:14.520 --> 0:31:18.600
<v Speaker 2>about the state of seed stage investing and competition to

0:31:18.680 --> 0:31:21.040
<v Speaker 2>get in early. How common a theme has that been

0:31:21.040 --> 0:31:23.720
<v Speaker 2>in recent weeks? Really looking forward to this one. Stay tuned.

0:31:23.800 --> 0:31:24.400
<v Speaker 2>That's next.

0:31:24.680 --> 0:31:40.800
<v Speaker 3>This is Bloomberg Tech. It's time for the VC Spotlight.

0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Our next guest is a classically trained singer, backed Michael

0:31:45.040 --> 0:31:49.800
<v Speaker 2>Jackson in one of his music videos and competed across California.

0:31:50.040 --> 0:31:52.080
<v Speaker 2>She's also worked at some of the world's most important

0:31:52.120 --> 0:31:56.000
<v Speaker 2>technology companies, Twitter, Uber, and Stripe, and she's now a

0:31:56.040 --> 0:31:59.320
<v Speaker 2>partner at Uncourt Capital, at one point two billion dollar

0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:03.920
<v Speaker 2>venture firm chasing the biggest potential names in AI. Amy

0:32:03.960 --> 0:32:06.880
<v Speaker 2>Safer joins us here in San Francisco, Welcome to the program.

0:32:07.000 --> 0:32:11.520
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having me increasingly on this program. At all

0:32:11.520 --> 0:32:14.120
<v Speaker 2>of the dinners I'm going to, there is a big

0:32:14.160 --> 0:32:19.360
<v Speaker 2>battle to get in earlier. Actually, sometimes founders don't really

0:32:19.440 --> 0:32:23.800
<v Speaker 2>have a fully baked idea. And reading your notes and

0:32:24.040 --> 0:32:27.000
<v Speaker 2>the thesis, but also being subscribed to tasting notes on

0:32:27.120 --> 0:32:30.280
<v Speaker 2>Cork's newsletter, that's kind of where the focus.

0:32:29.960 --> 0:32:31.480
<v Speaker 3>Is right now. Absolutely so.

0:32:31.560 --> 0:32:35.000
<v Speaker 15>Here at Kirk we are focused on seed investing, so

0:32:35.040 --> 0:32:38.760
<v Speaker 15>we typically write the first institutional check into a company.

0:32:39.040 --> 0:32:42.000
<v Speaker 15>We are really excited about what we're seeing in AI,

0:32:42.480 --> 0:32:46.320
<v Speaker 15>and we back founders with a deep belief on a

0:32:46.440 --> 0:32:49.040
<v Speaker 15>new customer segment or a new company, and we're trying

0:32:49.080 --> 0:32:50.840
<v Speaker 15>to back the founders that are building the companies that

0:32:50.840 --> 0:32:53.280
<v Speaker 15>are really going to define this next decade, and virtually

0:32:53.360 --> 0:32:54.880
<v Speaker 15>all of those have AI as they're.

0:32:54.760 --> 0:32:55.640
<v Speaker 3>Undercurrent right now.

0:32:55.720 --> 0:32:59.240
<v Speaker 2>What is also true is that the scale of the

0:32:59.280 --> 0:33:05.000
<v Speaker 2>seed round is being redefined. I see seed rounds in

0:33:05.040 --> 0:33:08.920
<v Speaker 2>the high tens of millions, depending on which sort of

0:33:08.960 --> 0:33:10.520
<v Speaker 2>corner of the technology market it is.

0:33:10.840 --> 0:33:13.160
<v Speaker 3>How has that changed things for you? Yeah, absolutely so.

0:33:13.200 --> 0:33:15.120
<v Speaker 15>I think if you look overall of the seed market,

0:33:15.160 --> 0:33:18.400
<v Speaker 15>it is true that rounds are getting larger. I think

0:33:18.440 --> 0:33:21.600
<v Speaker 15>the average in Q one was over three million, up

0:33:21.640 --> 0:33:25.680
<v Speaker 15>from maybe two and a half last year. So the

0:33:25.800 --> 0:33:28.360
<v Speaker 15>large rounds of the tens and twenty millions do make

0:33:28.360 --> 0:33:30.800
<v Speaker 15>the headlines. Those are not the norm of what we're seeing,

0:33:30.800 --> 0:33:33.800
<v Speaker 15>though they do occur. I do think it's true that

0:33:33.920 --> 0:33:36.880
<v Speaker 15>companies and founders are raising a little bit more reflective

0:33:37.000 --> 0:33:40.520
<v Speaker 15>of the increased expectations that the Series A investors are

0:33:40.560 --> 0:33:42.400
<v Speaker 15>placing relative to a couple of years ago.

0:33:42.960 --> 0:33:45.640
<v Speaker 2>There's what you can do in the field of AI,

0:33:46.280 --> 0:33:49.280
<v Speaker 2>and then there's what you can do with AI. What

0:33:49.400 --> 0:33:51.320
<v Speaker 2>is it that you're looking for in a founder right now?

0:33:51.400 --> 0:33:56.720
<v Speaker 2>Like people would say, well, I'm ANAI adjacent company or

0:33:56.760 --> 0:34:00.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm AI we're native, they might just be using AI

0:34:01.000 --> 0:34:05.080
<v Speaker 2>to do something else. They might be not necessarily developing

0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:07.080
<v Speaker 2>a new technology so to speak.

0:34:07.240 --> 0:34:10.680
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, absolutely, so, I think AI is already rapidly shifting

0:34:10.719 --> 0:34:12.879
<v Speaker 15>from being a sector that you might invest in into

0:34:13.040 --> 0:34:17.160
<v Speaker 15>encompassing every startup so whether their core product is AI native,

0:34:17.480 --> 0:34:20.160
<v Speaker 15>and we do have several of those in our portfolio

0:34:20.520 --> 0:34:24.239
<v Speaker 15>IVO for example, in the Legal Contract Review GPT zero

0:34:24.360 --> 0:34:27.200
<v Speaker 15>for copy editing. We also have companies that are selling

0:34:27.239 --> 0:34:31.520
<v Speaker 15>to AI companies so tail scale counts companies like Mistroll

0:34:31.560 --> 0:34:33.960
<v Speaker 15>and Perplexity and others amongst their customers set and are

0:34:34.000 --> 0:34:37.840
<v Speaker 15>emerging as the de facto networking solution for those AI companies.

0:34:38.200 --> 0:34:42.200
<v Speaker 15>So we are focused on companies that are cognizant that

0:34:42.440 --> 0:34:44.839
<v Speaker 15>the market is changing right now, and so whether they

0:34:44.840 --> 0:34:46.840
<v Speaker 15>are building that into their product, whether they're using it

0:34:46.880 --> 0:34:49.719
<v Speaker 15>in their back office to streamline some of their operations,

0:34:50.000 --> 0:34:52.520
<v Speaker 15>or whether they're selling to AI customers, it really is

0:34:52.560 --> 0:34:53.319
<v Speaker 15>everywhere right now.

0:34:53.480 --> 0:34:57.839
<v Speaker 2>I invite you to reflect on your music career, but

0:34:57.880 --> 0:35:02.240
<v Speaker 2>I think largely your career in technology Stripe Uber, Twitter

0:35:02.360 --> 0:35:04.880
<v Speaker 2>now known as X. Are you more of an operator

0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:08.400
<v Speaker 2>than then traditional finance and how are you helping the

0:35:08.440 --> 0:35:09.400
<v Speaker 2>founders that you're backing.

0:35:09.600 --> 0:35:09.799
<v Speaker 16>Yeah.

0:35:09.800 --> 0:35:10.320
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely.

0:35:10.360 --> 0:35:13.080
<v Speaker 15>I leverage my operating career every day, and I will

0:35:13.080 --> 0:35:15.240
<v Speaker 15>say my background is a mix of product, product marketing,

0:35:15.320 --> 0:35:18.799
<v Speaker 15>international expansion. I use the product marketing side far more

0:35:18.840 --> 0:35:22.880
<v Speaker 15>than I thought. I'm particularly attracted to companies and founders

0:35:22.920 --> 0:35:26.600
<v Speaker 15>that are largely technical, building AI enabled applications for engineering,

0:35:26.680 --> 0:35:29.040
<v Speaker 15>product and design teams, and they might not have a

0:35:29.080 --> 0:35:31.960
<v Speaker 15>product marketing or a sales background, and so I help

0:35:32.040 --> 0:35:35.719
<v Speaker 15>them define who's their ideal customer, how do you reach them?

0:35:35.840 --> 0:35:37.799
<v Speaker 15>How do you get your first sets of customers? And

0:35:37.800 --> 0:35:40.239
<v Speaker 15>that's such a critical set of activities to do with

0:35:40.280 --> 0:35:40.880
<v Speaker 15>the seed stage.

0:35:41.480 --> 0:35:44.040
<v Speaker 2>I know a lot of bench capitalists watch this program.

0:35:44.080 --> 0:35:46.440
<v Speaker 2>Many of you are not operators. You have a finance background,

0:35:46.480 --> 0:35:49.640
<v Speaker 2>nothing against any of that, but really interested in the

0:35:49.680 --> 0:35:51.160
<v Speaker 2>operator side of the story.

0:35:51.640 --> 0:35:53.759
<v Speaker 3>Where is it that the founders are struggling right now?

0:35:53.800 --> 0:35:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Like capital is basically commoditized, right, so what is it

0:35:56.719 --> 0:35:58.880
<v Speaker 2>that they say, like we really need your help with

0:35:59.560 --> 0:36:03.480
<v Speaker 2>imminent Is it hiring putting operational staff?

0:36:03.560 --> 0:36:04.480
<v Speaker 3>In absolutely?

0:36:04.520 --> 0:36:06.600
<v Speaker 15>I think it's two main things at the seed stage

0:36:06.600 --> 0:36:09.840
<v Speaker 15>that we focus on. One is really honing on getting

0:36:09.840 --> 0:36:12.799
<v Speaker 15>as specific as possible about who your ideal customer is.

0:36:12.880 --> 0:36:15.680
<v Speaker 15>And that's so critical for the seed stage because you

0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:19.400
<v Speaker 15>have the large horizontal players, the lms that are trying

0:36:19.440 --> 0:36:22.240
<v Speaker 15>to be the horizontal layer for everyone. Where seed stage

0:36:22.239 --> 0:36:25.359
<v Speaker 15>companies and early stage companies can really compete is by

0:36:25.360 --> 0:36:30.759
<v Speaker 15>focusing on a particular customer segment and owning their workflow.

0:36:30.400 --> 0:36:31.040
<v Speaker 3>End to end.

0:36:31.400 --> 0:36:33.279
<v Speaker 15>And so we spend a lot of time there and

0:36:33.320 --> 0:36:36.960
<v Speaker 15>then helping them identify the right talent that they need

0:36:37.080 --> 0:36:39.520
<v Speaker 15>to achieve those milestones and reach those.

0:36:39.360 --> 0:36:42.600
<v Speaker 2>Customers, Amy say pert partner un Court Capital, thank you

0:36:42.719 --> 0:36:52.760
<v Speaker 2>very much for joining us here. Former OpenAI board member

0:36:52.760 --> 0:36:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Helen Toner says Mark Zuckerberg and Meta's lavish spending for

0:36:56.800 --> 0:37:00.719
<v Speaker 2>top AI talent may not guarantee their success. On Bloomberg

0:37:00.800 --> 0:37:02.400
<v Speaker 2>Insight with has Linda I'm in.

0:37:03.160 --> 0:37:05.600
<v Speaker 16>What we're really seeing here with Meta is metas started

0:37:05.640 --> 0:37:07.600
<v Speaker 16>to get a reputation of having a little bit of

0:37:07.600 --> 0:37:12.200
<v Speaker 16>a dysfunctional AI team, not really having its organizational structures

0:37:12.200 --> 0:37:14.080
<v Speaker 16>set up in a way that Billy butts them succeed

0:37:14.160 --> 0:37:16.680
<v Speaker 16>and innovate. And what I think we're seeing here is

0:37:17.000 --> 0:37:19.160
<v Speaker 16>CEO Mark Zuckerberg really stepping in and saying, Wow, we

0:37:19.200 --> 0:37:21.120
<v Speaker 16>have to do something differently. We need a big new push,

0:37:21.120 --> 0:37:22.799
<v Speaker 16>we need a big new effort. The real question is

0:37:22.840 --> 0:37:25.200
<v Speaker 16>can it turn around Meta's fortunes and can it turn

0:37:25.239 --> 0:37:27.480
<v Speaker 16>Meta into a real juggernaut.

0:37:29.000 --> 0:37:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Staying on Meta, the company's Twitter alternative Threads has grown

0:37:33.000 --> 0:37:36.080
<v Speaker 2>to three hundred and fifty million monthly users since his

0:37:36.200 --> 0:37:39.200
<v Speaker 2>debut two years ago. Still, the social media platform is

0:37:39.239 --> 0:37:42.880
<v Speaker 2>continuing to work on finding their own identity among the industry.

0:37:43.080 --> 0:37:45.800
<v Speaker 2>So the subject to today's Tech in Depth newsletter written

0:37:46.000 --> 0:37:48.560
<v Speaker 2>by Bloombers Kirk Wagner. I said Twitter, I of course

0:37:48.640 --> 0:37:51.879
<v Speaker 2>meant X the platform formerly known as Twitter. I don't

0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:54.840
<v Speaker 2>know about Threads. Like when it launched, I used it

0:37:54.840 --> 0:37:58.120
<v Speaker 2>a lot because I like the interaction between Instagram and threads.

0:37:58.200 --> 0:38:00.560
<v Speaker 2>Like one thing I posted there I could take there.

0:38:00.880 --> 0:38:03.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't use it in the same way to share

0:38:03.440 --> 0:38:06.360
<v Speaker 2>news as I do potentially on x or even LinkedIn.

0:38:07.280 --> 0:38:09.680
<v Speaker 2>But it's it's your teching depth newsletter. What's the kind

0:38:09.680 --> 0:38:10.760
<v Speaker 2>of conclusion here.

0:38:11.640 --> 0:38:13.400
<v Speaker 12>Well, I think we're in the same boat, ed, because

0:38:13.400 --> 0:38:15.759
<v Speaker 12>that was sort of my thinking here as we come

0:38:15.840 --> 0:38:18.640
<v Speaker 12>up on the two year anniversary of this product. I

0:38:19.600 --> 0:38:22.400
<v Speaker 12>like threads, I use threads, but I still ask myself,

0:38:22.480 --> 0:38:23.839
<v Speaker 12>what is this thing for?

0:38:24.040 --> 0:38:24.200
<v Speaker 8>Right?

0:38:24.280 --> 0:38:28.160
<v Speaker 12>I think with Twitter, old Twitter, I knew what that was.

0:38:28.239 --> 0:38:29.920
<v Speaker 12>That was the place I went for breaking news. That

0:38:30.000 --> 0:38:32.319
<v Speaker 12>was a place I shared breaking news. That was where

0:38:32.360 --> 0:38:35.680
<v Speaker 12>I assumed that I would get, you know, things that

0:38:35.719 --> 0:38:38.880
<v Speaker 12>are happening right then, right now, right around me. And

0:38:38.920 --> 0:38:41.319
<v Speaker 12>I just don't really feel that from Threads. And part

0:38:41.360 --> 0:38:43.400
<v Speaker 12>of that is that I don't think they leaned into

0:38:43.560 --> 0:38:46.800
<v Speaker 12>politics during this last election cycle, and in my opinion,

0:38:46.920 --> 0:38:49.840
<v Speaker 12>sort of missed an opportunity to plant that flag on

0:38:50.200 --> 0:38:53.080
<v Speaker 12>the news side, and they made a few things changes

0:38:53.120 --> 0:38:54.960
<v Speaker 12>in the last few months that make me think maybe

0:38:55.000 --> 0:38:56.759
<v Speaker 12>they do care more about news and they want to

0:38:56.800 --> 0:38:58.960
<v Speaker 12>move in that direction. But again, two years in, my

0:38:59.239 --> 0:39:01.960
<v Speaker 12>one critique of platform is what do we use it for?

0:39:03.040 --> 0:39:03.320
<v Speaker 8>Well?

0:39:03.400 --> 0:39:07.200
<v Speaker 2>Also, how does meta position it and value it, you know,

0:39:07.360 --> 0:39:13.279
<v Speaker 2>as a platform visa the WhatsApp and Facebook and Instagram

0:39:13.280 --> 0:39:14.640
<v Speaker 2>commercially or otherwise.

0:39:16.000 --> 0:39:18.719
<v Speaker 12>Yeah, I mean I spoke to you know, the executive

0:39:18.760 --> 0:39:22.040
<v Speaker 12>who's running that team, Emily Dalton Smith, earlier this week

0:39:22.200 --> 0:39:24.160
<v Speaker 12>and she said, you know, it's a platform for exchanging

0:39:24.160 --> 0:39:27.000
<v Speaker 12>of ideas, right, It's clearly text. It's very much meant

0:39:27.040 --> 0:39:30.680
<v Speaker 12>to stoke some type of interaction between people in a

0:39:30.680 --> 0:39:33.040
<v Speaker 12>way that even Instagram I think is very much you know,

0:39:33.080 --> 0:39:36.239
<v Speaker 12>you sort of post something and people observe it. Right,

0:39:36.239 --> 0:39:39.680
<v Speaker 12>this is meant to be more back and forth. But again,

0:39:39.800 --> 0:39:41.520
<v Speaker 12>what are you talking about there?

0:39:41.600 --> 0:39:41.759
<v Speaker 8>Right?

0:39:41.880 --> 0:39:45.759
<v Speaker 12>Like people will find their communities, But what makes you

0:39:45.880 --> 0:39:48.560
<v Speaker 12>want to open that app every single day and make

0:39:48.600 --> 0:39:51.640
<v Speaker 12>that a destination for yourself? And that's where I feel like,

0:39:51.760 --> 0:39:54.560
<v Speaker 12>you know, I at least don't know exactly why I'm

0:39:54.600 --> 0:39:55.600
<v Speaker 12>opening threads.

0:39:55.280 --> 0:39:55.800
<v Speaker 3>All the time.

0:39:56.040 --> 0:39:58.640
<v Speaker 12>I hope that it will be because it becomes a

0:39:58.640 --> 0:40:00.839
<v Speaker 12>news source for me down the line. I just don't

0:40:00.840 --> 0:40:01.480
<v Speaker 12>think we're there.

0:40:01.400 --> 0:40:05.600
<v Speaker 2>Yet Bloombos Kurt Wagner, who is also the author of

0:40:05.760 --> 0:40:09.840
<v Speaker 2>Battle for the Bird, the book on Twitter Elon Musk's

0:40:09.840 --> 0:40:13.399
<v Speaker 2>acquisition of Twitter in its transition to X really really

0:40:13.480 --> 0:40:15.239
<v Speaker 2>highly recommend you go read that. That's why I kept

0:40:15.239 --> 0:40:17.640
<v Speaker 2>referring to Twitter. Let's get to another really important piece

0:40:17.640 --> 0:40:22.799
<v Speaker 2>of reporting. Immigration lawyers are advising clients to scrub their

0:40:22.840 --> 0:40:28.080
<v Speaker 2>social media accounts of controversy or politically sensitive topics, warning

0:40:28.120 --> 0:40:30.239
<v Speaker 2>the posts could be used to block their entry to

0:40:30.280 --> 0:40:31.560
<v Speaker 2>the US or.

0:40:31.560 --> 0:40:32.960
<v Speaker 3>As grounds to remove them.

0:40:33.520 --> 0:40:37.160
<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg Cecilia Deannastasio has been reporting this and it's a

0:40:37.160 --> 0:40:40.360
<v Speaker 2>particular segment that we're talking about. It's people who are

0:40:40.400 --> 0:40:44.279
<v Speaker 2>online influence, influencers to a certain extent. What have you

0:40:44.360 --> 0:40:45.600
<v Speaker 2>learned and what's the need to know?

0:40:47.120 --> 0:40:50.239
<v Speaker 17>Sure, so one in five Americans gets their news today

0:40:50.239 --> 0:40:53.839
<v Speaker 17>from influencers. Influencers have a lot of power over what

0:40:53.880 --> 0:40:57.080
<v Speaker 17>people think, especially politically these days, and what we heard

0:40:57.239 --> 0:41:02.120
<v Speaker 17>from immigration lawyers is that just bite influencers status as

0:41:02.160 --> 0:41:05.160
<v Speaker 17>citizens in the US, they are being advised not to

0:41:05.239 --> 0:41:08.280
<v Speaker 17>post on topics that the lawyers are considering hot button

0:41:08.360 --> 0:41:10.240
<v Speaker 17>for fear of potential repercussions.

0:41:11.640 --> 0:41:13.520
<v Speaker 3>So this is potentially severe.

0:41:15.840 --> 0:41:20.239
<v Speaker 2>It's part of a broader backdrop where migration in and

0:41:20.280 --> 0:41:22.160
<v Speaker 2>out of the United States is in focus. We talked

0:41:22.160 --> 0:41:25.160
<v Speaker 2>about it earlier in the Hour in the job sector.

0:41:25.800 --> 0:41:29.160
<v Speaker 2>Are there any sort of examples of where this is

0:41:29.160 --> 0:41:30.000
<v Speaker 2>already happening.

0:41:31.440 --> 0:41:35.840
<v Speaker 17>Sure, we have seen several examples of influencers in the US,

0:41:36.040 --> 0:41:38.839
<v Speaker 17>both people who have been born here, people who emigrated here,

0:41:39.000 --> 0:41:43.960
<v Speaker 17>people who might be undocumented facing repercussions.

0:41:43.000 --> 0:41:45.680
<v Speaker 15>For the way that their speech is viewed by.

0:41:45.640 --> 0:41:49.120
<v Speaker 17>People both close to government and inside of the government.

0:41:49.520 --> 0:41:51.400
<v Speaker 17>One of the examples that we use in our story

0:41:51.560 --> 0:41:54.920
<v Speaker 17>is far left leaning twitch streamer Hassan Piker, who's been

0:41:55.000 --> 0:41:59.560
<v Speaker 17>very outspoken on Palestine. He was detained in questioned when

0:41:59.600 --> 0:42:02.720
<v Speaker 17>he was bring back into the country to Chicago O'Hare,

0:42:03.360 --> 0:42:05.400
<v Speaker 17>and what he told us in an interview was that

0:42:05.400 --> 0:42:09.600
<v Speaker 17>he believes that this was a tactic for people to

0:42:09.640 --> 0:42:12.719
<v Speaker 17>become afraid of sharing their opinions on topics that might

0:42:12.719 --> 0:42:14.719
<v Speaker 17>not align with current governmental positions.

0:42:15.520 --> 0:42:18.080
<v Speaker 2>Cecilia just very quickly. Has there been any reaction to

0:42:18.160 --> 0:42:19.560
<v Speaker 2>our reporting from the government.

0:42:21.160 --> 0:42:24.480
<v Speaker 17>We haven't seen anything yet, but one of the concerns

0:42:24.480 --> 0:42:26.840
<v Speaker 17>that have heard from people who have read the story

0:42:27.360 --> 0:42:30.239
<v Speaker 17>is that today's influencers who speak on politics tend to

0:42:30.239 --> 0:42:34.120
<v Speaker 17>actually be more conservative than left leaning, according to a

0:42:34.120 --> 0:42:38.040
<v Speaker 17>recent pupil and considering some of the concerns around speaking

0:42:38.080 --> 0:42:41.440
<v Speaker 17>about certain topics in certain ways, there are worries that

0:42:41.440 --> 0:42:43.320
<v Speaker 17>that gap might actually widen overtime.

0:42:44.160 --> 0:42:47.319
<v Speaker 2>The HS Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs, Trishop Pacoffin also

0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:50.480
<v Speaker 2>emailing us saying that their officers are following the law,

0:42:50.719 --> 0:42:54.160
<v Speaker 2>not agendas. Really check out that reporting from the team Bloomberg.

0:42:54.239 --> 0:42:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Cecilia Deannastasia, thank you very much. That does it for

0:42:58.040 --> 0:43:00.520
<v Speaker 2>this edition of Bloomberg Tech. It's a show week in

0:43:00.560 --> 0:43:03.360
<v Speaker 2>the United States. There won't be any show this Friday

0:43:03.600 --> 0:43:06.080
<v Speaker 2>because of the July fourth holiday, but this was a

0:43:06.120 --> 0:43:07.560
<v Speaker 2>big show, so much to recap.

0:43:07.800 --> 0:43:09.400
<v Speaker 3>Check out the b Tech podcast.

0:43:09.440 --> 0:43:11.280
<v Speaker 2>You know where to find it on all the Bloomberg

0:43:11.320 --> 0:43:16.000
<v Speaker 2>platforms and online, iHeart, Spotify and on Apple.

0:43:16.560 --> 0:43:19.279
<v Speaker 3>From San Francisco, this is Bloomberg Tech.