1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: But let me be explicitly clear, it's not okay to 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: make people feel guilty for doing simple things to not 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: lose their bleep and to balance work with trying to 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: have some space for their brain cells to not wither 5 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: up and die. 6 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 2: Hey, Hey, Emily ABOUDI here coming to you from the 7 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 2: Age Studio. You are listening to Hurdle, a Wilens focused 8 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 2: podcast reconnect with everyone from your favorite athletes to top 9 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 2: experts and industry CEOs about their highest highs, toughest moments, 10 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 2: and everything in between. We all go through hurdles in life, 11 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 2: and my goal through these discussions is to empower you 12 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: to better navigate yours and move with intention so that 13 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 2: you can stride towards your own big potential and of 14 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 2: course have some fun along the way. Today I am 15 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: amped to be bringing you my conversation with Melissa Doman. 16 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 2: She's an organizational psychologist, a former clinical mental health therapist, 17 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 2: and mental health at work specialists, and that's exactly what 18 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 2: we're going to be chatting about, how to navigate well 19 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 2: being at work and more specifically a term that she 20 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: has coined called well being shaming, and we dive into 21 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 2: exactly what well being shaming is and how harmful that 22 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 2: behavior can be, plus the reasons why wellbeing shaming may 23 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 2: be happening in your workplace, from the mission to maintain 24 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 2: the company's status quo to maybe someone wanting to fit 25 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 2: in so that they mimic the behavior of others. Melissa 26 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 2: offers up a script that you can follow on how 27 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: to better explain your feelings when you are experiencing well 28 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 2: being shaming in your workplace. And we also get into 29 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 2: this really great discussion about the concept of work life 30 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 2: balance and how it is possible if you put the 31 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 2: right systems in place to safeguard your well being, including 32 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 2: overall mental and physical health. Really really loved this conversation. 33 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 2: I met Melissa down at the BBYO International Convention, so 34 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 2: a huge, huge thank you to the good people there 35 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 2: for connecting us. And speaking of traveling, I am really 36 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 2: looking forward to tonight in Washington, DC. Can't wait to 37 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 2: see all the hurdlers at Hotel. 38 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 3: Zena this evening at six pm. 39 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 2: Make sure you are following along with Hurdle over at 40 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 2: Hurdle Podcast and I am over at Emily Abadi. Last 41 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: a little bit of housekeeping if you're not yet subscribed, 42 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 2: to the weekly Hurdle newsletter. The link to do so 43 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: is in the show notes there in your inbox every Friday. 44 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 2: You can get a lot of the same inspiration and 45 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 2: motivation that you love from the show. And with that, 46 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: let's get to hurdling. 47 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 3: Today. I am sitting down with Melissa Doman. 48 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: She's an organizational psychologist, a former clinical mental health therapist. 49 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 2: It is Monday morning for me, author and mental health 50 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 2: at work specialists. 51 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 3: How you doing, Melissa? 52 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: I am fabulous. How are you? 53 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 3: Oh, she's fabulous because she just got a house. 54 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: Yes, first time home owner, who's ready to be house poor? 55 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. 56 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 2: You know what someone told me that before I was 57 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 2: going to move into this apartment. They were like, how 58 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 2: are you going to feel about being house poor? Honestly, 59 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 2: everyone's different. Best decision I ever made, Like, feeling so 60 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 2: good in my space is absolutely priceless for me. 61 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. I couldn't agree more that home has 62 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: very much become a Oh how do I say this? 63 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: Like a sanctuary? Because I work so hard, I'm constantly 64 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: traveling to speak and stuff like that. When I come home, 65 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: I want it to feel cozy and like something that 66 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: my husband and I really constructed to help us fill 67 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: our cups back up. 68 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: You want to have the glass half full mentality all 69 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 2: the time. 70 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: Well, i'd say as full as full as reasonable, And 71 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: you know on the days where it is kind of crap, 72 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: that it still feels nice and cozy, for sure. 73 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,679 Speaker 2: I'm nice and cozy. Well, yeah, I'm so excited for you. 74 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 2: Congrats again on this fun new chapter. I love when 75 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 2: something like really exciting happens right before someone gets on 76 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 2: the show, because then they're like energized, jazzed up, ready 77 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 2: to talk today. 78 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 3: We are ready to talk about well being. 79 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: Shaming, Yes, one of my favorites. I remember when I 80 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: was writing about it in the book, and when I 81 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: used to talk about it in you know events and 82 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: the beforetime before the world shut down and starting to 83 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: again now and you see all these looks on people's 84 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: faces like, oh, that's what it's called, and it is 85 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: something that I talk about with as my grandfather would say, 86 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: vim and. 87 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 2: Vigor first and foremost, Why don't you give us a 88 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 2: little bit of insight into how you became someone who 89 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: considers themselves a mental health at work specialist. Give us 90 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 2: some insight into your journey to this point in your career. 91 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: It was very much a pick your own adventure path. 92 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: And I remember when I was doing clinical work and 93 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: I was so appreciative to get that counseling degree and 94 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: to learn about the human condition and what people tend 95 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: to struggle with in private. And I really value that 96 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 1: time that I had because the things that people told me, 97 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: the ways that I was able to teach them how 98 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: to help themselves, that those are moments in time I 99 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: will never forget. What really frustrated me, though, is I 100 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 1: felt like I was treating people in the shadows and 101 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: a broken narrative, and so it felt like it was, 102 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: you know, treating one person at a time, small group 103 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: at a time, but nothing was changing, and it didn't 104 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: feel like it was enough. And a lot of those 105 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: people said, there's no way, shape or form I could 106 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: ever talk about this at work, and that really didn't 107 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: sit well with me. So I thought, let me make 108 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: an impact of the source. Let me switch to org 109 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: psyche and see if I can if I can tinker 110 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: with it a bit there, and so I switched into 111 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: org psych doing you know, team dynamics, communication, emotional intelligence, 112 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 1: all those great words, and I still do that work 113 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: now because most people are walking around not having those 114 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: skills developed, and then they take it out on others. 115 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: But you still couldn't say the words mental health or 116 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: mental illness in the workplace, and I was like, are 117 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: we really doing this? Why? Why? And then I remember 118 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: that when we had moved to London, that a contract 119 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: I was on and said, oh, you're clinically trained, can 120 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: you do a mental health awareness campaign for us? And 121 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: it was like, really, yes, I would love to. And 122 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: that was for you years ago, and I haven't looked 123 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: back since. It has been a complete rocket ship for 124 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 1: two core reasons. People want explicit permission to talk about 125 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:10,559 Speaker 1: it and they want to know how to not screw 126 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: it up, and I'm happy to provide services for both. 127 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people hear 128 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: what you're saying about the words mental health and work 129 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 2: being in the same sentence and not being able to 130 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 2: talk about that stuff in their own work environments. Definitely, certainly, 131 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: certainly relatable. The silver lining, perhaps about the pandemic would 132 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: be that innate level of vulnerability that came hand in 133 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 2: hand with signing on from home right bringing that discussion 134 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 2: to the forefront, saying things like I'm not okay today, 135 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 2: knowing that we all had, you know, this shared communal experience, 136 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 2: which was the pandemic. 137 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: You know what's so interesting is even in the beforetime 138 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: things were not okay, they were going on a path 139 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: that maybe people feel more emotionally and physically unwell than 140 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: ever before. You know, this with your work, and the 141 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: pandemic literally forced us to stop and have a come 142 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: to Jesus sort of of conversation with ourselves and basically went, 143 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: this is why we can't have nice things, and we 144 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: had to shift it all. And so when you're literally 145 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: peering into people's homes, it changed the conversation entirely. And 146 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: what's really interesting is that I've always found that each company, 147 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: each industry, each person is on their own journey of 148 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: willingness and readiness and motivation to talk about this. This 149 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: topic has always been important, but the pandemic has put 150 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: it so front and center in the world of work 151 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: that any organizations in the coming years who're not talking 152 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: about it will be the odd ones out. And so 153 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: we're still very much in the infancy of these sort 154 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,319 Speaker 1: of discussions. If you think about, you know, the timeline 155 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: of human history where it's only started in recent years, 156 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: so we're still getting used to the training wheels, is 157 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: what I would say. And people are still trying to 158 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: figure out what good looks like and that's something that 159 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: I'm trying to help them do. But just because we're 160 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: not physically together and we're doing this in a remote 161 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: environment or potentially people go back into the office. Sometimes 162 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: this is very iterative. It's going to have to be 163 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: continually updated because it's on the table, it's never going away. 164 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 1: And anybody that tries to regress backwards is going to 165 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: see their staff vote with their feet. 166 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 2: Vote with their feet, ah, leaving, leaving the workplace. Well 167 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 2: why don't we before we keep going, give a little 168 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,959 Speaker 2: bit of insight as to how you define well being 169 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 2: shaming especially at work. 170 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: Oh, this is one of my favorites. So, uh, my dear, 171 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: I'm going to use you as an example, if you 172 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: don't mind from back at all. In your corporate days, 173 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: did you ever work at places where you heard people 174 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: say something like, oh, it must be nice to sign 175 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 1: off at four pm every day. Oh, it must be 176 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: nice to you know, be able to take a run 177 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: at lunchtime. You know, I wish I had, I wish 178 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: I had that time in my schedule like you do. 179 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: Or oh must be nice that you know a company 180 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: lets you leave to to pick up your kids. I 181 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: wish we could all be so lucky. Have you heard 182 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: some ridiculous version of something like that? 183 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 2: Definitely, especially working at my first company, a mom Centrinc. Company, 184 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 2: where if you had a kid, there was a lot 185 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 2: of flexibility for you, but for someone who may be 186 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 2: younger without children. I didn't say those comments, but sometimes 187 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 2: I was like, where's the flexibility for the rest of us? 188 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: These examples are examples of well being shaming. And so 189 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: what I mean by that is that when people are 190 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: taking small actions to have a modicum of work life integration, 191 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: because you work life balance, in my opinion, is a 192 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: concept with bad branding, because when are we ever able 193 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: to totally balance those things? But I digress. So basically, 194 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: people take little jabs at you for trying to do small, 195 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: reasonable things to manage and prioritize your mental health with work. 196 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: So because that doesn't make people feel very good for 197 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: a whole variety of reasons. It could be that it 198 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: triggers them. It could be that they're trying to hold 199 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: up the status quo at the company. It could be 200 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: a whole host of reasons of why they say things 201 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: like that, But let me be explicitly clear, it's not 202 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: okay to make people feel guilty for doing simple things 203 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: to not lose their bleep and to balance work with 204 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: trying to have some space for their brain cells to 205 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: not wither up and die. So lots of companies have 206 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: problems with well being shaming, whether it comes from a leader, 207 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: whether it comes from a colleague, and they tend to 208 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: have a passive aggressive flair to it. And the thing 209 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: that I tell people to say is doing things to 210 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: balance and manage my mental health is a healthy adult practice. 211 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: Can you help me understand why you don't agree. It's 212 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: not rude, it's not flippant. You're asking a question. You're 213 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 1: making a statement of value and boundary. What are they 214 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: going to say? So I always tell people please do 215 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: that report back because I want to know how far 216 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: that person's jaw went to the floor. 217 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 2: I you know, I think about saying something like that 218 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 2: and putting that into practice, and I would imagine that 219 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 2: perhaps some of the feedback that you've received maybe counterintuitive 220 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 2: to what we'd hope to hear, right, because yes, there 221 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:53,239 Speaker 2: is certainly in some situations going to be even more pushed. 222 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: Back one thousand percent. And I'm sure that you'll agree 223 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: that when you put boundaries down, not everybody likes that. 224 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: Not everybody thinks that feels good, and people start to 225 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: have a bit of a pissing contest, and they go, 226 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: oh yeah, and they lean in even harder. So I 227 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: always tell people, whenever I give any sort of guidance 228 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: like this, be prepared for the fact that someone may 229 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: not like what you're saying, because you're trying to break 230 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: a pattern. People don't like when you break patterns, patterns 231 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:23,839 Speaker 1: are comfortable. 232 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 2: Or like unintentionally question authority right, because that's what some 233 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 2: people will feel as though you are doing by speaking 234 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 2: up to your right for mental health. 235 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: One thousand percent. And so there are cases, and they 236 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: wrote about this in the book that you got to 237 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: read the room. And if the room seems as though 238 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: it will just burst into the heat of a thousand 239 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,839 Speaker 1: suns by you saying something like that, is that the 240 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: right place for you to work? Or if someone has 241 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: a reaction, there's always a reason for that reaction. Always. 242 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean say something that in front of your 243 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: tire team and blow that person spot up. That's not 244 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: going to go very well. Maybe if you're dealing with 245 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: it one on one and you're explaining the context around 246 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: your decisions and that you would like that person to 247 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: support you, it can turn into a really amazing conversation 248 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: with a lot of key learnings. Maybe that person didn't 249 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: even know they were doing that to you. They may 250 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: not know. It could have been such an automatic reaction 251 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: and I take a step back to like, oh, that 252 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: is not a good look, or someone may not like 253 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: it at all, and basically go you want to go 254 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: toe to toe, I'll show you what it's like to 255 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: go toe to toe. But then we remember people have 256 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: a tendency to quit managers, not companies. 257 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 3: So when you say that, what does that mean? 258 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: What that means is if you have the luxury of 259 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: looking for a new job, because not everybody has that 260 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: luxury where you might have all these reasons that you 261 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: have to stay at an organization, even some of which 262 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: you don't like. But if you have the luxury of 263 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: looking for a new job and you can't even feel 264 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: like you can say something like this in an organization, 265 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: or that your manager will come for you you need 266 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: to have a very honest conversation with yourself of does 267 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: this company actually care about my sanity? Do they care 268 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: about my mental health? Why do I feel afraid to 269 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: say something like this or do these very reasonable things 270 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: that many companies are doing. I just got quoted in 271 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: a CNBC article today about how LinkedIn is doing the 272 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: lift up initiative all around these sorts of things to 273 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: prioritize employee happiness. And if you're at an organization that's 274 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: like ads, buns and a bunch of nonsense, you really 275 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: want to keep putting in fifty hours a week there, 276 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: you really think it's going to change. 277 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 2: Taking a break from today's episode to give some love 278 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 2: to my sponsors. First up, Green Chefs. Green Chef is 279 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 2: a CCOF certified meal care company that makes eating well 280 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 2: easy with plants to fit every lifestyle. 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Again that is inside tracker dot com. 329 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 3: Slash hurdle. 330 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 2: It's super interesting as well because of this point, right, 331 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 2: because of the fact that not everybody has the luxury to, 332 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 2: you know, continuously hop from point A to point B. 333 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 2: But I do think that it's a really valuable question 334 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 2: to ask and something to consider, even if you may 335 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 2: not be able to make this hop right now, thinking 336 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 2: going forward about what you want to prioritize within a 337 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 2: company culture as you seek for your next opportunity. Again, 338 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 2: not saying that right now you're feeling like you are 339 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 2: experiencing well being shaming at your office place, so tomorrow 340 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 2: you're going to walk in and be like, f this, 341 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 2: I'm out. No, I'm not saying do that, but you 342 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 2: can take these experiences to inform how you operate going forward. 343 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: Exactly. You took the words right out of my mouth 344 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 1: that I would never encourage anyone to be reactive. That 345 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: is literally the antithesis of what I'm going for. When 346 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: you have these experiences, the first thing you have to 347 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: do is have a little sit down with yourself and say, 348 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: why am I feeling like this? What's happening in my 349 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: surrounding environment, whether that's in an office or virtually how 350 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: much of this is my stuff? How much of it 351 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 1: is not my stuff? Do I think that this is 352 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: something I can change with my manager? Do I think 353 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: this is a cultural change? It's possible in the company? 354 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: Is there buy in from the right people to do so? 355 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,479 Speaker 1: You have to have these moments with yourself where you 356 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: reflect and you ask these questions before you do something impulsive. 357 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: I never recommend doing something impulsive, but these interactions or 358 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 1: moments where you can learn is this the right place 359 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: for me? And then you want to make a data 360 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: informed decision whether or not it. 361 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 3: Is two other things to touch on. 362 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 2: The first thing to touch on beyond perhaps like the 363 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 2: it must be nice kinds of I have heard from 364 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 2: many of my listeners that they deal with coworkers or 365 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 2: people in their office environment who you know, feel some 366 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 2: kind of way that they may just be active in general. 367 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 2: So let's talk about someone who like always comes into 368 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 2: the office after a workout, or someone who is leaving 369 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 2: the office to go to a workout, or someone who's 370 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 2: lead like you know, there's so many different situations, but 371 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 2: this person experiences what seems to be like their coworkers 372 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 2: kind of giving them crab Yes, being an active person. Again, 373 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 2: you and I know that this is obviously them probably 374 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 2: projecting a little bit about the fact that maybe they 375 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 2: are not as active, But how would you even recommend 376 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 2: someone to navigate that kind of discomfort when it comes 377 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,719 Speaker 2: to their relationships with their coworkers. 378 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 1: There's so many reasons that people say stuff like that, 379 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: and this episode is not long enough to cover all 380 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: of that. Very true, but when it's really interesting because 381 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: when people develop a consistent discipline or practice in relation 382 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: to their well being, whether that's emotional or physical, it 383 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: either inspires people or it pisses them off because there's 384 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: so many feelings behind that, in terms of being triggered 385 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: or feeling jealousy, or feeling intimidated, or feeling insecure. There's 386 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: lots of different synonyms about why people feel that way. 387 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: So if you are one of those people who is 388 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: so disciplined that they're able to, you know, come to 389 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: the office after a run or to a Zoom meeting 390 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: before or after a run, and people say something ridiculous 391 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: around like oh, you're always doing that, or you know, 392 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: how are the rest of us supposed to keep up, 393 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: or something that is clearly not benevolently intended, you have 394 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: to expect the context, what's the intention? Why do you 395 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 1: give a bleep? Why are you doing it? It doesn't 396 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 1: mean share your life story, but if people are saying 397 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 1: it enough, it's I do this consistently because it makes 398 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: me feel good. And I can't control much of what's 399 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 1: going on out there. What I can control is trying 400 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: to take care of my body and my mind. So 401 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: I make sure I do this every day because I 402 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,199 Speaker 1: there's not much I can control in this world, but 403 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 1: I can control that and it makes me feel good. 404 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: It's really that simple. You're not being defensive. You're not 405 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: attacking someone for saying what they're saying. You're just informing 406 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 1: them about your why. Be very connected to your why 407 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 1: because you can explain things to people without feeling or 408 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: coming off as defensive, just informative. That's what I always 409 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: recommend because anyone who usually gets defensive is not exactly 410 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: a recipe for a great conversation. 411 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 2: And I think bringing it kind of full circle into 412 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 2: the workplace by saying it also helps me show up here. 413 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 2: That is something when it comes to our mental health 414 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 2: and taking care of our overall well being that is 415 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 2: such a critical piece to the puzzle. It's not just 416 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 2: about the importance of making time for that activity, but 417 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 2: then extending that benefit from the activity from the time 418 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,679 Speaker 2: that you are enduring it, that you are sweating, that 419 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 2: you are going through it, or from the time that 420 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 2: you are speaking with your therapist or your life coach. 421 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 2: Reaping those benefits and the other aspects of your life 422 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 2: is monumental. 423 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: Extremely and I can't remember what I was reading. It 424 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: was in recent months where the very non scientific, simplified 425 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: version of what this article said is basically that having 426 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: some form of physical movement keeps your brain juices flowing. 427 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: That's basically the simple version is that by keeping yourself 428 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: moving that you're literally removing the gunk of the machine 429 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: that is your brain, keeps the juices flowing. And so, 430 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: for example, my main thing that is a little difficult 431 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: to do with the pandemic because it's not as safe unfortunately, 432 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: is salsa dancing. Salsa dancing is my jam, a little 433 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 1: tough to do in a pandemic, but the thing is 434 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: it has the same benefits to me as having meditated 435 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: for two hours. It's incredible and to be able to 436 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: prioritize that and now I have to do it differently. 437 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 1: I have hardwood floor as a mostly willing husband and 438 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: salsa music. So we kind of make it weak, but 439 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: it really it just keeps things moving. Moving is life, 440 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: Moving is thinking, Moving is innovation, Moving is being human. 441 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: And so I think developing that practice is so deeply personal. 442 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 2: And then the other thing that I want to double 443 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 2: click on would be you're Perhaps the best practice is 444 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 2: for someone to set these smart boundaries around some of 445 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 2: their health and well being practices that they want to 446 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 2: make a priority in addition to their work. So I, 447 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 2: over the pandemic have talked to so many individuals who 448 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 2: will say something like, I've blocked off from one to 449 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 2: two thirty PM on my calendar as focus time. Thank 450 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 2: you Apple for that new term that we'll always thinks 451 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 2: so regularly, but something like that, Would you recommend calendar blocks? 452 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 2: Would you recommend again, maybe appropriate communication? Where does someone 453 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,439 Speaker 2: begin with wanting to make these boundaries when it comes 454 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 2: to their well being and work? 455 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: The good news is I have a specifically created concept 456 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: for such a thing. 457 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 3: Ahh. 458 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 1: So the reason I love talking about this is not 459 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: because I created it, but because people tell me it works. Truly. 460 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 1: It's called the mental wellbeing non negotiables So what that 461 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: is is you coming up with certain things that you 462 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: do no matter what, barring death, dismemberment, hell, high water, 463 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 1: or illness, and I am not joking, that help you 464 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: manage and prioritize your mental health. So the good news 465 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: is you get to choose what that is and what 466 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: feels right for you. And you want to think about 467 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: the paradox of choice. Don't say I'm going to do 468 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: these ten things, because then you're not going to do 469 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,199 Speaker 1: any of them. You'll just freeze with paralysis by analysis. 470 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: Start small, three to five or less. And so if 471 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: that means making sure that you block off that time 472 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: chunk so you can actually go for a walk or 473 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 1: dare I say, small flowers or go look at trees 474 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 1: or whatever that is, that's what that means for you. 475 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: If that means going for a run ten minutes a day, 476 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: that's what that means for you. If it means dancing 477 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: to abba in your underwear in the living room with 478 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: your kids, that's what that means to you. Whatever that means, 479 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: stick to it no matter what. And you can't say 480 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 1: I don't have the time. You have to make the time. 481 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: You must make the time. If President Obama can find 482 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: time to go for a run every day, what is 483 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: your excuse? Seriously, you got to find the minuits minutes 484 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: where you can, and no one is going to take 485 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: charge of that for you except for you. So come 486 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: up with your mental wellbeing non negotiables, Start small and 487 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: stick to them, except in the cases that I mentioned. 488 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: Because a little, it's a really great Tanzanian proverb. Little 489 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: by little, a little becomes a lot. 490 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 2: And I think that here something that's really valuable is 491 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 2: this idea of prioritization and the concept of believing that 492 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 2: you are worthy of this time. Right. So often we 493 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 2: are so good at making sacrifices when others are directly involved. 494 00:28:59,160 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 3: In the equation. 495 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 2: But when you take a step back and you ask 496 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 2: yourself if by doing this, will I actually be better 497 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 2: for others in the process, one hundred percent of the time, 498 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 2: the answer to that question is yes. So recognizing that yes, 499 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 2: I am worthy of my own energy, I am worthy 500 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 2: of my own investment, let's see what happens from here. 501 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 2: Once I make a conscious effort to give myself this 502 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 2: time to make me better and to then better show up. 503 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: I completely agree. I remember distinctly it was one of 504 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: the last talks I did in London before you know, 505 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: the World show Down, and when we moved back to 506 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: the States. It was a group of probably about two 507 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: hundred people, and this wonderful woman stood up and asked 508 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: a question, and she said, all of this sounds so great, 509 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: but I honestly feel really selfish by doing any of it, 510 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: because I have a son who we went through six 511 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: rounds of failed IVF to get and I feel like 512 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: I'm being very selfish and not being there for him 513 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: if I'm taking this time. And started crying and I said, 514 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: I appreciate your honesty, and I have a sneaking suspicion 515 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,479 Speaker 1: that your son would want you to do things to 516 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: make you feel good so you can show up for 517 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: him as his mom. And you got to take this 518 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: time because parenting is a marathon. It's going to be 519 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: a long time. And I know from how you speak 520 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: about it that you love him and he loves you. 521 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: And I am confident that, let's say, when he grows up, 522 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: he's twenty five years old, he's going to look back 523 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: and be appreciative that you took the time for yourself 524 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: so you could be a better mom to him, not 525 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: the other way around, and the look of relief in 526 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: her face and as her shoulders dropped, I said, Okay, 527 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: I got one. I got one, and I don't care 528 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: if anybody else doesn't believe me in this audience. I 529 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: got one. 530 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I trust me. 531 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 2: I've been there to anyone listening to this, like I 532 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 2: have certainly been in moments in my life where I 533 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 2: can relate with that woman where that self care does 534 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 2: feel really selfish. But in exercising this muscle, because it 535 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 2: is like a muscle, right, the more that you take 536 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 2: the time to figure out what it is that you 537 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 2: need and actually take care of your physical, your mental, 538 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 2: your emotional, your financial, your sexual, all of your health. 539 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 2: The more that you work on these muscles, the more 540 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 2: comfortable and strong that you become in that process. 541 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: That's completely true, and oftentimes we're not exactly taught to 542 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: do that in our formative years, and you can't expect 543 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: it from your primary caregivers if they didn't learn it either. 544 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: It's a bit of the blind leading the blond. So 545 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: you have to learn these practices as you get older, 546 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: because if you don't, and all of these things are 547 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: kind of deprioritized, you'll just go pop towards people you 548 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: don't want to at moments when you don't want to do. 549 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 2: It before I let you go to Is there anything 550 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 2: else that we should touch on when it comes to 551 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 2: just exercising your overall well being in the workplace, making 552 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 2: sure that you're taking care of you, any tips or 553 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 2: tricks that we haven't touched on just yet. 554 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: Honestly, it's really the main question I want people to 555 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: ask themselves is there is no going back to how 556 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: things work, there's only going forward. We're still figuring out 557 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: what the sext chapter is going to look like, and 558 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: I would highly encourage you to ask yourself, can I 559 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: afford to not prioritize this? Can I afford to work 560 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: at a company that doesn't prioritize this? And based on 561 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: those answers, you'll decide what to do next. 562 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 2: I love that a little bit of personal inventory, personal 563 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 2: inquiry to figure out what it is that's going on 564 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 2: and what you want to happen going forward. Melissa, this 565 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 2: is so great. I'm so glad that we were able 566 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 2: to connect for the show. How to the herd keep 567 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 2: up with you? How do they follow along with you? 568 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 2: Give us all of your information? 569 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, for having me. So if you'd 570 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 1: like to connect, if you would like a sweet swift 571 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: kick in the ass at your company about why and 572 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: how to talk about mental health at work, you can 573 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: reach me at Melissadoman dot com. You can add me 574 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: on LinkedIn. My Instagram handle is at the Wandering mel 575 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: and on Twitter, I'm at Melissa Doman, LLC. Don't be shy, 576 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: get in touch and I would be very happy to help. 577 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: And if you would like the simple to understand and 578 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: easy to use, how to guide and how to have 579 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: these conversations that work and do them really well. My 580 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: book is called Yes you can talk about Mental health 581 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: at work. Here's why and how to do it really well. 582 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 3: We love it. 583 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 2: I'm over at Emily a Body and at Hurdle Podcast 584 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 2: Another Hurdle Conquered. 585 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 3: Catch you guys next time.