1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,119 Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda land Audio 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. So I have him 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: sitting in the cart, and I realized I forgot something, 4 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: but of course my cart had a million things in it. 5 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: Maddie's sitting in it. So I run two aisles down 6 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: and I come back, and I guess her mom brain discussion. 7 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: I forgot what aisle Maddie was in. And this woman 8 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: looks at me with the most withering stare and just 9 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: points cart is Hello, everybody, Welcome back to Katie's Crib. Today, 10 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: we are talking about two words that I use all 11 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,959 Speaker 1: the time, mom brain. I use it as an excuse, 12 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: I use it as a definition, I use it as 13 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 1: a adjective, mom braining as a verb. And here to 14 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: talk about it is Dr Alice Doe Brow DeMarco. She's 15 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: a clinical psychologist. She has her own private practice in Summit, 16 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: New Jersey, z. She specializes in helping women use cognitive 17 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: behavioral therapy and related evidence based strategies to navigate the 18 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: challenges of motherhood. She has written in so many things 19 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: like Motherly Motherwell, Pop Sugar Mom, Psychology Today, Scary Bommy, 20 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: The Week, Today Parenting and her own blog www dot 21 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: dr cbt mom dot com. Dr DeMarco is the author 22 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: of the book we talked so much about today called 23 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: mom Brain. It's a guy that includes science based strategies 24 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: to help mom's cope with common challenges and make peace 25 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: with their transformed identity. She lives in New Jersey with 26 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: her husband and her two sons, Mattie and Sam. Thank 27 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: you so much for coming on Katie's Crib. Dr DeMarco. 28 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 1: It's so nice to talk to. Oh my god, you're 29 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 1: so excellent. The book is so wonderful. I'm so appreciative 30 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: of you coming on. Is mob Brain a real thing? Yes? 31 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: Yea rah end of episode. That's all that's all we needed. 32 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: That's all we needed. Um, Yes it is, but like 33 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: not in the way pop culture teaches us. It is 34 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: as a mom too. I always had heard there's this 35 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: thing called mom Braine, where like you have kids and 36 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: then you like forget where your shoes are and lose 37 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: your cell phone. And I think in pop culture it's 38 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: a negative thing, right, It's like you you have kids 39 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: and you like lose your mind. M But what's really 40 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: interesting is there's a lot of emerging science on mombrane. 41 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: There's emerging research now on what happens in your brain 42 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: when you become a mom, and what it shows is 43 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 1: mom braine is actually far from a detriment. It's actually adaptive. 44 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: There are structural and functional changes that happen in our 45 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: brain that basically push our kids to top of mind, 46 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: which is great from a caregiving perspective, and that yes, 47 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: you want your kids top of mind right all the time. 48 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: But what it does is it makes everything go. It 49 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: pushes down the list right exactly, so like remembering people's birthdays, 50 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: maybe where your cell phone is. But it's actually a 51 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: good thing, and there's the research on on it that's 52 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: coming out is fascinating. It's not just moms who have 53 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: come by their kids other ways other than giving birth 54 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: dads they have brain changes as well. It's really fascinating stuff. 55 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: Let's not tell my husband that so that he can't 56 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: use it as an excuse, but you're right, we do 57 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: culturally use mom brain as this sort of up some 58 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: of failure. I can't remember where I was in the 59 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: middle of my sentence, But what you're saying, and what 60 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 1: we learned in your book is that really things are 61 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: actually scientifically happening in your brain that make your child 62 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: come first. Everything else just gets pushed down. Plus, tell 63 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: me about lack of sleep. I mean that has got 64 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: to be part of the mom brains. Yeah, of course, 65 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that are contributing, right, So 66 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: it's not only brain changes, but yes, it's also lack 67 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: of sleep, which is profound in the beginning. As you know, 68 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: remember to you that, like when you become a mom, 69 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: you're so unmoored, particularly in the beginning, Like I remember 70 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: when I had like my first son, and it was 71 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: how old are they now? Excuse me interrupting, how old 72 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: you're seven and ten? Now? Daddie's boys, Um, they are 73 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: loads of fun. When I had Maddie, my older one, 74 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: I remember feeling like, forget about what day it is. 75 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: I don't feel like I'm in my life anymore. I 76 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: feel like I've stepped out of the functioning world and 77 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: I'm now in this weird quasi reality where like I'm 78 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: up in the middle of the night and I'm sleeping 79 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: in them of the day. You're so lost. You're so lost, 80 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: you guys. Mombrane is a wonderful book, and it's structured 81 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: so well for us moms who have mombrane. Because it 82 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: is structured in sections, you don't have to read the 83 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: whole book in one sitting. You have the ability to 84 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: really pick and choose which chapters are affecting you at 85 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: certain times. Thank you for pointing out, Katie, the way 86 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: the book is structured. I did that very deliberately because 87 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: I was like, moms can't read. It's not like they 88 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: have a million no, but they can dip in and 89 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: out to different sections and get one or two skills 90 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: that they can start using right now to help themselves. 91 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: And that's why I wrote it, because I was like, yes, 92 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: I think every mom needs TV TE, but no, I 93 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: don't think every mom is going to get it. And 94 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: so this is my way of you know, I had 95 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: started off writing shorter pieces for like those publications you 96 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: mentioned right, and then I was like, there's a lot 97 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: that CBDs. You wrote in the Washington Post about this 98 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: feeling of loss, that loss and lost that I feel currently. 99 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: You said there's so much grief involved. Motherhood is joyful, yes, 100 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: but it also entails so much grieving. When we first 101 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: become mothers, we grieve for the loss of our child, free, 102 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: independent person. We once were when we send our kids 103 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: out into the world, whether for their first day of 104 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: kindergarten or their first day of college. Holy sh it, 105 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: well that's what I feel right now. I'm missing my 106 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: my twenties. I didn't have the worries that I have now. 107 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: I'm already seeing the grief of I'm spending all this 108 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: time and energy and care and love just to get 109 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: my heartbroken because if I do a good job, they 110 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: will leave me. Right It's like, why did I sign 111 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: up for this ship? No, You're totally right, and the 112 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: grief really changes what I'm going through right now. Yes, 113 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: year ahead of me. Talk to me, goose, I'm ahead 114 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: of you. I don't listen. This is my own personal experience. 115 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: I can't put my psychologist had on when it's about 116 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: my kids. Right. But with my older son, so he's 117 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: in fifth grade, and um, this year has been fine, 118 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: but last year with COVID was hard. Right, they were 119 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: only in school half day. It was very disruptive, I 120 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: mean for everybody, of course, and last year was the 121 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: first time where you know, it was difficult for him 122 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: and I was like, gosh, I can't solve his problems anymore. 123 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: When he was younger, you could fix it. You could 124 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: fix it, right, And so like, that's the stage of 125 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: grief I'm in. Now, his life is his own. You can't. Yeah, 126 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: and I get worse, like because my sister has teenagers, 127 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh my god, it's good to get 128 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: worse that article to post. But I meant what I 129 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: said about being grief being a staple of the maternal experience. 130 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: And one of the things that I thought about a 131 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: lot when I was writing Mombrain was like, you know, 132 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: moms to not feel bad when they have kids and 133 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 1: are in mourning for certain things. I mean, like you, Katie, 134 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: having baby during a pandemic. That's a whole other layer 135 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: of mourning. Not only are you like mourning your child 136 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: free self, your mourning the babyhood that you wanted your 137 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: kid to have. I've talked to so many patients about this, 138 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: where they're like, I couldn't introduce my baby to their grandparents. 139 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: I couldn't join the mommy and meat classes I wanted. 140 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: There's been so much mourning around that too. Oh yeah, 141 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: and the women listening to this podcast really grieving the 142 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: like I couldn't do that prenatal yoga class. I couldn't 143 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: do the mommy and me and I had one child 144 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: pre COVID, one child during COVID, so I do miss 145 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: the village that I had with my son. I signed 146 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: up for weekend play dates with wine. That's how I 147 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: wanted to parent, and I don't get to do that. 148 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: The play dates are few and far between, and so 149 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: I find myself alone and it's so talks not having 150 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: a good time so hard. It's so hard. From your book, 151 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: can you just give us a few examples of CBT strategies. 152 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you some very general ones that I 153 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: kind of stirred out with and then what you know, 154 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: we can get into specifics of some other stuff, but 155 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: here's some general ones. One thing that I recommend a 156 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: lot to basically everybody is doing mood checkens a couple 157 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: of times a day. This is a very CBT thing. 158 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: We're very into monitoring our moods. Were very into all 159 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: of that. I tell patients, you know, set a timer 160 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: to go off once every couple of hours or time 161 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: it with meals. That's an easy thing to remember, like breakfast, lunch, dinner, 162 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: where you're taking a moment and just asking yourself, how 163 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: am I doing. How am I feeling? This sounds simple, 164 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: It is not simple. No mom is doing that. Because 165 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: I just asked myself in my head that and I 166 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: was like, oh wow, I haven't asked myself that in 167 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: years totally. So for just that every reason, it's really 168 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 1: important that we prioritize ourselves as we're prioritizing our kids. 169 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:04,959 Speaker 1: But I think what happens with a lot of moms 170 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 1: is we are so in it, particularly in the beginning, 171 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: like right where you are now, Katy, when you have 172 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: really little ones, you're so in it all the time 173 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: that you were just not registering how you're feeling. And 174 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: what I was hearing about all the time before I 175 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: wrote the book and still do is Oh my god. 176 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: I got to the end of the night and I 177 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: melted down. I had this day of stressors with my 178 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: kids and was building and building and building, and I 179 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: got to the end of the night and I got 180 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: these kids in bed, and I lost my mind. What 181 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: I realized is that, like, you know, part of the 182 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: problem there is that you're not realizing earlier in the day, Ah, 183 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: I am not doing great. What can I do now 184 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: in this moment to help myself? So everything is building 185 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: and building, and then it explodes. For some months I 186 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: work with say that happens in the morning, where like 187 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: they'll go to bed so stressed out, and then they 188 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: wake up and there's like a clenching feeling in the 189 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: pit of their right when we've all been there, Like, right, 190 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: we've all been there, and so make sure you are 191 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: checking your emotional blood pressure so to speak, every couple 192 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: of hours. And if you notice you're having trouble, stop 193 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: and say what do I need? Do I need to 194 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,319 Speaker 1: call the neighbor. Do I need to take a walk? 195 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: Do I need to just throw my baby and stroll 196 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: and just take a walk? Because we both need a 197 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: change of scenery. That's a huge one, so helpful, that's 198 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,199 Speaker 1: all I say. I like, get outside. We're all going outside, family, walk, 199 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: We're going outside. I'm so with you. And by the way, 200 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: my patients hate me because they're like, but it's phrasing, 201 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: which it is here by the way in the Northeast. 202 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: But I'm like, you know what it is. Change of 203 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: scene is life changing for the mom meltdowns and the 204 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,199 Speaker 1: baby melt And by the way, I think this is 205 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: true of older kids to like we'll still do that 206 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: with my son, if one of them is really having 207 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: a hard time, I'll be like, dude, let's just we're 208 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 1: gonna get in the car. We're just gonna drive somewhere. 209 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: What I say to Mom's too, and that this is 210 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: another like feeling and being yeah, is I'm very big 211 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: into mindfulness, and I'm very into really trying to be 212 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: kind and compassionate towards yourself when you're having a hard time. 213 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: Mindfulness and self compassion is so critical because we have 214 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: a lot of emotions as parents that are not positive. Right. 215 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: We talked about the grief already, there's anxiety, there's frustration, 216 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: there's resentment of partner friends, there's pressure, there's overwhelmed. Yes, 217 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: there's envy. There's so much. One of the things I 218 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: thought about when I was writing the book is like, 219 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: I have so many moms who come to me and 220 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,959 Speaker 1: are so ashamed of the negative emotions they feel, which 221 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: is so unfair. It's bad enough you're feeling these bad feelings, right, 222 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: If on top of that, you're feeling guilty about feeling 223 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: this way, adding insult to injury, it's like making a 224 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: million times worse. Right, tell me what example of a 225 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: mindfulness exercise um in the book. So one of my 226 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: all time favorites is the lead on a stream exercise, 227 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: which is by by no means mine right. It's a 228 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: classic mindfulness exercise. You could use leaves on a stream, 229 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: you could use boxes on a conveyor belt, clouds in 230 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: the sky like whatever image floats your boat. But basically 231 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: the idea is you want to just take a moment 232 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: and see yourself writing the thoughts and feelings that come 233 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: in on a leaf and sending it sort of down 234 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: a mental stream and not pushing it down the stream. 235 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: Like I always caution moms about this, because you're not 236 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: trying to push your emotions away. In fact, the opposite 237 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: is true. What you're trying to do is just be 238 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: an observer and describer of your feelings without judging your feelings, 239 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: without feeling like you have to fix them right away 240 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: or change them. You're just letting them be. Any of 241 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: the mindfulness apps have exercises like this, like calm or headspace. 242 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: But it's what I always say is like you'll become 243 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 1: good enough at it that you can just sort of 244 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: leaves on a stream yourself. You don't need to fix 245 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: or change, but just give yourself like a minute to 246 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: to see those leaves on a stream and let them 247 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 1: do what they're gonna do. But once again, if you're 248 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 1: an observer and a describer of what's going on in 249 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: your head, you're not judging what's going on in your head, right, 250 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: So I think that a lot of this mom brings stuff, 251 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: and you talk about this in your book, to which 252 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: I love. I think a huge part of it in 253 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: our society now is mom guilt is part of mom brain, 254 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: and a lot of it is coming from social media. 255 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: I can speak for myself personally. I think we feel 256 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: a lot of judgment from ourselves from comparing ourselves to others. 257 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: Moms who seems like they've got it all going on, 258 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: they're packing better lunches. Someone will post something of their 259 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: kid and their kids talking and senses before my kid is. 260 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: And I love that you mentioned in your book that 261 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: if there's a particular friend or celebrity social media account 262 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: that's driving problematic comparison making for you, this incredible doctor 263 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: who we have here, it just says, unfollowed, that's it. 264 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 1: What am I doing? Why am I doing this to myself? Yeah? 265 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 1: I mean I I talked in the book about like, Okay, 266 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 1: consider the benefits and drawbacks of following a particular social 267 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: media account. If the benefits are like awesome vegan recipes 268 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: and the drawbacks are posts fill me with like soul 269 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: crushed in fomo, stop following that person, Like the vegan 270 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: recipes are not worth it. And also, just like Google 271 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: of vegan recipe, you don't have to also follow the 272 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: whole lifestyle of the vegan chef. And I will say 273 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 1: Katie that I, as a psychologist who works with months, 274 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: I'm so appreciative of celebrities like you who are open 275 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: about motherhood because that's what we need, not just with 276 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: people in the entertainment industry, but also these quote unquote 277 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: mom fluencers. Now there's a lot of oh my goodness, 278 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: look at me and my children frolicking on this sunlit beach. 279 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: You know, they're so well behaved, I'm so beautiful. I 280 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: talked to patients all the time. I'm like, why, yeah, 281 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: Like if I didn't know, I would feel so much 282 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: better about my parenting. I mean, I was going down 283 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: a spiral on this podcast because I follow a lot 284 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: of like very wonderful moms who are super and and 285 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: my son and COVID got eight thousand paw patrols just 286 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: plastic shit toys. They're not wooden blocks, they're not open 287 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: ended toys. These are toys with bells and whistles and 288 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: buttons and lights and their crap. And my son loves them. 289 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm already I'm failing. I'm a failure, 290 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: or like the mom who's like, well I slipped and 291 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: in COVID, I am now allowing my children to watch 292 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes of television to day. I'm like, fifteen minutes. 293 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: Holy shit, you should see on weekends. It's like, I'm 294 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: like eight to noon, buddy, boy, what shows you getting? Like? 295 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: Why do I follow these people? They make me feel 296 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: like shot about myself and they're wonderful. It's not about them, 297 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: they're great. It's that I have the issue where I'm 298 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: comparing myself and I'm having mom guilt about my parenting skills. 299 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: There's so much out there now from parenting experts on 300 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: social media, and I feel like it exploded during COVID, 301 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: particularly on Instagram, where there's so much content from a 302 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: lot of really good people. But I think what does 303 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: happen is, you know, especially if you're someone who's more 304 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: prone to anxiety. You end up following every one, like 305 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: all the experts, and then it's just noise coming at 306 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: you and dissenting opinions. Find the one or two good 307 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: sources that you feel comfortable with that don't make you anxious, 308 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: that you feel like you know our good guides. Follow 309 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: those things, don't follow anything else like it's too much, 310 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: it's too much to digest. Let's talk about judging people 311 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: during these mom brain moments you talked about. There's a 312 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: number of subtler in person judgments that are thrown at 313 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: moms each day. Can you describe the experience that you 314 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: had the one time in the grocery store with Maddie 315 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: and the woman who helped you find out, Oh my god, 316 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: this was terrible. So I was in the first few store, 317 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: I was very visibly pregnant with Sam and Maddie would 318 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: have been almost three. Sure, so I have him sitting 319 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: in the cart and I realized I forgot something, But 320 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: of course my cart had a million things in it. 321 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: Maddie's sitting in it, so I run two aisles down 322 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: to grab whatever it was. Sure, and I come back 323 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: and I guess her mom brain discussion. I forgot what 324 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: aile Maddie was in and I go into the aisle 325 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: right next to him. He's not there, and I visibly packic, 326 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: and this woman looks at me with the most withering 327 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: stare and just points where Maddie's card is. I was 328 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: so upset. I got in the car and I went 329 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: to the gas station and I called my sister and cried, 330 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: and I was like, I am a terrible mother. It 331 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: was awful. This is when I just started doing a 332 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: lot of this work, and I was awful. It was awful, 333 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: and you could see the judgment in her face. Yes, 334 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: there's some overt judging, but a lot of the judging 335 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: is more subtle, like by a look, right, or like 336 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: you know, I talked about the passive aggressive, like the 337 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: person who's like, yoh, you do that with your kid. 338 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 1: That's a faith. That's so I hated about that, right, 339 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: We've all gotten that. And then on social media, where 340 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: people are more overt because of course they're hiding behind 341 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: their avatar. Yeah. I will remember, I think till the 342 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: day I die, what that woman's stare was um and 343 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 1: how mortified I was, and how I was filled with 344 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,239 Speaker 1: guilt and shame. Uh was so unfair. Like again, I mean, 345 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: one of the nice things about writing this book now 346 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: is that in hindsight you can have a sense of 347 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: humor about yourself and you can see things that you 348 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: couldn't see at the time. And like I was writing 349 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: that anecdote, I felt so bad for myself. I wish 350 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: I could show myself the compassion then that Yeah that 351 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: you know now, I know he really is true. We 352 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: really are hard on ourselves. I I don't know why 353 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: we have these ridiculous expectations on ourselves on something that's 354 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: really hard and that we've never done before. You know, 355 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: like I've never been a mom before. I've been a 356 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: mom for four years, and I and my child changes 357 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: all the time. Here's what I thought was something else 358 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: that was really helpful. Mom brain is a big thing 359 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: on holidays and vacations, a schedule or some sort of routine, 360 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: it all gets thrown out the window for vacations and 361 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: holidays and any sort of special events. But what I 362 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: love about this, and I think this is really helpful 363 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: to reduce stress, is that moms should set the bar 364 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: low below. And I think that is genius. You even 365 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: put out some examples of low bar goals like just like, 366 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: get one good picture at the family wedding, that's huge, 367 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 1: even just looking at the camera, Like we don't even 368 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: need smiles, we just need everyone looking at the camera. 369 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: That's a miracle. This all came honestly from my own 370 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: experience where I had the most overblown expectations for Maddie, 371 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: my older ones first holidays, and I among the most 372 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: stressful times for me as apparent early on occurred in 373 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: the context of holidies when things did not work out 374 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: the way I had dreamed and hoped right, So this 375 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: happened again and again, like we had a blizzard in 376 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: the Northeast. His first Halloween Halloween was canceled. I mean, like, 377 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff happened. But my personal favorite of 378 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: once I learned to set the barlow is my nephew 379 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: had his bar Mitzvah when Sam was three and Maddie 380 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: was six, and Sam had just potty trained, like literally 381 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,719 Speaker 1: a week before they'll have an accident, and the bart 382 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: party was on a boat that went around the Hudson, 383 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: which was beautiful, beautiful, but like on a boat, my 384 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: kid was maybe gonna pee everywhere. Proop everywhere too, like 385 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: I didn't know, and I went into that, which was 386 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: funny because my nieces bought Mitzvah was three years prior, 387 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 1: and I was much more stressed about that, and I 388 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: think I wised up and for my nephews, I was like, 389 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: you know what, it's gonna be fine. I just have 390 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: to make sure that these kids get some food. I'm 391 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 1: not going to worry about their behavior. There's a million 392 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: people in their face, all of our relatives trying to 393 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: hunt them and kiss them. It's on a boat, They're 394 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: not napping. Nothing was going according to normal schedule. I 395 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: was like, you know what, I want to keep these 396 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: kids fed into life. My low bar when I fly 397 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: is I just say, like you said, it's just survive. 398 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: I think it's because they I don't feel the stress, 399 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: so like, oh my god, it's their naptime coming up, 400 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: and there are they going to skip it? Are they not? 401 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: Are they going to get cranky? I'm like, well, they'll 402 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: fall asleep if they if they need it. I guess 403 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna let it all go. You describe a 404 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: couple of ways to reduce the comparison of our kids 405 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,959 Speaker 1: to others, which is what we're talking about as far 406 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: as social media. The judge mom in the grocery store 407 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: for you that we so lovingly wish the best in hindsight, 408 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: um one, you say you consider how much we really 409 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: know about the family and to creating funny backstory. So 410 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: I thought this would be kind of fun if we 411 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: do a quick activity where you can walk me through 412 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 1: developing our own funny backstory. Sure by way of introduction 413 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: for this, a lot of times when we don't really 414 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: know much about a person, we're comparing ourselves too. It's 415 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: not fair. The example that I use in the book 416 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: is like Einstein mom, Einstein mom, right, who has a 417 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: kid who seems brilliant and super well behaved while your 418 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: kid is like eating paste and running around like a tornado. Right, 419 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 1: But you likely don't have any information about this woman, 420 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: like you probably don't even know her name or whatever. 421 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: So it can help you to create like a funny 422 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: backstory in your head. So in the book it was 423 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: like calling her Einstein Mom, right, And then like the 424 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 1: joke was, think about how she gets home and she 425 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: tells her kids. Every time you read a sentence, I'm 426 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: going to give you a grape. And this is how 427 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: I'm going to feed you like you can't have food? 428 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: A funny story, So yes, I'm on board. Give me, 429 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 1: give me an example. I'm thinking about this mom that 430 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: I don't really know, like I just like can't deal with, 431 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: like how good she is a being a mom. She 432 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: makes dinner every single night and instagrams the meals and 433 00:22:55,320 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: they're super they're superb. Okay, So here's my question, And Katie, 434 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: have you witnessed this family for like a long period time. 435 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 1: Maybe the story of this mom is like you see 436 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: her like outside and she's waving and her kids or whatever, 437 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: and like she walks in the house and the house 438 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: is as off and the kids are right right totally 439 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: and like it's like the hunger games in the house 440 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: and they're all like fighting to eat that beautiful instagram 441 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: meal and they're running around the house with like God, 442 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: let that be true. It has to be sometimes, right, 443 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: you know what it has to be. The truth is 444 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: there is no way that this woman has it all 445 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: together like that. There is no way. So that's my one. 446 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: Like funny scenarios, like thinking about the hunger games at 447 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: her house. You know whoever the last kid like er, yes, yes, 448 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: eat the beautiful Instagram dinner. Right then you can also 449 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 1: think about okay, well maybe like the door opens and 450 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: you realize, like they're all robots, Like they're all robots children, 451 00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: like they're not. Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. Oh that's 452 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: so good, that's so helpful, or your other advice I 453 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: should just unfollow. Yes, I hate cooking. I don't like it, 454 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: and that's not where I excel in motherhood. But I 455 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: excel in other ways. I'm a performer, and you bet 456 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: your ass there's a dance party like no one's in 457 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: my house. It's good, lady, your strengths. So many moms 458 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: are focused on what they can't do and not on 459 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 1: what they can do. Pinterest like the crafty stuff. I'm 460 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: a disaster. I can't cook. Also, by the way, I'm 461 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: a terrible cook and I'm horrendous. Unpinterest the same look 462 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: me a while to be like no, but there's other 463 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: stuff I'm good at. I'm not a professional like you, 464 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: but I'm a musical theater nerds, so I sing to 465 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: my kids all the time. That's the thing that I like. 466 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: You also are a doctor, and like when ship hits 467 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: the fan, when they're teenagers and they're having like real 468 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: mental emotional struggles. I know that you will be very 469 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: good at talking to them when they need help. Physician 470 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: heal myself, Katie, I mean, look much harder to use 471 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: these strategy on your right. It's but but you know, 472 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: but planking your strengths right and being like, why am 473 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: I focusing on the stuff I'm just not good at? 474 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 1: Not every mom has to be a Pinterest mom or 475 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: a mom who makes dinner. You focus on what you're 476 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 1: good at and what and you build on that. I 477 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: like this part of the book too. Not only can 478 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,479 Speaker 1: we not control ourselves, but we cannot control our children. 479 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: We cannot guarantee that said behavior that will be on display, 480 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: especially if our kid happens to be tired or cranky 481 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: or sick. How can we tell the difference if we're 482 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: in a situation where we just can't always control our 483 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: kids versus this action that our child just did can 484 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: be managed. This is huge for me because my child. 485 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: I am seethingly jealous of children who do what their 486 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: parents ask them to do. Yeah, well, here's the thing. 487 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 1: I think. You can't control the environment sometimes, right If 488 00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: you're like in the middle of like a really busy 489 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: space and your kid is totally overstimulated. You have limited 490 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: to no control over that environment. Your kid is also 491 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: your kid, and they have the temperament they have, right, Like, 492 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 1: I know you had Dan Siegel on right, he talked 493 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: about that absolutely. You know, you really have to think 494 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: about all right. I have a set of ideas in 495 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: my head for like the way that I want to, 496 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: you know, encourage my kid to listen, but I can't 497 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: beat myself up if they don't, you know, to go 498 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,239 Speaker 1: back to the parenting expert thing for a second. I 499 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: think one of the things that's so difficult about all 500 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: these experts coming out is that the message a lot 501 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 1: of moms received is like parenting is perfectible, and if 502 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: I just follow what this particular expert says, my kid 503 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: is going to do all that I want them to do. 504 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: But it doesn't work that way. It's so much more 505 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 1: complicated than Oh, it's so much more and you know, 506 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: it's from kid to kid veries so much so, like 507 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: you may have a plan down that works for your 508 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: first kid, and then you have a second kid, and 509 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: like your plan and not work. You got to forgive 510 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: of yourself, particularly again in those situations where like you 511 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: can identify you have no control. Going back to holidays 512 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 1: for a second, good luck. If you're a parent trying 513 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: to get your kid to like eat sensibly on Christmas 514 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: or Thanks good set those low expectations. Mommy, oh my god, 515 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: my kid eats only pie on Thanksgivings, Sam, like full hour, 516 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: that's it. Who cares? I think? Also, you know your 517 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: kid and you know if oh he didn't nab today, 518 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: Oh he really hasn't had a well balanced meal, and 519 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: a bunch of hours like this is other stuff going on, 520 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like that, there's that. Also, 521 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 1: this is also something that I found so helpful in 522 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: your book and I saw you talk about Oh I 523 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: think I saw it on your Instagram page. But the 524 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 1: two week rule genius. Yeah, for some of that struggles 525 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: with anxiety, this is genius. If your kid is doing 526 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: something that you don't love or is making causing you 527 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: to have anxiety instead of just like rushing to like 528 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: def con for in two weeks everything. It's like I've 529 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: never been more understanding that everything is a phase. Everything 530 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 1: is a phase. And I talked to moms about this 531 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: constantly because I mean, I cannot tell you the number 532 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 1: of times that a mom has come in and panicked 533 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: about her kids eating is a huge one for their 534 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: little sleep regressions. Oh my goodness, Oh my kid's gonna 535 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 1: be a sleep aggression like development. Like, oh, I went 536 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: to the park and I saw this other kid on 537 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,479 Speaker 1: the swing and my kid kept falling off, and you 538 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: name it, Mom's coming panicked. And I'm like, you know what, 539 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: do me a favor. Just wait two weeks before you panic, 540 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: before you go to dr Google this specialist, the therapist 541 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: talked all your friends about it. Break out, stay up 542 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: all night. Albi went through such a hitting phase. He 543 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: was the kid on the playground hitting the ship out 544 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: of babies. I've never been so upset in my life, 545 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: googling why kids hit da da da da Dad Like 546 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: it's done, it's over. I'm already to That was years ago. 547 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: I'm onto the next ship show exactly. Adam. We were 548 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: we were going through something difficult with that we I 549 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: don't even remember what it was. And my husband looked 550 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: at me and he was like, Katie, remember when he 551 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: used to hit everyone. I was like, oh yeah. He 552 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: was like, he doesn't do that anymore. And I was 553 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: like oh my god, you're right, what is gonna grow 554 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: out of it? No, totally. And what I'll hear back 555 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,239 Speaker 1: from moms who have more sort of anxiety issues as 556 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: they'll say, well, but what if it's actually a real problem, 557 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: And I'm like, you gotta trust yourself, like, and I'll 558 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: always reference because every mom has that story. There is 559 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: an emergency, you know your kid is in need, and 560 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: you spring into action faster than you know, like a 561 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: superhero would. So I'll always reference that story and I'll say, like, 562 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: remember when your kid got into I don't know, my 563 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: Maddie ran into a toy chest and split his head open. 564 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: I'm like, you know everyone has that story, and did 565 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,479 Speaker 1: you have any doubt that your kid was in need? 566 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: Did you even have to think about You know, it's different, right, 567 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: you know when it's an emergency, you know when it's 568 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: a problem. If you're thinking, oh, well is this normal? 569 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: Is it not? Give it two weeks? If you have 570 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: to hem and haw, that means it's not an emergency 571 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: and you can give it two weeks. And see, this 572 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: is so funny. I'm sorry that on this podcast I'm 573 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,959 Speaker 1: making my son seem like a little poop because he's not. 574 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: He's also miraculous and wondrous and kind and sweet and loving. 575 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: I just want to say that, but in these phases 576 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: that we're talking about, it makes me laugh so hard. 577 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: My husband will come out of Albi's room sometimes and 578 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: he'll be like, the devil has left our son before 579 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: we just wrap up the wonderful nous that is this book, 580 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: mom brain. This is insane to me and I need 581 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: so much help. How the hell am I supposed to 582 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: get out of mom brain to make time for date nights? 583 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: What would be an effective way for both parents to 584 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: have enough energy? Yeah, well, this is a managing expectations 585 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: thing too. First of all, let's keep them, let's keep right. 586 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: And that's the thing, like the biggest mess age that 587 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: I send to moms about just like sex after baby 588 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: in general, just communicate about it. That's great, Yeah, because 589 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: I think what happens so often is sometimes both partners. 590 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: Often it's one partner who's so burned out. And I 591 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: say often it's why because it can be the mom postpartum, right, 592 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: because the lot of stuff going on with your reality, 593 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: like you're not necessarily feeling super sexy. People will not 594 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: be into sex after baby and it could go on. 595 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: And I think the thing that's a problem for a 596 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: lot of people is they won't talk to their partner 597 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: about it. If you don't want to, you know, touch 598 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: your partner with a ten foot poll. You can tell 599 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: them that you know, but also explain why, Hey, I've 600 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: had kids draped all over me all day. The last 601 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: thing I want is more hands on me. Another part 602 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: of it, too, is you can have intimacy without full 603 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: on having sex. Absolutely, you can just be like, you 604 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: know what, after we put the kids in, do you 605 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: want to just sit down next to each other on 606 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: the couch and like watch the show. Oh that's like 607 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: huge for us. I'm like that intimacy. A lot of 608 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: people seem to feel like it's sex or nothing. First 609 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: of all, you have to figure out what feels comfortable 610 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: to you as a couple, which varies at different stages 611 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: in your life as a couple depending on a lot 612 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: of things. A lot of things count as intimacy and 613 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: can feel really close and intimate if you're not, you know, 614 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: really into having sex right now. I talked to mom 615 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: several times about this, where they'll say, you know, i'd 616 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: be into sex, But the issue is at night, I'm 617 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: so tired, I don't want to do it. And I'll say, okay, well, 618 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: like if you're kind of interested in bringing sex back, 619 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: is there something and your partners into it, Like, is 620 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: there something they can do to help you on some 621 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: night right? Maybe you say, hey, you want sex, I 622 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: want sex. I am too tired after tokens. You want 623 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: to handle tokens one night, you take care of bedtime 624 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: while I take a shower or like toel like change 625 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: my clothes and not be a smelly piece of ship, 626 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: any of that, any of that, any of it. But 627 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: I'll say, Katie, even more than that, it's like it's 628 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: just about communicating, even if what you're communicating it I 629 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: don't want this. You want to be able to just 630 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: say I am so sorry if it's been a minute. 631 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: I'm always like, I'm breastfeeding and I'm really dry, man, 632 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: like I need help. It's just part of the hormonal 633 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: thing of my body. All the liquids are going to breastmelt. 634 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: Good luck, you had to breast out all day. You're 635 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: excited to put him back in, Like you know, it's 636 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: so hard for everyone listening to get a babysitter to 637 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: have outside people come in your house if you're not 638 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: in your pod. It's expensive if that's not in your budget. 639 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: I mean, it's really a whole thing. We do Friday 640 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: night Shabbat now, which my god, we've been together seventeen years. 641 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: We've never done this and we are like holding onto 642 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: it because we just do. We light candles, We have 643 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 1: a dinner, and we watch a family movie with our son. 644 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: We tuck him in and then me and Adam hang out. 645 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: That exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah, as we wrap up, 646 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: is there anything that you would like to say about 647 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: your incredible book, Mom Brain? My hope is that moms 648 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: are just are kinder to each other, and particularly during COVID. 649 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I could go on and on, as 650 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: could you Katie, about how relentlessness has been for parents, 651 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 1: and so I think it's even more important that you 652 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: are kind to yourself, that you are mindful of your 653 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: negative emotions, that you are taking care of yourself. I 654 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 1: cannot speak to that enough. Finish this sentence. Parenthood is, 655 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I'm a Parenthood is constantly surprising. WHOA 656 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: we haven't had that one? And I like it. Everyone 657 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,879 Speaker 1: run out get this book Mom Brain. It is so 658 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 1: helpful and really in my mission for this podcast. It 659 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,320 Speaker 1: does the most important thing, which is makes me feel 660 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: less alone. And I'm so appreciative of your time and 661 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: all the moms that you're helping in summent. Du Zy 662 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:06,320 Speaker 1: you lucky moms. Thank you, oh my gosh, my pleasure. 663 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for listening to today's episode. 664 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: I want to hear from you. Let's chat questions, comments, concerns. 665 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,280 Speaker 1: Let me know. You can always find me at Katie's 666 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: Crib at Shonda land dot com. Katie's Crib is a 667 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 1: production of Shonda Land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. 668 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the I Heart 669 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 670 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: favorite shows.