Speaker 1: Previously on Death and Deceit in Alliance?
Speaker 2: Is there any version of the story that is he's
Speaker 2: sticking to.
Speaker 3: That's a tough one to answer.
Speaker 4: My boyfriend at the time we saw him there that night.
Speaker 5: We didn't know it was that night at the time.
Speaker 6: If David did this and you know you didn't and
Speaker 6: you're protecting him or whatever, then we need to know that.
Speaker 5: What did you think?
Speaker 4: Is he this like bumbling idiot that you know?
Speaker 5: Seems like he's been portrayed us.
Speaker 7: How confident are you that Joe had made mention that
Speaker 7: his friend David wanted his wife killed before it happened.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, this is Death and Deceit and Alliance a
Speaker 8: real time investigation into whether David Thorne killed Yvonne Lane.
Speaker 1: I'm Maggie.
Speaker 9: We pulled up to the Marian Correctional Institution, a medium
Speaker 9: security prison with twenty five hundred prisoners. It looked a
Speaker 9: lot like well, a prison, high walls, turrets, with guards
Speaker 9: with rifles, barbed wire, the kind of place that's very
Speaker 9: scary to visit.
Speaker 10: I guess we turn in, well, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 10: I think we go up well, I don't know. They're
Speaker 10: not being very helpful I think it's down here.
Speaker 3: I think so too.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think we could have a couple hours if
Speaker 6: we wanted from one understand.
Speaker 4: Who and there is no texting me, so I could
Speaker 4: be sitting here for four hours.
Speaker 3: We're not going to be in there for four hours.
Speaker 1: Famous last words.
Speaker 3: All right, hold on, we have a smoke burst. I'm
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go ahead and go in.
Speaker 9: They took everything out of their pockets, left phones, recorders, notebooks,
Speaker 9: and they left me alone in the car in the
Speaker 9: parking lot.
Speaker 3: All right, let's go hello.
Speaker 9: This was the conversation we'd been working up to four months.
Speaker 9: We'd been circling Joe, talking to everyone around him. He
Speaker 9: was the mystery at the center of this, the guy
Speaker 9: who implicated himself and David. Would Joe give us something new?
Speaker 9: I had built him up in my mind for months,
Speaker 9: nearly a year, And now we were here.
Speaker 1: The guys were inside meeting him, and I was stuck
Speaker 1: waiting in the car, and I waited and waited and
Speaker 1: made some Instagram videos.
Speaker 2: Joe Wilkes right there, and I'm just sitting and I'm
Speaker 2: so frustrated and excited and nervous.
Speaker 9: And waited and sure enough, almost exactly four hours later,
Speaker 9: the guy's emerged here. The answer to how it's going is,
Speaker 9: I'm incredibly hungry and anxious.
Speaker 5: You guys go in, you meet Joe.
Speaker 4: What are your impressions of Joe?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was glad to finally meet Joe.
Speaker 9: Joe apparently looked good. He's six' two and in great,
Speaker 9: shape prison. Muscles he had tattoos up and down both.
Speaker 9: Arms they said he looked.
Speaker 3: TOUGH i, mean what did you?
Speaker 4: Think is he this like bumbling idiot that you? Know
Speaker 4: it seems like he's been portrayed as absolutely.
Speaker 6: Not he's Very he's a smart. Guy he's very. Engaging
Speaker 6: he's a good, communicator great, vocabulary a very likable.
Speaker 7: Guy, listen extremely well like he is. Processing he's very
Speaker 7: good in processing shared, information.
Speaker 3: Very, Focused.
Speaker 6: And it, was you, KNOW i Liked. JOE i liked
Speaker 6: sitting With joe for three plus. HOURS i really found him,
Speaker 6: engaging AND.
Speaker 3: I just liked the.
Speaker 11: Guy, yeah you, KNOW i think, frankly over the last
Speaker 11: couple of, decades as you, Know david's had at least
Speaker 11: a staunch advocate this whole, time and plenty of staunch.
Speaker 3: Advocates.
Speaker 6: Now it's good to you, know it was good For
Speaker 6: joe to hear that there are people that he knew
Speaker 6: and loved back then that's still are out here and
Speaker 6: remember him as a kind guy that they loved then
Speaker 6: and still loved.
Speaker 3: Today and that really overwhelmed.
Speaker 4: Him to know that that was the first time he
Speaker 4: found that.
Speaker 6: Out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeahs he probably didn't even know.
Speaker 9: That Back the guys told, Me joe got choked up
Speaker 9: hearing about the people on the outside that still care about,
Speaker 9: him Like sam And, chris even.
Speaker 3: Me we weren't trying to make him, Ivose, no not at.
Speaker 3: All it was very.
Speaker 6: Natural, yeah we were passing messages along to him that
Speaker 6: we told people we went to pass along to, it.
Speaker 7: And while we were face to face at that, moment
Speaker 7: he turned his body sideways because his eyes were filling
Speaker 7: up with.
Speaker 3: Tears and then it was touching for us because like
Speaker 3: this this good guy who does still, care he has
Speaker 3: a love for.
Speaker 6: People at one, point he, Said i've been in the
Speaker 6: system my whole life SINCE i was one year, old
Speaker 6: either foster care or you, know jail. Prison But i've
Speaker 6: been in the system of my entire.
Speaker 9: Life but you're not here to know. That the guys Liked,
Speaker 9: joe you want to know if the police got this.
Speaker 9: Wrong you want to know what really happened In Yvonne
Speaker 9: lane's house the night Of march thirty, first nineteen ninety.
Speaker 1: Nine so DO i.
Speaker 5: Do you guys believe that there was coercion from?
Speaker 3: Police, YES.
Speaker 6: I believe at best they did some things that they
Speaker 6: should not have done to forward this.
Speaker 9: Case the guy said that even Though joe was told
Speaker 9: by police he could leave at, anytime he said he
Speaker 9: was treated like a.
Speaker 1: Captive he told them he was, restrained.
Speaker 7: But if he was Handcuffed jane to a, wall that's
Speaker 7: just not. True that's Not you're not free to.
Speaker 9: Leave the cops slammed down, photos he, said bloody photos
Speaker 9: of the crime, scene and made him stare at.
Speaker 7: Them and they're slapping pictures down on the, table and
Speaker 7: he said he was horrified looking at these. Pictures and
Speaker 7: then they come in and introduce this statement That david had.
Speaker 9: Written joseph's police tell him That david is basically pointing
Speaker 9: the finger at, him even though he, wasn't and he.
Speaker 7: Said he's so overwhelmed by the graphic nature of these.
Speaker 7: Photos he's not reading what this document reportedly Was david
Speaker 7: giving a.
Speaker 4: Statement so they did they tell him what to?
Speaker 6: Say he said that they gave them a, statement that
Speaker 6: they they told him what.
Speaker 3: Happened they told him what, happened and.
Speaker 4: Essentially that was what, happened like you did this and
Speaker 4: this and.
Speaker 3: This, yes That david hired and to do.
Speaker 7: It and he said it actually started in the car
Speaker 7: ride when they picked him.
Speaker 3: Up they're in the car with him telling, Him oh,
Speaker 3: Yeah David thorn told.
Speaker 1: Us, guilder we've heard this.
Speaker 9: Before joe testified at, trial saying they fed him the.
Speaker 9: STORY i asked about his best, Friend Sam. Peg did
Speaker 9: he say he Told sam that he Killed?
Speaker 5: Yvonne did he say he Told Sam?
Speaker 3: Peg he says that he didn't tell her that.
Speaker 6: And he does not remember ever telling her, that says
Speaker 6: he didn't the shrade.
Speaker 5: Knife whose knife is? That how is it?
Speaker 3: There there's he has no. Recollection he, SAID i had
Speaker 3: plenty of. KNIVES i didn't buy a knife a K
Speaker 3: mark that.
Speaker 9: Day but the cops story is That joe took them
Speaker 9: to find the knife that they claim was the murder.
Speaker 6: Weapon but he says specifically that it was a police
Speaker 6: that took him to where that knife.
Speaker 5: Was going to be So rose And.
Speaker 4: Chris did he see, Them, Yes.
Speaker 6: Yes he did see them the night of That wednesday.
Speaker 6: NIGHT i saw them at the, mall bumped into, them
Speaker 6: says the conversation was, casual that he did not give
Speaker 6: any statements about he was there to kill, somebody and in,
Speaker 6: fact he you, know he specifically, Said i'm not a stupid.
Speaker 6: Guy if IF i was there to kill, Somebody i'm
Speaker 6: not going to tell two people That i'm there to
Speaker 6: kill somebody and then go kill.
Speaker 2: Them did he know if On, Yes so he liked
Speaker 2: this question of had he been?
Speaker 5: There did he know?
Speaker 3: Her, yes he had been to her house multiple.
Speaker 2: TIMES a question is Did joe say he did?
Speaker 6: This, No joe said he absolutely did not do. This
Speaker 6: so he adamantly maintains his innocence that he did not kill.
Speaker 5: Avonline Did david do?
Speaker 3: This no, Indication, yeah no indication That david did. This
Speaker 3: he believes That david didn't do.
Speaker 6: It he told us that over and over That david
Speaker 6: didn't have anything to do with. It he didn't have
Speaker 6: anything to do with.
Speaker 2: It so you found him to be, Honest, yeah or
Speaker 2: at LEAST.
Speaker 4: I, MEAN i, mean when he tells YOU i didn't do.
Speaker 4: This do you believe? Him do you believe that he
Speaker 4: believes he didn't do?
Speaker 3: THIS i believe he believes he didn't do. This, YEAH
Speaker 3: i absolutely believe he believes he didn't do.
Speaker 9: IT i know this sounds. Confusing someone either committed murder or. Didn't, Right,
Speaker 9: well we know that people can lie to. Themselves they
Speaker 9: can block stuff, out they can convince themselves that something
Speaker 9: is the, truth even if it objectively. Isn't and they
Speaker 9: Said joe seemed believable when he said he was, innocent
Speaker 9: and for whatever is, worth they didn't since.
Speaker 1: He was lying To AND i asked WHAT i thought
Speaker 1: was a simple, question.
Speaker 5: Do we have a timeline for? Him what is his?
Speaker 6: Story we don't have the timeline that we would like
Speaker 6: to have as far as the events of that. Night
Speaker 6: is that what we're, Asking, Well i'll let you take.
Speaker 6: It you, know there's just there's a version of events
Speaker 6: that he's sticking. To, Yes so to answer your, question,
Speaker 6: yes there is a version of events that he's sticking.
Speaker 6: To now the follow up question is what's that version of?
Speaker 9: Events and this is Where joe's story gets even more
Speaker 9: complicated than we ever. Imagined remember the coroner couldn't pinpoint
Speaker 9: the exact time of. Death he gave a twelve hour
Speaker 9: window that started at seven pm the night of the thirty.
Speaker 9: First joe tells them That march thirty, first between three
Speaker 9: to two five, pm he got dropped off at the
Speaker 9: mall and walked To yvonne's to proposition her for. Sex,
Speaker 9: now he, said in one of these, versions when he got,
Speaker 9: there she was. Dead this, time he. Said when he got,
Speaker 9: there he showed her a one hundred dollars bill and
Speaker 9: told her he had a room at The Comfort. Inn
Speaker 9: yvonne said she'd come by, later So joe. Left when
Speaker 9: he got back to the, mall that's when he Saw
Speaker 9: rose And. Chris and, Then joe, says the next thing he,
Speaker 9: remembers he's in the. Shower in the shower the next,
Speaker 9: Morning april, first he says he has no idea what
Speaker 9: happened after he Saw rose And.
Speaker 4: Chris do you believe him that he can't? Remember do
Speaker 4: you think he's? Lying do you know?
Speaker 12: WHAT i think he really doesn't. KNOW i think he
Speaker 12: really doesn't. Remember, now has he suppressed that subcosts or?
Speaker 12: Cautiously quite?
Speaker 1: Possibly this was just incredible to. Me maybe after all these.
Speaker 9: Years the reason he has told so many different stories
Speaker 9: is because he just can't. Remember maybe he thought no
Speaker 9: one would believe him if he said he had amnesia
Speaker 9: for fourteen. Hours i'm more confused than. Ever we continued
Speaker 9: to work through. Scenarios was there, THIS.
Speaker 2: I have someone coming, Over i'll meet you. Later, yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah so that person could have killed?
Speaker 5: Her could Have who was that? Person?
Speaker 6: Well, well he even said IF i knew, THAT i
Speaker 6: wouldn't still be sitting here right.
Speaker 3: Now, yeah so.
Speaker 5: She's according to, him he went there.
Speaker 4: Proposition she, Said, OKAY i will meet you at the.
Speaker 4: HOTEL i got someone coming over. Now and he goes
Speaker 4: back to the hotel and SEES Rogi.
Speaker 5: Chrichton that's. It joe says.
Speaker 1: He doesn't know who the supposed visitor.
Speaker 2: Was but did he seem frustrated or did it seem
Speaker 2: like a convenient lapse?
Speaker 12: In, No, oh he's, frustrated but it doesn't seem like
Speaker 12: he was he was using that to his Convenient BUT
Speaker 12: i really think he struggles to find what's true what's.
Speaker 9: Not they said they Felt joe was trying desperately to
Speaker 9: help them figure out what was going. On they felt
Speaker 9: he recognized this is the first, time not Just david
Speaker 9: would be getting a fair, shot and that meant maybe
Speaker 9: it was his turn.
Speaker 2: Too did he think it was weird the next morning
Speaker 2: that he doesn't remember.
Speaker 3: Anything, well, yes he thinks it's. WEIRD i, mean and
Speaker 3: he just, said he, SAID i Don't.
Speaker 6: I'm not trying to get dick too far out, there
Speaker 6: BUT i almost wonder if somebody drugged me AND i
Speaker 6: DID i know.
Speaker 7: IT i felt like he really wanted to genuinely give
Speaker 7: a his.
Speaker 3: Best. Yeah, YEAH i think so.
Speaker 7: Too it's a lot of that was he wanted to
Speaker 7: impress us because he wants us to fight for.
Speaker 9: It so if this is true That joe was at the,
Speaker 9: house that's going to be really hard to get.
Speaker 1: Around and that leads us to the possibility That joe
Speaker 1: did do.
Speaker 4: It what are the chances this kind man snaps Because
Speaker 4: yvonne just doesn't want to have sex with.
Speaker 3: HIM i don't know. What, NO i, mean that's one
Speaker 3: of the possibilities that we.
Speaker 13: Have to partamions like. THAT i feel like that's definitely.
Speaker 13: Possible he goes to The trump to get this. Room
Speaker 13: his impression is she's. Easy he's finally gonna get him
Speaker 13: some she doesn't, Show she doesn't.
Speaker 3: Show he sits there in fucking.
Speaker 7: Fumes here he is in a hotel room by, himself
Speaker 7: down to his last hundred.
Speaker 4: Bucks he doesn't seemed like a. Fumor we've never heard
Speaker 4: of him getting.
Speaker 3: That no, Ye so he either goes back down there
Speaker 3: to confront her about not showing, up.
Speaker 12: Hilts, her or goes back down there to confront her
Speaker 12: about not showing up and finds her dead bottom.
Speaker 3: Or both could be out in thee and wakes up
Speaker 3: in the.
Speaker 1: Shower the blackout is so.
Speaker 9: Confusing maybe he really did walk in on her dead
Speaker 9: and blacked it.
Speaker 3: Out that's just gone in his bod.
Speaker 7: And he's either intensely pocketed and never let it, out
Speaker 7: or subconsciously it is just so. Buried he's not going
Speaker 7: to go. There he's not going to retreat. It it's
Speaker 7: no desire. To SO i think maybe in his mind he's.
Speaker 7: Afraid maybe he has to be wondering DID i kill?
Speaker 9: Him and while we were, processing there was something strange
Speaker 9: that stuck out To john And danny in the four
Speaker 9: hours they were With joe the, timeline he said he
Speaker 9: was At elon's between three and, Five but we know
Speaker 9: for a Fact joe was at The enox at five
Speaker 9: pm With david and The lion The. Enochs those are
Speaker 9: the parents Of joe's friend who'd taken him in for
Speaker 9: a short, time And Brent enoch testified that he Took
Speaker 9: joe to do a job and dropped him off at
Speaker 9: the mall at eight p. M this was testified to at. Trial, Joe,
Speaker 9: david and The enochs all agreed at trial that's where
Speaker 9: everyone was at five. Pm so why Is joe making
Speaker 9: something up that is so obviously not corroborated?
Speaker 5: Either do we.
Speaker 4: Have next steps right?
Speaker 5: Now how are you?
Speaker 4: Feeling what are you?
Speaker 3: Thinking, well that's That's it's a. LOT i mean these
Speaker 3: if it was if it was, easy.
Speaker 12: We would all fly in with our camera crew and
Speaker 12: do a three day investigation and talk to four. People
Speaker 12: we talked to eight people today And i'll work till
Speaker 12: midnight or one o'clock and then we have to decompress
Speaker 12: and revisit all the bits of information and say how
Speaker 12: does this puzzle fit? Together and it's a lot because
Speaker 12: the memories you, Know, joe let us know he, Ah
Speaker 12: and that's the challenge on how we proceed is because
Speaker 12: there are things That joe just does not.
Speaker 3: Remember is bad as he wants.
Speaker 12: To he goes to bed every night with the full
Speaker 12: recognition That Yvonne lane is her death is the reason
Speaker 12: that he's sleeping in that. Bomb and in the, morning
Speaker 12: each morning when he wakes, up he has still full
Speaker 12: recognition That Ivon, lane her murder is the reason he's
Speaker 12: waking up in The.
Speaker 6: Yeah even if he did not do it, right her
Speaker 6: death is what led to him being in.
Speaker 12: There so, dreams the, visions the, hopes the reliving old,
Speaker 12: memories reminiscing whatever it may, be the autopsy, photos the,
Speaker 12: trial the civil, trial the reporters and, investigators the advocates For,
Speaker 12: david everything that he's. Experienced it's very hard for him
Speaker 12: to remember what's real and what's.
Speaker 4: NOT i can't imagine yeah That.
Speaker 9: So maybe he's just making up the blackout so he
Speaker 9: doesn't have to answer any questions about what happened between
Speaker 9: him And. David maybe he's banking ON dna to point
Speaker 9: to someone, else and if it, Doesn't joe can always, say,
Speaker 9: WELL i told.
Speaker 1: YOU i was there that night and was just. Confused
Speaker 1: maybe they did do it.
Speaker 9: Together after all fourteen hour amnesia is quite. Convenient and
Speaker 9: Then john finally says.
Speaker 6: IT i, mean If i'm sitting here right, NOW i
Speaker 6: think That joe Had.
Speaker 12: YEAH i think it's tough just to get the words,
Speaker 12: out isn't it just to say what we know to be,
Speaker 12: true what we?
Speaker 7: Believe is very plas about, That, yeah it's, true what
Speaker 7: the fuck is?
Speaker 9: True probably after processing in the, Car john admits he
Speaker 9: Believes joe was, involved even though the writing is on the.
Speaker 1: WALL i just wasn't ready to admit.
Speaker 9: IT i couldn't get past that there could have been
Speaker 9: someone else, there that someone else could have killed.
Speaker 7: Her she definitely had enough traffic at that. Place this
Speaker 7: is to have been a house where that kind of
Speaker 7: event may have. Happened that's, Right but god dang fatality of,
Speaker 7: yes Right, Sam sam's, statement christ And rose's Statement chris
Speaker 7: IS i Mean joe turn left left?
Speaker 6: LEFT i, mean we we all agree that this is
Speaker 6: a violent, scene.
Speaker 5: Like even in a.
Speaker 4: BLACKOUT i don't know If joe had that.
Speaker 5: RAGE i have no.
Speaker 3: IDEA i, mean that's WHAT i don't.
Speaker 2: Know AND i would love an expert to tell me
Speaker 2: if they've ever seen. That, yeah like rage like that
Speaker 2: come out in a.
Speaker 4: Blackout, yeah good.
Speaker 3: BOY i, mean what's the old.
Speaker 6: SAYING i, mean this isn't clinical, blackout But i'm seeing.
Speaker 6: Red you're so damn mad that you can't even you
Speaker 6: just can see. Red you know you.
Speaker 1: Can't and so let's Say joe was.
Speaker 4: Involved do you believe him when he Says david's not?
Speaker 3: Involved that's. Tough that's, tough you.
Speaker 6: KNOW i, mean there's there's, listen there's a lot of
Speaker 6: scenarios that are possible right. Now, YES i believe, them
Speaker 6: but there's still some things that some questions that need
Speaker 6: to be.
Speaker 3: Answered you brought up, earlier.
Speaker 6: You, KNOW i go back to and that's just a
Speaker 6: scenario that we have to consider at this, point OR i.
Speaker 6: Do AND i still looking back At, sam found her
Speaker 6: to be pretty damn credible last.
Speaker 9: Night it was just all so much to take in
Speaker 9: going into this investigation THINKING i would find one thing
Speaker 9: and having the facts start to lay out something. Different
Speaker 9: If joe was, involved it really raises the question Was david.
Speaker 9: Too i've spent two years trying to figure that, out
Speaker 9: expecting the answers to be, No David thorne was, innocent
Speaker 9: but laying out the facts we've, gathered. Reconciling what they
Speaker 9: all point to overwhelmed.
Speaker 2: ME i don't, KNOW i feel LIKE i got like,
Speaker 2: UP i feel LIKE i that.
Speaker 5: EMOTIONAL i don't, Know i'd feel really.
Speaker 3: Confused this is.
Speaker 7: An emotional word dealing with people's, lives really.
Speaker 3: CONFUSED i don't WANT i have no. Regrets you guys
Speaker 3: have spent so much. Time this has been a great
Speaker 3: journey for, us and it's not.
Speaker 12: Over okay That i'm not even there and the town
Speaker 12: is still in the trainer's.
Speaker 3: Bench we're not throwing it. In, yeah we have work to.
Speaker 6: Do it is, deflating but that's how every single fucking
Speaker 6: one of these cases. GOES i, mean there are deflating.
Speaker 6: Days there, are you, know that's just the reality of.
Speaker 5: It i'm just, like what If david did?
Speaker 3: This it's a fair, Question.
Speaker 2: MAGGIE i don't think he, did but Now i'm really,
Speaker 2: like what if he fucking?
Speaker 5: Did AND i just invested all.
Speaker 3: Of this.
Speaker 5: Hell bent on his Innocence.
Speaker 9: And i'm just going to ADD i can now see
Speaker 9: how investigators and law enforcement get tunnel, vision make a,
Speaker 9: judgment and look for ways to to prove. IT i
Speaker 9: had to try so hard not to do that. Here
Speaker 9: even WHEN i saw the writing on the, wall my
Speaker 9: heart was still telling me something.
Speaker 5: ELSE i think IT'S i THINK i just felt so
Speaker 5: strongly for a while and NOW i just don't know
Speaker 5: and start hitting. Me AND i never have, emotions so
Speaker 5: that's a.
Speaker 3: LOT i. KNOW i just think about.
Speaker 5: SEE i don't want to have to say to her
Speaker 5: THE i.
Speaker 3: KNOW i, Know maggie that the whole thought of all
Speaker 3: that makes me really sad.
Speaker 6: Too everybody that we have talked, to everything that we have,
Speaker 6: learned everything that has every direction that we've been pointed,
Speaker 6: in for the most, part has shown this is a
Speaker 6: worthy case to.
Speaker 3: Investigate, Definitely so it say worthy case to.
Speaker 6: Investigate SO i have no, regrets but worthy cases sometimes.
Speaker 3: Don't pan out to be an innocence.
Speaker 14: Case, yeah, yeah we're not even.
Speaker 15: There we're not. There, look we're, fighters all of, us
Speaker 15: win or, lose right or. Wrong we're fighting through this
Speaker 15: to get to the, answers.
Speaker 1: Answers THAT i just wasn't ready to deal.
Speaker 14: With but there are some real issues with, this there,
Speaker 14: are Right i'm now AM i trying to convince myself
Speaker 14: he didn't do this BECAUSE i don't want to deal
Speaker 14: with the fact THAT i just fucking threw an entire
Speaker 14: department under the bus for fucking up an investigation that
Speaker 14: maybe they.
Speaker 6: Didn't well WHAT i Told, Danny, well while you were
Speaker 6: on the, PHONE i, said listen is not mutually.
Speaker 3: EXCLUSIVE i mean sometimes the bubbling idiots get it right by. Accident,
Speaker 3: well a broken clock is right twice a.
Speaker 5: Day so, Yeah i'm just trying to reckon with that right.
Speaker 3: NOW i, Know, MAGGIE i, know believe. ME i.
Speaker 16: Know if it turns out worst case, scenario we were
Speaker 16: wrong And david did have a role in, This and,
Speaker 16: anyway we at least can go to bed and say
Speaker 16: we gave it everything we, had more than any other
Speaker 16: motherfuckers in THEIR tv shows or their reporting anyone. Else,
Speaker 16: yeah there was enough enough damage done in this investigation
Speaker 16: to warrant us being, here.
Speaker 3: The commitment we all made to.
Speaker 1: This, yeah, yeah you just feel a little.
Speaker 3: Stupid, no, no, no, no, No.
Speaker 7: Why would you feel. Stupid you have something that was
Speaker 7: brought into our life for a. Reason And i'm not
Speaker 7: trying to be zig zigglar. Here i'm just saying we're
Speaker 7: here for a. REASON i haven't given up On david Or.
Speaker 7: Joe we have to keep trudging. On body blows coming every, investigation,
Speaker 7: right especially twenty two year old murder.
Speaker 17: Investigations, yeah, yeah this is you, know this is A
Speaker 17: this is a knockdown with a three count for, sure
Speaker 17: got seven to?
Speaker 1: Go where do we?
Speaker 5: GO i, mean what are we what are we even?
Speaker 5: Doing it's four. O'clock what are we? Doing for the first?
Speaker 9: Time we decided to pack it in for the. Day
Speaker 9: we needed to take a, break hit the hotel bar
Speaker 9: and clear our. Heads But i'm not much of a
Speaker 9: head clearer in a situation like. This my brain was,
Speaker 9: swirling and it turns out neither are the. Guys so
Speaker 9: we sat at the, bar pouring through, documents trying, frantically
Speaker 9: furiously to find, something something we missed at LEAST i.
Speaker 9: WAS i THINK i wanted something that would settle, me
Speaker 9: make me comfortable with all the Time i'd invested In
Speaker 9: David thorne and his claim of. INNOCENCE i don't know
Speaker 9: what the comfort would. Be something solidly saying he's, guilty
Speaker 9: or something solidly saying he's.
Speaker 1: INNOCENT i don't.
Speaker 9: Know but we did find, something something that did give
Speaker 9: me the missing PIECE i was looking. For we came
Speaker 9: across a police report buried in the case file one
Speaker 9: that would change. Everything it Was sue who had given
Speaker 9: me the case, files and in the file was a
Speaker 9: folder of transcripts of audio.
Speaker 1: Interviews every TIME i.
Speaker 9: Listened to an audio, File sue had a transcript she
Speaker 9: made to read along with. It, NOW i had gotten
Speaker 9: the audio files myself from the DA's, office SO i
Speaker 9: knew whatever they had given to the PUBLIC i also.
Speaker 9: Had BUT i Had i'd never seen a transcript for
Speaker 9: this particular, interview SO i checked my audio, folder and sure,
Speaker 9: enough there was an interview with a woman Named, angie
Speaker 9: the woman in the police. Report but WHEN i checked
Speaker 9: the transcripts, again there wasn't. One maybe an oversight On sue's.
Speaker 9: Behalf but WHEN i decided to listen to the interview
Speaker 9: With angie and found out who she was and what
Speaker 9: she had.
Speaker 1: To, say this didn't seem.
Speaker 9: Like an accidental oversight to Omit angie's transcript from the.
Speaker 9: Files it seemed like this was an audio RECORDING i
Speaker 9: wasn't meant to know. About angie Was david's ex, girlfriend
Speaker 9: and she told police they dated for about five years
Speaker 9: four years, ago so that would be around nineteen ninety.
Speaker 9: Five right Before david Met. Yvonne and this is tape
Speaker 9: from a police interview With. ANGIE i had never heard.
Speaker 18: Before can you just draw up to me on the
Speaker 18: take here how he treated you in so many instances
Speaker 18: that happened while you were dating, morning very, aggressive very.
Speaker 1: Since coming up on deaf And deceit In, alliance you,
Speaker 1: KNOW i.
Speaker 3: Think there's a lot of questions that have never been
Speaker 3: asked of. Him who was he? Really And i'm NOT
Speaker 3: i don't want him to try to bullshit.
Speaker 7: Us you, know when you leave an interview and you
Speaker 7: feel like you've shared more information than the person who's
Speaker 7: fighting for their, life.
Speaker 3: There's a reason behind. That AND i said a point
Speaker 3: blank did that? Happen? No and then he changed the
Speaker 3: subject pretty. Quickly, man then it started turning for. It that's,
Speaker 3: fine you, know we know memories on tape. Recorders just
Speaker 3: tell us what you do.
Speaker 7: Remember and he left out he was not going to
Speaker 7: bring up the fact that he was With joe at The.
Speaker 3: Hemings, yeah, hello is this Mister, Toole Charlie? TOOLE i
Speaker 3: don't know who's.
Speaker 9: This death And deceit In alliance is produced and reported
Speaker 9: by Me Maggie freeling with editorial consulting From Amber. Hunt
Speaker 9: Aaron case is our legal. Researcher our executive producer Is Steve.
Speaker 9: Fishman our engineer and production coordinator Is Austin. Smith Eric
Speaker 9: axelrod is our assistant.
Speaker 1: Producer