WEBVTT - Death & Deceit in Alliance | 12. The Choir Boy 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.920 Previously on Death and Deceit in Alliance? 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:07.120 Is there any version of the story that is he's 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:07.720 sticking to. 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:11.840 That's a tough one to answer. 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:15.440 My boyfriend at the time we saw him there that night. 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:17.800 We didn't know it was that night at the time. 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:22.240 If David did this and you know you didn't and 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:24.920 you're protecting him or whatever, then we need to know that. 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:25.800 What did you think? 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:28.800 Is he this like bumbling idiot that you know? 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:30.440 Seems like he's been portrayed us. 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:35.960 How confident are you that Joe had made mention that 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:39.600 his friend David wanted his wife killed before it happened. 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:53.360 Oh yeah, this is Death and Deceit and Alliance a 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:58.760 real time investigation into whether David Thorne killed Yvonne Lane. 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:04.840 I'm Maggie. 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:15.440 We pulled up to the Marian Correctional Institution, a medium 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:19.840 security prison with twenty five hundred prisoners. It looked a 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:24.240 lot like well, a prison, high walls, turrets, with guards 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:28.440 with rifles, barbed wire, the kind of place that's very 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:29.440 scary to visit. 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:33.399 I guess we turn in, well, yeah, I don't know. 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:38.160 I think we go up well, I don't know. They're 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:40.640 not being very helpful I think it's down here. 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:42.000 I think so too. 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:48.920 Yeah, I think we could have a couple hours if 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:51.760 we wanted from one understand. 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:53.360 Who and there is no texting me, so I could 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:54.640 be sitting here for four hours. 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:57.680 We're not going to be in there for four hours. 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:00.960 Famous last words. 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:07.520 All right, hold on, we have a smoke burst. I'm 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:09.639 I'm gonna go ahead and go in. 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.600 They took everything out of their pockets, left phones, recorders, notebooks, 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:17.520 and they left me alone in the car in the 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:18.200 parking lot. 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.520 All right, let's go hello. 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:28.440 This was the conversation we'd been working up to four months. 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:32.960 We'd been circling Joe, talking to everyone around him. He 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:36.440 was the mystery at the center of this, the guy 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:41.720 who implicated himself and David. Would Joe give us something new? 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:45.239 I had built him up in my mind for months, 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:48.200 nearly a year, And now we were here. 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:52.440 The guys were inside meeting him, and I was stuck 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:58.000 waiting in the car, and I waited and waited and 0:02:58.120 --> 0:02:59.720 made some Instagram videos. 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:03.320 Joe Wilkes right there, and I'm just sitting and I'm 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:07.240 so frustrated and excited and nervous. 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:11.480 And waited and sure enough, almost exactly four hours later, 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:18.520 the guy's emerged here. The answer to how it's going is, 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:21.120 I'm incredibly hungry and anxious. 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:24.120 You guys go in, you meet Joe. 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:27.359 What are your impressions of Joe? 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.640 Yeah, I was glad to finally meet Joe. 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:36.120 Joe apparently looked good. He's six' two and in great, 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:40.040 shape prison. Muscles he had tattoos up and down both. 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:41.520 Arms they said he looked. 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:43.200 TOUGH i, mean what did you? 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:46.520 Think is he this like bumbling idiot that you? Know 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.400 it seems like he's been portrayed as absolutely. 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.560 Not he's Very he's a smart. Guy he's very. Engaging 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:59.760 he's a good, communicator great, vocabulary a very likable. 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:06.840 Guy, listen extremely well like he is. Processing he's very 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.360 good in processing shared, information. 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:11.000 Very, Focused. 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:18.200 And it, was you, KNOW i Liked. JOE i liked 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:23.080 sitting With joe for three plus. HOURS i really found him, 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:24.400 engaging AND. 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:28.279 I just liked the. 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:35.279 Guy, yeah you, KNOW i think, frankly over the last 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:42.000 couple of, decades as you, Know david's had at least 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:46.240 a staunch advocate this whole, time and plenty of staunch. 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:46.800 Advocates. 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:52.039 Now it's good to you, know it was good For 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:56.239 joe to hear that there are people that he knew 0:04:56.279 --> 0:05:01.280 and loved back then that's still are out here and 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:06.360 remember him as a kind guy that they loved then 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:07.520 and still loved. 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:11.719 Today and that really overwhelmed. 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.280 Him to know that that was the first time he 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:13.680 found that. 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:14.000 Out. 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:16.680 Yeah, yeahs he probably didn't even know. 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:19.120 That Back the guys told, Me joe got choked up 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:22.440 hearing about the people on the outside that still care about, 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.520 him Like sam And, chris even. 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:29.520 Me we weren't trying to make him, Ivose, no not at. 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:30.400 All it was very. 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.240 Natural, yeah we were passing messages along to him that 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:35.039 we told people we went to pass along to, it. 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:38.080 And while we were face to face at that, moment 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:40.920 he turned his body sideways because his eyes were filling 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:41.240 up with. 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:43.880 Tears and then it was touching for us because like 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:48.040 this this good guy who does still, care he has 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:48.400 a love for. 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:50.800 People at one, point he, Said i've been in the 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:53.000 system my whole life SINCE i was one year, old 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:57.120 either foster care or you, know jail. Prison But i've 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:58.559 been in the system of my entire. 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:03.360 Life but you're not here to know. That the guys Liked, 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:05.640 joe you want to know if the police got this. 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:10.000 Wrong you want to know what really happened In Yvonne 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:14.239 lane's house the night Of march thirty, first nineteen ninety. 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:16.040 Nine so DO i. 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:25.599 Do you guys believe that there was coercion from? 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:27.040 Police, YES. 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:33.920 I believe at best they did some things that they 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.400 should not have done to forward this. 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.000 Case the guy said that even Though joe was told 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.080 by police he could leave at, anytime he said he 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:43.920 was treated like a. 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:47.159 Captive he told them he was, restrained. 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:49.400 But if he was Handcuffed jane to a, wall that's 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:53.120 just not. True that's Not you're not free to. 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:57.719 Leave the cops slammed down, photos he, said bloody photos 0:06:57.800 --> 0:06:59.920 of the crime, scene and made him stare at. 0:06:59.920 --> 0:07:03.840 Them and they're slapping pictures down on the, table and 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:06.800 he said he was horrified looking at these. Pictures and 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:09.520 then they come in and introduce this statement That david had. 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:13.840 Written joseph's police tell him That david is basically pointing 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.960 the finger at, him even though he, wasn't and he. 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.880 Said he's so overwhelmed by the graphic nature of these. 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:25.920 Photos he's not reading what this document reportedly Was david 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:26.840 giving a. 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:30.760 Statement so they did they tell him what to? 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:35.040 Say he said that they gave them a, statement that 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:36.240 they they told him what. 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:40.440 Happened they told him what, happened and. 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:45.680 Essentially that was what, happened like you did this and 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:46.080 this and. 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.240 This, yes That david hired and to do. 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:53.920 It and he said it actually started in the car 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:55.000 ride when they picked him. 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:57.840 Up they're in the car with him telling, Him oh, 0:07:57.920 --> 0:07:59.920 Yeah David thorn told. 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:02.080 Us, guilder we've heard this. 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:05.840 Before joe testified at, trial saying they fed him the. 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:09.840 STORY i asked about his best, Friend Sam. Peg did 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.080 he say he Told sam that he Killed? 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:15.119 Yvonne did he say he Told Sam? 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:21.120 Peg he says that he didn't tell her that. 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:28.160 And he does not remember ever telling her, that says 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:29.240 he didn't the shrade. 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:32.480 Knife whose knife is? That how is it? 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:36.000 There there's he has no. Recollection he, SAID i had 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:38.559 plenty of. KNIVES i didn't buy a knife a K 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:39.080 mark that. 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:43.120 Day but the cops story is That joe took them 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:46.160 to find the knife that they claim was the murder. 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:50.440 Weapon but he says specifically that it was a police 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:53.240 that took him to where that knife. 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.120 Was going to be So rose And. 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:58.720 Chris did he see, Them, Yes. 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:04.000 Yes he did see them the night of That wednesday. 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:08.760 NIGHT i saw them at the, mall bumped into, them 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:13.040 says the conversation was, casual that he did not give 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:17.320 any statements about he was there to kill, somebody and in, 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:22.600 fact he you, know he specifically, Said i'm not a stupid. 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:25.120 Guy if IF i was there to kill, Somebody i'm 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:27.959 not going to tell two people That i'm there to 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:29.199 kill somebody and then go kill. 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:36.000 Them did he know if On, Yes so he liked 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:37.400 this question of had he been? 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:38.160 There did he know? 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:42.360 Her, yes he had been to her house multiple. 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:47.960 TIMES a question is Did joe say he did? 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:52.319 This, No joe said he absolutely did not do. This 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:58.040 so he adamantly maintains his innocence that he did not kill. 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.400 Avonline Did david do? 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:05.280 This no, Indication, yeah no indication That david did. This 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.040 he believes That david didn't do. 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:11.199 It he told us that over and over That david 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:13.800 didn't have anything to do with. It he didn't have 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:14.520 anything to do with. 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:20.240 It so you found him to be, Honest, yeah or 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:21.400 at LEAST. 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:24.520 I, MEAN i, mean when he tells YOU i didn't do. 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:27.480 This do you believe? Him do you believe that he 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:28.640 believes he didn't do? 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:32.680 THIS i believe he believes he didn't do. This, YEAH 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:35.040 i absolutely believe he believes he didn't do. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:41.360 IT i know this sounds. Confusing someone either committed murder or. Didn't, Right, 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:44.480 well we know that people can lie to. Themselves they 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.679 can block stuff, out they can convince themselves that something 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:51.800 is the, truth even if it objectively. Isn't and they 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:56.160 Said joe seemed believable when he said he was, innocent 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.480 and for whatever is, worth they didn't since. 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:02.800 He was lying To AND i asked WHAT i thought 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:04.800 was a simple, question. 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:10.679 Do we have a timeline for? Him what is his? 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:15.720 Story we don't have the timeline that we would like 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:20.120 to have as far as the events of that. Night 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:25.320 is that what we're, Asking, Well i'll let you take. 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:32.079 It you, know there's just there's a version of events 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:36.840 that he's sticking. To, Yes so to answer your, question, 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.080 yes there is a version of events that he's sticking. 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:42.480 To now the follow up question is what's that version of? 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:48.360 Events and this is Where joe's story gets even more 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:54.160 complicated than we ever. Imagined remember the coroner couldn't pinpoint 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.480 the exact time of. Death he gave a twelve hour 0:11:56.559 --> 0:12:00.720 window that started at seven pm the night of the thirty. 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:04.600 First joe tells them That march thirty, first between three 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.200 to two five, pm he got dropped off at the 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:11.520 mall and walked To yvonne's to proposition her for. Sex, 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:14.560 now he, said in one of these, versions when he got, 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:18.320 there she was. Dead this, time he. Said when he got, 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:22.000 there he showed her a one hundred dollars bill and 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:24.880 told her he had a room at The Comfort. Inn 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:29.040 yvonne said she'd come by, later So joe. Left when 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:31.000 he got back to the, mall that's when he Saw 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.000 rose And. Chris and, Then joe, says the next thing he, 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:37.200 remembers he's in the. Shower in the shower the next, 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:40.920 Morning april, first he says he has no idea what 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.360 happened after he Saw rose And. 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:47.439 Chris do you believe him that he can't? Remember do 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:48.760 you think he's? Lying do you know? 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:53.960 WHAT i think he really doesn't. KNOW i think he 0:12:54.040 --> 0:13:00.360 really doesn't. Remember, now has he suppressed that subcosts or? 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:01.760 Cautiously quite? 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:07.439 Possibly this was just incredible to. Me maybe after all these. 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.520 Years the reason he has told so many different stories 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.160 is because he just can't. Remember maybe he thought no 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.760 one would believe him if he said he had amnesia 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:24.160 for fourteen. Hours i'm more confused than. Ever we continued 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:28.680 to work through. Scenarios was there, THIS. 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:35.320 I have someone coming, Over i'll meet you. Later, yeah, 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:37.280 yeah so that person could have killed? 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:41.600 Her could Have who was that? Person? 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.680 Well, well he even said IF i knew, THAT i 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:46.160 wouldn't still be sitting here right. 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.480 Now, yeah so. 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:53.680 She's according to, him he went there. 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:57.760 Proposition she, Said, OKAY i will meet you at the. 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:04.200 HOTEL i got someone coming over. Now and he goes 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.160 back to the hotel and SEES Rogi. 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.319 Chrichton that's. It joe says. 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.720 He doesn't know who the supposed visitor. 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.320 Was but did he seem frustrated or did it seem 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:15.600 like a convenient lapse? 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.720 In, No, oh he's, frustrated but it doesn't seem like 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:20.960 he was he was using that to his Convenient BUT 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:24.120 i really think he struggles to find what's true what's. 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:27.640 Not they said they Felt joe was trying desperately to 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.360 help them figure out what was going. On they felt 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:34.080 he recognized this is the first, time not Just david 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.440 would be getting a fair, shot and that meant maybe 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:38.720 it was his turn. 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:42.640 Too did he think it was weird the next morning 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:43.600 that he doesn't remember. 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:48.680 Anything, well, yes he thinks it's. WEIRD i, mean and 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:50.440 he just, said he, SAID i Don't. 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.040 I'm not trying to get dick too far out, there 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.240 BUT i almost wonder if somebody drugged me AND i 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:54.720 DID i know. 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:59.800 IT i felt like he really wanted to genuinely give 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:00.240 a his. 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:02.440 Best. Yeah, YEAH i think so. 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:07.320 Too it's a lot of that was he wanted to 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:09.200 impress us because he wants us to fight for. 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:13.040 It so if this is true That joe was at the, 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:15.240 house that's going to be really hard to get. 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:20.240 Around and that leads us to the possibility That joe 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:21.680 did do. 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:31.720 It what are the chances this kind man snaps Because 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:33.560 yvonne just doesn't want to have sex with. 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:40.280 HIM i don't know. What, NO i, mean that's one 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:41.800 of the possibilities that we. 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:45.360 Have to partamions like. THAT i feel like that's definitely. 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:51.400 Possible he goes to The trump to get this. Room 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:55.440 his impression is she's. Easy he's finally gonna get him 0:15:55.480 --> 0:16:01.520 some she doesn't, Show she doesn't. 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:03.000 Show he sits there in fucking. 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.720 Fumes here he is in a hotel room by, himself 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:08.040 down to his last hundred. 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.960 Bucks he doesn't seemed like a. Fumor we've never heard 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:11.560 of him getting. 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:17.760 That no, Ye so he either goes back down there 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:20.520 to confront her about not showing, up. 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:26.800 Hilts, her or goes back down there to confront her 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:30.120 about not showing up and finds her dead bottom. 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:34.480 Or both could be out in thee and wakes up 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:34.720 in the. 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.000 Shower the blackout is so. 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:41.040 Confusing maybe he really did walk in on her dead 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:42.040 and blacked it. 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:44.360 Out that's just gone in his bod. 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:49.680 And he's either intensely pocketed and never let it, out 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:55.120 or subconsciously it is just so. Buried he's not going 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:58.080 to go. There he's not going to retreat. It it's 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:02.600 no desire. To SO i think maybe in his mind he's. 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.480 Afraid maybe he has to be wondering DID i kill? 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:09.440 Him and while we were, processing there was something strange 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.399 that stuck out To john And danny in the four 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:16.960 hours they were With joe the, timeline he said he 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:20.879 was At elon's between three and, Five but we know 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.879 for a Fact joe was at The enox at five 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:29.760 pm With david and The lion The. Enochs those are 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.560 the parents Of joe's friend who'd taken him in for 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:36.760 a short, time And Brent enoch testified that he Took 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.520 joe to do a job and dropped him off at 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:45.880 the mall at eight p. M this was testified to at. Trial, Joe, 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:50.879 david and The enochs all agreed at trial that's where 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:56.639 everyone was at five. Pm so why Is joe making 0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:01.439 something up that is so obviously not corroborated? 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.320 Either do we. 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:12.080 Have next steps right? 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:13.240 Now how are you? 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:14.199 Feeling what are you? 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:21.800 Thinking, well that's That's it's a. LOT i mean these 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:25.840 if it was if it was, easy. 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:28.760 We would all fly in with our camera crew and 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:31.520 do a three day investigation and talk to four. People 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:33.480 we talked to eight people today And i'll work till 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.560 midnight or one o'clock and then we have to decompress 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.600 and revisit all the bits of information and say how 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:45.840 does this puzzle fit? Together and it's a lot because 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:53.159 the memories you, Know, joe let us know he, Ah 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:55.840 and that's the challenge on how we proceed is because 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.080 there are things That joe just does not. 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:00.960 Remember is bad as he wants. 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:06.200 To he goes to bed every night with the full 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:11.360 recognition That Yvonne lane is her death is the reason 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.879 that he's sleeping in that. Bomb and in the, morning 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:18.560 each morning when he wakes, up he has still full 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:23.000 recognition That Ivon, lane her murder is the reason he's 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:23.800 waking up in The. 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:27.720 Yeah even if he did not do it, right her 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:30.800 death is what led to him being in. 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:36.760 There so, dreams the, visions the, hopes the reliving old, 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:43.120 memories reminiscing whatever it may, be the autopsy, photos the, 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:49.480 trial the civil, trial the reporters and, investigators the advocates For, 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:53.840 david everything that he's. Experienced it's very hard for him 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:55.400 to remember what's real and what's. 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:57.920 NOT i can't imagine yeah That. 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.600 So maybe he's just making up the blackout so he 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:06.399 doesn't have to answer any questions about what happened between 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:11.080 him And. David maybe he's banking ON dna to point 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.200 to someone, else and if it, Doesn't joe can always, say, 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:14.960 WELL i told. 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:17.080 YOU i was there that night and was just. Confused 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:19.159 maybe they did do it. 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:25.040 Together after all fourteen hour amnesia is quite. Convenient and 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.040 Then john finally says. 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:34.080 IT i, mean If i'm sitting here right, NOW i 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:35.240 think That joe Had. 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:40.359 YEAH i think it's tough just to get the words, 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:43.119 out isn't it just to say what we know to be, 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:43.919 true what we? 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:48.159 Believe is very plas about, That, yeah it's, true what 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:48.760 the fuck is? 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:53.520 True probably after processing in the, Car john admits he 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:57.280 Believes joe was, involved even though the writing is on the. 0:20:57.280 --> 0:21:00.320 WALL i just wasn't ready to admit. 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.080 IT i couldn't get past that there could have been 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:05.720 someone else, there that someone else could have killed. 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:10.199 Her she definitely had enough traffic at that. Place this 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:12.000 is to have been a house where that kind of 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:18.560 event may have. Happened that's, Right but god dang fatality of, 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:25.840 yes Right, Sam sam's, statement christ And rose's Statement chris 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:28.920 IS i Mean joe turn left left? 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:32.439 LEFT i, mean we we all agree that this is 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:37.840 a violent, scene. 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:37.720 Like even in a. 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:39.480 BLACKOUT i don't know If joe had that. 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:40.880 RAGE i have no. 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:43.000 IDEA i, mean that's WHAT i don't. 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:45.800 Know AND i would love an expert to tell me 0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:50.520 if they've ever seen. That, yeah like rage like that 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:52.159 come out in a. 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:57.200 Blackout, yeah good. 0:21:57.200 --> 0:21:58.880 BOY i, mean what's the old. 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:02.399 SAYING i, mean this isn't clinical, blackout But i'm seeing. 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:05.280 Red you're so damn mad that you can't even you 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:06.919 just can see. Red you know you. 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:09.280 Can't and so let's Say joe was. 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:13.359 Involved do you believe him when he Says david's not? 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:21.320 Involved that's. Tough that's, tough you. 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:23.639 KNOW i, mean there's there's, listen there's a lot of 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:30.880 scenarios that are possible right. Now, YES i believe, them 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:34.840 but there's still some things that some questions that need 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:35.040 to be. 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:37.560 Answered you brought up, earlier. 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:41.800 You, KNOW i go back to and that's just a 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:44.800 scenario that we have to consider at this, point OR i. 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:48.920 Do AND i still looking back At, sam found her 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:51.920 to be pretty damn credible last. 0:22:51.960 --> 0:22:59.639 Night it was just all so much to take in 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:03.760 going into this investigation THINKING i would find one thing 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:07.640 and having the facts start to lay out something. Different 0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:13.399 If joe was, involved it really raises the question Was david. 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:18.280 Too i've spent two years trying to figure that, out 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:22.520 expecting the answers to be, No David thorne was, innocent 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:27.600 but laying out the facts we've, gathered. Reconciling what they 0:23:27.640 --> 0:23:30.440 all point to overwhelmed. 0:23:30.520 --> 0:23:33.159 ME i don't, KNOW i feel LIKE i got like, 0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:37.560 UP i feel LIKE i that. 0:23:37.720 --> 0:23:39.840 EMOTIONAL i don't, Know i'd feel really. 0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:44.720 Confused this is. 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:48.840 An emotional word dealing with people's, lives really. 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:54.960