1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: Thing from My Heart Radio. It's summer, and that means 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: it's time for our tradition that Here's the Thing where 4 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: the staff share their favorite episodes from our archives in 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: our Summer Staff Picks series. My pick is Judith Vecchioni enjoy. 6 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: In the nineteen sixties, which was a convulsive period in 7 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: American history, one major story seemed to play on and 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: on with no end in sight, the War in Vietnam. 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: When that war officially ended in nineteen seventy five, journalists, artists, 10 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: and public broadcasting began to conduct the autopsy. The result 11 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: produced films like nineteen seventy eight's Coming Home, nineteen seventy 12 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: nine Apocalypse Now, and a PBS series first broadcast in 13 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:03,279 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three via KNAM, a television history. Over the 14 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: course of thirteen hours, the program dug deep into the background, 15 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: cost and toll taken on the principal figures involved in 16 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: the war. 17 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 2: Thirty years after the first American died in Vietnam, the 18 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,559 Speaker 2: last Americans were leaving, waiting on the US embassy roof 19 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 2: to be flown to safety. The long war was ending 20 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 2: in the defeat of the South Vietnamese state that America 21 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 2: had supported for two decades. What kind of peace finally 22 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 2: was at hand? What would be the meaning of peace? 23 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 1: My guest today is Judith VECCHIONI, an Emmy and Peabody 24 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: winning producer of that series. Vecchione has worked in documentary 25 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: programming with Boston based PBS station WGBH since the seventies 26 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: and has been an executive producer there for twenty three years. 27 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: Her career has encompassed programs like Frontline and American Experience, 28 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: documentary films like Blood, Sugar Rising, and the Peabody winning 29 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: doc series Eyes on the Prize. I wanted to know 30 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: what Veccione's upbringing was like and how her home environment 31 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: influenced her career path. 32 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 3: I grew up in a politically very aware household. My 33 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 3: father read the newspaper from cover to cover, The New 34 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 3: York Times cover to cover every day, and we talked 35 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 3: about what was going on, and so the big issues 36 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 3: of the day's civil rights the Vietnam War were live 37 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 3: topics in my family. My parents worked with civil rights 38 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 3: organizations making sure our community was not dismantling the housing 39 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 3: discrimination in our suburban community. What area was this in 40 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 3: south shore of Long Island? 41 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: Where what time? I'm from Massapequa, I'm from Merrick, So 42 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: you were in the south shore of the island. Was 43 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: your dad? Was you a writer? 44 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 3: He should have been, but he did not end up 45 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 3: doing that. He should have been, he should have been 46 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 3: an academic. Actually, I think the politics of the day 47 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 3: for people who were very progressive made that hard. And 48 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 3: my mother was a teacher, was a high school math 49 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 3: teacher who I had for math actually, and luckily it's 50 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 3: a subject where you get the answers right, you get 51 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 3: them wrong, and so there's no favoriteism. Nobody ever got 52 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 3: worried about whether mom was being nice to me, and 53 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 3: half the class called her mom anyway. 54 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: So when you leave, you go off to Yale, and 55 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: as you head off to New Haven, was there a plan? 56 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: Was there something you wanted to study? And what was that? 57 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 3: Well, the first thing is that I'm in the first 58 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 3: class of women at Yale, the first matriculating class, So 59 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 3: I don't know that I knew what I was going 60 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 3: to study at that time. I was interested in languages. 61 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 3: I was interested in history, and I ended up being 62 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 3: a linguist major, which probably wasn't the most useful thing 63 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 3: to study. But it's such a rich environment. You know, 64 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 3: in these big universities you get great education. I'm not 65 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 3: sure I took full advantage of it. It was the 66 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 3: middle of the Vietnam War. There was a lot going on, 67 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 3: and Yale was very unprepared for us, for the women. 68 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 3: How so, well they fifty years later, this is like 69 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 3: five years ago, they invited the first women back. So 70 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 3: that's my class, plus the two transferred classes. And they 71 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 3: admitted that they just did it in a hurry to 72 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 3: beat Princeton to co education. And I felt a lot 73 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 3: better once they said, yea, we really didn't think about 74 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 3: anything except well, we'll paint some bathrooms for you or something. 75 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 3: But there were no you have to think about when 76 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 3: you arrive in an environment like that a university, you 77 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 3: expect the upper class people to gui you, to help you. 78 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 3: You expect the teachers to know where to draw. They 79 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 3: didn't know what did. Nobody knew what to do. All 80 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 3: the upper class women were as new as we were. 81 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 3: It was a real pioneering experience. 82 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: Is sixty nine. 83 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 3: We arrived in sixty nine and that. 84 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: Class were you as incoming freshmen and people who had 85 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: transferred who were upper class people as well, right transfer 86 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: as well. 87 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 3: So graduating classes of seventy three, minds seventy two and 88 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 3: seventy one. But they came from you know, Vassar, and 89 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 3: from NYU and wherever. They didn't know Yale, They didn't 90 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 3: know the professors. Nobody could say to you those key 91 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 3: things of don't take this class, take that one. You 92 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 3: know this, If you got a choice of teaching assistants, 93 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 3: go with this one. It was, as I say, a 94 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 3: tremendously rich environment. There was more than enough for anybody. 95 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 3: But I know that the later classes had it easier 96 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 3: than we did. 97 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: When you leave Yale with a linguistic stigre, what's the 98 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: plan then? Was you you had never no filmmaking? Had 99 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: you done a minor in film? No? 100 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 3: By that point I did have a plan though, Okay, 101 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 3: which is my last semester. I got out in seven 102 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 3: semesters instead of eight semesters, in part because I always 103 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 3: had siblings in school. It was in college, so it 104 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 3: was it was expensive for my family, even with scholarships 105 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 3: and things. And my last semester I discovered I had 106 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 3: extra credits that nobody had mentioned to me and I 107 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 3: could take something fun instead of all my major classes. 108 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 3: And I said, I think I'll take this class in video. 109 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 3: What the heck in the Art and architecture building. And 110 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 3: it got there and they had cameras the size of refrigerators, right, 111 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 3: giant cameras. It was two inch videotape that you were 112 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 3: recording on basically couldn't edit. And we took pictures of 113 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 3: each other that that first day, you know, videos of 114 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 3: each other. And I had two enormous light bulb moments, 115 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 3: light bulbul over the head moments where I said I 116 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 3: need to do this, this is what I should be doing. 117 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 3: I had been doing radio, rock and roll, news radio, 118 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 3: that sort of thing at WYBC, the GBH community station. 119 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 3: I covered the panther trials and then the riots around 120 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 3: that because wre were those in new Haven. New Haven 121 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 3: had a black panther trial. Yeah, there was an event 122 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 3: and they came and then there was a trial after 123 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 3: that event on May Day. There was an event, But. 124 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: What about it? Did you have the light bulb moment? 125 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: Meaning when you're there. We used to have a joke 126 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: we did a TV show where the guy in the 127 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: period was period at television and he's drunk or he's 128 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: halluciny or something, and he turns to the producers into 129 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: producer and says, why are those people pointing those ovens 130 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: at me? Meaning the cameras? They were so gigantic? But 131 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: what instide when you're inside that environment? Because you go 132 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: on to go ahead and have this obviously amazing career. 133 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: What was the light bulb moment? What was attractive? 134 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 3: I think it was telling stories that were real and 135 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 3: that mattered to people, that these were important things that 136 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 3: were happening around us, and there were ways of telling 137 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 3: those stories that had impact and that were creatively satisfying. 138 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 3: I mean I had done art before, painting and so forth, 139 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 3: and it just it fed those same brain cells for me, 140 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 3: that idea and it had impact. It had reasons, so 141 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 3: reasons to do it that were not just entertainment or 142 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 3: selling toothpaste, which is why, of course I went for 143 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 3: public television, not to commercial television. 144 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: So that was the beachhead was public television and SOLF. 145 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 1: That's where you started. 146 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 3: Absolutely. I started at GBH and I stayed there for 147 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 3: almost my entire career. I mean I left once or twice, 148 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 3: but came back because public media is where you do documentaries. 149 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 3: I mean, now there's HBO, but HBO does what five 150 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 3: ten documentaries a year. They're wonderful, but that's not what 151 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 3: they really do, whereas Frontline does forty a year, and 152 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 3: American Experience does another you know, ten or fifteen. I 153 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 3: don't know what they do. Inv POV is still on 154 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 3: independent lens. Through GBH. I've worked with the POV people, 155 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 3: I've worked with the Independent lens people, so those are 156 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 3: the independent filmmakers, which is where I am now mostly focused. 157 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 3: But I've also worked with Frontline, Nova, American Experience and 158 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 3: all the background ones, and that brings in an enormous 159 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 3: cadre of incredibly talented people that you get to learn from. 160 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 3: I can't tell you the number of people who I've gone, Oh, Now, 161 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 3: I understand why we do these things this way. And 162 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 3: I also have a I'm old enough that my career 163 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 3: spans from film to digital. So when we start, Vietnam 164 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 3: was shot on film, My fire film was shot on film, 165 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 3: and that's way later, so you're kind of in the 166 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 3: midst of really smart, dedicated people. 167 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: Now when you arrive at GBH, the CPB is formed 168 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: in sixty seven and before you have a government centralized 169 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: funding mechanism for public broadcasting and in this case obviously 170 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: a public TV. I'm wondering if they were off on 171 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: their own doing their own thing and raising the money. 172 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 3: I don't think so. I think the system was formulated 173 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 3: after the Carnegie Commission report that they said, we need 174 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 3: to have MINO. 175 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: That's right. 176 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 3: We need to have a federally supported system that could 177 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 3: be independent and could be therefore able to cover topics 178 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 3: that commercial stations needing to fill a bottom line and 179 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 3: pay stockholders and so forth that they couldn't do. 180 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: So when you show up at GBH, maybe everything is 181 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 1: concretizing at the same time and congealing at the same time. 182 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: What was the terrain, like, you're a woman, Yes, you 183 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: have a degree from Yale, so that's a good thing. 184 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: Did you get in there and roll up your sieves 185 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: and start working or were you making coffee for a 186 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: year or what happened? 187 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 3: At first? I was a part time vacation replacement secretary 188 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 3: and I worked in the design department, which, as I remember, 189 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 3: it was pretty self contained and had a photographer and 190 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 3: a photography studio. And this is pre digital. There's not 191 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 3: even three quarter inch tapes, so you know, it's mostly 192 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 3: serving news and local very labor intensive, very labor intensive, 193 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 3: and I didn't have a lot to do except observe, 194 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 3: learn and watch the Watergate hearings. It's a good summer 195 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 3: to be employed there. And then I worked for the 196 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 3: finance department. And then I saw some people. I continued 197 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 3: to do these fill in replacement stuff and I saw 198 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 3: these people in the cafeteria waving their fingers about and 199 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 3: I looked at them and I said, what are you doing? 200 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 3: And they said, we're learning sign language because we're going 201 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 3: to start the first captioning for the deaf and we 202 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 3: need to know how to speak to our deaf employees. 203 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 3: And I said, languages, linguistics. I'm interested in this. And 204 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 3: they said, well, you know, we meet when we can. 205 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 3: And I said, you know, i'm a secretary in the 206 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 3: finance department or something. They'll let me take lunch at 207 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 3: three if that's when you do it. They don't care 208 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 3: when I take lunch. And I went in and I 209 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 3: learned to sign, not fluently, but enough. And when they 210 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 3: had trouble recruiting someone for a deaf person, they intended 211 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 3: to have a certain number of people one of whom 212 00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 3: was deaf doing this job, and it took them along 213 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 3: than anticipated to get the first deaf person to pay 214 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 3: attention because it was it was untried captioning. So they 215 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 3: hired me as the non deaf replacement for the deaf people, 216 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 3: and that was again an excellent learning process. It was 217 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 3: writing because you were writing, you were taking the ABC 218 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 3: Evening news and writing it into caption language and putting 219 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 3: it in computers. Early computers again, the size of refrigerators 220 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 3: extremely slow, and when things went wrong and the machines 221 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 3: broke down, we had a sign language interpreter who'd show 222 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 3: up in the little corner of the screen and do it. 223 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: And between when you start these beginnings at GBH and 224 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: when you become part of your first project that you're 225 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: on the crew, you're helping to write, you're helping to 226 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: pro do whatever your contribution. I'm assuming you didn't direct 227 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: right out of the gate, right, so you get what's 228 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: the first filmed project? Or I guess so it's all 229 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: filmed back then, what's the first filmed project you work on? 230 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 3: What year was that I went over to Nova from captioning, 231 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,079 Speaker 3: and I would say we be like seventy six that. 232 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: I went I think three years and you were Nova 233 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: doing what. 234 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 3: I was a production assistant, mostly doing post, so learning 235 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 3: how you mix in film and how you taking care 236 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 3: of bringing in narrators. 237 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: And contracting it together. 238 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 3: So forth you putting it together started producing promos a 239 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 3: very good learning experience. If you've got to tell people 240 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 3: why they should watch this film on wolves in thirty seconds, 241 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 3: what are you going to put up there? I had 242 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 3: very good mentors there, some of whom came over from 243 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 3: the BBC because they had been doing the Horizon Science series, 244 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 3: which was an inspiration for Nova. Nova was the first 245 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 3: big national project that GBH did, and it was clear 246 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 3: at that point that the person who was running national 247 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 3: Productions was interested in expanding the national series the documentary series, 248 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 3: and so Nova and then World, which was the predecessor 249 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 3: to Frontline, and then American Experience all came in under 250 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 3: that five or ten year period. 251 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: So you're doing post and it seems like, and I 252 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: don't want to be too polite or whatever, but it 253 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: seems like, did you feel that everywhere you when people 254 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: saw that you had it in terms of the capacity 255 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: to do this work Because the business relies on mentoring 256 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: the business relies on someone who's in a more powerful 257 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: position than you are, turning to you and going, let's go. 258 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: You're going to come with us. We're going to go 259 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: on the shoot together. Right, what's the first film you make? 260 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: You go and shoot? 261 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 3: I was a PA at Nova in post production and 262 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 3: they would occasionally need somebody to go out in a 263 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 3: field on a production for them. And there was a 264 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 3: film that was done on very early genetic engineering, and 265 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 3: I became the PA on that one, and I traveled 266 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 3: with the two producers. This was, you know, back in 267 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 3: the day when crews were bigger. You had generally a 268 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 3: producer and associate producer and a production assistant, plus your 269 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 3: three person camera sound team going out. Nowadays it would 270 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 3: be maybe two people with the equipment that we have 271 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 3: and the ability to do things remotely. So that was 272 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 3: one of the early ones, the genetic engineering film. 273 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: Were most of the people involved in that project and 274 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: the early projects you became a part of after that, 275 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: was it mostly men? 276 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 3: Mostly? Yes, mostly, But actually on that film there were 277 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 3: co producers and it was a man and a woman, 278 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 3: and the woman actually eventually became Nova's executive producer, Paula Apsel, 279 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 3: but GPH, I thought was always pretty friendly to women. 280 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 3: There weren't as many women at the very top levels 281 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 3: for a while. Now there are, and in fact GBH 282 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 3: now has its first woman CEO as of last year. 283 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 3: And I would say it's more women than men in 284 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 3: production at GBH. I'm not sure that's true across the 285 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 3: system for public broadcasting, and it's certainly I don't think 286 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 3: I'm not part of the larger commercial world. It's not true. 287 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 3: It's certainly true in the independent world that it doesn't 288 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 3: matter whether you're not really being downgraded. 289 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: Yes or No is the first film you make? Correct? 290 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, that might have been. And that's for World, the 291 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 3: predecessor for Frontline. And I did that one in Canada 292 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 3: and I'm the producer. I'm not the director on that. 293 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 3: The director is Michael Rubo. 294 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: What was the topic of Yes or No? What was 295 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: it about? 296 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 3: This was in the period when Quebec was looking to 297 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 3: secede from Canada. Yes, and Michael Rubau knew this impersonator 298 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 3: an impressionist named Jean Quie Moreau and Janui did impressions 299 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 3: of Ronie Levex, the premiere of Quebec, who was the 300 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 3: great driver for secession and Jeanquie Moreo was so well 301 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 3: known in French Canada. This is not an experience I 302 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 3: had had before. You'd walk through the streets of Montreal 303 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 3: or wherever, and little girls would faint in front of you. 304 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's Janquie Moreau. He's so well known, 305 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 3: he's so wonderful. And Jean Gui decided he would take 306 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 3: his show to Toronto to see if it would play there. 307 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 3: So it was about the difference between French and English 308 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 3: Canada told through this story of Shuanghi's journey. 309 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: I've got to get a copy of that. That sounds amazing, 310 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: documentary producer Judith ACCIONI. If you enjoy conversations with brilliant 311 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: documentary filmmakers, be sure to check out my episode with 312 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: director and producer Rory Kennedy. 313 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 4: I love Boeing and what Boeing stood for in this country, 314 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 4: and we really celebrate that in the film because it's 315 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 4: been an extraordinary company for decades. You know, it helped 316 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 4: us get out of World War two, it helped get 317 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 4: us to the moon with my uncle Jack, and for 318 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 4: many decades, Boeing did one thing, which was to say 319 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 4: we're going to prioritize excellence and safety, and the McDonald 320 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 4: douglas people were put in charge, and they had a 321 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 4: very different business model, which was very Wall Street focused. 322 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with Rory Kennedy, go 323 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, Judith 324 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: Vecchioni shares the weight of responsibility she felt bringing the 325 00:19:48,160 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: series Vietnam A Television History to the American public. I'm 326 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's the Thing. 327 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 1: Documentary producer Judith Veccioni can spend years behind the scenes 328 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: making a series before it sees the light of day. 329 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,360 Speaker 1: Vietnam A Television History was no exception. It was an 330 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:22,479 Speaker 1: incredible undertaking, with its thirteen episodes being produced over six years. 331 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 3: I think it was two years of fundraising and four 332 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:30,479 Speaker 3: years of production. Yeah, and it was in part it 333 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 3: took so long because we were making up a format 334 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 3: for America. Nobody had ever done this kind of large, 335 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 3: multi part series right where the stories fed to each other. 336 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 3: You could watch them separately, but if you really want 337 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 3: to understand it, you watched all of them roughly the 338 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 3: order that they were presented. So we were inventing that, 339 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 3: and one of the reasons we had a British producer, 340 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 3: Martin Smith. Martin Smith came because he had worked at 341 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 3: World at War and that was the only really big 342 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 3: linked series that had been done before that. So he 343 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 3: came over and was one of our producers and was 344 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 3: tremendously helpful in talking about how do you divide up 345 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 3: stories that are happening virtually simultaneously, how do you pick 346 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 3: away to do that, and things that we did for 347 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 3: Vietnam I brought with me when we went to Eyes 348 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 3: on the prize not to jump too far ahead, and 349 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 3: other people used for other linked series. An example is school. 350 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 3: At the beginning of each of these projects, we sat 351 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 3: down all the production staff and went to school together. 352 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 3: We had lecturers, We watched films, we discussed the stories. 353 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 3: We talked about what's a source and what's not a source. 354 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 3: It was a combination of film school and journalism, and 355 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 3: it meant that what we did was as unimpeachable as 356 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 3: we could possibly make it. And for Vietnam that was 357 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 3: since we were working within the decade of the Fall 358 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 3: of Saigon. 359 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 1: Vietnama television history. I saw that in its original production, 360 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 1: how do you feel and this goes throughout your career. 361 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: Eventually we get to Eyes on the Prize. I mean 362 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: you do two back to back. I mean you climb 363 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: with your compatriots, You climb big mountains that set the 364 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: tone for public television for decades to come. I mean, 365 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: we're gonna get into Eyes of the Prize in a minute. 366 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 1: But for me, when I watched Vietnama television history, I go, 367 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: this is it, this is what happened for you? Did 368 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: you sense did you realize at the time, because you 369 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: seem like such an incredibly bright and thoughtful person that 370 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: you're sitting there going, you know, I'm carving history in 371 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 1: stone here? Did you feel that sense of responsibility when 372 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: you were doing this show? 373 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 3: We did, and we didn't know how people would react. 374 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 3: I know that every single person we called up to 375 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 3: interview to bring on board, whether they were American or 376 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 3: Vietnamese or whatever they were, every single person said, which 377 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 3: side were you on? That was their first question. They 378 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,479 Speaker 3: wanted to know. Were we going to say it was 379 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 3: American imperialism? Where were we going to say America was 380 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 3: saving democracy? Where were going to Where were we going 381 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 3: to be? And we we said and I think we 382 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 3: worked very, very hard. It's not just fair but balanced 383 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 3: to say there are multiple sides to this story. There's 384 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 3: the South Vietnamese, there's the North Vietnamese, there's the Viet 385 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:47,719 Speaker 3: Min viet Cong, there's the Yes, there's multiple and so 386 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 3: what we want to be doing is over and over 387 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 3: again showcasing the complexity of the history with as much 388 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 3: as possible, and it had to be very strong. Back up, 389 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 3: I'll tell you a story that we in the story 390 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 3: of d NBN Foo, we had a story of North 391 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 3: Vietnamese heroism, the legends they told about how hard that 392 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 3: victory was for them. We also had in that section 393 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 3: a story of heroism from the South Vietnamese and how 394 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 3: they marched into the battles singing the French national anthem 395 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 3: because they didn't have their own anthem yet. It was 396 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 3: too young a country. That kind of balancing, that constant balancing, 397 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 3: and the research to find and verify these was enormous. 398 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 3: I had a French speaking production assistant to make sure 399 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 3: that we were hitting the right records, not just the 400 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 3: American records, but the French records for my French based films. 401 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: Now I'm assuming that you know you might have worked 402 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: on other things, but Vietnam a television history and it's 403 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: a original release was in eighty three, and you're working 404 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: on Eyes on the Prize after that. In your career 405 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: at this point, are you commissioned, are you assigned? Or 406 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: do you pitch? How does Judith vic Joni get on board? 407 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 1: You know one of the most seminal public television productions in. 408 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 3: History, Well, Vietnam. I pitched myself to be part of it, 409 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 3: as I said to you an associate producer, I'll do that. 410 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 3: And then as I'd worked on the first I worked 411 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 3: on episodes three and twelve as an associate producer and 412 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 3: it became clear that I should do the first two programs, 413 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 3: and so they just said you want to do them, 414 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 3: and I said, yes, I will. For Eyes, it was 415 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 3: Henry Hampton's series. Henry Hampton was the visionary behind Eyes 416 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 3: on the Prize and he had been trying for years 417 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 3: and years to get funding. He tried several times, got started, 418 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 3: had to stop, and when he finally really got it 419 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 3: together to do it, he came and looked around the 420 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 3: Vietnam cadre to say, I need someone who has this 421 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 3: experience of making linked films, and I know he talked 422 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 3: to some of my colleagues and he said to me, 423 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 3: do you want this? And I said, exactly what I 424 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 3: had said about Vietnam. Yes, this is my story. I 425 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 3: want to be part of it. So I left GBH 426 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 3: to do Ice On the Prize was an independent production, 427 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 3: and I said to my boss at the time, can 428 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 3: I have a leave of absence? It'll be probably two years, 429 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 3: three years, I don't know, and he said, we don't 430 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 3: give long leaves of absence. I said, then I have. 431 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: To leave and who produce? And who produced that? Because 432 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 1: I'm assuming that, like I mean, in our podcast world, 433 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: there's a number of places to go and you know, 434 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: look for funding. GBH itself be easy where IRA is 435 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: and so forth. But I'm assuming that at this point 436 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: in the eighties GBH is like the mothership for this 437 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: kind of producing or were there other stations that were 438 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: doing more of this kind of production as well? 439 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 3: I think GBH was doing most of it. Other stations 440 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 3: like WNT were doing some. They did the Adams Chronicles. 441 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 3: What was that called the which was a fictionalization of 442 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 3: John and Abigail Adams, but a long piece. But the 443 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 3: documentaries were from GBH, but Henry Hampton, who was black 444 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 3: Side's founder and president, really wanted to do it independently. 445 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 3: It was a black owned company. He wanted to staff 446 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 3: it and run it, and he himself had been at SELMA, 447 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 3: so it was a very very important story to him 448 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 3: to tell. 449 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: And he got the money from where do you think. 450 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 3: The NH and CPB money but directly, and we were 451 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 3: running out of money all the way through it, and 452 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 3: at a certain point he got some company money from 453 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,959 Speaker 3: I think Lotus Incorporated came in and gave him and 454 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 3: that was how he made payroll that week. We were 455 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 3: not going to make payroll the independent world. I always say, 456 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 3: do you think you're the poorest of the poor when 457 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 3: you work for public television and then you go independent 458 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 3: for public television and you really know what poverty is. 459 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: Documentary producer Judith Vecchioni. If you're enjoying this conversation, tell 460 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: a friend and be sure to follow here's the thing 461 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. 462 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: When we come back, Judith Vecchioni shares her advice for 463 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: the next class of documentary filmmakers. I'm Alec Baldwin and 464 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 1: you're listening to here's the thing. In the nineteen eighties, 465 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: there were multiple high profile resignations from the board of 466 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: the Corporation for Public Broadcasting or CPB, which funds PBS. 467 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: It was a time of public disputes and allegations of 468 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: politicization attributed to the Reagan administration's multiple appointees. I wanted 469 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: to know if Veccione had any awareness of the tumult 470 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: happening at the top of the CPB. 471 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 3: I did not, and I think that's a testimony to 472 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 3: the firewall between content and fundraising that I wasn't doing 473 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 3: the fundraising at that point as a producer, as a 474 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 3: senior producer, I wasn't doing any of that. Henry did it, 475 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 3: Henry Ampton, for Eyes and for Vietnam, Richard Ellison had 476 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 3: done it. I wasn't a part of it. It was there, 477 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 3: It was certainly an issue, but it wasn't something I saw, 478 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 3: and GBH was very clear about we have to keep 479 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 3: a firewall going or else we're commercial station. Then you know, 480 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 3: we're just responding to different masters. I'm not saying it 481 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 3: wasn't true. I'm just saying I wasn't at that level. 482 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: So I worked very heavily in the nineth on campaign 483 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: finance reform Arizona main events where we raise money for 484 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: the Legal Defense Fund for those laws. And I worked 485 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: with a group of people who we solemnly believe, I mean, 486 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: without an ounce of hesitation, thought that the campaign finance 487 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: reform was the lynchpin of all the problems in this country, 488 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: you know, spending a speech, money a speech, and campaigns. 489 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: And we came up with all the cliches you here now, 490 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: which is will have money as speech and the person 491 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: with the most money speaks loudest. And I believe that 492 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: every single person in the United States Congress Democratic Republican, 493 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: and they might as well wear decals on them and 494 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: stickers on them like they're NASCAR race car drivers above 495 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: who's promoting them and owning them. You can't run for 496 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: office unless you get the money. Most of the people 497 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: who win, overwhelmingly, the overwhelming majority win who have the 498 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: most money. Campaign finance reform was really just the biggest problem. 499 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: So we go see Burt Newborn, He's from the Brennan Center, 500 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: the think Teket NYU Law School in Bert Newborn said, 501 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: when Brown versus the Board of Education comes he says, 502 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: they didn't wake up that morning and they had some 503 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: new information. He said, they knew the country was ready, 504 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: They knew the country was read, that the country needed this. 505 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: We had to go in this direction order for the 506 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: country to remain healthy and eyes on the prize comes 507 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,239 Speaker 1: and it's a huge success, huge one of the most 508 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: successful documentaries that I can recall. And did you feel 509 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: the same thing, which was that it was timing that 510 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: people were just ready to start to really do the 511 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: deep dive into the civil rights movement. 512 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 3: That and also the commitment to strong journalism made the 513 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 3: stories really forceful. I remember a screening that we had. 514 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,959 Speaker 3: We would have screenings of rough cuts with not just 515 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 3: ourselves the team, but with larger groups. And I remember, 516 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 3: you know this that when you're watching one of your 517 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 3: films with a group, you don't watch the film, you 518 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 3: watch the people watching. And I remember the hairs rising 519 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 3: on the back of my neck and saying, we got it, 520 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 3: we have this. This was the Emmett Till story in 521 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 3: episode one, it's are we speaking to the audience? Are 522 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 3: we driving new understanding? I am a firm believer that 523 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 3: journalists need to not enter into political discussions. I know 524 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 3: some journalists who don't vote because they don't believe they 525 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 3: can do that and still remain impartial. I'm not that 526 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 3: far alone, but I am very very careful about expressing 527 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 3: my let me admit, quite strong feelings, because I don't 528 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 3: see how I can be effective in my. 529 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: Job now with the time we have left. Of course, 530 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: your career spans many years, and now there are far 531 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: more women working in the documentary film world, and I'm wondering, 532 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: do you do any teaching? Are you do you teach? 533 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 3: I do a lot of mentoring. I don't teach, but 534 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 3: I do a lot of mentoring. For twelve years I 535 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 3: ran a project for PBS nationally called the Producer's Workshop 536 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 3: at WGBH, where for a week we would bring in 537 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 3: promising associate producers and local producers and run them through 538 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 3: a very tough boot camp, like ten twelve hour days 539 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 3: about how do you bring your projects up to the 540 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 3: national level. And we looked very much for women, for 541 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 3: people of color, for people from rural areas to bring 542 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 3: in new voices for public media. A lot of those 543 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 3: people have gone on and made wonderful, wonderful films, So 544 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 3: that's been a very important part of my job, and 545 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 3: I'm now working as senior editorial advisor for World Channel, which, 546 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 3: if viewers don't know, is part of the ps ecosystem. 547 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 3: The way PVS Kids is a part of it. This 548 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 3: is documentaries, short form and long form, digital and broadcast 549 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 3: and bringing in new voices to the system. So we 550 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 3: have a series called America Refrained, where the stories are 551 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 3: you haven't heard this that tells you something about the 552 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 3: town of Orangeburg, the town of Chicago, the farming communities 553 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 3: of wherever. We also have a series called Local USA, 554 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 3: which looks at really hyperlocal stories being told by the 555 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 3: people within them. So that new voices is an important 556 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:50,919 Speaker 3: part of what I'm doing now. 557 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:56,280 Speaker 1: Now, two quick things. I watched the diabetes blood Sugar 558 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: Rising and I have type two. I went back and 559 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: forth and had pre diabetes for a long time. When 560 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: I see this, and obviously there's no comparison in terms 561 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: of content with the Vietnam thing. But what was the reason? 562 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: Was this an assignment? Why did you do the diabetes Though? 563 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 3: I'm fascinated by stories that are at the edges of society. 564 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,320 Speaker 3: They are very very important to the communities that face 565 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,240 Speaker 3: these issues, but not necessarily to everyone. And I realized 566 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 3: that diabetes is a national emergency. If we hadn't just 567 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 3: had COVID, we would be calling diabetes a pandemic that 568 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 3: there were. It was a moment when things were starting 569 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 3: to shift. The first continuous glucose monitors were coming in, 570 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,879 Speaker 3: the first real fights over the cost of insulin. We're 571 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 3: gearing up, and that's just born fruit. You know, a 572 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 3: week before we're talking with the cap on insulin costs. 573 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 3: So it just seemed to me to be an important 574 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 3: story that wasn't being told and that we needed to 575 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 3: get out there. I have it in my family too. 576 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: Right, And some people have talked about, you know, putting 577 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: warnings on candy. You know that, you know, whatever that 578 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: might be. But like, excessive consumption of this product can 579 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 1: lead to certain health issues. I don't know what the 580 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 1: you know, what the answer to that is, but I 581 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 1: do realize it's like when you live inside the minefield 582 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: of diabetes, when you live inside the minefield of blood 583 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: sugar issues everywhere you go, you just can't believe it. 584 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I might have seen a beautiful 585 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,800 Speaker 1: woman years ago, when I was younger, I might have 586 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: said to myself, my God, look how beautiful that woman is. 587 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: Now I hold up a drink in my hand in 588 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: a deli and go, my god, this says eighty eight 589 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: grams of sugar in it. You know, the sugar content 590 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: of food has taken over my life. Last question, your 591 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: advice to newcomers, your advice to people who are coming. 592 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 3: In, Well, this is a little bit like yours and 593 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 3: a little bit different. When I book to young makers 594 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 3: who come to me with a brilliant idea, I say, 595 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 3: this is a brilliant idea, It probably shouldn't be your 596 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 3: first film. It should be your second film. Make something 597 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 3: first that you can learn and make mistakes on, and 598 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 3: then make the one that really matters. 599 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:21,280 Speaker 1: To you interesting. 600 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 3: I also say to people, don't reinvent the wheel if 601 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 3: you can work for someone. I worked for people like 602 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 3: David Fanning who started Frontline, and I worked for Paula Apsel, 603 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,760 Speaker 3: who ran Frontline. These are people who I learned from 604 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 3: by watching, by making my mistakes in front of them 605 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 3: instead of in front of an audience and letting them 606 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 3: say to me. I have an absolute memory of David 607 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 3: saying to me at one point, if you moved that 608 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 3: scene from here to there, what would happen, and I said, 609 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 3: oh my god, it open up so many possibilities if 610 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 3: I just I keep the scene, but I just move 611 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 3: it a little later in the film. And he had 612 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 3: that kind of knowledge that I could accumulate and not 613 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 3: have to make my mistakes and put the film out rolling. 614 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 3: So don't reinvent the wheel, learn from the people around you, 615 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 3: and go forward. 616 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: My thanks to Judith Vecchione. This episode was recorded at 617 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: CDM Studios in New York City. We're produced by Kathleen Russo, 618 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: Zach MacNeice, and Maureen Hoven. Our engineer is Frank Imperial. 619 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 1: Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. I'm Alec Baldwin. 620 00:38:43,640 --> 00:39:08,280 Speaker 1: Here's the thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio.