1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:08,559 Speaker 1: Al Zon Media. Hi, friends, and welcome to the show. 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: It's me James today and I'm very lucky to be 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: joined by Sam Hamilton, who is the senior litigation staff 4 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: attorney at Asian Americans Advancing Justice Atlanta. 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 2: Hi Sam, Hi James, Thanks for having me. 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for joining us. And we are gathered here 7 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: today to talk about the new proposals that DHS has 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: to detain people in literal warehouses. Right, if people aren't familiar, 9 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: maybe you could die out by explaining what those proposals 10 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: are and how they specifically relate to the areas where 11 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: you're organizing in Atlanta. 12 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 2: Sure. 13 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 3: So, around December of twenty twenty five, a journalist leaked 14 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 3: a list of about twenty different cities across the country 15 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 3: where where ICE was intending to open new detention facilities 16 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 3: in warehouses specifically. And this list contained the names of 17 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 3: the cities and the expected or projected occupancy of each 18 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 3: of these facilities. And so I live here in Atlanta, Georgia, 19 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 3: and there were two cities on that list with warehouses contemplated. 20 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:35,199 Speaker 3: One is located in the city of Flowery Branch, where 21 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 3: the warehouse there is intended to detain up to one thousand, 22 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 3: five hundred people, and the other is in the city 23 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 3: of Social Circle, Georgia, where ICE intends to use a 24 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 3: warehouse that is over one million square feet to detain 25 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 3: about eighty five hundred people that fast. 26 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: Like, I think that this would dwarf the capacity of 27 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: any like I'm trying to think of, there are maybe 28 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: prisons sort of bigger than that. 29 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 4: I don't know, but like in immigration terms, I don't 30 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 4: think there is anything. 31 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, so for the last four 32 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 3: years or so, I've worked I've worked on various different 33 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 3: shutdown ICE campaigns here in Georgia, and for the last 34 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 3: four years I've been working with the campaign to shut 35 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 3: down the Folkston Ice Processing Center, which is an ice 36 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 3: facility in South Georgia pretty close to Florida, but it's 37 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 3: about a five hour drive from Atlanta, and that ended. 38 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 2: Up expanding last summer. 39 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 3: But the number of beds at that facility was projected 40 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 3: to be around three thousand, and at the time that 41 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 3: was going to be the largest ice attention facility in 42 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 3: the country. So to jump from three thousand to eighty 43 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 3: five hundred is yeah, it's massive, obviously. 44 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 4: Yeah. 45 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: I mean people wanted like it's not fascism and left. 46 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: It comes from the Fascio Rain area of Italy. Right, 47 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: Otherwise it's like sparkling authoritarianism or whatever. But like unless 48 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: you're looking for like a gate with our Beckmark Fry 49 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: on it or whatever, like like these are concentration camps. 50 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: Like that, that is what this is. It was really 51 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: interesting in twenty twenty three we had out the outdoor 52 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: attention under the Biden administration, and like we didn't really 53 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: have much coverage in the US media when we were 54 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: participating in mutual aid there, but we'd had a lot 55 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: from non US media, like folks from Japan and Singapore 56 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: and Italy, and they just come and be like, oh, yeah, 57 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: it's a concentration camp. And then they'd write the story 58 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: and be like they're these a concentration camps. And I 59 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: think I would never have got that pasted an editor 60 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: in LA or New York. To them, it seems so 61 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: self evident. Now we're just doing it on an even 62 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: bigger scale. I guess it's it's terrible. It's this shit. 63 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: So I know you've been organizing in social circles specifically, 64 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: right or part of an organizing group, I should say, 65 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: that's been opposing this detention center. So I think it'd 66 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: be really instructive to people because either are all of 67 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: these are going to be all over the country, and 68 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: this won't be the only expansion of immigration detention we 69 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: see in the next few years, I imagine, given the 70 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: massive budget and the priority to the administration, can you 71 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: explain a little bit about like how that campaign got 72 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: started and then like the nuts and bolts of how 73 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: this is being opposed. 74 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, So before I get into that, I think providing 75 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 3: some context on who the Social Circle community is it 76 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 3: will be, you know, would be instructive. So it's a 77 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 3: pretty small it's a very small city. It's got a 78 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 3: population of about five thousand people, overwhelmingly Republican, overwhelmingly white, 79 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:48,679 Speaker 3: and pretty wealthy, Okay, And it's about an hour drive 80 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 3: outside of Atlanta. And in December of twenty twenty five, 81 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 3: a news article was published in The Washington Post announcing, 82 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 3: you know, the list of the twenty cities where these 83 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 3: warehouses would be would be popping up. And it was 84 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 3: that article that told the residents of Social Circle and 85 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 3: the elected officials of Social Circle for the first time 86 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 3: that this ice mega prison was coming to their community. 87 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 3: There was no notice to the city by ICE or 88 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 3: anyone in the federal government at all, certainly no opportunity 89 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 3: to respond, no opportunity for public input. 90 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 2: So they felt really blindsided. 91 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm not from this community, and you know, 92 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 3: I've I've met many of these people only for the 93 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 3: first time, you know, within the last couple of months. 94 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 3: But I think it would not be so far fetched 95 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 3: to say that some of these people feel, you know, 96 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 3: especially the ones who identify as Republicans or as you know, conservatives, 97 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 3: I think they feel really betrayed by you know, by 98 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 3: their government, by their party. 99 00:05:58,440 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 4: Yeah. 100 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 3: And so, you know, a lot of these people, I 101 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 3: mean I've just described the demographic. I think many of 102 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 3: them have never been involved in organizing of any kind before. 103 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 2: Some of them have, I think, but. 104 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 3: I think due to you know, their life circumstances, just 105 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 3: might not have found themselves in a place where they've 106 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 3: needed to organize for anything. So a bunch of these 107 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 3: residents got together and have been holding you know, in 108 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 3: person kind of town hall community meetings, and they held 109 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 3: one in January where they were about you know, I 110 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 3: think forty to fifty people in the room, and they 111 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 3: wanted to get together and you know, just have a 112 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 3: public discourse about what could be done. And I was 113 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 3: invited to this meeting because of my history of involvement 114 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 3: with shutdown campaigns here in Georgia. I got started with 115 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 3: shutdown campaigns in twenty when a nurse, a whistleblower who 116 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 3: worked at an immigration detention center here in Georgia called 117 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 3: the Irwin County Detention Center, alerted the public that there 118 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 3: was a doctor who was contracting with ICE who had been, 119 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 3: you know, providing medical services to women detained in this facility. Well, 120 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 3: he had actually been performing non consensual and medically unnecessary 121 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 3: medical and gynecological procedures on women in ICE detention. This, yeah, 122 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 3: and when these women spoke out about it to their 123 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 3: family members, to journalists, to their lawyers, to members of 124 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 3: Congress or staffers for members of Congress, they were retaliated 125 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 3: against by being swiftly deported and I'm talking put on 126 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 3: planes within hours of speaking to a congressional staffer. And 127 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 3: at the time, I was working at the University of 128 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 3: Georgia School of Laws Fort Amendment Clinic, where we were 129 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 3: providing you know, free legal service is to people across 130 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 3: the state including you know, helping people with getting access 131 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 3: to public records and suing the police and and you 132 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 3: know and federal agents. Yeah, when they were retaliated against. 133 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 3: And so we represented those women. And it was through 134 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 3: my work at Irwin and you know, connecting with the 135 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 3: organizers there, that I got involved with shut down campaigns, 136 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 3: or rather the shutdown Irwin campaign here in Georgia, and 137 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 3: then from there later got involved with the shutdown folks 138 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 3: in campaigns. So I had been asked to speak to 139 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 3: this group of people who I think were new to 140 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 3: the immigrants right struggle, to talk about, you know, what 141 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 3: it's like to try to prevent a detention center from 142 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 3: popping up in their community. 143 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: And they can say, like, it's not a community that 144 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: might traditionally be demographically the same as the people who 145 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: we associate with, like migrant advocacy, migrant activism. I guess 146 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: when a group like that comes into a moment like this, 147 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: there are some areas of like activism. I guess civil 148 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: society stuff where like white suburban folks have some experience, 149 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: right planning is one of them. Right, Like the recent 150 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: bike planes only go north south in San Diego is 151 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: because they think that those of us who can't afford 152 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: to live by the sea don't deserve to cycle safely. 153 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: Like there are many other examples of this. But what 154 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 1: there were there like thoughts when they when they first met. 155 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: I'm really interested to know that. Like, they're obviously upset 156 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: and they feel abandoned and betrayed, but like, how did 157 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 1: they want to organize to prevent this? 158 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 3: Well, a lot of them were upset about the decrease 159 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 3: in their property value. 160 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: That was what was really bricating. 161 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was redicalizing, mom, same with the bike lanes. 162 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 3: Actually, oh yeah, I bet yeah. And you know, but 163 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 3: in addition to the property value stuff, it's also you know, 164 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 3: the strain that this would impose on their small community. 165 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, a number of the people who live. 166 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 3: There might be of you know, well to do means, 167 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 3: but you know, their city police department employs a total 168 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 3: of fourteen officers and they have two on duty at 169 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 3: any given time. They have a fire department of you know, 170 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 3: comparably you know, small size, and they have you know, 171 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 3: water and sewer infrastructure that was built to accommodate about 172 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 3: as many people as live there. Now, you know, between 173 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 3: four thousand and five thousand people. And it's that impact 174 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 3: that is also you know, really maddening and activating and 175 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 3: agitating to people. Those arguments are not new to us 176 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 3: who have organized in South Georgia and also very red areas, 177 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 3: a lot more rural and a lot less wealthy, you know, 178 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 3: will try to We've canvas door to door in the 179 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 3: city of Folkston to try to ask people how do 180 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 3: they feel about this mega prison opening up in their community, 181 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 3: and a lot of people, you know, we're we're against it. 182 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 3: Despite the fact government officials might try to bill it 183 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 3: as you know, an economic boon, you know, an employment opportunity, 184 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 3: a lot of people said like, hey, I mean, I 185 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 3: don't necessarily want a prison in my backyard, but if 186 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 3: it's bringing jobs, then you know, that's what this community needs. 187 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,839 Speaker 3: That's something that I think makes Social Circle distinct from 188 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 3: the previous shutdown campaigns I've worked on in Irwin County 189 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 3: and in Folkston is that this isn't really an area 190 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 3: that is starved for employment or starved for you know, 191 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 3: economic support, Like these people are doing okay. And you know, 192 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 3: another thing that makes it distinct is before all of 193 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 3: this warehouse business, the vast majority of facilities in this 194 00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 3: country are formed through intergovernmental service agreements. 195 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 2: You know, we're iggs's for sure, it is the acronym. 196 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 3: But there are agreements between the federal government and the county, 197 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 3: the local government where the local government says, yes, you 198 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 3: can use our land or our facilities, and in exchange 199 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 3: you pay us, I mean in the case of folks, 200 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 3: and it's a comparably measly amount. 201 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 2: It's only two hundred thousand dollars per. 202 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 4: Year, Jesus, not much. 203 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, even though the federal government is giving i mean 204 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 3: fifty million dollars a year to insert your favorite private 205 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 3: prison corporation here, you know, whether. 206 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 2: It's Courcivic or geogroup. Yeah, I mean your favorite. There 207 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: are only two. 208 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 4: Really, yeah, not much of a joice. 209 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. 210 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 3: And so typically like we see this sort of like 211 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 3: co opting and manipulation of the local community and the 212 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 3: local government by the federal government, you know, coercing them 213 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 3: economically to you know, to take on these detention centers 214 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 3: or else. But here, I mean social like I said, 215 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 3: Social Circle is doing fine. They're not starved for economic investment. 216 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 3: And I didn't you know, consult them at all. It 217 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 3: really just like you know, in the dead of night 218 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 3: just bought this warehouse from a private company and push 219 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 3: this deal through. So those are some aspects that I 220 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 3: think might throw you know, some of us who might 221 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 3: have been involved in these similar fights before, like for 222 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 3: a loop a little bit, because yeah, there's this assumption 223 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 3: I think by some of the local officials that the 224 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 3: supremacy Clause governs here and the federal government can do 225 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 3: whatever it wants. So there's no point in us trying 226 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 3: to use our local zoning ordinances or what have you 227 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 3: to try to put a stop to this, because there's 228 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 3: nothing that we can do, right, is at least what 229 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 3: you know, some people might be saying. 230 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's take a break for advertisements. I can't think 231 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: of anything mean to say, I know, buy some shit. 232 00:13:50,040 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: This have come from a don't buy anything you don't need. Okay, 233 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: we are back. So you were talking about this assumption 234 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: that the supremacy cluse would mean that the federal government 235 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: could build a mega prison in a warehouse in your 236 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: town without asking you if it could do that. 237 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 4: First, can you explain like how. 238 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: People are able to use, like you said, like various 239 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: local tools to oppose this. 240 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 4: Like you said, it's a huge burden. 241 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: When I first read this story, I remember thinking about, like, 242 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: just like the water and sewage demands of housing eight 243 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: thousand people would be crippling for the infrastructure in a 244 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: lot of places, So like, how are people opposing this? 245 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 3: Well, it's been really inspiring for me to see these 246 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 3: local leaders who, again many of whom have you know, 247 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 3: never been involved in activism we're organizing before. They've been 248 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 3: very consistent in holding demonstrations on a weekly basis at 249 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 3: the site of this facility, and have garnered the attention 250 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 3: of different media who have come and interviewed them. So 251 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 3: that's been one way that they've been trying to, you know, 252 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 3: get their message out there. I was just talking about, 253 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 3: you know, the residents who are concerned from you know, 254 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 3: sort of fiscal perspective and are concerned about, you know, 255 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 3: their own property values and things like that. But there 256 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 3: are a fair number of people who are concerned about 257 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 3: you know, the core human rights abuses. 258 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 2: And you know, sures. 259 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 3: Some of the lines might be well, this isn't the 260 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 3: right place, you know, our city is not the right 261 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 3: place for a detention center, suggesting you know, implying that 262 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 3: there are some places that are suitable for a detention center. 263 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 2: But there are a fair. 264 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 3: Number of people in this community who who are opposed 265 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 3: to detention centers in general. I mean they see that 266 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 3: they see the violence that ICE is inflicting. 267 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 2: In broad daylight on. 268 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 3: Public streets, and I think they're they're horrified, and they 269 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 3: don't want to be complicit in in something like that, 270 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 3: you know, coming to their community. And I do think 271 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 3: that along the way, I'm seeing more of a shift 272 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 3: in the consciousness or at least an openness to understanding 273 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 3: the different influences that bring us to the same table. 274 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. 275 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 3: It has been very cool, and we can agree that. 276 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 3: You know, we're not going to have one hundred per 277 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 3: unity of ideas, but we can have a unity of action, 278 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 3: and you know, we can save these debates on you know, 279 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 3: I mean whether someone is illegal or not, but you know, 280 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 3: we can continue to have them along the way, as 281 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 3: we are also identifying the very concrete ways that we 282 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 3: can work together. And I'm thinking of one, for example, 283 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 3: I work pretty closely with some staffers for different members 284 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 3: of Congress. I mean in terms of like uplifting you know, 285 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 3: human rights and civil rights abuses that we see in 286 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 3: detention centers because as part of my job, I go 287 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 3: inside detention centers, immigration detention centers in Georgia pretty frequently, 288 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 3: also federal prisons, and we'll meet with people and learn 289 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,199 Speaker 3: about the conditions that they're facing and will you know, 290 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 3: fight for them to get released, and also share what 291 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 3: I learned from them with you know, different members of Congress, 292 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 3: and most of our connections are with people who are 293 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 3: aligned with the Democratic Party, you know, I mean to 294 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 3: be to be frank, you know, I've never initiated correspondents 295 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 3: with a Republican but I think I kind of just 296 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 3: assumed that they wouldn't want to, that I wouldn't get 297 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 3: anywhere with them, or. 298 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 2: That they wouldn't you know, that they wouldn't talk to me. 299 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 2: But what's been effective and working. 300 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 3: With this coalition of residents is some of these people, 301 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, like they you know, they've been card 302 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 3: carrying Republicans for a long time and feel that they, 303 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 3: you know, can wield influence over you know, certain Republican 304 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 3: elected officials and yeah, yeah, and one of them, you know, 305 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 3: I mean, well, I don't know how many of them, 306 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 3: but a number of these local residents have gotten Republican 307 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 3: you know, Mike Collins to come out against this ice facility. 308 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's especially right now in the Republican Party, and 309 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: like that that could be very difficult for them to do. 310 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: And I sort of on it's not hugely sympathetic to 311 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,679 Speaker 1: Republican politicians, and I would still like to see them 312 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: get better. 313 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 4: Like that's we want people to get better, that's the 314 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 4: whole thing. 315 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: And like I think for these people whose politics may 316 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: not be the same as ours, sharing the space, sharing 317 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: the movement, sharing this struggle. 318 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 4: Like, I hope it makes people better. 319 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: I hope being exposed to people who are not of 320 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: the same background as you, be like class rized, race wise, 321 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: politics wise, whatever, like makes people realize that things are 322 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: not quite how they're presented to them on the television 323 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: or in the media they consume totally. So I'm sure 324 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: that's yeah, Like I hope that it's positive. What can 325 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: like a local government do or even like elected officials do, 326 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: given that the elect officials on federal level do. Given that, 327 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I suggest appears to be operating like without 328 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: a great deal of oversight right now. 329 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean with each of these warehouses, there are 330 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 3: different circumstances around each of them. I've been really inspired, 331 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 3: honestly by the folks in Maryland who are dealing with 332 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 3: a warehouse, maybe multiple warehouses, I'm not sure. Yeah, where 333 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 3: you know, at both the local and the state level, 334 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 3: they have really pushed for legislation that would effectively, yeah, 335 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 3: I mean, prevent these warehouses from existing at all. It 336 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 3: is a different set of facts than what we're working 337 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 3: with here in Georgia because there's more involvement by private actors, 338 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,360 Speaker 3: and so the government, you know, the local government can 339 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 3: can regulate them more. But Maryland is certainly not the 340 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 3: only place where where those fights are happening. And so 341 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 3: I would really encourage folks to, yeah, to learn from Maryland. 342 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 3: And I get you know, I'm talking about you know, legislation. 343 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 3: I mean, I will be the first to tell you 344 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 3: as a lawyer that I don't think legal tools will 345 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 3: liberate us. 346 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 2: You know, the law will not make us free. 347 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah, And I do think it's the people power, 348 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 3: it's the coming together, it's the mass collective action that is, 349 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 3: you know, that's what's going. 350 00:20:58,520 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 2: To do it. 351 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 3: And also there are multile well, you know, there are 352 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 3: multiple tools and multiplement instruments that we can they can wield. 353 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 3: And so right now, I mean with respect to the 354 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 3: Social Circle warehouse, ICE is saying that they intend to 355 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 3: detain people in their starting in April, jeez, in less. 356 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 2: Than two months. Yeah, and so right now, the. 357 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 3: Strategy truly is to use just like every tool at 358 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 3: our disposal, identifying, Yeah, like what legislation can be filed, 359 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 3: what litigation you know, what lawsuits can be filed, what 360 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 3: you know, demonstrations, what kind of you know, canvassing, door knocking? 361 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 2: You know, you name it? 362 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 3: Like, how can how can people come together? How can 363 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 3: we try to identify which companies would be supplying the 364 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 3: labor to turn this warehouse into something, you know, where 365 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 3: people will be detained. I mean not that, not that 366 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 3: I think ICE gives a damn about making any type 367 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 3: of facilit habitable for humans. 368 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 2: But there's gonna be there's gonna be some work that. 369 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 3: Needs to be done in order to you know, turn 370 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 3: this you know, would be Amazon warehouse into a place 371 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 3: for people. And is there work that you know, local organizers, 372 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 3: because they're organizers. 373 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 2: We're all organ you know, we're all organizers. 374 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 3: Is there work that local organizers can do to try 375 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 3: to unite with laborers with workers who you know might 376 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 3: be working on this facility to try to like prevent 377 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 3: them or like city workers, Like can they prevent city 378 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 3: workers from like actually hooking up this warehouse to the 379 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 3: city utilities? 380 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 4: Right? 381 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, presumably Yeah, that will be a building contractor, right, 382 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: Like they will want to build thousands of cells in 383 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: this giant Yeah. The coll of that stuff, and especially 384 00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: with it happening so quickly, like you know, anything delays 385 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 1: that will cause it to at least slow it down. 386 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 4: I guess. 387 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 388 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 3: I think another angle that we haven't talked about yet 389 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 3: is the environmental angle, like with social circle, you know, 390 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 3: this is I mean a town of five thousand, it's 391 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 3: gonna trip. It's gonna nearly triple the number of people 392 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 3: in this place, and I mean and also triple the 393 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 3: amount of waste and sewage that's going to be coming 394 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 3: out of this place. 395 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 2: I mean, so that's one thing. 396 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 3: Another thing for people to look at is, you know, 397 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 3: what would the environmental impact of these warehouses be on 398 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 3: local waterways for example? 399 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 2: And that's what you know. 400 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 3: Temporarily put a stop on the detention facility in the 401 00:23:55,240 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 3: Everglades in Florida was a legal challenge in federal court 402 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 3: under NIPA, the National Environmental Protection Act, because the federal 403 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 3: government had failed to conduct the proper environmental impact assessments 404 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 3: and the only thing that they actually really had to 405 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 3: do was you know, something very procedural and you know, 406 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 3: tick a box. And ultimately the facility ended up moving forward. 407 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 3: But it was a tool to buy time to figure 408 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 3: out what other types of organizing can we do. 409 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's still like even if it's only time, right, 410 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 1: Like harm isn't being done in that time, and it's 411 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: still a good thing. 412 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like a form of harm reduction. 413 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: It reminds me a lot of the struggles here against 414 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: the UA larger border wall that we've seen since twenty fifteen, 415 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen when Trump got elected. Like I'm thinking about 416 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: how there have been ecological challenges to it, there have 417 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 1: been social challenges to it. 418 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 4: Right. 419 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: The City of San Diego is currently trying to sue 420 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: the FED to trest us for part of its wall construction, 421 00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: which like I'm not a big fan of our city 422 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,360 Speaker 1: govern meant, but like I'm glad they did that. 423 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 4: And all these different. 424 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: Tools have at least like at least in the last 425 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: Trump administration I remember in the late summer of twenty 426 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 1: twenty being out with some Kuma Yai folks who were 427 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: in ceremony because the wall construction was destroying Kuma ancestors 428 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: right who are buried there, and then the spaces where 429 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: they are buried, And they ran out the clock on 430 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: the Trump administration. Right by using their rights as indigenous 431 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 1: people to be in ceremony, the refusal of the workers 432 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: to literally drive a dump truck through the middle of 433 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 1: their ceremonial practices, they were able to run the clock. 434 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 4: Out on the Trump administration. Unfortunately, now we have another one. 435 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: But like all those different things had to work together 436 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: to mean that, like in that little part of the border, 437 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: somebody's great great grandparents remains weren't dynamited out of the earth, 438 00:25:58,520 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: and that's still a good thing. 439 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 4: However we got there, that's a good thing. 440 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 441 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 4: It makes me happy to hear that. 442 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: Like even folks who might have otherwise been politically aligned 443 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: with the project were appalled by this because the idea 444 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: of literally warehousing humans, like it's so fucking bleak, Like 445 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: there's these big warehouses where we fill them with shit 446 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: that we don't need. And now definitely them with people 447 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: that apparently we don't want, Like it's it's one of 448 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: the more horrific things that I know. It just it's 449 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: so bleak to me. 450 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I agree, Like the veil has just been 451 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 3: totally lifted, Like we know that they don't view immigrants 452 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 3: as human. Yeah, but now they're like not even pretending anymore, 453 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 3: just truly treating people like chattel. 454 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: Yeah again yeah again, right in the same places in 455 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: this instance. Like, I guess I'm glad that even people 456 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: who aren't not politically on the same team maybe like 457 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 1: are opposed to this because it's, uh, yeah, it is repugnant. 458 00:26:59,480 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 459 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: I guess what if people are hearing about this for 460 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: the first time, right, and will include that link to 461 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: the article so people can look up where these locations are, 462 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: if any of them. What advice would you have for 463 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: people if you're listening to this, you click on that link, 464 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: you find this one half an hour from your house 465 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: or whatever, Like, what advice do you have for those people? 466 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 3: I think if you're already an organizer, regardless of whether 467 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 3: you've been in the immigrants' rights fight or not, now 468 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 3: is the time when it really is like all hands 469 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 3: on deck. So don't be afraid to get involved. But also, 470 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 3: you know, like we were talking about before we started, 471 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 3: is I think guarantee that there is some immigrants rights 472 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 3: movement in. 473 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 2: Your locale or somewhere close by. 474 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 3: And I think it's just so important to you know, 475 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 3: approach this work not with the assumption that you are starting, 476 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 3: you know, launching this new campaign, spearheading this you know, new, 477 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 3: previously untapped, you know, area of work, because I guarantee 478 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 3: you that you know, there are people who have have 479 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 3: worked on this before. And so I think connect with 480 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 3: you know, connect both with people who have been doing 481 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 3: this work for a long time, and also try to 482 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 3: connect with people who you might not otherwise have thought 483 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 3: to connect with. And I think it's important to call 484 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 3: out the nimbiism, the not in my backyardism of of how, 485 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 3: you know, some people are coming at this issue because 486 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 3: they're you know, they're worried about their property value. 487 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 2: But it's also something that we can capitalize on. 488 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 3: Right It's energy and oftentimes it's people with capital and 489 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 3: connections that. 490 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 2: You know that you might not otherwise have had access 491 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 2: to either. 492 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 3: So I think, you know, the connecting you know, in 493 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 3: the community organizing needs to go in multiple directions, but 494 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 3: I do think it's important to move. 495 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's important to move. 496 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: Fast, Yeah seriously, Like like that is a very constrained timeline, 497 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: like everybody has to be, but that means it's also 498 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: important to move respectfully, right, because like, if we just 499 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: blow each other shit up, because yet people assume that 500 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: migrant communities have somehow not been advocating for themselves in 501 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: each other for centuries, then we're not going to have 502 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: time to organize because we're going to be dealing with 503 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: that shit. And I've seen that so much just personally, right, 504 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,719 Speaker 1: Like having been involved for some time in migrant advocacy 505 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: and seeing folks like pop in and tell us how 506 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: to do everything. It's tiresome, and I understand that you'll 507 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,239 Speaker 1: want to help, but yeah, if this is something that 508 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: like you're organizing around, super easy to find those organizations 509 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: to be like, how can I help? 510 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's also such a good like this fight 511 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 3: in particular is such a good vehicle for fighting. 512 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 2: For abolition overall. 513 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 3: As someone who's been saying abolish ice for years, it 514 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 3: is amazing to see how much traction that phrase has gotten, 515 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 3: especially over the last six months and We can't just 516 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 3: be fighting against you know, preventing. 517 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 2: New ICE facilities. 518 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 3: We need to be fighting for shutting down all ICE 519 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 3: facilities and for abolishing ICE as an institution. We've been 520 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 3: around before ICE, and we will be around after ICE. 521 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 3: As you know, as an agency, ICE has only been 522 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 3: around since two thousand and three. Sure there was a predecessor, 523 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 3: there was the i INS, but I mean it didn't 524 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 3: operate in nearly the type of way that ICE does 525 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 3: now as this you know, law enforcement agency. And even 526 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 3: before Trump, like ICE was still a really you know, 527 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 3: horrible like a horrible yeah, yeah, agency, And so yeah, 528 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 3: I think it's important to continue to you know, point 529 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 3: these things out while also you know, welcoming people into 530 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 3: the fight and. 531 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and pushing them, pushing them further. 532 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's really it's really important. Like I 533 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: think we have to rebut the assumption that this is 534 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: an aberration and we can fix it and go back 535 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: to normal, because normal was bad and you just couldn't 536 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: see it because it wasn't on your screen, right, Like 537 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: children died in outdoor attention under Biden. I saw people 538 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: suffer im mentally in outdoor attention Underbiden. Like we don't 539 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: want to go back to that either. And I think 540 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: it's really important that when we build these coalitions we 541 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: build them with that in mind, that like, we're organizing 542 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: very quickly, but also we're in this for the long horn, 543 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: until everybody's free. Is there anything that you'd like to 544 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: leave people with resources or a bit of advice, any 545 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: like closing words to share with him? 546 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 2: Abolish ize? It's all I got perfect. It Could Happen 547 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 2: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 548 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 549 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 3: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio. 550 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 2: App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You 551 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 2: can now find sources for It Could Happen Here, listed 552 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 2: directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.