1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Ruthie's Table four is now a book. Paul McCartney, Michael Caine, 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: Kamala Harris, David Beckham, Tina fey Elton John and many more. 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: It's full of stories, beautifully designed, and a celebration of 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: the way food connects us all. It's available now wherever 5 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: you buy your books. Ruthie's Table four brought to you 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: by Sky and Montclair. My brother Michael Elias is one 7 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: of the most interesting and provocative people I know. When 8 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: in doubt or I'm not sure what position to take 9 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: on any subject, from the politics of the day to 10 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: the Nicks winning or losing, I call him, and although 11 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: he is in Los Angeles and I'm in London, he 12 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: sets me in the right direction. Recently, though our calls 13 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: have been about one important thing. His book, Bender's La 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: compelling and beautifully written. As as Hero is a comedy 15 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: writer in the nineteen seventies, navigating success and rejection, relationships 16 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: and heartbreak, the political and the personal. Today, we're going 17 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: to talk as if we were at the same table 18 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: in the River Cafe, though he is Los Angeles and 19 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 1: I'm in London, about writing, cooking, and most of all, 20 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: this brilliant book vendors La. So, Michael, here, we are here, we. 21 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: Are how are you? What's what? Six thousand miles, six. 22 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: Thousand miles, a few oceans, valleys. It's so good to 23 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: be with you. It's the beginning of your day in 24 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: Los Angeles. It's the end of my day in London. 25 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: And I thought that, holding this book, there's so much 26 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: that we want to discuss. There's so much for each 27 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: of us to say. But I thought maybe the way 28 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: we could begin this conversation is for you to read 29 00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: a paragraph from the book. 30 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 2: Okay, this is about Bender in New York. In New York, 31 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: Bender had. 32 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 3: Submitted jokes and sketches to comedians and agents, earning money. 33 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 3: As a substitute teacher in the public schools. He was 34 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 3: a jack of all trades, adept at math, science, art, Spanish, 35 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 3: facing rooms of surly adolescents ready to do combat with 36 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 3: the sub He measured teaching days like a fur trapper. 37 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 3: Counting pelts. Four pelts paid the rent at their apartment 38 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 3: on the Lower East Side. Three brought groceries for a month, 39 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 3: two got them movies and an off Broadway play and 40 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,959 Speaker 3: dinner in Chinatown. Ellen worked weekend nights at Joe Allen 41 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 3: and fed Bender when she was on duty. They weren't poor, 42 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 3: they weren't rich. They were two American immigrants in Manhattan, 43 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 3: learning the language of the city, finding their burrows and 44 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 3: nests in the village, then Soho, finally settling in the 45 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 3: Lower east Side. Priced out of the world of Capote 46 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:04,119 Speaker 3: and Naylor, they didn't care or even notice they got by. 47 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 3: Their apartment had a gas refrigerated, barred windows overlooking a 48 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 3: field of junk and no sink in the bathroom, but 49 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 3: Alan Ginsberg lived upstairs. They never ate in a restaurant 50 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 3: that owned a law or lay, but alternated between Ratner's 51 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 3: and Max's, with an occasional stop at the BNH or 52 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 3: a fat egg roll at the entrance to the irt 53 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 3: on astor place. 54 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: That's a beautiful reading. Tell me, really, how do you 55 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: see what this book is about. 56 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 3: It's the Atomic Adventures or the Journey of Bender. He's 57 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 3: a writer who comes from the seventies radical theater of 58 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 3: New York to work in Hollywood, where he jogs with 59 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 3: Burt Lancaster, He plays tennis with Abbey Hoffman. He hides 60 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 3: a weather on the Ground member from the FBI. He 61 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 3: even he goes back in time and falls in love 62 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 3: with the young Marilyn Monroe. He's unhappily separated from his 63 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 3: radical lawyer wife, helplessly attracted to a series of fascinating women, 64 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 3: among them a fictional Ef Babbitts. He's got a really 65 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 3: smart psychiatrist and a powerful agent, Neil Navitz. 66 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: The last line of your book says Bender, hurry, food 67 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: is getting cold, and that I think is a beautiful 68 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: last sentence. But it also brings me to talk to 69 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: you about food because so much of it takes place 70 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles restaurants, Dantana's, The Palm, a Maison Delicatestins. 71 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: And so I suppose I was thinking, we have done 72 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: a podcast with you about food, what you eat, what 73 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: you cook, your memories of growing up. If I were 74 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: having Bender on this podcast, and I would love to 75 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: have because of his ca character. He was a person 76 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: I would love to have interviewed. Would you have told 77 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: me about his life and food? 78 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 2: Oh, Bend. 79 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 3: It brought his appetite from New York to Los Angeles, 80 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 3: that's for sure. He found in Langers as Nora Ephron's 81 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 3: ad the best POSTROOMI in the world. He found the 82 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 3: city suburbs of Los Angeles that had the best Chinese 83 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 3: restaurants in the world. He found and discovered Mexican food 84 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,239 Speaker 3: that he had never imagined. He saw supermarkets that were 85 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 3: like football fields filled with the freshest produce one could imagine. 86 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:42,559 Speaker 3: He found Wolfgang Puck who had risen or emerged from 87 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 3: Mammaison to Spago with Mark Peel and Nancy Silverton, and 88 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 3: these were all they transformed the appetite of Los Angeles, 89 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 3: and they made it exciting, and they had no boundaries. 90 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 3: And we'll take a little bit from the Japanese cuisine 91 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 3: and we'll add some Cambodian and it became eating in 92 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 3: Los Angeles became a great adventure. 93 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 2: And Bender enjoyed it all. 94 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: He did enjoy it all. How do you find the 95 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: food culture in Los Angeles right now? 96 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 3: I hate to use the word better, but I think 97 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 3: it is. The restaurants are varied, as I said, and 98 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 3: their discoveries to be made all the time, and all 99 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 3: of a sudden, everybody's flocking to Glendale for the best 100 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 3: Armenian restaurants or Westward Boulevard with it, we call it 101 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 3: Little Tehran. And the search for the perfect Hamburger, which 102 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 3: I'm getting a little bored with. I have to say, 103 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 3: I imagined a fortune teller looking into a crystal ball 104 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 3: and saying, I see the end of the smash Burger. 105 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 2: I hope. So. 106 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: Reading the book myself and knowing the author very well, 107 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: there is a sense of biographical in this novel. Did 108 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: you ever think of writing it as a memoir instead 109 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: of as a novel? 110 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 3: Yes, but I chose to write it as a novel 111 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 3: because I could invent things in my hero's life, Whereas 112 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 3: if it were a memoir, I suppose I would have 113 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 3: to tell the truth, which I enjoy writing fiction and 114 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 3: making up events and embellishing probably a lot of What 115 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 3: was my life in Hollywood? 116 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: What was your life? Tell me about it. 117 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 3: I came from New York, and I had a background 118 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 3: in radical theater and the New York Off Broadway scene, 119 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 3: the living theater of a Mama. 120 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: Judson as an actor, or as. 121 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 3: I started as an actor, and then I became a 122 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 3: comedian and still keeping my career as an actor. But 123 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 3: here I was with my partner Frank Shaw on the 124 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 3: Johnny Carson Show, and a producer called and said, who 125 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 3: writes your material? And we said, we do. He said, 126 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 3: would you like to come to Hollywood and be writers? 127 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 3: And we said yes? And then I said what about 128 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 3: the act? And he said not interested. So we gave 129 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 3: up the act, came to Hollywood and started writing comedy 130 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 3: and what did you write? 131 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 2: We first started writing. 132 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 3: Variety shows Glenn Campbell, Smothers Brothers and Leslie Ugghams, and 133 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 3: then we transitioned from We changed from variety shows which 134 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 3: died out to sitcoms and we wrote All the Family 135 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 3: and Mary Tyler Moore, and then I teamed up with 136 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 3: rich Eustace and we created our own a half hour 137 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 3: sitcom called Head of the Class, a show about high 138 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 3: school students. But our take was they were really smart, 139 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 3: and they were naive and unsophisticated about the real world, 140 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 3: but they were all really smart. And then the last 141 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 3: season was the Teacher and the star of the show 142 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 3: was Billy Connolly and that one of the best experiences 143 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 3: in my life. He was brilliant, inventive and it was great. 144 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 3: I also wrote screenplays all during this time, and on 145 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 3: one of the shows I worked with Steve Martin. 146 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 2: We were both writers, but he was a writer. 147 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 3: Who was becoming a comedian and I was an ex 148 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 3: comedian who was becoming a writer, and we had a 149 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 3: friendship and a collaboration and I ended up writing The 150 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 3: Jerk with him and some specials and we've remained friends 151 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 3: ever since. 152 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I just saw him. He's in London right now 153 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 1: filming Murders in the building, so he and Marty Short 154 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 1: are here, and he talked so compellingly really about writing 155 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: The Jerk with you and the effect of that. And 156 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: it's also interesting to think about what how much comedy 157 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: and what you were working in terms of comedy when 158 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: there was a kind of tumultuous political and social environment 159 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: going on at that time, wasn't there. 160 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 3: Well, it was a Vietnam War in the seventies, and 161 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 3: it was it divided Hollywood in a lot of ways. 162 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 3: Those who were against the war. Jane Fonda down at Sutherland, 163 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 3: there were Sds Tom Hayden, Black Panthers. 164 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 2: It was a tumultuous time. 165 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 3: And it's the same but you also had John Wayne 166 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 3: on the other side, and Nixon was president, and so 167 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 3: Hollywood was a really interesting place. 168 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: At the time, coming from the theater and comedy to 169 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: writing television. We know about the parallels between your life 170 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: and Benders. You're going from New York to Los Angeles. 171 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 1: But tell me more about as a writer creating this character. 172 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: Tell me more about Bender. 173 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 3: Bender gets by, he misses New York when he comes 174 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 3: to love Los Angeles and its own incredible art world 175 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 3: with Edrew Shea and Frank Romero, Patsy Valdez, Charlswood, Karabedian 176 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 3: for Bender, I would says he gets to know La 177 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 3: New York receipts. At the same time, Bender has his 178 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 3: own confession to make about his betrayal of a friend. 179 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 3: So he and all the time I think Bender survives. 180 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: Yes, he does, he does. He really prevails. I think 181 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: when I read it so visual as well, did you 182 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: think about writing it as a movie? What compelled you 183 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: to write this as a novel is apart from say 184 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: a film. 185 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 3: Raymond Chandler said, when you come to Hollywood, you're going 186 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 3: to be a Hollywood writer. You better have something that 187 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 3: you're writing that is yours and nobody can tell you 188 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 3: how to change it. No producer can rewrite it, no 189 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 3: director can rewrite it. And it's yours. Whether it could 190 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 3: be a poem and essay, a play, whatever. And I 191 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 3: always and the thing about writing a novel after years 192 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 3: of writing screenplays and television shows, is that you control it. 193 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 3: You're in charge until it's finished, and then you can 194 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 3: work with an editor, of course, or a publisher. But 195 00:11:55,640 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 3: that freedom to do what you want is what, at 196 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 3: least that's what propelled me to really love and enjoy 197 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 3: writing a novel. 198 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: Bender comes to La, but he does miss his New York. 199 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 1: And so you've told us what it took to get 200 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 1: used to it. City where you have to drive everywhere, 201 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: city that was just called a city, but as there 202 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: was no there in many ways? Do you find that 203 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: missing New York was that interesting to write for you? 204 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: Did that feel very real to you. 205 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 3: People? 206 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 2: It was? It's funny people at the time. 207 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 3: I would hear people say I missed New York a lot, 208 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 3: and it turned out what they missed was Bloomingdale's and 209 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 3: Broadway musicals, and I think that was I didn't miss that. 210 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 3: I missed some ways. I missed my Chinatown, my living theater, 211 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 3: the artist loft parties, the Bowery lofts, and all of 212 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 3: a sudden, I found myself in a car culture which 213 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 3: I wasn't used to. I found myself driving freeways. La 214 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 3: was separate. It's almost like separate villages, and you had 215 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 3: to learn to connect and navigate them. And that's what 216 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 3: Bender does and the people, and once you discover it 217 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 3: or get to know it, it's an amazing diverse place. 218 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 2: Now. 219 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 3: We have neighborhoods that are labeled. We have a Filipino town, 220 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 3: we have Korea Town, we have japan Town, we have 221 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 3: Little Armenia, we have Little Tehran, and they have their restaurants. 222 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 2: Their bookstore. 223 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 3: So it's an amazing place to live now. 224 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: The way that this book does feel like it couldn't 225 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: be written in any other city. It was also an 226 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: out friendship in Los Angeles, which brings me to your 227 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: friend and Bender's friend based on if babbitts. 228 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 3: Yes, I met even New York when she was working 229 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 3: for the East Village Others and I was in the 230 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 3: Living theater. We met a Salvador Dowley opening and we talked, 231 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 3: and then she gave me your phone number and said, 232 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 3: if you're ever in La call me, and I did. 233 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,479 Speaker 3: And that was the beginning of a forty year friendship 234 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 3: and a collaboration. And I'm a character in her books, 235 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 3: and she became a character in my book. She's me me, 236 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 3: and she spent her moral guide almost in his life 237 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 3: and is his constant friend and closest friend all throughout 238 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 3: the novel, as she was in my life. The other 239 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 3: thing about Eve is said, when I arrived, she brought 240 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 3: me into her family. And her father was a classical violinist, 241 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 3: her mother was an artist, and her sister designer. And 242 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 3: it was great to happen. Well, it was to arrive 243 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 3: in Los Angeles and find a family. 244 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: When you were writing about her, did it bring back 245 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: a lot of the times that you had? 246 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 3: It was revisiting our friendship. And she was an important 247 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 3: part of my life and an important part of the 248 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 3: LA literary scene at the time, and even more so now. 249 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: And I think, why do you say more so now. 250 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 3: There's been a revival of her work thanks to her 251 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 3: a longtime agent, Erica Silverman, who got her books all republished. 252 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 3: And it's funny. When I was living in Paris, sometimes 253 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 3: I would meet a writer who would ask where I'm from. 254 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 3: I would say La and they would say, oh, wow, 255 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 3: do you know Eve Babbitts And I did. And also, 256 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 3: of course Lily Anilik, who wrote a biography of Eve 257 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 3: and alongside of this. My publisher is taking Place Books 258 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 3: is publishing two screenplays that Eve and I wrote together. 259 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 3: One was turned into a French movie called Envoy a 260 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 3: Les v Alone and the other one remember Pearl Harbor, 261 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 3: about Hollywood right after the Second World War. It's more 262 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 3: of a Hollywood noir. We had a great time writing them, 263 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 3: and I'm so glad that Sticking Placebooks publish them. 264 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: Let's talk about your writing. Do you have a routine? 265 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: Do you eat before you sit down? Do you take breaks? 266 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: How does food enter your working day? 267 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 3: Unfortunately I live within walking distance of a refrigerator. 268 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 2: But I'm pretty good about it now. 269 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 3: I you said, joked that my writing schedule was avoiding 270 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 3: it as long as I could, until I couldn't do 271 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 3: it anymore. Then I started writing, and I find great 272 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 3: comfort in my relationship with my computer. And you said, 273 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 3: be what I think a writer would take a break? 274 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 3: Walk around the block. And now I take a break 275 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 3: and I don't know, read the Huffington Post or listen 276 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 3: to your podcast. 277 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm calling from the middle of London. And I 278 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: walked into this meeting room that a friend hasn't led 279 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: me in his restaurant, of all places, I'm talking to 280 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: you from another person's restaurant, and she said, what is 281 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: what are you carrying? What is that book? And I 282 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: told her and she said, what a beautiful cover. And 283 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: we don't tell a book by its cover. But I 284 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: know that you are an art collector. I know that 285 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: you have his sister as we both do as a painter. 286 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: We know that museums are your first stop in a city, 287 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: and so it isn't surprising to me that you have 288 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: this beautiful work of art on your cover. Tell me 289 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: the process of choosing the cover of the book. 290 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 3: The cover was designed or made by Devorah Blom, who's 291 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 3: done a series of beautiful portraits of Los Angeles. And 292 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 3: we plan another edition, a hardcover where every chapter will 293 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 3: include one of her drawings of Los Angeles. Yeah, so 294 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 3: that was really lucky. 295 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: Find Benders la Is on seld Where and tell me 296 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: how we can buy copies of this book. 297 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 3: You can get it from the publishers, Sticking Place books 298 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 3: and I hope and bookstores in London. 299 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: It is and it's for sale, and it's for sale 300 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: in the River Cafe, so you can have a meal 301 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: and buy a book. The other question that we ask 302 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: every guest at the end of the interview, and it 303 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: will be my last question to you is what do 304 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 1: you think Bender's comfort food would be? If Bender needed comfort, 305 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: he would want to prepare or have prepared for him. 306 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 3: Bender would prepare it. He's got a big appetite and 307 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 3: he likes to cook, so if he had the River 308 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 3: Cafe cookbook in hand, he would make a comfort meal. 309 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 3: It would start with ricotta al four note, then risotto 310 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 3: con pizilli and pork cooked in milk. The dessert, he 311 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 3: wouldn't tackle the chocolate nemesis or the caramel ice cream, 312 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 3: so dessert would be a peach. 313 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: Thank you, Michael, and thank you Bender Benders written by 314 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: Michael Elias and on sale now. I really tell you 315 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: all of you listening. If you enjoyed this podcast, go 316 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: and enjoy this book. Thank you Michael, Thank you. 317 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 3: Ruthie's Table Fur was produced by Alex Bell, Robbie Hamilton, 318 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 3: and Zad Rodgers with Andrew Sang and Bella Selina. 319 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 2: This has been an atomized production for iHeartMedia.