WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: The Disappearance of Andrew Gosden 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:03.440 Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by a mongoose 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:06.600 playing the Uku Lately. Instead, it's supported by the generous 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:11.600 donations of our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot com 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:19.759 slash thinking sideways to learn more and thanks Thinking Sideways. 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:30.680 I don't you never know stories of things we simply 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:36.479 don't know the answer too. Hey, guys, welcome to another 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:40.720 episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast. I am Devin, joined 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:45.280 as always by Joe and Steve. We're gonna talk about 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:49.479 a mystery today, I'm like most days. We're going to 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:56.000 talk about the story of Andrew Gosden, who's missing teenager. 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.560 Well he's not a teenager anymore. But um, and before 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:01.240 we get too or into it, because I'm really good 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:04.479 at forgetting uh, this was a suggestion from I think 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:07.600 Katrina or Katerina. I'm sorry, I don't know which one 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:11.080 it is, but thanks for suggesting it, both of them, 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:13.640 both both of them. Yeah, And I know we've gotten 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:17.000 suggestions for this in between the time that she suggested it, 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:20.480 but I didn't write any other names down. Apparently. I know. 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:24.959 Andrew Gosden was a normal fourteen year old guy. He 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:28.160 was a very bright young man, described as quite the 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:33.120 math genius or quiet math genius, whichever. Yeah, he had 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.840 a hundred percent attendance record for school except for this 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:41.920 one time. He had won a number of national math competitions. 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:43.800 And he was the kind of kid who would leave 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:46.240 a note um pretty much if he just like went 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:48.600 around the corner. I don't worry either of you guys. 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:50.480 Neither of you guys were kids like that, right, No. 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.520 I was a kid like that for my parents. If 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:55.960 I left for any reason, yeah, I had to, but 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:59.000 I usually had somebody at home so it was easy. Yeah. 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:02.160 He was also really into heavy metal. And that's the 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:05.240 description you'll hear about him. That's it. Yeah, That's one 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:07.200 of the frustrating things about this case is I don't 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.560 really feel like I know much about Andrew. You know, 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:13.480 there's there's a very patent or patent what's the word. 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:17.320 I'm trying to say, very pat description of him that 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:21.000 is out there, and it is almost verbatim, these four 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:26.480 or five lines when um so in the development marketing world, 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:31.679 we call that a broiler plate boiler a broiler. Yes, 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:35.000 you're right where it's just you know, three lines about 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:37.920 this thing. That's what this is. Yes, and it's the 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.000 only information that I can really find about that. I 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:42.480 know that I don't even know if he had friends, 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:44.200 And then you think that would have no idea, it 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:47.400 would assume so, but I don't know. Probably on the 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:51.079 morning of Friday, September four, two thousand seven, Andrew woke 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.760 up a bit late and was grumpy, and his mom 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:56.160 thought that was kind of odd. He was usually kind 0:02:56.160 --> 0:03:00.080 of awake on time and ready for school. But he 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:02.480 got dressed in his uniform anyway, put his backpack on, 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:04.760 and left for school with his typical bice you later. 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:08.639 I'm gonna pause here to apologize. I am recovering from 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.760 a coal So if I sound a bit stuffy or weird, 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:20.119 that's why. Actually you sound all right, I wouldn't worry 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:22.600 about it. Well to our listeners, I'm sorry, all right. 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.640 Back to Andrew. After his parents left for work, Andrew 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.760 actually returned home and changed out of his uniforms, so 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:32.240 he skipped around the block and basically hid for Yeah. Yeah, 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:33.880 I don't know what he did in that time. I 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:36.400 probably that long I heard any one sat in the 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.840 park for a little while. That what's really sad about 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:43.120 this is that Andrew's perfect attendance record was kind of 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:47.040 ruined by him doing this. It's true. Yeah, weird, Well, 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:51.440 there's only so many years when a perfect attendance really matters. 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:55.520 That's true. I had it as a kid. Oh totally, 0:03:55.600 --> 0:04:00.480 did you perfect? Totally had perfect attendance for years in 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:02.800 a row. I well, you know, I don't get sick, 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:06.080 and I never never played hoockey. And then one day 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:08.000 I was like, I don't want to go, and I 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:11.800 just I don't care anymore, and so then I would 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:15.560 start to cut well, and then the rest was history. Yes, 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:21.320 and that's why you're poor. Okay, So whether he went 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:23.640 to a park or whether he just walked around the 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:25.960 block a couple of times. I actually, frankly, I don't 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:28.680 know how we would know really what he did. Um, 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:31.320 But anyway, he left the house for a little while, 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:34.080 and then he returned home and he changed out of 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:37.680 his uniform. He put the shirt and pants in the 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.040 washer like he normally did when he came home from school, 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.560 put his blazer um hanging on the back of his 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:46.159 chair in his room because school did. Yeah, almost everybody 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:48.640 in Britain has a school uniform. I think, yeah, that's 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:50.760 a thing. I think that's a thing there. Sorry, I 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.720 don't mean to offend anybody, but I think it is 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.479 so this is he was following the typical thing that 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.040 he would do when he was home from school, which 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:02.280 leads people to believe that he was trying to make 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:04.040 it look like he had come from home from school. 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:08.200 Right at the end of school, he changed into a 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:10.200 set of clothes that was kind of what I would 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:12.720 say was his actual uniform. You know, there are people 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.120 who have performs in this world. And it was a 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:18.400 pair of jeans and a black T shirt. It was 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.680 a Slipknot T shirt because he was the band. He 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.960 was really really into Slipknot. He took his bag with 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:28.480 him and left and never returned home. Yeah, so that's 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:32.200 our mystery. Yeah where he went. Did to take his passport? No, 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:36.120 not as far as I know. His parents reported that 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:39.200 none of his clothes were missing, and other than the 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:42.040 jeans and T shirt that he had worn as well 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:46.200 as it looked like his charger. He took his PSP 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:49.200 with him, his portable PlayStation with him, but it looked 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:52.680 like he had left the charger there. So the that 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.040 is meant, that's that bit of the storytelling us meant 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.320 to infer that he didn't pack an overnight bag. Although, 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:00.279 and we'll talk about this a little more when we 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.760 get into the theories, which I know is everyone's favorite 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:05.320 thing to hear from us, But I don't know that 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.320 parents would necessarily notice if you had grabbed a couple 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.240 of extra slip NOTO shirts. I was going to say, 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:13.919 another pair of jeans. There was a bag in the 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:18.479 bag looked like it wasn't empty, it wasn't stuffed fault. No, 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:21.160 it's not like he put all his possessions into one bag, 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.640 but it did look like there was stuff in it, 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.880 and mom and dad don't know what you Although although 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:29.760 if I was taking a PSP with me, I would 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:33.440 probably take the charger because those chargers are expensive. They're 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.040 like iPhone chargers. So it's not as though fourteen year 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.320 old boy is necessarily going to have backups of that. 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:40.760 Although maybe he did and they just didn't know. Who knows. 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:43.640 I don't think that he thought about it. Yeah, it 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:47.159 could have just forgotten. So it wasn't until Andrew's mom 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:50.680 asked his sister Charlotte, who's also often referred to as Charlie, 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.400 to call him for dinner that they realized he was missing. 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:55.440 You know, since I mentioned it seemed like he had 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:57.560 just come home from school and you know, was in 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.919 his room. I think he was the door that was 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:05.600 going to happen. Never explicitly said, but yeah, we don't know. 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:07.760 Is he the kid that just always went upstairs right 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.520 after school, dropped his clothes and shut the door. Seems 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:14.480 like it. So his mom and dad and sister started 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:17.239 calling around to his friends. So he did have friends, 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.200 never hear from them. Uh, And it sounds like they 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:23.280 realized at that point that he hadn't actually been to 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.920 school that day, which of course was very odd for him. Uh. 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:29.840 And they called the police immediately and reported him missing, 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.240 which I guess you can do in in the States. 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:34.640 I don't think. I don't know what they actually for 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:36.360 a minor. I don't think it's I don't know what. 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:38.960 I don't know what the time limit is there. It 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:43.800 wasn't until the following Tuesday that any leads emerged about 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:48.040 where Andrew might have gone. An employee at the railway. 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:51.360 Um unemployee of the railway came forward and said that 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:55.000 she remembered selling a ticket to Andrew to King's Cross 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:59.480 station and in London. Yeah, and she remembered him for 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:01.600 two reasons. One was that she thought that he was 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:03.920 maybe a bit young to be going to London alone, 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:07.720 because he he actually looked like he was probably about twelve. Yeah, 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:11.040 he looked young for his age. He was pretty short. 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:15.440 He was five three. Yeah, yeah, so you've three right. 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:17.840 I'm smaller than five three, but not by much. So 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:20.400 he was about my size, which you know for thirteen 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.840 year old boy. Boys get tall at different ages, so 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:26.600 it's not as though he would have maybe been short 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.520 his whole life. But but he wasn't. He wasn't a 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.080 big kid, and he did look very young. Yes, he 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:34.640 was baby face. He did have a baby face. Yeah. 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:39.360 The other reason that the railway worker remembered Andrew was 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.920 because she had mentioned that a round trip ticket back 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:46.520 from London would actually just be fifties pence more um. 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:48.280 But he said that he just wanted the one way 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:51.280 ticket only. Does I mean the one way ticket was 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:55.720 something ridiculous like right, like sixty pounds pounds? You know. Actually, 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:58.199 we don't have a number on that. We have some 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:00.520 inferences on how much it might have called, but I 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:04.480 don't know that I've ever seen anywhere explicitly said because 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.959 the rates changed. Yeah, and we'll talk at all and 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.840 then actually it's nine years now, yeah, so we'll talk 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.079 about all of this in the in the theories as well, 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.440 and as to also as to why maybe he would 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.920 have declined that offer. His path to the train station 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.520 became pretty clear. Actually he had walked from his home 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:26.240 in UM Doncaster UM to the railway station, also in Doncaster, 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.000 and it's about a twenty minute walk, which figures pretty 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:33.320 solidly into the timeline of the events in the morning UM. 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:35.080 And he actually stopped on the way at an a 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.520 t M and took out two hundred pounds of his 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:40.280 out of his savings account, and that there's obviously a 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.360 transaction receipt for that transaction, so they were able to 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:44.880 find that out through the bank that he did in 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:47.280 fact do that, And reports differ on this if that 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:49.920 actually drained his savings account or if it was just 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.120 two hundred pounds out of his savings account. On the 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:55.679 website that his parents run, it says that he drained 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:58.599 his account, but in other fairly credible retellings of the 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:00.320 story that I would say it said that he just 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:03.640 took two hundred pounds out of his account it was 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:08.199 yearly drawing. Well, I mean he did withdraw two hundred pounds, 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:10.280 whether he drained it or not, and that maybe why 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:12.439 it's standing that way. I don't know. Yeah, so I 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:15.560 guess for me, it's just a small clarification that I 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:17.880 wish we had. There's a lot of them. I guess. 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.240 I'm willing to say that if his parents website says 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:22.520 it drained his account, then I drained his account. But 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:24.480 then that brings up more questions to me about some 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:27.600 other stuff we found out later. Either way, there was 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.440 a woman on the train who came forward much later, 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:32.320 I think, like a month later, and said that she 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:35.400 recalled him being on the train quietly playing his PlayStation 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:40.679 two around am on the train from Doncaster to London 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:44.480 that morning. But Doncaster is what about from London something 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.320 like that. That's about an hour and a half long 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:53.440 train ride. It's about three hour drive. Okay, So all 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:55.959 of the times I should I should just stop to 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.960 say that, up until we lose track of Andrew, all 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.960 of the times of what happened up until then totally 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:04.920 match up. There's not a question in anyone's mind that 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:08.720 this isn't what happened because it's all exactly the times 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:12.320 are always its stitches together. Yeah, it's seamless. So twenty 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:16.080 seven days later, investigators were finally able to find three 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:20.600 frames of Andrew at King's Cross at a m which 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:24.600 is when that train arrived in London on September Um, 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.280 and he was leaving the station. All of the other 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:31.240 CCTV from the area had been wiped by that point. Um, 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:34.600 And it's the last confirmed sighting of Andrew like ever 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:38.800 and it was white because nobody maintains that kind of record, 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:41.680 and definitely they have to cycle. It was like, yeah, 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:43.920 and I'm actually was just going to talk about a 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:45.160 few of the things before that, but we can just 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:48.160 talk about that right now. Um. The CCTV in London 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:51.960 has an automatic thirty day data override, and they obviously 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.920 don't publicize when this happens. Um, well, I don't think 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.199 I think that happens every day, right so, but it's 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.720 not clear to me. I believe that's the case, but 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.599 some of the tellings people seem to be under the 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:05.520 impression that every thirty days it just wipes the last 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:11.040 thirty days. That's the dumbest thing, thank you guys, know, 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:12.960 there are people out there. There are people out there 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:15.440 who say stuff on the Internet's like, how did how 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:19.360 did Andrew know that they were right? Yeah, people are like, oh, 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:20.800 he timed it. That was what I was going to 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:23.080 bring up, is that you'll see in in a lot 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:27.680 of stuff on the Internet that that somebody says, um, oh, yeah, 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:30.760 he timed it perfectly so that the he knew that 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.880 the tapes were gonna be deleted just that day, so 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:40.760 after somebody that doesn't understand how data is recorded and stored. Well, So, 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.080 the only thing I guess that's a little frustrating is 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:45.880 that they did discover those three frames thirty or twenty 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:48.160 seven days later, which would have given them three days 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:53.000 to say, hey, everybody was CCTV footage from around this area, 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:56.520 we need to see it now. Well, they might not 0:12:56.600 --> 0:13:01.160 have discovered the footage. They may have gotten the footage 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:03.720 and then had to comb through it, and by the 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:06.760 time they combed through it and found him, it had 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:11.439 already passed seven day they pull they got all the footage, 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:13.920 and then when they've gotten the chance to finally go 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:16.720 through it all and figured out he was there several days, 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.360 he passed and it was too late. Yeah. The the 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:22.960 way that I always read it is that on the 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.040 seven day they found these three frames. So you know, 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.640 to me, again, it's one of the tiny, little frustrating 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.320 things about this case that it's like, well, come on, guys, 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:34.960 just would have been nice that it would have been 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.439 It would have probably solved a lot of this stuff. Yeah, 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:40.360 they at least preserve something for say, or even a 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:43.280 couple hundred yards around the station, you know, I mean, 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:45.040 that would be that would have been nice. Well, I guess, 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:47.320 I guess The question really for me is that it 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.800 always took them three days to find out that Andrew 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:53.560 was headed to King's Cross, So why weren't they immediately saying, oh, 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:56.200 there's a lot of CCTV around there, we should probably 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.640 look at it three days later when there's definitely no 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.280 chance of it ever having been wiped. Well, now when 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.480 did the when did the rail employee come forward? Three 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:09.280 days later? The tuesdays? Yeah, yeah, so that would have 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.480 been probably would have been there. Yeah, But I don't 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:16.520 what I Okay, I know that London is one of 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:20.520 the most surveiled cities out there, but I don't know 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:25.320 that all of the CCTV systems are operated by the 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.840 same organizations, they may have different time frames for how 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.000 long they keep their data, you know what I'm saying, 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.480 Like one group may say we only keep a week's 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:38.400 worth and then we start recycling. Real station might have 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:40.200 been the one who said, well, we keep it long term, 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:42.640 and that's the only way they dug it up, although 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:44.760 I don't know for me. Again, it's the three days. 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:48.880 Why why three days did they not just say, hey, everyone, 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:53.080 this might be helpful. There's a guy on one web 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.760 page that I suspect he was British. He said said, 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.040 with all these all these orwelly and cameras all over 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.000 the place, and they still can't get any useful information, 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.960 why do we have this crap? Yeah, I mean that's 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:07.440 that's such a good point up. Yeah. Uh. Most people say, 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:09.520 and I've never been to King's Cross station, and I 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.960 don't have a good sense of where these three frames 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.440 are taking place or anything like that, but they say 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:18.440 that it vaguely looks like Andrew's headed to the area 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:21.040 where you would pick up a taxi out of King's Cross, 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.720 But also taxis go on the streets, so it's also 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.240 possible he was just exiting to the street well, as 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.480 you say, tube stations always just spill right out onto 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:33.920 the streets, So it's hard to draw a much from absolutely. Yeah, 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:37.160 but you'll see that around and it does kind of 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.440 pertain to some of the theories that are out there. 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.200 There are some oddities in this case, and we're just 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.280 gonna bullet point them out because they think that's the 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.680 easiest way to approach them. One of them was the 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.360 CCTV that we've already covered. Another one is that Andrew 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.920 had about a hundred pounds in cash that he'd been 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:58.520 given for various holidays that was found left in his room. 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.320 So for me, that's kind of a big question mark, 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.240 especially if he withdrew all of the money from his 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:10.160 savings account. Why wouldn't you take that extra hundred pounds. Well, 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:12.360 I think that it did all of the money you 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:14.840 could possibly get your hands on. Yeah, it does kind 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.000 of shoot a hole in the theory that he left 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.320 to start a new life theory. Yeah, that would that 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:20.760 would be silly that you would only do it with 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:22.520 two hundred pounds. If you could have three hundred pounds, 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:24.000 why not. I don't and I don't mean to give 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.360 away our secret theories, but as everybody knows by now. 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:30.960 Anytime somebody disappears, that's a theory from age two upward. It's, oh, yeah, 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:35.320 he crawled out to start a new life two years old. Yeah, yeah, 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:39.520 so you know that things would be. The next kind 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.880 of oddity I guess is that Andrew might have had 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.000 a cell phone. I was never really clear on if 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:46.440 he had a cell phone or not, because I did 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.880 see something saying that he never really used his phone. 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:51.600 But I also saw a lot of stuff saying that 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:53.600 he didn't have a cell phone. So I was looking 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:55.640 at the stuff from the family site this morning and 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:59.320 it said he didn't. Okay, great, that that makes things 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.800 a little easier. Um, But he he did have access 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:05.320 to a computer again, and not clear. I think there 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:07.680 was a computer in his room. That was the sense 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:11.160 that I had, But again I don't know that for sure. 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:15.399 I guess I just assumed that because I don't know's 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.359 it was two thousand seven, that's about when kids started 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:20.280 kind of locking themselves in their rooms and chatting to 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:23.160 people online and things like that. But I don't know. 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.040 I got the impression it was a shared family computer. 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:30.040 But yeah, that's also possible. Again, he just definitely had 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.520 access to a computer. For sure. The investigators did search 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:35.800 that computer and they found nothing. By the way, why 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:37.840 their computers at school and a school that you want 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:43.040 to Yes, but they also searched those, but also leave 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:45.639 and now I know, I know the public libraries here, 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.400 at least here in the States all have lots of computers. Yeah, 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.720 I mean it's tricky because in two thousand seven, I mean, 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:56.840 computers were pretty prevalent, but still not. They were still everywhere. 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:02.000 I mean they were boxes, they were yeah, and it 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:05.280 was all like everywhere. Yeah, that's true. I have a 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:09.680 hard time remembering two thousand seven. Now there there would 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:13.320 have been computers everywhere, computers everywhere. I was in college 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:17.320 in two thousand seven. Yes, yes, But to answer your question, Joe, 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.520 I would imagine that there would be computers in their library, 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:23.560 But I don't. I don't know to what degree. I mean, 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:25.960 like now I go to the library here and there 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:30.639 everything almost ten years ago there was three to a 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:34.879 floor or something like that got a lot cheaper for 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:38.639 one time. Yeah, they have well, and so they the 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.520 investigators said they didn't find anything, and they did have 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:45.199 their computer forensic guys whatever you want to call that. 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:47.200 I know they went through, so it wasn't just some 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:51.840 cop clicking through the back button on the browser. Yeah. Yeah, 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:55.200 but I mean, okay, so private browsing was around as 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:58.040 early as two thousand five. Tour networks have been around forever. 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:00.399 Andrew was a really bright kid, and he was a 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:03.280 teenage boy, so it's super likely that he knew how 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:07.520 to keep his browsing history private. Well, you probably want 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:10.040 to do that, even if you have your own computer, 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:15.160 I would say, yes. Yeah, Steve looks like he's concerned 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:18.159 about this. Well, I I am. There's some things about 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:22.160 the descriptions of Andrew in general that I think twist 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:25.240 this story, and so I'm really concerned. When you say 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:27.920 it's super likely that he knew how to do that, 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:31.040 he may have, he may not have. I mean, it's 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:36.080 it's a fifty split me. I guess I'm saying that, like, 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.240 in the scope of fourteen year olds in this world, 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:43.000 he is on the much more likely spectrum of knowing 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:45.439 how to do things like that than say, I don't know, 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:49.760 a fourteen year old girl in suburban Midwest. I don't 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:55.520 think that's true. Actually, that is dumb. I don't know. 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:59.880 I mean, he wouldn't have it. But I don't want 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.680 I don't want to cast it as he was a 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.120 computer genius. No, I don't. I don't want to cast 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:07.280 it that way either, But I just he he was 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.760 a smart young man. Yes, we actually that we actually 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:14.119 really know nothing about. Yeah, that's where I'm always like, 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:17.119 I feel like we're walking this weird edge with the 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:21.000 descriptions of him because we've got so little. Yeah, I 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:23.879 I he was just a smart young man. And my 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:28.280 understanding of fourteen year old boys and they're they're browsing habits. 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:30.080 Are that something that you might want to keep from 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:34.440 your parents? You would like how to hide that pretty quick? Probably? Yeah. Yeah, 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:36.640 when I was fourteen, I didn't have any browsing habits. 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:39.240 You did, Actually it was like called free hbo or 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:44.480 something like that. Yeah, like hit him under the mattress. Yeah, 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:51.720 like the Victoria's Secret ads you get, Yeah, Dad's playboys anyway. 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:56.840 So yeah, I will agree with you that it may 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:59.239 be overstating, but I will also say that he was 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:02.200 a smart for funeral boye, so he probably knew whether 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:03.840 it was to the extent that it could be hit 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.520 in front, you know, because private browsing there's still a 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:08.479 record of that. You can still find stuff like that 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:12.760 if you're a computer forensic scientist. So can we do 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:16.080 you mind if at this point we go into something else, 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:18.879 which is some of the descriptions of Andrew that I'm 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:21.359 I really have been concerned about everywhere I've read it, 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:27.640 which is that he's a math genius. Again, everything says 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.200