1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: By no means as well known as the Sonoran or 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: Mohave Deserts. The Chihuahuan Desert nonetheless is responsible for giving 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: at least a piece of Texas a claim to being Western. 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: I'm Dan Flores, and this is the American West, Big 5 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: Ben and the. 6 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: Deserts of the West. 7 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: It's three am on a January first, and I'm about 8 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: as far southward in North America as one can get 9 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: and still be in the United States. 10 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 2: Where would that be? 11 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: Well, I'm somewhere outside the crumbling, rock, ruined dirt street 12 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: town of Turtling, just west of famed Big Ben National Park. 13 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: I'm in the midst of a thronging post New Year's Eve, 14 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: soare to be honest, and the party that never ends 15 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: is holding forth this night at the refurbished old Terlingua bordello, 16 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:21,119 Speaker 1: basically in adobe cavity with a cement floor and tin 17 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: roof topped off by a red signal light from a 18 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: train crossing. This is New Year's Eve in trans Pacas, Texas, 19 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: with real old Texas Rangers in string ties, what appears 20 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: to be a buffalo Bill Cody clone, someone else decked 21 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: out as cactus ed abbey and someone else who may 22 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 1: actually be free wheeling Franklin from the Fabulous Furry Freak 23 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: Brothers comic books. Everyone is two stepping alongside ut hippies 24 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: from Austin River, runners out of Montana, Mexicans from across 25 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: the nearby Rio Grand Park service rangers and partial uniform, 26 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: a delicate new ager or two, a photographer from Texas 27 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: Monthly magazine, and the cowboy flotsam from a slew of 28 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 1: local bunkhouses. 29 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 2: There are several truly. 30 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: Beautiful women sipping freshly distilled satole and mescal, as a 31 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: friend puts it, with true Texas elegance. 32 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 2: Just a whole buttload of people. 33 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: And there's music, of course, guitars, banjos, a mandolin and 34 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: accordion laying down rhythm. 35 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 2: And it's rollicking. 36 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: Across the desert so joyously and distinctively regional that local 37 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: coyote packs in every direction are joining in. It's either 38 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: too late or too early to think hard about such things. 39 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: But having spent the past week backpacking the South Grim 40 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: Trail and Big Ben's Chisos Mountains, rafting the length of 41 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: the Rio Granze, Santa Elena Canyon, and car camping in 42 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: my jeep down fifty five four wheeler miles of. 43 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:58,559 Speaker 2: The river road. 44 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,399 Speaker 1: To me, the scene appears to be the purest expression 45 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: of a Western soul you're likely to find in Texas, 46 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: at least since the Armadilla World Headquarters closed in Austin 47 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen eighties. Where else in Texas for 48 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: such a thing, but way down here in the so 49 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:23,799 Speaker 1: called transpac Us, the downward plunging piece of this gigantic 50 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: state that actually has enough public lands to qualify as 51 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: a part of. 52 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 2: The modern West. 53 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: Why here for such a thing and nowhere else because 54 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: of the enveloping desert. All who visit will agree this 55 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: part of Texas is Western because of public lands. And 56 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: these public lands exist because of this immense, mystical slice 57 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: of America, that is the Chihuahuan Desert, which sprawls in 58 00:03:55,720 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: every direction around us. The desert, of course, cause an 59 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: animating effect here. All followed from a condition of desertness, 60 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: This unlikely crowd is joined here tonight, drinking the deserts juices, 61 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: ingesting its flesh, a goog at its dark sky, stars, 62 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: enraptured with its stories, dancing to music inspired by rock 63 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: and sun. Because the desert produced big Bend National Park 64 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: and its state park sister Big Ben Ranch that left 65 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: this part of Texas a wonderland open for human adventure. 66 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: There are many kinds of landscape settings to celebrate in 67 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: the West, from alpine lake shores to towering redwoods, from 68 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: Pacific beaches with salt breezes to play badlands. But if 69 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: one of the defining characteristics of the West is aridity, 70 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: the deserts get us to that apotheosis Western effect sooner 71 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: than any other ecologies. It's maybe not an exaggeration to 72 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: say that we are living in an age of a 73 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: desert esthetic, even a desert chek. Some of us these 74 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: days have grown up with romantic notions about suarro studded 75 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: mountains bathed in neon sunsets, which may be an emerging 76 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: landscape shorthand for the West in the eyes of the 77 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: wider world. 78 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 2: Of course, if a. 79 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: Desert mystique does exist, it must be a recently acquired 80 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: taste for its opposite. Revulsion and even fear at the 81 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: desert's barrenness and weather extremes can still flirt about the 82 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 1: edges of the mind. 83 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 2: Think about it. 84 00:05:55,920 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: Remove the invention of air conditioning from the palm Las 85 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: Vegas and Phoenix equations, and no more Palm Springs, Vegas 86 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: or Phoenix. 87 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 2: The desert I want. 88 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: To talk about now is a specific one, the Chihuahuan Desert, 89 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: which is the largest desert in North America, stretching a 90 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: thousand miles from Mexico's arts tourist town of San Luis 91 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:31,799 Speaker 1: de Poto Sea across six Mexican states before finally lapping 92 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: across the Rio Grande to reach almost as far north 93 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 1: as Albuquerque. Despite its vast size and penetration into the US, 94 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: the Chihuahuan is the least known and understood of all 95 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: the West deserts. The famous American desert cities Palm Springs, Vegas, Phoenix, 96 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: Tucson are not here, hidden away in the far tip 97 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: of Texas. Boat El Paso, which Texas clearly stole from 98 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: New Mexico, is the only large American city in this desert. 99 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: The Texas towns it harbors, Marathon, Marfa, Alpine, Presidio, Terlingua 100 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: are interesting and eccentric, but barely known outside the state. 101 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: In New Mexico, the only Chihuan desert towns of any 102 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: size Carlsbad, Socorro, Las Cruces, Silver city, one with the 103 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: unlikely name of Truth or Consequences, exists in the bottom 104 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: of a Western state. Many Americans think you need a 105 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: passport to visit so oddly, given its geographic sweep and 106 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: the fact that it's the only American desert that lies 107 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: east of the Continental Divide, the Chihuahuan is not a 108 00:07:55,000 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: famous Western desert except among Texans, which means there's a 109 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: story here. The Sonora Desert, which also reaches northward up 110 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: from Mexico because of Tucson and especially Phoenix, a giant 111 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: American city with professional and big time college sports teams 112 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: and more golf courses than many entire states have, is 113 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: far better known in America's winters. Phoenix functions like a 114 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: deep sink western version of Florida. The Sonora Desert gets 115 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 1: press and media attention. The Sonora is the only American 116 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: desert to possess the towering cactus that says Western desert 117 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: to people everywhere. The giant soorro is not found in 118 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: the West. Coal deserts like the scablands of eastern Washington, 119 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: the sagebrush flats of the Wyoming Basin and the Great 120 00:08:54,280 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: Basin are the Colorado Plateau giant souarros don't even extend 121 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: and into the Mohave Desert. This ultimate cactus is found 122 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:12,559 Speaker 1: only in the Sonoran. Despite similar unimpeachable hot desert qualifications 123 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: and a shared border with the Sonoran, the Chihuahuan Desert 124 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: likewise entirely lacks soarrows. One of the remarkable features of 125 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,959 Speaker 1: the ecotone where the Sonoran and Chiuahuan deserts meet, readily 126 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: visible at a spot called Texas Pass on Interstate ten 127 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: in southeastern Arizona, is the presence of sowaro cactus on 128 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: the west side of the pass, but none to the east, 129 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 1: where Chihuahuan species take hold. Like other deserts, the Chihuahuan 130 00:09:54,840 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: does have a diagnostic plant species, though it's called the 131 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: agavi lechigea. In contrast to twenty five foot tall many limbs, 132 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: sowaros letchigeas grow like clumps of sharp bananas, the clumps 133 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: reaching maybe eighteen inches high. That, in fact, may explain 134 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: something about the anonymity of the Chihuahuan desert compared to 135 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: the West's more famous ones. Travel to Phoenix and hike 136 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: the Maricopa Trail or visit one of the units of 137 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: Sooro National Park near Tucson, and you're in a forest 138 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: of souarros soaring up around you like cactus redwoods. Head 139 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,679 Speaker 1: west from Las Vegas into Red Rock Canyon State Park. 140 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: Are east from Palm Springs, California to Joshua Tree National Park, 141 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: both in the Mohave Desert, and you're walking through a 142 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: remarkable and impressive desert overstory of twenty foot tall Joshua 143 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: trees that resemble yuck sprays perched on top of branched 144 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: tree trunks. 145 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 2: Go to the Chihuahuan Desert. 146 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 1: And your characteristic plant is a banana plump succulent that 147 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: doesn't reach to your knees. Not so memorable, which may 148 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: explain why as deserts go, the name Chihuahuan doesn't trip 149 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: neon lights in the larger American imagination. But if you 150 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: take the time to learn and know and appreciate this 151 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: American desert, it very likely is going to worm under 152 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: your skin with a mystical desert infection. That virus light 153 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: will lodge somewhere deep inside and never leave myself. I 154 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: got infected by the Chihuahuan desert thirty years ago. 155 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 2: It's never given me up. 156 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: We humans apparently have always been susceptible to desert power, 157 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: although we didn't in deserts. The desert was always out 158 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: there on the margins, resisting us with its aridity, but 159 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: compelling us with the strange music of its effects on 160 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: life and topography. The desert is both presence and character 161 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: in the sacred texts of the Western world, the Koran 162 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: and the Bible. In the Bible, the desert is lodged 163 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: like a knod in wood, as a sacred setting where 164 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 1: Jesus of Nazareth tested himself. It's the ultimate unconquerable wilderness, 165 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: the antithesis of the Garden of Eden. Before the fall, 166 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: rippling out of North Africa. Across the Mediterranean, sun and 167 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: dry air and blue sky called, and painters and writers 168 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: and mystics went. In the American West, a similar desert 169 00:12:54,240 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: muse pulled Earnest Blumenshine and Nikolai Fetchen, Georgia and Andrew 170 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:07,319 Speaker 1: Dasberg to New Mexico's Desert Ara a century ago an 171 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: American West desert taxonomy. It was a naturalist named Forrest 172 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: Shreve who first recognized a distinctive desert in the Southwest. 173 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: He named the Chihuahuan, given the state of desert intoxication today, 174 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: is pretty intriguing to burrow a bit and to what 175 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: we thought of the Chihuahuan back then, back in the day. 176 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: One really good way to get at that is through 177 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: the eyes of American explorers, And there is one a 178 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:43,079 Speaker 1: man named Robert Hill, who penetrated the Chihuahuan desert by 179 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 1: doing exactly what many. 180 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 2: People do today. 181 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: Well over a century ago, Hill passed along the far 182 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: southern border of the United States by floating the great river, 183 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,719 Speaker 1: the Rio Grande, through the suite of spectacular canyons that 184 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: carves into the country that in our time has become 185 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 1: Big Band National Park. So far as man's conception of 186 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: time is concerned, the American Desert is, always has been, 187 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: and always will be. So said Robert Hill to begin 188 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: the article he wrote about his trip, which is not 189 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: a bad opening line from a geologist. But Robert Hill 190 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: was not ordinary, and neither was the desert he was 191 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: writing about. A native of Tennessee, Hill had come to 192 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: Texas as a young man, become fascinated with the study 193 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: of geology, and ended up getting a degree in that 194 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: field from Cornell University. Although he was briefly on the 195 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: faculty of the University of Texas. 196 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,359 Speaker 2: By eighteen eighty five. 197 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: Hill had gone to work for John Wesley Powell at 198 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: the United States Geological Survey and on to a quite 199 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: prestigious career as a geologist, eventually working on projects like 200 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: the Panama Canal. As an example of the American mind 201 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: caught in the crossfire of changing ideas about Western deserts, 202 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: Hill's account of this first official exploration of the Chihuahuan 203 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: Desert is almost as perfect as a circle. In order 204 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: to emulate what Powell had done on the Colorado River, 205 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: Hill was dispatched by the Geological Survey to investigate frontier 206 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: rumors that on its way from the Colorado Rockies to 207 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: the salt flats of the Gulf of Mexico at its 208 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: most southerly loop, the Rio Grande contained canyons as frightening 209 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: as those of the Grand Canyon. The year was eighteen 210 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: ninety nine. The reaction of Americans to deserts at the 211 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: time was still pretty much revulsion. Desert country was the 212 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: antithesis of the green, wet, lush landscapes old worlders had 213 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: settled in the East, a promise of which had sent 214 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: many of the first American settlers going west. 215 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 2: To places like Oregon. 216 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: Hills running the canyons of the Rio Grande appeared in 217 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: the Century magazine years ago. At a book fair somewhere, 218 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: I picked up a battered, surviving copy, then went to 219 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: a bar and devoured hills account to the accompaniment of 220 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: a couple of margaritas. The magazine's eighteen ninety nine layout 221 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: of Hill's piece of exploring was pretty damn sensational, with 222 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: seven half toned plates of downright beautiful drawings by legendary 223 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: painter Thomas Moran, whose art of Yellowstone in the early 224 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: eighteen seventies had almost guaranteed the creation of the world's 225 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: first national park. 226 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: While a bar is not a bad. 227 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 1: Place to sit back and lose yourself in Hell's story, 228 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: I'd now argue that maybe the best way to read 229 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: this early Chihuahuan desert impression is to take it to 230 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: Big Bend Park, hike far enough into the Chisos Mountains 231 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: to find an alligator juniper for a backrest and a 232 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: bit of shade. Then dig your feet into the ground 233 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: for balance, because Hill's account is about to carry you 234 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: on America's whiplashing perceptions about deserts a century ago. Hill's 235 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: party of six, loaded into three John boats, started their 236 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: long journey into the unknown, as they put it, at 237 00:17:53,800 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: the border town of Presidio on October fifth, eighteen ninety nine. 238 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 1: Hill was not the first to descend these now famous 239 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: canyons of the Texas Mexico border. During a low ebb 240 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: in his career. In eighteen fifty five, that painter of 241 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: Western Indians, George Catlin apparently floated through the Middle Rio 242 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: Grands dramatic canyons. In eighteen eighty one, eighty two, Texas 243 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: ranger Charles Neville ricocheted through Santa Alena Canyon on a 244 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: winter adventure. Local James McMahon, whom Hill would hire as 245 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: a guide, said he had been through the canyons three times, 246 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: but in the eighteen fifties, the Mexican Boundary Survey had 247 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: seen its boats destroyed in the Second Big Canyon Mariscom 248 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: and had then pronounced all of the Middle Rio Grand 249 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: canyons impassable. When Hill's party arrived on the scene, the 250 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 1: canyons were officially listed as NX. Lord Hill obviously felt 251 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: the mystical pull of deserts with his essays opening line 252 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: about timelessness, but he quickly reverted to the more general 253 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: distaste Americans felt. Every aspect of the Big Bend Country landscape, configuration, rocks, 254 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: and vegetation, he said, is weird and strange, and of 255 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: a type unfamiliar to the inhabitants of civilized lands. The 256 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: basins between the desert mountains were covered with what He'll 257 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:42,959 Speaker 1: called a spiteful, repulsive vegetation. What was there were the 258 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: cone shaped sprays of lechuguias and agavi's, and sotoles and yuccas, 259 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: some of the latter in near tree form. Cactus was everywhere, 260 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: of course, prickly perils and barrel cactus, and many armed 261 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: choyas of several sp pale green mesquite trees, and tens 262 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: of thousands millions actually of fragrant creosote bushes made up 263 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: the shrubs and have shrubs. The creosotes South American arrivals 264 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: here from only a few thousand years before that, lent 265 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: an intoxicating perfume to the desert. After rains, gnarled alligator 266 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: junipers grew on mountains like the chisos uplift, and cottonwoods 267 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: waved yellowing fall leaves right through the winter, and the 268 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: arrival of spring flowers. 269 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 2: How did Hill react to all this? All of it 270 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 2: was repulsive. 271 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: Okatillos with their showy red flowers, a plant now much 272 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: admired in all the deserts of the Southwest. He'll characterize 273 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 1: those as like serpents rising from a Hindu juggler's carpet. 274 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: At the time they reached the first of the Big 275 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: Band's canyons, the Colorado, a stone labyrinth that was about 276 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: to plunge the river through towering vertical slots without sun, 277 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: Hill continued to be shocked by what he called mocking 278 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: desert flora. But day by day experience with the desert 279 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 1: began to soften him, so soon he could speak of 280 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: coming to a valley which presents a beautiful panorama of 281 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: desert form and color. The hills are of all sizes 282 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: and shapes, dazzling white with vermilion foothills of red clay. 283 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: He wrote when the brown current carried their boats at 284 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: last into what he called the Grand Canyon, by which 285 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: he met Santa Elena Canyon via a narrow. 286 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 2: Vertical slit in the face of the escarpment. 287 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: Hill concluded that the solemnity and beauty of the spectacle 288 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: were overwhelming. These were the first references to beauty on 289 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: the expiration. 290 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 2: Even with his built in bias against. 291 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: Deserts, Hill it turned out, was capable of being moved 292 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: by the same scenes that thrill big band river runners 293 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: in our time. Hill's party portage the one major rapids 294 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: in Santa Atlena, the famous rocks line that took them 295 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: three days of misery, yet left them with an. 296 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 2: Impression of unusual beauty. 297 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: Hill said, particularly during the glorious moonlight, which is one 298 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: of the characteristics of the desert. From the rim Rock, 299 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: looking seventeen hundred feet down into Santa Alena, Hill couldn't 300 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: help himself. The view is grand, beyond all conception, he marveled. 301 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: Exiting through the staircase formations at Santa Elena Canyon's mouth, 302 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: Hill's party was now in what he called the Terlingo Desert, 303 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: and without the verticality of the canyon to admire, he 304 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: once more mustard classic desert revulsion. The Terlinguid Desert was 305 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: one of the most bizarre pieces of landscape that can 306 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: be imagined, he wrote, one of the hottest and most 307 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: sterile regions conceivable again, though the compensation was vertical. Looming 308 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: on the eastern horizon. Now were the Chisos Mountains, a 309 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: group of white clad spirits rising from a base of misty, 310 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: gray shadow and vegetation. 311 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 2: Hill said. 312 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: Dead ahead on the Rio Grande was Mariscol Canyon, whereas 313 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: Hill put it, the river presented the appearance of apparently 314 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: plunging into a seething hole without a visible outlet. Soon 315 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: they were through Meriscol, though, floating past the hot springs 316 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: and approaching the village of Bochias on the Mexican side 317 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: of the river, a collection of what Hill called dirty 318 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: adobe huts. Now they were approaching Bochias Canyon, which Hill 319 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: thought better deserved the Appellachian brand than even Santa Elena, 320 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: as it was a place, as he said, of remarkable 321 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: forms of rock sculpture. 322 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 2: The moon was full while we. 323 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: Were in this canyon, he wrote, and the effects of 324 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: its illuminations were indescribably beautiful. Language cannot describe the beauty 325 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: of such nights. Exiting Bokias and their successful passage through water, 326 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: big Band National Parks, great river canyons, Hill found the 327 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 1: river now turning almost due north, a stretch of the 328 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: Rio Grand, known as the Lower Canyons today, a marvelous 329 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: descent along the Rio Grand National Wild and Scenic River. 330 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: Hill wrote that this lower course is almost a continuous 331 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: canyon to Del Rio, and from an esthetic point of view, 332 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: is even more picturesque and beautiful than the portion of 333 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: the river already described. In the clear air, they guessed 334 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: the cliffs were five hundred feet high, an actual ascent 335 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: proved them to be one thousand, six. 336 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 2: Hundred and fifty feet. 337 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: They found more hot springs and many forms, as Hill wrote, 338 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: like the bad lands of Dakota. In their last run 339 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: before the Devil River entered the Rio Grand, Hill was 340 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: overcome by what he said were some of the most 341 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: beautiful and picturesque effects, where the canyon walls were pure, 342 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: purest white, which weathers into great curves. It had taken 343 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: a full month of exposure to the desert, but eventually 344 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: the words weird, repulsive, spiteful, bizarre, and sterile all disappeared 345 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: from Robert Hill's vocabulary. In that subtle and simple alteration 346 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: in language, Hill had vaulted a gulf. The Chihuahuan Desert 347 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 1: might remain a difficult place for Americans to imagine as home. 348 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 2: But Hill's experience. 349 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: Showed that the desert was a place Americans could began 350 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: to think about in an entirely new way. The Western 351 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: deserts were not the East. They were not the Midwest 352 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: or the South or Oregon. They were different from all 353 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: those places, different even one from the other. But deserts 354 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: possessed a magic of light and form that was powerful, 355 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: one that couldn't be denied. Deserts were capable of stirring 356 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 1: the soul the Western desert to do something else in 357 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: the form of national parks. They've offered up public lands 358 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: possibilities to keep their magic alive and available. The Mojave 359 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: Desert landed its major public lands feature Joshua Tree National Park, 360 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: now a monstrous seven hundred and ninety five thousand acres, 361 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty six. Six national parks, five of them 362 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: in southern Utah, plus Grand Canyon National Park in Arizona, 363 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: preserve the deserts of the Colorado Plateau. Great Basin National 364 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 1: Park was established around an island mountain range of seventy 365 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: seven thousand acres in nineteen eighty six. Oregon Pipe Cactus 366 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: National Monument, established in nineteen thirty seven, was the initial 367 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: large Sonoran Desert preserve a cactus faeryland of three hundred 368 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: and thirty one thousand acres. Two units of Sowaro National Park, 369 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: set aside in nineteen ninety four, offer up ninety two 370 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: thousand acres of Sonoran Sowaro Mountains and basins bracketing Tucson. 371 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: The Chihuahuan Desert, whose crowning expression lies in that southerly 372 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: plunge of the US map known as the Big Bend Country, 373 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: has inspired major set asides of public land. 374 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 2: Too, But because the Chihuahuan is east. 375 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: Of the Continental Divide, with a large part of its 376 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: expanse in Texas, this desert has a different story. 377 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 2: In neighboring New Mexico. 378 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: Significant pieces of the Chihuahuan emerged as parks and national 379 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: monuments fairly early. Eastern New Mexico's Carlsbad Caverns National Park, 380 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: set aside because of its almost one hundred and twenty 381 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: limestone caves, opened as a park in nineteen thirty. The 382 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: forty seven thousand acres of Carlsbad does preserve an impressive 383 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: slice of desert landscape, though three quarters of. 384 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 2: Which is now official wilderness. 385 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: Westward in New Mexico White Sands National Park is one 386 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty thousand acres of rippling snow white gypsum, 387 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: a fast dune field in the midst of the Chihuahuan. 388 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: Originally established as a national monument in nineteen thirty three, 389 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: White Sands National Park designation is recent twenty nineteen. The 390 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: most typical and I think the most stunning Chihuahuan desert 391 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: creation in New Mexico is also recent. The fast four 392 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: hundred and ninety six thousand acres of Oregon Mountains Desert 393 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: Peaks National Monument, half of which is official wilderness, is 394 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: near Las Cruces in the south of the state. Its 395 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: birth was in twenty fourteen. That leaves the huge sweep 396 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: of the Chihuahuan across southwestern Texas to account for. And 397 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: as I explained in episode twenty two of The American West, 398 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: Texas has a history that left it almost entirely without 399 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: federal land ownership. Not only did the state never experience 400 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: the public lands creations that typify the West, Texas very 401 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: consciously privatized virtually every foot of its territory, including even 402 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: the deserts and mountains of the Big ben Country. Raised 403 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: in the Deep South myself, and with the experience of 404 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: living for almost a quarter century in Texas, I think 405 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,959 Speaker 1: I recognized Texas's situation with respect to the modern West. 406 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: Texas is the South's West, like Georgia or the Carolinas. 407 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: Texas removed all its native tribes from the state beyond 408 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: the hundredth meridian. Texas possesses landscapes that are geologically and 409 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: ecologically Western, but the southern roots of its citizenry made 410 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: it difficult for Texas to think in terms of public values. 411 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 2: When it came to land. 412 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: Land was for owning, fencing, and keeping everybody else out, 413 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: and therein. 414 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 2: Is a problem. 415 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: It's not possible to overemphasize how necessary it is for 416 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: people to be able to experience the landscapes of their place. 417 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: There's no route to becoming a native of place without it, 418 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: no way to develop a sense of the fundamental world, 419 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: the natural community of plants and animals of which you're apart. 420 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: For that, you have to have the full five cents 421 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: experience of direct contact, which is why the Big Band 422 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: of the Chihuahuan Desert is so important for all Westerners, 423 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: for all Americans, but especially so for Texas. Here's how 424 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: Big Band changed Texas by every right. One of our 425 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: revered Western heroes ought to be a federal official named 426 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: Roger Toll, whose name adorns a mountain in Big Band 427 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: National Park but is otherwise almost anonymous in Western history. 428 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: Toll was a park serve man, an experienced superintendent who'd 429 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: headed up Yellowstone, Rocky Mountain, and Mount Rinier National Parks. 430 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: He was born in Denver, and with public lands out 431 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: of the door, he'd climbed mountains fifty peaks in Rocky 432 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: Mountain National Park alone. Meanwhile, in Texas in the nineteen thirties, 433 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: there were a handful of national legislators who thought such 434 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: a grand state shouldn't be left out in the creation 435 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: of crown jewel national parks. So Roger told journey to 436 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: Texas and evaluated seven potential sites for national park or 437 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: monument status. His conclusion was that if Texas were willing 438 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: to acquire the lands, since at the time the National 439 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: Park Service had no budget to. 440 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 2: Buy private lands. 441 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: There were at least three nationally important landscapes in the state, 442 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: and the Davis Mountains also in the Transpacos, and a 443 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: canyon called McKittrick in a range split between Texas and 444 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:14,879 Speaker 1: New Mexico known as the Guadalupe Mountains. All three were 445 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: Chihuahuan desert landscapes in the only part of Texas with 446 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: topography on the scale of the rest of the American West. 447 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,240 Speaker 1: In effect, Roger Toll had put his finger on three 448 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: potential sacred places in the Texas Southwest, charmed particularly by 449 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 1: Big Ben, which he thought one of the noted scenic 450 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 1: spectacles of the United States. Toll, in nineteen thirty six 451 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: was in the process of drawing up a map of 452 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:52,840 Speaker 1: possible Big Bend Park boundaries when he was tragically killed 453 00:34:52,960 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 1: in a car accident near Deming, New Mexico. Building on 454 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: tolls legacy, the Texas Democratic Convention made it part of 455 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 1: their platform that, for reasons of lone Star pride, the 456 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: states should seek at least one national park, and it 457 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: was clear that Toll's first pick was Big Ben and 458 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: the canyons of the Rio Grande equally critical. Since this 459 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: was during the Great Depression, creation of a Big Bend 460 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: Park would serve as a federal bailout of pioneer ranchers 461 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 1: whose cattle had devastated the fragile desert grasslands. In little 462 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: more than three decades of grazing. Some of them were 463 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: already letting their lands go back to the state in 464 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:51,959 Speaker 1: lieu of paying taxes. Then, the Texas bottom line set 465 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: in the New Deal of the nineteen thirties represented a 466 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:01,320 Speaker 1: first rising tide of conservative distrust us of the federal 467 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 1: government in the state. The National Park Service planners wanted 468 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: a one point five million acre park, with unsold Texas 469 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,879 Speaker 1: school lands in the desert going for a penny an acre. Then, 470 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 1: the total purchase price for that much of the big 471 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: Band was a measly one and. 472 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 2: A half million dollars. 473 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:29,760 Speaker 1: Yet the Texas legislature and Governor James Alread refused throughout 474 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:34,280 Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties to appropriate the money to acquire the land. 475 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: A citizen's effort to raise money for the National Park, 476 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 1: like the ones that were at the very same time 477 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 1: creating Acadia and Smoky Mountains National Parks in the East 478 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: and Texas, netted the munificent sum of eighty three hundred 479 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: and forty seven dollars. It required nearly a decade of 480 00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:01,760 Speaker 1: President Franklin Roosevelt's entreaties, but finally in nineteen forty seven, 481 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: Texas transferred at least half the land the Park Service 482 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: wanted seven hundred and eight thousand acres to. 483 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 2: The federal government. 484 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: Once park personnel evicted twenty five thousand cattle, eighteen thousand goats, 485 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: eight thousand sheep, and one thousand horses. 486 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 2: Big Bend today an. 487 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: International Biosphere Reserve of eight hundred and one thousand acres, 488 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: an International Dark Skies Park, and the most dramatic desert 489 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: park in America, finally open to the public because of 490 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 1: Big Band's remoteness, Even today it struggles to attract visitors 491 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,280 Speaker 1: from other states. The park has been a game changer 492 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: for Texans. It's made tiny towns like Alpine and Marfa, 493 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: Marathon and Terlingua destinations for artists, photographers, nature lovers of 494 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: all kinds. Because access to the natural world does things 495 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: like this, Big Bend and the Chihuahuan Desert inspired a 496 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: cultural byproduct now known as Texas Regionalism, an arts movement 497 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: begun by painters Jerry Bywaters, Alexander Hog, William Lester, and 498 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: Otis Doser. They and the scores who followed them were 499 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: entrance enough by the desert to create what they called 500 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,840 Speaker 1: an Art of the Southwest for the Southwest. The Big 501 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,439 Speaker 1: Band effect has been a thing for a while now. 502 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: Once I sat sipping coffee at the mouth of Santa 503 00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 1: Elena Canyon at dawn on New Year's Day and watched 504 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: Texas music legend Butch Hancock rowe then Governor Ann Richardson 505 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: out of the depths of the Gorge into the sunlight 506 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 1: of the Turlingua Desert. The Big Band effect is very 507 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,359 Speaker 1: much alive in the present moment, somehow in one of 508 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 1: the reddest of all Republican states, Texas, conservatives and liberals, 509 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 1: ranchers and tree huggers stand in agreement. There absolutely should 510 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:36,880 Speaker 1: not be, cannot be a border wall built in Big 511 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: Ben National Park. Big Band Park presently has no official 512 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 1: wilderness designated, but former Big Band Superintendent Bob Krubenaker is 513 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: presently leading a campaign to change that too, that Trio 514 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: of Texas Chihuahuan Desert places Roger Toll had recommended in 515 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:00,200 Speaker 1: the nineteen. 516 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 2: Well. 517 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 1: Despite the grand Dark Sky astronomical events now held at 518 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: the famed McDonald Observatory, the beautiful Davis Mountains and its 519 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,720 Speaker 1: crowning peak, Mount Livermore, the second highest in the state, 520 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: has never become a national park, and unless widespread Texas 521 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: hatred of federal projects somehow magically evaporates. That's not likely 522 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: ever to happen. When Lyndon Johnson was president, though, his 523 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: wounded state pride about Texas's lack of national parks set 524 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 1: Interior Secretary of Stuart Yodall back to the Chihuahuan Desert. 525 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 1: I was once lucky enough to breakfast with You'dahl and 526 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 1: got to ask him about his reaction to Tull's third choice. 527 00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: The Guadaloupe Mountains, a range of desert canyons and pinnacles 528 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,479 Speaker 1: lapping against the New Mexico border that make up eight 529 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 1: of the ten highest peaks in Texas, including the highest one. 530 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,360 Speaker 2: That place just bowled me over. 531 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:19,799 Speaker 1: You'd all told me that transparent desert air al capitain 532 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 1: looming like the prow of a ship and visible from 533 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:24,360 Speaker 1: one hundred miles away. 534 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 2: And that canyon, what is it? McKittrick, My lord, what 535 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,600 Speaker 2: a paradise that place is. 536 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 1: There was just no question in my mind it was 537 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: a National park class landscape. By now, the National Park 538 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:45,839 Speaker 1: Service did have an acquisition budget, so McKittrick Canyon and 539 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: the Guadaloupe Mountains became g Waterloopy Mountains National Park in 540 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:56,719 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six. It's eighty six thousand acres of Chihuahuan 541 00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 1: Desert open to the public in nineteen seven two, And 542 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 1: in the words of the late Austin music icon Kinky Friedman, 543 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: this Grand Chihuahuan Desert part continues to this day to 544 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:23,399 Speaker 1: offer the highest high in Texas. Dan. 545 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 3: In this episode, you're talking about deserts, and specifically the 546 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:34,680 Speaker 3: Chihuahua Desert. I'll admit, as a child of the Midwest, 547 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 3: I didn't think of deserts as being Obviously everyone's heard 548 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 3: of the Sahara Desert, but growing up, I didn't think 549 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:46,239 Speaker 3: about desert as being sort of discrete areas like the 550 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 3: Rocky Mountains or the Cascades or the Appalachians. 551 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 4: Yeah. 552 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,400 Speaker 3: I thought of deserts as just being sort of blank 553 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 3: spaces on the map. Right, And you point in this 554 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,320 Speaker 3: the beginning of this you get into the different ways 555 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:04,040 Speaker 3: that humans like, the long relationship that humans have to deserts, 556 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 3: sort of emotionally and intellectually and culturally. But I'll admit 557 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:13,640 Speaker 3: I took a class maybe my third year of undergrad 558 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 3: on the North American deserts, and what intrigued me about 559 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:23,320 Speaker 3: it was I wasn't really aware that there were multiple 560 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,759 Speaker 3: deserts to think about and differences between different deserts. And 561 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 3: here I'm just coming clean on my ignorance. But you 562 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:36,279 Speaker 3: obviously have had a long relationship with deserts as a 563 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 3: resident of Texas and time in New Mexico and all that. 564 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:44,920 Speaker 3: You think very carefully about particularities between these different landscapes 565 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,239 Speaker 3: and vegetation and all that. 566 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:50,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm something of a desert rat, I guess, and 567 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 1: have been for a long time. I can even date it. 568 00:43:54,600 --> 00:44:01,840 Speaker 1: I think my interest in deserts probably goes back to 569 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:08,920 Speaker 1: having started reading ed Abbey maybe in the early nineteen seventies, 570 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:14,960 Speaker 1: probably Desert Solitaire in particular, And at the time I 571 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 1: was I mean, I was fascinated by Western landscapes, but 572 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:22,239 Speaker 1: it was the rocky mountains that really intrigued me, and 573 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,400 Speaker 1: I had most of my trips to the west. I 574 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:30,239 Speaker 1: was still living in Louisiana at the time early seventies. 575 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,919 Speaker 1: Actually I was in Texas in graduate school then when 576 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 1: I was reading ed Abbey for the first time, and 577 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:43,080 Speaker 1: I was very much in mountains, and all my trips west, 578 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:48,640 Speaker 1: you know, were to the high fourteen footers of Colorado, 579 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:53,239 Speaker 1: or to the wind River Range in Wyoming or the 580 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 1: Snowy Range outside Laramie or something like that. So I 581 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,439 Speaker 1: spent most of my time thinking and driving around looking 582 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,080 Speaker 1: at mountains. But Abby kind of made me start paying 583 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:07,040 Speaker 1: attention to deserts. And then I ended up just by 584 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 1: virtue of where my university postings were, sort of being 585 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,279 Speaker 1: stuck in a part of the American West that was 586 00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:22,840 Speaker 1: more inclined to be arid and desert like, and you know, 587 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,040 Speaker 1: became fascinated with it all. 588 00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:27,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, you. 589 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,439 Speaker 3: In this episode you talk a lot about individual sort 590 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:34,120 Speaker 3: of conversion. 591 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,440 Speaker 4: I guess is a good a good word for it. 592 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:41,399 Speaker 3: You describe Hill, Yeah, Robert Hill, Robert Hill, going down 593 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:47,280 Speaker 3: the Rio Grande, and he begins by describing the desert 594 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:52,319 Speaker 3: in these terms of sort of mild horror and maybe 595 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:58,000 Speaker 3: discussed right. And over time you recognize that he or 596 00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,280 Speaker 3: you observe that he changes his description of the desert 597 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:05,840 Speaker 3: and he sort of begins to appreciate it. But it 598 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,720 Speaker 3: strikes me again and again throughout this that there's people 599 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,320 Speaker 3: have to be convinced of the desert's beauty and utility. 600 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:15,680 Speaker 3: I mean not utility is the right word, but it's 601 00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,879 Speaker 3: beauty and its values. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. 602 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,879 Speaker 3: The desert is not a place, particularly for people out 603 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 3: of the Western Europe Eastern American experience. 604 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:33,240 Speaker 1: The desert is something you have to develop a taste 605 00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:37,839 Speaker 1: for because it doesn't come naturally, I don't think, and 606 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:40,759 Speaker 1: you know, as I indicated a few minutes ago, it 607 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:44,239 Speaker 1: didn't really necessarily come naturally for me either. I mean, 608 00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:48,080 Speaker 1: a kid coming out of Louisiana, a desert seemed to 609 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:55,359 Speaker 1: be absolutely the antipode, the farthest difference from the kind 610 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,560 Speaker 1: of world that I grew up in, and that in itself, 611 00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:04,480 Speaker 1: I think was intriguing to me. I was probably fascinated 612 00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,920 Speaker 1: with deserts in the very beginning, because wow, this is 613 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,759 Speaker 1: such a base reversal from the kind of world that 614 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,360 Speaker 1: I grew up to. But I do think it's the 615 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:19,759 Speaker 1: desert mystique and fascination and it's very real. A lot 616 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:24,160 Speaker 1: of people very much experience it and are compelled by it, 617 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,960 Speaker 1: but it's something that you come to and you know, 618 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,120 Speaker 1: I also I mentioned in this script that one of 619 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,440 Speaker 1: the things that makes it possible to regard the desert 620 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:39,720 Speaker 1: as being this mystical kind of place is modern technology, 621 00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,640 Speaker 1: because without it without air conditioning. As we all know, 622 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,240 Speaker 1: everyone who has ever spent any time in Phoenix, for example, 623 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:51,200 Speaker 1: knows very well if air conditioning did not exist, Phoenix 624 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:56,560 Speaker 1: would not exist. It's a technological revolution in the twentieth 625 00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:01,960 Speaker 1: century with air conditioning and automobile in particular, that makes 626 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,319 Speaker 1: the desert, makes it possible for the desert to sort 627 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:10,200 Speaker 1: of put out its kind of magical hold over people. 628 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:14,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're riding a horse through that country and 629 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,560 Speaker 3: you're worried about your horse's next drink of water, it's 630 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,040 Speaker 3: hard to appreciate the aesthetics of this land, it's. 631 00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,480 Speaker 2: Hard to appreciate it. So it's a part of the West. 632 00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:26,880 Speaker 1: I think that, you know, maybe just like warm clothing 633 00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,200 Speaker 1: makes it possible to enjoy the rocky mountains in the winter, 634 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,960 Speaker 1: air conditioning makes it possible to enjoy the deserts, and 635 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:41,280 Speaker 1: automobiles too, And so a lot of the appreciation for deserts, 636 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:43,120 Speaker 1: a lot of the great books that have been written 637 00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:48,359 Speaker 1: about deserts are twentieth century things, and not since. 638 00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,600 Speaker 3: In this episode, you also tell a story not only 639 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:58,520 Speaker 3: of sort of an individual conversion, but also broader cultural 640 00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:03,680 Speaker 3: and institutionalsion to appreciating the deserts in terms of talking 641 00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:08,400 Speaker 3: in terms of the creation of national parks that preserve 642 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,960 Speaker 3: these landscapes. And I wonder if you can talk a 643 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:18,800 Speaker 3: little bit about the relationship between individual experience and those 644 00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:24,640 Speaker 3: larger institutional transformations, because there's certainly a connection there, although 645 00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,520 Speaker 3: it's probably not as neatly. 646 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,719 Speaker 4: Mapped as you might imagine. 647 00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:35,480 Speaker 1: Well, as I say in this particular episode, I lived 648 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:42,000 Speaker 1: in Texas for two decades. My first university job was there. 649 00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,200 Speaker 1: And one of the things about Texas that I've talked 650 00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:52,960 Speaker 1: about before and these podcasts is that it's a hard 651 00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:57,400 Speaker 1: thing to decide whether Texas is a part of the West, because, 652 00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:03,720 Speaker 1: for one thing, half or more Texas seems to ecologically 653 00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:05,320 Speaker 1: belong to the. 654 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:06,600 Speaker 2: South rather than West. 655 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:11,640 Speaker 1: But there is a western third or so of Texas 656 00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:19,759 Speaker 1: that is geographically, ecologically, geologically Western, and so it fulfills 657 00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,600 Speaker 1: that kind of, you know, that necessity of being a 658 00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,400 Speaker 1: part of the West. But the thing that distinguishes the 659 00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:29,239 Speaker 1: modern West, of course, is the public lands phenomenon. This 660 00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,520 Speaker 1: is what really makes the whole what the whole wheel 661 00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:35,840 Speaker 1: spent around the axle of the modern West is having 662 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,400 Speaker 1: the public lands and all the issues that go with 663 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,239 Speaker 1: managing public lands, and. 664 00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,200 Speaker 2: Texas, because of its particular. 665 00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:45,640 Speaker 1: History, didn't get to have that and didn't attempt to 666 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,560 Speaker 1: have that. In fact, it sort of deliberately moved away 667 00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:56,440 Speaker 1: from it. But the Chihuahuan Desert provided the opportunity in 668 00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:01,719 Speaker 1: the form of now too pretty significant national parks Big 669 00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,200 Speaker 1: Ben National Park, which is the one I talk about 670 00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:09,279 Speaker 1: primarily in this episode, but also Guadalupe Mountains National Park, 671 00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,800 Speaker 1: which is a much more recent one. They're both national 672 00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,680 Speaker 1: parks in the state of Texas in the Chihuahuan Desert 673 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:23,040 Speaker 1: or Transpacus part of the state, and they have really, 674 00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:28,600 Speaker 1: in a way become of outsized importance, I think to 675 00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,359 Speaker 1: people in Texas in particular, because it's the one part 676 00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:36,000 Speaker 1: of the state where you really have the landscape open 677 00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:40,280 Speaker 1: for adventure. And in my own personal experience in Texas 678 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,920 Speaker 1: in the two decades that I lived there, I mean 679 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,640 Speaker 1: I did my best in the part I lived up 680 00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:49,680 Speaker 1: in the high plains country and ended up exploring a 681 00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,000 Speaker 1: lot of the canyon country there, almost all of which 682 00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:57,759 Speaker 1: was under private fence and no trespassing signs, And there 683 00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:02,040 Speaker 1: were two state parks there which I explored minutely and 684 00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,359 Speaker 1: also did an awful lot of trespassing, and occasionally would 685 00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,200 Speaker 1: ask some rancher if I could explore a canyon on 686 00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,880 Speaker 1: his property. But mostly I just kind of trespassed in 687 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,839 Speaker 1: order to explore that part of the world. But when 688 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:17,400 Speaker 1: I wanted to actually experience something of the public lands 689 00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:21,200 Speaker 1: state of Texas, the place to go was always the 690 00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:25,239 Speaker 1: Big Bend and out to Big Bend National Park and 691 00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:29,200 Speaker 1: Guadalupe Mountains National Park. And I mean, I've got a 692 00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,880 Speaker 1: buddy in Austin. I just got a text from a 693 00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,080 Speaker 1: couple of days ago who told me that he's getting 694 00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,360 Speaker 1: a knee surgery done on one of his knees because 695 00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:41,040 Speaker 1: it's been He and I climbed Guadaloupe Peak, the highest 696 00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:45,400 Speaker 1: peak in Texas in that park, about thirty or thirty 697 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,919 Speaker 1: five years ago, and he hasn't been up since then, 698 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:49,840 Speaker 1: and he's getting his knee fixed so he can go 699 00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,919 Speaker 1: up to the top of Guadaloupe Peak again. So it's 700 00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,880 Speaker 1: that kind of that kind of thing that these public 701 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,600 Speaker 1: lands do, even for state like Texas, which has so 702 00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:08,040 Speaker 1: little of it. Nonetheless, Texans, I think have a disproportionate 703 00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:11,280 Speaker 1: kind of pride in this part of the state. 704 00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,480 Speaker 2: Uh, and with good reason. It seems to me. Yeah. 705 00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:16,360 Speaker 4: And it's it's interesting too. 706 00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:22,239 Speaker 3: That the Big Bend has become such a flashpoint in 707 00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:26,600 Speaker 3: the headlines recently, uh, with the idea of a border 708 00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:32,560 Speaker 3: wall and the opposition to it. You know, you read 709 00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,000 Speaker 3: you read some of these articles, and they're talking to 710 00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:40,160 Speaker 3: you know, local sheriffs and folks who are very conservative, 711 00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:42,960 Speaker 3: but this is a line in the sand for them 712 00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:46,680 Speaker 3: because of how much they value those those parks. 713 00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:47,640 Speaker 2: That's exactly it. 714 00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,480 Speaker 1: And and it's so that it brings what we were 715 00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:54,000 Speaker 1: just talking about up to the very present moment. I mean, 716 00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:58,040 Speaker 1: Texas is perfectly content with a border wall to be 717 00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:01,600 Speaker 1: on the outside of the park, even in the transpac Us. 718 00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:05,680 Speaker 1: They're willing to have it be up around Presidio and 719 00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:09,279 Speaker 1: so forth, but not in the park, no way. And 720 00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,440 Speaker 1: so it's one of those things that's linked to a 721 00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:16,280 Speaker 1: kind of a pride of state and a pride in 722 00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:20,239 Speaker 1: this public lands national park there that no matter which 723 00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:24,719 Speaker 1: side of the political fence you're on, you're against there 724 00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,040 Speaker 1: being a border wall and Big. 725 00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:27,759 Speaker 2: Band National Park. 726 00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:32,360 Speaker 1: And that's a you know that probably says volumes about 727 00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:34,280 Speaker 1: the importance of this place to the state. 728 00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, and for those of us who love public lands 729 00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,800 Speaker 3: and part it's very encouraging to see. 730 00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:44,080 Speaker 2: That, very encouraging to see that. Absolutely, Thanks Dan, Yeah, 731 00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:44,920 Speaker 2: that rental