1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You are listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair. 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: An open kitchen in the River Cafe means we as 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: chefs are able to talk to our guests dining in 4 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: the restaurant, sharing how we cook their food, where the 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: ingredients come from, as well as hints and advice for 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: cooking the recipes in the books. And now we're bringing 7 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: that same ethos to our podcast, a question and answer 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: episode with me and our two executive chefs, Sean Winnowen 9 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: and Joseph Travelli. All we need is to hear from 10 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: you about what you would like to know. Send a 11 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: voice note with your question to Questions at Rivercafe dot 12 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: co dot uk and you might just be our next 13 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: great guest on Ruthie's Table four. David Chipperfield and I 14 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: have been friends for so long that this morning I 15 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: had to ask him when we met. He reminded me 16 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: it was in Paris, Richard was building the Pompadou and 17 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: David was a student. The light has shone bright since 18 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: then for this Pritzker and Sterling Prize winner, the Noise 19 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 1: Museum in Berlin, Hepworth Wakefield and many others. A few 20 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: months ago, David asked me to see the work his 21 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: foundation is doing on the food Marcus in Galicia, their 22 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: crucial world sustainability, the economy and culture. And so here 23 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: I am in northwest Spain about to talk to him 24 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: in front of an audience for a special live event. 25 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: David's introduction to Calicia was thirty three years ago on 26 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: a visit to Corbado, a small seaside village where he 27 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: and his wife Evelyn created a home. Now they have 28 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: a small bar in the middle of the village. David 29 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: is as passionate about Alicia's farm to table culture as 30 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: he is about its people. For him, it's all part 31 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: of the same conversation, conversation that I am so excited 32 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: and grateful to be having here with him in Casarea. 33 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: David and Evelyn think that I went to have my 34 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: hair done today, but really what I was doing is 35 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: looking for an apartment to live here, because in the 36 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: last forty eight hours, having never been here before, I've 37 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: been in bars in eleven o'clock at night. I've eaten 38 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: a pig's nose and a pig's tail and a pig's ear. 39 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: I've met ambassadors and artists and fashion designers. And I've seen, really, 40 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: what I've seen here in the last forty eight hours 41 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: is the connection here in casarea. It could be in 42 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: the market, it could be meeting someone who is going 43 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: to tell us their fish. It's just a constant, constant 44 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: flow of connection and engagement and empathy and fun and 45 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: interest in the people who live here. And I'm in 46 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: awe of what they do. I feel so lucky and happy, 47 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: and the only emotion I feel right now is that 48 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: I don't want to go home. 49 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 2: Thank you, Ruthie, and thank you everybody for coming. It's 50 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: a really impressive group of people tonight, So thank you 51 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: for coming. Ruthie has been instrumental in changing the food 52 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 2: culture of London, your interest in where food comes from 53 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: and sourcing food, because you talk a lot about that. 54 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 2: When I hear you talking a lot about where you 55 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: get your tomatoes from. Galicia has this food culture, it 56 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 2: has this food production culture, it has this small scale production. 57 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 2: We've got many here and we at the same time, 58 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: we've seen the enormous migration of young people from the 59 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 2: rural because it's a hard life. The parents want them 60 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 2: to go away and go to university. Doesn't matter what 61 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 2: they study, and there isn't enough development of those agricultural 62 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 2: industries into the modern world. So we've got no new model. 63 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 2: We've only got the old model, the antique model of 64 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:17,359 Speaker 2: small scale farming. And that is tough. And this is 65 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 2: a topic that we're interested in the way how do 66 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: you keep young people interested and how does the administration 67 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 2: in a way put confidence in that. 68 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: I'm encouraged by a lot of really good you know, 69 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: thinking about food, about small farms, about farmers, about young people. 70 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: I think the exciting thing is also that I was 71 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 1: talking to We buy our tomato and jars for the 72 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: winter cook tomato sauce in Pulia, and he was telling 73 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: me today that a lot of the people from Pulia 74 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: young people, because how do you keep young people wanting 75 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 1: to stay in the communities where they grew up And 76 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: of course you want them to go explore the world, 77 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: but you also know how important the culture is. And 78 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: he was saying that people in ployee have gone young 79 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: people have gone to Milan to become bankers or you know, 80 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: work in industry or work in tech, and at starting 81 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: to come back because what draws them back is the quality, 82 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: you know, the quality of food that they can do. 83 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 1: It's exciting. They can make you know, jar tomatoes and 84 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: beautiful jars with beautiful graphics and make them you know, interesting, 85 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: and then they can experiment. In Mexico, you know, we 86 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: have so many friends who are making you know, their 87 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: parents with traditional made mescal or tequila, and they're doing 88 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: it in a different way. The wine producers that we 89 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: work with in Italy, their parents their you know, Renzo's generation. 90 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: They were farmers who made wine. And now these young 91 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: you know, they're now in their forties or fifties, decided 92 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: when they inherited, they go to La you know, California 93 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: and France and Bordeaux and see how to make wine 94 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:00,679 Speaker 1: in a different way. Came back and changed the production 95 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: of you know, great into great wines. And so I 96 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: think if we can encourage people to work because food 97 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: and farming, agriculture and production is so exciting. 98 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 2: One might say, very superficially here that the margins get 99 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 2: very small now and therefore the condition hospitality is very 100 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 2: tough because bars and restaurants can't afford to pay their 101 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 2: stuff that much. Yeah, yeah, and I think they pay 102 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 2: them very fairly and reasonably, you know, in the general, 103 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 2: but it's a very long day. It's a very hard business. 104 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:39,119 Speaker 2: You know, it's tough. 105 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: We glamorize being a chef, you know, we think, oh, 106 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: it's you know, passion to be a chef and work 107 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: in a restaurant. But for a lot of people, it 108 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: was either going in the army or going to be 109 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: a chef. And then and then if you became a chef, 110 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: it was so hard because you had to be there 111 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: at four in the morning, you had to soak the fire, 112 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: you had to be bullied by somebody who told you 113 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: what to do. And then everybody woke up and said, 114 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: wait a minute, we don't have to be like this. 115 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: You can come into work at nine, you can work 116 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: five days a week. You can be fed, you can 117 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: use good ingredients, you can be taught. You're not allowed 118 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: to be you know, if somebody bullies you, go to 119 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: the police. You know, there was a whole way of 120 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: making actually working in food in a restaurant something that 121 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: people wanted to do. And I think it could be 122 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: the same with farming. It can be with. 123 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 2: Its easily because do they want to work and I 124 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 2: hope they do. 125 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's been you know, we have had 126 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: people do you have about one hundred and twenty. But 127 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: we have a shop, we have a cafe, cafe, and 128 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: we do off site, you know, we do you know, 129 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: we do events and that. But I think whether you 130 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: have twelve or whether you have one hundred, it's the 131 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: way your culture. Getting back to the culture, what makes 132 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: somebody want to be an architect, you know, what makes 133 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: somebody want to be a fashion designer? You know what 134 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: draws you? And I think far is a real struggle. 135 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: You know, it can rain when you need sun, and 136 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: it can have sun when you need rain, and it 137 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: can be nobody buys corn anymore. It's very hard. You're 138 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: working in the wine is wine is like farming. They 139 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: have a bad rain and then a hail and then 140 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: you know, we know that. So how do you make 141 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: it though part of something that you want to do. 142 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 2: A few people say, we're just not willing to pay 143 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 2: enough for our food, and that's one of the problems. 144 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 2: A lot of the restaurants here. They are very fixed 145 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 2: in prices, you know, and it's a much flatter society here. 146 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 2: It's much more difficult to leave ridge money out of food. 147 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 2: The margins are quite tight. But at the same time, 148 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 2: I would say the qualities are very yeah, really hard. 149 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: I've eaten so well here, you know, really from the 150 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: lunch we had, I can name all the meals we've had, 151 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: you know, and I've only been here a short time. 152 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 2: We've had a piece lunch, and you've had about. 153 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: The fish we had the first you getting off the 154 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 1: plane and having that fish and then sitting in nearby 155 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: that night. And the pig, yes, the pig. But the 156 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: breakfast and the tortilla, and what David and Evelyn and 157 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: so Leicester you're doing here. I mean, the kitchen here is. 158 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 2: Amazing Anincdotally it's often said that we're buying more cookbooks 159 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 2: but doing less cooking. Clearly, the idea that people still 160 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 2: cook is pretty fundamental part of the whole food ecology. 161 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 2: I mean, do you have the feeling that people are 162 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 2: still cooking? 163 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: I think they are. I think, you know, young people 164 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,839 Speaker 1: who can't I mean, you know, maybe afford to go out, 165 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: or they have children at home and don't go out. 166 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: I think that cookbooks are kind of aspirational, you know. 167 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,439 Speaker 1: Nor Efron rote a very famous essay for Gourmet, saying 168 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: I get Gourmet magazine every month and I'm looking at 169 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: it from cover to cover, and I've never made a recipe, 170 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: you know. And I think there is that thing of 171 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: looking at a cook book and thinking I will make this, 172 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: I will do it, I'll be a better person if 173 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: I do, or whatever, and then you put it away 174 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: and you go back to making what you do. But 175 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: I do think people like to read. I think the 176 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 1: internet has changed a lot of people look at recipes online, 177 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 1: which is great, you know, or on YouTube, which is great, 178 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: you know. I think that anything that makes people want 179 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: to cook. Do people cook for you? Do your friends 180 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: cook for you? 181 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 2: Yes, there's certainly a sort of London dinner party cooking, 182 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 2: but I suppose I'm talking about you know, every day yeah, 183 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 2: for your kids. 184 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't think it's hard. I mean it is 185 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: really hard because now we're all working with the idea 186 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: of one of the woman who stayed home and shocked 187 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: and prepared and cooked and food was on the table 188 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: when you came home. It has changed. It's just a 189 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 1: lot of pressure because very often those women are going 190 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: to do the night shift at Amazon or you know, 191 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: they'd rather do homework with their kids and cook a 192 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: meal for them. I'd like to take the value j 193 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: out of it. I would like people to think, instead 194 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: of ordering on delivery, I can put a bag of 195 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: pasta in the boiling water and serve it with broccoli 196 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: and you're done. But I think the reality is it's hard. 197 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: It's hard to do everything. 198 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 2: As things become more and more expensive even to buy, 199 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 2: then the reliability of process food that you can buy 200 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 2: becomes simpler. Again, slightly anecdotal, but I heard a mother 201 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 2: talking on BBC Radio for saying that she tried, and 202 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,719 Speaker 2: you know, she felt morally undistressed to cook every night 203 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 2: for her children and sit down. She said, but I 204 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 2: can cook reasonably well and I can do it, but 205 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 2: so many of my friends don't know how to cook. 206 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 2: And also that it's a risk because if you can 207 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 2: buy things and you don't cook your supper well for 208 00:11:55,760 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 2: your kids, you might have blown your budget and secondly 209 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,959 Speaker 2: they might not want to eat it, whereas if you 210 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 2: give them process, you know, a Hamburg or something guaranteed. 211 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 2: And your friend Jamie Oliver, so those of you that 212 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 2: know the chef Jamie Oliver, who had a very has 213 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 2: had really big influence in England, came from your kitchen. 214 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 2: He was one of your kids. 215 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was, he is still and. 216 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 2: He's been incredibly a good advocate for sort of normal food. 217 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 2: I think Blair pointed him as a sort of ambassador 218 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 2: for school food, so they tried to improve school food. 219 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 2: But how do you see the larger food culture. 220 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: Well, your first point about people not cooking at home 221 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: and not knowing how to cook, you know, I go 222 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: back to Blair and would say education, education, education, because 223 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: I think if you judge, how do you judge a culture, 224 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: how did you judge a society? You know, it could 225 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: take Paris where if you walk, you know, I have 226 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: a photograph of a cole mat Turnell which is a 227 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: state school for young children, and they put their menus 228 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 1: on the outside of the of the school and you see, 229 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: you know, they start with Celaria ramalogue and then they 230 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: have a soup, and then they have a fish or 231 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: a meat. Then they have a cheese course for four 232 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: year olds, and then they had a dessert. And I 233 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 1: have this photograph and I thought that tells you something. 234 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: I think that tells you something about a culture that 235 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: prioritizes feeding little children, well you know, for free. This 236 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: is not a private school. And I think that the 237 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: way a society feeds their children the way they feed 238 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: sick children. You know, I could go on and on. 239 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: I don't want to get too political, but I really 240 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: do think that the way and I can see it here. 241 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: You can see in the market, you can see the 242 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: way somebody offered me. One thing I thought I would 243 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: do is buy a piece of cheese today because I 244 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: hadn't been able to do that, and she wouldn't take 245 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: you know, she gave it to me. And that culture 246 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: of sharing, and. 247 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 2: It's not always true. Sometimes they take money. 248 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:11,959 Speaker 1: Well, they didn't take it for me. For their food, 249 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: they didn't take it, but they were just it was 250 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: just I don't know, it's a way somebody cuts a 251 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: piece of bread. I think it really goes deep into 252 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: a culture. How we can fix it, I think it's 253 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: not sure, but I do think if we invest in 254 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: people then now. 255 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 2: I mean, Japan had had an anxiety because they shifted 256 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: diet a bit. They're eating more Western foods, and they 257 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 2: panicked about child obesity and that they were getting a 258 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 2: large percentage of child to see, so they introduced regulations 259 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 2: into the school. All school food now has to be 260 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 2: produced on the school. It all has to be fresh food. 261 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 2: It has to be cooked in it, and they've got 262 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 2: child to b C down to four percent or something. 263 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 2: So it's as simple as that, surely, isn't it. 264 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: In our schools they have candy machines, don't they The 265 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: machine that sells suits, you know, so it's a complex issue. 266 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: I think cooking is joyous, you know. I think that 267 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: it is fun. It brings people together. I think that 268 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: there are so many ways to do it. And I 269 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: think that you know, there are ways to communicate that 270 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: and to give that to people, you know, definitely, and 271 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: you know, as you say, you need a food culture. 272 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and presumably at certain point these things have to 273 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 2: be stimulated or promoted or encouraged by simple regulations or not. 274 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 2: I mean, we saw something in England which I was 275 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 2: quite surprised at. They the last government, conservative government put 276 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 2: the tax on sugar in drinks. 277 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: Now it's happened in New Mexico. A huge, huge difference. 278 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: You must have noticed it, you know that. You know, 279 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: they text Coca Cola and the gcase. People are buying 280 00:15:54,880 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: huge bottles and that has really helped. Yeah, I agree. 281 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: Imagine a state bottled olive oil chosen and bottled for 282 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: the river Cafe arriving at your door every month. Our 283 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: subscription is available for six or twelve months, with each 284 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: oil chosen personally by our head chefs and varying with 285 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: each delivery. It's a perfect way to bring some River 286 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: Cafe flavor into your home or to show someone you 287 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: really care for them with the gift. Visit our website 288 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: shop the Rivercafe dot co UK to place your order. 289 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 2: Now, your whole food thing began in the office. It 290 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 2: was the canteen of Richard Rogers Architects. Why did you 291 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 2: do that? Tell us how it started with Rose Gray 292 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 2: and how did the Oh. 293 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: Sorry because it's a long story, but Richard and I 294 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: were living in Paris designing a building and we came 295 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: back to London having lived in Paris for five years, 296 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: and he really it was Richard really thought that he 297 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: didn't want to move into a building in the city 298 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 1: or building, you know, in an office. He wanted to 299 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: create a community. And I think living in Paris made 300 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 1: us very aware of being you know, outsiders and sticking 301 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: together quite closely with people we worked with with our family, 302 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: and so we came back. He really looked for a 303 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: place where there could be a community and we found 304 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: these warehouses on the Thames, which quite in the western 305 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: part of London, Harrismith, and they were originally Duckham's Oil, 306 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: you know, And so there was noisy, it was dirty, 307 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: it was quite industrial. And he and his partners bought 308 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: the site and tore down one of the warehouses so 309 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: you could see the river. They took a large part 310 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 1: of the space, but they also there was somebody who 311 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: framed payings. There was graphic designers, there was another architect. 312 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: The idea was how to create a community. And the 313 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: most important thing for Richard being Italian, having lived in 314 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: Frads loving food a mother was a great cook, was 315 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: gathering together over food, you know, how could you do that? 316 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: And so there was a very small space and we 317 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: talked about it. I'd worked in publishing and I worked 318 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: in the office doing books, and I was trained as 319 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: a graphic designer. And so the idea was we would 320 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: interview various restaurants or small cafes that would want to 321 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: come into this very small space. And I can actually 322 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: remember the night that we were skiing and I turned 323 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: to Richard and said, the only thing worse than not 324 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: having a place to eat would be to have a 325 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: mediocre one and these are mediocre. I think I'll do it. 326 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: I honestly said, I think I'll do it. And so 327 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: from that idea we went back to London and Rose Gray, 328 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: a magnificent woman who was a friend, a great friend 329 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: of Zad's family as well, had come back from New York. 330 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: She'd worked with Keith McNally on setting up Nells, and 331 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: she was back in London. She was cooking and I said, 332 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 1: let's go, you know, can we meet for a coffee. 333 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: Neither of us really knew very much about doing a 334 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: restaurant but. 335 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 2: The reason you wanted to do it was because you 336 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 2: wanted this to be a sort of social center of. 337 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 1: The place where people could come and have lunch. And 338 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: we weren't even allowed to open. We wanted to open 339 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: to the public. We wanted to be the best Italian 340 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: restaurant in London. The idea that we wanted to start 341 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: a canteen for the office wasn't really our idea, but 342 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: we had the restriction of not being allowed to open 343 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: to the public, and we could only be open for lunch. 344 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 2: And why Italian, that's. 345 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: A good yeah. Richard. Richard's family were in Florence. His connection. 346 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: His mother was Italian from Trieste. We spent a lot 347 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: of time in Italy and Rose had actually lived in 348 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 1: Luca for two years with her children. 349 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 2: I had the sense that you were also It wasn't 350 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 2: just Italian food, it was the idea that you were 351 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 2: also interested in where the food came from, and you 352 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 2: did all your trips, research trips about where the recipes 353 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 2: came from. 354 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 1: We really wanted to cook the kind of Italian food 355 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: that we had eaten in Italy. And if you went 356 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: to restaurants, the Italian restaurants in London were mostly run 357 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: and started by managers or waiters, and they brought the 358 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: kind of food that they thought people would want to 359 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: eat in London. Quite heavy, you know, parmeganni was delicious, 360 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: plus spaghetti with meatballs, cheap coianty, and we wanted to 361 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: bring the kind of food that we had cooked and 362 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: eaten in Italy. Bread, soups, pasta, sauces that were simple. 363 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 2: That all seems fairly obvious now, but thirty five years 364 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 2: ago that must have been. 365 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: It was very challenging. We used to bring back We 366 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: used to go to Italy and bring back parmesan cheese 367 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 1: we used to go and bring back a proshuto. I 368 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: remember carrying a proshuoto. And famously Rose once brought back 369 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 1: a huge pumpkin and she gave the pumpkin a seating 370 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: business class and she's at an economy. You know. But 371 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: it changed, It did change. 372 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 2: And have you seen that change over these years? 373 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, radically, yeah, yeah, I mean I think 374 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: that as I sometimes say, when cheap lights started happening, 375 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: that you could fly to Florence or fly to Naples 376 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: for fifteen pounds. More and more people went there, went 377 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: to Italy and thought, wow, I can eat this in Italy. 378 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: I'd like to eat in England. In the beginning, people 379 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: would we'd serve a Papa pomodoro, which was made of 380 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: bread and tomatoes and basil, and people would say, well, 381 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: at the time, why should I pay five pounds for this? 382 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: People became much more involved, I think in the kind 383 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: of food you could. 384 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 2: Eat and what are the changes have you seen over 385 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 2: this period? 386 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: I mean, what else is Well, it's been thirty seven years, 387 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: so there has been I think people, you know, eating 388 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,959 Speaker 1: out more. I think that people go to restaurants, do 389 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: want to know about sourcing and then I think for us, 390 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: a big radical step was when we became involved with 391 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: the people who produced our wine. And so, you know, 392 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: we were very tusk and based in the beginning, but 393 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: then we went to Piedmonte to meet the wine producers, 394 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: or Sicily to meet the wine producers, or Pulia. It 395 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 1: took us into the world of people who were creating 396 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: something and then also people who were then starting to 397 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 1: really think about bringing food from Italy to England. We 398 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: brought back seeds, We brought back the seeds for cavalon narrow. 399 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: I have to give rosa credit for that, and found 400 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,479 Speaker 1: a farmer near Southampton who grew it for us, you know, 401 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: And so we were able to have cavalonero in nineteen 402 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,159 Speaker 1: eighty nine, you know, when nobody even could get it 403 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: at all, so we could make rebelita. You know, you 404 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: can't make rebelita really without cavalonaro. And then became very 405 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: involved in olive oil well as well, because the people 406 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: who make the wine also make the olive oil. So 407 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: we bottled our own olive oil. You know, we'd go 408 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: and do that. 409 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 2: I use your cookbooks, you know, thirty years or whatever, 410 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,479 Speaker 2: and I think the cookbooks were also a way of 411 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 2: explaining the idea of River Cafe. No, I mean, do 412 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 2: you have that feeling that they were sort of fundamental 413 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 2: to the idea of the River Cafe, not just as 414 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 2: a place, but as another way of looking at food. 415 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: Now, when we were asked to write our first cookbook, 416 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: the River Cafe Cookbook, and we said, we're not cookbook writers, 417 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: were you know, chefs? So no, and then we started thinking, well, 418 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: how can we In a way, it almost became a 419 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,239 Speaker 1: handbook for the people who work. So they'd come up, 420 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: a chef would be working, say how do I make rotolo? 421 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: Or how do I make a tomato sauce? And you know, 422 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 1: we have to explain. And then we thought, well if 423 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: we write them down, and I think it's a long 424 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: story again. So well, but the cookbooks, the first cookbook 425 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: that we did, we've wrote the recipe down. We took 426 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: a photograph of the food right away, no styling, we 427 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: just took and so if you follow these directions, you 428 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,679 Speaker 1: will be able to make something that we make. You know, 429 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: it's simple, it's easy, it's accessible. This is the way 430 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 1: we cook in the River Cafe. This is the way 431 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: you can cook at home. It was kind of bringing 432 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: restaurant food to the domestic kitchen. The River Cafe wind 433 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: you said lunch is now running from Monday to Thursday. 434 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 1: Reserve a booking at www. River cafet co uk or 435 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: give us a call. 436 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 2: I wonder if we should open it up to some 437 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,400 Speaker 2: questions to give you the opportunity. 438 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for being here and question for me. 439 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 3: I know that you have a very particular culture at 440 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 3: the River Cafe, the way that you train the staff 441 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 3: to care about the food, the trips that you do 442 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 3: to Italy source, even hiring people that have trained up 443 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,239 Speaker 3: bally Malo in Ireland. Could you talk a little bit 444 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 3: more about how you install that into like every single day. 445 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, the Italy trips are really you know, something 446 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: that Rose and I did when we were just starting 447 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 1: out and we thought, you know, I really like David 448 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: and even and to have a personal relationship. So we 449 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: started out with the people that we bought our wine from, 450 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: and then we realized that for a lot of the 451 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: young people working in the River Cafe cooking making the 452 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: thinnest violi you can see your hand through, or doing 453 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: a slow cook field sauce, or making a polentic cake. 454 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: They were cooking greatful, but a lot of them. I 455 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: think life is about exposure, and I just say the 456 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: way my children have been exposed, or my friend's children, 457 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: and so they hadn't been exposed to actually Italian life 458 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: for Italy, and so we started taking chefs and managers 459 00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: and waiters and it became really important. We still we'll 460 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: do it, you know. Now we take because we're bigger. 461 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 1: We take about fifteen sixteen people to Tuscany. We do 462 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 1: it around the olive oil and we take them to 463 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: see how olive oil is made, the pressing the olives, 464 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 1: and then the producers give us. It's quite hard work. 465 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: You get up in the morning, I know, and then 466 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 1: you go to a winery, you taste the wine, you 467 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 1: see the olive oil. Then you have lunch. They always 468 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: in the house of the producer. Again it's a home 469 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: cooked Italian meal, Tuscan meal. And then you do it 470 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: again and you go to it. So it's but they 471 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: come back so excited and so knowledgeable, so that when 472 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: they pour that bit of olive oil over somebody's brisquetta, 473 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: they really respect it and they understand it. And so 474 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: that's that's the Italy trip. Then I suppose we have 475 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: we change the menu every meal, so the chef comes 476 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: in and writes a menu depending like you do at home. 477 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: But we have in the fridge. What if we ordered 478 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: what's left over? How do I feel? What would I 479 00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: like to eat if I was eating in the River 480 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: Cafe tonight? So I think that gives a lot of interest. 481 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 1: And they and also the chefs come in and they 482 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: don't know what they're gonna cook, so that gives a 483 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: kind of interest. And then I suppose we have again 484 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: the open kitchen. We work in a kitchen where it's 485 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,959 Speaker 1: so open that nobody can shout, you know, which is 486 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: you know, you have a kind of order, which is 487 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 1: I once said to a friend of mine, as a director, 488 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: look at the kitchen, isn't it like a play? And 489 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,959 Speaker 1: he said, no, actually, Ruthy, it's like a ballet, you know, 490 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: because everybody's moving the whole time, you know, and you 491 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: go over to the grill and say is it ready yet? 492 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: Or you go, you know, to the pasta and say, oh, 493 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: you're done? Can I put the lamb on now? You know? 494 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: So I think making and we don't. Yeah, and they 495 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 1: and a team and also we don't really encourage people 496 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 1: to do more than five shifts and sometimes a six. 497 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: They can't do more than one double, and they have 498 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,719 Speaker 1: to have two days off, usually in a row, and 499 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: that again gives you a sense of a genuine place. 500 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: Everybody has a view out to the river. If you're 501 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: on the bar, you can look out. If you're you know, 502 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: washing up, you can move outside. It's so we try 503 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: and create an environment like that. But we're not alone. 504 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are doing that. Yeah, 505 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: that's not to say I just want to say that 506 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: it sounds like we're a family, happy cozy, you know, 507 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: hugging restaurant. We're actually if that, you know, curtain goes 508 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 1: up at twelve thirty and you haven't done your sauce, 509 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: so you haven't raided the cheese, or you haven't squeezed 510 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: your lemons, you're in trouble, you know, because our role 511 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: is to make a happy kitchen. But it's really rigorous. 512 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: You have to We have people coming in to eat, 513 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: and the whole attention is on is a carpet cleaned, 514 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: is the are the menus out? You know? It's it's 515 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: it's very professional too. 516 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 4: Yes, any other questions, so I may lower the level 517 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 4: of a discussion here with this silly question. But I 518 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 4: dared to ask you that because perhaps of my I'm 519 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 4: an anglophile, because I love York Side pudding, Yorkshire, and 520 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 4: I was wondering what it would be like, Like I said, 521 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 4: what would be like? How would you imagine what would 522 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 4: be the difficulties, the challenges, or even have the success 523 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 4: of opening a British restaurant in Rome? 524 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that I can't take Rome, but I 525 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: know that hawksmore. And there's another restaurant opening in New York, 526 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: you know, and bringing very much kind of Yorkshire putting 527 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: in roast beef to New York. Rome. Not sure. 528 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 2: But after Yorkshire putting, what what do you do? What's 529 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 2: the next Thingish thing? 530 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: Fergus it's done for you know, Fergus has done lots 531 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: of you know, we were talking about that today that 532 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: it would just be great if when you went to 533 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: dinner at Buckingham Palace, you know, you have had steak 534 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: and kidney pudding or roast beef instead of a kind 535 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: of faux French meal. You know that you would actually 536 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: celebrate British cooking. And I think sometimes when you talk 537 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: to people about you know, growing up in Lancashire or 538 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: Yorkshire or Cornwall. They will talk, oh, my mother used 539 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: to make this dish, you know, and they will wax 540 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: lyrical about their grandmother's cooking. So I'm sure it's there. 541 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: I don't think it does translate very easily to restaurants. 542 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: The best British cooking I've had has been in people's houses, 543 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: you know, really great food Sad's mom. You know, It's 544 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: just it's eating in people's houses. I think I'm not 545 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: sure how it translates to restaurants. Rome, I'm not sure. 546 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 2: We'll leave it to you for me to open the 547 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 2: British restaurant in Barcelona. 548 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. People ask me if I wanted to open a 549 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: river cafe Milad and I thought, no way. You know, 550 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: I don't think they'd really want, you know, an American 551 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: and a British woman doing Italian food that I'm not sure. 552 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 2: If I can say. As a complete foreigner to Galicia, 553 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 2: one of the things that I find quite interesting is 554 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 2: there's a tendency for Galicians to like their own food 555 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 2: above others, which is quite unique because if you, yeah, 556 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 2: if you're in London, you say, what out of food 557 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 2: do you like? That no one will say English food, 558 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 2: oh I like Thai. Oh yeah, I mean but here, 559 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 2: given a choice between a Galician product and another product, 560 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 2: is it from here or not? It's okay they And 561 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 2: I think that's an incredible place to begin too, because if, 562 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 2: as we are now concerned that local and seasonal is 563 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 2: an issue, then you do need to want to be 564 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 2: restricted by those things, as opposed to thinking that their penalties. 565 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 2: You know, why can't I have something? There's very few 566 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 2: things now in a London context, you know that people 567 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 2: would understand that you you can't give them this time 568 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 2: of the year. I mean, your restaurant is one of 569 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 2: the few. I would say that you sort of positively 570 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 2: gravitate towards things which are seasonal, and then your cookbooks 571 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 2: have done that. But I would say one of the 572 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 2: struggles in terms of sustainability is to persuade people that 573 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 2: you can't have any product at any time, from anywhere, 574 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 2: at any season. And I think if you're trying to 575 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 2: talk about sustainability, I would have to say, and this 576 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 2: is my you know, it's right. The Foundation talks about 577 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 2: a lot is I think actually the food culture here 578 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 2: is in a very healthy state because in a sense 579 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 2: the culture is already sort of on board. They're very 580 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 2: unadventurous in a way. When I first came here, I 581 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 2: was surprised that you look at a menu and it 582 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 2: just has the same things that every restaurant you go to, 583 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 2: twelve twelve things. Now I think it's fantastic. Thank you 584 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 2: for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair