Speaker 1: Hey there, folks, Jennifer M wrote to us asking for
Speaker 1: some relationship advice. Her husband of two years has been
Speaker 1: telling people that he married her out of obligation, and
Speaker 1: he's been doing it right in front of her rollbox.
Speaker 1: Advice to Lisa, she needs to be curious my thoughts.
Speaker 1: We might be looking at a relationship killer. And with that,
Speaker 1: welcome to this relationship edition of Amy and TJ, where
Speaker 1: we follow up on our most recent Yahoo Relationship column,
Speaker 1: which you can find in the Life section of Yahoo
Speaker 1: dot com.
Speaker 2: That's right, and this week here is what Jennifer M.
Speaker 2: Wrote to us with Amy and TJ. I am sixty
Speaker 2: years old and my husband of less than two years
Speaker 2: has been telling his family and friends in my presence
Speaker 2: that he married me out of a sense of obligation.
Speaker 2: We had an eight year relationship prior to getting married.
Speaker 2: He told me upfront that he didn't want to remarry.
Speaker 2: I struggled with this privately, but with counseling, came to
Speaker 2: accept his terms not long after he proposed out of
Speaker 2: the blue. The obligation narrative is new. The first time
Speaker 2: he relayed this to his family, I expressed dismay and surprise,
Speaker 2: but not anger. I kept my cool. Now he is
Speaker 2: repeating this narrative to his close friends. He does not
Speaker 2: seem to understand how painful this is for me. What
Speaker 2: should I do? So I immediately said that I thought she
Speaker 2: had to talk to him, She had to take it
Speaker 2: straight to him, And I know it's a hard conversation,
Speaker 2: but she has to tell him how humiliating that feels,
Speaker 2: and she needs to ask him if that's how he
Speaker 2: really does feel, because maybe he was too afraid to
Speaker 2: say it to her, but in the comfort or protection
Speaker 2: of other people he knows love him, he could say
Speaker 2: it kind of jokingly, but also maybe kind of honestly.
Speaker 1: What's the purpose in getting that out? Just getting it
Speaker 1: off his chest? Is he trying to start a conversation?
Speaker 1: Like what would be the purpose?
Speaker 2: Maybe he feels guilty that he married her in the
Speaker 2: first place because he now knows he shouldn't have, and
Speaker 2: so instead of having an adult or mature conversation with
Speaker 2: her about it, or even maybe fully admitting it to himself,
Speaker 2: it's coming out in a really awkward, unfortunate way, but
Speaker 2: it's still coming out, Like how long can you suppress
Speaker 2: that those feelings come out? In some ways? And sometimes
Speaker 2: they come out in passive aggressive ways.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're suggesting he hasn't even dealt with this fact.
Speaker 2: I think he hasn't fully admitted it to himself, but
Speaker 2: it's bubbling up and now it's really hard to have
Speaker 2: a conversation and ask a question that you are afraid
Speaker 2: to hear the answer to.
Speaker 1: I thought. I mean, I think no matter where, if
Speaker 1: you're listening, like, no matter what you think she should do,
Speaker 1: and I think everybody starts with you gotta talk. Yeah,
Speaker 1: first things first, you gotta talk. After that, I just
Speaker 1: I would like to talk to this guy. I just
Speaker 1: don't know why you would do that in front of people.
Speaker 1: It's almost intentionally humiliate her. It's just humiliating. Go on
Speaker 1: Instagram and say the same thing.
Speaker 2: Right, I likened it too. You've been to couple's therapy before.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you will admit feeling something or thinking something to
Speaker 2: a third party in a safe space that you don't
Speaker 2: feel necessarily safe or comfortable with saying just to your partner.
Speaker 2: And I'm thinking that maybe that's why it's coming out.
Speaker 2: I'm going to try to give him the benefit of
Speaker 2: the doubt that he's not doing it. Maliciously okay, or
Speaker 2: to be an asshole, but actually it's not okay. It's
Speaker 2: immature as hell, and he hasn't dealt with his own emotions.
Speaker 2: But maybe it's not malicious. Maybe it's just him not
Speaker 2: dealing with how he actually feels.
Speaker 1: Then we got a problem. Then what would have happened?
Speaker 1: What happened when everything is fine after eight years and
Speaker 1: as soon as you put a ring on it, there's
Speaker 1: an issue now?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: They seem to be doing well up to that point,
Speaker 1: don't We have limited information? But what happens? Then?
Speaker 2: I would ask you, as a man, maybe if he
Speaker 2: set up front, hey, I don't want to ever remarry,
Speaker 2: because clearly he was married before and he didn't want
Speaker 2: to go down that aisle haha again. But then maybe
Speaker 2: he did feel pressure. Maybe she doesn't realize how much
Speaker 2: pressure he did feel to marry her because he knew
Speaker 2: that's what she ultimately wanted. But then once he did it,
Speaker 2: he immediately regretted. Does that make sense where now he's
Speaker 2: got the pressure and he ended up doing something he
Speaker 2: didn't want to do, so now he's resentful.
Speaker 1: Well, then that means she's not giving us enough good
Speaker 1: information to go on here because what you're saying. She
Speaker 1: writes that she struggled privately with him, saying he didn't
Speaker 1: want to get married, accepted it, but then not long
Speaker 1: after he proposed out of the blue. She's suggesting that
Speaker 1: she had moved on and then he decided that da
Speaker 1: da da da? Now is that really the case? How
Speaker 1: much time between those two things was there pressure? It
Speaker 1: could have been, but she said she was at peace
Speaker 1: with him.
Speaker 2: She might have been giving him pressure without realizing it.
Speaker 1: That is something you all do. Oh we talk about
Speaker 1: this all the time, and you all isn't fair. I
Speaker 1: apologize because not all women do all things. But this
Speaker 1: is something that I have experienced. We're talking about it
Speaker 1: here as well. But the pressure from you is not
Speaker 1: about the marriage or anything relationship wise. It's when we're
Speaker 1: gonna go see that movie? Are we going upstate?
Speaker 2: We don't want to be demonstrative, but we want to
Speaker 2: let you know what we would actually probably really like.
Speaker 2: But no pressure. You know, no one wants to to
Speaker 2: be the person who gives the ultimatum. No one wants
Speaker 2: to be the person who says let's do this or else.
Speaker 2: So maybe she didn't even realize the pressure She was
Speaker 2: putting on him.
Speaker 1: You know, guys generally I can obviously I can speak
Speaker 1: for myself and in experience with guys, I know in
Speaker 1: these in relationships the pressure stinks. Like just when you
Speaker 1: feel it, the pressure and then sometimes you start feeling
Speaker 1: it from a friend or a cousin or that stuff,
Speaker 1: it just freaks a guy out, Yeah, because even well
Speaker 1: intentioned guys will just freak out about it. Now you're
Speaker 1: doing something, the most important thing of your life, perhaps
Speaker 1: on somebody else's timeline, and even if you move your
Speaker 1: timeline by six months, that mean you're doing something for
Speaker 1: somebody else. You're not actually doing what you want to do.
Speaker 1: That starts to stink because now you're starting to question everything.
Speaker 2: So couldn't you see him? Maybe that starts to come
Speaker 2: out now in inconvenient, really awful ways. I mean, that's
Speaker 2: a I mean, I feel for her. That is a
Speaker 2: gutting thing to hear anyone say to your face, but
Speaker 2: it's even more gutting to know that he's saying it
Speaker 2: in front of other people. Can you see feel for her?
Speaker 2: The pressure?
Speaker 1: You now am building a while scenario in my head.
Speaker 1: I can see this happening, and maybe I've seen it
Speaker 1: happen somewhere before. But what you describe right, the pressure,
Speaker 1: the pressure, the pressure, who says what the conversation was
Speaker 1: in a group of folks, how that conversation was going,
Speaker 1: had they been arguing earlier? Was he was she nitpicking
Speaker 1: about something or whatever? And you could see in an
Speaker 1: offhand moment, I ain't want to marry you know it? Yep,
Speaker 1: you could hear that mean thing coming out in a
Speaker 1: heated moment. No it's not okay, now it's not right.
Speaker 1: But some context in that. We say stupid when we're
Speaker 1: mad and other people around when we feel and humiliated.
Speaker 1: So this could have just been a defense mechanism. We
Speaker 1: just don't know what triggered.
Speaker 2: It's so fascinating. And so many of you actually left
Speaker 2: your comments about what you thought she should do, what
Speaker 2: your advice to her would be. And again didn't we
Speaker 2: see a lot of men, guys again, men writing in
Speaker 2: with their comments more so than women. I thought that
Speaker 2: was so fascinating. I love that men keep speaking up.
Speaker 2: We love hearing what you have to say to us
Speaker 2: or to Jennifer M. But Keith tells Jennifer M. Easy
Speaker 2: tell people you married him out of spite.
Speaker 1: That's something I that's a quick comeback. That's just funny.
Speaker 1: I just like I don't give a damn.
Speaker 2: I wonder if she combatd it with humor in the
Speaker 2: moment instead of feeling hurt. And you know what that does.
Speaker 2: You come from a place of strength, a place of confidence,
Speaker 2: knowing that your love is real and knowing that you
Speaker 2: are meant to be together. And so if he makes
Speaker 2: a comment, instead of immediately feeling wounded, if you can
Speaker 2: come back with a quick bar back, he might think
Speaker 2: that's sexiest. Hell.
Speaker 1: Actually, that's a great sad for that one. First, it's
Speaker 1: a great comeback. Handle it with a little humor. I
Speaker 1: don't mind that at all.
Speaker 2: In public, yes, And then in private you still have
Speaker 2: to have the conversation. I would fully suggest doing that
Speaker 2: and the next time have that at your arsenal. Maybe
Speaker 2: if he brings it up again and then say, hey, Bud,
Speaker 2: we got to talk.
Speaker 1: This next one is a theme and we'll just sum
Speaker 1: it up with this. I don't have this person's name,
Speaker 1: but they say leave a lot of people just period,
Speaker 1: point blank say divorce, divorce, divorce. You shouldn't be with
Speaker 1: this person and just don't need to hear anymore. They
Speaker 1: just hear what's described and they say that's the end.
Speaker 2: Of it'out respect respect. It's about respect, right, John says this.
Speaker 2: I have to say, this is all kind of her fault.
Speaker 2: He said he didn't want to get married. She should
Speaker 2: have taken him at his word before. And John, I
Speaker 2: hear you. But when he proposed to her, what, how
Speaker 2: is she supposed to take that? Then? If she wanted
Speaker 2: to marry him and he proposed to her, should she
Speaker 2: have questioned and said, are you sure?
Speaker 1: Given what we are?
Speaker 2: What changed?
Speaker 1: Given what's been described? It seemed like that conversation should
Speaker 1: have been had. Most women don't get proposed to out
Speaker 1: of the blue, right the timing. You might be all
Speaker 1: here or there, but you're not surprised the guy you've
Speaker 1: been with for two years might get down on a knee.
Speaker 1: You all have had a conversation at something about me
Speaker 1: and a lot.
Speaker 2: Of times, you know, like the day it's happening because
Speaker 2: of the nervous energy, like out of the weird. I
Speaker 2: don't know. I think most women pretend they're surprised. I
Speaker 2: think most women know it's coming.
Speaker 1: What's the thing now? Most women all you all will
Speaker 1: go behind the guy's back and tell your girlfriend so
Speaker 1: she can be wearing a nice enough outfit and their
Speaker 1: hair is done right.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of stuff that goes on
Speaker 2: behind the scenes where we try to act like we
Speaker 2: didn't know, but yeah, mostly we know.
Speaker 1: So she I proposed to out of the blue. If
Speaker 1: that's true, then I am really really siding with her
Speaker 1: now in that there was enough separation of.
Speaker 2: Time where she thought he had a change of heart
Speaker 2: and she accepted it, and it's what she wanted to.
Speaker 2: Why wouldn't she say yes? Okay, Michael, Okay, Michael, this
Speaker 2: is an interesting comment what he had to say about
Speaker 2: Jennifer m He said, women bash their significant other all
Speaker 2: the time. My wife did it in front of friends
Speaker 2: and friends. Wives would do it in front of me.
Speaker 2: Women get upset about this topic because women complain how
Speaker 2: the man didn't lift the toilet seed or dust before vacuuming.
Speaker 2: Men complain about women cheating during the relationship while not
Speaker 2: having physical relationships with their partner or relations with their partner.
Speaker 2: It's not our fault. Women's shortcomings are so much worse.
Speaker 1: WHOA, There's a lot there, but there's stuff worth addressing. Okay,
Speaker 1: there's a lot there like okay, Now, this idea that
Speaker 1: a woman in front of a group of people could
Speaker 1: say to her husband, oh, he's such an idiot.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you're right, right.
Speaker 1: Little comments like that and putting him down that we
Speaker 1: generally accept, would that be fair to say?
Speaker 2: I do think that that is fair on a general basis.
Speaker 1: Yes, so he is hinting at that now, even as
Speaker 1: that's humiliating and upsetting and you shouldn't do that. Do
Speaker 1: you still not equate it to or should we equate it?
Speaker 1: Is it that an equal jab?
Speaker 2: You know? I don't think it's equal to say. I mean, look,
Speaker 2: I don't think you should say my husband's an idiot
Speaker 2: whatever and he's standing right there in front of him,
Speaker 2: because that would be the equivalent. But it's one thing
Speaker 2: to say my husband's an idiot. It's another thing to say, uh,
Speaker 2: I regret marrying him, or I should never have married him,
Speaker 2: or I'm obligated now because I married this dufist Like
Speaker 2: that takes it to a whole other level combining right,
Speaker 2: I yes, neither one is okay. But I do think
Speaker 2: telling a room that you are you married someone because
Speaker 2: you felt obligated to marry them is the lowest possible blow.
Speaker 2: I think you could give. It means like I didn't
Speaker 2: want to marry this person who was standing right next
Speaker 2: to me, aka my wife.
Speaker 1: But he wanted to be with her. How did we
Speaker 1: He was in an eight year relationship.
Speaker 2: It was not like this was some new love and
Speaker 2: he didn't realize what he was getting into, like he
Speaker 2: knew her. I don't get it.
Speaker 1: I would marriage turned things somebody and waitset. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to look at the rest of what Michael.
Speaker 2: That was something he was saying that women, what men
Speaker 2: complain about women is so much worse. Like women complain
Speaker 2: that men don't don't put the toilet seat down, but
Speaker 2: men are dealing with women cheating on them. I don't
Speaker 2: that seemed like that was a big I think lots
Speaker 2: of different issues can happen for both genders.
Speaker 1: Michael is going to have to write in and we need.
Speaker 2: More information to us, all right, Carl. Carl wrote in
Speaker 2: and said, next time he says it in public, just
Speaker 2: state that you married him out of pity. It's not
Speaker 2: bad like this similar pity spite. Those are interchangeable. Both
Speaker 2: of those are fun quips, Okay, Here's what Mary. This
Speaker 2: is the first female first woman we have writing in
Speaker 2: for a comment about Jennifer m all right, here's what
Speaker 2: she said. Here's what Mary said. Please don't let him
Speaker 2: disrespect you. That is what he is doing. I would
Speaker 2: tell him how much that hurt you, and if he
Speaker 2: ever does it again, I would suggest you divorce him.
Speaker 2: If he is not in love with you enough to
Speaker 2: respect you, then find someone who is. When someone you
Speaker 2: love does not return that love in equal kind, and
Speaker 2: if you stay with him, you will maybe forgive, but
Speaker 2: please trust me, you will never forget.
Speaker 1: Well said Mary.
Speaker 2: I think that's a really good piece of advice. I
Speaker 2: agree with her because maybe you give him one more chance.
Speaker 2: Maybe he has a reason, maybe he has some pent
Speaker 2: up resentment he needs to work through with you, and
Speaker 2: then maybe he won't feel that way and won't act
Speaker 2: that way. But yeah, on once he does it again,
Speaker 2: or if he does it again, I don't think there's
Speaker 2: any coming back from that.
Speaker 1: The relationship didn't change over eight years, except we call
Speaker 1: it a marriage now, so that means there's something there.
Speaker 1: You invest eight years, there was something going on there
Speaker 1: to the point after eight years marriage was still on
Speaker 1: the table. Right, that's not two people who thinking about
Speaker 1: not being together. That's true. You're still talking about it,
Speaker 1: so I don't know how we get to this place.
Speaker 1: So to what Mary is saying, I still think there's
Speaker 1: something there. I like, tell him how much it hurt.
Speaker 1: Let's talk it out, see if we can get through it.
Speaker 1: But don't you dare do this again.
Speaker 2: That's the ultimatum I would be okay with. If you
Speaker 2: do it again, we're done. I think that's fair. It's
Speaker 2: fair because he doesn't have to say that. So I
Speaker 2: actually love this last comment. We plucked that you plucked
Speaker 2: Actually DJ the best. I think this is my favorite
Speaker 2: of all of them. This is right up my alley, Diff,
Speaker 2: whoever you are, I love this piece of advice you
Speaker 2: have for Jennifer M. Diff writes, introduce him to others
Speaker 2: as your first husband. That'll give him something to think about.
Speaker 1: Wait for it. Some people are trying to figure out wait.
Speaker 2: Wait, oh, there could be a second, there could be
Speaker 2: a third. You never know.
Speaker 1: This is my first husband is online.
Speaker 2: I love you know what. That's my favorite. That's a
Speaker 2: drop the mic moment. Jennifer m If you get the chance,
Speaker 2: just you know what, if you want to wait to
Speaker 2: have the conversation. Do that first, and then let him
Speaker 2: come to you and say what was that all about?
Speaker 2: And say, oh, funny you should ask, And there's your
Speaker 2: conversation starter. I love it. Diff Thank you, Thank you
Speaker 2: for the perfect piece of advice for Jennifer em.
Speaker 1: Again, it sounds like something else is going on there
Speaker 1: that needs to be addressed. Fine, but I just hate
Speaker 1: to hear that kind of an investment in a relationship
Speaker 1: that still was going strong after eight years. Let's figure
Speaker 1: this thing out before we completely call it quits.
Speaker 2: It's worth a conversation. So thank you all, by the way,
Speaker 2: for reading our new column ask Amy and TJ on Yahoo.
Speaker 2: In the life section every Monday, you will see a
Speaker 2: new question that a reader has written to us and
Speaker 2: our advice, and again, we love to hear your comments,
Speaker 2: so please leave them for us and we will maybe
Speaker 2: feature one of them on our podcast the following Saturday
Speaker 2: after our columns drop on Monday. But thank you for
Speaker 2: listening to us here on the Amy and TJ Podcast.
Speaker 2: We hope you have a wonderful day.