1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: Zemin, the former leader of China. He presided over more 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: than a decade of dramatic economic growth. He has died. 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: He was aged ninety six, joining US. Now we have 4 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: Rebecca Tune Wilkins, Bloomberg's Asia Government and Politics correspondent, to 5 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: talk about what Jiang's death might mean for China. While 6 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: he certainly lived to a ripe old age, how's he 7 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: being remembered in China? Well, Young oversaw a period of 8 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: extraordinary economic growth. Growth tripled under Young Young's leadership, and 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: he really has this sort of legacy of opening up China. 10 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: He resumed ties with the US. He was an English 11 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,480 Speaker 1: speaking leader, as well as overseeing this period of enormous prosperity, 12 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,959 Speaker 1: moving millions of people out of poverty UM and into 13 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: urban centers. And of course he was a critical instigator 14 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: in the development of China's real estate market, which of 15 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: course we are now grappling with the consequences of um 16 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: some twenty fourty years later. UM. The other side of 17 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: the thing, so, of course, is the timing of his 18 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: death is complicated deeply by the fact that there's so 19 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: much dissatisfaction and by contrast prospects. I think for Madni 20 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: ordinary Chinese people simply don't quite have those same optimism 21 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 1: as such, low morale around COVID zero and the costs 22 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: of that over the past three years. Yes, his history, 23 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: I believe in the party goes back to after the 24 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: Communists took power following the revolution. Did he encounter a 25 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: great deal of resistance from the conservatives within the Communist 26 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: Party as he began to make it a little bit 27 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: more of a market oriented economy in the early nineties, Well, 28 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 1: he certainly was put in place by Doung in part 29 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: to sort of combat that descent that broke out post 30 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: Tiana Man. And it is worth reminding and remembering just 31 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: now that it was in fact that the death of 32 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: a pro reform leader that triggered the pro tests at 33 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: Tiana Man, that were a reason for mass mourning and 34 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: to sort of mass organized meetings. Um. So there was 35 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: resistance among some of those, as you say, more conservative 36 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: parts of the Communist Party, but in fact that also 37 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: reflected the greater diversity of the party back then. Over 38 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: the last sort of decade undersea, we have seen a 39 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: real sort of tightening of the ranks. Um many of 40 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: sees rivals or rival factions have been said to be 41 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: pushed out. So in some senses, Um Tiang also presided 42 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: over a party that looked very different itself and gave 43 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: a bit more room to this sort of diversity of views, 44 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: saying you know that old saying that you know, history 45 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme. It's kind of curious 46 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: that this week we've had the biggest protests in China 47 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: since Tianamen Square. As the party taken any lessons from 48 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: how that was handled and applied them today, well, I 49 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 1: think the party will be very prepared for It's young's death. 50 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: There were sort of rumors circulating about ill health and 51 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: so on for the past month um and beyond that 52 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: in fact, so you know, the the history of the 53 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: death of great leaders often being accompanied by these room 54 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: to have sort of dissent and express dissatisfaction, as I 55 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: think a very well known risk. And of course, in 56 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: response to the protests that really sort of peaked over 57 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: the weekend last weekend, we have already seen very heavy 58 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: police presents um in major cities like Shanghai and Beijing 59 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: that have already dissuaded protesters from some of the really 60 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: active demonstrations that we we saw earlier. So when Young retired, 61 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: I think he amassed a lot of influence behind the scenes. 62 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: And one of the things I think that he was 63 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: instrumental in doing is picking the current president Shi Jinping. 64 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: I mean, do we know his view on the way 65 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: that she has been operating and particularly this historic move 66 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: for a third term. Well, the Chinese Communist Party has 67 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: always been somewhat of a black box, and that has 68 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: all but increased significantly I think under see. So we 69 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: don't really have sort of explicit insight, but there were 70 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: sort of said to have been a faction associated with 71 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: Jung Um you know that was sort of let's say, 72 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: more pro reform, more sort of pro open to private 73 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: business for example, um that was said to sort of 74 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: have waned in power over recent years and saying that 75 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: in some ways, um you know, although there is a 76 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: perception of Tiang and a sort of nostalgia of that 77 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: period that Jiang oversaw, he did also lay the groundwork 78 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: for some of the more sort of repressive and stricter 79 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: things that Seeds in Ping laid out, So for example, 80 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: the Great Firewall, um uh, and also sort of tightening 81 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: down on things like the Falling Gong and sort of 82 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: political descent more broadly. Yeah. And in terms of then, 83 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: how is Young going to be remembered by Western countries? Well, 84 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: I think there probably will be some nostalgia among the 85 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: West too. I mean all of this sort of extraordinary 86 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: footage that is re emerging of Young with the Clinton's, 87 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: many world leaders, all of these conferences. He was such 88 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: a colorful character. Um. He spoke English, which is not 89 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: particularly unique, but he really used it on the public 90 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: stage and was was really outspoken when it came to 91 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: sort of media appearances too, And I think there was 92 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: more optimism. Um, it's Young certainly set out to really 93 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 1: not just resume ties with the US, but try to 94 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: fourd sort of real business links as well as attract 95 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: a lot of foreign direct investment. And it was under 96 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: Dang that we did see this big surge in foreign 97 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: direct investment. So you do you think his time in 98 00:05:55,440 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: office will represent the high water mark of liberalization. Gosh, 99 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: that's a very big question. Um. I think if we 100 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: think about it from the past, the decade, the past 101 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: decade that we've seen undersea, and particularly the last three years, 102 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: it certainly doesn't look like we're moving back towards that 103 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: period of opening up. UM. I think there is such 104 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: a powerful contrast between the China that we see today 105 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: it's borders all but closed UM and many, in fact, 106 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: the most of its citizens are unable to actually leave 107 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: the country at all. With the China UM that Jiang 108 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: tried to oversee opening borders. UM. There was in much 109 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: sort of significant increase in in English language teaching, for example. UM. 110 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 1: So definitely quite a stark contrast. Just quickly, Rebecca, what 111 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: sort of send off do we anticipate for Jiang just 112 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: trying to do big funerals they typically there is typically 113 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: a certain amount of fanfare that goes on. UM. I 114 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: think there's a little bit of uncertainty how that will 115 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: play out because of coviz era and because of the restrictions. 116 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: Even though there is the sort of theay are these 117 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: hints now that we're moving into a new phase, I 118 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: think there will be highly on the alert for any 119 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:21,239 Speaker 1: kind of political sort of dissent and political activity because 120 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: of the proclivity of of deaths to garner this sort 121 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: of response. Alright. Rebecca Tune Wilkins, Bloomberg's Asia Government and 122 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: Politics correspondent, discussing the passing of Jiang Zemin, the former 123 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: Chinese leader. He has died at the age of ninety six.