1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey you welcome to stuff to blow 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: your mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas, 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: and we are here to talk to you about a 5 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: potentially fearful subs. Yeah, you know, FDR famously said we 6 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: have nothing to fear but fear itself. But did you 7 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: know that, like fear of a fear is a thing? 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: Is it a real thing? Or is the thing that 9 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: we made a phobia name for. I think it's like 10 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: a sanctioned phobia. It's phobio phobia. Because that's the thing 11 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: about phobias. You can create any of phobias that you want. 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: There's there's these endless lists online of phobias. But you 13 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: get into a different discussion if you start taking them 14 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: case by case and saying, is this actually a phobia? 15 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: Does that? Does this linguistically work as a name for 16 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: a phobia? It gets kind of muddy, it does get money, 17 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: And we're gonna floor this uh sort of muddy terrain today. 18 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: But first I wanted to mention that, according to our 19 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: read Wilson, PhD and spokesman for the American Psychological Association, 20 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: over their lifetimes, eleven percent of people will have a phobia, 21 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: which seems a bit high to me. I gotta say 22 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: I was surprised by that. Yeah, I've also read that 23 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: more than nineteen million Americans have a phobia. And uh, 24 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: and what are we talking about when we're talking about 25 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: a phobia. Well, it's we're talking about this earlier. It's 26 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: kind of one of those terms that gets thrown around 27 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: in the lexicon. It's kind of lazy usage of it 28 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: because a lot of us will say, oh, it's I 29 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: have a phobia of you know, cacti or whatever. We 30 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: don't really have a phobia, Like we can get out 31 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: of our house into our car and drive past a 32 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: cactus that will be perfectly fine most of us. Yeah, 33 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: I feel like there are a number of different so 34 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: called phobias. And this is not to say that people 35 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: do not have a legitimate bear or a legitimate phobia 36 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: of these things. But there's there's things that become kind 37 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: of cool and hip, like oh, I have a clown phobia, 38 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: and I don't know, you claim that you have a 39 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: real aversion to clowns, But I feel sometimes that's just 40 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: like a hip thing to say. It's like, oh, I'm afraid, 41 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: I would say, it's like a mild fear. I'm not 42 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 1: gonna I will avoid clowns in a crowd, yes, But 43 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: you don't leave your house every day fearful that you 44 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: will run into a clown. You don't look for clowns 45 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: under your bed, yes. And so that's where you really 46 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: see the difference between a fear and a phobia, because 47 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: a phobia can really just change your behavior. In fact, 48 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: it can impair your behavior. So sure, you might be scared. 49 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: You might have a fear of spiders. That's a big one, 50 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: because spiders are something worth being afraid of. I mean, 51 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: it's there's only point one percent of thirty five thousand 52 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: different species of spider in the world are poisonous. But 53 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,239 Speaker 1: you have some outstanding creepers out there, like the black 54 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: wood spider, the brown recluse. You grow up knowing about these. 55 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: It's it's perfectly normal and right and healthy to be 56 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 1: respectful and maybe a little afraid of the black widow spider. 57 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: So it's one thing to sort of have that quick 58 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: light go off in your head when you see a 59 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 1: spider in a barn and see like, all right, is 60 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: the black wood spider. No, okay, I'm probably okay. It's 61 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: a whole different thing to be afraid to leave your house, 62 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 1: to be to look under your bed, to look under 63 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 1: your pillows. Yeah right. One is sort of, as you say, respectful, 64 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: sort of a survival instinct. Hey, I'm not going to 65 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: go up to that and handle that that spider that 66 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: looks sort of terrible. And the other is I will 67 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: not leave my house tonight actor dark, because then I 68 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: will be prevented from seeing any spiders that may cross 69 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: my path. That's where it becomes super irrational, and that's 70 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: where we see phobias set in. And it is this 71 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: kind of persistence of outsized fears morphing into phobias. And 72 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: Michael Vacy, who is a professor of psychology at Ohio 73 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: State University and UH, he and a team of researchers 74 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: recruited fifty seven people who self identified as having a 75 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: spider phobia, and each participant then interacted at specific time 76 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: points over something like eight weeks with five different varieties 77 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: of tarantulas, varying in size from about one inch to 78 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: six inches long. Now, the reason why I bring up 79 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: size is because this is really important later on when 80 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: they asked them to estimate how large these spiders were. 81 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: It turns out that those with the more severe forms 82 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: or form of this phobia had a greater exaggeration of 83 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: the size. So there you see this idea, the thing 84 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: that you have a phobia about really sort of growing 85 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: in size in your mind. Yeah, the fear it gets 86 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: figgered that the the object of the fear is larger. 87 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 1: I keep thinking of somebody with just their living room, 88 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: and and how big is the spider in your living room? 89 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: Is it? Is it when it gets to the point 90 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: where it's so big that you're tripping over it, to 91 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: where you can't live a normal life in your living room, 92 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: then that's that's where you're you're seeing the phobia power. Yeah, 93 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: the phobia really alters your perception of that thing or 94 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: object or or animal. And mentioned tarantulas, because where the 95 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: tarantulas like to to to hide out under my bed, 96 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,239 Speaker 1: the tarantule in the wild, which you know you should 97 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: unless you have some issues with the spiders. You know 98 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: that they'll hang out in those little those little holes, 99 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: those little layers. Yeah, yeah, that's that's good. Okay, we 100 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: need to talk about this fearful thing because this is 101 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: where it gets into like strange terrain. And and we 102 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: wanted to bring this up um as an example of 103 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: something that may or may not really be a phobia, 104 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: and yet people have certain this will reactions to it. 105 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: And I'm talking about something as as innocent looking as potpourri, okay, 106 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: because that potpourri, beware it has these menacing seed pods, 107 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: at least some of them containing a rays of holes, 108 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: these tiny portals into the abyss. For some people, we 109 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: would think, you know, they could just fall into it 110 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: and never return. And I'm talking about tripophobia, fear of holes, yes, tripophobia. 111 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: And if you're listening to listening to this podcast on 112 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: the website, I'll include some links on there, including a 113 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: link to a gallery of some of these images that 114 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: we're discussing here, because there is something about this whole 115 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: subject of tripophobia and the fear of holes that you 116 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: look at some of these images and you do, or 117 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: at least in my case, I do feel a sort 118 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: of visceral reaction to some of them. Uh. And and 119 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: we'll discuss as we go, but but certainly that that 120 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: lotus seed head is one that was kind of shocking 121 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: because you do see it in potpourri everywhere. Do you 122 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: see it showing up in lend living rooms, You see 123 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: it showing up in in you know, beautiful still life pictures, 124 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: and uh, and it doesn't it never before seemed to 125 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: be a symbol of fear to me. Now, if here's 126 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: the thing about this, this tripophobia, is that before widespread 127 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: use of the Internet, there wasn't much chatter about a 128 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: fear of holes. But lo and be old. You have 129 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: this whole community, and you have people who start banning 130 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: together in their mutual hatred of holes and start sharing 131 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: these pictures. And what you have is a Facebook page 132 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: that's formed, an Internet dot name by the name of 133 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: triple phobia dot com, and scads of videos on the topic. 134 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: In fact, we recently made a video looking at some 135 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: of the footage of that, and all of a sudden 136 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: you have psychologists taking notice like is this a real thing? 137 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: And indeed there's there's a whole list of examples of 138 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: supposed triggers or triple phobia. The lotus seed head that 139 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: we mentioned, which is it seems to often be a 140 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: just the top of people's lists. Uh, and then also 141 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: things like bee hives, wasp nest, you know, situations where 142 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: you have a whole bunch of holes clustered together, and 143 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: some of them are capped off maybe or containing something, 144 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: especially the containing a squirming, you know, growing larva. I 145 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: could see where that would definitely factor in. Uh. Sometimes 146 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: you can even find these, of course, in food, like pancakes, 147 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: like the batter specifically bubbling. I never thought of that 148 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: as grotesque. I mean, that's just pancakes. I know, it's 149 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: just a temporary crater there before the whole thing firms up. Um. 150 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: But apparently people who say they suffer from from tripophobia 151 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: have phobia like symptoms like nausea or the feeling like 152 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: their skin is crawling or shuddering, or or there's even 153 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: descriptions of feeling like they're going to fall head first 154 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: into the hole. M hm. Another example that comes up 155 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: a lot is the surname toad, which is this uh, 156 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,359 Speaker 1: this really interesting toad creature with this kind of perforated 157 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: back with all these little holes in it that that 158 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: the young uh end up living in for that certain 159 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: period of time. So that's another example here we have 160 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of holes clustered in organic living tissue 161 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: with other living things inside of it. Yeah, and keep 162 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: that that example of mind for later when we talk 163 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: about the wise of this. For right now, I wanted 164 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: to mention that in two thousand and twelve, psychologists Jeff 165 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: Cole and Arnold Wilkins of the University of Essex in England, 166 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: they come to over all these anecdotal pictures that would 167 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: just make people weaken the knees in a bad way 168 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: when looking at holes. And they settled on the most 169 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: disturbing of these images, and it was of course a 170 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: dretted lotus seed head. And they showed two hundred and 171 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:34,239 Speaker 1: eighties six adults aged eighteen to fifty five the image, 172 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: and eleven percent of men and eighteen percent of women 173 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: described the seed head as uncomfortable or even repulsive to 174 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: look at, which they say, um, those figures are about 175 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: on par with the level of repulsion found in other 176 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: actual phobias. Now that's one study. Yeah, we should say, 177 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: So what is it about this this frog? I mean, 178 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: because there's nothing, I mean, what's so fearful about the 179 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: idea that this creature has some holes in its body 180 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: that the young live in them, and it's just like 181 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: a kangaroo situation. And everybody loves the kangaroo no matter 182 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: how um, you know, grotesque that might be in the 183 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: finer details. Yeah, but the kangaroo pouch isn't like a 184 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: gaping hole, right, it's all it's kind of tidy. It's 185 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: not like kind of I guess. I mean, I haven't 186 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: really gotten in there close, but there is a kangaroo 187 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: sanctuary very close to to Atlanta. By the way, did 188 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: kangaroos do kind of unsettle me a bit? I'm certainly 189 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: not saying I have a phobia of them or even 190 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: a fear of them, but every time I go to 191 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: the zoo, for the most part, they're not hopping around 192 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: like proper kangaroos and proper story books. They're laying around 193 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: and they always kind of look like like old men, 194 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: just you know, out there on the ground doing kind 195 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: of semi sexy poses. Oh, that is a little bit 196 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: kangar danger. Kangaro danger. For me, it's the boxing and 197 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: then seeing them taking bets on the side that terrible. 198 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: There's wallabees. It is what they do with their money, alright. 199 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: So Colin Wilkins, they said what's going on here? And 200 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: they said, hey, we think that there might be something 201 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: about the patterns, the spectral patterns found in some species 202 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: of dangerous or poisonous animals. And they did um some 203 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: analyzing of these patterns in their dimensions, and lo and behold, 204 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: some of them matched up to these other holes that 205 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: people would see, like in pancakes. Like you know, maybe 206 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: there was this poisonous plant with these these sort of 207 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: configurations on them that were meant to say, hey, I'm poisonous, 208 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: and the mathematical structure of it actually lined up with 209 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 1: some of the holes that they found that we're disturbing people. 210 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,119 Speaker 1: So the idea here is that we have an evolved 211 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: tendency to notice these patterns. Were pattern recognizing creatures. We 212 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: see this, and on some level we associated with dangerous organisms, 213 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: which seems a little bit like a long walk when 214 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: you consider something like Swiss cheese, yes, which I've never 215 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: found terrifying. No, I mean, it's kind of like it's cheese. 216 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: It's really evident that this cheese. But then again, we 217 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: are talking about cheese and a mouse needs to run 218 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: around inside of those. But we are talking about irrational 219 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: fears and phobias here. So another take was positive by 220 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: William Skaggs, writing for Scientific American and he said that 221 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: maybe it could be a misattribution of germ and disease 222 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: ridden sores on the human body. In other words, you 223 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: have crusty seed pods which could remind us of like 224 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: highly contagious weeping sores that we would want to steer 225 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: clear of. Now, this is the one that that that 226 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: I think I like the most, the one that seems 227 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: to sync with my brain when I'm looking at some 228 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: of these images, because the ones that disturbed me more 229 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: are the ones where someone has created like an artificial 230 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: image that shows these kind of clusters on the human body. 231 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: Uh And and it instantly makes me think of there, 232 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: I don't think there's really a horror movie monster that 233 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: really takes triple phobia by the horns and really goes 234 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: nuts with it. You can see a little of it 235 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: here and there. For this is Freddy Kruger. Krueger comes 236 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: to mind, who, of course as the you know, the 237 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: burn scarification and uh and there are parts of that 238 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: basic design that that have kind of this whole POxy 239 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: tendency to it. Well, and even the disgust thing that's elicited. 240 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: You could see that, right. And I even brought in 241 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: the seed pod for the video that I have, and 242 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: it has gashes along the side of it. Those are 243 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: its holes. And I do have to say, when I 244 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: looked at it closely, I was like, that kind of 245 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: reminds me of just like flesh wounds, like you know, 246 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: not necessarily like puzz fled holes or anything, but you 247 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: can look at it for a long time and start 248 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: to go Okay, maybe um now for me, though, the 249 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: more satisfying explanation, at least right now, because we don't 250 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: know whether or not this is it's a tried and 251 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: true phobia, is that social media may prime us to 252 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: assume the phobia for ourselves. And this is according to 253 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: Jennifer Ebossi, writing for Popular Science. She says quote an 254 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: element of so called emotional contagent seems to be at 255 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: work on Facebook, where some group members say they didn't 256 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: realize they were triplephobic until they started reading others comments 257 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: and clicking on the pictures. Yes, now, that one I 258 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: also strongly agree with, in part because I think it 259 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: harkens back to what I've said earlier about fear of 260 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: clowns or fear of puppets. Things like this, where again 261 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: not discudding this, some people might have actual, uh, legitimate 262 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: phobias regarding these things. But there is this this uh, 263 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: this idea that you go onto social media and you 264 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: you hear people talking about it, and then you see 265 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: enough example evidence that is put forth, say, images of 266 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: creepy clowns, images of creepy puppets, and you just assume 267 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: it for yourself. You you you catch the fake fear. 268 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: I agree that. I will tell you that my first, 269 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: the first nightmare I can recall, was of a jester. 270 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: And this is when it began. And it was a 271 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: jester that became really large and small. And then one 272 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: bill makes you a larger one who makes you small? 273 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: Are you sure? Do you? When we're watching Poulter Guys? 274 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: Because I feel like there's a creepy gesture puff that 275 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: ain't Poulter. That Poulter Guys was not even in existence. 276 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: So anyway the point is that these these are you know, 277 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: these are kind of like these troops that are just 278 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: in our brains and we work on such a subconscious level. 279 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: When we talked about this all the time, these subconscious 280 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: things that are going on that then serve up these revelations. 281 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: So and we all want to belong to a group. Right, 282 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: we want to be a part of a tribe, a 283 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: part of various tribes and uh and hey, here's this 284 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: tribe and the only entry fee is to admit that 285 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: I love that you're afraid of the lotus and pancakes 286 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: and pancakes. All Right, we're gonna take a quick break 287 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: and we get back. We're going to talk about the 288 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: more classic phobias. Um that types, the examples, and we're 289 00:15:50,240 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: talking about food suffers the most from phobias. Right, we're back. 290 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: We're talking about triple phobia, the fear of holes, but 291 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: we're also discussing just phobias in general, the nature of 292 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: phobias and the difference between a phobia in a fear. Yeah. 293 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 294 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: there are three types of phobias, and the first type 295 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: is social phobia, which apparently afflicts fifteen million people in 296 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: the US. And we're we're talking about really our social 297 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: anxiety disorders. So the fear of public speaking, um, fear 298 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: of using our public restroom with others, or eating with others, 299 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: or just in more general cases, being with others. Because 300 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: there's that anxiety of I'll make some sort of misstep 301 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: or you know, I'm experiencing this panic because I feel 302 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: like there's this social element that I can't handle. And 303 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: sometimes it can be an actual precursor for agrophobia. Okay. 304 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: An agrophobia, of course, is the intense anxiety in public 305 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: places where an escape might be difficult. So a crowded room, 306 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: a a party in which there is only one exit 307 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: and you have to go all the way through the 308 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: party again to make it out. Uh, situations like that, 309 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 1: I mean, they're various takes on this. You can easily imagine. Yeah, 310 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: and a lot of people think, oh, it's just a 311 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: fear of open spaces, but that's not it. It's the 312 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: fear that you will have a panic attack and it 313 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: people will see you and you won't be able to 314 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: get help in time, or you know this, this full 315 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 1: blown meltdown is going to happen in the middle of 316 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: this very public space and a Gooraphobia affects twice as 317 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: many women as men, and if left untreated in extreme cases, 318 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: it means that person is going to become housebound. And 319 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: then there are specific phobias. This is where we have 320 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: an irrational fear of specific objects or situations. So, um, 321 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: this is where we see for instance, of course, a 322 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: fear of spiders, ratnophobia, it's a prime example of this. 323 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 1: This is a very specific thing and you have an 324 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: intense anxiety related to it. Yeah, and fear of injections, um, 325 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: such as people who faint at the side of blood 326 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: or needle fear. Flying is another big one. Now we 327 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: mentioned the stats already, Uh, proportionately, who suffers you know, 328 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: how many people nineteen million Americans suffer from phobias. But 329 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: let's break that down a little more. Who specifically, who 330 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: are the prime candidates for phobias out there in a population. Well, alcoholics, 331 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 1: it turns out, can be up to ten times more 332 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: likely to suffer from a phobia than those who are 333 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: not alcoholics, and phobic individuals can be twice as likely 334 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: to be addicted to alcoholis those who have never been phobics. 335 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: So you look at it and at first it's kind 336 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: of like a the dog wagging the tail. Yeah, that's 337 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: that's what instantly comes to mind. It's like, are they 338 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 1: is this individual afraid of of intense social situations so 339 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 1: they drink or is it the you know which comes first? Well, 340 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: I was thinking about it in context of the statistic 341 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: because according to two thousand and seven Anxiety and Depression 342 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: Association of America study, up to thirty six percent of 343 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: social ohobious sufferers wait ten years or more to seek 344 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: professional help. And I thought, what do people do when 345 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: they when they're not actively seeking professional help? They tend 346 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: to self medicate. And so that's a good sort of 347 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 1: um place to start when you look at alcoholism and 348 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: phobia is because what helps, at least in the short 349 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 1: term is this the dative effect of alcohol. The problem 350 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: with it, of course, is that you have the ill 351 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: effects of alcohol use, which actually compounds your feelings of 352 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: anxiety and lead to that person seeking the alcohol again 353 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 1: to try to quiet the mind or escape from those 354 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: feelings of anxiety, which then of course leads to routine 355 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: which leads to addiction. And the spider in the room 356 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. Yeah. Now, another 357 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 1: take on this is that we have a genetic predisposition 358 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: for certain phobias that it's passed down from parent to 359 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 1: child to child and on and on. Yeah, because it 360 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: turns out that immediate family members of people with phobias 361 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: are about three times more likely to have a phobia 362 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: than those without a family history. Now, some of that 363 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: could be learned behavior. The mom is always acting afraid 364 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: of dogs, and therefore she passes this fear onto the 365 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: child exactly. But if you look at the animal world, 366 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: you might kind of look at this this idea of 367 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: it being genetically predisposed within the individual. It's so there's 368 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: a two thousand and thirteen study by Brian Dias from 369 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: the Department of Psychiatry at and University, and that was 370 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: published in Nature Neuroscience, and what they did is they 371 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: had researchers trained miced fear the smell of cherry blossom 372 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: using electric shocks before allowing them to breed. Now, the 373 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: offspring showed fearful responses to the odor of cherry blossom 374 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: compared to a neutral odor, despite never having encountered a 375 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: cherry blossom before. That in and of itself is interesting, 376 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: but the following generation also showed the same behavior. And 377 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: this effect continued even if the mice had been fathered 378 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: through artificial insemination, and the brains of the trained mice 379 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: in their offspring also showed structural changes in areas of 380 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 1: oter detection. So Professor Marcus Pembury, who is a pediatric 381 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: geneticist at University College London, said that the work providing 382 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: quote compelling evidence for the biological transmission of memory. He said, 383 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: quote it addresses constitutional fearfulness that is highly relevant to phobia's, 384 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: anxiety and post traumatic stress disorders, plus the controversial subject 385 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: of transmission of the memory of ancestral experience down the generations. 386 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: So there's there's enough there. I think that you can 387 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: sort of say, Okay, maybe there's something going on, but 388 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: those are rats. What about humans? Is there an example? Well, 389 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: this brings us back to spiders. Um, you know I 390 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: mentioned before that only point one percent of the thirty 391 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: five thousand different kinds of spiders in the world are poisonous, 392 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: but enough of them are a problem, right right that 393 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: you only it only takes one encounter with a black 394 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: widow to to teach uh an organism a lesson. So 395 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: evolutionary biologist have long wondered if our fear of spiders 396 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: and snakes is hardwired. So in two thousand one, a 397 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: Swedish study actually made a case for an inborn spider 398 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,199 Speaker 1: aversion through an experiment involving flash cars of fearful or 399 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: non and non fearful images. According to the study, a 400 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: statistically significant number of subjects identified the pictures of spiders 401 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: and snakes more swiftly they did than they did pictures 402 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: of flowers and the like. Subjects who claim to suffer 403 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: from a ratnophobia identified the spiders even faster. So again, 404 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 1: the idea is that there are dangerous organisms out there 405 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: in the world that we have over time learned to avoid. 406 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,919 Speaker 1: We end up with it hardwired in our genetics, and 407 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: therefore we encounter a snake snake when it's counter a spider, 408 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,239 Speaker 1: it's gonna give us pause because what we're gonna need 409 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: to identify them, and then there's going to be an 410 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: innate fear of the more poisonous varieties. Yeah. We we 411 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: had a whole episode on epigenetics as well that that 412 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: looked at generations who um withstood some some very difficult 413 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: physical emotional traumas, and then later on the following generations 414 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: had essentially the the genes switched on for different diseases. 415 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: And so you look at that, and then you look 416 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 1: at these two different cases and you can sort of 417 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: see how this could nest itself within the DNA of organisms. 418 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: And speaking of generational abuse. When we come back, we're 419 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 1: gonna touch on another, uh potential cause here a phobias, 420 00:23:48,160 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: and that relates to child ABU really mean Glynn, a 421 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: trauma researcher at the University of Amsterdam and an author 422 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: of a two thousand and four study on phobias and 423 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: alcohol found that childhood abuse we're talking about sexual, physical, 424 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: or both could play a role in the later development 425 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: of what he calls coexisting psycho pathologies among alcoholics. So, 426 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,679 Speaker 1: in other words, phobias could develop if you had these 427 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: types of abuse as a child, and they kind of 428 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 1: go hand in hand. And uh. They collected data on 429 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty five people who were described as 430 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: alcoholics d twenty two men and thirty three women, and 431 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: they were all applying for treatment in a center for 432 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: substance use disorders. So all that data that they collected 433 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 1: was to assess to what degree they have phobias or disorders, 434 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,719 Speaker 1: And what they found was that alcoholic patients who reported 435 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: childhood abuse against sexual or sexual and physical also reported 436 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:03,679 Speaker 1: social phobia, agoraphobia, and PTSD more often than patients with 437 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 1: no history of abuse, and recast this idea again of 438 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 1: addiction and and alcohol use. We tend to look at 439 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: an alcoholic as just someone who doesn't have any control 440 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: over their will power, when in fact you have these 441 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: underlying conditions that aren't always treated or the root you know, 442 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: the root cause isn't the root cause isn't always looked 443 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: at in terms of like, how can we really address 444 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: what's going on with the individual? Indeed, so I hope 445 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,479 Speaker 1: this discussion of phobias, where they come from, how they 446 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: passed down, that it that it cast phobias in its 447 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: proper light, not merely as a quirky character trait that 448 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: you assume or some mild aversion, but something something more 449 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: complex and something deeper and more destructive happening in the 450 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: human psyche. Indeed, and I mean, is triple phobia a 451 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: real phobia? We know we don't have enough data or 452 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: studies behind it, but we can certainly recognize that some 453 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: people actually do feel uh, you know, the sort of 454 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: sense of disgust or just even like that existential angst 455 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: of being. And that's why I thought the fear of 456 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: holes was such an apt metaphor, because at the end 457 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: of the day, we all sort of have this fear 458 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: of the the whole that is the unknown, that the 459 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: void um death really in this idea of walking through 460 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,239 Speaker 1: a portal into the unbound. You know, A scene from 461 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: a film that instantly came to mind when we started 462 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 1: putting this topic together is the scene in the classic 463 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: Flash Gordon film where Flash is hanging out with Timothy 464 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: Dalton and a treehouse and the Treehouse planet, and they 465 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: have this ride of passage where the men have to 466 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 1: stick their arms into one of the holes in this 467 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,479 Speaker 1: big kind of wooden true rock type of contraption. Kind 468 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: of looks like a like something Fraggles would pop out off, 469 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,919 Speaker 1: you know, looks like a prop from Fraggle Rock kind of, 470 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 1: except there's some sort of horrible like wood scorpion inside 471 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: it may or may not stain your your hand with 472 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: it with a lethal stain when you put your hand 473 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: your arm in there. That was a pretty fantastic scene. 474 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: She shows me and this is great, and then they 475 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: go they go sort of preaching down this giant branch. Yeah. Yeah, 476 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: And I mean the whole film is just a cavalcade 477 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: of fantastic, cheesy set pieces all set to queen. So yeah, 478 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 1: you haven't seen it at hi, you can't go wrong. 479 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: With that al right, you guys can find us at 480 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: the Mother typically your Mind dot com. Yep, yep. You 481 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: will find all the podcast episodes there, you will find videos, 482 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: you will find blog post galore, and you'll find links 483 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: out to the various social media accounts that we may maintain. 484 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: And if you have thoughts on phobias, uh, please do 485 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: share them with us, And you can do that by 486 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: sending us an email to blow the mind at how 487 00:27:55,600 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. For more on this and thousands 488 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: of other topics, visit how staff works dot com.