Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season three point thirty two,
Speaker 1: episode two.
Speaker 2: Of their Daily's I Guys Stay production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2: This is a podcast where we take a deep dive
Speaker 2: into America's shared consciousness. And it is Tuesday, April second,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: Four, the day after April Fool's Day, wherein we all
Speaker 1: admit they got our ass. They did get our ass
Speaker 1: in some cases.
Speaker 3: I went to seven eleven and I demanded they give
Speaker 3: me this the hot dog flavor of sparkling water, and they.
Speaker 1: Called the cops. Yeah, that video's going viral.
Speaker 3: You really well, Yeah, I probably should have kept my
Speaker 3: clothes on, but I was really upset. Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 3: I will say Also, April second is National DIY Day
Speaker 3: for all of us that tried to do it ourselves,
Speaker 3: National ferret Day, National Peanut butter and Jelly Day. And
Speaker 3: also I'm wondering if, because this is the day after
Speaker 3: fooling people and being very deceptive, it's also National Reconciliation Day.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, I've got a lot of apologizing to do.
Speaker 1: Oh no, and I've got a lot of forgiving to do.
Speaker 1: Exactly know, if you heard our trending episode yesterday, I
Speaker 1: wasn't kind about my kids April fools pranks. Yes, I'll
Speaker 1: show you the sign myles on me.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Not not nice.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's written with gusto too. I can tell it.
Speaker 1: Exclamation point that it was. It was after a kick me,
Speaker 1: so they built to it. It wasn't just like you know,
Speaker 1: this guy is a piss pig.
Speaker 3: Soccer action. Yeah, but yeah.
Speaker 1: So we made it through April Fool's Day and to
Speaker 1: Peanut Butter and Jelly Day. Peanut butter and jelly yeah,
Speaker 1: together and never never heard of such a thing. That's
Speaker 1: that's wild. My name is Jack O'Brien aka Kangaroo Jack O'Brien. Yes,
Speaker 1: I am also known as Kangaroo Jack o' brian.
Speaker 4: Pretty frequently.
Speaker 1: I'm compared to that film because I often lure you
Speaker 1: in with the promise of a rapping kangaroo and then
Speaker 1: it turns out it's just something that I dreamed.
Speaker 3: Oh good, that's not in the movie.
Speaker 4: Huh it is.
Speaker 1: It's a dream sequence.
Speaker 3: Oh but it's not a rapping. It's not about a rapping.
Speaker 1: It's not about a rapping kangaroo.
Speaker 3: Who's that Anthony Edwards?
Speaker 1: Anthony Edwards and the kid who played the chubby kid
Speaker 1: from or Stand By Me. Jerry O'Connell.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yep. Oh, Michael Shannon is also in it.
Speaker 3: Wow yeah early Michael Shannon, Wow wow wow, just bringing.
Speaker 1: The I mean Michael Shannon intensity.
Speaker 3: To cannot reget this rapping kangaroo to be very entertaining, like,
Speaker 3: oh god, sorry, Michael Shannon.
Speaker 1: That AKA courtesy of the Frequent News Ghost makes sense
Speaker 1: that they're good at ak is because they're handle an
Speaker 1: ak of this show. Everybody's always saying, hey, have you
Speaker 1: checked out the Frequent News Go, I mean the daily
Speaker 1: site case.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: Anyways, I'm throwing to be joined as always by my
Speaker 1: co host, mister Miles.
Speaker 3: Grass Miles Gray AKA, ooh wee, I have unbreakable glasses.
Speaker 3: Oh oh, I dare you to try.
Speaker 5: I don't care that they just broke anyway, I don't
Speaker 5: care about that. Shout out to the Ray J's Unbreakable
Speaker 5: Sunglasses video where he's asking Speedy to break his sunglass.
Speaker 3: Because they don't break them, and then when he breaks them,
Speaker 3: he said, I don't care. It's just the best, just
Speaker 3: the best sequence of events. Shout out to Max r
Speaker 3: on the Discord for for memorializing that in one of
Speaker 3: my favorite Weezer songs.
Speaker 4: So appreciate amazing.
Speaker 1: Well, We're thrilled, Miles to be joined in our third
Speaker 1: seats by an affordable housing advocate who is working to
Speaker 1: help address modern day redlining by trying to overturn the
Speaker 1: Thurmond Amendment. Please welcome to the show.
Speaker 6: Useuf dog. Well, I appreciate that. I wish I had
Speaker 6: an aka I could reference, but uh, it's just you.
Speaker 3: So it's just sometimes sometimes the name is enough. You know,
Speaker 3: it proceeds, you know, Valley of the Doll.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Let's not think about dollar arts by hole to bring
Speaker 3: it back to the nineties. Is that the one some day?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Well, think is that? Is that doll parts? I don't
Speaker 3: not a lot of Courtney Love Cobaine fans in here.
Speaker 4: Huh okay, I was.
Speaker 1: I was Cobaine, but I think Hoole went a little
Speaker 1: too hard for me. Look, man, I'm still getting over
Speaker 1: this idea of peanut, butter and jelly together.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's that's crazy.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yep, you will ache like I that's doll parts,
Speaker 3: all parts. Thank you nineteen ninety four brain. You're welcome. Uh,
Speaker 3: but yusef, where are you coming to us.
Speaker 6: From Allentown, Pennsylvania?
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, I mean it's kind of a seminole place
Speaker 3: in terms of housing when we're talking about housing, right, I.
Speaker 6: Mean, certainly, I think it's the type of city that's
Speaker 6: emblematic of a lot of our cities across the country
Speaker 6: that really are a tale of two cities. Right. There's
Speaker 6: places in this community that are vibrant and thriving, and
Speaker 6: there's a lot of other parts in the city that
Speaker 6: have quite frankly been left behind.
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, Yeah, oh man, I'm really looking forward to
Speaker 3: our discussion because, like as you were saying before we came,
Speaker 3: you came on, you know, like when we have these
Speaker 3: guests on to talk about a specific subject, I mean,
Speaker 3: just the thermin Amendment just opens the door to so
Speaker 3: many different conversations, whether it's about our car sol system,
Speaker 3: whether it's about housing, how we view housing, and even
Speaker 3: how America even does its threat assessments, and they typically
Speaker 3: just end up being just overtly racist. And this is
Speaker 3: no exception, There's no exception.
Speaker 1: What is the attitude in Allentown towards the Billy Joel song.
Speaker 6: One of ambivalents because it's a good song, right, So
Speaker 6: it's kind of hard not to like the song. But
Speaker 6: I think the city has really done a tremendous job
Speaker 6: of reinventing itself, and so you know, there's a sense
Speaker 6: that that song really doesn't represent the spirit in the
Speaker 6: future of Allentown today. So there's a level of ambivalence.
Speaker 6: But it's Jill Billy Joel, so you can't really, you know,
Speaker 6: hate it too much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he said opens up, well we're living
Speaker 1: here in Allentown, and you know, I mean that's those
Speaker 1: are the only lyrics that I know. So I was
Speaker 1: going to try and say something profound about it, but okay,
Speaker 1: I can't remember any of the other parts. Something about
Speaker 1: a factory town.
Speaker 3: There, you remember what that song about?
Speaker 1: Incisive commentary like, well, we're living here in Allentown is
Speaker 1: a lyric in Allentown there? It is all right, great, Well,
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about housing in a moment, but
Speaker 1: before we get into our expert get area of expertise,
Speaker 1: we do like to get to know you a little
Speaker 1: bit better by asking what's either something from your search
Speaker 1: history that's revealing about who you are or something that
Speaker 1: you have recently screencapped short first screen captured that is
Speaker 1: revealing about screen shot it even green shot a screen
Speaker 1: shot it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so my last screen shot was actually a list
Speaker 6: of Republicans on the Financial Services Committee, so directly related
Speaker 6: to this work on the the Therm and Amendment. As
Speaker 6: I'm sure we're going to get into this is this
Speaker 6: is going to be a big month because we have
Speaker 6: legislation that's going to be introduced, but we're trying to
Speaker 6: make it bipartisan, and so I'm doing a lot of
Speaker 6: work trying to identify folks on the right who might
Speaker 6: be interested in this common sense reform to extend opportunity.
Speaker 4: How's it going? How are you feeling about that?
Speaker 1: How you see any any names on there that you're
Speaker 1: like they seem to exist in a version of reality.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 6: I tend to be an optimistic person. I always feel
Speaker 6: like the thing with legislation is the key is to
Speaker 6: actually get in front of these people. So for me,
Speaker 6: the challenges how do you how do you look at
Speaker 6: this list and how do you mine your network to
Speaker 6: get in the door. Because you believe that if you
Speaker 6: can just get in front of these people and explain
Speaker 6: what you're trying to do, common sense will prevail and
Speaker 6: you'll get through, right.
Speaker 3: Is that do you think that's I mean, I guess
Speaker 3: there's something with housing. How do you how do you
Speaker 3: sort of tailor this argument to appeal to someone like
Speaker 3: Ron Johnson who has dealt in all kinds of really
Speaker 3: backwards thinking out loud when it comes to things like
Speaker 3: the carcial system or race and things like that. Do
Speaker 3: you have to is he actually be like, oh, that's
Speaker 3: messed up, like people who just had a drug charge
Speaker 3: can't get in the housing? Like yeah, I want to
Speaker 3: do that? Or is it? Or like how do you
Speaker 3: thread that needle? Because from my perspective, like what do
Speaker 3: you tell Ron Johnson to try and get him to
Speaker 3: see the light in terms of something like this is
Speaker 3: common sense reform, like that there's no net negative here.
Speaker 3: This is like about just like making things a little
Speaker 3: bit more equitable. And they'll be like, what is that woke?
Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm curious what sort of what's the what's
Speaker 3: the dance with something like that?
Speaker 6: Well, so I think first of all, you always have
Speaker 6: to contextualize this in the framework of opportunity, right, because
Speaker 6: in theory, everybody wants to extend opportunity to people in
Speaker 6: this country in theory, and so it was really about legislation,
Speaker 6: like the Thermin Amendment denies people have been justice impacted
Speaker 6: the ability to be judged based on market measures and
Speaker 6: assessments of risk. Right. So, the market has a way
Speaker 6: of predicting or suggesting how reliable you're going to be
Speaker 6: as a creditor. Right So it's your credit score, it's
Speaker 6: it's your income history. There's a lot of different measures
Speaker 6: that objectively, the market is signs to you to suggest
Speaker 6: your risk profile. The Thermin Amendment nullifies all of that.
Speaker 6: And so the case that I made was, Hey, give
Speaker 6: these folks access to the free market and the free
Speaker 6: market mechanisms of risk like everyone else. And you know,
Speaker 6: and I made the analogy that I can literally go
Speaker 6: to a bank right now and borrow a million dollars.
Speaker 6: I can do that, but I could not secure a
Speaker 6: townhome apartment because of my twenty five year old drug
Speaker 6: distribution conviction. That just didn't seem to make a lot
Speaker 6: of sense. Wow, oh, now does that translate to actual support?
Speaker 6: I mean that's the right, right, I mean, anyone anyone
Speaker 6: can sit across from you and say, yeah, that doesn't
Speaker 6: make sense. But what you really need are folks who
Speaker 6: are going to put some capital on the table and
Speaker 6: help you affect this change.
Speaker 1: Yeah, abstraction is the root of the problems that are
Speaker 1: happening where it's like easier to just make somebody a concept,
Speaker 1: you know that's like on your screen or like a
Speaker 1: you know, a number on a spreadsheet. And when you
Speaker 1: actually get in a room with a person and they
Speaker 1: have to deal with the fact that you know, you
Speaker 1: are a human being, it at least for that time
Speaker 1: can make a big change. But then after the fact,
Speaker 1: as a matter of like getting them not to go
Speaker 1: back to the comfortable thing of you know, a system
Speaker 1: that seems to lend itself to just abstracting people and
Speaker 1: treating people as like values on a spreadsheet. So yeah,
Speaker 1: doing truly the difficult important work. What is something that
Speaker 1: you think is underrated?
Speaker 6: I would say, and primarily because I'm a father of
Speaker 6: a fifteen year old, and I would say youth sports.
Speaker 6: So she plays a lot of sports, takes up a
Speaker 6: ton of my time, but it really just gives her
Speaker 6: a great outlet to develop confidence, learn the priorities of discipline.
Speaker 6: So I meet young people all the time who aren't
Speaker 6: in organized sports for a variety of reasons, and I
Speaker 6: just think we should do more of that. Like when
Speaker 6: I was a kid, I mean, even though I wasn't
Speaker 6: in organized sports leagues, like we would always just go
Speaker 6: to the park and play pickup basketball or something like this.
Speaker 6: And now, I mean, God, if I didn't force her
Speaker 6: to play sports, she would be on her phone on
Speaker 6: TikTok or something literally ungodly hours a day. So I'm
Speaker 6: a big believer in youth sports.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like how does cause I have very early experiences
Speaker 1: with youth sports and it's hard to like maintain sanity
Speaker 1: and maintain your distance from it. Like do you find
Speaker 1: yourself just swallowing your tongue while you're at I think
Speaker 1: your daughter plays tennis.
Speaker 6: Tennis and basketball, and I would say, your kids are
Speaker 6: gonna let you get away with voicing your opinion when
Speaker 6: they're five and six or seven. Try that at our
Speaker 6: high school back you won't be back there. So I
Speaker 6: think you learn just as they get older, what they're
Speaker 6: comfortable with. And at the end of the day, if
Speaker 6: if they don't want to hear you, you know, yelling
Speaker 6: your feedback, you're gonna have to find another way to
Speaker 6: give it.
Speaker 3: That is so wild because like, I can't remember half
Speaker 3: of my teammates from like some of the organized sports
Speaker 3: I played as a kid, but I remember the loudest
Speaker 3: parents that were not my friends. I'm like, damn, bro,
Speaker 3: mister Borna is going the fuck off again. And you're
Speaker 3: like and you're like, you're like, yo, man, it's cool.
Speaker 3: Your dad's so intense, and it's just like, no.
Speaker 1: Bro, just like.
Speaker 8: Does his look his look that he just gave I
Speaker 8: swear I see that every basketball Yeah, your daughter in particular, No, no, No,
Speaker 8: I've learned my lesson.
Speaker 6: She will. Yeah, I have to be very deliberate in
Speaker 6: what I'm doing. But there are some other parents that, oh, man,
Speaker 6: these guys and it's typically the dad. Yeah, they're they're
Speaker 6: all in and you're like, whoa, take it down a
Speaker 6: little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, How do you deal with the screen side
Speaker 1: of it, like the other side? You know, it sounds
Speaker 1: like you're thinking of youth sports as like sort of
Speaker 1: one weapon on the side of good against you know,
Speaker 1: the screens just taking over. Like I heard in talking
Speaker 1: to a parent this weekend, they were like, yeah, it
Speaker 1: kind of feels messed up that like one of the
Speaker 1: things that like you have as a parent is be like,
Speaker 1: no iPad. Then if you're not going to do that,
Speaker 1: no iPad, then we're gonna like basically we're going to
Speaker 1: take your drugs away.
Speaker 3: Right right right? You know, yeah right your iPad?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah, But like, how how has that process
Speaker 1: been for you as a parent of fifteen year old?
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, as the parent of any fifteen year old
Speaker 6: is going to tell you, it has to be something
Speaker 6: serious if you're going for the phone, because you know
Speaker 6: all hell is going to break out, So it has
Speaker 6: to be level ten where it's just like, okay, the phone,
Speaker 6: give me the phone, and you're willing to stand on it.
Speaker 6: But honestly, I have to be very intentional because otherwise
Speaker 6: you're gonna say give me the phone and you're gonna
Speaker 6: encounter a headache that you're just like, man, this wasn't
Speaker 6: worth it for me, but.
Speaker 3: My phone too.
Speaker 6: Actually exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: What what's something you think is overrated?
Speaker 6: Oh? By far? The Stanley water bottles. That's just ridiculous.
Speaker 6: So yeah, my daughter has a couple of them, which
Speaker 6: I refuse to buy any of them. But it's sure
Speaker 6: it's a I'm sure it's a high quality water bottle. Right,
Speaker 6: I'm familiar with the company, but there's a whole bunch
Speaker 6: of high quality water bottles that will keep your beverages
Speaker 6: cold or keep them warm, and they don't have that
Speaker 6: same price point. So I just think those things are
Speaker 6: terribly overrated.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like there were due for the backlash
Speaker 1: where some other brand like kind of pops up. We've
Speaker 1: talked about what's the od one, the o wala Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh walla. Yeah, that one's pretty good, but doesn't seem
Speaker 1: like it's quite.
Speaker 3: The straw built in. Yeah, it's just but I mean
Speaker 3: it just shows you again like it was all because
Speaker 3: of the marketing genius at Stanley, like they pressed it's
Speaker 3: just all they just want full court press on influencers.
Speaker 3: That's gonna completely inform the market of what's cool. And
Speaker 3: when someone's like, yo, I got this limited edition one.
Speaker 3: It's the Philippines exclusive color way of a fucking cup,
Speaker 3: and people are like, ah, I'll pick five dollars for it.
Speaker 3: On the on the secondary market, it's yeah, it becomes
Speaker 3: this other thing. But yeah, I mean I feel like,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe yeah, there's maybe there's a company that
Speaker 3: comes in. It's like we got the two dollars cup, right,
Speaker 3: everyone should be buying. But then it's like, but it
Speaker 3: is made of lead, So we just be really clear
Speaker 3: on that. Yeah, there's like lead in one of the
Speaker 3: parts of it and that and I know that that
Speaker 3: caused some people, especially in Los Angeles to clutch their
Speaker 3: yoga blocks and be like, oh, okay, right.
Speaker 1: Anymore stupid La and their soft hippie dippy ways. They're
Speaker 1: not happy drinking water out of lead cups.
Speaker 3: There's just a part of the cup you don't interact
Speaker 3: with the part that has lead in it. Okay, that's
Speaker 3: the thing that many of the Stanley the Stanley stands.
Speaker 1: Plus it will help you if you're getting dental X rays.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: True, it makes sense, like we needed something that could
Speaker 1: appear with you in like a shot, you know, like
Speaker 1: when you're like in a you know, shoes were the
Speaker 1: thing that was the most kind of captured by the
Speaker 1: influencer market for a long time. And then like, but
Speaker 1: you can't have your shoes in like a selfie with
Speaker 1: you unless you're really flexible. So the Stanley water bottle
Speaker 1: like answers that.
Speaker 3: It's it's like a bag or something because you can
Speaker 3: have your whole outfit on. Let them know. There's all
Speaker 3: my signifiers. And also I got the quencher is the
Speaker 3: forty ounce m hmm. Yeah. I think I'm just intimidated
Speaker 3: by like things that are that cumbersome too. It's like, bro,
Speaker 3: I can't, fuck I can't. I can't walk around with
Speaker 3: a gigantic cup all the time, like like in the house,
Speaker 3: I have like a normal cup. I can just keep refilling.
Speaker 3: But something that big. I remember even when I was
Speaker 3: like at the height of like my water drinking, I
Speaker 3: like tapped out of like thirty ounces like.
Speaker 1: That, and we're glad we got you back from the edge.
Speaker 1: Thanks and touch and go there. Yeah, those meetings are helping.
Speaker 3: I had to keep going to the bathroom.
Speaker 6: I'm like, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I usually that's the sign of a different problem, but
Speaker 1: it was, yeah, like, no, you can't stop drinking water.
Speaker 6: So there's a perfect in the thermin event.
Speaker 3: Yeah, is he beaming up in the bathroom? No, man,
Speaker 3: he's drinking forty ounces of liquid at a time. We
Speaker 3: told him it said danger to his kidneys, but he
Speaker 3: doesn't listen.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: We found one doctor quote doctor in quote who says
Speaker 1: that he needs forty ounces of water between me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, is that even possible?
Speaker 1: Bro?
Speaker 3: My favorite doctor Bradley from Sublime forty Ounces of Freedom.
Speaker 3: That's how I that's how, that's how.
Speaker 1: I think that's what that song was actually about.
Speaker 3: It's Padrinck and forty.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: All right, let's take a quick break and we'll come
Speaker 1: back and we will get into it.
Speaker 4: We'll be right back.
Speaker 3: And we're back.
Speaker 1: And so we've been talking about the Thurman Amendment, and
Speaker 1: so just to confirm off top, the thermon we're talking
Speaker 1: about here is not beloved Yankees catcher Thurman Munson. No,
Speaker 1: it's not even kill Bill star Uma Thurman. It is,
Speaker 1: in fact, a much worse Thurmond Strom. Is that correct,
Speaker 1: segregationist Strom. Thurmond is who this amendment is named after.
Speaker 3: Indeed, Yeah, there's a really interesting Yeah. He just threw
Speaker 3: it out there in the eighties and kind of completely
Speaker 3: changed the course of our housing policies, because right when
Speaker 3: this was happening, this was about making amendments of the
Speaker 3: Fair Housing Act, where it's like, well, maybe we need
Speaker 3: to add a new category of protected class disability, and
Speaker 3: then he's like, ah, I got one, I got one,
Speaker 3: I got one. What if we strip it away from
Speaker 3: drug dealers.
Speaker 1: How about that, y'all?
Speaker 3: Is strong Therman back at it again. I know I
Speaker 3: took a big o in nineteen sixty four by preventing
Speaker 3: the Civil Rights Act from happening, but I never let
Speaker 3: it go of that anger, and I'm trying to get
Speaker 3: it back in today.
Speaker 1: In the eighties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was nineteen eighty eight, was it?
Speaker 6: Yeah? It was eighty eight. And what's interesting about it
Speaker 6: is I was in contact with his archives at Clemson University,
Speaker 6: and so I said, Hey, I'm working on this legislation.
Speaker 6: Can you send me anything you have about this particular amendment.
Speaker 6: And you would think, you know, there'd be communications or
Speaker 6: correspondence with trained associations or advocates or impacted people. Literally,
Speaker 6: there was nothing, nothing in the archives except one piece
Speaker 6: of paper, and it was his remarks that he delivered
Speaker 6: after the passage of the nineteen eighty eight Fairhousing Amendments Act.
Speaker 6: And in his written remarks, he anticipated this amendment failing
Speaker 6: it literally says, and while my amendment did not pass,
Speaker 6: blah blah blah. He actually crossed that out and in
Speaker 6: handwritten he hand wrote, I'm glad my amendment passed and
Speaker 6: blah blah, blah. So he didn't. I don't even think
Speaker 6: he anticipated this passing.
Speaker 1: Right, Wow, that is super. I had no idea that
Speaker 1: because I know, like, oh wow, we're racist racist in
Speaker 1: this country. Damn all right, guys, thank you.
Speaker 3: Oh I don't even know. I'm gonna be real, man.
Speaker 3: I'm used to going out there saying see that going
Speaker 3: this way. Yeah, I used to say something so flagrant
Speaker 3: They're like, strong, shut up, and then I'm like, oh okay,
Speaker 3: but then they passed. Let me play the clip though,
Speaker 3: from just him at the lectern, basically saying like this
Speaker 3: is this is this is what I'm proposing, little strong therment.
Speaker 7: One conviction is sufficient, my man. Was simple says that
Speaker 7: one conviction is sufficient for landlord to refuse to rent
Speaker 7: to a drug dealer. It's that simple always, my colleagues,
Speaker 7: to vote for Amendment Faith is to do so makes
Speaker 7: the rights of law abiding citizens meaningless. Drug dealers deserve
Speaker 7: no federal protection.
Speaker 1: And here we are voice brought to you straight from
Speaker 1: the eighteen eighties, by the way. Oh yeah, just everything
Speaker 1: about his voice and accent. I was like, is that
Speaker 1: being played on a phonograph from like a retired Civil
Speaker 1: War general. I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 3: The suit he's wearing, if there was a pantone color
Speaker 3: for it, it would be Confederate gray. How on point
Speaker 3: it is. But you said, can you kind of break
Speaker 3: down just sort of the nuance here, like what exactly
Speaker 3: I mean, we've sort of touched upon it and some
Speaker 3: people may know, but just kind of explain the Thermin
Speaker 3: Amendment for people.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So, essentially, the Thermin Amendment means that if you
Speaker 6: have a drug distribution conviction, and so that can be
Speaker 6: for marijuana, it can be for any illegal substance, you
Speaker 6: do not have fair housing protection. So a landlord can
Speaker 6: or a seller for that matter, can look at your
Speaker 6: application or your offer the purchase and if they find out,
Speaker 6: whether through a background check or a Google search, that
Speaker 6: you have a drug distribution conviction, again doesn't matter how
Speaker 6: long ago it was, doesn't matter extenuating circumstances, they can
Speaker 6: immediately summarily deny your application or refuse to sell you
Speaker 6: their property, right right.
Speaker 3: And like I know you said you're trying to see
Speaker 3: any background. This is just like so strange because this
Speaker 3: feels obviously this was the era where you know, the
Speaker 3: federal government was finding all kinds of ways to incarce rate,
Speaker 3: especially people of color during the crack epidemic and these
Speaker 3: other various periods in the eighties, and this feels part
Speaker 3: and parcel to it. But I'm like, is there no,
Speaker 3: there was no like association of like concern landlords or
Speaker 3: something that's like Senator Thurmont, I'm telling you, man, these
Speaker 3: they're just setting up and they're serving the community in
Speaker 3: a different way, not serving but serving the community. And
Speaker 3: I just I can't have that in my in my
Speaker 3: apartment building or whatever. It just came out of his
Speaker 3: just brain.
Speaker 6: Well. So, and this is really the infuriating piece of
Speaker 6: this legislation for me is in the late eighties there
Speaker 6: was literally a political strategy where Republicans would attach anti
Speaker 6: drug legislation to completely you know, non relevant bills in
Speaker 6: the hopes of getting Democrats to vote against it, and
Speaker 6: then they would use on the campaign trail and so right, yeah,
Speaker 6: so this was all just political bullshit, quite frankly, I mean,
Speaker 6: And and that's what's caused me to dedicate the last
Speaker 6: three years of my life to changing this legislation. Because
Speaker 6: the fact that my family was denied access to housing,
Speaker 6: that my daughter was denied access to the school, that
Speaker 6: she wanted to attend because of bullshit racist political games.
Speaker 6: Is just it's it's something that I can't sit by
Speaker 6: and just let that impact other families and kids in
Speaker 6: this country.
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you talk about your kind of first hand
Speaker 1: run in with the Therma Amendment?
Speaker 6: Yeah, so, you know, I'm sure we'll get into my background.
Speaker 6: But I've been a homeowner for many years. But I
Speaker 6: relocated to Allentown to lead an education organization, and so
Speaker 6: at the time, my daughter was a rising ninth grader.
Speaker 6: So we're looking at school districts. I mentioned she's a
Speaker 6: tennis player, so we wanted a school that both had
Speaker 6: good academics and a strong tennis program. We identified a community,
Speaker 6: found a town home, and said, Okay, we'll rent this.
Speaker 6: At no point did I even imagine that my application
Speaker 6: could be denied, right, just because I mean, I haven't
Speaker 6: had any justice involvement in twenty five years. Hell, what
Speaker 6: I did at eighteen tells you nothing about who I
Speaker 6: am as a middle aged bother. Like, it's just it's
Speaker 6: not really relevant.
Speaker 3: They should they shouldn't rent anything to anyone based on
Speaker 3: who they were at eighteen. If that's if that's a standard,
Speaker 3: then nobody have anything.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well especially if you're forty, you know, plus years old.
Speaker 6: So yeah, So I get this call and the woman
Speaker 6: is like, you know, mister Dowe. I said yeah, and
Speaker 6: she said, well, unfortunately your application was denied. And I said,
Speaker 6: excuse me, like I was so upset, I had just
Speaker 6: set my Starbucks down. I'm like, what the wtf? You know, like,
Speaker 6: are you fing kidding me? Right now? I said, this
Speaker 6: is use of doll. I do you got the right
Speaker 6: dove right right? It isn't roll doll? Yes, And she says,
Speaker 6: you know, hey, look, I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 6: It's been denied. Will send you the letter. And they
Speaker 6: basically gave me a number from Boston to call about
Speaker 6: my denial in Allentown, Pennsylvania. And as you can imagine,
Speaker 6: you know, after wasting a half hour on the phone,
Speaker 6: I just gave up. I had to find somewhere else
Speaker 6: to live. And because I had not anticipated being denied
Speaker 6: access to that apartment, now, we had to scramble, right
Speaker 6: because I'm committed to leading this organization, and we ended
Speaker 6: up ended up securing a housing unit in a school
Speaker 6: district that the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has designated his failing.
Speaker 6: And so the thought that this guy who quite frankly,
Speaker 6: you know, we know he was racist, We know he
Speaker 6: was a segregationist, we know he exploited vulnerable people for
Speaker 6: his own personal political gain. The fact that this motherfucker
Speaker 6: to this day was limiting opportunities for children like my own,
Speaker 6: that it's still just talking about it just stiffens my
Speaker 6: result to make sure this legislation is done once and
Speaker 6: for all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the question that occurred to me is like why
Speaker 1: it seems specific that they're focusing on drug convictions, Like
Speaker 1: there's not an equivalent amendment for other like more serious crimes, right,
Speaker 1: Like there's not strong thermon didn't say murder or domestic
Speaker 1: abusers or you know, which is something we know as
Speaker 1: Americans because of you know, the epidemic of gun crime,
Speaker 1: like domestic abuse is a predictor of future violence, whereas
Speaker 1: drug distribution convictions don't have long term predictive value as
Speaker 1: to whether renters would commit a violent crime in the
Speaker 1: future or be bad tenants. That's according to Noel Porter,
Speaker 1: director of government affairs for the National Housing Law Project.
Speaker 6: So woman, by the way, So Noel, if you Noel
Speaker 6: is a rock star, so I just have to give
Speaker 6: her a shout out.
Speaker 1: But it seems like the reason behind this is that
Speaker 1: they are like significantly racially biased, right, the arrests for
Speaker 1: drug distribution, Like in Wisconsin where you are from, black
Speaker 1: people make up six percent of the population and fifty
Speaker 1: three percent of drug convictions.
Speaker 6: Yeah, the disparities are outrageous. And think about this through
Speaker 6: this mental exercise. You know, you're eighteen years old, you
Speaker 6: get caught with an ounce of pot, you know, back
Speaker 6: in you know, when I was nineteen ninety seven. Is
Speaker 6: that distribution or is that possession?
Speaker 3: Right? Yeah, exactly, Yeah, the amounts that were.
Speaker 6: It's really quite frankly, going to depend on how good
Speaker 6: is your lawyer, how well connected are you? Right, Because
Speaker 6: it's truly this gray and fuzzy line. And so if
Speaker 6: you're poor, you're likely to have been charged with a distribution.
Speaker 6: If you have resources, that was likely reduced down to
Speaker 6: a simple possession charge. And that difference, right, that subjectivity
Speaker 6: is the difference between losing your fair housing protections for
Speaker 6: the rest of your natural life. It's just crazy.
Speaker 1: Whereas like with murder, they can't they don't they they
Speaker 1: can't go easy on white murderers.
Speaker 3: A murderer could like in this adicts couldn't have murdered
Speaker 3: be like I'm taking you to court. You can't keep
Speaker 3: me out of this place because I'm a murder you know.
Speaker 6: That's that's exact. Had had my conviction been for murder,
Speaker 6: I could have sued that housing developer for refusing to
Speaker 6: rent to me and my family.
Speaker 3: Yea, that you had there was technically some kind of
Speaker 3: legal recourse or this was like I'm sorry, it's not
Speaker 3: a protected category, so you have no protections here under
Speaker 3: the law, so you may have to go to where
Speaker 3: they are willing to rent to people like you. Which
Speaker 3: again this brings back this whole idea of redlining and
Speaker 3: segregation and like you know, I meant like we're talking
Speaker 3: about strom Thurman, like this guy did. He betted all
Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty four to try and stop like the
Speaker 3: civil rights like he did philipbustered. He really tried, and
Speaker 3: that you know, the precipitated his switch to switching parties
Speaker 3: because of that and because he was so dedicated to
Speaker 3: creating this like overtly segregated America. But with these kinds
Speaker 3: of like with this amendment, it feels like kind of
Speaker 3: heat like that he won. You know what I mean
Speaker 3: by framing this this rule around drug dealers was just
Speaker 3: coded language, just very obviously coded language. He found like
Speaker 3: a somewhat nuanced way to keep the people out of
Speaker 3: the places he feels they shouldn't be to begin with.
Speaker 3: And we talk a lot about on the show about how,
Speaker 3: you know, chattle slavery has always found a way to
Speaker 3: morph into these other oppressive systems, and they all there's
Speaker 3: there's always some form of control that can be exercised
Speaker 3: over oppressed groups, especially people of color in this country.
Speaker 3: And you know, with people getting kept out of affordable
Speaker 3: housing because of a prior charge, they've they've created a
Speaker 3: system that traps people not necessarily physically but in a
Speaker 3: way physically because you're limited to where you can live,
Speaker 3: but by excluding them from the things that allow people
Speaker 3: to improve their situation, like building credit or these other things.
Speaker 3: Can you kind of talk to me about how like
Speaker 3: like how this how you get stuck like sort of
Speaker 3: how this very specific form of redlining or segregation keeps
Speaker 3: people stuck like the the like at that point, it's like,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, but your your chances of upward mobility are
Speaker 3: pretty much gone or very very much diminished.
Speaker 6: Well, community matters, right, context matters. We know that in
Speaker 6: so you know, take an example of you find an apartment,
Speaker 6: you've been living there safe for five years. Well, if
Speaker 6: you've lived anywhere for the last five years, your rent
Speaker 6: has probably went from twelve hundred to two thousand dollars
Speaker 6: over the last five years. I don't care where you live.
Speaker 6: So if your and of course your income hasn't matched
Speaker 6: that increase, and so one way you would try to
Speaker 6: manage that is you'd move to a less expensive rental unit. Well,
Speaker 6: if where you can live is limited, oftentimes you're stuck.
Speaker 6: You don't have the option to try to find a
Speaker 6: different rental unit that would maybe cost less. And so
Speaker 6: that means because you're paying this exorbit rent to your
Speaker 6: point you can't maybe stay on top of some of
Speaker 6: your other bills, you can increase your credit score and
Speaker 6: ultimately put yourself in a position to purchase a property.
Speaker 6: Or in a case like mine, I had to send
Speaker 6: my daughter to a private school, so our family had
Speaker 6: to make sacrifices. I had to refrain from contributing to
Speaker 6: my retirement account and put a god awful expensive private
Speaker 6: school bill, but I had no choice, right, and so
Speaker 6: on so many levels. If you don't have the ability
Speaker 6: to choose where you live based on market values and
Speaker 6: measures of risk, but instead just someone's perceived risk of
Speaker 6: who you are because of a past conviction, you're just
Speaker 6: not going to be able to access to communities that
Speaker 6: are going to best help you. Ribe in a broader context.
Speaker 1: You know, Miles mentioned the ways that chattel slavery kind
Speaker 1: of morphs into different institutions in the modern world, and
Speaker 1: you know, we've specifically talked a lot about it morphing
Speaker 1: into you know, the carceral human caging system. I just
Speaker 1: want to because you know you're being targeted. You know,
Speaker 1: in the recent past, you spent time in prison and
Speaker 1: got out and like really rebuilt your life in a
Speaker 1: way that feels like, you know, the odds were stacked
Speaker 1: against you so much, and that like just I think
Speaker 1: having a better idea of like what you were able
Speaker 1: to do helped helps just like kind of really drive
Speaker 1: home how this specific amendment is a total fuck you
Speaker 1: to people and just like complete, wildly unjust. But can
Speaker 1: you talk about just like how you built yourself coming
Speaker 1: out of prison.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, I've been incredibly fortunate even when I
Speaker 6: was behind bars. Actually, my journey to a better life
Speaker 6: started behind bars. I had this chance encounter with a
Speaker 6: guy who was in the Wisconsin prison system for defrauding
Speaker 6: the Kohlder Corporation. And so you should never defraud anyone,
Speaker 6: but you sure the hell don't want to defraud a
Speaker 6: company that has a town named after it. So you know,
Speaker 6: this guy brilliant, you know, master's degree in engineering from
Speaker 6: the Northeast. So he's into a Wisconsin prison system with me,
Speaker 6: and he taught me how to program computers. And so
Speaker 6: when I came home, was very fortunate, you know, was
Speaker 6: able to work my way into some development roles and
Speaker 6: Fortune five hundred companies. You know, I've worked on three continents.
Speaker 6: I've built software in India, in Africa. I had a
Speaker 6: fellowship from Google. I served as president of Wisconsin's largest
Speaker 6: trade association. I had a full scholarship to Princeton University
Speaker 6: for graduate school. You don't just really have been incredibly
Speaker 6: fortunate and have done so many things that tells you
Speaker 6: who I am today. All of those things I just
Speaker 6: noted tell you more about me today than my conviction
Speaker 6: from when I was eighteen years old.
Speaker 3: Yeah sure, yeah, sure, right, And because your story is
Speaker 3: far from the norm, it's you know, like quite an
Speaker 3: exceptional case, like that is not the norm for people
Speaker 3: re entering after being incarcerated, Like and if it's that
Speaker 3: difficult for you, that's exactly right, someone who can point
Speaker 3: to all these bona fides like I've been educated in
Speaker 3: the IVY League, I've been working like very consistent jobs,
Speaker 3: I've been successful, that the chances for anyone else who
Speaker 3: go back to reduced opportunity, lack of opportunity and don't
Speaker 3: have that kind of upper mobility, then it truly just
Speaker 3: does become this thing like, well, now you're back in
Speaker 3: the neighborhood where you were doing dirt and your only
Speaker 3: options are to do dirt. And I think there's also
Speaker 3: like even when we look at when we have these conversations,
Speaker 3: we still don't we're still not able to look at
Speaker 3: things like drug dealing as as a form of like
Speaker 3: lack of financial recourse for people like no one is
Speaker 3: dealing drugs because they're like, you know what, I always
Speaker 3: wanted to deal drugs, you know what I mean, like
Speaker 3: just something I wanted to do.
Speaker 1: I had the offer from Google. And also.
Speaker 3: I was like, no, man, the block needs me. I
Speaker 3: wanted to be one of them boys, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, that one of these Google people. But you know,
Speaker 3: like that, we don't actually we never look at sort
Speaker 3: of things like survival crime too in a certain context
Speaker 3: and be able to extend empathy in those situations. Obviously
Speaker 3: violent crime can be a completely different thing. But when
Speaker 3: you look at things like this, like most people, especially
Speaker 3: people who have dabbled in it, they have very similar
Speaker 3: stories of my back was to a wall. If I
Speaker 3: just move this thing from point A to point B,
Speaker 3: or I let somebody stat something at my house and
Speaker 3: then I somehow a bust happened and it completely ruined
Speaker 3: my life. That these people aren't coming at it from
Speaker 3: being wanting having some kind of like sociopathic desire to
Speaker 3: to break the law.
Speaker 6: That's a great point. That's that's that's a great point.
Speaker 6: And all of that nuance is missed, right, That's that's
Speaker 6: that's the most frustrating piece of this. And you know
Speaker 6: what keeps me motivated every day is because this has
Speaker 6: been a slog. I mean, changing federal legislation is a slog, right,
Speaker 6: And what keeps me motivated is that there are literally
Speaker 6: tens of thousands of people right now in this country
Speaker 6: who were in my situation but didn't have an alternative
Speaker 6: option for their family, right. You know that that's just wrong,
Speaker 6: and that's honestly what keeps me motivated every day to
Speaker 6: get this over the finish line.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well we should take one more break
Speaker 1: and we'll come back, and we're back, and so, you know,
Speaker 1: this is one way that I feel like redlining is
Speaker 1: still kind of that it's like a neo redlining that's
Speaker 1: still happening today. We've talked, like there's been reporting in
Speaker 1: the past decades about you know, real estate agents sort
Speaker 1: of being an informal barrier to you know, black families
Speaker 1: moving into certain parts of towns, engaging informally and discriminatory practices.
Speaker 1: But what have you seen how what are the other
Speaker 1: ways that you see kind of of redlining still upheld
Speaker 1: even though it's technically illegal.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's a that's a great question. And I have
Speaker 6: a buddy who's very supportive of this work that I'm doing.
Speaker 6: But he he leads the National Association of Real Estate
Speaker 6: Brokers and it's basically like the trade association for Black realtors,
Speaker 6: and he leads the Milwaukee chapter, and you know, I
Speaker 6: was talking to him about this work guy I'm doing,
Speaker 6: and he said, you know, I remember when I got
Speaker 6: out of prison. How you know I would have to
Speaker 6: pay extra fees if I wanted to rent an apartment
Speaker 6: solely because of a past conviction. And that was one
Speaker 6: way to kind of it was a barrier for him
Speaker 6: because he'd have to put up like two times the
Speaker 6: security deposit, and he didn't have that type of money,
Speaker 6: so that particular apartment wouldn't be available to him. Or
Speaker 6: you know, he submitted an offer when he became a
Speaker 6: real estate investor. You know, he submitted an offer to
Speaker 6: a you know, well to do area, and with everyone's
Speaker 6: information public and online, you know, he noticed several times
Speaker 6: he just did not get a response from the seller
Speaker 6: about his offer, and two weeks later there's an accepted
Speaker 6: offer on the property. So I mean, it's it's an
Speaker 6: unnecessary tool that lends itself to abuse, either by people
Speaker 6: who really have ill intentions or just people who are
Speaker 6: who are clueless and honestly are unwittingly perpetuating you know,
Speaker 6: these very systemic disadvantage that disadvantages that we've been talking about.
Speaker 3: What's kind of been the biggest hurdle in terms of
Speaker 3: because I know, like you know, I've worked in politics,
Speaker 3: and on the state level, there's things like ballot initiatives
Speaker 3: you can do to try and change laws and regulations
Speaker 3: and things like that, but like doing it on a
Speaker 3: federal level, what's been I mean, aside from trying to
Speaker 3: do away with something that has been like the cause
Speaker 3: of so much pain for people but is seen as
Speaker 3: a norm, what's kind of been like the hardest sort
Speaker 3: of well, the hardest part about the process in terms
Speaker 3: of trying to get people to understand like this isn't
Speaker 3: necessary and there's something actually need to move past because
Speaker 3: it's causing soone's damage.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, I think it's just getting visibility on this issue.
Speaker 6: And that's why I'm so appreciative of you guys for
Speaker 6: highlighting this issue on your platform, because here's the reality.
Speaker 6: You'll never convince me that if the general public was
Speaker 6: aware that current housing policy in this country, at least
Speaker 6: part of it is being directed by someone like strom
Speaker 6: Thurman and these are the outcomes of this housing policy,
Speaker 6: that folks would just.
Speaker 3: Be like, yeah, that makes sense, let's.
Speaker 6: Keep that in place, right, we're good here, exactly no
Speaker 6: reason to reform that. And so it's really this has
Speaker 6: been going on for almost forty years because of who
Speaker 6: it is impacts, right, it impacts the most vulnerable people,
Speaker 6: and you said it yourself. My experience is an outlier.
Speaker 6: And so they just happen to, quite frankly, do it
Speaker 6: to the wrong person who's prepared to go all in
Speaker 6: on this shit and do whatever it takes to change
Speaker 6: this legislation. But if for the average person who can
Speaker 6: invest this type of time and resources to do this stuff,
Speaker 6: and so's it just becomes the status quo. And so
Speaker 6: the biggest challenge has been raising the visibility of this
Speaker 6: issue so that folks understand why they can care. Because
Speaker 6: I guarantee you the folks who are listening to this
Speaker 6: right now, they're not going to be for it. And
Speaker 6: so I encourage them to reach out to me and
Speaker 6: figure out how can they support this effort to get
Speaker 6: their legislators to do something and repeal this useless amendment.
Speaker 3: No, yeah, I think I think a lot of listeners
Speaker 3: are probably definitely sympathetic towards that, no doubt and use
Speaker 3: of what would you say, you know, just to for
Speaker 3: something for people to keep in mind when they hear
Speaker 3: about because I think, like you know, when people hear
Speaker 3: about someone who is in prison is going to move
Speaker 3: in you know, right, we have this sort of like
Speaker 3: sort of inbuilt response that because I like you. Sadly,
Speaker 3: even though we pretend our carcial system is about like
Speaker 3: rehabilitation or anything, it really isn't. It's just it's like
Speaker 3: a revolving door. What do you think? What what are
Speaker 3: sort of the obstacles that you challenge people to sort
Speaker 3: of challenge their own thinking when think like when being
Speaker 3: confronted in a situation like this, or someone says, oh,
Speaker 3: I couldn't rent to this person they were a drug dealer,
Speaker 3: and then they say, oh, well, good good, that's that's good.
Speaker 3: You good good, you stopped that from happening. What sort
Speaker 3: of the shift that you feel people need to make
Speaker 3: and able to sort of look at the world with
Speaker 3: a bit of a more equitable lens in this in
Speaker 3: this context.
Speaker 6: Well, someone who would say something like that, I don't
Speaker 6: know what the hell I would say to that person,
Speaker 6: but but I would say that, look, this criminal legal
Speaker 6: system has grown exponentially, and so it's hard to find
Speaker 6: somebody who doesn't have some type of tangential connection to
Speaker 6: the system. And I think that's you know, as people
Speaker 6: have that connection, I think they develop the empathy. You'll
Speaker 6: never convince me you have to enforce the Thermin Amendment
Speaker 6: to make money. That's bullshit. And I'll call it as
Speaker 6: it is because I know that's not true. And so
Speaker 6: I mean, folks have to just because you can do it.
Speaker 6: I mean, this is the problem. This is exactly what happens.
Speaker 6: You're a landlord. You go to your attorney and say, hey, look,
Speaker 6: I need to develop my screen screening criteria and I
Speaker 6: don't want to run a foul of the Fair Housing Act,
Speaker 6: right that. This is what happens. Your attorney is going
Speaker 6: to do their job and they're going to say, Okay,
Speaker 6: you can legally do these things. You can deny all
Speaker 6: applications with a drug distribution conviction. Okay, boom, let's do that,
Speaker 6: and for all these other criminal classifications, this is what
Speaker 6: you need to do. Okay, fine, Right, So as long
Speaker 6: as this is legal, this is going to be a problem.
Speaker 6: And that is why we have to repeal the Thermin
Speaker 6: Amendment in one hundred and eighteenth Congress.
Speaker 4: M Yeah, Actually, that's the best place to leave it.
Speaker 4: Let's just leave it done, all right.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much, YUSUF doll for joining us
Speaker 1: and talking about your work. Where can people find you?
Speaker 1: Follow you all that good stuff and learn more about
Speaker 1: how to help you in your fight to overturn the
Speaker 1: Thermon Amendment.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so I'm on Twitter, Instagram, USUF dial, and I
Speaker 6: have a website thermin amendment dot org. Again, thermin amendment
Speaker 6: dot org. You can connect with me on that platform
Speaker 6: as well.
Speaker 1: And that's th h U R M O N D
Speaker 1: amendment not like Uma Thurman or Thurmon months and use
Speaker 1: of doll is y U s U F D A
Speaker 1: h L.
Speaker 6: Yes, Okay, you're looking. Is there a work of media
Speaker 6: that you've been enjoying work of media that I've been
Speaker 6: in be a tweet? It can be well okay, okay,
Speaker 6: I have to put it out there. So we just
Speaker 6: started binge while watching a ninety Day Fiance. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: the ninety days before though. I think it's a different
Speaker 6: program than my daughter. I only watch this stuff because
Speaker 6: of my daughter. She's a total like trash reality TV first.
Speaker 3: And so I get there.
Speaker 6: Anyways, that stuff is pretty hilarious. So I'm into that
Speaker 6: right now.
Speaker 4: Amazing, perfect answer.
Speaker 1: Miles, where can people find you and what is the
Speaker 1: work media you've been?
Speaker 3: You can find me at Miles of Gray wherever they
Speaker 3: got the at symbol. You can also find Jack and
Speaker 3: I on our basketball podcast with the NBA called Miles
Speaker 3: and Jack on Mad Boosti's and also you can find
Speaker 3: me on my ninety Day Fiance podcast for twenty Day
Speaker 3: Fiance with Sophia Alexandra because you know what some of
Speaker 3: us like to play in the trash too. You know,
Speaker 3: some of us were of the trash and I love
Speaker 3: it with all my being. And yeah, that's where you
Speaker 3: can find me in the pod space thing of work
Speaker 3: in media, like this Korean reality show Physical one hundred
Speaker 3: is back with a new season on Netflix, and again
Speaker 3: as someone who is always wowed by people who have
Speaker 3: that kind of discipline with their fitness, I'm there's just
Speaker 3: no short shortage of like just moments when I watch
Speaker 3: it show, I'm like, I could, I would know, I'm
Speaker 3: just not gonna do that, but I like to watch
Speaker 3: other people suffer and use their big muscular bodies and
Speaker 3: doing stuff. So anyway, yeah, that's what I'm watching Physical
Speaker 3: one hundred amazing.
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien
Speaker 1: tweet I've been enjoying Noah garfin Gold tweeted, you have
Speaker 1: to eat so many vegetables or you will die. That's okay.
Speaker 1: Everyone likes potatoes. Oh yeah, there is one that doesn't
Speaker 1: count and it is potatoes. And then Troy Johnson underscore.
Speaker 1: Troy Johnson on Twitter tweeted, the black jelly bean is
Speaker 1: the best bean made of corn syrup, yak ormeister, eyeshadow,
Speaker 1: and cure songs. Flavor stays in your mouth until Jesus
Speaker 1: comes back. Supreme. You can find us on Twitter at
Speaker 1: daily Zeitgeist. Where at the Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram, we
Speaker 1: have a Facebook fan page and a website daily zeikeis
Speaker 1: dot com, where we post our episodes and our footnotes
Speaker 1: where we link off to the information that we talked
Speaker 1: about in today's episode, as well as a song that
Speaker 1: we think you might enjoy. Miles, what song do you
Speaker 1: think people might enjoy? Yes?
Speaker 3: A song, Yes, a song. This track just I just
Speaker 3: want to play a little bit of you know, like
Speaker 3: some psych indie rock. This is crumb ce U r
Speaker 3: NB and their new track A Mama, A m A
Speaker 3: m A.
Speaker 6: You guessed it.
Speaker 3: Right, and I just like the you know it just
Speaker 3: it just got again. When I listened to like indie rock,
Speaker 3: the rhythm sections gotta be on point. I gotta like
Speaker 3: what the drummer's doing, I gotta like what the basis
Speaker 3: is doing, and I like what they're doing on this track.
Speaker 3: So this is a A Mama by Crumb.
Speaker 1: All right, we will link off to that in the footnotes.
Speaker 1: The Daily Zi is the production of iHeartRadio. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the heart Radio Wrap
Speaker 1: Apple podcast. Wherever you listen to your favorite shows, that
Speaker 1: is gonna do it for us this morning, back this
Speaker 1: afternoon to tell you what is trend thing and we'll
Speaker 1: talk to you all then Bye bye bye yeah