Speaker 1: Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Speaker 1: Red Tabletop Podcast, all your favorite episodes from the Facebook
Speaker 1: Watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review on
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. I left myself vulnerable to be taken advantage of.
Speaker 1: I felt growth and I'm just laying there like I
Speaker 1: don't want to do this. Something happened to me a
Speaker 1: couple of months ago. It's so hard to talk about it.
Speaker 1: I didn't say yes, but I also didn't say no.
Speaker 1: I just let it happen. I just feel like I'm
Speaker 1: still very confused about this gray area of consent. For me,
Speaker 1: it's like, no, it's no. I don't understand how you
Speaker 1: confused about it. Have you've had a sexual experience that
Speaker 1: was not consensual? I have, but it was also with
Speaker 1: your dad. Actually this may shock you, but we took
Speaker 1: a poll and every woman we asked admitted they have
Speaker 1: had unwanted sex. Sexual consent is a hot button issue.
Speaker 1: Opinions and feelings can get really, really really hot about
Speaker 1: this one. And remember that all women don't have the
Speaker 1: same opinion, nor do we have to opinions there, And
Speaker 1: there's a difference between being raped right, yes, versus being
Speaker 1: in situations that create these kind of gray areas of
Speaker 1: non consensual Definitely, I will definitely say as a woman,
Speaker 1: I definitely got into some situations where I didn't vocalize
Speaker 1: in a way that I should have and me not
Speaker 1: necessarily understanding the dynamics. You go further than you want
Speaker 1: to and then you feel like it's too late to stop.
Speaker 1: For me, It's like, no, it's no, it's it's really
Speaker 1: in my mind before we started even talking about I
Speaker 1: was like, well, what is there to even talk about?
Speaker 1: Because no means not. So gam you feel like nowhere
Speaker 1: in your history in regards to sexual intimacy, have you
Speaker 1: felt like you've had a sexual experience that was not
Speaker 1: necessarily consensual or was you know, kind of in that
Speaker 1: gray area. I have. I have, but it was also
Speaker 1: with my husband, Ok. Dad, Actually, so that's really gray.
Speaker 1: That is gray, that's really you do hear that a lot.
Speaker 1: So you're basically saying you had non consensual sex with
Speaker 1: my father, so that he forced himself upon you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I mean it wasn't you know? Yeah, Well why
Speaker 1: you say it like that? Yeah? I don't really want
Speaker 1: to go into more details. Camera back back, all right,
Speaker 1: I got it. Yeah, women are not really allowed to
Speaker 1: be vocal around sex in regards to what pleases them
Speaker 1: and what just pleases me. Right, So any conversation around
Speaker 1: sex for a woman is like it's a hot area.
Speaker 1: So even if you try to talk to your mother
Speaker 1: about it, she usually doesn't even want to talk to
Speaker 1: you about it in detail, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And usually it's like, don't put yourself in that that situation,
Speaker 1: or you shouldn't be having sex anyway, or you know,
Speaker 1: you get all of that. So now you don't really
Speaker 1: have the information. You don't know the game because one
Speaker 1: of the things that I realized too is like a
Speaker 1: boy's game is to get you to yes. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: he's gonna be persistent, he's gonna be like manipulated. He's
Speaker 1: a hunter. You gotta know what the game is. Don't
Speaker 1: get in the game or want you in the game.
Speaker 1: You really got to know, like you gotta know your boundaries,
Speaker 1: and you gotta know how Me and will get into
Speaker 1: conversations about that all the time because he's like if
Speaker 1: she goes to the hotel room, she knows what's up. No,
Speaker 1: she doesn't, but promise you not all the time. No,
Speaker 1: I don't agree with differently than that, I really do. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's meal you feel like if she goes to the
Speaker 1: hotel room. Let's say, maybe she's like, oh, I want
Speaker 1: to spend more time. Maybe she's not thinking like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's gonna go there straight away, but it has to
Speaker 1: be in her mind. But you're not thinking in the
Speaker 1: same way he is. Especially men who are not sexually disciplined,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, tend to have a very predatorial It's
Speaker 1: just primal. It's like young guys don't know that they're
Speaker 1: trying to figure it out. All they know is that
Speaker 1: they have this strong drive and they want you. Now.
Speaker 1: Does that make sense? It makes sense, But I still
Speaker 1: don't get past the responsibility of the young lady to
Speaker 1: that young ladies aren't supposed to be responsible. What I'm
Speaker 1: saying is that young ladies are not prepared. They're not
Speaker 1: so where are you supposed to learn it? You and
Speaker 1: I never had a conversation about that. Didn't But I
Speaker 1: wasn't prepared. But that's what I'm trying to say. So
Speaker 1: we're expecting these young girls to just know and that's ridiculous,
Speaker 1: and we're expecting these young boys to just know some
Speaker 1: kind of way from somehow. I knew. I didn't get
Speaker 1: prepared for my mother, but I knew, and I was
Speaker 1: never in a position or a circumstance that I couldn't
Speaker 1: take care of myself or that I felt like I
Speaker 1: couldn't say no or put Sometimes it's stubtle, though, like
Speaker 1: sometime talking about the more subtle stuff I'm talking about
Speaker 1: when you're with somebody that you know, because there have
Speaker 1: been times where I'm like, oh, was that disrespectful? Sometimes
Speaker 1: you you can't read the situation, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: or you don't know you misread it. A lot of
Speaker 1: times I would misread it, and I'd be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm in something right now. I'm in something right now, right,
Speaker 1: And so that's why I'm with Willow. I don't know
Speaker 1: you prepared, Okay, I just want to jump in on that,
Speaker 1: because you definitely prepared me for the danger of men.
Speaker 1: When I was younger, it was like men are dangerous.
Speaker 1: First of all, you didn't tell me that, but the
Speaker 1: way that you would talk to me, in my little brain, yes,
Speaker 1: my brain said, men equal danger. So you're becoming a
Speaker 1: young late because she wanted to hang out with guys
Speaker 1: we were older than her herself. And I'm like, some
Speaker 1: of those conversations, there's no you hanging out with nobody alone.
Speaker 1: I was always very aware of the danger of men,
Speaker 1: and I don't even want to say the danger of men.
Speaker 1: Will say the danger of the undisciplined male sexual mind.
Speaker 1: That's different. Yeah, I don't want to put a blanket
Speaker 1: on men like that because that's nothing, but it can
Speaker 1: be dangerous. And that's what you made very clear. Yes,
Speaker 1: I did, Yes, I t I don't know. I just
Speaker 1: feel like I'm still very confused about this gray area
Speaker 1: of consent. I think I can't understand how you're confused
Speaker 1: about it when we just had agreement on the fact
Speaker 1: that young women are not educated. I don't think men
Speaker 1: or women are educated enough because men are thinking, you know,
Speaker 1: the game, like Will, He's like, you know what's up,
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, no, you're playing my game. We're just
Speaker 1: gonna go up here, we're gonna talk again, a good time,
Speaker 1: we're gonna connect more. But right, but he's thinking in
Speaker 1: his mind, well, if you're spending time with me alone,
Speaker 1: then that means a yes is available, So I'm going
Speaker 1: to keep going for the yes, and I'm thinking, oh, no,
Speaker 1: I like you. You make me laugh. I'm not thinking
Speaker 1: that sex is an absolute in his mind because I'm
Speaker 1: not there, but it certainly is a possibility. And just
Speaker 1: the fact that it's a possibility put you in a
Speaker 1: position where you have to know where you're going, what
Speaker 1: you're doing, who you're going with, and what your boundaries are.
Speaker 1: Women need to understand a male mind around sexuality, and
Speaker 1: men need an understanding of a female's mind around sexuality.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of misunderstanding, Like a lot of men
Speaker 1: feel like, if I buy you this drink, that's a signal.
Speaker 1: If you decide to let me take you home, that's
Speaker 1: a signal. If you decide to let me come into
Speaker 1: your house and spend more time with you, that's a signal.
Speaker 1: For him, that could be a communication going towards something
Speaker 1: that's not necessarily what she's going for. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: It makes sense, But she needs to be a little
Speaker 1: bit more clear. I understand that. First of all, I
Speaker 1: didn't grow up with a father or brother, right, so
Speaker 1: I had a lot to learn, a lot to learn
Speaker 1: in regards to the male mind. In regards to intimacy
Speaker 1: and sex. Willow grew up with brothers, so she got
Speaker 1: to kind of see it firsthand. It was always very
Speaker 1: parent to me, maybe not in the most healthy way,
Speaker 1: that sex is always on a man's mind. So you
Speaker 1: have to protect yourself and you have to be very
Speaker 1: clear and very aware and not put yourself in a
Speaker 1: situation where you can be victimized. So that was extremely
Speaker 1: clear to me from a young age. But she had
Speaker 1: an education exactly, and I didn't have that education. So
Speaker 1: I was constantly putting myself in situations that I didn't
Speaker 1: need to be in. If I knew then what I
Speaker 1: know now, I wouldn't have even been drunk at college parties.
Speaker 1: I left myself vulnerable to be taken advantage of those
Speaker 1: things happen most you put yourself in more of a
Speaker 1: vulnerable situation for those you're susceptible to those things when
Speaker 1: you're inebriated. So this is what makes it complicated, you know,
Speaker 1: being in a in a situation with somebody of like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I went too far, but I'm afraid
Speaker 1: to say no, and then I go through with it,
Speaker 1: and I hate that I did it. Why? Why what
Speaker 1: I don't understand why. I'm just not what you want.
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying, there's understand these complex areas of
Speaker 1: sex and trying to get understanding even and when we
Speaker 1: educate young girls of the dudes and adults, you know,
Speaker 1: really kind that if you don't understand, he damn sure done. Okay,
Speaker 1: there you go. So this is a subject that is
Speaker 1: very important to our dear friend, Rumor willis what did
Speaker 1: you see in your mother that you felt was a
Speaker 1: reflection a lot of the just like unworthiness, Like there's
Speaker 1: something innately about me that I have to earn love
Speaker 1: from people and like constantly proved myself that and a
Speaker 1: lot of the stuff with men. She was carrying my
Speaker 1: the weight of my issue. The last time she was here,
Speaker 1: she was like, you guys need to have a show
Speaker 1: about consent. And so here we are. Are you hearing
Speaker 1: our struggle with hear you? My god? It's so interesting
Speaker 1: because there's so much of this that is so high octane.
Speaker 1: Absolutely to me. The issue is when you're young, you're
Speaker 1: taught all right, well, if you have sex, then you're
Speaker 1: going to get pregnant or STDs, and you guys are
Speaker 1: boosted up there like yeah, if you can go and
Speaker 1: get this girl, that's great. And there's such shame around
Speaker 1: sexuality and all, and it's all about men having the power,
Speaker 1: and oh, if someone likes you, if a guy likes you,
Speaker 1: that's great, So don't do anything that would potentially mess
Speaker 1: that up. I would get myself into a situation. And
Speaker 1: at some point I had learned that if someone wants
Speaker 1: values me sexually, or I feel like they desire me,
Speaker 1: then they are entitled to me. When I was like fourteen,
Speaker 1: because I was so shamed, like when all those blogs
Speaker 1: came out about how I looked, how my face looked.
Speaker 1: Then my idea was that, oh, well then if I'm
Speaker 1: desired sexually, then I'm some I have value. I think
Speaker 1: we now I have to be honest with you. That
Speaker 1: really makes sense. I went through that stage too, because
Speaker 1: I was always so petite. I wasn't always the girl.
Speaker 1: So when you had like that gaze, you know, it
Speaker 1: was like it was a drug, you know. I did
Speaker 1: get caught up in that a little bit. When I
Speaker 1: came back to l A when I was like fifteen
Speaker 1: or sixteen, everyone out here was already having sex. They
Speaker 1: didn't put pressure on me, but I did because I
Speaker 1: felt so inexperienced and like I just needed to catch up.
Speaker 1: When I lost my virginity when I was eighteen, I
Speaker 1: was more concerned with the shame that I was feeling
Speaker 1: at not having done it. I was not abused or
Speaker 1: it wasn't raped, but I didn't say yes. I wasn't
Speaker 1: gung ho about it. But I also didn't say no.
Speaker 1: I just let it happen. He was older and took advantage,
Speaker 1: but I didn't check in. That's where I feel like
Speaker 1: the men's onsibility is no means no. But what if
Speaker 1: you can't say no. What if you're in a position
Speaker 1: and you're going I can't express no because I've never
Speaker 1: done that. A lot of men feel like, well, if
Speaker 1: we're here and we're doing this year down exactly, well,
Speaker 1: it's so hard to talk about it. Even since I
Speaker 1: brought this forward to you, I had such a shift
Speaker 1: in perspective of trying to get out of like a
Speaker 1: victim mentality and not just placing blame on men and
Speaker 1: saying they are responsible and they should be doing this
Speaker 1: because in every situation that I've been uncomfortable and it
Speaker 1: is my responsibility to speak up. And I think that's
Speaker 1: confusion of where the Clinton comes from. I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: I like something happened to me a couple of months ago,
Speaker 1: and I hung out with this person for a little while.
Speaker 1: We were kissing outside, and I said, do you want
Speaker 1: to come in for a minute. And when I asked
Speaker 1: you to come in my house, that doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: I'm saying that you can get me naked. That doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that I'm saying you can do this. I'm saying
Speaker 1: you can come into my house. And as soon as
Speaker 1: I got into my house, it was like hands every
Speaker 1: week and all my clothes off, and then I just froze. Really,
Speaker 1: I completely frozen, and I had I even have so
Speaker 1: much shame about bringing that up because I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm such this empowered, strong person. But even I couldn't
Speaker 1: do it, could not say no, I could not say
Speaker 1: I'm uncomfortable. I couldn't say this is too fast, I'm
Speaker 1: not ready for this. This is where I think it's
Speaker 1: on the male side responsibility. There was no awareness from
Speaker 1: him of my discomfort, even if I couldn't say anything.
Speaker 1: I was obviously uncomfortable and trying to shut it down.
Speaker 1: Even though I couldn't say anything, and it was just
Speaker 1: it's like if you come in the house or that
Speaker 1: you get a free pass to all of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we have another guest with us. You may know
Speaker 1: Amber Roses the former stripper turned model, actress and activists
Speaker 1: or the ex wife of With Khalifa and mother of
Speaker 1: two young sons, Sebastian and Slash. But today Amber is
Speaker 1: an outspoken advocate against sexual injustice and continues to speak
Speaker 1: out on consent, an issue very personal to her. You're welcome,
Speaker 1: Thank you, so, Amber, what is your personal story when
Speaker 1: it comes to consent. I was in a relationship for
Speaker 1: two years. I have consensual sex plenty of times during
Speaker 1: that relationship. Um, I didn't want to be with him anymore.
Speaker 1: I told him that I was leaving, and he didn't
Speaker 1: want to hear that. He ripped my clothes off. I
Speaker 1: felt ickyfl growth, I felt I felt I was taking
Speaker 1: advantage of and it was terrible. And then he went
Speaker 1: downstairs and ate breakfast like he didn't do anything. So
Speaker 1: the gray area in that situation is I had sex
Speaker 1: with him so many times in these two years. I
Speaker 1: didn't fully understand what had happened, but I know what
Speaker 1: I felt like after and then I also remember being
Speaker 1: you know, younger, you know, I would maybe take a
Speaker 1: guy too far and they'll be like, oh, let me
Speaker 1: just put the head in a little bit. I was like, no,
Speaker 1: I kind of don't want to, not just a little bit.
Speaker 1: And then it's full of sex and I'm just laying
Speaker 1: there like I don't want to do this. Right. We've
Speaker 1: had Have you ever had the experience? I'm curious work
Speaker 1: it's easier to just let it finish than say stop. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think every woman has been through that and that situation.
Speaker 1: Do you think that he caught a vibe that you
Speaker 1: didn't want to do anything? Maybe, but maybe I was.
Speaker 1: I mean in my mind because i don't want it
Speaker 1: to happen. I'm thinking, how can you not see? But
Speaker 1: if somebody, if you want to have sex with someone right,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be touching a revenue, kiss them, You're gonna
Speaker 1: be on top of them, rolling around with them. If
Speaker 1: that wasn't what you were doing. The man knows that
Speaker 1: you're not withted. He's just taking advantage of the fact
Speaker 1: that you do feel bad to say no. And I've
Speaker 1: been in those situations where I'm like I took them
Speaker 1: too far. I got the condom on fine, you know,
Speaker 1: and I really and he knew. I didn't want to
Speaker 1: write any situation I've been And even when I felt
Speaker 1: that there was maybe a man who too far took advantage,
Speaker 1: I still blame myself. I still went home and said
Speaker 1: I can't believe, like, why didn't I say anything like
Speaker 1: punished myself? Didn't go and then call that person out
Speaker 1: and say, hey, you know what, that wasn't okay? And
Speaker 1: I felt really uncomfortable the idea of that, like because
Speaker 1: thinking about it, you know what I mean? Gray zone
Speaker 1: sex is happening at a staggering rate. The latest research
Speaker 1: shows that one in three women will have had unwanted
Speaker 1: sex before she graduates college. My name is Hannah, my
Speaker 1: name is Alexis, my name is Sam. This is my story.
Speaker 1: When I was nineteen years old, I had met a
Speaker 1: guy and I really started to like him. He asked
Speaker 1: me to come over to his place to watch a movie.
Speaker 1: When I was nineteen years old, I lost my virginity
Speaker 1: in that great area of consent. We were texting and
Speaker 1: he wanted to come over, so he came over. We
Speaker 1: started kissing. We were friends and we've been flirting for months.
Speaker 1: There was this like trust. I went over there kind
Speaker 1: of expected to hook up a little bit to get
Speaker 1: to know him, not really with the intention of having sex.
Speaker 1: I kept saying as a reminder, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: have sex with you, and I said I do not
Speaker 1: want to do that. And then our clothes were off,
Speaker 1: and then he was touching me in places, and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden he was putting on a condom.
Speaker 1: There's only so many times you can say, hey, this
Speaker 1: isn't gonna happen. It's all kind of a blurb. But
Speaker 1: like I remember like like something and then looking up
Speaker 1: at him and asking him, like, is that a penis?
Speaker 1: And then he said yeah, And I just went for
Speaker 1: being a shachamo like my mom was racing. He had
Speaker 1: already started like making moves, and I feel like I
Speaker 1: didn't want to make him feel bad by making him stop,
Speaker 1: so I ended up going along with it and did
Speaker 1: not enjoy it. While it was happening at all, I
Speaker 1: knew I didn't want it. I kind of felt like,
Speaker 1: once it's inside, I did nothing I can really do.
Speaker 1: I remember freezing and not understanding why I was freezing.
Speaker 1: If I don't keep going, is he going to get mad?
Speaker 1: And I felt like it was my fault and I
Speaker 1: felt like I was being dramatic, overreacting or like being
Speaker 1: you know, like a typical like woman. How we're perceived.
Speaker 1: I realized he was having sex with me. We weren't
Speaker 1: having sex together because I had made it so clear
Speaker 1: so many times that I didn't want to have sex.
Speaker 1: I felt almost like betrayed. This could have been a relationship,
Speaker 1: This could have been a partnership, and that was never
Speaker 1: allowed to flourish because I felt violated. There was this
Speaker 1: very lingering feeling of violation and like I was worthless.
Speaker 1: I don't want him to feel like a rapist. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just felt like it wasn't like I'm sorry, m
Speaker 1: that's deep because she had kept saying no. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: now if you're not aggressive, if you're not going to
Speaker 1: be the girl that's gonna be like push you off,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And now you feel like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: I mean physical danger, like I should just comply just
Speaker 1: so that nothing pops off. She said no, and it's
Speaker 1: still the no wasn't good enough him. Sometimes it's like
Speaker 1: this is turning me on because she's kind of saying no,
Speaker 1: but I know she means yes, because she's at my
Speaker 1: host you know, she wanted to have drinks with me.
Speaker 1: It's like, girl, what did you expect? And how are
Speaker 1: you teaching your boys? He just turned seven, but he's
Speaker 1: way beyond his year, you know, and he knows everything.
Speaker 1: I'm not hiding nothing from my son. My son knows
Speaker 1: what a period is. He'll come in the bathroom and
Speaker 1: just be like this with me, and I'm like, he's like, Mommy,
Speaker 1: do you have your period? And I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: not not right now, but I will. And he's like,
Speaker 1: you need a tampon? Do you need a pad? You know?
Speaker 1: But I say that to say my son is seven,
Speaker 1: and I don't feel like it's too soon. Huge. I
Speaker 1: don't because once he has thirteen and the girls in
Speaker 1: his classroom are getting their period and the boys are like,
Speaker 1: that's disgusting. She's bleeding. He's like, that's nothing. Period once
Speaker 1: a month. Yeah, exactly. I knew that since I was
Speaker 1: six years old. Dude, like, get with the program, right right, so,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if you've been through that with
Speaker 1: your boys, but he's very curious now. And now he's like, mom,
Speaker 1: you got a giggly butt and he'll just go come
Speaker 1: behind me and just jiggle my butt, you know. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, Sebastian, I know you're playing, and I know
Speaker 1: you love me and I'm your mom, but that's my
Speaker 1: private area and you don't touch my mom's private area, okay.
Speaker 1: And he's like, Okay, I understand. And I tell him
Speaker 1: with other girls, because when he goes to his dad's house,
Speaker 1: it's a different dynamic over there, right with a I
Speaker 1: co parent very well, but right, yeah, as a woman,
Speaker 1: you have different sensitivities as his mother. Right, So I
Speaker 1: have conversations with him like when you go to your
Speaker 1: dad's house when you're at school, you don't touch these
Speaker 1: girls inappropriately. You don't touch him at all. Period. I
Speaker 1: have to give you respect, Amber, And how young you're
Speaker 1: starting to teach your son, because you know, obviously we
Speaker 1: were lacking and what I received from from my mother
Speaker 1: and what I gave to Jada. And when I first
Speaker 1: started listening to you talk, I was cringing in my
Speaker 1: head and I was like, girl, but think about your
Speaker 1: own experience. You know, we were waiting way too long,
Speaker 1: too long to teach our children, and this is so important.
Speaker 1: So I just wanna I want to give you respect
Speaker 1: on you, thank you, and I get criticized for it.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you do. But you know what. Those are
Speaker 1: your children, and you know what, I commend you because
Speaker 1: I did the same with them, and I got criticized
Speaker 1: a lot, and it pays off. So I'll just tell
Speaker 1: you that, yeah, it pays off. So there's a heated
Speaker 1: debate about the new rules of sexual behavior. Check out
Speaker 1: what some of the experts have to say. I am
Speaker 1: for not only affirmative consent, but enthusiastic consent. Yes means
Speaker 1: yes with an exclamation point. I am all for partners
Speaker 1: checking in with each other every step of the lecture
Speaker 1: on campuses and increasingly students are describing a perfectly ordinary
Speaker 1: encounter that they feel bad about. And I see a
Speaker 1: readiness to blame men, to accuse men asking consent every
Speaker 1: step of the way. I just can't imagine how that
Speaker 1: would work. There are so many ways of conveying consent
Speaker 1: in an intimate situation that don't involve, you know, signing
Speaker 1: an affidavit. It's dehumanizing. It's taking us back to a
Speaker 1: time where women were considered fragile, delicate, little birds in
Speaker 1: need of protection, damsels in distress. Teaching someone not to
Speaker 1: be a victim isn't blaming the victim. It's common sense.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay, rooms over esteem and what's happening. I
Speaker 1: just think that is such a backwards way of thinking
Speaker 1: about it. I think that's the reason why women are
Speaker 1: so afraid. We have to fight to be heard, we
Speaker 1: have to be viewed as equal people. And to say
Speaker 1: that that we're just being delicate when I didn't have
Speaker 1: a horrible trauma happened to me as a kid and
Speaker 1: I'm still struggling with how to stand up for myself.
Speaker 1: We just have to have some freedom to express ourselves,
Speaker 1: to talk about it. Yeah, it's it's got to shake
Speaker 1: the shame. Shake the shame. I gotta shake it. Former
Speaker 1: NFL player DeAndre Levy has some strong opinions when it
Speaker 1: comes to consent. Former pro football player DeAndre Levy has
Speaker 1: been called the most interesting man in the NFL because
Speaker 1: honestly is frightening. Always known as an outspoken and socially
Speaker 1: conscious player, He's focusing on helping women on the issue
Speaker 1: of consent by calling out men and challenging them to
Speaker 1: understand that it is an issue they need to solve.
Speaker 1: I want to say that you are a very confident
Speaker 1: man to be sitting at this. I had to work
Speaker 1: my nerves back, but we love that you're here. Why
Speaker 1: did you take consent on as your cause? I didn't
Speaker 1: hear consent until I was well into my adult years.
Speaker 1: I've been taught more that a woman will set me up,
Speaker 1: try to trap me, be careful. A woman will lie,
Speaker 1: try to get my money. As men were talking, with
Speaker 1: woman's body, it's ours for the taking, especially if we
Speaker 1: already have sex. Worders like she belongs to us, she's ours,
Speaker 1: we can do whatever now right. It's like an indictment
Speaker 1: against our masculinity, our manhood if we're denying sex. Once
Speaker 1: you had that as a starting point, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: no telling how how how messy it can get for you.
Speaker 1: But how many times are you maybe intimidating, coercing, getting
Speaker 1: into this space where you're guilting a woman out of
Speaker 1: fulfilling a wife for not wanting it. And then it's
Speaker 1: just the way that we try to prove a man
Speaker 1: who that's what we're supposed to do, like we're supposed
Speaker 1: to So she says, no, it's our job to convince you.
Speaker 1: She says we don't want to us our job to like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a shot against us if we're not closing the deal.
Speaker 1: It's the same thing as a way that women see
Speaker 1: being desired as a way to have validation. Like the
Speaker 1: other songs, it's like that validation of like oh she
Speaker 1: wants to have sex with me, like Okay, I'm man enough,
Speaker 1: I'm worthy, and simply just a love and matching the belt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how do we educate men to think differently? And is
Speaker 1: it possible? Yeah, that's a bigger question because I feel
Speaker 1: like it's it's so pervasive. It's like trying to change
Speaker 1: the entire site. It's like, how do you solve racism?
Speaker 1: Like you know what I'm saying. I think I think
Speaker 1: the culture is so deeply grained. It's really I know
Speaker 1: what I can do, Like I can talk to my
Speaker 1: nephews then the next generation. I can try to hold
Speaker 1: myself accountable and try to hold others accountable. How many
Speaker 1: times that we have like a male figure in the life,
Speaker 1: an older one who's already telling them about girls, like
Speaker 1: go do this to the girl, this, how you talk
Speaker 1: to the girl, do this? Do that? I think you
Speaker 1: can teach about consent when they're younger. That's not just
Speaker 1: about sexuality, right, It's about asking someone is this okay?
Speaker 1: I try to do that, enforce that my nephews when
Speaker 1: it's like, go give song so a hug before you
Speaker 1: leave them, Like, well do you want to give him
Speaker 1: a hug? Do you want to? Yeah? I hate that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you got to put that force little kids to give
Speaker 1: adults hugs and they don't want to. Yeah, And they
Speaker 1: don't want to they don't know them. It's like a hug.
Speaker 1: If they say no, that's I feel like that's the
Speaker 1: way we there are five six years old. You can
Speaker 1: see that they're no, it's important exactly. They can understand
Speaker 1: it for themselves. I think they can understand it when
Speaker 1: you hear from somebody else. I've never seen a man
Speaker 1: talk about consent no. Yeah, So I think it's so
Speaker 1: awesome that you do, because so many women talk about it,
Speaker 1: and it's like from a man's point of view, sometimes
Speaker 1: it's almost like, oh, well, there they go talking again
Speaker 1: about whatever it is they're talking about. You know what
Speaker 1: I mean, we're over dramatic, like I didn't do anything
Speaker 1: that I totally So it's like when it's coming from
Speaker 1: another man. I feel like they are like, oh, my
Speaker 1: bro is telling me this, Like maybe I should think
Speaker 1: about that? And then, knowing what you know now, has
Speaker 1: it made you look at your past little differently? Of course?
Speaker 1: So I look back at my sexual history people I've
Speaker 1: had interactions with, and you know, like, did I make
Speaker 1: you uncomfortable? Like? I know I didn't rape anybody, but
Speaker 1: I know I know that, right, But we talked about
Speaker 1: the gray area. Did I make you uncomfortable that I
Speaker 1: put too much pressure dimmest back into your path? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: just what made you do that? Hold myself accountable? The
Speaker 1: only way you can change somebody's perspective is to really
Speaker 1: be able to listen, to put yourself in their shoes,
Speaker 1: and really really internalize the experience. I'm like, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm listening to women. How is it affecting me as
Speaker 1: a man? How many situations if I went into where
Speaker 1: my expectation was higher than hers, it was my expectation offer.
Speaker 1: Did I make you feel pressured in any way? Did
Speaker 1: you feel respective? You know what I mean? Like, I
Speaker 1: think so often our first response is to be defensive
Speaker 1: and be like, no, this didn't happen, that didn't happen.
Speaker 1: Just take a minute to listen and really ask yourself,
Speaker 1: did something go wrong? Right? So, how can we stop
Speaker 1: non consensual sex? One woman says she has the answer. Okay.
Speaker 1: Women are often times unaware of what they like in
Speaker 1: the bedroom. Therefore, they tend to go along with what
Speaker 1: is suggested. There's an incredible tool called the I want,
Speaker 1: I will, I won't list. This is a very long
Speaker 1: document that lists anything and everything one might imagine doing sexually.
Speaker 1: I have found that if you feel a little apprehensive
Speaker 1: getting together with girlfriends and going through this list with
Speaker 1: maybe a bottle of wine, and you have the opportunity
Speaker 1: to kind of get more in tune with your own
Speaker 1: sexual desires. So I want to encourage all women out
Speaker 1: there to push yourself beyond your comfort zone so you
Speaker 1: don't end up in the gray zone. So let's cool.
Speaker 1: I've never seen it. I want, I will, I won't list.
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, we're gonna provide the checklist for
Speaker 1: I like it. Let's bring the fishball out. What a treat?
Speaker 1: All right? You guys are our guests. Oh it's to me, Okay,
Speaker 1: anybody's on how to withdraw consent once things have gotten
Speaker 1: started it's a great question. I think that at any
Speaker 1: point in time, you can say I'm uncomfortable, I really
Speaker 1: want to stop at any point in time, do not
Speaker 1: care about anybody else's feelings. I think that's where it
Speaker 1: gets great because I've been there, She's been there where
Speaker 1: you're like, I don't want to stop them because it's
Speaker 1: like I don't want to hurt his feelings and he's
Speaker 1: gonna talk about me when I leave, and then his
Speaker 1: friends are gonna think I'm some you know, lame. Do
Speaker 1: what's best for you in that moment, it is okay
Speaker 1: to be selfish. There you go. Ly Stephen from Saint Paul, Minnesota.
Speaker 1: Anyone at the red table. Every unsolicited dick picks? Yes,
Speaker 1: I got one the other day, my dull before. I've
Speaker 1: never checked my I had never got one before, and
Speaker 1: I wow, I got one on Facebook from a woman?
Speaker 1: Oh what from Facebook? From a woman? Some some guy?
Speaker 1: Oh so it was she was like, look at this.
Speaker 1: I just the leadership. I thought it was very strange
Speaker 1: because I really did, Why do men think that's attractive?
Speaker 1: It is up with the random picks? Even in relationships
Speaker 1: or when I was dating guys and they would send
Speaker 1: me a dick pic. I'd be like, like, that's not sex,
Speaker 1: it's not sexy, like a stomach something smiles. So I'm
Speaker 1: going to do a public announcement. Men, we want you
Speaker 1: to know we don't like pigs. Aren't that sexy? Yeah? Nothing,
Speaker 1: there's nothing chest abs that's sexy. Yeah. I also want
Speaker 1: to come out and say, as women, we need to
Speaker 1: stop penis shaming. Right, that's you know, if we want
Speaker 1: to quality, we need to stop shaming the size of
Speaker 1: men's penises because they're literally born that way and nothing.
Speaker 1: We'll get a buildo and have fun. But other than that,
Speaker 1: if we want respect, we have to give you. How
Speaker 1: do I know if she is just playing hard to
Speaker 1: get or really doesn't want it? Lots of mixed signals
Speaker 1: you're expecting us to navigate help Well, just ask? Yeah,
Speaker 1: like just ask. It might not be cute or sexy,
Speaker 1: Like you don't have to say is this okay with you?
Speaker 1: Can I touch your boob? You don't have to make
Speaker 1: it very robotic and weird. You can just do you
Speaker 1: like it when I do this? Is this okay? Why
Speaker 1: does that seem to be such a thing? I feel
Speaker 1: like I hear that a lot where it's like it
Speaker 1: throws off the rhythm, it throws off the flow. It's unnatural.
Speaker 1: What does that say about like how we're supposed to
Speaker 1: engage in sex, Like I feel like everybody makes it
Speaker 1: seem like it's such an awkward thing to just simply
Speaker 1: ask or get some type of confirmation from her. Affirmation
Speaker 1: but not stupid. You know, when a woman is uncomfortable
Speaker 1: stopping you can she's pulling away, if it's any type
Speaker 1: of body language, look at her face, look at how
Speaker 1: she's reacting. Is she and kissing and touching you back?
Speaker 1: Like I feel like it's just dude trying to find loopholes,
Speaker 1: Like that's a loophole she didn't really say exactly like
Speaker 1: this guy said. Okay, And by the way, also like
Speaker 1: this whole playing hard to get things as women, let's
Speaker 1: just stop that right. Let's it's immature and it's just
Speaker 1: perpetuating this and making it confusing. Let's just all be
Speaker 1: a little bit more clear and maybe we can figure
Speaker 1: out a way to not have this happen. Well, there
Speaker 1: it is. Well, thank you guys, I really appreciate this
Speaker 1: wasn't awesome awesome, awesome conversation today. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for doing this, this show about this because it's so important. Yeah, DeAndre,
Speaker 1: I'm really commend you and I'm so happy we had
Speaker 1: you here too, just for your input and your insight.
Speaker 1: It's deeply hopeful, it is. And miss Amber, you keep
Speaker 1: doing what you doing. You keeping your fast self as well. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: the Red Table strikes again. Up to join the red
Speaker 1: table Talk family and become a part of the conversation,
Speaker 1: follow us at facebook dot com slash red table Talk.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of Red Table Talk podcast,
Speaker 1: produced by Facebook Watch, Westbrook Audio, and I Heart Radio.