WEBVTT - Jesse Malin 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:20.236 --> 0:00:22.676 Jesse Mallin quite literally came of age on stage in 0:00:22.676 --> 0:00:25.436 the gritty clubs of New York City. At just twelve 0:00:25.476 --> 0:00:27.716 years old, he fronted Heart Attack, one of the earliest 0:00:27.716 --> 0:00:30.596 hardcore groups in the city. After they broke up in 0:00:30.636 --> 0:00:32.756 eighty four, Jesse went on to play in other groups, 0:00:32.756 --> 0:00:35.716 including Hope, and later co found a d Generation, a 0:00:35.716 --> 0:00:39.156 glam punk band that toured extensively through the nineties, opening 0:00:39.196 --> 0:00:43.236 for acts like Kiss, the Ramones and Social Distortion. In 0:00:43.236 --> 0:00:45.956 the early two thousands, Jesse launched a solo career, trading 0:00:46.036 --> 0:00:49.556 hardcore for a more singer songwriter driven approach. As a 0:00:49.556 --> 0:00:52.596 solo artist, he's collaborated with a wide range of musicians, 0:00:52.676 --> 0:00:56.436 including Bruce Springsteen, lusen To Williams, and Billy Joe Armstrong. 0:00:57.276 --> 0:01:00.516 A true musician's musician, Jesse has long been a beloved 0:01:00.556 --> 0:01:03.236 figure in the rock community, so when he suffered a 0:01:03.316 --> 0:01:05.596 rare spinal stroke in twenty twenty three that left him 0:01:05.596 --> 0:01:09.836 temporarily paralyzed from the waist down, that community rallied around him. 0:01:10.156 --> 0:01:13.556 The result was Silver Patron Saints The Songs of Jesse Mallin, 0:01:14.156 --> 0:01:16.596 a twenty twenty four tribute album featuring covers of his 0:01:16.676 --> 0:01:20.756 songs by friends and admirers. Jesse's also debuting a musical 0:01:20.796 --> 0:01:24.156 this fall, called Jesse Mallin Silver Manhattan, A Musical Guide 0:01:24.156 --> 0:01:27.116 to Survival, at the Grammercy Theater in New York. On 0:01:27.156 --> 0:01:29.676 today's episode, Bruce Hedlm talks with Jesse Mallin about his 0:01:29.756 --> 0:01:32.636 colorful upbringing and Queen's, how he found the nerve to 0:01:32.676 --> 0:01:35.436 try out for a gig at CBGB's at age twelve, 0:01:35.676 --> 0:01:37.716 and what it was like during the formative years of 0:01:37.756 --> 0:01:41.596 New York's hardcore scene. Jesse also shares how his positive 0:01:41.596 --> 0:01:44.876 mental attitude helped him through the toughest chapter of his life, 0:01:45.396 --> 0:01:51.476 recovering from the stroke that nearly ended his ability to walk. 0:01:51.636 --> 0:02:01.236 This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. Here's Bruce 0:02:01.276 --> 0:02:02.796 Headlam with Jesse Mallin. 0:02:04.556 --> 0:02:07.636 I always assumed, because you're the mayor of East Village, 0:02:07.996 --> 0:02:09.996 that you grow up downtown New York. But you didn't. 0:02:10.236 --> 0:02:11.676 Well, I'm not in politics. I don't know about the 0:02:11.716 --> 0:02:12.116 mayor thing. 0:02:12.156 --> 0:02:13.756 Somebody once said that, But no, I grew up in 0:02:13.836 --> 0:02:18.796 Queen's and I was born in Flushing, and yeah, the 0:02:18.796 --> 0:02:22.516 city isn't that far away from Queens but when you know, 0:02:22.756 --> 0:02:25.676 living in a suburban, middle class kind of you know, 0:02:25.876 --> 0:02:28.356 place like that. It's not everybody goes there or gets 0:02:28.396 --> 0:02:30.236 to go there to do. They stay sometimes and just 0:02:30.276 --> 0:02:32.956 become part of Queen's. But I knew that there were 0:02:32.956 --> 0:02:34.916 things in the city, and you could, you know, see 0:02:34.916 --> 0:02:36.676 it in magazines and hear it on the radio, or 0:02:36.676 --> 0:02:38.756 if you went to the circus at Mattis Square Garden. 0:02:38.756 --> 0:02:41.116 You might drive down another street and see something crazy 0:02:41.156 --> 0:02:42.396 and suddenly be like. 0:02:42.356 --> 0:02:43.716 Wow, what's going on over there? 0:02:43.836 --> 0:02:46.276 You know? Man in movies you got to see New York. 0:02:46.316 --> 0:02:50.236 New York just different now. But yeah, Queen's was definitely 0:02:50.236 --> 0:02:51.276 the early days. 0:02:51.636 --> 0:02:53.516 And what was it like? What was family life like? 0:02:53.996 --> 0:02:56.116 I grew up with my mom and my sister of 0:02:56.196 --> 0:02:59.756 a sister younger. My father left pretty early on, and 0:02:59.796 --> 0:03:01.516 my mom was a single mom who wanted to be 0:03:01.596 --> 0:03:05.196 a singer, but they got divorced young. They had us young, 0:03:05.836 --> 0:03:08.996 and she just did everything from waitressing to working in 0:03:09.116 --> 0:03:12.236 Bloomingdale's at a makeup counter to you know, whatever she 0:03:12.276 --> 0:03:15.036 could do to get by, and so it led for 0:03:15.156 --> 0:03:17.756 some freedom. Sometimes we had babysitters and limes. She couldn't 0:03:17.756 --> 0:03:21.436 afford babies that we were alone, and that was exciting. 0:03:21.476 --> 0:03:23.996 I didn't think it was anything bad or dangerous. It 0:03:24.036 --> 0:03:26.156 was fun to me. But my mom was very loving, 0:03:26.556 --> 0:03:28.076 but she had a lot on her plate. She was 0:03:28.116 --> 0:03:31.236 in her twenties, so I think sometimes she let me 0:03:31.356 --> 0:03:32.956 do a lot of things that a kid my age 0:03:32.956 --> 0:03:34.716 wouldn't be able to do or see, like go to 0:03:34.756 --> 0:03:36.916 see One Floor of the Cuckoo's Nest with Jack Nicholson 0:03:36.956 --> 0:03:39.516 when I'm eight for my birthday, because you know, where 0:03:39.516 --> 0:03:40.156 other parents, she. 0:03:40.436 --> 0:03:42.636 Maybe felt bad, she wasn't able to give other things, 0:03:42.636 --> 0:03:43.556 so she was loose. 0:03:43.676 --> 0:03:47.316 You know, here, here's a record, or here's magazines you want, 0:03:47.396 --> 0:03:49.796 or you know, to break some of those rules. In 0:03:49.836 --> 0:03:52.276 those days, films were such a big thing for me. 0:03:52.596 --> 0:03:54.476 If I couldn't see a film, I'd read the Mad 0:03:54.596 --> 0:03:58.116 magazine satire of it and pretend to somebody that I 0:03:58.196 --> 0:04:02.196 saw the film. But they were windows into an adult life. 0:04:02.236 --> 0:04:04.556 I really wanted to grow up fast. I was excited 0:04:04.596 --> 0:04:08.916 by film and music and the teenagers. Queen's had a 0:04:08.956 --> 0:04:11.476 day different thing than my neighborhood in Whitestone, where people 0:04:11.516 --> 0:04:13.756 hung out in the streets, you know, even though it 0:04:13.876 --> 0:04:16.076 was the seventies and it wasn't like. 0:04:16.076 --> 0:04:17.316 Do wop people in a tunnel. 0:04:17.356 --> 0:04:19.636 But there were like kids listening to like Leonard Skinner 0:04:19.636 --> 0:04:21.916 and drinking forty ounce bottles in the park or a 0:04:21.956 --> 0:04:24.636 school yard with a boombox, or you know, you'd hear 0:04:24.716 --> 0:04:27.156 Cashmeer by led Zeppelin, and you know they were stoned 0:04:27.196 --> 0:04:29.716 out like a Cheech and Chong movie. The bus that 0:04:29.796 --> 0:04:31.676 went to school was a city bus, and it was 0:04:31.796 --> 0:04:37.036 just boomboxes and smoke. And I got caught up in 0:04:37.156 --> 0:04:40.276 you know, radio AM radio first, and me and my 0:04:40.356 --> 0:04:42.876 cousin would judge any song if we heard on a radio, 0:04:42.996 --> 0:04:45.596 we'd try to get a buck or fifty cents, I think, 0:04:45.636 --> 0:04:48.876 and buy a single at Corvette's out there. And then 0:04:49.196 --> 0:04:50.876 if we liked it, the way we judge it is 0:04:50.916 --> 0:04:53.196 we could jump on the bed really fast and try 0:04:53.196 --> 0:04:55.436 to hit the ceiling. That meant it was a good song. 0:04:55.996 --> 0:04:58.916 And in the seventies, the fifties was a big nostalgia 0:04:58.996 --> 0:05:02.116 so American graffiti. We got Chuck Berry Johnny be Good 0:05:02.116 --> 0:05:05.076 and it was so rocket and Elton John came out 0:05:05.116 --> 0:05:09.116 with Crocodile Rock, which had a fifties thing, and suddenly 0:05:09.316 --> 0:05:11.836 I got Intelton John and that would be the first 0:05:12.236 --> 0:05:16.796 artist that I really Some babysitter had Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, 0:05:17.076 --> 0:05:19.196 and I just opened it up and I stared at 0:05:19.196 --> 0:05:23.756 the illustrations for each song, and I read the lyrics 0:05:24.036 --> 0:05:28.756 along with the record, and it was very adult, but 0:05:29.076 --> 0:05:32.036 very It was something dark, but he were these beautiful 0:05:32.116 --> 0:05:34.996 songs with this beautiful voice. And then there was some 0:05:35.076 --> 0:05:38.116 kind of anger and something dirty and screwed up. And 0:05:38.116 --> 0:05:40.076 I don't know what's going on to merrilman Roe or 0:05:40.076 --> 0:05:44.076 what happened with this lesbian Alice or this, you know, like, 0:05:44.116 --> 0:05:47.076 but I wanted to know, and I felt something, even 0:05:47.116 --> 0:05:49.156 though I didn't know fully. 0:05:49.356 --> 0:05:51.036 Was that was that stuff a little scary to you 0:05:51.196 --> 0:05:52.276 or just attractive to you? 0:05:52.396 --> 0:05:55.596 It was attractive scary a little In some of the photos, 0:05:55.676 --> 0:05:57.916 you know, the drummer Nigel Olsen had long hair. He 0:05:58.036 --> 0:06:00.996 looked like a woman. And then it was just it 0:06:01.116 --> 0:06:03.396 said it was okay, you know. I mean, I liked 0:06:03.436 --> 0:06:05.476 in Benny and the Jets because I'd be angry at 0:06:05.516 --> 0:06:07.636 my father, angry at teachers, and it said, you know, 0:06:07.676 --> 0:06:10.716 we'll fight our parents out in the street to prove 0:06:10.716 --> 0:06:12.556 who's right and who's wrong. And it was like a 0:06:12.636 --> 0:06:14.556 rallying cry and some of this I'd never heard a 0:06:14.596 --> 0:06:17.196 live audience. The beginning of Benny and Jetsy, here a 0:06:17.356 --> 0:06:19.476 crowd applause, and like you felt like it was a 0:06:19.516 --> 0:06:23.796 concert entering your little room. And then Elton John came 0:06:23.836 --> 0:06:26.756 out in the seventies that he was bisexual, and we 0:06:26.756 --> 0:06:30.436 were living in a kind of racist, homophobic being. You know, 0:06:30.476 --> 0:06:34.556 it's Archie Bunker's Queens. It's a lot of close minded 0:06:34.596 --> 0:06:37.156 people that would say stuff about other races. You know, 0:06:37.196 --> 0:06:41.236 we grew up talking that way. And my family, my 0:06:41.356 --> 0:06:44.876 grandfather and you know, they were Jewish people. I wasn't 0:06:44.956 --> 0:06:48.596 raised religious, but they understood discrimination and that kind of 0:06:48.636 --> 0:06:51.676 persecution that people got. So we were hip to like 0:06:51.716 --> 0:06:53.716 that we weren't going to say the N word or 0:06:53.716 --> 0:06:56.596 look at anyone different than I was black, right, red, 0:06:56.796 --> 0:06:59.276 you know, brown Like it was in that way that 0:06:59.356 --> 0:07:01.636 was put into my head that to that people are 0:07:01.636 --> 0:07:06.116 people and that there's no judgment. So when Elton John 0:07:06.276 --> 0:07:08.276 kind of came out and said, oh, he's gay, he's by, 0:07:08.396 --> 0:07:10.676 he's this, to me, I was like, well that's cool, 0:07:10.716 --> 0:07:14.156 that's okay. If my guy is, he's great. Elton John like, 0:07:14.276 --> 0:07:17.236 and here was this person that had to wear glasses, 0:07:17.276 --> 0:07:18.996 and I had to wear glasses, and here's this guy 0:07:19.036 --> 0:07:21.836 that wasn't like beautiful, looking like a Rod Stewart or 0:07:21.876 --> 0:07:25.716 Robert Plant and took maybe the things and I didn't 0:07:25.716 --> 0:07:28.036 realize at the time, but those weaknesses where you're you 0:07:28.036 --> 0:07:31.116 don't feel you're the super Elvis hunk, and you do 0:07:31.156 --> 0:07:34.476 all this other stuff to make yourself larger than life 0:07:34.636 --> 0:07:38.076 and make you create your own image and your own 0:07:38.196 --> 0:07:41.036 art and reality with your appearance. And that was mixed 0:07:41.036 --> 0:07:44.036 with this beautiful voice and the fact that oh he's 0:07:44.036 --> 0:07:46.476 bisexual and kids said, oh he's gay. He's like, well, 0:07:46.476 --> 0:07:48.436 then that's okay. So it sent a lot of great 0:07:48.476 --> 0:07:51.476 messages to somebody. Same thing with seeing the movie Dogged 0:07:51.516 --> 0:07:54.276 Afternoon at a young age and you find out that 0:07:54.316 --> 0:07:57.996 al Pacino's robbing the bank the character Sonny to pay 0:07:58.116 --> 0:08:02.476 for his lover's you know, operation to have a you know, 0:08:02.556 --> 0:08:05.916 sex change, and I'm in Queen's where everybody is so 0:08:06.356 --> 0:08:09.556 anti gay, and yet it's al Pacino who just did 0:08:09.596 --> 0:08:12.476 The Godfather and just did Cerpercos. It's the guy like 0:08:12.516 --> 0:08:15.156 in Sanulai Fever when johns Fulda goes, oh, do you know, well, 0:08:15.676 --> 0:08:17.476 they were a hero and they stuck with him. I 0:08:17.516 --> 0:08:21.276 remember nobody yelled out home, oh well, walked out. Everybody stayed. 0:08:21.796 --> 0:08:25.796 And it just the messages that it's okay to be different, 0:08:25.996 --> 0:08:29.676 it's okay to be weird. And I was hyperactive kid. 0:08:29.716 --> 0:08:31.676 I was getting thrown out of school. I was angry 0:08:31.716 --> 0:08:33.596 at it. So I had to go to a therapist 0:08:33.796 --> 0:08:35.796 or go talk to people in the school. So I thought, 0:08:36.236 --> 0:08:38.356 I'm crazy or they treat me like great, well, then 0:08:38.396 --> 0:08:40.916 maybe crazy's okay, and maybe the character one flow of 0:08:40.916 --> 0:08:43.636 the Cucko's Nest is different than the rest of the 0:08:43.756 --> 0:08:46.076 mold and the system and the mainstream. And I think 0:08:46.596 --> 0:08:49.236 those were punk rock ideas that were being fed into me. 0:08:49.276 --> 0:08:51.556 And then I got into Kiss. I was at that 0:08:51.716 --> 0:08:54.236 age and they were from New York and it was like, 0:08:54.396 --> 0:08:57.556 you know, all the action films, Billy Jack and Clint 0:08:57.596 --> 0:09:00.396 East and everything and rock and roll thrown into one 0:09:00.476 --> 0:09:04.436 and fire and at that point, the older kids they 0:09:04.436 --> 0:09:06.636 didn't like it. The kids that like Sabbath and Zeppelin 0:09:06.676 --> 0:09:07.636 and even the Grateful Dead. 0:09:07.676 --> 0:09:10.356 It was like Kiss sucks, Yeah, got beat up. 0:09:10.596 --> 0:09:13.716 It was the first album, that Kiss album, I guess Destroyer. 0:09:14.036 --> 0:09:17.316 I remember people just carrying around at school with their books. Ye, 0:09:17.596 --> 0:09:19.876 well so cool. I know you're not there. There's no 0:09:19.916 --> 0:09:22.156 record play. It's just like they just carried it with 0:09:22.196 --> 0:09:23.356 them everywhere they went. 0:09:23.916 --> 0:09:26.316 Yeah, it was twelve inches. It's it's you know, it's 0:09:26.316 --> 0:09:28.636 a statement. But so that was you know, I was 0:09:28.756 --> 0:09:30.156 loved the band. I was in the Kiss Army. I 0:09:30.156 --> 0:09:32.676 would have did anything, played in the Talent Show first time, 0:09:32.796 --> 0:09:35.916 spitting ketchup instead of blood, dressed as Steet Simmons. But 0:09:36.476 --> 0:09:38.756 the thing about them, it was a band. It felt 0:09:38.796 --> 0:09:41.236 like a gang. It felt like more than just a song. 0:09:41.276 --> 0:09:42.956 It was like, I want to be part of this thing. 0:09:42.996 --> 0:09:45.236 I want to raise my fist. I want to tell 0:09:45.276 --> 0:09:47.076 my parents I'm not going to be like them and 0:09:47.116 --> 0:09:48.996 work that job. I'm not going to turn into them. 0:09:49.076 --> 0:09:52.476 We have another there's another chance, there's another road. And 0:09:52.556 --> 0:09:54.916 we got beat up and made fun of by everybody 0:09:54.956 --> 0:09:57.156 that you know, was like kiss suck that didn't like it. 0:09:57.236 --> 0:10:00.036 So that was preparing me for punk rock because once 0:10:00.076 --> 0:10:03.156 I got it to that, then you're really hated at 0:10:03.156 --> 0:10:05.476 that time, even by you know, it wasn't like these 0:10:05.556 --> 0:10:08.996 days where people like a lot of different things, like 0:10:09.196 --> 0:10:11.036 to what you liked and if you were into punk. 0:10:11.116 --> 0:10:13.756 They figured you killed your girlfriend like said Vicious or 0:10:13.796 --> 0:10:15.276 a junkie or a fact like. 0:10:15.236 --> 0:10:15.876 Whatever it was. 0:10:15.956 --> 0:10:19.276 It wasn't didn't have that open minded this that a 0:10:19.316 --> 0:10:21.916 festival might have right now at Coachella or somewhere where 0:10:21.916 --> 0:10:22.316 you get. 0:10:22.196 --> 0:10:22.996 A little everything. 0:10:23.116 --> 0:10:24.436 Yeah, it's fine, but I. 0:10:24.396 --> 0:10:27.796 Respect like in the mods and rockers or punks and skins. 0:10:27.796 --> 0:10:29.356 Like I respected people. 0:10:29.276 --> 0:10:30.916 If you go to London, you go to some SKA 0:10:31.036 --> 0:10:34.076 show now or something, and you see people that they're lifers, 0:10:34.116 --> 0:10:36.996 like rockabilly, like they're in it and they'll fight and 0:10:37.036 --> 0:10:39.796 that's their thing. Metal people are like that. They're they're 0:10:39.916 --> 0:10:43.316 very into it. That dedication I respect. But I think 0:10:43.356 --> 0:10:45.556 that you know, we all kind of probably like just 0:10:45.636 --> 0:10:47.596 good music, all kinds of music. It's almost it's. 0:10:47.476 --> 0:10:47.956 Good, you know. 0:10:48.076 --> 0:10:51.196 Yeah, no you said tribes. Yeah, what was the first 0:10:51.236 --> 0:10:52.196 punk song you heard? 0:10:52.916 --> 0:10:55.356 I probably heard blitz Creak Bop, but I didn't realize 0:10:55.356 --> 0:10:57.316 what was going on. It came through on the radio 0:10:57.356 --> 0:11:00.716 and I just knew it. But I was watching some 0:11:01.356 --> 0:11:05.356 TV Choice Awards, some kind of awards show somehow, and 0:11:05.396 --> 0:11:08.156 the sex Pistols came on and it heard about them 0:11:08.556 --> 0:11:11.036 The New York and a few things. But it just 0:11:11.276 --> 0:11:14.396 you know, just seeing it, seeing the little clip of 0:11:14.436 --> 0:11:17.116 how Johnny Rotten played to the camera, and it was 0:11:17.516 --> 0:11:20.756 way tougher than Kiss and way angrier. And it also 0:11:20.956 --> 0:11:23.676 was like I could do this, I think, like, you know, 0:11:23.836 --> 0:11:25.836 it just had a thing. It was like if Kiss 0:11:25.916 --> 0:11:28.476 made me want to yell and scream, this made you 0:11:28.516 --> 0:11:30.556 don't want to go to my room and throw everything 0:11:30.636 --> 0:11:33.356 out and like just start again and break things up 0:11:33.396 --> 0:11:33.876 in a way. 0:11:34.116 --> 0:11:37.316 Now, had you started playing any instruments by this point. 0:11:37.676 --> 0:11:40.236 Yeah, like around the Kiss time, I started to go 0:11:40.276 --> 0:11:42.436 for some guitar lessons and of course, you know, they're 0:11:42.476 --> 0:11:44.476 teaching you Stare Away the Heaven by Led Zeppelin, and 0:11:44.476 --> 0:11:46.996 they're teaching you all this free bird and classic stuff. 0:11:47.036 --> 0:11:48.356 And it took a lot of work. 0:11:48.636 --> 0:11:48.916 Yeah. 0:11:48.956 --> 0:11:51.516 So once I you know, then got a Ramones record, 0:11:51.676 --> 0:11:53.676 I realized, oh, they're from Queens. They wear the same 0:11:53.756 --> 0:11:57.396 leather jackets as Phonsie, one of my TV heroes. They're 0:11:57.556 --> 0:11:59.676 they're like a band, like the way the Beatles and 0:11:59.756 --> 0:12:02.236 Kiss are like each person is like a character, and 0:12:02.236 --> 0:12:04.876 they have these chants like Kiss had you know these 0:12:04.916 --> 0:12:07.116 shouted out loud or rock and roll night, these big 0:12:07.156 --> 0:12:10.156 anthems to chant certain parts with get the floor tom 0:12:10.156 --> 0:12:12.956 and the snare. Well ramones had it in a different way. 0:12:12.956 --> 0:12:15.676 They're yelling, hey ho, let's go a lobotomy. So I 0:12:15.716 --> 0:12:18.196 started to learn those songs. And from learning those songs, 0:12:18.196 --> 0:12:21.916 I was like, I can write. And we heard about 0:12:21.916 --> 0:12:25.476 CBGB's and somebody said, you know, if you call this number, 0:12:25.596 --> 0:12:27.276 you can come in and do an audition. 0:12:27.716 --> 0:12:30.316 I was like twelve, and I called. 0:12:30.116 --> 0:12:32.556 This amazes me. I still want to hear this story. 0:12:32.676 --> 0:12:34.636 I called from the school payphone, and you know, the 0:12:34.716 --> 0:12:37.276 rule was you had to play original music. So you 0:12:37.396 --> 0:12:39.876 put together a band with whoever, like, oh, you have 0:12:39.916 --> 0:12:41.996 a basement and your father has a drum set, you 0:12:42.076 --> 0:12:45.156 have the drummer, like, you know, we'd get whoever could contribute. 0:12:45.156 --> 0:12:47.676 And I wrote some songs and we practiced in the 0:12:47.716 --> 0:12:49.876 basement of somebody else because I lived in an apartment. 0:12:50.516 --> 0:12:52.916 And we got dropped off on the Bowery on a 0:12:52.956 --> 0:12:54.756 Monday night and we went in there. 0:12:54.796 --> 0:12:55.716 It was pretty scary. 0:12:55.836 --> 0:12:58.676 It was like March and we were all about twelve 0:12:58.796 --> 0:13:02.756 or thirteen, and we got on that stage and it 0:13:02.796 --> 0:13:04.836 was like the whole place smelled like you know, I 0:13:04.836 --> 0:13:07.556 didn't know piss and alcohol and vomit. But that's what 0:13:07.596 --> 0:13:09.436 I thought it was supposed to be. And I couldn't 0:13:09.436 --> 0:13:11.716 believe this was the place where Blondie and Talking Heads 0:13:11.716 --> 0:13:14.636 and everybody in Ramones had played. And we played our 0:13:14.716 --> 0:13:17.956 set and I called a week later and they said 0:13:18.116 --> 0:13:21.036 we failed, you know, the audition And I was into 0:13:21.116 --> 0:13:23.836 the Dead Boys and the Ramones and the pistols, and 0:13:23.876 --> 0:13:26.236 they said, yeah, you missed it. That stuff's over, man, 0:13:26.316 --> 0:13:28.516 like you got to try something new like that's because 0:13:28.516 --> 0:13:31.556 this is nineteen eighty. So I was like, well, all right, 0:13:31.716 --> 0:13:33.716 what and they're like, you know, like rockabilly or or 0:13:33.716 --> 0:13:36.556 a new romantic or I was like, wait a minute, 0:13:36.916 --> 0:13:39.876 this is weird. But I found out in time that 0:13:39.956 --> 0:13:42.596 you had to bring twenty people that drank. We didn't 0:13:42.596 --> 0:13:46.436 bring anybody, But somehow, a week later I got a 0:13:46.476 --> 0:13:49.756 call to play at Max's Kansas City. There was somebody 0:13:49.756 --> 0:13:53.316 that saw us there and they booked us for that 0:13:53.436 --> 0:13:57.756 July July fifteenth. It was I remember because it's Johnny 0:13:57.756 --> 0:14:01.556 Thunder's birthday and we knew who he was, and he actually. 0:14:01.196 --> 0:14:02.196 Showed up at the gig. 0:14:02.236 --> 0:14:05.196 But we got to play a show at Max's and 0:14:05.236 --> 0:14:07.956 little By little what they told me I had missed 0:14:07.996 --> 0:14:12.116 this raw, mounky music that I was just getting into. Yeah, 0:14:12.156 --> 0:14:14.596 it was changing. Blondie was starting to get more pomp 0:14:14.636 --> 0:14:17.596 and disco. Ramons are putting on striped shirts and taking 0:14:17.636 --> 0:14:21.036 off the leather and working with Phil Spector, and everybody 0:14:21.076 --> 0:14:23.556 was trying to have a hit. And I walked a 0:14:23.556 --> 0:14:26.276 little further down the street where I bought my leather 0:14:26.316 --> 0:14:30.116 wristbands and records called Saint Mark's Place, and I walked further. 0:14:30.196 --> 0:14:32.196 As I walked further down on the light posts, there 0:14:32.236 --> 0:14:35.636 were signs that looked punky to other clubs that weren't 0:14:35.676 --> 0:14:37.876 advertised in the Village Voice, and they said, you know, 0:14:37.916 --> 0:14:42.596 come down to a seven seventh Street Avenue and bad brains, stimulators, 0:14:42.716 --> 0:14:46.396 false prophets. And that led me to another place where 0:14:46.476 --> 0:14:50.036 this music was still going on. And somehow, without cell 0:14:50.036 --> 0:14:53.276 phones and without you know, even this being in the paper, 0:14:53.876 --> 0:14:56.596 we used a like in spaceballs, used the schworts or whatever, 0:14:56.796 --> 0:15:01.316 some collective unconscious thing. We found each other. Kids my 0:15:01.436 --> 0:15:05.116 age and a little older from Jersey, Long Island, Brooklyn, Queens, 0:15:05.196 --> 0:15:09.276 a lot all ended up on Avenue A because of music. 0:15:09.556 --> 0:15:11.676 So in Queens you had a band like Crowd coming 0:15:11.756 --> 0:15:14.356 on in Forest Hills, Queens. You had Reagan Youth and 0:15:14.356 --> 0:15:16.436 the name says a lot right there. You know, the 0:15:16.556 --> 0:15:19.036 undead lived in the city False Prophets on Avenue B 0:15:19.596 --> 0:15:22.436 and we all just maybe fifty or sixty people were 0:15:22.476 --> 0:15:25.996 part of this thing that would become hardcore. And I 0:15:25.996 --> 0:15:28.156 didn't realize that this was kind of happening in different 0:15:28.196 --> 0:15:30.996 cities where yeah, maybe that was over in the Ramones, 0:15:31.036 --> 0:15:33.796 but somebody that saw the Ramones took it to another level. 0:15:34.276 --> 0:15:36.876 And you had Black Flag in California, and you had 0:15:36.876 --> 0:15:40.436 Dead Kennedy's in Northern California and down in DC, and 0:15:41.116 --> 0:15:42.916 it wasn't ready to end. It was a new chapter 0:15:42.956 --> 0:15:45.276 and Reagan was president, and it felt like we had 0:15:45.276 --> 0:15:48.076 a lot of things to sing about it. It was faster, 0:15:48.476 --> 0:15:50.796 We had our own way of dancing, and you had 0:15:50.796 --> 0:15:53.996 one minute to say everything that you felt about the world. 0:15:54.956 --> 0:15:57.396 So heart Attack was my band. That was the name. 0:15:57.516 --> 0:15:59.636 We put out a single called God Is Dad when 0:15:59.676 --> 0:16:02.596 I was fourteen, and that is pretty much I think 0:16:02.636 --> 0:16:05.516 it's known as the first New York hardcore single. I'm 0:16:05.516 --> 0:16:07.676 not saying it's the best wherever it goes for a 0:16:07.756 --> 0:16:10.556 thousand and changed or a couple bucks. It's a rarity, 0:16:10.596 --> 0:16:12.396 but we did that. 0:16:12.596 --> 0:16:13.476 You kept something right. 0:16:14.076 --> 0:16:15.636 I kept the test pressing somewhere. 0:16:16.756 --> 0:16:20.156 But that was a thing that came out and made 0:16:20.276 --> 0:16:22.396 not want to be in school anymore. And from that 0:16:22.436 --> 0:16:25.076 we played the rits with the Misfits. We started to 0:16:25.116 --> 0:16:28.396 play with groups like Bad Brains, who were incredible. That 0:16:28.476 --> 0:16:31.396 was a band that had jazz fusion chops for black 0:16:31.476 --> 0:16:33.916 dudes from DC that took punk rock to a whole 0:16:33.996 --> 0:16:37.556 other level. Being tight, precise, the whole performance was like 0:16:38.036 --> 0:16:41.436 nothing I'd ever seen. And to know them, and we 0:16:41.476 --> 0:16:45.516 had cheap gear Japanese guitars, and they had they were adults, 0:16:45.556 --> 0:16:48.196 they were nineteen twenty, like you know, twenty one. They 0:16:48.196 --> 0:16:51.196 had real equipment. They would lend us their equipment. And 0:16:51.236 --> 0:16:54.916 they're talking about PMA positive mental latitude. It wasn't the 0:16:54.956 --> 0:16:59.116 seventies destroy cut yourself like. It was like, yeah, we 0:16:59.156 --> 0:17:01.876 can be crazy, have fun and not do drugs and 0:17:01.916 --> 0:17:04.836 not put a needle Like drugs just never seemed exciting 0:17:04.876 --> 0:17:06.516 to be put a needle in your arm, put some 0:17:06.516 --> 0:17:10.196 shit in your nose. Guys, scratching got like that's to me. 0:17:10.276 --> 0:17:12.556 I want to see like, you know, a strong guy 0:17:12.636 --> 0:17:15.156 going crazy up there, or a strong gay like you know, 0:17:15.196 --> 0:17:17.876 it wasn't we want to say all this stuff get 0:17:17.876 --> 0:17:20.996 in your face, and we're a lot of us are sober, like. 0:17:20.956 --> 0:17:23.796 You know, we mean this when you were never tempted 0:17:23.836 --> 0:17:26.956 down that other path because you're downtown New York and 0:17:27.436 --> 0:17:28.436 in the early age. 0:17:28.236 --> 0:17:29.036 And it seems sexy. 0:17:29.076 --> 0:17:30.876 Someone told me, Heroin, I didn't like when I got 0:17:30.916 --> 0:17:32.716 the flu because I couldn't go out and do what 0:17:32.756 --> 0:17:34.676 I like to do. And someone said, Heroin, if you 0:17:34.676 --> 0:17:36.236 you know when you get sick, it's like the flu 0:17:36.716 --> 0:17:38.996 times ten, and you know, you'd look over and it 0:17:39.076 --> 0:17:42.236 was some scratchy you know, and it just didn't look 0:17:42.476 --> 0:17:43.036 fun to me. 0:17:43.796 --> 0:17:46.596 And you were exposed just enough to it to know that. 0:17:46.836 --> 0:17:49.596 Yeah, And there were some people saying, like, you know, 0:17:49.676 --> 0:17:51.716 you don't need to do that. I didn't understand. We 0:17:51.796 --> 0:17:54.396 dragged to an after hours club and suddenly like, what 0:17:54.436 --> 0:17:56.876 are they doing it? There's no bands, this music sucks, 0:17:56.876 --> 0:17:58.836 there's sand on the floor like a beach, and why 0:17:58.876 --> 0:17:59.956 these people Hitle seven? 0:18:00.516 --> 0:18:03.036 Well, I know now, you know, it's like I just 0:18:03.036 --> 0:18:04.556 thought they had a cold. I don't know the guys 0:18:04.556 --> 0:18:06.116 snippe it. It was so naive, but. 0:18:06.556 --> 0:18:08.116 It was always about the music, and I think my 0:18:08.196 --> 0:18:10.316 mom trusted that so I could go to junior high 0:18:10.316 --> 0:18:12.716 school and I could go to A seven and one 0:18:12.876 --> 0:18:15.756 seventy one or CEB's or max Is. In the beginning, 0:18:16.036 --> 0:18:17.996 the parents tried to like pick us up here and there, 0:18:18.036 --> 0:18:19.796 but the shows in those days depends on to go 0:18:19.876 --> 0:18:21.876 onto one or two, so they gave up on that 0:18:22.476 --> 0:18:24.596 and then I'd sneak out. But like she knew, like 0:18:24.676 --> 0:18:27.956 my son has this dream, he believes in music. And 0:18:27.996 --> 0:18:29.716 by the time, you know, still that year of my 0:18:29.756 --> 0:18:32.116 first record, we went to Mexico City did a tour. 0:18:32.156 --> 0:18:34.676 When I was fourteen, things started to open up. 0:18:34.796 --> 0:18:36.516 What was it like to be a fourteen year old 0:18:36.596 --> 0:18:39.916 touring and seeing Mexico City, and you know. 0:18:40.076 --> 0:18:42.196