1 00:00:14,916 --> 00:00:34,716 Speaker 1: Pushkin ballet. It was ballet. I remember the mirrors and 2 00:00:34,916 --> 00:00:39,316 Speaker 1: the little girls, and my stomach was like sort of protruding, 3 00:00:39,516 --> 00:00:43,516 Speaker 1: and no one else's stomachs were protruding. And I became 4 00:00:43,636 --> 00:00:46,836 Speaker 1: very self conscious of it, and I hated going to ballet, 5 00:00:47,316 --> 00:00:50,316 Speaker 1: but I never really explained why. And then as I 6 00:00:50,316 --> 00:00:52,156 Speaker 1: started to grow, I used to actually I would play 7 00:00:52,156 --> 00:00:54,156 Speaker 1: this game as a little girl, where I would squeeze 8 00:00:54,196 --> 00:00:56,636 Speaker 1: the fat on my stomach into a little ball and 9 00:00:56,676 --> 00:00:59,196 Speaker 1: I'd be like, Oh, it's like a tangerine. And then 10 00:00:59,396 --> 00:01:01,036 Speaker 1: I would as I got bigger, I would be like, 11 00:01:01,076 --> 00:01:03,396 Speaker 1: it's like a grapefruit. And then I was like, it's 12 00:01:03,436 --> 00:01:05,596 Speaker 1: like a melon. And then after that, I was like, 13 00:01:05,636 --> 00:01:08,516 Speaker 1: I hate this game. I'm never playing this game again. 14 00:01:09,716 --> 00:01:12,116 Speaker 1: From the time she was a little girl, Elena Baker 15 00:01:12,316 --> 00:01:15,876 Speaker 1: hated her body. She thought if she could just become thin, 16 00:01:16,276 --> 00:01:19,076 Speaker 1: everything in her life would be different, would be better. 17 00:01:19,796 --> 00:01:21,756 Speaker 1: So she went on a mission to lose a ton 18 00:01:21,796 --> 00:01:24,836 Speaker 1: of weight, and she did it. She lost close to 19 00:01:24,876 --> 00:01:28,276 Speaker 1: one hundred pounds in five and a half months, and 20 00:01:28,436 --> 00:01:30,596 Speaker 1: for a moment, it seemed to Elena like she was 21 00:01:30,676 --> 00:01:34,476 Speaker 1: getting everything she wanted, until she started to realize she 22 00:01:34,556 --> 00:01:38,876 Speaker 1: was losing herself in the process. I'm Maya Shunker and 23 00:01:38,956 --> 00:01:41,516 Speaker 1: this is a slight change of plans. A show that 24 00:01:41,596 --> 00:01:44,636 Speaker 1: dieds deep into the world of change and hopefully gets 25 00:01:44,676 --> 00:01:47,356 Speaker 1: us to think differently at that change in our own lives. 26 00:02:08,756 --> 00:02:11,156 Speaker 1: Ea Baker grew up in the nineteen eighties and a 27 00:02:11,196 --> 00:02:14,596 Speaker 1: conservative Mormon family. Like I just was remembering this song. 28 00:02:14,636 --> 00:02:18,156 Speaker 1: I grew up singing. This is the actual lyrics. When 29 00:02:18,236 --> 00:02:21,476 Speaker 1: I grow up, I want to be a mother and 30 00:02:21,636 --> 00:02:25,076 Speaker 1: have a family one little two, little three, little babies 31 00:02:25,076 --> 00:02:27,556 Speaker 1: of my own, and then it keeps going. Of all 32 00:02:27,596 --> 00:02:31,356 Speaker 1: the jobs for me, there is no other I'll have 33 00:02:31,396 --> 00:02:34,516 Speaker 1: a family four, a little five, little six, little babies 34 00:02:34,556 --> 00:02:38,316 Speaker 1: in my home, and you know, and that's like just 35 00:02:38,436 --> 00:02:41,796 Speaker 1: par for the course of being Mormon. From an early age, 36 00:02:41,836 --> 00:02:43,956 Speaker 1: Elena was sold on the idea that if she just 37 00:02:44,036 --> 00:02:46,916 Speaker 1: looked a certain way and acted a certain way, she'd 38 00:02:46,916 --> 00:02:49,396 Speaker 1: be worthy of love. I think a lot of it 39 00:02:49,436 --> 00:02:54,276 Speaker 1: was media. You know. I grew up on Disney movies. 40 00:02:54,396 --> 00:02:58,756 Speaker 1: I grew up on like princess stories. I was weirdly 41 00:02:58,876 --> 00:03:01,876 Speaker 1: very affected by The Little Mermaid, who was my favorite movie. 42 00:03:02,236 --> 00:03:06,476 Speaker 1: But Ursula was this like, you know, supposedly this this gigantic, 43 00:03:06,676 --> 00:03:12,196 Speaker 1: disgusting woman. And I just remember being sold the narrative 44 00:03:12,876 --> 00:03:18,876 Speaker 1: that certain women, if they looked a certain way, were 45 00:03:18,996 --> 00:03:24,036 Speaker 1: invisible and would pine after men and they would never 46 00:03:24,116 --> 00:03:28,316 Speaker 1: be loved. And it's so weird to me that I 47 00:03:28,316 --> 00:03:32,276 Speaker 1: I attached myself to that narrative so young. I actually 48 00:03:32,316 --> 00:03:34,916 Speaker 1: had a conversation with my parents recently because I was like, 49 00:03:35,916 --> 00:03:39,356 Speaker 1: do you remember when I decided I was worthless because 50 00:03:39,396 --> 00:03:42,316 Speaker 1: of the way I looked? And you know, as I 51 00:03:42,316 --> 00:03:43,796 Speaker 1: spoke to my dad about it, you know, it was 52 00:03:43,836 --> 00:03:47,316 Speaker 1: as young as eight years old that I was like, oh, 53 00:03:47,356 --> 00:03:50,276 Speaker 1: I'm just one of the girls who will never be 54 00:03:50,276 --> 00:03:53,396 Speaker 1: beautiful and will never be loved. Do you remember anyone 55 00:03:53,436 --> 00:03:57,396 Speaker 1: ever saying anything to you about your body? Oh? Yeah, yeah, 56 00:03:57,436 --> 00:04:00,116 Speaker 1: I mean everyone said things to me about my body. 57 00:04:00,356 --> 00:04:03,716 Speaker 1: It seemed like it seemed like my body was like 58 00:04:03,836 --> 00:04:08,556 Speaker 1: public domain, you know, So I have, you know, one 59 00:04:08,556 --> 00:04:12,276 Speaker 1: of the memory that was I think I was. I 60 00:04:12,316 --> 00:04:15,916 Speaker 1: was in fifth grade and the yearbook for a school 61 00:04:16,076 --> 00:04:19,356 Speaker 1: costs like seventy dollars, so my parents didn't want to 62 00:04:19,396 --> 00:04:21,956 Speaker 1: buy me and my sister both yearbooks, so we shared 63 00:04:21,996 --> 00:04:25,076 Speaker 1: a yearbook, so she had the front half. I had 64 00:04:25,116 --> 00:04:28,556 Speaker 1: the back half, and I would love to look through 65 00:04:28,596 --> 00:04:31,156 Speaker 1: her section because she was popular, she had friends. I 66 00:04:31,196 --> 00:04:34,076 Speaker 1: would like read all of the people who signed her section. 67 00:04:34,716 --> 00:04:37,596 Speaker 1: And then I noticed that the two most popular boys 68 00:04:37,596 --> 00:04:40,236 Speaker 1: in my grade had signed her section of the yearbook, 69 00:04:41,276 --> 00:04:44,156 Speaker 1: and I thought for a second that they had just 70 00:04:44,196 --> 00:04:47,756 Speaker 1: signed on the wrong side, but then it was addressed 71 00:04:47,756 --> 00:04:49,556 Speaker 1: to my sister, and they didn't even know my sister. 72 00:04:49,716 --> 00:04:52,396 Speaker 1: But one had written, how come you're so beautiful and 73 00:04:52,516 --> 00:04:55,596 Speaker 1: your sister is so ugly? And the other had written, 74 00:04:56,396 --> 00:04:59,756 Speaker 1: I wish your sister looked like you? And I was 75 00:04:59,876 --> 00:05:03,716 Speaker 1: just I mean, I was devastated. I was crying. I 76 00:05:03,916 --> 00:05:07,676 Speaker 1: had I had felt that I was worthless because of 77 00:05:07,676 --> 00:05:11,236 Speaker 1: the way I looked. I had suspected it based on 78 00:05:12,676 --> 00:05:14,716 Speaker 1: the way people would would look at me or look 79 00:05:14,756 --> 00:05:17,556 Speaker 1: at my body. But I think that was like actual 80 00:05:17,636 --> 00:05:21,956 Speaker 1: written confirmation looking back at it. Sorry, I'm getting emotional 81 00:05:22,036 --> 00:05:26,956 Speaker 1: remembering all this. But you know, my mother saw that 82 00:05:26,996 --> 00:05:30,316 Speaker 1: I was worried about my weight, and so she became 83 00:05:30,356 --> 00:05:33,316 Speaker 1: heavily involved, and I you know, to her credit, I 84 00:05:33,356 --> 00:05:35,996 Speaker 1: think she was just trying to help me. But that 85 00:05:36,276 --> 00:05:38,556 Speaker 1: of course made it so much worse, because you know, 86 00:05:38,636 --> 00:05:41,196 Speaker 1: if I went to have seconds at dinner, she would 87 00:05:41,236 --> 00:05:43,436 Speaker 1: nod her head, and you know she didn't do with 88 00:05:43,476 --> 00:05:46,956 Speaker 1: my brothers and sisters. She started taking me to specialist 89 00:05:47,036 --> 00:05:48,956 Speaker 1: in doctors where they would, you know, make me get 90 00:05:49,036 --> 00:05:52,356 Speaker 1: naked and measure me and weigh me, and you know, 91 00:05:52,396 --> 00:05:55,196 Speaker 1: they were worried I had a thyroid issue. And I 92 00:05:55,236 --> 00:05:57,356 Speaker 1: looked back to that time where there was all of 93 00:05:57,396 --> 00:06:00,876 Speaker 1: this effort to try to understand what was wrong with Elma, 94 00:06:01,036 --> 00:06:03,996 Speaker 1: and I look at pictures and I was actually totally 95 00:06:04,076 --> 00:06:08,436 Speaker 1: normal sized. Like it's it doesn't it's unfortunate. It's like 96 00:06:08,516 --> 00:06:13,756 Speaker 1: all the effort to prevent this thing from happening ended 97 00:06:13,836 --> 00:06:17,236 Speaker 1: up being the catalyst for that thing happening. Because something 98 00:06:17,556 --> 00:06:21,116 Speaker 1: happened to my mind. By the time I was sixteen, 99 00:06:21,156 --> 00:06:23,876 Speaker 1: and you know, at my heaviest, at my heaviest, I 100 00:06:23,956 --> 00:06:27,396 Speaker 1: was two hundred and sixty pounds, I was definitely in 101 00:06:27,436 --> 00:06:30,996 Speaker 1: a place where I thought I didn't deserve to live, 102 00:06:31,076 --> 00:06:34,636 Speaker 1: Like I was considering ending my life because of the 103 00:06:34,676 --> 00:06:38,876 Speaker 1: way I looked. That's how that's how much I hated 104 00:06:39,916 --> 00:06:43,996 Speaker 1: my body, how much I hated myself because I didn't 105 00:06:44,076 --> 00:06:48,276 Speaker 1: feel like if I looked this way that I deserved 106 00:06:48,276 --> 00:06:52,996 Speaker 1: any love or deserved to live. Elma continued to feel 107 00:06:52,996 --> 00:06:56,036 Speaker 1: this way about herself for years. One day, when she 108 00:06:56,116 --> 00:06:59,476 Speaker 1: was twenty two, it all came into full focus. She 109 00:06:59,556 --> 00:07:01,876 Speaker 1: and her family took a trip to an amusement park 110 00:07:02,076 --> 00:07:04,436 Speaker 1: where there was a funhouse with a hallway of mirrors. 111 00:07:04,996 --> 00:07:07,356 Speaker 1: And so, as a family were walking down this hallway 112 00:07:07,396 --> 00:07:12,556 Speaker 1: of mirrors and I turned the corner and the mirror 113 00:07:12,636 --> 00:07:15,316 Speaker 1: in front of me, I saw this woman in it 114 00:07:15,516 --> 00:07:19,756 Speaker 1: and it was me thin but proportionately thin. It wasn't 115 00:07:19,796 --> 00:07:22,076 Speaker 1: one of those like where they stretch you out really 116 00:07:22,076 --> 00:07:26,716 Speaker 1: really long. It was just like what I would look 117 00:07:26,756 --> 00:07:29,476 Speaker 1: like if I was a different person. If I was 118 00:07:29,316 --> 00:07:36,156 Speaker 1: it was a thin woman. And I mean I could 119 00:07:36,356 --> 00:07:39,356 Speaker 1: not be torn away from that mirror. I mean I 120 00:07:39,436 --> 00:07:41,316 Speaker 1: just stood in front of the mirror and I was like, 121 00:07:41,876 --> 00:07:44,876 Speaker 1: what does thin Elma look like when she runs in place? 122 00:07:45,036 --> 00:07:47,556 Speaker 1: What does thin Elma look like when she flips her hair? 123 00:07:48,036 --> 00:07:50,316 Speaker 1: And I was just like flirting with myself. I mean, 124 00:07:50,356 --> 00:07:53,876 Speaker 1: I was just like playing with this woman. I looked 125 00:07:53,916 --> 00:07:56,356 Speaker 1: like a member of my family, Like I looked like 126 00:07:56,436 --> 00:07:59,796 Speaker 1: my sisters, and I had no concept that I could 127 00:07:59,836 --> 00:08:05,436 Speaker 1: look that way. And I also felt like this this 128 00:08:05,516 --> 00:08:09,996 Speaker 1: person I had felt like I was, deep down inside 129 00:08:11,076 --> 00:08:16,076 Speaker 1: was visually presenting itself to me in the mirror. This 130 00:08:16,196 --> 00:08:18,876 Speaker 1: narrative that every fat woman has a thin woman inside 131 00:08:18,876 --> 00:08:24,236 Speaker 1: of her. I felt like if I was her to 132 00:08:24,396 --> 00:08:29,876 Speaker 1: the world, they would let me be the person who 133 00:08:29,996 --> 00:08:34,276 Speaker 1: I wanted to be. What were those things that you 134 00:08:34,316 --> 00:08:37,436 Speaker 1: wanted to be that you felt the world wasn't allowing 135 00:08:37,476 --> 00:08:41,836 Speaker 1: you to be? It was free? I wanted to be free, 136 00:08:41,876 --> 00:08:46,076 Speaker 1: and I wanted to be loved. So you're looking at 137 00:08:46,276 --> 00:08:52,076 Speaker 1: fun House mayor Elena, and she's she seems free and lighthearted, 138 00:08:52,236 --> 00:08:54,836 Speaker 1: and she's she's reaching her dreams. Like that's what you 139 00:08:54,836 --> 00:08:58,116 Speaker 1: saw it? Yeah, I saw someone who every door would 140 00:08:58,156 --> 00:09:03,996 Speaker 1: open for Wow, And I thought, what if I became her? Like, 141 00:09:04,116 --> 00:09:08,076 Speaker 1: would my life be easier? Would it actually be different? 142 00:09:08,436 --> 00:09:12,716 Speaker 1: Would I get things I wanted if I did the 143 00:09:12,716 --> 00:09:14,956 Speaker 1: thing I've been told my whole life to do, which 144 00:09:15,036 --> 00:09:18,236 Speaker 1: is just lose weight. And so that was when I 145 00:09:18,276 --> 00:09:21,396 Speaker 1: became absolutely determined that I was going to take this 146 00:09:21,516 --> 00:09:25,556 Speaker 1: on and I was going to become her. What made 147 00:09:25,556 --> 00:09:28,196 Speaker 1: that moment different, like what led you to actually then 148 00:09:28,276 --> 00:09:33,596 Speaker 1: go and lose all this weight? I think it was 149 00:09:33,676 --> 00:09:38,116 Speaker 1: just absolute determination. It was like, I could not get this. 150 00:09:38,556 --> 00:09:40,636 Speaker 1: I would close my eyes and I would see that 151 00:09:40,676 --> 00:09:44,196 Speaker 1: woman and I could not get her out of my head. 152 00:09:44,556 --> 00:09:46,916 Speaker 1: And I thought, this is going to be the time 153 00:09:46,916 --> 00:09:50,276 Speaker 1: that I do it. You lost a lot of weight 154 00:09:50,436 --> 00:09:53,676 Speaker 1: in a very short amount of time. Yeah, what did 155 00:09:53,676 --> 00:09:55,996 Speaker 1: you have to put yourself through to get to that point? 156 00:09:57,556 --> 00:10:00,596 Speaker 1: You know? The program was, you know, you ate a 157 00:10:00,676 --> 00:10:03,516 Speaker 1: very minimal amount of food. You exercised, you know, at 158 00:10:03,596 --> 00:10:05,676 Speaker 1: least half an hour a day, you drank eight you 159 00:10:05,756 --> 00:10:09,436 Speaker 1: drink eight glasses of water. And then you also you 160 00:10:09,516 --> 00:10:14,196 Speaker 1: took fentermine and a couple other supplements. And the fentermine 161 00:10:14,196 --> 00:10:17,916 Speaker 1: it's basically similar to speed. It's an emphentamine and it 162 00:10:17,956 --> 00:10:20,996 Speaker 1: curbs your appetite. I was Mormon. I'd never even had 163 00:10:20,996 --> 00:10:22,916 Speaker 1: a cup of coffee, so I didn't know that you 164 00:10:22,956 --> 00:10:25,676 Speaker 1: could take something and it would make you act differently. 165 00:10:26,236 --> 00:10:28,716 Speaker 1: And at the time, I was also very religious, so 166 00:10:28,756 --> 00:10:31,356 Speaker 1: I was praying and I was asking for through the 167 00:10:31,396 --> 00:10:34,996 Speaker 1: grace of Jesus, Christ helped me change this aspect of myself. 168 00:10:35,116 --> 00:10:37,476 Speaker 1: And then I'd started taking speed, And so I have 169 00:10:37,636 --> 00:10:41,036 Speaker 1: journals from that time period that are hilarious because the journals, 170 00:10:41,076 --> 00:10:43,876 Speaker 1: I just think it's like the love of Christ is 171 00:10:43,916 --> 00:10:46,556 Speaker 1: helping me. So I'm like, you know, I've never I 172 00:10:46,596 --> 00:10:49,316 Speaker 1: feel like I'm totally possessed by the spirit of God. 173 00:10:49,516 --> 00:10:53,676 Speaker 1: Like I've never motivated, and I'm constantly cleaning. I've never 174 00:10:53,756 --> 00:10:57,156 Speaker 1: been this clean, you know, I'm just like, but in reality, 175 00:10:57,196 --> 00:11:00,436 Speaker 1: I was just like totally on speed. And when I 176 00:11:00,516 --> 00:11:03,236 Speaker 1: lost all of that weight, especially because I lost it 177 00:11:03,316 --> 00:11:07,156 Speaker 1: quite fast, my skin was so so loose. I mean 178 00:11:07,156 --> 00:11:09,756 Speaker 1: it was just like I could take it and pull 179 00:11:09,796 --> 00:11:12,276 Speaker 1: it like six to eight inches off of my body. 180 00:11:12,356 --> 00:11:14,836 Speaker 1: I mean I looked kind of like a melting candle. 181 00:11:15,476 --> 00:11:19,596 Speaker 1: I just had so much extra skin, and you know, 182 00:11:19,676 --> 00:11:24,156 Speaker 1: that was really disappointing actually, because I had thought that 183 00:11:24,236 --> 00:11:26,756 Speaker 1: I would get a do over, that I would finally 184 00:11:26,796 --> 00:11:30,316 Speaker 1: get that body that I had dreamed of, and instead 185 00:11:30,476 --> 00:11:33,996 Speaker 1: I was just covered in loose skin. And so I 186 00:11:34,116 --> 00:11:38,076 Speaker 1: had four surgeries to reconstruct my body. First I did 187 00:11:38,076 --> 00:11:40,876 Speaker 1: a tummy tuck, Then I did a circumferential body lift. 188 00:11:41,436 --> 00:11:45,076 Speaker 1: Then I did implants to fill in kind of the 189 00:11:45,116 --> 00:11:48,236 Speaker 1: empty pockets that my breasts had once been, and then 190 00:11:48,756 --> 00:11:51,556 Speaker 1: they cut up my legs. So now in my body 191 00:11:51,636 --> 00:11:53,796 Speaker 1: I have running up the side of my legs. I 192 00:11:53,836 --> 00:11:57,796 Speaker 1: have these like seams. I have a scar completely back 193 00:11:57,796 --> 00:12:01,116 Speaker 1: to front around my waist like a belt, like as 194 00:12:01,116 --> 00:12:02,556 Speaker 1: if you know, I was cut in half by a 195 00:12:02,636 --> 00:12:06,996 Speaker 1: magician or something, and the process of getting those surgeries, 196 00:12:07,436 --> 00:12:10,996 Speaker 1: I mean it is violent. Just a few days after 197 00:12:11,036 --> 00:12:13,836 Speaker 1: the surgery, I went to go pee and as I 198 00:12:13,876 --> 00:12:17,036 Speaker 1: went to sit down, I split the seam on the 199 00:12:17,076 --> 00:12:20,956 Speaker 1: inside of my crotch and it just gaping hole popped open. 200 00:12:21,996 --> 00:12:26,956 Speaker 1: And I called a friend and was like panicking, and 201 00:12:27,036 --> 00:12:30,636 Speaker 1: she amazingly was like, I'll be there in twenty minutes. 202 00:12:31,156 --> 00:12:34,556 Speaker 1: She showed up with a bottle of white wine and 203 00:12:34,636 --> 00:12:38,316 Speaker 1: valium and gave me a valium. And then the doctor 204 00:12:38,356 --> 00:12:40,956 Speaker 1: had said that you had to push gauze back in, 205 00:12:41,556 --> 00:12:44,316 Speaker 1: like you had to pack the wound with gauze, and 206 00:12:44,396 --> 00:12:48,476 Speaker 1: so she I spread my legs and she packed me up, 207 00:12:48,516 --> 00:12:52,716 Speaker 1: almost like you're putting the stuffing back into a teddy bear. Yeah, 208 00:12:52,756 --> 00:12:57,996 Speaker 1: it was. It was a tremendous, tremendous amount of effort 209 00:12:59,196 --> 00:13:05,236 Speaker 1: to almost try to return myself to a place that 210 00:13:05,156 --> 00:13:06,916 Speaker 1: that that I felt I needed to be in as 211 00:13:06,956 --> 00:13:11,756 Speaker 1: a woman in order to be sexually desirable by a man. 212 00:13:11,796 --> 00:13:15,116 Speaker 1: I mean, that was why I was doing it. I mean, 213 00:13:16,596 --> 00:13:19,436 Speaker 1: I guess you used the best word. The surgery was violent. 214 00:13:20,036 --> 00:13:23,156 Speaker 1: Was there ever a moment when you thought this shit's 215 00:13:23,196 --> 00:13:26,516 Speaker 1: not worth it? I mean, this is so not worth it. 216 00:13:26,596 --> 00:13:30,716 Speaker 1: Like I'm literally having doctors cut me into pieces in 217 00:13:30,836 --> 00:13:35,316 Speaker 1: order to make this happen. Yeah, I mean it's so funny. 218 00:13:35,596 --> 00:13:42,596 Speaker 1: Like I It's like I never stopped to think, you know, 219 00:13:42,716 --> 00:13:45,196 Speaker 1: you don't have to do any of this. You know, 220 00:13:45,276 --> 00:13:47,556 Speaker 1: you don't actually have to do any of this to 221 00:13:47,676 --> 00:13:52,076 Speaker 1: be loved. But it was like suddenly I got to 222 00:13:52,276 --> 00:13:54,996 Speaker 1: play this role I had studied and dreamed of my 223 00:13:55,036 --> 00:13:57,636 Speaker 1: whole life. So it was like a performance piece. I mean, 224 00:13:57,676 --> 00:14:01,356 Speaker 1: like I love getting to watch like how I could 225 00:14:01,396 --> 00:14:05,756 Speaker 1: affect men, you know, like because I'd never affected them before. 226 00:14:06,356 --> 00:14:10,076 Speaker 1: It was delightful. I mean I remember I was walking 227 00:14:10,116 --> 00:14:13,356 Speaker 1: down the street in New York and I passed like 228 00:14:13,396 --> 00:14:17,076 Speaker 1: this very beautiful woman and she kind of looked me 229 00:14:17,156 --> 00:14:21,156 Speaker 1: up and down and like nodded her head. And and 230 00:14:21,156 --> 00:14:23,636 Speaker 1: then I would pass you know, attractive men and attractive women, 231 00:14:23,636 --> 00:14:25,076 Speaker 1: and they would do this thing where they kind of 232 00:14:25,076 --> 00:14:26,676 Speaker 1: look at you a nod and I was like, oh 233 00:14:26,716 --> 00:14:30,396 Speaker 1: my god, there's like a secret club for the attractive 234 00:14:30,396 --> 00:14:33,676 Speaker 1: people and the nod is like their secret handshake, and 235 00:14:33,876 --> 00:14:36,356 Speaker 1: you know, I'm getting like a trial membership or something, 236 00:14:37,076 --> 00:14:40,276 Speaker 1: you know. And I remember being at a deli and 237 00:14:40,356 --> 00:14:42,716 Speaker 1: I had put you know, the items I was planning 238 00:14:42,716 --> 00:14:46,596 Speaker 1: on buying up on the counter and I didn't have 239 00:14:47,436 --> 00:14:49,716 Speaker 1: enough money. I realized, you know, it's like twenty dollars. 240 00:14:49,796 --> 00:14:51,476 Speaker 1: I looked at my pocket, I only had ten. So 241 00:14:51,516 --> 00:14:53,556 Speaker 1: I started kind of looking at the items and I 242 00:14:53,596 --> 00:14:56,876 Speaker 1: was like pulling some down and then the deli guy 243 00:14:56,956 --> 00:14:59,436 Speaker 1: just like shrugged his head and he was like, just 244 00:14:59,476 --> 00:15:01,996 Speaker 1: take it. And I was like what and he was like, 245 00:15:02,236 --> 00:15:04,156 Speaker 1: take it. You're fine, and then he kind of smiled 246 00:15:04,156 --> 00:15:06,556 Speaker 1: at me, like you know, you're a pretty girl. Take it. 247 00:15:06,916 --> 00:15:09,716 Speaker 1: And so I walked out and I was like, wait, 248 00:15:09,916 --> 00:15:13,516 Speaker 1: beautiful people get free stuff, Like how is this real? 249 00:15:13,716 --> 00:15:16,076 Speaker 1: And then I just I wanted to know if that 250 00:15:16,156 --> 00:15:19,356 Speaker 1: was a thing. So I started going to delis and 251 00:15:19,436 --> 00:15:22,676 Speaker 1: I would do like I would do a bit where 252 00:15:22,716 --> 00:15:24,916 Speaker 1: I would put the stuff up, they would, you know, 253 00:15:24,996 --> 00:15:27,036 Speaker 1: give me the price, and I would pretend that I 254 00:15:27,076 --> 00:15:29,996 Speaker 1: didn't have enough money and they would say like, you're good, 255 00:15:30,236 --> 00:15:33,516 Speaker 1: take it. And that was to me. I mean, I 256 00:15:33,596 --> 00:15:36,796 Speaker 1: was like this can't be real, Like you can't get 257 00:15:36,836 --> 00:15:40,876 Speaker 1: this much from just looking differently. And that's where it 258 00:15:40,876 --> 00:15:44,316 Speaker 1: started to shift from like, oh my god, this is 259 00:15:44,356 --> 00:15:48,556 Speaker 1: so fun to feeling a little bit sad or jaded, 260 00:15:48,596 --> 00:15:51,916 Speaker 1: where I was like this is so unfair, like the 261 00:15:52,036 --> 00:15:55,116 Speaker 1: person I was when I was fat, Like I was 262 00:15:55,556 --> 00:16:00,916 Speaker 1: so kind, I think partly because I couldn't just ride 263 00:16:00,956 --> 00:16:04,356 Speaker 1: by on good looks. I was always like trying to 264 00:16:04,396 --> 00:16:08,276 Speaker 1: be helpful, trying to be loving, you know, baking people 265 00:16:08,316 --> 00:16:11,596 Speaker 1: cookies or or whatever, like doing things for people, a 266 00:16:11,596 --> 00:16:15,196 Speaker 1: lot of like acts of service to be a part 267 00:16:15,236 --> 00:16:17,836 Speaker 1: of people's life. And I really do feel like that 268 00:16:17,876 --> 00:16:22,156 Speaker 1: woman deserved the love and attention that this sudden, like 269 00:16:22,316 --> 00:16:26,076 Speaker 1: thin version of me just automatically got without doing anything. 270 00:16:27,876 --> 00:16:30,436 Speaker 1: She realized that new Elma, as she was beginning to 271 00:16:30,476 --> 00:16:34,196 Speaker 1: see herself, knew Elma could pretty much get anything she wanted, 272 00:16:34,596 --> 00:16:38,636 Speaker 1: including boyfriends, something old Elna had only dreamed of. On 273 00:16:38,636 --> 00:16:41,236 Speaker 1: one particular date, knew Ellena and a guy were eating 274 00:16:41,236 --> 00:16:44,756 Speaker 1: frozen yogurt, chatting about calories. I think, you know this 275 00:16:44,836 --> 00:16:48,396 Speaker 1: is gonna sound mean, but I just can't tolerate fat people. 276 00:16:49,516 --> 00:16:52,636 Speaker 1: And I just remember the word choice, like tolerate, you know, 277 00:16:52,716 --> 00:16:58,356 Speaker 1: like people can't tolerate lactose, but like tolerate. And I, 278 00:16:58,876 --> 00:17:02,476 Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to say something, but I also 279 00:17:02,916 --> 00:17:05,796 Speaker 1: wanted to be in the room, Like I wanted to 280 00:17:05,836 --> 00:17:08,716 Speaker 1: be there, and I wanted to be chosen by him, 281 00:17:08,756 --> 00:17:11,476 Speaker 1: and I wanted to just be the pretty girl who 282 00:17:11,516 --> 00:17:14,876 Speaker 1: got the guy. And so I like took his hand 283 00:17:14,916 --> 00:17:18,396 Speaker 1: and I was like, you know, I think a lot 284 00:17:18,396 --> 00:17:23,316 Speaker 1: of people, you know, it's hard for them because you know, 285 00:17:24,236 --> 00:17:26,636 Speaker 1: they're judged based on their appearance and they might actually 286 00:17:26,716 --> 00:17:29,636 Speaker 1: be very good people deep down, and you're not giving 287 00:17:29,956 --> 00:17:32,516 Speaker 1: yourself a chance to see that, you know, not that 288 00:17:32,556 --> 00:17:35,956 Speaker 1: I would know anything about it, you know. Yeah, And 289 00:17:36,076 --> 00:17:40,436 Speaker 1: I regret not actually just standing up and saying what 290 00:17:40,516 --> 00:17:43,596 Speaker 1: I really thought, but at the time, I just I 291 00:17:43,676 --> 00:17:46,276 Speaker 1: didn't want to get kicked out of the club. Is 292 00:17:46,276 --> 00:17:49,676 Speaker 1: that the moment you realized, oh, no, I think knew 293 00:17:49,716 --> 00:17:54,196 Speaker 1: Elna might be a worse person than old Elnah. Definitely, definitely, 294 00:17:54,276 --> 00:18:01,476 Speaker 1: because it was this moment where I I was like, oh, 295 00:18:01,516 --> 00:18:06,276 Speaker 1: this is the trade off, right, Like you can get 296 00:18:06,316 --> 00:18:10,236 Speaker 1: what you want, but you have to give up other 297 00:18:10,316 --> 00:18:13,156 Speaker 1: parts of yourself and how bad do you want this? 298 00:18:14,196 --> 00:18:18,756 Speaker 1: And you know old Elena had been actually like I 299 00:18:18,876 --> 00:18:21,916 Speaker 1: had been this like larger than life person. I mean 300 00:18:21,996 --> 00:18:26,796 Speaker 1: I was like audacious and bold and like I was 301 00:18:27,756 --> 00:18:31,556 Speaker 1: funny and like in some ways, the bigness of my 302 00:18:31,636 --> 00:18:35,476 Speaker 1: body allowed for the bigness of my personality. Knew, Elma, 303 00:18:36,036 --> 00:18:40,236 Speaker 1: I was embarrassed of this person I used to be, like. 304 00:18:40,316 --> 00:18:45,516 Speaker 1: I wanted to erase her from the earth. Yeah, it's 305 00:18:45,516 --> 00:18:48,596 Speaker 1: interesting because the version of thin Elna you saw in 306 00:18:48,636 --> 00:18:53,796 Speaker 1: the fun House mirror that day relied on old illness personality, 307 00:18:53,996 --> 00:18:56,596 Speaker 1: like old Elena's values, right, you saw that freedom in 308 00:18:56,636 --> 00:19:00,636 Speaker 1: her because she still had that mindset that you cherished 309 00:19:00,676 --> 00:19:05,156 Speaker 1: about yourself and childhood, right like outspokenness, irreverence, bold, right, 310 00:19:05,236 --> 00:19:07,676 Speaker 1: willing to speak up. And I guess, yeah, you just 311 00:19:07,716 --> 00:19:09,636 Speaker 1: didn't expect, you you might lose that along the way, 312 00:19:09,716 --> 00:19:12,716 Speaker 1: or that there would be tradeoffs involved. Totally. Yeah, that 313 00:19:13,036 --> 00:19:19,356 Speaker 1: when you change, you know, you you make these compromises 314 00:19:19,956 --> 00:19:24,316 Speaker 1: along the way that you end up losing the core 315 00:19:24,436 --> 00:19:32,476 Speaker 1: thing that you were changing for. We'll be back in 316 00:19:32,476 --> 00:19:46,196 Speaker 1: a moment with a slight change of plans. It took 317 00:19:46,236 --> 00:19:49,756 Speaker 1: Elma Baker four major surgeries and countless diet pills to 318 00:19:49,876 --> 00:19:52,596 Speaker 1: transform herself into the thin woman she saw in the 319 00:19:52,596 --> 00:19:55,876 Speaker 1: fun house mirror back when she was twenty two. By 320 00:19:55,876 --> 00:19:58,356 Speaker 1: the time she was in her thirties, Ellena got married 321 00:19:58,396 --> 00:20:00,676 Speaker 1: and was working as a producer at the radio show 322 00:20:00,916 --> 00:20:03,956 Speaker 1: This American Life, and she decided to do a story 323 00:20:04,036 --> 00:20:07,996 Speaker 1: about her transformation from Old Elna to New Elna. What 324 00:20:08,076 --> 00:20:11,636 Speaker 1: was it like writing this deeply personal story about yourself 325 00:20:11,636 --> 00:20:14,796 Speaker 1: and sharing it with the world. What what about that 326 00:20:14,876 --> 00:20:21,796 Speaker 1: process made you think about yourself differently? I remember saying 327 00:20:21,836 --> 00:20:25,156 Speaker 1: to myself, like, if no one were to read or 328 00:20:25,276 --> 00:20:28,556 Speaker 1: hear or see this, what would I actually say? And 329 00:20:28,636 --> 00:20:31,516 Speaker 1: so that's why in the story I admitted to the 330 00:20:31,556 --> 00:20:34,956 Speaker 1: fact that even though I had lost eight years earlier, 331 00:20:35,036 --> 00:20:39,556 Speaker 1: in order to hold on to the thinness and never 332 00:20:39,596 --> 00:20:42,236 Speaker 1: go back, I had had to basically stay on diet 333 00:20:42,236 --> 00:20:45,556 Speaker 1: pills for fourteen years. Sorry, by diet By diet pills, 334 00:20:45,556 --> 00:20:48,036 Speaker 1: do you means speed yeah, fentermin Yeah, it was on 335 00:20:48,156 --> 00:20:50,956 Speaker 1: fendermine again. And so I, you know, I confessed that. 336 00:20:51,236 --> 00:20:53,116 Speaker 1: And there was also a section of the story where 337 00:20:53,116 --> 00:20:56,276 Speaker 1: I was interviewing my husband and he admitted that he 338 00:20:56,316 --> 00:20:59,556 Speaker 1: wouldn't have loved me or been attracted to me. I 339 00:20:59,556 --> 00:21:01,156 Speaker 1: can't remember exactly what he said. I think it was 340 00:21:01,236 --> 00:21:03,676 Speaker 1: he would never have dated me if I was fat, 341 00:21:04,556 --> 00:21:08,796 Speaker 1: and I secretly knew that deep down, but to have 342 00:21:08,876 --> 00:21:14,636 Speaker 1: it directly affirmed was also just really really painful, really 343 00:21:14,636 --> 00:21:19,796 Speaker 1: really shocking. And so the piece itself. Once that piece aired, 344 00:21:21,356 --> 00:21:26,476 Speaker 1: I had been under such a deadline to finish it 345 00:21:26,516 --> 00:21:28,676 Speaker 1: and put it out in the world that I hadn't 346 00:21:28,676 --> 00:21:31,396 Speaker 1: really stopped to think, like what am I saying about 347 00:21:31,396 --> 00:21:34,276 Speaker 1: myself out loud? I felt like it was important and 348 00:21:34,316 --> 00:21:37,556 Speaker 1: that's why I did it. But Yeah, after that piece 349 00:21:37,596 --> 00:21:41,156 Speaker 1: came out, I felt like I felt a little like 350 00:21:41,196 --> 00:21:43,516 Speaker 1: I showed I had shown my ass to the world. 351 00:21:43,916 --> 00:21:46,716 Speaker 1: Instead of feeling proud, I was a little bit mortified. 352 00:21:46,996 --> 00:21:50,436 Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, no, everyone knows now that I 353 00:21:50,476 --> 00:21:54,076 Speaker 1: have an addiction to diet pills. You know they also 354 00:21:54,156 --> 00:21:58,436 Speaker 1: know that, um, you know that I have a value 355 00:21:58,436 --> 00:22:02,876 Speaker 1: system that's completely out of whack, and you know that 356 00:22:02,996 --> 00:22:06,276 Speaker 1: this marriage that I have is also kind of there's 357 00:22:06,316 --> 00:22:09,476 Speaker 1: something really false or fake about it? Like what do you? 358 00:22:10,076 --> 00:22:14,676 Speaker 1: How do you unsee these things? Because I had, unintentionally, 359 00:22:14,956 --> 00:22:21,676 Speaker 1: by being so honest, I had revealed a secret that 360 00:22:21,756 --> 00:22:25,796 Speaker 1: I had been trying to keep from myself. What was 361 00:22:25,796 --> 00:22:30,276 Speaker 1: that secret? Just that I was really unhappy and that 362 00:22:30,396 --> 00:22:33,596 Speaker 1: I was that this was all kind of a lie, 363 00:22:34,916 --> 00:22:37,876 Speaker 1: you know, and if you just keep going, you just 364 00:22:37,956 --> 00:22:40,316 Speaker 1: keep going, keep going, don't stop, don't think, don't think, 365 00:22:40,356 --> 00:22:46,196 Speaker 1: don't think, you can outrun all of that. But unfortunately 366 00:22:46,236 --> 00:22:51,356 Speaker 1: I had like put a hard stop and I basically said, like, look, 367 00:22:52,716 --> 00:22:56,436 Speaker 1: you can't look away here it is. It's so interesting 368 00:22:56,436 --> 00:22:59,076 Speaker 1: how a piece of art can sometimes do that right 369 00:22:59,116 --> 00:23:03,156 Speaker 1: where for the first time, you're you're reading about this 370 00:23:03,236 --> 00:23:06,796 Speaker 1: person Elna from with the third person perspective in mind, 371 00:23:07,236 --> 00:23:11,796 Speaker 1: and suddenly things become really clear or salient that when 372 00:23:11,796 --> 00:23:14,036 Speaker 1: you had the first person perspective and we're running it 373 00:23:14,076 --> 00:23:19,316 Speaker 1: five hundred miles per hour, you just never had noticed. Yeah, 374 00:23:19,356 --> 00:23:23,756 Speaker 1: I definitely felt like I wasn't intending to make something 375 00:23:25,596 --> 00:23:30,636 Speaker 1: that would be this inconvenient. It was a real wake 376 00:23:30,716 --> 00:23:33,996 Speaker 1: up call for me. So basically I felt like, Okay, 377 00:23:34,116 --> 00:23:40,036 Speaker 1: so I stood on a podium basically and announced to 378 00:23:40,076 --> 00:23:44,116 Speaker 1: the world what my problem was, and now I can't 379 00:23:45,356 --> 00:23:48,716 Speaker 1: not see it and I can't go back like I 380 00:23:48,756 --> 00:23:52,556 Speaker 1: had forced my own hand. Basically, around this time, Ellena 381 00:23:52,636 --> 00:23:54,516 Speaker 1: ran out of diet pills and couldn't find a way 382 00:23:54,516 --> 00:23:57,316 Speaker 1: to get them anymore, so she went looking for an alternative. 383 00:23:57,596 --> 00:23:58,836 Speaker 1: And so I was like, Okay, I'm gonna go to 384 00:23:58,836 --> 00:24:01,476 Speaker 1: a therapist. I'll pretend I have ADHD and I'll just 385 00:24:01,516 --> 00:24:04,636 Speaker 1: get at her all. And so I'd never been to 386 00:24:04,716 --> 00:24:07,916 Speaker 1: therapy in my life ever, and I decided I would 387 00:24:07,956 --> 00:24:11,516 Speaker 1: go mainly just to get adderall. So I go to 388 00:24:11,556 --> 00:24:14,196 Speaker 1: this first therapy session and I'm, you know, pretending that 389 00:24:14,276 --> 00:24:17,596 Speaker 1: I have all the symptoms of someone with ADHD in 390 00:24:17,676 --> 00:24:20,516 Speaker 1: order to get this adderall. But he kept asking these 391 00:24:20,676 --> 00:24:24,636 Speaker 1: these pretty pointed personal questions that we're pushing me to 392 00:24:24,716 --> 00:24:28,756 Speaker 1: reflect on, like, Okay, actually, what is really going on 393 00:24:28,836 --> 00:24:33,716 Speaker 1: with me? And I started to see that therapy was 394 00:24:33,756 --> 00:24:36,556 Speaker 1: a potential option to actually get to the root of 395 00:24:36,596 --> 00:24:40,276 Speaker 1: the problem. And I knew this would be much harder. 396 00:24:40,316 --> 00:24:42,636 Speaker 1: This would be the hard way versus the easy way, 397 00:24:42,636 --> 00:24:44,796 Speaker 1: which would just be to take pills, which is basically 398 00:24:44,796 --> 00:24:46,836 Speaker 1: what I've been doing for I think at that point, 399 00:24:46,876 --> 00:24:50,316 Speaker 1: like over fourteen years of my life. But I also 400 00:24:50,396 --> 00:24:54,356 Speaker 1: knew that like that wasn't sustainable. I didn't want to 401 00:24:54,356 --> 00:24:57,676 Speaker 1: be on diet pills as an eighty year old woman, 402 00:24:57,916 --> 00:25:02,116 Speaker 1: you know, that's why I decided that I would actually 403 00:25:02,356 --> 00:25:05,636 Speaker 1: try to look at my mental health. I mean, I've 404 00:25:05,636 --> 00:25:07,596 Speaker 1: read at this point, I think one hundred and fifty 405 00:25:07,596 --> 00:25:11,356 Speaker 1: self help books. I've been to group therapy. I've been 406 00:25:11,396 --> 00:25:14,436 Speaker 1: to two different therapists. I am, you know, I meditate, 407 00:25:14,516 --> 00:25:17,636 Speaker 1: I work with a monk, I work with shaman's, I've 408 00:25:17,676 --> 00:25:23,636 Speaker 1: done psychedelic therapy. Like, I have really tried to understand 409 00:25:24,636 --> 00:25:29,676 Speaker 1: the root of this this behavior and and I began 410 00:25:29,716 --> 00:25:32,916 Speaker 1: to see that there was a different way to do this, 411 00:25:33,116 --> 00:25:36,556 Speaker 1: and that was like by being in touch with my feelings. 412 00:25:37,156 --> 00:25:40,956 Speaker 1: And you know, I would say the last several years 413 00:25:40,956 --> 00:25:43,796 Speaker 1: of my life have been very much dedicated to finally 414 00:25:43,876 --> 00:25:47,516 Speaker 1: learning how to feel and that it's okay to feel. 415 00:25:50,356 --> 00:25:56,916 Speaker 1: You seem to be just relentlessly committed to changing yourself. Right, 416 00:25:56,956 --> 00:26:01,276 Speaker 1: So maybe that your twenties were spent on physical and 417 00:26:01,476 --> 00:26:05,716 Speaker 1: thirties are spent on mental. Do you see similarities between 418 00:26:05,756 --> 00:26:08,716 Speaker 1: the two And do you ever think at one point 419 00:26:08,716 --> 00:26:12,996 Speaker 1: do I trying to change and just be? I will say, 420 00:26:13,076 --> 00:26:17,956 Speaker 1: like my neurosis is fixing myself. And I will say 421 00:26:17,996 --> 00:26:20,996 Speaker 1: that for the first time in my life, for a 422 00:26:21,036 --> 00:26:25,276 Speaker 1: good four month period this year, I went on sabbatical. 423 00:26:25,436 --> 00:26:29,316 Speaker 1: I was living in the woods and allowing myself to 424 00:26:29,396 --> 00:26:32,436 Speaker 1: like do things I did when I was a little kid, 425 00:26:32,716 --> 00:26:37,996 Speaker 1: you know, like walk barefoot and grass, climb trees, play. 426 00:26:39,276 --> 00:26:44,676 Speaker 1: I think that that actually brought out a side or 427 00:26:44,716 --> 00:26:48,556 Speaker 1: a person in me. That is what I thought all 428 00:26:48,596 --> 00:26:52,436 Speaker 1: the hard work would bring out. It just brought out 429 00:26:52,476 --> 00:26:57,676 Speaker 1: like joy, and it brought out playfulness. I thought that 430 00:26:57,716 --> 00:27:02,316 Speaker 1: the way to bring that person into the world was 431 00:27:02,436 --> 00:27:06,556 Speaker 1: to criticize and pick at myself enough that I would 432 00:27:06,796 --> 00:27:10,636 Speaker 1: be able to be perfect and then I could be free. 433 00:27:11,436 --> 00:27:15,036 Speaker 1: And it turns out that like the level at which 434 00:27:15,036 --> 00:27:20,196 Speaker 1: I was picking myself apart and critiquing myself made it 435 00:27:20,276 --> 00:27:23,796 Speaker 1: as if like there was no fertile soil within me 436 00:27:24,116 --> 00:27:27,876 Speaker 1: for anything to grow. I was poisoning myself on a 437 00:27:27,956 --> 00:27:34,636 Speaker 1: daily basis. And once I stopped doing that, then just 438 00:27:34,676 --> 00:27:40,276 Speaker 1: sort of naturally, I started to blossom and feel silly 439 00:27:40,396 --> 00:27:44,436 Speaker 1: and free and like joy. You've talked a lot about 440 00:27:44,436 --> 00:27:47,836 Speaker 1: old Elna and new Elna, and I'm wondering who you 441 00:27:47,876 --> 00:27:54,556 Speaker 1: are today. I mean, I feel like my hope is 442 00:27:56,116 --> 00:28:00,316 Speaker 1: I burned it to the ground enough, you know, And 443 00:28:00,356 --> 00:28:04,956 Speaker 1: so the difference now is that like I don't care 444 00:28:05,316 --> 00:28:09,716 Speaker 1: what you see. I care if I'm happy. I'm letting 445 00:28:09,756 --> 00:28:16,396 Speaker 1: my intuition, I'm letting my body my feelings, like I'm 446 00:28:16,476 --> 00:28:20,516 Speaker 1: letting that guide me in terms of like this is 447 00:28:20,596 --> 00:28:23,156 Speaker 1: who I am and what I want, and I no 448 00:28:23,196 --> 00:28:26,276 Speaker 1: longer care what you're telling me is right and wrong, 449 00:28:26,396 --> 00:28:29,636 Speaker 1: because when I was living based on what the world 450 00:28:29,676 --> 00:28:35,796 Speaker 1: told me was right and wrong, I was committing acts 451 00:28:35,796 --> 00:28:39,196 Speaker 1: of violence against myself on a daily basis to fit 452 00:28:39,276 --> 00:28:43,676 Speaker 1: into a system that was broken and messed up and 453 00:28:43,796 --> 00:28:48,876 Speaker 1: never really created to actually benefit me. I think one 454 00:28:48,996 --> 00:28:54,276 Speaker 1: potential lesson from your story for me is the reminder 455 00:28:54,356 --> 00:28:57,756 Speaker 1: that when we do change one thing about ourselves, that 456 00:28:57,836 --> 00:29:01,196 Speaker 1: change doesn't exist in a vacuum. Sometimes we want it to, 457 00:29:01,756 --> 00:29:06,356 Speaker 1: but it can lead to so many other unexpected changes 458 00:29:06,356 --> 00:29:10,436 Speaker 1: that we just can't predict, and we can control it either, right, 459 00:29:10,476 --> 00:29:13,196 Speaker 1: Like there's this fallout, there are these ripple effects that 460 00:29:13,876 --> 00:29:16,476 Speaker 1: basically spiral out of our control after we've made that 461 00:29:16,556 --> 00:29:20,276 Speaker 1: first intentional effort to change something. Do you have any 462 00:29:20,356 --> 00:29:27,116 Speaker 1: reflections on that? Yeah, I think like when I saw 463 00:29:27,196 --> 00:29:30,916 Speaker 1: that woman in the mirror and I wanted to become her, 464 00:29:30,956 --> 00:29:33,556 Speaker 1: and I made a commitment that I would do anything 465 00:29:33,596 --> 00:29:39,996 Speaker 1: it took to become her. I did not know what 466 00:29:40,036 --> 00:29:42,636 Speaker 1: I was signing up for, you know. I thought I 467 00:29:42,676 --> 00:29:47,316 Speaker 1: would just get like a like almost like a wish, 468 00:29:47,436 --> 00:29:49,516 Speaker 1: like I would get to step through the mirror, and 469 00:29:49,556 --> 00:29:52,036 Speaker 1: I would walk out the other side as her. I 470 00:29:52,076 --> 00:29:55,156 Speaker 1: would be the same person I'd always been. I would 471 00:29:55,676 --> 00:30:00,796 Speaker 1: continue to act the way I'd always acted, and and 472 00:30:00,876 --> 00:30:03,236 Speaker 1: I would forever get to be her. I wouldn't have 473 00:30:03,316 --> 00:30:05,716 Speaker 1: to like diet every day for the rest of my 474 00:30:05,756 --> 00:30:10,996 Speaker 1: life to stay her, and I wouldn't have to change 475 00:30:11,036 --> 00:30:19,276 Speaker 1: my personality to get the things that she got. It's 476 00:30:19,276 --> 00:30:21,996 Speaker 1: sort of like that nursery rhyme. There was an old 477 00:30:22,036 --> 00:30:23,956 Speaker 1: woman who swallowed a fly. I don't know why she 478 00:30:24,036 --> 00:30:27,236 Speaker 1: swallowed a fly. Then she swallowed the spider to get 479 00:30:27,236 --> 00:30:29,956 Speaker 1: the fly that you know will insider, and then she 480 00:30:30,036 --> 00:30:34,356 Speaker 1: keeps swallowing new things like that. That's kind of what 481 00:30:34,556 --> 00:30:38,476 Speaker 1: change brought into my life. It just brought like new 482 00:30:38,516 --> 00:30:41,836 Speaker 1: things that I had to solve or fix because I 483 00:30:41,916 --> 00:30:47,676 Speaker 1: became addicted to the need that something had to change 484 00:30:47,796 --> 00:30:51,396 Speaker 1: in order for me to be happy, and so I 485 00:30:51,476 --> 00:30:54,676 Speaker 1: never gave myself any moment to be or relax or 486 00:30:54,716 --> 00:30:59,556 Speaker 1: appreciate it because there was more to do, and then 487 00:30:59,596 --> 00:31:02,036 Speaker 1: I can finally sit down and relax and appreciate it. 488 00:31:02,476 --> 00:31:06,516 Speaker 1: And I think, like, if I hadn't have taken a pause, 489 00:31:06,716 --> 00:31:08,916 Speaker 1: I think I probably would have done that to my deathbed, 490 00:31:09,156 --> 00:31:12,196 Speaker 1: and I would have just missed my whole life. I 491 00:31:12,236 --> 00:31:17,036 Speaker 1: wonder if this experience has made you more cautious about 492 00:31:17,116 --> 00:31:20,356 Speaker 1: trying to change other parts of yourself because you've now 493 00:31:20,476 --> 00:31:25,836 Speaker 1: seen how interconnected things are, right, and so yeah, uh, 494 00:31:26,036 --> 00:31:29,836 Speaker 1: you know I wish I wish it had more cautious. 495 00:31:31,076 --> 00:31:33,076 Speaker 1: You know, you need to. I just I mean I 496 00:31:33,156 --> 00:31:36,556 Speaker 1: would in fact it had. I think, if anything, it 497 00:31:36,596 --> 00:31:41,036 Speaker 1: made me addicted to changing right because you know, this 498 00:31:41,036 --> 00:31:43,916 Speaker 1: thing had been impossible for me. I thought, there's no 499 00:31:43,996 --> 00:31:47,196 Speaker 1: way I'll ever not be fat. And then when I 500 00:31:47,236 --> 00:31:49,596 Speaker 1: took it on and I learned that I could change it, 501 00:31:50,316 --> 00:31:54,796 Speaker 1: I was like, well, I can fix anything. Then if 502 00:31:54,836 --> 00:31:58,316 Speaker 1: if anything's wrong, I can apply like my full self 503 00:31:58,356 --> 00:32:02,076 Speaker 1: to it and focus and change it. And you know 504 00:32:02,436 --> 00:32:07,116 Speaker 1: that's far more true for something like weight, because there 505 00:32:07,236 --> 00:32:10,476 Speaker 1: is like a science to it. It's how reason calories out, 506 00:32:11,436 --> 00:32:15,156 Speaker 1: and it's not as true to something like I'm going 507 00:32:15,236 --> 00:32:18,276 Speaker 1: to fix my mental health like it. It's just not 508 00:32:18,756 --> 00:32:21,956 Speaker 1: as fixable or you know, other aspects of my life, 509 00:32:21,996 --> 00:32:25,636 Speaker 1: whether it's career, you know, whether it's romance where there's 510 00:32:25,676 --> 00:32:29,596 Speaker 1: other people involved, where you don't have control. I can't 511 00:32:29,636 --> 00:32:33,876 Speaker 1: apply the same strategy, and yet I'm behaving as though 512 00:32:33,916 --> 00:32:36,636 Speaker 1: I can, which is in and of itself like a 513 00:32:36,716 --> 00:32:42,876 Speaker 1: form of insanity. Apologies for the selent metic question, but 514 00:32:42,996 --> 00:32:47,916 Speaker 1: I'm interested in how your relationship with change has changed. 515 00:32:48,996 --> 00:32:56,916 Speaker 1: M I am someone who has totally transformed in this lifetime, 516 00:32:57,036 --> 00:33:01,636 Speaker 1: and I have lived multiple Like it's like I've been 517 00:33:01,636 --> 00:33:07,876 Speaker 1: reincarnated a few times in this one life, and I 518 00:33:07,916 --> 00:33:15,236 Speaker 1: appreciate everything that each of these huge transformations has given me, 519 00:33:15,836 --> 00:33:20,676 Speaker 1: Like each one of them has given me a lifetime 520 00:33:20,716 --> 00:33:27,116 Speaker 1: worth of lessons, and each one of them came from 521 00:33:27,116 --> 00:33:31,636 Speaker 1: a really true, deep need to change. It's just that like, 522 00:33:33,356 --> 00:33:37,476 Speaker 1: you won't get what you wanted. In fact, if anything like, 523 00:33:37,556 --> 00:33:41,676 Speaker 1: it'll be so much harder, and you will lose so much, 524 00:33:42,036 --> 00:33:46,956 Speaker 1: and you will the stability you had, but like you 525 00:33:46,996 --> 00:34:12,396 Speaker 1: will grow, and for me, that ultimately is worth it. Hey, 526 00:34:12,436 --> 00:34:15,556 Speaker 1: thanks for listening. If you're enjoying a slight change of plans, 527 00:34:15,676 --> 00:34:18,516 Speaker 1: please make sure to subscribe, rate, and share the show. 528 00:34:18,516 --> 00:34:21,236 Speaker 1: With friends and join me next week. When I talk 529 00:34:21,276 --> 00:34:23,236 Speaker 1: with the man in his early thirties who's in the 530 00:34:23,276 --> 00:34:27,036 Speaker 1: middle of treatment for stage four bone cancer, I felt 531 00:34:27,036 --> 00:34:29,436 Speaker 1: like I was doing pretty much everything in my power 532 00:34:29,476 --> 00:34:36,876 Speaker 1: to not get cancer, and yet here I am. It 533 00:34:36,916 --> 00:34:41,996 Speaker 1: really makes you understand that you are not in control, 534 00:34:43,156 --> 00:34:46,756 Speaker 1: and it's a little refreshing in a way, like you 535 00:34:46,796 --> 00:34:51,236 Speaker 1: can sort of release the grip on the steering wheel 536 00:34:51,236 --> 00:34:54,276 Speaker 1: a little bit and that kind of easiest tension throughout 537 00:34:54,796 --> 00:35:07,316 Speaker 1: your entire body. A Slight Change of Plans is created 538 00:35:07,356 --> 00:35:10,956 Speaker 1: an executive produced by me My Shunker. Big thanks to 539 00:35:10,956 --> 00:35:15,756 Speaker 1: everyone at Pushkin Industries, including our producer Mola Board, associate 540 00:35:15,796 --> 00:35:20,276 Speaker 1: producers David Jaw and Julia Goodman, executive producers Mia Lavelle 541 00:35:20,276 --> 00:35:24,556 Speaker 1: and Justine Lange, senior editor Jan Guera, and sound design 542 00:35:24,596 --> 00:35:29,116 Speaker 1: and mixed engineers Ben Talliday and Jason Gambrel. Thanks also 543 00:35:29,196 --> 00:35:31,836 Speaker 1: to Louis Gara who wrote our theme song, and Ginger 544 00:35:31,876 --> 00:35:36,196 Speaker 1: Smith who helped arrange the vocals, incidental music from Epidemic Sound, 545 00:35:36,876 --> 00:35:39,996 Speaker 1: and of course a very special thanks to Jimmy Lee. 546 00:35:40,596 --> 00:35:43,156 Speaker 1: You can follow A Slight Change of Plans on Instagram 547 00:35:43,196 --> 00:35:44,516 Speaker 1: at doctor Maya Schunker