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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Stats Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is the one and only Harold Bronson,

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Speaker 1: one of the original Rhino Brothers, and he is the

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Speaker 1: man who started the Rhino Records label. Harold, good to

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Speaker 1: have you, happy to be here? Okay, So what do

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Speaker 1: we know? You know, we're parking our cars, and I say, hey,

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Speaker 1: do you come here to Hollywood often? And then you

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Speaker 1: merely start going into rock history? So tell me what

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Speaker 1: was going on here? Okay? Well, first of all, um,

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Speaker 1: when I was a rock rider in the nineties seventies,

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Speaker 1: I used to come here quite a bit because the

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Speaker 1: record companies were here except for Warner Brothers in Burbank

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Speaker 1: and Universal and Universal City. And then, uh, Rolling Stone

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Speaker 1: was on Sunset Boulevard at the l A office. Where

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Speaker 1: was Where were they on Sunset Boulevard? I think it's

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Speaker 1: I think the cross street was Seward. Okay, outside of

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Speaker 1: the street didn't looked like a building that Raymond Chandler,

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Speaker 1: you know, might have been in. Well, how much of

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Speaker 1: a presence did they have in Los Angeles? Rolling Stone? Um, well,

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Speaker 1: initially very little. And then at this point, Um, Judy Sims,

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Speaker 1: who had been a publicist at Warner Brothers Records. Then

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Speaker 1: she became the l A editor and she's the one

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Speaker 1: who found the space. But anyway, as we were walking in, UM,

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Speaker 1: I remarked that, um, on this street, at sixteen oh

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Speaker 1: a Cosmo Street, there used to be a club called

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Speaker 1: beato Letos, which was really significant. Um. I think it

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Speaker 1: was to sixty eight. But uh you heard a lot

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Speaker 1: about it because I love played there a lot. But

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Speaker 1: also the doors, um, the seeds, the iron butterfly. And

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Speaker 1: according to Arthur Lee, if my memory is correct, that's

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Speaker 1: where the Rolling Stones came in and saw them do

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Speaker 1: a long song which is fired them too when they

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Speaker 1: recorded Aftermath to do uh um coming home for the

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Speaker 1: lengthy one. Wow. Now did you go there yourself? I

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Speaker 1: was a little bit too young, A little bit too young.

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Speaker 1: Now were you too young to go to Pandora's Box? Yes? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So when did you start going to shows? Okay? So

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Westchester, which is the community, the

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Speaker 1: l A community by the Los Angeles International. And let's

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Speaker 1: be clear, because I got in trouble once the you know,

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Speaker 1: I said somebody, I went to a record I went

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Speaker 1: to a ski shop in Westchester, they said they have them,

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Speaker 1: and I was this person was from Los Angeles. We're

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Speaker 1: not talking about Westchester County outside of New York. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about a town a burg here in Los Angeles, right,

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Speaker 1: Which is interesting is yeah, if I didn't clarify it,

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Speaker 1: when I would say Westchester, most people would think New York, right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: But anyway, it was a little bit too far out

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Speaker 1: of the way to have easy access to Hollywood. So

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Speaker 1: for instance, you mentioned Pandora's Box, it was probably like

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Speaker 1: twelve miles away. That's, you know, pretty far if you're

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Speaker 1: taking one or two busses. Um so um. I first

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Speaker 1: started seeing notable rock and roll groups in ninety seven,

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Speaker 1: but mostly in the early uh and and throughout most

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Speaker 1: of the seventies. Now, these were on their way up

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Speaker 1: in clubs. Who you're talking about going to shows and

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Speaker 1: a Monica, you know, the Forum, etcetera. Yeah, all yeah,

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Speaker 1: all that stuff. Yes, Okay, Now you started the Rhino

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Speaker 1: Records label. What was the first release on the Rhino

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Speaker 1: Records label? Okay? Um? Wild Man Fisher was a an

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Speaker 1: outrageous street singer that Frank Zappa really loved what he

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Speaker 1: was doing, and so Frank Zappa recorded a double album

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Speaker 1: with him, Caught an Evening with wild Man Fisher, and

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Speaker 1: actually didn't sell that well. Um I checked later on

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Speaker 1: about twelve thousand copies, but there was a legendar. Everybody

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Speaker 1: knew about it, right, everybody knew at it. And so

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Speaker 1: what's the famous song on that? All of a sudden

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Speaker 1: there you go round, which I could sing if you want,

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Speaker 1: but so um. Anyway, Uh, he used to come into

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Speaker 1: the store on occasion, and he felt like a rock

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Speaker 1: star because not only do we know who they he

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Speaker 1: he was, but I had his record, Richard Fouss had

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Speaker 1: his record, just his record, Yeah, like we all had

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Speaker 1: his record, so we felt like a star. And on

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Speaker 1: more than one occasion he would come in when we

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Speaker 1: opened and he stayed the whole day, which was not

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Speaker 1: the most pleasurable experience, but anyway, as a way to

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Speaker 1: show his appreciation, he made up the song A cappella

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Speaker 1: called go to Rhino Records, and I called up Jeff

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Speaker 1: Gold and I said, come on over with your cassette

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Speaker 1: recorder and we recorded him doing two passes in the

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Speaker 1: back room and we put that on an A side

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Speaker 1: and then Richard and I a couple of other employees

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Speaker 1: recorded a B side, and originally we pressed that up.

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Speaker 1: What what was the B side? Rhino the Place to Go.

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Speaker 1: It was talking about how we were so much better

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Speaker 1: than all the other stores like Errand's and Moby Disk

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Speaker 1: and places like that. And who wrote that? Richard and

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Speaker 1: I wrote it? Okay? And was it acapella? Also? No, No,

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Speaker 1: it was he played bass, I sang, Steve Rosen played guitar,

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Speaker 1: and his brother Uh played drums. Steve Rosen was a

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Speaker 1: writer who people would know. And he worked at a time.

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Speaker 1: I hired him for a time at the store. Okay,

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Speaker 1: And that was recorded also in the back room. No,

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Speaker 1: that was it the Rosen family, Uh residence in Culver

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Speaker 1: City in the garage okay. You know it's funny because

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Speaker 1: people always hear about stuff being made in the garage

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Speaker 1: in l a one thing they don't know it's warm.

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Speaker 1: But converted garages, I mean like Jan of Verry, of

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Speaker 1: Jan and Dean, A lot of people started in the garage. Literally,

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Speaker 1: this wasn't converted garage. This was just a garage. And

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Speaker 1: I brought in my tape recorder and Mike's and that's

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Speaker 1: how he did it. But you had a tape recorder UM. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: First of all, UM, I had my first tape recorder.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm not sure if I was like fifteen

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Speaker 1: or sixteen. And then I upgraded, but you know, the

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Speaker 1: whole thing was, hey, you can take the songs off

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Speaker 1: the radio, which which I did, but then that didn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily mean that it stopped me from buying records or

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Speaker 1: lots of records. And then UM, at a certain point,

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Speaker 1: UM I upgraded to a UH A Sony tact multi track.

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Speaker 1: I got a deal on it. I'm new, but I

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Speaker 1: got a deal on it. But anyway, we're getting ahead

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Speaker 1: of the story. So what happened was we just pressed

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Speaker 1: up five hundred forty five just to give away to

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Speaker 1: our UH customers as a present whether they thought it

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Speaker 1: was there, and then somehow it filtered over to England

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Speaker 1: and John Peel, a noted UH underground disc jockey who

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Speaker 1: has then had a show on the BBC for many years,

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Speaker 1: had a show in the BBC he's toted playing at

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Speaker 1: and UM so our record came out in and then

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Speaker 1: we started getting requests from England and other places, so

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Speaker 1: we pressed up a thousand to sell. And what's interesting

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Speaker 1: is UM at the end of nineteen seventy six. Again,

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Speaker 1: this is in England. John Peel had a top fifty

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Speaker 1: listener requests and most of it was typically Number one

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Speaker 1: was Stairway to Heaven, No surprise there. Number go to

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Speaker 1: Rhino Records by wild Man Fisher. Okay, now you've got

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Speaker 1: a lot of ink in the calendar section. It was

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Speaker 1: a tabloid in the l A Times. And you told

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Speaker 1: me it happened organically that you weren't busy pitching them.

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Speaker 1: Is that the same way it worked with wild Man Fischer?

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Speaker 1: Did someone send it to John Peelard? He just find it.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea how it got to him, No idea,

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Speaker 1: no idea. Okay. Rhino Records was a store now. Originally

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Speaker 1: Richard Fuss had sort of a record department in the

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Speaker 1: store in Santa mob. When did Rhino Records the actual

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Speaker 1: store start? Um? Yeah? So uh, Richard out grew Apollo Electronics.

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Speaker 1: He had a little concession in part of the store.

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Speaker 1: Um and it was October nineteen seventy three that he

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Speaker 1: opened the one on West with Boulevard. I guess rent

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Speaker 1: was a lot cheaper on West with Boulevard. Then well,

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Speaker 1: then it went up and then it went back down.

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Speaker 1: Again what happened was it was Ninon's Electronics, this guy

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Speaker 1: who used to repair electronics back when that was still

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Speaker 1: a thing. Right, He moved to the back room and

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Speaker 1: he rented Richard you know the bulk of the space

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Speaker 1: that I remember that I was wondering what was going

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Speaker 1: on back there. Now I got the complete story. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Now when he established Rhino Records, did you shop there? Well? I, um, okay,

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Speaker 1: here's how it happened. Um. A famous record store in

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Speaker 1: l a history, Lewin's Record Paradise on Hollywood Boulevard. Um,

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Speaker 1: they had the English imports. Okay, just to stay for

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Speaker 1: those people going back to this history. What was Wallax

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Speaker 1: Music City in this whole hierarchy. Well, Wallax Music City

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Speaker 1: was big. They were on the corner of Sunset in Vine.

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Speaker 1: Um big records selection. Um, they only sold it list price,

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Speaker 1: which meant that but they had listening booths and but

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Speaker 1: they also had sheet music and they had uh instruments,

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Speaker 1: you know, smaller part. But it was so let's say

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Speaker 1: like if you were in the music business, you would

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Speaker 1: shop at Walax Music City was right there. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: Glenn Wallack was one of the original partners in Capitol

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Speaker 1: Records right now. Obviously forty five didn't come shrink wrapped.

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Speaker 1: But let's say you wanted to listen to an album

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Speaker 1: and they let you listen to an album and the

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Speaker 1: we're listening booth, we're not too unshrink it. But they

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Speaker 1: would have playable copies. And did you ever do that? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Not often because again you know, driving from Westchester, but

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Speaker 1: I would say maybe at least two, maybe three times. Okay, So,

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Speaker 1: but there was this other story you were talking about, Okay,

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Speaker 1: Lewin's Reck Your Paradise. So, um it was local exactly

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Speaker 1: where I'm not sure the exactly address meanybe like sixty

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Speaker 1: SidD Hollywood Boulevard, um you know around um Um Highland.

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Speaker 1: I saw um some roughly. Um So the idea with

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Speaker 1: the English imports at the time, they were like extra

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Speaker 1: songs because of a different way of calculating the publishing.

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Speaker 1: And we'll just explain that to my audience how they

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Speaker 1: calculated the publishing difference where they understand. Okay, so um

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Speaker 1: uh in England the publishing of course was for the

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Speaker 1: songwriting and the publishing, not the uh, the recording artist,

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Speaker 1: and um so that was a flat rate per side,

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Speaker 1: per album. So if you had five songs one side

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Speaker 1: or eight songs on one side, it was the same.

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Speaker 1: In America, it was always a sense rate per song,

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Speaker 1: so if you had a thirty second song or a

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Speaker 1: two minute and thirty second song, it was the same.

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Speaker 1: So that's why our Beatle albums were totally different, Yes, exactly.

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Speaker 1: In fact, a lot of those you'll see there were

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Speaker 1: less tracks on the American albums. I think only later

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Speaker 1: did people realize that the English pressings probably sounded better.

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Speaker 1: So it was originally for the either songs that weren't

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Speaker 1: that you couldn't get here because they were extracted from

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Speaker 1: the albums, or else different lineups. But anyway, in um,

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Speaker 1: this was early nineteen seventy two. At that point, um

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Speaker 1: the albums were the same on both sides of the Atlantic.

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Speaker 1: So Lewin's was um uh. To try to survive, they

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Speaker 1: were selling bootlegs, and I was, you know, as any

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Speaker 1: music fan is, you know you wanted the bootlegs, right,

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Speaker 1: So I was, you're talking about bootleg live recordings or

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Speaker 1: studio What kind of bootlegs did they have there? Well,

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Speaker 1: it was mostly live recordings at that point, and then

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Speaker 1: you know, a little bit later than they started doing

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Speaker 1: out takes. But as I was thumbing through the bin,

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Speaker 1: I can't remember if I said something to the southern customer,

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Speaker 1: but because you know, I thought the prices were high,

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Speaker 1: and he said, oh, there's this guy at you know,

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Speaker 1: Paul Electronics in Santa Monica that you could you know,

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Speaker 1: he's cheaper and you could also trade your records so

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Speaker 1: you're not out of pocket. So that's where I met Richard.

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Speaker 1: And then from going to the store, you know a

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Speaker 1: number of times I really liked him. Um, he was

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Speaker 1: low key, but there weren't not there weren't many customers,

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Speaker 1: so you could talk with them. And as many records

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Speaker 1: did he have? Since I never went there, how many

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Speaker 1: records was his inventory? Generally? Um, um, hundreds if not thousands? No, No,

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Speaker 1: And so anyway, so I knew him. And it's interesting

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Speaker 1: is that when I left for England, um, for my

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Speaker 1: second trip. So so again this was probably uh Lates

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Speaker 1: timber ninety three. That's after you graduate from college. He

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Speaker 1: graduated June juno. Yeah, so he Um, he didn't have

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Speaker 1: a name for the store. But I thought because I

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Speaker 1: liked him so much, I saved up my good promos

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Speaker 1: and I brought him and I said, look, you know,

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Speaker 1: I want you to start, and you have, like the

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Speaker 1: bins look really good. So I mean he paid me

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Speaker 1: for him, of course, but it was a type of

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Speaker 1: thing that um uh, the suggestion I had for the

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Speaker 1: store because I was this is not when he's opening

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Speaker 1: the new store in Westwood. Yes, I said, because I

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Speaker 1: was a big Kings fan. I said, like Waterloo Sunset Records.

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Speaker 1: And then I left and then of course when I

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Speaker 1: came back, the store was open and it was Rhino Records.

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Speaker 1: Well it's funny. There is a Waterloo Records in Austin.

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Speaker 1: I've been there. Yeah, the guy runs it, owns it,

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Speaker 1: a great guy. But how do you know how it

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Speaker 1: ended up becoming Rhino? Um, I know exactly. Um. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they didn't have a name, so he and a few

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Speaker 1: of his friends they were just throwing out, you know, names,

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Speaker 1: and this one who was a budding DJ by the

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Speaker 1: name of Jerry k he suggested Rhino. And I think

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Speaker 1: just primarily because of the alliteration, you know. I just

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Speaker 1: maybe later on we found meaning behind it, but at

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Speaker 1: the time that's all it was. Okay, let's go back.

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Speaker 1: So you're in Westchester, Uh, what does your father do

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Speaker 1: for a living? Um? Okay um? So my father UM

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Speaker 1: didn't see a need to go to college, and he

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Speaker 1: took what he said in high school was a commercial course.

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Speaker 1: And he was like he was born in America, born

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Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, and now his parents were they born

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Speaker 1: in America? His parents Romania um so Um. He became

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Speaker 1: like a bookkeeper and he was working in the Mojave

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Speaker 1: Desert for the Torazzo company, which people know draws roso

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Speaker 1: because of the floor with the you know, the and

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Speaker 1: it was like so hot out there. He told me

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Speaker 1: that in the morning for breakfast he would have like

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Speaker 1: a steak in a malted milk and not eat the

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Speaker 1: rest of the day because it was too hot. And

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Speaker 1: again there probably wasn't air conditioning back and you know,

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Speaker 1: at a certain point he had, you know, like this

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Speaker 1: is it and he quit, not realizing that it was

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Speaker 1: the early stages of the depression and getting another job

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Speaker 1: was not going to be so easy. So your father

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Speaker 1: was born in what year? Okay? So your father was

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Speaker 1: relatively old? Yes, okay, so um anyway is uh um?

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Speaker 1: I mean to make a long story not short. But

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Speaker 1: his brother in law UM was in the hostel produce business.

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Speaker 1: So just to be clear, he married your mother when

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Speaker 1: he was working in open mohave no much later, but

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Speaker 1: his brother in law for one of his siblings, exactly

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Speaker 1: for sister, so he had two sisters. So anyway, um

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Speaker 1: so uh so, and then that kind of went bankrupt

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Speaker 1: and he stayed in the wholesale produce business, not because

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Speaker 1: he liked it, but because he needed to, you know,

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Speaker 1: have an income for his family. And then at a

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Speaker 1: certain point, um, when I was in high school, when

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Speaker 1: he got um eased out by the competition, he went

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Speaker 1: to work for the post office. And originally he thought

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Speaker 1: he'd be really great to be a mailman, but he

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Speaker 1: worked in the weight room downstairs for fourteen years until

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Speaker 1: his vision deteriorated. But he really liked you know, working,

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Speaker 1: so um. Yeah, my my mom was just basically a homemaker. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but this begs the question where did you get money

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Speaker 1: to buy records? Well, initially I had very little, and

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Speaker 1: it was I did chores around the house. And my

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Speaker 1: first job, um was the summer after I graduated west

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Speaker 1: Chester High and um it was working as a ostensibly

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Speaker 1: a bus boy at the restaurant or coffee shop on

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Speaker 1: the top of the Broadway department store in Westchester. Um,

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Speaker 1: a dollar six, I was promised, oh yeah, plus tips,

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Speaker 1: but I never signing tipps. Um. And also the other

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Speaker 1: thing is, even though I was hired as a bus boy, Um,

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Speaker 1: the dishwasher quit and they were very very rarely replacements.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes there would be like a replacement from one or

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Speaker 1: two days, usually with alcohol on their breath. So that

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Speaker 1: means I was busting all the tables and washing the

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Speaker 1: dishes totally on my own. Um. And but I did

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Speaker 1: learn how to make an egg cream. Okay, but let's

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Speaker 1: go back a little bit. Um, how did you first

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Speaker 1: get turned onto let's call it rock and roll? Well, Um,

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Speaker 1: I was aware of music here there, and bought a

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Speaker 1: record infrequently because I didn't really have much money and

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Speaker 1: wasn't a big fan until of course, the Beatles. So

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Speaker 1: the Beatles chain did it all for me. Um, not

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Speaker 1: only the music and how vibrant and exciting it was,

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Speaker 1: but also in the UH press conferences, their sense of humor.

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Speaker 1: You know, you have to really give that um uh

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Speaker 1: a lot um because if you'd heard comments from like

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Speaker 1: the four seasons of the Beach Boys, they were really

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Speaker 1: dull and you know, or Elvis, you never had anything

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Speaker 1: to say, and you know, the the Beatles were like comedians,

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Speaker 1: so that kind of drew you in. And then of course, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, a year later, I mean I was already

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Speaker 1: a big rock and roll fan, but A Hard Day's Night,

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Speaker 1: UM was just uh then as well as now, such

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Speaker 1: an amazing movie. And even though when you read about

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Speaker 1: the Beatles much later and you heard about the unseeming

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Speaker 1: elements about them, but still, you know, Hard Day's Night,

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Speaker 1: for however fictionalized it is, I mean, that's you want

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Speaker 1: them to be. That that's who you want, Okay, but

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Speaker 1: you obviously you would rich and this is sort of

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Speaker 1: the basis of the Rhino Empire. Had a wild sense

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Speaker 1: of humor. Did your family have a wild sense of humor? No,

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Speaker 1: my mom did have a sense of humor, but not

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Speaker 1: in that way. UM. So you know it's interesting, UM,

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Speaker 1: and you know you could identify with this from how

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Speaker 1: we all grew up. And a lot of that influence

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Speaker 1: was TV. So not only were there a lot of

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Speaker 1: um comedic TV shows like I was a big fan

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Speaker 1: of Sergeant Bilko and then subsequently Car fifty four, Where

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Speaker 1: Are You? Um? But also um, because of TV being

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Speaker 1: relatively new, you had a lot of older movies that

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Speaker 1: were uh syndicated on TV, like the Marx Brothers for instance.

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Speaker 1: So probably a lot of that irreverent humor came from

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Speaker 1: the Marx Brothers. I mean, not solely them, but probably

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Speaker 1: primarily then because they were so out there. Okay, now,

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Speaker 1: before the Beatles and too a certain degree concurrent, there

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Speaker 1: was a huge so cal sound. There was the surf sound,

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Speaker 1: there were instrumentals, there were the beach Boys, Jan and Dean.

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Speaker 1: Were you aware of all that? Yeah? But I didn't

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Speaker 1: really listen to the radio. So obviously I knew about

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Speaker 1: you know, Surf City and some of the surf songs

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Speaker 1: and you know, uh, you know, uh four Seasons a

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Speaker 1: little bit there, but I didn't really listen to the radio.

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Speaker 1: Was more kind of in passing or maybe a sports

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Speaker 1: night in junior high. The records got played, like you know,

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Speaker 1: Louis Louis and things like that I would pick up on.

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Speaker 1: But I and prior to the Beatles, I did not

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Speaker 1: listen to the radio. Okay, And did you buy Meet

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Speaker 1: the Beatles? Yes, of course, actually my parents did. But anyway,

351
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Speaker 1: what what you mentioned before? So when I had the

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Speaker 1: bus boy job. That's the first time that I actually

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Speaker 1: made money, and then um, after that, in the fall,

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Speaker 1: um a friend of mine worked at a small market

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Speaker 1: in Westchester called Hillmart. So, uh, he got me a

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Speaker 1: job at Hillmart. So I worked there for a number

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Speaker 1: of months, and then the following summer fed Coe, which

358
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Speaker 1: was a discount the best buy if it's era right,

359
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Speaker 1: and I was during the summer, I was a socker.

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Speaker 1: They called it a soacker. But after that I started

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Speaker 1: to make enough money so that by the following year, Um,

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Speaker 1: I didn't need to get a job. So I didn't

363
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Speaker 1: make a lot of money writing, but I made enough

364
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Speaker 1: so that I didn't have to. It would be like

365
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Speaker 1: the equivalent if I had a summer job. Okay, so

366
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Speaker 1: you go to college at u c. L A. And

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Speaker 1: you famously have a band. Were you in bands before that? Well,

368
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Speaker 1: we had a a band at Westchester High We didn't

369
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Speaker 1: play anywhere. It was just kind of because of my

370
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Speaker 1: tape recorder and be like, hey, let's what do we

371
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Speaker 1: sound like? And you know, when you're not doing much,

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Speaker 1: that's you know, you get together. What was your incentive

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Speaker 1: for buying the tape recorder? Well, I told you before

374
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Speaker 1: about getting the free music. Okay, so that was your

375
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 1: main incentive to buy it, so you could tape off

376
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Speaker 1: the radio right before, you know, before I got the

377
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 1: four track, which was you know, oriented more towards that's

378
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,919
Speaker 1: why recording the band subsequent to high school. Okay. So

379
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 1: but in high school you did have guys come over

380
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Speaker 1: and you would sing into the uh, into the tape recorder. Yeah. Yeah,

381
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 1: we had, you know, people who played music and you know,

382
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,640
Speaker 1: that's what we did it. And yeah, I mean this

383
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 1: was something you you would say you're in a band,

384
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Speaker 1: or it happened, you know, every week, or it happened

385
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Speaker 1: once a year, mostly during the summer. But it wasn't

386
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,679
Speaker 1: like anything to brag about, like hey baby, I'm in

387
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 1: a band. It wasn't like that was there a name

388
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,159
Speaker 1: well okay, because of UH, I was intrigued by certain

389
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 1: names like the Jefferson Air playing the Strawberry alarm clock.

390
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 1: So I came up with Mogen David and his wine

391
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 1: own and everybody agreed it. So that was an act,

392
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 1: but that was still when you were in high school.

393
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 1: You called it that. Yeah, okay. Then you go to

394
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: you and you were always the singer. Yeah, you know,

395
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 1: I couldn't really play an instruments. So okay, you go

396
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 1: to college u c l A first, because I thought

397
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 1: about this is a amazing. When I went to college

398
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,479
Speaker 1: in Middlebury College in Vermont Saint Era, I was like

399
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 1: the freak. And then I came to l A. There

400
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,400
Speaker 1: were a million people like me like it, were addicted

401
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 1: to records and going out, etcetera. When you go to

402
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,239
Speaker 1: l u c l A, you're living at home. You're

403
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 1: living in u c l A. The four years, three

404
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: of the years I lived at home. One year, Um,

405
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: we had an apartment with three of my friends. I'm

406
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 1: Beverly Glen. So the question is did you immediately find

407
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 1: your tribe when you went to u c l A. Okay, Um,

408
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:32,719
Speaker 1: first of all, what's interesting. I want to point out

409
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 1: a couple of things. One is, in Oliver Stone's movie

410
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: On the Doors, you see a concert and you see

411
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: everybody has, you know, long hair, and um, that really

412
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: wasn't the way it was back then. And even at

413
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: u c l A. I'm not gonna say that nobody

414
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 1: had long hair, but relatively few people did. And people

415
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: dressed you know, pretty straight or if they were sloppy

416
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: you'd say, like, you know, hippies. Um. But uh, the

417
00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: other thing is, um pretty aware as far as the

418
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 1: concept of fraternities and fraternities seemed old hap to me,

419
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: and the concept of you know, the hazing and all

420
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,959
Speaker 1: that stuff, it was it seemed like another era to me.

421
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: So when I started to write for the u c

422
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 1: l A Daily bruin and over a time it was

423
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: almost like you know, my fellow writers and music fans.

424
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Speaker 1: Because it was in the entertainment section, it almost was

425
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: kind of lack of fraternity. We tended to like each other.

426
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 1: We would go to the shows if somebody had, you know,

427
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 1: a couple of tickets, Hey, you want to come with me? Um?

428
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was and also not only the camaraderie,

429
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 1: but a lot of smart kids and people who dis

430
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: distinguished themselves in varying levels. And also um, you know

431
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 1: for me, you know, really learning how to write. Okay,

432
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: but let's go back. When did you start the band

433
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: up in college? Okay? So after high school? Um, you

434
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: know it was kind of forgotten about. And then um,

435
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: I didn't get the four track until after like after

436
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 1: I graduated. So um, one of these So basically, how

437
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: did you pay for the four truck UM well, because

438
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: I was making moneys a right, I think he was

439
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 1: maybe around a thousand bucks something like that. Okay, But anyway,

440
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 1: so music writers, a lot of music writers played musical instruments, right, right,

441
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: So that's how kind of like to uh reinvigorate the band.

442
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 1: So this was UM December uh Jonathan Kellerman, who subsequently

443
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 1: became a New York Times bestselling author on guitar Excellent

444
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 1: guitar player, Jim Bickhart, who was my editor, who on bass,

445
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: Tom Madie from high school on piano. Um. There was

446
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: a friend of mine from high school who was in bands,

447
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 1: who was a pretty good drummer, and he agreed to

448
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: do it, and then on the morning of he said

449
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: he wasn't going to do it, but I'll own you

450
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: my drums. So I was like, so piste off I put.

451
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,360
Speaker 1: You know, we got everybody together. So I ended up

452
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: playing drums um and I never really played before you

453
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 1: although you know you'd practiced, so of course everybody did

454
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 1: so considering that it actually turned out pretty well. So

455
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,199
Speaker 1: two songs Um nose Job, which was a cover of

456
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: a Mad Magazine song, and then Tom and I wrote

457
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: a B side so that was all recorded, the instrumentals

458
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: on one Sunday, December, okay, but then the band continued. No,

459
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 1: that was it, okay, But that what happens because the

460
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: sinking function of the Selles sink function on my tape

461
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 1: recorder messed up. It took many months later until the

462
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: next school year of in the apartment on Beverly Glen

463
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 1: with my neighbor who I wasn't familiar with before, George

464
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: Carlin and his family. So I became friends with him

465
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: and his wife. And anyway, he loaned me his tape

466
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: recorder and in the um in the bathroom with the

467
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: tile in our apartment, that's where I recorded the vocals.

468
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: So I actually I pressed that myself. Um that was

469
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: I think November nine seventy Um, yeah, yes, so but anyway,

470
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: um and then so originally I did two records on

471
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: my own, two and then I did an album which

472
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: came out in July. Whoa, whoa, whoa. How does Richard

473
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: get involved? No, he's this, He's not involved. So this

474
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: was on Kosher Records, okay. And so basically a year

475
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 1: or two later, when we decided to do The wild

476
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: Man Fisher, I came to Richards said, I know how

477
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: to do this, so my band and doing it on

478
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: my own. This was really a few years before the

479
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: late seventies. You know, do it yourself. Um yeah, so okay,

480
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 1: let me be clear. You cut the record in December seventy.

481
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: Was Paul Rappaport part of the Bean then? Um, no,

482
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: he was. He came in a number of months later.

483
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: What happened was he was a college rep for Columbia Records,

484
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: and uh, he came into the at a certain point.

485
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: He came into the u c l A Daily bruin

486
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: and ingratiated himself and so I liked him. And anyway,

487
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: he I think he'd heard um nose job on the

488
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: u c l A station and he loved it. And

489
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,719
Speaker 1: he got from me. I can't remember, it was ten

490
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: or twenty copies. Of course he gave me promos and

491
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: exchange no money, but it was fine with me. Better okay.

492
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: He ended up being a promotion right. So later that year,

493
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: so again this was in um December nineteen one. Then

494
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: with him on guitar, I put another put together another

495
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: group and we recorded two more songs in an actual

496
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: eight track you know, a little budget, but an a

497
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: track recording studio, and UM that came out a few

498
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: months later, so and and and then of course he

499
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: was on the album and Uh in two we played

500
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: a handful of dates and he was in that band. Okay,

501
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: so let's just get the structure right. Summer seventy you

502
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: cut these couple of tracks, but they don't come out

503
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: until sevent seventy one, and Richard is helping you distribute them. Um. Okay, wait,

504
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: let me make a correction. Correction, correction. The nose job

505
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: was in December sixte Okay. And at this point, once

506
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: the record is pressed, what do you do to sell it? Well? Um,

507
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: Among the first couple of forty five, it was because

508
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: I knew a number of writers. It was, you know,

509
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: getting record reviews and they would list the you know address,

510
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: send in you know whatever we charged for it. Um,

511
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: that didn't really sell that much. Um, and what happened.

512
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tie this up. So I put together, like, uh,

513
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: kind of a best of of a lot of the

514
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: tracks we had, UM, including the second single we did

515
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: with Paul Rappaport and UM. I did an album and

516
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: it was kind of like live at leads where I

517
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: had inserts on it and the luxe packaging, and um,

518
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: I don't know how many people got the joke, but

519
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: there was an exploitation Beatles record in nineteen sixty four

520
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: that had the Beatles backing Tony Sheridan and it was

521
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: called Savage Young Beatles and it had a picture of

522
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: them from Hamburg with the leather jackets. So I knocked

523
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: that cover off, calling ours savage Young Winos and I

524
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: borrowed uh leather jackets from Michael Oakes and we did

525
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: like a cover that looked like, you know, pose like them.

526
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: So what I wanted to say was so again going

527
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: to London three there was a friend of Jeff Gold's,

528
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: Larry de Bay, who was a um no, actually you

529
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: know what. That was seventy six but it still ties

530
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: in the So the Rons have gone to h made

531
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: a big splash in London a few months earlier, and

532
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: on the cover I'm guessing because we looked like the

533
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: Ramones with leather jackets. Um. When I went to London

534
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: that year, it was like with two boxes of Winos

535
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: albums that he paid for when I gave him to him.

536
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: And again I don't think it anything to do with

537
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: the music. What it was just because we looked like

538
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: the Ramones I was kind of okay, just to be

539
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: clear the original singles and album where they district? Was

540
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: Richard involved whatsoever? Um? No, that was way before him

541
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: and um at a certain point. Yeah, I sold copies

542
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: out of the Rhinos store. This was in Um. Okay,

543
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: let's go back. When did you decide you wanted to

544
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: be a writer? Okay, good question, because I wasn't thinking

545
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: that in high school. Um. I'd read a review in

546
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: the u. Cly Daily Bruin of the grassroots album Golden Grates,

547
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: which I thought maligned the grassroots. Okay, and I and

548
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, I could do better than this.

549
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: So I went to the u c A Daily Bruin.

550
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: And I been there in college Okay, so, um, I

551
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: started h September, So this was uh the spring quarter

552
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: of sixty. Feeling you've already you know, know what's going

553
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: on in college? Okay, you go in, Okay, they say

554
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: you gotta come back when the music gets here. He's

555
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: here Tuesday afternoon. You've got to speak to John Mendelssohn legend. Yes, Now,

556
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: I'd read him in the Daily Bruin and brilliant writer

557
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: brilliant like head and shoulders above anybody, and later, you know,

558
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: when I would read them in Rolling Stone again head

559
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: and shoulders above anybody and also excellent taste. First question

560
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: he asked me when I told him when they're right,

561
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: he goes, do you like the who? Now? I said yes,

562
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: And I heard that people who said no didn't write

563
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: that year. So that's that's an aspect about Mendelssohn that um. Yeah,

564
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: there's a lot of positives about him, but you know,

565
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: because of his psychological makeup, you know, there was also

566
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: aspects about his behavior that alienated people, including uh, negatively

567
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: affecting his um you know, career momentum. Shall we say

568
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: we ultimately we had a band Christopher Milk. Yeah, Well

569
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: what happened was at first I didn't make the connection,

570
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: but um Um and Orientation, which was two nights during

571
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: the summer of nine UM living in one of the

572
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: residence halls. One night they had a dance, or I

573
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: should say they had a band, and it was his band.

574
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: And I really liked the band, not because I thought

575
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: they were musically good, because they weren't, but because they

576
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: played songs that nobody would play like. They played the

577
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: Mighty quinn Um and they you know, they did who

578
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: songs and they did I think little Richard maybe keep

579
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: a knocking, But just the song selection was, you know,

580
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: so different, and you know, really good songs. So I said, oh,

581
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: you know, what's the name of your band? And one

582
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 1: of them I thought I misheard. Instead of saying Christopher Milk,

583
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: they said I thought Christian Milk. And then later on

584
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: I kind of figured out, oh yeah, that was the

585
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: guy in the band. Um. But anyway, initially he gave me,

586
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 1: he said, pick any album you want to record, I

587
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 1: mean recorking me review and um at Crane's music in Inglewood.

588
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: I bought. I was a big Easy Beats fan, and

589
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 1: the first album had Friday on my mind. Of course,

590
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: the second album, I was unfamiliar with any of the songs,

591
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: but I was such a I like the first album

592
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: so much. I bought it and that's the one I reviewed,

593
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: and he went through it, you know, with notations, and

594
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 1: so I mean my first I think that was not

595
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: for publication, but the first maybe a couple of things

596
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: he had a hand in assigning or editing before he

597
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: graduated and went on to greener pastures. Okay, so you're

598
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: right for the Daily Bruin. Throughout your college career? Yes,

599
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 1: how many times would your articles appear? Um? Maybe like

600
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: a couple of times a month maybe? And then when

601
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: you're a senior, who's the editor? Um? Okay? Well I

602
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: mentioned it went from Mendelssohn to Bickheart. Um. When I

603
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: was a senior, um Stan Berkowitz was a He was

604
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: the editor of the entertainment section that I wrote for.

605
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: But he was a film major. But he loved music.

606
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: He would go to we would go to concerts together.

607
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: You're a major, was what? Um? Okay. When I uh

608
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: entered U c l A. And I'm not sure where

609
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,240
Speaker 1: I got this notation, but I thought i'd be a lawyer.

610
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: He didn't have pre law. They recommended political science. UM.

611
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: I was reading these textbooks, which I thought were really boring.

612
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: At a certain point, I thought, you know, I don't

613
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,879
Speaker 1: feel like going to law school for three years. Um.

614
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 1: And by the time I kind of realized what I thought.

615
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: Two majors that i'd like, they weren't really viable. UM.

616
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: U c l A had journalism classes but no journalism major.

617
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 1: And film. I liked film um and um, but it

618
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: was a little bit too late for me to I

619
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: think apply because it was highly competitive. So at that point, Um,

620
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: it was the early stages of you could make up

621
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 1: your own major and if you got it approved, you

622
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 1: could graduate under that. So, UM, I came up with

623
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,760
Speaker 1: this thing. I think they named it sociology and the media.

624
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: So uh, film music sociology. Probably the best way to

625
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 1: describe it is using an example like High Noon, which

626
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: I think was nineteen fifty two. But okay, high Noon

627
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: was this eighteen eighties western. Um, but it was an

628
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: allegory for um standing up to communism and during the

629
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: McCarthy era. So even though it was about you know,

630
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: this Western, it dealt with these contemporary themes. Um a

631
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 1: different film people know, uh Chinatown, Well that was a

632
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 1: metaphor for Watergate. Okay, Uh, you're also become a rep

633
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:41,359
Speaker 1: for Columbia Records. How does that come together? Um. Paul

634
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 1: Rappaport was and is a year older than me. So

635
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: he was leaving. I said, hell, can I, you know,

636
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: replace you? And uh he said yeah. So UM I

637
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: felt really fortunate. Uh. Not only because of that, but

638
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: I thought at this point, Um, I wanted to get

639
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: a job in the music business because I had become

640
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: a little bit familiar with some of the departments, like

641
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 1: the publicity department some of the others, and you know,

642
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: I love the music and um, and I thought this

643
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:19,439
Speaker 1: would be a good stepping stone, so I thought so. Um. Anyway, yeah,

644
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: that was my senior year now at that time, mean,

645
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: that was a huge program and million people ended up

646
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: working in the industry. But what you tell me is

647
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 1: they did not offer you a job, whereas they had

648
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: offered a lot of other people's jobs. Well, I'm not

649
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 1: really aware of a lot of other people. I mean

650
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: I know, um, um the local people from southern California,

651
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: like you know, um, the Long Beach person in the

652
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: USC person and UM myself. Maybe there was one other. Um.

653
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: By the way, I did a great job. I got

654
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 1: um lots of ads on the u c l A

655
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: radio station because they loved me, because I gave him promos,

656
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: right even you know, things that like Birds of a

657
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: Feather by par of Your and the Raiders and things

658
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: that didn't become big hits. I put on help to

659
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: put on some concerts. Um. I had a really good

660
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: relationship with the four record stores in West Village, so

661
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,359
Speaker 1: and then also with my writing and at this point

662
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: I had gotten a few articles in Rolling Stone, so

663
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: I thought I was primed and either nobody at Columbia

664
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: could foresee the potential that I subsequently had or at

665
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,879
Speaker 1: any of the other labels, and I was really kind

666
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: of crushed. Well that's my question, were to what were

667
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: you disheartened? Well, very much so. But part of it

668
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: you have to understand is, um, you know, I was

669
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: still basically a shy person. I'm not gonna say I

670
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't talk to anybody. But at the time, I think

671
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,359
Speaker 1: Paul described it as like, uh, you know, you didn't

672
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 1: you know, you didn't hang out, you know, doing drugs

673
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: in the bathroom, you know, like with like the other

674
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: guys where they would like, you know, think that you

675
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 1: were like on a level with them or part of

676
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: their you know, areas team. So you know, I was

677
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,760
Speaker 1: just more focused on the music and valuing the music.

678
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: And yeah, I wasn't really thinking about, um, you know,

679
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: the politics or positioning yourself. I wasn't thinking that. Okay,

680
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: so you graduate from college, you go to England, you

681
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: get back, you get a job with a trade okay. Um.

682
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 1: On my way back from England, Paul said to be

683
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: a good idea to visit the people at Columbia or

684
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: CBS in New York. So on the way I I

685
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: my mom was visiting her relatives in New Jersey. So

686
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: I did that and I went to and I met

687
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: you know, the main person was in college there. He

688
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: asked me a question and you didn't say there was

689
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: any jobs available. He said, you know, would you be

690
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: willing to move to New York? And I said no. Um,

691
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: But anyway, the only thing that struck me, Um. I mean,

692
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: he was okay, But the person who was really enthusiastics

693
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 1: to see me was Sandy Perlman, who was the man

694
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: inger and producer of Blue Oyster Cal Did he also

695
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: write the lyrics along with one other person? I mean

696
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: I don't think he did. I think, well maybe with Meltzer,

697
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,240
Speaker 1: because Meltzer they were, you know, classmates in college together,

698
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: Richard Meltzer. So anyway, but it was kind of like odd, like, oh, yeah,

699
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: here's Sandy Permon who I barely know, and yet he's

700
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 1: given me this warm welcome and you know this other

701
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: guy didn't. But nonetheless, um, I remember after that, Um,

702
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 1: you know, the Los Angeles Times classified and thinking about

703
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,879
Speaker 1: jo I want to be a night manager at Jack

704
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 1: in the Box, Like like what else could I do?

705
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 1: You know, reading the ads and you know what, I'd

706
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: really be unhappy doing that. And then at a certain

707
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: point my dad suggested taking the Selective Service UM UM

708
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: test and the Civil Service. Sorry, how did you get

709
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: out of the draft? Um? Well, first of all, there

710
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: was the student deferment and then I didn't have a

711
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: hind number, but it was high enough, so you know,

712
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: if they I don't know if they went up to

713
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 1: like one oh nine, maybe mine was one four or something. Okay,

714
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: so you're you're not gonna be a night manager, So

715
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: what gig do you get? Now? I was just I

716
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: was living at home and um, you know, writing and

717
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: you know, going to the record companies being hopeful. And

718
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: then after taking the Civil Service exam UM, I was

719
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: offered a placement UM it was called um a four

720
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: month placement to be a passport agent because UM this

721
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: was for the handling the influx of summer travelers. So

722
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: it's like it started in April, early April, and it

723
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: was for four months. So it was a hundred and

724
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: fifty dollars a week. The office was in Lawndale and

725
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: I was a passport agent. Four times I was UM

726
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,879
Speaker 1: looking in a judy cating as they called it. UM

727
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: applications that were sent from post offices Saturday. Um was

728
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 1: my day for being out with the public. Okay, So

729
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: how does that end? And how do you end up

730
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: working for cash box? I believe it was alright? So

731
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 1: um again that ended? Um, August seventy three, I had

732
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: passport money. Let's go to England. So wait, you had

733
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 1: that four month There was not a continuous job with

734
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: the civil four month places. By the way, I have

735
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: to say it's I didn't get any letter that said, oh,

736
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,439
Speaker 1: by the way, would you be interested in I never

737
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: got I mean I didn't pursue it because I wasn't

738
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't. I didn't like wearing a student

739
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: tie every day, but none but none didn't an office.

740
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: So you go to England? Um? Yeah, and I did,

741
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: you know, for fun, but you know, record companies did

742
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: some interviews um, and then UM coming back still looking around,

743
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,919
Speaker 1: looking around. But I've been after Richard after he opened

744
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: the store. He had one full time employee, and you know,

745
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: but he wasn't doing that much business. UM. And in fact,

746
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: Richard said, I think within the first few months. There

747
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: was one day when he was working that not one

748
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 1: customer came in. UM. And then a certain point this

749
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: employee UM left and he hired me. And this was

750
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 1: probably UM April seventy four. And then uh UM a

751
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:28,359
Speaker 1: short time after UH, Toby Mamith said, oh yeah, cash

752
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 1: Box magazine is looking for a writer. So he recommended

753
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: me to cash Box and I interviewed and I got

754
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: that job. And UM, I thought I was doing a

755
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: great job. I thought, you know, like I rolled up

756
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: my sleeves, I could really upgrade, you know, the caliber

757
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: of writing in this And after the end of two weeks,

758
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: on the same day that Nixon was fired, I was

759
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: fired and I was shocked. I wasn't expecting it. I

760
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: thought I was doing a good job. They didn't tell

761
00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: me why, but I think I surmise what happened, which

762
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 1: was you wrote a negative review, right UM. No. Well,

763
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: first of all, um UH, the managing uh editor said

764
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: something to me that never would have crossed my mind. Again,

765
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:17,320
Speaker 1: I'm you know, music writing, you know, he said, the

766
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: most important thing in the magazine is the advertisements, or

767
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: anything between the advertisements is secondary. Nobody explained it to me,

768
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: never would have thought about it. Um. I got a

769
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 1: call from Um, one of the local guys at Ireland,

770
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: who wanted up bringing Jim Capaldi by Jim Capoldi's second

771
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: album and just come out. He wanted him to be

772
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: interviewed for this one column was just backed up by

773
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: five weeks and a couple of days ago. I just

774
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: interviewed Rick Wright from Pink Floyd. So why do I

775
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: want to you know, I just thought, you know, this

776
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: is really backed up. So I said, look, really backed up.

777
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: Maybe I could review the album. Wanted to send it

778
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: over and I think that that's what caused me to

779
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 1: be fired because they were going to buy an ad

780
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: or something. Well, because you know, I didn't have the

781
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 1: guy come buy and interview him. Okay, So when you

782
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 1: got the job at cash Box, where you're still working

783
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: at Rhino or you moved up No, no, I was

784
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: working at Rhino. Fortunately I was able to get my

785
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: job back, and at that point, again rolling up my sleeves,

786
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,240
Speaker 1: I thought, so okay. So when I had interviewed Peter

787
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: asher Um and this was in the summer of one,

788
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: he was one of the things we talked about was

789
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 1: when he was at Apple records, and he said, you know,

790
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: you could be fired for no reason at all in

791
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: this business. And then you know, it happened to him,

792
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: and then it happened to me, and I felt, look,

793
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: I've got I had my own apartment. You know, I

794
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: have bills. You know I I need a steady job.

795
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:54,359
Speaker 1: So I, um, you know, focused much more on uh

796
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: Ryano and I worked my I became manager. And the

797
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: initial steps where Richard wasn't into paying bills, so he

798
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: was just throw them on top of the cash register.

799
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 1: And I said, Richard, you know, do you mind if

800
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 1: I pay these bills? Sure? So I would see like

801
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: he had delinquent charges. So I said, look, let me

802
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 1: pay the bills. At least I could save you money.

803
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: So that was kind of the first step. Uh. And

804
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: then I got you know, more involved. Okay, so how

805
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: did traffic ultimately spike? He said he worked there and

806
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 1: there was nobody there one day. Oh okay, Um, what

807
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: gradually built? And I I was able to get at

808
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: least some of my friends to trade their records in.

809
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: But you know, when you live in Hollywood, you know,

810
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: Westwood's kind of inconvenience. You'd rather be errands and you

811
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: know on you know Melrose near Fairfax, right, but you

812
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: know some people did come. So I I tried to

813
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 1: help him, and um, you know, I tried to do

814
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: different things, and Richard was into doing uh promotions and things. Um.

815
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: But anyway, one thing that seemed significant, um, because we

816
00:47:56,080 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: accepted used records. Richard had a deal where he could

817
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 1: return a certain amount of used records as defective getting

818
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: credit for new records. Now, these were not records that

819
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: were trashed. These were records that you know looked, you know,

820
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: like they were new. But just so therefore, if you okay,

821
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: um to clarify, if you were a big chain like

822
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: Tower Records or the Warehouse or Sam Goodies, you brought

823
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: records for less money than if you were you know,

824
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 1: one or two stores and you bought from what was called,

825
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: um like a wholesaler so um. In this case, Richard

826
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: was advertised again this is maybe like in the u

827
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 1: c L. A Doom Bruin or something. It's like one

828
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: store for uh certain records like an Elton John or

829
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 1: whatever below list price. And the guy who owned the

830
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 1: warehouse chain was like, really, instanse, how could he be

831
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:01,280
Speaker 1: getting these for less than me? So he uh initiated

832
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: um a lawsuit. So I was able to get my

833
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: friends in the local press like um, um the l

834
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: a free press to do like you know David versus

835
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 1: Goliath thing, how dare they? And I think, um that

836
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: was you know, getting that press really helped to um,

837
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 1: you know, collect more business for the store. Well, I

838
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,399
Speaker 1: remember it, all these special days, etcetera. Once it heat

839
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,280
Speaker 1: it up, so you do the wild Man Fisher record.

840
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 1: What's the next record? Um? Richard and I were really

841
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: into novelty records. I mentioned before nose Job, and I

842
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 1: think you remember this, you know, growing up listening to

843
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,959
Speaker 1: Top forty in the fifties and sixties, there would usually

844
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: always be like one novelty record, whether it be Purple

845
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 1: People Eater or which doctor Um and uh take away

846
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,479
Speaker 1: Alan Sherman, Hello Mota, Hello Fada. And it was really fun,

847
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: uh you know to hear these records. And unfortunately, you know,

848
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: subsequent generation just kind of you know, never had that experience.

849
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 1: And in fact, the first album that I bought was

850
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: Alan Sherman's album My Son the Folksing first album. So um,

851
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: so in our first year we did novelty records, which

852
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 1: are cheap to record, because we were the artists. We

853
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 1: just made up the artist. We did a little bit,

854
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: just a little bit of reissuing old stuff but a

855
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: little bit slower. Okay, So you put out the wild

856
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 1: Man Fisher record, Yes, then you say this was fun

857
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 1: or you're thinking we're gonna make some money or well, okay,

858
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: all right, and then we gotta think one distributor from okay,

859
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: well my only clarify. So in January eight we put

860
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: out our first album, which was wild Man Fisher. So

861
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:54,959
Speaker 1: I recorded him on my four track recorder. I think

862
00:50:55,080 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: the the total recording expenses like five. I think we

863
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 1: gave wild Man five hundred, and Richard got a supplier,

864
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: and you know, maybe we'd sold like two thousand hundred

865
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: because of you know, the wild because the Frank's Apple connection.

866
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 1: And that was enough. So then we did two out.

867
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: We had enough to do too. By the way, we

868
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 1: were operating from the back room of the record store,

869
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: so there were no expenses, no overhead expenses. So then

870
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: we did too um subsequent records. One was a compilation

871
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 1: album of some things we've done on singles, but just yes,

872
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,919
Speaker 1: how many and how long did you do singles before

873
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: you put on an album. All right, Um, about three

874
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: years of singles? Three years? Were how many would they sell? Um? Well,

875
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 1: other than um, you know the wild Man go to

876
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 1: Rhino Records, which we talked about, Um, not very much.

877
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know whether they you a hundred

878
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: or two hundred were lost in the distribution system, you know,

879
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 1: just not that, but not not. We're like they were

880
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: so successful, so they were hundreds, they were sold. So

881
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: this was not going to be did you dream? Were

882
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 1: You're just having far to your dream? If well, we'll

883
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 1: get this right, will make money. Well, at this point,

884
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: I think it was more like a hobby. Um, when

885
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: we started putting out albums, it was more of a

886
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: you know, more of an expense. Okay. So when you

887
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,399
Speaker 1: put out the Wildman album three years after singles, which

888
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 1: was three years after the original one, you said you

889
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:36,320
Speaker 1: found a distributor. Now, obviously stores had to buy albums,

890
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: But if you were in New York or Chicago, was

891
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: that record in the bins? Probably some? Okay, Well, I

892
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 1: can tell you where things ramped up a bit in

893
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: that first year. Um, the Temple City Kazoo Orchestra. Okay,

894
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 1: That's what I want to know, is that the second

895
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,359
Speaker 1: Rhino album, No, but it comes pretty close. Well, then

896
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:59,720
Speaker 1: what is that one can't Oh? Two is Rhino Royale,

897
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:04,720
Speaker 1: which was I own that record compilation album of mostly

898
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:08,439
Speaker 1: singles but slightly recorded novelty stuff and the Temple City

899
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: because orchestras on that. Could you buy RNYO Royale with

900
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 1: red vinyl? There was a certain point there was multicolored,

901
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: different colored vinyl. Yes, okay, so now you're gonna make

902
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: your first album. Temple City Orchestra had one cut from

903
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 1: their Temple City because Orchestra started getting some action, no no, no,

904
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: no back from the beating. I'd you come up with

905
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 1: the idea? Okay? That was Richard's idea to lampoon rock

906
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: and roll by doing it with kazoos, because he felt

907
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: that this was his idea. He felt that um Um

908
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: rock and roll was taking itself too seriously when you

909
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: think about um Um, Jerry Lee Lewis and little Richard

910
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: and like almost like cartoon characters. I mean, there was

911
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 1: a lot of fun in spirit of rock and roll

912
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 1: in the fifties and sixties, which kind of, you know,

913
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 1: it dissipated, you know, in the you know, and well

914
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 1: into the seventies. So Um. The idea wasn't just too

915
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: um oh, it's funny kazoo's playing a rock and roll songs.

916
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: It was also to make you know, social commentary. And

917
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:20,720
Speaker 1: he thought that of all the serious acts, led Zeppelin

918
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 1: treated themselves more seriously than anybody else. So let's do

919
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 1: a whole lot of love. So um yeah. So that

920
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: and that started to get play. So where did you

921
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 1: record it? That was in a garage, not you know,

922
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 1: just in somebody. So then how many people played kazoo

923
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 1: on that? You know? It's mostly Richard and myself. He

924
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,319
Speaker 1: did the the Robert Plant part and Jimmy Page part

925
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: and a couple of other people, um doing uh you know,

926
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 1: the rhythm, but with the cute thing is as we

927
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:53,840
Speaker 1: know that, Um, with the panning in the studio on

928
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:59,720
Speaker 1: Jimmy Page's guitar, the slid cargoes a whole lot of love. Yeah. Anyway,

929
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 1: so I did that on the kazoo, and I was

930
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: really proud that I panned the kazoo, like you know,

931
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 1: Jimmy Page's guitar. So how long did it take you

932
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 1: to cut that album? Well, that was one track and

933
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,320
Speaker 1: then because of the play we were getting no, no,

934
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: not even a single just down the Rhino Royale, k

935
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 1: Rock played it, some other things played it, and because

936
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 1: the attention, then we did three more songs. We made

937
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: an e P Temple City Kazoo Band EP, and we

938
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: was a Temple City. Well, I came up with the name.

939
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: I just you know, it's it's a Temple City is

940
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 1: a community near Pasadena. I've never been there, but it just,

941
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 1: you know, you come up with the name. It like, oh,

942
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: that's kind of an interesting name, the Temple City, because

943
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 1: it sounded like it was legitimate. So he cut three

944
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: more tracks. Yeah, and it started to get play, um,

945
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 1: and it was this underground thing and what people kind

946
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 1: of you know, might not remember, but there was a

947
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 1: time in the you know, ramping up for Christmas, October, November,

948
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 1: Fleetwood Mac, Let's Link, Fleetwood Mac and some of the

949
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,879
Speaker 1: big albums when like for instance, with that, well all

950
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 1: the Warrener Brothers presses you know were occupied, you know,

951
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: they were taking space on the independent presses. When our

952
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: record was the hottest with the airplane everything, I think

953
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 1: there were um, six weeks we couldn't get a record pressed.

954
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 1: We had no records and in fact, Paul Rappaport at

955
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 1: the time. I met with him and he said, I

956
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: think we sold a bit more, but probably we were

957
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,279
Speaker 1: around ten thousand. He said, look, you know, if you

958
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 1: could have gotten record pressed, you probably would have been

959
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:40,879
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand. And you use Rainbow Records at the time. Um,

960
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 1: we use Rainbow. Probably we were using Rainbow at that

961
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:48,720
Speaker 1: time time. Yeah, initially when we were just singles. Initially

962
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 1: it was Monarch who did Atlantic. Now I need to

963
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 1: mention one of the things because of one of your guests,

964
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 1: Lawrence juber Um. Again this was he told us years

965
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 1: later that, um, Paul McCartney was like searching all over

966
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: London trying to come, you know, buy the Temple City

967
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 1: because the orchestra. That's kind of funny. That makes it okay,

968
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 1: So how does it get airplane? You're working in it

969
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 1: or is it all just you know, by luck? You

970
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: know it was by luck, but you know, and so

971
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: I would like send it out to college stations. There

972
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: are a few of the alternatives. I didn't know what

973
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 1: I was doing, but you know, you'd get it was

974
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 1: just let's basically so again back room of the record store,

975
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 1: and there ultimately was an album in addition to the

976
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 1: EP Right, Um, no, only the now when you're putting

977
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 1: out these records, you're working in the store. Richard owns

978
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 1: the store. Was Richard making any money owning the record store? Um?

979
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I mean, um, I don't really know. Um.

980
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 1: I mean I would make the bank deposits and stuff

981
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: that I never knew the the P and L and

982
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,920
Speaker 1: how that might have worked. But um but at the

983
00:57:55,080 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 1: end of um, um, so, our sales were nine thousand

984
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: of for the for the the Rhino Records product. Now

985
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 1: that's not profit, that's sale. Of course, was there any profit? Um,

986
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 1: well yeah, but we just put it back into it.

987
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 1: But anyway, the point I want to make is so

988
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 1: because this is more fun than doing retail, which Richard

989
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 1: was tired of. At the end of he sold the store.

990
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: Oh right, I forgot completely about it. And then when

991
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: the two of us went as partners in a different location,

992
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 1: right right, Okay, but he sold the store seventy eight

993
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 1: you'd already moved to Santa Monica Boulevard and back before

994
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 1: he sold it, right, Um, yes, Because what happened was

995
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 1: the woman who owned the original location, she got talked

996
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 1: into Oh you know, let's knock it down, let's put

997
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: a new building and get a lot more for rent.

998
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 1: So we were in a you know, temporary space for

999
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 1: a year and a half and then we moved back. Okay.

1000
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 1: So when he sold it and didn't he buy it

1001
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 1: back ultimately, well, he and I brought back into it. Um,

1002
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 1: But that was you know, much later, and was the

1003
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: motivation to buy back into it. Well, you know, we

1004
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: were already in our deal um with Atlantic Records at

1005
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 1: that point, and I think you wanted to get back

1006
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 1: to his roots. Okay. So now the year that you

1007
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 1: go and he sells the store is seventy eight. Yeah,

1008
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 1: but the last the end of seventy eight, seventy eight.

1009
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: Where's your first office? Um, it's on pico Um just

1010
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: east of Barrington, Okay, and it's just the two of you.

1011
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 1: I'm okay. Uh. He also had a small wholesale business

1012
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 1: doing cutouts. So it's just the two of us and

1013
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 1: one guy who was there before for the host of business.

1014
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 1: Who was who shipped? One guy who shipped? Okay, wait

1015
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 1: a second, this was not the warehouse, no, okay, I'm

1016
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: trying to remember the warehouse where Bob whatever had had

1017
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 1: also had his office shared space. Um yes, um yes,

1018
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 1: Bob Marin Okay, was that but this that was not

1019
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 1: the first. That was the second, right you probably well

1020
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 1: let me take your second. Um. I think we were

1021
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: in the Pico I think maybe two three, and then

1022
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 1: we moved to um Olympic right next to the d

1023
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 1: m V. Okay, no, no, that was that was much.

1024
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 1: That was that was later in terms of cash to

1025
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 1: run it. And were you taking a salary? Um? Yes,

1026
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 1: um once we moved to Pico, well, I mean I

1027
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: was taking a salary as a store manager, and once

1028
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: we moved to Pico, um, I was taking salary, but

1029
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:50,440
Speaker 1: initially came out of the wholesale side. So the wholesale

1030
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: side was keeping it afloat. But I really wasn't doing

1031
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: anything or very much on the wholesale side. It was

1032
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 1: more yeah, but it was bringing in revenue, right, so

1033
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 1: I was so until the record label could pay me.

1034
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 1: Initially it was so then you're you're gonna make a

1035
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 1: go of it. What do you do next? Well? Um okay?

1036
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 1: So um the first air three areas we love the

1037
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:18,920
Speaker 1: novelty um. I had licensed some unreleased Turtles tracks for

1038
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 1: Turtles Picture Disc, so that kind of got our feet wet.

1039
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 1: They had already finished their lawsuit with White Whale and

1040
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: they owned them at that point. Yes, UM, and so

1041
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 1: we started and then UM and then new artists. So

1042
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 1: those were the purview. And what happened was we love

1043
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 1: UM promoting the better new artists. And we can talk

1044
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 1: about the New Cats and Freddie Moore later, but UM,

1045
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 1: the problem. I was really disappointed that like local radio

1046
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't support him, K Rock wouldn't play it. You don't

1047
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: get the airplay. You know, other than a certain number

1048
01:01:55,680 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 1: of fans, you're not gonna sell records. And was very

1049
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 1: disheartening to know that we couldn't really help these new

1050
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 1: artists that much. Again, same thing with the airplay, with

1051
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 1: the novelty stuff that k Rocket tightened up, and um,

1052
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 1: they were no longer playing like the Temple City Case Orchestra,

1053
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 1: that type of thing. And UM, so we hit upon

1054
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,919
Speaker 1: reissues and slowly if we figured out, okay, that's what's

1055
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 1: gonna do it now. At the same time, by the way,

1056
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 1: I should mention that, UM, a lot of this is

1057
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 1: in the Rhino Record Story, which is a book that

1058
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: came out a few years ago. You're available, Yes, that

1059
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:38,840
Speaker 1: I wrote so Um, okay, you could identify with this.

1060
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 1: Some of the characteristics of rock and roll was rebellious, nous,

1061
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 1: anti establishment behavior, and that infused us not only in

1062
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 1: the pre Rhino days, but as we did things in Rhino.

1063
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 1: So a lot of things were done for kind of

1064
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 1: mis gievous or subversive reasons. So um, Keith Richards, Ronnie

1065
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 1: Wood after Rolling Stones tour, they're on tour as the

1066
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 1: New Barbarians. Hey, they don't have a record out. Okay,

1067
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 1: there was a Uh. I wouldn't say that they were

1068
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 1: really a punk band, but there was a band that

1069
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 1: Doug Morris produced called the Barbarians who were in the

1070
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 1: Tammy Show, like the only unknown group in the Tammy Show.

1071
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 1: And there's a cut on the original Nuggets album which

1072
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:29,920
Speaker 1: came out in two I said, hey, let's license uh,

1073
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 1: you know, the Barbarians. Maybe some people will get confused

1074
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 1: and by our record, which didn't really happen. But so

1075
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: that was Lorie Records, which um Dian and the Belmonts

1076
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 1: during the Pacemakers anyway, license it from them, but the

1077
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 1: package is not a serious package because I don't really

1078
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: think the Barbarians were very good. So what can we do?

1079
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 1: So I made up these uh um, overly glowing liner

1080
01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:59,440
Speaker 1: notes that I wrote, and I called up my pal

1081
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: Peter and Noon and I said, okay, if a person

1082
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 1: from Luxembourg, you know, what would their name be? And

1083
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,200
Speaker 1: he gave me like a name and I put like

1084
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 1: from a luck the Barbarians fan club from Luxembourg. So

1085
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 1: I mean what I'm saying is, you know, if you

1086
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 1: kind of like read between the lines, even though it

1087
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:19,440
Speaker 1: was you know, the original recordings, you could kind of

1088
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:21,240
Speaker 1: see that we were, you know, having fun with this.

1089
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 1: So sometimes we would do stuff like that. Not always

1090
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 1: did people get the joke. Okay, did that album sell? Um?

1091
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:32,360
Speaker 1: It made money? I can't remember what it sold, Okay,

1092
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:34,560
Speaker 1: so maybe it did, like four or five thousand. Okay,

1093
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 1: how much would it calls you to license something like

1094
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 1: that back then? Well, um, okay, let me give you uh,

1095
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 1: let me give you this. UM. The first couple albums

1096
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 1: that we licensed from Warner Special Products, who did the

1097
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 1: licensing for Warner Elector Atlantic um Our first Best of

1098
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 1: Alan Sherman, First Rock and Roll Best of, Best of

1099
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 1: Love of the Way. They would calculate it is um

1100
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:09,520
Speaker 1: based on sales of five thousand. Well, you know, they

1101
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 1: made an advance based on that, so it's probably me

1102
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 1: a little bit under three thousand dollars. And then of

1103
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 1: course we paid royalties on subsequent sales. So okay, you're

1104
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 1: doing a best of Alan Sherman. The first payment would

1105
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:25,320
Speaker 1: be three thousand dollars to us. Okay. As the business

1106
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 1: went on, before you made your deal with Capital for distribution,

1107
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 1: did those costs go up um on rare occasion, yes,

1108
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 1: mostly no, it would be mostly based on five thousand

1109
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 1: um so like you did. I remember one of your albums.

1110
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 1: I bought Best of the Love and Spoonful that was

1111
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 1: calculated like on five thousand records. That probably was Yeah,

1112
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you one uh uh one exception. So

1113
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 1: when um, Howard Kyle and Mark Voman got the rights

1114
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 1: back on the Turtle Can. By the way, um Um,

1115
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 1: they were from Westchester. They're three years older than me,

1116
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 1: so I didn't really know them, but I was friendly

1117
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 1: with um um some of the younger brothers in the Turtles,

1118
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: Um and um. At a certain point I saw the

1119
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 1: mothers of invention with uh Klin and Vollman. You said,

1120
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 1: he are you kidding? Yes, uh Billy the Mountain. This

1121
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 1: was Polly Pavilion that, you know, because that was a

1122
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 1: live version. Was that recorded there? Just another band from

1123
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:41,520
Speaker 1: l Yes, so I love the show. I thought they

1124
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 1: were great. And then I thought, oh, you know what,

1125
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:48,640
Speaker 1: let me call Frank's Apple's manager management office, Herb Cohen,

1126
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 1: and I left a message for Howard Klin because I

1127
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:55,439
Speaker 1: thought it'd be you know, interesting, you know, to write

1128
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:57,840
Speaker 1: an article to transition from going from the Turtles to

1129
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:01,320
Speaker 1: the Mothers, from a m pop clean to you know,

1130
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 1: talking about you know, mud sharks and you know groupies.

1131
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 1: Um so yeah, I interviewed, uh Howard and great interview. Um.

1132
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 1: I wrote it up for Rolling Stone and um Jan

1133
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 1: Winner loved it, he wrote on my page stub he wrote,

1134
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 1: like great story. Um. Later on I found out that

1135
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 1: he'd actually had been a Turtles fan younger. So anyways,

1136
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 1: so what I'm saying is there was some familiarity with me.

1137
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 1: I would go see there, you know, flowing Eddie the knack.

1138
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 1: Occasionally I would you know, write up an article in there.

1139
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:38,960
Speaker 1: So there was familiarity with me. They liked me, and

1140
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:42,200
Speaker 1: you know, I was, you know, loosely in a broad spectrum,

1141
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:47,720
Speaker 1: you know, part of their uh they're uh a Saturn ring. So, um,

1142
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 1: they liked the picture this, they like how that turned out. Um,

1143
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 1: we paid him on subsequent so then we uh licensed

1144
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: um the first album you Ain't Me, Ain't Me Babe,

1145
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 1: and they owned it when that did well, and that

1146
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:04,960
Speaker 1: was so then they said, hey, how would you like

1147
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:09,040
Speaker 1: to license our best of? So they had done a

1148
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 1: double album that they had licensed to Sire Records, and

1149
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was a three year deal

1150
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:16,160
Speaker 1: or a five year deal, but that was kind of

1151
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 1: come to fruition. So, um, I remember this because it

1152
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:22,600
Speaker 1: was a lot of money for us. We made a

1153
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:28,240
Speaker 1: deal for Turtle's greatest hits and their original albums and

1154
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:33,720
Speaker 1: it was for fifteen thousand dollars where she was outrageous,

1155
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 1: and I remember Mark Vohman like comforting me, comforting me

1156
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 1: and saying, you know what, you know, you're gonna come out.

1157
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 1: You're gonna come out really good on this. Okay. No,

1158
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:44,479
Speaker 1: you know, because I remember when all this went out,

1159
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 1: they didn't have any offers from majors. Why did they

1160
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 1: go with you A I didn't know whether they did

1161
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 1: or whether they didn't, but I paid them. You know,

1162
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 1: it wasn't just the advance it was regular royalties, and

1163
01:08:56,760 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 1: you know they liked so okay. So with Rhino, for

1164
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:02,960
Speaker 1: Richard and myself, it was like growing up with this music.

1165
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 1: This is important to us. So when we reissued it,

1166
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:10,560
Speaker 1: it was let's put quality into it. Let's make it

1167
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:13,280
Speaker 1: sound better than it ever has been sounded. If it's possible,

1168
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:18,080
Speaker 1: let's track down rare photos, let's get um really good

1169
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 1: liner notes. So I think they also appreciated that that

1170
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:28,680
Speaker 1: this was like quality stuff. Okay, but those were successful, correct, Um, yes,

1171
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 1: what's well? First of all, um, the first album, that

1172
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:36,120
Speaker 1: Ain't Me Babe album actually did much better that I

1173
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 1: would have thought. It's so much better than the others.

1174
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:41,120
Speaker 1: I think maybe it like did around ten thousand, which

1175
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:43,880
Speaker 1: is pretty good for for us, and then the others,

1176
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:48,240
Speaker 1: in varying degrees were um less than five thousand. But

1177
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 1: the you know, greatest hits did great okay. So the

1178
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 1: Turtles really put you on the map in terms of

1179
01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 1: the country at large. So what was the step after

1180
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 1: the Turtles? Okay? Well, uh, Strategically, in our first two

1181
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:07,679
Speaker 1: years seventy seventy nine, we put out about nine albums

1182
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 1: each and the first year nine albums or E N

1183
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 1: or EPs each year, and the first year we probably

1184
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:18,519
Speaker 1: made money on the ninety thousand, and the second year

1185
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:23,599
Speaker 1: on the hundred and twenty seven thousand dollars, we lost

1186
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:27,800
Speaker 1: money because we put more money into our product. And

1187
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:32,240
Speaker 1: then it occurred to me, I thought, okay, we need

1188
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 1: to put out more albums, thinking that if we're if

1189
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:37,960
Speaker 1: we can make money on most of them. So the

1190
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 1: next two years we did eighteen albums apiece and that

1191
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 1: you know, worked and problems we how much were reissued,

1192
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:53,200
Speaker 1: how much were acts? What's really hard to say. Um, um,

1193
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe half or more reissues. And Okay

1194
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:00,519
Speaker 1: at that point, where the new artist making you any

1195
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:04,439
Speaker 1: money for the most part, no, And it was, like

1196
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:08,479
Speaker 1: I said, very dispiriting. It was the new Cats, the

1197
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:12,680
Speaker 1: pop the Naughty Sweeties. Um. A little bit later, Um

1198
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 1: the Twisters who were like the Beatles of the South day. Uh,

1199
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:21,599
Speaker 1: they made money for us. But there's a Twister story. Mark.

1200
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:27,040
Speaker 1: I was looking for bandit produce. Mark Vollman recommended the Twisters,

1201
01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:30,840
Speaker 1: Paul Wexler, Jerry's sign and I cut some stuff. They

1202
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:34,280
Speaker 1: ended up on compilation records, but um, somebody else did

1203
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 1: um uh e p And because they had sexually big

1204
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:44,639
Speaker 1: following they had these new managers who were I don't

1205
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 1: really need it to say much about them other than

1206
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 1: they were they didn't really know what they were doing

1207
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 1: and they wanted to get them a major label deal.

1208
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:53,639
Speaker 1: So when but because the Twisters liked me and everything

1209
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:56,160
Speaker 1: I've done for them, we made a deal to only

1210
01:11:56,280 --> 01:12:01,719
Speaker 1: be able to sell the EP in cal FORNI. Alright,

1211
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 1: so we put this out. They have a lot of

1212
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 1: fans k Rocks playing in a you know, just a

1213
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 1: little bit. Um. We end up our first charting record

1214
01:12:10,040 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 1: on the Record World Chart. We're getting calls from all

1215
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:16,200
Speaker 1: of our distributors. Hey, what is this congratulations, Hey we

1216
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:19,120
Speaker 1: want this record, cancel it to you. It was like,

1217
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:21,320
Speaker 1: you know, Um. One of the things when I interviewed

1218
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 1: Mickey Most when I went over to England. Um, he said,

1219
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:28,720
Speaker 1: when you have momentum as an artist, you go with

1220
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 1: it because you never know when it's gonna end. And

1221
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 1: that ended that day and there for the Twisters and

1222
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:42,080
Speaker 1: what came after the Twisters? Um you mean as far

1223
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:46,880
Speaker 1: as other products, Um, Well, like I said, I mentioned

1224
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:49,400
Speaker 1: those other artists. Um, for the most part, we still

1225
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 1: kind of um here and there tried to, you know,

1226
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:56,240
Speaker 1: help out and do a new artist here or there.

1227
01:12:56,320 --> 01:13:01,599
Speaker 1: But it was we diminished it and usually we lost money. Okay,

1228
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:06,720
Speaker 1: what year was the capital distribution distribution deal? Okay? Um,

1229
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:11,439
Speaker 1: that was too effect October Okay, So the question is

1230
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 1: when did you as a company gay momentum? What was

1231
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:17,680
Speaker 1: the turning point for you? Okay, I'm gonna tell you

1232
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:21,280
Speaker 1: kind of what led up to that? Um we had

1233
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:24,799
Speaker 1: this new record. Uh, there was an artist are College

1234
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 1: reup in San Diego found called the beat Farmers who

1235
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:32,559
Speaker 1: were kind of like UM the Blasters UM. We gave

1236
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:35,719
Speaker 1: them a budget. Steve Berlin produced it. He went over budget.

1237
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:37,640
Speaker 1: We gave him a budget of five thousand dollars. He

1238
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:41,599
Speaker 1: came in at six thousand. Anyway, they were going out

1239
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:46,880
Speaker 1: on tour with the Blasters UM in Colorado. They were

1240
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:52,160
Speaker 1: doing better than the Blasters UM our distributor. The problem

1241
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:54,439
Speaker 1: is sometimes these distributors we had to put them on

1242
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 1: hold to try to get our money because so our

1243
01:13:57,400 --> 01:14:01,360
Speaker 1: distributor in Colorado UM hadn't paid us in four months.

1244
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:06,280
Speaker 1: So one of the problems was how do you mean

1245
01:14:06,439 --> 01:14:08,080
Speaker 1: you know when you have a series. At that point,

1246
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:10,599
Speaker 1: I remember if we had like eight distributors throughout the country.

1247
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:14,479
Speaker 1: But if you don't have a unified network, how do

1248
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:17,040
Speaker 1: you take advantage when something like this happened. So that

1249
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 1: was kind of plan of the seed um and then

1250
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:23,960
Speaker 1: um step two was you know a lot of times

1251
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:26,840
Speaker 1: people in their record business executives, they take credit for things.

1252
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:30,240
Speaker 1: Of course, all right, so here's how the whole capital

1253
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:34,040
Speaker 1: thing happened. No, No, the question is before capital, Okay,

1254
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:37,800
Speaker 1: was it were you? It's seen from the outside you

1255
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:41,839
Speaker 1: were making money, definitely making money, okay, yeah, more reissues

1256
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:44,080
Speaker 1: and you know, I seemed like you were making significant money.

1257
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 1: You had it was a real thing. Was that not

1258
01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:48,320
Speaker 1: the case? It seemed to me that you went to

1259
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:52,280
Speaker 1: Capital because of those issues as opposed to boost your

1260
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:55,519
Speaker 1: you know, rescue you well, I think it was maybe

1261
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:58,840
Speaker 1: in the year or two prior to that where we

1262
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 1: had to take out a loan for the first time.

1263
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:03,519
Speaker 1: And the reason wasn't that, you know, the books didn't

1264
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:06,120
Speaker 1: look good as because when they're stringing you out, you know,

1265
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:09,640
Speaker 1: three or four months, and you know, I was, you know,

1266
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:14,760
Speaker 1: not only um bothered by the fact that you know,

1267
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:17,240
Speaker 1: they were stringing us out. Okay, so you make the

1268
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:21,320
Speaker 1: deal with Capital does that turbo charge the company? First

1269
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:23,080
Speaker 1: of all, the good thing, yes, the good thing is

1270
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:27,920
Speaker 1: um it was. I think the deal was something like Capital,

1271
01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:31,519
Speaker 1: we're always going to pay us no more, no more

1272
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 1: than sixty days. But if they paid us in less

1273
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:41,080
Speaker 1: than thirty days, they could take two off of the joys.

1274
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:43,320
Speaker 1: I think I think that's what it was. Maybe maybe

1275
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:45,280
Speaker 1: it was less than sixty whatever it was, But the

1276
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:48,320
Speaker 1: point is every month we got a check, you could

1277
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:51,040
Speaker 1: plan on the check, you could build your business. So

1278
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:55,640
Speaker 1: that was so important. Then distribution wise, you know as

1279
01:15:55,800 --> 01:16:00,360
Speaker 1: unified national distribution. So we were in a position to

1280
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:03,360
Speaker 1: sell a lot more records at that point too. Okay,

1281
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:07,840
Speaker 1: to what degree did your license capital? EMI? Product? Very

1282
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:16,880
Speaker 1: good question, Um. Capital were slow, but ultimately UM, they did.

1283
01:16:17,120 --> 01:16:19,599
Speaker 1: And one of the significant things that they were kind

1284
01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:22,800
Speaker 1: of reluctant, but they did. UM. I put together a

1285
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:26,840
Speaker 1: series of the best of the British Invasion because it

1286
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:28,760
Speaker 1: really it was a real passion of mine and still

1287
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 1: is a passion of mine, and also relates to UH

1288
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:34,840
Speaker 1: the book that I published. It was published two years ago,

1289
01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:38,519
Speaker 1: so UM, a lot of that was UH material that

1290
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:42,920
Speaker 1: Capital owned. UM. When you think about Billy J. Kramer

1291
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:47,960
Speaker 1: and Dakota's jarring the Pacemakers. By the way, obviously you know,

1292
01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 1: no Beatles from Capital. You know, they had a part

1293
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:53,360
Speaker 1: of the Hollies, and you know we had other licensing

1294
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:58,160
Speaker 1: deals in place, the Kings and the Yardbirds, um so um.

1295
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:03,720
Speaker 1: And it I'm leading to a point. So after our

1296
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:06,960
Speaker 1: three year deal, we were happy with Capital, they were

1297
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:11,800
Speaker 1: happy with us. We were exceeding projections. So we had

1298
01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:16,400
Speaker 1: three stipulations when we renewed. One was we wanted to

1299
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:19,760
Speaker 1: get more catalog from them that they've been reluctant to

1300
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:23,360
Speaker 1: give us. Now, this wasn't premo stuff like the Beach Boys.

1301
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:26,760
Speaker 1: This is like the Raspberries or the Class of Four.

1302
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:29,560
Speaker 1: And in the contract it had these you know, I

1303
01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:31,360
Speaker 1: don't know if it was like six or eight artists

1304
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:34,240
Speaker 1: that we were supposed to put out. So as we

1305
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:38,760
Speaker 1: were in along with the deal, um, we never got it.

1306
01:17:39,479 --> 01:17:45,000
Speaker 1: They breached our agreement on three different levels, including us

1307
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:48,120
Speaker 1: giving the stuff because you know, their reissue little departments

1308
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 1: that we want to put it out. And you know,

1309
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:53,240
Speaker 1: I just thought it was just so shortsighted because again

1310
01:17:53,280 --> 01:17:56,640
Speaker 1: we were doing well, we were exceeding projection. Let me

1311
01:17:56,680 --> 01:18:00,320
Speaker 1: give you an idea um Heart in their hey day

1312
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:05,280
Speaker 1: uh at Capital. Um, I can't remember if there were

1313
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:08,160
Speaker 1: still two or three million albums a cop, I don't know.

1314
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:12,080
Speaker 1: But anyway, we were making for Capital about what Heart

1315
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:15,200
Speaker 1: was making for them. Now, if we were hard, you

1316
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:17,680
Speaker 1: would be like, you know, playing so nice to us,

1317
01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:19,760
Speaker 1: what we do for you guys, let's take you out

1318
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:22,920
Speaker 1: whatever it is. And here it's sort of like, you know,

1319
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:26,880
Speaker 1: the opposite. So that's why ultimately, uh, and kind of

1320
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:30,840
Speaker 1: through a boomerang effect, we ended up uh you know,

1321
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:35,160
Speaker 1: making distribution deal with somebody else in this case to Atlantic. Okay,

1322
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:37,639
Speaker 1: at what point did you sell some of the company

1323
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:43,080
Speaker 1: to Atlantic? Okay? Um, here's the Atlantic story again because

1324
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:49,520
Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting. Um, we were offered um to Atlantic.

1325
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:53,040
Speaker 1: This make sure we were offered to you'd come in

1326
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:57,080
Speaker 1: through the Warner Music group. Bob mcgatto. Now Bob mccatto

1327
01:18:57,200 --> 01:19:00,360
Speaker 1: wasn't a music guy. Um. He was a speed striter

1328
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 1: for New York Governor Hugh Carey, so he didn't you know,

1329
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:04,879
Speaker 1: we dealt with a lot of these people who inherently

1330
01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:08,479
Speaker 1: didn't really have a feel or understanding or let alone

1331
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:10,720
Speaker 1: a lover or appreciation for all the great stuff we

1332
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 1: were doing. He turned us down. Then at some point, um,

1333
01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:19,400
Speaker 1: he was offered Fantasy was in play. Okay, if we

1334
01:19:19,479 --> 01:19:21,760
Speaker 1: buy Fantasy Records, what do we do with it? Who

1335
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:25,479
Speaker 1: do we get to run it? Then the lawyer said, um, oh,

1336
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:27,479
Speaker 1: you know Rhino's looking for a deal. You know you

1337
01:19:27,479 --> 01:19:29,479
Speaker 1: can get Ryano want you buy you know, Ryan, make

1338
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:31,600
Speaker 1: a deal with Rhino. So that's kind of how we

1339
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:37,880
Speaker 1: came into it. Now, Um, in order to make a deal,

1340
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:40,639
Speaker 1: you have to be affiliated with one of those major,

1341
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:45,559
Speaker 1: the three major labels. So Atlanta, headed by Doug Morris,

1342
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:48,840
Speaker 1: wasn't doing that well. Now was made better sense for

1343
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:51,200
Speaker 1: us to be aligned with Warner Brothers out here in

1344
01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:54,320
Speaker 1: mo Auston because we were l a based. But there

1345
01:19:54,360 --> 01:19:58,160
Speaker 1: was animosity between Mrgato and Mo Austin. So he went

1346
01:19:58,280 --> 01:20:00,479
Speaker 1: to Doug Morris and he said, look, we will make

1347
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:02,559
Speaker 1: this deal. And Doug goes, look, you know, I don't

1348
01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:05,639
Speaker 1: know you know anything about it. And so Marcato said

1349
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:08,920
Speaker 1: to Morris, look, if they lose money, will take it

1350
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:12,040
Speaker 1: off your books and onto our books. Don't worry about it.

1351
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:14,519
Speaker 1: So again, you know, it wasn't like anybody seeing this

1352
01:20:14,640 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 1: glowing vision and m so um uh. You know that's

1353
01:20:21,960 --> 01:20:24,840
Speaker 1: how we you know, had to look elsewhere from Okay,

1354
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:28,000
Speaker 1: at what point from but it was instantly successful. What

1355
01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:30,559
Speaker 1: point did you sell them part of the business? Okay?

1356
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:35,600
Speaker 1: So um at a certain point. So basically it was

1357
01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:44,280
Speaker 1: a joint venture um and at a certain point um uh,

1358
01:20:44,720 --> 01:20:46,800
Speaker 1: in order for them to be a little bit more

1359
01:20:46,920 --> 01:20:49,880
Speaker 1: cooperative on some of the other Atlantic stuff you know

1360
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:51,839
Speaker 1: that we didn't have, by the way, in our contract

1361
01:20:51,880 --> 01:20:56,200
Speaker 1: we had Okay, these are the artists that are um okay,

1362
01:20:56,280 --> 01:20:58,519
Speaker 1: so the joint venture. Here's the artist that we're going

1363
01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:00,600
Speaker 1: to be in control with the Frank and you know,

1364
01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:03,559
Speaker 1: the RAS goes a lot of these, but not Crosby, Stills,

1365
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:07,400
Speaker 1: Nash or you know, some of the more high profile ones.

1366
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:12,240
Speaker 1: So um at a certain point, um. You know. By

1367
01:21:12,280 --> 01:21:14,160
Speaker 1: the way, we ended up having a really good relationship

1368
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:16,599
Speaker 1: with Doug and then he got fired and then they

1369
01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:18,680
Speaker 1: brought it with Michael Fuchs, who you know, came from

1370
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:21,360
Speaker 1: HBO and who was this guy And then took a

1371
01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:23,120
Speaker 1: little while, but then he beat He was a fast study.

1372
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:25,960
Speaker 1: At a certain point he was championing Rhino. We had

1373
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:29,400
Speaker 1: this big blowout meeting that he scheduled that Warner Brothers

1374
01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:31,920
Speaker 1: with rust Thyrette saying, look, these guys are doing a

1375
01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:34,080
Speaker 1: great job. They do much better than you. You know,

1376
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:36,960
Speaker 1: nobody buys a Warner Brothers record. People buy. He was

1377
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:40,360
Speaker 1: rust Thyrette was zeeing his heels and he wasn't giving

1378
01:21:40,479 --> 01:21:43,320
Speaker 1: us the stuff we wanted. And then before that could

1379
01:21:43,320 --> 01:21:46,240
Speaker 1: be resolved, like I know, two three weeks later, then

1380
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:49,000
Speaker 1: you know, Fuchs was fired. So then in order to

1381
01:21:49,040 --> 01:21:52,840
Speaker 1: get stability the two film guys Terry Simuel and Bob Daily,

1382
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:55,840
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, let us take this over. We'll

1383
01:21:56,040 --> 01:21:59,160
Speaker 1: stabilize it. Now. Again, these guys knew nothing about the

1384
01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:03,479
Speaker 1: music business. So we had meetings with them. You know,

1385
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:07,919
Speaker 1: the relationship was fine, but according to their limited purview,

1386
01:22:09,160 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 1: in order to um for us to get access to

1387
01:22:13,640 --> 01:22:19,800
Speaker 1: Atlantic excuse me, pardon me, um Elektra and Warners, it

1388
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:21,800
Speaker 1: was like, we have to have a deal in place

1389
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:24,679
Speaker 1: where the other fifty percent, you know, the joint venture,

1390
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:27,640
Speaker 1: the other over a certain period becomes part of the

1391
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:30,679
Speaker 1: Warner Music Group. So again it's not something we would

1392
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:34,040
Speaker 1: have preferred. But again, um, you know, it wasn't a

1393
01:22:34,120 --> 01:22:36,560
Speaker 1: bad deal on paper whatever, but we weren't thinking that

1394
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:38,960
Speaker 1: It was just more like, you know, we want access

1395
01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:42,160
Speaker 1: to these great artists, you know, that are being neglected.

1396
01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:47,519
Speaker 1: So that deal was made before Aims came on board. Yes, okay,

1397
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:50,679
Speaker 1: Now Doug got fired, he went over to universally started

1398
01:22:50,720 --> 01:22:53,200
Speaker 1: a company called Hippo. How did you feel about that?

1399
01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:57,040
Speaker 1: We were so piste off at that because obviously, if

1400
01:22:57,080 --> 01:23:00,639
Speaker 1: you're gonna start a reissue label, you're not gonna call

1401
01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:05,960
Speaker 1: it hippo, are you? And u? Uh we you know

1402
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:08,280
Speaker 1: we placed to call him now. I think we spoke

1403
01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:10,479
Speaker 1: to Mel de Winter, who was you know something. We

1404
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:13,040
Speaker 1: had a great relationship with Mel and we we like

1405
01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:17,080
Speaker 1: Doug when he was in Atlantic and um, but we

1406
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 1: tried to appeal to him. He wouldn't do it. Um.

1407
01:23:21,280 --> 01:23:23,000
Speaker 1: It was meaning like there was no reason why it

1408
01:23:23,120 --> 01:23:25,680
Speaker 1: needed to be hippo unless you're kind of trading off

1409
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:29,719
Speaker 1: of like a Ryan Osterris looks like a hipponymous. Okay.

1410
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:32,680
Speaker 1: And then you also in the interim, you had a

1411
01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:36,640
Speaker 1: success with Billy Vera. His album was on Alpha and

1412
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:39,080
Speaker 1: It's Stiffed and the company went out of business. You

1413
01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:41,680
Speaker 1: licensed it and it was a hit. Now it was

1414
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:44,800
Speaker 1: purely because at this moment was used on TV or

1415
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:49,559
Speaker 1: did you facilitate that? Um? Okay, the Alpha record. Alpha

1416
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:52,680
Speaker 1: was a Japanese company and they wanted to establish um

1417
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:57,000
Speaker 1: Um in the US and in Los Angeles. So um

1418
01:23:57,080 --> 01:24:02,880
Speaker 1: that was originally original release one. So um Billy and

1419
01:24:03,200 --> 01:24:07,200
Speaker 1: the Beaters played around. Richard used to see him, and

1420
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:13,080
Speaker 1: um Billy said to uh, Richard, look, you know we

1421
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:16,000
Speaker 1: have a following, we have this record. Why don't you

1422
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:19,200
Speaker 1: put it out? And you know we'll have enough fans.

1423
01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:20,880
Speaker 1: I'm sure you could sell at least you know, four

1424
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:25,320
Speaker 1: or five thousand copies, you know, to cover yourself. Uh.

1425
01:24:25,400 --> 01:24:30,160
Speaker 1: And then he also mentioned about at this moment okay,

1426
01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:33,640
Speaker 1: originally at this moment as a single, I think originally

1427
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:36,719
Speaker 1: I think he got up to maybe no higher than seventy.

1428
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:39,320
Speaker 1: So it's a stiff So yeah, they used it in

1429
01:24:39,439 --> 01:24:43,599
Speaker 1: family ties UM. So again this is six. So Richard said, okay, yeah,

1430
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:46,519
Speaker 1: we'll do it, and he turned it over to UM

1431
01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:50,120
Speaker 1: Gary Stewart, who was head of A and R, basically saying, okay,

1432
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:52,960
Speaker 1: there's the two albums, the studio album, a live album,

1433
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:55,519
Speaker 1: take the best stuff. We'll put it out. So that

1434
01:24:55,680 --> 01:25:03,160
Speaker 1: came out um UM in the fall of eighty six

1435
01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:09,240
Speaker 1: and unbeknownst to anybody, Family Ties used it in an episode.

1436
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:13,080
Speaker 1: It was kind of like, um, it was kind of

1437
01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:17,840
Speaker 1: the love theme Michael J. Fox's character and the woman

1438
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:20,760
Speaker 1: he married who was on the show, and then they

1439
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:24,439
Speaker 1: played at the week following and NBC started getting lots

1440
01:25:24,479 --> 01:25:27,800
Speaker 1: of these phone calls and that was really the whole

1441
01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 1: reason why it became the success. And initially it was

1442
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:38,560
Speaker 1: just only worked in house and in fact, um in January,

1443
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:44,720
Speaker 1: I was at Medem, um, you know, representing Rhino and

1444
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:50,120
Speaker 1: Nyken deals and um like, it went to number one

1445
01:25:50,160 --> 01:25:52,719
Speaker 1: while I was in medem and sort of like, when's

1446
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:54,880
Speaker 1: the when's the last time? If if there was ever

1447
01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:58,000
Speaker 1: a time when somebody was at Medem with the number

1448
01:25:58,040 --> 01:26:02,200
Speaker 1: one record and of the deals I made uh with

1449
01:26:02,360 --> 01:26:06,080
Speaker 1: this British company called Fanfare, and the and R guy

1450
01:26:06,160 --> 01:26:10,200
Speaker 1: who loved it was Simon cow Oh really okay, But

1451
01:26:10,439 --> 01:26:15,200
Speaker 1: famously we talked that they gave you a gold record

1452
01:26:15,640 --> 01:26:18,080
Speaker 1: and you told me you were short five thousand or

1453
01:26:18,160 --> 01:26:21,320
Speaker 1: fifty thousand, and you thought about sending the gold record back,

1454
01:26:21,400 --> 01:26:26,200
Speaker 1: saying it really didn't reach that pinnacle. Okay, Here's which

1455
01:26:26,240 --> 01:26:28,839
Speaker 1: I referred to before the kind of the prankster aspect

1456
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:31,519
Speaker 1: about it because you know, as we know, you know,

1457
01:26:31,680 --> 01:26:33,680
Speaker 1: gold record, Really what does it mean? There is the

1458
01:26:33,720 --> 01:26:38,800
Speaker 1: infamous case about uh, the Johnny Carson album on Casablanca,

1459
01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:43,200
Speaker 1: like I was, it was certified platinum and returned double platinum,

1460
01:26:43,280 --> 01:26:45,120
Speaker 1: you know, things like that. So this was like a

1461
01:26:45,280 --> 01:26:52,200
Speaker 1: joke thing. So, um, the album sold over five hundred thousand,

1462
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:57,200
Speaker 1: We got it certified as a gold record. We made

1463
01:26:57,360 --> 01:27:01,439
Speaker 1: we gave a gold record to every employee. But you know,

1464
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:04,320
Speaker 1: as we know in the business, you know, returns months later.

1465
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:07,080
Speaker 1: You know, we were I don't know if we were

1466
01:27:07,240 --> 01:27:09,760
Speaker 1: you know, under by you know, twenty five thousand or whatever.

1467
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:13,439
Speaker 1: It was. So as a joke, Um, I wrote a

1468
01:27:13,560 --> 01:27:16,360
Speaker 1: letter to the R I A basically saying, oh, yeah,

1469
01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:17,960
Speaker 1: you know, we've got a certified goal, but you know

1470
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:20,080
Speaker 1: we should you know, you know, do we need to

1471
01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:23,679
Speaker 1: send you back the gold records? You know, total joke,

1472
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:26,000
Speaker 1: right because you have to have you know, nobody would

1473
01:27:26,040 --> 01:27:27,880
Speaker 1: ever do because you know, such a vanity thing. Hey,

1474
01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:30,880
Speaker 1: I go to old record regardless of what it sold.

1475
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:34,599
Speaker 1: So again the prankster aspect, and I didn't hear anything.

1476
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:36,600
Speaker 1: After like three weeks, I called the R A and

1477
01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:38,880
Speaker 1: they said, oh no, you don't have to send back.

1478
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:43,280
Speaker 1: We only certify on what was shipped. So anyway, at

1479
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:46,439
Speaker 1: at a certain point when we moved to a new location,

1480
01:27:46,840 --> 01:27:51,160
Speaker 1: I had a little mini Rhino museum, which again kind

1481
01:27:51,200 --> 01:27:55,559
Speaker 1: of was to you know, satirize other aspects of museums

1482
01:27:55,560 --> 01:27:58,240
Speaker 1: that take themselves so seriously. And I had the Gold

1483
01:27:58,320 --> 01:28:00,800
Speaker 1: Record in there, and also a be of my letter

1484
01:28:01,240 --> 01:28:03,720
Speaker 1: to the R. I A A, Okay, what are you

1485
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:08,120
Speaker 1: most proud of that you did at Rhino Records. Well,

1486
01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:11,840
Speaker 1: I guess you're talking about organization or product. Well you

1487
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:15,160
Speaker 1: can answer both ways. Well, I mean it was a

1488
01:28:15,280 --> 01:28:17,880
Speaker 1: lot that I was proud of. Obviously, we need to

1489
01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:21,559
Speaker 1: have a successful, profitable company in order to make everything

1490
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:24,439
Speaker 1: else work. But we were very humane as a company.

1491
01:28:24,479 --> 01:28:27,800
Speaker 1: I feel really good about that. We treat our employees

1492
01:28:28,360 --> 01:28:33,920
Speaker 1: really well. Um during the Clinton administration, Robert Reich, Secretary

1493
01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:36,800
Speaker 1: of Labor, presented us with the Corporate Citizenship Award, which

1494
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:41,360
Speaker 1: is the only one awarded to entertainment company. So when

1495
01:28:41,439 --> 01:28:43,639
Speaker 1: Richard and I started out, We've never been to business school,

1496
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:46,400
Speaker 1: we didn't know anything. We would read books and Tom

1497
01:28:46,479 --> 01:28:49,320
Speaker 1: Peters in search of excellence. We got a lot of

1498
01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:50,920
Speaker 1: things from him in that book, and one of the

1499
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:55,280
Speaker 1: things is treat your employees as an asset. And that

1500
01:28:55,479 --> 01:28:58,760
Speaker 1: really meant a lot to us. And it's kind of

1501
01:28:58,800 --> 01:29:01,840
Speaker 1: surprising to us through of the years even seeing uh,

1502
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:04,960
Speaker 1: you know, the other Warner labels or the Warner Music

1503
01:29:05,000 --> 01:29:07,479
Speaker 1: Group and Action. You know, that was kind of like

1504
01:29:08,120 --> 01:29:14,559
Speaker 1: that wasn't embraced so um that obviously um at the time.

1505
01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:18,960
Speaker 1: The fact that the industry kicked in gear and focused

1506
01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:23,439
Speaker 1: more on quality reissues owes everything to us, because prior

1507
01:29:23,520 --> 01:29:25,840
Speaker 1: to that, it was more like, you know, let's see

1508
01:29:25,840 --> 01:29:27,960
Speaker 1: if we could squeeze out a few more bucks from

1509
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:30,600
Speaker 1: these old hits, and let's just uh, you know, not

1510
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:34,439
Speaker 1: spend Let's spend the least amount of money possible. So

1511
01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:37,280
Speaker 1: we you know, really upgrading all that. And then also,

1512
01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:39,960
Speaker 1: more importantly than anything, whether it's you know, the books

1513
01:29:40,040 --> 01:29:42,160
Speaker 1: I've written or what we were doing at Rhino, the

1514
01:29:42,320 --> 01:29:44,640
Speaker 1: music is always the most important thing. And all you know,

1515
01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:48,840
Speaker 1: with your newsletter, even the original news letter, the music

1516
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:52,560
Speaker 1: is the most important thing. It could transform you. And

1517
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:54,680
Speaker 1: to us, it was always to make a lot of

1518
01:29:54,760 --> 01:29:58,400
Speaker 1: this stuff available, uh, and in some cases, if it

1519
01:29:58,439 --> 01:30:02,280
Speaker 1: hadn't been available, um before and to make it, you know,

1520
01:30:03,280 --> 01:30:06,760
Speaker 1: uh sound good for either people who never experienced it

1521
01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:09,760
Speaker 1: initially or were vaguely familiar with it, or people who

1522
01:30:09,840 --> 01:30:13,000
Speaker 1: needed to be reminded that you really liked this. Here

1523
01:30:13,080 --> 01:30:15,839
Speaker 1: it is and you're gonna enjoy listening to this. Okay,

1524
01:30:16,280 --> 01:30:20,960
Speaker 1: So your tenure ends at Rano approximately fifteen years ago.

1525
01:30:21,720 --> 01:30:25,320
Speaker 1: At this point in time, are you fine with that?

1526
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:27,600
Speaker 1: Or you think there was something you wanted to do

1527
01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:32,960
Speaker 1: or still want to do before you reach the end? Well? Um,

1528
01:30:34,160 --> 01:30:36,840
Speaker 1: the main problem when I left Rhino wasn't leading Rhino

1529
01:30:36,960 --> 01:30:39,320
Speaker 1: was more like how it handled how it was handled,

1530
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:43,519
Speaker 1: but not to get into that. Um. So for the

1531
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:47,960
Speaker 1: most part, given limitations, I had basically done everything I

1532
01:30:48,120 --> 01:30:51,400
Speaker 1: felt that I could do, you know, given the constraints.

1533
01:30:52,160 --> 01:30:55,559
Speaker 1: Because I uh produced a few films at that point,

1534
01:30:56,360 --> 01:31:00,040
Speaker 1: uh and because I was working on a and you

1535
01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:03,559
Speaker 1: Monkey's TV show with Simon Fuller. There was the uh

1536
01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:07,080
Speaker 1: My Dinner with Jimmy movie, the low budget Howard Kaylin

1537
01:31:07,160 --> 01:31:08,840
Speaker 1: movie that I we were in post production on, so

1538
01:31:08,880 --> 01:31:10,920
Speaker 1: I was kind of involved in that. But I was

1539
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:15,519
Speaker 1: really thinking, um feature film because and ideally what I

1540
01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:18,280
Speaker 1: wanted to do, which is more what we've experienced this year.

1541
01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:21,000
Speaker 1: But I just think if you're in a movie theater

1542
01:31:21,040 --> 01:31:24,880
Speaker 1: and you're hearing really great rock music over these loud speakers,

1543
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:29,559
Speaker 1: it's just a total unique experience. And I thought, here's

1544
01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:33,760
Speaker 1: a way to not only expose people to cattle to

1545
01:31:33,920 --> 01:31:38,360
Speaker 1: the great music, but to sell soundtracks. So that's what

1546
01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:43,480
Speaker 1: ideally wanted to do, but that really didn't happen for me. Well, ultimately,

1547
01:31:43,560 --> 01:31:46,639
Speaker 1: you helped preserve the history of rock and roll, as

1548
01:31:46,720 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 1: you said, with quality. So we all owe a debt

1549
01:31:49,040 --> 01:31:51,639
Speaker 1: to Harold. Thanks so much for being here and tell

1550
01:31:51,640 --> 01:31:53,320
Speaker 1: your story. Thanks. I enjoying it.