1 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with 2 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 3 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety. Today my 4 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: guests are Liz Parker, Brian Besser, Adam Levine, and Adam Weinstein, 5 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: all partners at talent agency VERB. VERV is about to 6 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: market its fifteenth anniversary in business next year, and it's 7 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: been quite a fifteen years for the company, for the 8 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: industry and for the world. And we get into all 9 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: of it, how an independent agency of size stays in business, 10 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: What the end of packaging deals has meant to the 11 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: bottom line, what the pressure on talent deals in the 12 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: overall industry squeeze is doing to the creative community. And 13 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: we don't shy away from the big internal transition that 14 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: happened for VERB last February when founding partner Bill Weinstein 15 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: exited and wound up relocating at Paradigm. It's a candid 16 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: talk with four season deal makers. I was really happy 17 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: to be joined on this interview by Katzy Stephen, Variety's 18 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: film and media reporter, who gamely took on the talent 19 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: agency beat. 20 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 2: For us this year. 21 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: A great discussion about the nitty gritty of making money 22 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: with content is coming up right after this break, and 23 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: we're back with a free, willing conversation about talent representation 24 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: with verb partners Liz Parker, Brian Besser, Adam Levine, and 25 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: Adam Weinstein. Because we have four guests on this episode, 26 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: we'll let the four quickly introduce themselves, and then Katsy 27 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: takes it away with our first question. 28 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Liz Parker. 29 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Adam Weinstein. 30 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 4: Hi, I'm Adam Levin, I'm Brian Besser. 31 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 5: What do you see as the biggest wins of this 32 00:01:58,640 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 5: year that you're proudest of. 33 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 3: One of the ways that you measure up an agency 34 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 3: is through cultural impact and when you look and see 35 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 3: how the work that it's doing, how it permeates through 36 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 3: the consumer world. And it's funny where there was a 37 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 3: Monday morning this summer where I was before the staff meeting, 38 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 3: and I was sitting at my desk and I was 39 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 3: booking a flight to go to New York for the 40 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 3: premiere of our client share on his new TV show 41 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 3: and fight Lin Shay's career has really taken off in 42 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 3: the tip of the cap to our colleagues Chase Northington 43 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 3: and Roberto Markets. He's done an amazing job with him. 44 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 3: And as soon as I hit booked a walk into 45 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 3: the staff meeting which is being led a colleague, Chrissenriega, 46 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 3: and it's Monday morning staff meeting, which is my favorite meeting. 47 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 3: And in the meeting, he kicks it off by saying 48 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 3: it is an awesome, awesome week, and he reminds every 49 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,399 Speaker 3: moment that verb has the number one movie in America, 50 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 3: which is co written by a clients. Well, it's Deadpole 51 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 3: versus Wolverine characters which are created by a client, Robinlie Film. 52 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 3: And we have the number one movie or the number 53 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 3: one TV show in streaming, which is a house of writing. 54 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 3: Our client, Sarah has the number two. She's phenomenal talent. 55 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 3: And then as soon as the staff meeting is over, 56 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 3: I walk back into the offices of our colleagues Manilhamad 57 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 3: and Felish Prince as they're working on creating a record 58 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 3: setting deal for Sarah as the number two to continue 59 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 3: those efforts. So it would just be just feeling that 60 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 3: it made us feel alive that here we were really 61 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 3: stacking up and that our work had great culture of impactors, awesome, 62 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 3: awesome feeling. 63 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 6: It actually is the thesis for her, which is storytelling 64 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 6: can come and live in any direction, on any format, 65 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 6: in any space. And historically people you were a television writer, 66 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 6: you were a feature writer, you wrote books, you had 67 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 6: a label, and what we started the agency the idea 68 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 6: was maybe you could be a storyteller, period and we 69 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 6: could together figure out where the story lives. And it 70 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 6: was a terrifying premise because it's easier to have a 71 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 6: specific direction out of the gate, this is what we're doing, 72 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 6: this is how we're doing it. 73 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 4: We wanted to do it differently because we knew that 74 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:08,839 Speaker 4: our clients wanted. 75 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 6: To tell stories and explore different formats, different platforms, different directions. 76 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 6: So when Bird was born, it was simply a conference 77 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 6: room where we settle our clients. We heard their ideas, 78 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 6: we heard their concepts, and we hear the themes they 79 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 6: wanted to explore and the characters they love, and then 80 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 6: we'd sit there and figure out like where does that live, 81 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 6: Where does that live? Where does that character get to 82 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 6: be explored deeper more extensively than anywhere else, Or maybe 83 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 6: you don't want to do it that way, so maybe 84 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 6: we do it this way. So it was a really fun, 85 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,239 Speaker 6: exciting approach, which was very different from where we came 86 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 6: and it's kind of been the genesis of everything we 87 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 6: do here. 88 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 2: What was it about the marketplace in twenty ten? Which 89 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: seems like an eternity ago, right, My goodness, we were 90 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 2: two years into Obama. 91 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 4: We didn't know how. 92 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 2: Good we have. Uh, I'm going to leave that in. 93 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 2: What was it about the marketplace in twenty ten? That 94 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 2: kind of made you see the emerging world? For that 95 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 2: the writers were going to be you know, I've always 96 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 2: been important, but they were going to be even more 97 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: you know, entrepreneurial, and so much was going to spring 98 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 2: from that. Was there something at that time around the 99 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 2: formation of the agency where you where you could see 100 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 2: things were going? I mean, Hulu was out there, Netflix 101 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 2: was still mostly sending out red envelopes, like what was there? 102 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 2: Was there stuff percolating out there that you saw at 103 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 2: that time? 104 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 6: Absolutely the one of the biggest things that we and remember, 105 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 6: everything is kind of a guess, right, it's an informed opinion, 106 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 6: and you hope you're right, you're not always. 107 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 4: But one of the things that really motivated. 108 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 6: It was the business ever since we were in it 109 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 6: was a movie star driven business. 110 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:56,799 Speaker 4: Right, it was defined by movie stars. 111 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 2: There were movie stars and then there were everything. 112 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 6: Else, exactly the exactly I remember, and our thesis was 113 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 6: a little difference. We were feeling this kind of shift 114 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 6: into a creator economy where the storyteller was starting to 115 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 6: become louder and louder, and when you were talking about 116 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 6: movies or television, you were not talking about the necessarily 117 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 6: the movie star that was driving it, but the person 118 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,679 Speaker 6: behind the camera or the person who put the words 119 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 6: on the page. That was interesting because it was the 120 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 6: first time for us that we had ever started thinking 121 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 6: that way or hearing about it that way. 122 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 4: And that was interesting. 123 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 6: You know, when you grow up, you know outside of 124 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 6: the business you can name movie stars, you can't always 125 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 6: name directors or writers, right, And that was interesting to 126 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 6: us because that's where we started, It's what we love, 127 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 6: and we started thinking about it. 128 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 4: That made sense. 129 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 5: So earlier this year the agency went through really the 130 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 5: biggest transition since it had started, with a founding partner, 131 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 5: Phil Weinstein, departing, and so I'm curious as how that 132 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 5: affected the tone and the culture of the company moving forward, 133 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 5: and how you operated as an agency for the rest 134 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 5: of the year. 135 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 4: We part of ways as it was announced. 136 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 6: We settled ambiqably pretty quickly, and we're really excited about 137 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 6: our mentorship management style that were really focused on, Liz, 138 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 6: you want to talk more about that. 139 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 7: Of course, we went into twenty twenty four knowing we 140 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 7: were going to be focusing on three main buckets, growth, diversification, 141 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 7: and culture. 142 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 4: What does that mean? 143 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 7: Growth was further investment into the businesses we're already in. 144 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 7: Diversification means an expansion of our focus and the business 145 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 7: lines to get into. And culture was how do you 146 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 7: grow a company that's culture driven without losing the culture. 147 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 7: So we realized that if we structured our leadership in 148 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 7: such a way that no one has so many direct 149 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 7: reports that someone gets lost in the woods, we could 150 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 7: double down in our belief that a happy workforce is 151 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 7: an effective workforce and when you bring out the best in. 152 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: Someone, they do their best. Can you level set for 153 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 2: us how many agents? Roughly how many clients? Right now? 154 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 7: We have sixty agents and executives, a lot of clients 155 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 7: and we're looking for more. 156 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 5: You also have an entire executive suite of women across 157 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 5: HR Legal. 158 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 2: Business Affairs comms. How did that come together? 159 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 7: It was one of the most fun recruiting years we've 160 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 7: ever had, knowing that twenty twenty four was going to 161 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 7: be the year let's double down and truly invest in 162 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 7: what does this company look like when it's on a 163 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 7: growth trajectory. And we looked for experts and they happen 164 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 7: to all be women. But we have a new head 165 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 7: of people who might be the most dedicated to culture 166 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 7: I've ever seen. 167 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 2: Name is Elizabeth Jacobs. 168 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,719 Speaker 7: Like me, not from Hollywood, she came from hospitality. We 169 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 7: have a head of we have a general counsel in 170 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 7: Jennifer Jones, who is very familiar with Hollywood but also 171 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 7: things outside the box in such a way that it 172 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 7: keeps us on our most excited toes. We've had a 173 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,479 Speaker 7: finance and Anika Dalton, who definitely didn't come from Hollywood, 174 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 7: and that is for the better because we know how 175 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 7: to count our beans. 176 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 2: She can sniff out that Hollywood accounting, she absolutely can. 177 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 7: But it was really it wasn't on purpose, but it 178 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 7: was deliberate. The way we hire here at any level 179 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 7: is fit matters above all else, and so I don't 180 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 7: know that we've ever hired someone in a vacuum, you know, 181 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 7: where one person meets someone in the world and suddenly 182 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 7: they're an employee. And with this this group of executives, 183 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 7: not only is the company running as smoothly as it's 184 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 7: ever run, but it is a really nice way to 185 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 7: show the company and Hollywood that women in power is 186 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 7: really critical. 187 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 2: For you to really achieve a year of growth in 188 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 2: a year when by any measure, Hollywood had a real downturn. 189 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 2: You know, we all know the reasons coming out of 190 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: the strike, PEAKTV, the bubble finally did. First, how how 191 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 2: have you and your clients been dealing with the downturn 192 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 2: and what have been the kind of what have been 193 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 2: the accelerants that have allowed you to have growth in 194 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 2: a year like this. 195 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 7: I'd love to tackle the philosophical answer to that. Excellent 196 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 7: something that we tell our younger agents I think it 197 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 7: applies to so much is there is an instinct sometimes. 198 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 2: To reach for the low hanging fruit. 199 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 7: That is the jobs that are a plenty, that is 200 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 7: the market that is not yet saturated, that is a 201 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 7: wall street that. 202 00:10:58,040 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 2: Seems to be coming. 203 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 7: We say, instead of the low hanging fruit, reach for 204 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 7: the vine, reach for something within arms, reach that's growing. 205 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 7: The low hanging fruit is about to fall, meaning don't 206 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 7: count on it, don't look at that as. 207 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 2: Your business model. 208 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 7: Look at the nooks and crannies of opportunity that build and. 209 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 2: Build and build, which ties exactly to this idea of 210 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 2: career architecture. 211 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 7: If you are always looking for what's growing, you don't 212 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 7: need to worry about what's not. 213 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 2: You don't need to look at the closed windows. There 214 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 2: are open doors. 215 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 7: And when you have that kind of unbridled optimism, it 216 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,839 Speaker 7: means you can have a staff meeting and what you're 217 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 7: focusing on how hard it is out there, or you 218 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 7: can have a staff meeting focusing on what jobs are 219 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,199 Speaker 7: around and how we can make our clients the very 220 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 7: best candidates for them. 221 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 5: Now, one thing that stands out about VERB is a 222 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 5: really strong focus on animation across film and television. 223 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 2: We're just on We're. 224 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 5: About to approach Sonic, the third film coming out, and 225 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 5: of course other big names like Beyond the Spider Verse. 226 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 5: Why is animation something that VERV has really doubled down on. 227 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 4: Because it's awesome. 228 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 6: Animation was something that captured our imagination and our excitement. 229 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 6: In the early days of Pixar, it was a time 230 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 6: and a place. It was kind of magical place where 231 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 6: stories and characters were being born that we hadn't seen before. 232 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 6: Movies were being made that made us feel differently. They 233 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 6: were they looked differently, they looked different, they felt different, 234 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 6: and most importantly, the writing was so great. 235 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 4: And it just inspired us. Inspired us. 236 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 6: You could watch a cartoon and have it speak to 237 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 6: you about some of the biggest challenges in life, and 238 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 6: you would think about it and you would smile and 239 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 6: you feel this energy. So it started this kind of 240 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 6: curiosity for us, this excitement of venturing into a world 241 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 6: where historically it was very much a closed ecosystem. It 242 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 6: kind of existed and you're either part of it or 243 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 6: your worked. And so once again it was the creators, 244 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 6: the writers and the directors who were really satisfied with 245 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 6: their experiences and animation. We love the animation community so much, 246 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 6: and one of the things that fuels it that is 247 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 6: really unique is that it's a community where everybody supports 248 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 6: each other. 249 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 4: Everybody's rooting for each other. 250 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 6: When you go to a premiere in animation, you sit 251 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 6: in a row with the heads of all the other studios. 252 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 6: That doesn't happen in other mediums and other formats because 253 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 6: they're legitimly rooting for each other. It's a business where 254 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 6: one win is felt by all and it helps create 255 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 6: better business, better opportunity for all of us. 256 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more from 257 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: the four partners after the break, and we're back with 258 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: more from the leaders of Talent Agency or I can 259 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: I ask you about. 260 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 2: The book business in general? You know, the general feeling 261 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 2: is that it's you know that it's it's a bit depressed, 262 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 2: that it's harder. You know, the physical sales are down, 263 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 2: ebooks aren't, as you know, aren't as lucrative for writers. 264 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 2: But I'm hearing you guys are having finding little pockets 265 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 2: of success with with very you know, very very dedicated 266 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 2: things like horror and other things. Can you just kind 267 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 2: of give us a sense of what the book business 268 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 2: where you're seeing the most growth and opportunity there. 269 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 7: Of course, the interesting thing about books is you can 270 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 7: focus on the fluctuations of sales. He already hear, but 271 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 7: if you look at history, they're pretty micro fluctuations. So 272 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 7: another way to look at it is it's a supremely 273 00:14:55,000 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 7: stable business. Why because the actual book, the object that 274 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 7: is the book, that is what is selling. It is 275 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 7: the stories that go inside each individual book. That's what's fluctuating, right, 276 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 7: That's what people are constantly trying to perfect marketing and 277 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 7: publicity and getting the readership. But the existence of books 278 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 7: is incredibly stable because the existence of reading, whether you're 279 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 7: reading a hardcover, a kindle, or you're listening to an audiobook, 280 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 7: is unbelievably stable. It's not going anywhere. Why because just 281 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 7: like Hollywood is storytelling. So then you're looking at trends 282 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 7: and then you're looking at what's working today. What's been 283 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 7: really interesting is over the past ten years, a lot 284 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 7: of these celebrity book clubs have popped up, and those 285 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 7: have suddenly become the fast trained to bestseller status, the 286 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 7: fast trained to adaptations, the fast trained to literary acclaim. 287 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 7: But there's a finite number or celebrity book clubs that 288 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 7: can maintain the momentum needed to be relevant. 289 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 2: So then what happens if you're not chosen? 290 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 7: Okay, twenty twenty entered book talk enter Suddenly this democratized 291 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 7: version of marketing in which anyone can hold up a 292 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 7: book they've loved and people pay attention. 293 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 2: That comes years after. 294 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 7: A lot of very smart authors discovered self publishing was 295 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 7: a perfectly appropriate way to have a lucrative publishing career. 296 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 6: Right. 297 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 7: So book Talk opened up two things. It opened up 298 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 7: a lot of the self publishing market. It also opened 299 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 7: up a lot of the genre. And what we found 300 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,239 Speaker 7: is that increasingly you can have a book get published 301 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 7: that didn't get the accolades of a book club pick 302 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 7: or a Target pick, or an airport pick or all picks, 303 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 7: but that book can still do incredibly well. 304 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 2: An editor friend of mine and I, because we have a. 305 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 7: Number of authors of her who really benefited from this model, 306 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 7: we said, gosh, this feels like two thousand and eight publishing, 307 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 7: you know, back when there was something called a mid list, 308 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 7: which of course has been gone since the books came around. Really, 309 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 7: but we try here because all of our. 310 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 2: Publishing agents at this point are generalists. We all know. 311 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 7: How to love and sell every kind of book, and 312 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 7: we hang our hat on that because we want to 313 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,959 Speaker 7: always be relevant, which means we have to be nimble 314 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 7: in what we're paying attention to, but at the same 315 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 7: time don't get too carried away with trends. Yes, hooorror 316 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 7: is huge. Does that mean that we should have an 317 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 7: entire team of people focused only on horror? 318 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 2: No, it does not. 319 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 7: It means we should have an entire team of people 320 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 7: focused on the authors and the books that they love. 321 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 2: Because, going back to. 322 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 7: The beginning of the stability of the industry, trends last 323 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 7: two to four years. 324 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 2: Books take two to four years to be published. If 325 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 2: you chase trends, you are behind before you've even started. 326 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 5: I know you also are very proud of a project 327 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 5: like we used to live here, which really has allowed 328 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 5: a new channel to open up for authors who have 329 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 5: traditionally been left out of this sort of gate kept 330 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 5: approach to publishing that we've seen for so many years. 331 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 5: Can you speak to that project and landing pretty massive 332 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 5: talent on it as well? 333 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 7: Of course, Marcus Kleeb was the second Reddit story to 334 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 7: come our way, So I, as the book person, would 335 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 7: be nowhere without Adam Leving and David Boxerbom because the 336 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 7: only reason I even got to participate in this cool 337 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 7: world is because I happened to join a feature leading 338 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 7: the day that. 339 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 2: Adam and David were selling the first story. 340 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 7: Something important to note is fiction, for the most part, 341 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 7: sells on the full manuscript to editors. Editors don't typically 342 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 7: buy partial manuscripts, and they certainly don't. 343 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 2: Buy short stories. But what is Patnam to a fiction 344 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 2: editor voice? What does Marcus leamer Path voice? 345 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 7: It was when Adam Levine and David Boxerbaum took this 346 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 7: story We Used to Live Here, got Blake Lively attached 347 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 7: to produce a star, sold it to Netflix and an 348 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 7: outright purchase that I was fortunate enough to take the 349 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 7: story and know that there were a select group of 350 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 7: editors who would consider buying a novel on a partial. 351 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 7: So far, he's in a three book contract. He's had 352 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 7: his first book in We Used to Live Here come out. 353 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,439 Speaker 7: He adapted it from a forty page story to a 354 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 7: three hundred and fifty page story, and it took off 355 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 7: on book Talk was published in July. It sold over 356 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 7: one hundred and fifty thousand copies already, and he is 357 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 7: able to experience his dream, which is living the life 358 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 7: of an author full time. He continues to write stories, 359 00:19:54,960 --> 00:20:00,120 Speaker 7: we continue to package them up, and it's been a really, really. 360 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 2: The exciting thing to watch. As we're talking, I'm really 361 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 2: sensing that the diversification of your business. Is it fair 362 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 2: to say that TV and film is still the bulk 363 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 2: of it or are you really quite diversified into other 364 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 2: areas now. 365 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 8: When we started the agency, I think, as Brian mentioned, 366 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 8: we were primarily literary for the first ten years, and 367 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 8: obviously it was important to diversify on behalf of the clients, 368 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 8: who you know, demanded more and we wanted to demand 369 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 8: more of ourselves, and so we eventually got into talent, 370 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 8: and eventually got into publishing, and we eventually got into 371 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 8: you know, alternative television and unscripted and podcasting and theater 372 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 8: and everything else. 373 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 9: That you possibly could imagine. 374 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 10: We embraced all of it. And part of the secret 375 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 10: sauce of this place is sort of the integration of 376 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 10: all teams and sort of that one idea, as we 377 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 10: just mentioned, Marcus Leeber can live in ultimately in different 378 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 10: areas and be monetized in different areas, and I think 379 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 10: that that's really kind of what has set us apart. 380 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: Well. 381 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 10: Everyone says they have all their departments, we have teams 382 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 10: here at RV. We really are seamless in terms of 383 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 10: how we can monetize and really work together on any 384 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 10: given piece. Of literature or however, you know, however we 385 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 10: can monetize that ip again, I think it's still we 386 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 10: still sort of come back to the florals. 387 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 9: Of we are a place that has always rested on 388 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 9: the written word. 389 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 10: We will always be a place that will rest on 390 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 10: the written word. I think it sort of helps us 391 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 10: to understand when controlling material and content really on how 392 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 10: to build it successfully for any medium that makes the 393 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 10: most sense. The good news is now we have multiple 394 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 10: mediums in which to play in. 395 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 2: Obviously, a big change for the agency business in the 396 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 2: last couple of years has been the sunset of television packaging, 397 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 2: film packaging, but primarily television packaging, which was a huge 398 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 2: source of profits for agencies for decades. And I'm sure 399 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: there was a part of you like, oh great, it 400 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 2: goes away. We launch agency and it goes away. But 401 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 2: my question for you is, how have you seen the 402 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 2: marketplace react with keep packaging going away? 403 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 4: Are you seeing? 404 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 9: You know? 405 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 2: The one of the reasons why writers banded together and 406 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 2: and you know, forced the guild forced companies to kind 407 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 2: of sunset it was they felt that there were some 408 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 2: abuses that at times packaging would encourage people to encourage 409 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 2: certain writers to be on a show because they were 410 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 2: at the same agency, not because they were right for 411 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 2: the for the project. 412 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 4: You all know this. 413 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 2: My question for you is what is the marketplace post 414 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 2: packaging are you seeing? Is there less pressure to shove 415 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,159 Speaker 2: certain people into projects? Is there more money in the 416 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 2: system because the studios aren't paying those fees? Very curious 417 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 2: sort of what the what the impact is a couple 418 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 2: of years in, now that it has sunseted for new projects, 419 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 2: I can start the two areas. 420 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 6: To focus on with that question. Well, you are seeing 421 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 6: a lot of the legacy agencies deal with a huge 422 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,239 Speaker 6: downturn in economics with a loss of packaging one of 423 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 6: the exciting things, one of the call it lucky, call 424 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 6: it whatever you want. But our agency, which is almost 425 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 6: fifteen years old, was born in a time and is 426 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 6: a reflection of these changes in the creator economy in 427 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 6: our industry. I think it's been incredibly difficult for legacy 428 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 6: agencies who built their businesses on a model that doesn't 429 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 6: exist anymore. So we have this luxury of these are 430 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 6: the cards we were dealt, and we have been able 431 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 6: to be nimble and agile and be able to have 432 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,159 Speaker 6: our business be reflective and informed by the time and 433 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 6: the place. We're not trying to course correct. 434 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 4: We're moving forward with speed and excitement. As far as 435 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 4: how it's affecting. 436 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 6: The industry today and tomorrow, I think it's really fascinating. 437 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 4: I think it's messy. I think it's interesting. 438 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 6: I think it requires a lot of thought and analysis, 439 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 6: and everyone's trying to figure it out. The thing that 440 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,360 Speaker 6: we have enjoyed and our clients have enjoyed is it's 441 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 6: broken up any kind of monopolistic control of the business. 442 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 4: Right so we are. 443 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 6: It's kind of equalized the playing fields, and we're seeing 444 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 6: that with the way that televin shows are coming together, 445 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 6: the way movies are coming together in an exciting way 446 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 6: that feels more organic than it used to when it 447 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 6: was Frankenstein together because of a brand or a label. 448 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,199 Speaker 6: So we're really excited about where it is today and 449 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 6: where it's headed. Are the shows better? Are the movies better? 450 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 4: Because of this? I think you could be the judge 451 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 4: of that. But it's an exciting time and we're feel 452 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 4: really privileged to be in it. 453 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 3: I growth, Brian, we've definitely had the good fortune of 454 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 3: bad timing. If you look at when we started the 455 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 3: agency where it started off as really a feature lit agency, 456 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 3: and the TV team that started to grow just as 457 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 3: we were spreading our wings on the television side. 458 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 4: That's when packaging came to an end. 459 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 3: And it was a really easy decision for us to 460 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 3: sign the Code of Conduct because even though we may 461 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 3: have been feeling pressure from other agencies that were ready 462 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 3: to hold out, we did what we always do, which 463 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 3: is go ask the clients, Hey, what do you want, 464 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 3: and they told us we wanted to sign the Code 465 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 3: of Conduct. So it was an easy decision for us. 466 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 3: Making movies, making TV shows, it's an all hands on deck. 467 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 3: It takes a village and you need to work with 468 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 3: your partners and other agencies, and the pressure that's been 469 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 3: removed from that rivalry of fighting over the package certainly 470 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 3: make things easier. The area where that is probably the 471 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 3: most felt in terms of the removal of the packaging fee, 472 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 3: it's an agencies and that's why for us to get 473 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 3: into television lit and then shortly thereafter have the limination 474 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 3: of packaging fees, it didn't really affect our bottom line 475 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 3: as much as the data others. For us to get 476 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 3: into the talent business and we're starting to see back 477 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 3: ends for actors slowly diminish. It didn't affect us as 478 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 3: much as it has others. Right now, we're in a 479 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 3: growth mindset. We're hiring, we run a profitable business. We're 480 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 3: not trying to focus on antiquated models of how it 481 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 3: is that you monetize content. For us, it's all forward thinking. 482 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,360 Speaker 3: The ten percent business has been a great business for us. 483 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 3: There is no question that it is a complicated time 484 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 3: in the entertainment industry, all the things that you were 485 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 3: talking about before. When you look part of the reason 486 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 3: why data is so important is because you use it 487 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,439 Speaker 3: for a predictive model for the future. Let's look at 488 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 3: the last five years in the entertainment industry and what's happened. 489 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 3: You had the WGA walkout against the agencies, You had 490 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 3: a pandemic, you had a double strike. You also had 491 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,120 Speaker 3: the great Netflix correction in the April of twenty two, 492 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 3: which changed the business model of all of our studio 493 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 3: partners where they're all in the middle of an arms 494 00:26:58,080 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 3: race for content. 495 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 2: And don't forget Disney buying Fox, which is another earthquake. 496 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 3: Let's twenty seventy one don dollar acquisition and what it's 497 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 3: led to is where we are right now and where 498 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,360 Speaker 3: are we right now? If you walk into any studio, 499 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 3: film or television and asking three fundamental questions, what are 500 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 3: you making, how much are you making it for, and 501 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 3: how are you distributing it? The answers are not as 502 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 3: clear as they were in twenty nineteen. And what does 503 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 3: that mean. It means that they need more data, and 504 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 3: what does that mean? They need to try things out. 505 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 3: So over the next couple of years, we need to 506 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 3: see what it's going to look like. People are going 507 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 3: to make more things, people are going to make less things. 508 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 3: People are going to try different models, They're going to 509 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 3: try different distributions, They're going to try certain instances where 510 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 3: they all of these things theatrically, certain things on streaming, 511 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 3: and once they have enough data, they can then start 512 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 3: making the predictive model of saying here's what we're making, 513 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 3: here's how much we're making it for, and here's how 514 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 3: we're going to distribute it. 515 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 4: So we're on the representative. 516 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 3: Side, we are grateful that we don't have to come 517 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 3: up with the answers to those questions. But what we 518 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 3: need to do is we need to figure out how 519 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 3: now it is that we can be the best partners 520 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 3: to our clients and make sure that we understand how 521 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 3: to navigate these uncertain waters to make sure that they're 522 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 3: delivering in that instance. Maybe it's because we're naive, but 523 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 3: we firmly believe that quality is the best business model 524 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:15,360 Speaker 3: as an agent. 525 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 4: What do you need? 526 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 3: You need exoskeleton of cynicism. You need to look around 527 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 3: the landscape and realize, wait a second, how am I 528 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 3: getting screwed here? 529 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 4: Underneath that, you need to be an. 530 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 3: Unbroadled optimist where you can say, what's the best version 531 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 3: of these things? 532 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 4: How do we all win? 533 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 3: And right now it feels like we have a lot 534 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 3: more wins and because of that, we're super proud of 535 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 3: where we are and we're having a great time. 536 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 2: You've all talked about growth. You're in growth mode. How 537 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 2: let me I mean, just are you bringing Do you 538 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 2: have outside investors or do you have people that are 539 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 2: you know, supporting the agency? Are you doing an unorganic 540 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 2: cash flow? 541 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 6: Great question, It's a question that asked all the time 542 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 6: because people are surprised by the answer. 543 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 4: The answer is, we are an independent agency. We don't 544 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 4: have financial partners. We built the agency on the people 545 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 4: within the walls. 546 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 6: Over the last fourteen years, there have been constant knocks 547 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 6: on our door, but we've always celebrated our independence. 548 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 4: Our independence has given. 549 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 6: Us, has fortified this kind of entrepreneurial spirit that we love. 550 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 4: It's been really helpful for our success. It's also given 551 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 4: us a. 552 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 6: Client first approach. And client first approach was one of 553 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 6: the early central thesis. I know everybody says that now, 554 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 6: but it was we came from a place where it 555 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 6: felt like we were the agency was the bigger than 556 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 6: the clients were, and it felt kind of backwards. So day, 557 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 6: one hour, one minute, one and every day since it's 558 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 6: been about a client first approach. Having independence guarantees us that, 559 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 6: and so really excited to be on our road and 560 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 6: our path and it's not defined by anybody else. 561 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 9: We were very fortunate to be able to build this 562 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 9: brick by brick, and we were very fortunate to build 563 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 9: it with the right people who sort of joined our 564 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 9: little revolution. 565 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 4: Along the way. 566 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 9: And whether it was you know, Sean Gruman coming over 567 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 9: to start our talent team, because he looked at us 568 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 9: and said, hey, you. 569 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 10: Guys are doing something over there, and this is where 570 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 10: I think the future is a representation, or whether it 571 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 10: was Liz Parker starting our IP and book publishing team, 572 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 10: or whether it was Andy Stabile coming over and really 573 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 10: sort of fortifying our initiative in alternatives and in unscripted 574 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 10: and we can continue to look at that and go, 575 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 10: we just invest in the right people, but also they've 576 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 10: invested in us. 577 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 9: And looking at kind of. 578 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 10: What it is that we're doing and saying, hey, you 579 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 10: guys have something special going on here. Whether it's the 580 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 10: culture or the belief in the clients and how we 581 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 10: sort of go about the things, it all sort of 582 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 10: kind of comes down to that. We also take a very, 583 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 10: as Liz mentioned earlier, a mentorship approach right in everything 584 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 10: that we do. And so whether it's mentorship for our 585 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 10: young colleagues okay, to become better agents, or whether it's 586 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 10: the belief in our clients wholeheartedly and passionately getting behind 587 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 10: them with. 588 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 9: Sort of everything that we do. That has sort of 589 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 9: been our special sauce, and that's kind of been a 590 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 9: little bit of the understanding of where it. 591 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 10: Is that has been successful for us for the last 592 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 10: fourteen years. What will continue to sort of be the 593 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 10: DNA of who we are and how we move forward 594 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 10: and if we you know, and because of that independence, 595 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 10: we have allowed ourselves to be able to sort of 596 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 10: continue to just look at the clients and go. We 597 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 10: have the time and the nurturing to be able to 598 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 10: sort of help everybody get to where. 599 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 2: They want to be. 600 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 9: If not, we'll die try it. You asked a question 601 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 9: what keeps us up at that? 602 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 7: Yet? 603 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 9: I'm sure each one of us will have a different answer. 604 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 9: I'll give you my two. One is there is so 605 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 9: much content on right now. Is trying to keep up 606 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 9: with everything and trying to read everything. 607 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 2: I want more hours in every day. 608 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 9: Reading and consuming content is our currency and allows us 609 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 9: to be the experts or trying to be the experts 610 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 9: as we are, as we continue to guide our clients 611 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 9: as things sort of things move forward. 612 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 10: So being able to be on top of you know, 613 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 10: the market in the way that we used to, especially 614 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 10: now having you know, kids and lives and running a 615 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 10: company and all of that kind of stuff, it's been 616 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 10: a challenge, but it's one that we continue to commit to. 617 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 10: I used to be able as an assistant reach twenty 618 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 10: a week. I'm now down to tech, but it's still 619 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 10: tents and that is you know, it's not easy. 620 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 4: That's one. 621 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 9: The second thing, and I think Liz mentioned earlier the 622 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 9: incredible culture that we continue to believe in here. Can 623 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 9: we maintain that at scale, and that's going to be 624 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 9: something that will be an ongoing challenge, but something that 625 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 9: we want to remain both intentional at is to making 626 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 9: sure that we create the best environment for the people 627 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 9: to work here and learn and be able to grow. 628 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 3: Can I tell you what helps us sleep at night? Y? 629 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 6: Okay? 630 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 3: Our decision making process. Our decision making process helps us 631 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,479 Speaker 3: sleep at night. When you look at the people in 632 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 3: this room, Liz Parker is somebody who has an incredibly 633 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 3: high IQ and an even higher EQ where she understands 634 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 3: the business, understands people, and understands the intersection of the 635 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 3: different businesses and how it is they all come together 636 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 3: as a cohesive unit. When you look at someone like 637 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 3: Brian Besser, Brian Besser speaks artists, and he connects with 638 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 3: the clients from a place of artistic integrity, and that 639 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 3: manifests itself literally through the halls of Verve as he 640 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 3: helped design the office. When you look at somebody like 641 00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 3: Adam Levine, Adam Levine loves money and. 642 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 4: Loves loves money. 643 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 3: He's one of the best deal makers I've ever seen, 644 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 3: and I often find myself in his office asking for 645 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 3: perspective and appreciating it. And he also has the biggest heart. 646 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 9: We've always been and we will always continue to be 647 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 9: a police for a company. And whether that is something 648 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,240 Speaker 9: that we learned early on that I think we continue 649 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 9: to strive for every day is listening and. 650 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 2: Hastening two ears and one mouth for a reason, right right. 651 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 11: And listening is whether that is from a client perspective, 652 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:36,879 Speaker 11: from the community, from the international community, or from the 653 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 11: mailroom or the staff. 654 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 10: Whoever has the best idea waits And it's really something 655 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 10: that we really sort of thrive on, is listening and 656 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 10: then being able to interpret that into action. 657 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 2: Liz, anything you'd like to button us up with ever, 658 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 2: we believe everything is fixable. I love that. I would 659 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 2: like to extrapolate that model to other things in our 660 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 2: world right now. But seriously, thank you all for a 661 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,800 Speaker 2: really candid conversation. Yeah, we appreciate it. Thank you so 662 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 2: much for taking the time. Thank you so much. 663 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,800 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to our last episode of twenty twenty four. 664 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: We've had some of our best episodes yet This year, 665 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 1: we'll get to work on a twenty twenty four Highlights episode, 666 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,280 Speaker 1: and please keep your eye on your strictly business feed 667 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 1: because we have big plans to grow our footprint in 668 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. Thank you, dear listeners. Wishing everyone good health, 669 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 1: prosperity and peace for the new year.