1 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 2: and speaker. 4 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 3: writer and course creator. We are two working parents who 6 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 3: love our careers and our families. 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about 8 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, 9 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: from figuring out childcare to mapping out long. 10 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: Term career goals. 11 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life. 12 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: Welcome the best of both worlds. This is Laura. 13 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 2: This episode is airing in early November of twenty twenty five. 14 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 2: I am going to be interviewing Susie Welch. We're delighted 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 2: to have her here at the best of both worlds. 16 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: Susie teaches at the New York University Stern School of Business. 17 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: She is the author of the book. 18 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: Becoming You, which is all about finding your purpose in life. So, 19 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 2: Susie has a long career of writing about business related 20 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 2: topics and business leadership, and one of her big ideas 21 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 2: a couple of years ago was I think this is. 22 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: The title of one of her books. 23 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 2: It is ten ten ten, and that is when you 24 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 2: were choosing what to do, you ask yourself how you 25 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 2: will think about it in ten minutes, how you will 26 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: think about it in ten months, and will it matter 27 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 2: in ten years now. I had to look that up 28 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 2: because I first thought was it was ten hours, ten days, 29 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 2: and ten years, but I guess it's ten minutes, ten months, 30 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,199 Speaker 2: ten years. So I'm curious, Sarah, is there anything big 31 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 2: that you were thinking about and wondering about ten years 32 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 2: ago that turned out not to be something that you 33 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: are thinking about now. 34 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 4: Yeah. 35 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 3: I was just like, Okay, this is twenty fifteen, and 36 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 3: what would have been kind of stressing me out? What 37 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 3: would I have been ruminating about then? And I think 38 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 3: there were like two things that came to mind. One 39 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 3: is that I was always worried about having to miss 40 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 3: work with my kids getting sick and like did I 41 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 3: have enough layers? 42 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: And I had a full time nanny, so. 43 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 3: I don't know, I just felt I just remember being 44 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 3: like every single day, like being nervous that like the 45 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 3: shoe would drop in the morning and I miss work 46 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 3: and something bad would happen. So that's interesting, definitely not 47 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 3: something I worry about now. And then also one of 48 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 3: those things where like in retrospect, like if I had 49 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 3: missed a few days, like what would have happened? 50 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: Nothing? 51 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 3: And then the other thing is I do feel like 52 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 3: that I would have certain clinical dilemmas that would stress 53 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 3: me out so much, like, oh, I don't know what 54 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 3: to do, Like this is so hard. I'm like internalizing 55 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 3: the patient and like I now am at a point 56 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 3: when so yesterday I was working and we have this 57 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 3: junior colleague that's like one or two years I think 58 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 3: she's like a year at a fellowship now, and she's 59 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 3: always coming to my office with this worried look on 60 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 3: her face and asking me these questions. And the questions 61 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 3: never seem hard to me. I'm always like, oh, do this, 62 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 3: Like it does make you realize that when you're new at. 63 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: Something, it's really really hard. 64 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 3: And I'm not saying my clinical job still doesn't have challenges, 65 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 3: because of course it does, but it is totally easier. 66 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 3: Recognizing that is really fun. 67 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know that we get better at what 68 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: we do, which is a wonderful thing for sure. With 69 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 2: another decade of experience under your belt, Well, mine is 70 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 2: a little bit more lighter than that. I was thinking 71 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: of this ten years ago. I had been wanting to. 72 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 2: I we had this episode about wanting a bigger kitchen 73 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 2: recently with Kate Strickler. Right, So, ten years ago, I 74 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 2: was really unhappy with my kitchen. I wanted to renovate it, 75 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 2: but it seemed like a huge thing to do. I 76 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 2: didn't really have experience with doing a whole lot of 77 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 2: renovation and what that would involve, and so I was 78 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 2: very nervous about the process and all that. We finally 79 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 2: finally did it in twenty eighteen, which, you know, you 80 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: realize you should have done it years ago, But of 81 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: course none of that mattered now because we wound up moving. 82 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 2: We bought a different house in twenty twenty, which then 83 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 2: I had renovated a whole different kitchen, although probably learned 84 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 2: some lessons from the first one, and it probably helped 85 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 2: to have renovated the kitchen to sell that house, although 86 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 2: I'm sure that the people who bought it have probably 87 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: ripped everything out and done their own things, So none 88 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 2: of it was really worth all this angst that I 89 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 2: probably put into it. So, yes, kitchen angst, that was 90 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: your practice kitchen. It was my practice kitchen. But if 91 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 2: it was going to be my practice kitchen, I should 92 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 2: have done it so much before twenty eighteen. I should 93 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 2: have done it the second we moved into the house 94 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 2: if I didn't like it, but live and learn. 95 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: Turns out you can change things that you don't like. 96 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: Life moved on. 97 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 2: But anyway, Susie has all sorts of great career and 98 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 2: life advice. So we're very excited to hear from Susie Welch. Well, 99 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: Sarah and I are delighted to welcome Susie Welch to 100 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 2: this show. So Susie, thank you for joining us. 101 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 4: Oh, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for 102 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 4: having me. 103 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, we are very excited to talk with you. So 104 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 2: maybe you could tell our listeners a little bit about yourself. 105 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 4: Okay, Well I'm sixty six, so this could take a 106 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 4: while to you know, get yourself a hot toddy and 107 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 4: sit back, all right. I'm a professor Management Practice at 108 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 4: NY Eastern School of Business, where I teach MA but 109 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 4: I also teach a class called Becoming You about that 110 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 4: process of figuring out who you are in what direction 111 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 4: you should go. And I also teach the CITTMYU in 112 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 4: open enrollment. So I've taught it to people of all 113 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 4: ages from around the world. I'm also the mother of 114 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 4: four and I have two little grandchildren. 115 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 2: Oh that's a wonderful, full life. Yeah, full life for sure. 116 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 2: And you've had quite a very career. This stint at 117 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 2: NYU is only the latest of a long string of things. 118 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 2: I mean, you want to list a few. I know, 119 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 2: crime reporter, look at my career. 120 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 4: Makes perfect sense to me. I mean maybe when you 121 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 4: get to a certain point in your life. It Look, 122 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 4: you've had a lot of jobs, you know what I mean, 123 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 4: I'm four decades into this working thing. Look, I start 124 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 4: off as a journalist, and in those days, you started 125 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 4: on the crime desk, and I did. That's how they 126 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 4: started journalists in nineteen eighty one. I don't know a 127 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 4: reporter who didn't start that way. And I started as 128 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 4: a crime reporter. It's filled with fabulous stories. I love it. 129 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 4: I learned a lot about human nature. I always say 130 00:05:58,320 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 4: to my kids, you know, if you want to learn 131 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 4: about human nature, really quickly, be a crime reporter in 132 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 4: Miami in nineteen eighty one. 133 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: So I didn't want to rest to pull off now 134 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: right it is, But I mean that's good retrospective advice. 135 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 4: But that exposure to the real world is good stuff. Yeah. 136 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 4: I happened to love to write, and so that was 137 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 4: a lucky combination. And I was buffing along happily and 138 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 4: successfully as a crime reporter until one day I was 139 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 4: serendipitously reassigned to cover business. I had no interest in it. 140 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 4: I didn't want to do it. I went kicking and screaming, 141 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 4: and yet that was the open job, and it was 142 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 4: a promotion. I went into it and I thought, I'm 143 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 4: going to fail. I know nothing about this thing business. 144 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 4: I had been a fine arts major in college. I 145 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 4: had covered crime, and I didn't know what they were 146 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 4: talking about, but I thought it was very interesting. I 147 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 4: thought whatever they were talking about seemed to be important. 148 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 4: These were people who definitely understood why the world was working. 149 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 4: And I was like, wow, I know nothing about this 150 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 4: at all. And so in those days, there was no 151 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 4: Internet to go find out about business. There was no anything. 152 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 4: You couldn't read enough books to understand what business was. 153 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 4: I cooked up this crazy sigmate where I went and 154 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 4: I interviewed so of the top business CEOs in the 155 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 4: New England region. I was working in Boston at the time, 156 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 4: but it wasn't enough to go interview CEOs at all, 157 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 4: and so I did that. You know what seemed to 158 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 4: be a normal thing, which is I applied to business 159 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 4: school to learn about business. And you know, one of 160 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 4: the great mysteries of all times how I was accepted 161 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 4: at business school, but I was. I went to HBS 162 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 4: and I had a fantastic time there. I learned a 163 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 4: ton about business. It ended up I had something of 164 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 4: an aptitude for it, and I became a business journalist. 165 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 4: So this all makes sense to me. I mean, so 166 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 4: you know, sure you see on my resume that I 167 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 4: started as a crime reporter. I ended up working at Baine. 168 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 4: But it kind of made sense. When you go to 169 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 4: business school, you generally graduate into a job in consulting 170 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 4: or banking. I went the consulting route. I did it 171 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 4: for seven years. I learned a ton about business. I 172 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 4: kind of got my sea legs underneath me. And then 173 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 4: I combined the two. I was recruited away to come 174 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 4: run the Harvard Business Review because they thought, oh, look 175 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 4: there's a person who has a basic understanding of business 176 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 4: but also can write. To go get her. And they did, 177 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 4: and I had a great run there. And then I, 178 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 4: in the process of doing that, met my husband who 179 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 4: at the time had just retired as a cooge and 180 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 4: we decided I got fired for writing a story about him. 181 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 4: But whatever, this is ancient history now, I don't think 182 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 4: it would happened today. And then I joined forces with Jack. 183 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 4: We wrote a couple of business books together, we had 184 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 4: a TV show, and then I ended up going and 185 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 4: doing work on my own, writing a business column for 186 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 4: oh Oprah's magazine, writing my own books about business and 187 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 4: decision making, and then I ended up having two shows 188 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 4: on CNBC about business and careers. So again it makes 189 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 4: sense to me. Okay, I get that it looks like 190 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 4: it's a but you know I was. I was pivoting 191 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 4: along with the times. I wrote my original newspaper stories 192 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 4: on a manual typewriter, and I kept on having to 193 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 4: be it, just like everybody to day has to pivot. 194 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 4: The big pivot really wasn't to academia, which happened after 195 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 4: my husband died and I needed a new beginning and 196 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 4: it seemed to make some sense to me, and it 197 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 4: was calling me, and I thought, I'm going to give 198 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 4: it a try. I have this idea, this class I 199 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 4: want to teach coll becoming you, And YU was a 200 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 4: very entrepreneurial place, and they said, we'll let you try 201 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 4: it here. We'll watch you closely, but we'll let you 202 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 4: try it here. And it worked out really well. 203 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 2: Absolutely well, we're going to get to becoming you and 204 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 2: all the things people might learn about themselves as they 205 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 2: are becoming you. 206 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: But I want to back up. 207 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 2: A little bit because a lot of our listeners are 208 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 2: moms with young kids who are also working big jobs. 209 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: Yes, that's why we are best at both worlds. 210 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 2: And so I understand that your stint at Bain also 211 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: corresponded with you having like four small children. 212 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: I did write as a timeline, So I. 213 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 2: Wonder if you talk a little bit about the logistics 214 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 2: of your life then the various strategies you employed so. 215 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 4: To make me work. You know. Look, first of all, 216 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 4: I can't swear on the show. Yeah it was the 217 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 4: s show. Yes, it was the absolute horror show. Is terrible. 218 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:01,559 Speaker 4: I can't I paint a pretty picture of it. It 219 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 4: was really hard and at the time my first marriage, 220 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 4: which I was in my children with my first husband, 221 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 4: who was a very dear friend of mine now, but 222 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 4: he wasn't at the time. Our marriage was a disaster, 223 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 4: and so I had a lot of stuff going on. 224 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 4: I would say this, I'll describe it to you and 225 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 4: how bad it was and how I did logistically. It 226 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 4: doesn't go like that anymore because it doesn't happen that 227 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 4: there's a firm that doesn't have a partner track for mothers. Okay, 228 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 4: But when I was at Vain, you had your kids, 229 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 4: and you basically pretended you didn't have kids. The trick 230 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 4: was to not show your motherhood anywhere. These days have gone. 231 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 4: They're gone. I have many good friends now who are 232 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 4: being who are happy parents. Okay, But in those days 233 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 4: nineteen eighty eight, the trick was my first kid. In 234 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 4: nineteen eighty nine, I had four kids in five years, 235 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 4: and I was succeeding if I never talked about them 236 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 4: and no one ever saw it. And I still traveled 237 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 4: four days a week along with my case team. We 238 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 4: had my fourth child, a case team meeting in the hospital. 239 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 4: My team came. That was an important thing. I was 240 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 4: holding the newborn baby. They sat around my bed and 241 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 4: we talked about work. But these were really different times. 242 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 4: The way I did it logistically was I had a nanny, 243 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 4: I was making a good salary Baine, and my husband 244 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 4: was working as well, and so we had enough money 245 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 4: that I had to live in nanny and she remains 246 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 4: a dear friend of mine. She helped me raise my kids. 247 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 4: She was a young irishwoman. How she knew so much 248 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,839 Speaker 4: about kids, I don't know. But I loved her and 249 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 4: the kids loved her. And she was with us for 250 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 4: eight years, which is a long time in nannydom. And 251 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 4: you know, on my sister's help, My mom helped, everybody helped. 252 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 4: We all helped each other. Both of my sisters were 253 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 4: not working, so I could lean on them, but that's 254 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 4: you know, you can't lean too heavily on people. And 255 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 4: my mom stepped in, but she had a lot of 256 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 4: grandchildren to step in for. But I wouldn't wish it 257 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 4: on anybody. It was hard. Yeah, And look, one of 258 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 4: the reasons I went to Harvard Business Review when they 259 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 4: came to recruit me after that was that in the interview, 260 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 4: I asked the editor in chief how much travel is 261 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 4: there with this job? And she said she thought I 262 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 4: wanted travel, so she said, unfortunately, lay none and I 263 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 4: said I'll take it. I said, I'll take take it. 264 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 2: Sign me up. 265 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 4: I know that seemed like and it was actually when 266 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 4: I didn't have to travel four days a week. It 267 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 4: was a lot better. But you know, I'm still a 268 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 4: working mom. I have four children and they're in their thirties. 269 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 4: But if your kids are still young and you think 270 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 4: they're ever going away, you're so mistaken. They never go away. 271 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 4: In their twenties and thirties, they become very dear friends 272 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 4: of yours. Their problems become bigger, Their friends become characters 273 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 4: in your life. Their partners become characters and important individuals 274 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 4: in your life. I'm unbelievably close to my kids' partners. 275 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 4: Their lives are critically important to me. And so I'm 276 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 4: still a working mom. I mean last night, my daughter 277 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 4: who's thirty five, wrote me a text we were gonna 278 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 4: have dinner together, and I wrote back to her, go 279 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 4: away because I was still I was like I was working. 280 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 4: The difference is that you could really talk to them 281 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 4: about working a way they understand. 282 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. 283 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit before we go to 284 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 2: our first commercial break about this idea of becoming you 285 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,079 Speaker 2: so you wind up with your job at NYU. We're 286 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 2: going to teach this course on how people are going 287 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 2: to find themselves. 288 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: I guess is how we're to talk to your purpose. Yeah, 289 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: find their purpose. 290 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 2: And you joke in the book that you didn't really 291 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 2: find your purpose till you were sixty, that this was 292 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 2: your ultimate purpose. 293 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: So I mean, is this really something people can. 294 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 2: Do at any time of life? I mean we can, 295 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 2: we can figure those out. So yes, I mean I've 296 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 2: taught the Becoming You Methodology to people from ages sixteen 297 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 2: to seventy eight and with great success. Okay, so when 298 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 2: you're dead, you're done, is I like to say. And 299 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: until then you're living, and so you can get closer 300 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: to living your purpose, which is it feels exquisite. It's 301 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: a really beautiful thing. It's wonderful, and so I highly 302 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 2: recommend it. But why would you ever stop trying? 303 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 1: Absolutely? 304 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 2: So, the Becoming You methodology, it's somewhat from what I 305 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,839 Speaker 2: can understand from your book and all that is that 306 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 2: it's a sequence of tests where you are figuring out 307 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 2: your various values, your aptitudes, you are figuring out your personality, 308 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 2: and you are putting all this together. 309 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 4: And so it's three data sets. That's a good job. 310 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 4: Thank you for summarizing that way. Look, you gather data. 311 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 4: There's three data sets. The first is your values, which 312 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 4: we rank from one to sixteen. We get really nobody 313 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 4: really knows what their values are. They think there's only 314 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 4: two values, there's sixteen, and we do a very we 315 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 4: do a series of exercises. But then there's just one 316 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 4: big test called the values Bridge, which I developed in 317 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 4: my lab, that ranks your values for you from one 318 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 4: sixteen in a way that is scientific and research based 319 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 4: and removes your identity and all sorts of other issues 320 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 4: from it, which is very nifty, but also tells you 321 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 4: how far you are from living your values. It also 322 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 4: measures that that's always a very big moment to get 323 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 4: that data back. The second set of data that we 324 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 4: excavate are your aptitudes, and so we do both cognitive aptitudes, 325 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 4: which are your the big six. You know whether or 326 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 4: not your generalist or a specialist, a brainstormer or contributor. 327 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 4: So we test for those, and then we also look 328 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 4: at your emotional aptitudes, which are really your personality, and 329 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 4: we don't let you tell us what your personality is. 330 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 4: We have the world report on your personality because the 331 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 4: underlying premise of becoming you is that your personality is 332 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 4: how people experience you. So that's the second set of 333 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 4: data your cognitive and emotional aptitudes. And then the third 334 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 4: set of data is your economically viable interests. That's the 335 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 4: work that calls you emotionally or intellectually or both and 336 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 4: also pays you according to it. Or desired affluence value 337 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 4: is so like everybody has a different value that they 338 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 4: place on money, and so we've already discerned that through 339 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 4: the first sets of tests, and so then we look 340 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 4: at this third thing. We sort of open the aperture 341 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 4: on all the different kinds of work and different industries 342 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 4: that exist, and then we put it all together and 343 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 4: we identify what's called your area of transcendence, your purpose. 344 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 4: Sometimes people will come up with two options. Typically it's 345 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 4: one option. There's a lot of technology involved in this process. 346 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 4: There's a lot of tests that we've developed, assessment tools 347 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 4: that we've developed in the lab that make it easier 348 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 4: on peace because it's a lot of data to gather. 349 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 4: But we think we've helped a lot and then you've 350 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 4: got it. And tens of thousands of people have gone 351 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 4: through this process now, and for some people it's a 352 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 4: little tweak. Okay, yes, I'm so close, I just need 353 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 4: to do X. And for other people it's like got 354 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 4: to get out the TNT kind of stuff. There's a 355 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 4: very big reinvention or very big change that has to 356 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 4: either be done or considered. I mean, sometimes people walk 357 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 4: away and say I need a year to think about this, 358 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 4: and other times people say it's it. I've been waiting 359 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 4: for this conviction and this clarification and I'm going to 360 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 4: go do this. So I've seen everything at this point 361 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 4: with it. It's exciting. Yep. 362 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: Absolutely, all right. 363 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 2: Well we're going to take a quick ad break and 364 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 2: then I will be back with more from Susie Welch. Well, 365 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 2: I am back talking with Susie Welch, who is the 366 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 2: author of Becoming You, host of that podcast, also teaches 367 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: at NYU, which is helping many people discover their purpose 368 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 2: in life. 369 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: So Susie, I had to laugh when I. 370 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 2: Was going through some of your things and Becoming You, 371 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 2: of learning about your different values and all that. I 372 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 2: think I'm highest on agency, which makes sense. 373 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 4: Did you take the test I have? 374 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 1: I did not go through a completely I will. 375 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 4: Because maybe look, sometimes people are really right, like I 376 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 4: knew my top values before I took it, but I'm 377 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 4: and maybe you do, but you think you're high on agency, 378 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 4: which is the value that it reflects how much self 379 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 4: determination matters to you. Do you often feel like you 380 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 4: want it? You want to drive all the decisions. 381 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 2: And I cannot work for anyone else, says I can't 382 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 2: even do group exercise classes because I don't want people 383 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 2: telling me what to do. 384 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 4: Okay, I'm seeing the agency. I think you're right, and 385 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 4: that really matters, Like it matters in so many ways. 386 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 4: It matters in terms of your career and you already 387 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 4: know how it plays out, but it matters in relationships too. 388 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 4: It's a little bit concerning for me when I do 389 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 4: the Becoming Us methodology, which is when people do becoming 390 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 4: you together, there's a couple and both people have high agency. 391 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 4: It's fine if both people have medium, or both people 392 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 4: have low, or one has high and one has low. 393 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 4: But in a marriage, for instance, where both people have 394 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 4: high self determination. 395 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,719 Speaker 2: It gets complicated, gets complicated for sure, what are you 396 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 2: sort of off the charts on of the different app 397 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 2: So my. 398 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 4: Top value is cosmos. That's the faith value of a 399 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 4: faithful person, And so this reflects how much your faith 400 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 4: is an organizing principle of your life. And so my 401 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 4: number one value is cosmos, and it has been across 402 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 4: all the years of us testing the tool. My second 403 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 4: value is radius, which is the value that reflects how 404 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 4: much you want to create systemic change in the world. 405 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 4: So that's a different value than wanting to help people, 406 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 4: because wanting to help people is often quite an intimate act, 407 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 4: and we call that non city not for oneself, and 408 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 4: it attracts very differently than the value of radius, which 409 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 4: is a strong desire to create systemic change. And for 410 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 4: me that's I have that in many different aspects of 411 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 4: my life. And then my third value is what we 412 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 4: call work centrism, which is the desire for work to 413 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 4: be the organizing principle of your life. I love work. 414 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 4: I've always loved work. When I was a little girl, 415 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 4: literally I would see a woman with a briefcase and 416 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 4: I didn't know what she was doing, but I would think, 417 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 4: I want to be her. I've always loved work. And 418 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 4: we don't allow the word workaholic in the lexicon of 419 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 4: becoming you. People either have high work centrism or lower 420 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 4: work centrism. It's no wrter or no wronger anywhere you are. 421 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 4: We're sort of the judgment free zone. But I definitely 422 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 4: have close friends who have lower work centrism than I do, 423 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 4: and we talk about it and we joke about it, 424 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 4: and we ask each other about it. But it's not 425 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 4: right or wrong. So those are my top three. I 426 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 4: also have high achievement and a high place, which is 427 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 4: the value around where you want to live. 428 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 2: But is it common for people to have a lot 429 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 2: that are sort of in the middle, Like I feel 430 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 2: like a lot of people there are many things that 431 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 2: we could feel in the middle on right, Like, you know, 432 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 2: you want to be comfortable, but money isn't the driving 433 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 2: force of your life or things like that. 434 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 4: Everybody's different. Everybody has top values and if they're middle, 435 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 4: show up as middle. I mean, the tool force ranks it. 436 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 4: So the way it tests it is it's going to 437 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 4: find out which ones are the top for you and 438 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 4: which ones are the middle, and which are the bottom. 439 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 4: I mean, it's very possible that you have two that 440 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 4: are sort of middling. For sure, you do, yeah, but 441 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 4: you have some that are defining and not defining for 442 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 4: sure all people do. Yeah. 443 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 2: And then let's talk about this idea of sort of 444 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 2: following your passion, which I know gets a bit of 445 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 2: a grimace when we put it that way. But you 446 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 2: talk about just in many cases people sort of underestimate 447 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 2: what are economically viable interests. I know, you go on 448 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 2: a whole rant in Becoming You about some TikToker who 449 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 2: was going on about how she had no idea what 450 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 2: she wanted to do with her life, what was everyone 451 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 2: else doing? Somebody please tell her what she should do? 452 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 2: And then she mentions she'd love to have a farm 453 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 2: and rescue dogs. And then she moves on as if 454 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 2: this is nothing that anyone could ever pursue a career in. 455 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 4: Yeah. Look, when it comes to passions, I think there's 456 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 4: this follow your passion stuff and I and my answer 457 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 4: to that is is, yeah, fine, if you're good at it. 458 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 4: If you're good at it, If you're not good at it, 459 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 4: then it's a hobby, all right. I love ceramics. I'm 460 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 4: terrible at ceramics. My daughter happens to be a ceramicist. 461 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 4: So we have a pottery studio in the garage. And 462 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 4: I know how bad I am at ceramics. Do I 463 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 4: love it? And do I do it every weekend? I 464 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 4: sure do, But I'm not going to pursue it as 465 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 4: a career because us stink right, and she's magnificent and 466 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 4: she makes her living doing ceramics because she's so good 467 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 4: at it and she always has been. And so passions 468 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 4: are fine, but most people have some level of affluence 469 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 4: or you know, having money as of value, and so 470 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 4: I or you with the whole becoming you methodology urges 471 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 4: you to do is find what's at the intersection of 472 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 4: your passions, which we would say are values or potentially interests, 473 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 4: and your aptitudes. So that's why there's so much data, 474 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 4: because something's at the intersection of those three super highways, 475 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 4: if you will, and it's where they meet that you 476 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,719 Speaker 4: are going to find most likely to find your purpose. 477 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 2: But you have people that go through and research all 478 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 2: sorts of varying industry. Is that, you know, because people 479 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 2: haven't really thought about it, right, that's right. 480 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 4: There's one hundred and thirty five industries and eleven hundred 481 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 4: job titles. There's twelve mega trends, and what it's happening is, 482 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 4: I mean, there's research that's just heart stopping in terms 483 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 4: of like kids coming out of high school know about 484 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 4: five jobs can spontaneously, unprompted, name five jobs and two 485 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 4: of those are typically their parents. Then you go to 486 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 4: college and you think, oh, they're going to learn about 487 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,360 Speaker 4: a lot more jobs. They don't. They have the five 488 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,239 Speaker 4: jobs they used to know about, plus two that they 489 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,239 Speaker 4: heard through group think. You know, oh everybody should get 490 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 4: a job and took right. And then you go to 491 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 4: graduate school. Forget it. It's down to two jobs because 492 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 4: the conveyor belt has started, and so so much of 493 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 4: the work of becoming you is opening your aperture to say, 494 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 4: here's what one hundred and thirty five industries are, Here's 495 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 4: what all the job types are, Here's what the mega 496 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 4: trends are. Are you sure that you're looking around and 497 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 4: seeing everything? 498 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 2: I mean? 499 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 4: One of my happiest stories is about a student I had. 500 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 4: It was going into consulting, as students are wont to 501 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 4: do in the NBA program, and we went through this 502 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 4: process and I could sort of see her eyes drifting away, 503 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 4: and I said to during the break, what's going on? 504 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 4: And she said it didn't dawn on me. I could 505 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 4: take my aptitudes to shipbuilding. I love everything about the 506 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 4: sea and shipbuilding that her It's interesting her brother was 507 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 4: a merchant marine, so there must have been something in 508 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 4: the family, right, And she ended up applying to shipbuilding 509 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 4: companies with her skills. She was very good at logistics 510 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 4: and project management. She got a good job at a 511 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 4: big shipbuilding company based in Mobile, Alabama. That's where a 512 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 4: lot of shipbuilding is in the United States. She was 513 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,439 Speaker 4: just transferred to Athens, she got promoted, transferre to Athis 514 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 4: and she's going to have like a fantastic career in shipbuilding. 515 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 4: And it was just like somebody had to say the 516 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 4: word shipbuilding to her, otherwise she was going to go 517 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 4: work in in SaaS consulting and not have nearly the 518 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 4: life of adventure. And actually this for this particular student, 519 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 4: her number one value was scope. Scope is the value 520 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 4: of adventure, change, growth, risk people who just like very 521 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 4: stimulating lives. That was her number one value. And so 522 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 4: she actually her awareness of kinds of jobs allowed her 523 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 4: to express her number one value. 524 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, well there's things we just don't know about. And 525 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 2: if everyone's always like tech consulting and banking, yeah, then 526 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 2: that's right. You know, even if you have skills that 527 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 2: could be applied to a wide variety of countries, I 528 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 2: know there might be something else. 529 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 4: Yeah. I think it really hits people very young. I know, 530 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 4: I saw my sons. You know, I think it's a 531 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 4: mother just thinking. This is about a mother because I 532 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 4: raised four children. I saw them in college with this 533 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 4: group think about what they should be doing, like everybody 534 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 4: was going to do X. And when my daughter, who 535 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 4: was unbelievably talented, everything around TV, starting in middle school 536 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 4: and middle school, she would recast TV shows for fun 537 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 4: and she would like come down to dinner and she say, 538 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 4: I've just recast you know, Malcolm in the Middle with 539 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 4: different actors, and we'd be like, that's weird. And I mean, 540 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 4: she would like say things like we would see a 541 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 4: movie and the family would walk out talking about the 542 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:49,479 Speaker 4: plot of the movie, and she would say, that movie 543 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 4: would have been so much better if so and so 544 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 4: was cast in the lead role. So she went to 545 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 4: college and she studied English and was very involved in 546 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,360 Speaker 4: the drama program, casting all the plays, and the whole 547 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 4: time Jack and I, my husband and I were talking 548 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 4: to her about getting jobs in marketing and all these 549 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 4: jobs that were kind of what English majors did. And 550 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 4: then one day I was visiting her in Miami and 551 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 4: she was watching TV with like this look of just 552 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 4: like it looked like she was like praying in an altar. 553 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 4: She was like watching TV and I thought to myself, 554 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 4: the whole life, this child has loved TV. And I 555 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 4: went to the bedroom and I called my husband. I said, 556 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 4: what if TV is not the problem? What if it's 557 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 4: the solution? And he said, what are you talking about? 558 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 4: I said, I think she should go work at Hollywood. 559 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 4: So I went back. He said, Druck, so you shall 560 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 4: do it. I went back into the other room, and 561 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 4: when she stopped watching her show, I said, Sophia, have 562 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 4: you ever thought about taking yourself out of this whole 563 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 4: kind of conveyor belt thing that we've thought of for 564 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 4: you and going out and finding people just like yourselves 565 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 4: and working in Hollywood? And she said, oh, Mom, would 566 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 4: you let me? And like we had been, I know, 567 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 4: talk about moments of I felt sick. I thought, what 568 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 4: a dumb mother move, and I said, would I let you? 569 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 4: Oh my god, I am so late to this game. 570 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 4: And she graduated and she and her dog, Virginia Wolf, 571 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 4: and I got on the plane the next day and 572 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 4: she had in short order eight job offers because she 573 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 4: went around to the interviews in casting and they thought, 574 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 4: who is this young idiot savant? Because she like was 575 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 4: just crazy, she would like recast their shows for them, 576 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 4: and then and she's fifteen years later right now as 577 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 4: we speak, casting two Hollywood movies. So she built a 578 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 4: huge career in casting because it dawned on me to 579 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 4: invite her to consider that there were other jobs besides 580 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 4: the ones we think that are available. 581 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: There's everything, there's everything, absolutely all right. 582 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 2: Well, we're going to take one more quick ad break 583 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 2: and then I will be back with more from Sizie Welch. 584 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: Well, I am back talking with Susie Welch. 585 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 2: We've been talking about the varied careers that are available 586 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 2: in this world, and sometimes we have to just look 587 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 2: a little broader to figure out where our economically viable 588 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 2: interests overlap with our values and our aptitudes. So we 589 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 2: have a lot of probably achievement sevens. Listening to this 590 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,199 Speaker 2: people who are very ambitious and who are in that 591 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: little kid phase of life. I wonder if there's some 592 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 2: ways that somebody who does have big ambitions and also 593 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 2: who has a full personal life in this modern world 594 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 2: can be smart about going about being visible and being 595 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 2: the one that people are considering for leadership roles. 596 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 4: Well, I think that the kind of rules of how 597 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 4: you get promoted. Have always been the same in a way, 598 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 4: even though this world is crazy and changing underneath our feet. 599 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 4: And I think that it comes down to three things. 600 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 4: I mean, really just simplify it right down. And I 601 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 4: have a little acronym for it, which is PI. It 602 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 4: comes down to the quality of your relationships with people, 603 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 4: and quality is the key word there. It's like how 604 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,959 Speaker 4: authentic are you? How collaborative kind are you? It ends 605 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 4: up that most people actually appreciate decent people, So just 606 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 4: the quality of your relationships with people be number one. 607 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 4: The second and you can't escape it. It's the hardest one, 608 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 4: which is your ideas, Like how good are your ideas? 609 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 4: How often do you have them? And if you don't 610 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 4: have a lot of good ideas yourself, how good are 611 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 4: you as a midwife of other people's ideas That can 612 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 4: cover for you if you don't have very good and 613 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 4: you can get by without ideas, but it's hard to 614 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 4: get promoted without really good ideas. And then the third 615 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 4: area is execution, which is you know, I think women 616 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 4: are much better at this than men in general, which 617 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 4: is that you say what you're going to do and 618 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 4: then you do it, and you typically do it better 619 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 4: and faster than you say you're going to do it. 620 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 4: And I think that there's no hack, there's no shortcut 621 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 4: for it if you just have high quality relationships with people, 622 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 4: high quality ideas. And that takes a lot to have 623 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 4: high quality ideas, because it means you have to be 624 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 4: very hyper aware of trends and other new ideas. You've 625 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 4: got to be very current, and you know these things 626 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 4: don't typically just pop. You've got to cultivate the field 627 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 4: where the good ideals ideas grow, and you just have 628 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 4: to be so people can make break their careers on 629 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 4: execution and the consistency of your execution, and in that execution, 630 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 4: sort of owning the outcomes if it doesn't go your 631 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 4: way or if it does, to share the credit where 632 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 4: credits due. So I think this is whether you have 633 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 4: kids or don't have kids. That's the hard It's incredibly hard. 634 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 4: Kids make it harder because you're distracted because you have 635 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 4: this whole other life going on in your head. I mean, 636 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 4: you're work focusing on this things, but half your brain 637 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 4: is focusing on your kids also achieving that in their lives. 638 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 4: Are my kids friendships doing all right? Is my kid 639 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 4: doing okay? In school. Is my kid engaging with the world? 640 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 4: And is my kid adulting in a way? You know 641 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 4: with execution? Is my kid adulting in a way I 642 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 4: want to see? And you're living those two parallel lives, 643 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 4: and it's just an accident of biology that those two 644 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 4: things happen over happen to overlap for fifteen years from 645 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 4: when you're twenty five to forty five. Your work needs 646 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 4: to watch you mind, body, and soul, and so do 647 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 4: your children. And you just suit up and you do 648 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 4: it every day. 649 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: Suit up, put on the suit, and get to work. 650 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 2: So, Susie, are there any routines you have right now 651 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 2: that are helping your life, your daily life be better. 652 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 4: I'm a founder and so I have a startup. We're 653 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 4: only fifteen people, but we're in startup mode and we've 654 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 4: been going out of this for about a year, and 655 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 4: so I don't have any routines. I do have like 656 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 4: sort of life practices which are identity in very good stead. 657 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 4: You know that I use the word routine, so I 658 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 4: mean I wish I had a routine. I mean I 659 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 4: say I have life practices. I have time every day 660 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 4: where I pray and I express gratitude for just the 661 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 4: incredible amount of good fortune I've had in my life, 662 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 4: and also for the things that didn't go my way. 663 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 4: I mean, I lost my husband. I am still processing that, 664 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 4: even though it's been six years, and I try to 665 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 4: make sense of it. I have definitely have friends and 666 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 4: family who feel like how much I work is my 667 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 4: lack of ability to process it. But I do think 668 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,719 Speaker 4: they're not disconnected. And I you know, I have dogs 669 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 4: and I spend time with them, and I talked to 670 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 4: about I know this is going to sound crazy given 671 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 4: the fact that my kids are in their thirties, except 672 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 4: for people who are listening who have kids in their thirties. 673 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 4: I talk to all four of my children every single day. 674 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 4: I never miss a day where I talked to me. 675 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 4: I talk to my kids every single day. Sometimes it's 676 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 4: really short and sometimes it's it's longer. I often talk 677 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 4: to their This morning, I was not able to talk 678 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 4: to my son because he runs a big company and 679 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,959 Speaker 4: this is the thirty six year old, and I texted him. 680 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 4: We usually text at six thirty in the morning. And 681 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 4: I talk to my grandchildren, then that's absolutely something that 682 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 4: the day does not happen unless I talk to my 683 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 4: granddaughter at six thirty in the morning. I do that 684 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 4: every day, and so I talked to his wife instead. 685 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 4: I try to find time to reconnect with my humanity 686 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 4: when I'm not working. Excellent. 687 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: Reconnecting with humanity is good. 688 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 2: Well, Susie, thank you so much for joining us. Where 689 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 2: can people find you? 690 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 4: Well, I have a social media I'm mainly on Instagram 691 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 4: and LinkedIn Susie Welches use z y and I have 692 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 4: a newsletter which you can subscribe you for free on 693 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 4: my website Susielch dot com. And if you want to 694 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 4: find out more about Becoming You, you can go to 695 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 4: Becoming You labs dot com. That's where it describes all 696 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 4: of our programs and workshops and webinars and stuff like that. 697 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 4: So you can't miss me. I'm all over over. 698 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: There, all over the place. Wonderful. Well, please check that out. 699 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 2: Everyone's Susie Welch, author of Becoming You, who teaches a 700 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 2: course by the same name. 701 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: We can all become better versions of ourselves. Thank you, Susie. 702 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 4: I'm glad it was on. Thank you so much. 703 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 2: Well, we are back after hearing all sorts of advice 704 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 2: from Susie Welch on building our careers, making space for life, 705 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 2: finding our purpose. So, Sarah, here's this week's question. Is 706 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 2: it okay to not travel to visit extended family for Thanksgiving? 707 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 2: We always have, but with little kids it is a 708 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 2: pain to travel, the airports are crowded. I'd like the 709 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 2: extra days at home. I'd kind of like to start 710 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 2: our own traditions. Is there any good. 711 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: Way to handle Yeah? 712 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 3: I mean, I definitely don't think that anybody is obligated 713 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 3: to be the traveling party in any family on any year, 714 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 3: and I think these things can be negotiated and discussed 715 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 3: year by year. I do think what can be helpful 716 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 3: is figuring out if there are times of the year 717 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 3: that you will make an effort to see that part 718 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 3: of the family, either making it easy for them to 719 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 3: come to you, or perhaps you choose some other times 720 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 3: of the year, like, oh, we don't really want to 721 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 3: travel for Thanksgiving, but we plan on coming President's Week 722 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 3: and fourth of July. And I say that because those 723 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 3: are two times we're planning to hit Philadelphia, not during Thanksgiving, 724 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 3: when I would much rather stay here. So yeah, I 725 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 3: think that making sure that there are times that you 726 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 3: are going to connect is one thing that very much 727 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 3: helped if you don't want to connect at a specific 728 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 3: time because of other logistical challenges. 729 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: What are your thoughts. 730 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 2: Well with that, though, I would say there's often this 731 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 2: gap in sort of extended family vibe and logistics and 732 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 2: things between when it was easier for all the adult children, 733 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,720 Speaker 2: like young adult children to land at say the parents' 734 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 2: house for holidays, and then when people start building their 735 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 2: own families and become a lot less mobile, right, and 736 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 2: there can be this lag and people are still in 737 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 2: their mindset of like, oh, it makes sense for everyone 738 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 2: to come to us, but it's like, no, if somebody 739 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 2: has three small children, it does not make any sense 740 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 2: for them to come to you. It makes way more 741 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 2: sense for parents who are adults to get on a 742 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 2: plane and go to them. And yet there can be 743 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 2: a lot of lag and sort of this understanding or 744 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 2: you know, sometimes people just don't like to travel, so 745 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 2: they've been excited about the fact that people come to 746 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,760 Speaker 2: them and think that's the natural way of the world, 747 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 2: but it isn't so anyway. That to be said, if 748 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 2: it is your side of the family that you go 749 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 2: to see or Thanksgiving, obviously you can simply say that 750 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 2: you are not coming. You are not coming this year. 751 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 2: People are welcome to come to you. They can come 752 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,399 Speaker 2: for Thanksgiving, they can come for Christmas, they can come 753 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 2: for X, Y Z other times which you have identified 754 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 2: which would be great. 755 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:09,760 Speaker 1: You know, come beyond in May. 756 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 3: When we have for a million things going on, So 757 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 3: come for a kid performance or a kid getting honored 758 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 3: or something. 759 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, And if people ask why, like how could you 760 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 2: do this, to say, well, it's very challenging for us 761 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 2: to travel with three small kids. You are welcome to 762 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 2: come to us and just keep repeating this line over 763 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,839 Speaker 2: and over again until they either do, like they buy 764 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 2: a plane ticket, or you'll have to figure out at 765 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 2: some point, you know, if the kids are older, then 766 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 2: you'll get back on a plane and go visit them again. 767 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 2: But I think you are allowed to set these boundaries. 768 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 2: You're allowed to make your own choices. And then if 769 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 2: it's on your partner's side, then obviously that person needs 770 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 2: to have this conversation. And assuming you are both on 771 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,240 Speaker 2: board with this idea that you do not want to travel, 772 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 2: then they just need to repeat that script with their 773 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:58,800 Speaker 2: family over and over again until it sinks in people 774 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 2: buy a plane ticket or they don't. They have to 775 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,320 Speaker 2: make their own decisions in life too. But then yes, 776 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 2: you should start making your own traditions if you had 777 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,800 Speaker 2: decided you're not going to travel. Cooking Thanksgiving meal is 778 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 2: not that hard. Honestly, people get a little bit like, ooh, 779 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 2: it's so intimidating. It's not really that intimidto if you 780 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 2: only choose a couple of dishes to do, Like green 781 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 2: beans on their own are not hard to cook, right, 782 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 2: Like mashed potatoes also not that hard to cook. 783 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 3: You can also take the whole thing out from whole 784 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 3: foods or something like you know what I mean. 785 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 2: You don't have to though, that's even the thing, Like 786 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 2: you stick a turkey in the oven and it cooks 787 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 2: like it takes a while to cook, but it does. 788 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 2: In fact, heat will cook meat over the course of 789 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 2: several hours. So you'll be okay, just cook your green beans, like, 790 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 2: get some corn bread, put it in the oven, mashed potatoes, 791 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 2: You've got a meal, right, Like that was not that 792 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 2: much harder than cooking an average weekend meals. So and 793 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:53,399 Speaker 2: then think about what else do you do? Are they 794 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,800 Speaker 2: like holiday things you want to start doing over the weekends? 795 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,919 Speaker 2: Are there parades you want to go to is they're 796 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 2: a really cool thing at the Children's Museum. Yeah, you'll 797 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 2: start building your own traditions and then it'll feel a 798 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 2: little bit more not just that you're not doing something yet, 799 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 2: you're not going to visit family, but that you are 800 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 2: truly building your own stuff that hopefully you can incorporate 801 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,280 Speaker 2: other people into when they start to come visit. 802 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 4: You love it. 803 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 3: We also do a friends giving that's a fun you 804 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,720 Speaker 3: tradition that you can add on to a family event 805 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:20,839 Speaker 3: or do on your own. 806 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 2: Absolutely well, this has been best of both worlds. I 807 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 2: was interviewing Susie Welch. We will be back next week 808 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 2: with more on making work and life fit together. 809 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the 810 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 3: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, 811 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 3: and you. 812 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 2: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. 813 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. 814 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,320 Speaker 2: Please join us next time for more on making work 815 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 2: and life work together.