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Speaker 1: David Kleanler as our guest. He resides in the Greater

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Speaker 1: Brinham area. Now. His son's the head football coach at

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Speaker 1: Somerville High School. His other son is the offensive coordinator there.

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Speaker 1: You probably remember the name if you've been in Houston

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Speaker 1: or followed football for very long. He was a star

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Speaker 1: quarterback at the University of Houston in the early nineties.

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Speaker 1: He was third runner up for second runner up for

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Speaker 1: the Heisman Trophy. First round draft pick of the Cincinnati

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Speaker 1: Bengals ended up going to the Raiders, but his elbow

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Speaker 1: was blown by then and came home and decided he

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Speaker 1: really wanted to learn the Bible, and now he teaches

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Speaker 1: others and teaches people how to learn the Bible. He,

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Speaker 1: of course, in the meantime, went and got a PhD

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Speaker 1: at Seminary in theology. David, let me ask you a question.

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Speaker 1: You were talking earlier about theological studies and the types

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Speaker 1: of people who go there. I have heard it said

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Speaker 1: of people I've known who were Theologians that went to

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Speaker 1: Harvard School that there aren't actually any Christians there, that

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Speaker 1: it's as if it's sort of like you go to

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Speaker 1: a literature school and there's no writers there that there

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Speaker 1: are people who reduce it to something that does not

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Speaker 1: involve any faith. Do you find that to be the case.

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Speaker 2: Yes, well, yeah, we have a in our desire to

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Speaker 2: make the Bible more acceptable because of what we were

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Speaker 2: talking in the last session that you know, the Bible

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Speaker 2: calls to suffering. You know, James is going to say,

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Speaker 2: considered all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials

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Speaker 2: knowing that the testing of your faith works for endurance,

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Speaker 2: and let endurance have it. That's not fun talk right suffering,

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Speaker 2: you know. And so in our desire to make the

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Speaker 2: Bible more appealing, less offensive, more tolerant, more all accepting,

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Speaker 2: we water down the Gospel, We water down the teachings

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Speaker 2: of the Bible. And it's all around us today. But

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Speaker 2: it's not just today. That's always been the case, Paul,

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Speaker 2: from the very beginning. The all of the letters that

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Speaker 2: we see in the New Testament. We're actually in we're

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Speaker 2: having a conference coming up in March fourteenth and fifteenth

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Speaker 2: where we're going to talk about the letters. But all

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Speaker 2: of the letters in the Bible, whether it's Romans or

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Speaker 2: Ephesians or Galatians or whatever it is, these were letters

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Speaker 2: written to people or to the church to address theological

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Speaker 2: issues that have come up that are causing people to change,

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Speaker 2: to compromise. And so every school Princeton, Harvard, so many

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Speaker 2: of our great schools, Yale, they all began as theological institutions.

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Speaker 2: And unfortunately we tend to wander from the faith. And

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Speaker 2: it wouldn't surprise me if even schools that have historically

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Speaker 2: been really good Dallas Seminary or you know, all of

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Speaker 2: these denominations, we're seeing it. They all wander from the

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Speaker 2: faith and compromise, often under the guise of being tolerant

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Speaker 2: and more loving. But what happens is we we change

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Speaker 2: the definitions right of these words. And you see it

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Speaker 2: even in constitutional law and government and these types of things,

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Speaker 2: that if you're allowed to change the definitions, you can

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Speaker 2: make it mean whenever you want right. And so I

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Speaker 2: see it's.

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Speaker 1: The ultimate O right. That's what New Speakers about. He

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Speaker 1: gave us the tools to understand this, that words have meaning,

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Speaker 1: and that if you need to change concepts, you simply

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Speaker 1: change words and change meaning. And it's very powerful. You

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Speaker 1: made a reference to the church, and I'm never you know,

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Speaker 1: people like to paint with a broad brush and refer

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Speaker 1: to the black community as if all black people live

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Speaker 1: in a certain neighborhood and make the same amount of

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Speaker 1: money and do the same things. And it's just not true.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm going to paint with a bit of

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Speaker 1: a broadbrush. But when you look at the church today,

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Speaker 1: organized Christianity in the form most of us would identify with,

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Speaker 1: where do you see that as compared to where it was?

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Speaker 1: And what would you most like to change?

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Speaker 2: I tell you know, when we walk down that that's

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Speaker 2: a great question. We walk down the trail of church history.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that we're doing at our church,

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Speaker 2: Champion Fellowship and Brenham is we are I'm helping us

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Speaker 2: think through the reality the distinction between the church or

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Speaker 2: a church. A church is simply a gathering of believers,

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Speaker 2: and so you know, and so once a you know,

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Speaker 2: a group of believers gathers, we can call it a church.

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Speaker 2: But the Body of Christ, the Body of Christ, is

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Speaker 2: all believers in all places, in all times. At the

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Speaker 2: end of the story, people from every nation, every tribe,

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Speaker 2: every people, every tongue. This is the Body of Christ.

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Speaker 2: And we have so divided the Body of Christ. We've

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Speaker 2: so you know, we have factions Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic, Baptist, UH.

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Speaker 1: I prefer to just refer to it as Southern Baptist.

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Speaker 1: And the non Christians, well, that's.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that we're the only ones who are who are saved, right,

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Speaker 2: We're the only ones who are in And and I

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Speaker 2: love what Paul says to the Corinthians. You know that

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Speaker 2: this is UH, you know, very early one of UH,

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Speaker 2: one of the early letters that Paul writes. And there's

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Speaker 2: divisions in the church at Corinth And and they've divided

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Speaker 2: over following. Some of them are following Paul, some of

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Speaker 2: them are following Apollos, who's the pastor of the church there.

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Speaker 2: Some of them are following Peter, who's the leader of

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Speaker 2: the of the Jews and the church in Jerusalem. And

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Speaker 2: and I love what he says. He says, you know,

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Speaker 2: I hear that there are divisions among you. Some are

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Speaker 2: saying I'm of Paul, or I'm of Apollos, or I'm

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Speaker 2: of Peter or of Christ. And then he asks this question,

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Speaker 2: was Paul crucified for you or were you baptized in

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Speaker 2: the name of Paul. I thank god I didn't baptize

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Speaker 2: any of you, so none of you could say you

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Speaker 2: were baptized in My name right. And then he goes

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Speaker 2: on to say, and this is where the it kind

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Speaker 2: of makes us, you know, Baptists uncomfortable. He says, the

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Speaker 2: Lord didn't send me to baptize, but to preach the Gospel.

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Speaker 2: And so he goes on to explain in this whole

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Speaker 2: letter that everything he does is to build up the

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Speaker 2: body of Christ. And so we do great error when

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Speaker 2: we fail to recognize that all believers in all places,

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Speaker 2: in all times, in all churches, and none of us

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Speaker 2: have the you know, we're all heretics in the sense

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Speaker 2: that we all believe false doctrine. We just don't know

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Speaker 2: what the false doctrine is that we're believing. And so

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Speaker 2: that's what we've got to go back to the scripture

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Speaker 2: all of the time to make sure that what we're

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Speaker 2: saying is So we've got to be bereans. And I

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Speaker 2: think that you've got to have a lot of humility

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Speaker 2: when you come to the scriptures and put yourself under

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Speaker 2: the authority of the text, not under the authority of

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Speaker 2: a teacher, a Bible teacher, a ministry, even if it's

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Speaker 2: teached me the Bible or whatever it is. We all

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Speaker 2: have to answer to the Lord. And so so you know,

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Speaker 2: the church has always been in some ways a mess.

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Speaker 1: Because it's human.

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Speaker 2: Church is the bride of Christ, sure, and the church

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Speaker 2: is the bride of Christ, and He gave himself for

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Speaker 2: the Church. And so so one of the.

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Speaker 1: Things that David Cuiller is our guest, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: ask him in his teach Me the Bible dot com

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Speaker 1: and teach Me the Bible podcast sort of way to

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Speaker 1: teach me about one of my favorite people in the Bible,

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Speaker 1: and that is the apostle part which she said in Spinish.

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Speaker 2: I just said it's the judge in Spanish, because I

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Speaker 2: feel that she forgets that we're Hispanic and that we're

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Speaker 2: the people that she targeted for.

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Speaker 1: A book The Michael Verie Show. David Klingler is our guest.

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Speaker 1: You may remember him as a football star U He

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Speaker 1: went on to get his pH d in theological studies

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Speaker 1: with an expertise in the Old Testament. You can go

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Speaker 1: to teach Me the Bible dot com in a very

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Speaker 1: accessible way to learn about the Bible. He also has

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Speaker 1: a podcast those of you always looking for a fun

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Speaker 1: new podcast, and he's our guest of David Klingler, if

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Speaker 1: you would teach me the Bible about Paul. Saul of Tarsus.

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Speaker 1: One of my favorite, one of my favorite people in

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Speaker 1: all the Bible is Uh Saul of Tarsus because of well,

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Speaker 1: for many reasons. But anyway, teach me the Bible about Paul.

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Speaker 2: Uh. What an You know, Paul was a he's a pharisee.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: You know, he kind of lists his credentials in Philippians

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Speaker 2: chapter three. You know, he was of the tribe of Benjamin,

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Speaker 2: circumcised on the eighth day. He was steadfast in his

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Speaker 2: holding to Judaism, persecution of the church. And uh. And

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Speaker 2: so the thing about Paul is he knew the Old

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Speaker 2: Testament scriptures stone cold. I mean, he knew, he knew

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Speaker 2: the Bible. He knew the Old Testament scriptures. And when

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Speaker 2: he comes to Christ, it just changes everything for him.

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Speaker 2: Uh and uh. And so he wholly devotes himself to

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Speaker 2: the Lord. And and we were talking in the last

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Speaker 2: segment about the Corinthians and and and everything that he

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Speaker 2: does is for the building up of the body of Christ.

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Speaker 2: He explains that we are members of one another. And

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Speaker 2: I love how he how he sets that out that

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Speaker 2: John says the same thing. It's all bringing a little

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Speaker 2: bit of John here in first John. But how can

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Speaker 2: you say that you love Christ and you haven't seen Uh,

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Speaker 2: none of us have seen Jesus. None of us have

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Speaker 2: heard his voice. We talk about, you know, we use

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Speaker 2: that kind of language. You know, I've heard the voice,

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Speaker 2: but you know, but how would you know? Right, Paul

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Speaker 2: was going to say, Look, I don't care if an

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Speaker 2: angel appears in you know, in the room. If if

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Speaker 2: someone appears to you, if an angel appears to you

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Speaker 2: and presents a gospel different than that which I preached,

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Speaker 2: let him be a cursed And you know. And so

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Speaker 2: if we haven't seen Jesus, don't tell me about your

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Speaker 2: love of Jesus. Show me your love of Jesus through

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Speaker 2: your love of his body. That is the Church, the

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Speaker 2: body of Christ. And so we need to be about

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Speaker 2: building up the body of christis everything he does. He

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Speaker 2: sacrifices his whole life, all of his credentials, to build

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Speaker 2: up the Body of Christ, to take the gospel to

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Speaker 2: the gentiles. And and boy, he is bold, I mean

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Speaker 2: unbelievably bold, and ultimately goes to his death because of it.

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Speaker 2: Just an amazing character.

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Speaker 1: What I find interesting is that perhaps the verses that

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Speaker 1: that I have most really enjoyed diving into and really

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Speaker 1: taking them apart. I like to put take things apart

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Speaker 1: and put them back together, not physical things, but people

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Speaker 1: and in literature and the Bible. And I find that

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Speaker 1: with Paul's letters, h I do that. And I didn't

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Speaker 1: know until later that these were letters, that this was

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Speaker 1: a sort of an untraditional, unconventional portion of the Bible.

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Speaker 1: How do you think that affects the books that by

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Speaker 1: that that that are attributed to Paul because they were

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Speaker 1: a letter formed from prison to those those peoples, those churches.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that that if we if we first

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Speaker 2: remember that they're letters, you'll interpret them correctly. Right we

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Speaker 2: go in. Let's take for example, Paul's letter to Timothy.

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Speaker 2: He writes two letters to Timothy, and he's going to

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Speaker 2: say things. He's going to tell Timothy to do things

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Speaker 2: like look out for Alexander the coppers myth. Well, I'm

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Speaker 2: not worried about Alexander the coppers myth, you know. And

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Speaker 2: and he says, bring me my cloak imparchments before winter.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not trying to find Paul before winter. I'm

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Speaker 2: not praying for Paul, you know, Paul's you know, but

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Speaker 2: he tells Timothy to do other things that are very

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Speaker 2: applicable to today. And so when we remember that Paul,

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Speaker 2: for example, was writing to the Romans, the Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians,

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Speaker 2: whoever was to address specific issues that had arisen in

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Speaker 2: that congregation, or with by Layman, or or with with Timothy,

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Speaker 2: or in the church at Thesalonaika, then we can read

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Speaker 2: them and it makes sense. We see what he was

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Speaker 2: doing back then, and we can draw implications for today

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Speaker 2: because we're still in the church today, and the you know,

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Speaker 2: the church still has its struggles, and the world is

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Speaker 2: still the world. Nothing is new, as Solomon would say

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Speaker 2: in Ecclesiastices, there's nothing new under the sun. It's the

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Speaker 2: same issues. People are still pursuing wealth and a big

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Speaker 2: name and fame and fortune and that then they die

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Speaker 2: and it's all vanity.

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Speaker 1: David Klinger is our guest. David, let me ask you,

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Speaker 1: you know, having gone to law school and then getting

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Speaker 1: another law degree. When people ask me questions about, you know,

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Speaker 1: how do I learn more about the law, I often

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Speaker 1: say that you have to begin by unlearning many things

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Speaker 1: that were told to you that are not true because

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Speaker 1: they create blocks, and how you understand, you know, how

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Speaker 1: our legal code is written, and how how our legal

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Speaker 1: code is interpreted and applied and precedent and case law

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Speaker 1: and all these sorts of things. What are some things

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Speaker 1: that you think corrupt our general understanding of the Bible

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Speaker 1: in a conventional sense that you have to undo to

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Speaker 1: go in with a properly open mind.

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Speaker 2: Boy, what a great question. I think that our denominationalism

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Speaker 2: doesn't help. Our church history doesn't help, Our Americanism doesn't help.

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Speaker 2: And I'm you know, look, I I'm profoundly proud of

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Speaker 2: our our our American history and so many of the

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Speaker 2: things there. But but when we equate being American with

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Speaker 2: being Christian or or being whatever it is with being Christian,

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Speaker 2: that's that's not helpful. And so, as you said, so

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Speaker 2: many of the things that we have learned, not only

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Speaker 2: you know, limit us from understanding the Bible.

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Speaker 1: David Klingler is our guest. We had a momentary glitch.

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Speaker 1: The devil was was working on our phone lines and

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Speaker 1: took it down for a moment. But yeah, throughout his career,

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Speaker 1: he has uh, he has been perseverant and resilient if

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Speaker 1: if nothing else, and and he will continue to be

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Speaker 1: just a second before we go to a quick break,

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Speaker 1: and then we'll move on to the next thing. What

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Speaker 1: do you love most about what you do now in

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Speaker 1: addition to being a dad and a husband and a friend.

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Speaker 1: But this, I don't want to call it a job

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Speaker 1: per se. But what do you love most about it.

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Speaker 2: To watch people understand the Bible. It was the thing

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Speaker 2: that drove me. And in the Bible doesn't need to

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Speaker 2: be hard to understand. The churches don't need to be

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Speaker 2: set against each other. We need to all be pursuing truth.

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Speaker 2: And and so when we understand the Bible becomes so simple.

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Speaker 2: It's fun to watch students. They're you know, the kind

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Speaker 2: of that aha moment, they get it, they understand it,

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Speaker 2: and and it's just fun to watch. And then they

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Speaker 2: you watch how it changes their lives and they devote

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Speaker 2: themselves to very different things than they had before. And

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Speaker 2: and so that's what I love, That's what I do.

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Speaker 2: I'm thankful for the ministry of teaching the Bible. So

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Speaker 2: many great people behind that thing and make that go.

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Speaker 2: I just say on the in the microphone, what I

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Speaker 2: teach at at the seminary. But but just so thankful

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Speaker 2: to be a part of that, and that the Lord

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Speaker 2: can use any of us. You know, you don't have

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Speaker 2: to be a retired football player with a big name.

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Speaker 2: The Lord has always used the smaller.

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Speaker 1: Now that's a talent and it's good that you do

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Speaker 1: use it. David Clingley Clinger is our guest more than comm.

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Speaker 2: And you listen to the Michael Berry Show.

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Speaker 1: Not David Cleanler is our guest football star turned PhD

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Speaker 1: in theology. Now, teach me the Bible dot com. There's

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Speaker 1: a podcast, teach me the Bible dot Com. I noticed,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about your team. I notice you've got some folks.

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Speaker 1: See if I can pull the page back up here,

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Speaker 1: You've got some folks that are associated with churches who

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Speaker 1: are part of I guess this podcast team. Tell me

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Speaker 1: what this entity looks like that you are a part of.

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Speaker 1: It looks like you.

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Speaker 2: Run it's it's actually just a very small group of

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Speaker 2: very committed people. We Our budget is next to nothing.

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Speaker 2: And and you know you don't need a lot of

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Speaker 2: money to do ministry. Uh, you need just some passion

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Speaker 2: and care for people. And and so there's still Porter

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Speaker 2: phil Is h He's our worship pastor at Champion Fellowship,

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Speaker 2: Tim Webb. Tim's the the lead pastor at the church,

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Speaker 2: and just a wonderful guy. We've become just steadfast friends

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Speaker 2: and and just such a faithful guy. Alex Wolfe is

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Speaker 2: actually one of our PhD students and also a pastor

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Speaker 2: at the church. And uh. And then there's several men

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Speaker 2: who I've trained through the PhD program who are pastoring

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Speaker 2: at other churches and and we all just have a

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Speaker 2: passion to help the people of God understand the Word

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Speaker 2: of God. And that's what brought us together and uh,

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Speaker 2: and so that's what we're what we're doing, will teach

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Speaker 2: me the Bible.

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Speaker 1: And when people engage in this and they want to

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Speaker 1: understand the Word of God, how do you think that

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Speaker 1: changes them? How? What is their reaction after this? What

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Speaker 1: do you hear back?

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Speaker 2: Mostly just you know, thank you, it makes sense now.

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Speaker 2: And and I don't want any of the focus. I

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Speaker 2: always tell our students. I tell our you know, with

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Speaker 2: the seminary, we're training pastors, we're training professors, And say

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Speaker 2: if anyone ever comes up to you after you've taught

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Speaker 2: or preached and say, boy, you're such a gifted speaker,

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Speaker 2: such a gifted communication or or you know, communicator or whatever.

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Speaker 2: You're doing something that's bringing attention to you. And our

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Speaker 2: job is to bring attention to the Lord and to

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Speaker 2: his word. And so that's really it when they come

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Speaker 2: up and they say, man, I really thought that I

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Speaker 2: knew Jesus, but this just is is just it's so

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Speaker 2: eye opening. It's you know, thank you. That's that makes

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Speaker 2: it worth everything we're doing.

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Speaker 1: You have a Bible conference coming up March fourteenth and fifteenth,

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Speaker 1: and I'm reading about it and it's to teach me

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Speaker 1: the Bible Conference twenty twenty five and it says, this

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Speaker 1: was an interesting line.

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Speaker 2: I thought.

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Speaker 1: Our mission is to help the people of God understand

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Speaker 1: the Word of God. And when you leave this conference,

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Speaker 1: you will be able to open your Bible and understand

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Speaker 1: all the epistles. Is there a particular focus on the epistles?

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Speaker 1: Why do you mention that?

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Speaker 2: Well, last year we did the story of the scriptures,

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Speaker 2: and so what we're doing, we're always just taking a

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Speaker 2: section of scripture and say let's let's understand what this

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Speaker 2: section of scripture is doing. And we're going to dive

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Speaker 2: into six specific epistles three, Pauline epistles three, what we

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Speaker 2: call general epistles. And so we'll be doing Ephesians and

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Speaker 2: Philippians James First, John First, p lead missing the missing

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Speaker 2: one of them. I don't remember which ones. They're all

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Speaker 2: running together. I think Philippians, Uhphesians of Philippians and uh,

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Speaker 2: one more. Well, we'll teach six of them. But but

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Speaker 2: helping people understand, Oh, this makes sense. I know what

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Speaker 2: he's saying now, and it kind of demystifies in some

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Speaker 2: in some way what Paul's saying. Paul just writing to

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Speaker 2: historic group of people to address a historic situation. Uh

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Speaker 2: and uh, and they go, wait a second, this makes sense.

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Speaker 2: I understand this now, and that's our goal. That that

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Speaker 2: is simply our goal. Uh, in everything that we're doing.

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Speaker 1: What does your personal Bible study look like? Do you

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Speaker 1: have a time of day, do you have a place

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Speaker 1: where you go? Do you have and I know you

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Speaker 1: do to teach me the Bible in a year, which

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Speaker 1: I know a lot of people have done. If not,

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Speaker 1: your course of courses and programs like that, you know,

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Speaker 1: the consistency seems to help folks, But what is your

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Speaker 1: personal Bible still? Your personal nourishment.

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Speaker 2: I'm you know, I tell people all the time, I

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Speaker 2: can't believe that I get to do what I do.

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Speaker 2: Basically my day involves waking up or reflecting on what

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Speaker 2: I was thinking about all night. You know how it

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Speaker 2: is things wake you up in the middle of the night. Recently,

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Speaker 2: I was trying to think through first Thessalonians five ten

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Speaker 2: in the middle of the night, trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: what's going on there. And so I get to wake

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Speaker 2: up and inter just reflect on the Bible all day,

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Speaker 2: I do, you know, So I use the Greek Hebrew

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Speaker 2: Aramaic text. There's a few sections of Aramic in the Bible,

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Speaker 2: and just try to understand it better so that it

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Speaker 2: changes my life and hopefully changes the lives of those

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Speaker 2: around us. And boy, we need more people handle the

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Speaker 2: word of God will to lead the church. Were in

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Speaker 2: desperate need. We are losing pastors. Not many folks are

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Speaker 2: going into the ministry. Why is that, Well, it's a

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Speaker 2: great question. I think that there's not a lot of

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Speaker 2: glitz to it. It's a hard job. People are hard

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Speaker 2: to deal with sometimes. I think one statistic I heard

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Speaker 2: was that about ten percent of our students are our

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Speaker 2: graduates that go into the full time ministry are still

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Speaker 2: in ministry within five to seven years.

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Speaker 1: And well, you know as well as I do, that

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Speaker 1: pastoring a church, tending a flock is a very different

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Speaker 1: undertaking and a more difficult undertaking than what might be

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Speaker 1: more considerate, you know, in the for a Joel Ostin preaching,

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Speaker 1: whether that be on TV or in a megachurch or

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, the concept of preaching is only one

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Speaker 1: aspect of pastoring. Pastoring is is is is tough because

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Speaker 1: you are really as tending a flock. And that's that's

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Speaker 1: where the heavy lifting comes in in my opinion.

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Speaker 2: Oh sure, yeah, and you can't. You can't pastor the multitudes.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Swindall, Chuck Swindall, famous Bible teacher. I remember one

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Speaker 2: day I was talking with him, and and there's so

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Speaker 2: many I've just benefited from so many profoundly wise people.

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Speaker 2: But one day I was talking to him and I

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Speaker 2: just thanked him for his giant impact that he's had

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Speaker 2: in ministry. And I was thinking about, you know, his

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Speaker 2: insight for living ministry and radio ministry. And he stopped

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Speaker 2: me and he said, let me explain something to you,

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Speaker 2: you know, kind of like when you you you take

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Speaker 2: the little kid in your und your arms. You let

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Speaker 2: me explain something to you very clearly, so you don't

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Speaker 2: misunderstand this. He said, you can impress from afar, but

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Speaker 2: you can only impact up cloth. And I think about

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Speaker 2: that a lot. That uh that that we've we live

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Speaker 2: in this world then, and you know, podcasts do it

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Speaker 2: and video does it, and you can influence a lot

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Speaker 2: of people, But the amount of time that you can

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Speaker 2: actually spend to get to know someone and to to

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Speaker 2: to get deep into their life, and it's not many.

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Speaker 2: And and that's the that's the hard part of pastoring.

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Speaker 2: We were so driven by this megachurch model where we

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Speaker 2: all want to have the giant, biggest churches and the

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Speaker 2: biggest ministries and you know, the podcast that reaches millions

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Speaker 2: and all that stuff. But you know, but in doing that,

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Speaker 2: you pass over the people that are right in front

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Speaker 2: of you, uh that that you should be caring for

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Speaker 2: and you're not. And and so pastoring is hard work

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Speaker 2: and and and it's not often met with the all

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Speaker 2: the praises of the world, and even the praises within

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Speaker 2: the church. Often it's met with criticism. And so it's

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Speaker 2: it's hard work. But but it's very rewarding.

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Speaker 1: One more, one more segment with David Klingler. It's from

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Speaker 1: the King of Ding and this other guy, Michael Barry.

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Speaker 1: This is the kind of guy you'd like to smack

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Speaker 1: an as. I found out recently that David Klingler in

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Speaker 1: a Where Are They Now? Episode VH one style, who

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Speaker 1: was the star quarterback when I was at the University

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Speaker 1: of Houston for the Cougars.

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Speaker 2: He was.

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Speaker 1: Nationally celebrated, a finalist for the Heisman Trophy, beloved following

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Speaker 1: Andrea Ware and numbers even more impressive than Andrea and

431
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: Andre to be the first data Heyday of UH football.

432
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: And I found out that he went to theological seminary,

433
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: got his PhD. And now he's teaching in many different

434
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: roles and one of them is sort of a to

435
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: the general public, and it's called Teach Me Thebible dot Com.

436
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,719
Speaker 1: You can find them online and a podcast, so if

437
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 1: you would like to do that, they do learn the

438
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: Bible in a year. They have a conference. Come yep,

439
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: I noticed, let's talk about the dollars and cents. And

440
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 1: I know people are uncomfortable with that sometimes, but it

441
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 1: is a part of everything we do. It doesn't appear

442
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 1: to me that you're trying to make much, if any

443
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: money off of this thing, because I noticed that the

444
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: conference schedule, a two day conference bee is a whopping

445
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: twenty nine dollars and you have to defray the costs

446
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: of all sorts of things to even put that on.

447
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 1: Is that a conscious decision of you know this this

448
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 1: isn't a business enterprise.

449
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 2: Yes, yes it is. And again I think that you know,

450
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,360
Speaker 2: I want to criticize churches. You know, we do need

451
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: somewhere to meet and all that, but for the most part,

452
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 2: ministry takes no money. It takes time. And so you

453
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 2: know when we said, well we need to do a podcast,

454
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 2: well how much does that does that take? It takes

455
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 2: some people who are committed in some time. It takes

456
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 2: a computer, It takes a couple of of microphones and

457
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 2: and focus to sit in front of them. And so really,

458
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 2: you know, we can do this, this whole ministry for

459
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: a very very small amount, and I've covered that expense,

460
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 2: and and I love what Paul says. It seems like

461
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,239
Speaker 2: we keep going back to the Corinthians, but you know

462
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 2: that Paul works in their midst and and wasn't a

463
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 2: burden to any of them. And the reason why he

464
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 2: does this is so that none of them could say

465
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 2: that his motivation was financial. His motivation was for money.

466
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 2: Everything that he was doing was for the building up

467
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: of the Body of Christ and to benefit the church.

468
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: And so our mission. So often mission statements of an

469
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 2: organization are are stated mission, but they're not the real mission.

470
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 2: Our real mission is to help the people of God

471
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: understand the Word of God. And that's it, and and

472
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 2: we want to do it. It is a labor of love,

473
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 2: and we want to do it for as cheaply as

474
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 2: we can to benefit the church. Let's so we don't

475
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 2: you know, if you want to give, great but you

476
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 2: know we don't need your gifts.

477
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: Let's talk about your life and how you arrived where

478
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: you are. And I'm not building you up as perfect

479
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: I know you will. You would not be comfortable with that.

480
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: It's inconsistent with your teachings. But let's talk about decision

481
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: making in your life. Obviously, you've made some decisions that

482
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: I would consider to be very good decisions. To put

483
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: yourself the ledger of your decision making would be better

484
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 1: than bad. To put yourself in a position where you're

485
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,479
Speaker 1: proud of your kids, You're happy in your marriage. Your

486
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: skills and talents are being put to good use toward

487
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: your faith through your ministry. When you talk to young athletes,

488
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: and you've done that over the years, and you talk

489
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: to young people, what advice Looking back now where you

490
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: are in your fifties, do you say, I wish I'd

491
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: learned this, wish somebody told me this, or these are

492
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: some things that really seem to insonate with young people.

493
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 2: I was so thankful Jack Party, you know, back at

494
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 2: our time at u of H. He was a man

495
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 2: of such unbelievable character. So many great men poured into

496
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: my life, and I really took what they said to

497
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 2: hart and and it troubles me today that we've kind

498
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: of turned our whole culture, specifically sports culture into free agency.

499
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 2: You know, everybody is is a free agent. They're all

500
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 2: working for themselves. We're seeing this in college football, certainly,

501
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 2: it's been around the NFL for you, even in the

502
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 2: youth sports. You know, you got you got six year

503
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: olds play on select teams, and you know they act

504
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 2: as a free agent. And in somewhere in our culture,

505
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 2: we need to learn the concept of individual sacrifice for

506
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 2: mutual benefit. That there is a mission, and nothing worth

507
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 2: achieving is going to be achieved by yourself. It's going

508
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 2: to take a bunch of people, uh single minded in

509
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 2: the mission to try to achieve something greater than yourself.

510
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: And and frankly, I think that's that's why Nick Saban,

511
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 2: I think has left college football. I think that that,

512
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 2: you know, increasingly it's become difficult in our culture to

513
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: find use in these places, and so we're not interested

514
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 2: in personal sacrifice, We're not interested in suffering. We're not

515
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 2: interested in doing anything that's hard, and so we suffer

516
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 2: because of it. That everything that's great that you want

517
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: to achieve in life is going to cause you to suffer.

518
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 2: It's going to be hard, and it's going to take

519
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 2: the help of others to do it. And and so

520
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 2: I'm so proud of my two boys, you know, coaching.

521
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not so sure that pastoring is the

522
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 2: most influential thing in our culture anymore. Maybe at one

523
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 2: time it was sports. I think is probably right at

524
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 2: the top of the list now And at least in

525
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: my life, my coaches had the biggest influence on me.

526
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 2: And so I'm so proud of what they're doing. Uh,

527
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 2: they're they have devoted their their lives not to teaching

528
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 2: football x's and o's or bun and shoot or you know,

529
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 2: some offense or but teaching character. They're They're in the

530
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: character education business, absolutely, and I'm really proud of them

531
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: for that.

532
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: You know, in my life, I think of the people

533
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: who have had the biggest influence, and I still have

534
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: people like this. You know, it was obviously my parents,

535
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: but it was coaches and teachers and administrators and youth

536
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: pastors and pastors and and and more of those were

537
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: outside the church than in. And I think if everybody

538
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: understands the role you have in raising young people, and

539
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: we see the results when we don't do our job.

540
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 1: And maybe that's an avuncular role because you know, our

541
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: brother or sister's kid needs somebody to talk to on occasion,

542
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: or maybe it's a grandparent who steps in on occasion.

543
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people have been afraid

544
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: to do that. And we could spend a lot of

545
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: time on why that is. I'm going to ask you

546
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: as we part, to give me one quick memory of

547
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: play and ball at the University of Houston. That is

548
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: one you will always fondly remember a moment, a game something.

549
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 2: There was a play and I've talked to Andre about this.

550
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 2: It's his favorite play as well. You know, when we

551
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 2: were there together, we were there at the same time.

552
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: We were both fierce competitors, but through that became great friends,

553
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 2: lifelong friends. And so we were playing the University of Texas.

554
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: They played Manda Man almost every play, and so John Jenkins,

555
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: the offensive coordinator, he put in this play where Andre

556
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 2: was going to you know, as we were always at

557
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 2: the line calling the plays, and so he would kind

558
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 2: of wander out to the right and call to play

559
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: to the right, and then he would go to the

560
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 2: left and he would yell out to the receivers at

561
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 2: the left and and as he went out to the left,

562
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 2: we'd snap the ball and I would My job was

563
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 2: to sneak in with the crowd and replace Chuck Witherspoon,

564
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 2: who was the running back. And so I'm back there

565
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: in the shotgun and I catched this snap. And you know,

566
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 2: we were pretty aware that Andre had a pretty good

567
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 2: chance to win the Heisman that year, and he was

568
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: thrown for all kinds of of yards and touchdowns, and

569
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 2: if he could catch a touchdown pass. That would just

570
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 2: be great. And well, I was as nervous as I

571
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 2: could be, because you know, I had to throw this thing,

572
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 2: and so off he goes down the sideline and sure

573
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 2: enough he's wide open and uh, thankfully through a decent ball.

574
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 2: If it'd been a little better, he to score it.

575
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 2: But but but he caught that thing going down the sideline.

576
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 2: It's just a you know, just a great memory that

577
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 2: I that I had.

578
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: And thank you for sharing that, David Klingler. Thank you

579
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: for sharing a few hours of your time with us,

580
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: and thank you for your ministry