WEBVTT - hawk tuah bonus feat. ed zitron

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<v Speaker 1>Also media, Join.

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<v Speaker 2>Sancus sixteen.

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<v Speaker 3>Six six. Welcome back to sixteenth Minute, the podcast where

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<v Speaker 3>we take a look at the Internet's main character and

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<v Speaker 3>see what their moment says about us and the Internet.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm your little host Jamie Loftus taking a little

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<v Speaker 3>bit of a bonus victory lap here after we wrapped

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<v Speaker 3>our recent series on Haley Welch aka the Hawk to

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<v Speaker 3>a Girl. And with these longer series there usually ends

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<v Speaker 3>up being a few interviews or sections that end up

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<v Speaker 3>getting cut for time, but there are some interviews that

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<v Speaker 3>are simply too special to leave. And when it came

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<v Speaker 3>to understanding the hawkcoin crypto scam, I needed all the

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<v Speaker 3>help I could get, and thankfully my pals who know

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<v Speaker 3>about it were right there for me. So today a

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<v Speaker 3>little bonus a conversation with Cool Zone's own ed Zitron.

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<v Speaker 3>Hopefully you know who Ed is already. He's the host

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<v Speaker 3>of the wonderful tech podcast Better Offline and the mind

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<v Speaker 3>behind the popular Where's Your ed At? Newsletter. He's also

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<v Speaker 3>one of the funniest people I know, and I delighted

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<v Speaker 3>in torturing him into telling me what crypto scams mean.

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<v Speaker 3>Here's my conversation with.

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<v Speaker 2>Ed, Well, I'm at Zichron. I'm the host of Better Offline,

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<v Speaker 2>the Cool Zone media tech podcast. I have watched so

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<v Speaker 2>many crypto scams happen. One time, a friend of mine

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<v Speaker 2>was working on a paper for law school about rug

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<v Speaker 2>pulse and said to me, Ed, if you've seen a

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<v Speaker 2>rug pool recently? I said, I'm watching one right now.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you remember which one it was?

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<v Speaker 2>It was called ape coin and it was on the

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<v Speaker 2>Polygon blockchain.

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<v Speaker 3>Molly and I were talking about. She was like, this

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<v Speaker 3>is a very straightforward rug pull. The only reason we're

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<v Speaker 3>talking about it is because it's hac Ta girl and

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<v Speaker 3>everyone thinks she's funny that.

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<v Speaker 2>And also it was fairly egregious. The market cap, and

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<v Speaker 2>the term market cap, as I'm sure Molly's been over,

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<v Speaker 2>is kind of a misnumber. It just means the value

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<v Speaker 2>of the coin times the amount of tokens that are available.

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<v Speaker 2>So at one point it was like half a billion

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<v Speaker 2>dollars value, and then it crashed after the rug pull happened.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, the only remarkable thing is that this person

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<v Speaker 2>is famous. There is somebody that has now had to

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<v Speaker 2>say to their wife, Hey, honey, I've got some bad news,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's about our four oh one k and about

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<v Speaker 2>hawk tour. It's such a weird world we live in

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<v Speaker 2>because there is some romanticization of someone like this, the

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<v Speaker 2>a regular person who was kind of vilified for just

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<v Speaker 2>making a regular garden, gross thing that people say all

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<v Speaker 2>the time on the internet. With someone who will talking

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<v Speaker 2>about a hawk toing on that thing. Yeah, yeah, she

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<v Speaker 2>once said once.

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<v Speaker 3>But is she hear get in the accent?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's that's how you say it. I think someone

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<v Speaker 2>made a really good comment on Twitter about it, saying

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<v Speaker 2>that if Ellen was still around, Ellen would have taken

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<v Speaker 2>this woman down in fifth. She'd got fifteen minutes of

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<v Speaker 2>fame on The Ellen Show and then done for all.

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<v Speaker 3>Of Ellen's crimes. She really did make sure that the

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<v Speaker 3>fame remained contained.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that the hawk tour thing is a wider

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<v Speaker 2>phenomenon as well. You're seeing it with the horrifying cost

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<v Speaker 2>co children as well, where just everything everyone is so desperate,

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<v Speaker 2>Like I have some empathy for these people as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Everyone's so desperate to try and find any because just

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<v Speaker 2>working a regular job is not sufficient enough to like

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<v Speaker 2>rent a house, let alone buy one, and many metros.

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<v Speaker 2>So they of course will see this opportunity and they'll

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<v Speaker 2>juice it as much as they can, but at some

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<v Speaker 2>point there are other people who would like to juice

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<v Speaker 2>it too, And I think that's how we got to

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<v Speaker 2>hawk Coin. Just Jesus Christ, I think what.

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<v Speaker 3>Is kind of surprising me about not just this story,

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<v Speaker 3>but a lot like it is sort of the inherent

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<v Speaker 3>cynicism that there is to these schemes. Yeah, of like, yes,

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<v Speaker 3>you're obviously being grifted, but if you get it on

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<v Speaker 3>the ground floor of this grift, you can grift others just.

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<v Speaker 2>Like exactly, you can ride this grift, because I'm sure

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<v Speaker 2>that's what most people thought. Her whole thing is that

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<v Speaker 2>she is clearly doing a grift. We all know it's

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<v Speaker 2>a grift, but by joining the grift, we too could

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<v Speaker 2>grift with others. But then we become the grift e

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<v Speaker 2>and it's it's a sex society, but it really is

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<v Speaker 2>a sign of a sex society because in a functional

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<v Speaker 2>society this would not be possible. But also so this

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<v Speaker 2>would be immediately like people would just be like, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not touching this. People knew and still did. It's rough where.

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<v Speaker 3>They're like, no, I'm fine with scams. I just didn't

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<v Speaker 3>think I was going to be the victim of this one,

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<v Speaker 3>and now I'm mad.

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<v Speaker 2>You're like, okay, yeah, exactly like I thought I was

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<v Speaker 2>smarter than the people that I was conning by proxy.

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<v Speaker 3>When did this style of grift start?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean which kind? Because are you talking about the

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<v Speaker 2>celebrity one or just the crypto rug pull one.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's just start with the rug pull.

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<v Speaker 2>So it goes back to the mid twenty tens when

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<v Speaker 2>you had something called an ICO and initial coin offering,

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<v Speaker 2>which just means, hey, I am going to build a company.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to start by selling a token, and there

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<v Speaker 2>will be a certain amount of tokens that go out

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<v Speaker 2>and you can buy in at the pre sale level

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<v Speaker 2>and you will get the lowest price, and then when

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<v Speaker 2>it hits exchanges, so a place you can sell or

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<v Speaker 2>buy cryptocurrency really referring to the big ones Finance at

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<v Speaker 2>the time, FDx at the time, and of course coinbase,

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<v Speaker 2>et OL. The goal is that you get in early.

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<v Speaker 2>It was initially sold as some sort of noble thing,

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<v Speaker 2>some part of decentralized software. There was a famous one

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<v Speaker 2>called file coin, for example, where ostensibly you would be

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<v Speaker 2>investing in the early token that would allow you to

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<v Speaker 2>use the decentralized drop box. You may be thinking, I

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<v Speaker 2>already have dropbox, Why would I need this, And the

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<v Speaker 2>answer is I don't know. Now, the ICO craze was

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<v Speaker 2>very big because it was an easy way of getting

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<v Speaker 2>in low and selling high for the people that were

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<v Speaker 2>inside of trading. However, this was the genus of the

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<v Speaker 2>drug ball. I'm sure that there are other ones before it,

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<v Speaker 2>but the Ico craze is one that was very big.

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<v Speaker 2>And then the bottom fell out of the crypto market

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<v Speaker 2>twenty seventeen twenty eight and that kind of went away.

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<v Speaker 2>Now at that point we'd seen the growth of decentralized exchanges.

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<v Speaker 2>So instead of it being I am selling into a

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<v Speaker 2>market controlled by a big party that's sustensibly trustworthy, I

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<v Speaker 2>am now selling to another person. And there are all

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<v Speaker 2>sorts of bots involved in this as well. So you

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<v Speaker 2>started to get at the classic rug pool, which would

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<v Speaker 2>be I have put together a white paper, which is

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<v Speaker 2>just a very long document that claims that the token

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<v Speaker 2>will work like this, and this is how these tokens

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<v Speaker 2>will eventually operate within a company, and then you invest

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<v Speaker 2>in this much like an ICO, and then when we

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<v Speaker 2>put it on an exchange, it will sell for lots

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<v Speaker 2>of money and blah blah blah. The goal of these

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<v Speaker 2>platforms is very rarely to build anything. It's to get

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<v Speaker 2>a bunch of money, and then the owners start selling

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<v Speaker 2>off the tokens. People became more aware of this, so

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<v Speaker 2>people started watching the blockchain and saying, well, wait, you're

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<v Speaker 2>selling all the tokens. So over time rug pools became

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<v Speaker 2>a little less easy to pull off because there are

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<v Speaker 2>really insanely clever people watching. It's a very simple system,

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<v Speaker 2>which is we we as an entity, promise to sell

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<v Speaker 2>you tokens at this low rate, saying we will build

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<v Speaker 2>this company that will grow value, and because of the

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<v Speaker 2>company's growing value, token number will go up. And then

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<v Speaker 2>you just never do the second part with the value creation.

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<v Speaker 2>And also very rare. Is there ever a connection between

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<v Speaker 2>a company and the token. These things don't really exist

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<v Speaker 2>in concert, and indeed, combining them is borderline impossible.

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<v Speaker 3>Because for a while I was like, why do people

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<v Speaker 3>keep falling for this? But it seems like it's more

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<v Speaker 3>that people keep falling for the idea that they could

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<v Speaker 3>potentially get in on the ground floor of a grift

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<v Speaker 3>like this.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and I also think that there is a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of people out there who truly believe that this is

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<v Speaker 2>like investing in the stock market. Yeah, and they're desperate.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think that people realize how desperate the average

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<v Speaker 2>person is in America. In other countries too, you get

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of people in the Global South with this

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<v Speaker 2>who are desperate to get in on this so that

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<v Speaker 2>they can turn their local currency into a US dollar

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<v Speaker 2>or a tokenized version like tether, which is heavily connected

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<v Speaker 2>to money laundering, which is great all other good things

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<v Speaker 2>about this. I think it's really easy and fair, especially

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<v Speaker 2>in the case of Hawktua, to judge everyone who invests

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<v Speaker 2>as kind of a knowing participant in a grift, when

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<v Speaker 2>I think more realistically, you could say half of them were,

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<v Speaker 2>and half of them were just like, God, damn it,

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<v Speaker 2>I just want a fucking chance to do something. I

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<v Speaker 2>just want to. I can't. It's not like you can

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<v Speaker 2>invest in the stock market really make money. You can,

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<v Speaker 2>but day trading is a hell art populated by goblins,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's very difficult to do. I believe it's all desperation.

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<v Speaker 2>I believe it's because most people cannot accumulate wealth, and

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<v Speaker 2>so they see these things that grow in these arbitrary ways,

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<v Speaker 2>and perhaps they know deep down this is broken somehow,

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<v Speaker 2>this is kind of a scam. Maybe, but you know what,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe I can get up, I can get on the

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<v Speaker 2>board through this, I can pull the right levers and

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<v Speaker 2>then some money will come out, because tons of people

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<v Speaker 2>have made money on things like this. Though not specifically this,

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<v Speaker 2>I will say the hawk Doer thing is such an

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<v Speaker 2>egregious rug pull. Even ape chain took a day or two.

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<v Speaker 2>Usually this is the kind of rug pool you see

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<v Speaker 2>someone do a couple of hours on a meme coin

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<v Speaker 2>where everyone knows it's a scam. It used to do

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<v Speaker 2>a few years ago. You'd watch people like launch elon

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<v Speaker 2>rocket coin and go up and it goes down, and

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<v Speaker 2>no one would be really angry because everyone was basically

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<v Speaker 2>playing catch the knife. In this case, it was marketed

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<v Speaker 2>in such a way that I'm pretty sure she violated

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<v Speaker 2>sec rules. If they even slightly suggest, which they absolutely did,

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<v Speaker 2>that this was a thing that you buy into to

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<v Speaker 2>make money, they have violated securities law. And honestly, I

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<v Speaker 2>really hope they get done for it, not just for

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<v Speaker 2>the justice, but because it will be very funny. It'd

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<v Speaker 2>be very very funny but they'll settle. You just have

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<v Speaker 2>this carved out piece of the Internet where people just

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<v Speaker 2>get scammed all the time.

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<v Speaker 3>It seems like there is very little legal repercussion.

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<v Speaker 2>Why is that Because it's quite tough to find the people,

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<v Speaker 2>because it costs a lot of money to litigate these things,

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<v Speaker 2>and because the law is fairly new. The actual Matt

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<v Speaker 2>Levine of Bloomberg said a while ago that basically all

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<v Speaker 2>crypto exchanges that are illegal, they're all illegal, but it's

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<v Speaker 2>such vague law and the SEC is taking so long

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<v Speaker 2>to kind of work out what it is they do,

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<v Speaker 2>it's kind of hard to say what's illegal or not.

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<v Speaker 2>They still are dinging people, and they're dinging them in

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<v Speaker 2>this very arbitrary way. That's kind of fueling these crypto people,

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<v Speaker 2>and it pisses me off because I wish that they

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<v Speaker 2>just have said something. And now we're going into the

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<v Speaker 2>Trump administration, so they'll probably just put a goose and

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<v Speaker 2>a hat as the head of you. And it's also

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<v Speaker 2>very tough to legislate, and there's so much money from

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<v Speaker 2>overseas intermingled with it as well. So many of these

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<v Speaker 2>rug pulls come out of the Global South, and again

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<v Speaker 2>it's a condition of desperation, a symptom of desperation. Even

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<v Speaker 2>it's just the sign that you talk about on this show,

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<v Speaker 2>these magical moments and then the arbitrary and sometimes quite

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<v Speaker 2>aggressive and harmful effects of the attention you get of

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<v Speaker 2>being online. Imagine a million little versions of that all

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<v Speaker 2>the time, with these little celebrities that get people's hopes

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<v Speaker 2>up and steal money from them and then spend their

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<v Speaker 2>lives trying to hide. And now there's other little micro

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<v Speaker 2>wars that happen where people docks them and find them.

0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:26.079
<v Speaker 2>They wouldn't be surprised if someone was killed. But also

0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:27.720
<v Speaker 2>it gets to the core of your show as well,

0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:31.080
<v Speaker 2>where it's like these people become micro celebrities at a

0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.840
<v Speaker 2>time when people feel lonely and isolated and insa you

0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:36.959
<v Speaker 2>can become famous and people can rely on you, and

0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.600
<v Speaker 2>if you actually make these people money, they will love

0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.600
<v Speaker 2>you forever, not a petty king among them.

0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:46.480
<v Speaker 3>I am curious about this lane of scam. I guess

0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:50.680
<v Speaker 3>the influencer to crypto scammer. When did that become common

0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.160
<v Speaker 3>practice because at this point I don't keep an eye

0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.280
<v Speaker 3>on crypto at all, and I recognize this as common practice.

0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:58.520
<v Speaker 2>So you had like Floyd Mayweather and a few other

0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:03.479
<v Speaker 2>celebrities do it. That's what's kind of weird. Usually influencers,

0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:07.560
<v Speaker 2>like actual influencers that regular people know, stayed out of

0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:11.920
<v Speaker 2>this because they realized, oh, this is quasi criminal. You

0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.480
<v Speaker 2>had a few celebrities do it. I can't think of

0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:18.480
<v Speaker 2>another podcaster who has done it like this, because again,

0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.520
<v Speaker 2>you want to avoid this, because suddenly your whole podcast

0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.680
<v Speaker 2>becomes less trustworthy. I was really surprised when I saw

0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:29.280
<v Speaker 2>this was happening, because it's like, why, what year is this?

0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:32.520
<v Speaker 2>This isn't twenty twenty one or twenty twenty when this

0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:34.560
<v Speaker 2>happened all the time and no one was watching because

0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:38.480
<v Speaker 2>everyone was dying. No, it's like twenty twenty four when

0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:42.000
<v Speaker 2>you're really which is probably already making a good amount

0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:44.760
<v Speaker 2>of money on other stuff. I also can't The weirdest

0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.680
<v Speaker 2>thing is usually these things have some sort of made

0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:51.040
<v Speaker 2>up company attached, like a, oh, this token will let

0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:53.640
<v Speaker 2>you on bling blanc. You'll be able to hire a

0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.080
<v Speaker 2>plumb or on bling blanc, and this will be cheaper

0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:58.720
<v Speaker 2>than dollars on bling blanc. But in this case it's

0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:03.760
<v Speaker 2>just buy hawk token. It's usually an NFT of a

0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.040
<v Speaker 2>song or a thing. There's usually a thing that's what's

0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:09.720
<v Speaker 2>so weird here, just being like, oh, I'm gonna do

0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:13.560
<v Speaker 2>a crypto currency that is some twenty seventeen shit.

0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:15.800
<v Speaker 3>I think that the real red flag for me was

0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:18.120
<v Speaker 3>all of a sudden, the proximity to the Paul brothers,

0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:19.760
<v Speaker 3>who like are addicted to, who.

0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.720
<v Speaker 2>Have already done there. There's the crypto zoo and all that.

0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:25.520
<v Speaker 2>But actually that's a good point. So cryptozoo and I

0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:27.560
<v Speaker 2>don't know it's super well even which one of those

0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.480
<v Speaker 2>brothers did it? Forgive me whichever one of the Paul's

0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:33.600
<v Speaker 2>two brothers one name they had like an animal, like

0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.920
<v Speaker 2>a kind of a Pokemon situation, Like you buy into

0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.800
<v Speaker 2>this thing. That's how these things traditionally work. You promise

0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.120
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of stuff that you never do. That is

0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.720
<v Speaker 2>the key part, because when people say where's my money, honey,

0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.160
<v Speaker 2>you say, well, I'm putting it into the cryptozoo.

0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:50.440
<v Speaker 3>That I say, it buys your time.

0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the grimbles, the grackles that you find in the cryptozoo,

0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:55.480
<v Speaker 2>that's where it's going. I must feed them, or the

0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:58.880
<v Speaker 2>developers that I have in a non specific place they

0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.440
<v Speaker 2>are working on the grim busses that will grow in

0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.240
<v Speaker 2>your crypto zoo, and then you can kind of lead

0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.640
<v Speaker 2>them on and hope that they forget. The thing that

0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.640
<v Speaker 2>people don't realize is the Internet never forgets. These psychos

0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.400
<v Speaker 2>will follow you steal someone's money online. There are people

0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:17.200
<v Speaker 2>who will follow you forever. Eventually you piss off someone smart,

0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:22.040
<v Speaker 2>someone animated, and someone bought, and then they learn an

0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:25.920
<v Speaker 2>entire kind of forensic accounting and then they follow you

0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.840
<v Speaker 2>through the blockchain. Just to explain very basic blockchain thing,

0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:31.920
<v Speaker 2>you have a crypto wallet where your money goes these companies.

0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:34.280
<v Speaker 2>When you invest in a rug port, you send money

0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:36.840
<v Speaker 2>to something called a smart contract that has rules coded

0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:40.400
<v Speaker 2>into it that says, okay, this will give the person

0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:43.160
<v Speaker 2>who sends me this much money this many things out

0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:46.440
<v Speaker 2>of it, so very simple. One would be one cent

0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.720
<v Speaker 2>is one hawk. I'm guessing here, so five dollars will

0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.840
<v Speaker 2>get you five hundred hawk. Or if it's an NFT, okay,

0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:56.800
<v Speaker 2>you've given me one etherorum, I will give you ten NFTs. Now,

0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:01.200
<v Speaker 2>these contracts are then spitting the money to other wallets.

0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:03.480
<v Speaker 2>Now teams will always say oh and indeed they did

0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:05.840
<v Speaker 2>in the hawk to a thing. Well, the original team

0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:09.400
<v Speaker 2>can't touch that. They can't touch that money. They obviously

0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.440
<v Speaker 2>can touch the money. You can just do it. They

0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.800
<v Speaker 2>claim that code is law, you can change code. That

0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:18.960
<v Speaker 2>This is a quicker and easier theory theoretically way to

0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.080
<v Speaker 2>make money. Money comes out of it way quicker and

0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:25.640
<v Speaker 2>disappears even faster. And people have made tons of money

0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:30.080
<v Speaker 2>on crypto. When was the last time anyone really like

0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.360
<v Speaker 2>there was like stories about guy makes money honestly trading stock,

0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Guy makes money honestly doing job. No, none of the

0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.640
<v Speaker 2>stories in the media about people who have money are

0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.160
<v Speaker 2>about them like, oh yeah, and I worked really hard

0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:45.960
<v Speaker 2>and then I got one for it. Oh yeah, no,

0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:48.080
<v Speaker 2>not even I would love to hear that if it

0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:51.160
<v Speaker 2>was true, but it really is. So you hear these

0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:55.200
<v Speaker 2>stories about these very irksome looking dickheads who have made

0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:57.560
<v Speaker 2>millions off of crypto, and you're like, shit, I look

0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.800
<v Speaker 2>more normal than this guy, Surely I could. Except just

0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:03.880
<v Speaker 2>like every scam in America, those people already made their money,

0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:06.760
<v Speaker 2>and they made it in a dishonest fashion, right.

0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.560
<v Speaker 3>And they would never be transparent about how.

0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:11.359
<v Speaker 2>And they would also never make their money like this.

0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.639
<v Speaker 2>They would never buy into someone else's scam. They'd make

0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:16.680
<v Speaker 2>their own, and they'd make a better one.

0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.240
<v Speaker 3>Do you think that there will be any meaningful consequence

0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:20.639
<v Speaker 3>for this case?

0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.119
<v Speaker 2>I actually do interesting.

0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:24.000
<v Speaker 3>Okay, tell me more.

0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:26.480
<v Speaker 2>It's a piss poor rug pull. First of all, this

0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:30.760
<v Speaker 2>is shit scam. It's just a dog shit scam. In

0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.879
<v Speaker 2>the event she ever mentioned this on the podcast, she

0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:37.399
<v Speaker 2>is getting digged by the SEC. For sure. If she

0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:41.240
<v Speaker 2>said anything about hawk to or coin on a podcast.

0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:46.320
<v Speaker 2>She has now said, Hey, hey, look SEC, I'm doing

0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:50.000
<v Speaker 2>an illicit security. This is an unregistered security. Check it out.

0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:52.960
<v Speaker 2>That alone will get her in trouble. I don't know

0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.160
<v Speaker 2>how harsh the penalties will be. It really comes down

0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:57.400
<v Speaker 2>to how much money she made.

0:17:57.680 --> 0:17:59.640
<v Speaker 3>One of the numbers I've seen is three point three

0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:00.239
<v Speaker 3>milli in.

0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:04.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh. She may actually she's getting class action suited. The reason,

0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:08.120
<v Speaker 2>by the way that everyone so onerously tries to make

0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:10.520
<v Speaker 2>sure that they don't say this is a cryptocurrency, it's

0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:12.359
<v Speaker 2>a token that will be used in the system, is

0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:16.560
<v Speaker 2>by saying it's a cryptocurrency that's used like a currency,

0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:19.960
<v Speaker 2>you enter into the Howie test, which, as I mentioned previously,

0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.399
<v Speaker 2>is the test the SEC uses to say, is this

0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:26.000
<v Speaker 2>a security If you are selling unreached securities, that's bad,

0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:28.800
<v Speaker 2>that's illegal. And on top of it, if you are

0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:32.399
<v Speaker 2>marketing them, which is different than you are extra fucked

0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:35.000
<v Speaker 2>because they the sec really doesn't like that. And also

0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:38.080
<v Speaker 2>the sec very rarely gets open and shutcases. This is

0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:40.480
<v Speaker 2>one of them. And just like every right wing grifter,

0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:42.439
<v Speaker 2>she's going to assume that the right wing or protect her.

0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:46.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh they won't. She was useful for now talking about

0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:50.600
<v Speaker 2>spitting on that thing, so to speak to financial crimes,

0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:54.719
<v Speaker 2>that's beautiful why this show exists. Also, this isn't a

0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:57.800
<v Speaker 2>complex one. She's so stupid. The fact that it was

0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:00.879
<v Speaker 2>just a coin is so dumb. She should have been like,

0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:02.840
<v Speaker 2>this will let you into the Hawk two of verse,

0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.000
<v Speaker 2>this will let you buy your own Hawk tours, and

0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:08.680
<v Speaker 2>it could have been a series of Hawks. That feels

0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.840
<v Speaker 2>like a very twenty twenty one idea, But this is

0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.280
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four when all the magic and whimsy has

0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:16.880
<v Speaker 2>been sucked out of the financial crimes. Most of these

0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.159
<v Speaker 2>people will never see their money again, and if they do,

0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:21.199
<v Speaker 2>it will take years and years, and there's not going

0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:25.040
<v Speaker 2>to be the kind of media pressure that got FTX back.

0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.000
<v Speaker 2>And also FTX was a very strange situation, so like

0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.600
<v Speaker 2>many rug pulls, all of the victims will lose.

0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:33.040
<v Speaker 3>Here well, I feel amazing.

0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:35.400
<v Speaker 2>I feel great, like this has cheered me up.

0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.119
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much to ed Zitron. You can follow

0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:42.360
<v Speaker 3>him everywhere at ed Zitron and listen to his podcast

0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.879
<v Speaker 3>right here, right now on cool Zone Media better offline

0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:50.400
<v Speaker 3>link in the description. And thank you sixteenth minute listener.

0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:54.240
<v Speaker 3>I hope you've enjoyed this series and that all things considered,

0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:58.480
<v Speaker 3>you're doing all right. Extra huge love to my trans listeners.

0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:01.400
<v Speaker 3>I love you so much and we will be back

0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:08.600
<v Speaker 3>next week. Sixteenth Minute is a production of fool Zone

0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:12.560
<v Speaker 3>Media and iHeart Radiops. It is written, hosted, and produced

0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:16.080
<v Speaker 3>by me. Jamie Rostis. Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman

0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:19.879
<v Speaker 3>and Robert Evans. The amazing Ian Johnson is our supervising

0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:24.399
<v Speaker 3>producer and our editor. Our theme song is by Sad thirteen.

0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.440
<v Speaker 3>Voice acting is from Brant Crater and Pet. Shout outs

0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.400
<v Speaker 3>to our dog producer Anderson, my Kats Flee and Casper

0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:33.760
<v Speaker 3>and my pet Rockbird who will outlive us all.

0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Bye.