1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: Also media, Join. 2 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: Sancus sixteen. 3 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 3: Six six. Welcome back to sixteenth Minute, the podcast where 4 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 3: we take a look at the Internet's main character and 5 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 3: see what their moment says about us and the Internet. 6 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,119 Speaker 3: And I'm your little host Jamie Loftus taking a little 7 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 3: bit of a bonus victory lap here after we wrapped 8 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 3: our recent series on Haley Welch aka the Hawk to 9 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,479 Speaker 3: a Girl. And with these longer series there usually ends 10 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 3: up being a few interviews or sections that end up 11 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 3: getting cut for time, but there are some interviews that 12 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 3: are simply too special to leave. And when it came 13 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 3: to understanding the hawkcoin crypto scam, I needed all the 14 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 3: help I could get, and thankfully my pals who know 15 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 3: about it were right there for me. So today a 16 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 3: little bonus a conversation with Cool Zone's own ed Zitron. 17 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 3: Hopefully you know who Ed is already. He's the host 18 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 3: of the wonderful tech podcast Better Offline and the mind 19 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 3: behind the popular Where's Your ed At? Newsletter. He's also 20 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 3: one of the funniest people I know, and I delighted 21 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 3: in torturing him into telling me what crypto scams mean. 22 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 3: Here's my conversation with. 23 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: Ed, Well, I'm at Zichron. I'm the host of Better Offline, 24 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 2: the Cool Zone media tech podcast. I have watched so 25 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: many crypto scams happen. One time, a friend of mine 26 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: was working on a paper for law school about rug 27 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 2: pulse and said to me, Ed, if you've seen a 28 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: rug pool recently? I said, I'm watching one right now. 29 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 3: Do you remember which one it was? 30 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 2: It was called ape coin and it was on the 31 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: Polygon blockchain. 32 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 3: Molly and I were talking about. She was like, this 33 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 3: is a very straightforward rug pull. The only reason we're 34 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 3: talking about it is because it's hac Ta girl and 35 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 3: everyone thinks she's funny that. 36 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 2: And also it was fairly egregious. The market cap, and 37 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 2: the term market cap, as I'm sure Molly's been over, 38 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 2: is kind of a misnumber. It just means the value 39 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 2: of the coin times the amount of tokens that are available. 40 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 2: So at one point it was like half a billion 41 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: dollars value, and then it crashed after the rug pull happened. 42 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 2: But yeah, the only remarkable thing is that this person 43 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 2: is famous. There is somebody that has now had to 44 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 2: say to their wife, Hey, honey, I've got some bad news, 45 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 2: and it's about our four oh one k and about 46 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: hawk tour. It's such a weird world we live in 47 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 2: because there is some romanticization of someone like this, the 48 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 2: a regular person who was kind of vilified for just 49 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 2: making a regular garden, gross thing that people say all 50 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 2: the time on the internet. With someone who will talking 51 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 2: about a hawk toing on that thing. Yeah, yeah, she 52 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 2: once said once. 53 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 3: But is she hear get in the accent? 54 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 2: Yes, it's that's how you say it. I think someone 55 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 2: made a really good comment on Twitter about it, saying 56 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: that if Ellen was still around, Ellen would have taken 57 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: this woman down in fifth. She'd got fifteen minutes of 58 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 2: fame on The Ellen Show and then done for all. 59 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 3: Of Ellen's crimes. She really did make sure that the 60 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 3: fame remained contained. 61 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 2: I think that the hawk tour thing is a wider 62 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 2: phenomenon as well. You're seeing it with the horrifying cost 63 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: co children as well, where just everything everyone is so desperate, 64 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 2: Like I have some empathy for these people as well. 65 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 2: Everyone's so desperate to try and find any because just 66 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: working a regular job is not sufficient enough to like 67 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: rent a house, let alone buy one, and many metros. 68 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 2: So they of course will see this opportunity and they'll 69 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: juice it as much as they can, but at some 70 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 2: point there are other people who would like to juice 71 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: it too, And I think that's how we got to 72 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: hawk Coin. Just Jesus Christ, I think what. 73 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 3: Is kind of surprising me about not just this story, 74 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 3: but a lot like it is sort of the inherent 75 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 3: cynicism that there is to these schemes. Yeah, of like, yes, 76 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 3: you're obviously being grifted, but if you get it on 77 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 3: the ground floor of this grift, you can grift others just. 78 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 2: Like exactly, you can ride this grift, because I'm sure 79 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 2: that's what most people thought. Her whole thing is that 80 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 2: she is clearly doing a grift. We all know it's 81 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 2: a grift, but by joining the grift, we too could 82 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 2: grift with others. But then we become the grift e 83 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 2: and it's it's a sex society, but it really is 84 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: a sign of a sex society because in a functional 85 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 2: society this would not be possible. But also so this 86 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 2: would be immediately like people would just be like, I'm 87 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: not touching this. People knew and still did. It's rough where. 88 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 3: They're like, no, I'm fine with scams. I just didn't 89 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 3: think I was going to be the victim of this one, 90 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 3: and now I'm mad. 91 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 2: You're like, okay, yeah, exactly like I thought I was 92 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 2: smarter than the people that I was conning by proxy. 93 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 3: When did this style of grift start? 94 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 2: I mean which kind? Because are you talking about the 95 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 2: celebrity one or just the crypto rug pull one. 96 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 3: Let's just start with the rug pull. 97 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 2: So it goes back to the mid twenty tens when 98 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 2: you had something called an ICO and initial coin offering, 99 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 2: which just means, hey, I am going to build a company. 100 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 2: I'm going to start by selling a token, and there 101 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 2: will be a certain amount of tokens that go out 102 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 2: and you can buy in at the pre sale level 103 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 2: and you will get the lowest price, and then when 104 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 2: it hits exchanges, so a place you can sell or 105 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 2: buy cryptocurrency really referring to the big ones Finance at 106 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 2: the time, FDx at the time, and of course coinbase, 107 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 2: et OL. The goal is that you get in early. 108 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 2: It was initially sold as some sort of noble thing, 109 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: some part of decentralized software. There was a famous one 110 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: called file coin, for example, where ostensibly you would be 111 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 2: investing in the early token that would allow you to 112 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 2: use the decentralized drop box. You may be thinking, I 113 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 2: already have dropbox, Why would I need this, And the 114 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 2: answer is I don't know. Now, the ICO craze was 115 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 2: very big because it was an easy way of getting 116 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 2: in low and selling high for the people that were 117 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: inside of trading. However, this was the genus of the 118 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 2: drug ball. I'm sure that there are other ones before it, 119 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 2: but the Ico craze is one that was very big. 120 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 2: And then the bottom fell out of the crypto market 121 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,559 Speaker 2: twenty seventeen twenty eight and that kind of went away. 122 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 2: Now at that point we'd seen the growth of decentralized exchanges. 123 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 2: So instead of it being I am selling into a 124 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: market controlled by a big party that's sustensibly trustworthy, I 125 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 2: am now selling to another person. And there are all 126 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 2: sorts of bots involved in this as well. So you 127 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 2: started to get at the classic rug pool, which would 128 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: be I have put together a white paper, which is 129 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 2: just a very long document that claims that the token 130 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 2: will work like this, and this is how these tokens 131 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 2: will eventually operate within a company, and then you invest 132 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 2: in this much like an ICO, and then when we 133 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 2: put it on an exchange, it will sell for lots 134 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 2: of money and blah blah blah. The goal of these 135 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 2: platforms is very rarely to build anything. It's to get 136 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 2: a bunch of money, and then the owners start selling 137 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 2: off the tokens. People became more aware of this, so 138 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 2: people started watching the blockchain and saying, well, wait, you're 139 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: selling all the tokens. So over time rug pools became 140 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 2: a little less easy to pull off because there are 141 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 2: really insanely clever people watching. It's a very simple system, 142 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: which is we we as an entity, promise to sell 143 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: you tokens at this low rate, saying we will build 144 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: this company that will grow value, and because of the 145 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: company's growing value, token number will go up. And then 146 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 2: you just never do the second part with the value creation. 147 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 2: And also very rare. Is there ever a connection between 148 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: a company and the token. These things don't really exist 149 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 2: in concert, and indeed, combining them is borderline impossible. 150 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 3: Because for a while I was like, why do people 151 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 3: keep falling for this? But it seems like it's more 152 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 3: that people keep falling for the idea that they could 153 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 3: potentially get in on the ground floor of a grift 154 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 3: like this. 155 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 2: Yes, and I also think that there is a lot 156 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 2: of people out there who truly believe that this is 157 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 2: like investing in the stock market. Yeah, and they're desperate. 158 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 2: I don't think that people realize how desperate the average 159 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 2: person is in America. In other countries too, you get 160 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 2: a lot of people in the Global South with this 161 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 2: who are desperate to get in on this so that 162 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 2: they can turn their local currency into a US dollar 163 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 2: or a tokenized version like tether, which is heavily connected 164 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 2: to money laundering, which is great all other good things 165 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 2: about this. I think it's really easy and fair, especially 166 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 2: in the case of Hawktua, to judge everyone who invests 167 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 2: as kind of a knowing participant in a grift, when 168 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 2: I think more realistically, you could say half of them were, 169 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 2: and half of them were just like, God, damn it, 170 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 2: I just want a fucking chance to do something. I 171 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 2: just want to. I can't. It's not like you can 172 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: invest in the stock market really make money. You can, 173 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 2: but day trading is a hell art populated by goblins, 174 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 2: and it's very difficult to do. I believe it's all desperation. 175 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 2: I believe it's because most people cannot accumulate wealth, and 176 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 2: so they see these things that grow in these arbitrary ways, 177 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 2: and perhaps they know deep down this is broken somehow, 178 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 2: this is kind of a scam. Maybe, but you know what, 179 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 2: maybe I can get up, I can get on the 180 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 2: board through this, I can pull the right levers and 181 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 2: then some money will come out, because tons of people 182 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 2: have made money on things like this. Though not specifically this, 183 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 2: I will say the hawk Doer thing is such an 184 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 2: egregious rug pull. Even ape chain took a day or two. 185 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 2: Usually this is the kind of rug pool you see 186 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 2: someone do a couple of hours on a meme coin 187 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 2: where everyone knows it's a scam. It used to do 188 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 2: a few years ago. You'd watch people like launch elon 189 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 2: rocket coin and go up and it goes down, and 190 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,719 Speaker 2: no one would be really angry because everyone was basically 191 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 2: playing catch the knife. In this case, it was marketed 192 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 2: in such a way that I'm pretty sure she violated 193 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 2: sec rules. If they even slightly suggest, which they absolutely did, 194 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 2: that this was a thing that you buy into to 195 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 2: make money, they have violated securities law. And honestly, I 196 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 2: really hope they get done for it, not just for 197 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 2: the justice, but because it will be very funny. It'd 198 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 2: be very very funny but they'll settle. You just have 199 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,839 Speaker 2: this carved out piece of the Internet where people just 200 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 2: get scammed all the time. 201 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 3: It seems like there is very little legal repercussion. 202 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 2: Why is that Because it's quite tough to find the people, 203 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 2: because it costs a lot of money to litigate these things, 204 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 2: and because the law is fairly new. The actual Matt 205 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 2: Levine of Bloomberg said a while ago that basically all 206 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 2: crypto exchanges that are illegal, they're all illegal, but it's 207 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 2: such vague law and the SEC is taking so long 208 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 2: to kind of work out what it is they do, 209 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 2: it's kind of hard to say what's illegal or not. 210 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 2: They still are dinging people, and they're dinging them in 211 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 2: this very arbitrary way. That's kind of fueling these crypto people, 212 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 2: and it pisses me off because I wish that they 213 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 2: just have said something. And now we're going into the 214 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 2: Trump administration, so they'll probably just put a goose and 215 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 2: a hat as the head of you. And it's also 216 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 2: very tough to legislate, and there's so much money from 217 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 2: overseas intermingled with it as well. So many of these 218 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 2: rug pulls come out of the Global South, and again 219 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 2: it's a condition of desperation, a symptom of desperation. Even 220 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 2: it's just the sign that you talk about on this show, 221 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,959 Speaker 2: these magical moments and then the arbitrary and sometimes quite 222 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 2: aggressive and harmful effects of the attention you get of 223 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 2: being online. Imagine a million little versions of that all 224 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 2: the time, with these little celebrities that get people's hopes 225 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 2: up and steal money from them and then spend their 226 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 2: lives trying to hide. And now there's other little micro 227 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 2: wars that happen where people docks them and find them. 228 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 2: They wouldn't be surprised if someone was killed. But also 229 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 2: it gets to the core of your show as well, 230 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 2: where it's like these people become micro celebrities at a 231 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 2: time when people feel lonely and isolated and insa you 232 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:36,959 Speaker 2: can become famous and people can rely on you, and 233 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 2: if you actually make these people money, they will love 234 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 2: you forever, not a petty king among them. 235 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 3: I am curious about this lane of scam. I guess 236 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 3: the influencer to crypto scammer. When did that become common 237 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 3: practice because at this point I don't keep an eye 238 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 3: on crypto at all, and I recognize this as common practice. 239 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 2: So you had like Floyd Mayweather and a few other 240 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:03,479 Speaker 2: celebrities do it. That's what's kind of weird. Usually influencers, 241 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 2: like actual influencers that regular people know, stayed out of 242 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 2: this because they realized, oh, this is quasi criminal. You 243 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 2: had a few celebrities do it. I can't think of 244 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 2: another podcaster who has done it like this, because again, 245 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 2: you want to avoid this, because suddenly your whole podcast 246 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 2: becomes less trustworthy. I was really surprised when I saw 247 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 2: this was happening, because it's like, why, what year is this? 248 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 2: This isn't twenty twenty one or twenty twenty when this 249 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 2: happened all the time and no one was watching because 250 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: everyone was dying. No, it's like twenty twenty four when 251 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 2: you're really which is probably already making a good amount 252 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 2: of money on other stuff. I also can't The weirdest 253 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 2: thing is usually these things have some sort of made 254 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 2: up company attached, like a, oh, this token will let 255 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 2: you on bling blanc. You'll be able to hire a 256 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 2: plumb or on bling blanc, and this will be cheaper 257 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 2: than dollars on bling blanc. But in this case it's 258 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 2: just buy hawk token. It's usually an NFT of a 259 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 2: song or a thing. There's usually a thing that's what's 260 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 2: so weird here, just being like, oh, I'm gonna do 261 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 2: a crypto currency that is some twenty seventeen shit. 262 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 3: I think that the real red flag for me was 263 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 3: all of a sudden, the proximity to the Paul brothers, 264 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 3: who like are addicted to, who. 265 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 2: Have already done there. There's the crypto zoo and all that. 266 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 2: But actually that's a good point. So cryptozoo and I 267 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 2: don't know it's super well even which one of those 268 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 2: brothers did it? Forgive me whichever one of the Paul's 269 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 2: two brothers one name they had like an animal, like 270 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 2: a kind of a Pokemon situation, Like you buy into 271 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 2: this thing. That's how these things traditionally work. You promise 272 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 2: a bunch of stuff that you never do. That is 273 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 2: the key part, because when people say where's my money, honey, 274 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 2: you say, well, I'm putting it into the cryptozoo. 275 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 3: That I say, it buys your time. 276 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, the grimbles, the grackles that you find in the cryptozoo, 277 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 2: that's where it's going. I must feed them, or the 278 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 2: developers that I have in a non specific place they 279 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 2: are working on the grim busses that will grow in 280 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 2: your crypto zoo, and then you can kind of lead 281 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 2: them on and hope that they forget. The thing that 282 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: people don't realize is the Internet never forgets. These psychos 283 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 2: will follow you steal someone's money online. There are people 284 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 2: who will follow you forever. Eventually you piss off someone smart, 285 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 2: someone animated, and someone bought, and then they learn an 286 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 2: entire kind of forensic accounting and then they follow you 287 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 2: through the blockchain. Just to explain very basic blockchain thing, 288 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 2: you have a crypto wallet where your money goes these companies. 289 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 2: When you invest in a rug port, you send money 290 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 2: to something called a smart contract that has rules coded 291 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 2: into it that says, okay, this will give the person 292 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 2: who sends me this much money this many things out 293 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 2: of it, so very simple. One would be one cent 294 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 2: is one hawk. I'm guessing here, so five dollars will 295 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 2: get you five hundred hawk. Or if it's an NFT, okay, 296 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 2: you've given me one etherorum, I will give you ten NFTs. Now, 297 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 2: these contracts are then spitting the money to other wallets. 298 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 2: Now teams will always say oh and indeed they did 299 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 2: in the hawk to a thing. Well, the original team 300 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 2: can't touch that. They can't touch that money. They obviously 301 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 2: can touch the money. You can just do it. They 302 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 2: claim that code is law, you can change code. That 303 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: This is a quicker and easier theory theoretically way to 304 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 2: make money. Money comes out of it way quicker and 305 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 2: disappears even faster. And people have made tons of money 306 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 2: on crypto. When was the last time anyone really like 307 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 2: there was like stories about guy makes money honestly trading stock, 308 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 2: Guy makes money honestly doing job. No, none of the 309 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 2: stories in the media about people who have money are 310 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 2: about them like, oh yeah, and I worked really hard 311 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 2: and then I got one for it. Oh yeah, no, 312 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 2: not even I would love to hear that if it 313 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 2: was true, but it really is. So you hear these 314 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 2: stories about these very irksome looking dickheads who have made 315 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 2: millions off of crypto, and you're like, shit, I look 316 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: more normal than this guy, Surely I could. Except just 317 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 2: like every scam in America, those people already made their money, 318 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 2: and they made it in a dishonest fashion, right. 319 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 3: And they would never be transparent about how. 320 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 2: And they would also never make their money like this. 321 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 2: They would never buy into someone else's scam. They'd make 322 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 2: their own, and they'd make a better one. 323 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 3: Do you think that there will be any meaningful consequence 324 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 3: for this case? 325 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 2: I actually do interesting. 326 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 3: Okay, tell me more. 327 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 2: It's a piss poor rug pull. First of all, this 328 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 2: is shit scam. It's just a dog shit scam. In 329 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 2: the event she ever mentioned this on the podcast, she 330 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 2: is getting digged by the SEC. For sure. If she 331 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 2: said anything about hawk to or coin on a podcast. 332 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 2: She has now said, Hey, hey, look SEC, I'm doing 333 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 2: an illicit security. This is an unregistered security. Check it out. 334 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 2: That alone will get her in trouble. I don't know 335 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 2: how harsh the penalties will be. It really comes down 336 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 2: to how much money she made. 337 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 3: One of the numbers I've seen is three point three 338 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:00,239 Speaker 3: milli in. 339 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 2: Oh. She may actually she's getting class action suited. The reason, 340 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 2: by the way that everyone so onerously tries to make 341 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 2: sure that they don't say this is a cryptocurrency, it's 342 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 2: a token that will be used in the system, is 343 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 2: by saying it's a cryptocurrency that's used like a currency, 344 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 2: you enter into the Howie test, which, as I mentioned previously, 345 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 2: is the test the SEC uses to say, is this 346 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 2: a security If you are selling unreached securities, that's bad, 347 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 2: that's illegal. And on top of it, if you are 348 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 2: marketing them, which is different than you are extra fucked 349 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 2: because they the sec really doesn't like that. And also 350 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 2: the sec very rarely gets open and shutcases. This is 351 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 2: one of them. And just like every right wing grifter, 352 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 2: she's going to assume that the right wing or protect her. 353 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 2: Oh they won't. She was useful for now talking about 354 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 2: spitting on that thing, so to speak to financial crimes, 355 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,719 Speaker 2: that's beautiful why this show exists. Also, this isn't a 356 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 2: complex one. She's so stupid. The fact that it was 357 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 2: just a coin is so dumb. She should have been like, 358 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 2: this will let you into the Hawk two of verse, 359 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 2: this will let you buy your own Hawk tours, and 360 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 2: it could have been a series of Hawks. That feels 361 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 2: like a very twenty twenty one idea, But this is 362 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four when all the magic and whimsy has 363 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 2: been sucked out of the financial crimes. Most of these 364 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 2: people will never see their money again, and if they do, 365 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 2: it will take years and years, and there's not going 366 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 2: to be the kind of media pressure that got FTX back. 367 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 2: And also FTX was a very strange situation, so like 368 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 2: many rug pulls, all of the victims will lose. 369 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 3: Here well, I feel amazing. 370 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 2: I feel great, like this has cheered me up. 371 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 3: Thank you so much to ed Zitron. You can follow 372 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 3: him everywhere at ed Zitron and listen to his podcast 373 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 3: right here, right now on cool Zone Media better offline 374 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 3: link in the description. And thank you sixteenth minute listener. 375 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 3: I hope you've enjoyed this series and that all things considered, 376 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 3: you're doing all right. Extra huge love to my trans listeners. 377 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 3: I love you so much and we will be back 378 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 3: next week. Sixteenth Minute is a production of fool Zone 379 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 3: Media and iHeart Radiops. It is written, hosted, and produced 380 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 3: by me. Jamie Rostis. Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman 381 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 3: and Robert Evans. The amazing Ian Johnson is our supervising 382 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 3: producer and our editor. Our theme song is by Sad thirteen. 383 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 3: Voice acting is from Brant Crater and Pet. Shout outs 384 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 3: to our dog producer Anderson, my Kats Flee and Casper 385 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 3: and my pet Rockbird who will outlive us all. 386 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 2: Bye.