1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:02,719 Speaker 1: For a time. We tried to contact him by radio, 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: but no response. Then they attacked a town, a small town, 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: I'll admit, but nevertheless a town of people, people who died. 4 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: Ephemeralist production of My Heart three D A for full 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: exposure Listen was that phones. Every so often an artist 6 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: comes along who challenges the core tenets of their medium, 7 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: raising questions like is there such a thing as objective 8 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: quality in art? What makes something good art or bad are? 9 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: And who's to tell the difference. One such figure was 10 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: director Edward D. Wood Jr. A legend of genre films 11 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: from the nineteen fifties and sixties. Some would say he's 12 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: the worst director of all time. Others might label Edward 13 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: as a groundbreaking visionary who did things no other Hollywood 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: contemporary could do. Some are still not sure what to 15 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: think today. Ephemeral producer Trevor Young takes us on a 16 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: journey through Woods filmography and wades into the decades old 17 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: debate on the director's unique output. It was the year 18 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: nineteen Hollywood filmmaking was at an all time high, with 19 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: releases that year including The Shining I Said I'm not 20 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: gonna hurt you, I'm just gonna bash your brains and 21 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: star wars. The Empire strikes back equally you I am 22 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: your father. But despite the recent abundance of fantastic cinema, 23 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: film critic brothers Harry and Michael Medved decided they would 24 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: highlight something else, the worst of the worst in film. 25 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: So that year the Medved brothers published a book called 26 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: the Golden Turkey Awards, featuring winners for categories like worst 27 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: performance by a politician, Well you can't you tell me 28 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: here now, or I'll drag you up before the Senate 29 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: and you'll tell me there. And most embarrassing movie debut. 30 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: How could you a Roman magistrate believe that perjurer? A 31 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: sniveling little toady look at him fawning on Linus, waiting 32 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: for his reward. The worst director was Edward D. Wood Jr. 33 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 1: And the worst film was Wood's nineteen fifty nine sci 34 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: fi film Plan nine from Outer Space. Greetings, my friend, 35 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: we are all interested in the future, for that is 36 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: where you and I are going to spend the rest 37 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:45,519 Speaker 1: of our lives. And remember, my friend, utual events such 38 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: as the will affect you in the future. But despite 39 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: being labeled as the worst director and having the worst film, 40 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: of all time. Edwood is insanely popular even today. His 41 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: films are still played in theaters around the country and 42 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: they appear regularly on TV. Tim Burton directed a biopick 43 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: about would aptly called ed Wood, starring Johnny Depp. Well, 44 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: Mr Wise, look no further. I'm your man. I worked fast, 45 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: and I'm a deal. I write and direct and I'm good. 46 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: I just did a play in Hollywood, and Victor Crowley 47 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,519 Speaker 1: himself praised its realism. And on the Internet you'll find 48 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: legions of Wood fans dedicated to talking about his work 49 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: or collecting Edward. I myself find his work inspirational because 50 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: he did so much with so little. He had so 51 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: many things against him, but he was able to create 52 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: films that tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of 53 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: people saw in their initial release, not even counting the 54 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: revival of them later. So he's a figure whose work entertains, 55 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: who's worked, his thought provoked in and who inspires people 56 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: to create today. What more could you ask for for 57 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: a legacy? My name is Bill Shoot, poet and professor 58 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: of English at San Antonio College, and I wrote the 59 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: introduction to the new book by Edward Jr. When the 60 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: topic is sex. A five hundred forty five page collection 61 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: of Woods non fiction articles for nineteen seventies adult magazines 62 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:36,799 Speaker 1: published by Bear Manner Media. As you can tell Bill 63 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: Adores Edwood. I discovered edwoods work in the late sixties 64 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: or early nineteen seventies as a child, watching low budget 65 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: films and horror films on UHF television and independent TV stations. 66 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: The films I saw on television prior to any Edward 67 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: revival were, of course, Bride of the Monster and Plan 68 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: nine from Outer Space, and I certainly knew that those 69 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: were unique works. I probably saw them at least a 70 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: half dozen times on television, So when Edwards started getting 71 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: attention in the late seventies, I was very excited to 72 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:23,119 Speaker 1: see more of his films and to learn more about him. 73 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: Bill sites those two films, Bright of the Monster and 74 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: Plan nine from Outer Space as his favorites by Edwood. 75 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: In Plan Nine, there was just something special, almost dream 76 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: like about that film. It puts you almost in an 77 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: alternate state of consciousness. People turning south in the freeway 78 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: were startled when they saw three flying saucers high over 79 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: Hollywood Boulevard. Bride of the Monster was a more conventional 80 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: film than Plan nine from Outer Space, but that had 81 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: some amazing sequences in it. I Haven't No Home like 82 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: Bella Legosie's soliloquity where he talks about I have no Home. 83 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: I think that moved me to tears as a child 84 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: when I saw that on television living like Animal Jungle, 85 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: that I will show the world that I can beat fasta. So, 86 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: just from being introduced to those films, I knew Edward D. 87 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 1: Wood Jr. Was someone I wanted to see more of 88 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: and no more about. Those are glowing reviews you might 89 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: not expect for someone commonly regarded as the worst director 90 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: of all time. So what's going on here? Who is 91 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: Edward really? And how did the director of low budget 92 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 1: sci fi films from the nineteen fifties become such a 93 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: cult phenomenon. Well, let's start by learning a little bit 94 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: about what's background. Well, he was from Poughkeepsie, New York, 95 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: which is upstate. After serving in the Marine Corps in 96 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: World War Two, he went to Hollywood, as so many 97 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: people did, and he had some background in drama. He'd 98 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: written to play Casual Company. Do you believe in ghosts? Tommy? 99 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: That's just kiddie spook stories. Once You're dead, stayed dead. 100 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: I don't know Bill on that battlefield today, I saw 101 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: this woman and dressed in white floating above the dunes. 102 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: Or maybe it was just fatigue, or maybe it's the 103 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: indignities of war, or maybe it's something else. He went 104 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: to Hollywood and did sort of day work around the studios, 105 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: and he started a production company in nineteen forty seven 106 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: or nine with a man named Crawford John Thomas. They 107 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: made a short silent called Crossroads of Laredo, which has survived, 108 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: and it looks very much like a low budget sound 109 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: western of the early thirties or silent from the late twenties. 110 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: Wood grew up on that kind of thing, and he 111 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: used a lot of supporting players who had been in 112 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: little budget independent westerns in his films. Throughout his career, 113 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: he also made some commercials which are rather novel. He 114 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: and Crawford Thomas came up with an idea for doing 115 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: little dramatic commercials that did not actually have the name 116 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: of the sponsor. Just one thing before you shoot, but yeah, 117 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: bury me with my boots on okay tech, Say what 118 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: do you get some boots? Mighty fine looking Footwell, why 119 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: I got these at the bus shoe store in town 120 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: and had a mighty fair price through Well, bar gone 121 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: about putting me down to that shoe store right now. 122 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 1: It would be like an ad for jewelry, and it 123 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: would be about a diamond or whatever, and the local 124 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: sponsor would cut in their name to this, and now 125 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: we would sail away. Then we will be the only 126 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,719 Speaker 1: ones to know where that fine turns your chest of 127 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: jewelry is buried. One day we'll come back and dig 128 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:37,719 Speaker 1: it up and live like Queen Rye passing Kitty. That 129 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: test is checked full of the most beautiful jewelry in 130 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 1: all the world. Sure hope that story never runs out 131 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: of that fine stuck And he made some other short films, 132 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: and he made some pilots for television, things that were 133 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: aired locally. Industrial film work, the usual things that someone 134 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: does as they're working their way into the lower wrong 135 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: of independent film and genre filmmaking. Tegot the old timer, 136 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: I'll get a doctor, I Am for me to. Edward 137 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: wrote and co wrote some westerns during this period for Again, 138 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: an independent low budget film Cowboy, by the name of 139 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: Johnny Carpenter, and Carpenter later appeared in Edward Films. They 140 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: had a long relationship. No Timer, I'm not writing. I'm 141 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: going to stay here and find out what's going on 142 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: at the Double D ranch. Around this time, Edwood met 143 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: Bella Legosi, known best for his iconic role as Dracula 144 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: in the film of the same name. I Am the 145 00:10:52,960 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: document Listen to Them Children Off the Night what Music named. 146 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: Legosi was one of Wood's childhood heroes, so Wood befriended 147 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: him and asked Legosi to star in one of his movies. 148 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: At the time, Legosi was older and mostly out of work, 149 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: so he agreed, and with Legosi on board, Edward was 150 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: able to secure funding for his first feature film in 151 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three, Glenn or Glenda Man's Constant Growthing of 152 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: Things Unknown, drawing from the endless reaches of time brings 153 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: to light many startling things. His first film, Glenn or Glenda, 154 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 1: made for the producer George Weiss. Weiss had previously released 155 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: a film called Test two Babies that he had produced 156 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,839 Speaker 1: the Doctor Wright. Has there been much work done in 157 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: this artificial examination field? I mean, is it just to 158 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: be a radical thing or has it been done before? 159 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,319 Speaker 1: A tremendous amount of work has been done an artificial exsemination. 160 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: Mrs Bennett, I'll admit it. Up to the past few years, 161 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,719 Speaker 1: a great majority of it has been done with livestock. 162 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: And in a sense, glennar Glenda was mining the same 163 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: vein as that. A kind of salacious, exploitative title. And 164 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:41,719 Speaker 1: glennar Glenda was originally conceived as a film about Christine Jorgensen, 165 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: who had had a sex change operation and was in 166 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,599 Speaker 1: the news at the time. She did not care to 167 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: work with George Weiss on a film, so Edwood and 168 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: Weiss came up with the concept of dealing with a 169 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 1: cross dressing in individual. He dares to enter the street 170 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: dressed in the clothes he so much desires to wear. 171 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: Glenn is engaged to be married to Barbara. Glenn's problem 172 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: is a deep one, but he must tell her soon. 173 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: She's begun to notice things. And of course ed Wood 174 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: was a person who dressed in women's clothing in his 175 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: own life. Anyone who has seen the Tim Burton film 176 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: ed Wood is likely familiar with this fact. I like 177 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: to dress in women's clothing your fruit, No, not at all. 178 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: I love women. Wearing their clothes makes me feel closer 179 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 1: to them. No, I'm all man. I even fought in 180 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: w W two. Of course, I was wearing women's undergarments 181 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: under my uniform. One of Edward's most interesting quirks was 182 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: his subversive and public desire to wear women's clothing what 183 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: today we might call drag. Back then, they might have 184 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: used the outdated and somewhat derogatory term transvestite. Nature makes mistake. 185 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: It's proven every day. This person is a transvestite, a 186 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: man who is more comfortable wearing girls clothes. The term 187 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: transvestite is the name given by medical science to those 188 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: persons who wear the clothing of the opposite sex. Many 189 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: a transvestite actually wishes to be the opposite sex. The 190 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: title of this can only be labeled behind locked doors. 191 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: Give this man satin undis, a dress, a sweater and 192 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: a skirt, or even the lounging outfit he has on, 193 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: and he's the happiest individual in the world. He can 194 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: work better, think better, he can play better, and he 195 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: can do more of a credit to his community and 196 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: his government because he is happy. So he basically wrote 197 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: a film that dealt with that, but at the same 198 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: time dealt with the sex change element. Because of Christine 199 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: Jordan's a lot of people who see Glenn or Glenn 200 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: to feel that it's kind of schizophrenic in this sense 201 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: that cross dressing and sex change are kind of not 202 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: the same thing at all. But in a way, the 203 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: film really explores gender identity and gender fluidity, which of 204 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: course can't be narrowed down to a couple of simple 205 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: terms or a couple of simple categories. But glennar Glendo 206 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: was his first feature film as a director, and my opinion, 207 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: if he never made anything else, he would still be 208 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: remembered well, just for that film. In the ed Wood fandom, 209 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: there are some interesting theories as to where Ed's cross 210 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: dressing originated. So supposedly Ed's mom wanted a girl, and 211 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: as a young kid dressed Ed in girl's clothing. Others 212 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: say that one of his favorite things as a young 213 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: child was a soft fur sweater. I don't know if 214 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: it was an Angora sweater, something soft and furry, that 215 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: kind of at that pattern for that fetish for the 216 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: rest of his life, for his fetish Friendora, But that 217 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,479 Speaker 1: was a part of him. My name is Bob Blackburn. 218 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: I was a friend of Edwards widow Cathy Wood, and 219 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: technically I am one of her airs, which makes me 220 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: one of Edwood's heirs. Bob has a ton of insight 221 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: into the personal lives of Ed and Cathy would He 222 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: says that before Kathy, Ed had a girlfriend named to 223 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: Lauras Fuller, who actually started Glenna Glenda. Those fingernails have 224 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: got to go, you know, I didn't realize there as 225 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: long as they are. My goodness, they're almost as long 226 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: as mine, maybe even prettier. We'll have to paint them 227 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: sometime just for the fun of it. Will trim them, 228 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: that's for sure. The two of them fell in love 229 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: and they moved in together, and she actually had a 230 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: couple of kids from a previous marriage, so it was 231 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: kind of a messy situation, kind of up until Doris 232 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: found out that Ed was wearing her Anglora sweaters. She 233 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: didn't know if that might be gay, might be a pervert. 234 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 1: I mean, in her mind he was a pervert. Therefore 235 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: she just she kicked him out. But then Wood met 236 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: Kathy O'Hara. The night that they actually met and got together, 237 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 1: she went home with him to his apartment because did 238 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: the old you know, hey, you want to see my 239 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: scrap books, And he really did have scrap books of 240 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: his films and stuff like that. And she went in 241 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: to use his bathroom and she noticed there was like 242 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: women's lingerie hanging off the show art pole, and so 243 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: you know, she thought, oh god, he's got a girlfriend. 244 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: So she comes out and she says, hey, I do 245 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: you have a girlfriend? You know, I kind of don't 246 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: want to get too far along here if I'm gonna 247 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: get in somebody's way. So Ed confided the first night 248 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: to Kathy, the first night that they actually met, that 249 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: he liked to sometimes wear a women's clothing. Do you 250 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: if you have a problem with it, well, you know, 251 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,719 Speaker 1: here's your chance to walk out the door and whatever. 252 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: And she thought about it, and here's a woman from 253 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: provincial Canada, Vancouver. She'd been a corporate secretary, has seen 254 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: a little bit of the world if you can call 255 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: Canada and Toronto, New York and then l a a 256 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: little bit of the world. And she accepted it, and 257 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: she accepted it for the rest of their time together. 258 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: She wasn't maybe always happy with it, because he kind 259 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 1: of flaunted it from time to time. In the nineteen fifties, 260 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: glennar Glenda raised a lot of questions about Ed's sexuality. 261 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: I asked Bob for his take on the matter and 262 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: to clear it up for us. He was not gay, 263 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: he was not trans. And it's kind of interesting the 264 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: gay community kind of has him as a bit of 265 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: an icon. So many of his friends, Paul Marco, Criswell, 266 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: other people, and his circle of friends were gay. Because 267 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: he himself was such an outsider, he attracted outsiders who 268 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: knew that he would be a steadfast friend, and he 269 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: had his alter ego named Shirley. Ed wasn't averse to 270 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: going out in public as shortly. Cathy told me stories 271 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: that they would go to Hollywood parties where there would 272 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: be some stars all dressed in dragon they'd be talking 273 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: about their big, nice long gloves and their first soles, 274 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: and you know, the him and their stockings and whatnot. So, 275 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: I mean, Eddie was really a pioneer, especially because in 276 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: the fifties in early sixties you could get arrested for 277 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: that here in California, in Los Angeles. But by the 278 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: mid late sixties it became legal. And he mentions that 279 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: in some of these articles about transvestives, and and he'll say, well, 280 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: now that California has legalized it, you'll see a lot 281 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: more men being dressed as women walking parading around the 282 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: streets of Hollywood, which is what he did. According to 283 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: Bill Shoot, that struggle for acceptance is explored in a 284 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: surprisingly well and nuanced way in Under Glenda. One thing 285 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: that makes glennar Glenda quite different from the sex exploitation 286 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: films of the late forties and nineteen fifties is that 287 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: it doesn't have much of a slee's factor to it, 288 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 1: and the empathy that it has for the subject is unique. 289 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: And again, to have the director himself play the lead 290 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 1: character and do a good portion of the film and 291 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: drag himself is an amazing accomplishment. Forty three. I was 292 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: put in jail recently. Why because I, a man, was 293 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: caught on the street wearing women's clothing. This was my 294 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 1: fourth arrest for the same act. In life, I must 295 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: continue wearing them. Therefore, it would only be a matter 296 00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: of time until my next rest. This is the only 297 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: way let my body rest in death forever, in the 298 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: things I cannot wear in life. Why are you taking 299 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: that gun? Why? I might be walking down a dark 300 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: street and then robber might jump at me. I want 301 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: to be protected. I just paid a thousand dollars bail 302 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 1: because you carried one of those things tonight were sisters. 303 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: I was very sisterly on it. You know that gun 304 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: is jail baiting. Edward's next feature film, Jail Bait, was 305 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,719 Speaker 1: a little different. Who was about a young man who 306 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: gets involved with a dangerous criminal, resulting in a robbery 307 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: gone horribly wrong. I thank you thinking get away with it. 308 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: Let us worry about that, but come through tonight man, 309 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: I'll be on. Most of edwoods films are the ed 310 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: Wood attempt to work in an existing genre, and of 311 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: course this would be the crime film. It's certainly a 312 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: novel film. The ending of it is unexpected. It's a 313 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: strange film in that the soundtrack, the kind of flamenco 314 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: guitar and keyboard soundtrack, is kind of off putting. And 315 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: also so much of the film is murky and dark 316 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 1: and either shooting at night or looking like it's shot 317 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: at night, that it creates a kind of dream like 318 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 1: fuel to it. And it's a unique product. I've probably 319 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: watched it fifteen or twenty times over the years, and 320 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: I always find it fascinating. Had I seen that on 321 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 1: a double bill and four or fifty five I would 322 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: have thought it was a satisfying and different kind of experience. 323 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: I think it definitely succeeded. And while it has a 324 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: lot of the tropes we associate with ed Wood, on 325 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: its own it's an interesting, low budget crime film and 326 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: it works on that level. Basically, you're as finished as 327 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: a kid is. I wasn't in on your job. I'm 328 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: not in trouble. Why should I used to go on 329 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: and take what's left? What is left has been with 330 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: a gun, has been, baby, I've only just begun. I 331 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: didn't set you up in all this luxury just to 332 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: have your walk out on me. I pulled you out 333 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: of that main street dive and made something out of you. No, 334 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: you're not gonna walk out on me. Try it nice 335 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: where you'll never walk out on it. And again, so 336 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: if they do pick me up, it's only a robbery rap. 337 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: I didn't kill that cop. Nobody will know about the 338 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: kid there. Next up was one of bill favorites, Bright 339 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: of the Monster. What are you doing to me? We 340 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: would assumed as speak of the giant straight a waity 341 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: men like all the others did. That was a film 342 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 1: that was shown a lot on television when I was Young. 343 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: It's a classic independent, low budget horror film. I think 344 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: it's very much rooted in the Bella Legosi Monogram films 345 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: of the early forties, and I'm sure Edwood loved those 346 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: films because it's very much like them, and it's like 347 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: the roles that Legozi played in those films. They were 348 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: like a step above what Edwood was making in terms 349 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: of budget, but they were still very low budget quickie films. 350 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: I'm really happy that he had the opportunity to do 351 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: a starring vehicle for Bella Legosi where he could be 352 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: at his best. I am I'm not the Eric ornav 353 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: You had a severe How did I get here? Oh 354 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 1: that's not important for the moment. What you need now 355 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: is rest rest. He was clearly a friend and supporter 356 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: and fan of Bella Lagosi, and I'm sure it made 357 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: would extremely happy to give him a vehicle where he 358 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 1: could do his thing. If you look at the trailers 359 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: for that film, whoever wrote the copy refers to Legosi 360 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: as the screens master of the Weird, so he knew 361 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: what a gift he had with Bella Legosi. He created 362 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: a great low budget laboratory and of course all you 363 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: need is, the flashing lights and some beaker's. It was 364 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: a classic mad doctor's laboratory. And of course you had 365 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 1: the amazing Toward Johnson. Toward Johnson was a Swedish wrestler 366 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 1: and actor who would discovered and befriended. At six ft 367 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 1: three and over four hundred pounds, Johnson's hulking figure made 368 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: him perfect for the monster rules in Woods movies. So 369 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: you had a monster in it, you had a mad 370 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: doctor in it, you had murky lightning, flashing, and all 371 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: the kind of set pieces that you would need for 372 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: a horror film. Now it had some quirky elements to it. 373 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: It also had the earnestness that you see in some 374 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: of the Edward films where he had a message, he 375 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: managed to shoehorn in some of his philosophical gropings into 376 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 1: the dialogue and into the themes, and he certainly did 377 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: that with Pride of the Monster. Twenty years ago, I 378 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 1: was banned from my homeland, parted from my wife and son, 379 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: never to see them again. Why Because I suggested to 380 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: use the atom elements for producing super bees, beings of 381 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: unthinkable strength and size. I was classed as a madman, 382 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: a charlatan outlawed in the world of science, which previously 383 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: honored me as a genius. Now Here in this fars 384 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: shaken jungle, hell, I have proven that I are right. 385 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: The following year would begin production on what would become 386 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: his magnum opus, Plan nine from Outer Space, originally titled 387 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: Grave Robbers from Outer Space? My Friend, Can your Heart 388 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: stand The Shocking Facts about Gray Robbers from Outer Space? 389 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,439 Speaker 1: He had plans to include his friend and frequent collaborator, 390 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: Bella Legosi, but Legosi passed away before primary production began. However, 391 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: Edward was able to shoot a few scenes with Legosi 392 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: before he died. The home they had so long shared 393 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: together became a tomb, a sweet memory of her joyous living. 394 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: This guy to which she had once looked was now 395 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: only a covering for her dead body. It grew out 396 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: of wood having footage of Bella Legosi that he had 397 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: shot and feeling he could make a film around that. 398 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: He sometimes had existing footage that he would hope later 399 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: to build a film around. There was a project called 400 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: Hellborn that never came to fruition, and some of the 401 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: footage that was kind of like a j D Juvenile 402 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: delinquent thing. Some of That footage was used in other 403 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: Wood films from later years, and other filmmakers have done that. 404 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: Fred Ole and Ray shot footage of John Carradine. I've 405 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: been waiting for you. I came as soon as I heard, 406 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: you know, exactly as instructed, not knowing exactly what he 407 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: was going to use it in, but because he had 408 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: the opportunity to do it, he had a creative mind 409 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: can do something like that. God bless them. Bill says 410 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: that Edwards the use of recycled material was central to 411 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: his style. I was watching an Edward documentary and Vampira, 412 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: who certainly knew Edwood well, described his work as decoupage 413 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: in the sense that he had pieces that interested him, 414 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: and he would assemble those chunks and just sort of 415 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: put a veneer over it to united he thought in 416 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: terms of individual set pieces, not so much in terms 417 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: of the overall work. That cardboard headstone tipped over this 418 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: graveyard is obviously phony. Nobody will ever notice that filmmaking 419 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: is not about the tiny details, It's about the big picture. 420 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: I was just reading Wood's book, Hollywood Rat Race, and 421 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: in that he says that he generally did not have 422 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: endings to his films. When he started them, and he 423 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: just kind of saw what would happen. Usually for budgetary reasons. 424 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,959 Speaker 1: Wood was also well known for padding out his movies 425 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: with cheaply acquired stock footage. This is fantastic. What are 426 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: you gonna do with it? Probably follow it away. I'll 427 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: never see it again. It's such a place. Why if 428 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: I had half the chance, I could make an entire 429 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: movie using the stock footage. This is especially true in 430 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: early movies like Glennar Glenda, where you might see the 431 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: same shot of highway traffic multiple times. The world is 432 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: a strange place to live in, all those cards, all 433 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: going someplace, all carrying humans which are carrying out their lives. 434 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: The patchwork film has a long history in low budget 435 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: and exploitation films, going back to the silent and early 436 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: sound era, where a film would be caught up and 437 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: re contextualized and sold over again. So of course that's 438 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:02,479 Speaker 1: an important aspect of the Wood style. One other thing 439 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: you might notice about woods films is that he uses 440 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: a rotating cast of friends and other trusted actors, almost 441 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: like a Wood verse. Some were famous, like Bella Legosi 442 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: or Vampire Round, others were just friends. He got some 443 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: of his regular crew together along with colorful figures like 444 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: John Bunny Breckon Ridge. I have need of your other 445 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: ships elsewhere. Even though you have risen three of the 446 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: Earth did the plan is far from successful, and you 447 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: Eros has proven an operational success the for more time 448 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: energy ships and your countrymen maybe spent on it. And 449 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: Paul Marco, did you do that thing? Did you get it? 450 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: Wait at it? Well, it didn't fall like fired everyple 451 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: that I had Lyle Talbot. Of course you realize, Mrs Gregor, 452 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: that if your brother fails to show up for trial, 453 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: you will forfeit the bail money inspector does no criminal Well, 454 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: that will be established later. He was carrying a gun. 455 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: There are much worse crimes. Carrying a gun can be 456 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: a dangerous business and of course unique people like Vampira. 457 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: What I need is a vampire cocktail to settle by. 458 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: It will not only settle them, it will petrify toward 459 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: Johnson finding a mess like this? How to make anyone? Try? 460 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: Have one other boys, technical guy and a girl. Back 461 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: to Tom. You take shots, okay, Inspector, what are you 462 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: going to do? Look around? Pretty dark out there once 463 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: you get beyond the range of those lights. You won't 464 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: be able to see your hand front of your pain. 465 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: I will get one of the lash light from the 466 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: patrol car. Be careful, played, I'm a big boy, not Johnny. 467 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: So you have a mix of industry professionals mixed with 468 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: non professionals, mixed with people who were starting out in 469 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: the industry. Oh look, tennant. Maybe this doesn't mean my 470 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: but Jamie Meat found a great that looks like it's 471 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: been busted into what where? What? What? Come on? Man? 472 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: Odd with it? We haven't got all dataway? Just over 473 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: there beyond the crip, all right, show us away. So 474 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,839 Speaker 1: you get a lot of people who are interesting personalities, 475 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: who may not be professional actors, and who may basically 476 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: bring their unique persona. But many directors, Fellini among them, 477 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: worked in that way and liked a good face or 478 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,720 Speaker 1: a good presence and didn't worry about the person's ability 479 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: to perform Hamlet. That's something that Edward brought to his films. 480 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: Family friend Bob Blackburn says Wood was less focused on 481 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 1: who was right for the part and more focused on 482 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: having a family of filmmaking friends. I don't think he 483 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: was looking to get anything from these people besides their friendship. 484 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: You know, if they wanted to act in one his movies, 485 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: or they want to go out and have a drink, 486 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: totally cool. You know. I don't think he was going, oh, 487 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: there's vampire writing, you know, I want her to be 488 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 1: in my film. I don't think that came about that way. 489 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: Ed loved hire. These older actors had had a name 490 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,320 Speaker 1: Kenny Duncan, who was one of his favorite Western guys, 491 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: or Tom Osborne, or some of these other people who 492 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: Ed knew and who were I don't want to say 493 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: they were down on their luck, but they were in 494 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: between jobs, will put it that way. And if Ed 495 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: could offer them a couple hundred bucks for one day's 496 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: work or a couple of days work, sure, why not? 497 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: So he would go back to those people. Plan nine 498 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: was like a who's who of Wood's best friends and 499 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: closest collaborators. According to Bill Shoot, It's also where he 500 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: took his wacky ideas and went in full force. You 501 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: had the kitchen sink surrealism of Ed Wood really at 502 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: full killed. I want to ask you about your strange 503 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: experience the other night when you saw the flying stater. 504 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,800 Speaker 1: After that the police brought me home. I hope I 505 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: never see such a side again after you were forced 506 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,840 Speaker 1: to the ground. But that blast of wind, was it 507 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: a hot or cold blast? It's kind of hard to explain. 508 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: It wasn't hot, wasn't cool, Just to terrific force. We 509 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: couldn't get off the ground. Who I blinded me so badly. 510 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: I couldn't see a thing. We could only feel the 511 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 1: pressure of the wind until it was gone. When the 512 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,839 Speaker 1: glare left us, we could see a glowing ball disappearing 513 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: off in the distance, which way towards the cemetery. The 514 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 1: other most obvious characteristics of woods films are the low 515 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 1: budget and the technical areas, and this becomes the most 516 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: contentious element of woods work. I really truly love parts 517 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: of his movies, I don't love the overall experiences of 518 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 1: watching them. My name is Katherine cold Iron and I'm 519 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: the author of a monograph on Plan nine from Outer Space. 520 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 1: Catherine's book looks at the numerous glaring technical problems and 521 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: Plan nine, as well as explores why we enjoy watching 522 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,240 Speaker 1: quote bad movies. I asked her how she sees Edward 523 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: as a filmmaker. I think of him as an auteur 524 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: because he's one of those guys who has to right direct, 525 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,800 Speaker 1: produce everything himself. What quality of art here he is 526 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 1: is much more mysterious, and I think he's proof that 527 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 1: autiers exist at all levels of quality in the cinema. 528 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,800 Speaker 1: Where he is in terms of bad cinema is a 529 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,320 Speaker 1: little bit more difficult to estimate, I think, but he's 530 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: I would say, the most famous bad film aut here, 531 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: probably in wider culture. I also ask Catherine what she 532 00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,760 Speaker 1: sees as edwards shortcomings. Edward doesn't know how to block 533 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 1: at all, and by that I mean he'll sort of 534 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:09,280 Speaker 1: have characters coming onto the screen in the same direction 535 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: and running in circles in the cemetery, and you don't 536 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: really get a sense of where anyone is in space. 537 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: I mean he has some knowledge of how to do 538 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 1: time in film, in that the scene on the porch, 539 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: he knows that you show the passage of time with 540 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: a push in by the camera and then a pull 541 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: out by the camera. He's aware of that, but he's 542 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 1: not aware, for instance, that dissolving means that time passes 543 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 1: and cutting means that time doesn't pass. So there's a 544 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,320 Speaker 1: scene where a car pulls up to the cemetery and 545 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 1: it's clear to him that a certain period of time 546 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 1: has passed between the last shot and this one, But 547 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: because it's a cut instead of a dissolve, the audience 548 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: doesn't realize it. But unless that bag of bones over 549 00:38:51,680 --> 00:39:02,320 Speaker 1: there can reassemble itself, it's all they're running out. His 550 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:07,399 Speaker 1: lighting is very harsh and uniform across the film. It's 551 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,319 Speaker 1: always very bright, and that's actually, I think, better than 552 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: a filmmaker who just turns the lights down and you 553 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: can't see anything. But it also means that day for 554 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: night is a joke in Plan nine? Then how about 555 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: when the policeman arrived in daylight but now it's suddenly night? 556 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: What do you know? Haven't you heard of? Suspension of disbelief? 557 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 1: And the way that he draws connections between things leaves 558 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: a lot to be desired. I think that you're supposed 559 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: to know that the aliens are involved with the cemetery 560 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 1: business early in the film, but the film doesn't, like 561 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: very literally make those connections until way later. What plan 562 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: will you fallow? Now? Plan nine? It's been absolutely impossible 563 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: to work through these earth creatures. Their soul is too controlled. 564 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 1: Plan nine, ah, yes, Plan nine. Deals of the resurrect 565 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: of the Dead long distance electrode shottened opinion of pituitary 566 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: glands of recent dead. So the plot is hard to 567 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: follow because there's so much irrelevant stuff that's sort of 568 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: jammed in there that the way that an American audience 569 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,840 Speaker 1: can normally follow a film is just not present in 570 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: plan mind from matter space, Catherine says that for her, 571 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: it's less to do with woods budgetary constraints. To me, 572 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: it's his his incapacity to see when he should have 573 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 1: done better. Like a movie maker like Roger Corman is 574 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 1: always doing the best with the resources he has, and 575 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 1: the resources he has failed him. There is meat here 576 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,800 Speaker 1: killing go back. No. I came to find the truth alive, 577 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:50,479 Speaker 1: the old stories, the ancient law. We came to hunt, 578 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,279 Speaker 1: not to destroy the word. But when Roger Corman has 579 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 1: given a little bit of a budget, like he can 580 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: do amazing things, that's where something practical is inhibiting you 581 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 1: from making something good. Whereas with would you could give 582 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,320 Speaker 1: him all the money in the world and he wouldn't 583 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 1: be able to make a good movie. It's just not 584 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 1: in his wheelhouse. So what sets him apart for me 585 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 1: is not that he doesn't have the resources to do it, 586 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,240 Speaker 1: and not that he doesn't have the time and energy 587 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,200 Speaker 1: to do it, but instead that he simply doesn't have 588 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: the capacity to do it. Like if they flow the line, 589 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 1: like retake the scene now you can bring the total 590 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 1: destruction of the entire universe served by our sun. As 591 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: you might guess, Bill Shoot has a completely different opinion 592 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:44,600 Speaker 1: on wood style, low budget filmmaking and independent filmmaking. You 593 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 1: have to bring to that when you watch it willing 594 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:52,080 Speaker 1: suspension of disbelief. People don't have a problem with that 595 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 1: when they see a play. When you see a play, 596 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 1: you know that's a painted backdrop. You know that you're 597 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,640 Speaker 1: not looking at a courtyard in New Orleans or Paris 598 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,760 Speaker 1: or something like that, and you can accept it. People 599 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 1: who used to go to these kind of films, or 600 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 1: even people who watch low budget straight the video product today, 601 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: you just accept that this is not a hundred million 602 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: dollar film and that things represent the reality of the situation, 603 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 1: and you don't have a problem with that. So I 604 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,279 Speaker 1: don't really focus on the things that people make fun 605 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 1: of in Edward films, because you see that in a 606 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:37,800 Speaker 1: wide variety of low budget product. When someone's making a 607 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 1: feature film for twenty dollars or less that comes with 608 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 1: the territory. I think some of the people who pick 609 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 1: on that sort of thing haven't seen a lot of 610 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,080 Speaker 1: low budget product and they don't know that that's what 611 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 1: the marketplace was like, and that's what the typical product 612 00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,160 Speaker 1: was like. I don't think that's an excuse when you're 613 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,959 Speaker 1: making work, especially if you're making a movie, Why would 614 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,840 Speaker 1: you give it anything less than you're all. Something that 615 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,080 Speaker 1: I realized when I was researching is that most genre 616 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 1: movies from the late fifties are crap, Like, most of 617 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,759 Speaker 1: them are not good. It was just a genre that 618 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:21,160 Speaker 1: sort of didn't have good quality films until late sixties. Really, however, 619 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: there are movies from that period that stand out, like 620 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 1: The Incredible Shrinking Man. But even as I touched the dry, 621 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,800 Speaker 1: flaking crumbs of nourishment, it was as if my body 622 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:36,399 Speaker 1: had ceased to exist. There was no hunger, no longer 623 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 1: the terrible fear of shrinking. And then the fly. I 624 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,920 Speaker 1: saw that funny looking fly again, which shall we go to? 625 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:51,839 Speaker 1: You saw where it is going to get it by 626 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:59,560 Speaker 1: the bench in the garden. Oh yes, they have bad 627 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,239 Speaker 1: quality ease sure, and the special effects are not great, 628 00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,320 Speaker 1: and there are all these reasons why they're lesser, but 629 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,920 Speaker 1: the fact that movie makers could make those at the 630 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 1: time means that the vast majority of movie makers who 631 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,759 Speaker 1: made impermanent art to turn a quick bucke at the 632 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 1: box office and then be forgotten forever. It's just no excuse, 633 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,360 Speaker 1: Like you could still do a good job and you 634 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:27,360 Speaker 1: chose not to. So perhaps whether one enjoys Wood is 635 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,360 Speaker 1: a matter of subjective preference and whether you find his 636 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 1: technical errors to be charming or distracting. But despite her criticisms, 637 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:40,360 Speaker 1: Catherine also enjoys some things about woods movies. Oh, I 638 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 1: delight in how unstudied everything is. I love really really 639 00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 1: bad performances in his movies, like the actress at the crypt. 640 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:54,719 Speaker 1: First his wife, then he tragic tell me something. Why 641 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,240 Speaker 1: was his wife buried in the ground and he failed 642 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,320 Speaker 1: in a crypt? Something to do with family today, a 643 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: superstition of some sort. Oh, she's just she can't even 644 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,440 Speaker 1: deliver the word oh properly. Like I think that's super 645 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,960 Speaker 1: delightful and enjoyable. And the mechanism of enjoying bad movies 646 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:13,959 Speaker 1: is something that I've studied a lot, but I haven't 647 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,600 Speaker 1: quite figured out and what that is when you look 648 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 1: at something that's incompetent and you laugh, but you're not 649 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,120 Speaker 1: like actively making fun of it when you're enjoying it 650 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:28,480 Speaker 1: because it's bad, but not thinking of it as something risible, 651 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,520 Speaker 1: something to you know, tease. That is a mystery to me. 652 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,680 Speaker 1: What I think it is is that bad movies are 653 00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:39,080 Speaker 1: endlessly surprising, because if you've seen any number of movies 654 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,040 Speaker 1: in your lifetime, you will recognize what a three x 655 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,279 Speaker 1: structure is without having to be told what it is. 656 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,000 Speaker 1: You'll recognize that the peaks and valleys of mainstream commercial 657 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:51,759 Speaker 1: film are very engineered that everything about them you know. 658 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,280 Speaker 1: From minute to minute, you know exactly what the experience 659 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,040 Speaker 1: is going to be, and you can broadly predict what's 660 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: going to happen in the movie. Even if it has 661 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: twists and turns, you can still figure it out. Bad 662 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,480 Speaker 1: movies just don't follow those rules, either because the filmmakers 663 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,160 Speaker 1: never learned those rules or because they don't really care. 664 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,239 Speaker 1: The films are always gonna show you something that you've 665 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,200 Speaker 1: never seen before, and even if that thing is incompetence, 666 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,520 Speaker 1: at least it's surprising. It's not the same thing over 667 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,440 Speaker 1: and over again. Catherine is getting into a phenomenon largely 668 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:23,279 Speaker 1: pioneered by ed Wood, that focuses on bad film as 669 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,680 Speaker 1: its own form of entertainment. You've probably heard of films 670 00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,799 Speaker 1: that are quote so bad they're good. The other most 671 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,520 Speaker 1: notable example is Tommy Wise, Oh is the room right? 672 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:38,280 Speaker 1: Can I help you? Can? I have a dozen red roses? Please? Hi, Johnny, 673 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:41,840 Speaker 1: I didn't know was you here? You go? That's me? 674 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,839 Speaker 1: How much is keep the change? Hi? Dog? You you're 675 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,360 Speaker 1: my favorite customer. Thanks a loud bye. I do not 676 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,840 Speaker 1: believe it's a schadenfreude instinct. I think that there are 677 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,759 Speaker 1: two distinct types of bad movie watchers. And there's the 678 00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,200 Speaker 1: type that has schadenfreuda and they want to laugh at movies, 679 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,560 Speaker 1: and then there's the type that is just genuinely delighted 680 00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,200 Speaker 1: by bad movies. I don't understand the mechanism, even though 681 00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,439 Speaker 1: I'm one of them, of people who love bad movies 682 00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,200 Speaker 1: because they're delightful. I think what keeps us coming back 683 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:14,040 Speaker 1: to these movies again is just their ability to surprise 684 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,879 Speaker 1: and to be nothing like the pattern. It's a little 685 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,400 Speaker 1: bit like, do you want to listen to pop singers 686 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,600 Speaker 1: like Britney Spears and Taylor Swift or do you want 687 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,239 Speaker 1: to listen to Radiohead? And like, maybe there's not a 688 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,920 Speaker 1: lot of difference between them in terms of career structure, 689 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,319 Speaker 1: but there's a huge amount of difference in how they 690 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,640 Speaker 1: pass in and out of your brain. It's much more 691 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,000 Speaker 1: difficult to listen to Joanna Newsome than it is to 692 00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,279 Speaker 1: listen to Britney Spears. And there are moods for both. 693 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,440 Speaker 1: You know, there are nights when I want to watch 694 00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,600 Speaker 1: a really good movie, and then there are nights when 695 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:48,080 Speaker 1: I want to watch a movie where I can turn 696 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:49,880 Speaker 1: my brain off, so I'll watch a Marvel movie. And 697 00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,239 Speaker 1: then there are knights when I want to be challenged 698 00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:56,400 Speaker 1: and also laugh, and so I'll watch Neil Breen. You know, 699 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,600 Speaker 1: I think that there are people who want very narrow 700 00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:02,920 Speaker 1: artistic experiences, and then there are people who want a 701 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,880 Speaker 1: wide variety of them. And I think the latter category 702 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,680 Speaker 1: is much more interested in that film. Here's Bill Shoot's opinion. 703 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:17,080 Speaker 1: I am a total opponent of the bad film phenomenon. 704 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:22,799 Speaker 1: I'm a champion of low budget artists in many different genres. 705 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,200 Speaker 1: If you take the small labels of the nineteen fifties 706 00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:28,920 Speaker 1: and sixties, there would be a lot of things that 707 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:34,480 Speaker 1: were considered technical flaws as opposed to something recorded in 708 00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,160 Speaker 1: l a by the wrecking crew that was professional in 709 00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:43,239 Speaker 1: every way. But you had people with enormous creativity and 710 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:48,560 Speaker 1: limited budgets trying to capture what was in their mind, 711 00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,520 Speaker 1: trying to capture the vision that they had with the 712 00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:57,640 Speaker 1: limited technical facilities that were available, in the limited funds 713 00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:01,440 Speaker 1: that were available to them. I've onto showings in Austin 714 00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,920 Speaker 1: of low budget horror films, indie films of all sorts, 715 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,440 Speaker 1: and there's always some people in the audience who were 716 00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,839 Speaker 1: making fun of the filmmaker and pointing their fingers at 717 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,560 Speaker 1: the kind of things you see in low budget films, 718 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,520 Speaker 1: And to me, as I said earlier, on some level, 719 00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,960 Speaker 1: it's I don't think they've seen a lot of those 720 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,359 Speaker 1: films to know that that is not uncommon. But there's 721 00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,880 Speaker 1: also a kind of elitism that I find kind of 722 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:34,440 Speaker 1: offensive anyone who's worked in the arts as I have. 723 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:40,480 Speaker 1: With limited money and limited technical facilities, you do what 724 00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,680 Speaker 1: you can to kind of fake an effect. I grew 725 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,160 Speaker 1: up during the punk rock era and the kind of 726 00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:53,600 Speaker 1: cut up xerox esthetic of punk growing out of you know, 727 00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,520 Speaker 1: Warhole William Burrows, that sort of thing was also a 728 00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:04,359 Speaker 1: way of using very minimal budgets and kitchen sink abilities 729 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,400 Speaker 1: to create something that was transcendent because you didn't have 730 00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,879 Speaker 1: access to the technology. So when I see a film 731 00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,279 Speaker 1: of that sort from an independent filmmaker, whether it be 732 00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:19,880 Speaker 1: Edwood or Bill Robaine or Larry Buchanan, I'm just amazed 733 00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:24,320 Speaker 1: at what they can do on such a low budget. 734 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,080 Speaker 1: I just take my hat off to that kind of 735 00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:33,200 Speaker 1: inventiveness and creativity. As far as quote bad film creators go, 736 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,800 Speaker 1: Catherine believes there's one positive quality that sets Edward apart. 737 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,799 Speaker 1: Edwards sincerity is part of what makes his films fun 738 00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,880 Speaker 1: to watch instead of unfun to watch. For instance, the 739 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,960 Speaker 1: output of the Asylum that they made, Sharknado, and like 740 00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,560 Speaker 1: a bunch of movies like that. I know you're scared. 741 00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,560 Speaker 1: I'm scared too. They're sharks. They're scary. No one wants 742 00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,239 Speaker 1: to get eating. But I've been and I'm here to 743 00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,400 Speaker 1: tell you it takes a lot more than that to 744 00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:06,360 Speaker 1: bring a good man down. Those films are not as 745 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,360 Speaker 1: much fun to watch for me because they're very cynical. 746 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,120 Speaker 1: They think that they're laughing at themselves, but they're actually 747 00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:17,280 Speaker 1: not they're more making cynical trash. What's charming about Edwood 748 00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,400 Speaker 1: is that he has the love, but he has no skill. 749 00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:22,560 Speaker 1: He has the will to make a film, but he 750 00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:24,719 Speaker 1: doesn't have the talent to make a film. That's kind 751 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,400 Speaker 1: of like watching little bitty kids play soccer trying to 752 00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:30,600 Speaker 1: kind of kick the ball around the field, but they 753 00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:34,120 Speaker 1: don't have the capacity in their arms and legs to 754 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,279 Speaker 1: have that kind of coordination. So watching them is kind 755 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,360 Speaker 1: of cute because they're trying really hard, but their bodies 756 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:44,360 Speaker 1: are failing them, and Wood's talent fails him, and that's sweet. 757 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,879 Speaker 1: You know, it's sad a little bit, but also kind 758 00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:52,000 Speaker 1: of lovely to witness. So between Catherine and Bill, we 759 00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,280 Speaker 1: have two very different opinions on the matter. But before 760 00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,840 Speaker 1: we move on, I want to share one more approach. 761 00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:03,000 Speaker 1: Here's family friend Bob Blackburn. Again, I'm right down the 762 00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,160 Speaker 1: middle of this, to be honest with you. There was 763 00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,680 Speaker 1: a book, The Cinematic Misadventures of Ed Wood. I think 764 00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:13,240 Speaker 1: it was where the guy took a very scholarly approach 765 00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,560 Speaker 1: to all Ed's films, and I went, WHOA, you're really 766 00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:19,640 Speaker 1: reading some stuff in there that I just don't see 767 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:23,879 Speaker 1: or whatever. But I appreciated the fact that somebody took 768 00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:27,360 Speaker 1: ed that seriously to actually write it. Now, I don't know, 769 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,280 Speaker 1: but I would assume that in some film schools Edward 770 00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,920 Speaker 1: is taught, maybe at U c l A Film School 771 00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,960 Speaker 1: or USC Film School. There's a class and so bad 772 00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:41,359 Speaker 1: it's good. I would hope it's so bad it's good thing. 773 00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,759 Speaker 1: I kind of shake my head at it. I don't 774 00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,719 Speaker 1: see it. It didn't study film, he didn't go to 775 00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:51,600 Speaker 1: USC Film School. He didn't apprentice for a famous film director, 776 00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:53,880 Speaker 1: even though he may have worked at universally. It's like 777 00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,280 Speaker 1: in the prop department, you know. He was smitten with movies. 778 00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:00,640 Speaker 1: So his knowledge was from what he saw and from 779 00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,560 Speaker 1: people he met, people he talked to and trial and air. 780 00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:06,359 Speaker 1: If you see his very early things like cross Roads, 781 00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,960 Speaker 1: Avenger Crossroads or Laredo or any of the the TV things, 782 00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:14,800 Speaker 1: the cardboard, very short coffin, things of that nature, people 783 00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:18,120 Speaker 1: getting off a horse on the wrong side. He wasn't 784 00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:22,200 Speaker 1: a technician at all. It's easy to laugh at the mistakes, 785 00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,040 Speaker 1: but you have to kind of understand why there are 786 00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,759 Speaker 1: the mistakes, you know, and again there's other people that 787 00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,319 Speaker 1: were learning how to make movies. Ads they were making them. 788 00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:33,560 Speaker 1: You know, there's always going to be those kind of people, 789 00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,600 Speaker 1: for better or worse. Plan nine from Outer Space was 790 00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:42,480 Speaker 1: edwards boldest most artistic statement, but it was far from 791 00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:45,200 Speaker 1: the end of his career. Edward would go on to 792 00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,440 Speaker 1: make six more movies throughout the nineteen sixties, and he 793 00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:52,560 Speaker 1: also wrote dozens of novels, short stories, and other adult content. 794 00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,399 Speaker 1: On the next episode of Ephemeral, We're going to dig 795 00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:58,960 Speaker 1: into Ed's later work and tell the story of his 796 00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:03,000 Speaker 1: final years, and we'll talk about Woods cult revival, the 797 00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:06,720 Speaker 1: eventual Tim Burton biopic, and how he reached new heights 798 00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:29,120 Speaker 1: of fame after his death. This episode of Ephemeral was 799 00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,800 Speaker 1: written and produced by Trevor Young, with producers Max and 800 00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:36,680 Speaker 1: Alex Williams. Bill Shoot is a writer and professor of 801 00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:40,759 Speaker 1: English at San Antonio College. He also wrote the introduction 802 00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:44,280 Speaker 1: for the new book of posthumously released essays by Edwood 803 00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:48,640 Speaker 1: When the Topic Is Sex. Bob Blackbird is a family 804 00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,680 Speaker 1: friend of the Woods who edited and compiled the stories 805 00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,440 Speaker 1: for When the Topic Is Sex, which you can find 806 00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:58,120 Speaker 1: on Bare Manner Media's website or wherever books are sold. 807 00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,000 Speaker 1: And Catherine cole Dire is author of the book Plan 808 00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,600 Speaker 1: nine from Outer Space. See more of her work at 809 00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:09,040 Speaker 1: k cold Iron dot com. We'll be back in two 810 00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,040 Speaker 1: weeks with part two of our dive into ed Wood. 811 00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:16,360 Speaker 1: In the meantime, find links to these and more on 812 00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:21,000 Speaker 1: our website, Ephemeral dot Show. And while you're there, check 813 00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:24,799 Speaker 1: out my conversation with Movie Crush host Chuck Bryant about 814 00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:29,800 Speaker 1: Tim burton biopic ed Wood. For more podcasts from I 815 00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,160 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 816 00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:35,640 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.