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Speaker 1: Previously on Queen of the Con.

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Speaker 2: Thank god Jenshaw ended up being a con artist, because

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Speaker 2: she really helped to put Salt Lake on the map.

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Speaker 1: Real Housewives star Jen Shaw goes from an ugly duckling

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Speaker 1: childhood to radiant swandam in high school.

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Speaker 3: We were at an assembly and out came this tiny

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Speaker 3: Polynesian girl with this beautiful long hair, and when she danced,

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Speaker 3: everybody went crazy. We couldn't get enough of her.

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Speaker 1: And years later neither could Bravo viewers until her public

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Speaker 1: fall from Grace on national television. What's going on.

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Speaker 4: I've just got a phone call on strath staying years

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Speaker 4: in the hospital. He has internal bleeding, so I need

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Speaker 4: to go.

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Speaker 1: That phone call she got, was that someone on her

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Speaker 1: side quote unquote trying to warn her?

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Speaker 5: I think she was absolutely getting warned because we know

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Speaker 5: they were en route to the parking lot because they

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Speaker 5: show up there so lya thereafter.

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Speaker 1: We're looking for Jen Saw.

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Speaker 6: She just like, wow, they have like swat team stuff.

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Speaker 1: What the heck. Jenshaw is ultimately arrested and charged with

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Speaker 1: masterminding an elaborate scam that cost victims millions of dollars,

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Speaker 1: and her former employees are not surprised. Would you call

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Speaker 1: her a con artist?

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Speaker 7: I would just call her a con She's not very

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Speaker 7: much of an artist.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Walton and this is Queen of the con

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Speaker 1: The Unreal Housewife Episode two. I'm making money on every clique.

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Speaker 1: Love the hair, dude, Wow, I like the swoop.

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Speaker 7: I'll thank you.

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Speaker 1: Coha Johnson is a fashion designer who really looks like

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Speaker 1: a fashion designer. He's got angular features, an eclectic wardrobe,

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Speaker 1: and a bleach blonde and pink mane whimsically framing his face,

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Speaker 1: bobbing and bouncing as he talks to me about his

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Speaker 1: most infamous client, Jen Shaw, and her three season stint

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Speaker 1: on Bravo's Real Housewives of Salt Lake City that he

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Speaker 1: had a front row seat to because whenever you'd see

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Speaker 1: gen Shaw freaking out in a fancy dress.

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Speaker 8: Where's this person?

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Speaker 6: Whitney shut the up?

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Speaker 1: It was always a CoA Johnson original.

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Speaker 9: I would design customy me specifically for her, and I

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Speaker 9: would source everything and I would get all the fabrics, notions, crystals, feathers, feeds,

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Speaker 9: all that fun stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm posting some of the dresses CoA designed and created

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Speaker 1: for Jenshaw at Queen of the Khan on Instagram, so

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Speaker 1: you can see how spectacular they are. They really look

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Speaker 1: like gowns you'd see Jennifer Aniston or Halle Berry wearing

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Speaker 1: at the Oscars. You're a talented guy.

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Speaker 7: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I can't even fathom how you design a dress and

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Speaker 1: then you would sew it.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, So I would create, We would come up with

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Speaker 9: a design together. We would collaborate on the log I

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Speaker 9: would start sourcing all the fabrics and then I would

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Speaker 9: drink the fabrics, cut it out and make the pattern

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Speaker 9: and everything, do fittings with her, so it myself, refit,

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Speaker 9: resellt with the zipper and and call it a day.

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Speaker 7: You know, from start to finish.

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Speaker 1: And how did you lend that job with Jenshaw? How

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Speaker 1: did you meet her? How did it happen?

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Speaker 9: So from the get go I met her in March

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Speaker 9: of twenty twenty, right before the pandemic started. A friend

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Speaker 9: of mine, he was designing for her at the time,

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Speaker 9: and reached out to me in Hawaii. I was visiting

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Speaker 9: my parents in Hawaii and he said, Hey, I'm working

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Speaker 9: for a housewife for the Royal Housewives of Salt Lake City,

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Speaker 9: the newest franchise and filming with her for season one.

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Speaker 9: I would love for you to come over for like

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Speaker 9: a month to kind of like help start her clothing line.

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Speaker 9: So I said, hey, I mean, that sounds like a

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Speaker 9: great idea. I'm not really doing anything. And I was

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Speaker 9: expected to go there for.

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Speaker 1: A month, but CoA ended up staying for nearly a year,

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Speaker 1: and over the course of his tenure as Jen's personal

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Speaker 1: designer and stylist, he got to know her really well.

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Speaker 7: It was very interesting, it was very monumental. It's very

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Speaker 7: life changing.

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Speaker 1: What do you know about how Jen Shaw even got

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Speaker 1: on The Real Housewives to begin with?

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Speaker 7: So it's an audition process for sure. I got to

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Speaker 7: see her audition tape.

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Speaker 4: I had to work my ass off here in Utah.

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Speaker 7: I've always been at least fifty round a month.

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Speaker 1: I heard she spent a fortune on an audition tape.

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Speaker 9: She definitely spent a fortune. She bragged about a lot

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Speaker 9: of the things that she would spend her money on

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Speaker 9: was on there as well.

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Speaker 2: I'm telling you, was she two types of crazy?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 9: So yeah, how she got on the show, I mean

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Speaker 9: when I first met her back in March of twenty twenty,

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Speaker 9: she had a very big personality, and I was told

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Speaker 9: that she had a very big personality and Bravo loves that.

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Speaker 9: Bravo loves especially she was a woman of color. She

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Speaker 9: was Polynesian, and that's something especially in Salt Lake City,

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Speaker 9: that you don't see a lot of that type of

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Speaker 9: person in a very conservative state.

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Speaker 1: Did Bravo seek her out to be on the show

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Speaker 1: or did she seek out the show to be on

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Speaker 1: Bravo's Real Housewives.

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Speaker 7: Bravo sought her out.

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Speaker 9: So usually how it worked is Bravo will seek out

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Speaker 9: one person who will recommend another person who will recommend

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Speaker 9: another person.

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Speaker 7: For auditioning for the show. So she was sought.

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Speaker 9: Out by Bravo and recommended by someone else on the show.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. What was it like working for Jenshaw for that year?

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Speaker 7: She was very pleasant in the beginning.

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Speaker 9: I felt I grew to love her personality, loved her family,

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Speaker 9: her kids, her extended family, her mom, her brothers, her sisters.

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Speaker 9: I got to know them very well, and being also

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Speaker 9: Polynesian myself, in Hawaiian specifically, we just had that kind

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Speaker 9: of cultural connection because we were of the same background

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Speaker 9: and the culture. And I really really did love her

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Speaker 9: like a sister. As things progressed and during my time

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Speaker 9: with her things became very, very chaotic.

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Speaker 1: She hasn't been home since Saturday.

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Speaker 7: Toxic.

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Speaker 6: You decided to bring it to me.

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Speaker 7: Abusive that what happened when the grata.

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Speaker 1: And it ended pretty abruptly and according to Coha, as

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Speaker 1: bad as Jenshaw was on camera, Yeah right, she was

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Speaker 1: actually worse off camera than on correct.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, how so explain that like when she got upset,

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Speaker 9: she got really upset, throwing glasses, throwing phones, breaking phones,

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Speaker 9: breaking objects, and she her hats on or throw at

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Speaker 9: you or any of my colleagues.

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Speaker 7: She would do that.

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Speaker 9: She would call us and just scream her head off

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Speaker 9: and tell us what horrible employees we were and that

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Speaker 9: we weren't doing anything.

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Speaker 1: Things got so bad for CoA and the Shaw Squad,

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Speaker 1: which is what Jen called the team of people under

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Speaker 1: her employ that at one point when she was going

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Speaker 1: off on them for the hundredth time, someone hit record.

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Speaker 4: And you can set up fuckingmiling bitch and being a

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Speaker 4: fucking bitch. You are here, you are.

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Speaker 1: There was a video that got out of her losing

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Speaker 1: her shit on you and throwing things.

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Speaker 9: So that night was the night before she had to

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Speaker 9: leave to New York City.

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Speaker 7: For the reunion filming.

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Speaker 9: She was coming down from being drunk. She realized that

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Speaker 9: she still needs to pack. Jen was a very difficult

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Speaker 9: person to get to do any task, Like she couldn't

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Speaker 9: get out of bed. She would wake up at two

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Speaker 9: pm at that point, like she missed her hair appointments,

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Speaker 9: nail appointments. She just couldn't get out of bed or

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Speaker 9: do anything. And when she was up, she was on

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Speaker 9: her phone social media, distracting herself from actual responsibilities and

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Speaker 9: tasks that she needs to complete.

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Speaker 10: It.

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Speaker 9: It was a very difficult situation for me because I

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Speaker 9: was not only making her dresses, but I was assisting

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Speaker 9: and helping her do daily tasks because she fired so

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Speaker 9: many of her personal assistants.

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Speaker 1: How did you feel as you're standing there and she's

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Speaker 1: just going off on you and yelling and throwing stuff.

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Speaker 11: I handled this shit, It's no not yet handle it.

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Speaker 9: So in that instance, she was upset because she was

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Speaker 9: not prepared, and I was literally at.

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Speaker 7: My wits end.

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Speaker 9: I was emotionally, mentally, physically drained at that point because

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Speaker 9: I've already finished her reunion gown, and by her yelling

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Speaker 9: at me and screaming at me. I just kind of

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Speaker 9: was numb at that point because it was not the

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Speaker 9: first time that she did that to me. There were

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Speaker 9: many many other it's as previous to that moment that

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Speaker 9: she did, and I was just kind of like numb

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Speaker 9: to the situation and her yelling Like it was just

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Speaker 9: like I was just completely blank out as she's like yelling,

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Speaker 9: screaming and assaulting me. But I still doing my job.

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Speaker 9: You still have a dress. It's not like you have nothing.

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Speaker 9: I gave you everything. And I think that's what you

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Speaker 9: have to understand that Jen expects everything from you and

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Speaker 9: drain you.

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Speaker 7: I mean, that was her crime. She took everything.

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Speaker 9: From these people and expected everything to be given to her.

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Speaker 8: And sid.

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Speaker 1: Who do you think recorded that video and released it?

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Speaker 9: That's a good question. I know everybody wants to say

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Speaker 9: it's me. It's something to me. There were two of

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Speaker 9: my other colleagues that were present there, plus Jen, plus

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Speaker 9: her husband. I can't say who did it or if

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Speaker 9: I know that did it, but I'm just really glad

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Speaker 9: and grateful that it was put out there.

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Speaker 1: Designing dresses for Jen Shaw and having those dresses shown

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Speaker 1: worldwide on the Real Housewives show was a tremendous opportunity

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Speaker 1: for CoA. Johnson, It would be for any designer, but

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Speaker 1: that opportunity came with a deep price.

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Speaker 7: It was a living nightmare, for sure. It was a

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Speaker 7: living nightmare. For sure.

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Speaker 9: You would just be on edge the entire time, like

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Speaker 9: I did so much.

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Speaker 7: I stayed up all night.

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Speaker 9: Sewing a dress for her because she needed it for tomorrow,

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Speaker 9: or she needed it for some kind of event. But

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Speaker 9: I always still felt on edge because she would call

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Speaker 9: and just be like, nothing's ready, nothing's prepared. Her life

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Speaker 9: was in shambles, She was in chaos constantly. It was

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Speaker 9: a complete nightmare, and my colleagues had to go through it. Myself,

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Speaker 9: A lot of the people around us had to suffer

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Speaker 9: her wrath.

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Speaker 1: Looking back, did Jenshaw scam you?

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Speaker 7: Yes?

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Speaker 1: She did. Now, the scam Jenshaw pulls on Koa is

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Speaker 1: not as egregious or as complicated as the elaborate scam

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Speaker 1: she was pulling on thousands of people across the country,

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Speaker 1: systematically bilking them out of millions of dollars.

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Speaker 9: Her crime is very complex, and I think a lot

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Speaker 9: of her fans still are scratching their heads and wondering

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Speaker 9: why she's sitting in jail.

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Speaker 1: Oh, we're going to get to all that. It's insane,

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Speaker 1: so stay with us. But the scam Jenshaw pulls on

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Speaker 1: Koha was just cruel and dehumanizing. She essentially stopped paying

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Speaker 1: him for the last four months he was with her.

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Speaker 1: He was living in her house designing for her full time,

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Speaker 1: away from his friends in New York and away from

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Speaker 1: his family in Hawaii. In a way, she tricked you

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Speaker 1: into working for free.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, she did robbed me, exhausting me of all of

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Speaker 9: my resources. Yeah, I was still able to perform under

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Speaker 9: those circumstances. So yeah, she definitely scammed myself and a

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Speaker 9: lot of my colleagues of their time and money that

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Speaker 9: they deserved.

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Speaker 1: How many other people did she not pay U?

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Speaker 7: There were quite a few of us. That was my

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Speaker 7: time there.

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Speaker 9: There was at least myself and not maybe five other

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Speaker 9: assistants of hers.

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Speaker 1: She stiffed all of them.

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Speaker 7: Oh yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And you know, part of the scam I think is

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Speaker 1: I can tell by researching you, you're a very talented,

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Speaker 1: hard working designer and you take pride in what you do,

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Speaker 1: so I can tell you're not even doing it for

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Speaker 1: the money. So I think she uses that against you.

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Speaker 1: She knows you're not doing it for the money, and

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Speaker 1: she thinks I'm paying him, he'll still do it because

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Speaker 1: he takes pride in his.

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Speaker 9: Work, exactly my work ethic. She saw that I was

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Speaker 9: a very hard worker, and she fed off with that

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Speaker 9: work ethic for sure.

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Speaker 7: She also dangled fame and recognition.

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Speaker 9: A lot of the things that we as artists as

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Speaker 9: designers do rely on is exposure.

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Speaker 7: The exposure doesn't pay our bills.

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Speaker 1: Of course, there are two sides to every story, and

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Speaker 1: Jen Shaw has her In season two of The Real Housewives,

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Speaker 1: Jen responds to Coha's accusations he.

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Speaker 4: Took my kindness and repaid me by making it look

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Speaker 4: like I mistreated him, which was.

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Speaker 1: Not the case at all. And she tells people she

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Speaker 1: got rid of you because you couldn't cut it. You

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Speaker 1: were no good. What's your response to that?

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Speaker 7: She was one of the biggest liars I've ever met

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Speaker 7: in my entire life. I did not get fired, I

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Speaker 7: did not get let go. I quit.

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Speaker 9: I sent in my resignation texts. Her husband was a

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Speaker 9: part of that text message, and another colleague of mine

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Speaker 9: was a part of that text message. So I did

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Speaker 9: not get fired. I quit that part where she said

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Speaker 9: she was nothing but nice to me. No, no, no, no,

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Speaker 9: no no, no.

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Speaker 1: She was not.

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Speaker 9: I was nice. I was kind to her. She took

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Speaker 9: my kindness as weakness and weaponized.

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Speaker 7: It against me.

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Speaker 9: And I realized now that she needed me more than

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Speaker 9: I needed her. For sure, I don't think she would

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Speaker 9: have gotten that far without what I did for her,

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Speaker 9: to be.

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Speaker 1: Honest, Yeah, because on that show looks for everything dresses

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Speaker 1: or everything, and you did some spectacular gown. Yeah.

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Speaker 9: I proved myself and she wouldn't admit it that what

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Speaker 9: I'd done for her. Obviously, I did my job above and.

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Speaker 10: Beyond expectations, and under those circumstances, I'm more proud of

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Speaker 10: myself going through abuse and being assaulted the entire time

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Speaker 10: and berated the entire time, I was still able to

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Speaker 10: do my job.

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Speaker 1: You might be asking yourself, why didn't CoA just leave?

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Speaker 1: Why go weeks and months with no pay? Why put

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Speaker 1: up with that? The answer is, of course complicated.

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Speaker 5: Jenshaw is tremendously charismatic.

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Speaker 1: That's attorney in Housewives Officionado Emily D. Baker post of

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Speaker 1: The Emily Show podcast.

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Speaker 5: There are some people when you know where they're in

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Speaker 5: a room and you know where they are, even if

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Speaker 5: it's a lot ar full room. Jenshaw is one of

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Speaker 5: those people, and you can see even when people dislike her,

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Speaker 5: they forgive her. And we saw this play out on

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Speaker 5: the show. It's because they want to be around her,

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Speaker 5: because she's a lot of fun, and you see them

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Speaker 5: forgiving the shitty things she's done over and over because

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Speaker 5: they like her. And that's a type of charisma that

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Speaker 5: can't be taught.

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Speaker 1: Emily actually witnessed firsthand the power of persuasion. Jenshaw wheels

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Speaker 1: over everyone around her.

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Speaker 5: I was at an after party at Bravo Kan when

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Speaker 5: Jenshaw crashed the party.

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Speaker 1: Bravocan is exactly like it sounds, a yearly convention for

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Speaker 1: fans of the Bravo world, where stars of shows like

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Speaker 1: vander Pump Rules below deck and of course the Real

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Speaker 1: Housewives appear and mingle with fans. And Jenshaw showed up

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Speaker 1: to the last Bravo Kan dressed to the nines and

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Speaker 1: ready to mix things up.

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Speaker 5: I think she said she didn't crash the party, that

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Speaker 5: she was invited, but she invited to Bravo Kahn after

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Speaker 5: she fled, and she was there anyway, but she took

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Speaker 5: to the dance floor. Jen's got moves. She absolutely has moves.

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Speaker 5: I'm not surprised that she stood out as a superstar

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Speaker 5: in high school where people wanted to be liked by her,

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Speaker 5: wanted to be like her, and wanted to be kind

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Speaker 5: of in her shine a little bit. She's absolutely charismatic,

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Speaker 5: and even though she is a petite woman and not

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Speaker 5: very tall, everyone was just kind of drawn to her.

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Speaker 5: And so even the housewives that were having issues with

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Speaker 5: her were still kind of standing around watching gen dance

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Speaker 5: because yes, she absolutely has moves, and we saw that

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Speaker 5: time and time again on the show.

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Speaker 1: And that's exactly.

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Speaker 5: What sets her up for people wanting to please her

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Speaker 5: in scenarios like this where they will override their own

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Speaker 5: red flags because they want to be near Genshaw. They

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Speaker 5: want to win her approval and they want her to

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Speaker 5: like them.

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Speaker 1: That's the power of any good con artist. They get

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Speaker 1: you to love them. Yes, that's their weapon.

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Speaker 5: Yes it is, and it takes people in, and it

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Speaker 5: certainly took in the network execs at Bravo.

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Speaker 1: I imagine they salivated when they saw jen Shaw's casting reel.

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Speaker 4: We live in a gaety community, my husband travels a lot.

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Speaker 6: I really better with females that work.

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Speaker 7: The ones that just sit at home and don't do anything.

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Speaker 4: I don't stay well with girls like that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she was exactly what they were looking for,

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Speaker 1: an uber, wealthy, self made woman with a big personality

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Speaker 1: in Mormon country. Jen Shaw was proof positive that a

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Speaker 1: Real Housewives incarnation based in Salt Lake City could actually work.

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Speaker 5: The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City is an interesting

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Speaker 5: franchise because it touches on Mormon culture, people who have

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Speaker 5: left the Mormon Church, drinking, which is kind of taboo

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Speaker 5: in Utah, and there's a lot of drinking on this show,

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Speaker 5: and the relationships of some women who have known each

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Speaker 5: other for quite a long period of time in a

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Speaker 5: really small community, a very very elite part of Salt

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Speaker 5: Lake society. And it's not even really Salt Lake it

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Speaker 5: seems to.

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Speaker 1: Mostly be part city.

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Speaker 5: So it's a very interesting slice of life into how

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Speaker 5: these women live. And I think jen knew that she

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Speaker 5: wasn't going to be the nice one that kind of

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Speaker 5: brought the groups together, because the most dynamic and some

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Speaker 5: of the fan favorite housewives tend to be a bit polarizing.

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Speaker 5: They tend to be the ones who aren't afraid to

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Speaker 5: mix it up.

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Speaker 4: Here, my friend, and if everybody's done anything too, I

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Speaker 4: would stack to one thousands of cents.

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Speaker 5: So she walked that line of really lashing out against people,

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Speaker 5: but also being in almost every single scene of all

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Speaker 5: three seasons. This was a calculated, curated persona.

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Speaker 1: What no one knew at the time was that in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways, jen Shaw tricked Bravo into casting

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Speaker 1: her on their Real Housewives. She presented a life that

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Speaker 1: was actually a house of cards ready to fall, and conversely,

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Speaker 1: Bravo had its own spin on things coming down the pike.

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Speaker 11: Angie Harrington has left the church, Whitney has left the church.

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Speaker 11: Jen has left the church all before they were on

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Speaker 11: the show, So they kind of have Mormon adjacent people

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Speaker 11: who at least are somewhat aware of it.

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Speaker 1: That's Scott Pierce, a TV writer for the Salt Lake Tribune.

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Speaker 1: It's like Bravo's whole intention of casting Salt Lake City

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Speaker 1: was to put the Mormon angle into it. But when

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Speaker 1: you drill right down, there are no practicing Mormons on

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Speaker 1: that show, not any.

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Speaker 8: Fully active I don't think you could actually have them

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Speaker 8: because I'm not sure that you could be on Real

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Speaker 8: Housewives if you don't drink. There are no I mean,

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Speaker 8: I don't want to say card carrying Mormons, but active

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Speaker 8: members of the church have a temple recommending can go

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Speaker 8: into the temple. The only cast member at all who

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Speaker 8: apparently still goes to church is Lisa.

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Speaker 1: Lisa Barlowe, the housewife with long flowing brown hair who

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Speaker 1: also co owns a tequila company with her husband.

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Speaker 8: I love that, and she clearly does not have a

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Speaker 8: temple recommend because she drinks, among other things.

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Speaker 6: She is not a fully active member of the church.

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Speaker 1: So a temple recommend is a certificate issued by the

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Speaker 1: Church of Latter day Saints that allows a Mormon to

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Speaker 1: actually enter the church and be a practicing Mormon. But

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Speaker 1: a Temple recommends certificate has got to be earned. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of like a college degree. It takes two years

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Speaker 1: to get one, and drinking is a major disqualifier.

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Speaker 6: Heather kind of sorta was in when it started.

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Speaker 1: Heather Gay, the blonde who owns beauty Labin laser.

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Speaker 8: But she has all together left and the other ones

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Speaker 8: who were Mormon aren't anymore and weren't when the show started.

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Speaker 1: Salt Lake City is kind of a small town, so

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Speaker 1: much so that years before Scott Pearce was writing about

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Speaker 1: Jen Shaw and the Housewives for The Tribune, she actually

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Speaker 1: lived on his block.

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Speaker 6: She did used to live a couple durs down from me.

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Speaker 6: Quite a number of years ago. A couple of our

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Speaker 6: kids played together.

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Speaker 8: My primary memory is Jen and Sharif coming over, and

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Speaker 8: I'm sure it was at Sharif's instigation, just to introduce

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Speaker 8: themselves because the kids were playing. You know, her older

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Speaker 8: son and my son were playing together, and she didn't

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Speaker 8: say a whole lot.

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Speaker 6: Jarif did most of the talking.

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Speaker 1: She is so outspoken and vocal. It's hard to imagine

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Speaker 1: her in that situation not saying a lot.

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Speaker 8: I have nothing negative to say about that. It's just

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Speaker 8: when they announced the cast, I went, well, that's unusual.

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Speaker 1: I think.

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Speaker 8: What a lot of people don't realize who don't live here,

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Speaker 8: is that Cherif has a much.

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Speaker 6: Bigger name than Jen. You know, he was a star

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Speaker 6: football player at the University of Utah. He's been a

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Speaker 6: coach for many years, so his name was familiar. Hers

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Speaker 6: was not.

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Speaker 1: But that all changed quick thanks to Housewives. Back when

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Speaker 1: you were writing about Jen Shaw, when she was on

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Speaker 1: the show, What was your understanding of what she did

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Speaker 1: for a living to make all that money.

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Speaker 6: I didn't get it.

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Speaker 8: I knew that it was something with online marketing, and

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Speaker 8: I will admit that when it started I didn't worry

430
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Speaker 8: about it too much. We didn't really see her working much.

431
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Speaker 8: I didn't really give it a whole lot of thought,

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Speaker 8: which doesn't reflect well on me. I guess for not

433
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Speaker 8: being more curious about that. But I never understood it,

434
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Speaker 8: and even when she would explain it on the show,

435
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Speaker 8: I still didn't understand it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I can tell you I've been investigating con

437
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 1: artists for five years now, and that is one of

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00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: the signs of a con. They're vague, right about how

439
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: the money comes in, where the money comes from. It's vague.

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00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: It's this, it's that. And maybe she tells different people

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Speaker 1: different stories, but the fact that she could never clearly

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Speaker 1: explain it. You're an educated guy. If you didn't get it,

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Speaker 1: I sure as heck didn't get it.

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Speaker 8: I guess we could say that Real Housewives has performed

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Speaker 8: somewhat of a public service because I never thought of

446
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 8: this stuff before, and now I'm more aware of it.

447
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 6: And as you say, the vagueness. When I look back at.

448
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 8: It now, it's like, well that, as you say, that's

449
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,719
Speaker 8: a sign I was not aware of that before.

450
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 6: I'm guessing that there are other people who were not.

451
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: Aware of that. For the record, this is what Jenshaw

452
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 1: said publicly about how she makes her money back in

453
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: twenty twenty on Access Hollywood's Housewives Nightcap.

454
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 4: It's funny because a lot of the ladies are like,

455
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 4: oh my god, where does gen get all their money?

456
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 4: And I think part of it is like here in Utah,

457
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 4: the ladies are like, oh my gosh, how does the

458
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 4: brown girl and the black husband have all this money?

459
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 7: Because that's you know what I mean.

460
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 4: They're like, that's weird.

461
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 7: No, it's not weird.

462
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 4: I own three different marketing companies and we do lead

463
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 4: generation data monetization. The best way to describe it is

464
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 4: I'm the Wizard of Oz. I'm like the one behind

465
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 4: the curtain that nobody knows exists, but I'm the one

466
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 4: making everything happen. So when ads are popping to you, guys,

467
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 4: when you're like, how the hell do they know I'm

468
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 4: shopping at Neiman Marcus, that's me. And if you think

469
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 4: about it, you know how much traffic is on the

470
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 4: internet every second, all the people clicking. I'm making money

471
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 4: on every click. Every time you click on anything, I'm

472
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 4: getting some money.

473
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: What Genshaw exhibits is what every con artist exhibits. They

474
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: make their scam so complex and hard to follow and

475
00:25:55,880 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: ideally removed from themselves that they're hard to prosecute. They're

476
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: hard to lay out for a jury because if you

477
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: confuse a jury, you're not going to get a conviction.

478
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: They're just gonna be like, oh, that's reasonable doubt, you know,

479
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: not guilty.

480
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 2: She had a background in telemarketing.

481
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: That's Zach Peter again, a man who spent time with

482
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: almost every Housewife and the Bravo universe on his No

483
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: Filter with Zach Peter podcast. He studied the way Jenshaw

484
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: rose up in the telemarketing ranks and.

485
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 2: Kind of built her way up in that channel of

486
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,479
Speaker 2: you know, calling up people and saying, hey, is your

487
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 2: student loan? Do you owe student loan debt? And so

488
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 2: she learned the trick of the trade, and then eventually,

489
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 2: it seems she continued to build upon that until she

490
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: had her own business. It was seemingly profitable, but not

491
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 2: enough and I think she ended up coming on real

492
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 2: houses of Salt Lake City as a way to get

493
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 2: out of that and as a way to kind of

494
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 2: build herself, because she clearly has an ego, and I think,

495
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 2: you know, fame and money were just her biggest motivations.

496
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: When I was eighteen years old, I got a job

497
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: in telemarketing. You know, this is before I started waiting tables,

498
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: before I did singing telegrams. That's a whole lot of story.

499
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 1: And I couldn't do it longer than a week. I

500
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 1: quit because have you ever worked telemarketing? Now, it's a

501
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 1: hard effing job. You have a computer monitor with your script,

502
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: and based on what the person tells you is what

503
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: button you pressed to read like you're just a thankless

504
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: drone reading what you're told. And then you have to

505
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: make a sale. And then your boss is listening in

506
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: and all the calls, and there's so much pressure to

507
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: make a sale, make a sale, make a sale. Like

508
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: I couldn't last a week. I quit.

509
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 2: All I know about telemarketing is those are the people

510
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 2: I hang up on.

511
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean now me too. It's a tough road

512
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: to hoe.

513
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 2: But I think that's why somebody like Genshaw was able

514
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 2: to make it profitable is because she ended up targeting

515
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 2: vulnerable people, people that you know you can essentially con.

516
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: And the extent of her conning, the complexity and how

517
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: long it went on is something that took the FEDS

518
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: years to fully untangle.

519
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 2: It was awful what she did to those people.

520
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: It really was.

521
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 2: She turned up their lives for what a fake Fendi bag.

522
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: Congrats girl.

523
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 1: Next time on Queen of the Con.

524
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 6: The operators they pump you for information.

525
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 1: They we dissect the kinds of scammy telemarketing calls Jenshaw

526
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 1: used to build seniors out of millions.

527
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 4: What happens if I don't make good money at this.

528
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 9: At the end of thirty days, if you have not

529
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 9: returned on your vet Nick, we will give you a

530
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 9: refund back.

531
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 5: I think what Jenshaw was leaning into is this is

532
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 5: just marketing. Okay, so we're lying in our marketing practices,

533
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 5: but that's not WIREFID. You don't go to prison for that.

534
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: Queen of the Con The Unreal Housewife is a production

535
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: of AYR Media and iHeartMedia, hosted by me Jonathan Walton.

536
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: Executive producers Jonathan Walton for Jonathan Alton Productions and Elisa

537
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: Rosen for AYR Media. Written by Jonathan Walton, Segment producer

538
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: Gregory Harvey, Senior Associate producer Jill Pshesnik, Coordinator Melena Krolyevsky.

539
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: Sound design by Tim Mulhern, Edited and mixed by Tim Mulhern.

540
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: Supervising producer Victoria Chang, Audio engineer Justin Mongerbean studio engineer

541
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: Maximo Abraham. Mastered by Victoria Chang. Legal counsel for AYR Media,

542
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: Gianny Douglas, Executive producer for iHeartMedia, Maya Howard. If you're

543
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: enjoying Queen of the Khan, click that share button and

544
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Speaker 1: send it to your friends and family. Also, if you

545
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: can leave us a five star review, reviews really help

546
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: other listeners find US court records, police records, the Department

547
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: of Justice, Homeland Security, victim interviews, interviews with investigators. ABC News,

548
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: Time Magazine, US Weekly, TMZ, People Access, Hollywood, and Bravo's

549
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: Real Housewives of Salt Lake City were the sources used

550
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: for this season of Queen of the Khan