Speaker 1: Welcome back to cutting the distance. It's almost September, and
Speaker 1: how can we not be excited? The elkra is right
Speaker 1: around the corner. This is absolutely one of my favorite
Speaker 1: times of the year. I'm fine tuned in my broadheads,
Speaker 1: making final tweaks to my gear, starting to build my
Speaker 1: first day hunt plans from when I get to my spot.
Speaker 1: I just love everything about you know that end of
Speaker 1: August transition into September archery. Elk hunting is right around
Speaker 1: the corner. On today's episode, I don't have a guest.
Speaker 1: It's going to be just me as I have quite
Speaker 1: a few detailed questions from our listeners that I want
Speaker 1: to dive into and kind of try to give some
Speaker 1: good answers to. And then I'm going to talk about
Speaker 1: some strategies that I don't personally use all that often,
Speaker 1: but I'm able to recognize when they're gonna work great
Speaker 1: and when we should deploy them, such as sitting wallows
Speaker 1: such as ambushing elk spot in stock tree stand hunting,
Speaker 1: baiting if it's legal in your state, and some of
Speaker 1: those more out of the box. I wouldn't say they're
Speaker 1: out of the box. They're out of the box for
Speaker 1: the way that we hunt, you know, when we're out
Speaker 1: there for a certain situation and a certain encounter with
Speaker 1: the elk. But these are very very good strategies in
Speaker 1: the right scenarios. So look look forward to talking about
Speaker 1: that a little bit, a little bit different from our
Speaker 1: typical aggressive bugle call type stuff. So excited to kind
Speaker 1: of dig into that. We're gonna start this episode like
Speaker 1: every other episode, We're gonna jump into listener questions and
Speaker 1: if you have questions for us, myself or my guests,
Speaker 1: feel free to send us a message on any of
Speaker 1: our social media channels, or you can email us at
Speaker 1: CTD at Phelps game Calls dot com. And that's where
Speaker 1: all of these questions come from as through our email today.
Speaker 1: Our first question today is from Cole Marley. He's from Idaho,
Speaker 1: where he typically hunts out. They seem to completely shut
Speaker 1: down at various times in the morning. I've heard stories
Speaker 1: of guys having better success calling bulls in the middle
Speaker 1: of the day or calling to bet at elk. He's
Speaker 1: just wondering if I could talk about how you go
Speaker 1: about or any tips that you have for calling elk
Speaker 1: specifically in the middle of the day. So I don't
Speaker 1: want to like tiptoe around the question, Cole, but there's
Speaker 1: no rhyme or reason to win. And what makes elk
Speaker 1: more active in the morning versus the middle of the
Speaker 1: day or vice versa, And what I would if I
Speaker 1: had to try to put some thought to it, after
Speaker 1: talking to biologists and just seeing what happens, you know,
Speaker 1: from day to day, where it could be, you know,
Speaker 1: the ret could be crazy one day, dead the next day,
Speaker 1: crazy the next day. One thing that I'm starting to
Speaker 1: think is likely is cows and that herd just being
Speaker 1: in Estris, right, if those bulls recognize a cow is
Speaker 1: at Estriss or not, and if that times with early morning,
Speaker 1: mid day, whatever it may be, because those pheromones, once
Speaker 1: she's been bred kind of shut off. So if it
Speaker 1: kicks in the middle of the day, the rut is
Speaker 1: going to kick in, you know, or seem to have
Speaker 1: kicked in, or the bulls are going to start biggling
Speaker 1: more in the middle of the day versus if that's
Speaker 1: like a carryover from the night before. So I think
Speaker 1: those cows, you know, being in Estris during that specific
Speaker 1: time definitely plays into that, you know, where it seems
Speaker 1: like a morning's really good, you know, then it's not good,
Speaker 1: then it is good. It's just whether those cows are
Speaker 1: coming in or not during that time. The second thing
Speaker 1: that usually seems to matter a lot is the dynamics
Speaker 1: of the herd that's there. Is it is it one
Speaker 1: large herd bowl and no satellite bulls close to them?
Speaker 1: Is there a semi mature satellite bowl? Kind of challenging
Speaker 1: that bowl, especially when there are cows in estrus, so,
Speaker 1: you know, and there's been times where multiple herds end
Speaker 1: up in one spot, which we kind of coin as
Speaker 1: a rutfest. You know, multiple herds end up in one
Speaker 1: spot trying to you know, get to that good food
Speaker 1: that area they like to be or hang out for
Speaker 1: the evening. That will really kind of kick off that
Speaker 1: morning rut where it seems like everything's going nuts very
Speaker 1: early in the morning. But then to get more to
Speaker 1: your question on calling ELK in the middle of the
Speaker 1: day and specifically calling to bett at ELK for my
Speaker 1: normal style, I would say where we may be call
Speaker 1: quite a bit. You know, we're we're we're locating, we're
Speaker 1: getting in tight and we're being aggressive on on midday calling.
Speaker 1: A lot of times you're going to sneak in, or
Speaker 1: we're gonna sneak in on those elk and try to
Speaker 1: get as absolutely close as we can. There are instances
Speaker 1: where if he's bugling a lot, we may be a
Speaker 1: little more aggressive. But if you're getting one or two
Speaker 1: lazy betted beagles every every so often and he's not
Speaker 1: really aggressive, we're gonna use that just to kind of
Speaker 1: pinpoint him and get very very close. You know, the
Speaker 1: better idea you have of his location, you know, the
Speaker 1: tighter you can get. A lot of times we seek
Speaker 1: go into a patch of timber. We don't know exactly
Speaker 1: where they're going to bed. You can't exactly pinpoint his bugle,
Speaker 1: especially once you get over there, so you're just methodically
Speaker 1: picking your way to their spot. And then I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be a lot more hesitant. I'm gonna be a lot
Speaker 1: less aggressive. And what I usually like to do when
Speaker 1: we're in these midday is get as close as we
Speaker 1: can and then be quiet. That bowl will eventually bugle somewhere.
Speaker 1: You know, he's either gonna get up, you know, after
Speaker 1: they've be embedded for an hour or two and go
Speaker 1: grab water, or he's gonna check on his cows again.
Speaker 1: A lot of times you're gonna see that bowl. If
Speaker 1: you're close enough, you can watch him get up out
Speaker 1: of his bed and nudge your bump cows, get him
Speaker 1: to stand up, check on him, and then he's gonna
Speaker 1: go to the next one. He may do that and
Speaker 1: then he may stay right there. But a lot of
Speaker 1: times or at times, he will then go venture off,
Speaker 1: knowing that none of his cows need attention, and go
Speaker 1: to a water source if it's close by. That is
Speaker 1: a great time if you can time that, because the
Speaker 1: bowls on his feet, he's going to be more apt to,
Speaker 1: you know, come in your direction, uh to to a
Speaker 1: bowl that that's buggling close to his cows. The other
Speaker 1: time I really like to do that is on the
Speaker 1: back end, when they're going to get up for their night.
Speaker 1: You know they're going to go back out to feed.
Speaker 1: If you can wait that long. We've sat on betted
Speaker 1: elk two three four, five hours at a time waiting
Speaker 1: for the right time. You don't want to insert yourself
Speaker 1: and just become a crazy aggressive bowl when the rest
Speaker 1: of the elk are betted down. It may work, but
Speaker 1: I would think just from our our trial and air
Speaker 1: that going in calling to those more you know they're
Speaker 1: they're hot, they're they're typically you know they're they're trying
Speaker 1: to be in the shade. They're a little more reserved
Speaker 1: at that time, I would say less aggression, and then
Speaker 1: your timing is more important. The other thing that some
Speaker 1: people do without calling. Now, I know you've asked about
Speaker 1: calling to bettedt out, but one thing we've did before
Speaker 1: is if you can get close enough to the cows.
Speaker 1: We've got within sixty seventy yards of the betted cows
Speaker 1: and is heard, you can just be patient and not
Speaker 1: call it all as long as you've got the wind right.
Speaker 1: A lot of times that bull will come check on
Speaker 1: that cow. He knows that she's betted over there, he'll
Speaker 1: come check on her. And that may be an opportunity
Speaker 1: when he gets very close to your location. One you
Speaker 1: may just have a shot, depending on how close you
Speaker 1: can get, and two you may need to only call
Speaker 1: him ten to fifteen yards off of that. But typically, now,
Speaker 1: what calls do we use, I would say we probably
Speaker 1: challenged biegal, you know, eighty percent of the time. So
Speaker 1: we go from very reserved calling to no calling at
Speaker 1: all to basically like a very in your face call.
Speaker 1: I don't feel a cow call is gonna work very well.
Speaker 1: And that's that scenario because he already knows where his
Speaker 1: cows are at. He may come check on you. But
Speaker 1: I feel like that bowl at the time they bed down,
Speaker 1: knows where every single one of those cows betted down
Speaker 1: and whether you're one and has heard or not. So
Speaker 1: I tend to stick with bugles in that scenario. Not
Speaker 1: saying the cow calls won't work, that's just kind of
Speaker 1: the system that we run. But yeah, that there's a
Speaker 1: time where those l get back to bed versus the
Speaker 1: time they get up to go feed. That that there
Speaker 1: can be kind of that midday madness where that bowl,
Speaker 1: maybe the satellites try to bed too close to his herd,
Speaker 1: or that bull just kind of gets fired up checking cows.
Speaker 1: That's typically when that happens. That bowl get up is
Speaker 1: kind of that time where they're they're pretty vulnerable, and
Speaker 1: I would say that that the percentage or the chance
Speaker 1: of killing that bull is just as good as any
Speaker 1: other time of the day. So long winded answer, but Cole,
Speaker 1: that's kind of how I would approach you know, bulls,
Speaker 1: you know, potentially not biggling that much in the morning
Speaker 1: and maybe biggling more in the middle of the day.
Speaker 1: Just handle it like anything else, make your move. I'm
Speaker 1: just I just tend to be a little more quiet
Speaker 1: right up until that point of trying to call that
Speaker 1: bowl in. And yeah, so we're gonna jump into our
Speaker 1: next question from Andy Summers. He's elk kinded in Colorado
Speaker 1: just about every Labor Day weekend going for twenty five years.
Speaker 1: He's pretty confident with a call in his mouth, although
Speaker 1: in this situation that we're going to explain, he opted
Speaker 1: not to use it. He's curious how we would have
Speaker 1: handled it. So he was slipping in up an east
Speaker 1: facing slope toward a wallow in thick timber with about
Speaker 1: two hours of evening left. This is an area that
Speaker 1: received some hunting pressure, and he's almost one hundred percent
Speaker 1: encountering elk in this area in the morning. Over the
Speaker 1: past several years, they frequently moved quietly through the area
Speaker 1: to bed near a wallow. Fairly early. The thermals were
Speaker 1: already moving down slape this evening. As he was hunting
Speaker 1: up towards the wallow, heard a twig snap and a
Speaker 1: very heavy mature bowl materialized to his left and up
Speaker 1: the mountain. He was about thirty five yards steeply quartered
Speaker 1: away when he first saw him and was slowly feeding
Speaker 1: his way toward the wallow. He tried his best to
Speaker 1: work closer for a shot, but the train just wouldn't
Speaker 1: allow it, as there were blowdowns everywhere, so he opted
Speaker 1: to day put let the bull get ahead of him
Speaker 1: and as the wall it was about one hundred or
Speaker 1: so yards up the mountain and what he had, what
Speaker 1: he considered the best feed for the night was below him,
Speaker 1: thinking the bull would come back and ambush him in
Speaker 1: that spot once again. Timeline September seventh or eighth, fast forward.
Speaker 1: The ball didn't retrace his steps, didn't utter a sound,
Speaker 1: and slipped away in the opposite direction, and then he
Speaker 1: slipped out. He didn't hunt the area the next day.
Speaker 1: He just wanted to know what would we have did different?
Speaker 1: And Andy, this is where you know, we we claim
Speaker 1: to be experts or experienced, there are times and this
Speaker 1: might not be a great answer what you're looking for.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna preface this with there are times where you
Speaker 1: have to make a decision and there's risks right if
Speaker 1: you don't pursue and let him get to that wallow.
Speaker 1: There's three hundred and sixty degree direction that he can go,
Speaker 1: and if he doesn't go in about a ten degree
Speaker 1: sliver of that, you're never going to get a shot. Right,
Speaker 1: So you're trying to weigh that risk. But you also
Speaker 1: added in that you thought the best night feed where
Speaker 1: they were going to want to go, or maybe where
Speaker 1: the elk typically go, was below you, So you added
Speaker 1: that in and thought that there was a good chance
Speaker 1: he was going to come back by you. This is
Speaker 1: one thing where hindsight is always twenty twenty. Right now
Speaker 1: you're thinking, like, dang it, me sitting here was not
Speaker 1: the right answer, But what other decision could you have
Speaker 1: come up with that maybe had a better higher rate?
Speaker 1: And even then the higher rate, all you're doing is
Speaker 1: running scenarios to your head trying to figure out what
Speaker 1: is the higher rate. It doesn't necessarily mean that's what
Speaker 1: the elk's going to do, so don't Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: we can always overthink these things, and there are decisions
Speaker 1: we make on the mountain or in the elk woods
Speaker 1: day after day that just do not pencil out for us.
Speaker 1: And it's what makes it fun. What makes us like
Speaker 1: a a big chess chess game, You know, like one
Speaker 1: or two moves isn't gonna win the thing for you.
Speaker 1: It takes it's an overall strategy and doing things over
Speaker 1: and over that put yourself in the position to do that. Now,
Speaker 1: with that said, I tend to think and my brain
Speaker 1: goes to which gets me in trouble A lot is
Speaker 1: if I follow this ball, at least I can guarantee
Speaker 1: that we have an encounter versus the let's hang back
Speaker 1: and and see if he comes back. Now, I also
Speaker 1: put a lower percentage on that working out, like if
Speaker 1: if I, if I can pursue this elk, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a chance that he's going to be at that
Speaker 1: wallow or he's going to stay at that wallow for
Speaker 1: a minute or two. You know, without knowing exactly how
Speaker 1: thick the blowdown is. Now, if it's thick, impenetrable blowdown
Speaker 1: that you can't get through without being quiet, or if
Speaker 1: you need to be quiet, your your play probably had
Speaker 1: the you know, the highest success because if the last
Speaker 1: thing you want to do is put a bowl on
Speaker 1: alert is you're approaching, you could have cal called like
Speaker 1: a lone bull within thirty to thirty five yards, like,
Speaker 1: depending on how the blowdown was laid in, you only
Speaker 1: need him to come. You don't even really need him
Speaker 1: to move that much. You just need him to present
Speaker 1: a shot. And this is one of those times where
Speaker 1: calling when a bowl obviously wants to do something different
Speaker 1: may not yield any results. But there are times where
Speaker 1: we have did something like this where a bull wants
Speaker 1: to go different direction, we just happened to be in
Speaker 1: a certain location and we can get that bowl to
Speaker 1: turn and come check you out. So in this instance,
Speaker 1: I probably would have let out a small cow call,
Speaker 1: knowing he was only at thirty to thirty five yards,
Speaker 1: and I just really needed things to kind of change,
Speaker 1: you know, so you didn't have that steep, quartered away shot.
Speaker 1: Maybe he would turn broadside, or maybe he would just
Speaker 1: walk two to three yards in a different path versus
Speaker 1: the you know, angled away direction that he was going.
Speaker 1: You know that all that is tough, and maybe the
Speaker 1: biggest takeaway from your Senate is it's always easy to
Speaker 1: look at the situation afterwards and think you should have
Speaker 1: did something different, but in all reality, it's just archery
Speaker 1: l cunting, And this is kind of that game that
Speaker 1: we get to play. You know, you make decisions. They
Speaker 1: either work or they don't. You think about it the
Speaker 1: next time you're in a similar position. Did that work
Speaker 1: or not? Do you want to just bank that you
Speaker 1: made the best decision the first time and do it again,
Speaker 1: you know, and then it doesn't work, well, then the
Speaker 1: next time you're obviously going to be you know, more aggressive,
Speaker 1: or you're going to try something different, or you know,
Speaker 1: if a bull's doing something similar multiple nights in a row,
Speaker 1: you're like, well, if I get the wind right, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna go hang out at that wallow. You know,
Speaker 1: there's just ways that we adjust throughout a hunt. And
Speaker 1: to be honest, I don't know if I did anything
Speaker 1: different Andy in your situation than than what you did.
Speaker 1: You know, good feed. You're playing to the bulls habit.
Speaker 1: They they're most likely you want to go to that feed.
Speaker 1: He's gonna go grab a drink at the wallow before
Speaker 1: it comes out the feed for the rest of the night.
Speaker 1: There's there's nothing isn't necessarily wrong with that play. And
Speaker 1: like you say, I maybe would have let out a
Speaker 1: small cow call to see if I could have turned him,
Speaker 1: But that's that's really the only thing I would have
Speaker 1: did different. The next list of questions comes from Troy Hayes.
Speaker 1: He sent me in four or five of them here,
Speaker 1: So I'm going to try to start tackling these. Let's
Speaker 1: say you're road bugling early in the morning and you
Speaker 1: throw out a location bugle and you hear a distant
Speaker 1: bugle maybe you know anywhere from three hundred and six
Speaker 1: hundred yards away. Do you keep trying to locate more
Speaker 1: elk or do you moving closer on that specific elk?
Speaker 1: And what's your thought process on moving in? Can you
Speaker 1: break that down for me? So I'm one of those
Speaker 1: guys that usually it's the whole bird in the hand analogy, right,
Speaker 1: Like a bird in the hand is better than you know.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna mess out all up, but you get the
Speaker 1: idea like that is a for sure thing. But I
Speaker 1: also may give it some time to see if there
Speaker 1: are other balls around, because that additional that additional information
Speaker 1: may help. Or a lot of times when we chase
Speaker 1: a bowl, we may mess it up or he may
Speaker 1: become unresponsive, and then our plan is to move in
Speaker 1: the direction of those other elk. So I always want
Speaker 1: to know exactly how many elk are around, it is
Speaker 1: always going to be to my benefit. But then with
Speaker 1: that said, a lot of times we look at two
Speaker 1: things and one or is one of the bulls better sounding?
Speaker 1: Like do we feel like that's the herd bowl? This
Speaker 1: is a satellite bowl? Do we want to chase one
Speaker 1: versus the other the other? Is how aggressive? And how
Speaker 1: much do they continue to bugle? Like is it just
Speaker 1: a returned location bugle or is that bowl now bugling
Speaker 1: on his own getting kind of cranked up just from
Speaker 1: the location, or you know, did he just answer location
Speaker 1: bugle but he's been fired up all morning. We kind
Speaker 1: of think of that, and then also which which one
Speaker 1: allows a better approach? So if a bowl, you know,
Speaker 1: if the wind's in a great location, it seems like
Speaker 1: we've got the terrain right, he's not really moving that fast,
Speaker 1: so he's gonna be in the same location. All that
Speaker 1: stuff kind of weighs into which bowl we're gonna to
Speaker 1: to go after first and then make our changes. But
Speaker 1: what I would say is that you know you had
Speaker 1: mentioned road bugling or locating off of a trail or
Speaker 1: a fire road. I won't leave that location to go
Speaker 1: find the next elk down down the road, you know,
Speaker 1: in a different location. I will usually hunt what we
Speaker 1: have there, knowing that say, on subsequent mornings or the
Speaker 1: next morning, I can go then I can go see
Speaker 1: if there's other elk down the drainage or down the
Speaker 1: road or later that morning. So we usually go after
Speaker 1: what's presented in front of us. But I do like
Speaker 1: to maybe let one or two more location beagles from
Speaker 1: there before I, you know, let's say the roads up
Speaker 1: high dive off, or if the elker above us, you know,
Speaker 1: jump up off the road. I want to know exactly
Speaker 1: what's there, what other elker responding before I make my move,
Speaker 1: and then uh my thought process of moving in It's
Speaker 1: it's very simple. I don't want to to you know,
Speaker 1: people can overcomplicate it. It's really what's the wind doing
Speaker 1: at this moment right now? What's the wind doing at
Speaker 1: the location of that bowl right now? You know, if
Speaker 1: if you're let's say the road's up high and he's
Speaker 1: down in a drainage, is he really close to the
Speaker 1: bottom like, because then I've got to start thinking about
Speaker 1: the wind going down the drainage. Is he halfway up
Speaker 1: the hill? Well, now I've got to think about early
Speaker 1: morning thermals, it's I need to stay off to the
Speaker 1: side of him a couple hundred yards before I move
Speaker 1: any closer, because that there's a potential that that wind
Speaker 1: going down the hill could get pulled in or sucked
Speaker 1: into his location. Where's he going to want to go?
Speaker 1: If I can pick a direction that that bowl wants
Speaker 1: to head bye by the changes of his bugles, by
Speaker 1: where he's feeding versus where I think he wants to bed,
Speaker 1: And then how long is it going to take me
Speaker 1: to get there? And what's the wind going to be
Speaker 1: doing once I do get to that location? All needs
Speaker 1: to be thought about, and there's a little bit of
Speaker 1: a dynamic because all that's changing and moving based on time.
Speaker 1: So that's really what goes through my head as I'm
Speaker 1: approaching and trying to get tight to that out. So
Speaker 1: here's the question number two. Let's say you're road biggling
Speaker 1: early in the morning and don't hear a thing, what's
Speaker 1: your next move work through the north facing slope, thread
Speaker 1: away or am I going to wait until nine or
Speaker 1: ten and hope things are bedded? Are you doing any
Speaker 1: cold calling scenarios? So if I don't hear any bugling,
Speaker 1: early in the morning. That's usually when I lace my
Speaker 1: boots up a little bit tighter, or I if you
Speaker 1: you know, you mentioned road biggling, I'm assuming maybe from
Speaker 1: a vehicle or a gated road. Regardless, I'm just going
Speaker 1: to cover more ground. I'm going to go try to
Speaker 1: find a bull that's buggling in that area. I'm also
Speaker 1: one of the things we always talk about as I'm
Speaker 1: using my glass, like they're unless you're just you know,
Speaker 1: northern you know, if you're here in western Washington, northern
Speaker 1: Idaho where where you may not be able to see,
Speaker 1: you're just gonna have to cover a lot of ground.
Speaker 1: Or if you've got a good idea where elk are at,
Speaker 1: like I I, unless you know you've blown elk out
Speaker 1: of the country, I just assume that those elk are
Speaker 1: still there. They're just being quiet that day, so you
Speaker 1: can you can move into those locations. But typically I
Speaker 1: don't like to still hunt for elk. That means I
Speaker 1: don't like to go into a timber patch when they're
Speaker 1: not talking, or into you know, into old growth or
Speaker 1: into a brush patch, or into any area where those
Speaker 1: elk aren't letting me know. Because you're really you're really
Speaker 1: reducing the odds. No matter how good and quiet you are,
Speaker 1: it's sometimes tough without them at least talking on their own.
Speaker 1: So I usually just cover lots of ridgeline, or I
Speaker 1: would cover more of the road system and try to
Speaker 1: just locate elk that are ready to play the game,
Speaker 1: you know, because even waiting till nine or ten, they
Speaker 1: will potentially bugle from their beds. But they're always going
Speaker 1: to bugle better. Typically you can't say they're always going
Speaker 1: to be a go better, but typically they bugle better
Speaker 1: in the morning, and then bugles get less and less
Speaker 1: and less as you get towards the middle of the day,
Speaker 1: towards the heat of the day. So I always want
Speaker 1: to cover as much ground as early as I can.
Speaker 1: Cold calling scenarios, I will use cold calling scenarios, but
Speaker 1: I don't think cold's the right word. So I won't
Speaker 1: go just to an area that may or may not
Speaker 1: have elk and just call. Now. If I'm starting to
Speaker 1: see sign on the ground, let's say tracks, Let's say
Speaker 1: I'm smelling elk. Let's say I'm seeing fresh rubs an
Speaker 1: area that maybe had elk the night before, I will
Speaker 1: call in those areas but I would call that like
Speaker 1: warm calling. Right, there's a little bit we've got some
Speaker 1: good data to say that that's a good spot to
Speaker 1: invest some time if the elk aren't biggling. My personality,
Speaker 1: my patience doesn't play very well to to warm calling
Speaker 1: scenarios because I always feel that once I'm in September,
Speaker 1: the bulls should be bugling or at least answering me somewhere.
Speaker 1: And so that's kind of what goes through my head.
Speaker 1: Why am I wasting, not say wasting, Why am I
Speaker 1: potentially gonna waste thirty to forty five minutes here where
Speaker 1: I don't feel like my odds are very high of
Speaker 1: getting something to come to this location. With that said,
Speaker 1: people use cold calling, warm culling scenarios and setups every
Speaker 1: year to find all kinds of success. I'm just weighing
Speaker 1: these percent successes in my head. I feel that I'm
Speaker 1: better served covering ground, getting a bowl to respond, and
Speaker 1: then setting up our game than I am sitting in
Speaker 1: one location. So question number three from Troy Ball bugles
Speaker 1: at two hundred yards away. He has no idea if
Speaker 1: he has cows or not. What are the next moves?
Speaker 1: Two hundred yards is pretty pretty close. I may not
Speaker 1: risk moving at all, depending on the terrain vegetation. Now,
Speaker 1: if if everything's laid out nicely and there's no real
Speaker 1: risk of me moving one hundred yards without being busted
Speaker 1: in his direction, and I can do it maybe quietly,
Speaker 1: or I can get you know, without being seen, I
Speaker 1: will do it. I always want to be as close
Speaker 1: as possible. But there are times and I'm you didn't
Speaker 1: say that you located this bowl, so I'm going to
Speaker 1: assume this bowl just bugle on his own. A bullet
Speaker 1: bugles on his own, may be searching for cows. So
Speaker 1: I may get, you know, close that distance, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: fifty seventy one hundred yards, whatever I can get as
Speaker 1: quietly as I can get. I'm gonna listen again. A
Speaker 1: lot of times we before we make a peep, Like,
Speaker 1: I want to know, is that bowlging a beagle on
Speaker 1: his own? Can I hear other elk moving around down there?
Speaker 1: Because by time you get to one hundred yards, like,
Speaker 1: it's pretty easy to typically hear, you know, stick snapping,
Speaker 1: bull's bigeling again, just try to get an idea of
Speaker 1: what's going on. I will, in this situation not necessarily
Speaker 1: bugle right off the bat. This ball has no idea.
Speaker 1: I'm there. I may just let out a cow call.
Speaker 1: It's kind of that lower threat level. See if he
Speaker 1: answers that if this is a satellite bowl searching for
Speaker 1: cows or just a group of satellite bulls that are biggling,
Speaker 1: you're going to get a fairly quick response, and that
Speaker 1: may be all that's needed, where a beagle would have
Speaker 1: actually maybe screwed that up. If you get the idea
Speaker 1: that it is a herd bull and that's all the
Speaker 1: further you can move. I may still be patient in
Speaker 1: this scenario to see if they're heading in my direction already.
Speaker 1: That would be the best case scenario if you if
Speaker 1: you don't necessarily have to call it now. If I
Speaker 1: feel like they're rumning, you rumminggen around there, they're not
Speaker 1: really moving. Maybe that bowl's a little more excited than
Speaker 1: we thought. I may elect to start biggling at this
Speaker 1: bowl or walking on as bugles. But it's it's really
Speaker 1: it's really tough to know in that scenario because he
Speaker 1: didn't answer a beagle. He didn't answer a cow call
Speaker 1: to start with, and there's always some hesitancy when you
Speaker 1: go in there. You don't necessarily want to screw up
Speaker 1: what you just got, right, You just got a bugle
Speaker 1: for free. Now, if I go in there and cow call,
Speaker 1: is that going to shut him up? Not? Typically Usually
Speaker 1: the way you know the elk work, he's gonna he's
Speaker 1: gonna be agle. He's gonna invite you as a new
Speaker 1: cow into his herd or to come hang out. He'll bugle,
Speaker 1: you know, a bugle within one hundred yards typically won't
Speaker 1: give him the ability to take his cows and run,
Speaker 1: but you never know. So this one is usually one
Speaker 1: of those times where I'll start with like the lowest
Speaker 1: threat level, you know, calf cow sounds maybe into a
Speaker 1: money or more whiny bugle, and then you know, depending
Speaker 1: on how things escalator don't, maybe we'll get into challenge beagles.
Speaker 1: But that's kind of what I would do in that scenario.
Speaker 1: So question four. It's the middle of September. You get
Speaker 1: the camp, mid afternoon, get everything unpacked, head out to
Speaker 1: glass a couple of meadows, and you locate let's say,
Speaker 1: a smaller herd two to five cows, one to two bulls.
Speaker 1: What's your next move that evening? But then also the
Speaker 1: next morning, so it depends on how quick I can
Speaker 1: get there. It depends on how quickly those elker moving.
Speaker 1: If you feel like they're gonna hang out in that meadow,
Speaker 1: or if you think they're gonna move, do you feel
Speaker 1: like they're gonna move out of that meadow for the morning.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of this stuff you just have to
Speaker 1: make guesses on, And that's based on how fast the
Speaker 1: alker moving, Are they content are they just sitting feeding
Speaker 1: and not really making up any ground? You know, All
Speaker 1: that stuff will will play in and I will make
Speaker 1: my decision on whether I feel like my chance of
Speaker 1: killing that bull is a high enough level that's worth
Speaker 1: me going over there, or do I feel like the
Speaker 1: wind play is better in the morning, or is the
Speaker 1: wind play gonna be perfect tonight. All that plays into
Speaker 1: whether I'm gonna just watch them maybe just try to
Speaker 1: figure them out so I can keep an eye on
Speaker 1: those elk, But then maybe you're gonna glass a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of other country. Like if I if I invest
Speaker 1: in that night, like yeah, I could go after but
Speaker 1: I think my odds are better in the morning, Well,
Speaker 1: then that's utilize the rest of the evening to try
Speaker 1: to locate herds. Two three, four, and five, and then
Speaker 1: you make your decision on out of those five or
Speaker 1: six options, which one do I think get you know,
Speaker 1: is gonna yield the best percentage or the best chance
Speaker 1: for me to be successful in the morning, and then
Speaker 1: go after those ones. So it just it just really depends.
Speaker 1: I will say, typically default too if I feel like
Speaker 1: there's a good enough chance, I don't like let that
Speaker 1: opportunity get away, because those elk may not be anywhere
Speaker 1: around in the morning. Typically they will be, but there
Speaker 1: are times where you know, you expect them to be
Speaker 1: there in the morning and they're not anywhere to be found,
Speaker 1: and you know, they may not be there at all anymore,
Speaker 1: they may have moved a half a mile away or
Speaker 1: into a different drainage. So I usually try to like,
Speaker 1: you know, seize the moment or capitalize on the on
Speaker 1: the on the opportunity in front of me. But there
Speaker 1: are times where we will you know, kick the can
Speaker 1: down the road, uh, you know, go after him in
Speaker 1: the morning, but then also use night to find more
Speaker 1: additional elk or you know, a lot of times if
Speaker 1: you take off, you can't watch them anymore. You may
Speaker 1: miss a lot of information. If you were to sit
Speaker 1: and watch them for that next two hours. You may
Speaker 1: see bulls coming up and over the ridge line into
Speaker 1: that meadow, or bulls leaving or cows joining, which we'll
Speaker 1: definitely add to you know, some of the things you
Speaker 1: need to think about as you head over there. Last
Speaker 1: question for Troy. The bulls beg lean back and forth
Speaker 1: with you. Every time you try to close a distance
Speaker 1: on him and beagle again, he does a round up
Speaker 1: beagle and pushes out and moves further away. What are
Speaker 1: the tactics to kill this bull? So we do this
Speaker 1: a lot. We call it the kind of that cat
Speaker 1: and mouse we're chasing an elk. It seems like we
Speaker 1: make ground, he moves ground. There's two things you can
Speaker 1: do here, and I would say later in the hunt,
Speaker 1: I would do number one. You can just be very aggressive.
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to push that boundary very very close,
Speaker 1: maybe tighter than you have And a lot of times
Speaker 1: I like to save that aggressive play when there's a
Speaker 1: train feature or a vegeta feature in front of you
Speaker 1: that allows you to be a little more aggressive. So
Speaker 1: let's say you're on some finger ridges, you're in some
Speaker 1: timber and you can see the elk kind of crest
Speaker 1: over the top. It's at that point where I may
Speaker 1: just be very quick and try to gain as much
Speaker 1: ground as I can, hoping that that bowl has only moved,
Speaker 1: you know, thirty or forty yards, So we're very very tight.
Speaker 1: But he didn't see me. He didn't hear me as
Speaker 1: I close that distance. The other thing you can do
Speaker 1: is if you know the direction they're ultimately trying to head,
Speaker 1: is pull out and make a big circle out in
Speaker 1: front of them. And now this circle, you also need
Speaker 1: to think. You've got to be very conservative as far
Speaker 1: as not being winded, not being heard to try to
Speaker 1: get out and ahead, and you have to think of
Speaker 1: how fast this herds moving, because you need to make
Speaker 1: a big circle and make sure that you're way out ahead.
Speaker 1: A lot of times the reason this won't work is
Speaker 1: elk aren't dumb animals. If they're moving in a direction,
Speaker 1: I've got to assume that the wind is going to
Speaker 1: be pretty constant in the opposite direction. And so when
Speaker 1: you go to make your circle out in front, how
Speaker 1: are you going to accomplish that without being winded? Because
Speaker 1: elk will not move unless they're spooked or scared. Typically
Speaker 1: in the downwind direction they're going, or I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: my directions off, but they're not. They're walking into the
Speaker 1: wind right and if you get in front of them,
Speaker 1: they're now able to wind you. So keep that in mind.
Speaker 1: So a lot of times if I can make an
Speaker 1: aggressive play, I will without a high risk of spooking them.
Speaker 1: And then there are times where we may just need
Speaker 1: to back out if it's early in a hunt. If
Speaker 1: you know, those elk are content being there, and we
Speaker 1: may just come back at them a different day. So
Speaker 1: thanks a lot for all those questions. The last question
Speaker 1: is into us from Jake Harold. He says he's got
Speaker 1: a serious problem that maybe just as equally suited for
Speaker 1: a psychologist as it is for us here on cutting
Speaker 1: the distance. So he has a major case in history
Speaker 1: of bull fever. He's got the good fortune every year
Speaker 1: being able to call an ELC to shooting distance, even
Speaker 1: on solo hunting, but when that bull's coming in, a
Speaker 1: switch flips in his brain and he just gets He says,
Speaker 1: his mind actually gets clear, but he's got some sort
Speaker 1: of an adrenaline dump that is overwhelming and shuts down
Speaker 1: his system. So he talks about being able to call
Speaker 1: a bull in He uh, it was perfect, you know,
Speaker 1: picture perfect at thirty yards, but he couldn't get his
Speaker 1: bow drawn. His you know, his arms felt like they're
Speaker 1: full lead, too heavy to lift. He said. It's like
Speaker 1: he's got a serious issue. That's like psychologically messes him
Speaker 1: up over the encounter. But he doesn't have an issue
Speaker 1: with ky Elk, no issues on rifle hunts with him
Speaker 1: not being able to keep his composure. It just happens
Speaker 1: with big bulls on archery hunts. You know, aside from
Speaker 1: jabbing himself with pins or like clinically diagnosed solutions, what
Speaker 1: can he do to to simulate or learn to manage
Speaker 1: his adrenaline dump. This one's tough, but I can relate.
Speaker 1: I didn't have it to I've never been able to
Speaker 1: not draw my bow, but early in my archery l
Speaker 1: cunting career, and I still do. I get I get
Speaker 1: jacked up, I get excited. I love when when bulls
Speaker 1: are moving into my location. There were times I had
Speaker 1: a little bit of a different issue early on. I
Speaker 1: couldn't I would forget everything that I knew from that
Speaker 1: summer or from shooting at the range on how to
Speaker 1: aim my bow everything fell apart. Like I can get
Speaker 1: my bow drawn, I can get what I thought was
Speaker 1: everything settled down, but I would forget to level my bubble.
Speaker 1: I would forget to you know, like talk myself through
Speaker 1: which pin I'm going to use, settle the pin, pick
Speaker 1: a spot. So I didn't have the same issue. I
Speaker 1: went through a scenario. And one thing that worked for me, Jake,
Speaker 1: was to really methodically practice a system, whether you've got
Speaker 1: to talk to yourself, whether you've got to you know,
Speaker 1: make a sticker and stick it on your riser, and
Speaker 1: it could be as simple as breathe. You know. Uh,
Speaker 1: there might be times where and I'm not I'm not
Speaker 1: going to try to clinically diagnose why you couldn't get
Speaker 1: your bow drawn, But a lot of times, guys, will
Speaker 1: you stop breathing for forty five you know, it's almost
Speaker 1: like you hold your breath and that can affect you
Speaker 1: being able to get your bow drawn. So, you know,
Speaker 1: writing something on your riser as simple as like breathe,
Speaker 1: draw you know, anchor Like I know you say you're
Speaker 1: saying you can't get to that, but just like the
Speaker 1: reminder of breathe and then when you're out practicing before
Speaker 1: your shots. You know, when you're practicing, you know in
Speaker 1: your driveway or your range and getting ready to uh
Speaker 1: to for season, Like make sure you add that in,
Speaker 1: Like you give yourself like ten seconds of calculated, methodical breathing,
Speaker 1: deep breast hold it in. You know all I'm not
Speaker 1: claiming to be you know, a guy that's going to
Speaker 1: teach you how to you know, do all that. But
Speaker 1: whatever your breathing system is, like practice it and you
Speaker 1: know some of those things just having a simple checklist, breathe, draw,
Speaker 1: draw early, whatever it is, like, come up with a
Speaker 1: system that will allow you to get through some of
Speaker 1: these difficult or sticky points. You know, it's tough because
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here trying to tell you what maybe maybe
Speaker 1: you should do. But I don't know if breathing is
Speaker 1: going to help you one bit. But it's to come
Speaker 1: up with the way, you know, whitetail hunters. It's a
Speaker 1: little bit of a different mechanism. But guys that sit
Speaker 1: out and freeze in a tree stand have have trouble
Speaker 1: drawing their bows. So I feel like a lot of
Speaker 1: guy set ups are more than capable for ELK. Like
Speaker 1: maybe maybe you're telling me. You couldn't have drawn a
Speaker 1: thirty pound bow back. It wouldn't have mattered, but maybe
Speaker 1: less than your poundage to get through that. You know.
Speaker 1: I had a good hunt with one of my good
Speaker 1: buddies at one time, and he went through a weird
Speaker 1: thing where he couldn't get his bow drawn back. The
Speaker 1: bull spooch terns ten yards and twirls and he's able
Speaker 1: to get his bow all the way back. So I
Speaker 1: think our body, our nervous system, does a bunch of
Speaker 1: weird stuff we can't control. But uh man, Yeah, aside
Speaker 1: from a psychologist or some sort of like EpiPen injection,
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do besides create like a
Speaker 1: very methodical, laid out step by step plan that you
Speaker 1: need to go through on every time you encounter a
Speaker 1: bowl coming to your location. That's about all I've got
Speaker 1: to offer on that one. Is. You know, aside for me,
Speaker 1: the more I get myself put in those situations, the
Speaker 1: more like calm, cool and collective I am, which sounds
Speaker 1: like you're able to call bowls in every year. So
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily the issue. It's it's just you know,
Speaker 1: the the body breaks down and you know, one of
Speaker 1: the things. It's not your situation good, but I love it.
Speaker 1: It's what it keeps me coming back, like that adrenaline dump.
Speaker 1: But you do need to find a way to manage it.
Speaker 1: So best of luck on that. Like I say, I
Speaker 1: think coming up with the system and then using that
Speaker 1: system even when you're practicing, when it doesn't matter, talking
Speaker 1: yourself through it, write it on your bow and hopefully
Speaker 1: that works out for you, Jake. So that's the end
Speaker 1: of our listener questions are quite a few of them there.
Speaker 1: Once again, if you have a question for me or
Speaker 1: any of my guests, please send us a message on
Speaker 1: social media or email us at CTD at Phelpsgamecalls dot com.
Speaker 1: So today we you know, I wanted to get into
Speaker 1: what for me seems like and I don't want to
Speaker 1: call them out of the box because these should definitely
Speaker 1: be in your toolbox type ideas, but stuff that we
Speaker 1: don't talk or educate on or preach as much. So
Speaker 1: I really wanted to dive into those and maybe let
Speaker 1: let you know when I would use those and when
Speaker 1: when I think they've they've got like the best utility.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm searching, and I've said it over and over.
Speaker 1: I'm out there searching for a specific interaction with the elk.
Speaker 1: I want them to bugle, I want them to respond,
Speaker 1: and I want to keep that up until we until
Speaker 1: we call them in. And if you've watched some of
Speaker 1: our videos, it may seem at time like we're buggling
Speaker 1: every twenty five seconds. Now, now I do have to
Speaker 1: throw a little caveat in there. Remember, we are editing
Speaker 1: these things down to the point where it's not really
Speaker 1: exciting just to see us standing there. So you we
Speaker 1: don't bugle that much as we do in the videos.
Speaker 1: But we're also smart enough to realize that there are
Speaker 1: a lot of guys out there that are successful year
Speaker 1: in and year out that don't call the way we do.
Speaker 1: They don't hunt as aggressive as we do. So I
Speaker 1: want to talk about some of those things and way
Speaker 1: and ways that you can find success that maybe aren't
Speaker 1: cranking on a bugle, Maybe aren't you know, using the
Speaker 1: die fram maybe don't use calls at all. So we're
Speaker 1: going to dive into those. We answered a question just
Speaker 1: a little bit ago on you know, hunting hunting bed
Speaker 1: at elk, so heading into their bedding zone quietly, being
Speaker 1: very patient, almost like a spot in stock hunter the
Speaker 1: same way you know you do spot in stock You're
Speaker 1: hearing beagles, you know where they're at. That can be very,
Speaker 1: very productive for me. I sometimes have trouble not calling,
Speaker 1: but there are times, especially in Roosevelt Country, or if
Speaker 1: I've got really good ideas and I've got a good
Speaker 1: pattern on these elk, where I've went into alder patches
Speaker 1: on an elk trail with the wind right, been extremely quiet,
Speaker 1: and been able to get within bow range of an elk.
Speaker 1: I can remember early early in my bow hunting, you know,
Speaker 1: back back in the early days of bow hunting, where
Speaker 1: I was able to kill a bowl by letting him.
Speaker 1: You know, we followed them all morning, We listened to him.
Speaker 1: We knew the setup wasn't good, the wind was never right.
Speaker 1: Let them get into their bedding. We waited an hour,
Speaker 1: hour and a half, let them get comfortable, and we
Speaker 1: then just knew we had some trail systems that we
Speaker 1: could get on without making any noise. Now we always
Speaker 1: talk about, oh, I love archery hunting because I can
Speaker 1: snap sticks and I can break limbs, and the elk
Speaker 1: know the elks should be making sounds. If I'm going
Speaker 1: into a bedding zone. And my goal is to shoot
Speaker 1: an elk that's in there without him knowing that I'm
Speaker 1: in there. I'm going to be like stealth mode quiet.
Speaker 1: I want to go in there, not step on a stick.
Speaker 1: And as you approach. As much as I sometimes don't
Speaker 1: like getting my binoculars out, anytime a new little sliver
Speaker 1: of horizon opens up or a new visible section, you
Speaker 1: need to have your binoculars out. And when you're going
Speaker 1: up over let's say a rise. You know, we all
Speaker 1: know how fast like country opens up for every little
Speaker 1: inch or to you, your eyes pop up. You're literally
Speaker 1: taking a four inch six inch step and glassing you're moving.
Speaker 1: You do not want to get picked off by a cow,
Speaker 1: a bowl, anything that's there. You're you're moving very very slow,
Speaker 1: and you're really picking them apart. Now there is some
Speaker 1: risk associated with us that I don't want to like,
Speaker 1: not talk about. When you're heading into their betting zone.
Speaker 1: Roosevelts especially are so patternable, similar with rockies, Like if
Speaker 1: they've got a betting zone, they like that that provides
Speaker 1: you know, the shade, the security, the wind security, you know,
Speaker 1: swirling winds, whatever it may be. They're going to continue
Speaker 1: to use that, and if you're early in a hunt
Speaker 1: or it may bugger these things up and make these
Speaker 1: elk a little bit unhuntable for a day or two.
Speaker 1: Not always, but if you get picked off or if
Speaker 1: you bump them out of an area where they're comfortable,
Speaker 1: just remember you may have just hurt your odds if
Speaker 1: you wanted to continue to hunt these elk. So if
Speaker 1: you're going to head into their betting area quietly, the
Speaker 1: other thing that typically happens when you have to head
Speaker 1: into their betting area is you don't get the wind perfect.
Speaker 1: You're you're not going to be able to get the
Speaker 1: wind right. You're typically gonna want to head in with
Speaker 1: a wind that's maybe only ninety degrees right, So rather
Speaker 1: than you know, one hundred and eighty degrees on your nose,
Speaker 1: you're going to go in with the wind maybe hitting
Speaker 1: at ninety and so your approach needs to be a
Speaker 1: little more methodical, and you almost have to make a
Speaker 1: decision where you think those ulkra at. But I've always
Speaker 1: been super comfortable as long as the wind is moving,
Speaker 1: you know, side to side on me left, right, right
Speaker 1: to left, I'm comfortable going in there. But typically you're
Speaker 1: not going to be able to approach a betting zone
Speaker 1: with the wind perfect, it just doesn't work. Or if
Speaker 1: you do, the majority of the time they've got additional
Speaker 1: satellite bowls or they've got, you know, things that are
Speaker 1: going to pick you off before you get to the
Speaker 1: main herd. I can remember a time in Idaho we
Speaker 1: had a great plan. We knew exactly where they betted.
Speaker 1: We can kind of see through the burnt timber into
Speaker 1: a shady patch. All the elk betted there. But what
Speaker 1: we didn't see the two satellite bowls that were directly
Speaker 1: down wind of the herd. So I've now changed my approach.
Speaker 1: I'd assume go into the bedding area with the wind
Speaker 1: a little more favorable to the elk. It seems like
Speaker 1: we run into less uh lookouts and things that are
Speaker 1: gonna blow the whole situation for us. And and their
Speaker 1: eyes are typically you know, watching their their their their
Speaker 1: down wind side wallow hunting. I don't have the patience
Speaker 1: for it, but we should always recognize when wallows can
Speaker 1: be effective. And I was on a hunt in Montana
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago where we couldn't figure out
Speaker 1: exactly why elk were in certain areas at times and
Speaker 1: it was almost like clockwork. But we later late in
Speaker 1: the hunt, almost a little bit too late, discovered that
Speaker 1: there were some wallows in the area that were getting hammered.
Speaker 1: And when we would be you know, chasing elk up
Speaker 1: and down a creek ball and then they would hit
Speaker 1: a spot and then they would reverse, We're like, what
Speaker 1: the hell and why did that happen? Come to find
Speaker 1: out it was wallows. So I'm not a huge fan
Speaker 1: of wallows in the morning now, not saying they can't happen,
Speaker 1: but I like, if I'm gonna sit on a wallow,
Speaker 1: which I have done in the past, not with a
Speaker 1: lot of success, but we've had trail cameras on wallows,
Speaker 1: so we've got a lot of good data, I would
Speaker 1: just assume sit on a wallow, you know, if those
Speaker 1: elk and that are getting back to bed at ten
Speaker 1: from about betting on and this kind of keeps me excited.
Speaker 1: So for me, I'd like to chase bugles glass for
Speaker 1: bowls early in the morning, and then if I'm gonna
Speaker 1: switch to a wallow set up, I'm gonna do it
Speaker 1: that that bedding time. And the reason for that is
Speaker 1: as the temperatures heat up, is that bowl goes and
Speaker 1: beds down. Has heard a lot of times he will
Speaker 1: bed them down and then he will come get a
Speaker 1: drink of water, you know, afterwards, or come wallow in
Speaker 1: there to cool down or both. The same thing with
Speaker 1: satellite bowls. A lot of times in the morning they're
Speaker 1: moving with the herd or off of the herd from
Speaker 1: feed the bed. You know, there's they're they're just shadowing that.
Speaker 1: But they may swing in, you know, and grab water
Speaker 1: earlier or later midday. And then a lot of times
Speaker 1: where a wallow will pan out is when those when
Speaker 1: the bowl or the herd gets up from there from
Speaker 1: their betting area and they're gonna head towards their feet area,
Speaker 1: they will swing by and and swing by the wallow
Speaker 1: prior to their nighttime feeding routine. It's it's very patternable.
Speaker 1: The one thing which we talk about all the time
Speaker 1: is the direction. One thing I like to think about
Speaker 1: and I will not sit wallows if it doesn't pencil
Speaker 1: out this way is where are those are going to
Speaker 1: approach from? And can I keep the wind right at
Speaker 1: the time when they're gonna get here. So one of
Speaker 1: the downsides to wallows is uh, what's the wind direction
Speaker 1: going to be doing at the time that those elk
Speaker 1: get here? And a lot of times, yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know what you call the time. It's like that shadow
Speaker 1: that that shadow time right where the the shadows start
Speaker 1: to get long. It's like, all right, you just know
Speaker 1: that elk should be getting up on their feet. It's
Speaker 1: cool down now. The sun's at a point on the
Speaker 1: horizon where everything's cooling off. When it gets to that,
Speaker 1: the wind is typically swirllly, right, we don't We all
Speaker 1: know thermals are changing. All of that changes a lot
Speaker 1: of times. It makes it very tough to sit a
Speaker 1: wallow and keep the wind right. So if I'm going
Speaker 1: to pick that out, you know, is it down below
Speaker 1: their bedding? Is it up above? What time are they
Speaker 1: going to get here? My banking on them getting here
Speaker 1: late after the thermals have changed before. So you just
Speaker 1: got to be fairly careful on sitting a wallow not
Speaker 1: to not to bump them out. And you know, maybe
Speaker 1: it resorts more back to whitetail hunting. But as I
Speaker 1: approach the wallow, like where did I just leave my
Speaker 1: cent trail? Was I able to approach that wallow from
Speaker 1: a direction that no elk is going to have to
Speaker 1: cross that, or a high probability that elk aren't going
Speaker 1: to cross that. So you're because I've I've I've entered
Speaker 1: an area called elk in and had them cross my track,
Speaker 1: and I'm about zero percent successful on bulls or cows
Speaker 1: or any elk being willing to cross my track. So
Speaker 1: we need to be very smart on how we approach
Speaker 1: those wallows, how we get to them, and then where
Speaker 1: we set up on them. One thing that will fix
Speaker 1: the wind a little bit, and it depends a little
Speaker 1: bit on the wallow, whether it's in a depression or
Speaker 1: whether it's high on a ridge, or if it's a
Speaker 1: hanging wallow. You know, is you can use a tree stand.
Speaker 1: Now I've never tree stand hunted elk, but I understand
Speaker 1: well enough that there are certain you know, locations, Let's
Speaker 1: say there's a finger ridge that runs by a wallow,
Speaker 1: or the ability for us to get our scent up
Speaker 1: and above which gives us a whole lot more probability
Speaker 1: that those elk aren't gonna win us when they get
Speaker 1: to the wallow. So tree stands you can use. Over
Speaker 1: a wallow, you can also use tree stands on main
Speaker 1: travel corridors. This is for for patternable elk. They number one.
Speaker 1: Just like when you're hunting white tails or anything, out
Speaker 1: of a tree stand, it gets their eyes off of you,
Speaker 1: so it gives you that freedom to be able to
Speaker 1: not be seen and it get once again. It gets
Speaker 1: the wind out of your way. So I like tree stands.
Speaker 1: If you're in a very patternable area that you know
Speaker 1: the elk are going to the visit by all means,
Speaker 1: a tree stand is a great idea if you've got
Speaker 1: the patients. Now. The one problem with me and a
Speaker 1: tree stand is if I heard a bowl bugle and
Speaker 1: I didn't feel they were coming my way, I would
Speaker 1: get back down onto my tree stand and go chase bugles.
Speaker 1: So it wouldn't work for me. But if you're patient,
Speaker 1: you know, I know guys that sit on wallows for ten, fifteen,
Speaker 1: twenty days and finally make it happen. It takes a
Speaker 1: lot of patient I would say tree stand hunting requires
Speaker 1: a little bit more of a long game play, but
Speaker 1: can be very very effective. Next up is ambush. Once
Speaker 1: again comes back to patternable. I would say, you know,
Speaker 1: tree stands kind of like the long game ambush, where
Speaker 1: ambush is something that you're going to do very quickly
Speaker 1: that morning. You know we've we've spotted elk, or we
Speaker 1: see elk and we know that they're going to use
Speaker 1: like that certain pass that's on the ridge line, or
Speaker 1: they're gonna they're gonna go down through this bottom, or
Speaker 1: they're going to this timber patch. If you've got good
Speaker 1: data on these elk, or good direction or good bead,
Speaker 1: I always kind of consider the way we hunt an
Speaker 1: ambush style. I am trying to cover as much no
Speaker 1: pun intended. I'm cutting the distance. I'm covering as much
Speaker 1: ground with my feet as I want that elk. I
Speaker 1: want to do ninety nine percent of the work, and
Speaker 1: I want those elk to have to move a very
Speaker 1: very short distance. But let's say you don't want to
Speaker 1: call it all. Let's say there's reason you've tried to
Speaker 1: call these elk it's not working. In that case, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna put all my calls in my pocket and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go over to where I think these elk are
Speaker 1: going to go. Buy Some of the cons with ambushing
Speaker 1: is time right? Uh? Are they going to get there
Speaker 1: in time? Are they going to take their time. Another
Speaker 1: concern is are they going to change their pattern just
Speaker 1: slightly you know when uh, you know, we could do
Speaker 1: all the very complex math. But if elk take just
Speaker 1: a slightly different direction from where they're at to where
Speaker 1: you want them to go by, they're now out of
Speaker 1: archery range, right, so you need to maybe you set
Speaker 1: up in a conservative ambush spot, maybe back in the
Speaker 1: timber a little bit more. That way, if they're not
Speaker 1: going to go on your trail, you've got the ability
Speaker 1: to move unseen versus some people. I know, they get
Speaker 1: out on the edge, maybe out in the open, and
Speaker 1: then when the elk decide not to take their path,
Speaker 1: they're kind of pinned down. So there's that. I think
Speaker 1: it's a human trait where we just want to be
Speaker 1: able to see what's going on versus a little more
Speaker 1: conservative Maybe you can listen to beagles and that can
Speaker 1: tell you which direction they're going, you know you can,
Speaker 1: you can make an adjustment on that and once again ambush.
Speaker 1: Same thing we talk about over and over, what's the
Speaker 1: wind going to be doing? And there are times where
Speaker 1: you get into scenario once you decide that you're not
Speaker 1: going to call, I would go over there and not call.
Speaker 1: There's always things that run through my head like, oh,
Speaker 1: I think I should call now because of this, and
Speaker 1: it never seems to work. At the point where I
Speaker 1: decide it hasn't worked the last couple of times, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go over there and truly ambush and set up,
Speaker 1: not call, and hope that they walk by my location
Speaker 1: the last and one of the reasons I don't like
Speaker 1: ambush style without calling, not saying you need to call.
Speaker 1: But one of the other things you're gonna have to
Speaker 1: consider is how far off of this trail do you
Speaker 1: want to set up. There are times where elk will
Speaker 1: move in more of a single file line, but there
Speaker 1: are times where they're running pretty wide right. But guess
Speaker 1: which elk during the rut is typically always last. It's
Speaker 1: the bowl, or he's very close to the end. Not
Speaker 1: saying it always works that way, but a lot of
Speaker 1: times if you're not calling, that bull is kind of
Speaker 1: keeping his herd, heard it up, or he's broke a
Speaker 1: cow off. But they're typically one of the last elk
Speaker 1: to come along. So one of the things that you
Speaker 1: have to think about and is always a little nerve wracking,
Speaker 1: is how are you in a location. Are you in
Speaker 1: an ambush spot that lets all of these elk go
Speaker 1: by you? Is the wind good enough that they're not
Speaker 1: going to catch your wind? You know, thirty yards past you,
Speaker 1: because it may take them to get eighty yards past
Speaker 1: you before that bull goes by. So think about all
Speaker 1: of this as you're setting up for an ambush. Bull's
Speaker 1: going to be you know, always assume the ball is
Speaker 1: going to be last because you need to make it through.
Speaker 1: That is a win good enough for that to happen,
Speaker 1: And then you know, if all those boxes get checked
Speaker 1: and it's it's a decent ambush. Spot spot in stock
Speaker 1: very similar to an ambush versus you're doing as much
Speaker 1: moving as they're doing. You're trying to find a spot
Speaker 1: or you're trying to find a spot where you've finally
Speaker 1: got enough of an advantage without being seen without being heard,
Speaker 1: and typically that advantage is going to come through terrain
Speaker 1: or through the vegetation. It allows you to move without
Speaker 1: being seen, maybe it allows you to move without being heard.
Speaker 1: So spot in stock there are guys that do it
Speaker 1: very effective, and the guys that are good at it
Speaker 1: are just just as successful as the best callers. The
Speaker 1: guys that run the best callings you know, or any
Speaker 1: of these other things. It's a very effective way and
Speaker 1: sometimes a very rewarding and fun challenge to just shadow
Speaker 1: the herd, shadow the herd until you get yourself into
Speaker 1: a location where you can move in for a shot,
Speaker 1: or a lot of times when you're spot in stocking,
Speaker 1: you're getting just close enough that you want that bowl
Speaker 1: to break off and make a loop on another bowl,
Speaker 1: or break a cow off and make a loop back
Speaker 1: from the herd in your direction just enough where you
Speaker 1: can get a shot. And so that's typically when you
Speaker 1: know you're spotting and stocking. You're either shadowing the herd,
Speaker 1: staying close enough that they make a mistake, or there
Speaker 1: are times where you know if the train allows or
Speaker 1: if you're able to keep the wind right and make
Speaker 1: calculated decisions on where you need to get ahead of
Speaker 1: them so that they, you know, veer by you or
Speaker 1: kind of rub off, you know, rub by your location
Speaker 1: another great way to bot in stock. And a lot
Speaker 1: of times there are times where you just get herds
Speaker 1: that seem to be disinterested in you calling. They don't
Speaker 1: care that you're over there calling. You can just tell
Speaker 1: they're not answering you, they're answering the other elk, they're
Speaker 1: answering the other bulls that are there. They just don't.
Speaker 1: And a lot of times if there's a bowl in
Speaker 1: there that you want to kill or you want to
Speaker 1: go after, that is when the spot in stock kind
Speaker 1: of ends up being the right key. They don't give
Speaker 1: a darn about you calling at all. They could care
Speaker 1: less that that you're even in existence. You got to
Speaker 1: switch that spot in stock and make that happen. And
Speaker 1: then the last thing I wanted to talk about, which
Speaker 1: we can do in Washington and check all of your
Speaker 1: local rules and laws, and for anybody where this is
Speaker 1: illegal in your state, don't listen to this part. But
Speaker 1: baiting can be very very effective. You know here in Washington,
Speaker 1: it seems like everybody's always searching for apples that somebody
Speaker 1: has fallen behind your you know, under your apple tree,
Speaker 1: and can we get them and can we put them together?
Speaker 1: I don't even I don't bait here, but we have
Speaker 1: some weird rule. I'm gonna get it completely wrong, but
Speaker 1: it's basically you can have five or ten gallons of
Speaker 1: bait every two hundred and fifty yard space. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: But but there are rules that govern it and here
Speaker 1: for for deer and elk, it's it's legal debate and
Speaker 1: very very patternable. The nice thing is once you got
Speaker 1: this pattern down, even during the rut, these elk will
Speaker 1: typically swing by to see what's you know, in your
Speaker 1: apple pile, or what's in your alfalfa pile or whatever
Speaker 1: you're using, you know, crack corn, whatever it may be.
Speaker 1: They they become very patentable, which is nice because that
Speaker 1: now lets you set up your ground blind, or that
Speaker 1: now lets you set up your tree stand in the
Speaker 1: opposite direction. You know, from a trail camera, you can
Speaker 1: see how they're going to approach, where they're going to approach.
Speaker 1: You're gonna know what the winds like in that location
Speaker 1: the majority of the time. So baiting can be very
Speaker 1: very So you know, I have a high level of success.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get into the arguments over whether
Speaker 1: it's ethical or any of that. It is what it is.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that it can be very effective. And
Speaker 1: if you know, I like the idea for young kids
Speaker 1: that are trying to get their first elk maybe you
Speaker 1: know elderly or and I say that not as a
Speaker 1: not to put people down that do it that aren't
Speaker 1: young or elderly, but it's an effective way. Like in
Speaker 1: the end, I always try to remember we're all out
Speaker 1: here for different reasons. I love eating milk still, right.
Speaker 1: We talk about all of this and we we go
Speaker 1: do it in the mountains and whatever. But in the end,
Speaker 1: it's like I just want to freezeer full of elk.
Speaker 1: And so it's a great strategy if it's legal, and
Speaker 1: people should look into it if available. So those are
Speaker 1: we didn't spend a whole lot of time, but those
Speaker 1: are things and ideas. There's kind of a pros and
Speaker 1: cons in the heading into betting zone. There's pros and
Speaker 1: cons the wallows, ambushing spot in stock tree stand hunting, baiting.
Speaker 1: But those are some things you always need to think about.
Speaker 1: And they're never below me or above me. Why I'm
Speaker 1: out there elkhunting. I'm always trying to call them in
Speaker 1: but and it's typically triggered by the bigger bulls. If
Speaker 1: bigger bulls aren't susceptible to calling, but I definitely want
Speaker 1: to focus on them or I want a chance to
Speaker 1: kill that bowl. These are the things that we start
Speaker 1: to think about all right, So I gotta go get
Speaker 1: him in his betting zone without making a call. Do
Speaker 1: I is he visiting a wallow that I think is
Speaker 1: over there? Because you know, ONYX map shows a depression
Speaker 1: that seems to have water. Am I gonna have to
Speaker 1: ambush him? You know, all of these things come into play,
Speaker 1: and they're always an option. They're always uh, you know,
Speaker 1: in the toolbox, and we will use them occasionally throughout
Speaker 1: a hunt if we feel that that is our best
Speaker 1: success of killing that bowl. And like I say, it's
Speaker 1: a little cliche, but I'm always every decision we make,
Speaker 1: every bowl we go after, like in the back of
Speaker 1: my mind, it's always like, well, that's got a thirteen
Speaker 1: percent chance of work, and I give this a two
Speaker 1: percent chance of work. And you know, if some of
Speaker 1: these other things, like all right, I honestly think they've
Speaker 1: went through that gap two nights in a row. At
Speaker 1: this time, it's within a five minute span. I'm going
Speaker 1: in there with pretty high confidence that that's going to work.
Speaker 1: So you're always weighing your options. Yeah, there's multiple ways
Speaker 1: to do this and be successful and in the end,
Speaker 1: find something that you love to do, Like if you
Speaker 1: love calling elk, then go do it that way if
Speaker 1: you love to call oak, but it doesn't matter if
Speaker 1: you you know, wait on a wallow, go do that.
Speaker 1: Go out and elk hunt, enjoy the rut in September.
Speaker 1: It's a magical time to be in the woods. And
Speaker 1: go do it however you want to do it, regardless
Speaker 1: of whether you know, I'd rather be a glow bowling
Speaker 1: or you know that's what you want to do. Go
Speaker 1: have fun. We appreciate y' all, thanks for joining in
Speaker 1: listening to this episode of cutting the Distance, and we
Speaker 1: got another. We'll have some more Elk episodes heading your way,
Speaker 1: as September is getting really really close. The copy a
Speaker 1: fam