WEBVTT - Here's Why The Dream of a Borderless Europe Could Be Fading

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. I'm Stephen Carol and

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<v Speaker 1>this is Here's Why, where we take one news story

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<v Speaker 1>and explain it in just a few minutes with our

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<v Speaker 1>experts here at Bloomberg. It's a central part of the

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<v Speaker 1>vision of the European Union being able to cross borders freely.

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<v Speaker 1>Schengen is an example of what it is. You have

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<v Speaker 1>seamless travels around the Shangen Area. The decision that we

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<v Speaker 1>have now finally taken to welcome Romania into our common

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<v Speaker 1>Schengen Area was long.

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<v Speaker 2>Overdue and highly deserved.

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<v Speaker 1>So the passengers welcome to Bulgaria, Welcome to Shengen. This

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<v Speaker 1>is a really historic moment for Bulgaria. The Shanngen Area,

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<v Speaker 1>named after a village in Luxembourg on the border with

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<v Speaker 1>France and Germany, covers twenty five of the EU's twenty

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<v Speaker 1>seven member states, along with four neighboring countries, including Switzerland

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<v Speaker 1>and Norway. It's meant to mean that people can travel

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<v Speaker 1>between countries and the zone without having to show their passport,

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<v Speaker 1>but increased worries over migration and terrorism have seen some countries,

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<v Speaker 1>including Germany and France, reintroduce border checks, so here's why

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<v Speaker 1>the dream of a borderless Europe could be fading our

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<v Speaker 1>Germany correspond to Oliver Krook joins me. Now for more, Oliver,

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of context. First of all, how big a

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<v Speaker 1>deal is the Shngen Agreement.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Steven, I think this is an absolutely foundational idea

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<v Speaker 2>for Europe and something that began really as a sort

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<v Speaker 2>of economic alliance on coal and steel, and that has

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<v Speaker 2>evolved through the decades to be something much much bigger

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<v Speaker 2>and something that is developing more into a political block.

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<v Speaker 2>And at the center of that is the freedom of

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<v Speaker 2>movement of people. I mean, this is something that is

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<v Speaker 2>not just also the EU. This is twenty nine countries

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<v Speaker 2>across Europe and we're talking about an area that covers

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<v Speaker 2>four hundred and fifty million people. There is nothing like

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<v Speaker 2>that in the world. There are, of course countries that

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<v Speaker 2>are bigger than that where people can move freely, but

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<v Speaker 2>there is no agreement like that where you can move

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<v Speaker 2>seamlessly without border checks, without customs, without anything between that

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<v Speaker 2>many countries. And it requires a huge amount of trust

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<v Speaker 2>because we obviously know how sensitive an issue immigration is

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<v Speaker 2>and always has been really through human history. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>a huge sort of achievement. It's continuing to expand. Croatia

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<v Speaker 2>joined last year. And you know, if you live in

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<v Speaker 2>the UK and or listening to this as I did,

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<v Speaker 2>you will also have had the experience of living in

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<v Speaker 2>a place with shangen and then without it. In the contrast,

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<v Speaker 2>it's the kind of thing that you don't really necessarily

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<v Speaker 2>think about until you don't have it anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>So who's taking a hiatus then from shangen and why? So?

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<v Speaker 2>Most recently and most dramatically, I think is Germany, which

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<v Speaker 2>has now put on bird border checks on all nine

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<v Speaker 2>of its land borders. Part of this is due to

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<v Speaker 2>intense political pressures that there are within Germany, where you

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<v Speaker 2>have the far right traditionally saying that they don't want

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<v Speaker 2>any more immigrants and that wanted to cracking down, but

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<v Speaker 2>you're hearing it also from the far left in Germany.

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<v Speaker 2>It has also been put into focus by the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that there have been a few sort of terror attacks.

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<v Speaker 2>One was committed by a sort of asylum seek or

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<v Speaker 2>who was rejected and not deported, and so this was

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<v Speaker 2>obviously a very emotive issue here in Germany. So there's

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<v Speaker 2>an extension to some of the border checks that already

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<v Speaker 2>existed with say poland the Czech Republic, Switzerland, but it's

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<v Speaker 2>also been in stated since the beginning, since twenty fifteen

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<v Speaker 2>with Austria. So today they've expanded it to France and

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<v Speaker 2>Mark into all of the land borders. They say that

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<v Speaker 2>they've turned back thirty thousand people that shouldn't have been

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<v Speaker 2>entering the country. They're trying to get a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of a boost from that. But from the Schultz government

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<v Speaker 2>it was a significant step.

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<v Speaker 1>Is this a new idea that we would see European

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<v Speaker 1>country suspending the rules around free travel and bringing back

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<v Speaker 1>border controls.

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<v Speaker 2>So listen, you get it pretty regularly within Europe. It's

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<v Speaker 2>always temporary measures, and we should say that the German

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<v Speaker 2>ones are also technically temporary. There are only eight countries

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<v Speaker 2>that are using it right now, and it's generally for

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<v Speaker 2>a specific reason. Either there's been too many sort of

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<v Speaker 2>illegal immigrants, or there's some concern over that terrorism threat.

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<v Speaker 2>There's maybe a high profile event, say the Olympics in France.

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<v Speaker 2>They did it for that, but also Norway has done

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<v Speaker 2>it because they're concerned about their critical infrastructure after the

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<v Speaker 2>war with Russia and if there could be any infiltration there,

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<v Speaker 2>so they've imposed them. Of course, there are a great

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<v Speaker 2>many around COVID. But also this puts into sort of

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<v Speaker 2>focus for the Shengen Area also the broader Shang'en border

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<v Speaker 2>and trying to put sort of restrictions there so that

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<v Speaker 2>you don't get as many illegal immigrants there. And this

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<v Speaker 2>is why, by the way, Turkey is such a key

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<v Speaker 2>partner to the EU and to the Shengen Area.

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<v Speaker 1>Do countries get any blowback from the EU when they

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<v Speaker 1>take steps like this.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, listen. Germany has got a lot of blowback overdoing this.

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<v Speaker 2>It got reprimands from Donald Tusk, one of the bordering

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<v Speaker 2>countries in Poland, which has exacerbated some frictions that were

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<v Speaker 2>already there, basically saying that it's entirely unacceptable, calling for

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<v Speaker 2>the sort of highest level of discussions over it. You've

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<v Speaker 2>heard the same thing from Austria. But you've also got

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of praise from some of the eurosceptics, from

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<v Speaker 2>Geared Wilders over in the Netherlands saying this is great,

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<v Speaker 2>we should do this in the Netherlands or bond saying

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<v Speaker 2>welcome to the club. And it's very significant because it's

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<v Speaker 2>a government like Schultz's who is of course a Social

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<v Speaker 2>Democrat and who's all the party and their coalition are

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<v Speaker 2>generally pro migration. For them to take this step really

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<v Speaker 2>gives a lot of ammunition to some of the far

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<v Speaker 2>right parties.

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<v Speaker 1>So, as you've mentioned, currently, these border controls being reintroduced

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<v Speaker 1>are temporary measures. What's the risks that these temporary controls

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<v Speaker 1>become permanent?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, this is the thing is that you can sort

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<v Speaker 2>of continue to roll them over again and again, so

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<v Speaker 2>they wouldn't really become really permanent per se that would

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<v Speaker 2>obviously have a massive impact, but it's the fear of

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<v Speaker 2>sort of effective permanence where you just keep rolling them

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<v Speaker 2>out into sort of perpetuity. Like we mentioned earlier, there's

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<v Speaker 2>been border checks between Austria and Germany since twenty fifteen,

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<v Speaker 2>and the question is will it continue to roll it

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<v Speaker 2>over again and again and again. Germany has done this

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<v Speaker 2>for six months and there's a six month increments. But

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<v Speaker 2>again this is a risk that I could go further.

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<v Speaker 1>What's the big picture here, Alie, it's the Shagan area

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<v Speaker 1>really in danger.

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<v Speaker 2>So what I think is really interesting is that the

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<v Speaker 2>issue of migration, I think is in some ways a

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<v Speaker 2>much bigger conversation and it speaks to really a question

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<v Speaker 2>at the heart of Europe, and Schengen is kind of

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<v Speaker 2>a proxy, i think, for much a bigger philosophical question,

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<v Speaker 2>which is what is Europe? And that is a question

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<v Speaker 2>that has been asked since the beginning of the EU

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<v Speaker 2>over decades. It's taken very many different forms, whether it's

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<v Speaker 2>a focus on debt, the sovereign debt crisis that we

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<v Speaker 2>had back in twenty ten, twenty eleven with Greece, now

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<v Speaker 2>you have it sort of with immigration. And it comes

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<v Speaker 2>at a time when within Europe you have a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of euroskeptical parties that are closer to power than they've

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<v Speaker 2>ever been in the past, whether it's in France, whether

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<v Speaker 2>it's in Germany, within Italy as well, you have this

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<v Speaker 2>sort of the far right there. What is interesting is

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<v Speaker 2>many of these euroskeptical parties, though they are closer to power,

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<v Speaker 2>tend to be somewhat less skeptical. Right le Pen no

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<v Speaker 2>longer really talks about Frexit, even the IFDA in Germany,

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<v Speaker 2>the far right are not really talking about aggressively campaigning

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<v Speaker 2>on leaving the EU. They might do a referendum, but

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<v Speaker 2>these are all questions that were much more active in

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<v Speaker 2>the past. But I think as time goes on and

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<v Speaker 2>Europe is confronted with blocks like China and the United States,

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<v Speaker 2>they're going to have to make a choice of what

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<v Speaker 2>Europe looks like going forward. And I think Drogy put

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<v Speaker 2>it very well when he's kind of dealing with the

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<v Speaker 2>sort of competitive this question in Europe. More broadly, he

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<v Speaker 2>says Europe faces a choice between exit, paralysis or integration,

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<v Speaker 2>and that is really the question that is before Europe today.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks to our Germany correspondent Oliver Krook. For more explanations

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<v Speaker 1>like this from our team of twenty seven hundred journalists

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<v Speaker 1>and analysts around the world, search for Quicktake on the

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg website or Bloomberg Business app. I'm Stephen Carroll. Here's

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<v Speaker 1>why I'll be back next week with more. Thanks for listening.