WEBVTT - Deb | Featured on ABC's Betrayal: Secrets and Lies 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.040 Hi, It's Andrea and we are re releasing some of 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:06.080 our past Weekly episodes and there's a good reason why. 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:09.360 For the last year, I have been working with ABC 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.760 on turning some of your favorite episodes of Betrayal Weekly 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.240 into a TV show. The show is called Betrayal, Secrets 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:19.599 and Lies, and it airs every Sunday at ten pm 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.880 on ABC. This week, we are re releasing Deb proctor story. 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:26.960 You may have heard deb story before, or you may 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:29.920 be new to her story. A little bit about Deb. 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.920 She is an incredible and beautiful spirit. If you talk 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:37.400 to her, you know instantly she is just a genuine 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:41.640 good person and a good friend, a true advocate. And 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:44.440 in my conversations with Deb, sure we talked about her 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.920 experience of betrayal and life, but what I really wanted 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:51.680 to pick her brain about was golf. She's an avid 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:54.800 golfer and you hear a little bit about that in 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:58.000 the episode. I just started learning, so I even sent 0:00:58.040 --> 0:00:59.440 her videos of my swing. 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:01.920 Why does this matter to Betrayal? 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.600 Well, for me, learning something new is to confront and 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:10.360 push through failure. It's pushing through discomfort and self criticism. 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:15.200 It's celebrating the small wins and It's about showing up. 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:18.480 Deb has overcome so much in her life, from addiction 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.280 to betrayal, and today I hope she is on a 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:25.360 golf course somewhere celebrating how far she's come. If you 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.160 have not heard this story, I won't give any more away. 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:33.200 Hearing Deb's story is fascinating, but seeing it unfold is 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:37.119 a whole new experience. So please be sure to check 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.640 out Betrayal, Secrets and Lies on ABC and Hulu to 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:49.760 see deb and where her story takes place. Enjoy the episode. 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:55.920 It was a profound moment. It's the duality of Oh 0:01:56.000 --> 0:02:03.160 my god, what in the world? Who is this cruel? 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:08.560 Who can pull this off? Whose friends pull it off? 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:12.280 How do you fabricate the details like that? 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:29.640 I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.840 the people we trust the most and the deceptions that 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:36.480 change everything. 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:42.320 My real name is Deborah, but typically everyone calls me Dad. 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.160 Deb Proctor grew up on the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma. 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.760 She recently retired from her role as the senior director 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:54.280 of her tribe's domestic violence program, and before that, she 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:56.880 spent her entire career as a nurse. 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:01.480 After being an rin well now it's been forty eight 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:03.400 and a half years. 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:06.120 Like a lot of people in the medical profession, she 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:08.880 developed a keen sense for when someone is lying. 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:12.679 When you mention bullshit detectors, I can spot them a 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:14.720 football field away or further. 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:19.520 Deb is Cherokee and proud of her Native American heritage. 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:23.919 My grandmother who lived until she was ninety nine years old. 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:29.320 She is actually our family's original in rolly, which means 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:31.080 she is on the Dows Roll. 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.480 The DAWs Roll was a list compiled by the US 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:38.000 government in the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds. 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.520 It named about one hundred thousand Native Americans who were 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:42.760 allotted land. 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:47.080 Which was pretty unusual to have an original roley in 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:47.680 your life. 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.920 For most of it growing up, Deb's grandmother was a 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.320 constant presence and a source of inspiration. 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:58.360 I think I thought a lot of my propter will 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:03.320 and strength and courage from her. She was born before 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:08.120 statehood and she was still stacking her own wood when 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:12.240 she was in her early nineties. She was a survivor 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:18.200 of many many situations in her life. 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:22.520 Her grandmother experienced a lot of violence firsthand. Deb's father 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:26.400 did too. As a child his own father was murdered 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:27.200 in front of him. 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:33.599 Those life events are what gives the background and the 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:39.400 experience to what we would call intergenerational trauma or historical trauma. 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:44.200 She saw the impact of that on her family. There 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:48.000 was alcoholism and emotional turmoil, and when she was young, 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:49.960 Deb struggled to process it. 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:56.039 When you're a very sensitive nature child, your little heart's 0:04:56.080 --> 0:05:01.880 open and you're intuitive, you pick up that energy. 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:06.240 From a young age. She experienced violence and abuse herself. 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:12.479 The violence I experienced, I truly am my heart know 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:17.880 that it's as a result of those that could not heal. 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:23.440 Deb believes her father's unresolved trauma led him to become 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:24.480 a civil servant. 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.960 He taught me a lot about community service. He would 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:32.000 be in his vehicle driving through the rural areas seeing 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:36.520 what the natives needed, and ultimately he was a councilman 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:40.560 for their tribe, served many many years. 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:45.080 Deb grew up quickly in more ways than one. In fact, 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:49.200 on her sixteenth birthday, her high school boyfriend surprised her. 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.560 They had a birthday party for me and he asked 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:55.880 me to marry him and I accepted. That was the 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:57.840 day I turned sixteen. 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:02.039 But her engagement didn't just strapped her from prioritizing education. 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:05.799 Her father insisted that she earn an advanced degree. 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:08.640 He was the one in the family who said you 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:13.919 must have an education, and so at age seventeen, I 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:18.000 did start college and I finished at nineteen with my 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.719 first RN degree. That was as a result to my 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:22.960 dad pushing me. 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:26.400 Before she even had a chance to know herself, she 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:28.800 was married and working as a full time nurse. 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:32.160 I mean, I'm running the hospital as a baby nurse. 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:37.760 I'd probably turn twenty maybe twenty one by then. It 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:41.479 was tough, but I spent a good part of my 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:44.960 energy on trying to achieve perfection. 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.640 Deb and her husband shared a very similar upbringing. 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:54.000 He came from a violent background, very similar to mine, 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.599 and so we just went together like peanut, butter and jelly. 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:01.800 They had two sons together, but a few years into marriage, 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.440 her husband's behavior became a problem. 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:12.040 He struggled with drugs and drinking, and he had violent tendencies. 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:14.120 It was really hard. 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.840 She eventually left her husband and resolved to end the 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:21.240 cycle of violence to make a safe and stable environment 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:23.160 for her and her two sons. 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:27.000 And so for many years I remained single, and just 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:30.880 spent time with myself and the boys. And so for 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:35.760 the next few years after we divorced, I sought to understand. 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:42.160 I bought books, I joined book club, anything on self understanding. 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.960 She started going to therapy and joined support groups for 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:49.840 families impacted by alcoholism. She was creating a better life 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:54.080 for herself and for her sons. When her sons became teenagers, 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.480 she looked around and realized, I did. 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:01.680 Want to partner in live. I know someone to enjoy life, 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.320 that I meant something too, that I'm mad or too. 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.480 She was forty one and felt ready to explore a 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.600 new partnership, so she made an online dating profile. This 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:15.000 was nineteen ninety seven, back when online dating was a 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:16.320 novel concept. 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.600 Yeah this egg bumble this a yeah, this is none 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:20.480 of that stuff. 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:25.720 One man piqued her interest. His name was Jeff Walton. 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:32.520 His profile was just romantic. It was something like I'm 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.720 looking for my gwinevere. 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.480 Jeff said he wanted to treat his next partner like 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:41.760 a queen. Deb wrote him an email. He lived a 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:45.800 couple states away in Kentucky, but their conversation flowed easily, 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:49.760 and Deb quickly discovered they shared the same interests. They 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:53.080 both loved golf, and Jeff wanted to hear more about 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:54.360 Deb's Cherokee culture. 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:59.040 You know, the music, a spiritual journey. He loved the 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:04.440 Native America spiritual practices. And when I talked to him, 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:07.079 I was just smitten with him. 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:10.160 She looked forward to his phone calls and emails. 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:14.439 I saved all of that. I printed everything. I had 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:19.240 a huge three inch purple binder with all of our exchanges. 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:22.360 As they got closer, she got to know more about 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:23.200 his backstory. 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:29.720 He was born in Alaska and moved to Canada. 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:33.000 He was a dual citizen of Canada and the United States, 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:37.320 and he had a complicated relationship with his biological family. 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:44.200 He didn't know his real dad. His stepdad was very violent, 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:49.360 and he would share stories like, you know, his stepdad 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:52.920 murdered the family poodle in front of his sister and 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:56.640 his mom and him, and I mean it was horrible stories. 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:00.319 Deb had seen her share of violence as well well. 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.560 She understood what it was like, so they bonded over 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:07.920 their difficult childhoods. Jeff's family was still in Canada, but 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.920 they'd fallen out of touch. He moved to New Orleans 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.960 as a young man, and along the way he picked 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:14.640 up the accent. 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:17.600 So when he would talk to me on the phone, 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:22.680 he would have that you know dialect. He would say hello, 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.360 Darlin and a dory. Yeah, I can't do it. But 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:28.280 it was definitely New Orleans. 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:32.600 Jeff's ex wife and adult son still lived in New Orleans, 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.120 but after his divorce, he'd taken a job in Kentucky. 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:40.760 He was a project manager for a big construction company 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:44.560 that you know, worked on Toyota plants, that worked on 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:48.120 the University of Kentucky, that had done all this great work. 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.160 Jeff was the kind of person who'd lived a million 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:51.880 lives in one. 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:57.120 He just fascinated me. He was a pilot and played 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:03.880 football for Woody Hayes, oh State, and was phenomenal. 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.000 Step could really see herself with this guy. 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:11.680 We're gonna embark upon this journey together. We love music, 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:16.120 we love golf, We're both seekers. I just was so 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.360 excited about meeting this man. 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.760 After a year of talking, they decided to finally meet 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:26.840 each other in person. Jeff flew to Oklahoma. When he 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:30.080 arrived at the airport, she was waiting for him with 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:30.640 a gift. 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:36.240 I'd had a traditional here a medicine man gone to 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:40.760 him and asked him to be a feather. There was 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.920 a song by Robbie Robertson and the name of it 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.400 was gold and Feather, Give my love a golden feather, 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.320 and if you would look it up, it's so that 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:54.240 I never lose my way home. And I thought, what 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:58.120 a beautiful expression of love for this new man in 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:02.520 my life to give him a feather, because he loves 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:09.120 that Native American song so much. So I met him 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.800 at the plane with that and I said, here's so 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:13.800 you can always find your way home. 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.480 And Jeff had come with the surprise of his own. 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:20.280 As soon as he got off the plane and he 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:24.959 was walking toward me, it seemed like his voice was shaking, 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:29.439 and he said, you will marry me, won't you. You're 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.160 gonna marry me right. You are marrying me right. 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:35.360 That was Jeff's marriage proposal. 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:40.360 And I was like, well, of course, of course, yes. 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:44.560 The weekend could not have gone better. Jeff wanted to 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:46.840 get to know her world, you know. 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:51.000 I drove around, showed ing the rural area, my history, 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:55.199 some of the culture where I were. We went out 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:57.960 to my golf course. I introduced him to a lot 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:02.440 of my friends met the family. It was just a 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:06.960 really good weekend. I just loved him. Jeff loved him. 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.240 They started making arrangements for him to move to Oklahoma. 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:15.600 And I'm a planner and an organizer in every aspect 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:18.400 in my life. So shoot, the next thing, you know, 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.800 I'm getting busy. I'm helping him find jobs. He's getting 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.560 his resumeating. Of course, we're still using facts as then, 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:28.680 and he would send things and I would write cover 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.200 letters for him to help him get relocated. 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:35.840 A few months later, Jeff moved in. They spent the 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:39.199 next year planning a small family wedding in the Ozarks. 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:44.160 We married on April twenty third, two thousand. 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:47.559 It was the anniversary of the day they met in person. 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.720 Deb's youngest son walked her down the aisle, and Jeff's son, 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:54.800 Little Jeff, flew in to support his dad. It was 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:56.839 a true merging of their lives. 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.920 I really thought it was meant to be. 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.839 They planned their first trip together as newlyweds, a golf 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:10.240 trip with Deb's group of friends. Deb had been golfing 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:13.400 for her entire life. Every year she and her friends 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:16.680 traveled the country to play. Jeff was eager to join. 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.520 He'd been an avid golfer when he was younger, but 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:21.440 he hadn't played in years. 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.600 So he lost these golf clubs. Well, heck, you know, 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.640 I gotta go buying golf clubs, you know, because he's 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:28.520 got to have golf clubs if for a month play 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.400 So then he needed lessons because he just hadn't got 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:35.080 to play in a while. He said, needed to brush up. 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.920 But on their first golf trip with her friends. 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.760 Once we got all scores in and everything, the winner 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:47.080 was him, and I was like, well, golly, eat, great job. 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:50.800 But Deb's friends were standoffish with Jeff about his win, 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:53.840 and one of her friends was quick to point out. 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:59.840 A real golfer is not going to leave their clubs behind. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:00.840 It makes sense. 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.560 Her friends had never acted like this before. She didn't 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:08.960 know what happened, and neither did Jeff. But after that, 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.720 they weren't invited on any more golf trips. 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:15.000 I felt like everybody was mistreating him. 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.640 A year into their marriage, Jeff was still struggling to 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:22.040 find the right job in Oklahoma. One day when Deb 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.160 was helping him with an application. 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:28.760 Well, I sound an old resume, and on this particular 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.560 resume it says Vietnam veteran. 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:36.760 I was like, my god, he'd never told her he 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.920 was a veteran. But Deb had a lot of experience 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:43.560 with the VA. While getting her advanced nursing degree, she 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.800 worked on a program at the VA that specifically studied 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:48.680 Vietnam veterans with PTSD. 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:54.840 I'm like, you never told me you were a veteran. 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.960 You never told me you were in the Vietnam War. 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:05.320 That is a significant event in life. Was flabbergasted it 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:09.680 had never come up, and he said, well, I don't 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.760 like to talk about it. Deb, I use it on 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:16.680 my resumes because you know that ought to tell you something. 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:19.800 I was like, but she should have told me. I 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:21.400 should never found out here. 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.440 Dev felt like he needed to talk about it, even 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.840 if he didn't want to. She'd had first hand experience 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.040 with veterans and PTSD. 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:35.160 And so over the course of time, he began to 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:41.240 tell me what happened. It was an elaborate story, intricate details. 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:44.360 As an eighteen year old, he'd been in the Special 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:48.360 Forces in Vietnam. One night, he caught his senior officers 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:52.640 using drugs. Fearing he would turn them in, the officers 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.760 allowed Jeff to be captured. He was held as a 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:59.080 prisoner of war and for months he was. 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.480 Tortured and they bust at his feet with the butt 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:06.040 of a gun so that he couldn't walk. But he 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:10.199 got out. He escaped and he made it back to 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:16.720 the US forces by following the path of a stream, 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:22.200 and it was so difficult because his feet were busted up. 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:24.760 He was taken to a veteran's hospital. 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.320 He had to have metal put in his feet because 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:32.560 they were broken and if we flew anywhere, it would 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.200 trigger the metal alarms as you go in. 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:42.840 He recovered physically and was discharged, but psychologically he was scarred. 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:47.119 The trauma was so bad. He said, it was just 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:50.480 so awful that sometimes he would just get in the 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.359 closet and he would just hide. 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:57.240 Deb was worried about his mental health, especially because his 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:00.000 support system was then he was in a new place 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:04.480 and wasn't in touch with his biological family, so Deb 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:08.360 was happy when his siblings reached out to reconnect. They 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:10.960 invited him back to Canada. 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:15.080 His siblings had said that his mother's eightieth birthday party 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:18.040 was coming up and they wanted him to come, and 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:19.800 he talked to him about it, and I said, well, 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.440 we've got to I've never met any of your family, 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:23.920 and absolutely. 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.400 A few months later, they flew to Alberta to meet 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:32.200 his family. They hadn't seen Jeff in decades. They were 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:35.840 elated to welcome him home and Deb never thought you'd 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.000 get the chance to meet his siblings. 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:41.760 I finally got to meet his family. I was just 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:45.040 so excited to be there and to meet them. And 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.920 you know, at one of the brother's houses, we might 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.600 play games and just chat and get to annoy each other. 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:54.360 Deb fit right in. 0:18:55.160 --> 0:19:01.720 We didn't have any serious, meaningful conversations about lie for anything. 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:07.000 We were just doing a friendly, cordial meet the family thing. 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:11.199 He was up be, everyone was up b. It was 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:12.000 a good trip. 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.600 It was a good trip. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.480 Deb didn't know it at the time, but everyone there 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:26.240 was in on a secret, everyone except for her Her husband. 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:31.200 Jeff wasn't who he said he was. In fact, everyone 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:34.320 and his family knew Jeff by a different name. 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:38.080 Come to find out, he met his siblings at the 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:41.639 door and told him I'm going by Jeff Wall now. 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:43.159 I'll tell you later. 0:19:57.240 --> 0:19:59.840 Deb and her husband went to Canada to reconnect with 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:03.800 as estranged family, and to her surprise, the trip was 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:07.480 a success. Meeting his family brought the two of them closer. 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.800 But one day after they returned from their trip, Jeff 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:13.480 collapsed on the golf course. 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:17.200 And a friend of ours founding setting up against a 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:22.280 tree and wanted him to let him take him into 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.399 the hospital, and he said, no, just take me to 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:28.840 my car, and so he did that. He got in 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:30.280 his car and he drove home. 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:33.119 Deb met him at their house and forced him to 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:36.760 go to the hospital. Jeff had suffered a major heart attack. 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:40.720 It would require ongoing care, but Jeff still had it 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:44.200 nailed down a steady job, so the couple needed help 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:47.680 covering his medical expenses. Deb had worked at the VA 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:51.200 years ago and insisted it was their best resource. 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:57.120 And he absolutely said, I will not go. I don't 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:02.360 trust the government. I'm not going. And I said, well, 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.800 that's bullshit. We're going broke. We've got to get your 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:06.359 health care. 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.840 That's when Jeff explained the VA what didn't take him. 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:13.919 He said, they don't even have a list of me 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:19.360 because I was dishonorably discharged because I reported the officers. 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:22.879 They won't even have me on the well. Anything to 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:25.720 do with VA, and I said, that's bullshit. You were 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:31.760 a soldier, you were captured, and he said, I won't go. 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:36.399 He got up and he never talked about it again. 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:41.600 In that moment, I was like, that is weird. 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:50.240 His explanation just didn't add up. Deb even considered hiring 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:52.320 someone to look into Jeff's background. 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:55.640 I wonder if I need to get a private investigator 0:21:55.760 --> 0:22:00.960 or something. And I logged on to the internet and 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:03.320 then I was like, God, I don't have any money 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:05.040 to get a private detective. 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:09.000 She didn't have the money or the time to hire 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:12.919 a PI. Shortly after Jeff's heart attack, he had a stroke. 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:17.720 Then his memory began to falter all the while he 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:21.600 was refusing to go to the VA. It financially strained 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:24.359 the family, and Deb was at a loss. 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:28.160 I had begun to say, I do not know what 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:30.080 is wrong with my life. How am I going to 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:34.240 get this guy health care? He's got to have healthcare. 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:38.040 Deb was his primary caretaker on top of her full 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:41.520 time nursing job. It was overwhelming. 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:46.359 I begin to drink, and then I drank heavily, and 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:48.119 then it was uncontrollably. 0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:52.919 Alcohol became an escape from her marriage and its problems. 0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:56.360 When I started drinking, I didn't have to be confused 0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:58.600 anymore because my brain was numb. 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:02.919 Spent so many years taking care of other people that 0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:04.919 she neglected herself. 0:23:05.000 --> 0:23:08.400 As the person that was going to alan on from 0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:14.520 the mid eighties, taken family, taking coworkers, taking friends to 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:19.359 aa NA rehab. I was taken everybody to get help, 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:23.600 but myself had, I guess, reached just a hard stop 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:24.960 where I couldn't deal with it. 0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:30.080 Deb had just turned fifty and had been with Jeff 0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:33.359 for a decade, but life with him was becoming harder 0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:37.000 year after year. At first he failed to bring in 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:41.040 a steady income, Then when he became sick, he refused 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:45.040 resources for affordable health care. Deb turned to booze for 0:23:45.080 --> 0:23:48.480 the stress. But one day, after a long night of drinking, 0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:51.600 she found herself too shaky to put the golf ball 0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:55.120 on the tee. She checked herself into a thirty day rehab. 0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:58.560 Best move I ever made. I'm not going to tell 0:23:58.560 --> 0:24:03.240 you it was pretty. It was ugly, but there's always 0:24:03.240 --> 0:24:06.520 been a driving force within me to rise above. 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:10.760 Being alone. In rehab give her a lot of clarity, 0:24:11.359 --> 0:24:16.680 and with that clarity came questions, specifically about Jeff. When 0:24:16.680 --> 0:24:19.800 she left rehab, she looked at Jeff's behavior with a 0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:20.760 new set of eyes. 0:24:21.240 --> 0:24:28.719 I begin to really observe he was strange. Something was 0:24:29.560 --> 0:24:31.320 not right, not right. 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:35.280 She wasn't ready to leave the marriage. Her focus was 0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:38.119 on her new sobriety, but she did come up with 0:24:38.160 --> 0:24:41.439 a plan to get some answers out of Jeff. She 0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:43.760 gave him an assignment, and. 0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:47.800 I began to say to him, Jeff, every day while 0:24:47.800 --> 0:24:50.160 I'm at work, I want you to work on your 0:24:50.240 --> 0:24:55.280 life story because I don't understand it. You told me 0:24:55.359 --> 0:24:58.080 you were born in Alaska and you moved to Canada, 0:24:58.920 --> 0:25:01.440 but I don't know where you even went to school. 0:25:01.880 --> 0:25:05.120 I don't even know when you moved to Canon. If 0:25:05.160 --> 0:25:07.479 something happens, I'm going to be honest with you. I 0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:09.359 can't even write an obituary. 0:25:11.359 --> 0:25:14.160 She thought it would be a good exercise for both 0:25:14.200 --> 0:25:17.480 of them, and she hoped it could help her understand 0:25:17.720 --> 0:25:19.399