1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know from house stuff Works 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 3 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: Clark and there's Charles w Chuck Bryant and uh, it's 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: just two of us again. Man, not getting any easier. 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: This is just it's getting old this man. We need 6 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: Jerry back. Where are you, Jerry? Where did you go? Selfish? 7 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: Jerry wants to be at home with her baby. Yeah, 8 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: we all went to shopping at kmart and she wandered 9 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: off and we haven't seen her since. We all want 10 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: to be at home with Jerry's baby. Sure, it's a 11 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: cute baby, but we can't be you know, the old 12 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: joke that Jerry could be replaced with a those dipping 13 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: birds just to hit record. We were just kidding. It's 14 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: that's happening. It is true. Maybe not the post production stuff, 15 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: but definitely the recording thing. Clearly takes a finger to say, Okay, 16 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: you guys are rolling. Yeah, we cannot stop griping about 17 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: this time. I know it's just weird. You know, when 18 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: the threesome becomes to do, some things get awkward. I try, 19 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: it becomes a diade, or when it toosome, becomes a 20 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 1: threesome that gets super awkward or I mean really, anytime 21 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: you're moving people in and out of some sort of dynamics, 22 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: it can be weird. The transition be rough. I think 23 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: it's the that's what you put on the T shirt ultimately, alright, 24 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: the transition is rough anytime you're moving people in and 25 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: out of a dynamic. Ready, yes, didn't know me say 26 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: that already. Yeah, we're recording, Chuck, I have something for you, right. 27 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: I am not much of a gossip at all. I 28 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: just don't do it. But do you know who does? 29 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: Jerry a lot, and she's really vicious. I know it's 30 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: just not here right now, but just between the two 31 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: of us, I don't gossip. Jerry does, and you should 32 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: really watch out for. I heard that she gossips. I'm 33 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: not saying that, but I just heard that. I got you. Well, 34 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: I've seen her do it. She's gossip to me because 35 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: she finds me very important and like to confide to me. 36 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:11,119 Speaker 1: But it's just so vicious. So we just gossiped. We did. 37 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: That was play acting, though. The ironic thing was that 38 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: I was gossiping about how I don't gossip. That that 39 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: came through. Huh, everybody gossips. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, 40 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: apparently people gossip way more than they realize. But I 41 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: think you're I think gossip is a normal thing. It 42 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: has such a bad connotation though that people say like, 43 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: I don't gossip, I'm not a gossip but liars. Technically 44 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: not necessarily even liars. I think it also as far 45 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: as like linguists and psychologists are concerned, it comes from 46 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 1: a misunderstanding of what gossip, what constitutes gossip. Like at 47 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: its basic, barest, bare bottomed element, gossip is simply too 48 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: or it can be more but a couple of people 49 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: speaking about a third person's business while the third person 50 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: isn't there. There's another person who's being talked about, boy 51 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: isn't there. It doesn't necessarily mean you're talking about how 52 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: they're just just what allows you parents. They are sure 53 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: spending baby shoe money on gambling rather than gambling in 54 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: order to get more shoes. That's bad parenting right there. 55 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: There's all sorts of stuff you can say, but you 56 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 1: could also say, actually, that guy is a great dude. 57 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: He spends all of his money on nothing but baby shoes. 58 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: That's gossip. It is gossip and it's not necessarily harmful. 59 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: It's in this case you're you're helping someone else's social 60 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: status in other people's eyes. That's still gossip. Yeah, I think, Um, 61 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: what's this tracy of stuff you missed in history class? 62 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: Wrote this one? That is true? She's always thorough and 63 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: uh she included in here something I thought was pretty pertinent, 64 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: gossip the rumor. Yeah. Uh, and there are differences, And um, well, 65 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: I say there's differences. But if you ask professional als 66 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: who study this, and there are weirdos who do that, um, 67 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: they will say sometimes now it's the same thing. Or 68 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: a rumor is just a type of gossip. Uh, here's 69 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: some other distinguishing factors. Gossip is based in fact rumors 70 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: are based in hypotheses. Um. I don't know about that one. 71 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: That makes sense to me because it kind of ties 72 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: in with the last one. Yeah, gossip is a tool 73 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: for maintaining social order, which we're gonna talk about at length. 74 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: Rumor is a tool for explaining things that people do 75 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: not understand. I'm not sure I get that one. Like 76 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: there's garbage raining from the sky, it's the government, that's okay. 77 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: Whereas if you're like Charles is up on the roof again, 78 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: dumping his garbage out on the street. That's gossip technically, 79 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,239 Speaker 1: so yeah, or that's just laying it out there. Yeah 80 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: yeah true. Uh. And then finally, gossip or late something 81 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: people believe has happened, but rumor expresses something people hope 82 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: or fear will happen. So I have my own hypothesis 83 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: of the distinction between rumor and gossip. It's here, Uh, 84 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: rumor is uncurated, gossip rumors any dude walking down the street. 85 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: You can be like, there's garbage following from the guy, 86 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: and it's the government. There's no bond that's formed there, 87 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: there's no requirement of a bond, whereas gossip requires some 88 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: sort of connection or you're forming a connection from the gossip, 89 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Or is just for anybody. 90 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: Gossip is between confidence to an extent. Yeah, And Tracy 91 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: points that out too, And that is why supposedly celebrity 92 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: gossip isn't qualified, doesn't qualify as gossip because it's a 93 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: third party that doesn't know the others in general, unless 94 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: it's you know, Jenniferranison is talking smack about she would 95 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: never do that. Oh really, no, she loves Courtney Cock, 96 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: there's still friends. Huh. Sure, why doesn't she ever have 97 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: around Cougar Town? Then I think she was on cougar Town. Well, 98 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: I stayed corrected, although I have no idea because I've 99 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 1: never seen cougar that. Did you hear about what happened 100 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: after he's on Cougar Town? I heard she washed her 101 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: hair and Evy and her best Shannon Dherty? Yeah, that's right. 102 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: Is that a rumor? Gossip? I don't know. We don't 103 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: know Shannon Dherty. Uh. And then there are some other 104 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: stipulations that researchers point out for a gossip that I 105 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: also take issue with. Some of these, Um, the conversation 106 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: takes place in private, usually the case. Yeah, if not 107 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: like actual private depends on what private mean. You you 108 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: everybody's got the shoulders turn. There's like a creation of 109 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: a private situation. Yeah, I got you. Uh. People are 110 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: saying it as if it were fact, even though it's 111 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: not confirmed. That's definitely true. Yeah, but that's not necessarily 112 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: the case. That's I take issue with that one. It's 113 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: kind of like you were saying, like I heard, but 114 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: I haven't checked it out to take it with a 115 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: grain of salt. But get this. Yeah, man, uh people, Yeah, 116 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: we already talked about that knowing each other. And then 117 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 1: the body language and tone, uh suggests a moral judgment. 118 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: That's a big one, you know, like when people use 119 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: this tone. But again, that's malicious gossip. Typically there's such 120 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: a thing. So this is it should be said, And 121 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: Tracy doesn't really say it in this Um I think 122 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: she was drinking while she was writing this one. That's 123 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: what I heard. Um, she didn't lay out that. There's 124 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: really two types of gossip. One is malicious gossip. That's 125 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: the type of gossip people think about when they hear 126 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: the word gossip. But the other type, the far more 127 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: apparently far more prevalent type, is um regular gossip. Yeah, 128 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: there's some weird, unsubstantiated stat here that only that five 129 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: was malicious. Yeah, among most gossip. Yeah, how in the 130 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: world did they pull that out of their key stirt 131 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: Here's that's a great question. So they are linguists, historians, uh, anthropologists, psychologists, 132 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: people who started studying gossip for a very long time. 133 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: Everyone is aware of gossip, but they're like, it's just noise. 134 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: It's not to be studied, it's to be ignored and 135 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, there's this really great article 136 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: in The Lantic that talked about gossip and how it 137 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: was viewed um and specifically there's this thing in sixteenth 138 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: and seventeenth century England didn't like it called scolds bridle, 139 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: And if you want to see what a scolds bridle is, 140 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: you should check that out online because there are actual 141 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: such things. But they're basically iron masks with like points 142 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: sticking into the The woman who was accused of gossip's 143 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: mouth usually a woman, and she would just have to 144 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: wear that and be publicly humiliated. A lot of them 145 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: had like a leash leading from them. So I guess 146 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,719 Speaker 1: the gossip or the scold is what they used to call, 147 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: could be paraded around town, right, Yeah, and also get 148 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: the feeling that a lot of women were probably made 149 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: to wear those who just talked too much. Yeah, I 150 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: would I have the same the same impression because of 151 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 1: the time period of so that's how people typically viewed gossip. 152 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: It was something to be stamped out. It was something 153 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: that was um very undesirable, and academia treated it the 154 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: same way. In World War two came around, and I 155 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: think the government saw that there was some real harm 156 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: that could be done with gossip, with rumors, and they 157 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:11,199 Speaker 1: wanted to start to understand that. So that kind of 158 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: led to the basis of academia investigating what gossip was, 159 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: what rumors are, and then um over time organizations got 160 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: in on the act because there came this idea that 161 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: if the rumor mill or the gossip mill in your 162 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: office was really going over time, you needed to stamp 163 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: that out. True. They've found the opposite is actually true. Yeah, 164 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: they found it can do a lot in a workplace 165 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: to keep people in line, uh, either by scaring them 166 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: in line or what it What it seems like a 167 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,599 Speaker 1: lot of gossip does in that kind of environment is 168 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: it establishes like the norms and the culture is expected 169 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 1: out of the bosses. That's like one low level that's 170 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: like low level background gossip. If it's peaking and really 171 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: working over time, you from what I understand, you're not 172 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: supposed to attack the gossips. What you're supposed to do 173 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: is be more transparent at the top and then people 174 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: don't have reason to gossip. So it's not it doesn't 175 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: mean that you have a lot of gossips at your place. 176 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: That's a normal human situation. As we'll see, it means 177 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: that your managers and the people who are running the 178 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: show aren't being open enough for the the hoi polois tastes, right, 179 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: see what I mean. Good point, and that was a 180 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: big thing that came out of studying it. But to 181 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 1: answer your question I'm about to finish, they study it 182 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: by eavesdropping on like people who are talking in cafeterias. 183 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: That's about the only way you can yeah, because it's 184 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: so spontaneous and it's largely unconscious. Yeah, unless it's you know, 185 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: just some dumb pole where you're asking people about gossip 186 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: and self reporting poles like that, I don't put a 187 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 1: lot of stuck in you know. Well, actually they're funny 188 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 1: to look at. There's one that found that about we 189 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 1: spend about three quarters of our time gossiping apparently. Yeah, 190 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: and that's in the broadest sense of the definition, right, 191 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: not necessarily malicious, because about five percent of that supposedly lishes. 192 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: But people self report gossiping about they say they spend 193 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: about thirty percent of their time. So rather than people 194 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: are like, oh, only gossip yea. And all that comes 195 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: from eavesdropping on people and then asking them afterwards whether 196 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: they gossip. Tracy points out rightfully so that most world 197 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: religions have always said gossip is a bad thing, including 198 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: the Christian Bible. Uh in Leviticus, thou shalt not go 199 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: up and down as a talebearer among the people. Oh, 200 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: that was good. By the way, I wanna echo the 201 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: kudos that have wrung throughout social media applauding your scary 202 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: spider growing redneck man in the Halloween episode. It was 203 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: clear as a slack jowled yokel sort of. And my 204 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: friend Big John, well, it was good. It was a matchup. 205 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: I appreciate that it was Big John in New York. No, 206 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: he's in he's in Atlanta. Okay. Um. I actually thought 207 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,079 Speaker 1: your your vomit take was the funniest part of the 208 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: whole thing, the gag, thank you, thank you. Uh. Jewish 209 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: tour always also says so in Buddhism. We've talked about 210 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: Buddhism before the eight full Path to Enlightenment. No place 211 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: where gossip there, my friend, no way, not if you 212 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:18,719 Speaker 1: want to become one with the universe, no gossiping. And 213 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: like like I said earlier too, it's not just the 214 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: religious types that are against it. People and remember the 215 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: business world kind of started looking in on this, and 216 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: they're like, don't gossip if you want to be a 217 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: good person, don't gossip and spreading U unless you're spreading 218 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: a gossip rumor that we want you to spread. Right, 219 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: that's the official company line. Uh. And then there's this dude, 220 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: Robin Dunbar, who wrote a book called Grooming, Gossip and 221 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: the Evolution of Language, And I looked into this guy. 222 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: He he really goes for it. He says that gossip 223 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: is the whole reason that we have language, and it 224 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: evolved from primates grooming each other and that took so 225 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: much time to groom one another and it wasn't efficient. 226 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: That language was created in order to not have to 227 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: groom one another, and so you would vocal groom, that's 228 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: what he called it. So this is kind of a 229 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 1: big deal. Let's let's take a break for a second 230 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: because we're pretty deep into this, and we'll talk about 231 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: Dunbar and his mad ideas after this, all right, Dunbar, 232 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: Dunbar can't put them off any longer. Robin Dunbar, Yeah, 233 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: that's a pretty out there theory. I think like Dunbar 234 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: is saying we developed language so we could gossip in 235 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: in essence, Yeah, the tide of grooming is where he 236 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: loses me a bit and vocal grooming. I'm just he 237 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,959 Speaker 1: says basically, it was a more efficient way to uh 238 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: service your allies rather than grooming one another. Right, So, 239 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 1: I think what he's saying is that when you win 240 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: a primate grooms another primate, it's an act of um kindness. 241 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: It's saying, like, I'm doing something nice for you. It 242 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: gives the other primate who's being groomed an opportunity to 243 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: reciprocate and form an even stronger bond. Right, scratch my back. 244 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: But it takes a little while to do all this 245 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: stuff because you're actually going through the act of grooming, 246 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: whereas if you just gossip about somebody, um, you can 247 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: do a lot of that same stuff, but just by talking. Yeah, 248 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: but I don't get what it has to do with 249 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: picking knits out of fur. It's it's I think what 250 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: he's saying is it's it developed out of that. It 251 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: serves a lot of the same purposes. Plus also, it's 252 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: entirely possible that gossip began around the time or I 253 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: guess during grooming sessions think about it if you're just 254 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: sitting there picking knits out of somebody, or you're just 255 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: gonna sit there silently not at start chatting. How how 256 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: easy is it going to be to lead to talk talk? 257 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: And what he did after he ate that for minute? Apple, Sure, 258 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: it's like the barbershop or the beauty shop, right kind of. Um. 259 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: There are some different roles though that it does play 260 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: in social interactions where I guess the grooming thing comes 261 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: into play. UM. Entertaining one another, like you said, uh, 262 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: influence on one another, that's a big one. UM, Exchanging 263 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: information that's important, uh, And one of the biggest ones 264 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: is learning from mistakes that UH linguists point out is 265 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: a really big part of gossip or a part of 266 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: positive gossip, and that there's oftentimes a moral lesson attached 267 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: to it. Yeah, like you don't want this to happen 268 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: to you, right, No, exactly, and it kind of um 269 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: in that respect, it gets across somebody who's perhaps a 270 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: little more established in a group, maybe an older person 271 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: like ingratiate yourself, right, But but it's also saying like 272 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: I'm a part of this group. You're a little newer 273 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: than I am. Let me tell you the story about 274 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: what this guy did when he transgressed against the group 275 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: and bad things befell him. Like you said, don't let 276 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: this happen to you. Don't transgress the group's boundaries, right, 277 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: And that's important if you get if you're like a 278 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: new hire, they say, a lot of gossip flies. Uh, 279 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: Like I remember the movie Big Remember when Tom Hanks 280 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: gets hired, Like the very first thing that happens is 281 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: John Lovitts comes over and starts talking about all the 282 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: gossip of everyone in the office. I don't remember that part. 283 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he talks about like this lady is easy 284 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: and this guy's a jerk, and it's just pretty common. 285 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: I think when you get a new job, there's always 286 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: someone in there that's like And what they're doing, though, 287 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: is they're not just it's not purely they're trying to 288 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: help themselves. It's socialization. It's in dr nature. Oh that's 289 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: not what I thought you were gonna say. No, Like, 290 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: I think they're trying to be like, well, here's a 291 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: new ally I can get, right, Yeah, so let me 292 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: let me you know. I mean, it's it's there. It's reciprocal, 293 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: I guess to a certain degree. Yeah, both people are 294 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: getting something out of it. But I mean you make 295 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: a good point. The person who is doing the gossiping, 296 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: especially in that situation, is setting themselves up as a 297 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: like a wise older savior advisor. If you want some information, 298 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: Well you'll find though over the years is that usually 299 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: the first person who comes up and starts gossiping to 300 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: you about how the office works is usually also the 301 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: most disliked. You know. That's why they cast John Lovett. 302 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: He's great for that. That or the dude with the 303 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: forehead the size of a dinner plate who was in 304 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: all the eighties movies as that character? Was he the 305 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 1: jerkin big I don't know. Is the dad from Home Alone? No? No, no, 306 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: this is um the coked up sidekick from the eighties 307 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,199 Speaker 1: with the huge forehead. He was in What About You? 308 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: He was the sidekicking mad about you. Oh that guy? 309 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah yeah, same same function. Yeah he's uh 310 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: he's in that show now ah with Joey Tribbiani. It's 311 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: called Joey, Melissa and Joey. No, he's on the Yeah, yeah, 312 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: he's on episodes took great. Does he play himself? Uh? Now? 313 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: He plays a jerk? Um uh TV executive perfect. He's exactly. 314 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: I love that guy that he's such a good actor. No, 315 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. But he always plays that part. 316 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: He's definitely he's got that part down. You're right, he's 317 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: not a romantic lead. Um. A lot of times. The 318 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 1: feeling of superiority is another big part of gossip, like 319 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: I would never do this, um. And Tracy also points 320 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: out the old schaden freude, which is one of my 321 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 1: favorite words. It's a good word and one of my 322 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: least favorite things. That's you must be very ambivalent about 323 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: that word. What do you mean? Well, if you love 324 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: it but you also hate what it means, well, let's 325 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 1: got to tear you up inside. Well, I just don't 326 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: like someone delighting in someone else's misfortune unless it's a 327 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: bad person. Yeah. Could the Jimmy john S guy like 328 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: shot his toe off on a big game hunt, Well, 329 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 1: oh yeah, he's a big game hunter. I would probably 330 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: think that was kind of you know, I think that's 331 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: acceptable shot in Florida, especially if it was just a 332 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: relatively minor injury. You know. Yeah, you say shaden shod 333 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: and frauda, That's how I say it. So, Chuck, kind 334 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: of what a couple of like we've were kind of 335 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: dancing back and forth across this line, like going to 336 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: the office setting up the first day and having somebody 337 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: come over and tell you how the things work. Yes, 338 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 1: there might be a little bit of malicious gossip in there, 339 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 1: but for the most part, that's not bad gossip. That's 340 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: neutral gossip, right, But putting someone else down or talking 341 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: about how how much superior you are by not you 342 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: would never do what they did, that's definitely the malicious variety. 343 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: And there's an idea that if gossip evolved, like um, 344 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 1: Robin Leech. Yeah, like, like Robin Leach says in his 345 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 1: post Rich and Famous Career he became an anthropologist, you know, 346 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:14,400 Speaker 1: Um Robin Leach says that if if language evolved as 347 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,719 Speaker 1: a means of gossiping, the guy takes it further by saying, Um, 348 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: the reason gossip of all, the reason we needed that 349 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: in the first place was because we grew out of 350 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,479 Speaker 1: these little hunter gatherer bands of like fifteen people, and 351 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: as our societies grew larger and larger, and we weren't 352 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: as able to be able to keep tabs personally on 353 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: others in this group that's getting bigger and bigger, so 354 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: you don't know who to trust. You know, if I'm 355 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: gonna leave my crops to somebody while I go on 356 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: a walk about or something, I need to make sure 357 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: that all my crops are gonna be there when I 358 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: get back, you know, But I don't really know this guy. 359 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: Gossiping serves that function. It's it's like a stand in 360 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: for being able to keep tabs on everybody else in 361 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 1: the society, because when you gossip with somebody, you're sharing 362 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: a trust, a bond that they're not going to use 363 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: that information against you that you shared with them, and um, 364 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 1: so there's a there's a definite element of trust to it. 365 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: And when when people gossip in a larger society, they're 366 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: they're trusting that the person is either vouching for the 367 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 1: person or they're being warned against trusting that third party. Right, 368 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: So it works in that same way that it's like 369 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,360 Speaker 1: a it's a means of um keeping tabs on everybody 370 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: at the same time. On the other hand, or at 371 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: the same time, it's also um a means of social 372 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: control because if you know people are gossiping about everybody else, 373 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: then surely they're gonna gossip about you too, which means 374 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: you better just be an upstanding, upright person. Yeah, there 375 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 1: was this uh this what's his first name, Fineberg, let's 376 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: just say Dr Fineberg. Dr Fineberg at Toronto in Toronto, 377 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: University of Toronto. He's done some studies and he did 378 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 1: find in fact that basically they did these studies where 379 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: they were um, were you were allowed to exclude non 380 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: cooperators in like a group work setting. And they found 381 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: that you you set them out for one game, like 382 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: you've not been playing nicely, so you go sit over 383 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: there in the corner, and when they came back, they 384 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: were more likely to behave in other rounds. And uh, 385 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: if they knew that their behavior was gossiped about people, 386 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: sort of like what you're talking about with the staring, 387 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: Like if you knew someone was watching you, you would 388 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,479 Speaker 1: return the grocery cart. If you know, if you know 389 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: someone's gossiping about you, you're gonna tow that line and 390 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: get your act together exactly. It's again it's a means 391 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: of social control. You know. Who were really really really 392 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: good at gossiping. Uh, the Puritans in colonial America, they 393 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,679 Speaker 1: were huge, like their whole society operated on gossip and 394 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: the encouragement of gossip. As a matter of fact, I 395 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: think women were called gossips um and not necessarily negatively. 396 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: It's just like there was a really good means of 397 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: social control. Not only was God watching you, your neighbors 398 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,479 Speaker 1: were too, and they would go tell the preacher, who 399 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: would put a scolds bridle on you, and maybe them 400 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: too for telling and toss you in the lake. Yeah. 401 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: And if you if you drowned, you weren't a witch. Right, 402 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: all right, Well, let's take another break and we'll talk 403 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: a little bit more about some studies and some other 404 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: theories about the origin of gossip. Uh So, fine Berg, 405 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: we talked about Dr Tinberg. Okay, I hope he or 406 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: she is a doctor, um, but if not, we just 407 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: gave him an honorary honorary doctor from stuff. You should 408 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: know you people are going to request those now, which 409 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: is great, but we can sell them. Uh So. One 410 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: thing that he found is that gossip can also relieve you, 411 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: um physiologically, Like if you know that you're allowed to gossip, 412 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: you won't get as upset about unfair things then if 413 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: you had to hold it all in or it's like 414 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: a way of setting injustice, right, Yeah, like it's street 415 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: justice without like a sawtout shotgun, as Charles Bronson would 416 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: dispense it. Right, Uh yeah, good point. Man. Have you 417 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: gone back and seen Death Wish recently? It is a 418 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 1: rough movie? Yeah, of course, the same with Death Wish too. 419 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: What did you think it was? I mean I remember 420 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: seeing movies when I was a kid and just being like, 421 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: you know, as a growing up, you're like, this was nothing. 422 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: That was something. Those movies were very violent and very disturbing. 423 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: You see, Jos Bunsen did not ask questions. No, he 424 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 1: just shot everybody. He did. Man, that was crazy. Why 425 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: why did you go back and rewatch Death Wish? You 426 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: gotta watch something? Good point? It was on. That's why 427 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: got I was like, I haven't seen Death Wishing forever. 428 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: When's the last time you saw it? It's been a while. 429 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: It's disturbing, especially as an adult. You know what movie 430 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: I love? What Charles Bronson movie I love? Is a Mechanic? Well, 431 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: that one's good too. Um. What's it called Tin Past Midnight? 432 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: Is that right? I think that's on Netflix too. Maybe 433 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 1: there was there was some creepy serial killer, like psycho 434 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: sexual killer that he was. He was He's always hunting 435 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: some money. He was the Liam Neeson of his day. 436 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: That was like supposedly a very very underrated horror thriller, 437 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: horror slasher thriller. I'm with you all the way. I 438 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: haven't seen it's good though, it's good. I'll check it out. 439 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: Very creepy and and I learned, well it's not for 440 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: kids because I learned some things in that movie. Oh yeah, yeah. 441 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: It's one of those that I can specifically remember. It's like, oh, well, 442 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: that's how I know what this is. Charles Bronson will 443 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: teach you all about life, whether you want to learn 444 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: it or not. I think it was ten past midnight. Um, 445 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: all right, sorry about that sidetrack. Where were we? Uh? 446 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: We were talking about the origins of gossip. Oh yeah, 447 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 1: there's some Did you read the other article I sent um? 448 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: I think it was from the Guardian. I can't remember where. 449 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: One of the the theories is that was that was 450 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: a BBC that hunting and gathering and foraging was a 451 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: big reason gossiping came about, because you had to know, 452 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: you had to talk about each other, like you know, 453 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: tuk tuk. You know, it's not very good at the hunting. 454 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 1: But he's quite the gatherer, so it helps them organize 455 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: in the most efficient way to get things done, because 456 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: how is she gonna know unless you tell somebody what's 457 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,479 Speaker 1: going on. So that makes sense, No, it is. And again, 458 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: if this person, if the if the band is large 459 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: enough for the civilization is large enough that the person 460 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 1: can't keep an eye on tuk tuk all the time, 461 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: that's how that person will gain understanding of tuk tuk's abilities. 462 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: We're tuk talking keeping tabs on poor tuktok uh. And 463 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,719 Speaker 1: then the other cool thing I thought was the uh 464 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: when we finally learned to harness fire. Uh. This hypothesis 465 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: is during the day we were out, you know, trying 466 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: to stay alive and doing our thing, finding building shelters, 467 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: hunting for food, finding water, and at night when we 468 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: finally got fire, well before fire, you would just go 469 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: to sleep and rest because it was dark and it's 470 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: weird to sit around the dark. But once they had fire, 471 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 1: people literally from the very beginning started sitting around and 472 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: talking about their day and kind of gossiping about what happened. 473 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: And it's amazing. It's hard to blame anybody if you 474 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: think about it, Like, when's the last time you had 475 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: a legitimately interesting conversation about fantastical stuff. They're there are 476 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: few and far between. For the most part. People are 477 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 1: talking about their day. They're talking about people they work with, 478 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: talking about some dude that cut them off in traffic. 479 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: They're talking about their immediate experience. So of course you're 480 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: gonna gossip. It's this if if the definition of gossip 481 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: is talking about people who aren't there every year, right, 482 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 1: everyone gossips, you're going to It's a completely natural thing. 483 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: And I'm totally unsurprised by the idea that it started 484 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 1: out at the first campfire and it still happens today. 485 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 1: Apparently there are researchers who studied um bushmen in the 486 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: Kalahari Desert in Botswana, and they say that the language 487 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: and the stories and the things they say during the 488 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: day are completely different than the things they say at 489 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 1: night and around the campfire. And they say, there's really 490 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: no reason to think this hasn't always been the case. 491 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: That's neat. Um. So you said it still goes on 492 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: to day, And we were talking about modern studies of gossiping, right, Um. 493 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: One of the there was like a series of studies. 494 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: I don't know if they were all from the U 495 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: of Toronto or not, but they seem to be somewhat 496 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: related where it was. Um outside observers could watch people 497 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: playing games and they noticed cheaters. So they had this 498 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: information about cheaters that the people playing the games didn't 499 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: have about the cheaters. And when they were given the 500 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: the chance to let the players know about a cheater, 501 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: to send him I think like a gossip note is 502 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: what they called it. Um. They they would most people 503 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: would take them up on the offer and would send 504 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: a note of warning to the person that they were 505 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: playing somebody who was cheating. Yeah. Um, and they, like 506 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: you said, they went from being really upset and up 507 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: in arms to that release valve being undone and everything 508 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: was fine with the world again because that person had 509 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: been alerted to cheating through gossiping. So there is such 510 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: thing as altruistic gossiping as well. Yeah, with altruism. Tracy 511 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: had another example of let's say there's like a coral 512 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: group and the self appointed leader is really kind of 513 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: lazy and if someone UM, then other people are kind 514 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: of making up the slack doing the duties that UM 515 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: he or she should be doing. So when new comes 516 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: in the group, and they say, hey, listen this this 517 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: girl Jane is the head of the coral group. But 518 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: you should know don't count on Jane to bring the 519 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: sheet music for you because she never does it. So 520 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: that's sort of altruis stick in the air, helping someone 521 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: learn the rules of your new group. But you're also 522 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: kind of talking smack and making yourself superior to Jane. Right, 523 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: And then so Chasey added this one other thing that 524 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: some people would say that the person who's doing that 525 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: is really, like you said, just talking smack and isn't 526 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: really working towards a solution to the actual problem, which 527 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: is Jane being slack at her job. Right, And I wonder, 528 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: like that's a really good descriptive of what gossip is. 529 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: Like gossip would be talk that's not directed toward any 530 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: kind of solution. It's just talking. You know, Like if 531 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: you take that same conversation to somebody who can fire 532 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: Jane or make her do her job, you would no 533 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: one would consider that gossip because it's directed toward a goal, 534 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: towards the solution. So I guess, and that's probably one 535 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: thing that people don't like about gossip. It's it's really 536 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways it's just blowing off steam. 537 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: It's not really serving any direct purpose. They all seem 538 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: to be indirect like socializing people. I did now I 539 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: need an honorary doctorate from somewhere. You've got one. Um. 540 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: And then lastly, chuck um. One of the other things, 541 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: especially from malicious bond Um malicious gossip, is that UM, 542 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: when somebody it's a very dangerous game. Right, when you're 543 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: gossiping with somebody, especially with somebody that you're not super 544 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: tight with, UM, you you run the risk of scaring 545 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: that person. Because if there's one thing that people do 546 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: when they hear gossip, it's they take themselves and put 547 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: themselves in that situation. And one of the things that 548 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: you will immediately think when you're being gossip too, is well, 549 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: this person gossips, so they could very easily be gossiping 550 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: about me. How much should I trust this person? And 551 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: that's especially pertinent when it's not already like a tight pair, 552 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: and when the gossip is malicious you know, good point. Yeah, 553 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: well it's not mine. I'm just relating facts. You ever see, Uh, 554 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: you've watched that gossip Girl show. No, but there's a 555 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: Twitter handle gossip Girl I've noticed what in my research, 556 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: and it's like real No, it's like real gossip. Yeah, 557 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: I've never seen it either, But it's not real gossip 558 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: because it's all celebrity gossip, right. I think that's a 559 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: kid's not a kid show show for younger people than me. 560 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: It's not for middle aged men. Although I do like 561 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: the Blake Lively so well, that was one other thing 562 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: too like and I don't. We haven't come out and 563 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: said this. Um, there's a definite perception that gossip is 564 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: much more prevalent among women. Sure that's not true. No, No, 565 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: research shows that men and women basically across the board 566 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: equally gossip. It's old white men. Yeah, it's old white 567 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: old white men under attack in America. Eleven. You got 568 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: anything else? H No, sir, being trolley you know that? Yeah. 569 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: If you want to know more about gossip, you can 570 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: type that word in the search bar at how stuff 571 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: works dot com and it will bring up this article, 572 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: complete with totally superfluous illustrations that will baffle the mind. Um, 573 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: did you see him? Yeah, it's just weird. I kept 574 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: looking like, did I miss a story or something that 575 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: relates to that. It became a game I find the 576 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: meaning the uh and I think I said search bar, 577 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: and I think I said how stuff works. But either way, 578 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: it's time for listening. Now. I'm gonna call this Disney 579 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: Disney band. Hello, Chuck, Josh and Jerry and Neil. He 580 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: really wouldn't Neil the chair, No, Frank was a chair. 581 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: I think he means nol probably, so it's just hilarious. 582 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: I've been listening for a few months now, binging episodes 583 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: like well, I can't see what she says, Um, I 584 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: just listened to your part one of fairy Tales and 585 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: the last time on my way to work. The reason 586 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: I'm writing is about the original Little Mermaid story. When 587 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: I was going up, my parents were hardcore Southern Baptist. 588 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: During my childhood, the Southern Baptist Convention did not like 589 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: that Disney was friendly towards homosexuals and supported evolution, so 590 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: they called on all the churches to boycott Disney. So 591 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 1: my parents, a good Southern Baptist that they were, took 592 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 1: everything Disney out of our house and we weren't allowed 593 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: to have any Disney clothes or watch the Disney Channel, 594 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: and of course no Disney movies. So when the Disney 595 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 1: version of The Little Mermaid came out in nineteen one. 596 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: I was in first grade. All my friends watched it, 597 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: loved it. My mom was at a loss. Luckily, Golden 598 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: Films released their own version of The Little Mermaid, and 599 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,359 Speaker 1: my mom bought it. I watched this many times as 600 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,919 Speaker 1: a child, honestly thinking this is the only version. Didn't 601 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: learn until a few years later when I saw the 602 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: original at her friend's house. Um, WoT, I bet she 603 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: felt like, I'm watching The Little Mermaid. It's in color. Uh. 604 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,479 Speaker 1: This version I saw followed the original story by Hans 605 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 1: Christian Anderson, complete with a terrifying sea witch and the 606 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: suicide at the end, which a great movie for a 607 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 1: first grader to see, which started my nightmares. That's about 608 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: the time that I started smoking cigarette. So thanks for 609 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: all the great side tracking as well as the amazing 610 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: content you provide. And that is from Lindsay. Well, thanks 611 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: a lot, Lindsay appreciate that. Glad you finally got to 612 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: see The Little Mermaid. I like that she thank us 613 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 1: for side tracking. Some people do. Sure, it's pretty infrequent. 614 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: People are like just too on point, and then when 615 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: they do, I'm like, buddy, you have a long archive 616 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 1: to go through. Yeah, if that bothers you, We've got 617 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,359 Speaker 1: a lot of good sidetracks today. And it was ten 618 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,439 Speaker 1: past midnight by the way. Nice um. If you want 619 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: to get in touch with this, you can tweet to 620 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: us at s Y s K Podcast. You can join 621 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: us on Facebook dot com, slash Stuff you Should Know. 622 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: You can send us an email to Stuff Podcast at house, 623 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com, and Chuck as always join us 624 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: at at home on the web, Stuff Chuck Yet, Stuff 625 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: you Should Know Chuck dot com. For more on this 626 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff works dot com. 627 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: H