WEBVTT - Home Sweet Homer, Pt. 2 — The Odyssey 0:00:21.244 --> 0:00:24.604 Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you 0:00:24.645 --> 0:00:27.565 can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in 0:00:27.685 --> 0:00:31.365 just two visits. See any standard two D movie anytime 0:00:31.725 --> 0:00:34.845 with no blackoutdates or restrictions. Sign up now on the 0:00:34.885 --> 0:00:37.245 Regal app or at the link in our description and 0:00:37.445 --> 0:00:41.685 use code film spot twenty six to receive fifteen percent off. 0:00:43.685 --> 0:00:46.765 Its very difficult to keep the line between the past. 0:00:46.525 --> 0:00:49.045 And the press. You believe that someone out of the 0:00:49.084 --> 0:00:51.045 past can. 0:00:51.284 --> 0:00:54.045 Enter and take possession of a living be We. 0:00:54.045 --> 0:00:56.245 May be through with the past, but the past is 0:00:56.285 --> 0:01:00.205 not through with us. 0:01:01.205 --> 0:01:03.005 Welcome back to the Next Picture Show, a movie of 0:01:03.045 --> 0:01:05.125 the Week podcast devoted to a classic film and the 0:01:05.125 --> 0:01:07.485 way its shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm 0:01:07.525 --> 0:01:09.045 Tasha Robinson here again. 0:01:08.845 --> 0:01:11.845 With Keith Hips, Scott Tobias. 0:01:11.405 --> 0:01:12.445 And Genevieve Koski. 0:01:12.845 --> 0:01:15.445 In our last episode, we discussed Oh Brother, Where Art 0:01:15.485 --> 0:01:19.444 thou Joel Nathan Cohen's riff on Homer's epic poem The Odyssey. 0:01:19.525 --> 0:01:21.964 In their version, a fast talking reprobate and his two 0:01:22.005 --> 0:01:24.565 companions try to make their way home across the American 0:01:24.605 --> 0:01:27.565 South in nineteen thirty seven, pursued by a dogged sheriff 0:01:27.604 --> 0:01:30.365 and encountering colorful characters who might be just a little 0:01:30.405 --> 0:01:33.244 mystical but are more likely a whole lot of Kohenesque 0:01:33.244 --> 0:01:37.044 flim flammers and opportunists. Christopher Nolans The Odyssey comes at 0:01:37.084 --> 0:01:39.925 Homer's epic from a much more literal vantage point. It 0:01:40.005 --> 0:01:43.565 includes Homer's gods and monsters, along with overt magic in 0:01:43.604 --> 0:01:46.845 its mayhem. As the king of Ithaca, Odysseus played by 0:01:46.845 --> 0:01:49.565 Matt Damon, spends long years trying to make his way 0:01:49.565 --> 0:01:52.365 home from the Trojan War after angering the god Poseidon. 0:01:52.805 --> 0:01:55.885 It's a series of battles and fraught encounters, including a 0:01:55.885 --> 0:01:58.245 grueling trip to Hell to speak with an oracle who 0:01:58.285 --> 0:02:00.204 the o brother Boys get to speak with for free 0:02:00.285 --> 0:02:02.525 in the early moments of their movie. And even once 0:02:02.525 --> 0:02:04.805 Odysseus does get home, he has to deal with the 0:02:04.845 --> 0:02:08.084 mob of powerful, conniving suitors who are demanding to marry 0:02:08.125 --> 0:02:11.325 his wife, Penelope played by Anne Hathaway, and push odysseus 0:02:11.365 --> 0:02:14.165 son Telemachus played by Tom Holland out of line for 0:02:14.205 --> 0:02:16.685 the throne. Stay with us, Tell. 0:02:16.405 --> 0:02:31.165 Me what you remember A wife, A son? No, No, 0:02:35.005 --> 0:02:49.005 we wanted more. Help me go home. This is a 0:02:49.085 --> 0:02:55.445 household waiting for master. I want you to choose me. 0:02:58.764 --> 0:03:00.245 I think it's King is coming back. 0:03:00.845 --> 0:03:01.325 No, he's not. 0:03:07.565 --> 0:03:09.245 What would you do if he came back here to 0:03:09.245 --> 0:03:10.605 find all these suitors in his house. 0:03:13.245 --> 0:03:17.005 They're pineying your very daddy you didn't even know, like 0:03:17.165 --> 0:03:22.805 some sniffling bastard who looking after your wife and son? 0:03:24.405 --> 0:03:25.285 Do you see? 0:03:26.005 --> 0:03:33.765 My dad is coming home? Rand Cuts bringing it all. 0:03:33.845 --> 0:03:37.405 So the odyssey. I was joking just before we started recording, 0:03:37.565 --> 0:03:40.365 I wish there was something to talk about with this movie. 0:03:41.525 --> 0:03:44.365 I don't even know where to start. I guess, just baseline, 0:03:44.525 --> 0:03:45.325 what did you think? 0:03:46.165 --> 0:03:49.485 I came in this film with pretty high expectations and 0:03:49.525 --> 0:03:53.365 I can safely say that succeeded all of them, you know, 0:03:53.445 --> 0:03:58.045 as a spectacle. It certainly something I'll be thinking out 0:03:58.085 --> 0:04:01.725 for a long time. But just thematically and dramatically, the 0:04:01.765 --> 0:04:06.925 way it explores its themes via these really well realized characters. 0:04:07.445 --> 0:04:09.124 I don't know. I think I was pretty much blown 0:04:09.125 --> 0:04:11.565 away by it. I'm I walked away a huge fan. 0:04:11.965 --> 0:04:16.365 Yeah you're not alone. I really loved this film, and 0:04:16.445 --> 0:04:19.605 I am not a dieharden Olan fan. A lot of 0:04:19.605 --> 0:04:22.925 times his films leave me kind of cold and this 0:04:23.125 --> 0:04:26.405 definitely did not. This gave me kind of everything I 0:04:26.485 --> 0:04:29.485 was wanting out of Oppenheimer, which, sorry, guys, I actually 0:04:29.485 --> 0:04:31.885 did not like Oppenheimer that much. I know, I know, 0:04:32.365 --> 0:04:36.645 but because it just didn't connect with me emotionally the 0:04:36.685 --> 0:04:40.325 way this did. Like the last third of this movie, 0:04:41.005 --> 0:04:44.725 or just when Odysseus returns to Ithaca and the conversation 0:04:44.885 --> 0:04:49.445 he has with Penelope where he sort of relives the 0:04:50.085 --> 0:04:53.725 sack of Troy and you know, his role in it, 0:04:53.885 --> 0:05:01.085 and sort of the ideas about civilization and humanity and 0:05:01.205 --> 0:05:04.325 the kind of breakdown of the social order, it all 0:05:04.365 --> 0:05:05.845 just hit me right in the gun. And it does 0:05:05.885 --> 0:05:08.725 feel very like along the same lines of like what 0:05:08.844 --> 0:05:12.244 Nolan had on his mind with Oppenheimer is there feels 0:05:12.284 --> 0:05:14.525 like a very direct line from that film to this one. 0:05:15.045 --> 0:05:18.525 But this one just hit me so much harder on 0:05:18.685 --> 0:05:21.805 both a spectacle level and an emotional level. On a 0:05:21.805 --> 0:05:25.565 performance level, I really loved Matt Damon here, which is like, 0:05:26.165 --> 0:05:28.325 you know, is not I don't know that I've ever 0:05:28.885 --> 0:05:30.685 said like I love Matt Damon because he's just like 0:05:30.765 --> 0:05:32.765 kind of like a dependable He's Matt Damon. You know, 0:05:32.805 --> 0:05:35.365 he does what he does, but he's like, but what 0:05:35.445 --> 0:05:38.044 he does is so right here, and I just like 0:05:38.125 --> 0:05:41.005 he carried this film in a way that I just 0:05:41.844 --> 0:05:47.124 loved watching some incredible action set pieces. Again, the sack 0:05:47.165 --> 0:05:50.364 of Troy, Like when we saw it happening the first time, 0:05:50.885 --> 0:05:53.325 I was just on the edge of my seat the 0:05:53.365 --> 0:05:56.205 whole time. There's a bunch of other sequences. I'm sure 0:05:56.205 --> 0:06:01.005 we can get into, but I really don't have. You know, 0:06:01.045 --> 0:06:03.685 at this point of a few hours afresh off of 0:06:03.685 --> 0:06:07.164 seeing it, I don't have a lot of complaints about 0:06:07.205 --> 0:06:09.125 this movie, except for the people next to me who 0:06:09.165 --> 0:06:11.485 I had to shush when they were making great comments 0:06:11.525 --> 0:06:12.805 about Elliott Page but. 0:06:13.605 --> 0:06:18.044 No great casting too. 0:06:18.485 --> 0:06:22.164 Yeah, it was during that scene, like an amazing, amazing scene, 0:06:22.325 --> 0:06:25.604 and they were just talking over it and misgendering him and. 0:06:26.005 --> 0:06:30.325 In Tartarus or the first one in Tartarus. Yes, I mean, 0:06:30.325 --> 0:06:33.005 it's not very often you get to see people in 0:06:33.045 --> 0:06:35.645 person that have no souls and see what that looks like. 0:06:35.844 --> 0:06:40.724 It's a rare privilege, I suppose. Yeah. I went in 0:06:40.885 --> 0:06:45.645 with very temperate expectations because I also do not always 0:06:45.685 --> 0:06:49.925 love Nolan. I think with a tenant in particular, that 0:06:50.045 --> 0:06:52.645 kind of gets way too far into his own head 0:06:52.725 --> 0:06:56.685 and ended up producing something that doesn't necessarily work either 0:06:56.725 --> 0:07:00.685 as narrative or as an emotional story. And there are 0:07:00.685 --> 0:07:03.724 other films of his that I like, fine, it's just 0:07:03.765 --> 0:07:07.724 that they've been hailed as like acts of revelatory genius, 0:07:07.765 --> 0:07:11.645 and I've never connected on that level. I mean, he 0:07:11.685 --> 0:07:14.605 did do one of my favorite films of all time, 0:07:14.885 --> 0:07:18.885 The Prestige, but I'm still on some level waiting for 0:07:18.925 --> 0:07:22.965 another Prestige out of him. Came close for me. It 0:07:23.005 --> 0:07:28.205 definitely helps that I went in again pretty tempered expectations, 0:07:28.285 --> 0:07:30.245 not just because of the Nolan of it all, but 0:07:30.285 --> 0:07:37.325 because the kind of the sinophile society's expectations seem to 0:07:37.365 --> 0:07:41.125 be so through the roof over this. The anticipation has 0:07:41.165 --> 0:07:43.525 been so high, and I didn't want to fall for 0:07:43.645 --> 0:07:48.045 that hype. But this is a pretty complicated story. It's 0:07:48.125 --> 0:07:52.845 once again Nolan playing around with time and linearity and 0:07:52.925 --> 0:07:56.045 it can cause and effect and how you get the 0:07:56.085 --> 0:08:00.365 story and in what order kind of I think brilliantly 0:08:00.565 --> 0:08:04.005 starting with a point where a poet a performer is 0:08:04.085 --> 0:08:08.165 like declaiming the story of how Odysseus came up with 0:08:08.245 --> 0:08:13.125 the idea that ended the Trojan war that enabled the 0:08:13.525 --> 0:08:15.885 sack of Troy, and that story has made it home 0:08:15.925 --> 0:08:19.045 before he did, long long before he did in his 0:08:19.405 --> 0:08:23.405 own halls in Ithaca. The poets are like telling the 0:08:23.445 --> 0:08:27.645 tale of this magnificent hero, but the magnificent hero himself 0:08:27.725 --> 0:08:31.045 is nowhere to be seen. Nobody knows what his fate is. 0:08:31.805 --> 0:08:37.525 And that contrast I think between he's already passed into 0:08:37.605 --> 0:08:40.125 legend and he might still be here among us, but 0:08:40.165 --> 0:08:44.445 we don't know. I think is really interesting thematically and 0:08:44.605 --> 0:08:48.085 just leads into a lot of different thematic things that 0:08:48.165 --> 0:08:52.085 this movie is doing. I think it's beautiful as spectacle. 0:08:52.325 --> 0:08:57.325 It's you know, heartwarming and heartbreaking, it's exciting, it's really 0:08:57.325 --> 0:09:02.565 well performed. I enjoyed this movie a lot. I gotta say, well. 0:09:02.445 --> 0:09:03.804 Not to be the web none. I can't be a 0:09:03.845 --> 0:09:04.724 wet blanket here. I thought. 0:09:04.725 --> 0:09:06.485 I thought I'd come in and just say what are 0:09:06.525 --> 0:09:08.605 you people talking about? But that's not going to be 0:09:08.684 --> 0:09:10.925 me either. I mean, you know, I'm a fan of 0:09:10.965 --> 0:09:15.204 Nolan's and have been since Memento, which I saw, which 0:09:15.285 --> 0:09:20.804 I saw at Toronto, and the year two thousand and Scott. 0:09:20.564 --> 0:09:22.405 Reel had have to say, I've been a fan since 0:09:22.485 --> 0:09:23.805 following I have been. 0:09:24.365 --> 0:09:28.365 You think, not that many real heads out there, but 0:09:29.165 --> 0:09:31.645 and so obviously my expectations were quite high, and I think, 0:09:31.684 --> 0:09:36.685 I think that he keeps taking on projects of greater ambition. 0:09:36.804 --> 0:09:40.365 It almost feels like a powerlifter adding reps, you know, 0:09:40.445 --> 0:09:42.245 I mean, you know, it's like it's like you go 0:09:42.245 --> 0:09:45.245 from Dunkirk to Oppenheimer and now this, and it just 0:09:45.245 --> 0:09:49.645 seems like each one is just more gargantuan and improbable 0:09:49.684 --> 0:09:53.645 and achievement than the last. But he at this point 0:09:53.725 --> 0:09:57.324 he can handle it with with you know, a dexterity 0:09:57.365 --> 0:10:00.405 that is near impossible that you can't you can't even 0:10:00.445 --> 0:10:05.325 think of too many contemporary filmmakers who could even try. 0:10:05.085 --> 0:10:07.165 To do something like The Odyssey. 0:10:07.245 --> 0:10:10.005 But I also think that it's a film of great 0:10:10.045 --> 0:10:12.925 ideas and and weight and and real personality. I mean, 0:10:12.965 --> 0:10:15.245 like this is a film you know that the time 0:10:15.325 --> 0:10:19.324 theme is is obviously important to this movie, and it's 0:10:19.325 --> 0:10:22.205 important to Nolan. You know, you have the connection, of 0:10:22.205 --> 0:10:26.125 course to Oppenheimer in having this this hero who has 0:10:26.165 --> 0:10:31.045 to make decisions on behalf of many people and and 0:10:31.125 --> 0:10:34.005 have to has to live with the weight of those decisions, 0:10:34.285 --> 0:10:38.084 has to live with mistakes or incorrect decisions that have 0:10:38.885 --> 0:10:42.564 horrible losses, and so the weight of that really hits 0:10:42.605 --> 0:10:45.165 you so hard in this movie. And time itself, of 0:10:45.165 --> 0:10:47.245 course has a weight I think about like one of 0:10:47.245 --> 0:10:51.845 my other favorite movies, intert of Nolan's Interstellar and and 0:10:51.845 --> 0:10:54.405 and my favorite part of that movie is all of 0:10:54.405 --> 0:10:57.684 the stuff on the planet in which time passes in 0:10:57.725 --> 0:11:01.085 the real world or on Earth a long time. So 0:11:01.165 --> 0:11:03.125 any minute you spend on this planet is going to 0:11:03.125 --> 0:11:06.885 be very costly to a mission that is already full 0:11:06.925 --> 0:11:09.365 of urgency because it's about, you know, saving the Earth, 0:11:09.765 --> 0:11:13.005 and it's so heartbreaking and so wrenching for that reason. 0:11:13.045 --> 0:11:16.085 And this movie has that feel to it of just like, 0:11:16.445 --> 0:11:18.525 you know, the amount of time that it has passed, 0:11:18.564 --> 0:11:21.045 how much has been lost, you know, the weight of 0:11:21.085 --> 0:11:24.684 everything is just so immense in this film. And and uh, 0:11:24.725 --> 0:11:26.885 and it's good to see, you know, a film of 0:11:27.045 --> 0:11:29.965 the scale feel personal and feel very much like a 0:11:30.045 --> 0:11:31.084 Christopher Nolan movie. 0:11:31.085 --> 0:11:33.405 And in you know, something. 0:11:33.125 --> 0:11:35.285 You can kind of talk about in relation to other 0:11:35.325 --> 0:11:37.965 things that he's done, because I think the Odyssey as 0:11:38.005 --> 0:11:41.925 a project, it almost seems too imposing for any you know, 0:11:42.205 --> 0:11:45.564 personality to attach itself to it, and. 0:11:45.405 --> 0:11:47.965 He goes beyond the Odyssey. He like being brings in 0:11:48.645 --> 0:11:51.365 Iliad too, talk about adding reps. 0:11:51.765 --> 0:11:54.564 Yeah, the Trojan Horse. And then, not to get too panatic, 0:11:54.605 --> 0:11:57.405 the Trojan Horse actually isn't in the Iliad after the 0:11:57.445 --> 0:11:59.525 timeline of the Iliad. But but the way that that 0:12:00.245 --> 0:12:01.965 when I first heard the Trojan Horse is going to 0:12:01.965 --> 0:12:03.005 be and I was like, well, they just throwing that 0:12:03.045 --> 0:12:05.605 in because it's a crowd pleaser. Everyone loves the Trojan Horse. 0:12:05.845 --> 0:12:08.605 But like the way it is used symbolically in this 0:12:08.684 --> 0:12:10.444 film without I don't want to give too much away, 0:12:10.525 --> 0:12:13.165 but just like the way, you know, from the first 0:12:13.325 --> 0:12:15.285 from the first scene to the last, it's such an 0:12:15.325 --> 0:12:20.204 important object and its meaning is so significant and changes 0:12:20.245 --> 0:12:22.445 over the course of the of the film. You know, 0:12:22.485 --> 0:12:25.765 I can't imagine, you know, this version of the Odyssey 0:12:25.765 --> 0:12:27.685 at least without the Trojan Wars in it. 0:12:27.684 --> 0:12:30.565 It's also just kind of an opportunity to, you know, 0:12:30.645 --> 0:12:34.324 take a part of the legend that I think everybody 0:12:34.445 --> 0:12:37.565 knows and give you a new perspective on it in 0:12:37.684 --> 0:12:42.245 terms of addressing kind of the practicalities of what it 0:12:42.285 --> 0:12:44.085 would be like to be in the Trojan Horse. 0:12:46.245 --> 0:12:48.165 Well, let me ask you this, when you think about 0:12:48.205 --> 0:12:51.084 the Trojan Horse. Every time we think about tuge horse 0:12:51.165 --> 0:12:53.405 or I think it's got wheels on it, just pushing 0:12:53.405 --> 0:12:57.245 it in there, you know what I mean. And I 0:12:57.245 --> 0:12:59.165 think that, like I think the fact that this you know, 0:12:59.205 --> 0:13:01.805 again I use the word weight. I mean, you know, 0:13:01.965 --> 0:13:07.045 I mean just the profound labor of a dragon, this 0:13:07.125 --> 0:13:12.085 damn thing you know from the beach behind the walls. 0:13:12.125 --> 0:13:14.405 I mean, that's you know, kind of is typical of 0:13:14.445 --> 0:13:17.605 this movie, in which everything feels like it's heavy and 0:13:17.645 --> 0:13:20.684 difficult and in a labor and something that takes a really, 0:13:20.765 --> 0:13:21.645 really long time. 0:13:22.045 --> 0:13:24.325 I love that symbolically for the movie. 0:13:24.525 --> 0:13:26.685 Also, you know, just dealing with like how did they 0:13:26.725 --> 0:13:29.245 go to the bathroom in the in the Trojan Horse. 0:13:29.325 --> 0:13:33.405 You know, it's this is a movie about about blood 0:13:33.525 --> 0:13:36.885 and sweat and mud and feces and. 0:13:36.564 --> 0:13:39.525 Holding it in a movie about holding it in. 0:13:41.005 --> 0:13:43.885 It's just it's it's a It's a movie that really 0:13:43.965 --> 0:13:48.765 focuses on the physicality of being human and kind of 0:13:48.765 --> 0:13:52.005 the terror of encountering things that are not human and 0:13:52.165 --> 0:13:55.845 don't have that physicality, and just a lot of these 0:13:56.045 --> 0:13:58.845 different set pieces. I'm particularly thinking about the sequence with 0:13:58.845 --> 0:14:04.564 with Circe, there's an an emphasis on bodies. I think 0:14:04.645 --> 0:14:08.365 that that takes this beyond sort of the usual exploration 0:14:08.645 --> 0:14:12.365 of of myth. I also pictured the Trojan horse on wheels, 0:14:12.445 --> 0:14:16.125 and I picture it as on all fours and thus 0:14:16.485 --> 0:14:18.204 a shape that would be a lot easier for a 0:14:18.205 --> 0:14:20.645 bunch of soldiers to pack into. Picture it made out 0:14:20.645 --> 0:14:22.965 of wood rather than metal, so a lot of easier 0:14:22.965 --> 0:14:26.085 to move around and picture it just you know, wheeled 0:14:26.205 --> 0:14:29.285 up to the gates of Troy. That's sort of the 0:14:29.845 --> 0:14:34.325 cartoony image you always see when people are portraying it is, 0:14:34.405 --> 0:14:36.845 you know, we hey, we got you a horse. We're 0:14:36.845 --> 0:14:39.125 going to wheel it up to the gates of the city, 0:14:39.645 --> 0:14:42.005 say thank you for the war, and here's a present 0:14:42.085 --> 0:14:45.765 for you, and then go away. As opposed to you know, 0:14:45.965 --> 0:14:48.165 where they find it, how they find it, what they 0:14:48.165 --> 0:14:51.125 do with it. It's all just like a fascinating take. And 0:14:51.165 --> 0:14:52.805 I guess what it comes down to is this is 0:14:52.805 --> 0:14:55.165 a movie full of decisions. You know, this is a 0:14:55.205 --> 0:15:00.045 movie that is not drawing easily or comfortably on other 0:15:00.285 --> 0:15:03.925 people's like ideas of what this myth are, and kind 0:15:03.965 --> 0:15:07.885 of to a fault, Nolan has taken a really shocking 0:15:07.925 --> 0:15:13.925 amount of flak for the costumed choices, for decor choices, 0:15:14.005 --> 0:15:20.965 production design, individual casting, costuming, language, the accents of the 0:15:21.245 --> 0:15:23.565 I like, it just seems like every day there's a 0:15:23.565 --> 0:15:27.205 new story that's Christopher Nolan defends the blank in the 0:15:27.245 --> 0:15:30.725 Odyssey or explains the choice to blank in the Odyssey, 0:15:30.805 --> 0:15:34.405 and it's like, who are all of these like Greek 0:15:34.445 --> 0:15:39.325 literature fans that are that are so damn mad about 0:15:39.365 --> 0:15:44.165 the details of the armor in this adaptation. But you know, 0:15:44.205 --> 0:15:45.125 it's it's just maybe. 0:15:45.085 --> 0:15:50.925 Just historical record, like acting like and then I appreciate. 0:15:51.085 --> 0:15:54.565 I think it announces that it's going to be tailored 0:15:54.685 --> 0:15:56.205 for you know, it's going to be sort of a 0:15:56.645 --> 0:16:00.045 not period specific when the moment it starts using the 0:16:00.085 --> 0:16:03.245 words dad and mom, Okay, yeah, this this is this 0:16:03.325 --> 0:16:05.765 is you know, contemporary language. Let's let's go with that. 0:16:05.765 --> 0:16:08.405 That's that's fine. Before we move on too quickly, Tasha, 0:16:08.445 --> 0:16:10.405 if you want to picture the Trojan horse with like 0:16:10.405 --> 0:16:14.765 a little fold out pouch, you should google the popcorn 0:16:14.765 --> 0:16:20.565 bucket very. 0:16:18.605 --> 0:16:22.205 You know, having having got the details from the movie 0:16:22.245 --> 0:16:24.245 of what it must have been like inside that horse 0:16:24.925 --> 0:16:27.725 and also from a C. S. Lewis tried to write 0:16:27.765 --> 0:16:31.045 a novel about the Sack of Troy, and the part 0:16:31.125 --> 0:16:33.205 that he finished is just what it was like to 0:16:33.205 --> 0:16:36.005 be inside the Trojan Horse, and it's much much like 0:16:36.085 --> 0:16:39.285 this movie. It's fascinating. I really really wish that he 0:16:39.325 --> 0:16:41.525 had finished that book, but he wasn't sure where to 0:16:41.565 --> 0:16:44.365 go with it. All that in mind, I don't think 0:16:44.365 --> 0:16:47.285 I would want to put food into a Trojan Horse 0:16:47.285 --> 0:16:49.565 and eat out of it at this point. Too many 0:16:49.565 --> 0:16:54.085 bad associations, so to speaking of associations here, like this 0:16:54.445 --> 0:16:58.085 is a story that is told via association, kind of 0:16:58.085 --> 0:17:01.605 one thing leading to another, jumping back and forth in time. 0:17:02.405 --> 0:17:05.285 You know, somebody telling a story, segueing to what the 0:17:05.365 --> 0:17:10.765 story was, like somebody re experiencing a memory, taking us 0:17:10.805 --> 0:17:13.925 to that memory and seeing what the experience was for 0:17:13.965 --> 0:17:17.885 the first time. It's a very nonlinear film. Was there 0:17:17.925 --> 0:17:21.565 anything in that that I don't know? Do you up 0:17:21.685 --> 0:17:23.565 or that you wanted more of at a different time? 0:17:24.045 --> 0:17:26.725 Like do you think this was the only order to 0:17:26.765 --> 0:17:29.285 tell the story in? How did you? How did you 0:17:29.285 --> 0:17:33.405 take the nonlinearity aspect of it? The biggest nolanism. 0:17:33.525 --> 0:17:35.885 Can I give you an example that I think, really, 0:17:35.925 --> 0:17:36.645 really works. 0:17:36.885 --> 0:17:37.765 Oh yeah, it's. 0:17:37.645 --> 0:17:41.805 When Solemicus is visiting in Alais and Sparta and they 0:17:41.885 --> 0:17:45.685 do that that amazing build up to opening the gates 0:17:45.725 --> 0:17:48.965 of Troy and the soldiers rush in, and then he 0:17:49.045 --> 0:17:51.125 just goes, well, you know the rest of the story, 0:17:51.165 --> 0:17:55.045 which actually got a laugh for me at the moment, 0:17:55.245 --> 0:17:57.525 And then when they actually come back and show you 0:17:57.565 --> 0:17:59.365 the rest of the story, it's like, oh, this is 0:17:59.645 --> 0:18:04.245 why he's not telling us. He's alighting over what actually 0:18:04.285 --> 0:18:08.845 happens once those gates are open, for reasons, you know, 0:18:08.885 --> 0:18:11.605 maybe you know, I think several different ways you could 0:18:11.445 --> 0:18:16.045 read why he's he's withholding those details, but it's really 0:18:16.125 --> 0:18:20.405 effective to split up that sequence across not quite too 0:18:20.445 --> 0:18:23.645 opposite to the three hour movie, but fairly far far 0:18:23.645 --> 0:18:24.605 apart from one another. 0:18:25.125 --> 0:18:28.205 I wouldn't say that it doesn't work for me, and 0:18:28.285 --> 0:18:31.885 I certainly don't have an idea of, you know, how 0:18:32.005 --> 0:18:33.965 Nolan could have done it better, and I would never 0:18:34.085 --> 0:18:37.605 dare say as much. But maybe it was because it's 0:18:37.725 --> 0:18:44.045 so long before we actually get to Odysseus on Calypso's Island, 0:18:44.845 --> 0:18:47.245 that the length of time he had been there, the 0:18:47.325 --> 0:18:49.925 length of time that had just been like wasted away 0:18:49.965 --> 0:18:53.565 there didn't really translate. Maybe because we were jumping around 0:18:53.565 --> 0:18:56.005 so much. It felt like something we just really had 0:18:56.005 --> 0:19:00.605 to be told, you know, through dialogue. And that's probably, 0:19:00.685 --> 0:19:02.445 like I said, the best way to do that. I 0:19:02.485 --> 0:19:05.805 don't have a better way to do that. But because 0:19:05.805 --> 0:19:08.965 of how much we are jumping around, both in time 0:19:09.125 --> 0:19:12.965 and setting, like when we are supposed to feel like 0:19:13.005 --> 0:19:15.285 we have been in a place where our character has 0:19:15.285 --> 0:19:18.085 been in a place for a really long time, it's 0:19:18.125 --> 0:19:19.845 maybe a little harder to bring that across. Or the 0:19:19.885 --> 0:19:22.845 men on the beach waiting to sack Troy, you know, 0:19:22.885 --> 0:19:25.445 they're there for years, you know. And again, it's just 0:19:25.445 --> 0:19:27.685 something we have to be told. And it's not like 0:19:27.725 --> 0:19:30.005 I want to spend an hour on the like on 0:19:30.045 --> 0:19:34.125 that beach. But I think maybe sort of an artifact 0:19:34.205 --> 0:19:37.565 of this approach of jumping around so much is that 0:19:37.645 --> 0:19:42.165 you lose a little bit of that sense of languishing 0:19:42.885 --> 0:19:44.645 in some of these places, Like. 0:19:44.605 --> 0:19:47.685 I said, when that moment hits though, it hits so hard. 0:19:47.885 --> 0:19:50.445 Though I guess to defend the film a little bit, 0:19:51.085 --> 0:19:52.965 I think I think it gives you the impact that 0:19:53.045 --> 0:19:55.285 you that you know, and this is maybe a credit 0:19:55.325 --> 0:19:57.965 to you know, the scene itself when when when he 0:19:58.845 --> 0:20:01.125 when he's told and comes to realize how much time 0:20:01.525 --> 0:20:05.925 has passed, you know, you know, the performances. I think 0:20:05.925 --> 0:20:08.885 that's a really strong moment for met Damon. I feel 0:20:08.885 --> 0:20:12.765 like the impact of that time lost, you know, and 0:20:12.805 --> 0:20:17.125 that realization, that revelation is it has that kind of 0:20:17.565 --> 0:20:19.925 kick that you want it to have, so get it 0:20:19.965 --> 0:20:21.565 gets there, I guess. 0:20:21.685 --> 0:20:24.285 And as far as the other, you know, chronology, I 0:20:24.325 --> 0:20:25.325 think I think it's a it's. 0:20:25.165 --> 0:20:27.845 A film that where the structure of it and the 0:20:27.885 --> 0:20:30.885 chronology of it is all about like where can we 0:20:30.925 --> 0:20:34.565 place these these scenes in these flashbacks? Where where's the 0:20:34.565 --> 0:20:36.845 most effective spot for this stuff to land? 0:20:37.125 --> 0:20:39.565 You know? And uh and I think in that sense 0:20:39.605 --> 0:20:41.845 of poet is wildly effective. 0:20:42.165 --> 0:20:47.205 Yeah, I certainly agree that there's a feeling of Nolan 0:20:47.325 --> 0:20:50.445 kind of I really wonder what the process was like, 0:20:50.445 --> 0:20:53.085 like how many iterations the script went through in terms 0:20:53.205 --> 0:20:55.285 of figuring out that balance in terms of where things 0:20:55.285 --> 0:20:59.045 should go. But as it is, you know, we we 0:20:59.165 --> 0:21:03.285 have to space out some of the combat, so you know, 0:21:03.605 --> 0:21:07.765 there isn't one gigantic set piece like that, and then 0:21:07.845 --> 0:21:09.565 just a whole lot of talking, you know, even if 0:21:09.565 --> 0:21:13.445 it is talking to two shades and Tartarus. But regardless, 0:21:13.485 --> 0:21:17.925 I feel like the time signatures here are maybe one 0:21:17.925 --> 0:21:22.125 of the most obvious nolanisms of the movie. But I'm 0:21:22.205 --> 0:21:26.045 curious what else you see, as you know, signs that 0:21:26.085 --> 0:21:28.365 this is a Nolan movie, or thoughts on how this 0:21:28.525 --> 0:21:32.325 fits into Nolan's interests and kind of the direction his 0:21:32.645 --> 0:21:35.205 film career has been going. So we're going to take 0:21:35.245 --> 0:21:36.725 a short break and then we're going to come back 0:21:36.725 --> 0:21:37.085 with that. 0:21:44.165 --> 0:21:46.565 Why can't God speak in ways we understand? 0:21:49.605 --> 0:21:50.565 Who doesn't understand? 0:21:50.605 --> 0:21:52.765 Thunder fire? 0:21:53.925 --> 0:21:55.925 A child, smile, good harvest? 0:21:56.805 --> 0:21:58.365 Can you hide yourselves from us? 0:22:00.485 --> 0:22:00.725 Look? 0:22:02.285 --> 0:22:03.405 What's moving that cloud? 0:22:04.765 --> 0:22:10.685 Massing those birds? What's moving the water? So what do 0:22:10.765 --> 0:22:14.085 you think? I mean, reading interviews with him, he just 0:22:14.165 --> 0:22:18.205 kind of talks about how he needed something epic to 0:22:18.285 --> 0:22:24.165 follow up the scope of Oppenheimer, And I mean that 0:22:24.485 --> 0:22:27.125 almost seems like a pun. It seems like sort of 0:22:27.165 --> 0:22:29.325 a light thing that you throw at the media, to 0:22:29.365 --> 0:22:33.245 the media to cover up like why this is an obsession? 0:22:33.805 --> 0:22:37.285 But how have you parsed kind of the odyssey fitting 0:22:37.365 --> 0:22:41.245 into what Christopher Nolan cares about or the way Christopher 0:22:41.325 --> 0:22:43.405 Nolan tells stories I mattion this a. 0:22:43.405 --> 0:22:46.605 Little bit earlier, but it feels natural as a follow 0:22:46.645 --> 0:22:50.725 up to Oppenheimer, just in terms of these leaders having 0:22:50.765 --> 0:22:54.565 to make decisions that are going to cost the lives 0:22:54.565 --> 0:22:56.965 of many people, that are going to weigh heavily on 0:22:57.005 --> 0:23:01.365