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Speaker 2: Its very difficult to keep the line between the past.
Speaker 3: And the press. You believe that someone out of the
Speaker 3: past can.
Speaker 2: Enter and take possession of a living be We.
Speaker 4: May be through with the past, but the past is
Speaker 4: not through with us.
Speaker 5: Welcome back to the Next Picture Show, a movie of
Speaker 5: the Week podcast devoted to a classic film and the
Speaker 5: way its shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm
Speaker 5: Tasha Robinson here again.
Speaker 2: With Keith Hips, Scott Tobias.
Speaker 6: And Genevieve Koski.
Speaker 5: In our last episode, we discussed Oh Brother, Where Art
Speaker 5: thou Joel Nathan Cohen's riff on Homer's epic poem The Odyssey.
Speaker 5: In their version, a fast talking reprobate and his two
Speaker 5: companions try to make their way home across the American
Speaker 5: South in nineteen thirty seven, pursued by a dogged sheriff
Speaker 5: and encountering colorful characters who might be just a little
Speaker 5: mystical but are more likely a whole lot of Kohenesque
Speaker 5: flim flammers and opportunists. Christopher Nolans The Odyssey comes at
Speaker 5: Homer's epic from a much more literal vantage point. It
Speaker 5: includes Homer's gods and monsters, along with overt magic in
Speaker 5: its mayhem. As the king of Ithaca, Odysseus played by
Speaker 5: Matt Damon, spends long years trying to make his way
Speaker 5: home from the Trojan War after angering the god Poseidon.
Speaker 5: It's a series of battles and fraught encounters, including a
Speaker 5: grueling trip to Hell to speak with an oracle who
Speaker 5: the o brother Boys get to speak with for free
Speaker 5: in the early moments of their movie. And even once
Speaker 5: Odysseus does get home, he has to deal with the
Speaker 5: mob of powerful, conniving suitors who are demanding to marry
Speaker 5: his wife, Penelope played by Anne Hathaway, and push odysseus
Speaker 5: son Telemachus played by Tom Holland out of line for
Speaker 5: the throne. Stay with us, Tell.
Speaker 3: Me what you remember A wife, A son? No, No,
Speaker 3: we wanted more. Help me go home. This is a
Speaker 3: household waiting for master. I want you to choose me.
Speaker 7: I think it's King is coming back.
Speaker 3: No, he's not.
Speaker 6: What would you do if he came back here to
Speaker 6: find all these suitors in his house.
Speaker 3: They're pineying your very daddy you didn't even know, like
Speaker 3: some sniffling bastard who looking after your wife and son?
Speaker 2: Do you see?
Speaker 3: My dad is coming home? Rand Cuts bringing it all.
Speaker 5: So the odyssey. I was joking just before we started recording,
Speaker 5: I wish there was something to talk about with this movie.
Speaker 5: I don't even know where to start. I guess, just baseline,
Speaker 5: what did you think?
Speaker 7: I came in this film with pretty high expectations and
Speaker 7: I can safely say that succeeded all of them, you know,
Speaker 7: as a spectacle. It certainly something I'll be thinking out
Speaker 7: for a long time. But just thematically and dramatically, the
Speaker 7: way it explores its themes via these really well realized characters.
Speaker 7: I don't know. I think I was pretty much blown
Speaker 7: away by it. I'm I walked away a huge fan.
Speaker 6: Yeah you're not alone. I really loved this film, and
Speaker 6: I am not a dieharden Olan fan. A lot of
Speaker 6: times his films leave me kind of cold and this
Speaker 6: definitely did not. This gave me kind of everything I
Speaker 6: was wanting out of Oppenheimer, which, sorry, guys, I actually
Speaker 6: did not like Oppenheimer that much. I know, I know,
Speaker 6: but because it just didn't connect with me emotionally the
Speaker 6: way this did. Like the last third of this movie,
Speaker 6: or just when Odysseus returns to Ithaca and the conversation
Speaker 6: he has with Penelope where he sort of relives the
Speaker 6: sack of Troy and you know, his role in it,
Speaker 6: and sort of the ideas about civilization and humanity and
Speaker 6: the kind of breakdown of the social order, it all
Speaker 6: just hit me right in the gun. And it does
Speaker 6: feel very like along the same lines of like what
Speaker 6: Nolan had on his mind with Oppenheimer is there feels
Speaker 6: like a very direct line from that film to this one.
Speaker 6: But this one just hit me so much harder on
Speaker 6: both a spectacle level and an emotional level. On a
Speaker 6: performance level, I really loved Matt Damon here, which is like,
Speaker 6: you know, is not I don't know that I've ever
Speaker 6: said like I love Matt Damon because he's just like
Speaker 6: kind of like a dependable He's Matt Damon. You know,
Speaker 6: he does what he does, but he's like, but what
Speaker 6: he does is so right here, and I just like
Speaker 6: he carried this film in a way that I just
Speaker 6: loved watching some incredible action set pieces. Again, the sack
Speaker 6: of Troy, Like when we saw it happening the first time,
Speaker 6: I was just on the edge of my seat the
Speaker 6: whole time. There's a bunch of other sequences. I'm sure
Speaker 6: we can get into, but I really don't have. You know,
Speaker 6: at this point of a few hours afresh off of
Speaker 6: seeing it, I don't have a lot of complaints about
Speaker 6: this movie, except for the people next to me who
Speaker 6: I had to shush when they were making great comments
Speaker 6: about Elliott Page but.
Speaker 2: No great casting too.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was during that scene, like an amazing, amazing scene,
Speaker 6: and they were just talking over it and misgendering him and.
Speaker 5: In Tartarus or the first one in Tartarus. Yes, I mean,
Speaker 5: it's not very often you get to see people in
Speaker 5: person that have no souls and see what that looks like.
Speaker 5: It's a rare privilege, I suppose. Yeah. I went in
Speaker 5: with very temperate expectations because I also do not always
Speaker 5: love Nolan. I think with a tenant in particular, that
Speaker 5: kind of gets way too far into his own head
Speaker 5: and ended up producing something that doesn't necessarily work either
Speaker 5: as narrative or as an emotional story. And there are
Speaker 5: other films of his that I like, fine, it's just
Speaker 5: that they've been hailed as like acts of revelatory genius,
Speaker 5: and I've never connected on that level. I mean, he
Speaker 5: did do one of my favorite films of all time,
Speaker 5: The Prestige, but I'm still on some level waiting for
Speaker 5: another Prestige out of him. Came close for me. It
Speaker 5: definitely helps that I went in again pretty tempered expectations,
Speaker 5: not just because of the Nolan of it all, but
Speaker 5: because the kind of the sinophile society's expectations seem to
Speaker 5: be so through the roof over this. The anticipation has
Speaker 5: been so high, and I didn't want to fall for
Speaker 5: that hype. But this is a pretty complicated story. It's
Speaker 5: once again Nolan playing around with time and linearity and
Speaker 5: it can cause and effect and how you get the
Speaker 5: story and in what order kind of I think brilliantly
Speaker 5: starting with a point where a poet a performer is
Speaker 5: like declaiming the story of how Odysseus came up with
Speaker 5: the idea that ended the Trojan war that enabled the
Speaker 5: sack of Troy, and that story has made it home
Speaker 5: before he did, long long before he did in his
Speaker 5: own halls in Ithaca. The poets are like telling the
Speaker 5: tale of this magnificent hero, but the magnificent hero himself
Speaker 5: is nowhere to be seen. Nobody knows what his fate is.
Speaker 5: And that contrast I think between he's already passed into
Speaker 5: legend and he might still be here among us, but
Speaker 5: we don't know. I think is really interesting thematically and
Speaker 5: just leads into a lot of different thematic things that
Speaker 5: this movie is doing. I think it's beautiful as spectacle.
Speaker 5: It's you know, heartwarming and heartbreaking, it's exciting, it's really
Speaker 5: well performed. I enjoyed this movie a lot. I gotta say, well.
Speaker 2: Not to be the web none. I can't be a
Speaker 2: wet blanket here. I thought.
Speaker 4: I thought I'd come in and just say what are
Speaker 4: you people talking about? But that's not going to be
Speaker 4: me either. I mean, you know, I'm a fan of
Speaker 4: Nolan's and have been since Memento, which I saw, which
Speaker 4: I saw at Toronto, and the year two thousand and Scott.
Speaker 7: Reel had have to say, I've been a fan since
Speaker 7: following I have been.
Speaker 4: You think, not that many real heads out there, but
Speaker 4: and so obviously my expectations were quite high, and I think,
Speaker 4: I think that he keeps taking on projects of greater ambition.
Speaker 4: It almost feels like a powerlifter adding reps, you know,
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, it's like it's like you go
Speaker 4: from Dunkirk to Oppenheimer and now this, and it just
Speaker 4: seems like each one is just more gargantuan and improbable
Speaker 4: and achievement than the last. But he at this point
Speaker 4: he can handle it with with you know, a dexterity
Speaker 4: that is near impossible that you can't you can't even
Speaker 4: think of too many contemporary filmmakers who could even try.
Speaker 2: To do something like The Odyssey.
Speaker 4: But I also think that it's a film of great
Speaker 4: ideas and and weight and and real personality. I mean,
Speaker 4: like this is a film you know that the time
Speaker 4: theme is is obviously important to this movie, and it's
Speaker 4: important to Nolan. You know, you have the connection, of
Speaker 4: course to Oppenheimer in having this this hero who has
Speaker 4: to make decisions on behalf of many people and and
Speaker 4: have to has to live with the weight of those decisions,
Speaker 4: has to live with mistakes or incorrect decisions that have
Speaker 4: horrible losses, and so the weight of that really hits
Speaker 4: you so hard in this movie. And time itself, of
Speaker 4: course has a weight I think about like one of
Speaker 4: my other favorite movies, intert of Nolan's Interstellar and and
Speaker 4: and my favorite part of that movie is all of
Speaker 4: the stuff on the planet in which time passes in
Speaker 4: the real world or on Earth a long time. So
Speaker 4: any minute you spend on this planet is going to
Speaker 4: be very costly to a mission that is already full
Speaker 4: of urgency because it's about, you know, saving the Earth,
Speaker 4: and it's so heartbreaking and so wrenching for that reason.
Speaker 4: And this movie has that feel to it of just like,
Speaker 4: you know, the amount of time that it has passed,
Speaker 4: how much has been lost, you know, the weight of
Speaker 4: everything is just so immense in this film. And and uh,
Speaker 4: and it's good to see, you know, a film of
Speaker 4: the scale feel personal and feel very much like a
Speaker 4: Christopher Nolan movie.
Speaker 2: And in you know, something.
Speaker 4: You can kind of talk about in relation to other
Speaker 4: things that he's done, because I think the Odyssey as
Speaker 4: a project, it almost seems too imposing for any you know,
Speaker 4: personality to attach itself to it, and.
Speaker 6: He goes beyond the Odyssey. He like being brings in
Speaker 6: Iliad too, talk about adding reps.
Speaker 7: Yeah, the Trojan Horse. And then, not to get too panatic,
Speaker 7: the Trojan Horse actually isn't in the Iliad after the
Speaker 7: timeline of the Iliad. But but the way that that
Speaker 7: when I first heard the Trojan Horse is going to
Speaker 7: be and I was like, well, they just throwing that
Speaker 7: in because it's a crowd pleaser. Everyone loves the Trojan Horse.
Speaker 7: But like the way it is used symbolically in this
Speaker 7: film without I don't want to give too much away,
Speaker 7: but just like the way, you know, from the first
Speaker 7: from the first scene to the last, it's such an
Speaker 7: important object and its meaning is so significant and changes
Speaker 7: over the course of the of the film. You know,
Speaker 7: I can't imagine, you know, this version of the Odyssey
Speaker 7: at least without the Trojan Wars in it.
Speaker 5: It's also just kind of an opportunity to, you know,
Speaker 5: take a part of the legend that I think everybody
Speaker 5: knows and give you a new perspective on it in
Speaker 5: terms of addressing kind of the practicalities of what it
Speaker 5: would be like to be in the Trojan Horse.
Speaker 4: Well, let me ask you this, when you think about
Speaker 4: the Trojan Horse. Every time we think about tuge horse
Speaker 4: or I think it's got wheels on it, just pushing
Speaker 4: it in there, you know what I mean. And I
Speaker 4: think that, like I think the fact that this you know,
Speaker 4: again I use the word weight. I mean, you know,
Speaker 4: I mean just the profound labor of a dragon, this
Speaker 4: damn thing you know from the beach behind the walls.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's you know, kind of is typical of
Speaker 4: this movie, in which everything feels like it's heavy and
Speaker 4: difficult and in a labor and something that takes a really,
Speaker 4: really long time.
Speaker 2: I love that symbolically for the movie.
Speaker 5: Also, you know, just dealing with like how did they
Speaker 5: go to the bathroom in the in the Trojan Horse.
Speaker 5: You know, it's this is a movie about about blood
Speaker 5: and sweat and mud and feces and.
Speaker 2: Holding it in a movie about holding it in.
Speaker 5: It's just it's it's a It's a movie that really
Speaker 5: focuses on the physicality of being human and kind of
Speaker 5: the terror of encountering things that are not human and
Speaker 5: don't have that physicality, and just a lot of these
Speaker 5: different set pieces. I'm particularly thinking about the sequence with
Speaker 5: with Circe, there's an an emphasis on bodies. I think
Speaker 5: that that takes this beyond sort of the usual exploration
Speaker 5: of of myth. I also pictured the Trojan horse on wheels,
Speaker 5: and I picture it as on all fours and thus
Speaker 5: a shape that would be a lot easier for a
Speaker 5: bunch of soldiers to pack into. Picture it made out
Speaker 5: of wood rather than metal, so a lot of easier
Speaker 5: to move around and picture it just you know, wheeled
Speaker 5: up to the gates of Troy. That's sort of the
Speaker 5: cartoony image you always see when people are portraying it is,
Speaker 5: you know, we hey, we got you a horse. We're
Speaker 5: going to wheel it up to the gates of the city,
Speaker 5: say thank you for the war, and here's a present
Speaker 5: for you, and then go away. As opposed to you know,
Speaker 5: where they find it, how they find it, what they
Speaker 5: do with it. It's all just like a fascinating take. And
Speaker 5: I guess what it comes down to is this is
Speaker 5: a movie full of decisions. You know, this is a
Speaker 5: movie that is not drawing easily or comfortably on other
Speaker 5: people's like ideas of what this myth are, and kind
Speaker 5: of to a fault, Nolan has taken a really shocking
Speaker 5: amount of flak for the costumed choices, for decor choices,
Speaker 5: production design, individual casting, costuming, language, the accents of the
Speaker 5: I like, it just seems like every day there's a
Speaker 5: new story that's Christopher Nolan defends the blank in the
Speaker 5: Odyssey or explains the choice to blank in the Odyssey,
Speaker 5: and it's like, who are all of these like Greek
Speaker 5: literature fans that are that are so damn mad about
Speaker 5: the details of the armor in this adaptation. But you know,
Speaker 5: it's it's just maybe.
Speaker 6: Just historical record, like acting like and then I appreciate.
Speaker 7: I think it announces that it's going to be tailored
Speaker 7: for you know, it's going to be sort of a
Speaker 7: not period specific when the moment it starts using the
Speaker 7: words dad and mom, Okay, yeah, this this is this
Speaker 7: is you know, contemporary language. Let's let's go with that.
Speaker 7: That's that's fine. Before we move on too quickly, Tasha,
Speaker 7: if you want to picture the Trojan horse with like
Speaker 7: a little fold out pouch, you should google the popcorn
Speaker 7: bucket very.
Speaker 5: You know, having having got the details from the movie
Speaker 5: of what it must have been like inside that horse
Speaker 5: and also from a C. S. Lewis tried to write
Speaker 5: a novel about the Sack of Troy, and the part
Speaker 5: that he finished is just what it was like to
Speaker 5: be inside the Trojan Horse, and it's much much like
Speaker 5: this movie. It's fascinating. I really really wish that he
Speaker 5: had finished that book, but he wasn't sure where to
Speaker 5: go with it. All that in mind, I don't think
Speaker 5: I would want to put food into a Trojan Horse
Speaker 5: and eat out of it at this point. Too many
Speaker 5: bad associations, so to speaking of associations here, like this
Speaker 5: is a story that is told via association, kind of
Speaker 5: one thing leading to another, jumping back and forth in time.
Speaker 5: You know, somebody telling a story, segueing to what the
Speaker 5: story was, like somebody re experiencing a memory, taking us
Speaker 5: to that memory and seeing what the experience was for
Speaker 5: the first time. It's a very nonlinear film. Was there
Speaker 5: anything in that that I don't know? Do you up
Speaker 5: or that you wanted more of at a different time?
Speaker 5: Like do you think this was the only order to
Speaker 5: tell the story in? How did you? How did you
Speaker 5: take the nonlinearity aspect of it? The biggest nolanism.
Speaker 7: Can I give you an example that I think, really,
Speaker 7: really works.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, it's.
Speaker 7: When Solemicus is visiting in Alais and Sparta and they
Speaker 7: do that that amazing build up to opening the gates
Speaker 7: of Troy and the soldiers rush in, and then he
Speaker 7: just goes, well, you know the rest of the story,
Speaker 7: which actually got a laugh for me at the moment,
Speaker 7: And then when they actually come back and show you
Speaker 7: the rest of the story, it's like, oh, this is
Speaker 7: why he's not telling us. He's alighting over what actually
Speaker 7: happens once those gates are open, for reasons, you know,
Speaker 7: maybe you know, I think several different ways you could
Speaker 7: read why he's he's withholding those details, but it's really
Speaker 7: effective to split up that sequence across not quite too
Speaker 7: opposite to the three hour movie, but fairly far far
Speaker 7: apart from one another.
Speaker 6: I wouldn't say that it doesn't work for me, and
Speaker 6: I certainly don't have an idea of, you know, how
Speaker 6: Nolan could have done it better, and I would never
Speaker 6: dare say as much. But maybe it was because it's
Speaker 6: so long before we actually get to Odysseus on Calypso's Island,
Speaker 6: that the length of time he had been there, the
Speaker 6: length of time that had just been like wasted away
Speaker 6: there didn't really translate. Maybe because we were jumping around
Speaker 6: so much. It felt like something we just really had
Speaker 6: to be told, you know, through dialogue. And that's probably,
Speaker 6: like I said, the best way to do that. I
Speaker 6: don't have a better way to do that. But because
Speaker 6: of how much we are jumping around, both in time
Speaker 6: and setting, like when we are supposed to feel like
Speaker 6: we have been in a place where our character has
Speaker 6: been in a place for a really long time, it's
Speaker 6: maybe a little harder to bring that across. Or the
Speaker 6: men on the beach waiting to sack Troy, you know,
Speaker 6: they're there for years, you know. And again, it's just
Speaker 6: something we have to be told. And it's not like
Speaker 6: I want to spend an hour on the like on
Speaker 6: that beach. But I think maybe sort of an artifact
Speaker 6: of this approach of jumping around so much is that
Speaker 6: you lose a little bit of that sense of languishing
Speaker 6: in some of these places, Like.
Speaker 2: I said, when that moment hits though, it hits so hard.
Speaker 4: Though I guess to defend the film a little bit,
Speaker 4: I think I think it gives you the impact that
Speaker 4: you that you know, and this is maybe a credit
Speaker 4: to you know, the scene itself when when when he
Speaker 4: when he's told and comes to realize how much time
Speaker 4: has passed, you know, you know, the performances. I think
Speaker 4: that's a really strong moment for met Damon. I feel
Speaker 4: like the impact of that time lost, you know, and
Speaker 4: that realization, that revelation is it has that kind of
Speaker 4: kick that you want it to have, so get it
Speaker 4: gets there, I guess.
Speaker 2: And as far as the other, you know, chronology, I
Speaker 2: think I think it's a it's.
Speaker 4: A film that where the structure of it and the
Speaker 4: chronology of it is all about like where can we
Speaker 4: place these these scenes in these flashbacks? Where where's the
Speaker 4: most effective spot for this stuff to land?
Speaker 2: You know? And uh and I think in that sense
Speaker 2: of poet is wildly effective.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I certainly agree that there's a feeling of Nolan
Speaker 5: kind of I really wonder what the process was like,
Speaker 5: like how many iterations the script went through in terms
Speaker 5: of figuring out that balance in terms of where things
Speaker 5: should go. But as it is, you know, we we
Speaker 5: have to space out some of the combat, so you know,
Speaker 5: there isn't one gigantic set piece like that, and then
Speaker 5: just a whole lot of talking, you know, even if
Speaker 5: it is talking to two shades and Tartarus. But regardless,
Speaker 5: I feel like the time signatures here are maybe one
Speaker 5: of the most obvious nolanisms of the movie. But I'm
Speaker 5: curious what else you see, as you know, signs that
Speaker 5: this is a Nolan movie, or thoughts on how this
Speaker 5: fits into Nolan's interests and kind of the direction his
Speaker 5: film career has been going. So we're going to take
Speaker 5: a short break and then we're going to come back
Speaker 5: with that.
Speaker 3: Why can't God speak in ways we understand?
Speaker 5: Who doesn't understand?
Speaker 3: Thunder fire?
Speaker 5: A child, smile, good harvest?
Speaker 3: Can you hide yourselves from us?
Speaker 8: Look?
Speaker 3: What's moving that cloud?
Speaker 5: Massing those birds? What's moving the water? So what do
Speaker 5: you think? I mean, reading interviews with him, he just
Speaker 5: kind of talks about how he needed something epic to
Speaker 5: follow up the scope of Oppenheimer, And I mean that
Speaker 5: almost seems like a pun. It seems like sort of
Speaker 5: a light thing that you throw at the media, to
Speaker 5: the media to cover up like why this is an obsession?
Speaker 5: But how have you parsed kind of the odyssey fitting
Speaker 5: into what Christopher Nolan cares about or the way Christopher
Speaker 5: Nolan tells stories I mattion this a.
Speaker 4: Little bit earlier, but it feels natural as a follow
Speaker 4: up to Oppenheimer, just in terms of these leaders having
Speaker 4: to make decisions that are going to cost the lives
Speaker 4: of many people, that are going to weigh heavily on
Speaker 4: their consciences, that are going to oftentimes be decisions that
Speaker 4: are going to be a decision between a bad outcome
Speaker 4: in a worse outcome, and where all of that ends
Speaker 4: up leaving you and leaving your soul at the end
Speaker 4: of the line. And so I think I think, you know,
Speaker 4: the two films, those two films kind of match up
Speaker 4: quite nicely. And then the other stuff just has to
Speaker 4: do with you know that though those kind of old
Speaker 4: Nolan themes we talked about to time being the most
Speaker 4: significant one. I guess it's weird that he and Richard
Speaker 4: link Ladd are two of those, those two of their
Speaker 4: you know, you don't necessarily think of them as as
Speaker 4: similar filmmakers, but they just keep coming back to that theater.
Speaker 4: They just love to explore time and and and uh,
Speaker 4: you know the impact that it has on people's uh,
Speaker 4: you know, souls basically.
Speaker 2: Uh, and you know, this is a film that really,
Speaker 2: you know, effectively, you know, it makes you kind of
Speaker 2: feel that way.
Speaker 7: I'm using this term somewhat reluctantly, and I certainly not
Speaker 7: the first person to draw comparison between Oppenheimer and this film,
Speaker 7: even on this podcast, But the sack of Troy seeing
Speaker 7: the ladder, the later version of the more drawn out
Speaker 7: version of being a little vague here if for people
Speaker 7: who have not seen the movie, Cannes Apheimer in a way.
Speaker 7: But they're most really apocalyptic, I mean just really just
Speaker 7: scenes of devastation. But also, you know, I think they're
Speaker 7: both scenes that kind of make you want to question,
Speaker 7: to humans had to conduct ourselves this way in the world?
Speaker 7: Is there really no other path forward than just having
Speaker 7: civilizations clash and have violence and death and might be
Speaker 7: what the ultimate determinant of what shapes the direction of
Speaker 7: the world. Where he's really dealing with very big themes here,
Speaker 7: But as Scott Scott's review for the Reveal, it's really
Speaker 7: good pointing out using also working on a very small scale,
Speaker 7: it's a very human drama at the same time. So
Speaker 7: and I guess maybe that's another connection too, is that
Speaker 7: it is there is sort of like, yeah, I think
Speaker 7: there is sort of an abiding interest in how these
Speaker 7: very big things play out in the lives of just
Speaker 7: one or two people.
Speaker 4: In a way you know, you talk about we talk
Speaker 4: about to the intimacy of scale. When you then get
Speaker 4: to the end of the the film and you'r and
Speaker 4: Odysseas is finally you know, has that really wonderful scene
Speaker 4: with his wife. I was it round me so much
Speaker 4: of the movie Sancho the Bailiff, which is which is
Speaker 4: another film where about a very long, tragic journey where
Speaker 4: family members are separated seemingly forever and find each other,
Speaker 4: you know, and and there's been so much loss and
Speaker 4: so much to kind of cry about, really, but it's
Speaker 4: also you know, it's just this incredibly transcendent moment as well,
Speaker 4: and it felt it felt so connected to that movie
Speaker 4: for me. So and certainly that's a small moment in
Speaker 4: a you know, in a sweeping epic, historical, historic tale.
Speaker 6: To return to what Keith was pointing about about the
Speaker 6: humanistic aspect of this being very Nolan esque. I don't
Speaker 6: know if any of you got to read Bilga Abiri's
Speaker 6: behind the scenes making of Piece of the Odyssey on Vulture.
Speaker 6: If you haven't, I highly recommend it. It's he got
Speaker 6: so much good stuff. One tiny thing that it points
Speaker 6: out that I never thought about is before this Nolan
Speaker 6: has never made a film to depict the supern natural.
Speaker 6: And you can take that in the context of you know,
Speaker 6: the monsters, the cyclops, the giants, whatnot. But also I
Speaker 6: think it's interesting to think about in how this film
Speaker 6: depicts or doesn't the gods. You know, we only really
Speaker 6: get FaceTime with one of the gods, Athena, and I
Speaker 6: won't spoil what it does with that character, but it
Speaker 6: does add some I guess, ambiguity to how you read
Speaker 6: her control over this narrative. And you know, the Odyssey
Speaker 6: is kind of famously a battle between gods, you know,
Speaker 6: Poseidon and Athena, and they are much more active in
Speaker 6: the narrative. And this movie, like it talks about the
Speaker 6: gods all the time, like they're being referenced constantly, but
Speaker 6: it always comes back to man's understanding of gods and
Speaker 6: it there I think there is a reading of this
Speaker 6: film where the gods don't even exist, you know, or
Speaker 6: it's it's faith, you know. And it's really interesting the
Speaker 6: way that Nolan layers in those different interpretations of what's happening,
Speaker 6: and it all does kind of center on the idea
Speaker 6: of this as a story about humans and what humans
Speaker 6: do to each other and what civilizations do to each
Speaker 6: other and to themselves. And I don't even have my
Speaker 6: mind wrapped fully around it yet because I'm a few
Speaker 6: hours off of seeing this film, but it's definitely something
Speaker 6: that I felt only he could tell this story this way.
Speaker 5: I was surprised at the use of what I mean
Speaker 5: there is there's definitely magic in this uh. In this movie,
Speaker 5: there's definitely the supernatural. Even if the gods are conceptual,
Speaker 5: the magic that turns men into pigs and then brings
Speaker 5: them back again is real. And you know, if you
Speaker 5: take elements like the psyclops and Skillo, which is such
Speaker 5: a very Christopher Nolan esque abstractness of a monster. I
Speaker 5: was a little shocked to see on screen, just because
Speaker 5: a really hard avoided trailers for this movie. I wanted
Speaker 5: to watch it on its own merits. I didn't want
Speaker 5: anything spoiled beforehand, so I didn't know what to expect,
Speaker 5: And there was a moment where I was like, you know,
Speaker 5: based on how he's handling the gods and the relationship
Speaker 5: with people, is there going to be nothing in this
Speaker 5: that couldn't be explained in real life. And the Psychops
Speaker 5: shows up on screen, I'm like, Okay, nope, we're definitely
Speaker 5: in the realm of myths and monsters here.
Speaker 6: The Cyclops is not named as Polyfemus the soldiers like,
Speaker 6: say he's the son of or say they think he
Speaker 6: calls out Poseidon's name, like in the credits, it's just
Speaker 6: the Cyclops, you know. The direct link to Poseidon is
Speaker 6: left up to interpretation.
Speaker 5: Oh sure, but I mean he's also fifteen foot.
Speaker 6: Well, it's a time of magic and monsters. That's what
Speaker 6: they tell us at the beginning of the movie, right.
Speaker 7: Is the time of apparent magic, Yes, which to me,
Speaker 7: like could read it is like maybe it's magic, maybe
Speaker 7: it's not, or magic can see versus the time we
Speaker 7: live in now, where magic is not something that we
Speaker 7: can see, which I think. I think it's interesting to
Speaker 7: phrase it that way.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think the ambiguity there is different and very deliberate.
Speaker 5: But god, that's just one of many many rabbit holes
Speaker 5: we could go down. I want to talk a little
Speaker 5: about the look of this movie. It's kind of got
Speaker 5: that like dark and dissaturated thing going on that has
Speaker 5: become popular in fantasy movies in particular over the last
Speaker 5: couple of decades, and there are moments in it that
Speaker 5: really work. Like the entire look of Tartarus I thought
Speaker 5: was amazing, and not to mention sort of the interpretation
Speaker 5: of how that sequence all goes and how it feels.
Speaker 5: But apart from that, it was the one thing that
Speaker 5: I was maybe a little back and forth on is
Speaker 5: just how kind of like dim and dingy, so much
Speaker 5: of this movie looks deliberately, and like the grubbiness and
Speaker 5: grime is certainly deliberate, the heaviness of the kind of
Speaker 5: the way the world hangs over Odysseus in most places,
Speaker 5: the way that lifts on Calypso's island, where everything is
Speaker 5: very bright and clean, and you know, she's a very
Speaker 5: pale woman with very blonde hair, wearing very white clothing.
Speaker 5: Everything is just lightened compared to a lot of the
Speaker 5: rest of the movie. What did you think about the
Speaker 5: look of this film?
Speaker 7: I mean, I'm a big fan of cinematographer Hoit Van Hoittaba,
Speaker 7: who shot the last few Nolan films. Shot Take a Tailor,
Speaker 7: Soldier Spy. I think I think this big breakthrough is
Speaker 7: let the right one in. I think it's just really
Speaker 7: good with dealing with those shadows and like sometimes you
Speaker 7: get these really amazing contrasts, as in this the Cyclops cave,
Speaker 7: where you know, light just disappears once the cave is sealed.
Speaker 7: I'm kind of struck by also the scenes communicating with
Speaker 7: the dead outside Hades or Oceantis. Just to look at that,
Speaker 7: like the black sand, like you know, you can clock
Speaker 7: it instantly. It's Iceland because no hustle in the world,
Speaker 7: nowhere else in the world books like that. But it
Speaker 7: does have this really other worldly feel to it as well.
Speaker 7: And I in the use of like just fire amongst
Speaker 7: this like mist in this was really effective too. Yeah.
Speaker 7: I think it's a gorgeous, loky film and I need
Speaker 7: I need to. I have not seen it yet on Imax.
Speaker 7: I'm seeing that on Imax in a couple of days.
Speaker 6: So yeah, I was just gonna say, we need to
Speaker 6: go around and say how each of us.
Speaker 4: Saw Tasha and I touched and I saw it on
Speaker 4: you're at that screening right the seventy it was seventy millimeter.
Speaker 4: It's how exciting, right, which you don't expect at this
Speaker 4: AMC theater that I didn't even know was equipped it,
Speaker 4: but they must have brought it in.
Speaker 7: I saw this closure day in seventy milimeters death theater
Speaker 7: looked at the literally.
Speaker 4: Problem is like maybe people aren't used to showing things
Speaker 4: on film because it was out of frame the entire way,
Speaker 4: or should I say they weren't. It wasn't centered, and
Speaker 4: so maybe you were getting the whole image, but it
Speaker 4: was unmasked and so the top chunk of the screen
Speaker 4: was just black.
Speaker 2: I was irritating.
Speaker 4: It took me literally twenty minutes before I was like, Okay,
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna make my piece of this because it
Speaker 4: was so irritating to watch.
Speaker 5: But we definitely we got the whole image. I just
Speaker 5: want to throw that out there, because you could actually
Speaker 5: see just like the bottom line of the image because.
Speaker 2: You were twitching. Were you not twitching?
Speaker 5: I was not twitching, but I could. I could hear
Speaker 5: people around me grumbling about it in the first minute
Speaker 5: or so, and I kind of had a moment of like, well,
Speaker 5: if we're getting part of the image cut off, this
Speaker 5: is a problem and we need to speak to somebody.
Speaker 5: And then I looked and I'm like, no, we're literally
Speaker 5: seeing where the image in that job would be.
Speaker 4: I mean I was a projectionist, you would center the frame,
Speaker 4: you would bring it up to where you would you
Speaker 4: probably have a little bit on the black on the bottom,
Speaker 4: a little black on the top.
Speaker 5: Sure, but this is a perfectionist note as opposed to
Speaker 5: this is a travesty. We we were getting imaged.
Speaker 4: It was It wasn't it was just it was an
Speaker 4: irritant But as you know, I'm glad that it's done
Speaker 4: in this format. And to kind of go back to
Speaker 4: the question about the about the look of this movie,
Speaker 4: what impressed me the most about it, you know, especially
Speaker 4: for a film with a lot that is going to
Speaker 4: have a lot of effects, is how physical a production
Speaker 4: that it feels like immensity of it feels like you know,
Speaker 4: intolerance or something.
Speaker 2: It's a boat. We always think about that to me, To.
Speaker 4: Me like I always remember, you know, the year when
Speaker 4: both when Master and Commander came out the same year
Speaker 4: as Pirates of the Caribbean, and thinking about the boats
Speaker 4: in those movies and how much Master Commander had just
Speaker 4: that unbelievable physical weight to it, and how how the
Speaker 4: impact that that has on you as a viewer, and
Speaker 4: I think I think you get a little bit you
Speaker 4: eat a lot of that here with the Odyssey of
Speaker 4: just of trying to even with all of these effects,
Speaker 4: trying to make it as physical a production as possible,
Speaker 4: in making the audience kind of feel the impact of that,
Speaker 4: because I think when you do need a lot of
Speaker 4: effects and you are dealing with mythical creatures and monsters
Speaker 4: and things that are not natural, you can kind of
Speaker 4: get lost into sort of digital environments. And this doesn't
Speaker 4: get lost in that at all.
Speaker 6: I did not see it on seventy millimeters, but I
Speaker 6: did see it on Imax laser, which was actually gorgeous. Like,
Speaker 6: I have no complaints about it, and I think for
Speaker 6: a film that is you know, as Tasha says, maybe
Speaker 6: a little dingy or dark by design, Like it never
Speaker 6: felt washed out or hard to see. To me. It
Speaker 6: always felt very purposeful. I mean, if we want to
Speaker 6: go back to historical accuracy, you know, a very brightly
Speaker 6: colored Odyssey would perhaps not be the most realistic one
Speaker 6: in terms.
Speaker 5: Of light lights like the in back rooms.
Speaker 6: Yeah, in both like lighting and production design and setting,
Speaker 6: you know, but it makes use of that darkness or
Speaker 6: the you know, monochromaticness at times in ways that feel
Speaker 6: purposeful and that makes them feel beautiful and not like
Speaker 6: a missed opportunity.
Speaker 5: I guess, well, there's a lot more to talk about
Speaker 5: in this movie, but we should move on to connections,
Speaker 5: and I think some of the things that I most
Speaker 5: want to delve into are things that would be interesting
Speaker 5: to bring up specifically in connection with Oh Brother or
Speaker 5: Art though, anything you guys want to make sure we
Speaker 5: talk about before we transition off just talking about the Odyssey.
Speaker 6: Well, Oh Brother, Art though, does have a dog, but
Speaker 6: it does not have the very best boy ever argos
Speaker 6: which they see pack the dogs, true, but they are
Speaker 6: no argos. So, Tasha, I sensed a little in our
Speaker 6: last episode. I sensed maybe a little skepticism toward the
Speaker 6: use of argos and an Odyssey is.
Speaker 5: But I loved it, not skepticism per se. I don't know,
Speaker 5: one hundred percent love the way it was handled in that,
Speaker 5: you know, I think of the Argus story as being
Speaker 5: about a dog that got the one thing that it
Speaker 5: wanted most, the one thing it was hanging on for,
Speaker 5: and the degree to which Argus, like I know, it's
Speaker 5: meant to be a very old dog is just waiting
Speaker 5: for his master to come home, and you know it's
Speaker 5: it's just the small reaction that tips Telemachus off to
Speaker 5: what he's seeing. But having Argust be so decrepit and
Speaker 5: getting kicked and stomped on and thrown on the dung heap,
Speaker 5: and then lying there on the dung heap apparently not
Speaker 5: being fed for god who knows how long, and then
Speaker 5: barely being alive to see Odussius coming home. Is it
Speaker 5: weird to say it was sadder than I necessary really
Speaker 5: wanted out of a movie that's expressly about, you know,
Speaker 5: the immense loss of human life and the immense suffering
Speaker 5: of this journey and the horse material.
Speaker 7: All I can say it's right there on the page.
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't disagree that it's it's very hard
Speaker 6: to see Argus treat it that way. That said, we
Speaker 6: see other dogs treated much much.
Speaker 5: Worse, fucking puppies off cliffs.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so you know it definitely I guess set the
Speaker 6: bar high slash low when it comes to dog endangerment sensitivities.
Speaker 6: But the payoff was it worked for me good.
Speaker 5: It is always interesting to see the you know, I
Speaker 5: know people have a soft spot for animals. I've got
Speaker 5: a soft spot for my own animals and for other
Speaker 5: people's animals. I am the kind of person that might
Speaker 5: go to a party and spend most of the time
Speaker 5: hanging out with a cat or the dog. But the
Speaker 5: vocal difference in the theater between several men get their
Speaker 5: heads bitten off while struggling and screaming for desperately for
Speaker 5: life versus a puppy gets hooked off a cliff, like
Speaker 5: the visceral noise in the theater when that happened, it
Speaker 5: should always remarkable. I don't recall any particular noise in
Speaker 5: the theater when the dog goes floating by underwater and
Speaker 5: no brother, where art thou? But that definitely takes a
Speaker 5: still place of comparison between the two. So maybe we
Speaker 5: should take a break and then come back with connections.
Speaker 3: We'll raise the sail, follow the southerly winds.
Speaker 7: History Hagamemnon's growing west on the known provisions route.
Speaker 3: It's got more mouths to feed. We'll find places at
Speaker 3: the limp Are you sure it's a risk that's followed
Speaker 3: Agamemnon long enough?
Speaker 2: But little luck and the right winds, we'll see some
Speaker 2: of the world still be on before Agamemnon.
Speaker 5: Now it's time for connections, when we bring these two
Speaker 5: films together and talk about all the things they have
Speaker 5: in common. I mean, starting.
Speaker 9: Fact that both yeah, epic journeys, like literal journeys, literal epics,
Speaker 9: you know, both about homecomings and about somebody struggling to
Speaker 9: get home against long odds.
Speaker 5: I will say that one kind of almost silly thing
Speaker 5: these two movies have in common is that I have
Speaker 5: no freaking sense whatsoever the geography involved, you know. I
Speaker 5: think in the Odyssey you feel that as kind of
Speaker 5: a physical weight, you know, you keep being told they're lost,
Speaker 5: the degree to which Urlacus emphasizes every time that ship
Speaker 5: sees land. He kind of turns to Odysseus and says,
Speaker 5: lucky bastard, because the chances of them finding land when
Speaker 5: they're at sea and in kind of uncharted waters is
Speaker 5: so high, Like they are hopelessly lost and don't know
Speaker 5: where they are. And we feel that in Oh Brother,
Speaker 5: there are points where I find myself just thinking, like
Speaker 5: I know, they're like running desperately across fields and you know,
Speaker 5: through byways, through towns, like wherever they can find themselves
Speaker 5: a car to steal or a pie to steal at
Speaker 5: the same time, I don't know how they end up,
Speaker 5: you know, traveling for days and days and days and
Speaker 5: still winding up coming up on the chain gang, which
Speaker 5: seems like the same chain gang. There is a sort
Speaker 5: of feeling of like, are they going in circles? Are
Speaker 5: we meant to feel they're going in circles? Is this
Speaker 5: an epic linear journey or is this just like are
Speaker 5: they are they wandering around completely lost? So I don't
Speaker 5: think that this is a like a deliberate or important
Speaker 5: thematic connection so much. Is just something I felt pretty
Speaker 5: viscerally in both movies, but with very different effects.
Speaker 2: Where are we Yeah, I guess they are stemied and no, brother,
Speaker 2: we're now in terms of you know, they have to
Speaker 2: get to their destiny before the dam wipes it out,
Speaker 2: uh so uh, but.
Speaker 4: But actually getting there, knowing where to go, having all
Speaker 4: these little obstacles in their way, some some so far
Speaker 4: off course that you you know that you do end
Speaker 4: up in you know, a similar situation is with Odysseus,
Speaker 4: where they're they're traveling and who knows what direction and
Speaker 4: to where, and you know, how how in the world
Speaker 4: are they going?
Speaker 2: To ever what direction even is home, but they just
Speaker 2: keep kind of traveling until they find it. I guess
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 6: You mean on account of their obstacles, Uh, Scott, Yes,
Speaker 6: But oh brother has a really like specific rhythm of
Speaker 6: because like it, we are in a like a fairly
Speaker 6: small geographic space, so we're kind of like, rather than
Speaker 6: going from island to island like in the Odyssey, we're
Speaker 6: just kind of like going from incident to incident. What
Speaker 6: was really interesting to me to know it was the
Speaker 6: bonfire sequences at night when they're like camping out at night,
Speaker 6: and there was like kind of this consistent returning to
Speaker 6: this same type of scene of them around the fire,
Speaker 6: and it's sort of the reset between the antics and
Speaker 6: the eventful things that happen, you know, and there's some
Speaker 6: really nice just hanging around the fire, especially once they
Speaker 6: meet up with Tommy and he's singing and stuff. It's
Speaker 6: not an exact parallel to like Odysseus's men on the boat,
Speaker 6: like going from location to location, but just in terms
Speaker 6: of like the rhythm of the film, it creates kind
Speaker 6: of a wave almost, you know, or peaks and valleys
Speaker 6: of action and rest, action and rest that works really
Speaker 6: well for the pace of a journey.
Speaker 5: One of the parallels here that I kind of find
Speaker 5: interesting is that both of these journeys are complicated in
Speaker 5: a way by our protagonist's choices, like a departure. That
Speaker 5: I found really interesting in Nolan's Odyssey is that when
Speaker 5: they blind the Cyclops in order to escape, it's very
Speaker 5: much presented as you know, a necessity for survival. They
Speaker 5: do what they have to do, and Odysseus doesn't turn
Speaker 5: back and give a false name to the Cyclops in
Speaker 5: kind of a spirit of treachery and trickery. You know,
Speaker 5: he doesn't brag about you know who has blinded you
Speaker 5: and tell him it was no man. There's a lack
Speaker 5: of hubris there that you know. To me, one of
Speaker 5: the things that kind of defines that beat of the
Speaker 5: Odyssey is Odysseus's like pride in the gambit that he
Speaker 5: came up with, and he in a way he's mocking
Speaker 5: this creature that he's just blinded. Nolan just kind of
Speaker 5: drops that aside. We get a pretty strong sense of
Speaker 5: hubris from Ulysses Everett McGill and his confidence that you know,
Speaker 5: he doesn't need book learning to practice law. He doesn't
Speaker 5: need experience to sell bibles. He also does not recognize
Speaker 5: a threat when it's standing in front of him, having
Speaker 5: just clubbed his compatriot upside the hit and coming for him.
Speaker 5: He is a very hubristic character, and he's set upon
Speaker 5: this particular epic journey through fault of his own, you know,
Speaker 5: through the bad choices that he made. So I feel
Speaker 5: like that's something that a brother has in common with
Speaker 5: kind of the classic version of Odysseus, but maybe not
Speaker 5: with the version here. I'm not sure what Nolan's Odysseus
Speaker 5: could have done differently in order to not anger the
Speaker 5: gods in this case, except you know, die and get eaten.
Speaker 7: And I think in Nolan's he's smart more than Wiy
Speaker 7: like he he comes with the plans and schemes, but
Speaker 7: he's not really trying to trick anybody out of spite
Speaker 7: or you know they're there. It is purely an escape,
Speaker 7: whereas in I think in the in Homer there's certainly
Speaker 7: more of a tatting quality to it. In both versions,
Speaker 7: I ended up feeling kind of bad for the Cyclops.
Speaker 7: To be honest, he just do its.
Speaker 2: Thing, and you do you do?
Speaker 7: In the version two oh no, no, no, no no,
Speaker 7: I mean in both Homer and and OK, yeah no
Speaker 7: no you feel bad about it, no reason, I.
Speaker 6: Mean if you, if you do feel bad at all,
Speaker 6: it's because John Goodman does have a weird ability to
Speaker 6: like bring pathos to even like horrible characters. But it's
Speaker 6: it's pretty tough in this case, I think too.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 5: I don't feel any sense of pathos for him here,
Speaker 5: And in part it's because the character himself isn't trying
Speaker 5: to evoke it, Like he seems very pleased, you know,
Speaker 5: with with his plans. He seems very pleased with his
Speaker 5: physical superiority at lowering these two yahoo's out into the
Speaker 5: uh into the field, getting free extra dinner out of
Speaker 5: them second lunch, I guess, and then clubbing them upside
Speaker 5: the head and taking their money. Like there's nothing that
Speaker 5: we get from him to indicate like a sadness or
Speaker 5: a loss that would that would excuse these behaviors. This
Speaker 5: is just what he does, and he seems pretty pleased
Speaker 5: with it. So I can't sympathize with the cyclops here.
Speaker 5: I feel like Nolan's cyclops is unknowable, you know, he is,
Speaker 5: He's not a large man. He is a creature, a
Speaker 5: creature of like unknown provenance that does come across as
Speaker 5: something that might have been like sired by a god
Speaker 5: on who knows what. And I feel sympathy for anything
Speaker 5: that has its eye poked out with a pointy, flaming spear,
Speaker 5: because that sounds terrible. But again, I really can't fault
Speaker 5: the the ithacns the soldiers for doing that because they
Speaker 5: don't want to get killed and eaten.
Speaker 6: I was talking last week about how watching O Brother
Speaker 6: through the context of the Odyssey, it sort of primes
Speaker 6: you to find like sort of like little micro connections
Speaker 6: that may or may not be purposeful. But talking about
Speaker 6: the cyclops, one of those I thought of here was
Speaker 6: the like the soldiers escaping by pretending to be she
Speaker 6: I felt an echo of that in the Clan rally
Speaker 6: scene where Big Dan reappears with only one eye cut
Speaker 6: cut out of his mask. But that are our trio.
Speaker 6: You know, they steel robes, so they are disguising themselves
Speaker 6: to try to hide from the cyclops there.
Speaker 4: So you know they classic is a classic physical comedy
Speaker 4: trope of like shrubs kind.
Speaker 2: Of like shivering as they're changing.
Speaker 4: Into the Uh into the garb of the person that
Speaker 4: they've just taken off of someone else.
Speaker 2: Good stuff.
Speaker 4: Maybe this is a nice window into talking about this
Speaker 4: if we were talking about you know, escape and you
Speaker 4: know what options they really have in terms of even
Speaker 4: trying to negotiate a situation like that. But we haven't
Speaker 4: talked about one of my favorite sequences in all of
Speaker 4: the Odyssey, which is the one with Samantha Morton as
Speaker 4: uh was Circe, is that the name is yeah and
Speaker 4: just and just about and how that is how you
Speaker 4: get to a point where Odysse's can actually talk and
Speaker 4: negotiate and advocate for his men in a way that
Speaker 4: he doesn't in any other situation. Like he's a different
Speaker 4: kind of leadership. And there's something kind of touching I
Speaker 4: guess about his acknowledgment of her perspective and what she's
Speaker 4: kind of going through and being able to kind of
Speaker 4: them being able to kind of see each other and
Speaker 4: kind of come to this moment of grace together.
Speaker 2: It's a nice shift from you know, other conflicts I
Speaker 2: guess that we have in them in this story.
Speaker 5: Shout out to Madelon Miller's novel Circe, which is terrific.
Speaker 5: Read it recently for the first time, not in relationship
Speaker 5: to this movie at all, but just because it's been
Speaker 5: on my tea read for a very long time. It
Speaker 5: will make you see Circe very differently, and in my mind,
Speaker 5: this version of the character is more or less that
Speaker 5: version of the character. It explains a lot about her
Speaker 5: behavior way that moment when the soldiers are asked to
Speaker 5: leave their armor and weapons out back and they look
Speaker 5: out back and just see a field of slowly disappearing
Speaker 5: into the grass and disintegrating like an army's worth of
Speaker 5: arms and weapons, and then they do it anyway. Man,
Speaker 5: What a moment. But talking about Circe kind of brings
Speaker 5: us to a point that I really wanted to explore here,
Speaker 5: which is, in talking about the Odyssey, we just really
Speaker 5: haven't talked about Antonas. Robert Pattinson's character, kind of the
Speaker 5: lead of the suitors, certainly the biggest coward among them,
Speaker 5: but also kind of the biggest leader, perpetually trying to
Speaker 5: direct traffic to get other people to do all the work,
Speaker 5: making sure that he's taking the least risk. Just a
Speaker 5: real snake of a man, and seemingly the only one
Speaker 5: of the suitors to come to Penelope and try to
Speaker 5: kind of clozen her into believing that he's he's just
Speaker 5: a nice guy, y'all. His parallel, I suppose in Oh Brother,
Speaker 5: to the degree that that there is one, isn't Waldrip,
Speaker 5: who you know, is the is almost a background character.
Speaker 5: You know, he's a function of the plot, but apart
Speaker 5: from being able to best Ulysses in a Woolworth's punching contest,
Speaker 5: he's just not that much of a character. I kind
Speaker 5: of wonder if a better parallel for him is the sheriff,
Speaker 5: who is kind of the big central villain of the
Speaker 5: movie to the degree that it has or needs one,
Speaker 5: And he is a character who seems, you know, more
Speaker 5: physically brave and confident, but also is you know, using
Speaker 5: other people to get his way, is very much uninterested
Speaker 5: in the law or what other people want so much
Speaker 5: as he gets to destroy things. He just goes around
Speaker 5: burning down people's barns in order to flush people out,
Speaker 5: which you know, leaves to a lot of damn, we're
Speaker 5: in a tight spot, so you know there are there
Speaker 5: are kind of a lot of sub villains in both
Speaker 5: of these movies.
Speaker 4: Well, the sheriff is the sheriff is neither a suitor
Speaker 4: nor bonafide thought Sheriff nice. Maybe so Waldrop is I
Speaker 4: think our our suitor here. I'm glad you brought brought
Speaker 4: up Pattinson because he's kind I don't know if the
Speaker 4: scene's back in that sphere, back in that back home,
Speaker 4: really have the Papa do without that character. He's a true,
Speaker 4: truly kind of juicy villain that we're just we kind
Speaker 4: of cannot wait that we really wait an entire movie
Speaker 4: to get his glorious come up. And so I think
Speaker 4: I was impressed by him in this in this film,
Speaker 4: I guess he. I guess he was inspired by James
Speaker 4: Woods's character in Casino, which.
Speaker 7: Is kind of like, all right, he does not the
Speaker 7: one scene where he makes a pretty good case for
Speaker 7: himself too, which he immediately underminds by going to mac
Speaker 7: on Miaco's character. But but he does, you know, he
Speaker 7: does put a pretty persuasive argument out there for for
Speaker 7: why he should be the one.
Speaker 5: Yeah, if only he wasn't just such a weasel. And
Speaker 5: you know, she's seen Penalope, has seen a lot more
Speaker 5: of him than we have, and possibly knows that he's
Speaker 5: a weasel. It's possible that he's come around and tried
Speaker 5: this before, he's tried other things, or she's just you know,
Speaker 5: paying attention and has seen like how he operates. You know,
Speaker 5: this is somebody who's perfectly willing to dump a dog
Speaker 5: on a dung heap, but then is coming around, you know,
Speaker 5: with his his nice guyline. So it's pretty obvious who
Speaker 5: he is, and it's pretty obvious how she feels about
Speaker 5: kind of all of them collectively.
Speaker 2: And yet yet not great vetting of Mia Goth What happened,
Speaker 2: what happened there? What broke down in the hiring process.
Speaker 5: Well, it's very hard to check the internet to see
Speaker 5: if they've you know, been posting pictures of themselves with
Speaker 5: the suitors, you know, at the beach when they're sneaking
Speaker 5: around on their days off.
Speaker 7: I think one way to talk about one thing we
Speaker 7: want to talk about here is a casside of Travis
Speaker 7: Scott as the bart who gets the first line of
Speaker 7: Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey and and uh. Nolan has said
Speaker 7: it's because he wanted to tie you know, a very
Speaker 7: current oral tradition, which which is hip hop and rap,
Speaker 7: with the very old oral tradition, which is the or
Speaker 7: tradition from which the Odyssey emerged. I think that's a
Speaker 7: really smart and well done without being overdone. He's not
Speaker 7: making he's not making the Americ equivalent of of Hamilton
Speaker 7: or anything.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 7: But we kind of get that in in O Brother,
Speaker 7: Where art Thou too? Where we have all these these
Speaker 7: folk traditions that are I guess you can say it's
Speaker 7: kind of being the equivalent of written down in the
Speaker 7: sense that they're recorded, but they're being passed around. They're
Speaker 7: becoming a shared culture for everyone in this region, much
Speaker 7: as like these stories of Odysseus and and the fall
Speaker 7: of Troy are becoming widespread in a way, you know,
Speaker 7: even without a disease's presence there. I guess he's in
Speaker 7: a way he's mass communication.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 5: And he's also drawn on, you know, mass communication otherwise,
Speaker 5: you know, because he is telling he is not telling
Speaker 5: the tale of the king of this place. He's telling
Speaker 5: the tale of the wile Odysseus, who who ended the
Speaker 5: Trojan War. You know, this is very clearly a story
Speaker 5: that's been passed around a lot already, to the point
Speaker 5: where mentalais it just kind of says, you know, you already,
Speaker 5: you already know this story. You've already heard this story
Speaker 5: because the assumption is like this is the song that
Speaker 5: the birds are singing. Everybody's heard it, of course, so
Speaker 5: you know, we we, as I said in the first half,
Speaker 5: we have this tale that has preceded him home. And
Speaker 5: it's the closest thing to mass media we have because
Speaker 5: it's it's everywhere. It's in other kingdoms, it's in other
Speaker 5: king halls. And yet we have the moment where Penelope
Speaker 5: hears it starting up again, and it's just like, no,
Speaker 5: not that story. I'm tired of hearing and being reminded
Speaker 5: that my husband isn't here by hearing this story about
Speaker 5: how smarty is that everybody's telling all the time.
Speaker 6: You know, Odysseus's journey has been, you know, being told
Speaker 6: in all of these songs that our reference and you know,
Speaker 6: sort of the odyssey itself is an epic poem, is
Speaker 6: you know, kind of a big song in a way.
Speaker 6: But if you think about it, Man of Constant Sorrow
Speaker 6: is kind of like a little Odyssey in micro and
Speaker 6: its lyrics. You know, I've did farewell to Old Kentucky,
Speaker 6: the place where I was born and raised. For six years,
Speaker 6: I've been in trouble, no pleasure here on earth. I'll
Speaker 6: find this world. I'm bound to ramble. I don't have
Speaker 6: all the lyrics up in front of me because it
Speaker 6: crashed my computer when I tried to do that. But
Speaker 6: you see what I'm going for here.
Speaker 5: You know, I got no friends help me because they
Speaker 5: have all died.
Speaker 7: But along the journey you're the podcaster.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so it all just it goes back to what
Speaker 6: I said last week about oh brother art, those sort
Speaker 6: of strongest connection to the Odyssey outside of all the
Speaker 6: little plot elements, is this idea of tales of men's
Speaker 6: childs and tribulations being passed down in spoken or sung form.
Speaker 6: And you know, the soggy bottom boys our bards of this,
Speaker 6: even if one of them happens to be our hero too.
Speaker 5: I feel like, in addition to that, you know, we're
Speaker 5: running along, as we so often are when we're talking
Speaker 5: about big monumental films that we have strong feelings about,
Speaker 5: we should just mention the degree to which both of
Speaker 5: these movies deal with children and legacy. You know, the
Speaker 5: idea of who is the next generation, how do they
Speaker 5: remember us, what do they know about us? How much
Speaker 5: of it is true? How much of it is legend.
Speaker 5: How do they feel about us? You know, both of
Speaker 5: these films tap into that pretty heavily, and both of
Speaker 5: them do kind of contend with faith and religion and
Speaker 5: how humanity interacts with gods, what they get out of
Speaker 5: that relationship, how different that relationship is in Foxholes, as
Speaker 5: it were. You know, when people are in danger, they
Speaker 5: see religion as very different. And I think especially in
Speaker 5: No Brother, there's sort of an ongoing feeling that, you know,
Speaker 5: because of the depression the privation that people are living in,
Speaker 5: they're living in a constant sort of place of danger,
Speaker 5: and so they're drawing on all of this old gospel
Speaker 5: movies in sorrow or constant sorrow. But I feel like
Speaker 5: the one thing we really need to explore before we
Speaker 5: call it a day an end to this epic journey
Speaker 5: of ours, is the degree to which both of these
Speaker 5: movies deal with ends of eras Keith, you added this
Speaker 5: to the connections list pretty late, and it does underline
Speaker 5: the fact that we really haven't talked about the kind
Speaker 5: of like big final theme of the Odyssey. So I'm
Speaker 5: curious what you're thinking about how both of these movies
Speaker 5: touch on the ends of eras well.
Speaker 7: We'll start with their brother or art that which which is.
Speaker 7: I thought, you know, one thing I think about it
Speaker 7: is you have the flood that sort of like eliminates
Speaker 7: a whole you know, a whole area in the name
Speaker 7: of progress, in the name of bringing electricity. And we
Speaker 7: see at the end we see lissies walking by a
Speaker 7: billboard about this this whole new age that's coming in.
Speaker 7: But it kind of goes a little bit beyond that
Speaker 7: as well. I think one thing that's doing with music
Speaker 7: is there's this you know, tremendous appetite for old timy music,
Speaker 7: right and it's like the last moment when this stuff
Speaker 7: is is just going to be you know, an oral
Speaker 7: tradition or like passed out a folk tradition passed around people.
Speaker 7: It becomes sort of pop culture in a way. I
Speaker 7: think we're we've watched, I mean, we've we've laughed a
Speaker 7: couple of lines about the like the weird mass communicating
Speaker 7: the line. But but it is going to change everything
Speaker 7: in terms of like how we consume art, what you know,
Speaker 7: whether or not art is you know, confined to a
Speaker 7: certain region too, like this could you know this is
Speaker 7: a regional hit? But but soon you know, with the
Speaker 7: airplace and like this could be a national hit as well.
Speaker 7: I mean, the very fact that we're talking about, you know,
Speaker 7: we're talking about the soundtrack becoming this this passed around
Speaker 7: cultural phenomenon is is sort of like what happens in
Speaker 7: the film itself in a way where this this these
Speaker 7: specific cultures get you know, recorded and passed around, and
Speaker 7: also like you know, it leads a tremendous mixing of
Speaker 7: cultures as well. I think there's a little bit of
Speaker 7: optimism at the end of Our Brother War at that,
Speaker 7: whereas I think at the end of Nolan's the Odyssey
Speaker 7: they're just really not h and I really kind of
Speaker 7: want a tiptoe around the spoiler, the spoilerness of it all,
Speaker 7: but directly the right to what we've been talking about
Speaker 7: about the oral tradition and whether or not what is
Speaker 7: passed aroung orally you know, what's written down and what's
Speaker 7: like going on in various cultures at various points when
Speaker 7: when what when writing versus the orld tradition dominates over
Speaker 7: the other. I think it's just really interesting stuff in there.
Speaker 7: I think we really both these films leave their characters
Speaker 7: on the cusp of new eras and with a lot
Speaker 7: of uncertainty and but at least a little bit I
Speaker 7: think of optimism and a Brother were art, though.
Speaker 5: I feel like with a Brother the end of an
Speaker 5: era that we're seeing is, you know, the end of
Speaker 5: an era of poverty and separation of you know, the
Speaker 5: distance across the state being a tremendous, unsurpassable distance that
Speaker 5: takes days and days to transit an onto a more
Speaker 5: modern era. You know, the advent of electricity is going
Speaker 5: to be a good thing, and eventually the depression is
Speaker 5: going to end politically, at least, you know, the the
Speaker 5: return of Pappy does not suggest a whole lot of
Speaker 5: reform going to be going on and that people are
Speaker 5: going to have a better time of it, but we
Speaker 5: know happier days are ahead.
Speaker 8: With the Odyssey, I see Odysseus saying that this is
Speaker 8: a tragedy that the era, you know, the era of
Speaker 8: Zeus's law has ended. But this movie doesn't give me
Speaker 8: a whole lot of respect for Zeus's law. This law
Speaker 8: is presented, at least by Odysseus as a kind of
Speaker 8: civil and an understanding between people, you know, for truth
Speaker 8: and generosity.
Speaker 5: It feels like a very political message, to be a
Speaker 5: very modern political message, specifically about you know, when you
Speaker 5: cannot trust people to act in a civil manner, when
Speaker 5: you can't trust your leaders to tell the truth, when
Speaker 5: you can't trust people to not be corrupt, to not
Speaker 5: steal everything they can get their hands on, what does
Speaker 5: that leave us? Like? Who are we? Who are we
Speaker 5: as a civilization? That's what I see that movie ultimately asking.
Speaker 5: But I do struggle a little bit to get that
Speaker 5: from the end of Zeus's law, which seems to be
Speaker 5: a law that forbids driving thieves out of your house.
Speaker 5: You know that that forbids being even slightly rude to
Speaker 5: people who come into your house and live there for
Speaker 5: three years, demanding that you feast, that you throw feats
Speaker 5: for them every night.
Speaker 7: But self is a corruption of law or zenia, to
Speaker 7: use the Greek word.
Speaker 5: And yet it seems like Zeus's law allows for that
Speaker 5: form of corruption but doesn't allow for anybody to fight
Speaker 5: back against it. So that's where I get a little
Speaker 5: confused about exactly why it's the tragedy that we're ending
Speaker 5: this particular era. We're ending an era that puts the
Speaker 5: suitors on the right side of the law and puts
Speaker 5: the rightful King of Ithaca on the wrong side of
Speaker 5: the law.
Speaker 7: But the ideals are good. I mean, the founding principles
Speaker 7: are not just good, they're noble.
Speaker 5: Agreed, the principles are noble. You know, honesty in politics
Speaker 5: is noble. Not being a klansman is pretty noble. Not
Speaker 5: being pappy either also quite noble. There's a lot of
Speaker 5: illustration of how to do things wrong in both of
Speaker 5: these movies, for society, for individuals, for households, for parents,
Speaker 5: for people on epic journeys. I wish there was a
Speaker 5: little more in both of them in terms of illustration
Speaker 5: of how to do things right.
Speaker 7: I think it's interesting we're finding that ambiguity here too.
Speaker 7: I think there's a lot of ambiguity. It runs runs
Speaker 7: through both films, and maybe that's like the final connection
Speaker 7: to like, these are not films that necessarily give you
Speaker 7: clear senses of of there's that there's not solid black
Speaker 7: and white morality in either of these. You know, Odysseus
Speaker 7: is I think we're coming away thinking Odysseus is a
Speaker 7: good man. But that's kind of in spite of all
Speaker 7: we see him do right. I mean, there's there's a
Speaker 7: whole death kind of trails him, and I would not necessarily.
Speaker 7: I might look up to him, but I wouldn't I
Speaker 7: want to be on the same ship with him. That
Speaker 7: doesn't work out well. And and perhaps the same could
Speaker 7: be true Ulysses. I don't know what the next chapter
Speaker 7: of ulysses life is there in In in the South,
Speaker 7: but I guess I'm hopeful for both.
Speaker 4: That's why both movies end with the end Ellipses question mark.
Speaker 7: Overturn in.
Speaker 5: You know, maybe the big difference between them is in
Speaker 5: the end, Odysseus judges himself harshly for what he's done,
Speaker 5: for what he's lost, and for what he feels has
Speaker 5: been lost through him, and Ulysses seems perfectly happy with
Speaker 5: the way things have come out. You know, maybe it's
Speaker 5: just a question of how self aware they are of
Speaker 5: the harm that they've done, and how determined they are
Speaker 5: to see themselves in the light that others might see them.
Speaker 5: Maybe there is an illustration of how to do things well,
Speaker 5: and if it's criticize yourself too harshly and send yourself
Speaker 5: into exile, at least that's better than just smugly saying
Speaker 5: well you know now I'm very clearly bonafide. I don't
Speaker 5: know if you want to fact check Scott on how
Speaker 5: these two movies? And you can find Oh Brother, Where
Speaker 5: Art Thou? Available on DVD and Blu Ray, It's streaming
Speaker 5: on the Criterion, and it's widely available for digital rental.
Speaker 5: And The Odyssey is in theaters. Now we'll be right
Speaker 5: back with your Next Picture Show. Finally, it's time to
Speaker 5: recommend a film or film related item that compliments this
Speaker 5: set of episodes. We call it your Next Picture Show
Speaker 5: in the hopes that it'll put some interesting choices on
Speaker 5: your radar. Keith, what do you have for us?
Speaker 7: There's a very easy, very fine supplement to watch if
Speaker 7: you really enjoy Oh Brother, We're Out though, and specifically
Speaker 7: the music of Oh Brother, We're at There, which is
Speaker 7: a concert film directed by Nick Dabb and are you
Speaker 7: know the reliable team of Chris Hedshist and Da Pinnabaker
Speaker 7: called Down from the Mountain, which fairly straightforwardly but effectively
Speaker 7: films a concert performance at the Ryman Auditorium, former home
Speaker 7: of the Grand Ole Opry in Nashville, Tennessee, And you're
Speaker 7: going to see you know, it includes a lot of
Speaker 7: people from the soundtrack and a lot of the songs
Speaker 7: from the soundtrack, but also some people there aret on
Speaker 7: the soundtrack and some songs that aren't on the soundtrack.
Speaker 7: It is, you know, it's it's just it's great. It's
Speaker 7: a great concert of this, of this, of this music.
Speaker 7: The the filmmaking is not flashy, but it's it's very
Speaker 7: you know, it's very flat on the wallagy might expect
Speaker 7: from that team. There's a moment that always stuck with
Speaker 7: me though, that has that's sort of like between between
Speaker 7: acts and it's Emmy Lou Harris backstage and she's singing
Speaker 7: one of her own songs, I think acapella, and she
Speaker 7: is completely captivating and it's sort of like, you know,
Speaker 7: it makes you aware of the performer is performing something
Speaker 7: that the effect to have his audience or they're not
Speaker 7: not always on the same page necessarily because she's she's
Speaker 7: you know, a beautiful voice, beautiful song, and about midway
Speaker 7: through she's totally cuts off because she has sort of
Speaker 7: this pre smartphone device that gives baseball score updates and
Speaker 7: she's just really excited about some updated What are you doing,
Speaker 7: You're you're you're breaking the spell aarush, but yeah, I'd recommend.
Speaker 7: I definitely recommend that film. If you want a little
Speaker 7: bit more of that O Brother Worret, they'll.
Speaker 5: Feel absolutely incredible. Thank you so much for that. That's
Speaker 5: it for this edition of The Next Picture Show, Genevieve,
Speaker 5: Can you tell us about our next pairing?
Speaker 6: Well? With the summer movie season winding down in Hollywood,
Speaker 6: we are also clocking out next week for just a
Speaker 6: little more time in the sun, but we'll be back
Speaker 6: the week after that, and we're cooking up a culinary
Speaker 6: pairing that will surely earn us three stars in Michelin,
Speaker 6: five stars on Apple Podcasts, and a James Beard Award.
Speaker 6: In his wonderful memoir Kitchen Confidential, Anthony Mordain referenced his
Speaker 6: humble beginnings in Provincetown, where he cut his teeth as
Speaker 6: a dishwasher and lin cook and a small restaurant while
Speaker 6: getting into all sorts of mischief. That formative piece of
Speaker 6: his life has inspired Tony, a lively newcoming of age
Speaker 6: film by Matt Johnson, the director of BlackBerry and Nirvana,
Speaker 6: the band of the show the movie. Before his death
Speaker 6: in twenty eighteen, Bourdain had cited the Pixar classic Ratitude
Speaker 6: as one of the best films ever made about the
Speaker 6: restaurant business, reserving special praise for how well it understood
Speaker 6: the passion and protocols of the kitchen. So on our
Speaker 6: next set of episodes, we'll look at Ratitude and Tony
Speaker 6: and decide who's the least chaotic chef, an aspirational rat
Speaker 6: or a skirt chasing college student on summer break.
Speaker 5: For now, we welcome your feedback on Oh Brother, Where
Speaker 5: art thou? The Odyssey, and anything else film related you'd
Speaker 5: like to talk about. Email us at comments at next
Speaker 5: pictureshow dot net, or leave us a voicemail at seven
Speaker 5: seven three two three four nine seven three zero. Before
Speaker 5: we close out this week's episode, where can we find
Speaker 5: everyone these days? Genevieve, let's start with you.
Speaker 6: I continue to be the TV editor at Vulture, mostly
Speaker 6: behind the scenes, and I continue to park on Blue
Speaker 6: Sky at Genevieve Koski and occasionally post some completely non
Speaker 6: film or TV related content on my Instagram. So if
Speaker 6: you want to see what my garden or dogs are
Speaker 6: up to, go there, Scott.
Speaker 2: I'm just looking up.
Speaker 4: What's the last time we've gotten an original?
Speaker 2: Genevieve costumes. And it's been seven months, so you've gotten something.
Speaker 4: But but but maybe maybe maybe maybe a little bit
Speaker 4: more powerful. The impact is powerful when it happens. You
Speaker 4: can find me mostly at the Reveal, the newsletter that
Speaker 4: I write with Keith Phipps. That's the Reveal Dot film.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna by way of it hasn't happened yet by
Speaker 4: but I'm gonna will myself to do a ranked list
Speaker 4: of Christopher Nolan films for the newsletter next week.
Speaker 2: So I have to do it. So I have to.
Speaker 4: It will have already been It's you've already seen it.
Speaker 4: Well you have been there. But but me saying it,
Speaker 4: I'm speaking into existence now do.
Speaker 5: You're pulling out Tyresius predicting the future?
Speaker 2: I'm good.
Speaker 4: You just want me in New York Times, Vulture, Guarding,
Speaker 4: and other fine publications. And I met on Blue Sky
Speaker 4: at Scott Tobias Tush Robinson.
Speaker 5: Oh you can find me over at Vulture, still writing
Speaker 5: about Game Changer, the Dropout Show, which I love so
Speaker 5: very very dearly, and occasionally popping up on Polygon, where
Speaker 5: I just reviewed Moana. So if you believe Scott, and
Speaker 5: I want to know why I hate Moana so much.
Speaker 5: I don't hate Malana so much, but you can find
Speaker 5: out there. Also July brought the release of the Criterion
Speaker 5: edition of The Crying Game, with an essay by yours
Speaker 5: truly about Neil Jordan and the history of this movie
Speaker 5: and its complicated reception, shall we say in Ireland and
Speaker 5: the UK versus it's more straightforward and certainly very influential
Speaker 5: reception in America. Very very interesting history of this movie
Speaker 5: and very interesting taking a big deep dive into the
Speaker 5: things that Neil Jordan has said about it over the
Speaker 5: course of more than thirty years of release. So you
Speaker 5: can find that essay online at Criterion dot com. You
Speaker 5: can also find it in the liner notes of the
Speaker 5: actual edition of the movie, which I highly recommend revisiting
Speaker 5: or watching if you haven't seen it already. Keith, where
Speaker 5: can we find you?
Speaker 7: Tasha? I had to ask that, and I'm sorry. I
Speaker 7: apologize in advance, but after I read this essay, well,
Speaker 7: I know all I need to know about the Crying Game.
Speaker 5: I mean, I know all there is to know about
Speaker 5: the Crying Game. It turns out it's really pretty simple.
Speaker 5: So yeah, probably you will, I mean now, and you
Speaker 5: need to see the movie as well, and honestly, if
Speaker 5: you see the movie, you might know all there is
Speaker 5: to know about the Crying Game. I'm just a supplement.
Speaker 7: Well as for me, I write about film and television wherever,
Speaker 7: in any place that will happen the most recent most
Speaker 7: you know, currently at Vulture and TV Guide, occasionally some
Speaker 7: other places, but you can always find me at the
Speaker 7: Reveal at the Revealed Dot film. It's the newsletter that
Speaker 7: Scott already mentioned where I co write. I co write
Speaker 7: that with him and as much as he willed his
Speaker 7: next piece into existence. I'm holding a blu ray of
Speaker 7: the film Ulysses, which is the Anthony Quinn Kirk Douglas
Speaker 7: version of the Odyssey from the nineteen fifties that I've
Speaker 7: never seen. But it's interesting that I think it's just
Speaker 7: the fact that it's it's the only other modern, you know,
Speaker 7: sort of like post silent full adaptation of the Odyssey
Speaker 7: to film, and I think it's probably pretty different. It's
Speaker 7: only ninety four minutes long, so I'm sure it's quite
Speaker 7: different from Christopher Nolan's version. Also, because there aren't enough
Speaker 7: film podcasts and in the world, I recently launched a
Speaker 7: with with Mike Ryan, who used to work with it
Speaker 7: up Rocks. He brought me the idea of doing a
Speaker 7: podcast about Harrison Ford movies, and I think that's a
Speaker 7: pretty good idea, and he's like, and we can call
Speaker 7: it Ford Focus, Like, oh, that's a great idea. So
Speaker 7: we are going through the filmography of Harrison Ford, you know,
Speaker 7: one film at a time. We're currently on a weekly
Speaker 7: schedule and we're having some guests on. You know, currently
Speaker 7: we got episodes about The Fugitive. By the time this
Speaker 7: comes out, we'll have covered Mosquito Coast and The Devil's Own.
Speaker 7: Are kind of alternating the big hits with the lesser
Speaker 7: known films.
Speaker 4: So it's if you were to join Patreon and get
Speaker 4: more content, what would you be called then.
Speaker 7: Keith, Well, know you're referring to our bonus episodes, which
Speaker 7: are thing Ford escapes, which.
Speaker 2: I thought you were personally called a Ford Explorer. If you're.
Speaker 7: Maybe that's me that we need to maybe we need
Speaker 7: to incorporate that. That's that's great. We did rule out
Speaker 7: using the word Ford probe in any context show though,
Speaker 7: so that's that would not work. But you can look
Speaker 7: for that where we can find podcasts and you know,
Speaker 7: like this one.
Speaker 5: You can also stay updated on the Next Picture Show
Speaker 5: at Next Picture Show dot net and on blue Sky
Speaker 5: at the Next Picture Show. Get bonus content and open
Speaker 5: discussion at patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show. And
Speaker 5: as always, we appreciate your ratings and reviews on Apple
Speaker 5: Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to this show.
Speaker 5: Thanks to Dan the Bake Jakes for his assistance in
Speaker 5: producing this podcast. The Next Picture Show is proud to
Speaker 5: be part of the Film Spotting family of podcasts. Please
Speaker 5: tune in next time.
Speaker 7: It was a good movie Yah seen here before once