Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex Bart and Lazarre. Hello, everybody nailed it?
Speaker 1: He joined as always by our.
Speaker 2: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Barr. Whoever is is
Speaker 2: gonna have an easier time than the guy right now?
Speaker 1: Shocker, right, you can make it easier on the quarterback.
Speaker 1: I thought, well, no, that's a dirty thing. Don't you
Speaker 1: dare say you should get the quarterback out? No, because
Speaker 1: that means he's not good. He should do all this.
Speaker 2: Welcome into a brand new Catch twenty two. Alex Bart
Speaker 2: in the host chair today because Evan Lazar is in
Speaker 2: Germany as the Patriots get ready to take on the
Speaker 2: Colts on Sunday. Evan made the trip out. I mean,
Speaker 2: he's on the show, but I'm in the host chair
Speaker 2: because I'm the one that's patch Land.
Speaker 1: Here I am. I'm here.
Speaker 2: Evan is in deutsch Land. Is it guten tog guten dog?
Speaker 2: That's good morning? Right?
Speaker 1: No, Morgan is good morning, but here it's guten tog
Speaker 1: because it's four o'clock in the afternoon.
Speaker 2: So what is guten tog? Is that like good afternood afternoon?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Guten morgan, guten tog Yes, probably as much
Speaker 2: German as I'm gonna try to speak. We'll see if
Speaker 2: Evan can slip any end, but we're gonna I've.
Speaker 1: Learned a little bit out here, and you gotta gotta
Speaker 1: survive these streets, you know what I'm saying. So you
Speaker 1: got to you gotta go out there and learn a
Speaker 1: little bit.
Speaker 2: So I got some words for you we can drop
Speaker 2: if have you been able to order food? That to
Speaker 2: me is like the big one. I remember I went
Speaker 2: up to Quebec when I was in high school and
Speaker 2: I took French in high school and I went up
Speaker 2: to Quebec, and I was so proud of myself when
Speaker 2: I ordered a sandwich completely in French. I probably butchered it,
Speaker 2: like I didn't get what I wanted, but the transaction happened.
Speaker 2: So that to me is the big test. Have you
Speaker 2: ordered food in Germany?
Speaker 3: Yet?
Speaker 1: I have ordered food? I honestly, a lot of people
Speaker 1: speak English over here, most people. That's not what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I know you can order food speaking English. I've seen
Speaker 2: you do that. I would hope you can do that.
Speaker 2: Have you ordered food speaking German?
Speaker 1: No? I haven't, but you're right, I should try. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'll try for dinner tonight.
Speaker 2: See can you do that once by the end of
Speaker 2: the trip and let us know how.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I can pull it off. Maybe.
Speaker 2: So Evan is in Germany, you're at Is it Patriots House?
Speaker 2: You guys have like to set up there?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're I'm in Patriots House h a us
Speaker 1: of course house right now. And it's great crowd. We
Speaker 1: got a lot of German Patriots fans, which is pretty
Speaker 1: cool because you know, Alex like people call from Europe
Speaker 1: and call from different places in the world, so it's
Speaker 1: it's cool to see a different group of fans. And
Speaker 1: we got pat Patriot here. We got Vince will Fork
Speaker 1: I'll assume Sebastian Volmer is around here somewhere as well
Speaker 1: with Marcus Kohn. So we got a lot of different
Speaker 1: things going on, and there's food, there's you know, we
Speaker 1: got this whole setup with the stage and everything, and
Speaker 1: then Unfiltered we'll be up here on video so you'll
Speaker 1: be able to see into it a little bit when
Speaker 1: we do Unfiltered after this, and we have a whole
Speaker 1: setup up here, so it's it's pretty fun. You know,
Speaker 1: it's been a great couple of days here. Honestly. The
Speaker 1: jet lag, of course, as you can imagine, Barth has
Speaker 1: been a little bit tough. Yeah, but now that we're through. Now,
Speaker 1: we're through that part of it for the most part,
Speaker 1: I'd say, But I had never been I've never been
Speaker 1: to Europe in my life, so I checked that box off,
Speaker 1: and I have never been like a head in time wise,
Speaker 1: right you know, I've been to the West Coast, as
Speaker 1: you know, a billion times, but that's going back, So
Speaker 1: going ahead is a whole different animal. I'll tell you that.
Speaker 1: It's very, very weird to wake up here and it's
Speaker 1: the middle of the night back home and things like that,
Speaker 1: but it's the atmosphere is great here. You know, it's
Speaker 1: kind of like a Super Bowl where it's gonna turn
Speaker 1: up as we get closer and closer to the game.
Speaker 1: But there's a ton of Patriots fans here even with this,
Speaker 1: you know, state of the team, which I think says
Speaker 1: a lot about the fan base.
Speaker 2: What is like the football buzz there because they had
Speaker 2: a game last week and good game Chiefs and Dolphins
Speaker 2: and just the overall football buzz in the city right now.
Speaker 1: I think it's great. Like I said, what's been really impressive,
Speaker 1: I would say is you don't recognize how many fans
Speaker 1: that the Patriots have over here in Europe. And we've
Speaker 1: had so many people that are either from Germany and
Speaker 1: live in Germany currently, but even people from the UK
Speaker 1: or people from other parts of Europe that are coming
Speaker 1: or migrating over here. It's for the game and coming
Speaker 1: out for the week or a couple of days before
Speaker 1: the game as well to come here. So it's it's
Speaker 1: definitely interesting, and I think that it's there's certainly a
Speaker 1: lot of people that are starting to want to know football,
Speaker 1: and football I think is getting more and more popular
Speaker 1: over here, so it's going to be interesting to see.
Speaker 1: I think what it's like really, you know, Saturday before
Speaker 1: the game and then obviously Sunday at the game. The
Speaker 1: atmosphere for the Chiefs game was apparently incredible.
Speaker 2: I gotta say it so Tamara Brown just tweet out
Speaker 2: of picture you sitting up on that stage, all the
Speaker 2: big chairs. That's a good one. Last one and then
Speaker 2: we can get to the football. I'm just curious. So
Speaker 2: it's this stadium. They're holding games at this stadium in
Speaker 2: Frankrt's it's uh and I'm blanking on the name of
Speaker 2: the stadium right now. I should know this Deutsche Bank
Speaker 2: Deutsch Have you gotten to like check out the stadium
Speaker 2: or how's the stadium as a football venue from what
Speaker 2: you are?
Speaker 1: So we've we've drone past it, and then obviously some
Speaker 1: of our team has, you know, done some some prelim
Speaker 1: scouting right to just make sure that they have to
Speaker 1: lay of the land and everything. Hello Bradley, Bradley just
Speaker 1: swave and high saying hi to YouTube Barth and uh.
Speaker 1: So there there. We have been to the stadium, are
Speaker 1: driven to the stadium. But tomorrow we'll we'll really get
Speaker 1: boots on the ground when the team arrives and then
Speaker 1: we'll we'll be at the stadium a little bit tomorrow.
Speaker 1: But we've we've seen it and it it's impressive stadium.
Speaker 1: We actually when we flew in the other night or
Speaker 1: the other morning, I guess I should say here you
Speaker 1: could see it from as we were landing, and so
Speaker 1: you got that nice bird's eye view of the stadium,
Speaker 1: which was pretty cool. And I would say, it's everybody's
Speaker 1: just looking at me right now, like what the hell
Speaker 1: is going on. But yeah, it's it's been pretty cool.
Speaker 1: And I would say that we can probably tell you
Speaker 1: more about the actual stadium itself tomorrow, but in general,
Speaker 1: I think what's cool about the stadium is it's kind
Speaker 1: of got like covering on the outside, but then the
Speaker 1: inside is open air, so there's a roof, but it's
Speaker 1: open right now, and I think I'm hoping it's going
Speaker 1: to be open for the game.
Speaker 2: Wait, it's good. It's got one of those big scoreboards too.
Speaker 2: I saw that, which I know last week punters were
Speaker 2: hitting yeah, the scoreboard last week, so you know, I'm
Speaker 2: excited about that. If we can get into the Patriots
Speaker 2: playing the Colts in that stadium in a little bit,
Speaker 2: it's it's time now we get into as we usually
Speaker 2: do from last week, the Patriots and the Commanders, a
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen game. Also, you want to call in talk
Speaker 2: with us eight five five Pats five hundred is the
Speaker 2: phone number eight five five seven two eight seven five hundred.
Speaker 2: If you want to call in a chat with us,
Speaker 2: email web radio at Patriots dot com. We'll get into
Speaker 2: the game a little bit. We'll get into the Colts
Speaker 2: game ahead, Evan. There was also some big pre draft
Speaker 2: news this week, not necessarily about any of the players,
Speaker 2: but a change in the pre draft process that I
Speaker 2: think people who listened to this show and people who
Speaker 2: are fans of the show, I think it's relevant to them.
Speaker 2: So we'll touch on that a little bit at the
Speaker 2: end of the show, plus whatever you guys want to
Speaker 2: talk about. But you know, as we get into the
Speaker 2: Patriots Commander's game from last week, a close game, I
Speaker 2: guess we'll just start there. A close game against what
Speaker 2: felt like to evenly match teams, but the Patriots came
Speaker 2: up short. Is that sort of your read on it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I thought that was exactly what it was. And
Speaker 1: the big thing and kind of spinning it forward to
Speaker 1: to this game in Germany, it just seemed like, Look,
Speaker 1: I think everybody looks at the Patriots the last couple
Speaker 1: of years and sees this fall from grace that has
Speaker 1: slowly gotten to this point to where there are a
Speaker 1: two and seven football team. But what had kept them afloat?
Speaker 1: I felt like last year even winning eight and like,
Speaker 1: looking back on last year, Barth, doesn't it feel kind
Speaker 1: of crazy that that team managed to win eight games? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then the year before that they won ten and
Speaker 1: made the playoffs, and it always felt like they had
Speaker 1: this level of fundamentals of locked in execution in terms
Speaker 1: of assignments and things like that, that even if they
Speaker 1: got beat, even if they weren't the better team that day,
Speaker 1: they were still able to win these games like this
Speaker 1: one against the Commanders. You know, a second year quarterback,
Speaker 1: he's still finding his way in the league, and Sam
Speaker 1: Howell and at home, and you just felt like the
Speaker 1: Patriots would always pull those types of games out in
Speaker 1: the end. And I think what we've seen is just
Speaker 1: the fundamentals and the assignments and the mental part of
Speaker 1: the game, and to an extent as well, a lot
Speaker 1: of that has just fallen by the wayside, it feels
Speaker 1: like with this team, and that's where I'm at with them.
Speaker 1: I think we talked so much on this show about
Speaker 1: personnel and missteps by the build, the GM side of things,
Speaker 1: but now you have to look at this team and
Speaker 1: start to think about are they well coached from a
Speaker 1: fundamental perspective? Are they sound? Are they understanding the game
Speaker 1: plan and the concepts and things like that. In this
Speaker 1: game is particularly on defense offense, I think they still
Speaker 1: had their issues based off of mainly talent, you know,
Speaker 1: just right execution, quarterbacks, play talent. Funny.
Speaker 2: I would actually say in terms of coaching, one thing
Speaker 2: that stood at as a positive in this game, and
Speaker 2: we'll get to ups and downs in a little bit,
Speaker 2: but I'll kind of spoil one of mine here was
Speaker 2: the offensive line. In just that they were down Trent Brown,
Speaker 2: who's been their best linemen. They were facing a team that,
Speaker 2: even after trading away two of their best pass rushers,
Speaker 2: still has a very formidable defensive front. Yeah, they did
Speaker 2: get bailed out on a week roughing the passer call,
Speaker 2: but that felt like the only massive breakdown. There were
Speaker 2: some little issues here and there, But to lose Trent
Speaker 2: Brown have to turn econom McDermott, who wasn't even on
Speaker 2: the roster three weeks ago, and hold up as a
Speaker 2: whole the way they did against Washington. Again, they were
Speaker 2: the blips here and there, but to hold up the
Speaker 2: way they did as a whole thing says that, you know,
Speaker 2: is a good job on the coaching staff. Now, the
Speaker 2: offensive line coach, Adrian clem is going to be away
Speaker 2: from the team here, Bill Belichick said earlier this week
Speaker 2: for a little while. It's a health issue Buill didn't
Speaker 2: and he didn't need to, you know, go beyond that.
Speaker 2: I get that there's privacy things, and obviously we hope,
Speaker 2: you know, the best for Adrian Clem and whatever he's
Speaker 2: dealing with. It's been a weird season for these kind
Speaker 2: of things, especially on the offensive line. Calvin Anderson now
Speaker 2: missing time for this second time this year due to
Speaker 2: an illness in Clem. But I thought the offensive line
Speaker 2: in that sense left often a good way. But besides that, I.
Speaker 1: Agree with you.
Speaker 2: I think there were opportunities left on the table or
Speaker 2: just attempts at things that Like they're running bubble screens
Speaker 2: to Juju Smith Schuster and it's something I'd tried early
Speaker 2: in the year. It didn't work, and it was like,
Speaker 2: all right, you tried it, it didn't work. They hadn't
Speaker 2: gone back to it, and I get that we criticized
Speaker 2: them when they did it, but especially early in the season,
Speaker 2: that's what you do. You're trying thing. It's a feeling
Speaker 2: out process.
Speaker 1: Didn't work.
Speaker 2: It seemed like they moved on and now maybe it's
Speaker 2: because of injuries or whatever. Those kind of players are
Speaker 2: coming back, and I thought that was interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the offensive line is a great point.
Speaker 1: And we talk so much about the quarterback and about Mac,
Speaker 1: and I think you and I have have been labeled
Speaker 1: Mack apologists at times. In the last two weeks, pressure
Speaker 1: on the quarterback has not been a major issue. Even
Speaker 1: without Trent Brown last week, the pressure rate was kept
Speaker 1: in manageable range.
Speaker 2: And he's realistic. They weren't, you know, the nineties cowboys,
Speaker 2: but it was realistic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that when you start to look
Speaker 1: at it on this film, the biggest thing with Mac
Speaker 1: Jones is that he just doesn't seem to be seeing
Speaker 1: the field as well as he normally does, and his
Speaker 1: like his timing where everything is lined up for him
Speaker 1: to make throws down the field, it's all sped up.
Speaker 1: Everything is sped up about the quarterback right now. His
Speaker 1: reads are sped up, his decisions are sped up, his
Speaker 1: feet are unsettled, and he just looks like he's always
Speaker 1: in a rush. And if there's one thing that I
Speaker 1: could look at if I was Bill O'Brien, I think
Speaker 1: these next eight games, the way I feel about it, Alex,
Speaker 1: is that Mack is auditioning for his job in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four. Over the last eight games of the season,
Speaker 1: not necessarily in wins and losses, but just in terms
Speaker 1: of there's two different directions that this team could go
Speaker 1: from here. They could either bring Mack back, draft Marvin
Speaker 1: Harrison Junior, signed T Higgins draft to tackle, and try
Speaker 1: to just build this thing up around him.
Speaker 2: With the host year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and hope that that makes the quarterback look better
Speaker 1: a'la Miami a la San Francisco all the teams that
Speaker 1: we've talked about in the past, or you feel like
Speaker 1: you have to start all over at the quarterback position
Speaker 1: with the draft pick or what have you. And I
Speaker 1: feel like these next eight games are an audition for
Speaker 1: Mac to make his case.
Speaker 2: And if I can just add to that, Yeah, and
Speaker 2: I've said this before. This isn't a new take, but
Speaker 2: I think it ties in on top of auditioning for
Speaker 2: his job. And I know you said that that's independent
Speaker 2: of wins and losses to an extent. It is he
Speaker 2: can play quarterback at a higher level and the team
Speaker 2: could still very well end up losing games. He played
Speaker 2: at a high level early this year in games that
Speaker 2: they lost, But there's also this element of he needs
Speaker 2: to keep them out of position to draft his replacement
Speaker 2: if they end up they as we said here today,
Speaker 2: they'd have the fifth pick. Let's say Drake may is
Speaker 2: the fifth is on the board of five, they can't
Speaker 2: not take them. So Mac needs to get this team
Speaker 2: some wins so that guys like Kayleb Williams, Drake and
Speaker 2: Michael Pennocks are off the board. And then you're looking
Speaker 2: at Jolt, You're looking at Olufashanu. Maybe it's not Marvin Harrison,
Speaker 2: but Romadonza Malik Neighbors as being the kind of guy
Speaker 2: that's gonna, uh make more sense as the addition to
Speaker 2: add to Mac rather than to bring in the next guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. He needs to prove or whether he plays
Speaker 1: them out of that position or rite whatever, that he
Speaker 1: he should be in the mix in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: And I know a lot of people have made their
Speaker 1: minds up about Mac, like they've written them off and
Speaker 1: they say, you know, saying that they immediately need to
Speaker 1: move on. And I've been of the school I thought,
Speaker 1: as you know, that I think they haven't done enough
Speaker 1: to add around him, and I still feel that way
Speaker 1: to an extent, But I also look at a team
Speaker 1: like the Houston Texans, right now, for example, that game.
Speaker 1: I don't know how much of that game you got
Speaker 1: to watch, but I just watched some of the highlights.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I went back and checked out on our way
Speaker 2: over here.
Speaker 4: C J.
Speaker 1: Stroud is making that team relevant. Yeah, he has flipped
Speaker 1: the switch in Houston, and whether it's sustainable and whether
Speaker 1: it goes on to be in a franchise quarterback type
Speaker 1: of thing. He looks like he is going on to
Speaker 1: have a hell of a career in the NFL. And
Speaker 1: sometimes just getting that type of player, even if it's
Speaker 1: not significantly better, and they don't go out Miami style
Speaker 1: and draft Jalen Waddle and trade for Tyreek Hill and
Speaker 1: make it the super offense, the quarterback can make a
Speaker 1: huge difference. And I think that in this film with
Speaker 1: mag you know that I know that Mike Kasicki one
Speaker 1: is going around now right, people have picked that one up.
Speaker 1: Mikeasicki up this wide open and he rushes the decision
Speaker 1: and scrambles that. That's a big one. But I thought
Speaker 1: that there was other things. As pat Patriot is dancing
Speaker 1: and right in front of me.
Speaker 2: Right now, the duality of man.
Speaker 1: I think there is a lot of other reps or
Speaker 1: whatever you want to drop backs in this game where
Speaker 1: similar things were happening, I think that was the most
Speaker 1: egregious one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, was the one to Kasicki. But that there's the
Speaker 2: one to Thornton. And what's frustrating is there's some good
Speaker 2: throws too. The touchdown hunter Henry is a seed the throat.
Speaker 2: I know people hate the throw to Juju because Jonathan
Speaker 2: villm has said it on the broadcast. Jonathan No that
Speaker 2: if the ball hits the receiver in both of his hands,
Speaker 2: it's a good throw, like period, full stop. That's just
Speaker 2: in terms of the throw itself. You can argue the decision,
Speaker 2: but he trust himself to make that throw. He made
Speaker 2: that throw. The deep throw to Rager is a good throw. Now,
Speaker 2: two of his best throws were dropped. That's its own thing,
Speaker 2: and that's where you get into the talent around him.
Speaker 2: But that's what makes it so frustrating is there are
Speaker 2: the splashes, but it's just still not consistent enough to
Speaker 2: that you can like build things around him.
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, I agree, And That's where I'm at now
Speaker 1: with Mac is that he's got to be consistent with
Speaker 1: the things that he can control. And I think that
Speaker 1: no they're they're not putting out an offensive product right
Speaker 1: now that if Macus starts making some of these throws,
Speaker 1: they're gonna score forty points a game. Like nobody's saying that.
Speaker 1: But could they have easily won this game twenty three
Speaker 1: twenty if he makes some of those throws. Absolutely, And
Speaker 1: that's the difference, right that we're talking about playing your
Speaker 1: way out of drafting your replacement. That that's how you
Speaker 1: do that. It's not necessarily going out there and averaging
Speaker 1: thirty five points a game for the next eight games.
Speaker 1: It's just making a couple more of those plays that
Speaker 1: he's not currently making. The Kasiki throw is out there now.
Speaker 1: In terms of reads, that wheel route to Ramandre Stevenson
Speaker 1: is a realnother one. Yeah. I mean he he backfoot
Speaker 1: one foot fadeaways like he's you know, Kobe Bryant in
Speaker 1: the post and remandre I there's a post safety in
Speaker 1: the middle of the field. If he hits Hermandre and
Speaker 1: stride with that pass, and that might be an eighty
Speaker 1: r touchdown.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and instead just got to step in it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Instead he backfoots it, you know, fade away in
Speaker 1: the pocket and there was pressure coming up the middle
Speaker 1: a little bit. Somebody broke through the A gap and
Speaker 1: there was some pressure up the middle. But that's one
Speaker 1: of those throws that you just got to stand in there.
Speaker 1: As an NFL quarterback, you can't. You can't shy away
Speaker 1: from the contact. You just got to stand in there,
Speaker 1: set your feet, make a strong throw, and take the
Speaker 1: hit because the play is there to be made. If
Speaker 1: there weren't, if we watched the tape and said there's
Speaker 1: just no place, like everybody's just blanketed on every snap
Speaker 1: and there's just no place to be made, I think
Speaker 1: that we could sit there and excuse it all away
Speaker 1: from Mac Jones.
Speaker 2: But at this point, which is kind of what last
Speaker 2: year was, Yeah, at.
Speaker 1: This point there are plays to be made on the tape.
Speaker 1: Is it as often as it needs to be? No,
Speaker 1: And that's where the personnel in the talent around him
Speaker 1: comes in. But yes, his margin for errors tiny, but
Speaker 1: there's still two or three throws a game that if
Speaker 1: he makes those throws, it swings the game significantly. And
Speaker 1: those two plays I think are the ones that stand
Speaker 1: out the most to me. And even the fourth down
Speaker 1: throw to Taekwan that you mentioned, Like those three plays,
Speaker 1: if those three plays end up being completions. First of all,
Speaker 1: all three of those plays, if you know you just
Speaker 1: give the receiver the benefit of the doubt after the catch,
Speaker 1: have a chance to be huge explosives. Yeah, like forty
Speaker 1: plus yard plays in some cases. And you know, the
Speaker 1: seam throw to Kasicki is essentially the exact same throw
Speaker 1: that he made to Faraoh Brown against the Jets, and
Speaker 1: and you know, Faroll Brown takes it to a fifty
Speaker 1: five yard touchdown or whatever that is. So if he
Speaker 1: hits Kasicki and stride up the seam there, you know,
Speaker 1: he might be gone. And that just significantly changes the
Speaker 1: entire game. So he's got to play better, and we
Speaker 1: all know that. And I hate to turn the show
Speaker 1: every week into you know, Bill Belichick's job security, Mac Jones'
Speaker 1: job security. Like I feel like we just beat that
Speaker 1: dead horse on that as media, honestly, Like that's all
Speaker 1: where everyone's talking about. But it is the biggest story
Speaker 1: with the team, So we do have to discuss it
Speaker 1: a little bit.
Speaker 2: So we can get to that. Also, if you want
Speaker 2: to call in eight five to five pats five hundred, definitely,
Speaker 2: Evan Stingy with the phones, I'm a littless stingy. So
Speaker 2: I know, Matthew, I see hanging on. Will get to
Speaker 2: you in a minute here. But if there is an
Speaker 2: email we have that I want to get to. And
Speaker 2: since you talk about all these international Patriots fans, Nicholas
Speaker 2: in Oslo, Norway asks, and this is specifically for us,
Speaker 2: it's a question for catch twenty two. Oh, if the
Speaker 2: Patriots decide mac Jones is not the future, he gives
Speaker 2: you know, what should they do? Entering today? They'd hold
Speaker 2: the fifth pick, So here's what his options are. Pick
Speaker 2: the best quarterback available at five, and then Presdy says Pennix.
Speaker 2: So I guess we're saying, let's say they're sitting somewhere
Speaker 2: between five and ten, May and Williams going the top three,
Speaker 2: So best quarterback available when they pick with their pick,
Speaker 2: move up and get May or Williams. Pick an offensive tackler,
Speaker 2: wide receiver, so we're talking Joe Alt, Marvin Harrison, or Lufashano,
Speaker 2: and then sign a veteran quarterback. And he asked who
Speaker 2: that would be or he says something else, parenthese'son day
Speaker 2: two QB.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's that's these are the either or
Speaker 1: scenarios that you and I are going to be talking
Speaker 1: about for the next six months. Right, it's just the
Speaker 1: chicken or is at the egg, and that's what they're
Speaker 1: gonna have to decide. I would lean towards if you
Speaker 1: really don't feel like Mac is your quarterback, you have
Speaker 1: to take a quarterback. Yeah, you have to take a quarterback.
Speaker 1: And I think the one thing that we're we we
Speaker 1: should keep in mind is that they're projected right now
Speaker 1: depending on who you believe or who you trust with
Speaker 1: the salary cap space, let's just call it between seventy
Speaker 1: five and one hundred million dollars in cap space. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of that is because they have guys that
Speaker 1: are free agents and they don't have a lot of
Speaker 1: big money players, and that speaks to the talent and
Speaker 1: it's a bigger picture issue in some senses. But they
Speaker 1: have seventy five to one hundred million dollars in cap space,
Speaker 1: and there are some free agent playmakers, free agent receivers
Speaker 1: that are gonna be available. And I know people will say, well,
Speaker 1: they did that with Agalore, they did that with Born.
Speaker 1: It didn't really move the needle. But let's say you
Speaker 1: know a guy that I'm excited to watch on Sunday
Speaker 1: when I know we're gonna get into the Colts a
Speaker 1: little bit at the end. But Michael Pittman Junior, who
Speaker 1: I think is a really talented player, and I'm excited
Speaker 1: to see him in person and see how he moves
Speaker 1: on the field this weekend. I would assume that the
Speaker 1: Colts with a young quarterback, are gonna want to keep
Speaker 1: their thousand yard receiver who's to only twenty six years old.
Speaker 1: You would think that that's a player that Indy is
Speaker 1: going to prioritize. But let's just say that somebody like
Speaker 1: Michael Pittman Junior or somebody like T Higgins reaches free agency.
Speaker 1: If you use that first round pick on a quarterback,
Speaker 1: you can still pay one of those guys in free
Speaker 1: agency and pair him with the young quarterback. So it
Speaker 1: doesn't have to necessarily be either or you just have
Speaker 1: to use all the resources at your disposal. And if
Speaker 1: I'm the Patriots right now, if I had to make
Speaker 1: that decision, and I'm curious to see how you feel.
Speaker 1: But if I had to make that decison today, was
Speaker 1: it November ninth, Yeah, I would say to draft the
Speaker 1: quarterback and put all of your eggs in like T Higgins, right,
Speaker 1: just try to put everything in towards an offer with
Speaker 1: T Higgins. I know people are gonna say, well, why
Speaker 1: would T Higgins want to come here? If you pay
Speaker 1: him twenty five million dollars and it's more money than
Speaker 1: anybody else offered, he'll come right, right, Why did Matthew
Speaker 1: Judon come here? Like, let's face it. And so I
Speaker 1: think that if you you know, that's what I would
Speaker 1: personally do at this present moment. But like I said,
Speaker 1: you know, I can be swayed. I've made up my
Speaker 1: mind for now on Mac, but I can be swayed
Speaker 1: back on the other side.
Speaker 2: So I would say, and I've said this before, if
Speaker 2: you believe if they weren't a spot to draft Mayor Williams,
Speaker 2: even if that means trading up a couple of picks,
Speaker 2: if you believe one of those guys is the guy
Speaker 2: is gonna be your quarterback for the next fifteen years,
Speaker 2: agot I who up and get him? If not, let's
Speaker 2: say they love and it's funny. Last time we did
Speaker 2: this seven in twenty twenty one. I think this was
Speaker 2: your take and I hated it. And maybe it's because
Speaker 2: it's a different class. I like this class better than
Speaker 2: I liked the twenty one class, at least after the
Speaker 2: first round. Let's say they really like Jayde Daniels, or
Speaker 2: they really like JJ McCarthy, one of these guys that's
Speaker 2: probably gonna go early in the second round. I wouldn't
Speaker 2: because you still have Mac on his rookie contract. I
Speaker 2: would not be opposed to them taking Joe Alt, Marvin
Speaker 2: Harrison Junior, whoever in the first round, Jayde Daniels in
Speaker 2: the second, and then Mack essentially becomes the bridge guy, right,
Speaker 2: and you work with it, and then you have a
Speaker 2: year with Jayden Daniels and then if Jane Daniels isn't
Speaker 2: the guy, well you're probably gonna be picking in the
Speaker 2: top ten again next year. And then you go draft
Speaker 2: the guy in the first round. Uh yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: it's the Jalen Hurts mind right exactly exactly. Or to
Speaker 2: go further back, honestly, it's what the Carolina Panthers did
Speaker 2: in twenty ten. They drafted Jimmy Clawson in the second
Speaker 2: or third round. They had I can't remember who the
Speaker 2: veteran was, but they had a veteran and they drafted
Speaker 2: Jimmy Classon in the second and third round. He fell
Speaker 2: a little bit, and they basically were like, all right,
Speaker 2: we're gonna see if Jimy Crosson is starting quarterback. Jimmy
Speaker 2: Clawson wasn't. And then the next year they took Cam
Speaker 2: at the top of the track and it would kind
Speaker 2: of be that thing where you're hoping you do it
Speaker 2: ends up being the Jalen Hurts thing. And then if
Speaker 2: the guy you're taking the second round turns out he
Speaker 2: can't play, all right, now you go get the first
Speaker 2: round of next year, and then you're pairing that guy,
Speaker 2: whether it be Drew Aller, whether it be Sitt or Sanders,
Speaker 2: you're pairing that guy with either Joe Walt or Marvin Heyres.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, you know I've only watched you know, passing
Speaker 1: ly the most of these quarterbacks in college for right now.
Speaker 1: But Jayden Daniels doesn't treat me based off of what
Speaker 1: i've he shut him he shut recently. I think the
Speaker 1: biggest thing with just a general and I know I've
Speaker 1: said to you, said this to you off air a
Speaker 1: couple times. What worries me all the time about these
Speaker 1: young quarterbacks in college is that so many of them
Speaker 1: are playing playground football, and it's maybe some of it.
Speaker 1: You know, we've seen all the three pointers in basketball
Speaker 1: because of Steph Curry, right. I do think that there
Speaker 1: is a Patrick Mahomes Josh Allen type of effect to this.
Speaker 1: We're now creating out of structure. Is what become the
Speaker 1: it thing to do, the hit thing to do, is
Speaker 1: become to run around and make these ridiculous off platform throws.
Speaker 1: And Caleb Williams and what I saw from Penix in
Speaker 1: that that USC Washington game, those two guys do that
Speaker 1: both at a really high level. What I want to
Speaker 1: see is can you create from in the pocket instructure
Speaker 1: quarterback and you know, throw accurately in the pocket, make yourself,
Speaker 1: you know, manage the pocket, which is something that I
Speaker 1: don't think we've seen Mac Jones do a good job of,
Speaker 1: especially this year. Is you're sometimes you are going to
Speaker 1: be throwing from a phone booth that that's that's the NFL.
Speaker 1: So can you throw with arm strength and you know,
Speaker 1: get the all the throws out there that you need
Speaker 1: to get out there from a muddied pocket? Can you
Speaker 1: make reads? Obviously is you know a huge one of course,
Speaker 1: Jaden Daniels to me in that last game that they
Speaker 1: that that I watched for LSU, blanking on who they're playing.
Speaker 1: I'm sure Alabam Alabama made so many great throws from
Speaker 1: the pocket, and and that is intriguing. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: that those other guys can't do it. I just I'm
Speaker 1: concerned about guys thinking that it's just easy to emulate
Speaker 1: Mahomes in the league and just coming in and thinking, oh, well,
Speaker 1: if Mahomes does it, then everybody can do that now,
Speaker 1: when in reality, there there is a chance that it's
Speaker 1: one of one, right, like that only one guy can
Speaker 1: play second reaction playground football like that and throw from
Speaker 1: all these weird arm angles and off platform and you
Speaker 1: know we always talk about like the Mahomes shortstop throws
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. There's a chance that maybe he's
Speaker 1: the only guy that can do that on the planet.
Speaker 1: And I worry about other guys trying to emulate that
Speaker 1: and then recognizing oh what now and and are you
Speaker 1: going to be able to have that fallback? I think
Speaker 1: that's the one thing with Mac is like he's gotten
Speaker 1: punched in the mouth and he hasn't really adjusted. So
Speaker 1: how these guys younger guys are able to handle adversity
Speaker 1: is going to be big two and I would with
Speaker 1: you on that.
Speaker 2: And we've seen guys come in the league and try
Speaker 2: to do the the Mahomes thing and it kind of
Speaker 2: blow up on them. I mean, you look at Zach Wilson.
Speaker 2: I think that pick was predicated on, Hey, he's going
Speaker 2: to be our our Patrick Mahomes. He's going to be
Speaker 2: our Josh Allen, and then he wasn't. Yeah, so all right,
Speaker 2: let's let's take a call and then we can get
Speaker 2: back in at Patriots commanders a little bit. Let's go
Speaker 2: to Matthew kind of all over the place here, but
Speaker 2: that's what happens when I host. Let's go to Matthew
Speaker 2: in New Mexico. Matthew, Hey, guys, how's it going. Hey?
Speaker 4: First off, I want to say I listened to all
Speaker 4: the Patriots shows and this show is by far the
Speaker 4: best one.
Speaker 2: Appreciate that by.
Speaker 5: Far, tell you guys that.
Speaker 4: But my question is, like we've seen like Will Levis
Speaker 4: and like c J. Stroud, So I guess, going off
Speaker 4: of Alex take with like Drake may do we really
Speaker 4: want to start him? Like, what would you guys do?
Speaker 4: Would you guys let him fit for a few games
Speaker 4: and see, especially with the offensive line and with offensive line,
Speaker 4: is it like realistic to rebuild, Like if we get
Speaker 4: a a new quarterback, is it really realistic to rebuild
Speaker 4: this offensive line? In my more and off season, and
Speaker 4: my next question is, like we hear all this stuff
Speaker 4: with Bill and like that, like if you guys had
Speaker 4: to put a percentage on it, Let's say, worst case
Speaker 4: scenario in Germany with a cold, what percentage is like
Speaker 4: could Bill get fired this week?
Speaker 5: And that's it.
Speaker 2: That's it for me, guys, Thank you very much, thanks
Speaker 2: to call Matthew. The first one was he asking already
Speaker 2: how to manage Drake May on the Patriots if they
Speaker 2: get him. That's a little down the road. We'll get
Speaker 2: to that when we get to it. I think the
Speaker 2: second question he asked there was really interesting. How quick
Speaker 2: can you turn the offensive line around, especially if that
Speaker 2: first round pick, we'll just say, goes elsewhere, whether it's
Speaker 2: a quarterback, whether it's a receiver, whether it's a safety,
Speaker 2: which by the way, I wouldn't rule out, especially if
Speaker 2: it's a ends up being a little lower in five.
Speaker 2: If it's closer to the ten to fifteen range. If
Speaker 2: they win some games here, how quickly can you turn
Speaker 2: around this offensive line? And I think there's a couple
Speaker 2: of variables here. First off, Mike go wenhu. Did you
Speaker 2: catch Evan? Oh, you weren't here yesterday?
Speaker 4: I was.
Speaker 2: You saw Bill's presser, right, I did. He was asked
Speaker 2: if the team is comfortable with Mike o wn who
Speaker 2: playing right tackle long term, and he said yes. Now,
Speaker 2: I don't know if that long term He took that
Speaker 2: as this year or for his career, but in the past,
Speaker 2: the Patriots had made it clear they believed his long
Speaker 2: term place was a right guard. Yeah, maybe that's changed
Speaker 2: because here's the thing with the offensive line and Evan.
Speaker 2: I've said this before it adding a tackle is a
Speaker 2: massive undertaking. Yeah, adding a legitimate starting tackle, you're talking
Speaker 2: about a premium mass. So that's a first round pick
Speaker 2: that's probably odds are one of the biggest contracts in
Speaker 2: free agency. You're gonna talk about one of the highest
Speaker 2: paid players league wide, and frequency to add a true
Speaker 2: starting caliber tackle, you need to do that twice in
Speaker 2: an offseason. I don't know about that. That's a lot.
Speaker 2: But if Mike go and win, if they're comfortable with
Speaker 2: him as a right tackle and they pay him and
Speaker 2: they keep him. Okay, that's one box checked. The interior
Speaker 2: should be fine. They shouldn't have to touch the interior.
Speaker 2: They used three top one fifty picks on interior offensive
Speaker 2: lineman last year, and then a first round pick on
Speaker 2: an offensive lineman on an interior offensive lineman in the
Speaker 2: year before that. So now you're just talking about left
Speaker 2: tackle and just Trent end up coming back as he
Speaker 2: often does. Is that where Joe Alt comes into the conversation.
Speaker 2: Olufashanu maybe a Day two guy that you think has
Speaker 2: a high seat as a high floor. Maybe there's other
Speaker 2: free agent tackles. Like all of a sudden, now the
Speaker 2: offensive line is very manageable to fix. If you're gonna
Speaker 2: play Mike on Win would right tackle and pay them
Speaker 2: the interior set, you just have to add that left tackle,
Speaker 2: which is not easy, but it's just one thing. If
Speaker 2: they're gonna let Mike go on Win, who go, Well,
Speaker 2: now you need to add a right tackle tackle and
Speaker 2: depending on what they do with City, so you might
Speaker 2: need to add depth on the interior as well. Now
Speaker 2: it's become this whole other thing. So they can turn
Speaker 2: it around quickly, but it becomes what do they think
Speaker 2: of Mike go and when who positionally and are they
Speaker 2: willing to pay him?
Speaker 1: Yeah, the way I look at it, and I think
Speaker 1: that in terms of paying him, and obviously you have
Speaker 1: to decide which position he's gonna play, that's gonna set
Speaker 1: his market to an extent. But I still look at
Speaker 1: paying Mike Who as.
Speaker 2: Well, I think his market set. If he's gonna pay
Speaker 2: right play right tackle the rest of the season, I
Speaker 2: think his markets set at right tackle, and that's a
Speaker 2: real estate.
Speaker 1: As at least as an elite guard that can kick outside,
Speaker 1: which is going to add to his value. So he's
Speaker 1: gonna make maybe a little bit more than what a
Speaker 1: premium guard would make just because of that flexibility. But
Speaker 1: I think the main thing is I still think that
Speaker 1: whether you view him as a guard or a tackle,
Speaker 1: to me as a as a moot point, Mike on
Speaker 1: win Who should be a Patriot next year and long
Speaker 1: term period. Like they need to get out of the
Speaker 1: business of just letting talent walk out the door. Whether
Speaker 1: whether he's a guarter or tackle is irrelevant. They have
Speaker 1: to keep him in the building. They have to make
Speaker 1: him a priority and they have to keep him around,
Speaker 1: and then you decide, maybe you probably with Mike Onwen
Speaker 1: who as a joint kind of decision, where are we
Speaker 1: going to play you permanently? But I go back to
Speaker 1: and I really still believe that this to be the case.
Speaker 1: Letting Joe Tooney walk was a mistake. It was a
Speaker 1: mistake like that. He's probably gonna be a first team
Speaker 1: All Pro for the Kansas City Chiefs this year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's an argument that he is the best guard in
Speaker 1: the NFL, and I think that, Well, I don't know,
Speaker 1: have you how much of the Colts have you watched
Speaker 1: real quick? Or I assume you've like caught up on them, right? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I watched a bunch Because Quentin Nelson.
Speaker 2: Is not the best guard in football anymore? Is that
Speaker 2: kind of I've heard people said it, but I realized
Speaker 2: this week. I don't know what happened to that guy.
Speaker 1: But yeah, he's like a shell of himself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, Tangent continue, We'll get to that.
Speaker 1: Tuney is such a great player, and when you have
Speaker 1: no matter where the protection is coming from, it's always
Speaker 1: a bonus to have better offensive line play. Yes, And
Speaker 1: I just think that that was a misstep. And I
Speaker 1: know a lot of people look at it and say, well,
Speaker 1: they got themselves tied up in money and guards and
Speaker 1: that was a mistake. No, what was a mistake was
Speaker 1: paying both guards. It wasn't a mistake if you just
Speaker 1: pay one of them, but you can't. It's hard to
Speaker 1: have a roster constructed in some ways if both your
Speaker 1: guards are making ten plus million dollars a year, like
Speaker 1: it would have been with Shaq Mason and Joe Toney.
Speaker 1: But now that you know whether he's a guard or
Speaker 1: a tackle, if you're talking about having Cold Strange on
Speaker 1: a rookie contract, David Andrews on a manageable contract and
Speaker 1: City so as your other guard on a rookie contract,
Speaker 1: then you can pay Mike on winning.
Speaker 2: Especially if one of your tackles will also probably be
Speaker 2: on a rookie contract.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's the difficult part, is filling that
Speaker 1: other tackle spot, because if you look at the tackles
Speaker 1: and free agency, it's not a good class of free
Speaker 1: agent tackles. Like we said last year, and not to
Speaker 1: tuote our own horns, last year was the year to
Speaker 1: get a tackle in free agency, and they didn't do it,
Speaker 1: so this isn't a great class of free agent tackles.
Speaker 1: I would actually say that if he plays well down
Speaker 1: the stretch and stays out of his own way, that
Speaker 1: Trent Brown is one of the best available free agent
Speaker 1: tackles for the twenty twenty four class. So if you're
Speaker 1: using that draft pick on the quarterback and you're not
Speaker 1: using it on a first round tackle, I don't know
Speaker 1: if they can fix all of it in one offseason.
Speaker 1: It is I guess the long winded, you know, the
Speaker 1: short way of saying all that. So maybe it is, Well,
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: I'll say this, it is another good tackle class. I
Speaker 2: think if they go tackle in the top fifty, if
Speaker 2: they take a tackle in the second round or trade
Speaker 2: back up into the late first there's guys like Patrick Paul,
Speaker 2: guys like Amarus Mims, Jordan Morgan who you might be
Speaker 2: able to make it work.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But your point like, they're not fixing it through free agency,
Speaker 2: They're not getting an established player.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so if they might not be able to fix
Speaker 1: it all in one offseason. But I I know that
Speaker 1: people and myself included, don't want this team to have
Speaker 1: to rely on guys like Trent Brown, who is unreliable
Speaker 1: in terms of just all of it. You know, his
Speaker 1: buy in, his effort. Sometimes he's just is what he is.
Speaker 1: He's one of those guys that this is why Scar
Speaker 1: and him were such a good pair in eighteen. You
Speaker 1: gotta coach him hard, you gotta get it out of him,
Speaker 1: You got hit, get him motivated, whether it's financially motivated
Speaker 1: or motivated by winning or whatever. And but one more
Speaker 1: year of Trent Brown, as you kind of use him
Speaker 1: as a bridged transition to some younger guys at that spot,
Speaker 1: isn't the worst case scenario.
Speaker 2: So there's some people in the in the YouTube comments
Speaker 2: right now kind of talking about the offensive line situation
Speaker 2: as a whole. You know, Dante Scarnakia leaving and the
Speaker 2: impact that had recently. And again I said it earlier,
Speaker 2: I thought Adrian Clem did a good job the last
Speaker 2: couple of weeks. The offensive line was bad to start
Speaker 2: the season. I think that goes beyond Clem. I mean
Speaker 2: they were just so banged up. As we kind of
Speaker 2: hit this interesting bought with him. And again, if you
Speaker 2: missed it, Adrian Clem is going to be away from
Speaker 2: the team. Bill Belichick called it for a little while
Speaker 2: with a health issue, and we hope the best for him.
Speaker 2: Of course, what have you thought of the job Clem
Speaker 2: has done? And how big you know, we don't often
Speaker 2: talk about coaches as a loss, but in a season
Speaker 2: where it seems like everybody on the team has been
Speaker 2: on the injury report at some point, even now, the
Speaker 2: coaches are what have you thought of the job Clem
Speaker 2: has done? And how big of a loss is he?
Speaker 2: On a game to game basis here?
Speaker 1: Well, well, you know, and people that are regular listeners
Speaker 1: to the show, I know how critical I was of
Speaker 1: him in the beginning of the season. I mean the
Speaker 1: line play that they put out of the first let's
Speaker 1: call it six weeks, but really the first you know,
Speaker 1: I'd say four or five games, Yeah, it was deplorable.
Speaker 1: I mean that was not NFL caliber across the board,
Speaker 1: and guys are playing with bad fundamentals, bad pad level,
Speaker 1: bad hand placement, like just bad football from the offensive line.
Speaker 1: It has been better. It has been better, And I
Speaker 1: know a lot of that lines up with the fact
Speaker 1: that Mike gon Wendy was now playing tackle and he's
Speaker 1: kind of settled things down. I'll give Clem some credit
Speaker 1: because cityso I think has developed a little bit here.
Speaker 1: He He's definitely a lot better with some of the
Speaker 1: movements and things up front that he gets from opposing
Speaker 1: defensive lines, like stunts, picks, the twists, blitzes like that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. He's been a lot better at that,
Speaker 1: and they've coached him up on a lot of those things.
Speaker 1: So I give them credit for that. And I actually thought,
Speaker 1: and he's not in my ups, but I thought about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think Cole Strange played an okay game last week.
Speaker 1: There was some pressures allowed that I didn't love. I
Speaker 1: had him down with three, but it wasn't egregious, especially
Speaker 1: in that matchup. And he also made some really really
Speaker 1: good blocks, especially in the run game, like his block
Speaker 1: on Vermondre Stevenson's sixty four yard touchdown was a really
Speaker 1: underrated block that made that play work. So I was intrigued.
Speaker 1: I guess is the word from cole Strange that this
Speaker 1: was a better game for him. So I'll give Clem
Speaker 1: some flowers, but I think they can they'll be all
Speaker 1: right on the line, you know, with with uh Billyates. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because Yeates, you know, has been in the room all
Speaker 1: season long. It's gonna be the same program like you would.
Speaker 1: You would think that they would be able to figure
Speaker 1: it out for the next couple of weeks. But I
Speaker 1: will we'll see how much he really does matter. You know,
Speaker 1: if they come out on Sunday against the Colts that
Speaker 1: have a good front and you know DeForest Buckner, those
Speaker 1: guys come out and absolutely are you know, Max under siege,
Speaker 1: then maybe you do give a little bit of credit
Speaker 1: to to Clem and what he's been able to do.
Speaker 2: All right, you want to join us, you want to
Speaker 2: talk patch with us? Eight five five pats five hundred
Speaker 2: eight five five seven two eight seven five hundred. But
Speaker 2: let's go that. That leads us right into ups and downs. Evan,
Speaker 2: And honestly, my first up was Adrian Clem in the
Speaker 2: offensive line. Not the best offensive line game that's ever
Speaker 2: been played. But I think we talked about this in
Speaker 2: the offseason. The one guy this team could not afford
Speaker 2: to lose was Trent Brown and kind of the ripple
Speaker 2: effect that comes with playing without him. And I thought,
Speaker 2: all that considered, against the opponent they were playing, you
Speaker 2: got a pretty good game from the offensive line.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the offensive line was solid in this game.
Speaker 1: I had Mike on when who wasn't up on an
Speaker 1: individual level, Mike on when who allowed one quarterback hit
Speaker 1: in this game? And it was it was pretty late
Speaker 1: in the game. And it seems like every game against
Speaker 1: Miami he led up to sack eight in the game
Speaker 1: that there's one rep a game in pass pro that
Speaker 1: he gets beat. And if that's what all that's happening
Speaker 1: for your right tackle, like, that's a pretty good good
Speaker 1: day at the office. I mean, well, the film that
Speaker 1: he's been able to put out there at tackle over
Speaker 1: the last three weeks after really only playing exclusively at guard.
Speaker 1: And I had asked him about this in the locker
Speaker 1: room before we came out here, about what he did
Speaker 1: to Yeah, it's pretty incredible that he's been this good
Speaker 1: at tackle, just kind of flipped the switch over there
Speaker 1: for the offensive line. And he said that in the
Speaker 1: offseason he was doing some tackle training, just thinking in
Speaker 1: the back of his head like this could happen, right,
Speaker 1: so let's work on some sets and some things like that,
Speaker 1: like I'm playing tackle just to be ready. And it's
Speaker 1: been remarkable how easily he's just transitioned outside to tackle
Speaker 1: and how natural he looks at that spot. And it
Speaker 1: does make a big difference having him in the run
Speaker 1: game because whether it's a double team block with City
Speaker 1: so or he's kicking out the edge defender, that becomes
Speaker 1: a lot more space there now because he's they have
Speaker 1: an impact run blocker at that spot as well. So
Speaker 1: he's been exceptional at tackle to the point where if
Speaker 1: I'm his agent and I'm looking at next offseason, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm doing. I'm saying, I'm putting the tackle
Speaker 1: film out there, say you know this guy's a tackle,
Speaker 1: you better pay him like it. He was exceptional in
Speaker 1: this game, and I think he's honestly been tremendous since
Speaker 1: moving out there.
Speaker 2: So he was one of my ups I'm petitioning if
Speaker 2: I'm his agent. NFL dot com has owned Win, who
Speaker 2: listed as a guard. The Patriots just haven't listed as
Speaker 2: an offensive lineman as they do with I think it's
Speaker 2: just David Andrews is the only one who's listed as
Speaker 2: a center. I think everybody else is just listened ol.
Speaker 2: NFL dot com has Mike when Winn, who listed as
Speaker 2: a guard. If I'm his agent, I'm call whoever runs
Speaker 2: the NFL website and saying, hey, can we get you
Speaker 2: know the team website listen as an offensive lineman. Can
Speaker 2: we get those two lined up there? Because that might
Speaker 2: help the old Remember Jimmy Graham when the Saints franchise
Speaker 2: tagged him and he was trying to get franchise tags
Speaker 2: as a receiver, not a tight end. And it went
Speaker 2: to court and a big part of the deciding factor
Speaker 2: was it said in his Twitter bio New Orleans Saints
Speaker 2: tight end. Yeah, And they were like, well you advertise
Speaker 2: sales tight anyway, I just find that story funny. Any
Speaker 2: chance bringing up another up for me? And it's another
Speaker 2: kind of group one. I'll we'll get to the downs.
Speaker 2: The Patriots defense did not play well in this game.
Speaker 2: There were two glaring exceptions to that. To Von godcha
Speaker 2: On Christian Barmore, they were both awesome. It's not just
Speaker 2: they were like everybody else was bad and they were fine.
Speaker 2: They were both really good in this game. Devon Godchaw
Speaker 2: in that second quarter he had he helped on the
Speaker 2: forced fumble which he then recovered. He holds the backup
Speaker 2: for Jelani to Via to punch the ball out and
Speaker 2: then god Chaw himself recover. But there was also he
Speaker 2: read a screen really well. At one point took away
Speaker 2: the window. There are a couple other times he just
Speaker 2: got pressure on Sam how I thought Devon gotchaw. This
Speaker 2: might have been his best game of the year. And
Speaker 2: Christian Barmore just dominated again. He was pushing offensive lineman back.
Speaker 2: Two more pass breakups for him at the line of
Speaker 2: scrimmage after those two guys. Again, there's nobody really behind
Speaker 2: him capitalizing on what they were doing. But I thought
Speaker 2: those two guys in particular, and for Barmore, it stands
Speaker 2: out because he's put together, you know, four or five
Speaker 2: of these now. I thought the two defensive tackles played
Speaker 2: incredibly well.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I had Barmore as my number one up in
Speaker 1: this okame he is, he's in Fuego Alex. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: on an absolute heater the last month of the season.
Speaker 1: You can make a case that Christian Barmore has been
Speaker 1: the best defensive tackle in football. I mean, he's been
Speaker 1: that good. I had eight quarterback pressures in this game,
Speaker 1: added two bad passes as well. I thought that there
Speaker 1: were some good reps against the run. He didn't have
Speaker 1: as many stuffs in this game as he's had the
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks. But he was doing his thing
Speaker 1: in the two gap and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: The pressure on the quarterback, he is a problem. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's not only getting some of those you know threat
Speaker 1: in the edge like he did in Miami on that sack,
Speaker 1: but he's also going through guys too and creating penetration
Speaker 1: to allow others to you know, wrap around it on
Speaker 1: those stunts that they like to run on the interior.
Speaker 1: Mac Wilson had three pressures in this game. All three
Speaker 1: of them were just wrapping around Christian Barmore. You know,
Speaker 1: just Barmore is getting the guy that's getting the interior
Speaker 1: penetration and push and it's just opening up all this stuff.
Speaker 1: He is playing like we really thought he was going
Speaker 1: to play after his rookie season, Like this was the
Speaker 1: hope was that he was going to play at this level.
Speaker 1: He's another guy that I think you have to start
Speaker 1: talking about as an extension candidate in the offseason, as
Speaker 1: someone that you want to build around on the defensive front.
Speaker 1: He was exceptional again in this game. Like I mentioned,
Speaker 1: with eight quarterback pressures, that was a game high. It's
Speaker 1: as high as the season as well. He's got as
Speaker 1: many quarterback pressures as pretty much any defensive lineman, you know,
Speaker 1: interior defensive lineman taking out the sub you know, the
Speaker 1: edge rushers or the pass rush linebackers and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: You just look at defensive linemen you know, d tackles,
Speaker 1: dns that have played their hand in the dirt. He's
Speaker 1: second in the league right now over the last month
Speaker 1: and quarterback pressures among that group. So he's definitely doing
Speaker 1: his thing and it's great to see him do that
Speaker 1: after last year, which I think we can now determine
Speaker 1: that was injuries just not just a bad year for him.
Speaker 1: And you know, now we see the potential again and
Speaker 1: hopefully that arrow keeps pointing upward. But I have him
Speaker 1: with four games in a row. Now, I went back
Speaker 1: and looked where he was my number one up four
Speaker 1: in a row.
Speaker 2: So yeah, no, that's a guy. When we get to
Speaker 2: the offseason we do the next group of extensions, I
Speaker 2: think that there'll be a lot of talk about mac
Speaker 2: Jones contract in the fifth year option. But from that class,
Speaker 2: I mean, who are you pounding the table for an
Speaker 2: extension for. It's got to be Christian Barmore. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's the guy I think you resign him. You re
Speaker 2: signed dugger. They have Juwan Bentley Boom. You have established
Speaker 2: players at all three levels now and that's your core
Speaker 2: defensively essentially, and that's the group you're building around. It's
Speaker 2: not a bad group to be. And then you have
Speaker 2: Christian Zalez at corner as well on his rookie contract.
Speaker 2: I should bring him into this. That's a good defensive corps.
Speaker 2: That's a solid defensive core. And then maybe you get
Speaker 2: Anthony Jennings back on a team friendly deal because he
Speaker 2: you know, he's had a good year and that might
Speaker 2: be a guy that's I think there's a chance he
Speaker 2: comes back here because there's probably more playing time from
Speaker 2: here than there is in most other defenses. You go out,
Speaker 2: you get a free safety and you're in good shape.
Speaker 2: So yeah, Christian Barmore, very very exciting player right now.
Speaker 2: My third up, Ermandre Stevenson. I looked a little slow
Speaker 2: to start the year, but you saw it on the
Speaker 2: big run. He's got his burst back. There are a
Speaker 2: couple other times too, you know, catching passes in the flat.
Speaker 2: I know he had a drop, but I thought overall
Speaker 2: this was an encouraging game for him.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, the big run like you said, was the burst. Yeah, Now,
Speaker 1: he hadn't been really seeing at times the beginning of
Speaker 1: the year. It's amazing when you open up some space
Speaker 1: for him, though, what he's gonna be able to write
Speaker 1: to Uh, So that that definitely happened. I like the
Speaker 1: you know, I broke it down this scheme on that
Speaker 1: play to have Gasiki run a route from the slot
Speaker 1: really pulled the defender out of the fit and that
Speaker 1: kind of opened up an entire lane along with some
Speaker 1: good blocks. I mentioned Strange's block City so obviously had
Speaker 1: a nice block on that play, you know, just a
Speaker 1: base block. Andrews picked up the blitz and you have
Speaker 1: riger As much as if we're gonna talk about Rager
Speaker 1: in a second, I think, uh, he did take a
Speaker 1: great block on the Ribandre run, So that that was
Speaker 1: that was encouraging to see the burst and the breakaway speed.
Speaker 1: You mentioned the past game stuff. I thought he was
Speaker 1: so much better in this game getting out of the backfield.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the games, uh this season,
Speaker 1: he's taken too long to make himself available to the quarterback.
Speaker 1: He's either dancing or he's trying to make too many
Speaker 1: moves to get open at the top of the route
Speaker 1: or just kind of just taking his time, sweet time
Speaker 1: getting out of the backfud and you're watching the tape,
Speaker 1: you're just like get you know, run right, get out
Speaker 1: of there and make yourself available to the quarterback. This
Speaker 1: offense needs that. I know that some people kind of
Speaker 1: scoff at the idea of, you know, a third down
Speaker 1: back and how important it might actually be. I think
Speaker 1: that this team definitely needs it, and if Remandre it
Speaker 1: can be a matchup weapon against linebackers like he was
Speaker 1: last week. It was pretty clear. I know they mentioned
Speaker 1: after the game Mac did that Emanuel Forbes was on
Speaker 1: their target list and that didn't end up going so
Speaker 1: well for them, but I think it was It was
Speaker 1: really clear that Jermaine Davis, the linebacker for the Commanders,
Speaker 1: if they got Remandre one on one against Jermaine Davis,
Speaker 1: they were taking that matchup and he was winning it
Speaker 1: on Sunday. He should have had the wheel round too,
Speaker 1: and if you would have that in there, then we're
Speaker 1: talking about a huge, huge day production wise. So I
Speaker 1: thought he was really really good in this game as well.
Speaker 2: Again, you want to chat with us eight five to
Speaker 2: five Pats five hundred is the number. We'll get you
Speaker 2: right on because I'm in on the phones today not
Speaker 2: having eight. Who's your third up?
Speaker 1: I had? Those are my three where.
Speaker 2: Yeamandre and Mike. Yeah, all right, so we can get
Speaker 2: into the downs now. And my first down, I guess
Speaker 2: because you see, I don't do mine in order, like
Speaker 2: I know you rank yours. I just kind of pick
Speaker 2: three my first down from this game. Again, it's another
Speaker 2: one where I'm combining players Jalen Rager and Taekwon Thornton.
Speaker 2: There was a real chance for somebody to emerge as
Speaker 2: that third wide receiver between Juju Smith, Schuster, Jamaario Douglas,
Speaker 2: those are gonna be your one and two, right and
Speaker 2: Kayshun Boody's taken out of the picture before the game,
Speaker 2: and we can get to that. But Rager like he
Speaker 2: dropped the pass. Besides that, I thought he was fine.
Speaker 2: He had the block with I hold it against unless, Like,
Speaker 2: there's a reason he's on his third team in four years.
Speaker 2: There's a reason he was available. There's a reason he's
Speaker 2: a recent first round pick that's struggling to get playing
Speaker 2: time on a two win team. You kind of expected that,
Speaker 2: So I'm not saying it's a good play. It doesn't
Speaker 2: excuse it for me. It's Taekwon Thornton. This was a
Speaker 2: real missed opportunity because he hasn't been able to get
Speaker 2: on the field, not just because of injuries, but he's
Speaker 2: been buried behind this depth chart going back to the
Speaker 2: summer when he was healthy. Remember he got demoted to
Speaker 2: that second unit in training camp. Well, here you go.
Speaker 2: They have to play you, they have to put you
Speaker 2: on the field. Mac Jones is trying to give him opportunities.
Speaker 2: There's four targets in the first twelve snaps. Now one
Speaker 2: of them was a bad miss by Mac, and Thornton
Speaker 2: probably has a touchdown if Mac puts it on him.
Speaker 2: Thornton also could have gotten out of the break a
Speaker 2: little quicker, but that's on Mac. But after that, I
Speaker 2: mean there's clear miscommunications. He runs a bad route on
Speaker 2: a third down right in front of Bill Belichick. He
Speaker 2: watched the replay. You could see Bill Belichick's reaction in
Speaker 2: real time, and then he doesn't play again. Played twelve snaps,
Speaker 2: had four targets in the first quarter, and called first
Speaker 2: eighteen minutes of the game. I think it was eleven
Speaker 2: to twenty four in the second quarter was the time
Speaker 2: on the clock on that last snap, and then didn't
Speaker 2: play again, and Bill Belichick said after the game he
Speaker 2: was healthy, he was available. He was removed from the
Speaker 2: injury report this week. So that was as good of
Speaker 2: a chance as he was gonna have, I think, to
Speaker 2: establish himself and be that second round pick and be
Speaker 2: that speed threat that he was drafted to be. And
Speaker 2: even with Mac Jones missed a side on that fourth down,
Speaker 2: clearly there was something in there that the team saw
Speaker 2: that they were like, we can't put this guy on
Speaker 2: the field with no other options. We're gonna go in
Speaker 2: twelve heavy and throw Mike Kasiki out there. I think
Speaker 2: it was like seventy percent of the time. Yeah, they
Speaker 2: did that over putting Taekwon on the field, and I
Speaker 2: think that's a major missed opportunity for him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I one hundred percent agree. I had Taekwon as well,
Speaker 1: and I also loved him together with Kalen Rager. But
Speaker 1: I think your point is valid that Rager, it's not
Speaker 1: on Riger that he's not the guy you saw.
Speaker 2: Like if you told me, all right, Jalen Riger is
Speaker 2: gonna go out there, He's gonna set a big block,
Speaker 2: he's gonna catch a quickslane, he's gonna drop the pass.
Speaker 2: I'd be like, all right, yeah, that's about right.
Speaker 1: Yeah right. So I think it's a little not harsh
Speaker 1: to put Rager in the downs because he probably deserves
Speaker 1: to be there. But it's just not it's blaming the
Speaker 1: wrong guy.
Speaker 2: It's it's different degree. There's different degrees to it. Like
Speaker 2: you have to mention the drop in this conversation because
Speaker 2: it happened, it was a story, it changed the game.
Speaker 2: You can't ignore that. But it rank how you know,
Speaker 2: how emphatically you're putting them on there. On a scale
Speaker 2: of one to ten, the degree to which Taekwon Thornton
Speaker 2: is down is greater than the degree to which Jalen Raigers.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I couldn't agree more when I when I look
Speaker 1: at Taekwon, I do think there is something to be said.
Speaker 1: And I'm not sitting here telling you that if they
Speaker 1: had him running a different rout tree that he would
Speaker 1: be at a thousand yard receiver and be this, you know,
Speaker 1: all pro level player or anything like that. But it
Speaker 1: is interesting to me that I feel like, especially at
Speaker 1: the intermediate level, they have him trying to run these
Speaker 1: pretty advanced routes, like the route that he ran on
Speaker 1: fourth down, which was an okay route. I mean, I
Speaker 1: agree with you that maybe he was a little bit
Speaker 1: slow getting out of the break, but he got open.
Speaker 1: That's the bottom of line.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, he was open. He yeah, yeah, he got open.
Speaker 2: That round me mention him at the top of the
Speaker 2: route was just me being a mac apologist.
Speaker 1: Now, no, no, and I agree with you that it wasn't.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was a great route. Yeah, But
Speaker 1: the bottom line is is that that's a pretty like
Speaker 1: nuanced route, right, you know you're talking about it's it's
Speaker 1: essentially a post corner. You know, he's faking that he's
Speaker 1: going to break in on a post and then he
Speaker 1: breaks out on the corner. They sometimes call it an
Speaker 1: inverted over where they're like faking a crosser and then
Speaker 1: breaking out on the corner. But either way, you're you're
Speaker 1: talking about routes that some of their more dynamic route
Speaker 1: runners and and high advanced route runners over the years.
Speaker 1: Edelman Jakobe meers like that, that's the route that a
Speaker 1: lot of those guys ran a ton and I just
Speaker 1: I look at Taekwon and he should be running he
Speaker 1: should be running wind sprints that that that's the bottom line,
Speaker 1: Like he should be running verticals all over the field,
Speaker 1: whether it's a cross deep, cross post, go ball whatever.
Speaker 1: And some of the time with him, he's not going
Speaker 1: to get the ball. That it's the bottom line, Like
Speaker 1: he's not gonna be a high volume guy in that role.
Speaker 1: He's gonna be clearing out a lot of space for others.
Speaker 1: And I think what type where Taekwon can almost help
Speaker 1: himself the most and to get on the field at
Speaker 1: least over Jalen Rager, which is just a jump that
Speaker 1: this guy can't play over Jalen Rager is sometimes I
Speaker 1: see with him on the tape that he doesn't always
Speaker 1: run the route hard if he knows he's not in
Speaker 1: the progression. And that's the type of thing that the
Speaker 1: coaches are gonna are gonna hate. That's gonna drive them nuts.
Speaker 1: Like you, even though you're not necessarily in the progression
Speaker 1: for the quarterback as an option in the play, your
Speaker 1: role on the play is really important. So if you're
Speaker 1: not running that route and you're not taking that safety
Speaker 1: or you're not clearing out that sideline for the routes
Speaker 1: to fill in then the play, the whole play doesn't
Speaker 1: work even if the ball is not coming your direction.
Speaker 1: So he's gotta be cleaner in those types of areas
Speaker 1: to the point where he's just you put him out
Speaker 1: there just to be Jalen Rager, right, like, just run
Speaker 1: the verticals and if the ball comes your way, try
Speaker 1: to make a play. But it's probably only going to
Speaker 1: come your way a couple times a game. And that's
Speaker 1: where we're out with Taekwon. But his his just overall
Speaker 1: focus on the field is a problem. Like his route,
Speaker 1: the way that he understands, like his role in the play,
Speaker 1: it's all all that type of mental stuff is an issue,
Speaker 1: and I think that that's something that is holding him back,
Speaker 1: maybe more than anything else. And why every time we
Speaker 1: talk to O'Brien about about Taekwon, he's mentioning, you know,
Speaker 1: he's been hurt and he hasn't doesn't have the reps, right,
Speaker 1: doesn't have the reps. And that tells you right then
Speaker 1: and there that he's making mental errors on the field,
Speaker 1: Like that's that's what's happening. So I do I think
Speaker 1: that physically he would be this incredible player, No, of
Speaker 1: course not. But I think that he could be useful
Speaker 1: for them because of the speed, if he was able
Speaker 1: to show the coaches that he could do some of
Speaker 1: those little things a little bit better that he hasn't
Speaker 1: been doing so frustrating player. I mean we I was
Speaker 1: skeptical to pick at the time just because of the
Speaker 1: type of player that he was. But even if you
Speaker 1: just give them the benefit of the doubt that they
Speaker 1: saw him as somebody that was gonna be a real
Speaker 1: field stretcher for them and impact the game that way
Speaker 1: without necessarily impacting the game at a high volume targets wise,
Speaker 1: it just Dad hasn't even come to fruition either, So
Speaker 1: all of it is just a mess with him right now.
Speaker 2: We also have to remember he was drafted to play
Speaker 2: in a different offense than the one he's playing it.
Speaker 2: On top of that, because they drafted him.
Speaker 1: I have to that's another benefit of the doubt thing, right,
Speaker 1: like you have to.
Speaker 2: No, it's not a ben for the doubt thing. I'm saying,
Speaker 2: like they they I think that's they drafted him for
Speaker 2: an offense that was never gonna work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess my benefit of the doubt point is
Speaker 1: more if that was the if they drafted him to
Speaker 1: play more of like a Shanahan offense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was the plan, And he.
Speaker 1: Was supposed to be the guy that was running the
Speaker 1: deep post and just occupying players down the fields that
Speaker 1: they could open up the throws underneath that Shanahan's tree
Speaker 1: loves the incuts, the crossers, things like that. Then then
Speaker 1: I understand the vision a little bit more, I suppose.
Speaker 1: But I think that's giving them a lot of almost
Speaker 1: credit at this point at that position because we've seen
Speaker 1: them fail in so many different ways at the top
Speaker 1: of the draft that with taking receivers that I can't
Speaker 1: necessarily chuck it all up to that, Like I feel
Speaker 1: like they are evaluation of players at the wide receiver
Speaker 1: position is a too spotty in the draft to just say, oh, well,
Speaker 1: if he was in the Shanahan offense, he would be
Speaker 1: a different player. And I know that's not what you're saying.
Speaker 1: I'm just right. I think that that's just a really
Speaker 1: a point that I find, like, all right, well, you
Speaker 1: drafted two guys at the receiver position in the top
Speaker 1: fifty in the last five years and both of them
Speaker 1: can't play.
Speaker 2: While we're on the receivers, what are your thoughts on
Speaker 2: Kaishan Boody in that old situation.
Speaker 1: So I really do wonder what's going on with Kaishan
Speaker 1: Boody because to me, there's no way that I can
Speaker 1: really think of that they didn't have him, like he
Speaker 1: wasn't gonna play at all, like that was the plan
Speaker 1: the whole week, right, Like I guess that is what
Speaker 1: I'm saying.
Speaker 2: So do you buy the theory that? Because he talked
Speaker 2: to us on Friday and he said something like, you know,
Speaker 2: I've been playing some weeks, but my numbers being called
Speaker 2: and I need to be ready to go. Do you
Speaker 2: buy the theory that the coaching staff was basically upset
Speaker 2: that he said that, and this was that no, no, no,
Speaker 2: you don't decide and you're gonna play. We decided and
Speaker 2: you're gonna play.
Speaker 1: It's as good of a theory as any. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I'm I can say I'd buy into any
Speaker 1: theory because I don't know, but it's just hard to
Speaker 1: fathom anything else happening.
Speaker 2: So I have one other go ahead, and then I
Speaker 2: have one other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just look at and I'm not putting him
Speaker 1: in the same category as the two corners as J. C.
Speaker 1: Jackson and Jack Jones, which we can talk about, yeah,
Speaker 1: if you want. I'm not putting him in that category.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying he did something like that. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, when you have other guys that are
Speaker 1: doing that in this locker room now because of the
Speaker 1: state of the team and the record and all that stuff,
Speaker 1: and I'm not making excuses for those guys. I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: this is what happens on bad football teams. Guys check out,
Speaker 1: Guys prioritize other things. They stopped really caring. And that's
Speaker 1: just some guys are just wired that way. And with Booty,
Speaker 1: you have to wonder if that's permeating the whole locker
Speaker 1: room a little bit, and there was something extracurricular or
Speaker 1: something different that wasn't just football that kept him off
Speaker 1: the field, because it's so hard to imagine that they
Speaker 1: all week long, that was the buzz, that was the
Speaker 1: build up. He was talking about it. Belichick says, he
Speaker 1: has the best week of practice in since being a Patriot,
Speaker 1: and then he's inactive in the game on Sunday, like
Speaker 1: there's That's the only explanation is that something else happened.
Speaker 2: So the one other thing I looked at and I
Speaker 2: don't know, may even get into it in the Samantics.
Speaker 2: So the whole reason we got all excited about Kishon
Speaker 2: Buoti last week, on top of the injuries and the
Speaker 2: fact that, like they numbers wise, it looked like he
Speaker 2: was gonna have to play, was Bill Belichick's comments on
Speaker 2: Friday saying he had his best week of practice of
Speaker 2: the year. At no point did he say it was
Speaker 2: a good week of practice and was it something that
Speaker 2: was just hey, like his best right now still isn't
Speaker 2: good enough, and we just misinterpreted it and ran it's
Speaker 2: the only other thing I can think of. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: that that in itself doesn't make a ton of sense either.
Speaker 2: But I just think with him with Kayshawn Booty, I
Speaker 2: get why he didn't play earlier in the year. And
Speaker 2: this goes back to something we talked about going all
Speaker 2: the way back to the spring. His skill set is
Speaker 2: very similar to Kendrick Bourne's, and is their room to
Speaker 2: have both of them on the field at the same time,
Speaker 2: plus Juju and Juju there's some overlap with him too.
Speaker 2: But when Kendrick Bourne became their best receiver and became
Speaker 2: the guy that wasn't coming off the fields. Yeah, there
Speaker 2: really wasn't a lot of room for kash On Boody
Speaker 2: to play. Now that Kendrick Bourne's hurt, that changes. And
Speaker 2: the other thing is Kishun Booty is a little bit
Speaker 2: of a project player. I'm not saying that I'm upset
Speaker 2: they're not playing him because oh they're leaving like eight
Speaker 2: catches in one hundred yards and two touchdowns a game
Speaker 2: on the batch. That's not what I'm saying, And I
Speaker 2: think it's being misinterpreted that way at times for the
Speaker 2: people who are like, why isn't this guy on the field,
Speaker 2: It's more we don't know what he is, but it
Speaker 2: would be nice to find out. And when you're a
Speaker 2: contending team, you don't necessarily the most valuable reps, like
Speaker 2: players grow in practice and players can learn in practice
Speaker 2: the most valuable reps to develop a player or game reps.
Speaker 2: But when you're a contending team, you can't put unknown
Speaker 2: players on the field. You're trying to win football games.
Speaker 2: They're in a spot right now between the injuries and
Speaker 2: the record where put Kayshaun Booty out there and see
Speaker 2: what he can do. And if you're worried he's not ready,
Speaker 2: putting him into an NFL game, is gonna be a
Speaker 2: great way to maybe drag him along. If they just
Speaker 2: think he's at the point where he's never gonna be ready,
Speaker 2: then why is he on the roster. That would be
Speaker 2: my point, either develop him or move on, and right
Speaker 2: now they're not doing either. He's just kind of in
Speaker 2: this limbo. So that's why, like last week, to me especially,
Speaker 2: is so weird because Kendric Born's hurt. Now they're at
Speaker 2: two and six. At that point, what do you have
Speaker 2: to lose by putting him out there? I understood it
Speaker 2: earlier in the year. I think they're at a point
Speaker 2: now where going into the offseason, I don't know that
Speaker 2: he's gonna come out and show you that he's the
Speaker 2: one one right. I don't know that you're gonna get
Speaker 2: let's say he plays from here on out. I don't
Speaker 2: know that he's gonna play at a level where you're like,
Speaker 2: all right, they don't need draft Marvin Harrison Junior anymore.
Speaker 2: I don't know that he's gonna be that guy. But
Speaker 2: can he prove that he can be a capable third
Speaker 2: wide receiver, because they you look at the guys they
Speaker 2: have Kendric Born's contract is up, and even if he
Speaker 2: comes back coming off the torn ACL, he's an unknown
Speaker 2: Parker and Juju haven't hit. Rager's an unexpiring deal. But
Speaker 2: how much you're counting on him anyway, it's really just
Speaker 2: Pop Douglas is the only guy under contract next year
Speaker 2: that you're counting on at the wide receiver position. So
Speaker 2: you add bodies. It's not just adding Marvin Harrison Junior.
Speaker 2: It's not just adding t Higgins. They're gonna have to
Speaker 2: add a couple of players. If Kayshaun Boody goes out there,
Speaker 2: you're like, yeah, this guy's like a capable third, fourth
Speaker 2: wide receiver. It's not groundbreaking, it doesn't necessarily change the landscape,
Speaker 2: but that's one less guy you got to add. That's
Speaker 2: you know what, would you pay a third wide receiver
Speaker 2: five million, six million dollars a year. That's five or
Speaker 2: six million dollars you can now allocate elsewhere. It's a
Speaker 2: roster spot you can now allocate elsewhere. So just finding
Speaker 2: out what he can do, I think would be the thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's totally where I'm at with it too. I
Speaker 1: one hundred percent agree with you that so many people
Speaker 1: respond I'm sure to me they do. To me, I'm
Speaker 1: speaking for myself, but I'm sure they'll be the same
Speaker 1: thing with you where they're like, you know, why do
Speaker 1: you guys think that Kashan Booty is this like diamond
Speaker 1: in the rough or this guy that they're just keeping
Speaker 1: this guy off the off the field that's gonna you know,
Speaker 1: a thousand yard receiver and they're not playing him. That's
Speaker 1: not what we're saying where we just want to evaluate
Speaker 1: Kaishan Boody in a game, like we just want to
Speaker 1: see what it looks like in a game. Because of
Speaker 1: your point, exactly, what if Kashan Boody is good enough
Speaker 1: to be a number three receiver and now you know
Speaker 1: that you have a number three receiver, but what if
Speaker 1: Kaishon Boody is good enough to be a number four receiver,
Speaker 1: like just somebody on the roster that can contribute to
Speaker 1: a team. Then you have him, you have Pop Douglas,
Speaker 1: like you have some guys that are tertiary or complimentary weapons.
Speaker 1: We know that this team needs number one receivers. We
Speaker 1: know that they need a T. Higgins or they need
Speaker 1: a Marvin Harrison junior. We know they need a guy
Speaker 1: a dude, We know that, but they also have to
Speaker 1: field an eleven guys on offense, right, So if Pop
Speaker 1: Douglas and Kaishaan Boody can be good two and a
Speaker 1: good number two and a good number three like now,
Speaker 1: you have the bones of just dropping in these missing
Speaker 1: pieces and having something offensively. And that's the big thing
Speaker 1: with Kaishan Boody. It's not that we all think that
Speaker 1: he's gonna break out and be this superstar player for them,
Speaker 1: it's just can he be an NFL player for them
Speaker 1: moving forward? Is a big deal in the in the
Speaker 1: you know, it's not the big big deal like getting
Speaker 1: that number one guy, but it's not a moot point either,
Speaker 1: like that that still matters to this team. And you mentioned,
Speaker 1: you know his role, and we've both been talking about
Speaker 1: this that he's really ideally more of that like Z's
Speaker 1: slot inside outside type of guy, not a permanent, you
Speaker 1: know X type of player like he was playing in
Speaker 1: Week one against Philly. So even if you give them
Speaker 1: the benefit of doubt in that sense that Kendrick Bourne,
Speaker 1: Juju Smith Schuster, Pop Douglas are all also guys that
Speaker 1: are gonna play a lot of snaps inside. So there's
Speaker 1: not enough snaps to go around. At that point, you
Speaker 1: say that, no Kendrick Bourne anymore. Juju Smith Schuster played
Speaker 1: twenty three snaps in this game on Sunday, thirty six
Speaker 1: percent of the snaps, so he didn't even really have
Speaker 1: a huge role either. So at some point you have
Speaker 1: to look at it and say, you know, it wouldn't
Speaker 1: have heard to give Kaishawn Boody. You know the twelve
Speaker 1: reps can that Taekwon Thornton got in this game, right,
Speaker 1: you know, he gave him the booty or give six
Speaker 1: to Booty and six to Thornton or whatever you want
Speaker 1: to talk about with divving them up. It wouldn't have
Speaker 1: hurt them at all. But I just their management of
Speaker 1: that position, whether it's the players they're picking, the way
Speaker 1: that they're utilizing those players, the way that they're utilizing,
Speaker 1: or just talking about who's inactive, who's active, who's playing
Speaker 1: in the game, all of it is. It has been terrible.
Speaker 1: It's been a mess. Like they're all over the place
Speaker 1: with that wide receiver position. And it's not just talent evaluation.
Speaker 1: They also are all over the place with how they
Speaker 1: play these guys, and they got to figure it out,
Speaker 1: and I've been saying it for a long time now
Speaker 1: about Troy Brown, Like Troy Brown is on my radar
Speaker 1: as somebody that was a great, great player here represents
Speaker 1: all the right things about the Patriots in the Patriot way.
Speaker 1: But I think it's more than fair to start being
Speaker 1: critical of Troy Brown the coach and what he's really
Speaker 1: capable of bringing to the table in terms of coaching
Speaker 1: these guys up. Because at that position it's been the
Speaker 1: same thing for a couple of years now. You know,
Speaker 1: poor route detail, poor spacing, poor timing with the quarterback
Speaker 1: at the receiver position. Guy's not developing. You know, the
Speaker 1: guy's not getting better at that spot that dad needs
Speaker 1: to improve. Like even a guy like Pop Douglass and
Speaker 1: we both really like and have like this whole time, Alex,
Speaker 1: he still makes the same mistakes every single week. And
Speaker 1: are the mistakes agreed so egregious that he should be
Speaker 1: pulled off the field. No, of course not, because the
Speaker 1: good stuff still outweighs the bad. But it's not like
Speaker 1: he's improving on any like, he's still making route running issues,
Speaker 1: he's still has spacing issues. So who's coaching him in
Speaker 1: those areas? Like who's helping him out with those things
Speaker 1: that that definitely needs to be under fire.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, i'd agree with you on that. Trying got caught.
Speaker 2: Jayman outs to music in the background.
Speaker 1: Second, No, they're playing music behind me and it's it's
Speaker 1: very very loud.
Speaker 2: Again, well it's in English. There's I was waiting for,
Speaker 2: like the German music.
Speaker 1: In English music for sure.
Speaker 2: All right, let's go, we'll make our way back through
Speaker 2: the downs here. We got two more, but let's go
Speaker 2: to Andrew and Boston.
Speaker 1: Andrew, Hey, what's going on?
Speaker 3: Hey, just wondering if do you think there might be
Speaker 3: some possibility that Jack Jones, Jacy Jackson and even maybe
Speaker 3: Kishon Moody were involved in any kind of like a
Speaker 3: scuffle or anything in practice if that caused what I
Speaker 3: was going with them anyway.
Speaker 2: Thanks thanks to Andrew. Yeah, I don't, I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't know. I don't think so. I think it was
Speaker 2: reported that Jackson and Jones mister curfew. So wait, that's
Speaker 2: I don't think there'd be anything on top of that, right,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm reading too much into that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think with the J C. Jack some situation
Speaker 1: and also with Jack Jones. I don't necessarily think that
Speaker 1: we need to like litigate the actual details of what
Speaker 1: happened or what it means for this team right this second,
Speaker 1: right because let's face it, this team right this right
Speaker 1: now is finishing out the string for this season. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so what it means in terms of all that,
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think matters. I think what matters is
Speaker 1: just philosophically. They need to get to a point where
Speaker 1: they're not relying on these guys, these unreliable players anymore.
Speaker 1: And I think that they're relying on guys like j C. Jackson.
Speaker 1: Obviously they traded back for him at a desperation at
Speaker 1: that position, and they're relying on guys like j C.
Speaker 1: They're lying on guys like Jack Jones because they don't
Speaker 1: have a lot of talent on this roster, and those
Speaker 1: guys have talent, and so they're the ones that are
Speaker 1: getting these opportunities with the Patriots now. And I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that they have to go in like draft only
Speaker 1: boy scouts and I'm not saying that, but they need
Speaker 1: to get players that they can rely on. That's an
Speaker 1: important thing, like maybe as almost as important in some
Speaker 1: respects as talent. It's guys that buy in and guys
Speaker 1: that want to be here, and guys that want to
Speaker 1: play hard every week. And I think that this team
Speaker 1: has fallen into a trap of you know, desperation needing talent.
Speaker 1: I don't think that he's an exact same category as
Speaker 1: the two corners, but I mentioned it with Trent Brown
Speaker 1: a little bit earlier, like they are so and we
Speaker 1: say it before, they're so reliant on Trent Brown and
Speaker 1: Trent Brown is an unreliable guy at times. So they
Speaker 1: have to get out of this rut of having a
Speaker 1: lot of guys on the roster who are in that category.
Speaker 1: And I would say that it starts with the cornerback
Speaker 1: position just because of what's going on right now and
Speaker 1: those two guys being kind of the poster child of
Speaker 1: this whole thing. But like next season, they need to
Speaker 1: get into a position where j C. Jackson and Jack
Speaker 1: Jones are not projected starters for this team because they
Speaker 1: can't be relied upon and such a big well.
Speaker 2: So that's where this is interesting for me. Like j C. Jackson,
Speaker 2: there's no more money on his contract, they can cut
Speaker 2: him there out from the cap hits all of it.
Speaker 2: He won't be back next year. Jack Jones is an
Speaker 2: interesting because we know they like him, or at least
Speaker 2: before this, we know they liked him, and it was
Speaker 2: clear what they were setting up Christians Alison. Jack Jones
Speaker 2: is your boundary corners with Marcus Jones on the slot
Speaker 2: and Jonathan Jones kind of as your floater, and that's
Speaker 2: what they wanted the secondary to be. And we talked
Speaker 2: about this a lot last offseason. They did not have
Speaker 2: enough size at that position, enough true boundary corners, and
Speaker 2: it hurt them. And Jack Jones is a guy that
Speaker 2: plays on the boundary. If he's not coming back, now
Speaker 2: you add corner to the list of needs, and maybe
Speaker 2: it's a guy like Isaiah Bolden coming back next year
Speaker 2: and performing. He obviously had a good summer before he
Speaker 2: got hurt and got placed on IR. But if you're
Speaker 2: gonna tell me Jack Jones isn' gonna start next year,
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, Okay. Cornerback is now up there on
Speaker 2: the list of need for the Patriots, and that's it's
Speaker 2: the list, and that list is growing and there's they
Speaker 2: have a lot of cap space, but there's only so
Speaker 2: much you can do in one offseason.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you that it does complicate things
Speaker 1: if you add corner, because I've been of the school
Speaker 1: of thought that their high end assets, their cap space,
Speaker 1: their top fifty picks, like those should all be going
Speaker 1: all of it should be going to offense. In my mind,
Speaker 1: like you had your defense draft last year, Bill, right,
Speaker 1: Like you've got the chance to draft all your defensive
Speaker 1: missing pieces last year. Now, if it's Christian Gonzales, it's
Speaker 1: Jonathan Jones back and kind of the you know, inside
Speaker 1: outside travel with those Z receiver types, if those are
Speaker 1: your two lynch pins in that group, and really all
Speaker 1: you're looking for is that elusive third corner that we
Speaker 1: keep talking about that I feel like they haven't had
Speaker 1: and what since like Jason mccorney or something like that,
Speaker 1: they haven't really had that reliable, stable third corner that
Speaker 1: is I think something that you could probably find in
Speaker 1: the middle rounds, Like I don't think you necessarily need
Speaker 1: to address that with this with a top fifty pick,
Speaker 1: Like you'll probably get that in the third or fourth round.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe a guy like Marcus Jones comes back
Speaker 1: and he's your nickel and John Jones still plays that
Speaker 1: kind of inside outside role. Gonzalez is obviously your number
Speaker 1: one boundary corner, and that's how it gets put together.
Speaker 1: I just think that in general, did Jack Jones thing.
Speaker 1: It's it's to me, it's over with Jack Jones, Like,
Speaker 1: not only did we know that he had all these
Speaker 1: concerns coming in the draft, with all this stuff in
Speaker 1: college that went on with him that made him a
Speaker 1: later round picked and he probably should have been just
Speaker 1: on talent alone. Do we all remember how his rookie
Speaker 1: season ended with the Patriots, right like they suspended him
Speaker 1: and shut him down, And now we have this thing
Speaker 1: with the curfew, like it's time to just cut bait.
Speaker 1: With Jack Jones, It's just not gonna work.
Speaker 2: Here, all right, Let's get back to Dopson down. So
Speaker 2: first down was receivers for both of us. Give my
Speaker 2: second down, I actually have four. My second down is tacklings.
Speaker 2: It's been a problem the last three weeks. They were
Speaker 2: a good tackling team at the beginning of the year,
Speaker 2: but especially this week as we look ahead to the
Speaker 2: Colts team that runs hard, has good ball carriers, they
Speaker 2: just they need to be better tacklers, playing and similar.
Speaker 2: And it's one thing when it's guys in the secondary.
Speaker 2: But when we have John Bentley missing tiger, I just
Speaker 2: say corners, and we have Juwan Bentley missing tackles, and
Speaker 2: we have Kyle Dugger missing tackles, we have Adrian Phillips.
Speaker 2: Those are guys that are supposed to be sure tacklers
Speaker 2: and they weren't last week.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, tackling is you know I had is just
Speaker 1: the entire secondary. But I think tackling is a fair
Speaker 1: way to put it, and that it was mostly those
Speaker 1: guys that were missing the tackles, right, So this is
Speaker 1: one of the worst secondary you know, the games for
Speaker 1: the secondary that I have seen the Patriots play since
Speaker 1: we started doing this out Like this was this was
Speaker 1: not professional. They were missing tackles, They're busting coverages left
Speaker 1: and right. They weren't overly competitive in coverage in this
Speaker 1: game in any way, shape or form, like whether they
Speaker 1: were busting the cover or they had their you know,
Speaker 1: they were tied together. They were just getting beat when
Speaker 1: they were tied together, so it didn't really make a
Speaker 1: difference one way or the other. You know, the big
Speaker 1: play to Pringle, like across the field throw that Sam
Speaker 1: Howell made, it's just a busted coverage they just don't
Speaker 1: have a flat defender in the zone, so there's just
Speaker 1: a wide open space for Pringle to just catch, like
Speaker 1: a ridiculous throw from Sam Howell that should never work
Speaker 1: in the NFL, but it worked because there's just nobody
Speaker 1: over there on that side of the field. I don't remember,
Speaker 1: you know, from just a fundamental standpoint, you know, knowing
Speaker 1: the coverage structure, you guys being in the right places,
Speaker 1: guys making tackles. I don't remember the Patriots defense in
Speaker 1: the back end ever looking this bad. This was a
Speaker 1: disaster game for all those guys. And I really don't
Speaker 1: think there are any sacred cows in that, Like, I
Speaker 1: don't think any of them played very well at all.
Speaker 1: And it was That's what I think one of the
Speaker 1: most frustrating things about this team and right now and
Speaker 1: about this record. If they they just were buttoned up
Speaker 1: with the details and the fundamentals and they didn't give
Speaker 1: up quarterback scrambles for twenty four yards on turning point.
Speaker 2: We're gonna get to that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if they just made these types of plays, you know,
Speaker 1: they don't bust coverages, all that type of thing, like
Speaker 1: they'd be okay defensively, would they be this great defense, No,
Speaker 1: of course not, but they would be okay defensively, and
Speaker 1: they they just aren't doing those things, and that's why
Speaker 1: they're losing games like they this game. And I say
Speaker 1: at the beginning, like this game should have just been
Speaker 1: like one of those ho hum Patriots games that we've
Speaker 1: seen over the last couple of years where a who
Speaker 1: knows what Sam Howell type of quarterback comes in here
Speaker 1: and they just win the game twenty to seventeen because
Speaker 1: they're just but end up enough on the details that
Speaker 1: they get away with some mistakes. And that is just
Speaker 1: not this game at all. That's not how they play
Speaker 1: it at all, especially in the secondary.
Speaker 2: Okay, speaking of not being buttoned up on the details,
Speaker 2: my third down special teams it was bad.
Speaker 1: It was bad.
Speaker 2: So I'll say this. Chad Rowl and Bryce Berner were good.
Speaker 2: They were good in this game, bold beyond them. That
Speaker 2: was one of the worst special teams games I've seen
Speaker 2: the Patriots play. You had the the kickoff return off
Speaker 2: the off the jump, but late in the game, I
Speaker 2: to the mac Wilson penalty, and I know some people
Speaker 2: have looked at it and try to see it's the
Speaker 2: lineup off sides or not really in that situation, shouldn't
Speaker 2: even be close.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you should not. It wasn't even a punk runch
Speaker 1: right like it sound like they are even trying to.
Speaker 2: Block it, right, don't give the ref the referees that
Speaker 2: window to call that that situation, all of it a
Speaker 2: bad penalty. And then Brendan's schooler with the whole as well,
Speaker 2: which was a little bit of a cell job. But again,
Speaker 2: don't put yourself in that situation. I cost Patriots significant
Speaker 2: field position. The mac Wilson penalty costs them timeouts, cost
Speaker 2: them time late in the game. Again, the details are
Speaker 2: just not there on special teams, which for a team
Speaker 2: that emphasizes special teams as much as they do and
Speaker 2: has some good special teams players. Again, I think the rookies,
Speaker 2: the Gigrin punter have been good this year. I know
Speaker 2: Ryland has some misses, but they're long, they're not chip
Speaker 2: shot kicks that he's missing. And Barringer shanked a couple
Speaker 2: of kicks early in the year, but he's been buttoned
Speaker 2: up since. I hope we get to seen hit the
Speaker 2: scoreboard this weekend in Germany. But the details aren't there.
Speaker 2: The whole thing with like, all right, well, Joe Judge
Speaker 2: is gonna go to special teams and get it back
Speaker 2: to what it was in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. We
Speaker 2: haven't seen that yet.
Speaker 1: No, No, And this I just think speaks to the
Speaker 1: bigger picture issues of this team of like if they're
Speaker 1: not buttoned up defensively and they don't just have this
Speaker 1: like sound defensive structure, and they're also making all these
Speaker 1: mistakes on special teams, like that's Bill Belichick, right, Like
Speaker 1: that's his bread and butter, right these two areas, And
Speaker 1: if the team isn't responding to the coaching in those
Speaker 1: two areas anymore, then that's a I don't know how
Speaker 1: you really look at it any other way in terms
Speaker 1: of all of the way that this has gone so
Speaker 1: far this season with Bill and the fact that those
Speaker 1: are the areas that are letting him down. Maybe the
Speaker 1: most outside of you know, obviously the passing game in
Speaker 1: the quarterback like they had to have known coming into
Speaker 1: the season that their passing game wasn't gonna be this
Speaker 1: like top five dropback passing game, Like they weren't going
Speaker 1: to ever be Miami or Kansas City or one of
Speaker 1: these just great passing offenses, so they had to win
Speaker 1: in these other areas, and they're not even doing that
Speaker 1: right now, So that's really problematic. The special teams think
Speaker 1: they had opportunities at the end of this game to
Speaker 1: put the offense on some shorter fields and make it
Speaker 1: easier on the offense to you know, get that go
Speaker 1: ahead score or at least tie the game. And they'd
Speaker 1: started their last three drives inside their own ten yard line.
Speaker 1: And this offense is not going to drive ninety plus
Speaker 1: yards to win the game. It's just not. So you
Speaker 1: have to be able to win those field position things,
Speaker 1: you know, the third down, third and two, right, they
Speaker 1: hit that little russing route over the middle of the
Speaker 1: off side and all that stuff like that. Those are
Speaker 1: the types of things that are just absolute killers for
Speaker 1: this team right now, because the field position, when you're
Speaker 1: trying to win on the margins, the field position is
Speaker 1: really important. Like that's how you're gonna win games is
Speaker 1: by doing those types of things, and they're not doing
Speaker 1: them right now.
Speaker 2: What's your third down?
Speaker 1: So I had the secondary, I had the two receivers
Speaker 1: Taekwon and Rager, and I had mac as down as well.
Speaker 1: In this game, We've already litigated Mac enough, but I
Speaker 1: just would say just to to button it up. You
Speaker 1: know the last thing. If I was Bill O'Brien, and
Speaker 1: I think that this has got to be what they're doing,
Speaker 1: Like you just got to come to him and just
Speaker 1: be like, look, slow down, right, like just relax a
Speaker 1: little bit. Like your protection has been a little bit better.
Speaker 1: You know, you're not gonna your receivers. We know what
Speaker 1: you're working with, but just trust the play, trust the protection,
Speaker 1: and just go out there and play cammer like you're
Speaker 1: you're all sped up and you're you're letting yourself unravel.
Speaker 1: Like just calm down, settle your feet down, settle your
Speaker 1: eyes down, and just play football. And I think that's
Speaker 1: what they have to get to with mag I wonder
Speaker 1: with him, how much do you think, you know, is
Speaker 1: he maybe thinking about all these other factors, Like he
Speaker 1: gets asked after the game, and I know, you know,
Speaker 1: people that like to get all hot and bothered about
Speaker 1: these types of things talked about it on some other
Speaker 1: shows and things like that about the response to my
Speaker 1: Giardi's question about the lack of open receivers that he
Speaker 1: has to throw to. And I don't whether he agrees
Speaker 1: with the criticism or not. I'm more concerned about him
Speaker 1: believing the criticism, right, him sitting there saying, well, I
Speaker 1: just how am I supposed to do that? And then
Speaker 1: and then it becomes like this impossible task just to
Speaker 1: make throws even when they're there. And if you're Mac,
Speaker 1: you have to remove yourself from the narratives and just
Speaker 1: focus on what you can control and what you can
Speaker 1: do at your position and then see where it goes
Speaker 1: from there.
Speaker 2: So I, did you just do three ups three downs?
Speaker 2: You've done? Yes, Okay, so I'll say on that because
Speaker 2: I have one more down and I want to get
Speaker 2: into the colts. But I think it was it was
Speaker 2: the open to the mailbag this week, right that you
Speaker 2: wrote about Mac jaw So, Evan, I couldn't have nailed,
Speaker 2: couldn't hit the nail on the head anymore about Mac
Speaker 2: Jones standing with the team where the faults lie for
Speaker 2: how he's played for the offenses played. I thought, and
Speaker 2: I know some screen grabs of it we're going around
Speaker 2: on Twitter, but I thought Evan did a fantastic job
Speaker 2: on that. And you know I'm serious because I'm complimenting Evan.
Speaker 2: You're out, so I would encourage people after the day
Speaker 2: in history, I would encourage people after the show to
Speaker 2: go check that out. And and he knows him being
Speaker 2: sincere because I texted him about it. I think he
Speaker 2: did a fantastic job of that. I didn't read the
Speaker 2: rest of the mailback. I'll be honest, I forget I
Speaker 2: was going to and something happened. But I was so
Speaker 2: blown away by what you wrote about mac Jones and
Speaker 2: how well I think you dissected situation. I have one
Speaker 2: more down in Evan. This is gonna be a first
Speaker 2: ups and downs. It actually includes the Patriots opponent from
Speaker 2: the game. It includes both teams, the entire two minute
Speaker 2: drill at the end of the first half. Both ways,
Speaker 2: this was one of the worst sequences of football I
Speaker 2: have ever seen. So let's pick it up with one
Speaker 2: forty six to go in the second quarter. Paid Dietrich
Speaker 2: wise gets a sack. Good job, third and twenty three
Speaker 2: for the Commanders. You're thinking, all right, like maybe if
Speaker 2: they pick up like twenty here they get in a
Speaker 2: field goal range, Patriot's gonna get the ball back for
Speaker 2: like a minute and a half to go a couple
Speaker 2: of timeouts Instead, Sam Halle breaks three tackles of Adrian Phillips,
Speaker 2: Jalen Mills and Jack Jones, and gets a twenty four
Speaker 2: yard scramble on third and twenty three. Evan, I looked
Speaker 2: it up earlier this week. Yeah, in the last The
Speaker 2: data only goes back on Pro Football Reference to nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety four third and twenty threes converted, not on penalty.
Speaker 2: It's only happened seven times. Well, I guess eight, and
Speaker 2: only three of them I think we are on the ground, sorry,
Speaker 2: converted on the ground. It's only happened a handful of times.
Speaker 2: Tim Tebow had one, Patrick Mahomes had one. Doesn't happen
Speaker 2: a lot. So that was a breakdown and you think,
Speaker 2: oh boy, all right, here we go, and then boom.
Speaker 2: Sam Howe comes back. Next third down, hits Byron Pringle. First,
Speaker 2: he hits him down to the five yard line. It's
Speaker 2: a good tackle by Miles bryan is the only good
Speaker 2: play in the sequence. It's a good throw by how
Speaker 2: the Pringle to get down there, and Miles Bryant makes
Speaker 2: a good tackle to keep Pringle in bounds. So the
Speaker 2: clock is now running. The Commanders have all three timeouts,
Speaker 2: but the clock is running. Forty two seconds to goal
Speaker 2: first and goal from the five. So you think, all right, boom,
Speaker 2: you hit him with the timeout. Now you got forty seconds,
Speaker 2: two timeouts, five yards to go. It's all on the table.
Speaker 2: You can run the ball, you can throw the ball,
Speaker 2: even if you take a sack. You have options. So
Speaker 2: I'm waiting for the timeout and Washington's not calling one. Okay,
Speaker 2: so you're gonna hurry up to the line, right and
Speaker 2: then that way. You have all three timeouts and you're
Speaker 2: probably gonna get the ball off with like a little
Speaker 2: under thirty seconds to go. But you have all three timeouts.
Speaker 2: What's fine, you can run all four downs. No, they're
Speaker 2: taking their sweet time getting up to the line in
Speaker 2: what is a close game at the half, in what
Speaker 2: is a fourteen to ten game. So I'm like, all right,
Speaker 2: I guess they don't want to give the ball back
Speaker 2: to the Patriots with too much time. I don't know
Speaker 2: what about this Patriots offense makes them feel that way,
Speaker 2: but sure they finally snaffed the ball. There's twenty three
Speaker 2: seconds left. They burned twenty seconds of a crucial two
Speaker 2: minute drill, lollygaging their way to the line. They finally
Speaker 2: get the ball off. No, I don't think anybody knows
Speaker 2: what the play is, so in the twenty seconds they
Speaker 2: didn't bother to call a play. Sam Hall rolls out
Speaker 2: just instantly boots out to his right. Nobody's open. I'm thinking,
Speaker 2: all right, he's gonna throw the ball away. I guess
Speaker 2: it's a de facto time out. More time ran off
Speaker 2: the clock than they needed to, but they still have
Speaker 2: all three timeouts and still probably be able to run
Speaker 2: all four plays. Instead, he throws the ball directly to
Speaker 2: Kyle Tucker, and you had a team at one point
Speaker 2: third and twenty three back up, all right, Patrio's gonna
Speaker 2: get a shot at two minute drill. Patriots blow the
Speaker 2: third down. Then it's like, all right, the Commanders are
Speaker 2: gonna have a chance for points here. Neither team ends
Speaker 2: up with points, nor should they have. That was just
Speaker 2: what a sequence of football that was.
Speaker 1: It was. It was something yeah, I was. You know,
Speaker 1: we sit in the press box, you know where I sit.
Speaker 1: But I'll explain, like me and Fred and Paul and Duce,
Speaker 1: we all sit together at home games, which is always fun,
Speaker 1: and all of us are just like, oh my good,
Speaker 1: Like what a just bad football?
Speaker 2: Just burn the tape, and again it's both teams. It's
Speaker 2: the Patriots had a gaff and you're like, wow, this
Speaker 2: could be like a game defining gaff. And the commanders
Speaker 2: came out and said, hang on a second here, you
Speaker 2: think you're gonna have the biggest gaff of this two
Speaker 2: minute drill? Watch this hold our beer. Yes, you blow
Speaker 2: a tackle, You blow a tackle to not call the
Speaker 2: time out there? And then if Sam Hall throw the
Speaker 2: ball directly to Kyle Duggar, is just what you're doing,
Speaker 2: you know, just in general, not to like pile on
Speaker 2: the commanders.
Speaker 1: It's not, you know, a commander's show, but in general,
Speaker 1: I think that that's such a good point of just
Speaker 1: I really have to wonder if that situation for Sam
Speaker 1: Howell doesn't feel so rushed, right if he throws that
Speaker 1: pick right, like, because you're just at that point as
Speaker 1: a quarterback, like you're just thinking, like I'm running out
Speaker 1: of time in the half. I gotta like we gotta
Speaker 1: make something like you just get frastled, right, like it
Speaker 1: just it just snowballs on you from there and then
Speaker 1: you make a bad decision like that was really the
Speaker 1: only bad decision he made the entire day was that
Speaker 1: throw And so it just it just goes to show
Speaker 1: how young quarterbacks and that's another young quarterback is seting
Speaker 1: your guy that's really making his first couple of starts
Speaker 1: in the league. Like, it just goes to show how
Speaker 1: helpful it can be to just settle guys down and
Speaker 1: just give them time to breathe with over the course
Speaker 1: of a drive, over the course of a game. But yeah,
Speaker 1: you nailed it there when the uh that ending was
Speaker 1: was horrible. It was terrible.
Speaker 2: Go back and watch it if you want to laugh. Ye,
Speaker 2: and it was both. Is just I don't know that
Speaker 2: there's anything I always say, like, what we learn from this?
Speaker 2: What can we learn from that? Your point about the
Speaker 2: young quarterback is good, but I don't know there's anything to.
Speaker 1: Learn from it.
Speaker 2: I thought it was funny. I just wanted to bring
Speaker 2: it up. I enjoyed it.
Speaker 3: All.
Speaker 2: Right, let's go to Todd North Carolina and then we'll
Speaker 2: get to the Colts. Todd, how we do it today?
Speaker 5: Hey, guys, I like the insights, but I just feel
Speaker 5: right now that this entire team is broken from the
Speaker 5: top down. Belichick looks like he doesn't want to be there,
Speaker 5: and he doesn't understand what's going on and why it's
Speaker 5: not working. You take a look at the coaches and
Speaker 5: they're just you know, they're looking and they're trying to
Speaker 5: console each other. It just seems like nothing wants to work.
Speaker 5: And I don't know what big solution is because it's
Speaker 5: just they're not on the same page. They're making mistakes everywhere.
Speaker 1: All right, thanks to call Todd.
Speaker 2: I'll say this, I don't think there's an issue with
Speaker 2: Bill Belichick's want to. I really don't hearing him after
Speaker 2: talk after that Commander's game that was he's not a
Speaker 2: guy that he did not have the mood of a
Speaker 2: guy that was, all right, we lost another game, whatever,
Speaker 2: what it is, what it is, This is what the
Speaker 2: season is. No, he's legitimately bothered by the way this
Speaker 2: team is playing, and whether or not he's the guy
Speaker 2: to turn it around is another question. But I don't
Speaker 2: think he's quitting. I'll say that. I don't think he
Speaker 2: has come close to quitting. I think he still very
Speaker 2: much cares. I think these losses still very much bothered him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: I don't think quitting is in Bill Belichick's team. No, No,
Speaker 2: and the whole thing about like tank. He's not gonna tank.
Speaker 2: He is not go it's not happening. He's not gonna
Speaker 2: purposely start losing games. He's not gonna stop caring about
Speaker 2: winning and losing games, and nor should he, by the way,
Speaker 2: to say, let me say that if you you should tanking,
Speaker 2: I've said the story. Tanking happens at the general manager
Speaker 2: level and above. But because Bill is both, you default
Speaker 2: to the coach level. He's a real competitor. He's out
Speaker 2: there to win. He's not wasting time. He's not wasting
Speaker 2: his time, he's not wasting anybody else's time. He's out
Speaker 2: there to win. And I give him credit for that.
Speaker 1: I honestly, my bigger concern with the coaching and with
Speaker 1: Bill is not necessarily about him quitting. I don't have
Speaker 1: any that's not even in my rational right. You know,
Speaker 1: that's not even on my brain. But I know, and
Speaker 1: we know Alex from covering the team, like how hard
Speaker 1: these coaches coach these players, Like they have long hours,
Speaker 1: they have long meetings, Their corrections can be really brutally
Speaker 1: honest sometimes like when they get in there. And that's
Speaker 1: why I always feel somewhat comfortable like criticizing players and
Speaker 1: criticizing the team, because I know that what they're hearing,
Speaker 1: the critiques and the corrections that they're getting from the
Speaker 1: coaching staff are ten times worse than what we're saying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I promise you that they And when I say ten
Speaker 1: times worse, I mean the volume of it is because
Speaker 1: they know all the little details of how they're screwing up.
Speaker 1: Not right.
Speaker 2: How many times do we say, you know, we don't
Speaker 2: know what the call is, so we can't definitively say
Speaker 2: they know what the call is?
Speaker 1: Right? Oh, right? Like this a coaching staff that goes
Speaker 1: about it and says like, we this is a six
Speaker 1: yard route and you ran it at five and a
Speaker 1: half yards, and we need you to run it.
Speaker 2: At six right, right?
Speaker 1: Like that, that's the type of stuff that you hear
Speaker 1: about how they coach players. So we know that this
Speaker 1: is a coaching staff that has a lot of smart
Speaker 1: football minds on it and that makes those tough corrections
Speaker 1: and isn't afraid to say the tough things in the room,
Speaker 1: and the players aren't responding to it anymore. Like the
Speaker 1: players are not getting any better, They're not clean there,
Speaker 1: they're poor fundamentally, like they're not it's not working. It's
Speaker 1: the message is not being received. And if the message
Speaker 1: isn't being received anymore, then I don't that's a big
Speaker 1: problem that needs to be addressed because it's not you know,
Speaker 1: Bill Belichick's not going in there and saying like, you know,
Speaker 1: bust the coverage, draw go off sides, draw a hold
Speaker 1: on you know, like that. He's not saying those types
Speaker 1: of things. We know that. So the mistakes are being
Speaker 1: made because it's not gonna through. The message is not
Speaker 1: resonating with the players. I mean, we talked about special
Speaker 1: teams earlier, Alex they got punished in the offseason for
Speaker 1: having too many special teams eight, right, they spend too
Speaker 1: much time on special teams. Yet they are thirtieth in
Speaker 1: the league in dboa on special teams. They're one of
Speaker 1: the worst special teams units in the National Football League,
Speaker 1: despite having three dedicated special teams coaches and five dedicated
Speaker 1: special teams players. Yeah. Yeah, that that's code. Like the
Speaker 1: message isn't getting crossed anymore, period.
Speaker 2: All right, Uh, we'll take Patty and Aguam's call real quick,
Speaker 2: and then we'll get to the Colts. And I do
Speaker 2: want to get to the draft news too, So you're
Speaker 2: gonna have to make it quick here, Patty, what's up.
Speaker 5: I'll make it quick.
Speaker 2: Good morning, So I have.
Speaker 3: I have just my head the other day.
Speaker 5: How would you guys feel if draft that we're in doubt?
Speaker 5: It's a great down. I know it's not popular. Possibly
Speaker 5: pick up and Michael Pennock. That's no leg I'll take
Speaker 5: it off there.
Speaker 2: So the old pair that Roman Dunesay and Michael Pennix,
Speaker 2: the old pair, the uh pair, the quarterback with the
Speaker 2: college receiver thing. I don't know that you're gonna be
Speaker 2: able to do that. You're gonna probably need two top
Speaker 2: twenty picks to do that, and you trade back. There's
Speaker 2: no team. The only team that has two first round
Speaker 2: picks is the Bears, and they're both gonna be top five.
Speaker 2: So I just don't know if that situation presents itself.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to it. I just think
Speaker 2: that that's asking a bit too much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that would be great, right right. I
Speaker 1: think that when they drafted Mac obviously it's kind of
Speaker 1: a similar situation. I have. My dream has always been
Speaker 1: to try to pair him with Devonte Smith. And that's
Speaker 1: it's impossible, right, and it just wasn't gonna happen, and
Speaker 1: that draft for similar reasons, so that that would work
Speaker 1: out perfectly if if you could do, you know, go
Speaker 1: about doing that. But I I just I don't really know,
Speaker 1: you know. I I think that if you're gonna address
Speaker 1: back end receiver in the same draft or the same offseason,
Speaker 1: excuse me, you're gonna have to pay the receiver in
Speaker 1: veteran free agency. Like that's you're gonna have to go
Speaker 1: out in the veteran market and get the receiver that way.
Speaker 2: All right, Let's move on to this Patriots Colts matchup.
Speaker 2: And as I see here at talking about a NFL
Speaker 2: networks the rivalry evan real quick, your favorite Patriots Colts
Speaker 2: rivalry moment. Oh wait, you're asking a tribute question. Let's
Speaker 2: see if you can get this. Which Patriots running back
Speaker 2: ran for career high two hundred one yards in one
Speaker 2: game versus the Colts in twenty fourteen?
Speaker 1: You me, yeah, you don't think I can get that one.
Speaker 2: Come up A Stephen Ridley, b Jonas Grace Grace Ce,
Speaker 2: Shane Vereen, d James White.
Speaker 1: Jonas Gray.
Speaker 2: I can't believe it was only two hundred one yards.
Speaker 2: He felt like five hundred.
Speaker 1: It felt like a little bit more.
Speaker 2: That's up there for my favorite Patriots Colts moans, what's
Speaker 2: your favorite Patriots Colt moment?
Speaker 1: So it wasn't a playoff game, so interesting that caveat
Speaker 1: William McGinnis goal line stop.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 1: That one's still my favorite. Like there's no way that
Speaker 1: you would have thought that they were winning that game,
Speaker 1: Like it looked so crystal clear, like that game was
Speaker 1: over right, Yeah, that was That was my favorite moment.
Speaker 1: I did the ty Law three interception game in the playoffs.
Speaker 2: So on the same way ty Law's interceptions and then
Speaker 2: you know, in the snow and everything that was like
Speaker 2: peek Patriots early time to see that was everything you
Speaker 2: wanted from those games in the snow in the playoffs,
Speaker 2: big name players making plays, Peyton Manning crying that one
Speaker 2: was awesome. The Willie McGinnis goal line stands a great play,
Speaker 2: Jonas Gray. And then also let's not forget the fake
Speaker 2: punt that never was Oh yeah right, that's got to
Speaker 2: be up there as well. But different game. Now, Patriots
Speaker 2: and Colts playing for the third time, in three years
Speaker 2: Colts won two years ago. That kind of kicked off
Speaker 2: that backslide for the Patriots at the end of the
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one season. Last year, Colts came in the
Speaker 2: game after firing your offensive coordinator. They run a backup
Speaker 2: quarterback Sam Ellinger. Patriots pants them. So Rubbert match, neutral site,
Speaker 2: fun game. Let's start with quarterback Evin start quarterback Gardner
Speaker 2: Minshew is.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Anthony Richardson obviously out for the year. I was looking
Speaker 2: forward to this game mainly because I wanted to watch
Speaker 2: Anthony Richardson. That's not gonna happen. Now, here's something interesting
Speaker 2: about Gardner Minshew. In Gardner Minshew's career, he's thrown for
Speaker 2: over three hundred yards eight times, including ones this year.
Speaker 2: How many of those games is he won? Ever?
Speaker 1: Oh, I would assume like one or two. It's all
Speaker 1: garbage time zero, right, yeah, zero, he's garbage time Minshew
Speaker 1: Like that's that's his bread and butter right there.
Speaker 2: First and foremost responsibility for the Patriots this week stopped
Speaker 2: the run. It was what killed him two years ago
Speaker 2: in Indy in that game at the end of the
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one season. I believe Jonathan Taylor didn't play
Speaker 2: last year. Yeah, right, so we know Taylor can get them.
Speaker 1: We talked about Jonathan Taylor didn't play in the game
Speaker 1: last year. Yeah right, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the game in Indy, he did he Oh, he
Speaker 2: very much didn't play.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a beast.
Speaker 2: So this is a guy that had trouble with He's
Speaker 2: a guy that knows how to break tackles. We talked
Speaker 2: about the tackling shoes earlier. You gotta hit Jonathan Taylor early.
Speaker 2: You can't let him build a head of team. So
Speaker 2: to go back to ups and downs, Evan, my two
Speaker 2: ups from the defense. Remember I said they're only two
Speaker 2: guys that played world defensively to Vaughan Godshaw Christian Barmore.
Speaker 2: Massive game for those two this week. Massive game. Those
Speaker 2: two need to show up.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's a big game for the run.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: Look, I think what's weird about the Colts is that
Speaker 1: from my perspective, Anthony Richardson, it looks so much better
Speaker 1: with Anthony Richardson, like it just aesthetically, you know, the
Speaker 1: eye test, but if you look at it statistically, their
Speaker 1: offense has basically been the same with Caardner Minshew in
Speaker 1: terms of production.
Speaker 2: Carter Minshew's not bad. This isn't like your normal backup
Speaker 2: quarterback Gardner Minshew, for the static gave you at the beginning,
Speaker 2: It's not a bad He's probably somewhere between like the
Speaker 2: thirtieth and fortieth best quarterback in the league. He's a serviceable,
Speaker 2: plug and play guy.
Speaker 1: He's a four A player, right, Yeah, like he's he's
Speaker 1: not He's a high end backup. Yeah, he's probably one
Speaker 1: of the best backup quarterbacks in the league. I would
Speaker 1: say so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but with this isn't some helpless like second year
Speaker 2: you know court seeing NFL defense for the first time quarterback.
Speaker 2: This is a guy who's been around and he's won
Speaker 2: some games.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And there are like I said, you know,
Speaker 1: from an EPA perspective, their offense literally produces the exact
Speaker 1: same EPA with with Gardner Mitschew as it does with
Speaker 1: Anthony Richardson, Like literally the exact same number. So you
Speaker 1: look at this group, I've been really impressed, you know,
Speaker 1: with with Tikan obviously, I think he can coach offense.
Speaker 1: Now I don't know enough about him as like a
Speaker 1: CEO of a football team, right, I don't know if
Speaker 1: he's the leader of men and does all the other
Speaker 1: things that take a head coach to do. But in
Speaker 1: terms of scheming offense, they are running the Eagles offense
Speaker 1: with Jalen Hurts, and the idea was just to have
Speaker 1: Anthony Richardson beat their Jalen Hurts. It hasn't necessarily worked
Speaker 1: out that way just because of Richardson's injury. But they're
Speaker 1: still doing a lot of the same things with Minshew
Speaker 1: that they were would have done with Richardson. A lot
Speaker 1: of RPOs on early downs, option runs, like, there's still
Speaker 1: a lot of that in this offense. I mean, Mitschew
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago against Cleveland had like a
Speaker 1: seventeen yard touchdown run on one of the Eagles patented
Speaker 1: you know, run run pass options right where there's like
Speaker 1: a quarterback run element, there's a handoff element, and then
Speaker 1: there's a pass hot element. So it's all those things
Speaker 1: is one. So I think that this is a difficult
Speaker 1: scheme to play without a ton of familiarity with the team, right,
Speaker 1: Like if you're an NFC team, it can be I
Speaker 1: think this can be a little bit like what's going
Speaker 1: on here at times Now, the Patriots played the Eagles
Speaker 1: earlier on in the year, so I guess they have
Speaker 1: that advantage of they've kind of already faced this offense
Speaker 1: once before. But of course, as we've all, you know,
Speaker 1: talked about at nausea and I had Judean, he had
Speaker 1: Christian Gonzalez, he had much different personnel back then. So
Speaker 1: I don't look at this offense is one that you
Speaker 1: have to worry about being overwhelmingly more talented. It's kind
Speaker 1: of similar to the last week honestly, where I talked
Speaker 1: up you know, er the enemy and that the offense
Speaker 1: and ended up you know, throwing for over three hundred
Speaker 1: yards on the Patriots. It's a well coached offense. They
Speaker 1: put a lot of challenging things at you schematically offensively,
Speaker 1: and if you're not ready to play this game, then
Speaker 1: garter Mitch you can move the ball like I don't
Speaker 1: think that he's a complete, you know, terrible quarterback where
Speaker 1: they could do all these things right ex as and
Speaker 1: O's wise, but it just doesn't work out because Mitschew stinks.
Speaker 2: All right, talk to me about Michael Pittman. You said,
Speaker 2: you like if you saw from him, Yeah, yeah, you know, I.
Speaker 1: Think This is a I'm glad you brought this up
Speaker 1: because one of the little sneaky things that I'm going
Speaker 1: to be doing in this game is actually watching somebody
Speaker 1: else on the other team, which, to be honest, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't really do that that often. Aw
Speaker 1: It's like it's not something that I really do very much.
Speaker 1: But Michael Pittman's a free agent going into next offseason.
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier that if you're indeed you have a
Speaker 1: young stud potential quarterback here with Anthony Richardson, based off
Speaker 1: of how he played when he was healthy, you probably
Speaker 1: want to keep Pittman around, like that's probably a guy
Speaker 1: that you're going to lock up long term. But I
Speaker 1: think it should be said that Pittman has basically been
Speaker 1: a thousand yard receiver playing with Carson Wentz and Matt
Speaker 1: Ryan as his quarterbacks and then this year a rookie
Speaker 1: and Gardner Minshew, So he hasn't really played with a
Speaker 1: ton of It's not like he's out there playing with
Speaker 1: Patrick Mahomes and he's catching one hundred balls a year.
Speaker 1: He's a really good route runner for his size. You know,
Speaker 1: he's got that big frame, so he can't win down
Speaker 1: the field above the rim. But he also has that
Speaker 1: ability to break off routes at the intermediate level, you know,
Speaker 1: digs out things like that to keep a defender honest.
Speaker 1: So I'm impressed with this film as like a true
Speaker 1: prototypical X receiver And if the Patriots want to look
Speaker 1: at that spot, which they should be in the offseason
Speaker 1: and looking to upgrade Devonte Parker, I think that's exactly
Speaker 1: what Michael Pittman is is a younger, better DeVante Parker.
Speaker 2: Well, he was the guy I remember too, Like they
Speaker 2: met with him going into the draft, right, they liked
Speaker 2: him going into the draft.
Speaker 1: I think yeah, I liked him a little bit going
Speaker 1: into the draft too. What my concern was with him
Speaker 1: in terms of fitting him into the system because he
Speaker 1: is his downfield opportunities are going to come on jump balls, right, Like,
Speaker 1: that's gonna be a lot of his verticals are going
Speaker 1: to be throw it up to him and see if
Speaker 1: he can make a play on the ball. And we
Speaker 1: know how that skill set hasn't necessarily worked here in
Speaker 1: New England. But he can run routes like he can
Speaker 1: break down and run routes and great separation at the
Speaker 1: top of the route maybe a little bit better than
Speaker 1: I thought coming in based off of what he's put
Speaker 1: on tape with the Colts. So intriguing player. If he hits,
Speaker 1: you know, free agency, that's somebody that maybe T Higgins doesn't,
Speaker 1: or maybe T Higgins is a thirty million dollar guy
Speaker 1: in free agency and they end up going or the
Speaker 1: rout of somebody more a little bit more affordable. Then
Speaker 1: I think that's sort of T Higgins. And then number
Speaker 1: two in that class to me right now is Michael Pittman.
Speaker 2: All Right, we're we're kind of rolling through this because
Speaker 2: we've got to be off by eleven fifty because uh,
Speaker 2: Patriots on fielder's coming up next, and we got to
Speaker 2: let them set up for that. You know, I feel
Speaker 2: like when we talk about the Patriots offense in this
Speaker 2: game with same thing every week, right, what is the
Speaker 2: roota shouldn't what does the rotation look like? A wide
Speaker 2: receivers Kashawn Boody playing, How much is Samira Douglas play?
Speaker 2: How are they lining it up on the offensive line?
Speaker 2: How are things gonna go there? Can Mac look comfortable
Speaker 2: in the pocket? Is it just the status quo again
Speaker 2: for the offensive week? Or is there anything that changes
Speaker 2: with this matchup.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And really the other thing is, well, you remember
Speaker 1: the game last year, and that was probably one of
Speaker 1: the worst offensive games of football I've ever watched. Between
Speaker 1: these two games teams, and last year, DeForest Buckner just
Speaker 1: completely ruined the game for the Patriots and Cole Strange
Speaker 1: got benched because of DeForest Buckner. So, like you said,
Speaker 1: this is a big litmus test game for this offense.
Speaker 1: It's a similar defense, same defensive coordinator. They changed head coaches,
Speaker 1: but they kept Gus Bradley as a defensive coordinator, and
Speaker 1: Gus Bradley runs a Seattle three defense. He's like one
Speaker 1: of the he's a dying breed. He's like one of
Speaker 1: the last guys that's holding out on changing his philosophy.
Speaker 1: They play more zone coverage than any defense in the NFL.
Speaker 1: They play more Cover three than any defense in the NFL.
Speaker 1: They are a Seattle three defense. Still. Now a lot
Speaker 1: of teams that have branches from that tree have been
Speaker 1: become more like quarters based, you know, like Fangio type
Speaker 1: of defenses because of you know, you can't teams just
Speaker 1: have figured out how to take down the cover free stuff.
Speaker 1: Like it's just with all these offenses that can throw
Speaker 1: the ball down the field and all these passing attacks,
Speaker 1: it becomes problematic to play that much single high so
Speaker 1: team teams have morphed the system. No, not Gus Bradley.
Speaker 1: Gus Bradley's just still doing his thing, but they do
Speaker 1: it at a pretty decent level. Like they're like middle
Speaker 1: of the pack in DVOA. But I do think that
Speaker 1: this is a team because they play so much zone coverage.
Speaker 1: There's gonna be some open receivers down the field in
Speaker 1: this game. Like we always talk about that man coverage,
Speaker 1: it's about the receivers getting open zone coverage. You can
Speaker 1: beat zone coverage just with good scheme. So if O'Brien
Speaker 1: can scheme some guys open against this team, which I
Speaker 1: think they will be able to, then it becomes on
Speaker 1: the detection to Forrest Buckner and can they hang you know,
Speaker 1: can they hold off that front four? You know, Buckner
Speaker 1: is a good player. I think Quitty pay is a
Speaker 1: good pass rusher. They have some guys that Apu can
Speaker 1: that can rush the passer. Uh So let's see what
Speaker 1: it looks like upfront, and let's see if you know,
Speaker 1: Cole Strange can keep himself from getting benched again against
Speaker 1: the Forrest Buckner.
Speaker 2: All right, so that's it. Evan will have his game preview.
Speaker 2: I think your previous already up right on Patriots dot com.
Speaker 2: My game preview will be up tomorrow morning ninety at
Speaker 2: five the sports ub dot com because there is one
Speaker 2: more story I want to talk about and I you know,
Speaker 2: people always are asking us to talk about the draft.
Speaker 2: Did we lose Evan there? Now he's back? Okay? People
Speaker 2: always you know, we talk about the draft a lot,
Speaker 2: and and specifically we're big on the the All Star Games.
Speaker 2: Obviously we went to the Shrine Bowl last year. We've
Speaker 2: covered the Senior Bowl extensively as well. There's other games,
Speaker 2: the Legacy Bowl, the Hula Bowl.
Speaker 1: Like as you're talking about this, I I can't say
Speaker 1: with one hundred percent certainty, but Mobile might be in
Speaker 1: our future, Alex, So we might be back. And it's
Speaker 1: looking good. It's soaking good for Mobile.
Speaker 2: And we may seem more than what we would typically see.
Speaker 2: Because Adam Schefter reported this yesterday, college juniors who declare
Speaker 2: for the draft are now eligible to play in all
Speaker 2: of these games. So in the past it was very specific,
Speaker 2: very few circumstances in which non seniors could play in
Speaker 2: these games. Yeah, that's gone now, and I think what
Speaker 2: the league's trying to do is encourage some of the
Speaker 2: top prospects to not stay in college, which is an
Speaker 2: easier decision now with the NIL and things like that.
Speaker 2: I have mixed feelings about this, even because on one hand,
Speaker 2: I think there are guys that come out as juniors.
Speaker 2: And by the way, there's sixty nine juniors that entered
Speaker 2: the draft last year out of four hundred something players,
Speaker 2: so you're not talking about that many players relatively speaking.
Speaker 2: But these are going to be elite prospects. These are
Speaker 2: not Day three fringe draft pick guys. You come out
Speaker 2: as a junior, you're probably a pretty good player. You're
Speaker 2: probably going in the top two hundred. On one hand,
Speaker 2: we're now going to get to see these guys in
Speaker 2: that competitive format, which is value. But when it comes
Speaker 2: to evaluating prospects, and I like that. On the other hand,
Speaker 2: that's now more players that are available. So does it
Speaker 2: push some of those fringe draft guys? Tomoro Douglas a
Speaker 2: perfect example, does to Mario Douglas get the invite if
Speaker 2: there were you know, seventy something juniors between the Senior
Speaker 2: Bowl and Shrine Bowl that were available. Does it push
Speaker 2: some smaller school guys, a guy like Marte Mapu? Does
Speaker 2: it push them out of the pictures? So again I'm
Speaker 2: torn on it. Ultimately, I would like to see more
Speaker 2: of those fringe guys, more of the seniors that are
Speaker 2: you know I got Yeah, a guy like a guy
Speaker 2: like brock Perty is a great example. He wasn't an
Speaker 2: elite prospect, but he ended up making the cut because
Speaker 2: there weren't that many quarterbacks in that draft. He goes
Speaker 2: to the Shrine Bowl, it was a big deal. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So I'm mixed on it. I think it's definitely gonna
Speaker 2: be good for certain players, and it might be good
Speaker 2: for the draft. I just think it gets rid of
Speaker 2: some of those fun, more underdog stories that I know
Speaker 2: you're not as interested as the draft that I love
Speaker 2: in the draft.
Speaker 1: No, I'm actually with you on this, believe it or not,
Speaker 1: because of some of the guys that you just mentioned,
Speaker 1: like a Pop Douglas. Yeah, and I'm interested. You know,
Speaker 1: I'll probably reach out and then when I get back
Speaker 1: to Galco about this, like how do you how do
Speaker 1: you keep the Pop Douglasses of the world safe, right,
Speaker 1: how do you like, how are those guys still involved
Speaker 1: in the game, Because to me, in our experience last
Speaker 1: year at the Shrine Bowl is so great because we
Speaker 1: how do I phrase it. I don't want to say
Speaker 1: we found Pop Douglas because that's not the right way
Speaker 1: to say it, but you know what I'm trying.
Speaker 2: So if you go on if you go on NFL
Speaker 2: mock Draft database dot com and it tracks it's a
Speaker 2: website that basically tracks the stock of all the players
Speaker 2: in the draft. Pop Douglas's stock spikes the week that
Speaker 2: we were at the Shrine Bowl. And there were not
Speaker 2: that many media members covering the Shrine Bowl the way
Speaker 2: we were covering it, just say it. It was all
Speaker 2: about right, we we didn't discover him as a prospect,
Speaker 2: like GMS knew about him, right, We were the first
Speaker 2: media people talking about Pop Douglas.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Pop Douglas like those types of guys to
Speaker 1: meet the Shrine Bowl. And I'm fingers crossed, but I
Speaker 1: think I'm safe in saying that we're probably gonna be
Speaker 1: able to go to the Senior Bowl this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: With the Senior Bowl, Like, that's what it is for me.
Speaker 1: I know who Drake may is right, like, I know
Speaker 1: who the top prospects in the draft art who are
Speaker 1: the guys that on day two, day three?
Speaker 2: Right that?
Speaker 1: I like that. I want to you know, see more
Speaker 1: of that. I want to watch, you know, study their film,
Speaker 1: like who are you?
Speaker 2: The draft is great?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's just you know, like it's it. Day
Speaker 1: three matters too, right, like punchers and kickers. Uh So
Speaker 1: at some point you have to let those guys have
Speaker 1: their moment and like now, like you said, if the
Speaker 1: roster is being filled up with uh you know, those
Speaker 1: top guys, Yeah, it's probably better for like the marketability
Speaker 1: of the game, and it's probably better for some of
Speaker 1: those players. But at the same time, I do worry
Speaker 1: about you know, another perfect example to so not to
Speaker 1: just keep using Pop Douglas, Pooka and Nikua. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: Kua went down to Mobile and had an unbelievable scene
Speaker 1: in your Bowl week and now here we are with
Speaker 1: Puka Nakua in Los Angeles. So those are the types
Speaker 1: of guys that you worry about, you know, slipping through
Speaker 1: the cracks now even more.
Speaker 2: But I think they're giving Kyle Duggar coming from D
Speaker 2: two and getting the experience, and.
Speaker 1: He call strange for that matter too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Dugger was projected to be a top fifty pick,
Speaker 2: but you didn't know. You didn't see him against that
Speaker 2: level of competition until you got to the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 2: I'll give you two reasons for optimism, though, I think
Speaker 2: that we'll be okay. One, you are seeing more of
Speaker 2: the top top prospects, like you mentioned Drake May, those
Speaker 2: first round, top fifteen locks. More of those guys are
Speaker 2: now opting out of the games altogether, right and saying
Speaker 2: if I go, I'm only gonna hurt my stock, or
Speaker 2: I could get hurt. I'm staying home, So that opens
Speaker 2: up some spots. Also, the NFL allowing it doesn't mean
Speaker 2: it's gonna happen. Jim Naggy could sit there and say, no,
Speaker 2: it's the Senior Bowl, not running juniors. What are you
Speaker 2: talking about?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Eric Galaco could say, no, this is what this game
Speaker 2: is about. I want to make sure that I have
Speaker 2: enough small school prospects, so we'll see how the games
Speaker 2: themselves handle it. But the NFL's opening the door, and
Speaker 2: I thought that was really quick. And then they're they're
Speaker 2: gonna run me off the stage here. Yeah, I'm staying
Speaker 2: on the stage, but they're gonna kick us off the air.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The one thing that I think is also interesting
Speaker 1: that I saw was that this could potentially open the
Speaker 1: door for more of these all star games.
Speaker 2: So like, okay, so there's that too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if the Senior Bowl and the Shrine Bowl become
Speaker 1: just like real all Star games where we're just talking
Speaker 1: about like really good prospects, then maybe there's a chance
Speaker 1: that we could have like different you know, four or
Speaker 1: five six of these you know in the future, which
Speaker 1: for people like God so like, would be awesome.
Speaker 2: You know, make a Junior Bowl, make an Underclassman Bowl.
Speaker 1: There you go.
Speaker 2: I was I wondered for so I always wonder how
Speaker 2: they get the underclassman fault. I thought it would be
Speaker 2: just making another bowl, not this. But anyway, right, we
Speaker 2: got to wrap it up. I could see Faith, who's
Speaker 2: been producing for us. It's like standing at the board
Speaker 2: ready to go take us off the air. So we'll
Speaker 2: be back next week's same time, same place, back on video, Evan.
Speaker 2: We'll be back from Germany. But in the meantime, Patriots
Speaker 2: Unfiltered coming up next. Frevlozara Malex Part Thanks listen I'll
Speaker 2: talk to you next week. Evan, We'll talk to you
Speaker 2: about ten minutes.
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