1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: One of the things that I kept a screenshot of 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: was the one that I thought was the worst. It's 3 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: a collage. It's almost like a Christmas card. There's some 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: writing on the top and the bottom, and then all. 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 2: These different photos. 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: The photo in the top corner is a picture of 7 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: my face, and then the rest of the pictures are nudes, 8 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: and they become ever and ever more close up and 9 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: across the top it says something along the lines of 10 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: slut wife alert. 11 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 3: Do you know this woman? And that's out there and 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 3: I can't ever get it back. 13 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, a show about 14 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:03,639 Speaker 2: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that 15 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 2: change everything. Here at Betrayal, we've received hundreds of emails 16 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 2: messages from listeners telling us their own shocking stories, and 17 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 2: we knew we had to find a way to share them. 18 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 2: So I'm excited to announce that every Thursday, we will 19 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 2: be bringing you new, fascinating stories of resilience in the 20 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 2: face of devastating betrayal. Some stories may be told over 21 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 2: a week or two weeks, some more, and we knew 22 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 2: where to start. A listener who emailed us in the 23 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 2: summer of twenty twenty three, she wrote, I've been in 24 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 2: this betrayal club for over two years now. When I 25 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 2: discovered your podcast, I was intrigued. We were the couple 26 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 2: that all the other couples envied. We were best friends, 27 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 2: walking down main street, holding hands and giggling like newlyweds 28 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 2: after two decades together. The email explained that she didn't 29 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 2: just love her husband, she liked him. He was the 30 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 2: love of her life, or so she thought. It's funny 31 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: how so many of these betrayal stories start the same way, beautiful, 32 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 2: long term relationships that aren't what they appear to be. 33 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 2: This is Stephanie's story, although that's not her real name. 34 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 2: All the names you'll hear in this story have been 35 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 2: changed or censored to respect her privacy. 36 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: We got married in nineteen ninety eight. It was a 37 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: second marriage for both of us. I came with four boys. 38 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: He had a boy and a girl. Our kids were 39 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: already friends and were thrilled about us being together. 40 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 2: Stephanie and her husband I'm gonna call him Greg, live 41 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 2: together in a tiny Midwestern town. It's the kind of 42 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 2: town where everybody knows everybody. 43 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: It's like a small calm that you would see on 44 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: a movie or a sitcom. I didn't want my husband 45 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: to go to the grocery store with me. It just 46 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: would take so long if he went with because we 47 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: knew every person at the store and everyone would have 48 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: to stop and visit with him. 49 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 2: Their big, blended family was well known in town. Picture 50 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: a modern day Brady bunch. At least that's the feeling 51 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 2: I got from a photo she shared with me. It's Stephanie, 52 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: her sons, and Greg's kids, all six of them standing 53 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: side by side on the beach, smiling. Their family takes 54 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,839 Speaker 2: up the whole three by five photo across their arm 55 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 2: and arm having the best beach vacation. It's really sweet. 56 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: He was the absolute ideal husband. He was my best friend. 57 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: He did housework, he cooked, he played with the kids, 58 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: and when the kids were little, we would go in 59 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: and volunteer at their elementary school and help with their 60 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: reading groups, which was super fun and like what their 61 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: dad does that? I mean back in those days, he 62 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: was the only dad who volunteered, and the kids all 63 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: loved him. 64 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: There's another photo of Stephanie and her husband in front 65 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: of a waterfall in a forest with his arms wrapped 66 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 2: around her. The sun lights her face, and she looks 67 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 2: relaxed and blissful. 68 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: He was very kind, very generous, very interested in hearing 69 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: what I had to say. He very much lifted me up. 70 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: He made me feel seen, and he made me feel 71 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: like I was smart and competent. 72 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 2: They had great chemistry. They made great partners, not just 73 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 2: in marriage, but in business. 74 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: I just endedended up working at my husband's optometry practice, 75 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: because you know, it's a small practice, just him. He 76 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: always had three employees and one quit and I was 77 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: kind of in between jobs, so it's like, oh, could 78 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: you just fill in. 79 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 2: Stephanie did a lot more than just fill in. She 80 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 2: started managing her husband's optometry practice, pushing insurance claims through 81 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 2: and making the business more profitable than ever. They had 82 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: a clear vision for their future. 83 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: We certainly were not rich, but we were very comfortable. 84 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: We had our own resort in our backyard. We had 85 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: a large in ground. 86 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 3: Pool, hot ub, basketball court. 87 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: Have this great photo of Greg on his giant pool 88 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: lounger watching the Master's golf tournament on our outdoor big 89 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:52,119 Speaker 1: screen TV. 90 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 3: We had just begun a plan of getting the house 91 00:05:57,720 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 3: absolutely perfect. 92 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 4: And maintenance for when we retired of course, there were 93 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 4: hard moments, bumps along the way, and a twenty two 94 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 4: year marriage that's par for the course. 95 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: At one point, he admitted that he hadn't been paying 96 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: the taxes at his business, and there was a possibility 97 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: we could lose the business, our house, he could go 98 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 1: to jail. That's a pretty big bump. It's like I've 99 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: invested everything. I've put my life and my kids' lives 100 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: in this man's hands. 101 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 3: So that was tough, but we worked through it. 102 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 2: They agreed to a payment plan with the irs and 103 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 2: move forward as a team, back on track for a 104 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 2: happy retirement. As the kids got older, Stephanie and her 105 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 2: husband adjusted well to the empty nest. 106 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: When the kids were grown, things were almost even better. 107 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: We would leave the office and walk hand in hand 108 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: down the street to the local cafe and go to 109 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 1: lunch together and sit and talk and laugh through the 110 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: whole lunch, not and scroll on our phones like other couples, 111 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: And then we would go back and work for the afternoon, 112 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: and then we would go home together and make dinner, 113 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: watch our favorite game shows, and play a board game. 114 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 2: Even during the twenty twenty pandemic, Stephanie and her husband 115 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: got along. 116 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: So you know, during COVID, I'd hop on a zoom 117 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: call with like six or seven girlfriends. We're pretty much 118 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: all empty nesters, so we're all just stuck in the 119 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: house alone with our husbands. And my friends have good marriages, 120 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: and still there. 121 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 3: Was a lot of like, I don't know how much 122 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:55,239 Speaker 3: longer I can take this. I'm really bored, and I'm. 123 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: Going, oh gosh, you guys, I feel bad because, you 124 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: know what, we're having a blast over here. We're trying 125 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: new recipes. We've got this whole game thing going on. 126 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: We're doing all these puzzles. We're having so much fun. 127 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 2: When COVID restrictions lifted, the couple took the opportunity to 128 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 2: spend even more time together and enjoy a warmer climate. 129 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: Kind of on a whim, we were like, hey, things 130 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: are opening up. We didn't get to go on our 131 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: winter vacation to our time sharing Cancun. 132 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 3: Let's go down there. So we had gone down the 133 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 3: first week. 134 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: Of April and had a fabulous time as we always do. 135 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 2: But on this little COVID getaway, she could tell that 136 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 2: something was off with Greg. She first noticed it when 137 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 2: they were lounging by the pool. 138 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: One of the things that really struck me as weird 139 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: on that trip was that we had kind of sat 140 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: in this same spot a couple days and there was 141 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: someone else sitting a couple chairs down from us, another 142 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: husband and wife, and the guy made me really uncomfortable. 143 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: You know how some guys just look at you weird, 144 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: you know, when you're hanging out in your bathing suit whatever, And. 145 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 3: The guy just kind of made me uncomfortable. 146 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: And I told Greg that, I said, you know, that 147 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: guy is just kind of creeping me out. Can we 148 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: sit somewhere else? 149 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 3: And he said no. 150 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: That was totally out of character for him. He was 151 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: always so accommodating to me and never wanted me to 152 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable. I mean, does it matter if we sit 153 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: over on the other side of the gorgeous infinity pool 154 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: looking out at the ocean. 155 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 3: So yeah, it just struck me as a little weird. 156 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 2: It was weird, but Stephanie didn't think much of it. 157 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 2: That night, the couple indulged in a long, romantic dinner. 158 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 2: This was always part of their vacation, a few dinners 159 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:54,359 Speaker 2: where they could really treat. 160 00:09:54,080 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: Themselves, many many courses and lots of different drink and 161 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: wine and follow that. 162 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 2: The next morning, Stephanie was in a fog. 163 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 3: I was very out of it, like it was really 164 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 3: hard to wake up. 165 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 2: I've had this feeling. 166 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: It was almost like I was at the bottom of 167 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: the lake and I could just see light way up ahead, 168 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: but it was so hard to try to get there, 169 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: and then I would just feel so awful, like very 170 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: cotton mull, very dehydrated, headache, miserable waking up. 171 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 3: Shouldn't feel like that. 172 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 2: But Greg was there to help take care of her. 173 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 3: Last night. 174 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: You had a lot to drink, and we were out 175 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: in the sun a lot. I'm sure you're dehydrated. Let's 176 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: get you some water, Let's get you some coffee. Let's 177 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: try to stay out of the sun a little bit today, 178 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: you know, very comforting, very kind. 179 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 2: And Stephanie was determined to make the most out of 180 00:10:59,160 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 2: the rest of a vacan. 181 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 1: We got home and on the airplane, I had seen 182 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: somebody was watching you know, you can kind of see 183 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: other people's screens. I could see somebody was watching something 184 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: with Nicole Kidman, and I was like, oh, that looks 185 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: kind of intriguing. 186 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 3: I got to look that up and see what they're watching. 187 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: So I figured it out that they were watching this 188 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: show called The Undoing. 189 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 2: The Undoing was a fictional TV mini series about a 190 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 2: pediatric surgeon played by Hugh Grant. The character is warm 191 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 2: and charming, but is ultimately suspected of a violent crime. 192 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 2: It's a complete odds with the man. His wife knows. 193 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 2: When Stephanie got home, she binge watched the show. 194 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: In that first episode, he is just so engaged with 195 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: his child, and he's so fawning over Nicole Kidman about 196 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: you know, just how beautiful and wonderful and perfect she is. 197 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: But he doesn't want to go and like socialize with 198 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: other people and go to the party eerily. 199 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 2: This character reminded Stephanie of Greg. 200 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 3: He just wants this little bubble of his little. 201 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: Family, and he loves being adored by his patience. Just 202 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:26,839 Speaker 1: this really engaging charismatic personality, but yet doesn't necessarily always 203 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 1: want to be social unless he can be the center 204 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: of attention. As it became more and more clear that 205 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: the Hugh Grant character had this tremendous secret, it just 206 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: made this feeling in my gut, say, you know who 207 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: else has secrets? 208 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 3: Your own husband? 209 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 2: It's unsettling to see a depiction of a violent and 210 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 2: manipulative character on TV and think, hey, that reminds me 211 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 2: of my husband. That's exactly what happened to Stephanie. There 212 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 2: was a nagging feeling, a twist in her gut that 213 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 2: felt distantly familiar. Stephanie had felt this before. After one 214 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 2: big fight she'd had with Greg years ago in twenty sixteen, 215 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 2: Stephanie had found out about a secret her husband was keeping. 216 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 2: Here's what happened back then. 217 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: On this particular weekend in twenty sixteen. It was just 218 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: a weekend trip with another couple. The guys had been 219 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: golfing all day, as girls had been hiking and sightseeing, 220 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: and we got back to the hotel and got ready 221 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: and went out for dinner, the four of us. And 222 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: after dinner, I wanted to take a picture of the 223 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 1: fur of us, and I was like, Oh, my phone 224 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: is somewhere in the bottom of my purse. 225 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 3: Just give me yours. So I grabbed. 226 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 1: His phone and I opened the camera. 227 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 3: In the bottom corner. 228 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: It showed the last photo he had taken, And the 229 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: last photo he had taken was of me getting ready 230 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: in our hotel room. 231 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 3: Nude from the waistep I had no idea it had 232 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 3: been taken. 233 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 2: So I see this photo of. 234 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: Me on his phone, and I don't want to say 235 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: anything in front of our friends, So we take the picture. 236 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 3: I say, I'm not feeling well. We go back to 237 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 3: the room. 238 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: I hold onto his phone the whole time until we 239 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: get up there, and I'm like, what is this? 240 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 3: What the hell? 241 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 2: Stephanie enjoyed the physical intimacy of her marriage. She thought 242 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 2: it was in a healthy place. There were boundaries. 243 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: I did not ever consent to that. I did not 244 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: ever say I would do that. And he also knew 245 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: that there had been a few times throughout the years 246 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: when he had asked about taking pictures and I very 247 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: adamantly said no and talked with him about things like 248 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: what if the kids open to your phone. I just 249 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: don't want to take the chance that anything would ever 250 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: get out there. 251 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 3: And here's the thing, I told him, I'm live and 252 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 3: in person. 253 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: You see me, you see my body every day, and 254 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to have sex with my husband. I felt 255 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: like that was an important part of our love and 256 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: our marriage. 257 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 3: Shouldn't that be enough. 258 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 2: Instead of respecting her boundary around pornography and nude photos, 259 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 2: Greg had used it against her, twisted it to explain 260 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 2: away his own indiscretions. 261 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: He knew that I was adamantly opposed to pornography, and 262 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: the reasoning he gave for taking pictures of me was 263 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: he felt that he shouldn't look at pornography and instead 264 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: he would create his own just for himself. He ended 265 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: up telling me, I've only ever done it a couple times. 266 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: There's only a few pictures. I wanted it to make 267 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: sense because I couldn't breathe without him. 268 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 2: When they got home from that vacation back in twenty sixteen, 269 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 2: Stephanie moved into the guest bedroom. She was mad. It 270 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 2: stayed that way for a few weeks. They still worked 271 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 2: together and kept the same routine, but they slept in 272 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 2: separate bedrooms. Greg worked hard to earn her forgiveness. 273 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: One evening in early September, you know, after this had 274 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 1: been going on for a few weeks, that I was 275 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: in the other bedroom. I was sitting in the family 276 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: room watching TV, and he came over and he knelt 277 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: in front of me and he sobbed. I mean just 278 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: the tears and the snot and the whole thing, just 279 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: poured his. 280 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 3: Heart out at how terrible. 281 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: He felt that he had ever done anything like that, 282 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: and that he would never do anything to jeopardize our 283 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: relationship because I'm the most important thing in the world. 284 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: Our marriage is the most important thing in the world. 285 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: He can't live without me, and there's nothing he wouldn't 286 00:17:58,280 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: do for my. 287 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 3: Forgiveness, and so. 288 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 2: I forgave him under a few conditions. 289 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,479 Speaker 1: The one thing that I made him agree to was 290 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: that I had access to all of his devices anytime 291 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: I wanted, all his passwords, everything, and I could check 292 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: them whenever I wanted without question. 293 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 3: He absolutely agreed to that, and she lived like that. 294 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 2: For six years, checking his phone and devices three times 295 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 2: a week. 296 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 1: So the trust was in a really tenuous place after 297 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. 298 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 3: But now balance that with everything else is perfect. 299 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 2: She believed her husband when he said it began and 300 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 2: ended with that photo he took of her on vacation, 301 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 2: Like she says, everything else about their life was fantastic. 302 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 2: So slowly they worked through it. During hardships, trust, love 303 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 2: and bonds are often forged even stronger. 304 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: It just was this very grounding feeling that as long 305 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: as I had that relationship, as long as we were together, 306 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: there really wasn't anything that I couldn't handle, that I 307 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: couldn't get through. 308 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 3: And as much. 309 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: As I talk about how great and how content and 310 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: how wonderful everything felt, I always had an eye and 311 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 1: an ear out for anything to be off. 312 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 2: The couple resumed their normal routine. Every night. Stephanie went 313 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 2: to bed early to read, while her husband would stay 314 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 2: up late fiddling around with his guilty pleasure fantasy sports. 315 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 2: And I mean a lot of fantasy sports. 316 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: He would participate in ten or twelve fantasy. 317 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 2: Football leagues every year. 318 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 3: He would do. 319 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: Fantasy baseball and golf, and so he would spend a 320 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of time. Sometimes I'd wake up at one 321 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: two in the morning and be like, are you coming 322 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: to bed? Because he was still on his computer doing 323 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 1: fantasy football. But he wasn't, That's not what he was doing. 324 00:20:47,840 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 2: After the break, Stephanie makes a life shattering discovery. There 325 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 2: is a photo of Stephanie on vacation with her husband. 326 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 2: She is staring into his eyes. The two look madly 327 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 2: in love, infatuated, almost smiling so big. It's like they 328 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 2: just started dating, not twenty two years into their marriage. 329 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 2: Looking at that picture, I think good for them. They 330 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 2: persevered through a tough financial crisis with their business, but 331 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 2: made it out the other side. They were coasting into retirement, 332 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 2: and they even worked through a major trust issue, the 333 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 2: fallout after Stephanie found a naked photo of her on 334 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 2: her husband's phone. But intuition is an interesting thing, that 335 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 2: twist of the gut. Six years had come and gone, 336 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 2: she had forgiven her husband, they had a happy life, 337 00:21:55,359 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 2: yet something still churned inside Stephanie. On an unseasonably warm 338 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 2: day in April twenty twenty one, she was home alone 339 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 2: while Greg was out golfing with his friends. 340 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 3: I had that feeling. 341 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: I was like, I got to check all his stuff 342 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 1: while he's gone. I saw his laptop was sitting there 343 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 1: by his recliner. I picked it up and I took 344 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: it over to the kitchen counter and that was where 345 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: I was sitting, and I literally just lifted it up 346 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: and it was there. The pages were open. He had 347 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: a Flicker account filled with nude photos of me, Hundreds 348 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 1: of pictures, lots and lots of them that were like 349 00:22:53,000 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: the one I saw him take me getting ready shower, bathtub, 350 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Lots of photos taken when we 351 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: were at our time, sharing Cancun from angles that I 352 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: would never have agreed to. 353 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 2: To make it even more disturbing, there were captions under 354 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 2: the photos of Stephanie, disgusting captions. It's uncomfortable for me 355 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 2: to even read this, but it shows just how degraded 356 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 2: Stephanie felt. One caption read made your wife eat my comb. 357 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 2: These photos were live posted on the Internet for anyone 358 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 2: to access. In the moment, Stephanie was panicked. 359 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: I'm in the account and I'm deleting, deleting, deleting, deleting, 360 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: and then something in me went, I gotta have evidence 361 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: of this at that point, not even thinking it was illegal, like, 362 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: I can't even believe. 363 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 3: This, No one is ever going to believe me. 364 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: So I took some screenshots and then deleted, so that 365 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,479 Speaker 1: I deleted all the naked pictures out of his account. 366 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 2: She was in reaction mode, horrified and angry. She confronted 367 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 2: him right away. 368 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: I texted him a screenshot of that picture of me 369 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 1: in the bikini, and. 370 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 2: With that picture she typed out a message. In that message, 371 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 2: she called Greg by his online alias you see on 372 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 2: all of his accounts. He didn't use his real name. Instead, 373 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 2: he used the name of one of his patients, a 374 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 2: patient who was a mentally disabled adult. 375 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 1: So on the morning of the eleventh I sent this text, 376 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: we need to talk. You better come home so he 377 00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: knows he's busted. He comes flying home and it's all 378 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: there on the computer. There's no backing his way out 379 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: of it. This time, his reaction is one hundred percent 380 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: of her than it was the time before. 381 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 3: He readily confessed to all of it. 382 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:26,199 Speaker 1: No tears, no remorse, no regret, no care whatsoever. He 383 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: talked to me like he was telling me I went 384 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 1: to the store and got a gallon of milk. 385 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 2: In addition to the photos of herself, there were photos 386 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 2: of other women. What was this and why did he 387 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 2: have these photos? 388 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 3: He said, I have those pictures of those other women 389 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 3: because I trade. 390 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 1: Like kids trade Pokemon cards, I would trade your image. 391 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 2: Stephanie is usually a very calm person. She can count 392 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 2: on one hand the times she's ever raised her voice 393 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 2: at her family, But on this day she lost it. 394 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: I was screaming, taking pictures off the wall and just 395 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: smashing them. I took the kitty litter box and dumped 396 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 1: it in his bed. I mean, I broke a. 397 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 3: Lot of stuff completely out of character. 398 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: I was screaming and breaking things to the point where 399 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 1: it set off the house alarm because we had glass 400 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: break sensors, and because there were so many things being 401 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,120 Speaker 1: smashed and so much screaming, the sensors went off. 402 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 2: On the day she found out, she was so mad 403 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 2: she couldn't even process the bigger question. 404 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: I mean, it really took me about twenty four hours 405 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: to get to the point of looking at that and going, 406 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: I don't understand how he could take those pictures without 407 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: me knowing. 408 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 2: She squinted at the photos, trying to remember when and 409 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 2: where they were taken. 410 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 3: There was a series of photos of me. 411 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: On the bed at our time share, and I'm fully naked, 412 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: spread eagle on the bed, and. 413 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 3: There's close ups. 414 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: There's no way you can get that angle on a 415 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: person without them knowing you're there. 416 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 2: There was only one way it could have happened. 417 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 3: I know what happened. He drugged me. Yeah, he drugged me. 418 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 2: There was twenty two years of marriage, the vows they'd taken, 419 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 2: the business they'd grown together, the children they'd raised, their 420 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 2: plans for retirement, and then there was this stranger, this man. 421 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 2: She slept beside, a man who was drugging her, hosting 422 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 2: photos of her nude body on the internet, photos with 423 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 2: her face in them, photos captioned with her real first name, 424 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 2: all for his own enjoyment. On the next episode of Betrayal, 425 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 2: Stephanie runs for her life. 426 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: At five am. They were on the phone and said, 427 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: get out, get out. We are afraid he is going 428 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: to kill you. This is a huge secret. He is 429 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: not going to want anyone to know you are in danger. 430 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: Get out, don't take anything, just get out right now. 431 00:28:55,240 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 2: Next time, Stephanie starts her own investigation, she finds out 432 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 2: what her husband was really doing online, and what she 433 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 2: discovers is worse than she could have ever imagined. If 434 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 2: you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team 435 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 2: or want to tell us your betrayal story, email us 436 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 2: at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod at 437 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 2: gmail dot com. Also, please be sure to follow us 438 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 2: at Glass Podcasts on Instagram for all Betrayal content, news 439 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 2: and updates. We're grateful for your support. One way to 440 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 2: show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple 441 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 2: Podcasts and don't forget to rate and review Betrayal five 442 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 2: star reviews, go a long way, a big thank you 443 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 2: to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of 444 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 2: Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership 445 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 2: with iHeart Podcasts. The show was executive produced by Nancy 446 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 2: Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me Andrea Gunning, 447 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 2: written and produced by Monique Leboard, also produced by Ben Fetterman. 448 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 2: Associate producers are Kristin Melcurie and Grace Bollinger. Our iHeart 449 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 2: team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krincheck. Special thanks to Stephanie. 450 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 2: Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio. Betrayal's theme composed 451 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 2: by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by my Music and 452 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 453 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.