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Speaker 1: Always unplugging is Forgotten Seasons? What is up?

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Speaker 2: Everybody? Welcome to Forgotten Seasons. This is your host, Dylan Dreyfuss.

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Speaker 2: Today we got a juicy one for you, chopping up

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Speaker 2: about the two thousand and four Lakers with Jolennie McCoy

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Speaker 2: and Josiah Johnson. Jelanni was an eight year pro a

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Speaker 2: member of the two thousand and two Lakers squad, so

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Speaker 2: he's got a great perspective on this year having been

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Speaker 2: inside of the locker room with Shaq, Kobe, and Phil

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Speaker 2: just a few years prior. Josiah, if you're on Twitter,

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Speaker 2: you know who he is, the King of NBA Twitter.

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Speaker 2: In two thousand and four, he was a junior on

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Speaker 2: the UCLA basketball team in the heart of Los Angeles,

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Speaker 2: taking all of the drama in We're gonna be diving deep,

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Speaker 2: giving you telling you everything about this two thousand and

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Speaker 2: four Lakers squad, the last year of the shack In

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Speaker 2: Kobe duo, in the year that their relationship just really

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Speaker 2: explodes publicly, we got Gearry Payton and Karl Malone coming

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Speaker 2: into the fold.

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Speaker 3: I think what.

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Speaker 2: People forget about this year is that when the team

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Speaker 2: was healthy, they were really, really good. We see and

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Speaker 2: hear a lot of parallels today between that two thousand

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Speaker 2: and four team and this year's twenty twenty two Lakers squad,

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Speaker 2: but the reality is they were very different. Yes, they

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Speaker 2: had veterans, but this twenty four team, fifty six wins,

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Speaker 2: two seed in the West.

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Speaker 3: Knocked out the defending champs.

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Speaker 2: Spurs and made it all the way to the finals,

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Speaker 2: where they did lose to the best five Alive Piston squad,

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Speaker 2: one of my favorite teams. A reminder to rate and

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Speaker 2: review the podcast, it really helps forgotten seasons. With Jolnni

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Speaker 2: McCoy and Josiah Johnson on the two thousand and.

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Speaker 3: Four Lakers begins right now, how's it going, Fellas?

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Speaker 1: No good? How you doing today? I can't comply.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing good. I'm excited about this combo. We got Jilani.

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Speaker 2: Not too many people that played on the Lakers in

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Speaker 2: the early two thousands, you're one of them. Josiah Staple

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Speaker 2: of NBA Twitter and Lakers Twitter, and in two thousand

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Speaker 2: and four, at this time, you were a junior at

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Speaker 2: UCLA as always one team, one season, two thousand and

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Speaker 2: four Lakers. Today, we've talked offline soap opera of a season.

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Speaker 2: When I got into the research and I knew that

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Speaker 2: Josiah was coming on, I started thinking like, man, it's

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Speaker 2: a shame that Twitter was not around in two thousand

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Speaker 2: and four for this team. And it had me thinking, like, Josiah,

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Speaker 2: can you think of any other teams, not just in

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Speaker 2: basketball history, but in sports history that pre date Twitter

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Speaker 2: that would have been more fun to commentate in tweet about.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think, you know, Showtime Lakers era definitely

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Speaker 4: has to be mentioned as well, because the shit they

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Speaker 4: were getting off in the eighties. You know, he talked

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Speaker 4: about Form Club and everything that was going on off there,

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Speaker 4: just the stories I would you know, my dad was

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Speaker 4: obviously playing for the Clippers at that time, but just

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Speaker 4: the things he would going to magic parties, which were

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Speaker 4: the stuff of legend, and obviously, you know you kind

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Speaker 4: of saw the ramifications of some of those things that

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Speaker 4: were going on. But yeah, it was a different time.

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Speaker 4: But I was a junior in college at that point,

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Speaker 4: so I was trying to be a square. I think

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Speaker 4: Ben Hallen had just taken over at UCLA, and Ben

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Speaker 4: didn't really fuck with me, So I would have not

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Speaker 4: been on Twitter at this point and I would have

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Speaker 4: been operating in the.

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Speaker 1: Shadows DM Burner account, you know, pre KD type shit.

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Speaker 2: I think your boy Gilbert Arenez's wizard seems like coincide

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Speaker 2: with the beginning of Twitter. But if that was a

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Speaker 2: little bit later, I can't imagine like what that would

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Speaker 2: have been going on. Like to go back to the

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Speaker 2: two thousand and four Lakers, I don't think that we

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Speaker 2: can really tell this story beginning in two thousand and three.

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Speaker 2: I think we have to go back a few years. Jilani.

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Speaker 2: You being with the team in two thousand and two,

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Speaker 2: I think that's sort of when the Kobe Shack beef

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Speaker 2: quote unquote started. If you remember in two thousand when

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Speaker 2: they won their first championship, Kobe's still a kid. I

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Speaker 2: think it's clearly Shack's team. But then two thousand and

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Speaker 2: one oh two, that's when Kobe really starts to become

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Speaker 2: the Mamba. He becomes the Alpha, and it's really one

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Speaker 2: A and one B. I'm curious just to hear from you,

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Speaker 2: having been inside that locker room with both of them

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and two, what do you have to

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Speaker 2: say about their relationship then and what did you notice

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Speaker 2: being in those practices in the locker room at games.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was bubbling. It wasn't.

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Speaker 5: It wasn't you know, at at his height of everything,

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Speaker 5: but it was bubbling. You could see the small things

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Speaker 5: happen around the locker room, you know, on the road,

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean, when you're out of eating

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Speaker 5: you can see the division happening, and with the team,

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Speaker 5: because you got to go with big fella, who's you

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Speaker 5: know what I mean, obviously the face of the Lakers

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Speaker 5: at the time, you know what I mean, it's probably

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Speaker 5: one of the biggest faces in the league. But you

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Speaker 5: got this other you got Kobe over here, who's you know,

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Speaker 5: coming into his own it has already been through so much,

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Speaker 5: failing in the playoffs against Utah, winning a couple of championships,

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Speaker 5: being you know what I mean, being one beat at

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Speaker 5: some times when I don't know any other team, he

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Speaker 5: would have been one a the whole time. So Shack

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Speaker 5: is you know, it's fun. He's a lighthearted, but he's

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Speaker 5: a big duty. He's a big personality. And big dudes

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Speaker 5: don't play that shit, you know what I mean. You

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Speaker 5: can't come in and shooting up all the balls and

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Speaker 5: taking a ball of commercials and you know, time away

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Speaker 5: from the big guys, especially you know, Shaq was big

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Speaker 5: off the court too, He's larger than life. So I

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Speaker 5: think it was bubbling. You know, Phil was doing with

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Speaker 5: Phil does, playing with people's minds and shit, you know

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Speaker 5: what I mean, talking to people through the media, sending

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Speaker 5: weird old messages that you know, obviously you.

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Speaker 1: Know, only Phil can do.

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Speaker 3: He's writing a book.

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Speaker 2: He's writing a book too in two thousand and four,

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Speaker 2: comes out the year after, so he's chronicling everything that's

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Speaker 2: going on.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, Phil's a little bit of premium done itself,

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean. With the bulls, He's already

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Speaker 5: won one his fair share of rings already, so he's

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Speaker 5: got the recipe again. He has two of the better

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Speaker 5: players in the NBA, but he didn't have the harmony that.

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Speaker 1: He had in Chicago.

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Speaker 5: Los Angeles is in Chicago, you know, and this is

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Speaker 5: a big city, you know, to be off the court,

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Speaker 5: the fans are very knowledgeable. That's sweat you at the

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Speaker 5: gas station while you're pumping your gas if you're in

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Speaker 5: a code strict So I think it was just so

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Speaker 5: happened that it was at the beginning of the Grumblings,

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Speaker 5: Cubby was coming into his.

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Speaker 1: Own and Shaq was beat up.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, check out a hell of a run his availability

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Speaker 5: as a big player, you know what I mean. He

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Speaker 5: was playing a lot of games until the ar three

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Speaker 5: to twelve, and you know, playing long into the playoff

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Speaker 5: season when he didn't want to get in shack.

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Speaker 6: He wanted to use training camps to get in shack.

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Speaker 5: So you know what I mean. It was it was

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Speaker 5: just a perfect storm. At the end of the day,

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Speaker 5: where a big Phillip was at in his career. Where

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Speaker 5: Phil was at was theirs. It's obviously the Lakers, you

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Speaker 5: know what I mean. So it's just a big time

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Speaker 5: sop opera at the end of the day.

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Speaker 2: One hundred and we fast forward from two thousand and

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Speaker 2: two to the two thousand and three playoffs. This is

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Speaker 2: after the Lakers win the three peat. They've won thirteen

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Speaker 2: consecutive playoff series in a row, and they get bounced

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Speaker 2: by San Antonio. Soon after that, they call for reinforcements.

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Speaker 2: They bring in a thirty five year old Gary Payton,

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Speaker 2: a forty year old Karl Alone. They take massive pay

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Speaker 2: cuts to chase their ring. They're both old and in

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Speaker 2: sort of the final chapter of their career, but still

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Speaker 2: very good NBA players, both of you, maybe maybe Josiah

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Speaker 2: to start, like, can you recall when that happened, when

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Speaker 2: Peyton and Malone came and can you remember sort of

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Speaker 2: what the what the beat with NBA fans was like.

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Speaker 2: Were people saying, like, Okay, the Lakers are going to

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Speaker 2: get right back on top with these two Hall of famers.

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Speaker 3: What is the overall vibe? What are people saying at

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Speaker 3: this time?

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Speaker 1: No, it's crazy to.

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Speaker 4: Think now, And really didn't look at Malone as a

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Speaker 4: forty year old back then. Obviously he had just had

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Speaker 4: a great career with the Jazz John Stock and just retired.

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Speaker 4: But it was more so Gary Payton, who my dad

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Speaker 4: used to work for the Sonics, so you know, I

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Speaker 4: had a relationship with him and just knew he meant

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Speaker 4: to the Northwest and he was you know, you know,

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Speaker 4: Milwaukee is a great city, but for for GP who's

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Speaker 4: used to the Pacific Northwest. Johnny obviously you played with

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Speaker 4: the Sonics as well. Making that shift to Milwaukee really

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Speaker 4: from anywhere, it is a tough move. So when you

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Speaker 4: see La the glitz and glamour, and I remember, honestly

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Speaker 4: as a kid, my dad had a relationship with Gary.

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Speaker 4: So when Gary, before he got drafted, came out to LA,

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Speaker 4: we picked him up from the airport. He came and

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Speaker 4: hung out for a little bit, worked out out here.

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Speaker 4: He's an Oakland guy, so just you know, the bright

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Speaker 4: lights and coming to Hollywood. You know, didn't face him and all,

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Speaker 4: he didn't a fuck about anything. Just to be real,

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Speaker 4: like he was the biggest ship talk I think I've

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Speaker 4: ever seen, just the Outlanders wild ship that my dad

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Speaker 4: would tell me when him and Kevin Calabra were call

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Speaker 4: him signing things back in the day, coming at George Carl,

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Speaker 4: coming at whoever. It really did matter. I'm sure you know,

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Speaker 4: John could you could watch about all that stuff. But

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Speaker 4: I think if you know, when you're growing up in

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Speaker 4: LA and you're seeing the Lakers, it was just it

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Speaker 4: was it was championship. You see that happened. Oh we

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Speaker 4: got Malone, we got Gary Payton. This was you know,

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Speaker 4: pre social pre all those times with analytics and advanced

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Speaker 4: stats and all that type of shit. So you just think,

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Speaker 4: all we got these two dudes. They're gonna fit in

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Speaker 4: nicely with his squad. Even if not, I would compare

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Speaker 4: it to like that the Warriors squad when KD came,

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Speaker 4: It's just like, we got these stars coming in. There's

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Speaker 4: nobody that's gonna really run our faith. And I think

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Speaker 4: you saw that as this team started off to that

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Speaker 4: hot start. But you know, like Johnny you mentioned, I

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Speaker 4: had to go back and even look this up. You

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Speaker 4: have the situation with Shaq and Kobe. I believe after

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Speaker 4: that first championship, that was the last time that that

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Speaker 4: Shaq took more shots in Kobe, despite shooting like eight

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Speaker 4: to ten percent better from the field. And that's Kobe's

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Speaker 4: just establishing the dominance. Kobe comes here as a high

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Speaker 4: schooler in Philly. He's Jerry Busse's guy. You know, he's

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Speaker 4: the dude he starts to really believe it, and I

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Speaker 4: think at times, you know, he forced me into play

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Speaker 4: in the situation where he's taking bad shots, but he's

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Speaker 4: trying to be that Jordan type of player. And like

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Speaker 4: Jolani mentioned, you see Shaq and that's the thing about

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Speaker 4: big Man. A lot of people don't understand, like you

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Speaker 4: got Yao Ming's career was ended off a foot entry.

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Speaker 4: Like when big men get hurt, that shit is magnified.

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Speaker 4: So for somebody like Kobe's who loves game playing, working

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Speaker 4: out eleven ten hours, ten eleven hours to day to

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Speaker 4: see Shaq, you know, not doing that shit showing up

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Speaker 4: the training camp to get in shape.

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Speaker 1: He's gonna take that personal.

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Speaker 4: Also shocked as I'm sure Jalana can really get into

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Speaker 4: taking certain digs, and also a likable dude.

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Speaker 1: Growing up in La, Shaq was visible. Kobe was living

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Speaker 1: in Orange County.

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Speaker 4: Kobe wasn't really around a lot like I can recall

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Speaker 4: a few times driving down the four or five and

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Speaker 4: grid Iron traffic and you see shaqing the escalator, shacking

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Speaker 4: the Mercedes bins that's got the you know, the customized

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Speaker 4: played with the Superman logo on it, and you roll

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Speaker 4: up on Shack.

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Speaker 1: He's on the window down giving you the peace sign.

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Speaker 1: You have to Fox Hills Small.

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Speaker 4: I remember the year after Shock got traded to Miami

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Speaker 4: came back with the Christmas game, Shaq's at the fire

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Speaker 4: Foxes Mall doing a big Christmas deal. You know, I

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Speaker 4: think address of sand or whatever. That's just not what

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Speaker 4: Kobe's makeup and mentality was. So it was definitely, you know,

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Speaker 4: from an LA perspective, Shaq was kind of the guy.

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Speaker 4: I was large than life, seven foot one, walking around

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Speaker 4: the city everywhere you went. You know, Shaq and Kobe

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Speaker 4: was kind of, I think, tired of being the sidekick,

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Speaker 4: tired of being in that shadow. But as Los Angeleos,

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Speaker 4: when that move happened, you're all right, yeah, we're just

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Speaker 4: right back to the championship ways. Like you know that

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Speaker 4: the squad obviously have faltered against the Spurs, but coming

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Speaker 4: back with GP and Karl Malone and you know, an older,

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Speaker 4: an older, more and more seasoned Kobe and Shaq, it

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Speaker 4: just seemed like a no brainer that the squad would

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Speaker 4: be hoisting the O'Brian trophy coming into two thousand four seasons.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent, Johnny, I want to pivot

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Speaker 2: to you and Josiah.

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Speaker 3: You mentioned it, like I think Shaq wanted to be

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Speaker 3: that guy. He wanted to be the face.

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Speaker 2: He took a lot of pride in saying to the media,

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Speaker 2: I'm the one that brought Gary Payton and Karl alone here,

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Speaker 2: I was the.

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Speaker 3: One that was on the phone with them.

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Speaker 2: He's concerned about sort of being the center of that

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Speaker 2: locker room, the heartbeat of the city. On the other hand,

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Speaker 2: Kobe is that like solid to guy who really just

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Speaker 2: cares about him doing what he has to do to

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Speaker 2: win a championship. And I think those sort of collision courses,

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Speaker 2: like you said, Jolana was bubbling in two thousand and two,

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Speaker 2: but this is when it really pops. What do you

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Speaker 2: have to say about that? And just like the differing

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Speaker 2: personalities of Kobe and Shaq.

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Speaker 5: Well they are polar opposites in their approach. You know,

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Speaker 5: Shaq is more all encompassing, like like you know, to

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Speaker 5: at Angelino's point, you know, somebody growing up in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 5: Seriously like the fact that Shaq was accessible, that he

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Speaker 5: was like you can pull up a Shaq and roscas

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean, if you wanted to take

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Speaker 5: a picture when you saw Shaq, he was going to

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Speaker 5: take that picture with you, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 5: That's just how big fella is. Anywhere that he goes in,

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Speaker 5: he might buy everybody lunch, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: He was out in the clubs, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 5: The soon when the Century Club was cracking, you know

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Speaker 5: what I mean, Shaq was in there and in the

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Speaker 5: Century Club soon getting it in. Kobe was nowhere to

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Speaker 5: be found at the end of the day, you know,

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Speaker 5: after he got beat up and Los Angeles kind of

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Speaker 5: put him in a bubble or a hole or a cave,

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Speaker 5: so to speak. After the Utah series when he when

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Speaker 5: he when he failed in front of everybody's eyes, I

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Speaker 5: felt like he retreated to a place where he ended

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Speaker 5: up building a black mamba. And at the same time,

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Speaker 5: Shaq has always been larger than life. He was a

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Speaker 5: man in Orland, it was the man as soon as

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Speaker 5: he got here. In La everybody knew it was championship

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Speaker 5: or bus. Everybody knows the lineage of the Lakers centers,

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Speaker 5: and he was well aware of that when he came here.

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Speaker 6: So I just think it was two just polar opposite

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Speaker 6: approaches that.

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Speaker 5: Couldn't be couldn't be any opposite, but at the but

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Speaker 5: couldn't be so much right for each other like it could.

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Speaker 5: It was so wrong that it was so right, you

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Speaker 5: know what I mean, because they needed each other. They

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Speaker 5: needed Kobe needed to see Shaq, maybe down like that,

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Speaker 5: so he would want to catch up and send his

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Speaker 5: body into him in the mind and the places that

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Speaker 5: nobody goes to, and maybe Shaq. If Shaq doesn't have

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Speaker 5: Kobe maybe he doesn't chase that ring in Miami, you

302
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Speaker 5: know what I mean, maybe big, but it doesn't never

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Speaker 5: really try to get it shaped during the off season,

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean. Or go to Miami where

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Speaker 5: he knows Ridley is going to hold him accountable. Got

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Speaker 5: to keep his body fat and you go to the heat.

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Speaker 5: You got to keep your body fat down to a

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Speaker 5: certain level. Three hour practices, tape, shoot arounds, the whole nine.

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Speaker 5: He signed up for that. I don't think he signs

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Speaker 5: up for that. If Kobe doesn't do is what he

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Speaker 5: does too?

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Speaker 1: Shack, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 5: We've all seen the famous interview that they have where

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Speaker 5: they're asking each other's question, is Kobe you know Kobe is?

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Speaker 5: Jack asked Kobe if he was mad when he found

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Speaker 5: out that he won the you know, one more ring,

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Speaker 5: and Shack, you know what I mean, he was like,

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Speaker 5: you knew I was at home piss throwing shit around.

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Speaker 5: I think when we were around greatness, like even when

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Speaker 5: it gets shady or ugly, I think it only adds

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Speaker 5: to the Potto makes everybody rides to be in casey

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Speaker 5: and make sure the top you know, seventy five, top

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Speaker 5: fifty at the time, player.

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Speaker 2: No, it's an interesting way to look at it. And

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Speaker 2: so we mentioned the bubbling and right before the season

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Speaker 2: that we're focusing on today. I think this is sort

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Speaker 2: of the bursting of the bubble. If you guys recall

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Speaker 2: Kobe gives this famous interview to Jim Gray, who was

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Speaker 2: on All the Smoke he recalled it. He calls Shaq fat,

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Speaker 2: he calls him lazy, he calls him childlike.

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Speaker 3: Kobe is, of course, going through his whole trial.

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Speaker 2: He said that over the summer when when he was

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Speaker 2: on trial, he was getting support from people like Tiger

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Speaker 2: Woods teammates, Michael Jordan, even Shaq's uncle, but he didn't

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Speaker 2: hear anything from Shaq the entire summer. And this is

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Speaker 2: when sort of it all happens. It's now out in

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Speaker 2: the public. Maybe it was kind of brushing in the

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Speaker 2: locker room, but now it's on ESPN, it's in the

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Speaker 2: La times. I mean, maybe Jilanni, like, you're in the

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Speaker 2: league at this time, like, what are your peers saying

341
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Speaker 2: in the league? Like can people kind of like did

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Speaker 2: people know this was coming? Or is this sort of

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Speaker 2: a shock to everybody?

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's like all the fairy tale, it's all

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Speaker 5: out in La La Land, you know what I mean

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Speaker 5: with Phil Jackson, you know, and all the multitude of

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Speaker 5: the other history lines that was there. But you just

348
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Speaker 5: knew this was coming, you know what I mean. So

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Speaker 5: many different things that happen, even during the year I

350
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Speaker 5: was there. The Covey went through with different teammates, you know,

351
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Speaker 5: the year previously before that, I think too, this was

352
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Speaker 5: coming off with Chile Child to piece them. Reggie Miller

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Speaker 5: scratched them up against you know what I mean, the

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Speaker 5: scores table. He was going through it. Man, he was

355
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Speaker 5: going through it with teammates. We're trying to impose their

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Speaker 5: will along on Kobe, and Kobe was just you know,

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Speaker 5: taking all of it into account and just going onto

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Speaker 5: a hold and.

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Speaker 6: Being a recluse and using that you know what I

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Speaker 6: mean against people.

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Speaker 5: So, like I said, I think sometimes when you're when

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Speaker 5: you're trying to be great, you're around greatness. You know,

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Speaker 5: the states are high, it's it's it's it's the weirdest

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Speaker 5: the things that motivate you to you know what I mean,

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Speaker 5: do the strangers the things that need it to be

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Speaker 5: you know, three time champions or you know, bringing in

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Speaker 5: it wouldn't even been attractive to Carl Malone and GP

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Speaker 5: to me if there wasn't anyb to be honest with you,

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean, Like they wanted.

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Speaker 1: To join somewhere. They knew about the La story.

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Speaker 5: They thought they can help, you know, be a moderator,

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Speaker 5: you know, in between Shaq and Kobe, and I think

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Speaker 5: that's something that they signed on to, and like you said,

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Speaker 5: it took less money because they feel like that was

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Speaker 5: something where they could be a value as the modern

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Speaker 5: direction in between the shack and side.

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Speaker 2: Well, the season begins and despite all this craziness that's

378
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Speaker 2: going on, they're sort of able to shut people up.

379
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Speaker 2: They start eighteen and three. They beat the Spurs three

380
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Speaker 2: times in that stretch, but then Carl Malone goes down

381
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Speaker 2: with a knee injury and he sort of proves to

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Speaker 2: be like the key piece to that team. He's out

383
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Speaker 2: for a few months, which is like the first injury

384
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Speaker 2: he had in his career, and they really struggle. To me,

385
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Speaker 2: like Carl Malone is, it's frustrating because you look at

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Speaker 2: his resume and he's, no doubt, like one of the

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Speaker 2: best players ever. But then you hear about the shit

388
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Speaker 2: that goes on off the court, and it's like, how

389
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Speaker 2: do we even approach to talk about this guy? Josiah,

390
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Speaker 2: I'm gonna look at you, like, how do we address

391
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Speaker 2: the Utah Jazz? Like, how do how do we even

392
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,360
Speaker 2: begin to talk about them? Do we ignore them? Do

393
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Speaker 2: we celebrate them? What do we do there?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 4: I think when you see what stocked in and Malone

396
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Speaker 4: we're able to do in Utah, especially city like Utah,

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Speaker 4: which we know traditionally is not cracking. I'm saying people

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Speaker 4: are looking at NBA city is to turn up and

399
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,560
Speaker 4: that's not one that you're ever king in on. But

400
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,760
Speaker 4: you know, Stockton retires, Malone comes to and I think

401
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,919
Speaker 4: the crazy thing about Malone and obviously doing the research

402
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,400
Speaker 4: for this episode, I don't want to say you missed

403
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,399
Speaker 4: something like eleven or twelve games total up until that point,

404
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,280
Speaker 4: which you know numerous, you know iron Man with one

405
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,199
Speaker 4: or two games a season if that, And so for

406
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Speaker 4: him to have to go through the situation at laid

407
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,439
Speaker 4: stage in the career, being in LA, it's just a

408
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,720
Speaker 4: bunch of factors that ultimately, you know, don't seem like

409
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,399
Speaker 4: a big issues. Then a lot of guys get hurt

410
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,320
Speaker 4: miss time, but for him Miss thirty nine games. I

411
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,120
Speaker 4: think the spot was like what twenty two and seventeen

412
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Speaker 4: during that period, the mental of that being this Iron

413
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Speaker 4: Man being the minimal always delivers Karl Malone and now

414
00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,280
Speaker 4: not being able to play, being sidelined, seeing wearing like

415
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Speaker 4: the five XLT you know, silk suits on the sideline

416
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,840
Speaker 4: and all that good stuff, but also being in LA

417
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Speaker 4: where there's so much distraction, so many, so many things

418
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Speaker 4: going on. Obviously we know kind of some of Carmelan's

419
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,879
Speaker 4: off the core issues that we would find out, you know,

420
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,040
Speaker 4: later in two thousand and four involving you know, Vanessa

421
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Speaker 4: Bryan in situations like that, it's it's an interesting thing.

422
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,600
Speaker 4: But to know that him and Kobe and Kobe and

423
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,480
Speaker 4: GP had this relationship was pretty phenomenal.

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Speaker 1: And Kobe kind of looked at these.

425
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,639
Speaker 4: Guys as is the OG's and kind of stars that

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00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:20,760
Speaker 4: he could listen to and respect.

427
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Speaker 1: I think that's the one thing about Kobe.

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Speaker 4: You know, if Kobe saw you working hard and knew

429
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Speaker 4: the type of play where he would respect you for that.

430
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Speaker 4: Some of these younger guys we hear like the smush

431
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,320
Speaker 4: jokes and things in years later on, but it's just

432
00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 4: like you know, and I understand if I'm min isn't

433
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:34,760
Speaker 4: in the gym all this time, putting in all this

434
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,359
Speaker 4: work and y'all not in here, Like if I'm here

435
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:38,880
Speaker 4: eight hours, you need to be in here twelve because

436
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,040
Speaker 4: I'm already at a high level and you just kind

437
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:42,679
Speaker 4: of showed up the practice going through the you know,

438
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,240
Speaker 4: remember like the softest charming thing he said later on

439
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,199
Speaker 4: in his career when he was and you kind of

440
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,920
Speaker 4: understand those frustrations, and like Jelani mentioned, he just a recruds.

441
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:52,800
Speaker 1: He's a guy that wants to be by himself.

442
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,879
Speaker 4: I think he was deliberate in moving to Newport because

443
00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,080
Speaker 4: Newport is not close to LA.

444
00:18:58,240 --> 00:18:59,720
Speaker 1: So if you've got to be you know, that's what

445
00:18:59,720 --> 00:18:59,959
Speaker 1: I'm say.

446
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,760
Speaker 4: You got to play games in b in LA and

447
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,000
Speaker 4: obviously him famously taking you know, the helicopter and all

448
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:05,600
Speaker 4: that stuff, but you make that choice.

449
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,200
Speaker 1: That's not a move. I know a lot of I would.

450
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:08,760
Speaker 1: I can't.

451
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 4: I'm hard pressed to find another guy who would operate

452
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:11,920
Speaker 4: like that.

453
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,680
Speaker 1: That's you know, as wild. It's like, yo, I'm living

454
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 1: in LA.

455
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:16,800
Speaker 4: While playing in Open just in terms of the time

456
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 4: just it will take to get a flight out there

457
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,760
Speaker 4: or whatever, but kind of making that point. So yeah,

458
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,800
Speaker 4: so just just to see the way that whole thing

459
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 4: kind of played out with Malone and the mental stigma

460
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,199
Speaker 4: that he had having it now come back from that

461
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,879
Speaker 4: thirty nine game layut because once you get hurt the

462
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:33,359
Speaker 4: first time, you start to think in the back of

463
00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:35,119
Speaker 4: your head, and when you're young, you deal with the

464
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,000
Speaker 4: shit you can overcome and kind of move on. We've

465
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,280
Speaker 4: seen guys nowadays suffer, you know, devastating injuries that are

466
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,240
Speaker 4: able to come back. Kd's one that comes to mind

467
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 4: where back in the days, you know, Kobe suffered that

468
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,160
Speaker 4: same achilles injury, injury his career is pretty much effectively done.

469
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,320
Speaker 4: KD suffered and within the MVP discussion, you know what

470
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,800
Speaker 4: I mean, like coming back you know, a big foot

471
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,920
Speaker 4: away from uh you know, leading leading the Nest to

472
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,199
Speaker 4: a championship. So from alone, just that I think that

473
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,200
Speaker 4: stigma having to come back and being forty years old

474
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 4: at that point, like how much long were you really

475
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:03,440
Speaker 4: going to do that?

476
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,160
Speaker 1: You know, you realize and this is.

477
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,320
Speaker 4: Not like a twenty twenty two forty, This is a

478
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,920
Speaker 4: two four forty, which really like being like forty five

479
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 4: in this time range in terms of the medical advancement

480
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 4: and things like that.

481
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 1: So him having to shit watch all that in thirty

482
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:18,000
Speaker 1: nine game, that's ship a lot of time.

483
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 4: Like you go through the training camp, put all that

484
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 4: work in, now trying to get into the season fom this,

485
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,639
Speaker 4: he's a late season form and now you basically resetting

486
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:26,879
Speaker 4: and trying to start over from scratch.

487
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 5: Well, you to add to that, You got to think

488
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,440
Speaker 5: about what Carl Malone added to the triangle offense. Yeah,

489
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,400
Speaker 5: in the center, Karl Malone could work, Yeah, he can

490
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,119
Speaker 5: work at the pinnach, he can work on the post,

491
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. Excellent pastor was basically playing

492
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,159
Speaker 5: in the basteardization of the triangle in Utah. If you

493
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 5: follow the Utah system and how they used to throw

494
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 5: the ball into it and run the splits, that's a

495
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,880
Speaker 5: lot what you run on strong side in the triangle

496
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 5: when the strong side is filled.

497
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 6: So Carl Malone was built for the triangle.

498
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,640
Speaker 5: Phil Jackson used to call the triangle white Man's offense

499
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 5: at the end of the day, and I feel like

500
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 5: Utah ran the same version of white man basketball, and

501
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 5: in Utah, you know what I mean. Using John Stockton

502
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 5: to come over and free Carl Malone with the dirty

503
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:17,240
Speaker 5: as screens and John Jeff Horne with Jeff heartbringing Ooster Tag,

504
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 5: just these people that just out there. In a way,

505
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 5: I felt like that was almost a relief for Karl

506
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:23,840
Speaker 5: Malone because he had.

507
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 6: Some other that's the first time playing with talent like.

508
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 5: That GP, Shaquille O'Neil. Really it was just him about

509
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,920
Speaker 5: Jeff Hornetsack and John Stockton. Maybe a Bibant Russell here,

510
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,159
Speaker 5: but they didn't really have a top knots talent And

511
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 5: like you, guys hit it on the head to be

512
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,880
Speaker 5: in his bag early at that age and then miss

513
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:41,120
Speaker 5: those amount of games in.

514
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 6: The Triangle, haven't played in the Triangle.

515
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 5: And messes up everything because the Triangle is predicated on

516
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 5: everybody reading each other.

517
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 2: Josiah, you mentioned your relationship with GP and and him

518
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,119
Speaker 2: and your pops going way back. This was a frustrating

519
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 2: season for him. He voiced his frustration there was a

520
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,120
Speaker 2: dynamic between him and Derek Fisher where Fisher was getting more.

521
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 3: Time but GP was playing.

522
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 2: You have any insight into that into his struggling with

523
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,120
Speaker 2: his struggle to acclimate to the Triangle offense after being

524
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 2: sort of a ball dominant point guard his whole career.

525
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 4: I think you know, with GP, he's a he's an

526
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 4: autpha right, He's a he's an intense personality, shit talker,

527
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 4: grew up in Oakland. That's just no matter where he's going,

528
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 4: he's talking shit. You know, the gum with the mouth

529
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 4: to the side, you know that the heavy chew like.

530
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 4: But just so I think he even mentioned it while

531
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 4: he was there. He was he allowed Phil, which I

532
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 4: think was probably the first time in his career were

533
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 4: a coach. You know, he came in respected Phil Phild

534
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 4: the championship level coach obviously with everything he did with

535
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,400
Speaker 4: the Bulls dynasty. So he's starting to listen to Field

536
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 4: and not play his game as much and starting to

537
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 4: kind of, you know, relent and RELINQ with some of

538
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 4: that control and even just that relationship with Derek Fisher

539
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 4: Fish who had won three championships.

540
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:48,679
Speaker 1: I think this summer Rick Fox had touched on.

541
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 4: You got guys that didn't necessarily have the accolades of

542
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 4: a guy like a Malone or GP. But we're champions here,

543
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 4: we've been we've been here, We've been through the struggles.

544
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 4: You know, we were here for all these these great

545
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 4: moments in Lakers lore, and we know what it takes

546
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 4: to play winning basketball. So Derek Fisher now having a

547
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 4: relinquis just starting spot to GP. Understandable. But if I'm fishing,

548
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 4: I'm in the middle of, you know, my contracts about

549
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 4: to be up. I'm trying to get my bag and

550
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 4: get my shit right. And I'm used to being, you know,

551
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 4: kind of I'm not a Kobe or Shack, but I'm

552
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 4: in that conversation with these guys. Rick Fox coming off,

553
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 4: I think the foot injury, but he's like, fuck that,

554
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 4: I'm trying to be the you know, I'm trying to

555
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 4: be the fifth beat on this shit, like I need

556
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 4: to get in the starting lineup.

557
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: So guy kind of pressing a little bit.

558
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 4: But I think for GP, which he even mentioned, having

559
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 4: alone there really helped make his job a lot easier

560
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 4: just in terms of figuring out the triangle, which I

561
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 4: know Johlana can speak too.

562
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: This is not a simple offense to figure out. It's

563
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: complicated as fuck. Yeah, So no matter.

564
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 4: And you're now thirty five year old GP trying to

565
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 4: come learn this complication. You feel like a rookie again.

566
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, you feel like a little kid

567
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 4: out there trying to learn this shit. That's clockwork for

568
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 4: these other guys like Derek Fisher knows this shit better

569
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 4: than me.

570
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 1: He's gonna take that personal to it to an extent.

571
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,199
Speaker 4: But also being in La, the glitz and glamour, and

572
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,360
Speaker 4: you know, being a small marksman Seattle, Milwaukee prior to this,

573
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 4: playing at Oregon State, he never really felt what that

574
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 4: led situation is.

575
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: And this is this is something you just.

576
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 4: See, you know, La the fuck around to get Alex

577
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 4: Carusso almost in the All Star Game.

578
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: That's the magnitude that this fan base wheels.

579
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 4: And like Julni mentioned, this is pre social media, but

580
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 4: this is a fan base where if you don't deliver it,

581
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 4: don't produce, you don't hear about it. And the rumblings

582
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 4: aren't you know, I speak of a deal back then

583
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 4: because you're not you're not opening up Twitter to see

584
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 4: how much people talk shit. But local media is getting

585
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 4: into you. And yeah, you're rolling around town trying to

586
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 4: go have a nice meal somewhere. It's a it's a

587
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 4: conversation point everywhere you go, and people aren't gonna hold

588
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 4: their tongue.

589
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: In Hollywood, you're dealing with elite level execs, professionals, people.

590
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 4: Who are you know, like Gary Payne in their different careers,

591
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 4: so they're not really phased.

592
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: And you know what I mean, I make the joke

593
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: now with Lebron.

594
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 4: Lebron can show up the Leaker fans and motherfucker's in

595
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 4: the stands who are way richer than Lebron. They're not

596
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 4: they're not phased by them. You're not making forty million year.

597
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 4: That's not a lot of money, Like, you know what

598
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 4: I mean. There's three movies this year. I got twenty

599
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 4: miliile different different I'm not looking at you like, Oh Revere,

600
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 4: you like in the Seattle where it's like you are

601
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 4: the main deal out here right, you are the show.

602
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: Like So it's a tough situation.

603
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 5: And GPS isn't built for the triangle coming. I played

604
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 5: with GP for three years in Seattle. He was on

605
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 5: the ball. We did this and we play difference. The

606
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 5: triangle is static basketball. You got to sit hunker down

607
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 5: for a minute, watch him do something, watch him do something,

608
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,120
Speaker 5: and then go for yours. So I think it takes time, man,

609
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 5: it's humbling. And then to add to what you said,

610
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 5: like the Rick Foxes, the Derek Fishers, the Devin Georgia's.

611
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 1: They don't always tell your ask how the Triangle.

612
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 5: They're not coming to let you relinquish those minutes, right,

613
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 5: So typically when you get there, like they hit you

614
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 5: with this ship. Just watch the dude in front of him.

615
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 5: That's basically the extent.

616
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: That's what. That's what the not Phil kind.

617
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 5: Of you might be able to catch Jim Clemens text winners,

618
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, if you have some questions,

619
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 5: But Phil lets the players dictate how the information is getting.

620
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: I want to.

621
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 3: I want to.

622
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 2: I want to go more into Phil because people forget

623
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,959
Speaker 2: about the real like disdain that specifically he and Kobe

624
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: had for each other at this time, it was pretty

625
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 2: open like yeah, I mean, and it happens before probably

626
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 2: when you were there too. Like Kobe, there's this whole narrative.

627
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: Kobe is not a team player. Kobe does not want

628
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 2: to play in the Triangle offense. He he wants his

629
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 2: own offense. It goes so far as Phil basically going

630
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 2: to Jerry Buss. Meanwhile, while Phil is dating Genie Buss,

631
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 2: keep that in mind and saying you got to choose,

632
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 2: but you got to choose between me or Kobe, basically

633
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 2: because Phill's up for an extension too, and and Jerry says, yeah, exactly,

634
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 2: and Mitch Kupchaks is nice try, but we're not trading Kobe.

635
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 1: What is uh? I mean?

636
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 2: We we forget about that because Kobe and Phil won

637
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,199
Speaker 2: the two championships later on in nine and ten. But

638
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 2: I mean, do you think a guy like Phil, a

639
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 2: coach like Phil could succeed in today's NBA Bash's play?

640
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: You do?

641
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 5: Because of the ring power, because of the Michael Jordan,

642
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 5: because of the Scottie Piedman, because of the Dennis Robin,

643
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 5: because of the Kobe, the Shack, the Rick Foxes of

644
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 5: the world.

645
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.

646
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 5: It's about winning, and if you're practicing them, win Phil.

647
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,719
Speaker 5: The altar is approached, you know what I mean. Kobe

648
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 5: the year I was there, he dogged the triangle. He

649
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 5: would have been in the triangle a lot, a lot

650
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 5: like we've seen Michael Jordan. Do we know when alpha

651
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 5: male is cooking? We don't need we know if we

652
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 5: don't need to run open clothes or blind pig or

653
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 5: some of the other calls that we had, you know,

654
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 5: in the triangle for everybody else to get set up

655
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 5: if he could just come down and cook.

656
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 6: I'll tell a quick story one time, which which makes.

657
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 5: Me thinking to the turmoil, as in, I think before

658
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 5: he torched the Mavericks, he torched the Mavericks. So when

659
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 5: I was there, he might have had thirty in two

660
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 5: thousand and two. Who looked this up, Jell, he might

661
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 5: have had thirty or forty in a half and was

662
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 5: killing the Mavericks all by itself in regular season two

663
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 5: in the regular season, and then this is a funny

664
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 5: ass story. They call all the time out Kobe, Phil,

665
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 5: send somebody in for Kobe. The crowd gets a grammar like, oh,

666
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 5: he's coming out. He's got like fortyeth to half. He

667
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 5: probably would have broke that record a lot earlier, you

668
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 5: know what I mean? And feel with Phil pulled him

669
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 5: out of the game because he was fucking with the triangle.

670
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 5: So Phil, PJ pulled him out, And I asked PJ what,

671
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 5: I don't know what the hell I was thinking. I

672
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 5: was just I just walling up on PJ. I'm like that, Oh, man,

673
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 5: you should leave him in the game. Man. This man

674
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 5: turned and looked at me like I had the biggest

675
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 5: pile of shit on top of my head, you know

676
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 5: what I mean. And I was like, ooh, I'm gonna

677
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 5: go back over here to the end of the EVENTU

678
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 5: where you need if you need PJ, you know what

679
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 5: I mean. But that was that was the thing he

680
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 5: was trying to ring Kobe in and still you know,

681
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 5: a p shack, you know, that's what he has to

682
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 5: do as a good head coach. But it was definitely

683
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 5: coming at a time where Kobe just knew that the triangle,

684
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, As much as it was

685
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 5: gonna help him win championships, he knew win.

686
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 6: The you know, abandoned a triangle and do the special

687
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 6: couch mombarship.

688
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: I don't know if we've seen today like a coach

689
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: really call out their best player in the media publicly.

690
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 2: That's why I ask if somebody like Philip could succeed

691
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 2: because he's trying.

692
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 7: I mean, I've seen Doc call out arguably the second

693
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 7: best player, you know what I mean on the squad,

694
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 7: I think, but you just look at the way that

695
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 7: whole situation was going on, and this was a different time, right,

696
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 7: this is not the world we live in now.

697
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 4: We're social and everybody's tweet and we're getting all these

698
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 4: different perspectives and all this other type of shit, you know,

699
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 4: seeing that Shag Jim or seeing the Kobe Jim Gray

700
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 4: ark on, these things pop off.

701
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: I know it probably impacts you a lot more in

702
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: the locker room, but.

703
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 4: Just as we're moving and shaking, this is not We

704
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 4: just don't have the twenty four hour news cycle like

705
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 4: we do nowadays. Right, we don't have Made Sports Center

706
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 4: made to vote a little bit of time too. I

707
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 4: think we had like Best dam Sports or Fox Sports

708
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 4: made to vote a little bit of time to it.

709
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 4: It wasn't around the clock coverage. You know, we weren't

710
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 4: getting the morning show. And then you know, back then

711
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 4: it was like, yeah, listen to radio if you want

712
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 4: to hear that type of shit. You know, if you

713
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 4: was in the car. Now, if I'm at the crib,

714
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 4: I'm not just gonna fucking turn the radio on and

715
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 4: listen to it. So I'm driving somewhere, yeah I'm gonna

716
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 4: listen to Jim or you know, some of these other

717
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 4: guys going off about it. But it's just a wild

718
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 4: thing to think about because I'm sure Shaq's reading those

719
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 4: quotes and when there's more internal beef Phil.

720
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: You know, Phil trying to make that ultimatum.

721
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 4: I know, deep down Phil probably knows like they're not

722
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 4: gonna pick me over Kobe because I'm not gonna go

723
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 4: out there to drop thirty at any point, you know

724
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 4: what I'm saying, Like we can find a coach to

725
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 4: fucking coaching, but you're not gonna lose that talent any

726
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 4: same thing with Shaq, you know, I think in the preseason,

727
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 4: Shack came in Jerry Buss side wins about getting his bread,

728
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 4: deserting me, so yeah, yeah, pay me, you know, and

729
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 4: John Black, the Lakers PR guy, you know, try to

730
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 4: play it down and Jerry Busch tryed to act like

731
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 4: he wasn't a big deal. But Jerry Buss is an

732
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 4: old rich white man, like you know, old rich white men,

733
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 4: in my experience, are generally very sensitive. They don't like

734
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 4: to be one up or shown out by a player

735
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 4: that they're paying to be on their squad.

736
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: That's just real, real talk.

737
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 4: So to see the way Kobe was moving, and that's

738
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 4: just how Kobe's moving in LA Now, I'm on that

739
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 4: MJ level. Like I told you, at one point, like

740
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 4: one season, I think it was like two or three.

741
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 4: Maybe Kobe taking like twenty three shots a game, Shaq's

742
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 4: taking eighteen. Now, if I'm Shack and I'm looking at

743
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 4: this and I'm shooting seven eight percent better from the

744
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 4: field to Kobe, you taking five more fucker shots than me.

745
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 4: But what can I do? Because you need to give

746
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 4: me the rock to score. I'm not bringing the ball

747
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 4: up the court initial and the offense. So I'm kind

748
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 4: of at your mercy, But I know these are situations.

749
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 4: I'm sure you, even Phil probably having a conversation with

750
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 4: coud be like okay and then just go do exactly

751
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 4: what he wants to do, because at this point, I'm

752
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 4: gonna play your hand like I've taken Shacks bullshit for

753
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 4: years now.

754
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: You know, everybody loves Shack.

755
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 4: Everybody kind of treats me like I'm the pariah, like

756
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 4: I'm the outcast, Like all right, well wait until I

757
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 4: drop thirty, the fans are still gonna love me.

758
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy, just as all of these moving parts

759
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: come together and it's like one big storm and that

760
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 2: goes into the postseason. If we look at Kobe right,

761
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 2: he is a free agent after the season. He's threatening

762
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 2: an opt out. He says if I leave. It's going

763
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 2: to be because of Shaq. Shaq wants his extension, Phil

764
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 2: wants his extension. So here we are on the postseason.

765
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 2: Karmelone comes back. At the end of the regular season,

766
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: they finished seventeen and five, and what people are saying

767
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 2: is that we have no idea what's going to happen.

768
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 2: They can win the title or they could get bounced

769
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 2: in the first or second round. They beat Houston the

770
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 2: first round, tough squad with Steve Francis and Yao Ming,

771
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 2: and then we go into this Spur series and they

772
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 2: go down to zero.

773
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 3: Shaq's stepdad is.

774
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: Calling out Kobe in the in the media now, he's saying,

775
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: you know, Kobe would be one of the best players

776
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 2: in the world if he learned how to play team basketball.

777
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 2: People are writing that the buzzards are circling over the

778
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 2: Staples Center. But then the Lakers down two to zero,

779
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 2: tied up to two in Game five. Is the Derek

780
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 2: Fisher point four shot, And I think that kind of

781
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 2: saves People talk today that this season was a failure,

782
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 2: but realistically, they won fifty six games and they made

783
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 2: it to the finals. Maybe in Lakers standards and Shack

784
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 2: and Kobe standards, that's a failure, but it's for most

785
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 2: other franchises. Get into the finals is a successful year.

786
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,719
Speaker 2: Derek Fisher shot happens, they win Game five, they win

787
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: Game six, they go to Mini and they win that series.

788
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 2: And now we're in the finals and it's the Lakers

789
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 2: versus the Pistons, one of my favorite series ever. The

790
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 2: betting lines on this are like eight to one Laker favorites.

791
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 2: You guys, remember, like anybody giving the Pistons a shot

792
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: or is it Lakers gonna Walton because they got out

793
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 2: of the West that year, they beat the Spurs, they beat.

794
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 3: KG the m v P.

795
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: And now it's like, Okay, who the fuck's on the Pistons, right,

796
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 2: Ben Wallace Chounson Phillips like, like, what what are people

797
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 2: saying them in LA?

798
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 4: I mean, we didn't, we didn't. We didn't give a

799
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 4: fuck about the Pistons. And no disrespect. I'm a big

800
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 4: Tayshaw prince Man hot you know, you know, Kentucky guy,

801
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 4: but you know guys that you respect and kind of

802
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 4: watching how they moved through the Eastern Conference. But at

803
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 4: this point, you know, we're not thinking that anybody is

804
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 4: gonna beat the Lakers, like they're not gonna beat shaking Kobe.

805
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: That's just not realistic. That's just far from the east.

806
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: But you look at their dampaon this ship.

807
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 4: That really trips me out, just you know, you know,

808
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 4: going back down memory lane is you know, Pistons were

809
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 4: holding teams under like eighty points a game and where and.

810
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: It's just like holy, like damn, like.

811
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,719
Speaker 4: You tell me why were shaking Kobe ain't putting up

812
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 4: numbers like you know, but that was the way the

813
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 4: game was played. And I think we've seen a shift

814
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 4: and uh less focus on you know, running running down

815
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 4: the shot clock and getting a great play and just

816
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 4: kind of moving and I know I got it Jilani,

817
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 4: you know, with a flourish in the league like today,

818
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 4: just because fucking that's what his game was predicated on.

819
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 4: All this like slow tempo bullshit and defensive grinders, like

820
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 4: let's get some buckets, I get the rebound. Let me

821
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 4: be like, hey, do he pull the rock out and

822
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 4: fucking run the break? And shit, should I see you

823
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 4: doing ucla back of your head, Dre, You know what

824
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 4: I mean. But it's tough looking at those squads, thinking

825
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 4: like damn, seventy eighty points. And some people love that

826
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 4: generation of who because they're like basketball peerists and defense whatever.

827
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 4: My thing is always I never seen a game one

828
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 4: zero zero, so defense is cool, but I need to

829
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 4: see fucking buckets. The game was designed to put the

830
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 4: ball in the hole. Like, I want to see some

831
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 4: defensive times. But if I can see a guy drop

832
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,479
Speaker 4: thirty forty or Cobe dropped fifty sixty points, I'm gonna

833
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 4: be excited about that shit.

834
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: Man, man, man, you hit it right on the head.

835
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 5: I think, yeah, we was in LA and it's Laker

836
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 5: fans that if it wasn't, we didn't see Thomas Dumars

837
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 5: Lambard Sally on the back of a pistol jersey. I

838
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 5: don't think nobody was really tripping at the end of

839
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 5: the day. And I think that Detroit team took those

840
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 5: old bad boys vibes and channeled that shit up. You

841
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 5: know what I mean, to be this team that'll win

842
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 5: eighty to seventy nine. You know what I mean, because

843
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 5: they knew that it would piss the Laker fan base off.

844
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 5: They knew if pissed Phil Jackson off, you know what

845
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 5: I mean, Karl Malone, once you start having those names

846
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 5: and those names don't start translating into the box score

847
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 5: when you're looking at Jay Shawn Princess and you're looking

848
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 5: at the Chauncey Phillips and the Rip Hamilton's and the

849
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 5: ben have Ben Wallace playing one on one versus Shock,

850
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, and.

851
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: Those type of things.

852
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 5: I think the Pistons did a good job of channels,

853
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 5: of channeling their old vibes. But yeah, to Joe Sign's point,

854
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 5: nobody was thinking. We was thinking sweet, yeah, love key,

855
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. We didne knocked off all

856
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 5: the best. You know, KG had the year that he had.

857
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 5: If Derrick Fisher is hitting that point for a shot

858
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 5: like that, that seemed like to the NBA finals, you know,

859
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 5: just to get to the finals. So the Pistons just

860
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 5: I thought, who would have got one just on the strength.

861
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 1: But it wasn't nobody thinking.

862
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 2: Taking The reason why I love that Pistons seems so

863
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 2: much is that pretty much all the best five alive.

864
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 2: This was not their like first stop. They had been

865
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 2: recycled through teams like Chauncey Phillips was on the Celtics,

866
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 2: the Raptors, you had Wallace, Yeah, Timberwolves, Ben Wallace was

867
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 2: on the Magic Sheed was on the Blazers, So this

868
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: was a lot of them like their second stop. And

869
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 2: then on the other side the Lakers, like they're all

870
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 2: the Golden children, right Shaq Kobe Malone, So I love

871
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 2: that series, and that is sort of the the straw

872
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 2: that ended up breaking the camel's back. The aftermath of that,

873
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 2: the Lakers, it's it's it's you think that they're gonna

874
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 2: sweep the Pistons, but it's almost the other way around.

875
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: It's an embarrassing loss. They lose in five, and it's

876
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 2: it's not really close. The aftermath of that, Shack skips

877
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 2: his exit interview. Kobe says, you know, I'm gonna go

878
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 2: test that free agency. There's links to the Grizzlies, there's

879
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 2: links to the Clippers. Phil says, you know, basically, f

880
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 2: all this, I'm done.

881
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 3: I'm taking a hiatus.

882
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 2: Uh So with the past, like four or five years,

883
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 2: you had three championships and now every main pillar of

884
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 2: that team is gone or it looks like they all

885
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: could be gone. What's the vibe in La like after that?

886
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 2: When now Shack, you know, the man that brought them

887
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 2: the titles is gone. Phil's gone.

888
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 3: How is La then?

889
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: Sad?

890
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 4: I mean, just to be real, you go from that

891
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 4: that championship lore and from outside looking and you kind

892
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 4: of hope, like and I'm just gonna be real. My

893
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 4: dad played for the Clippers growing up, so I was

894
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 4: kind of and Clipper to him at that point, but

895
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 4: always had him, you know, we always looked up and

896
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,240
Speaker 4: hear me what the Lakers had going on.

897
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: So for Kobe to say he's coming with the Clippers,

898
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 1: even as Clippers.

899
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 4: Fans, you're like, what, like like damn, Like he just

900
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 4: really want to be out if he's saying come here,

901
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 4: like there's so many other better spots that you can go.

902
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: So I know, the Sons, I think we're in the

903
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: mix too at a point.

904
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 4: But it's sad because you look back now and I'm

905
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 4: sure those guys probably regret it too, and it reaches

906
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 4: that boiling point into early in the locker room where

907
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 4: you feel like I just can't play with any of

908
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 4: these guys more than I hated here.

909
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: But then you experienced that other side.

910
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 4: I mean, the Shack obviously won a championship quicker than

911
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 4: Kobe did before Cope went back to back to the Lakers,

912
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 4: but now that that experience you had where you know,

913
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 4: the Lakers struggle for the next couple of seasons after

914
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 4: that where it was quote unquote really kind of Kobe's team,

915
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 4: of Kobe's times shine. You know, they either didn't make

916
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 4: the playoffs for like eight seeds and just just now

917
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 4: like moral victories, like you know what I mean, Like

918
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 4: you know, we're competing against the Suns like or whatever.

919
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: It's it's a sad times for LA that demands championships.

920
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 4: And this is the one thing, especially with the Lakers,

921
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 4: I'm sure Boston fans feel the same when you when

922
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 4: you pull these squads out, you expect banners like like

923
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 4: you mentioned, like any other squad going to the finals,

924
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 4: second second in the West.

925
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: You know, fifty six twenty six, that's great.

926
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're gonna be talking about that's not a forgotten season.

927
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 4: We're talking about that shit all the time, day fifty

928
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 4: six games.

929
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: Man.

930
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,839
Speaker 4: But for this squad, it's just like ill, this is LA,

931
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 4: Like Jack Nicholas is not rolling with that.

932
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 1: That's not what are we talking about here, but just sad,

933
00:38:59,040 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: a sad period.

934
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 4: Obviously losing field too, and just knowing kind of everything

935
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 4: that reached his boiling point and reached the head. And then,

936
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:09,439
Speaker 4: like I said, Shaq came back that Christmas, and Shaq

937
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 4: was more visible Christmas, you know, coming through, giving gifts,

938
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 4: doing whatever. Just that kind of feel that he brought back,

939
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 4: and you kind of miss it. And obviously Shaq and

940
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 4: Kobe you were able to reconcile and work their differences out.

941
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,439
Speaker 4: But it's just somebody who loves basketball and loves Los

942
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 4: Angeles deep down, you hope, like, man, what if they

943
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 4: could just kept that together a couple more years, you

944
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 4: know what I mean? They could have won those championships

945
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 4: that Kobe brought for like four or five years later,

946
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:33,959
Speaker 4: they could have won a couple more Maybe Shaq would

947
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 4: have got a shit together, been a little salty at

948
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 4: how you know. You know, nobody wants to get four

949
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 4: to one in the finals by the fucking Pistons, a

950
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 4: team that didn't have a superstar at that point. So

951
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 4: you think I'll come back rejuvenated. I might actually show

952
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 4: up the training camp in.

953
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: Shape and be her. Or it could go the other way,

954
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: like I fucked this.

955
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 4: I'm gonna put on thirty pounds and I don't give

956
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 4: a shit, So you know, whatever, happened.

957
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 1: Happened. Obviously, we can't build a time machine and go back,

958
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: but it was.

959
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 4: It was a sad point in LA for those next

960
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 4: couple of years, just as you know, the squad trying

961
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 4: to figure things out.

962
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, to your point, winning is hard, Dylan,

963
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 5: You know what I mean, It's hard on everybody. Once

964
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 5: you start winning championship and to talk to a championship

965
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 5: and bus. You know, that's macro economics for everybody. The

966
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 5: franchise gets more money, the jersey sales go up. The

967
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 5: guy at the end of the bench deal gets a

968
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 5: little sweeter because you know he's you know, he's playing

969
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 5: key minutes on the championship team. You know, his tip

970
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 5: twelve to fifteen minutes a game were a little bit different,

971
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. So he has an opportunity

972
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 5: to run a bag up on another team or re

973
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 5: signed on a championship team. Plus the time spent together

974
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 5: during those runs playing deep into the playoffs, you know

975
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 5: what I mean. The locker room is a fish bowl,

976
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. Everybody knows whose contract situation,

977
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 5: who's boo at home is tripping, you know what I mean,

978
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 5: who's you know what I mean, running around our town

979
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 5: in the streets. Some of us might be fighting over

980
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 5: the same check, you know what I mean, and don't

981
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 5: even know. It's just a hard season, and when you're

982
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 5: playing with it with the sticks so high, everything is

983
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 5: so much harder. Everybody thinks like it's easy to play

984
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 5: with superstars, with Karl Malone and Gary Payton and Shaq

985
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 5: and Phil Jackson, and then you mix that and put

986
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 5: it in the middle of the Staples Center. It's hard,

987
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. It's a lot of people

988
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 5: that you know, never get off that bench. It was

989
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 5: hard for me to crack the lineup when I was

990
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 5: with the Lakers the year to three beat and Nah

991
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 5: has started, you know what I mean, coming off of

992
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 5: starting from the Seattle SuperSonics and handling the Lakers one

993
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 5: of their worst home losses in Laker history. And I

994
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,399
Speaker 5: was over there, like you said, over in the Walkers suit,

995
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, just trying to crack minutes,

996
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 5: hoping somebody will go down for a couple of games

997
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 5: so I could play three to you know, five ten

998
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 5: minutes for a three four game stretch. But everything is

999
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 5: so hard to self magnified in LA because everybody cares

1000
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 5: so much, and you know it's titled the Bus, So

1001
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 5: I mean, I think the ramifications of having superstars and

1002
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 5: you know, Kobe translating from Ocho into you know, into

1003
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 5: twenty four. It was just you know, I mean, it's

1004
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:04,240
Speaker 5: probably one of the greatest stories ever told the Lakers

1005
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 5: franchise and all the years that you know what I mean,

1006
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 5: Chasing championships is always going to go down as a

1007
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 5: thirty for thirty book Forgotten Seasons, you know what I mean.

1008
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 5: You can go down the line and probably pick you know,

1009
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 5: a number of Lakers seasons and absolutely some interesting content

1010
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 5: for sure.

1011
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 3: Well, I know we got to go.

1012
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 2: But again I think I I look back at what

1013
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 2: Matt Barnes said, he said about his time in like

1014
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 2: La and Orlando, you don't realize how good you have

1015
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 2: it until it's gone. And I think to what Josiah said,

1016
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 2: like you get so used to these championships and then

1017
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 2: it's gone.

1018
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 3: I mean, there's turmoil.

1019
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 2: It's obviously not easy, but all those things make it

1020
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,439
Speaker 2: worth it when you when you come out on top.

1021
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 2: So anyway, thank you guys for joining. This was a

1022
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 2: lot of fun. We'll catch Jilani all over show basketball.

1023
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 2: He's got his fingerprints anywhere, Josiah.

1024
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 3: Anything you want to plug.

1025
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 4: I mean I'm plugged out. Everybody knows where to find

1026
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 4: me fo on Twitter and Instagram. I'm hoping to do

1027
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 4: some more things the Showtime Basketball family as well. It's

1028
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 4: a great family to be a part of. And you know,

1029
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,439
Speaker 4: I kind of stumbled on your page. I think Eric Newman,

1030
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 4: who produces all the Smoke and with Burning, sent me

1031
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 4: your souf.

1032
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is fucking no. I'm gonna work man.

1033
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: So it's a pleasures jumping on with you.

1034
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, telling this has been a pleasure, man, appreciate it.

1035
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 5: You're doing a good job, young fella. Keep it up,

1036
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, this guy's the limit. Like

1037
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 5: you said Forgotten Seasons page, it's amazing. I know a

1038
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 5: lot working and talking with the guys and some of

1039
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 5: the four performer players that you've had on.

1040
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 6: They've really appreciated the time and the research that you

1041
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 6: put in.

1042
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 5: And I look forward to build and cross you against

1043
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 5: all you know across all our platforms.

1044
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 2: Bro, no doubt hearing that from you guys is what

1045
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,359
Speaker 2: makes it all worth it. So I'm looking forward to

1046
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 2: what we got in store and again thanks for hopping

1047
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 2: on guys, thanks for listening, everybody. This is your host

1048
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 2: Still and Dreyfus. We got a fresh episode coming for

1049
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 2: you next week. A reminder to rate and review the

1050
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 2: pot If you are enjoying it, we appreciate it. Thank

1051
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 2: you for listening again, catch you next week, See you then,