Speaker 1: On this episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly, when Troy Aikman
Speaker 1: left for ESPN, it's set off a chain reaction in
Speaker 1: the NFL broadcast booth from multiple networks. SI Media reporter
Speaker 1: Jimmy Traina breaks down the game of musical chairs involving
Speaker 1: Al Michael's Joe back and more. And later, w NBA
Speaker 1: star Brittney Griner has been detained in Russia for months.
Speaker 1: We have a report on her situation and how it's
Speaker 1: impacted the way women's basketball operates. But first, the NFL
Speaker 1: Draft is upon us ESPNS. Mina Kimes joins me for
Speaker 1: a primer on the big event happening this week in
Speaker 1: Las Vegas. It's April. I'm your host, John Gonzalez from
Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. This is Sports Illustrated Weekly.
Speaker 1: You can catch her on ESPN talking about all things NFL,
Speaker 1: and you can listen to her on the Mina Time
Speaker 1: Show featuring Lenny. Mina Kimes. Welcome to Sports Illustrated Weekly.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having me. I want to discuss
Speaker 1: the upcoming draft with you and some other football topics.
Speaker 1: Before we do that, though, I want to play the
Speaker 1: part of your manager when the super Bowl was here
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. It was very hot that week and
Speaker 1: you were on TV a lot and you happened to
Speaker 1: be out in the sun with no shade. And I
Speaker 1: mentioned this because the Draft is in Las Vegas, also
Speaker 1: famously hot and sunny, and I'm hoping that you have
Speaker 1: since demanded shade for this upcoming appearance. I have not,
Speaker 1: but I've had more time to think through what I'm
Speaker 1: wearing because the Super Draft, nobody really thought it was
Speaker 1: gonna be that. You know, we live in l A.
Speaker 1: It's not usually that hot. We were taking an annahem
Speaker 1: which is hotter than l A. But um my first outfit,
Speaker 1: this is really sports talk guys, was a leather dress.
Speaker 1: So basically I was like, you could fry an egg
Speaker 1: on me. And then that day so I'm better. I'm
Speaker 1: ventilated heading into Vegas. We do tape in the middle
Speaker 1: of the day, which is not great and we are outside,
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna do my best to cool myself. I
Speaker 1: am hopeful for you that it will go better this
Speaker 1: time around. The other like draft related show performance question
Speaker 1: that I had for you is are they still having
Speaker 1: the actual draft? Like in the middle of the Blagio
Speaker 1: Fountain with the boats. Is that happening. I haven't heard
Speaker 1: what the plan is. I I that was of course
Speaker 1: the plan in the early pandemic draft, right, and then
Speaker 1: they had to nix it and everything was digital, So
Speaker 1: I imagine they might go in that direction. Your wife
Speaker 1: would probably know better than me, John, if you want
Speaker 1: to just call her to the other room, being that
Speaker 1: she works in the network, I could like not to.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm not trying to turn this on you,
Speaker 1: but you're like my favorite wife guy on Twitter. I
Speaker 1: just want to throw that out. I appreciate that. I'll
Speaker 1: take that as a compliment. I'm a big fan of her.
Speaker 1: She's very talented. It's although I have said this before.
Speaker 1: I think I said it to Katie Nolan when she
Speaker 1: was on It's tough when you're not even the most
Speaker 1: talented media member in your own house. That's how I
Speaker 1: feel with Lenny. He's very talented. We love Lenny. All right,
Speaker 1: let's talk about the actual draft. Talk to me like,
Speaker 1: I have not paid any attention in the runup here. Hypothetically,
Speaker 1: it feels to me from the outside that there's not
Speaker 1: a lot of consensus about where people are going at
Speaker 1: the top of the draft seems kind of wide open, yes,
Speaker 1: And I think that's why it's really exciting draft, because
Speaker 1: you know, in recent years have kind of gone chalk.
Speaker 1: There's been a few surprises with the quarterbacks being like
Speaker 1: the last year, everybody knew it was going to be
Speaker 1: Treport Lawrence and Zach Wilson right before the draft. Nobody
Speaker 1: really knows what the first five picks are gonna look like.
Speaker 1: When you look at mock drafts from various experts, they're
Speaker 1: all over the place, which I think is really exciting
Speaker 1: because for a while it seemed like Aidan Hutchinson, who's
Speaker 1: the addresser out of Michigan, was a clear number one
Speaker 1: pick for Jackson Bill steps what the second second? But
Speaker 1: then suddenly you have players like or just Travon Walker
Speaker 1: climbing up the board. Uh their speculation, maybe they'll take
Speaker 1: a tackle. And there's a lot of questions about the
Speaker 1: quarterback position, which has been much maligned this year. It's
Speaker 1: been characterized as one of the weakest classes in a while.
Speaker 1: But frankly, because NFL teams are so desperate for quarterbacks,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. Some of them will go a lot
Speaker 1: earlier than people think. And I think that's really makes
Speaker 1: this all very interesting. Yeah, twas ever, thus on quarterbacks
Speaker 1: being overdrafted, and I want to get into that quarterback
Speaker 1: class in just a second. But but let's start with
Speaker 1: the first thing, the first pick, Mina Kimes general manager,
Speaker 1: who would you take? I would probably go with Aidan Hutchinson.
Speaker 1: I've actually oscillated between him and Evan Neil. I think
Speaker 1: Jacksonville they've made some a lot of additions the free agency,
Speaker 1: a lot of frankly ill advised additions the free agency.
Speaker 1: Their general managers Trent Boky's kind of like all over
Speaker 1: the place, a little bit unpredictable, you know, as much
Speaker 1: as Ed Rusher is somewhat of a need for them,
Speaker 1: they have drafted. Ed Drush is pretty high in recent years.
Speaker 1: Like Josh Allen, the other Josh Allen, I just think,
Speaker 1: I look at this offensive line. I think, if you're
Speaker 1: the goal is to optimize the surroundings around Trevor Lawrence,
Speaker 1: who's the future of the franchise. They did franchise tag
Speaker 1: a left tackle, can't Robinson, but I still think they
Speaker 1: could bring in Evan Neil, who could play both left
Speaker 1: and right, and he can also be like a cornerstone
Speaker 1: at the offense. I started that saying Eddie Hutchinson, and
Speaker 1: then I pivoted halfway through my answer. I was like,
Speaker 1: gonna sell you on Aidan Hutchinson, and then I completely
Speaker 1: pivoted and sorry about that. Draft is the quarterback class,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, not a lot of hype around this group,
Speaker 1: and yet per usual, probably some of them will be overdrafted.
Speaker 1: Who do you like among this? Maybe not illustrious quarterback class.
Speaker 1: So Mike QB one and this does appear to be
Speaker 1: the consensus, although where he's taken I think it's going
Speaker 1: to be a bit of a mystery. Is Malik Willis
Speaker 1: out of Liberty University? Wells squore back, draw, navigated, tackle,
Speaker 1: wells touchdown in a class where there's no super high
Speaker 1: floor talent. I think there's some quarterbacks with reasonable floors,
Speaker 1: notably Desmond Ridder, who I can talk about next, is
Speaker 1: a quarterback I like a lot. Can you Pickett as well?
Speaker 1: Malik Willis is the one guy who has the ceiling
Speaker 1: of a superstar. He also has a very questionable floor.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of knocks on him, takes too many sacks,
Speaker 1: ran a pretty simple offense at Liberty questions about where
Speaker 1: he is in terms of being able to translate his
Speaker 1: skills to the NFL. But just from a tools perspective,
Speaker 1: the ball just explodes out of his hand. He's the
Speaker 1: best deep ball in the class. And then he's an
Speaker 1: incredible rusher. And I think the success of Josh Allen
Speaker 1: and the Justin Herbert's of the world, and then watching
Speaker 1: that Josh Allen Patrick Mahomes game has made teams more
Speaker 1: likely or more willing rather to bet on the potential
Speaker 1: home run even if it's a huge drikeout. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean that. And that's good company too, because both of
Speaker 1: those guys that you mentioned in Alan and Herbert had
Speaker 1: some questions coming out and now you know, people roll
Speaker 1: the dice and it worked out for them. Somebody who
Speaker 1: did not mention in that quarterback class, Matt Corral, the
Speaker 1: old mess quarterback. I had to check on the pronunciation
Speaker 1: of his last name. By the way, I wasn't sure
Speaker 1: if it was Coral like the reef or coral like
Speaker 1: the Okay Corals. Shouts to Connor Or and Greg Rosenthal
Speaker 1: for helping me out with that. But I saw his
Speaker 1: ball game Mina, and he played and he ended up
Speaker 1: hurting his right ankle. Corral is struggling to get to
Speaker 1: his feet. He is in pain. And you know, this
Speaker 1: time of the year, and even with these tradition rich games,
Speaker 1: how many big time NFL draft prospects have opted out.
Speaker 1: That was not the case. Matt Correll told Katie said,
Speaker 1: I don't even think about opting out. I wanted this,
Speaker 1: And that's kind of a semi new trend where some
Speaker 1: expected high picks set out their bowl games and they
Speaker 1: want to avoid getting injured because it's a business decision,
Speaker 1: which I understand. But he ended up playing, and I'm
Speaker 1: wondering what you made of him playing and then how
Speaker 1: his status has been impacted as a result. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I kind of hated the discourse around it at the
Speaker 1: time because either he was being upheld as an example
Speaker 1: of toughness and teamwork and this is why guys should
Speaker 1: play or you know, should play despite the potential of injury,
Speaker 1: and then when he got hurt, he was held up
Speaker 1: as this is why they shouldn't play, and they should.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like, dude, he wanted to play, you
Speaker 1: want to play, whatever, but it's undeniable that his injury.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it hurt his draft doc dramatically, but
Speaker 1: it reminded people that you know, he does have some
Speaker 1: injuries in his past, and he also has a pretty
Speaker 1: like I wouldn't say reckless, but very courageous style of play.
Speaker 1: You know he's going he like leans into contact. The
Speaker 1: problem is he's very slight, unlike Malik willis So I
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, he's like built like a mack truck though
Speaker 1: he's only six one, and I think that has some
Speaker 1: teams concerned. Again, when you think about the transition to
Speaker 1: the NFL, you don't want a guide that's small, taking
Speaker 1: unnecessary hits the way Corral does. Where do you think
Speaker 1: he goes out of curiosity? Man? I would have said
Speaker 1: second round, but again, like often, what you'll see is
Speaker 1: like a team trading into the first round, right so
Speaker 1: they can get a quarterback and have the option to
Speaker 1: pick up the fifth year option on him. It wouldn't
Speaker 1: be my choice, frankly. You know. The other thing about him,
Speaker 1: other than the kind of scrappiness I think scrappy is
Speaker 1: probably a better word than reckless, is he ran extremely
Speaker 1: extremely college offense, very RPO centric, and that makes it
Speaker 1: hard to project whether he can run an NFL offense.
Speaker 1: What is processing like because it was pretty one read.
Speaker 1: It feels like you're not extremely high on him. Totally fine,
Speaker 1: I'm wondering who you are. I want to go back
Speaker 1: to the first round because if he's going to be
Speaker 1: outside of the first round, I'm wondering who you are
Speaker 1: high on in the first round, aside from some of
Speaker 1: the other people that we talked about, maybe even some
Speaker 1: guys that you're higher on than other people might be.
Speaker 1: Non quarterback division, yeah, non quarterback division, the entire Georgia defense,
Speaker 1: just meetings around It's insane. I mean, honestly, it's so
Speaker 1: fortunate that they want the National championship because if not,
Speaker 1: I think we would be watching these guys at the
Speaker 1: Calm bye and then watching their tape and their pro
Speaker 1: days and think, Man Kirby sets in Bennett the quarterback,
Speaker 1: like you really left up, but they didn't. They want,
Speaker 1: which is great, and it's just like like it's an
Speaker 1: all star team. It's crazy. You'll you'll watch one guy's
Speaker 1: tape intending to focus on I don't know, Davonte Wyatt
Speaker 1: is a defensive tackle, and then you'll just get so
Speaker 1: distracted by the linebackers, some of which who aren't even
Speaker 1: for this year's draft. UM, I love a lot of them.
Speaker 1: I would say my biggest crush out of that group
Speaker 1: is Jordan Davis, who I'm sure you've heard about, um,
Speaker 1: who is gotten off his weight in front of me,
Speaker 1: built like a sub zero refrigerator, but moves like a cat.
Speaker 1: He put on one of the best performances at the combine,
Speaker 1: just like the forty broad jump. All of it just
Speaker 1: blew everyone out of the water. And then when you
Speaker 1: watch this tape you see it. I think he's a
Speaker 1: really interesting draft projection though, because he is, you know,
Speaker 1: a nose tackle and his snap count was limited Georgia.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of one of those things where super
Speaker 1: dominant players, super dominant athlete, But do we want to
Speaker 1: draft someone who's maybe not on the field that much
Speaker 1: in the top fifteen. I think that's a question teams
Speaker 1: will be asking. This is why you're one of the
Speaker 1: best in the business because we get really a vocative
Speaker 1: imagery like sub zero refrigerator and moves like a cat.
Speaker 1: Excellent descriptors. So you're high on basically all of the
Speaker 1: Georgia defense. Who do we think might fall because one
Speaker 1: of my I know it's probably not great for them,
Speaker 1: but one of the great things about the draft from
Speaker 1: a distance is the last guy in the draft room,
Speaker 1: in the green room, where they're just waiting to be called,
Speaker 1: but we think might end up falling and having that
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers moment. I think it could be one of
Speaker 1: the quarterbacks. Frankly, where you're watching him. I remember shooting
Speaker 1: two thousand and eighteen, just the camera kept cutting to
Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson and his mom, and my heart was just breaking.
Speaker 1: And he was a prospect I loved. I wrote about him,
Speaker 1: went to his pro day Louisville, and then it was
Speaker 1: Ozzie Newsome's last draft with Baltimore, and then they made
Speaker 1: the pick. There after they took a tight end by
Speaker 1: ways no longer in a team, and I just first
Speaker 1: with happiness, because the thing about following is you might
Speaker 1: end up in a better situation, which Lamar Jackson did.
Speaker 1: He ended up with the perfect team, a team that
Speaker 1: was willing to actually design an offense around a skill
Speaker 1: set and you know, appreciated what he's capable of. He
Speaker 1: could have ended up with a crappy team, and so
Speaker 1: I think sometimes falling is not so bad. I would
Speaker 1: say more near the top of the draft. The two
Speaker 1: prospects that everyone are watching. Everyone's watching to see if
Speaker 1: they fall out of the top five ten our Cavon
Speaker 1: Thibodeau addresser out of Oregon, and then Derek Stingley Jr.
Speaker 1: Out of l s U, both of whom I think
Speaker 1: we're really really hyped early in their college careers. And
Speaker 1: then you know, I saw some production dip. I think
Speaker 1: with Stingley the concerns are mostly about the injury injuries
Speaker 1: in college, but I think he's just a future all
Speaker 1: pro talent if he stays healthy. And then with Thibodeau,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure you'll you're used to seeing this year
Speaker 1: after year, it's the murky like he's quirky, he plays,
Speaker 1: he sells, crypto like, there's all these murky like the
Speaker 1: teams like him, and you know, usually that's just bullshit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: those like really nebulous ways of evaluating players that pop up,
Speaker 1: I've never really understood, but you're right. I mean, maybe
Speaker 1: as some of these guys fall, they fall to situations
Speaker 1: that could potentially benefit them, you know, fingers crossed for
Speaker 1: all of them. I wanted to ask you about some
Speaker 1: non draft situations. Deebo Samuel recently asked for a trade,
Speaker 1: and I'm wondering what, Yeah, you're shaking your head. I
Speaker 1: want to know what you think is happening there, dude,
Speaker 1: I have no clue. I've been actually asking people all
Speaker 1: learning what they think. People in and around the organization,
Speaker 1: you know, just like everybody's pretty puzzled because Deebo Samuel
Speaker 1: hasn't given a reason, right and so my immediate reaction was, Oh,
Speaker 1: this is just negotiations. He's just trying to get from
Speaker 1: like I don't know whatever, twenty two to twenty six
Speaker 1: million or whatever. But it seems like that's not it,
Speaker 1: which blows my mind because you know, if he just
Speaker 1: wants to leave San Francisco for maybe these reasons, it's
Speaker 1: one one of the better NFL cities to live in.
Speaker 1: But he's got a brilliant offensive coach who has I
Speaker 1: think maximized his abilities. It's a great place to be.
Speaker 1: By all accounts, they do want to pay him. And
Speaker 1: then my question is, Okay, well, if he doesn't want
Speaker 1: to be there, if he just waits another year, like
Speaker 1: he can actually get past a tag to free agency
Speaker 1: and make all of the money potentially, So I don't know.
Speaker 1: This one's pretty confusing to me, frankly, and um, I'm
Speaker 1: very curious to see how it plays out. I am
Speaker 1: also curious to see how it plays out. And I've
Speaker 1: got my fingers crossed. I'm I'm thinking hypothetically here that
Speaker 1: maybe a team with a surplus of draft picks and
Speaker 1: need of a wide receiver, perhaps East Coast based with
Speaker 1: a bird theme wearing midnight Green. I don't know, I'm
Speaker 1: just like throwing out a bunch of criteria. Maybe it
Speaker 1: could work out for him. I'm sure they're on the phone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would like that. Two more for you, non draft related.
Speaker 1: What have you made of the commander's financial fraud situation?
Speaker 1: Because every time something happens with the Washington football team,
Speaker 1: which by the way, they should have kept that as
Speaker 1: their name, Uh, it's never good, it's always bad. And
Speaker 1: this has yet another example. It's kind of one of
Speaker 1: those things where and this is true of a lot
Speaker 1: of things happening in society right now. Not to expand it,
Speaker 1: were like Dan Snyder, the owner, has had so many
Speaker 1: scandals that you stop believing anything can take him out.
Speaker 1: And I think I tweeted this like when the first
Speaker 1: story from I think it originated with Front Office Sports
Speaker 1: was the first report before it kind of became public.
Speaker 1: I was like, in a way, it's kind of depressing
Speaker 1: that he's more likely to be removed as an owner,
Speaker 1: which is something I firmly believe should have happened years ago,
Speaker 1: because he held money. He's being accused rather of keeping
Speaker 1: not a ton of money, but some money from the
Speaker 1: owners as opposed to the rampant sexual misconduct in the organization,
Speaker 1: including allegations levied against him specifically. I think that's also
Speaker 1: a pretty good mirror for society. Yeah. I mean it's
Speaker 1: a damning indictment, not just of that organization but of
Speaker 1: the NFL. Right that he has been accused of running
Speaker 1: this predatory workplace environment and being complicit in that, and
Speaker 1: that this one thing about holding back some money might
Speaker 1: be his undoing, although I still would bet on it
Speaker 1: not happening. Yeah. I agree. And it's kind of incredible
Speaker 1: that the investigation started because of the misconduct allegations and
Speaker 1: then one of the former employees was just like, hey,
Speaker 1: he also did this, and I figgured this new round
Speaker 1: of accusations. Um Man, I don't know what it like
Speaker 1: Jerry Richardson, also accused of sexual misconduct, ended up selling
Speaker 1: his team, but there's no indication that Snyder ever intends
Speaker 1: to and then also no indication that the other owners
Speaker 1: will push him out, although again, if this has actually
Speaker 1: proven it might be a final nail. Well, now that
Speaker 1: Congress is on it, I'm sure they'll get to the
Speaker 1: bottom of it, you know, and working bipartisan manner. Last
Speaker 1: one for you, the Browns are also being investigated. They're
Speaker 1: being investigated for tanking, which you know, everybody made the
Speaker 1: joke that like, why would the Browns have to intentionally
Speaker 1: tank when they've been doing it accidentally for the two
Speaker 1: plus decades um. What's going on in Cleveland. The tanking
Speaker 1: stuff is part of the sort of float out from
Speaker 1: the Brian Flores lawsuit, which is probably the most significant
Speaker 1: lawsuit brought against the NFL and a really long time,
Speaker 1: and continues to grow by the way as other coaches
Speaker 1: have come forward and other pieces of evidence. Something you
Speaker 1: had Mike Malarkey, the former head coach of the Titans,
Speaker 1: basically not basically actually admitting in a podcast interview that
Speaker 1: no one listened to at the time that you know,
Speaker 1: he witnessed a sham interview after he had already been
Speaker 1: given the job, and the times like that wasn't a
Speaker 1: shandon like your former head coach is admitting it? He
Speaker 1: had what is the I think you should leave? Oh
Speaker 1: my god? He admitted that's how I felt. That came out.
Speaker 1: Shout out to the ten people who understand that. But um, yeah,
Speaker 1: so the tanking stuff came from that. And of course
Speaker 1: there's also allegations from Flora's himself in Miami that the
Speaker 1: owner there, Stephen Ross, had offered that to him. I
Speaker 1: personally kind of doubt that either of those things will
Speaker 1: come to fruit. But you know, Cleveland right now is,
Speaker 1: for many reasons, just embroiled in controversy. So I don't
Speaker 1: know if this even rises to the really really highlighting
Speaker 1: the excellence of the NFL right now. I don't know
Speaker 1: if this really rises in people's estimation of like what
Speaker 1: are the most significantly the things going wrong there? I
Speaker 1: suppose yeah, really weird like sideways times for Cleveland. And
Speaker 1: I have a lot of Browns fans in my life,
Speaker 1: and especially because of the Deshaun Watson situation, a lot
Speaker 1: of them have tried to take their leave. But This
Speaker 1: was an excellent conversation. You know, we really enjoyed having
Speaker 1: you on. Watch her on ESPN, listen to her podcast
Speaker 1: featuring Lenny. If there was an NFL media draft, she'd
Speaker 1: be the first overall. Peck me at times. Thank you
Speaker 1: for this over Colleen one A. Well, you know what,
Speaker 1: we're going to leave this all in. We're go Is
Speaker 1: this because I called you a wife guy? Are you
Speaker 1: trying to pull back from your wife guy image right now?
Speaker 1: I embraced my wife guy image, although I think it
Speaker 1: just took a ding did wow? Thank you. After a break,
Speaker 1: we take a look at the big changes in the
Speaker 1: booth and the NFL broadcasting carousel. In Week four of
Speaker 1: the last NFL season, seven million people watched Sunday Night
Speaker 1: Football on NBC and Al Michaels was on the call.
Speaker 1: Oh Ey tonight on Gillette Stadium in Foxborough, Massachusetts. For
Speaker 1: twenty years, Tom Brady led the New England Patriots out
Speaker 1: of the home locker room. Tonight, Brady comes out of
Speaker 1: the visitors locker room and a coal house of sixties.
Speaker 1: I've actually had talked through the years with Tom Brady
Speaker 1: and Drew Brees, and they get towards the ends of
Speaker 1: their career, and in a way you know that the
Speaker 1: end is closer than the beginning or even the middle.
Speaker 1: I enjoy it. I'm exhilarated by it. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: really it's an intoxicating thing to do this thing and
Speaker 1: be on the number one show on TV. That's Al
Speaker 1: Michael's on the Sports Illustrated Media podcast hosted by our
Speaker 1: guest today, Jimmy Traina. He's a media reporter for Sports
Speaker 1: Illustrated and over the last few months, he's talked to
Speaker 1: most of the leading NFL broadcasters involved in this head
Speaker 1: spinning carousel of high dollar jobs. Jimmy Traina, Welcome to
Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated Weekly. Thank you for having me. The godfather
Speaker 1: legendary play by play man Al Michaels, who's been with
Speaker 1: NBC forever. He's the voice of Sunday Night Football, but
Speaker 1: next season he'll be with Amazon. Why did NBC let
Speaker 1: him walk? Basically, they've had Mike Tarico waiting in the
Speaker 1: wings for a few years. I think when NBC brought
Speaker 1: Tariko over from ESPN, they thought maybe Al would start
Speaker 1: to slip and his on air quality wouldn't be as good,
Speaker 1: But that never happened. So they ended up in this
Speaker 1: predicament where they had two top play by play guys,
Speaker 1: so they can let Al go in his kind track
Speaker 1: ran out, which is what happened, and bump up Tariko,
Speaker 1: who they had waiting in the wings to take over
Speaker 1: Sunday Night Football. So Amazon gets their man though in
Speaker 1: Al Michael's, and they bring Kirk herb Street over from
Speaker 1: ESPN to pair with Michael's in the booth. Amazon is
Speaker 1: obviously making a huge push here here's Al on your
Speaker 1: podcast from last November. Well, I think Amazon is spending
Speaker 1: as far as I know, about one point three billion
Speaker 1: a year to do Thursday. The NFL, I think, wants
Speaker 1: to see Amazon succeed at the very highest level because
Speaker 1: that made me the future of viewing sports streaming. So
Speaker 1: what do you make of Bezos and Amazon being the
Speaker 1: exclusive home for Thursday Night Football? Money? So what everything
Speaker 1: is about? Money? They shelled out the money for some
Speaker 1: reason that I still can't really get a great answer.
Speaker 1: On Fox never really made a ton of money on
Speaker 1: the Thursday Night package, I guess because it was so expensive.
Speaker 1: So Amazon has what's the phrase unlimited pockets, empty pockets,
Speaker 1: deep pockets. Something with their pockets yeah, where Bezos can
Speaker 1: do whatever he wants. He became a player for this package.
Speaker 1: The NFL took the money and we'll see what happens
Speaker 1: in terms of people finding the game. It's streaming only
Speaker 1: Thursday night. If the game involves your local team, it
Speaker 1: will still be on over the air TV. So if
Speaker 1: you're in Philly and the Eagles playing, you don't need Amazon.
Speaker 1: If you're in Chicago and the Bears a plane, you
Speaker 1: don't need. But if you're outside of those market, those
Speaker 1: local markets, then there is no other way to watch
Speaker 1: Thursday night football but Amazon Prime. So I get why
Speaker 1: Amazon did it. They're in the NFL game and these
Speaker 1: streaming services of trying to branch out and become big
Speaker 1: players in the sports world life sports still nothing brings
Speaker 1: ratings like it, and that's why they want to get
Speaker 1: involved in the NFL wanted cash. All these dominoes start
Speaker 1: falling in the off season. Really, it starts with Troy Aikman,
Speaker 1: who was at Fox forever and he left Fox and
Speaker 1: he jumps to ESPN Monday Night Football. As you mentioned,
Speaker 1: you had him on your pot and you asked him
Speaker 1: a great question, why did Fox let you go? And
Speaker 1: he had an answer that resonated with all of us.
Speaker 1: I guess what's perplexing to me is that I had
Speaker 1: no conversation with my boss until he called me to
Speaker 1: congratulate me on my contract with the ESPN. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I guess it's disappointing. I would have thought that there
Speaker 1: would have been a conversation at least, and then when
Speaker 1: I did talk with him, I when he called to
Speaker 1: congratulate me, I just asked for an explanation on some
Speaker 1: things that I didn't quite understand, and he opted not
Speaker 1: to do that as well. I guess that's where it's left.
Speaker 1: That's how I'll leave Fox, and and that's fine. I'm
Speaker 1: excited about ESPN and thrilled to be continuing to work
Speaker 1: with Joe. We've talked a lot and read a lot
Speaker 1: during the pandemic about the great resignation. Here's Troy Aikman,
Speaker 1: Hall of Famer, a long time broadcaster, and Fox basically
Speaker 1: just says, go ahead, you can leave what's going on
Speaker 1: behind the scenes. You're just plugged in. As anybody my guesses.
Speaker 1: Fox didn't want to participate in this trend of exorbitant
Speaker 1: NFL broadcasters salaries, and they looked at away here to
Speaker 1: cut down on some costs. Basically because Troy's contract was up.
Speaker 1: We know Tony Romo got massive money. Aikman wanted to
Speaker 1: be in that category and be up there with those guys.
Speaker 1: Is that what this is? Is is this sort of
Speaker 1: the Tony Romo effect that we're seeing here, It's actually
Speaker 1: the Payton Manning effect. I mean, yeah, this is what
Speaker 1: it was. ESPN couldn't get Payton Manning, so ESPN was
Speaker 1: going to make a play for Romo, and in order
Speaker 1: to keep Romo, CBS how to pay that huge monster contract.
Speaker 1: So Peyton Manning not going to ESPN is really what
Speaker 1: started this because then CBS overpaid for well not overpaid,
Speaker 1: but paid big for Romo, and then the dominoes fell
Speaker 1: as each person's contract was up, they wanted sort of
Speaker 1: to get in on that Romo stuff. I was surprised
Speaker 1: that Fox went this route and let Aikman go, but
Speaker 1: maybe we shouldn't have because towards the end of the
Speaker 1: season in the playoffs, he was doing the Eagles Bucks
Speaker 1: playoff game and he kind of hinted that he wasn't
Speaker 1: so thrilled about that that game coming up, which is
Speaker 1: on CBS, which is the Dallas Cowboys hosting the San
Speaker 1: Francisco forty Niners. It's gonna be a great game. I'm
Speaker 1: in a really good game. I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of people who like to be calling that game, but
Speaker 1: it should be a lot of fun. I loved that. Afterwards.
Speaker 1: I was like, you are a beauty. I can't believe
Speaker 1: you just said that on television, and I laughed. I
Speaker 1: was like, good, keep keep going whatever, let's have fun.
Speaker 1: Whatever the score was, it wasn't very close at the
Speaker 1: that's that's great. I I think I've said this on Twitter,
Speaker 1: but Troy seems to have entered the Lake zero given zone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's he's he's edged his way in there. You know
Speaker 1: me well enough to know that. I'm all. I'm all
Speaker 1: for that. Joe Buck has initially left behind. He's also
Speaker 1: been with Fox forever and he's not only the face
Speaker 1: of their football coverage but also their baseball coverage, and
Speaker 1: he also leaves and joins Aikman on Monday Night Football.
Speaker 1: Why did he want to make this jump? I mean,
Speaker 1: does he like working with Aikman that much? Yes? Um,
Speaker 1: both of those guys, Joe and Troy on my podcast,
Speaker 1: have talked about having a real friendship that goes beyond
Speaker 1: Sunday afternoons calling an NFL game. I also think and
Speaker 1: Joe alluded to this in my podcast. Joe has been
Speaker 1: doing this for Fox for twenty four twenty five years.
Speaker 1: He doesn't want to break in a new partner at
Speaker 1: this point in his career. He wants to keep what
Speaker 1: works and what's comfortable. It's been twenty years, and when
Speaker 1: you do these games, it are as intense as they are.
Speaker 1: And I know where he's going, and he knows where
Speaker 1: I'm going, and I know what he wants to talk about,
Speaker 1: and he knows when and what I want to talk about.
Speaker 1: That that's really hard to replicate. Joe was going to
Speaker 1: give up baseball after this year anyway. Oh interesting. So
Speaker 1: Joe's plan was to do the baseball this year for Fox.
Speaker 1: I think it would have been his twenty five World
Speaker 1: Series if I'm not mistaken. And then his plan was
Speaker 1: to give up the baseball and just do football. Only
Speaker 1: people should know he's not going to be doing baseball
Speaker 1: at ESPN. He's strictly doing Monday Night Football. And that's it.
Speaker 1: On the surface. Monday Night Football still a Prestige Night,
Speaker 1: and yet ESPN kind of stumbled into this fun product
Speaker 1: this past season with the Manning Cast. They got a
Speaker 1: great response for Payton and Eli. So you have the
Speaker 1: traditional product with Buck and Aikman, but it's going up
Speaker 1: against another ESPN property with the Manning Cast, and I'm
Speaker 1: wondering if that's compliment or competition compliment. Well, here's what
Speaker 1: people have to understand. I yet that everyone loved the
Speaker 1: Manning Cast. I loved it too. I thought it was great.
Speaker 1: You know, if you judge it just by social media reaction,
Speaker 1: you would think the Manning Cast was the greatest thing ever.
Speaker 1: And it was a smash success no matter how you
Speaker 1: spin it. But the main telecast on ESPN, which had
Speaker 1: Steve Levy, Brian Greasy and um Lewis Riddick on a
Speaker 1: week tweek basis, had twelve fourteen million viewers, the Manning
Speaker 1: Cast one point five one point six one point seven
Speaker 1: million viewers. People are still watching the traditional way more
Speaker 1: than the Manning Cast. The Manning Cast is is an alternative.
Speaker 1: It's an additive. It's not supposed to be instead of
Speaker 1: I don't think Joe and Troy are even thinking about
Speaker 1: the Mann and cast on any level because it's a
Speaker 1: fraction of what the total audience is. I'm curious to
Speaker 1: Jimmy what you think about Fox's move here, because you
Speaker 1: have CBS paying big money for Tony Romo and Amazon
Speaker 1: paying big money for Al Michael's and ESPN just owing
Speaker 1: a ton of money at Aikman and Buck and Fox
Speaker 1: is making a different bet. Fox is making a bet
Speaker 1: that hey, we're gonna just find different guys and pay
Speaker 1: them less money and everything's gonna be fine. Are they right?
Speaker 1: I think they're right. People are gonna watch the game
Speaker 1: no matter what if it's a good game, So I
Speaker 1: get where Fox is coming from. You also talked to
Speaker 1: Greg Gumble of CBS has been doing this for half
Speaker 1: a century, and he basically said that he doesn't think
Speaker 1: that the palace intrigue is a big deal at all. Right,
Speaker 1: I've never felt in my entire life that there is
Speaker 1: an announcer who can bring someone to the TV set
Speaker 1: to watch a game that that viewer wasn't already going
Speaker 1: to watch. And I believe that the only thing that
Speaker 1: a broadcaster can do is chase people away. I noticed
Speaker 1: for a fact because I will name them, but there
Speaker 1: are three or four announcers like, oh what really interested watching? Nope?
Speaker 1: I would I would love to know those names. But
Speaker 1: I I truly believe that I don't think. I don't
Speaker 1: think that that someone's tune in just to hear in
Speaker 1: particular person called a football game. And I appreciated that honestly,
Speaker 1: you know, I got into this with him a little.
Speaker 1: Is a sports thing going to put on a game
Speaker 1: strictly to hear an announcer? Probably not. And if there
Speaker 1: are any, yes, very small number. I do think the
Speaker 1: announcer can make someone stick with a game, maybe a
Speaker 1: little longer if they're not fully interested in the game.
Speaker 1: How many people I don't know, Probably not a ton.
Speaker 1: So it was very interesting to hear Greg say that.
Speaker 1: And like you said, fifty years in the business, he's
Speaker 1: done at Allso he carried some weight when he said that,
Speaker 1: which was interesting. Yeah, I think he probably has a point,
Speaker 1: and yet I am excited to see these people in
Speaker 1: new spots and to see how they equit themselves. You
Speaker 1: equit yourself while all the time. You can read him
Speaker 1: on SI dot com and listen to him on the
Speaker 1: SI Media podcast Jimmy Traina. Thanks for this anytime. Thanks
Speaker 1: for having me after a break our report on Britney
Speaker 1: Grinder's detention in Russia. As the diplomatic ties between the
Speaker 1: US and Russia crumble, a w n B A star
Speaker 1: is caught in the middle. W n B A star
Speaker 1: Brittany Grinder is being detained in Moscow with tensions ratched
Speaker 1: up between Russia and the US over the invasion of Ukraine.
Speaker 1: The six nine standout currently being held in Russia accused
Speaker 1: of trying to import hash oil. According to Russian state media,
Speaker 1: b G is one of these stars of stars in
Speaker 1: this league. If it had happen to her, it could
Speaker 1: happen to anybody, is the dwelling thought. That's Howard Megdal,
Speaker 1: a sportswriter who covers the w n B A. We
Speaker 1: spoke with him about why Brittany Grinder's attainment is so
Speaker 1: significant and the chilling effect it's had on her colleagues
Speaker 1: in the league, something that was recently discussed by w
Speaker 1: NBA Players Association President Nacca Lagumackay on Good Morning America.
Speaker 1: BG is us we are BG. You know that could
Speaker 1: have been us. Um. We're really most concerned about her
Speaker 1: health and safety, especially her mental health. Uh, We're hearing
Speaker 1: that she's in that respect, she's okay, but you know
Speaker 1: we want we won her home, alright, Howard, So, Britney
Speaker 1: Grinder is obviously one of the best and most famous
Speaker 1: basketball players in the world. But tell us a little
Speaker 1: bit more about her and specifically what she was doing
Speaker 1: in Russia. Well, Britney Grinder was playing overseas on one
Speaker 1: of the best teams in not just the Russian League,
Speaker 1: but the euro League as a whole, starring for each
Speaker 1: at as a center, the way she's done every year
Speaker 1: during the w NBA off season for a very long time.
Speaker 1: And that's not uncommon, right, I mean a lot of
Speaker 1: w NBA stars play abroad to supplement their income, right, yes,
Speaker 1: stars do, But throughout the league there's a very common
Speaker 1: thing to play resees. About half the league did it
Speaker 1: as of last year. There are some rules that are
Speaker 1: coming into place that are likely to change that independent
Speaker 1: of what's happening in Russia right now. But yes, there's
Speaker 1: a very common thing, especially for stars. Part of this
Speaker 1: playing abroad for w n b A players is because
Speaker 1: of the paid disparity, right, I mean, we know that
Speaker 1: in the NBA, players, whether you're a star or not
Speaker 1: are very well compensated, but that's not necessarily the case
Speaker 1: in the w n B A right very true now
Speaker 1: that disparity is smaller than it was because of a
Speaker 1: new collective barden In agreement signed in January that increased,
Speaker 1: for instance, the minimum salary from one to two d
Speaker 1: and fifteen thousand immediately. The lead also has these deals
Speaker 1: they're able to make with individual players that allow them
Speaker 1: to promote the lead to stay here and make well
Speaker 1: over half a million dollars. But as those familiar on
Speaker 1: the NBA side, no, that is hadet change compared to
Speaker 1: even the minimum salary in the NBA, and so the
Speaker 1: opportunity to go overseas and make a lot more money
Speaker 1: doing it by playing there for a few months a
Speaker 1: year during the off season is obviously very attractive to
Speaker 1: players who have, like all athletes do, a limited time
Speaker 1: window in which to make a living. We learned about
Speaker 1: her arrest after Russia had invaded Ukraine, and there have
Speaker 1: been instances of governments like Russia and China arresting foreign
Speaker 1: nationals to use them as pressure points to exert influence
Speaker 1: over other countries, almost kind of holding them as hostages
Speaker 1: for leverage. Do we think that's what's happening here. It's
Speaker 1: hard to say, you know, to know to understand what
Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin has in mind is something that I think
Speaker 1: everyone is trying to figure out in ways that have
Speaker 1: geopolitical significance, not just women's basketball significance, or even just
Speaker 1: as they relate to Brittany Graner specifically. But I don't
Speaker 1: think it's something you can rule out. It's clearly something
Speaker 1: that the Russian government it has not been willing to
Speaker 1: engage on to the point that we found anything like
Speaker 1: a resolution. So Brittany's wife and her family have been
Speaker 1: relatively quiet about this situation after Grinder was detained, as
Speaker 1: has the State Department. They've been very very careful in
Speaker 1: the language that they've used. Clearly they're trying not to
Speaker 1: inflame the situation. How's her wife and family processing all this.
Speaker 1: They've been keeping things very quiet and very internal. So
Speaker 1: it's it's a difficult thing to say, but clearly there
Speaker 1: is an effort that is being made. It is more
Speaker 1: public than it was at first. It was, to my
Speaker 1: mind a bad sign when Russian state media made this
Speaker 1: public that this was something that was ongoing, simply because
Speaker 1: it was a sign that they were not looking to
Speaker 1: engage behind the scenes and come to a resolution about it,
Speaker 1: and instead felt comfortable letting us know about it. The
Speaker 1: fact that there has been no real updates since then
Speaker 1: outside of this date that was put forward that she's
Speaker 1: been held until May nineteenth. There's nothing magical about May nineteenth.
Speaker 1: That's not as if they have promised you re released
Speaker 1: on this day. It is simply the most recent status update,
Speaker 1: all right. So it's a really difficult situation, Howard, and
Speaker 1: you spoke with a bunch of people around the w
Speaker 1: n b A about this, and a lot of them
Speaker 1: told you how concerned they are for Griner, one of
Speaker 1: whom is Minnesota links star aerial powers, especially when it
Speaker 1: first came out, Like every time I was eating, I
Speaker 1: was like, damn, like what kind of millions we do?
Speaker 1: Haven't or you know what I was going to work out,
Speaker 1: I'm like, dang, she can't even work on the ready
Speaker 1: pro season, like even touching the basketball. It's just like
Speaker 1: it was kind of like sad because it's like, you
Speaker 1: know that this could have been you, It's gonna be
Speaker 1: any one of your teammates, Like, and it feels like
Speaker 1: we are helpless. Everybody is unbelievably concerned. You know, there
Speaker 1: is this feeling and so only of players I've spoken
Speaker 1: to that there but for the race of God go
Speaker 1: I is the thing you can turn over and over again.
Speaker 1: It's very easily could have been any of us, especially
Speaker 1: if in fact this was evidence for instance, that may
Speaker 1: have been planted. You know, this is a very common
Speaker 1: tactic of the Russian authorities as well, and so there's
Speaker 1: a concern, there's a feeling of helplessness of we want
Speaker 1: to do more, and players are afraid to even be
Speaker 1: vociferous in public, not knowing whether that is something that
Speaker 1: would be positive or negative. Yeah, it's a really delicate situation.
Speaker 1: When you spoke with Brianna Stewart from the Seattle Storm,
Speaker 1: she told you that she's trying to show support for
Speaker 1: Grinder without necessarily drawing attention to her being detained because
Speaker 1: everything is so fragile for the players too, were just
Speaker 1: singing to represent her. Even if we're not speaking about her,
Speaker 1: we're really finding her supporting her, and I think that's
Speaker 1: the biggest thing is you know, I talked about supporting
Speaker 1: her very filmy pension and the places that she supports
Speaker 1: and doing that west and kind of anchoring from so
Speaker 1: the Russian courts extended her detention until at least May nineteen.
Speaker 1: What happens May nineteen, do we think and what's next
Speaker 1: for Britney Grinder? It's a really hard thing to say that.
Speaker 1: That's what makes this so concerned and so many people
Speaker 1: is we're an uncharted territory. You know. The idea that
Speaker 1: all these players who play overseas have to figure out
Speaker 1: what they're going to be doing in the fall, when
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily clear what the Russian invasion of your
Speaker 1: train is going to look like next week. Makes it
Speaker 1: very difficult to plot a professional way forward for so
Speaker 1: many people. And so this is something that obviously is
Speaker 1: affecting Brittany Grinders such a significant extent, but this has
Speaker 1: ramifications for the way all women's basketball players in the
Speaker 1: world are making a living. How obviously there's a lot
Speaker 1: of concern in the w n b A about Brittany
Speaker 1: Grinder and her well being, but you would also mention
Speaker 1: the new rules and the c b A and how
Speaker 1: it will make it a little more difficult for w
Speaker 1: NBA players to play abroad. Tell us a little bit
Speaker 1: more about that. So in the new cb A, there's
Speaker 1: something called prioritization, and it means that as you need
Speaker 1: to report for the start of training camp or be
Speaker 1: fined and report by the first day of the w
Speaker 1: n b A regular season or be suspended for the year,
Speaker 1: that becomes you need to report by the first day
Speaker 1: of training camp or be suspended for the season. And
Speaker 1: so a lot of players are now going to have
Speaker 1: to make that choice one or the other, playing overseas
Speaker 1: or making sure you are in camp in time to
Speaker 1: play in the w n b A. So this is
Speaker 1: obviously a scenario that no one would want. That said,
Speaker 1: it does strike a lot of different people as a
Speaker 1: potentially beneficial thing to help reorder the way the w
Speaker 1: n bagists within the pecking order of the world of
Speaker 1: women's basketball professional basketball specifically. So we'll be fashionating to
Speaker 1: see what the stars do and even what the rank
Speaker 1: and final members of the w n b A do
Speaker 1: heading into prioritization over the next two years. How have
Speaker 1: you done an excellent job covering this story? As more
Speaker 1: developments occur, hopefully we'll have you back. Thanks for this
Speaker 1: any telling. Sports Illustrated Weekly is a production of Sports
Speaker 1: Illustrated and I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your favorite shows. And for more
Speaker 1: of Sports Illustrated's best stories and podcasts, visit SI dot com.
Speaker 1: This episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly was produced by Cooper McKim,
Speaker 1: Jessica Yourmoski, and Isaac Lee, who was also our sound engineer.
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Dan Bloom. Our executive producers are
Speaker 1: Scott Brody and me John Gonzalez. Our theme song is
Speaker 1: by Nolan Schneider. Thanks for listening, and if you've stuck
Speaker 1: around this long, we leave you with this all right. Jimmy,
Speaker 1: so you're a noted Yankees fan, how will you feel
Speaker 1: this Friday, April nine when the Yankees play their very
Speaker 1: first game on Apple TV Plus. If I am home,
Speaker 1: I will be able to watch the game. I have
Speaker 1: Apple Plus, I know how to use it and all
Speaker 1: that stuff. If from not home and I'm in a restaurant,
Speaker 1: it's a Friday night, the Mets were playing the Nationals
Speaker 1: on Apple TV, and it was Max Serg's first thought.
Speaker 1: I did want to tune in just to see it
Speaker 1: for you know, an inning or two and I was
Speaker 1: at a friend's house and he didn't have Apple TV.
Speaker 1: Despite everyone on social media telling me this is not
Speaker 1: a big deal. Everyone has Apple TV, So there you go.
Speaker 1: There's a hundred and sixty two games, so if I
Speaker 1: miss one here and there, it's not the end of
Speaker 1: the world. But it is amazing that baseball wants to
Speaker 1: anger the local fan when it's become such a local
Speaker 1: life sport. Listen as an East Coaster myself, it's better
Speaker 1: not to anger us. So god speed to Apple. Yes,
Speaker 1: and the Apple reviews have not been pretty. Like I said,
Speaker 1: I didn't see the opening week because I was somewhere
Speaker 1: where they didn't have Apple TV. But I don't think
Speaker 1: i've ever seen anything in sports broadcasting get completely destroyed
Speaker 1: like the Apple TV production of Major League Baseball. Nowhere
Speaker 1: to go but up. Yeah, well that's true. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: is true. There's the there's the half fall.