WEBVTT - Dimon Annual Letter, EV Charging Profit 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:10.799 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:15.000 Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:18.040 Eastern on Apple, Cardplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.400 Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:24.360 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:26.720 At the other headline of the day, we love it. 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:30.280 It's Jamie Diamond, CEO of JP Morgan and his annual letter. 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:33.239 Lots of things to get through on this one. You know, 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:37.159 he says that AI could augument virtually every job, so 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:39.800 that was sort of the one thing he did talk about. Obviously, 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:42.040 he doesn't like lots of regulation in Boswell three, so 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:45.320 let's dig into it. Allison Williams, Bloomberg Intelligence, Senior Analyst, 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.400 Global Banks and Asset Managers, joins us. Now, all right, Alison, 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:49.800 what are some of the takeaways here? 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:54.400 So I think, you know, it's always interesting to hear 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:57.800 what's on Jamie's mind. I think some things are consistent. 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:01.520 He gives his views on on regulation, which he feels 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:05.640 like there definitely needs to be some changes as well 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:07.480 as the policy. 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:08.640 And the political front. 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.040 You know, one of the interesting things this year was 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:15.880 the twenty year look back it's the anniversary of the 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:21.120 JP Morgan Bank One deal. As you may remember, Bank 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:25.200 One was actually the buyer of JP Morgan, and I 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:27.880 was lucky enough to be at the dinner that night 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.760 with the CEOs of both Bank One and JP Morgan, 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:36.199 and certainly did not anticipate what would be where we'd be, 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:41.319 you know, twenty years later, But did anticipate that. Jamie Diamond, 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:45.160 even I think at that time, showed himself to be 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:49.400 a patient CEO. He waited to take the job, he 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.440 was selective, he took the job with Bank One, he 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:55.600 was selective about the JP Morgan deal. He stored up 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:59.960 his capital and was in a good position at the crisis. 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:02.800 And so you know, today when we're seeing a lot 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:07.840 of headlines around some of his concerns, and again certainly 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:09.880 he does outline a lot of these in the annual report, 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:13.520 it just really just puts into mind that the risk. 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:14.600 Manager that he is. 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.200 And so while there's a lot of headlines about his 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:21.519 talk about inflation, he's been very vocal about the world 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:24.919 needing to be prepared for higher rates. I think it's 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:28.840 just a way that he does his job and manages 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:32.120 his company thinking about the downsides, thinking about the risks 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:35.400 out there and sort of always being prepared to be 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:37.040 in the best position he can. 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:39.480 All right, Allison, So those are you know, we always 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.000 look to that letter for some long term trend issues 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.320 and he calls out AI in particular this time, how 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:47.440 about the short term stuff. We're gonna hear about the 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:49.959 short term stuff this Friday with the earning starting. 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:51.240 What are you what are you looking for. 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:53.519 From JPM and maybe from some of the other big 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:54.400 banks that we care about. 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:57.359 Sure, and you know, there are a lot of call 0:02:57.480 --> 0:02:59.760 outs about the great job that they've been doing, the 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:03.280 great year that they had last year, and we really 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:07.960 think that this quarter they're going to continue to you know, 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.240 execute on all cylinders. I think that the net interest 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:13.200 income story is you know, that's sort of the big 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:16.480 thing that everyone's watching. We've had a big shift in 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.040 the market view on rates since the last time these 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.639 banks have reported, but we think that JP Morgan will 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.760 continue to show resilience in that net interest income and 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:31.640 surprise investors positively on that front. Part of that is 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.079 the credit card business, where it just continues to show 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:38.200 very strong growth, and part of it is the deposit pricing, 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.840 which has come in a little bit better than expected. 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:44.320 So we think that's that's going to help JP. 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:47.320 Morgan, it's going to help Bank of America the card side, 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.240 helping JP Morgan and City Group a little bit more. 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:54.240 But also we're we may see provisions tick up, but 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:58.000 that's not because of the weaker environment. It's more because 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:01.800 the card loan growth continues to be strong. It's normalizing, 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:04.400 and this tends to be the seasonally. 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:05.800 Higher quarter for card losses. 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.520 So I think that we could get more resilient and 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:10.560 interesting income up, also higher provisions. 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.760 Yeah, let's talk about that, because last week Marcus Golden 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:17.840 Sax's Marcus lowered the rate on its savings account high 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:19.919 yield savings account. It was just ten basis points, but 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:22.320 and I obviously use it, and I was like, dude, 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:24.640 we haven't even had a rate cut. What are we doing? 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:26.920 But that's clearly going to be good for these guys, 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:27.919 but bad for me. 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:29.960 Yeah. 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:34.920 So, I mean on the deposit front, you know, really 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:39.800 a year ago, I think it became a big news 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:45.039 with all the bank turmoil that deposit prices were going up, 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:48.920 and consumers I think that saw those headlines if they 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:52.160 hadn't already been getting the yield, they were going after it, 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.080 and so the yields have gone up. 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:57.480 We saw the yields on loans go up, and then 0:04:57.480 --> 0:04:58.640 we saw the yields. 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:00.800 On deposits go up and now are out of place 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:04.200 where you know, the question is will that will those 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.120 deposit prices continue to go up and sort of eat 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:11.240 away at the yield. The reason why banks are or 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:15.480 one benefit of banks of if the rate cuts come 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.080 is that those prices will come down, as you said, 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:21.279 But then you know, there for all of these banks, 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:23.800 there is a question of you know, the deposits and 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.760 what they can do with those deposits, excuse me, And 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.840 there is a competitive aspect to it, and so there 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.200 are times when banks are more aggressively pricing, and there 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:37.279 are times when you know, as you said, for Goldman Sachs, 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:40.320 maybe they're less aggressively pricing. Maybe they see, you know, 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.960 less of a need of what they can do with 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.680 that money, or balance sheet management because as we know, 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:51.080 there is a cost to capital to fund that balance sheet, 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:53.760 that there are higher capital requirements, there are other things 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.279 you can do with your capital, and so I think these. 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.280 All kind of go into the mix of what banks 0:05:58.320 --> 0:05:58.800 are thinking. 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:02.200 Hey, Allison, going to hear anything this quarter from the 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:04.840 banks about commercial real estate and the problems that may 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:08.880 pose for the US I guess economy and maybe the 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:12.280 banking system. Or is that just a regional bank thing. 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:16.320 I think, you know, it will continue to tick up. 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:17.920 I think it's it is a. 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:21.520 Broad I guess bank thing, But the commercial the regional 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:23.560 banks is just more important to their earnings. 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:25.400 So I was speaking. 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.560 Before about card If you look at card that the 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:33.400 banks that I cover, you know, especially JP Morgan, City, Wells, 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:38.240 and Bank of America are tend to be over indexed to. 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:40.719 Card less so to commercial real estate. 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.960 Of those four banks, Wells Fargo is really the one 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:47.520 that that sort of has a commercial real estate exposure 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.840 similar to the regional piers. They have the largest US 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.680 office exposure across the banks I cover, But they also 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:57.520 have an eight percent reserve already against those loans, so 0:06:57.560 --> 0:06:59.560 they've been very conservative. 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:02.680 On that book. I think the newer worry, if you will, 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:07.080 is the excuse me multifamily lending business. 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:10.080 New York Community really sort of brought that to Like 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.760 JP Morgan has the closest business to that, but they've 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:16.920 talked about some underwriting protections they have there just in 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:20.480 terms of how they look at rents and the way 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.080 they underwrite being much more conservative. And so they've had 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.200 you know, very good performance in that book over a 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.440 long period of time. Still, you know people are going 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.360 to look at it, but it's just it's more of 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.480 sort of a very long term story for the. 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:37.920 Banks and having a hard time getting excited about JP 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:41.480 Morgan kicking off earnings on Friday. What's going to be 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:43.680 for me? Sort of and for you the biggest surprise, 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:45.800 like what are you most jazzed about watching when it 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.360 comes to all the big banks, all the asset managers, 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:50.600 all the private all the guys. 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.320 I mean, I think the biggest surprise will be that 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:56.960 interest income resilience and just the fact that it does 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.960 come in better than expected. You know, it was interesting 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.640 last quarter all the banks generally beat on net interest 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:06.400 income but guided down and so the stocks were acted, 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:08.640 you know, very negatively towards that. 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:10.600 This quarter, I think there. 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:13.400 Will be the resilience in the net interest income that 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.000 could surprise to the upside. They will adjust the outlooks 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:20.280 the ladder is expected. I think the other thing that 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:22.280 that I'll be focusing on investors are going to be 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:25.920 focusing on is those investment banking fees. So there's been 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:31.200 a lot of talk about bullishness for those fees. You know, 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:33.920 we also think that we could see a big jump 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:38.040 in the fees, but we're still you know, nowhere near 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.280 compared to where we were at the twenty twenty one, So, 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:44.240 you know, you could see a big jump in fees, 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:46.840 but the questions are going to be you know, how 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.439 are things trending. I pos the volumes have been good, 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:54.079 but you know, there's still a lot of questions from 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.559 investors around some of the performance. We've had some good performers, 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:01.360 there have been some not so good performer We still 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:06.720 have some valuations that you know, investors are waiting to 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.760 get better. They don't want to go public and have 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.040 to mark down those investments. So I think the pipelines 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.600 and the investment banking fees are going to be right. 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:18.480 I guess one of the more exciting things this quarter, Alex, 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:22.600 you know, maybe not as exciting as we had hoped 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:24.199 for earlier in the year. 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.040 Yeah, we'll see, all right. Alison Williams, thanks so much 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:28.800 for joining us. 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:30.920 Alson Williams. She's a senior animal. She covers all the 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:33.599 big banks on a global basis. She does that for 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.319 Bloomberg Intelligence. Before that, she alluded to she was at 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.960 Morgan Stanley Investment Management on the buy side and where 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.560 she covered the banks. And of course, when a couple 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:46.440 of big banks get together, they need to court their 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.840 large shareholders, and Morgan Stanley Investment Management is certainly one 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.000 of those. So that's why Allison was on the front lines. 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:56.239 And when those two JP Morgan Chase with the predecessor 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:58.079 and the bank from Ohio. 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:00.719 I can't think of the name one one. 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:02.680 I bet she's not watching the eclipse because it's hard 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:04.760 at work. So I mean, I'm just saying, but I'm 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.160 also looking at multiple countdown clocks now are counting down 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:08.880 to the eclipse special orre we counting down to the 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:12.640 actual eclipse. See, I'm just saying, this is a lot happening. 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:18.160 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.760 weekdays at ten am Eastern on applecar Play and Android 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:24.559 Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:27.800 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:30.920 Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:34.480 This is Bloomberg Intelligence Radio. We bring you all the 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.400 top analysts from all our great coverage. We cover about 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:39.960 two thousand companies one hundred and thirty industries worldwide. We 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.199 are broadcasting too, live from Interactive Broker's studio right here 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.920 in Midtown Manhattan. You can also check us on YouTube. 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.240 So Bloomberg Intelligence has an amazing arm of analysts cover 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.480 companies and themes. We also have something here at Bloomberg 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.920 called Bloomberg New Energy Finance, and the idea behind it 0:10:55.960 --> 0:11:00.720 is to provide data on commodities, power, transport, industry, buildings, 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:05.760 and agriculture as well as new technology as we kind 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.640 of build a more sustainable world. Right we know we're transitioning, 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:10.839 and we know we have to get there, and how 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.319 you finance it is the huge question, and there's a 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:15.640 big gap between like the VC things and then the 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:19.360 scalable stuff, and helping to finance that gap is very tricky. 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:22.280 So we thought every Monday we would bring you an 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.600 amazing analyst from BNF and sort of talk through some 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.280 of these issues that we're confronting. So this time we're 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:32.840 going to talk about ev charging. So Ryan Fisher is 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:36.720 Bloomberg BNF EV charging team leader and he joins us 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:40.440 now from London. So I guess, just to start off, 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:43.480 who are the big players in EV charging? 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:48.000 Yeah, so some of them maybe not quite household Thames yet, 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.640 but you've got charge Point in the US certainly people 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:55.439 may have heard of, and the sentiment was pretty positive 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:57.760 a few years ago. Stock prices up and then everything 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.360 is kind of crashed down, sentiment not so great. Some 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.920 of these companies have not met the targets that they 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.800 might have done. But what we're starting to see the 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:09.080 few companies that you definitely won't have heard of actually 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:12.680 have started to post some positive profit margins. So there's 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:16.800 like fast charging manufacturers in Europe call Ken Power making 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:19.160 that the kind of units that concern big power to 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:21.360 evs and charge it fast. And then you've got some 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:23.840 of the ones who do the slower power units as well. 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:26.520 And then also you've got a couple of these companies 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.800 that you may have heard of, like ABB, producing chargers 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.480 as part of a portfolio. So they're selling transformers and 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.040 they're sort of using that as somewhat of a way 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:36.960 to get into companies and sell some of their other 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.080 products that they've got and added on as an additional 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:43.120 so lots going on on the hardware side, and then 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:45.679 you've got operators. So these are like the companies who 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:48.199 basically will sell the electricity to charge a vehicle. You 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:50.559 kind of think of it like filling up with petrol. 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.560 And none of those so far are profitable, but we 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:57.199 have seen some good signs, so some of those being 0:12:57.240 --> 0:12:59.880 EBITDAR positive now fast ned posted that which is a 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.640 Dutch one the other day in the US. Unprofitable so far, 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.600 but there's a company called EVgo you may have heard of, 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:10.480 who has these fast charges and they actually basically delivered 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:12.800 one hundred and ninety one percent more energy in twenty 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:14.959 twenty three than they had in twenty twenty two, so 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:16.640 good progress there. 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.360 So Ryan, where are we kind of, I guess on 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:24.800 a timeline of kind of getting enough charging capabilities into 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.280 the system that can really support, you know, a wide 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:32.120 adoption of evs. It feels like what we're hit We've 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:35.439 hit a speed bump here. What's the timeline do you think? 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:37.280 When you talk to folks in the industry. 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.320 Yeah, it's an interesting one because we cover the global markets. 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.440 So you look at China and they installed about a 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:46.800 million of these public charges last year, and the US 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.200 did sort of low tens of thousands. So there's a 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.120 big difference depending on where you are in the world. 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.640 I think the US and Europe are more similar in 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.839 how they'll play out, and Europe is maybe just five 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.240 years ahead. So Europe has got actually loads of competition 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:03.040 at the moment, and the story a little bit when 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:06.480 we look at this is some of the companies looking 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:08.920 like competition is starting to weigh on the demand that 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:13.000 they're delivering because it's a bit monopolistic. So I want 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.160 the best land as a company, and I want the 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:17.280 best grid connection, and I want that to be somewhere 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.720 that people are going and somewhere where people can buy things. 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.480 And they're realizing that, well, the demand isn't quite there yet. 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:25.760 But if we believe in the long term trajectory of evs, 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:28.400 let's get in this business. Let's get those spots. So 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.120 we've seen that in Europe, and I think the US 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:32.680 is just starting to tick over. The US has been 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:36.200 hugely dominated by Tesla. So if you look at Tesla 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:38.360 on the vehicle side, kind of eighty percent of these 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:42.480 pure battery electric vehicles five years ago, kind of Tesla's 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.640 and then they also provide the supercharging, and that's kind 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.000 of pushed all the competition out. But what we saw 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:50.480 last year was some of these other auto makers really 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:54.240 producing the evs and therefore providing a market for other 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:58.480 people to come into, but the US slightly behind basically 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:02.840 the global maybe just because Tesla has this dominance in 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:03.600 the market. 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:07.600 This is a super dumb question. Where does a charging 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.400 operator get the power to then enable me to put 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:13.080 a Tesla into that network? 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:18.160 Yeah, it's an interesting one. So there has been a 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.000 lot of these companies that are going out and they're saying, 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:22.480 you know what, instead of putting two charges in at 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.920 my petrol station where the power exists, I actually now 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.000 need kind of twelve chargers. And in some cases, when 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:29.960 you look at, for example, the Tesla stations, they've got 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.560 like one hundred chargers in one spot. Now that becomes 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.800 a big grid connection. The next thing is charging the trucks. 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:37.640 So this could be like the same amount of power 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:41.200 as a town, and a lot of the utilities are 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:42.600 taking too long to do it. So it's like that 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:44.200 how long does it take to get a permit? How 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:47.640 long does it take to actually get energized, can you 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:50.320 make the agreements with the land, Lisa, All of this 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.760 has kind of slowed it down, but clearly industries trying 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.040 to work together, and this has become a big topic 0:15:56.080 --> 0:16:00.280 for the automakers and the utilities as well, some of 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.800 them trying to sign contracts on site. So if you 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:07.200 imagine these companies small fry, like several small meters across 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:11.400 multiple places, the utility is maybe not so interested in that, 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:15.080 but now they're actually delivering a lot of demand. So 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.120 as I say, looking to other markets in the US 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.400 and China being a good example, the public chargers in 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:22.960 China now deliver more energy than the whole of Ireland, 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:27.880 so a lot of energy. And therefore that becomes interesting 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.880 because if you're an energy developer and you're doing like 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:33.480 solar on site next to it with a battery, and 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.280 we've seen what TV, which is one of these truck 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.840 charging companies, basically build a station that's not connected to 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.000 the grid at all. It's just got straight to the 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.880 solar and a battery. So cool innovations going on there. 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:49.400 Hey, Ryan, Here in the US, EV sales have slowed 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:51.320 materially and a lot of people are trying to think 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.120 there's a combination of reasons, price being a big big one, 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.960 but one of those drivers is just the lack of 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:01.400 a fully ubiquitous charging in structure. When you talk to 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:05.160 your EV companies, how did they think about it? Are 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:07.600 they concerned about the long term demand of EV's in general, 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:10.359 and if so, do they feel like they could be 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:11.359 part of the solution there? 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:16.200 Yeah, and there's definitely kind of differences in opinions. The 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:21.359 US hionde CEO saying something along the lines of today, 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.600 why buy an EV from an automaker who's lobbying against EV's, 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.520 And obviously he's talking about the US there. But you 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:31.199 do see a difference in those that are kind of 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:32.840 in on it and those that aren't. And I think 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:37.160 some who aren't have previously been so they've they've committed billions, 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:40.160 they've talked about targets, and then they're starting to row 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.720 it back. And some of that is maybe because the 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.720 technology is behind they can't do it as cheap as 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:50.760 everyone else. So there's different reasons. And I think when 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.560 you look at liabilities, I don't think that's talked about enough. Actually, 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:57.080 some of these companies have put cars out there and 0:17:57.560 --> 0:17:59.320 then the batteries had a problem and they've got to 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.280 recall it, and that could be multi billions. So I 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:03.320 think there's some caution as well in saying, why don't 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.399 we put a few less casts out because then we 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:08.040 can learn from them and we can do it later. 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.359 Some of the narrative has been they're not putting the 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:14.360 cars out because quite physibly, like the battery operations are 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:16.160 up and running. But I think there was other reasons. 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:19.959 Ryan, Hey, look, this was great. We really appreciated Ryan Fisher, 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:24.240 Bloomberg BNF EV charging head, and we'll be doing this 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:28.400 every Monday, talking about different areas within the energy transition. 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:30.360 This is why Paul stuck with me, because somehow I'm 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.159 going to make him talk about all this stuff. But 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.880 interesting you might have, like what little power centers around 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:37.040 EV charging networks. 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.280 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.080 weekdays at ten am Eastern on Effle car Playing and 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.080 broud Otto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:53.440 wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:56.440 And Barry, founder and managing partner at the Red Needle, 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:58.920 is joining us. Equity is doing nothing A body yelds 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:00.879 up a little bit. But before we get to all 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:03.080 that fun stuff, an, are you watching the eclipse? 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:07.040 Absolutely would have missed it. I remember the last one 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.560 seven years ago, Alex and just standing out in Central 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.440 Park with armies full of people. So I'm hoping to 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:14.280 repeat the experience again. Today's look of fun. 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.280 All right, So she's not a clip stow, fine, are 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.160 you bon yield out at this point? That's my way 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:22.679 of asking, like, hey, how much higher can yield go 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:23.280 at this point? 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:24.680 Yeah? 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:26.560 I got to tell you, Alex, I for a while 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:29.720 now stopped looking at bon yields as an indicator of 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.560 where I should be putting capital to work. Just these 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:35.800 usual indicators haven't been as consistent over the last couple 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.520 of years, and so I've just really gone back to 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:41.800 good old fashioned fundamentals, esoteric signs, looking specifically at what 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.800 might be a catalyst for the stocks individually, to try 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:45.920 and see you out of play right now? 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:48.560 All right, So where you guys, as you think about 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:51.399 just kind of M and A in general, what's kind 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:53.440 of your outlook here for the remainder of twenty twenty 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:57.080 four Because we've got, you know, equity markets higher, but 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:58.280 rates are still higher as well. 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:01.720 They are, but I do think that the actual backdrop 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:03.000 for M and A this year has gotten a lot 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:05.200 more interesting. If you think back over the last two 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:07.520 years and you put yourself in the position of the 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.119 boards of public companies, and I've been there, it's been 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.080 a really difficult place to say yay or nay to 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:14.879 getting deals done. We've seen a bit of an exception 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:16.800 in the oil and gas based alex that I know 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.439