1 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on democracy. 2 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: Here is at stake, and we have to have alliances 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: of people that strongly disagree on everything. But that fact 4 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: in platition is not going to be a problem. Placion 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: will moderate Bloomberg Sound on politics, policy and perspective from 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: DC's top name. It would be insanity if the Democrats 7 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: don't do something on build back better. Pennsylvania, one of 8 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: the closest states in the election, will be critical for 9 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: deciding which party controls the Senate. After Bloomberg Sound On 10 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio, the White House serves 11 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: up new intelligence on the standoff with Russia, warning again 12 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: now of a plot by Vladimir Putin to create the 13 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 1: pretext for war and justify an invasion. All this has 14 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: Congress prepares a package of sanctions that could emerge at 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: any time. We'll have the latest for you on both 16 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: and discuss today's raise on the leader of Isis in 17 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: Syria with Congressman Jake Aukin Clost, Democrat from Massachusetts, a 18 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: combat veteran who served as a marine in Afghanistan. He'll 19 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: be with us in a moment later. Our conversation with 20 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,559 Speaker 1: Congressman Kevin Brady, Republican from Texas. He's the ranking member 21 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: on the House Ways and Means Committee and has some 22 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: strong opinions about the Biden economic agenda and a severely 23 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: challenged tax season which is now just underway. Will get 24 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: reaction on those stories and today's Federal Reserve confirmation hearings. Yeah, 25 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: there's a lot from the panel. Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie 26 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: Shenzano and Rick Davis with us again today. President Biden 27 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: maybe in New York today talking about crime prevention, but 28 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: foreign policy national security have been the issues at the 29 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: White House before he left. This morning, President Biden announcing 30 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: the successful rate of ISIS leader Abou Ibrahim Alashimi al Karashi, 31 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: also known as Haji Abdullah. Knowing that this terrorist had 32 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: chosen surround himself with families, including children, we made a 33 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: choice to pursue a special forces raid at a much 34 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: greater risk than our to our own people were, rather 35 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: than targeting him with an air strike, and the raid 36 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: was conducted by US special Forces. Haji Abdullah blew himself up. 37 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: In fact, he blew up the whole floor and took 38 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: several members of his own family, all the while White 39 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: House National Security team trained on what's happening in Ukraine. 40 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: A new warning from the administration that Russia is planning 41 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: a false flag operation, a scheme to fabricate a pretext 42 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: for an invasion with a fabricated attack and graphic propaganda 43 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: video similar to the warning we already heard from the 44 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: White House. And this is where we start with Congressman 45 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: Jake Aukincloss, who was with us this morning, Democrat from Massachusetts, 46 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: combat veteran who served as a marine in Afghanistan. Congressman, 47 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 1: welcome back to Bloomberg. Good to be on. It's like 48 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: to start in the matter of sanctions with regard to 49 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 1: Ukraine in Russia. I know you do not favor implementing 50 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: sanctions up front, what a false flag operation like the 51 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: one we're hearing about from the White House, justify them. 52 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: It's important to understand the purpose of sanctions. The purpose 53 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: of sanctions is to be a deterrent effect, so that 54 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: when President Putin is weighing the benefits and risks to 55 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: him of invading Ukraine, he has to put the sanctions 56 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: on the debit side of the calculation. He has to 57 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: say that these are risks inherent in that operation. So 58 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: if we were to preemptively wage the sanctions before he 59 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: had invaded Ukraine, they would lose their entire deterrent effect 60 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: while still imposing costs on the United States and European countries. 61 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: So we need to keep those sanctions in reserve as 62 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: a deterrent effect. The purpose of sharing with the world 63 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: his intentions to wage a false flag operation is to 64 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: neutralize the misinformation from that false flag operation. We want 65 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: the world to know that President Putin is trying to 66 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: gas light NATO. Speaker Nancy Pelosi says leaders are taking 67 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: steps now in the House to move a sanctions bill 68 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: with speed. Congressman, here's what she said today. We want 69 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: to move quickly with these. That will be up to 70 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: the Chairman as to the process and the rest, but um, 71 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: but we want to be as close to the Senate 72 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: bill as possible so there's no delay in getting something 73 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: to the President's desk. Sounds like this could be on 74 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: the fast track, even though there's not an actual deal yet. Congressmen, 75 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: do you have a sense of when that might happen. 76 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: I don't, but I think days or weeks, certainly, not 77 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: anything longer. Than that understood, how do you make it 78 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,679 Speaker 1: hurt this time? If if this is the big package 79 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: we're hearing about, if if it was in fact triggered 80 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: by an invasion or whatever level it is that you 81 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: see justifying sanctions. Should Russia be kicked out of the 82 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: SWIFT financial network? Do you support personal sanctions against Putin? 83 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: So the trigger for sanctions should be Russian forces crossing 84 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: the border. Units crossed the border without you know, the 85 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 1: invitation of the Ukrainian government. That's an invasion that triggers 86 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: the sanctions immediately. They're really going to be on two fronts. 87 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: One is UH energy and one is financial. We got 88 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: to cut them off from the international financial system. Obviously, 89 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: severing SWIFT is a draconian step, and they'll have repercussions 90 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: for the international financial system as well. UH, and that 91 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: needs to be weighed very carefully. But energy exports are 92 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: obviously an incredibly important source of reserves for for Russia 93 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: and for standards of living for the Russian people, and 94 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: we need to make clear that they're going to lose 95 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: a huge amount of that revenue stream. The final one 96 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: I'll add, and you raise it as about personal sanctions, 97 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: strongly support that President Putin's um sort of political legitimacy 98 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: comes much more from his fellow oligarchs than it does 99 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: from the Russian people themselves, and by really turning the 100 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: screws on their standards of living, especially in relates to 101 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: their asset storage and places like London and their access 102 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 1: to educational institutions in Europe for their kids, that's got 103 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: to fight as well. You've made the point, Congressman, that 104 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: the Vladimir Putin's motivations have as much to do with 105 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: domestic politics as geo politics. And if he's in fact 106 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: trying to distract from from disappointed a population in his 107 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: own country, does that also mean you do not think 108 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: he'll actually invade, That this is a big show for home. Well, 109 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: I think it can be a big show for home, 110 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: but can also mean that he's going to invade. He 111 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: cannot be seen to lose face drastically in front of 112 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: his domestic audience. As you said, this is a show 113 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: for them, and as unfortunately popular with the Russian people, 114 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: they view much of Ukraine as really the ancestral Russian homeland, 115 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: and so President Putin needs to be able to explain 116 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: if he is going to take an off ramp away 117 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: from war. How he got something that reinforces the greatness 118 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: of the Russian nation. And that's going to be the 119 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: art of the diplomacy here is to be able to 120 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 1: provide him an off ramp that allows him to save 121 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: some measure of face with his domestic audience and with 122 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: his elite audience. Yeah, considering off ramps here, how would 123 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: sanctions play domestically for Vladimir Putin? Russian leaders have taken 124 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: great pain since to try to sanction proof their economy 125 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: and to try to prove vent Western leverage through sanctions. Now, 126 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: that was for a level of sanctions that as an 127 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: order of magnitude less intensive than what would come if 128 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: they invaded Ukraine. I don't think there is any sheltering 129 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: of the Russian economy from what's to come. But they 130 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: do have significant, I mean more than a hundred billion 131 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: dollars worth of reserves that they can draw down on 132 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: uh And it's unlikely that it would cause a cy 133 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: cateclysm for the Russian domestic economy in the near term, 134 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: but it absolutely is going to cause the deterioration in 135 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: quality of life or constituents in a very short term 136 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: Congress would like to ask you quickly about the raid 137 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: on the leader of isis a major story today. We 138 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: heard from the President already and from the Pentagon now 139 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: recalling our conversations that you and I had about over 140 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: the horizon missions following our withdrawal from Afghanistan, is this 141 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: a good example of that? That's exactly right. I recall 142 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: you and I talking about how the United States did 143 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: not need to have a huge body of conventional forces 144 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: in Central Asia in the Middle East in order to 145 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: have effective intelligence and operations against high value terrorist targets. 146 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: This is an exemplar of that. We have the intelligence 147 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: capabilities and we have the special operations capabilities in tandem 148 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: two remove from the battlefield terrorist leaders. Was it smart 149 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: to set in special forces as opposed to using an 150 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: air strike? I mean, the exact tactical maneuver I'm gonna 151 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave to those who were on the on 152 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: the on the ground. Sure, certainly, I don't have the 153 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: kind of insight to well. They were making the point 154 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: that this is an effort to save the lives of civilians, 155 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: to be to be more precise with the results, and 156 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: that's going to need to be weighed on a on 157 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: a mission by mission basis, of course, reducing that the 158 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 1: possibility of cibility casualties always needs to be a priority 159 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: in the mission. Yeah, well it's not isis that you're 160 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: targeting here with your own bill, Congressman. But I do 161 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: want to ask you quickly about the No Bank Accounts 162 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: for Terrorists Act that you just introduced. I suppose this 163 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: this is an example of sanctions, right This bill tells 164 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: the Treasury to monitor banks to make sure they're not 165 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: laundering money for the Taliban. How big of a problem 166 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: is that Afghanistan's and cry sist right now? It is 167 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: in a humanitarian crisis where Afghans are facing privation and starvation, 168 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,719 Speaker 1: and it's in a crisis of economic development in which 169 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: there are no there's no will functioning economy or financial system. 170 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: And what this bill is meant to do is to 171 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: neutralize legitimate national security concerns about the Taliban financing narco 172 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: terror activities so that we can provide humanitarian and economic 173 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 1: development funds. So it is it is trying to neutralize 174 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: one challenge that we have in order to allow us 175 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: to actually more effectively financed Afghan recovery. Because the United 176 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: States of the special responsibility to that country. Does the 177 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: situation on the ground in Afghanistan right now resemble what 178 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 1: you thought it would look like when we were discussing 179 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: the withdrawal at the end of August. I mean, unfortunately, 180 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: the Taliban's incompetence was in terms of governance was not 181 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: hard to predict. I think the scale of emigration and 182 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: the scale if privation is really is startling and it 183 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: needs to be addressed. The United States has a responsibility 184 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: to provide humanitarian relief, which we are, but we've got 185 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: to step up that belief, as I've advocated for. In 186 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: orders to do that in a way that does not 187 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: fuel narco terror activities, we need to ensure that the 188 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: Taliban leadership are not allowed to basically laundering humanitarian funds. Congressman, lastly, 189 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,599 Speaker 1: you and I have been talking about foreign policy geopolitics 190 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: for the last almost ten minutes. Is all of this 191 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: distracting from democratic priorities in two or could the party 192 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: handle both at once? Not only can the party, but 193 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: that is the basis of government, is that the President 194 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: the Congress has both a foreign and a domestic mandate. 195 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: We need to keep Americans and American values safe overseas, 196 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: and we of course need to be improving the economy 197 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: and getting gaining control of COVID. Here at home, Congressman 198 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: Jake Aukin, class Democrat from Massachusetts, we thank you for 199 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: your time as ways on Bloomberg. Coming up, we assembled 200 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: the panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Chanzano and Rick Davis 201 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: with us their take on America's answer to Putin's plan. 202 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 1: Coming up on Bloomberg. Sound on, we'll check traffic and 203 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: after hours markets for you to stay here. I'm Joe Matthew. 204 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on 205 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. So we're back to 206 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: the false flag now. The headline on the terminal US 207 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: warns of fake video clock to justify attack. Listening to 208 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 1: the Pentagon and the White House for that matter. Describe 209 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: this is quite remarkable. As I mentioned briefly earlier, we're 210 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: talking about a graphic propaganda video that would come with actors, 211 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 1: you know, corpses on the ground, actors as mourners, people 212 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: running around, you know, think shaky cam found video. Cloverfield 213 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: hasn't happened. Yet it's also not the first time we've 214 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: heard about it though, and some have suggested even on 215 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: this program that that's why it hasn't happened. Let's assemble 216 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 1: the panel, Rick and Genie with us Today Bloomberg Politics 217 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: contributors Jeanie Shenzano, Rick Davis, what do you make of this? 218 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: Once again, Jennie, we talked about it the first time. 219 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: For the White House to come out with such specific 220 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: details of what they're expecting might happen, will it keep 221 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: it from happening? You know, it is a very important 222 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: start to publicize these things. Takes the wind out of it. 223 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: I think what's is striking is that the reports are 224 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: that this was just one of many options that they 225 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: had developed to justify sending their troops in. And so 226 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: you know, this this video that they have publicized, it's 227 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: eerie when you read the description of it. But the 228 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: idea that there is more to come, and you know, 229 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: you think about other types of attacks or justifications, including 230 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: cyber that they have at their disposal. Those are things 231 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: that you know, can also justify their entry in and 232 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: so the publicity is an important step, but it's certainly 233 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: not going to stop them. Rick We've talked about Russia's 234 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: and Vladimir Putin's propensity for this kind of a thing. 235 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: What brings the White House to the four to once 236 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: again warn people with much more detail than the first 237 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: time around. Have they seen this video or have reason 238 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: to believe it's coming? You know? I think they must 239 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 1: have reason to believe that it's there, right, that it exists, 240 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: and it's a tool that they're just taken away from Putin, right, 241 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: I mean, like you would think by now the world 242 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: would not believe what Putin tells them about these kinds 243 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: of initiatives. But the reality is that, um it now 244 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: doesn't matter because we're calling Putin on the ground on it. 245 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: The matter of sanctions in the air again today. We've 246 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: been talking quite about it, quite a bit about it. It 247 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: It appears we could get a deal uh fairly soon 248 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: US and UK for that matter. But it looks like 249 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: the situation between the House and Senate Democrats and Republicans. 250 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: You might have heard Nancy Pelosi while I was talking 251 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: to Congressman Auchincloss. They're ready to fast track this genie, 252 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: so the House version matches the Senate version and they 253 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: can get this out the door to the President's desk. 254 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: Does that mean Democrats Republicans agree on this? Now, it's 255 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: stunning to hear myself say this, but it is a 256 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,599 Speaker 1: rare show of bipartisan agreement and and it's important, and 257 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: I think it is a very good sign that they 258 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: are prepared to move forward on this. And you know, 259 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: there had been some debate about preemptive or post but 260 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: they seem to have resolved most of those issues with 261 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: the agreement that the sanctions have to be uh, that 262 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: they have to be effective enough to both preempt and 263 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: two in the aftermath if it occurs um, as Nancy 264 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: Pelosi said post invasion, that leverage should be at the maximum. 265 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: In a pretty clear split. Now, I guess along party 266 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: lines rick about whether we should impose sanctions now or 267 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: maybe a one to punch either have something you know 268 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: in reserve in the case of an invasion, or hold everything. 269 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: Democrats say, if you do anything now, then there's no 270 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: motivation for Putin to not roll in there that we 271 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: lose leverage. You don't agree with that, do you. Now? 272 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: First of all, we already have sanctions on Russia, right 273 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: and they have an effect uh, And there's absolutely no 274 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: reason why we couldn't tear these sanctions so that one uh, 275 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: it coalesces Europe and the US interest together, right. In 276 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: other words, these sanctions have to be completely supported by 277 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: our Western allies. And then two uh, we can just 278 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: show the fact that this war has already begun. I mean, 279 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: the reality is that the the Russians are already attacking 280 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: the Ukraine through cyber attacks, uh, and they already have 281 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: troops within the border of Ukraine, violating their sovereignty. So 282 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: why in the world would we wait until quote the 283 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: Russians crossed the border when they're already there, and we 284 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: keep hearing on a daily basis, Genie that they're adding 285 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: to forces along the border. I mean, at what point 286 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: you heard Jake Aukin Class, the congressman from Massachusetts. He says, no, 287 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: that's called boots crossing the border. They have to actually 288 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: go into Ukraine. But the mobilizing that we're seeing is 289 00:15:55,680 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: distracting the world and causing major problems. It apt ssolutely is. 290 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: And I would just say in one at least to me, 291 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: sort of bright light in all of this today was 292 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: the visit by Turkey's president two Kiev and the idea 293 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: that he has invited Putin to Turkey and March for 294 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: continued talks, don't we We have to remember that Turkey 295 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: is he has very good ties with both Russia and Ukraine. 296 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: It is rare for a NATO country to have that. 297 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: He has that, And so I at least found the 298 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: visit and the potential visit with between Putin and Urtawan 299 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: in Turkey. If it happens in March and they're talking 300 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: potentially peace talks and Istan Bowl after that, you know, 301 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: it's still very much up in the air. But it's 302 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: one potential bright light. But and of course a midst 303 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: of these troops amassing at the border, of course our 304 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: own troops going over not to the Ukraine, but over 305 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: to eastern Europe. What are you making that, rick? I 306 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: was surprised to read it actually that Urdawan signed a 307 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: deal as Alansky to expand the production of drones in Ukraine. 308 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: Is this is the honeymoon with lad going to be off? Now, well, 309 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: I'm not sure exactly how much of a honeymoon that 310 00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: there was. I might not be the best word, but 311 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: they is supposed to have a pretty good relationship. Well, 312 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: Urdawan was buying weapons systems that really infuriated the NATO 313 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: allies from Russia. So sure, I think he's seeing where 314 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,719 Speaker 1: the future is. And I think the future for Turkey 315 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: has always been within the European community, not Russia and 316 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: UH and so look, I think it's it's one of 317 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: those things that can coalesce our allies together and together 318 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: UH Russia cannot beat anybody. Coming up, we turned to 319 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: taxes and the backlog at the I R S. Rick 320 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: and Genie will be back with us as we reassemble 321 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: the panel a bit later. We're gonna talk first with 322 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: the ranking member of the House Ways and Means Committee, 323 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: Congressman Kevin Brady, Republican from Texas, with us here on Bloomberg. 324 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: Sound on, I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. There's a 325 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: call for more funding, as you've heard before for the 326 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: I R S, as the agency faces a backlog now 327 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: of more than ten million tax returns this season. Indeed, 328 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: if you listen to this program, you have been warned already. 329 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: Democrats are pushing for eighty billion dollars in funding this. 330 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: That's what needed to fix the problem. As we heard 331 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 1: late last month from White House Press Secretary Jen Saki, 332 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: we would call on Congress to act now to give 333 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: the I R S the funding it needs to meet 334 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: its goal. But again, in terms of addressing the backlog, 335 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: it's going to take some work. It's going to take 336 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: some time, and I think people need to understand that 337 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: they need funding, but they need to But there's a 338 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: long history here that's led to this moment. Congressman Kevin 339 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: Brady is the ranking Republican on the House Ways and 340 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: Means Committee, and he's back with us today. It's great 341 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: to have you with us again. Congressman. Is this about 342 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: money or is this about more than funding fixing the 343 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 1: ir Yeah? I think, you know, it is a bit 344 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: of both, to be honest, and I would disagree with 345 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: with their characters. The citization of this truth is for 346 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: the past year, the White House has been been has ignored, 347 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: you know, sort of the tax return crisis, and and 348 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: there's millions of returns that have sit on open because 349 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: they've focused on trying to get money for eighty thousand 350 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: new I R S agents to audit Americans as well 351 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: as that that pretty dangerous, I think bank surveillance scheme, 352 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: that's where all their attention has been paid. Not not 353 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: really a time have they allocated to work off this 354 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: backlog and administration has uh really hundreds of billions of 355 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: dollars at their disposal. They didn't allocate anything to the 356 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: I R S or Treasury to address his backlogs. So 357 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: you know, I I think it is only going to 358 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: get worse. Our constituents have been howling about this for 359 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: months and months, so it's not like it should have 360 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: been a surprise for Treasury. The I R S has 361 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: had its funding cut several times, of course, over the 362 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 1: past ten years. This president owns one of them. I 363 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: guess does he deserved the blame for the whole problem? 364 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: You know, uh, not all of it, but certainly to 365 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: blame for not addressing what everyone in Congress in America 366 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: knew was coming, which was another tax filing season on 367 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: top of historically bad and long backlogs. Certainly for Republicans, 368 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: you know, any money or funding needed for customer service 369 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: working at that backlog count us in. We We absolutely 370 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: this is a real crisis that needs to be addressed. 371 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: But so far there again, their whole focus has been 372 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: on the bank surveillance scheme and then the hiring all 373 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: the I R S orders, which I think we're the 374 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: wrong priorities? Is eighty billion dollars the right number? How 375 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: the heck do you get that passed? I know they 376 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: had this in Build back Better that didn't go anywhere obviously, 377 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 1: could that be a standalone bill? Not at eighty billion dollars? 378 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: I don't think I'm reaching any thousand myrs agents are 379 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:34,360 Speaker 1: going to close the closed the tax gap at all. 380 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: I'm In fact, we've enerduce legislation that really refocuses the 381 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: money they have on the much smarter auditing system that 382 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: really goes after those that they think, um, frankly aren't 383 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: paying uh their taxes fully. And we we agree, Look, 384 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: you are taxes, you should pay them, and we're glad 385 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 1: to address that. But right now, customer services the priority, 386 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: and it should be the prior prey deministration just isn't. 387 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: Should the I rest to lay the filing deadline like 388 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: last year. I know it's a little bit different with 389 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: covidan that help people, you know, uh, I think probably 390 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 1: not for most Americans. In fact, I think there needs 391 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: to be The certainty of deadlines has been I think 392 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,719 Speaker 1: very confusing. Here's the problem, though, is that a number 393 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: of tax filers are waiting for information from the i 394 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: r s, including small businesses in others who made use 395 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: of tax credits in COVID or other tax provisions, and 396 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: they're waiting for information documents from the i R s, 397 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: they are going to have trouble filing on a timely basis. 398 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: So for some, yes, I think, I just don't know 399 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: how they target those don't move the whole day, though, Congressman, 400 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about the child tax credit, 401 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: which also expired when the aforementioned Build Back Better legislation 402 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: was put on the shelf. Bloomberg is reporting today that 403 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: there could be a bipartisan effort to pass a less 404 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,959 Speaker 1: expensive version that comes with a work requirement. I know 405 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: you've been asked about this. Is that something you support? Uh? 406 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: The short answer is yes, and I think the solution 407 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: is already there. Under the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, 408 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: Republicans doubled the child tax credit and increase the refundability, 409 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: which means sent checks to those who don't have uh 410 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: that tax liability. Uh. But but it is temporary, and 411 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: so making that from which is the law of the 412 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: land today. That's so we still have a child tax 413 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: credit in place. I think making that permanent would be crucial. 414 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: Making permit also includes that work requirement, which is really 415 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: important because the child tax credit was created by Republicans 416 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: the Congress, working with President Clinton for two reasons. One, 417 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: you know, let people keep more of what they earned 418 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: to help raise their kids very goodly. But secondly, as 419 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: an incentive to reward work and help single parents return 420 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: and reconnect to a job. That's why removing the earnings 421 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: limit or what most people say a work requirements is 422 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: working against the workforce. Some estimate about one half million 423 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: Americans would exit the workforce if that town tax credit 424 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: is made permanent. Well, you know what, the critics to 425 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: this idea say that that most at risk kids are 426 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: left exposed with a work requirement. You know, why would 427 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: you penalize kids when their parents aren't aren't actually don't 428 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: have the wherewithal to go out and find a job 429 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: or look for a job. Yeah. So these are not 430 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:28,360 Speaker 1: large earnings limits and requirements at all. Uh. Secondly, what 431 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: we know, having successfully lifted millions of Americans out of poverty, 432 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: is that having a good job with growing paychecks does 433 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 1: so much more for families poor families with kids than 434 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: never ending government checks. Because when you do that, you 435 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: never break the cycle for those children, certainly not for 436 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: their parents as well, and so that work requirements, frankly 437 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: one of the surest ways UH to move and help 438 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: lift them out of poverty. I'm at a time, Congressman, 439 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: but can you see that happening in the weeks? Um? 440 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: It depends, UM. I think in the coming weeks, I'd 441 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: be surprised there's there's not much work being done up 442 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: here right now in that regard. I think there's a 443 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: focus on extending government funding, but I'd be surprised if 444 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: they're able to reach that agreement that Republicans can embrace. 445 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: Look to have you back to talk about that omnibus budget. 446 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: Hopefully we're not talking about a shutdown by the middle 447 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: of this month. Congressman Kevin Brady, Republican from Texas, ranking 448 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 1: member of the House Ways and Means Committee, his viewpoints 449 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: will put them to the panel next and we'll also 450 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: retrace what happened today in the Federal Reserve confirmation hearings 451 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 1: on sound on. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. 452 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: You sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio Headline 453 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: on the Terminal child tax credit tweaks crack open door 454 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: for bipartisan talks. Congressman Kevin Brady just told us he's 455 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: in favor of this idea, a less expan in sive 456 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: version of the tax credit that comes with a lower 457 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: eligibility threshold and a work requirement. Let's reassemble the panel 458 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: for their take. Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Chanzano and Rick 459 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: Davis are back. Rick, the Congressman seemed to think this 460 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: might take time, but but thinks it could actually happen. 461 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: Do you see it passing? Well, it certainly has the 462 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: potential if it come out of the ways and Means 463 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: committees a bipartisan bill. UH. Senators like Marco Rubio and 464 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: others who have been involved in the child tax credit 465 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: in the past have been wildly supportive would probably react 466 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: really positively to it. So sure, I mean if, if, 467 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: But you'll almost have to declare Build Back Better dead. 468 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,199 Speaker 1: The Reconciliation Bill has to go away in order to 469 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: be able to move this forward. Well, there you go, Genie, 470 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,479 Speaker 1: this would be the first component, at least from my account, 471 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: from Build Back Better to be revived. Would it be 472 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: seen as a win for President Biden or will progressives 473 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: call it a loss because of the means testing and 474 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: that Republicans voted for it. Well, I think Joe Manchin 475 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: said there's no build back better, so Joe man from 476 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: scratched or starting from Scots. I I do think Joe 477 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 1: Biden would face um a pushback from if he was 478 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,880 Speaker 1: on board with this. He would face pushback from progressives, 479 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: as would this whatever comes out of the Senate. If 480 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: this does. And there's a very good reason why the 481 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: work requirement precludes the lowest income families, the people who 482 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: need the money the most and benefit from the money 483 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: the most. There's a reason that the way it was 484 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: constructed reduced child poverty as much as it did. And 485 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: the research has been astounding across the board about the 486 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,719 Speaker 1: impact of means testing and these work requirements. So I 487 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: understand this is an area in which Republicans and Democrats 488 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: could potentially maneuver in the Senate and come to an agreement. 489 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: But I do think you're going to face book pushback, 490 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: and again I think rightly. So you know, I do 491 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: understand that it's you know, do you you want nothing or 492 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: something at all? This may be something, but let's not 493 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: forget the impact on the the poorest of the children 494 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: in the country, and and that's what we're getting up here. Well, 495 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: so that's then you just answered the question. Rick. Then 496 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: the president is dinged again by by progressives in the 497 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: US House specifically, who say that you're not we're not 498 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: even in the same party here. Your progressive values have 499 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: been compromised. Yeah, but where are the progressive successes legislatively 500 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: this year? The successes have been bipartisan successes that they 501 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: have been embraced by UH, this president and signed in 502 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 1: a law and benefited the country. So we can either 503 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: we can either lurch left and do nothing, or we 504 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,120 Speaker 1: can go back to the center and get work done 505 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill that benefits the American people. I want 506 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: to get your take both on the Federal Reserve confirmation 507 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: hearing today. We talked about it yesterday. We gave people 508 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: a bit of a preview. We discussed it with Mike 509 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: McKee and some of the some of the pushback that 510 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: Republicans were previewing against these three nominees. This is again 511 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: President Biden's three nominees to fill the seats on the 512 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: Federal Reserve Board of Governors. Indeed, as I read on 513 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: the terminal, Republicans stepped up attacks on two of them. 514 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,719 Speaker 1: I think we actually had this pretty close to right 515 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: last night during heated test to mowning Sarah bloom Raskin, 516 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: of course she's got the supervisory role, pushed to defend 517 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: pastor remarks about the role of regulation and mitigating climate risk. 518 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: And Lisa Cook, a PhD economist, first black woman nominated 519 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: to the FED, forced to defend her knowledge of monetary 520 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 1: policy and how she would respond to inflation. The ranking 521 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: member on the panel who we heard from yesterday here 522 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg, Senator Pat Toomey let Sarah bloom Raskin have 523 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: it these again, gave us a bit of a preview 524 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,239 Speaker 1: yesterday and we heard largely the same stuff. He went 525 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: after bloom raskin statements on climate change and making capital 526 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 1: available to fossil fuel companies. Are you saying you no 527 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: longer hold these views that that you've stated about allocating 528 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: capital as a result of your perception of this risk. 529 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: My views have have been consistent, Senator Um. The FED 530 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: should not pick winners and losers. They should not be 531 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: exposing taxpayers to undo risk. Well that that I'm sorry 532 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: that there is no reasonable reading of these articles and 533 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: speeches that can come to a conclusion other than that 534 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: you want to be allocating capital away from those industries 535 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: that are generating large amounts of c O two. And 536 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,959 Speaker 1: while bloom Raskin was artful and in her answers and 537 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: was smiling and was communicative pat to me, never bought it. 538 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: He moved on and went back and forth as well 539 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: with Lisa Cook, forcing her, as I mentioned, to defend 540 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: her knowledge of monetary policy. Just a taste here, how 541 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: do we get inflation under control? Thank you for that question, Senator. 542 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: I understand that every day Americans are suffering from high inflation. 543 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: This is uh something that I learned a lesson about 544 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: more recently, probably the most people I've lived in countries 545 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: and advised countries in a situation of hyper inflation. So 546 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: I am motivated by seeing the suffering of workers of 547 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: businesses and just trying to plan their every everyday lives. 548 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: All right. So there's Lisa Cook, if you've never heard 549 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: her voice before, in sparring there again, not really sparring, 550 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: but answering the questions of the ranking member Genie. Did 551 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: Republicans overstep today with their opposition? Did they do their jobs. 552 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: And how did the testimony go for these two? I 553 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: thought it was as fiery as we thought it would 554 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: be yesterday. And you know, I was a little bit 555 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: surprised on the one hand. Um, First of all, these 556 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: are two very accomplished, smart women. I was a little 557 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,719 Speaker 1: bit surprised by Dr Cook's um answer on inflation. If 558 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: there's one thing that was going to be talked about today, 559 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: it was inflation. Um. You had to be prepared for that. 560 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: And um, she I think was trying to do a 561 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: sort of artful political non answer, but I'm not sure 562 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: it was effective. Um. And you know, lest Sarah bloom 563 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: Raskin rather um she I thought handled herself well. She is, 564 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: of course trying to fend things that she said and 565 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: written about that are you know, widely not supported by 566 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,719 Speaker 1: the Republican members. Um. And I think they're both going 567 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: to have you know, it's going to be a tight 568 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: squeeze getting them through at this point. I think they 569 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: will get through. They're gonna have to wait for the 570 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: Senator from New Mexico to come back in order to 571 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: do it. Um. But but I do think that it was, 572 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: you know, a fiery, fiery engagement today and I thought 573 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: perhaps Dr Cook could have been a little more prepared 574 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: on that inflation question. Did did Lisa Cook convince you Rick? 575 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: And did Pat Toomey push it too far? You know, 576 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: I don't think Pat Toomey pushed it too far. This 577 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: is what they do. Uh, members are to test these candidates. Uh. 578 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: And I think Lisa Cook was actually deploying a well 579 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: used tactic in a confirmation hearing, which is when you 580 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,719 Speaker 1: don't want to get into policy, talk about personal experience. 581 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: That's exactly where she went, Oh, yeah, I've lived in 582 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: countries that had hyper inflation. Okay, got it. Um, you've 583 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: seen something. It doesn't mean you're going to act in 584 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: any particular way in the future about it. And that's 585 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: what you're trying to avoid, is any promises to do something. 586 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: I think with her, it's just putting her through her paces. 587 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: I think it would be really unusual and frankly bad 588 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: policy for the Republicans to oppose a qualified woman who 589 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: would make history as the first black woman on the board. 590 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: So Republicans don't try to pick off one of these nominees. No, 591 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 1: I think that it's with Raskin, it's as much giving 592 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: a signal to the FED that they got to watch 593 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: out about all this talk about getting into climate. Yeah, 594 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: she's the messenger, uh, and so she's got to take 595 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: that incoming as a result of that. But I really 596 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: wouldn't imagine that she would even be denied a seat 597 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: having been already on the board. So, um, you know, 598 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: my my guess is that this is a lot of fireworks, 599 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: high entertainment value, a lot of message sending, but still 600 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: results in these three getting selected for the Philip Jefferson 601 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: couldn't say anything wrong today, Jeannie. He seems to be 602 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: praised by both sides. He was, he was widely accepted 603 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: by both sides. He looks like you will, you know, 604 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: go right through very quickly, and you know, as it 605 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: should be. Um, you know, I do think that I 606 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: wish that there had been more time, actually because I 607 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: thought that Bloom Raskin's um comments, she is not that 608 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: far from some of what Jerome Powell has said in 609 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 1: the past about the role of the FED, and I 610 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: didn't think that came out as clearly, in part because 611 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: the time limits there. So I do think in this 612 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: country we need a concerted discussion about the role of 613 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: the FED that we're just not engaged in right now 614 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: and didn't come through today. You see them all free passing. 615 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: Is your take on this Rick? Yeah, I think all 616 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: three get through. I think that Republicans will feel good 617 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: that they've sent the Fed a message uh and uh 618 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: and and you know we we we want to hear 619 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: much more about them for some time to come, because 620 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: I think Jerome Powell will steer the Fed in the 621 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: same direction it's been headed. And of course, unless it's 622 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: dealing with inflation, it's unlikely that any Republican or Democrats 623 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 1: going to care what they think? Are you is both 624 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: worried about the jobs report tomorrow? We know it's gonna 625 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: be weaker than expected. Genie, is it going to be 626 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: a problem for this White House? Or do they get 627 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: ahead of it? I think they've done everything they can 628 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: to get ahead of it, and I keep thinking, what 629 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: if there's a surprise Joe Matthew and it's a little 630 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: bit better than they keep saying. You know, That's that 631 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: keeps in the back of my mind. Were they just 632 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,320 Speaker 1: forcing the bar down on this Rick? So it sounds 633 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: like good news? Yeah, I think Jennie's nailed it. I mean, like, 634 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: how bad can it be right better than what they 635 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: think it is. Then they look like idiots. All right, 636 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 1: we'll find out eight thirty tomorrow morning. We'll talk about 637 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: it here. Of course, great hour with Rick and Genie. 638 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, if you want to know what's going 639 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:38,839 Speaker 1: on in the world, just get an hour with Rick 640 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: and Genie. You'll figure it all out. February is Black 641 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: History Month. Every day this month we are celebrating significant 642 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: moments in US black history. And want to go to 643 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: today's installment now Feb three, here's Bloomberg's RNDA on this 644 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 1: day in Black History. In eight seventy the fifteenth Amendment 645 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: of the Constitution of the United States was ratified. This 646 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: guaranteed the right to vote regard lists of race. It 647 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: also intended to ensure, with the Fourteenth Amendment, the civil 648 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 1: rights of former slaves, but many black people would not 649 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: actually be able to practice this right to vote until 650 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixty five Voting Rights Act. It gave African 651 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: Americans a way to get around barriers at the state 652 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: and local levels that had previously prevented them from exercising 653 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,439 Speaker 1: the right to vote. That's today in Black history. I'm 654 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 1: gonna to young Bloomberg Radio and I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. 655 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: Thanks for sharing the fastest hour in politics with us again. 656 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: I'll meet you for the Friday version here on sound 657 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: On and we'll distill that job's report and see what 658 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,839 Speaker 1: it means. Of course, politically, that's our job here. We'll 659 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: check on the markets on the way. This is Bloomberg.